August 1, 2025 • 35 mins
What happens when a passionate electrician and car enthusiast discovers the untapped potential of electric vehicle infrastructure? Lee McDowell's story of transformation from overworked contractor to thriving business owner offers a blueprint for entrepreneurial success in emerging markets.
Working grueling 90-hour weeks at a construction company, McDowell had little time for his young family. When personal research into EV charging for his new Tesla revealed a significant service gap, he spotted an opportunity. Starting with installations on evenings and weekends, his side hustle matched his full-time income in just four weeks. Since leaving his job in December 2021, Car Charger Specialist has grown to 11 employees with operations across Georgia and North Carolina, on track for $3 million in revenue this year.
McDowell's business journey contains powerful lessons about partnership development, equity distribution, and cash flow management. His company leverages relationships with major automotive manufacturers while avoiding over-dependence on any single lead source. His hiring philosophy—prioritizing attitude and work ethic over experience—has built a team capable of rapid growth and expansion into new markets.
Check out SilentThunderEvents.com to learn about McDowell's upcoming racing event on August 23rd.
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Bill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bill Gilliland (00:02):
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode
of Epic Entrepreneurs.
I am super pumped.
Today.
I've got Lee McDowell with usand, yeah, I can't wait to hear
his story.
It's got to be pretty cool.
So, Lee, welcome to the podcastand tell us a little bit about
your business and your companyand yourself.
Lee McDowell (00:31):
You got it.
Thanks for having me, bill.
It's an honor.
So I'm Lee McDowell.
I'm the CEO and founder of CarCharger Specialist.
We are a electrical contractorand the home base is in Georgia,
in the Gainesville area, but wehave recently expanded up into
the North Carolina region, intothe Asheville surround,
charlotte, raleigh, we're kindof all up through in North
(00:56):
Carolina and we are a contractorthat exclusively focuses on
electric vehicle chargingstation infrastructure for
residential fleet and commercialapplications.
Bill Gilliland (01:12):
So just to clarify what's the difference
between residential andcommercial fleet installations?
Lee McDowell (01:19):
So residential, like, let's say, you go buy a
Tesla, right, yep.
So residential, like, let's say, you go buy a Tesla, right, yep
.
Evs are really great when itcomes to efficiency and
operating costs If you have acharger installed at your house,
right.
So when you buy an EV, if youhave the means, if you install a
(01:49):
um what's called a level twocharger at your house, then you
can charge your car in just afew hours.
Um, like, you just charge atnight and if you can think about
it, it's kind of like youriPhone or your, your smartphone.
You just plug it in at nightand then it works all day.
Then you don't really thinkabout it for the most part, um,
and you plug it back in at nightand then it works all day.
Then you don't really thinkabout it for the most part, and
you plug it back in at night andit works the whole day.
And that's how an electricvehicle is.
(02:11):
And some days you might havesuper busy days right when you
have to plug your phone in inthe middle of the day.
Let's say, if you're like a busyguy on the phone the whole day,
a sales guy or something, salesguy or something but in that
case you just stop at a levelthree charger which is really
designed for like commercial use.
So that's kind of thatcommercial application is those
(02:34):
level three chargers are meantfor when you're on the road
traveling, and those chargeswill charge you up in about 15,
20 minutes on average.
So we do both of those things.
So that's the residential andcommercial side.
And then there's a fleet sidewhere you might have a warehouse
with 10 delivery trucks and wewould go put some chargers in at
(02:56):
your warehouse, so when allthose trucks return home at
night, they they charge up andwe actually um, it's kind of
neat we have a fleet our of ourown evs, so we do our
installations out of rivianservice trucks.
So we have an electric fleet,um, and that kind of a cuts down
(03:18):
on operating cost and b, all ofmy technicians, whether they
have an EV or not, they have todeal with electric vehicles
every day.
So that's in a nutshell what wedo like big picture.
But the residential side ofthings.
For us is kind of it's where wemake the biggest impact,
(03:41):
because we instruct new EVowners on all the ins and outs
of EV ownership and it's reallyfun for us because they get home
with a brand new car.
They are aware that the expenseis upcoming of installing their
charger, so it's not a surpriseto them and we get in the car
with them and show them how totake a road trip to Disney World
(04:05):
if they want to.
Or for, like Tesla owners, youcan make your car, make fart
noises you know it's kind ofsilly, but it's fun to get in
there with them.
Bill Gilliland (04:17):
So yeah, that's pretty cool.
So how did you, did you startit with that in mind?
Or were you in like an, in likean electrical contracting
business, and then, or how didyou get?
How did you make the leap?
I guess?
Lee McDowell (04:31):
So I, when I was growing up, I was taught to go
to college and don't be a loserlike the construction guys.
Like, do good in school.
Yeah right, it turns out myparents were exactly right.
I did not do good in school andum went to college, didn't know
what I wanted to do and onesummer I um came home and my
(04:52):
uncle, cleat, had a uh.
He worked for a largeelectrical contractor in in
atlanta and he hired me for asummer job and it's supposed to
be temporary.
But I started doing some likeapprentice work, just as a
summer helper and I loved it.
I just had never been exposedto it.
So what I did is I went throughthe IBEW apprenticeship school
(05:18):
and even though I was a badcollege student, I was a really
good electrical student.
College student.
I was a really good electricalstudent.
So I decided that's what Iwanted to do and I wanted to get
into leadership and managementand I was with this company,
england Stubs, here in Atlanta.
They're a large unioncontractor.
I was with them for 13 yearsand when I left I was a general
(05:43):
foreman over um multimilliondollar projects so big tenant
build outs, um data centers,hospitals, stuff like that.
That was our specialty and itwas great.
Um and I was making great money.
But, as your listeners may know,there is a skilled labor
(06:04):
shortage that is very seriousand it's not just in the Atlanta
region, it's national.
It's a big issue.
So what happens to us tradesmenis we end up working very long
hours because the contract doesnot care how long you have to
work, it just has a completiondate.
(06:26):
So I was working 80, 90 hourweeks often and it wasn't really
a big deal until I had kids andum.
At the time when I was workingon those hours, I also had a
sweet torch red.
So it's a 2014 c7 corvette z51beautiful, it was an awesome car
(06:50):
.
I'm a big car guy.
I've had corvettes and mustangsmy whole life and um, but after
I had my first kid, I justdidn't drive it very much
anymore.
It was expensive, um,especially just for a toy that
sat in the garage.
So I sold it and I thought Icould get by with my little
(07:11):
Corolla that I bought and I justcouldn't handle it.
I needed the speed.
Bill Gilliland (07:18):
I needed a four-door car.
Lee McDowell (07:20):
That was fast and it left me with a Dodge Hellcat
charger.
That's what I was looking atand a buddy of mine told me
about the Tesla Model 3performance and at the time I
thought EVs were super lame, youknow, like it was just for
environmentalist type folks.
Bill Gilliland (07:37):
Right Yep.
Lee McDowell (07:39):
But I went and drove that Model 3 performance
and it absolutely blew me away,like the instant torque was
amazing.
It was very comfortable.
It would drive normal if youwanted it to, or it is zero to
60 in three seconds flat, yep,um.
So I bought it and in tesla,notoriously, um, their customer
(08:01):
service is not great.
When you go, like, pick up yourcar, they don't explain
anything to you.
I didn't know anything abouthow to charge it or anything.
So I had to do all my researchand I ended up buying my level
two charger.
I installed it and at the timeI didn't think much about it.
But I went through about at workfor about three months where I
(08:23):
was working 90 plus hour weeksand I was gone before my kids
got up each day and I was homeafter they were asleep, and that
was, I mean, that was sevendays a week for three months
straight.
And I had hair before all thatstarted, believe it or not, and
I was super stressed and I justhad this daydream one day of
(08:46):
putting those chargers in.
I already had my contractor'slicense.
I made sure to go ahead and getthat in case I wanted to do
something on my own, and thatidea popped in my head and I
told my wife about it and shebasically said well, what are
you going to do about it?
Are you going to do somethingwith it or not?
So that was all I needed.
(09:09):
So I formed up the LLC, I gotthe general liability insurance
and I just started advertisingon Angie's list to start, and I
would go install a charger onnights and weekends and I made a
deal with myself that once Iwas making enough money to match
(09:29):
my take-home pay from EnglandStubs, that I would leave and
start it full-time.
And it only took four weeks.
Wow, four weeks, yeah, yeah yeah, so yeah, that was uh.
I left that company in decemberof 21 and I worked out of the
(09:52):
back of my tesla, in the back ofour jeep wrangler for a few
months until I could buy a vanand I worked out of the van by
myself for a few more months andum hired my first guy and 22 in
April.
It was just us for about a yearand after we like figured out
(10:13):
the processes and everything, weum we really started hiring and
expanding and um, now we have11 employees.
We're on track.
We should do a little over $3million in revenue this year,
cleared just around $2 millionlast year.
We're growing at a nice pace.
(10:34):
We're expanding from theAtlanta market.
We're pretty saturated in theresidential piece of the Atlanta
market right now.
We're pretty saturated in theresidential piece of the Atlanta
market right now.
So we're expanding into likewe're working in Asheville right
now and Greenville, southCarolina, is the next target for
(10:57):
us.
Bill Gilliland (10:57):
Nice, yep, good, those are good targets.
I like it.
I like it.
Lee McDowell (11:03):
Yeah, man.
Bill Gilliland (11:05):
So let me ask you some business questions here
.
What if you had to start overfrom square one in business?
What would you do differently?
Lee McDowell (11:12):
I wouldn't be afraid to seek investment.
It's something that I wasreally uncomfortable with, and
you kind of hear horror storiesof like deals gone bad, but I
didn't consider that if somebodyis willing to invest in you, um
, they're your partner, theydon't want to see you fail,
(11:35):
right, right, and for me I'mjust we're still bootstrapped
right now, but we're we'regetting ready to to get some
stuff kind of tightened up onour back end to seek some
investment partners.
I didn't realize cash flow.
I didn't understand the waycash flow worked until I'd say,
(12:02):
really this year, when it comesto like expansion and
stair-stepping and things, yep,and having some capital
available really removes a lotof the roadblocks that cash flow
cycles put in your way.
Bill Gilliland (12:19):
Yeah, yeah, Okay , yeah.
So there's a lot of ways to getcapital, so you're considering
some outside investment at thispoint to uh to scale.
Lee McDowell (12:28):
I actually have one other thing that I'll talk
about.
Um, my first, my first hire wasa guy I'd worked with in the
past and, uh, him taking thatleap of faith to come work with
me meant the world, but I, Igifted him equity.
(12:49):
I would not do that again.
It made things very complicatedas far as accountability and
certain things as we grew Right,so I let him go a few months
back, but it was.
(13:09):
It cost me dearly.
It was very hard to do, but thecost and the stress, yeah, yeah
.
Bill Gilliland (13:19):
That's a good, yeah, that's a good lesson.
You're probably better off justpaying them well.
So, yeah, it's a good, it's agood thing.
So those are good, those aregood learnings.
What are the?
What other big learnings haveyou?
Have you had as a, as an ownerand an employer since you
started the business?
Lee McDowell (13:37):
Compensation packages are everything.
The way those things arestructured for each tier of
employee is very important.
So, for example, you know,paying us as a service business,
paying your employees hourly,makes accounting very easy, but
(14:00):
it only incentivizes employeesto be less efficient.
Um, so that's, that's one thing, so that's, that's a big lesson
.
Um, I would say, um, andthere's a lot of lessons learned
(14:20):
.
Uh, but just just keeping yourbook straight, that's super
important, all the accounting.
And then I wouldn't say it's alesson learned, but it's a
(14:41):
lesson that everybody, I thinkneeds to hear.
Nobody cares about you, man Likeno, you're by yourself, Nobody
cares.
Bill Gilliland (15:08):
No-transcript because you're right, they're
too focused on themselves tocare about what you're doing.
You know if it can help them,great If they can't do that.
So what are some commonmisconceptions about running a
business that you've, and how doyou deal with them?
Lee McDowell (15:32):
Well, when you're the founder, I think everybody
kind of assumes that you're thatyou're getting paid the most
right, it's so true, it's sotrue.
Bill Gilliland (15:42):
I remember my first business.
Everybody thought I was rich,you know.
Employees thought, well, bill'srich, he owns the business.
Lee McDowell (15:50):
I think I'm sitting in there counting the
money.
I am counting the money becauseI'm making sure we can make
payroll and pay our insuranceand invest in growth.
But it doesn't just trickleinto my pockets.
My technicians, it doesn't justtrickle into my pockets, right,
right, like my technicians makemore than me, you know, on W2.
(16:12):
So I think that's a big thing.
It wasn't hard for me.
I mean, it's hard work, but ifyou're used to working hard,
business ownership isn'timpossible.
Bill Gilliland (16:25):
I like that one, I like that one, I like that
one.
If you're used to working hard,business ownership is just hard
work.
So I love it, yeah, I love it,yeah, I love it.
So what do you attribute yourgrowth to?
Lee McDowell (16:42):
Partnerships, partnerships.
So for us I'll give a Tesla asa good case study we, on our
residential business and ourcommercial, we have about 60% of
our leads that come in directthrough Tesla, where we're
(17:06):
referred directly from Tesla andit's not a one-way street.
We we have been very successfulin getting Tesla out in front
of the culture of people, andI'll explain more on that when
we come talk about the raceevent.
Yeah, but we have um, we go totesla dealerships and educate,
(17:32):
like on when people get theircars, we go and help instruct
them on we.
We cover that, fill those gapsthat I discovered when I bought
my tesla.
We educate people on batterystorage systems, on solar, on
all that kind of stuff and um.
Bill Gilliland (17:51):
So, like, that partnership has been huge for us
and there's a lot more likethat if you're getting 60 of
your leads from a partner.
That's a that's a big yeahdefinitely diversify.
Lee McDowell (18:07):
Don't make it at 90% of your leads.
That's another lesson learned.
Last year, Elon fired the wholecharging team off of an
argument with the boss of thecharging team, so instead of
firing just that one person, heeliminated every contact that I
(18:27):
had, built relationshipsinstantly at Tesla Unbelievable.
And it hurt so bad.
Um, but it's because we had waytoo many eggs in the Tesla
basket, Right, Right.
So that's how I mean.
Luckily we, we pulled throughit, but now hey, don't do that
again.
Right, Right.
So that's how I mean.
Luckily we, we pulled throughit, but now hey, don't do that
(18:48):
again.
Right, yeah.
Bill Gilliland (18:50):
There are other, there are a lot of other EVs
out there.
So at this point and it's justgetting even more so I like it.
So, um, you do have an eventcoming up that we want to talk
about, and, since you mentionedit, let's go ahead and deal with
it now.
I got a couple other questionsfor you, but, um, yeah, tell us
about, tell us about the eventyou got going on.
Lee McDowell (19:12):
So our event's called Silent Thunder.
Um, so, to give a littlebackground, if you couldn't tell
already, I'm a huge car nut.
Um, so I've I've found a tradethat I'm good at and then a
service that's revolving aroundcars, so it's business.
Ownership is awesome for mebecause I I genuinely enjoy it
(19:35):
and I like racing cars, I liketaking cars on the racetrack and
doing road racing.
Um, autocross events, all thatgood stuff.
Autocross events, all that goodstuff.
And I had an idea last year tohost an event called Silent
Thunder, where half of the carson the track were electric and
half were gas.
I personally have both.
(19:56):
I race my Tesla and I have aMiata race car, and then I have
this kit car called a Goblin.
It's the most rowdy thingyou've ever seen in your life
and it's gas and shootsfireballs.
So I like both things and Ifind that in the culture people
have to pick a side.
Evs have become verypoliticized, so the EV people
(20:22):
hang out together and the gaspeople hang out together, but
they don't really make sense.
So last year's event was reallygood.
It was a road race, um, but itwas.
We were fortunate to have teslaand ribbing and bmw sponsor the
event but because of the styleof the race, there wasn't.
It wasn't very spectatorfriendly, so this year we
(20:42):
decided to move it to an ovaltrack.
You have actual stadium seating.
This venue sits 7,000 people.
That way, for all of oursponsors, they'll actually drive
business.
(21:03):
It's on August 23rd this year.
We have Cadillac as our titlesponsor.
We have Tesla, rivian and BMWalso as our second tier sponsors
.
We have a lot of othercompanies.
In the first two hours of theevent our spectators can come
down and get in the best newvehicles from all these brands
(21:26):
and ride along in theirautocross course.
So we have professional driverscoming to drive these
sponsor-provided vehicles.
And let's say, you want to ridein the new quad motor Rivian
R1S.
It does 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds.
It's insane.
You can get in that car andexperience what it feels like to
(21:48):
do that and the handlingcharacteristics.
And then you can go get in aCadillac CT5V Blackwing, which
is a 700 horsepower twin turboV8 Cadillac four-door and also
go through the autocross courseand experience that.
So that's kind of the idea forthe first part of the show is
(22:10):
letting people get in thesesponsored cars and actually
experiencing like ahigh-performance driving style
and it's something I don't knowof any other event that lets you
do that and the idea is to getpeople in these cars so they can
make an informed purchasedecision if they're in the
market.
Bill Gilliland (22:29):
Sweet, so when is the event?
Lee McDowell (22:32):
August 23rd.
Bill Gilliland (22:33):
August 23rd, great and it's where.
Lee McDowell (22:37):
At Caffeine and Octane.
Lanier Raceway in BrazeltonGeorgia.
Lanier Raceway in BrazeltonGeorgia.
Bill Gilliland (22:43):
Lanier Raceway, Brazelton, Georgia.
Okay, cool.
Lee McDowell (22:46):
It's from 12 to 9.
Bill Gilliland (22:48):
And if people want to come or get tickets or
however, whatever, what's the?
Is there a?
Lee McDowell (22:53):
Visit SilentThunderEventscom.
Bill Gil (22:56):
SilentThunderEventscom .
All right, we'll put that inthe show notes.
Silentthundereventscom.
All right, we'll put that inthe show notes.
Lee McDo (23:02):
SilentThunderEventscom .
We'll have Gas vs ElectricAutocross, we're going to have
professional drifters there toput on a show and do ride-alongs
and the main event is ovaltrack drag racing.
So that is where two cars lineup side by side and hammer it
and go around the circle.
It's a third-mile track.
It's a third mile track, soit's a pretty long oval.
Bill Gilliland (23:23):
Yeah.
Lee McDowell (23:24):
You go two times around the oval as fast as they
can, and the first one to goacross the finish line advances.
Bill Gilliland (23:29):
Sweet yeah.
Lee McDowell (23:31):
That sounds cool.
It's going to be really cool.
Bill Gilliland (23:33):
Yeah, it sounds cool.
So all right back to back tothat's awesome.
I think that's a cool eventthat's promoting.
I love that.
It's letting you live in theworlds you want to hang out in
electrical and cars so I lovethat as a thing.
Which brings up the nextquestion, which is in your
(23:55):
previous job, it didn't soundlike you had too much balance
between your personal life andyour business life.
How are you doing that now?
How are you balancing yourpersonal life and your business
life now?
Lee McDowell (24:07):
I do my best.
I'm always working.
Now I get up about 3.30 eachday and I have a few hours to
(24:29):
myself where I work out andnobody needs me.
But right now, especiallyleading up to this event I mean
it's Monday through Sunday we'reworking, but I do my best.
I try to get in an hour hour ortwo with the kids.
We do dinner together everynight, all that kind of stuff.
I took them to their first dayof school today Sweet.
(24:49):
But I'm definitely not spendingas much time as I'd like to
with the family.
But that's just part ofbusiness ownership.
Bill Gilliland (25:03):
Yeah, well, it can be or it can.
It depends on how you want todesign the business.
So, yeah, I mean you're workingon that piece right now.
There there are, there aretrade-offs for sure, for sure
what comes in waves.
Yeah, absolutely Sure, Ahundred percent.
So what do you look?
(25:36):
I mean, you've hired 11, well,you got 11 employees now.
Lee McDowell (25:38):
So what qualities do you look for in employees and
how do you foster a positivework environment?
So I hire, believe it or not.
Um, I don't require a ton ofexperience.
Um, particularly for ourresidential side.
Um, I can train someone to dothat job in about three months
with no experience, but I can'ttrain attitude and work ethic.
(26:01):
So what I look for when I do myfirst interview how do they
shake my hand?
Do they look at me in the eyes?
Are they smiling?
Were they there on time?
Right, were they?
Were they there early?
And I make a habit to go bytheir car and take a little peek
(26:24):
inside the car.
Peeking into somebody's car willtell you a lot about them.
So those are some metrics Ihire off of for new guys.
Yeah, I'd say that's really themain thing.
If I'm looking for experiencedguys, I'm going to have more
(26:49):
qualifying questions, thingslike that, but just in general
that's the biggest thing,because if you don't have that
good attitude, you're just notgoing to work out.
Bill Gilliland (26:59):
Yeah, hire for attitude and teach skills is a
great way to go about it.
So what do you wish you hadknown, or that somebody had told
you before you went intobusiness?
Lee McDowell (27:19):
I wish I'd done it sooner.
I wish I had done it sooner.
I think I I didn't have thedirection, but, um, I just wish,
I wish I had known that I, Icould have you know sooner.
Um, it's hard to say.
(27:42):
I mean, I, that's good.
You know, like, my dad owned.
My dad owned businessesthroughout his career and, uh,
now he works for somebody andyou know, I think when you grow
up, you look at your parents andyou think they know everything,
right and like, even thoughhe's on businesses.
(28:04):
He gave me some good pointersto start out, but, past the
initial like set up stages,you're, it's you're, you control
your destiny.
It's, it's all in the decisionsyou make.
And, um, you know, I don't, Ireally don't know if someone had
(28:26):
given me a mentorship prior tothis, you know, I don't think
we'd be where we are today.
Um, I think having the agencyto just do what you think is
right and what you want to do isimportant in business ownership
.
Bill Gilliland (28:45):
Yeah, yeah, you got to do it.
You can't, you can't, you can't.
Nobody can do your pushups foryou.
So they can give you someadvice on how to do a pushup,
but you know I always say youcan't, I always say you can't
swim.
You know you got to swim yourown laps.
Lee McDowell (29:02):
You always want someone to.
It's the thing like still today.
It's like if I encounter aproblem, you go into panic oh, I
need to get this person to dothis thing.
And like it doesn't.
It oftentimes doesn't work outthat way.
You just got to suck it up,buttercup, figure it out.
Doesn't work out that way.
You just got to suck it up,buttercup, figure it out.
I mean, you know.
I mean, I think forentrepreneurs, that's probably
(29:25):
par for the course Um,especially with AI.
Ai is a big topic.
If we have time to talk aboutum later on, I'd really like a
chance to encourage people touse these new tools that are
available right now.
(29:45):
It's been great for us.
Bill Gilliland (29:49):
Yeah, so how are you using AI?
Lee McDowell (29:53):
I've used AI to completely build websites.
I've used it in almost everyaspect of our business, from
marketing and image generationto video creation, to business
plans and direction, tostrategies on how to deal with
tough challenges.
To advise me, um, like a lawyerand an accountant, I've I've
(30:24):
I've fired two companies that I.
I have fired two companies thisyear that I used to pay
recurring monthly fees ofthousands and thousands of
dollars, and I've been able tocut them loose because I can
accomplish with AI and and lesstime than it would take me to
(30:47):
email them about my vision andwhat I want.
Bill Gilliland (30:51):
Sure.
Lee McDowell (30:52):
It's.
Bill Gilliland (30:53):
It's an incredible yeah, it's a great
time saver.
Yeah, that's how we use it too.
I use it a lot to get startedon things.
It's a it's a prettyinteresting thing.
So, um, we've got the websitefor the race.
What's the best way for peopleto get a hold of you or your
company if they're interested inwhat you have to offer?
Lee McDowell (31:14):
You can call us.
Phone number is 404-520-7349,.
Or you can reach out direct um5, 2, 0, 7, 3, 4, 9.
Or you can reach out direct umat installations, at car charger
specialistscom.
It's with the S at the end, um.
Those are the best ways you canfind us on um all the socials
to uh YouTube, instagram,facebook, um.
(31:36):
Just just look up car chargerspecialist, you'll find us there
.
Bill Gilliland (31:40):
Perfect, perfect , perfect.
So is there anything else you'dlike to tell the world, or our,
your audience?
Lee McDowell (31:50):
Yeah, it comes to AI, man, our economy is about to
go through a crazy, a crazychange.
Um, if, if you have a job thatrequires sitting in front of the
computer all day, you betterget with it.
Um, these tools are just,they're advancing so quickly.
Um, I don't know how.
(32:11):
I'm not, I'm not really surehow we're gonna, um, as as an
economy, function through thisparadigm shift, but I think next
year, in 2026, 27, we're goingto see a ton of layoffs and
we're going to have to getcreative as a society on how to
(32:32):
combat these things.
So, not to be it's not adoomsday, but no, it's not.
Start figuring out how to workwith the tools and not.
It's coming, whether you likeit or not.
Bill Gilliland (32:47):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah, it's just like everygreat technological change that
we've seen.
It's just happening faster inthis generation than it did in
the past generations, but it'shappened over and over and over
again.
These things are not new andwe'll be fine.
We'll be fine.
Hey look, this has been great.
(33:09):
This has been a crazy goodinterview.
I appreciate it.
I look forward to talking more.
Lee McDowell (33:17):
Got it.
Thanks, Bill.
Bill Gilliland (33:18):
Pleasure.
Thank you, hey, and until nexttime.
All the best, you got it, man.
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode
of Epic Entrepreneurs.
I am super pumped.
Today.
I've got Lee McDowell with usand, yeah, I can't wait to hear
his story.
It's got to be pretty cool.
So, Lee, welcome to the podcastand tell us a little bit about
your business and your companyand yourself.
Lee McDowell (00:31):
You got it.
Thanks for having me, bill.
It's an honor.
So I'm Lee McDowell.
I'm the CEO and founder of CarCharger Specialist.
We are a electrical contractorand the home base is in Georgia,
in the Gainesville area, but wehave recently expanded up into
the North Carolina region, intothe Asheville surround,
charlotte, raleigh, we're kindof all up through in North
(00:56):
Carolina and we are a contractorthat exclusively focuses on
electric vehicle chargingstation infrastructure for
residential fleet and commercialapplications.
Bill Gilliland (01:12):
So just to clarify what's the difference
between residential andcommercial fleet installations?
Lee McDowell (01:19):
So residential, like, let's say, you go buy a
Tesla, right, yep.
So residential, like, let's say, you go buy a Tesla, right, yep
.
Evs are really great when itcomes to efficiency and
operating costs If you have acharger installed at your house,
right.
So when you buy an EV, if youhave the means, if you install a
(01:49):
um what's called a level twocharger at your house, then you
can charge your car in just afew hours.
Um, like, you just charge atnight and if you can think about
it, it's kind of like youriPhone or your, your smartphone.
You just plug it in at nightand then it works all day.
Then you don't really thinkabout it for the most part, um,
and you plug it back in at nightand then it works all day.
Then you don't really thinkabout it for the most part, and
you plug it back in at night andit works the whole day.
And that's how an electricvehicle is.
(02:11):
And some days you might havesuper busy days right when you
have to plug your phone in inthe middle of the day.
Let's say, if you're like a busyguy on the phone the whole day,
a sales guy or something, salesguy or something but in that
case you just stop at a levelthree charger which is really
designed for like commercial use.
So that's kind of thatcommercial application is those
(02:34):
level three chargers are meantfor when you're on the road
traveling, and those chargeswill charge you up in about 15,
20 minutes on average.
So we do both of those things.
So that's the residential andcommercial side.
And then there's a fleet sidewhere you might have a warehouse
with 10 delivery trucks and wewould go put some chargers in at
(02:56):
your warehouse, so when allthose trucks return home at
night, they they charge up andwe actually um, it's kind of
neat we have a fleet our of ourown evs, so we do our
installations out of rivianservice trucks.
So we have an electric fleet,um, and that kind of a cuts down
(03:18):
on operating cost and b, all ofmy technicians, whether they
have an EV or not, they have todeal with electric vehicles
every day.
So that's in a nutshell what wedo like big picture.
But the residential side ofthings.
For us is kind of it's where wemake the biggest impact,
(03:41):
because we instruct new EVowners on all the ins and outs
of EV ownership and it's reallyfun for us because they get home
with a brand new car.
They are aware that the expenseis upcoming of installing their
charger, so it's not a surpriseto them and we get in the car
with them and show them how totake a road trip to Disney World
(04:05):
if they want to.
Or for, like Tesla owners, youcan make your car, make fart
noises you know it's kind ofsilly, but it's fun to get in
there with them.
Bill Gilliland (04:17):
So yeah, that's pretty cool.
So how did you, did you startit with that in mind?
Or were you in like an, in likean electrical contracting
business, and then, or how didyou get?
How did you make the leap?
I guess?
Lee McDowell (04:31):
So I, when I was growing up, I was taught to go
to college and don't be a loserlike the construction guys.
Like, do good in school.
Yeah right, it turns out myparents were exactly right.
I did not do good in school andum went to college, didn't know
what I wanted to do and onesummer I um came home and my
(04:52):
uncle, cleat, had a uh.
He worked for a largeelectrical contractor in in
atlanta and he hired me for asummer job and it's supposed to
be temporary.
But I started doing some likeapprentice work, just as a
summer helper and I loved it.
I just had never been exposedto it.
So what I did is I went throughthe IBEW apprenticeship school
(05:18):
and even though I was a badcollege student, I was a really
good electrical student.
College student.
I was a really good electricalstudent.
So I decided that's what Iwanted to do and I wanted to get
into leadership and managementand I was with this company,
england Stubs, here in Atlanta.
They're a large unioncontractor.
I was with them for 13 yearsand when I left I was a general
(05:43):
foreman over um multimilliondollar projects so big tenant
build outs, um data centers,hospitals, stuff like that.
That was our specialty and itwas great.
Um and I was making great money.
But, as your listeners may know,there is a skilled labor
(06:04):
shortage that is very seriousand it's not just in the Atlanta
region, it's national.
It's a big issue.
So what happens to us tradesmenis we end up working very long
hours because the contract doesnot care how long you have to
work, it just has a completiondate.
(06:26):
So I was working 80, 90 hourweeks often and it wasn't really
a big deal until I had kids andum.
At the time when I was workingon those hours, I also had a
sweet torch red.
So it's a 2014 c7 corvette z51beautiful, it was an awesome car
(06:50):
.
I'm a big car guy.
I've had corvettes and mustangsmy whole life and um, but after
I had my first kid, I justdidn't drive it very much
anymore.
It was expensive, um,especially just for a toy that
sat in the garage.
So I sold it and I thought Icould get by with my little
(07:11):
Corolla that I bought and I justcouldn't handle it.
I needed the speed.
Bill Gilliland (07:18):
I needed a four-door car.
Lee McDowell (07:20):
That was fast and it left me with a Dodge Hellcat
charger.
That's what I was looking atand a buddy of mine told me
about the Tesla Model 3performance and at the time I
thought EVs were super lame, youknow, like it was just for
environmentalist type folks.
Bill Gilliland (07:37):
Right Yep.
Lee McDowell (07:39):
But I went and drove that Model 3 performance
and it absolutely blew me away,like the instant torque was
amazing.
It was very comfortable.
It would drive normal if youwanted it to, or it is zero to
60 in three seconds flat, yep,um.
So I bought it and in tesla,notoriously, um, their customer
(08:01):
service is not great.
When you go, like, pick up yourcar, they don't explain
anything to you.
I didn't know anything abouthow to charge it or anything.
So I had to do all my researchand I ended up buying my level
two charger.
I installed it and at the timeI didn't think much about it.
But I went through about at workfor about three months where I
(08:23):
was working 90 plus hour weeksand I was gone before my kids
got up each day and I was homeafter they were asleep, and that
was, I mean, that was sevendays a week for three months
straight.
And I had hair before all thatstarted, believe it or not, and
I was super stressed and I justhad this daydream one day of
(08:46):
putting those chargers in.
I already had my contractor'slicense.
I made sure to go ahead and getthat in case I wanted to do
something on my own, and thatidea popped in my head and I
told my wife about it and shebasically said well, what are
you going to do about it?
Are you going to do somethingwith it or not?
So that was all I needed.
(09:09):
So I formed up the LLC, I gotthe general liability insurance
and I just started advertisingon Angie's list to start, and I
would go install a charger onnights and weekends and I made a
deal with myself that once Iwas making enough money to match
(09:29):
my take-home pay from EnglandStubs, that I would leave and
start it full-time.
And it only took four weeks.
Wow, four weeks, yeah, yeah yeah, so yeah, that was uh.
I left that company in decemberof 21 and I worked out of the
(09:52):
back of my tesla, in the back ofour jeep wrangler for a few
months until I could buy a vanand I worked out of the van by
myself for a few more months andum hired my first guy and 22 in
April.
It was just us for about a yearand after we like figured out
(10:13):
the processes and everything, weum we really started hiring and
expanding and um, now we have11 employees.
We're on track.
We should do a little over $3million in revenue this year,
cleared just around $2 millionlast year.
We're growing at a nice pace.
(10:34):
We're expanding from theAtlanta market.
We're pretty saturated in theresidential piece of the Atlanta
market right now.
We're pretty saturated in theresidential piece of the Atlanta
market right now.
So we're expanding into likewe're working in Asheville right
now and Greenville, southCarolina, is the next target for
(10:57):
us.
Bill Gilliland (10:57):
Nice, yep, good, those are good targets.
I like it.
I like it.
Lee McDowell (11:03):
Yeah, man.
Bill Gilliland (11:05):
So let me ask you some business questions here
.
What if you had to start overfrom square one in business?
What would you do differently?
Lee McDowell (11:12):
I wouldn't be afraid to seek investment.
It's something that I wasreally uncomfortable with, and
you kind of hear horror storiesof like deals gone bad, but I
didn't consider that if somebodyis willing to invest in you, um
, they're your partner, theydon't want to see you fail,
(11:35):
right, right, and for me I'mjust we're still bootstrapped
right now, but we're we'regetting ready to to get some
stuff kind of tightened up onour back end to seek some
investment partners.
I didn't realize cash flow.
I didn't understand the waycash flow worked until I'd say,
(12:02):
really this year, when it comesto like expansion and
stair-stepping and things, yep,and having some capital
available really removes a lotof the roadblocks that cash flow
cycles put in your way.
Bill Gilliland (12:19):
Yeah, yeah, Okay , yeah.
So there's a lot of ways to getcapital, so you're considering
some outside investment at thispoint to uh to scale.
Lee McDowell (12:28):
I actually have one other thing that I'll talk
about.
Um, my first, my first hire wasa guy I'd worked with in the
past and, uh, him taking thatleap of faith to come work with
me meant the world, but I, Igifted him equity.
(12:49):
I would not do that again.
It made things very complicatedas far as accountability and
certain things as we grew Right,so I let him go a few months
back, but it was.
(13:09):
It cost me dearly.
It was very hard to do, but thecost and the stress, yeah, yeah
.
Bill Gilliland (13:19):
That's a good, yeah, that's a good lesson.
You're probably better off justpaying them well.
So, yeah, it's a good, it's agood thing.
So those are good, those aregood learnings.
What are the?
What other big learnings haveyou?
Have you had as a, as an ownerand an employer since you
started the business?
Lee McDowell (13:37):
Compensation packages are everything.
The way those things arestructured for each tier of
employee is very important.
So, for example, you know,paying us as a service business,
paying your employees hourly,makes accounting very easy, but
(14:00):
it only incentivizes employeesto be less efficient.
Um, so that's, that's one thing, so that's, that's a big lesson
.
Um, I would say, um, andthere's a lot of lessons learned
(14:20):
.
Uh, but just just keeping yourbook straight, that's super
important, all the accounting.
And then I wouldn't say it's alesson learned, but it's a
(14:41):
lesson that everybody, I thinkneeds to hear.
Nobody cares about you, man Likeno, you're by yourself, Nobody
cares.
Bill Gilliland (15:08):
No-transcript because you're right, they're
too focused on themselves tocare about what you're doing.
You know if it can help them,great If they can't do that.
So what are some commonmisconceptions about running a
business that you've, and how doyou deal with them?
Lee McDowell (15:32):
Well, when you're the founder, I think everybody
kind of assumes that you're thatyou're getting paid the most
right, it's so true, it's sotrue.
Bill Gilliland (15:42):
I remember my first business.
Everybody thought I was rich,you know.
Employees thought, well, bill'srich, he owns the business.
Lee McDowell (15:50):
I think I'm sitting in there counting the
money.
I am counting the money becauseI'm making sure we can make
payroll and pay our insuranceand invest in growth.
But it doesn't just trickleinto my pockets.
My technicians, it doesn't justtrickle into my pockets, right,
right, like my technicians makemore than me, you know, on W2.
(16:12):
So I think that's a big thing.
It wasn't hard for me.
I mean, it's hard work, but ifyou're used to working hard,
business ownership isn'timpossible.
Bill Gilliland (16:25):
I like that one, I like that one, I like that
one.
If you're used to working hard,business ownership is just hard
work.
So I love it, yeah, I love it,yeah, I love it.
So what do you attribute yourgrowth to?
Lee McDowell (16:42):
Partnerships, partnerships.
So for us I'll give a Tesla asa good case study we, on our
residential business and ourcommercial, we have about 60% of
our leads that come in directthrough Tesla, where we're
(17:06):
referred directly from Tesla andit's not a one-way street.
We we have been very successfulin getting Tesla out in front
of the culture of people, andI'll explain more on that when
we come talk about the raceevent.
Yeah, but we have um, we go totesla dealerships and educate,
(17:32):
like on when people get theircars, we go and help instruct
them on we.
We cover that, fill those gapsthat I discovered when I bought
my tesla.
We educate people on batterystorage systems, on solar, on
all that kind of stuff and um.
Bill Gilliland (17:51):
So, like, that partnership has been huge for us
and there's a lot more likethat if you're getting 60 of
your leads from a partner.
That's a that's a big yeahdefinitely diversify.
Lee McDowell (18:07):
Don't make it at 90% of your leads.
That's another lesson learned.
Last year, Elon fired the wholecharging team off of an
argument with the boss of thecharging team, so instead of
firing just that one person, heeliminated every contact that I
(18:27):
had, built relationshipsinstantly at Tesla Unbelievable.
And it hurt so bad.
Um, but it's because we had waytoo many eggs in the Tesla
basket, Right, Right.
So that's how I mean.
Luckily we, we pulled throughit, but now hey, don't do that
again.
Right, Right.
So that's how I mean.
Luckily we, we pulled throughit, but now hey, don't do that
(18:48):
again.
Right, yeah.
Bill Gilliland (18:50):
There are other, there are a lot of other EVs
out there.
So at this point and it's justgetting even more so I like it.
So, um, you do have an eventcoming up that we want to talk
about, and, since you mentionedit, let's go ahead and deal with
it now.
I got a couple other questionsfor you, but, um, yeah, tell us
about, tell us about the eventyou got going on.
Lee McDowell (19:12):
So our event's called Silent Thunder.
Um, so, to give a littlebackground, if you couldn't tell
already, I'm a huge car nut.
Um, so I've I've found a tradethat I'm good at and then a
service that's revolving aroundcars, so it's business.
Ownership is awesome for mebecause I I genuinely enjoy it
(19:35):
and I like racing cars, I liketaking cars on the racetrack and
doing road racing.
Um, autocross events, all thatgood stuff.
Autocross events, all that goodstuff.
And I had an idea last year tohost an event called Silent
Thunder, where half of the carson the track were electric and
half were gas.
I personally have both.
(19:56):
I race my Tesla and I have aMiata race car, and then I have
this kit car called a Goblin.
It's the most rowdy thingyou've ever seen in your life
and it's gas and shootsfireballs.
So I like both things and Ifind that in the culture people
have to pick a side.
Evs have become verypoliticized, so the EV people
(20:22):
hang out together and the gaspeople hang out together, but
they don't really make sense.
So last year's event was reallygood.
It was a road race, um, but itwas.
We were fortunate to have teslaand ribbing and bmw sponsor the
event but because of the styleof the race, there wasn't.
It wasn't very spectatorfriendly, so this year we
(20:42):
decided to move it to an ovaltrack.
You have actual stadium seating.
This venue sits 7,000 people.
That way, for all of oursponsors, they'll actually drive
business.
(21:03):
It's on August 23rd this year.
We have Cadillac as our titlesponsor.
We have Tesla, rivian and BMWalso as our second tier sponsors
.
We have a lot of othercompanies.
In the first two hours of theevent our spectators can come
down and get in the best newvehicles from all these brands
(21:26):
and ride along in theirautocross course.
So we have professional driverscoming to drive these
sponsor-provided vehicles.
And let's say, you want to ridein the new quad motor Rivian
R1S.
It does 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds.
It's insane.
You can get in that car andexperience what it feels like to
(21:48):
do that and the handlingcharacteristics.
And then you can go get in aCadillac CT5V Blackwing, which
is a 700 horsepower twin turboV8 Cadillac four-door and also
go through the autocross courseand experience that.
So that's kind of the idea forthe first part of the show is
(22:10):
letting people get in thesesponsored cars and actually
experiencing like ahigh-performance driving style
and it's something I don't knowof any other event that lets you
do that and the idea is to getpeople in these cars so they can
make an informed purchasedecision if they're in the
market.
Bill Gilliland (22:29):
Sweet, so when is the event?
Lee McDowell (22:32):
August 23rd.
Bill Gilliland (22:33):
August 23rd, great and it's where.
Lee McDowell (22:37):
At Caffeine and Octane.
Lanier Raceway in BrazeltonGeorgia.
Lanier Raceway in BrazeltonGeorgia.
Bill Gilliland (22:43):
Lanier Raceway, Brazelton, Georgia.
Okay, cool.
Lee McDowell (22:46):
It's from 12 to 9.
Bill Gilliland (22:48):
And if people want to come or get tickets or
however, whatever, what's the?
Is there a?
Lee McDowell (22:53):
Visit SilentThunderEventscom.
Bill Gil (22:56):
SilentThunderEventscom .
All right, we'll put that inthe show notes.
Silentthundereventscom.
All right, we'll put that inthe show notes.
Lee McDo (23:02):
SilentThunderEventscom .
We'll have Gas vs ElectricAutocross, we're going to have
professional drifters there toput on a show and do ride-alongs
and the main event is ovaltrack drag racing.
So that is where two cars lineup side by side and hammer it
and go around the circle.
It's a third-mile track.
It's a third mile track, soit's a pretty long oval.
Bill Gilliland (23:23):
Yeah.
Lee McDowell (23:24):
You go two times around the oval as fast as they
can, and the first one to goacross the finish line advances.
Bill Gilliland (23:29):
Sweet yeah.
Lee McDowell (23:31):
That sounds cool.
It's going to be really cool.
Bill Gilliland (23:33):
Yeah, it sounds cool.
So all right back to back tothat's awesome.
I think that's a cool eventthat's promoting.
I love that.
It's letting you live in theworlds you want to hang out in
electrical and cars so I lovethat as a thing.
Which brings up the nextquestion, which is in your
(23:55):
previous job, it didn't soundlike you had too much balance
between your personal life andyour business life.
How are you doing that now?
How are you balancing yourpersonal life and your business
life now?
Lee McDowell (24:07):
I do my best.
I'm always working.
Now I get up about 3.30 eachday and I have a few hours to
(24:29):
myself where I work out andnobody needs me.
But right now, especiallyleading up to this event I mean
it's Monday through Sunday we'reworking, but I do my best.
I try to get in an hour hour ortwo with the kids.
We do dinner together everynight, all that kind of stuff.
I took them to their first dayof school today Sweet.
(24:49):
But I'm definitely not spendingas much time as I'd like to
with the family.
But that's just part ofbusiness ownership.
Bill Gilliland (25:03):
Yeah, well, it can be or it can.
It depends on how you want todesign the business.
So, yeah, I mean you're workingon that piece right now.
There there are, there aretrade-offs for sure, for sure
what comes in waves.
Yeah, absolutely Sure, Ahundred percent.
So what do you look?
(25:36):
I mean, you've hired 11, well,you got 11 employees now.
Lee McDowell (25:38):
So what qualities do you look for in employees and
how do you foster a positivework environment?
So I hire, believe it or not.
Um, I don't require a ton ofexperience.
Um, particularly for ourresidential side.
Um, I can train someone to dothat job in about three months
with no experience, but I can'ttrain attitude and work ethic.
(26:01):
So what I look for when I do myfirst interview how do they
shake my hand?
Do they look at me in the eyes?
Are they smiling?
Were they there on time?
Right, were they?
Were they there early?
And I make a habit to go bytheir car and take a little peek
(26:24):
inside the car.
Peeking into somebody's car willtell you a lot about them.
So those are some metrics Ihire off of for new guys.
Yeah, I'd say that's really themain thing.
If I'm looking for experiencedguys, I'm going to have more
(26:49):
qualifying questions, thingslike that, but just in general
that's the biggest thing,because if you don't have that
good attitude, you're just notgoing to work out.
Bill Gilliland (26:59):
Yeah, hire for attitude and teach skills is a
great way to go about it.
So what do you wish you hadknown, or that somebody had told
you before you went intobusiness?
Lee McDowell (27:19):
I wish I'd done it sooner.
I wish I had done it sooner.
I think I I didn't have thedirection, but, um, I just wish,
I wish I had known that I, Icould have you know sooner.
Um, it's hard to say.
(27:42):
I mean, I, that's good.
You know, like, my dad owned.
My dad owned businessesthroughout his career and, uh,
now he works for somebody andyou know, I think when you grow
up, you look at your parents andyou think they know everything,
right and like, even thoughhe's on businesses.
(28:04):
He gave me some good pointersto start out, but, past the
initial like set up stages,you're, it's you're, you control
your destiny.
It's, it's all in the decisionsyou make.
And, um, you know, I don't, Ireally don't know if someone had
(28:26):
given me a mentorship prior tothis, you know, I don't think
we'd be where we are today.
Um, I think having the agencyto just do what you think is
right and what you want to do isimportant in business ownership
.
Bill Gilliland (28:45):
Yeah, yeah, you got to do it.
You can't, you can't, you can't.
Nobody can do your pushups foryou.
So they can give you someadvice on how to do a pushup,
but you know I always say youcan't, I always say you can't
swim.
You know you got to swim yourown laps.
Lee McDowell (29:02):
You always want someone to.
It's the thing like still today.
It's like if I encounter aproblem, you go into panic oh, I
need to get this person to dothis thing.
And like it doesn't.
It oftentimes doesn't work outthat way.
You just got to suck it up,buttercup, figure it out.
Doesn't work out that way.
You just got to suck it up,buttercup, figure it out.
I mean, you know.
I mean, I think forentrepreneurs, that's probably
(29:25):
par for the course Um,especially with AI.
Ai is a big topic.
If we have time to talk aboutum later on, I'd really like a
chance to encourage people touse these new tools that are
available right now.
(29:45):
It's been great for us.
Bill Gilliland (29:49):
Yeah, so how are you using AI?
Lee McDowell (29:53):
I've used AI to completely build websites.
I've used it in almost everyaspect of our business, from
marketing and image generationto video creation, to business
plans and direction, tostrategies on how to deal with
tough challenges.
To advise me, um, like a lawyerand an accountant, I've I've
(30:24):
I've fired two companies that I.
I have fired two companies thisyear that I used to pay
recurring monthly fees ofthousands and thousands of
dollars, and I've been able tocut them loose because I can
accomplish with AI and and lesstime than it would take me to
(30:47):
email them about my vision andwhat I want.
Bill Gilliland (30:51):
Sure.
Lee McDowell (30:52):
It's.
Bill Gilliland (30:53):
It's an incredible yeah, it's a great
time saver.
Yeah, that's how we use it too.
I use it a lot to get startedon things.
It's a it's a prettyinteresting thing.
So, um, we've got the websitefor the race.
What's the best way for peopleto get a hold of you or your
company if they're interested inwhat you have to offer?
Lee McDowell (31:14):
You can call us.
Phone number is 404-520-7349,.
Or you can reach out direct um5, 2, 0, 7, 3, 4, 9.
Or you can reach out direct umat installations, at car charger
specialistscom.
It's with the S at the end, um.
Those are the best ways you canfind us on um all the socials
to uh YouTube, instagram,facebook, um.
(31:36):
Just just look up car chargerspecialist, you'll find us there
.
Bill Gilliland (31:40):
Perfect, perfect , perfect.
So is there anything else you'dlike to tell the world, or our,
your audience?
Lee McDowell (31:50):
Yeah, it comes to AI, man, our economy is about to
go through a crazy, a crazychange.
Um, if, if you have a job thatrequires sitting in front of the
computer all day, you betterget with it.
Um, these tools are just,they're advancing so quickly.
Um, I don't know how.
(32:11):
I'm not, I'm not really surehow we're gonna, um, as as an
economy, function through thisparadigm shift, but I think next
year, in 2026, 27, we're goingto see a ton of layoffs and
we're going to have to getcreative as a society on how to
(32:32):
combat these things.
So, not to be it's not adoomsday, but no, it's not.
Start figuring out how to workwith the tools and not.
It's coming, whether you likeit or not.
Bill Gilliland (32:47):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah, it's just like everygreat technological change that
we've seen.
It's just happening faster inthis generation than it did in
the past generations, but it'shappened over and over and over
again.
These things are not new andwe'll be fine.
We'll be fine.
Hey look, this has been great.
(33:09):
This has been a crazy goodinterview.
I appreciate it.
I look forward to talking more.
Lee McDowell (33:17):
Got it.
Thanks, Bill.
Bill Gilliland (33:18):
Pleasure.
Thank you, hey, and until nexttime.
All the best, you got it, man.
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