January 23, 2025 • 29 mins
Imagine transforming your passion for craftsmanship into a thriving business. That's exactly what Houston Trim did, and today, he's sharing his inspiring journey from the workshop to founding Innovex Renovations in Asheville. We promise you'll glean priceless insights as Houston recounts his transition from working with his father in the trades to mastering the nuances of running a business. He candidly reveals how his move to Asheville, spurred by his wife’s career, became a turning point that tested his resilience and business acumen.
Houston's story is a testament to the power of delegation and the importance of work-life balance. Overwhelmed by long hours and family commitments, he faced the critical need to adapt when a chance encounter with a business coach changed his perspective. Discover how embracing the 80-20 rule and trusting others not only improved his business operations but also enhanced his personal well-being. Through mentorship and learning from experienced professionals, Houston highlights the necessity of recognizing one's limits and finding strength in teamwork.
We also dive into the essence of business growth and leadership through the lens of the BE EPIC framework: Bring the Energy, Education, Planning, Inspiration, and Commitment. Houston illustrates these pillars with personal anecdotes and practical strategies that have driven his company’s success. We explore the significance of embracing change, making tough decisions, and adapting to new circumstances—essential moves for any entrepreneur balancing personal and professional responsibilities. Join us for this enriching conversation that not only celebrates entrepreneurial spirit but also equips aspiring business owners with valuable lessons for growth and transformation.
Thanks for Listening. You may contact me at https://billgilliland.actioncoach.com/
All the best!
Bill
Thanks for listening. Please hit the subscribe button, leave us a 5 star review, and share this podcast. You can reach me at williamgilliland@actioncoach.com.
All the best!
Bill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bill Gilliland (00:02):
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode
of Epic Entrepreneurs.
I'm here with Houston Trim.
Hi, Houston, how are you doingtoday?
Doing great, and yourselfExcellent, excellent, excellent.
So let's jump right in.
Tell us a little bit about yourbusiness and how and why you
got into business sort of theorigin story here into business
(00:29):
sort of the origin story here.
Houston Trim (00:30):
Uh, so my company in of x renovations um, stemmed
from a lifelong, uh just abilityto work in the trades of my dad
, help operate his company.
When I met my wife, we moved usand our five kids to asheville,
and so we she had asked me whenwe moved to asheville what I
want to do, and I said I want togo back into the renovation
business, and but this time Iwanted to do it my way.
(00:50):
And so my son and my wifehelped come up with InnoVex,
which stands for innovation andexcellence, and our goal was to
change the way people live in intheir homes, and so by
providing quality in-houserenovations, we were able to
(01:10):
keep the details at theforefront for everyone's
renovation projects and to justmake things better.
Bill Gilliland (01:21):
Got it.
So was your dad.
Did he have a renovationcompany too, or was it a
different kind of trade?
Houston Trim (01:28):
He did.
He started out actually.
He left a career, he movedutility buildings for a local
contractor and one day he's likeI'm tired of working 18 hours a
day not seeing my family, andanother contractor friend of his
said, hey, I'll teach you howto do what I do.
And so it was born that my dad,you know, became his own
(01:52):
contractor and started workingon houses, and I think that was
when I was about 12 or 13 yearsold and so watched him learn up
until I was 18.
He was doing all the projectshimself and I had been working
with him since I was 13 yeah, soyou picked up a hammer pretty
early in life.
Bill Gilliland (02:13):
I did, yeah, yeah, I got it, so you learned
from the ground up.
That's cool.
So what prompted the move toashville like?
What was that about?
Houston Trim (02:21):
uh, so my wife?
Uh, we were dating at the timebut she had just finished PA
school down in Charlotte andlanded a job with Mission
Hospital, got it, so it was setshe was moving.
Bill Gilliland (02:35):
So yeah, if you wanted to stay hang out with her
, you probably needed to comealong, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and your dealis and you can do I mean, you
know you can do remodeling orreconstruction anywhere, so
that's that's, that's awesome,so Great.
So I guess the question is andwhat are the things?
(02:57):
Is I mean what?
What are some of the challengesthat you've had to overcome and
maybe what are some of thelearnings that you had along the
way that you've had to overcome, and maybe what are some of the
learnings that you had alongthe way.
Houston Trim (03:06):
So for me, as I started in renovations with my
dad, I learned how to do thework right, learned how to make
things nice, really to buildsomething out of nothing to, you
know, change everything aboutsomething.
So, with the hammer, tools,everything, I was well equipped,
learned the skills and was ableto do everything.
(03:30):
But the biggest challenge thatI had to overcome is that once I
started, my dad went back towork.
My dad, when I was roughly 21,.
He was tired of running acompany, said here you run the
company, but I had zero businessbackground.
I didn't know what profitoverhead anything like that was,
(03:50):
and so people would say justadd 10%.
And so we went down that roadfor a long time and luckily we
were able to stay afloat and dothings long through the
recession of 2008.
But later on down the road,lacking the business side was
(04:15):
really the pickle, and so Iended up stopping working with
my dad, going back into heavyconstruction.
Going back into heavyconstruction.
But then fast forward to 2014,late 2014,.
My wife and I moved toAsheville.
She says what do you want to do?
I said start a renovationcompany.
(04:35):
So when we got here.
I knew I was missing some stepsbefore I started a company and
so where you get those steps aguy had taught me a long time
ago if you want to learnsomething, you find somebody
that does that and you go thereand ask if you can learn, and he
would say you go there andoffer to work for free to gain
(04:57):
the knowledge, which is far morevaluable than the money up
front.
And so, talking to a guy inAsheville, friend of mine knew a
contractor that knew a companythat needed an estimator and so
I went into estimating for acommercial company and that guy
taught me how and why you haveprofit and overhead.
(05:21):
You know what?
What are the rules?
Bill Gilliland (05:24):
Yeah, what are?
Houston Trim (05:24):
the rules to make money yeah, yeah, yeah yeah and
so where I would feel I remembertrying to tack on 10 to a
project and feeling like myheartstrings were like being
pulled, like you can't do thatto somebody right, like the
reality is just this is how manytwo by fours, this is how much
this and how much labor.
And so you know, once we satdown, I mean he walked me
(05:48):
through projects that we didstart to finish.
He walked me through projectsthat clients bought the
materials for, and he reallystepped up to show me exactly
why a company has to know theiroverhead in order to work
through their profit.
But also, how do you navigatethat when something does come up
(06:11):
like, oh yeah, well, I boughtall my flooring.
How do you do that?
Because those are products thatare still managed by the
company, and so my biggesthurdle was understanding that
you know not the estimating.
I had that down pat, like I knewhow to calculate.
I had been doing it for so long.
But you know that overhead andprofit is how the company can
(06:35):
operate.
It's how fuel gets put in thetruck, insurance gets paid.
You know all these differentaspects of the project where, in
the past, if we miscut a two byfour, I ate it.
It was like oh, my mistake.
Bill Gilliland (06:48):
Right, yeah, yeah, all right.
So you found a mentor, and thenwhat?
You decided to pull the plugand get started.
Houston Trim (06:57):
Yep.
So I said to my wife.
I said when I moved toAsheville there's no way you can
just walk into a new town andstart a company.
You have to know people.
You've got to get to knowpeople and so, thankfully,
through that estimation job, Iwas also one of their project
managers.
So I met a lot of commercialcontractors in the area and when
(07:23):
I decided to leave the companya year later, I had expanded
their bit.
After he taught me these thingsin the first few weeks of
working for him, he also taughtme that there were software out
there that helped calculatematerials and things like that.
So we grew him to a point wheretheir company was too big.
They didn't want to be that big.
So in turn, I had startedlooking like okay, I want to get
into residential and I've runacross somebody I knew at the
(07:47):
gym they're working with anothercontractor and they felt like
they were getting shafted and sothey asked me to take a look at
the project.
And September 2016,.
I quit my job as an estimatorand, within one week, signed a
contract to do a duplexrenovation that would pay my
salary that I was making in fourmonths instead of a year.
Bill Gilliland (08:10):
Right, since you knew your numbers, since you
knew your numbers at this pointbecause you knew how to
calculate them.
Well, I mean you got to learn,right, I mean I remember you
know, I remember early in mydays when somebody just sat me
down and showed me how to do.
It was actually the same kindof thing a takeoff to figure out
, like how much do we reallyneed to charge for this thing?
(08:31):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,absolutely yeah.
Houston Trim (08:35):
Yeah, and there's.
You know, when I started doingthis like when I was early, I
mean when I started within thelate nineties, early two
thousands, we don't have theresources Then you couldn't just
jump on Google and see if youwere messing up.
You know, you, you, you eitheryou either realize that you
didn't have any money in yourwallet.
Bill Gilliland (08:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
And the truth is, just addingon 10% in construction is not
going to get it done.
Right yeah it's not going towork.
I mean you're going to be handof it's, just not.
Yeah, it's going to be tough.
Houston Trim (09:10):
Yeah, exactly, I mean that's the current argument
, with this insurance work rightnow.
We're dealing with HurricaneHelene at the moment.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I meanthat's the current argument, you
know, with this insurance workright now.
You know we're dealing withHurricane Helene at the moment.
Bill Gilliland (09:18):
Yeah.
Houston Trim (09:19):
And so you know it makes it a little bit tougher.
Bill Gilliland (09:22):
Yeah, the insurance companies are trying
to do their job.
They don't want it, they wantto pay as little as they can.
But you know, when the theowners are caught in the middle,
you're negotiating on theirbehalf, trying to them hey look,
this is what it costs to dothis job, and so, yeah, so
there's a, there's a mismatchbetween what's going on.
So, um, I remember back in theday we had a house in hurricane
(09:45):
hugo and it and the insurancecompanies there were just
writing blank checks.
They it was a different,different time they just came
around said how would we?
Okay, how much is it?
And we they gave us the moneyand it wasn't, it was, you know,
there was no argument.
So now they're like this is atotally different environment.
Houston Trim (10:01):
So right, the internet has definitely changed
it it's unbelievable.
Bill Gilliland (10:06):
Let well, let's okay.
So what have been your like biglessons, like what's been a big
lesson or two for you?
Houston Trim (10:14):
uh, for me, and operating a company has been, uh
, letting go of control, um, youknow, learning to delegate to
others, um, and also trusting inothers.
You know that that there arepeople out there that can take
things off your plate as abusiness owner.
Bill Gilliland (10:35):
So is that just something you got organically,
or, you know, just figured itout or what happened?
Houston Trim (10:41):
No, I ended up sitting down at the builder
international builder show acouple of years ago and I
remember thinking can't get awayfrom the work machine I had
created.
I was working 60, 70, 80 hoursa week, you know, constantly,
all year, With five kids.
It was a little bit difficult.
(11:01):
They were growing up without us.
And finally I remember going tothe Builders Show.
It was February.
I'd had employees that had beenwith me for years, you know.
They were like you're taking ontoo much, you're doing too much
.
Um, it's hard to keep up.
And so that was in likeNovember, fast forward to
(11:23):
February.
I was just beat.
I wasn't real sure what to do.
And uh, a guy that I knew thatoperated a company that mimicked
what I wanted my company tolook like.
I reached out to him and we satdown at the builder show.
At this time I didn't know thathe was a business coach.
(11:44):
All I knew is that his companyreflected what I wanted my
company to look like and he saidyou know, are you how much do
you want to change?
Right, Like, if we're sittinghere today and we just want to
nonchalantly talk about change,that's fine.
But he said, if you really wantto change.
You'll put money where yourmouth is, he said.
(12:05):
You know, if you want to moveforward, I'll work with you for
three months.
We'll do week to week one onone session.
Three months We'll doweek-to-week one-on-one sessions
.
We'll set hard goals and wewill achieve those goals if we
stay on it.
And I remember handing him mycredit card, thinking I don't
(12:26):
even know what I'm doing.
But the one thing that I knewis that continuing to work 80
hours a week continually wasjust going to shut down my
business, because eventually Iwas going to burn out.
Bill Gilliland (12:39):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, it was a great decisionto give it a shot, to know that
you needed to do somethingdifferent.
Houston Trim (12:48):
Right.
Bill Gilliland (12:50):
That's right.
So essentially through thatprocess you learn that you can't
so essentially, through thatprocess, you learn that you
can't.
Houston Trim (12:58):
You got to trust somebody.
Yeah, yeah, If we're trying togrow which is, you know,
ultimately, what I learnedcoming into the Asheville market
we are a small area, you know.
It seems like it's a huge city,but the core structure of the
people doing the work is verysmall, and so what we were
finding is more and more peopleneed help as people are moving
(13:19):
here and there just wasn'tenough contract to do the work.
And I was taking on the work.
I'd work day and night,weekends, try to help as many
people as I could, but what Iwas doing is I was leaving my
family in the dust, and so youknow how do you help more people
, right, Like there's only oneof me and one of you.
We have to trust in others.
(13:39):
And so the business coach thenhelped me and put practices in
place for me to delegate tasksand then measure.
You know what?
What was a measurable outcomeof that task that you delegated?
And he would say a task done,80% is 100% success because 80%
(14:03):
of it got done by someone elseother than yourself.
Bill Gilliland (14:08):
Yeah, it's 80-20 rule.
Yep, got it.
Yeah, that's right.
So, yeah, I've always said that.
Like, when do you turnsomething over to somebody?
Well, when they can do it 80percent as well as you, can, you
probably give it to them, andthen, and then they'll they'll
surpass you sooner or later.
They'll end up doing it betterthan you at some point, because
(14:28):
you're you're I mean as theowner of a business you're here,
here, here, here, all over theplace.
So that's right.
So you learned quickly.
Well, first of all, I think oneof the things, one of the big
lessons that I hear from you isdon't try to do this stuff by
yourself.
Find people who've done it, orfind mentors, find people who
(14:53):
can help.
Do ask questions.
I have to say this all the timeIn school, we're taught to do
our own work, and that reallydoesn't translate well to
business.
Do you know what I mean?
I mean, it's like don't askother people for help, except I
say that in you know, band andsports and, uh, lab, that's
(15:18):
about it.
Everything else is everythingelse, is all individual work and
so.
So, yeah, but what you've donewell is you've, you've searched,
you've you've said well, hangon, something's got to change
here.
Houston Trim (15:29):
I need to go talk to somebody yeah yeah, and I
mean, and those things don'tcome without hardship I mean you
know you talk about thatgenerally yeah, they don't, you
know, no one tells you.
They say go run a business, oh,you're great at that, go run a
business.
What they don't see is that,yeah, you're, you're a good
carpenter, you're a good finishguy, you can do tile.
(15:51):
You can do anything right, youcan paint cars.
So you go out and start thisshop and you're like you know
what I can do tile, you can doanything, right, you can paint
cars.
So you go out and start thisshop and you're like you know
what I can do is I can work.
So I put in 12 hours in the day, right.
And then you go home and yourealize the work isn't done and
now you have all the work to dothat you should have been doing
during the day to keep thebusiness running.
(16:11):
Now you have to do it at nightand so you're home after 12
hours.
Your family thinks they're goingto see it.
You got to sit down and thenyou got to work more and you
continue this path of justworking yourself to death until
you either one, you succeed ortwo.
You say you know what I'm donewith this.
You know and and as many peoplehave told me, you know there's
(16:36):
there's good craftsmen.
There's good business owners.
There's not a lot of goodcraftsmen that come become good
business owners without findinga team that can support them.
And so for me, you know, I meanI watched my kids.
My kids have grown up, I mean,thankfully, I've been able to be
at most things, but Idefinitely, after the pandemic,
(16:58):
I definitely missed a lotbecause we had increased our
workload and it changed the waythe environment was, and so
there'd be times I would barelysee my wife, you know, and she'd
be like am I going to get tosee you this weekend?
And I'm like I've got to sitdown and get this estimate done
and I've got to get this done.
And I'm like I've got to sitdown and get this estimate done
and I've got to get this done.
And so, ultimately, I ended upin in 22, uh, in 2022, um
(17:22):
purchase or or subscribing to aproject management software that
would allow me to buildestimates, save them and then
recall them to create anestimate for another job.
Basically, you know, kind ofgetting some of that autonomy to
make it a little better.
But yeah but you know thatcreated another hardship because
(17:45):
of my background in estimating.
I was really good at estimatingso I could estimate a lot, but
then ultimately I had more workthan I still can do.
Bill Gilliland (17:56):
Yeah, so yeah, at some point, yeah, I, you know
, I see it all the time.
Like you know people, somepeople, generally what it comes
down to is there's two things.
There's sales and operations,and at some point you know the
general thing, you know a personstarts a business and they're
(18:16):
kind of good at both.
Right, and you know, or theyhave to be to make it work, and
then they're more adept at salesor they're more adept at
operations.
And then so you either hire oryou have a partner or something
to do both.
And I'm not saying, you know,finance and admin is another
thing that you got to have, butthat's usually outsourced or
whatever.
And then at some point you gotto give it all up.
(18:37):
If you actually want to run thebusiness.
I always say you got to give upcontrol to get control.
Yes, so it's a kind of a coollesson that uh that, that that
you learn.
Here's a question for you,though Do you reckon and I don't
know if it's true do you reckon?
I hope some people learn fromyour stuff, but most of the
(18:59):
people I know they almost haveto go through that 80 hour thing
to figure out, like, how tolike, did they got to do
something different?
Houston Trim (19:08):
yeah, oh yeah I.
I think that if I think that'sone of the hardships that you
have to experience, um, in orderto see where exactly things
could be, you know, um, and ifthat, with that being said, I
mean I gave up the 80 hourworking in the field pulling
drywall, mud framing, and now Isit, you know 30, some hours
(19:32):
behind a computer and I tell,tell my guys all the time like I
love to do the work.
Right, that's, it's my absolutefavorite thing is to do the
work.
But if I've got a team of sevenguys that also want to do the
work, someone has to step awayand put themselves in front of a
computer or at least a notepadin an office to focus.
Bill Gilliland (19:55):
Yeah, I mean, at some point you'll be able to
give that up too.
I mean you know that's.
I mean you could probably do itnow would be my guess.
If you've already gotten thatfar or somewhere close, you may
not want to.
I mean, I've got a.
No, I'm serious, I've got aroofer client, you know.
He went from.
You know, when we first startedworking together he was eight
(20:17):
employees and now he's 75 or so,you know.
So I mean he doesn't need toshow up Like he's got a GM, I
mean it's –'s we've you know.
And and, by the way, he was aguy I worked with too.
He came off the roof and thatwe made him a great salesperson.
He ran sales.
Now he's running the wholecompany.
So it's you know.
(20:37):
But you know, every once in awhile he'll go help a crew
because he likes the route.
He doesn't want to do it everyday now, but he he likes to roof
.
You know he probably is goingto it every day now, but he
likes to roof.
You know he probably is going tochoose a nicer day.
He's probably not.
You know, roofing is like oneof those things.
You know what I mean.
I mean it's usually cold or hot.
It's never usually a nice, youknow he'll probably pick a nice
(21:00):
day and go do it.
But you know, every once in awhile he'll show up on a job
site and you know, help them orat least talk to them or at
least hang out with the crew,you know, and see what's going
on.
Because he's like you, he likesthe work, the work's fun.
Houston Trim (21:10):
Yeah.
Bill Gilliland (21:12):
So yeah, so the deal.
Well, let me I can do a littlebit of a round robin.
You know we have this taglinethat says BE, epic and it's an
acronym.
So let me get your thoughts onthe five pieces of BEPIC.
So the B we say is bring theenergy.
What's your thoughts on?
(21:32):
Just sort of quick thoughts onlike energy and what role it
plays in building a business.
Houston Trim (21:38):
Yeah, it's a very important role.
You are the fuel that your teamneeds in order to really start
their day to think about theirweeks ahead, and so if you come
in and you don't have thatenergy, you just shut down your
entire team for a week.
Bill Gilliland (21:57):
Yeah, that's so true.
It's so true.
You mean Red Bull and MountainDew doesn't do it.
You know those crews.
I see the crews all the timethey stop in they get a red bull
or something.
It's seven in the morning.
I'm like what in the world?
Uh, yeah, it's awesome now.
Uh, so the e's education.
So what role does educationplay?
Houston Trim (22:19):
uh, for us, education is huge.
Um, it's one of the things thatour team leaders have the
ability to pull pull the guys tothe side if, at any point, they
feel that the knowledge isn'tthere to complete a task or on
something new.
The first thing I want them todo is think about is everybody
educated?
(22:39):
To do this project, we broughtin manufacturers, reps for
multiple different products tobe taught directly from the
manufacturer, and so, withoutthat education, all the way up
to my part traveling next weekfor some more education.
I mean, if we don't use that asa basis in this industry, we're
(22:59):
just going to create a teamthat will potentially fail in
the future.
Bill Gilliland (23:04):
Yeah, 100%.
You got to be learning all thetime Planning.
I mean I know this is big foryou, so planning, what's your
thoughts on planning?
Houston Trim (23:13):
Yeah, planning is the number one thing.
We do an honesty meeting hereat our shop every week and
recently it was on lack of plan,lack of scheduling, and so that
really comes back to medelegating those tasks to the
team leaders so that way theyplan, but it's given them the
space to plan instead of sayingwhy aren't you at the job at 8
(23:37):
am.
You know they need to maybe getto the job and sit down an hour
and actually schedule out andplan their weeks ahead.
So that way they, that wayeverybody is, is in that realm
of knowing.
Yeah.
Bill Gilliland (23:51):
Yeah, no, I like it.
I like it.
What about inspiration?
The I's inspiration.
Houston Trim (23:56):
So inspiration, you know, I try to give.
You know, we've got severalyoung guys on the team that are
learning and and just try to,you know, teach them.
Hey, there was a day when Ididn't know what I was looking.
Try to, you know, teach them.
Hey, there was a day when Ididn't know what I was looking
at either.
You know, mind you, I was 13and you're 25, but, either way,
there was a day, right, and nowyou're looking at me operate a
(24:17):
company with multiple crewsrunning 10 jobs at a time.
You know, yeah, let me.
What do I need to do to inspireyou?
Bill Gilliland (24:26):
You know, Right, yeah, yeah, no, I love it.
Yeah.
One of my mentors says be aninspiration.
He says don't go look forinspiration, just be an
inspiration.
Houston Trim (24:36):
Be the inspiration .
Bill Gilliland (24:37):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
That's what you just said too.
So, which is great, c standsfor commitment, and obviously
you're you gotta be committed to.
I mean, obviously you'recommitted to.
If you were working 80 hours aweek, so, um, you gotta be
committed in a different way now.
So thoughts on commitment.
Houston Trim (24:54):
Yeah, commitment um is huge.
You know, if we're notcommitted to our company and we
have employees, then we're goingto let them down.
Maybe not today, you know.
Maybe we've got enough work toget us through Um.
Eventually there's going to bea letdown and if they see a lack
of commitment from the owner ofthe company, how much will they
(25:14):
be committed to seeing it intothe future?
Bill Gilliland (25:17):
Right, yeah, yeah, it really is a top down
right.
You got to lead from the front.
Houston Trim (25:24):
Yeah, I mean absolutely, yeah.
Bill Gilliland (25:27):
Well, let me ask you one more question, and the
question is and I, you can use atimeframe you want, but I'll
give you one and you can changeit if you want.
But the question is what do youwish you?
What do you know now that youwish you had known before you
went into business?
Houston Trim (25:49):
I wish I had listened to the people that
worked within the fields that Ihad spoken to about what I was
going to do.
Percent of them all said learnhow to delegate, not do it
(26:14):
yourself, and to make sure thatyour family is of high priority.
Bill Gilliland (26:17):
well, you've done that.
It just took you a little whileto get there.
Yep, yeah, yeah, I mean, youknow it's, everything comes in
its own time, right?
I mean, it's it, yeah, it, it.
Well, you're obviously meant tobe doing this and you're
(26:37):
obviously smart and you, you're,you're, you've taken the
lessons.
Well, and congratulations onyour success thus far and thank
you.
Yeah, I think there's there's apretty pretty long runway ahead
of you.
I think so for sure.
Yeah, that's, that's that'sexciting.
There's a pretty long runwayahead of you, I think, for sure.
Yeah, that's exciting.
Houston Trim (26:56):
So any last thoughts or anything else that
you just got to tell somebody.
The biggest thing that I thinkI would say is don't be afraid
of change, because if you'regoing to grow and scale a
company to grow and scale acompany it's going to require a
lot of difficult decisions thatwill change you, the way you
think and the way that abusiness operates.
(27:16):
And I think, yeah, I think, ifyou're afraid of change, you
just won't, you just won't grow,you'll just sit there and work
80 hours a week.
Bill Gilliland (27:27):
Yeah, and there you know there are people who
probably are probably okay withthat, but you know that they
don't.
They probably also don't havefive kids, so yeah, yeah, yeah
yeah yeah, and you know there's,there's, there's a price to pay
for all of that.
Houston Trim (27:44):
So yes, they're certainly, yeah, yeah certainly
so cool.
Bill Gilliland (27:46):
Well, look, thanks for thanks for this.
This has been awesome.
I really appreciate you beingwith us.
Houston Trim (27:51):
Yeah, it's good to see you.
Bill Gilliland (27:53):
Yeah, it's good seeing you yeah, I appreciate it
and until next time, all thebest.
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode
of Epic Entrepreneurs.
I'm here with Houston Trim.
Hi, Houston, how are you doingtoday?
Doing great, and yourselfExcellent, excellent, excellent.
So let's jump right in.
Tell us a little bit about yourbusiness and how and why you
got into business sort of theorigin story here into business
(00:29):
sort of the origin story here.
Houston Trim (00:30):
Uh, so my company in of x renovations um, stemmed
from a lifelong, uh just abilityto work in the trades of my dad
, help operate his company.
When I met my wife, we moved usand our five kids to asheville,
and so we she had asked me whenwe moved to asheville what I
want to do, and I said I want togo back into the renovation
business, and but this time Iwanted to do it my way.
(00:50):
And so my son and my wifehelped come up with InnoVex,
which stands for innovation andexcellence, and our goal was to
change the way people live in intheir homes, and so by
providing quality in-houserenovations, we were able to
(01:10):
keep the details at theforefront for everyone's
renovation projects and to justmake things better.
Bill Gilliland (01:21):
Got it.
So was your dad.
Did he have a renovationcompany too, or was it a
different kind of trade?
Houston Trim (01:28):
He did.
He started out actually.
He left a career, he movedutility buildings for a local
contractor and one day he's likeI'm tired of working 18 hours a
day not seeing my family, andanother contractor friend of his
said, hey, I'll teach you howto do what I do.
And so it was born that my dad,you know, became his own
(01:52):
contractor and started workingon houses, and I think that was
when I was about 12 or 13 yearsold and so watched him learn up
until I was 18.
He was doing all the projectshimself and I had been working
with him since I was 13 yeah, soyou picked up a hammer pretty
early in life.
Bill Gilliland (02:13):
I did, yeah, yeah, I got it, so you learned
from the ground up.
That's cool.
So what prompted the move toashville like?
What was that about?
Houston Trim (02:21):
uh, so my wife?
Uh, we were dating at the timebut she had just finished PA
school down in Charlotte andlanded a job with Mission
Hospital, got it, so it was setshe was moving.
Bill Gilliland (02:35):
So yeah, if you wanted to stay hang out with her
, you probably needed to comealong, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and your dealis and you can do I mean, you
know you can do remodeling orreconstruction anywhere, so
that's that's, that's awesome,so Great.
So I guess the question is andwhat are the things?
(02:57):
Is I mean what?
What are some of the challengesthat you've had to overcome and
maybe what are some of thelearnings that you had along the
way that you've had to overcome, and maybe what are some of the
learnings that you had alongthe way.
Houston Trim (03:06):
So for me, as I started in renovations with my
dad, I learned how to do thework right, learned how to make
things nice, really to buildsomething out of nothing to, you
know, change everything aboutsomething.
So, with the hammer, tools,everything, I was well equipped,
learned the skills and was ableto do everything.
(03:30):
But the biggest challenge thatI had to overcome is that once I
started, my dad went back towork.
My dad, when I was roughly 21,.
He was tired of running acompany, said here you run the
company, but I had zero businessbackground.
I didn't know what profitoverhead anything like that was,
(03:50):
and so people would say justadd 10%.
And so we went down that roadfor a long time and luckily we
were able to stay afloat and dothings long through the
recession of 2008.
But later on down the road,lacking the business side was
(04:15):
really the pickle, and so Iended up stopping working with
my dad, going back into heavyconstruction.
Going back into heavyconstruction.
But then fast forward to 2014,late 2014,.
My wife and I moved toAsheville.
She says what do you want to do?
I said start a renovationcompany.
(04:35):
So when we got here.
I knew I was missing some stepsbefore I started a company and
so where you get those steps aguy had taught me a long time
ago if you want to learnsomething, you find somebody
that does that and you go thereand ask if you can learn, and he
would say you go there andoffer to work for free to gain
(04:57):
the knowledge, which is far morevaluable than the money up
front.
And so, talking to a guy inAsheville, friend of mine knew a
contractor that knew a companythat needed an estimator and so
I went into estimating for acommercial company and that guy
taught me how and why you haveprofit and overhead.
(05:21):
You know what?
What are the rules?
Bill Gilliland (05:24):
Yeah, what are?
Houston Trim (05:24):
the rules to make money yeah, yeah, yeah yeah and
so where I would feel I remembertrying to tack on 10 to a
project and feeling like myheartstrings were like being
pulled, like you can't do thatto somebody right, like the
reality is just this is how manytwo by fours, this is how much
this and how much labor.
And so you know, once we satdown, I mean he walked me
(05:48):
through projects that we didstart to finish.
He walked me through projectsthat clients bought the
materials for, and he reallystepped up to show me exactly
why a company has to know theiroverhead in order to work
through their profit.
But also, how do you navigatethat when something does come up
(06:11):
like, oh yeah, well, I boughtall my flooring.
How do you do that?
Because those are products thatare still managed by the
company, and so my biggesthurdle was understanding that
you know not the estimating.
I had that down pat, like I knewhow to calculate.
I had been doing it for so long.
But you know that overhead andprofit is how the company can
(06:35):
operate.
It's how fuel gets put in thetruck, insurance gets paid.
You know all these differentaspects of the project where, in
the past, if we miscut a two byfour, I ate it.
It was like oh, my mistake.
Bill Gilliland (06:48):
Right, yeah, yeah, all right.
So you found a mentor, and thenwhat?
You decided to pull the plugand get started.
Houston Trim (06:57):
Yep.
So I said to my wife.
I said when I moved toAsheville there's no way you can
just walk into a new town andstart a company.
You have to know people.
You've got to get to knowpeople and so, thankfully,
through that estimation job, Iwas also one of their project
managers.
So I met a lot of commercialcontractors in the area and when
(07:23):
I decided to leave the companya year later, I had expanded
their bit.
After he taught me these thingsin the first few weeks of
working for him, he also taughtme that there were software out
there that helped calculatematerials and things like that.
So we grew him to a point wheretheir company was too big.
They didn't want to be that big.
So in turn, I had startedlooking like okay, I want to get
into residential and I've runacross somebody I knew at the
(07:47):
gym they're working with anothercontractor and they felt like
they were getting shafted and sothey asked me to take a look at
the project.
And September 2016,.
I quit my job as an estimatorand, within one week, signed a
contract to do a duplexrenovation that would pay my
salary that I was making in fourmonths instead of a year.
Bill Gilliland (08:10):
Right, since you knew your numbers, since you
knew your numbers at this pointbecause you knew how to
calculate them.
Well, I mean you got to learn,right, I mean I remember you
know, I remember early in mydays when somebody just sat me
down and showed me how to do.
It was actually the same kindof thing a takeoff to figure out
, like how much do we reallyneed to charge for this thing?
(08:31):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,absolutely yeah.
Houston Trim (08:35):
Yeah, and there's.
You know, when I started doingthis like when I was early, I
mean when I started within thelate nineties, early two
thousands, we don't have theresources Then you couldn't just
jump on Google and see if youwere messing up.
You know, you, you, you eitheryou either realize that you
didn't have any money in yourwallet.
Bill Gilliland (08:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
And the truth is, just addingon 10% in construction is not
going to get it done.
Right yeah it's not going towork.
I mean you're going to be handof it's, just not.
Yeah, it's going to be tough.
Houston Trim (09:10):
Yeah, exactly, I mean that's the current argument
, with this insurance work rightnow.
We're dealing with HurricaneHelene at the moment.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I meanthat's the current argument, you
know, with this insurance workright now.
You know we're dealing withHurricane Helene at the moment.
Bill Gilliland (09:18):
Yeah.
Houston Trim (09:19):
And so you know it makes it a little bit tougher.
Bill Gilliland (09:22):
Yeah, the insurance companies are trying
to do their job.
They don't want it, they wantto pay as little as they can.
But you know, when the theowners are caught in the middle,
you're negotiating on theirbehalf, trying to them hey look,
this is what it costs to dothis job, and so, yeah, so
there's a, there's a mismatchbetween what's going on.
So, um, I remember back in theday we had a house in hurricane
(09:45):
hugo and it and the insurancecompanies there were just
writing blank checks.
They it was a different,different time they just came
around said how would we?
Okay, how much is it?
And we they gave us the moneyand it wasn't, it was, you know,
there was no argument.
So now they're like this is atotally different environment.
Houston Trim (10:01):
So right, the internet has definitely changed
it it's unbelievable.
Bill Gilliland (10:06):
Let well, let's okay.
So what have been your like biglessons, like what's been a big
lesson or two for you?
Houston Trim (10:14):
uh, for me, and operating a company has been, uh
, letting go of control, um, youknow, learning to delegate to
others, um, and also trusting inothers.
You know that that there arepeople out there that can take
things off your plate as abusiness owner.
Bill Gilliland (10:35):
So is that just something you got organically,
or, you know, just figured itout or what happened?
Houston Trim (10:41):
No, I ended up sitting down at the builder
international builder show acouple of years ago and I
remember thinking can't get awayfrom the work machine I had
created.
I was working 60, 70, 80 hoursa week, you know, constantly,
all year, With five kids.
It was a little bit difficult.
(11:01):
They were growing up without us.
And finally I remember going tothe Builders Show.
It was February.
I'd had employees that had beenwith me for years, you know.
They were like you're taking ontoo much, you're doing too much
.
Um, it's hard to keep up.
And so that was in likeNovember, fast forward to
(11:23):
February.
I was just beat.
I wasn't real sure what to do.
And uh, a guy that I knew thatoperated a company that mimicked
what I wanted my company tolook like.
I reached out to him and we satdown at the builder show.
At this time I didn't know thathe was a business coach.
(11:44):
All I knew is that his companyreflected what I wanted my
company to look like and he saidyou know, are you how much do
you want to change?
Right, Like, if we're sittinghere today and we just want to
nonchalantly talk about change,that's fine.
But he said, if you really wantto change.
You'll put money where yourmouth is, he said.
(12:05):
You know, if you want to moveforward, I'll work with you for
three months.
We'll do week to week one onone session.
Three months We'll doweek-to-week one-on-one sessions
.
We'll set hard goals and wewill achieve those goals if we
stay on it.
And I remember handing him mycredit card, thinking I don't
(12:26):
even know what I'm doing.
But the one thing that I knewis that continuing to work 80
hours a week continually wasjust going to shut down my
business, because eventually Iwas going to burn out.
Bill Gilliland (12:39):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, it was a great decisionto give it a shot, to know that
you needed to do somethingdifferent.
Houston Trim (12:48):
Right.
Bill Gilliland (12:50):
That's right.
So essentially through thatprocess you learn that you can't
so essentially, through thatprocess, you learn that you
can't.
Houston Trim (12:58):
You got to trust somebody.
Yeah, yeah, If we're trying togrow which is, you know,
ultimately, what I learnedcoming into the Asheville market
we are a small area, you know.
It seems like it's a huge city,but the core structure of the
people doing the work is verysmall, and so what we were
finding is more and more peopleneed help as people are moving
(13:19):
here and there just wasn'tenough contract to do the work.
And I was taking on the work.
I'd work day and night,weekends, try to help as many
people as I could, but what Iwas doing is I was leaving my
family in the dust, and so youknow how do you help more people
, right, Like there's only oneof me and one of you.
We have to trust in others.
(13:39):
And so the business coach thenhelped me and put practices in
place for me to delegate tasksand then measure.
You know what?
What was a measurable outcomeof that task that you delegated?
And he would say a task done,80% is 100% success because 80%
(14:03):
of it got done by someone elseother than yourself.
Bill Gilliland (14:08):
Yeah, it's 80-20 rule.
Yep, got it.
Yeah, that's right.
So, yeah, I've always said that.
Like, when do you turnsomething over to somebody?
Well, when they can do it 80percent as well as you, can, you
probably give it to them, andthen, and then they'll they'll
surpass you sooner or later.
They'll end up doing it betterthan you at some point, because
(14:28):
you're you're I mean as theowner of a business you're here,
here, here, here, all over theplace.
So that's right.
So you learned quickly.
Well, first of all, I think oneof the things, one of the big
lessons that I hear from you isdon't try to do this stuff by
yourself.
Find people who've done it, orfind mentors, find people who
(14:53):
can help.
Do ask questions.
I have to say this all the timeIn school, we're taught to do
our own work, and that reallydoesn't translate well to
business.
Do you know what I mean?
I mean, it's like don't askother people for help, except I
say that in you know, band andsports and, uh, lab, that's
(15:18):
about it.
Everything else is everythingelse, is all individual work and
so.
So, yeah, but what you've donewell is you've, you've searched,
you've you've said well, hangon, something's got to change
here.
Houston Trim (15:29):
I need to go talk to somebody yeah yeah, and I
mean, and those things don'tcome without hardship I mean you
know you talk about thatgenerally yeah, they don't, you
know, no one tells you.
They say go run a business, oh,you're great at that, go run a
business.
What they don't see is that,yeah, you're, you're a good
carpenter, you're a good finishguy, you can do tile.
(15:51):
You can do anything right, youcan paint cars.
So you go out and start thisshop and you're like you know
what I can do tile, you can doanything, right, you can paint
cars.
So you go out and start thisshop and you're like you know
what I can do is I can work.
So I put in 12 hours in the day, right.
And then you go home and yourealize the work isn't done and
now you have all the work to dothat you should have been doing
during the day to keep thebusiness running.
(16:11):
Now you have to do it at nightand so you're home after 12
hours.
Your family thinks they're goingto see it.
You got to sit down and thenyou got to work more and you
continue this path of justworking yourself to death until
you either one, you succeed ortwo.
You say you know what I'm donewith this.
You know and and as many peoplehave told me, you know there's
(16:36):
there's good craftsmen.
There's good business owners.
There's not a lot of goodcraftsmen that come become good
business owners without findinga team that can support them.
And so for me, you know, I meanI watched my kids.
My kids have grown up, I mean,thankfully, I've been able to be
at most things, but Idefinitely, after the pandemic,
(16:58):
I definitely missed a lotbecause we had increased our
workload and it changed the waythe environment was, and so
there'd be times I would barelysee my wife, you know, and she'd
be like am I going to get tosee you this weekend?
And I'm like I've got to sitdown and get this estimate done
and I've got to get this done.
And I'm like I've got to sitdown and get this estimate done
and I've got to get this done.
And so, ultimately, I ended upin in 22, uh, in 2022, um
(17:22):
purchase or or subscribing to aproject management software that
would allow me to buildestimates, save them and then
recall them to create anestimate for another job.
Basically, you know, kind ofgetting some of that autonomy to
make it a little better.
But yeah but you know thatcreated another hardship because
(17:45):
of my background in estimating.
I was really good at estimatingso I could estimate a lot, but
then ultimately I had more workthan I still can do.
Bill Gilliland (17:56):
Yeah, so yeah, at some point, yeah, I, you know
, I see it all the time.
Like you know people, somepeople, generally what it comes
down to is there's two things.
There's sales and operations,and at some point you know the
general thing, you know a personstarts a business and they're
(18:16):
kind of good at both.
Right, and you know, or theyhave to be to make it work, and
then they're more adept at salesor they're more adept at
operations.
And then so you either hire oryou have a partner or something
to do both.
And I'm not saying, you know,finance and admin is another
thing that you got to have, butthat's usually outsourced or
whatever.
And then at some point you gotto give it all up.
(18:37):
If you actually want to run thebusiness.
I always say you got to give upcontrol to get control.
Yes, so it's a kind of a coollesson that uh that, that that
you learn.
Here's a question for you,though Do you reckon and I don't
know if it's true do you reckon?
I hope some people learn fromyour stuff, but most of the
(18:59):
people I know they almost haveto go through that 80 hour thing
to figure out, like, how tolike, did they got to do
something different?
Houston Trim (19:08):
yeah, oh yeah I.
I think that if I think that'sone of the hardships that you
have to experience, um, in orderto see where exactly things
could be, you know, um, and ifthat, with that being said, I
mean I gave up the 80 hourworking in the field pulling
drywall, mud framing, and now Isit, you know 30, some hours
(19:32):
behind a computer and I tell,tell my guys all the time like I
love to do the work.
Right, that's, it's my absolutefavorite thing is to do the
work.
But if I've got a team of sevenguys that also want to do the
work, someone has to step awayand put themselves in front of a
computer or at least a notepadin an office to focus.
Bill Gilliland (19:55):
Yeah, I mean, at some point you'll be able to
give that up too.
I mean you know that's.
I mean you could probably do itnow would be my guess.
If you've already gotten thatfar or somewhere close, you may
not want to.
I mean, I've got a.
No, I'm serious, I've got aroofer client, you know.
He went from.
You know, when we first startedworking together he was eight
(20:17):
employees and now he's 75 or so,you know.
So I mean he doesn't need toshow up Like he's got a GM, I
mean it's –'s we've you know.
And and, by the way, he was aguy I worked with too.
He came off the roof and thatwe made him a great salesperson.
He ran sales.
Now he's running the wholecompany.
So it's you know.
(20:37):
But you know, every once in awhile he'll go help a crew
because he likes the route.
He doesn't want to do it everyday now, but he he likes to roof
.
You know he probably is goingto it every day now, but he
likes to roof.
You know he probably is going tochoose a nicer day.
He's probably not.
You know, roofing is like oneof those things.
You know what I mean.
I mean it's usually cold or hot.
It's never usually a nice, youknow he'll probably pick a nice
(21:00):
day and go do it.
But you know, every once in awhile he'll show up on a job
site and you know, help them orat least talk to them or at
least hang out with the crew,you know, and see what's going
on.
Because he's like you, he likesthe work, the work's fun.
Houston Trim (21:10):
Yeah.
Bill Gilliland (21:12):
So yeah, so the deal.
Well, let me I can do a littlebit of a round robin.
You know we have this taglinethat says BE, epic and it's an
acronym.
So let me get your thoughts onthe five pieces of BEPIC.
So the B we say is bring theenergy.
What's your thoughts on?
(21:32):
Just sort of quick thoughts onlike energy and what role it
plays in building a business.
Houston Trim (21:38):
Yeah, it's a very important role.
You are the fuel that your teamneeds in order to really start
their day to think about theirweeks ahead, and so if you come
in and you don't have thatenergy, you just shut down your
entire team for a week.
Bill Gilliland (21:57):
Yeah, that's so true.
It's so true.
You mean Red Bull and MountainDew doesn't do it.
You know those crews.
I see the crews all the timethey stop in they get a red bull
or something.
It's seven in the morning.
I'm like what in the world?
Uh, yeah, it's awesome now.
Uh, so the e's education.
So what role does educationplay?
Houston Trim (22:19):
uh, for us, education is huge.
Um, it's one of the things thatour team leaders have the
ability to pull pull the guys tothe side if, at any point, they
feel that the knowledge isn'tthere to complete a task or on
something new.
The first thing I want them todo is think about is everybody
educated?
(22:39):
To do this project, we broughtin manufacturers, reps for
multiple different products tobe taught directly from the
manufacturer, and so, withoutthat education, all the way up
to my part traveling next weekfor some more education.
I mean, if we don't use that asa basis in this industry, we're
(22:59):
just going to create a teamthat will potentially fail in
the future.
Bill Gilliland (23:04):
Yeah, 100%.
You got to be learning all thetime Planning.
I mean I know this is big foryou, so planning, what's your
thoughts on planning?
Houston Trim (23:13):
Yeah, planning is the number one thing.
We do an honesty meeting hereat our shop every week and
recently it was on lack of plan,lack of scheduling, and so that
really comes back to medelegating those tasks to the
team leaders so that way theyplan, but it's given them the
space to plan instead of sayingwhy aren't you at the job at 8
(23:37):
am.
You know they need to maybe getto the job and sit down an hour
and actually schedule out andplan their weeks ahead.
So that way they, that wayeverybody is, is in that realm
of knowing.
Yeah.
Bill Gilliland (23:51):
Yeah, no, I like it.
I like it.
What about inspiration?
The I's inspiration.
Houston Trim (23:56):
So inspiration, you know, I try to give.
You know, we've got severalyoung guys on the team that are
learning and and just try to,you know, teach them.
Hey, there was a day when Ididn't know what I was looking.
Try to, you know, teach them.
Hey, there was a day when Ididn't know what I was looking
at either.
You know, mind you, I was 13and you're 25, but, either way,
there was a day, right, and nowyou're looking at me operate a
(24:17):
company with multiple crewsrunning 10 jobs at a time.
You know, yeah, let me.
What do I need to do to inspireyou?
Bill Gilliland (24:26):
You know, Right, yeah, yeah, no, I love it.
Yeah.
One of my mentors says be aninspiration.
He says don't go look forinspiration, just be an
inspiration.
Houston Trim (24:36):
Be the inspiration .
Bill Gilliland (24:37):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
That's what you just said too.
So, which is great, c standsfor commitment, and obviously
you're you gotta be committed to.
I mean, obviously you'recommitted to.
If you were working 80 hours aweek, so, um, you gotta be
committed in a different way now.
So thoughts on commitment.
Houston Trim (24:54):
Yeah, commitment um is huge.
You know, if we're notcommitted to our company and we
have employees, then we're goingto let them down.
Maybe not today, you know.
Maybe we've got enough work toget us through Um.
Eventually there's going to bea letdown and if they see a lack
of commitment from the owner ofthe company, how much will they
(25:14):
be committed to seeing it intothe future?
Bill Gilliland (25:17):
Right, yeah, yeah, it really is a top down
right.
You got to lead from the front.
Houston Trim (25:24):
Yeah, I mean absolutely, yeah.
Bill Gilliland (25:27):
Well, let me ask you one more question, and the
question is and I, you can use atimeframe you want, but I'll
give you one and you can changeit if you want.
But the question is what do youwish you?
What do you know now that youwish you had known before you
went into business?
Houston Trim (25:49):
I wish I had listened to the people that
worked within the fields that Ihad spoken to about what I was
going to do.
Percent of them all said learnhow to delegate, not do it
(26:14):
yourself, and to make sure thatyour family is of high priority.
Bill Gilliland (26:17):
well, you've done that.
It just took you a little whileto get there.
Yep, yeah, yeah, I mean, youknow it's, everything comes in
its own time, right?
I mean, it's it, yeah, it, it.
Well, you're obviously meant tobe doing this and you're
(26:37):
obviously smart and you, you're,you're, you've taken the
lessons.
Well, and congratulations onyour success thus far and thank
you.
Yeah, I think there's there's apretty pretty long runway ahead
of you.
I think so for sure.
Yeah, that's, that's that'sexciting.
There's a pretty long runwayahead of you, I think, for sure.
Yeah, that's exciting.
Houston Trim (26:56):
So any last thoughts or anything else that
you just got to tell somebody.
The biggest thing that I thinkI would say is don't be afraid
of change, because if you'regoing to grow and scale a
company to grow and scale acompany it's going to require a
lot of difficult decisions thatwill change you, the way you
think and the way that abusiness operates.
(27:16):
And I think, yeah, I think, ifyou're afraid of change, you
just won't, you just won't grow,you'll just sit there and work
80 hours a week.
Bill Gilliland (27:27):
Yeah, and there you know there are people who
probably are probably okay withthat, but you know that they
don't.
They probably also don't havefive kids, so yeah, yeah, yeah
yeah yeah, and you know there's,there's, there's a price to pay
for all of that.
Houston Trim (27:44):
So yes, they're certainly, yeah, yeah certainly
so cool.
Bill Gilliland (27:46):
Well, look, thanks for thanks for this.
This has been awesome.
I really appreciate you beingwith us.
Houston Trim (27:51):
Yeah, it's good to see you.
Bill Gilliland (27:53):
Yeah, it's good seeing you yeah, I appreciate it
and until next time, all thebest.
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