February 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Discover the inspiring journey of Ben Colvin, co-owner of Devil's Foot, as he shares how dissatisfaction with overly sweet cocktails led to the birth of a craft ginger beer brand that champions quality non-alcoholic options. From the humble beginnings of homebrewing in a garage to distributing over a million cans annually, Ben opens up about the transition from his conservation nonprofit work to entrepreneurship. This episode promises insights into the early days of Devil's Foot and the lessons learned while scaling the venture across multiple states, offering a refreshing look at the path from nonprofit to a successful business.
After 15 years of conservation nonprofit work experience, Ben launched Devil's Foot Beverage Company using that environmental-focus mission lens. Through a vision of "Farm-to-Can" practices and goals of the Full Fruit Life concept and community engagement, Devil's Foot continues to innovate and lead in the field by brewing crafted sodas that are truly unique and focus on sustainable products and company impacts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bill Gilliland (00:02):
Hey there, everybody.
Welcome to this week's episodeof Epic Entrepreneurs, and I'm
talking to my friend Ben Colvinhere today, one of the owners at
Devil's Foot.
Hi, ben, hi yeah.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you got into Devil's Foot in
the first place.
Ben Colvin (00:22):
All right, that's a good long story but to cut it
short, uh, a good handful of us,uh, friendship had, uh, we've
us, 2015 ish have been, uh, youknow, going out and enjoying
asheville and um, and all of ourfriendships and and we're
having some bad cocktails atcertain places and just going.
Why are they putting this, youknow, really watery ice, but
(00:43):
then putting buffalo trace on itand a and a you know syrupy,
sugary thing in there.
We were like this gotta besomething better.
So, being in nashville and, uh,you live here long enough, you
know how to brew.
So we uh, so took my homebrewequipment and turned it into a
non-alcoholic homebrew facility,uh, in my house, and we're just
trying to make some kind ofspicier, less sugary.
(01:05):
Uh, you know, cocktail mixedginger beer and, uh and uh,
before too long, we were likeyou know, this stuff's pretty
good.
We could probably make a lot ofthis stuff.
We could bottle it, dosomething, um, and that was one
of those days.
We had our counter full ofginger root um, at my house just
running it through foodprocessors and stuff, and my
wife was was like y'all got toget this damn devil's foot out
(01:26):
of here.
We were like what the hell is adevil's foot?
And she said, I don't know,it's all those ginger roots, all
this gnarly ginger root thatlives down in the ground, kind
of like hooves of the devil'sfoot.
And we were like that's prettycool.
That was a cool thing she cameup with.
(01:49):
But then, soon after that, mywife and I found out we were
having our first child and wetook everyone down to Burial
Beer to celebrate and by thetime we got there realized there
was nothing but water on tap.
You know, this is circa 2015,2016.
So that was the norm and we alllooked at each other like this
is a huge, you know, gap inneeds here.
There's a lot of opportunityhere to do something cool.
And so Jacob and I, um, madethe decision we could try to
work our way out of our currentjobs.
So, after 16 years ofconservation, nonprofit work, I
(02:11):
uh, you know, started working myway out and finding equipment
that was, uh, the brewerieslocally were kind of outgrowing
and investing in some of our ownstuff, and um started making
ginger beer in a in a 2,500square foot mechanics garage old
mechanics garage.
That first year, jacob and I putout in 2018, we put out our
(02:32):
first cans.
That first year.
We put out something like150,000 cans on a really small
one can at a time canningmachine.
But it allowed us theflexibility to brew during the
day and then get home, put mykid to bed and get back in at
nine o'clock at night, put onepisodes of seinfeld, just can
all night.
I wanted to do um, but yeah,maybe fast forward.
(02:54):
Now we're sitting in a 15 000square foot facility putting out
, you know, 1.2 somethingmillion cans a year.
Um, our venue and space aregrowing, our staff are are
growing and happy and stickingaround and we are now
distributed across five statesNorth Carolina, south Carolina,
tennessee, alabama, virginia.
(03:15):
We're about to go into threenew states coming up really soon
.
Bill Gilliland (03:19):
Nice.
So I want to talk a little bitabout the transition from jobs
to the business.
Did you just pull the plug oneday, or how did that go?
Ben Colvin (03:35):
So there's definitely some some translation
between and I think when you'rewhen you're young and you're in
the middle of it, a nonprofitfeels completely different.
But the higher up you kind ofbecome the administration, you
realize non-profits, businessand you got to run it like a
business and um, uh, so my lastjob, my last job in that field,
was executive director wildforest and fauna, where I could
(03:57):
work you know, this is the rightone google, uh, chat and zoom
or a thing.
So I was working out ofasheville with a staffer in
Uganda and one in Peru and myboard was on Seattle and New
York.
So there's a lot ofcoordination to be done.
But yeah, as you're in thenonprofit world, you're talking
about the same thing.
You're raising revenue, whetheryou call it, you know
(04:18):
foundation grants or donationsor whatever you.
You know it's bottom linerevenue, and then you got your
expenses.
But but eventually we werestarting to look into this and
it felt like a much biggerundertaking, kind of coming up
out of nowhere.
So uh had some friends that hadgone through mountain biz works
, uh, training and courses withthem.
So I had some old workbooks andthings to kind of run through
and really dug into it.
(04:39):
And I mean, fortunately, wewere at that place where we
started transitioning out of ourjobs, so we had some time and
instead of just sitting aroundat the coffee shop doing nothing
, we were digging into books andtrying to build out business
plans.
And I think a lot of people saythat early business plans in
particular are worthless kind ofthing.
And you can look back on it andbe like, yeah, we didn't follow
(05:01):
that, we ended up going nowherenear that, but without doing it
, without putting it to practiceand doing that kind of thing,
you're not, you know, you'rejust shooting in the wind.
So we ended up having you knowhowever many iterations of a
business plan Um and that wasbefore you were.
Bill Gilliland (05:15):
Is that before?
Were you already canning atthat point, or was that before
you?
So you're still working.
Ben Colvin (05:20):
Yep, we're still working on it.
I mean, honestly, I was workingout of my job and we were
trying to find.
We scrapped together the barebones of investment we could all
put in together ourselves justto get some tanks.
You know, catawba Brewing inparticular.
They were growing really fastat the time, so a lot of their
outgrowing tanks we were able tokind of purchase pretty cheap
from them and buildrelationships with all these
breweries that kind of thing.
(05:40):
So it allowed us some timewhile you know, we weren't full
steam ahead brewing canningnonstop.
It gave us the time to sit downand kind of get our foundation
under us and kind of work on aplan.
Bill Gilliland (05:50):
Yeah, got it.
Yeah, yeah, and I love what yousaid.
Yeah, of course the planchanges, but you got to do the
thinking ahead of time.
So if you hadn't have done theplan, you probably never would
have pulled the trigger.
And you pull the trigger andthen you pull the trigger and
then you adjust the plan.
I mean it's, you know whetheryou follow it.
I mean it.
You know plans never work outexactly right.
So, yeah, that's, yeah, that'spretty cool.
(06:10):
Yeah, so what's your?
Give us some of your businessphilosophies now.
Ben Colvin (06:18):
I, um, I I kind of came at this, of course in the
nonprofit world.
So I think, um, uh, early on Ihad some people kind of came at
this, of course in the nonprofitworld.
So I think early on I had somepeople kind of knocking us,
being like it seems sort ofnaive, that kind of thing.
But one of the last things Idid in the nonprofit field, I
went out and did and took partin this.
I think it's like three years.
(06:39):
Every three years thisconference gets put on.
It's an invitation fromconservation groups by Patagonia
.
They put it on in Lake Tahoe.
There's only like 300 peoplethere and they're all organizers
and conservation professionals,that kind of stuff.
And you're working really tightwith a lot of the people that
Patagonia works with it'slegislators, it's grant writers,
it's lobbyists.
(07:01):
How do you really get thingsdone?
And being in that context Ijust learned a lot.
That company has done somethingpretty special.
I think they've put a lot oftheir ethic above their bottom
line at times and over time yourealize it's grown their bottom
line like crazy.
(07:22):
So particularly, I was sittingone time and Yvonne Chouinard
was in the room this time givinga talk to this whole group, and
this really long.
You know, dreadlocked guy frombuffalo field campaign raised
his hand and said what do yougot to say about?
I could never afford yourproducts, uh, if I wasn't doing
this and getting some kind ofdiscount, because I'm a campaign
staffer, you know.
And his answer was, hey, man,like I can make everything
cheaper if I want to, but then Icouldn't support the american
(07:44):
farmer and I couldn't supportorganic cotton growers and I
couldn't support, you know, fairwages and I couldn't support
vacations for my, my staff, andlike, if we're going to do the
right things by the right people, we've got to, we've got to do
it right.
So maybe I understand that youcouldn't afford it a fleece
jacket or something at thatpoint.
Uh, but that family of fourthat's going skiing, that
(08:06):
outfitted themselves completelyin in this organic cotton gear
or whatever, um, it's helping meto fund your campaign, it's
helping me to do good in theworld.
And and that guy, really I thinkhe got it.
He, you know he came at it kindof um, critically, but I think
he sat back and thought you knowwhat he's he's telling me?
He's, he, he's having to make apremium product.
(08:26):
He's having to make it cost alot.
That's sometimes out ofsomeone's reach, but the point
is that he wants to be able toturn it back and give good.
He doesn't want to just sitthere and make profit for the
sake of ships.
He wanted to build a companythat was built on some values.
(08:48):
So that's what we built off ofat Double Split.
We built it.
Our original mission visionvalues were built in the way a
nonprofit kind of would that wewanted to have a foundation
rather than shooting in the darkand just making a product.
We wanted to say our plan is tomake the best product, to hire
the best people, to do good inthe world, to do good through
our business, to do less harmand more good on the planet.
(09:11):
And it's helped to kind ofguide us as we've gone along.
So I think that was kind of anearly on push for how do we want
to actually do business.
We know we can make thisproduct, but how do we want to
do it?
Bill Gilliland (09:24):
Yeah, no, I think it's super important to
get your values and cultureessentially established that
ahead of time.
I mean, I love that.
And there's two interestingparadoxes here.
Number one is a nonprofit hasto make a profit to stay in
business and the other one isthat you know for-profit
(09:46):
businesses can do.
It's not a paradox.
For-profit businesses can do alot of good in the world.
I mean, patagonia does a lot ofgood in the world.
So I love that.
You kind of had a role model ina way, of a company or at least
a company you wanted to emulate.
So how's that translated intowhat you're doing now?
Ben Colvin (10:07):
Well, funny, fast forward now and we're, you know,
in some pretty big retailstores across the region Fresh
Market, earth, fare, publix, allthese stores across multiple
states in the Southeast and oneof the head buyers, one of those
big retailers, had tried ourproduct, loved our product,
wanted to put us everywhere.
And um had tried our product,loved our product, want to put
us everywhere.
And he wrote back and he saidyou know what you guys are the
(10:28):
Patagonia of soda and I saidthat's high praise, man, that's
full circle.
What do you mean by that?
And he said, well, you guyshave have values and you have um
and you have, you have cultureand you're you're holding to it,
you're not compromising to it,and and it shows you're doing
something, quality and um, andeverybody can feel it, that kind
(10:49):
of thing.
And it just felt like, man,this is going kind of full
circle.
So, um, you know, our aim is tolive that dream.
It's to walk the walk and talk,to talk.
So, um, you know, I look backnow and we started with one
employee, or you know, jacob andI and one other employee who
was, who was driving our product.
Now we're sitting here lookingat 15 plus 15 plus employees
(11:12):
between two facilities and I'vereally only lost Two employees
in you know, eight, seven yearsof business.
No-transcript instilled in us anintent to to grow and to grow
(11:37):
smart.
Right, we've we've seen peoplewho grow too fast outgrow
themselves and put themselves ina hole.
We want to grow smart and by bydoing that, we needed the right
people there and we didn't wantto do what we've seen in the
brewing industry forever, whichis, you know, we can turn
through people, we can.
We can pay them little and worksome grueling shifts and work
them hard and long, and you knowwhat they burn out and they
(11:58):
leave, and they leave you a badreview on Google or something.
We looked at it the other wayand said it just seems like a
smart thing to do to find theright people, and by the right
people I mean people that fitthe culture, that can work well
with everybody else, that havesort of an aligned vision and
(12:21):
journey.
They're wanting to be on andtry to bring people in and
expect they're going to be therefor the long haul, not just for
building the culture of who weare.
But it sure seems through everystudy you looked at, it's a lot
more cost efficient and abetter investment to find
employees that want to stay onlong term rather than having to
(12:42):
go rehire, retrain, reprogramthis whole new group.
We like to build this like afamily, and I know people say
don't treat your business likeyour family, but we really do.
We like to hang out with eachother, we like to spend some
free time with each other.
We all know each other's kidsnames and um, you know it was
hitting 19 degrees last night, Iguess, and we were all texting
(13:04):
around making sure everybody hadblankets and don't get on the
icy roads, coming to work late,you know that kind of thing.
Um, so I think we've reallytried to, you know, build out of
that.
And so I think we've reallytried to, you know, build out of
that.
And so when we look at this coregroup of people, we got they're
incredible and, um, not justwhat they do day to day, but uh,
you know, we got hit by this,this pretty big storm, and uh,
(13:25):
we had no cell coverage for sixdays, so there was no way to
check in with with our folks.
And, um, so I got into ourfacility and, you know, waded
through waist-deep water to getto the front door and checked
out.
Luckily we were in pretty goodshape.
We only had a half-inch ofwater in the back of the
building, but I had to put asign up on the door saying hey,
everybody, leave your name, letme know you came by and you're
okay, I'm going to keep checkingin daily.
(13:47):
That's kind of all I could do.
That was on Thursday.
I guess it was about Sunday.
Jacob's cell phone was workingand he got a phone call from our
friends in Charlotte and thebrewers were like hey, we've
been canning water for two daysstraight, like we're coming up
with an 18 wheeler if you'reready.
So by Monday they pulled an 18wheeler in and I would say 80
(14:07):
percent of my staff were there.
They just showed up.
You know, they had their ownstuff to deal with, they had
their know family and houses totake care of, but they all
showed up and spent probablyfour days straight of 12, 16
hour work days just working ontheir own to help get supplies
out to our community.
And, um, yeah, I don't knowthere's not enough I could say
(14:29):
about our staff.
We've just grown a culture ofreally great people and it and
it shows not just in their workethic but the way they they give
to others.
Bill Gilliland (14:39):
Yeah, I think that's a.
I think that's the trueTestament is that they give to
others.
We could do some math and youknow you and I were talking
offline about how you know lackturnover is expensive and you
know, in in an industry whereyou know people would tend to
(14:59):
drive down wages, you guys havechosen to treat your people
differently, pay them well andkeep them and create this
culture that everybody wants tobe part of and everybody wants
to be part of something right.
I mean everybody wants to.
They want to be a team.
People want to be on a team.
Most people part of somethingright.
I mean everybody wants, theywant to be a team that people
want to be on the team mostpeople.
so I reckon, I reckon it's, Ireckon it's hundreds of
(15:20):
thousands of dollars that you'vesaved is the wrong word but not
had to spend, I guess, in a wayjust by having, by just
creating this commercialcommercial.
So I want to, I want to, just Ijust want to recap a little bit
.
So, from Patagonia was do theright thing by the right people.
Number two was get clear onyour values, because that's good
(15:45):
for marketing and for I mean,the marketing kind of takes care
of itself in a lot of ways ifyou get this reputation and then
grow smart with the rightpeople.
And four was invest in theright people.
And then that, and then theoutcome was we have this giant
storm that's disruptedeverything in our area and, uh,
you know, people show up andwork and help distribute water.
(16:06):
I mean it's unbelievable.
Ben Colvin (16:09):
It's, it's pretty unbelievable.
Um, yeah, I think, uh, I thinkthere was a time when and it
still, I guess, happens whenyou're finding your first job
you just want to find a job, youjust want to find a paycheck,
spend some time out doingsomething, whatever, yep.
But I think you're right.
I think, the more you find out,people want to be a part of
something bigger than that, andif you can't create that, I
(16:37):
think that's another reason forpeople leaving.
They're looking for somethingto feel proud about and to be a
part of and, yeah, something weshould all look to create in our
own business.
Bill Gilliland (16:45):
Yeah, we call it .
You're right.
When they first go to the job,they want to get a paycheck
right.
They don't know what they don'tknow and sometimes I mean
that's the point of having abunch of jobs before you
actually have a career.
So we say job, career, calling,so it's job and then hopefully
they want to make a career outof, you know, be part of
(17:05):
something and you know careerdoing what they want to do.
And my guess is and thencalling, like then is it, this
is what you're supposed to bedoing?
Like this is what you were puton the planet to be doing.
Obviously, I think it's superinteresting that you came out of
the nonprofit conservation andthen you got into this, but
you've taken the same, some ofthe same well, all the same
values and applied them to this.
(17:28):
So I mean, obviously this iswhere you're supposed to be and
I know it feels that way, orelse you wouldn't do it to be.
And I know it feels that way orelse you wouldn't do it.
Ben Colvin (17:41):
My guess is those two people that left probably
left for more of a calling, Iwould say.
One of the guys had anopportunity to go in and help
build out some really bigaffordable housing stuff in
Asheville.
Bill Gilliland (17:50):
Yeah, right, I mean you can't argue with that
stuff, right?
Ben Colvin (17:54):
And another guy had.
This is mid-COVID.
He was like, hey, I found thisother job that's going to
actually pay me pretty goodthrough COVID.
What do you think about that?
I'm like, hey, man, see whatyou got to do?
Yeah, it's just, you know, youhear some horror stories about
how people leave.
You know how employees leave orhow things happen.
I think our goal is like neverhave that.
You know you're building, youknow the people who've worked
(18:16):
for you, whether they're stillthere or not, they're a
reflection on who you are andwho your business is, and we
want it to.
You know shine.
Bill Gilliland (18:26):
Yeah, my guess is that everybody you know is
talking great about Devil's Foot.
They're like man.
My time at Devil's Foot wasawesome.
You know, here's what it taughtme.
Just like you were at thenonprofit for years, here's what
that taught me.
That's informed my decisionsmoving forward.
Everything is a.
Ben Colvin (18:45):
You just got to be a sponge everywhere I'm going to
give you a shameless plug here,but one of our rock stars is
Miranda.
Oh man, jacob and I knew fromway back through sort of
bartending and being part of theof that kind of thing.
So when we opened our venuetaproom she was the first person
we wanted.
We, we brought her in and wesaid, hey, this is not come in
(19:05):
with bar shifts, like, we wantto hand you the keys, build some
vision out of this place, worktogether as a team and have some
ownership in this.
And, um, you know, from myperspective, I don't know if
I've ever seen anybody at thatage kind of get that opportunity
.
And from her side I think shethought, what you're gonna,
you're gonna let me run withthis, and it took a little
figuring out.
But then, once you get into it,um, you know it's, she is part
(19:27):
of this team and it's not, it's,it's not my place to say, hey,
just go and do your job.
It's my job to sit there andsay, hey, what do you want to do
, what do you want to become,what's your dream?
So when we kind of build outour annual plans and what our
goals and objectives for theyear are, there's growth in that
right, I don't want you sittinghere stagnant Like what do you
want to grow into?
And when she expressed, likeher growth, her want, her
(19:50):
desires to learn more aboutbusiness and, you know, even
open her own and do her own herown thing one day.
And how does she get there?
So, boom, she's working withaction coach and meeting new
people and and hanging out withyou guys and learn a lot.
Bill Gilliland (20:05):
Yeah, when I first met her, I was like Holy
cow, where did y'all find her?
That was my, that was myinitial.
Every once in a while thathappens Like, yeah, I mean, holy
cow, that was a good hire.
Yeah, what I love about whatyou said, though and a lot of
people don't, some people missthis.
(20:28):
Not a lot of people get it, butsome people miss it and that is
that create.
You want to create theconditions for your employee
success, whatever.
That is Like I, you know, I'vehad employees to me and said hey
, bill, I'm going to go start myown business.
I'm like, well, I can't, don't,don't you know, don't, let me
stop you, cause I'm I mean, I'vestarted a few businesses.
(20:49):
I'm like, whatever you got togo, if that's what you're meant
to do, go do it.
So I think that's fantastic.
So, yeah, I love that.
Create the conditions.
Man, there are all kinds oflessons in this conversation we
had.
It's hard to sometimes, whenyou're starting, it's hard to
(21:12):
those values get tested.
I guess, yeah, because you'resaying, well, I want to pay
people, well, but here's thedeal, what are your thoughts
about that?
I guess.
How do you do that?
Ben Colvin (21:27):
How do you sort of follow those values?
Bill Gilliland (21:29):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like we're sitting here
talking and you and I and thoseyeah, I mean it sounds like.
It sounds like you know where.
We're sitting here talking andyou and i're just chatting and
it sounds easy.
But you know, because you havethese values, but they're going
to get challenged rightsomewhere along the way.
Something's going to happen andyou're going to be well, hang
on.
And I don't know about you, butI've.
There have been times when I'vebeen challenged and I'm like,
and I realize that, look, I'mout of culture here, I got to
(21:51):
come back and I got to pullthings back, and that you know,
it just happens.
Ben Colvin (21:56):
So, yeah, no, I would say you know some of the
some of the biggest, some of thebiggest assets that we have
that have kept us going away isthe amount of resources here in
our area and our state inparticular.
So we've worked with NC IDEA.
We've received two grantsthrough NC IDEA to help grow our
(22:17):
business and grow our company.
It's allowed us to kind of putmore of what we wanna do into
our employees and our growth aswell.
We've worked with Land of Skyand Mountain Resources to help
bring in the right kind of, youknow, support for our staff and
our employees and also to likebuild in training.
They do a lot of traininggrants, um, so, uh, yeah,
(22:38):
there's just beyond that.
You know, mountain biz works.
I will say, um, great, every,every single community should
have something like that.
Most of them do, but I don't,you know, not to the dynamics
that they've got.
They're particularly thishurricane.
I was like this is going to bea total catastrophe.
I don't know how anyone's goingto be able to work fast and
quick and pivot to supportbusinesses through this.
(22:59):
And Mount BizWorks was real,real fast.
Bill Gilliland (23:02):
They did a nice job, very nice job.
Ben Colvin (23:05):
They were able to help get capital to people and
help because we knew there weregoing to be grants, there was
going to be SBA stuff, but theSBA is broke.
It's going to take forever toget that through.
You know it was going to takeso much time and none of us had
that.
You know we were losing almostfour weeks of revenue in the
middle of peak leaf season andthen really slow recovery after
(23:25):
that.
So it's anyway.
I guess what I'm getting at isthere's there's resources and
agencies and organizations inevery community, but
particularly ours, that I feellike every single person that
wants to do business or has adream and wants to build it and
do some kind of, some kind ofdream that they've had, needs to
reach out to the small businesscommunity and find out who
these people are and don't beafraid to approach them.
(23:48):
And I mean just like comingfrom the nonprofit world.
As a nonprofit, I was there fora reason I was there to provide
a service and to help.
And so all these nonprofits oragencies in our area that's
their goal is to help.
It's not to critique you, it'snot to do anything.
It's there because they'rethere to help.
Bill Gilliland (24:07):
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to ask right, we're
taught to do our own work inschool and I think sometimes
that hurts us when we couldcollaborate or ask for help or
anything.
So having capital, so profit,money, does help.
(24:27):
There's a connection.
It's easier to live into yourvalues if you, if you're not
stressed for, for, for capital.
So I love that the way you've.
You've kind of you kind of tiedthat together.
So and I guess you know you,you I mean we lost, lost some
revenue, but you, I mean youalso had some geographical
diversity.
That didn't.
That probably helped you, youguys, I mean all diversity that
(24:53):
didn't.
Ben Colvin (24:53):
That probably helped you.
You guys I mean all yourbusiness isn't right here I mean
, yeah, probably a third um ofour distribution.
But I mean we had two weddingsthat had to get canceled.
They were coming to the venue.
We had two weddings.
We had a bunch of christmas,holiday parties and thanksgiving
gatherings, a reunion, you knowall kinds of stuff that got
lost.
It it was tough.
But you know, we specifically Idon't think every business can
(25:14):
do this, but we, even beforeCOVID, we built this business
intentionally I guess it wasmeant to be conservative to have
sort of different levers wecould pull so that we have a,
you know, a canned product.
So if COVID hits again I'm notdead in the water.
I got a product that canactually get to the hands of
customers, I can distributeacross different States.
(25:34):
I got distributors.
But also, if there is aterrible aluminum tariff on
China again, I've got moreonsite venue relatable stuff
that I can pull that lever andincrease revenue coming in from
that different stream.
And then we started to grow outour canned cocktail program.
(25:54):
So we take our fresh organicfarm to can product and blend it
with sort of local distilledspirits from friends that do
really great spirits here.
It's not very yeah.
Bill Gilliland (26:03):
Yeah, no, it's good stuff, yeah.
Ben Colvin (26:05):
Yep, and so it's just different levers that you
can pull and not everybody cando that.
I understand, but I think it'sanother sort of uh you know
result of trying to plan whetherthat plan goes sideways or not.
It's trying to build out someplans and contingencies so that
if something happens um, I wastalking about post-hurricane
stuff and brad stolberg, who'slocal talks I was just tired of
(26:27):
this word people throwing aroundwas resiliency.
I get it like I understand that, but I'm not sure people
understand the level ofresiliency that's kind of
required.
And brad talked about it adifferent way.
He called it, um, ruggedflexibility.
He said it's not just beingkind of passively resilient,
it's like you gotta be rugged,meaning like you can't just like
passively do you gotta put onyour boots and get dirty and
(26:48):
work long days and with no powerand no water, and um, yeah, and
you gotta be flexible, whichmeans not just responding to
things that happen to you, but,um, but re, you know, not
reacting to things that happento you, but responding more of
of current events in the, inyour economy.
So, um, you know, it's it.
I think it's another way ofsaying like, ooh, this is going
(27:11):
to be bad.
My mom used to say this it droveme nuts.
To just say like, well, youknow, life's what you make.
It Drove me nuts.
But at the same time, like youknow, I kind of think that's
(27:31):
what you're saying is, insteadof sitting back and letting
things happen and just reactingto the world that happens around
you, it's that you got to haveyour own impact and your own
intention on the world and beable to be rugged, get dirty,
get down in the mud to clean itup and get it right and react to
it, rather than just sit aroundand let it happen to you.
Bill Gilliland (27:43):
Yeah, super cool yeah?
No, I love that Well, yourmom's smart Life is what you
make it.
I mean, there are thingsoutside of our control, but
there's a lot we can control.
Let me wrap it up with this.
This is something I usually askalmost everybody.
It's like let's just say whatdo you wish you had known so
(28:03):
before?
It can be about anything, aboutbusiness, about life, whatever.
What do you wish somebody hadtold you years ago?
Ben Colvin (28:10):
you know, what do you wish somebody had told you
years ago?
I'll tell you, like I don'tknow, I'll say the two biggest
challenges we've had is COVIDand a hurricane.
So we, you know, we foundedthis company because, you know,
in part because we were havingour daughter and wanted cleaner,
non-alcoholic celebratoryoptions, you know.
(28:30):
So my daughter and my businesshave both lived through covid
and a hurricane and um, and it'sreally hard to prepare anybody
for anything like that.
But, um, but you know, I thinkwe could have, I think we all
could have done better comingout of those things.
But I guess if there's anythingI would have been told, it's um,
you know, be ready for it, beready for those kinds of things,
(28:55):
cause I mean, I think in ourminds we all know, you know it
can hit the fan at any point,kind of be ready, but until you
live through some really big uh,interruptions and disruptions,
I'm not sure you really know howflex, how ruggedly flexible you
can be.
Otherwise, um, yeah, but I'vebeen been given great advice,
(29:16):
you know, and and um, we've hada number of opportunities to
sell, investment and and growfaster than than we have, and a
lot of it was felt like too muchof a giveaway and and and
people have always advised usjust to be careful about that
kind of thing and, looking back,I feel really, really grateful
that we had that kind of advice.
I think, um, yeah, you know, Isee a lot of entrepreneurs these
(29:38):
days that are, um, they'restarting out in something and
they kind of think it's going tohappen overnight.
They're going to build a brand,sell the brand, walk away,
something like that and um it,it takes time, it takes patience
, it takes, um, you know, somestrategy and some some technical
work to get there and um.
So, yeah, if anybody taught meanything, I think it's don't
(30:01):
expect the, the overnightsuccess.
This isn't a tiktok instagramkind of celebrity growth.
This is you got to really putsome time and effort and love
into what you do and sacrifice.
Bill Gilliland (30:12):
Yeah, what's the saying?
Most overnight successes takeabout 15 years.
Yeah that's true.
It's something like that.
Hey this has been awesome.
This is cool.
Yeah, I love it.
I love that it also when youdon't take outside money or take
less outside money and youmaintain control, then you can.
(30:33):
It's easier to live into thosevalues.
It's you know you're notstressed about a.
You know hitting a some sort ofa profit goal or something like
you can make a decision to makeless money in a quarter that
you know is going to help youthree years from now, which is
hard to do when you've got abunch of outside shareholders
screaming for.
Ben Colvin (30:54):
Well, and just the idea of it's something you love.
You're trying to maintain somecontrol.
You don't want to lose that andlet it go skew and you lose
those culture, those values youknow.
Bill Gilliland (31:03):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think it would.
Well, hey, this has been fun,ben, thanks for being here, yeah
.
Hey there, everybody.
Welcome to this week's episodeof Epic Entrepreneurs, and I'm
talking to my friend Ben Colvinhere today, one of the owners at
Devil's Foot.
Hi, ben, hi yeah.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you got into Devil's Foot in
the first place.
Ben Colvin (00:22):
All right, that's a good long story but to cut it
short, uh, a good handful of us,uh, friendship had, uh, we've
us, 2015 ish have been, uh, youknow, going out and enjoying
asheville and um, and all of ourfriendships and and we're
having some bad cocktails atcertain places and just going.
Why are they putting this, youknow, really watery ice, but
(00:43):
then putting buffalo trace on itand a and a you know syrupy,
sugary thing in there.
We were like this gotta besomething better.
So, being in nashville and, uh,you live here long enough, you
know how to brew.
So we uh, so took my homebrewequipment and turned it into a
non-alcoholic homebrew facility,uh, in my house, and we're just
trying to make some kind ofspicier, less sugary.
(01:05):
Uh, you know, cocktail mixedginger beer and, uh and uh,
before too long, we were likeyou know, this stuff's pretty
good.
We could probably make a lot ofthis stuff.
We could bottle it, dosomething, um, and that was one
of those days.
We had our counter full ofginger root um, at my house just
running it through foodprocessors and stuff, and my
wife was was like y'all got toget this damn devil's foot out
(01:26):
of here.
We were like what the hell is adevil's foot?
And she said, I don't know,it's all those ginger roots, all
this gnarly ginger root thatlives down in the ground, kind
of like hooves of the devil'sfoot.
And we were like that's prettycool.
That was a cool thing she cameup with.
(01:49):
But then, soon after that, mywife and I found out we were
having our first child and wetook everyone down to Burial
Beer to celebrate and by thetime we got there realized there
was nothing but water on tap.
You know, this is circa 2015,2016.
So that was the norm and we alllooked at each other like this
is a huge, you know, gap inneeds here.
There's a lot of opportunityhere to do something cool.
And so Jacob and I, um, madethe decision we could try to
work our way out of our currentjobs.
So, after 16 years ofconservation, nonprofit work, I
(02:11):
uh, you know, started working myway out and finding equipment
that was, uh, the brewerieslocally were kind of outgrowing
and investing in some of our ownstuff, and um started making
ginger beer in a in a 2,500square foot mechanics garage old
mechanics garage.
That first year, jacob and I putout in 2018, we put out our
(02:32):
first cans.
That first year.
We put out something like150,000 cans on a really small
one can at a time canningmachine.
But it allowed us theflexibility to brew during the
day and then get home, put mykid to bed and get back in at
nine o'clock at night, put onepisodes of seinfeld, just can
all night.
I wanted to do um, but yeah,maybe fast forward.
(02:54):
Now we're sitting in a 15 000square foot facility putting out
, you know, 1.2 somethingmillion cans a year.
Um, our venue and space aregrowing, our staff are are
growing and happy and stickingaround and we are now
distributed across five statesNorth Carolina, south Carolina,
tennessee, alabama, virginia.
(03:15):
We're about to go into threenew states coming up really soon
.
Bill Gilliland (03:19):
Nice.
So I want to talk a little bitabout the transition from jobs
to the business.
Did you just pull the plug oneday, or how did that go?
Ben Colvin (03:35):
So there's definitely some some translation
between and I think when you'rewhen you're young and you're in
the middle of it, a nonprofitfeels completely different.
But the higher up you kind ofbecome the administration, you
realize non-profits, businessand you got to run it like a
business and um, uh, so my lastjob, my last job in that field,
was executive director wildforest and fauna, where I could
(03:57):
work you know, this is the rightone google, uh, chat and zoom
or a thing.
So I was working out ofasheville with a staffer in
Uganda and one in Peru and myboard was on Seattle and New
York.
So there's a lot ofcoordination to be done.
But yeah, as you're in thenonprofit world, you're talking
about the same thing.
You're raising revenue, whetheryou call it, you know
(04:18):
foundation grants or donationsor whatever you.
You know it's bottom linerevenue, and then you got your
expenses.
But but eventually we werestarting to look into this and
it felt like a much biggerundertaking, kind of coming up
out of nowhere.
So uh had some friends that hadgone through mountain biz works
, uh, training and courses withthem.
So I had some old workbooks andthings to kind of run through
and really dug into it.
(04:39):
And I mean, fortunately, wewere at that place where we
started transitioning out of ourjobs, so we had some time and
instead of just sitting aroundat the coffee shop doing nothing
, we were digging into books andtrying to build out business
plans.
And I think a lot of people saythat early business plans in
particular are worthless kind ofthing.
And you can look back on it andbe like, yeah, we didn't follow
(05:01):
that, we ended up going nowherenear that, but without doing it
, without putting it to practiceand doing that kind of thing,
you're not, you know, you'rejust shooting in the wind.
So we ended up having you knowhowever many iterations of a
business plan Um and that wasbefore you were.
Bill Gilliland (05:15):
Is that before?
Were you already canning atthat point, or was that before
you?
So you're still working.
Ben Colvin (05:20):
Yep, we're still working on it.
I mean, honestly, I was workingout of my job and we were
trying to find.
We scrapped together the barebones of investment we could all
put in together ourselves justto get some tanks.
You know, catawba Brewing inparticular.
They were growing really fastat the time, so a lot of their
outgrowing tanks we were able tokind of purchase pretty cheap
from them and buildrelationships with all these
breweries that kind of thing.
(05:40):
So it allowed us some timewhile you know, we weren't full
steam ahead brewing canningnonstop.
It gave us the time to sit downand kind of get our foundation
under us and kind of work on aplan.
Bill Gilliland (05:50):
Yeah, got it.
Yeah, yeah, and I love what yousaid.
Yeah, of course the planchanges, but you got to do the
thinking ahead of time.
So if you hadn't have done theplan, you probably never would
have pulled the trigger.
And you pull the trigger andthen you pull the trigger and
then you adjust the plan.
I mean it's, you know whetheryou follow it.
I mean it.
You know plans never work outexactly right.
So, yeah, that's, yeah, that'spretty cool.
(06:10):
Yeah, so what's your?
Give us some of your businessphilosophies now.
Ben Colvin (06:18):
I, um, I I kind of came at this, of course in the
nonprofit world.
So I think, um, uh, early on Ihad some people kind of came at
this, of course in the nonprofitworld.
So I think early on I had somepeople kind of knocking us,
being like it seems sort ofnaive, that kind of thing.
But one of the last things Idid in the nonprofit field, I
went out and did and took partin this.
I think it's like three years.
(06:39):
Every three years thisconference gets put on.
It's an invitation fromconservation groups by Patagonia
.
They put it on in Lake Tahoe.
There's only like 300 peoplethere and they're all organizers
and conservation professionals,that kind of stuff.
And you're working really tightwith a lot of the people that
Patagonia works with it'slegislators, it's grant writers,
it's lobbyists.
(07:01):
How do you really get thingsdone?
And being in that context Ijust learned a lot.
That company has done somethingpretty special.
I think they've put a lot oftheir ethic above their bottom
line at times and over time yourealize it's grown their bottom
line like crazy.
(07:22):
So particularly, I was sittingone time and Yvonne Chouinard
was in the room this time givinga talk to this whole group, and
this really long.
You know, dreadlocked guy frombuffalo field campaign raised
his hand and said what do yougot to say about?
I could never afford yourproducts, uh, if I wasn't doing
this and getting some kind ofdiscount, because I'm a campaign
staffer, you know.
And his answer was, hey, man,like I can make everything
cheaper if I want to, but then Icouldn't support the american
(07:44):
farmer and I couldn't supportorganic cotton growers and I
couldn't support, you know, fairwages and I couldn't support
vacations for my, my staff, andlike, if we're going to do the
right things by the right people, we've got to, we've got to do
it right.
So maybe I understand that youcouldn't afford it a fleece
jacket or something at thatpoint.
Uh, but that family of fourthat's going skiing, that
(08:06):
outfitted themselves completelyin in this organic cotton gear
or whatever, um, it's helping meto fund your campaign, it's
helping me to do good in theworld.
And and that guy, really I thinkhe got it.
He, you know he came at it kindof um, critically, but I think
he sat back and thought you knowwhat he's he's telling me?
He's, he, he's having to make apremium product.
(08:26):
He's having to make it cost alot.
That's sometimes out ofsomeone's reach, but the point
is that he wants to be able toturn it back and give good.
He doesn't want to just sitthere and make profit for the
sake of ships.
He wanted to build a companythat was built on some values.
(08:48):
So that's what we built off ofat Double Split.
We built it.
Our original mission visionvalues were built in the way a
nonprofit kind of would that wewanted to have a foundation
rather than shooting in the darkand just making a product.
We wanted to say our plan is tomake the best product, to hire
the best people, to do good inthe world, to do good through
our business, to do less harmand more good on the planet.
(09:11):
And it's helped to kind ofguide us as we've gone along.
So I think that was kind of anearly on push for how do we want
to actually do business.
We know we can make thisproduct, but how do we want to
do it?
Bill Gilliland (09:24):
Yeah, no, I think it's super important to
get your values and cultureessentially established that
ahead of time.
I mean, I love that.
And there's two interestingparadoxes here.
Number one is a nonprofit hasto make a profit to stay in
business and the other one isthat you know for-profit
(09:46):
businesses can do.
It's not a paradox.
For-profit businesses can do alot of good in the world.
I mean, patagonia does a lot ofgood in the world.
So I love that.
You kind of had a role model ina way, of a company or at least
a company you wanted to emulate.
So how's that translated intowhat you're doing now?
Ben Colvin (10:07):
Well, funny, fast forward now and we're, you know,
in some pretty big retailstores across the region Fresh
Market, earth, fare, publix, allthese stores across multiple
states in the Southeast and oneof the head buyers, one of those
big retailers, had tried ourproduct, loved our product,
wanted to put us everywhere.
And um had tried our product,loved our product, want to put
us everywhere.
And he wrote back and he saidyou know what you guys are the
(10:28):
Patagonia of soda and I saidthat's high praise, man, that's
full circle.
What do you mean by that?
And he said, well, you guyshave have values and you have um
and you have, you have cultureand you're you're holding to it,
you're not compromising to it,and and it shows you're doing
something, quality and um, andeverybody can feel it, that kind
(10:49):
of thing.
And it just felt like, man,this is going kind of full
circle.
So, um, you know, our aim is tolive that dream.
It's to walk the walk and talk,to talk.
So, um, you know, I look backnow and we started with one
employee, or you know, jacob andI and one other employee who
was, who was driving our product.
Now we're sitting here lookingat 15 plus 15 plus employees
(11:12):
between two facilities and I'vereally only lost Two employees
in you know, eight, seven yearsof business.
No-transcript instilled in us anintent to to grow and to grow
(11:37):
smart.
Right, we've we've seen peoplewho grow too fast outgrow
themselves and put themselves ina hole.
We want to grow smart and by bydoing that, we needed the right
people there and we didn't wantto do what we've seen in the
brewing industry forever, whichis, you know, we can turn
through people, we can.
We can pay them little and worksome grueling shifts and work
them hard and long, and you knowwhat they burn out and they
(11:58):
leave, and they leave you a badreview on Google or something.
We looked at it the other wayand said it just seems like a
smart thing to do to find theright people, and by the right
people I mean people that fitthe culture, that can work well
with everybody else, that havesort of an aligned vision and
(12:21):
journey.
They're wanting to be on andtry to bring people in and
expect they're going to be therefor the long haul, not just for
building the culture of who weare.
But it sure seems through everystudy you looked at, it's a lot
more cost efficient and abetter investment to find
employees that want to stay onlong term rather than having to
(12:42):
go rehire, retrain, reprogramthis whole new group.
We like to build this like afamily, and I know people say
don't treat your business likeyour family, but we really do.
We like to hang out with eachother, we like to spend some
free time with each other.
We all know each other's kidsnames and um, you know it was
hitting 19 degrees last night, Iguess, and we were all texting
(13:04):
around making sure everybody hadblankets and don't get on the
icy roads, coming to work late,you know that kind of thing.
Um, so I think we've reallytried to, you know, build out of
that.
And so I think we've reallytried to, you know, build out of
that.
And so when we look at this coregroup of people, we got they're
incredible and, um, not justwhat they do day to day, but uh,
you know, we got hit by this,this pretty big storm, and uh,
(13:25):
we had no cell coverage for sixdays, so there was no way to
check in with with our folks.
And, um, so I got into ourfacility and, you know, waded
through waist-deep water to getto the front door and checked
out.
Luckily we were in pretty goodshape.
We only had a half-inch ofwater in the back of the
building, but I had to put asign up on the door saying hey,
everybody, leave your name, letme know you came by and you're
okay, I'm going to keep checkingin daily.
(13:47):
That's kind of all I could do.
That was on Thursday.
I guess it was about Sunday.
Jacob's cell phone was workingand he got a phone call from our
friends in Charlotte and thebrewers were like hey, we've
been canning water for two daysstraight, like we're coming up
with an 18 wheeler if you'reready.
So by Monday they pulled an 18wheeler in and I would say 80
(14:07):
percent of my staff were there.
They just showed up.
You know, they had their ownstuff to deal with, they had
their know family and houses totake care of, but they all
showed up and spent probablyfour days straight of 12, 16
hour work days just working ontheir own to help get supplies
out to our community.
And, um, yeah, I don't knowthere's not enough I could say
(14:29):
about our staff.
We've just grown a culture ofreally great people and it and
it shows not just in their workethic but the way they they give
to others.
Bill Gilliland (14:39):
Yeah, I think that's a.
I think that's the trueTestament is that they give to
others.
We could do some math and youknow you and I were talking
offline about how you know lackturnover is expensive and you
know, in in an industry whereyou know people would tend to
(14:59):
drive down wages, you guys havechosen to treat your people
differently, pay them well andkeep them and create this
culture that everybody wants tobe part of and everybody wants
to be part of something right.
I mean everybody wants to.
They want to be a team.
People want to be on a team.
Most people part of somethingright.
I mean everybody wants, theywant to be a team that people
want to be on the team mostpeople.
so I reckon, I reckon it's, Ireckon it's hundreds of
(15:20):
thousands of dollars that you'vesaved is the wrong word but not
had to spend, I guess, in a wayjust by having, by just
creating this commercialcommercial.
So I want to, I want to, just Ijust want to recap a little bit
.
So, from Patagonia was do theright thing by the right people.
Number two was get clear onyour values, because that's good
(15:45):
for marketing and for I mean,the marketing kind of takes care
of itself in a lot of ways ifyou get this reputation and then
grow smart with the rightpeople.
And four was invest in theright people.
And then that, and then theoutcome was we have this giant
storm that's disruptedeverything in our area and, uh,
you know, people show up andwork and help distribute water.
(16:06):
I mean it's unbelievable.
Ben Colvin (16:09):
It's, it's pretty unbelievable.
Um, yeah, I think, uh, I thinkthere was a time when and it
still, I guess, happens whenyou're finding your first job
you just want to find a job, youjust want to find a paycheck,
spend some time out doingsomething, whatever, yep.
But I think you're right.
I think, the more you find out,people want to be a part of
something bigger than that, andif you can't create that, I
(16:37):
think that's another reason forpeople leaving.
They're looking for somethingto feel proud about and to be a
part of and, yeah, something weshould all look to create in our
own business.
Bill Gilliland (16:45):
Yeah, we call it .
You're right.
When they first go to the job,they want to get a paycheck
right.
They don't know what they don'tknow and sometimes I mean
that's the point of having abunch of jobs before you
actually have a career.
So we say job, career, calling,so it's job and then hopefully
they want to make a career outof, you know, be part of
(17:05):
something and you know careerdoing what they want to do.
And my guess is and thencalling, like then is it, this
is what you're supposed to bedoing?
Like this is what you were puton the planet to be doing.
Obviously, I think it's superinteresting that you came out of
the nonprofit conservation andthen you got into this, but
you've taken the same, some ofthe same well, all the same
values and applied them to this.
(17:28):
So I mean, obviously this iswhere you're supposed to be and
I know it feels that way, orelse you wouldn't do it to be.
And I know it feels that way orelse you wouldn't do it.
Ben Colvin (17:41):
My guess is those two people that left probably
left for more of a calling, Iwould say.
One of the guys had anopportunity to go in and help
build out some really bigaffordable housing stuff in
Asheville.
Bill Gilliland (17:50):
Yeah, right, I mean you can't argue with that
stuff, right?
Ben Colvin (17:54):
And another guy had.
This is mid-COVID.
He was like, hey, I found thisother job that's going to
actually pay me pretty goodthrough COVID.
What do you think about that?
I'm like, hey, man, see whatyou got to do?
Yeah, it's just, you know, youhear some horror stories about
how people leave.
You know how employees leave orhow things happen.
I think our goal is like neverhave that.
You know you're building, youknow the people who've worked
(18:16):
for you, whether they're stillthere or not, they're a
reflection on who you are andwho your business is, and we
want it to.
You know shine.
Bill Gilliland (18:26):
Yeah, my guess is that everybody you know is
talking great about Devil's Foot.
They're like man.
My time at Devil's Foot wasawesome.
You know, here's what it taughtme.
Just like you were at thenonprofit for years, here's what
that taught me.
That's informed my decisionsmoving forward.
Everything is a.
Ben Colvin (18:45):
You just got to be a sponge everywhere I'm going to
give you a shameless plug here,but one of our rock stars is
Miranda.
Oh man, jacob and I knew fromway back through sort of
bartending and being part of theof that kind of thing.
So when we opened our venuetaproom she was the first person
we wanted.
We, we brought her in and wesaid, hey, this is not come in
(19:05):
with bar shifts, like, we wantto hand you the keys, build some
vision out of this place, worktogether as a team and have some
ownership in this.
And, um, you know, from myperspective, I don't know if
I've ever seen anybody at thatage kind of get that opportunity
.
And from her side I think shethought, what you're gonna,
you're gonna let me run withthis, and it took a little
figuring out.
But then, once you get into it,um, you know it's, she is part
(19:27):
of this team and it's not, it's,it's not my place to say, hey,
just go and do your job.
It's my job to sit there andsay, hey, what do you want to do
, what do you want to become,what's your dream?
So when we kind of build outour annual plans and what our
goals and objectives for theyear are, there's growth in that
right, I don't want you sittinghere stagnant Like what do you
want to grow into?
And when she expressed, likeher growth, her want, her
(19:50):
desires to learn more aboutbusiness and, you know, even
open her own and do her own herown thing one day.
And how does she get there?
So, boom, she's working withaction coach and meeting new
people and and hanging out withyou guys and learn a lot.
Bill Gilliland (20:05):
Yeah, when I first met her, I was like Holy
cow, where did y'all find her?
That was my, that was myinitial.
Every once in a while thathappens Like, yeah, I mean, holy
cow, that was a good hire.
Yeah, what I love about whatyou said, though and a lot of
people don't, some people missthis.
(20:28):
Not a lot of people get it, butsome people miss it and that is
that create.
You want to create theconditions for your employee
success, whatever.
That is Like I, you know, I'vehad employees to me and said hey
, bill, I'm going to go start myown business.
I'm like, well, I can't, don't,don't you know, don't, let me
stop you, cause I'm I mean, I'vestarted a few businesses.
(20:49):
I'm like, whatever you got togo, if that's what you're meant
to do, go do it.
So I think that's fantastic.
So, yeah, I love that.
Create the conditions.
Man, there are all kinds oflessons in this conversation we
had.
It's hard to sometimes, whenyou're starting, it's hard to
(21:12):
those values get tested.
I guess, yeah, because you'resaying, well, I want to pay
people, well, but here's thedeal, what are your thoughts
about that?
I guess.
How do you do that?
Ben Colvin (21:27):
How do you sort of follow those values?
Bill Gilliland (21:29):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like we're sitting here
talking and you and I and thoseyeah, I mean it sounds like.
It sounds like you know where.
We're sitting here talking andyou and i're just chatting and
it sounds easy.
But you know, because you havethese values, but they're going
to get challenged rightsomewhere along the way.
Something's going to happen andyou're going to be well, hang
on.
And I don't know about you, butI've.
There have been times when I'vebeen challenged and I'm like,
and I realize that, look, I'mout of culture here, I got to
(21:51):
come back and I got to pullthings back, and that you know,
it just happens.
Ben Colvin (21:56):
So, yeah, no, I would say you know some of the
some of the biggest, some of thebiggest assets that we have
that have kept us going away isthe amount of resources here in
our area and our state inparticular.
So we've worked with NC IDEA.
We've received two grantsthrough NC IDEA to help grow our
(22:17):
business and grow our company.
It's allowed us to kind of putmore of what we wanna do into
our employees and our growth aswell.
We've worked with Land of Skyand Mountain Resources to help
bring in the right kind of, youknow, support for our staff and
our employees and also to likebuild in training.
They do a lot of traininggrants, um, so, uh, yeah,
(22:38):
there's just beyond that.
You know, mountain biz works.
I will say, um, great, every,every single community should
have something like that.
Most of them do, but I don't,you know, not to the dynamics
that they've got.
They're particularly thishurricane.
I was like this is going to bea total catastrophe.
I don't know how anyone's goingto be able to work fast and
quick and pivot to supportbusinesses through this.
(22:59):
And Mount BizWorks was real,real fast.
Bill Gilliland (23:02):
They did a nice job, very nice job.
Ben Colvin (23:05):
They were able to help get capital to people and
help because we knew there weregoing to be grants, there was
going to be SBA stuff, but theSBA is broke.
It's going to take forever toget that through.
You know it was going to takeso much time and none of us had
that.
You know we were losing almostfour weeks of revenue in the
middle of peak leaf season andthen really slow recovery after
(23:25):
that.
So it's anyway.
I guess what I'm getting at isthere's there's resources and
agencies and organizations inevery community, but
particularly ours, that I feellike every single person that
wants to do business or has adream and wants to build it and
do some kind of, some kind ofdream that they've had, needs to
reach out to the small businesscommunity and find out who
these people are and don't beafraid to approach them.
(23:48):
And I mean just like comingfrom the nonprofit world.
As a nonprofit, I was there fora reason I was there to provide
a service and to help.
And so all these nonprofits oragencies in our area that's
their goal is to help.
It's not to critique you, it'snot to do anything.
It's there because they'rethere to help.
Bill Gilliland (24:07):
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to ask right, we're
taught to do our own work inschool and I think sometimes
that hurts us when we couldcollaborate or ask for help or
anything.
So having capital, so profit,money, does help.
(24:27):
There's a connection.
It's easier to live into yourvalues if you, if you're not
stressed for, for, for capital.
So I love that the way you've.
You've kind of you kind of tiedthat together.
So and I guess you know you,you I mean we lost, lost some
revenue, but you, I mean youalso had some geographical
diversity.
That didn't.
That probably helped you, youguys, I mean all diversity that
(24:53):
didn't.
Ben Colvin (24:53):
That probably helped you.
You guys I mean all yourbusiness isn't right here I mean
, yeah, probably a third um ofour distribution.
But I mean we had two weddingsthat had to get canceled.
They were coming to the venue.
We had two weddings.
We had a bunch of christmas,holiday parties and thanksgiving
gatherings, a reunion, you knowall kinds of stuff that got
lost.
It it was tough.
But you know, we specifically Idon't think every business can
(25:14):
do this, but we, even beforeCOVID, we built this business
intentionally I guess it wasmeant to be conservative to have
sort of different levers wecould pull so that we have a,
you know, a canned product.
So if COVID hits again I'm notdead in the water.
I got a product that canactually get to the hands of
customers, I can distributeacross different States.
(25:34):
I got distributors.
But also, if there is aterrible aluminum tariff on
China again, I've got moreonsite venue relatable stuff
that I can pull that lever andincrease revenue coming in from
that different stream.
And then we started to grow outour canned cocktail program.
(25:54):
So we take our fresh organicfarm to can product and blend it
with sort of local distilledspirits from friends that do
really great spirits here.
It's not very yeah.
Bill Gilliland (26:03):
Yeah, no, it's good stuff, yeah.
Ben Colvin (26:05):
Yep, and so it's just different levers that you
can pull and not everybody cando that.
I understand, but I think it'sanother sort of uh you know
result of trying to plan whetherthat plan goes sideways or not.
It's trying to build out someplans and contingencies so that
if something happens um, I wastalking about post-hurricane
stuff and brad stolberg, who'slocal talks I was just tired of
(26:27):
this word people throwing aroundwas resiliency.
I get it like I understand that, but I'm not sure people
understand the level ofresiliency that's kind of
required.
And brad talked about it adifferent way.
He called it, um, ruggedflexibility.
He said it's not just beingkind of passively resilient,
it's like you gotta be rugged,meaning like you can't just like
passively do you gotta put onyour boots and get dirty and
(26:48):
work long days and with no powerand no water, and um, yeah, and
you gotta be flexible, whichmeans not just responding to
things that happen to you, but,um, but re, you know, not
reacting to things that happento you, but responding more of
of current events in the, inyour economy.
So, um, you know, it's it.
I think it's another way ofsaying like, ooh, this is going
(27:11):
to be bad.
My mom used to say this it droveme nuts.
To just say like, well, youknow, life's what you make.
It Drove me nuts.
But at the same time, like youknow, I kind of think that's
(27:31):
what you're saying is, insteadof sitting back and letting
things happen and just reactingto the world that happens around
you, it's that you got to haveyour own impact and your own
intention on the world and beable to be rugged, get dirty,
get down in the mud to clean itup and get it right and react to
it, rather than just sit aroundand let it happen to you.
Bill Gilliland (27:43):
Yeah, super cool yeah?
No, I love that Well, yourmom's smart Life is what you
make it.
I mean, there are thingsoutside of our control, but
there's a lot we can control.
Let me wrap it up with this.
This is something I usually askalmost everybody.
It's like let's just say whatdo you wish you had known so
(28:03):
before?
It can be about anything, aboutbusiness, about life, whatever.
What do you wish somebody hadtold you years ago?
Ben Colvin (28:10):
you know, what do you wish somebody had told you
years ago?
I'll tell you, like I don'tknow, I'll say the two biggest
challenges we've had is COVIDand a hurricane.
So we, you know, we foundedthis company because, you know,
in part because we were havingour daughter and wanted cleaner,
non-alcoholic celebratoryoptions, you know.
(28:30):
So my daughter and my businesshave both lived through covid
and a hurricane and um, and it'sreally hard to prepare anybody
for anything like that.
But, um, but you know, I thinkwe could have, I think we all
could have done better comingout of those things.
But I guess if there's anythingI would have been told, it's um,
you know, be ready for it, beready for those kinds of things,
(28:55):
cause I mean, I think in ourminds we all know, you know it
can hit the fan at any point,kind of be ready, but until you
live through some really big uh,interruptions and disruptions,
I'm not sure you really know howflex, how ruggedly flexible you
can be.
Otherwise, um, yeah, but I'vebeen been given great advice,
(29:16):
you know, and and um, we've hada number of opportunities to
sell, investment and and growfaster than than we have, and a
lot of it was felt like too muchof a giveaway and and and
people have always advised usjust to be careful about that
kind of thing and, looking back,I feel really, really grateful
that we had that kind of advice.
I think, um, yeah, you know, Isee a lot of entrepreneurs these
(29:38):
days that are, um, they'restarting out in something and
they kind of think it's going tohappen overnight.
They're going to build a brand,sell the brand, walk away,
something like that and um it,it takes time, it takes patience
, it takes, um, you know, somestrategy and some some technical
work to get there and um.
So, yeah, if anybody taught meanything, I think it's don't
(30:01):
expect the, the overnightsuccess.
This isn't a tiktok instagramkind of celebrity growth.
This is you got to really putsome time and effort and love
into what you do and sacrifice.
Bill Gilliland (30:12):
Yeah, what's the saying?
Most overnight successes takeabout 15 years.
Yeah that's true.
It's something like that.
Hey this has been awesome.
This is cool.
Yeah, I love it.
I love that it also when youdon't take outside money or take
less outside money and youmaintain control, then you can.
(30:33):
It's easier to live into thosevalues.
It's you know you're notstressed about a.
You know hitting a some sort ofa profit goal or something like
you can make a decision to makeless money in a quarter that
you know is going to help youthree years from now, which is
hard to do when you've got abunch of outside shareholders
screaming for.
Ben Colvin (30:54):
Well, and just the idea of it's something you love.
You're trying to maintain somecontrol.
You don't want to lose that andlet it go skew and you lose
those culture, those values youknow.
Bill Gilliland (31:03):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think it would.
Well, hey, this has been fun,ben, thanks for being here, yeah
.
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