December 8, 2025 • 20 mins
Growth isn’t luck; it’s a set of choices made on clear numbers, the right people, and the right capital. Cliff sits down with Roberta McCullough, COO of Institute Capital, to unpack how a Community Development Financial Institution helps founders in Western North Carolina and beyond move from hustle to healthy scale. Roberta breaks down what CDFIs actually do, why pairing money with technical assistance changes outcomes, and how grants can complement loans when communities are recovering, including businesses impacted by Hurricane Helene in Asheville.
We get practical about finances. Roberta explains why looking at your books once a year is too late, how a simple quarterly spreadsheet can reveal true profit, and when “good debt” makes sense for equipment, a second location, or inventory that drives measurable returns. The conversation dives into team building: hiring for cultural fit as much as skill, finding people who thrive in your operating style, and using delegation to make the business stronger than any single person. You’ll hear candid insights on boundaries, rest, and the calendar habits that keep leaders sharp.
If you’re aiming to double revenue, this conversation shows how to map the path: validate demand, model margins, align capital to productive assets, and tap free support many owners overlook. With a downtown Asheville office and bilingual outreach, Institute Capital is building access for entrepreneurs across WNC while pursuing additional grant funding to speed recovery. Listen for actionable steps, local resources, and a mindset shift that turns growth into a plan you can execute.
If this conversation helps you think differently about finance, hiring, or scale, follow the show, share it with a founder who needs it, and leave a quick review so others can discover it.
Guest info:
Phone: (919) 956-8889, X3320
Email: rmccullough@TheInstituteNC.org
Thanks for Listening. You may contact me or our team at https://billgilliland.biz/
All the best!
Bill
Thanks for listening. Please hit the subscribe button, leave us a 5 star review, and share this podcast. You can reach me at williamgilliland@actioncoach.com or at https://billgilliland.biz/
All the best!
Bill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
All right.
Welcome to this week's episodeof Epic Entrepreneurs.
I'm Cliff McCray, filling in forBill Gillilan with your local
business training and coachingfirm, Action Coach Business
Growth Partners.
I'm excited to have Roberta.
Is that McCullough?
McCullough.
McCullough.
Okay.
Just want to make sure I saythat.
All right.
McCullough with Institute NC onas the focus for our Epic
(01:02):
Entrepreneurs podcast today.
So, Roberta, please introduceyourself and tell us a little
bit about yourself and yourcompany and what primary
products or services you offerthe community.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
All right.
Thank you so much, Cliff, forhaving me.
I'm very excited and waiting onthis moment.
So my name again is RobertaMcCullough, and I work for an
organization called the NationalInstitute of Minority and
Economic Development.
Institute Capital, which is whatwe'll focus on this morning, is
the lending affiliate of thatorganization.
As for me personally, I was bornand raised in Asheville, North
(01:36):
Carolina.
Still have a lot of friendsthere and associates.
So I'm very excited to be ableto share just more of what I'm
doing.
Some people know, some don't.
So in terms of Institute Capitalor ICAP, as we call ourselves,
we are what's called a communitydevelopment financial
institution or CDFI for short.
(01:57):
There's a lot of acronyms,nonprofit world.
We are a nonprofit organization,and our focus is lending and
providing some grants to uhsmall businesses, you know,
across our particular footprint,which we'll just focus on,
obviously, Western NorthCarolina this morning.
But we actually lend in fivestates.
So, and we also lend to uhaffordable housing developers uh
(02:19):
to help them get started withnew projects.
So have a lot to offer in in thespace that we are gonna be
talking about this morning,which is you know, economic uh
recovery, you know, economicdevelopment, community
development is what uh I want tofocus on this morning.
So that's a a tidbit of whatwe're gonna talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Perfect, perfect.
I love that.
That's a great intro.
All right.
So if you had to start your bit,you know, from square one in
your business, what would you dodifferently?
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
So for someone that's starting a business, um,
I mean, it's it's businessesstart different ways.
Some of them start literally asa hobby and they realize, hey,
this is this is gainingtraction, this is what I love,
this is my passion, and theytranslate that to uh a
revenue-generated opportunity.
Others may buy a business that'salready existing.
But no matter where your uhentree point is, you want to
(03:09):
make sure that uh you understandwhat uh the mechanics of it, the
financial mechanics of it, notjust focusing on the revenue.
But yes, you want to know howmuch you're gonna make, but you
also want to know how much it'sgonna cost you to make that
money.
So it's really great to putthings on paper and not just
keep everything in your head.
(03:29):
As a lender, we find that uh alot of times some businesses
that have been in business forsome time or a short time, they
keep everything in their headand they don't do their
financials to get a visual ofwhere they are.
You have to look at yourfinancials more than once a
year, not just in tax time, butyou really need to do it at
least quarterly.
(03:50):
Uh for putting the a simplespreadsheet, putting down what
you've earned and what you'vespent.
Because how will you know ifyou're making a profit if you're
not visually looking at youmaybe making$100,000 a month,
but if you're spending$150,000 amonth, then you're losing money.
So that's what we see a lot isthat you have to really track
your your income and yourexpenses.
(04:13):
And it doesn't have to be anelaborate process, but you
definitely need to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
Okay, okay, yeah, love it, love it.
So, what have your biggestlearnings been as an owner and
employer since you started yourbusiness?
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Well, I don't own it.
Uh no one owns a nonprofit,right?
But we uh but certainly I run itas the as a chief operating
officer.
But you know, even in thatfield, you have to have an
ownership because I do run it asa business.
So, in terms of uh employees, ifyou have them, um, is getting
the right people in position.
(04:47):
Sometimes we uh with smallbusinesses, we kind of go to
people that we know, you know,maybe hiring friends and family.
That's not always the best idea,unless they have the skill set
that you need.
You know, so you want to makesure that you really uh screen
those employees for the skillsets that you're looking for.
Some things you can teach, butsome things people need to walk
(05:10):
in in the door with thatparticular skill to help your
business grow.
And one thing that businessowners don't ever uh think that
you have to know it all.
I certainly don't, even though Ihave the role of a CEO, I have
people on my team that can dothings better than me.
You know, because that's whatyou want, fill those gaps of
things that either you need helpwith or that you're not the
(05:31):
strongest in.
So that way uh your team, youhave everything covered instead
of having everybody that can doone thing.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And then you can also delegate,right?
Because you don't want to takecare of it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Oh, yes, delegation is the key.
It is absolutely the key.
That's another, and thank youfor bringing that up, Cliff.
That's another point that asbusiness owners, you don't have
to do everything.
As a matter of fact, it's bestthat you don't do everything.
Because number one, if you'redoing everything, you can't be
sick.
You can never have a day off,you can never have downtime, but
(06:04):
you have to kind of delegatesome, you know, you have to
start small because somecompanies may only have a couple
of employees, and that's fine,but you can always get a
contracted person just to coversomething for a shorter period
of time and not necessarily putthem on payroll, but you can
still get the job done.
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
Okay, yeah, love it, love it.
So, what are some commonmisconceptions about running a
business and how do you addressthem?
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
Um, common misconceptions is that uh even
though your business hours maybe nine to five, as a business
owner, you are always on.
And, you know, I know some maysay, well, she's an employee.
How would she know?
Well, I happen to be married toa business owner.
(06:49):
So so I live, breathe, and workit every single moment of my
life.
So and and he's never off.
It's always, you're alwaysthinking about the next thing
and doing the next thing.
So you're never off.
So uh the real uh the reality,uh set your hours, you know,
whatever your operational hoursare, but know that there's gonna
(07:09):
be some times where you knowyou're working around the clock.
You know, you get some sleep,get rest, rejuvenate.
But you know, that's amisconception that people think,
oh, when I close my doors atfive, then I I can go to the
park or whatever.
Maybe you can, but sometimesthere's some work to do after
that.
And and I'm sure I'm I'mpreaching to the part those that
are listening.
Everyone's probably shakingtheir head, like, right, right.
(07:31):
Because it's uh, but you know,you have to give yourself some
grace and not try to do it allat once.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Yeah, and take vacations, right?
You gotta take some takevacations.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
It is absolutely okay.
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
Turn everything off there, too.
Well, try your best to turneverything off on those
vacations.
No, that's harder said thandone.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
It's tricky.
I know just as a sidebar, uh,when we do go on vacation, I'm
like, okay, I've given you thefirst day and a half to wind
down and make your calls and dowhatever because it's hard to
turn that faucet off.
But you got to have a couple ofdays where you just unplug.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Yeah, love it, love it.
So, what do you attribute yourgrowth to so far?
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
Um, I attribute it to going back to the uh
employees having the right uhteam, having as uh as it's been
said, having the right folks onthe bus, uh and in the right
seats on the bus.
Uh, and sometimes it takes time.
I mean, we uh our organizationhas been around for 26 years.
We actually acquired it througha merger uh in 2020, right in
(08:35):
right at the very tip of thepandemic.
Um, and so I had to build myteam from scratch, and it's
taking from that point to now toget the right team members.
And so we now we have a solidteam of 10 people on the team
that we cover five states.
And so because I have the rightpeople, we can do that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Okay, okay, great, great.
And I know you kind of we justkind of actually just covered
this a little bit, but uh, howdo you properly balance your
personal life with the demandsof running a business?
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
That that's a great question.
You you have to really have acutoff point.
I've I've known, I know a lot ofentrepreneurs, uh, because I'm
clearly in that space from alending and from a personal
life.
Um, and I have learned from themin that you have to literally
block time off on your calendarand have a, and it's really good
to have a cutoff at the end ofthe day, saying, you know, after
(09:29):
eight o'clock or after nineo'clock, I'm not gonna do
anything else because you haveto to to wind down.
And, you know, some people havespouses or children or caring
for parents or whatever the casemay be.
So it's really about balancingand and it's okay if uh you
don't get everything done thatday because there's tomorrow.
(09:51):
Not that that sounds like it andit's not procrastinating, it's
just being realistic, saying,what can I get done today?
And just refresh that list everyday.
SPEAKER_00 (10:00):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I agree with that.
Yeah, and we talked about alittle bit about this earlier,
but let's dive into it a littlebit more.
You know, what qualities do youlook for in employees and how
how do you foster a positive andproductive work environment?
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
Yeah, I I've been fortunate, Clip, to I've been a
management for some decades.
And I well, I've learned alongthe way, at first, I was always
looking for just skill, skill,skill, and not really paying
attention to personality and acultural fit.
I mean, like a work culture.
So I I've learned over the yearsto to pay more attention to make
(10:34):
sure that uh with the currentteam that I have, that is this
person a cultural fit, a workcultural fit for the
organization, knowing what wedo, because sometimes people
have excellent skills, but theymight not really like to
honestly be around people.
I mean, I've seen that.
Well, they'd rather be in theoffice with the door shut and
(10:55):
just work, work, work.
Well, that's not a cultural fitfor how we operate.
It may work in other places, butit doesn't work for us.
So it's really a matter and amatter of just understanding
their working styles.
So I pay a lot of attention tothat.
Uh, and and that has proven tobe um the best approach, at
least for our organization.
(11:17):
Because even though it's anonprofit organization, we we
wear a lot of hats.
And so you have to be, you know,there's some flexibility that
has to be part of that person'suh culture.
You know, if they just like, no,that's not my job, then this is
not the job for you becausesometimes we have to pivot and
do things that may not be partof that description.
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Yeah, no, no, I I agree with you on that.
Like I had a prior, priorposition, prior prior job I was
at actually, where um there werepeople that I was actually
managing, and some of them I hadbig problems with.
They would come into the office,and as soon as they come into
the office, they close the doorand stay in there door closed
all day.
And I'm very much a peopleperson.
Like, I like to have people comeinto my office.
(11:59):
Let's sit down, let's chat.
What are things that are goingwell in the company?
What are things that aren'tgoing well?
I, you know, I want to havethese discussions.
When you have people that comeinto the office, they just want
to be just shut off.
That's not a good fit for me.
SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
It's not a great fit at all.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
No, no.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
And it's actually kind of it affects morale, you
know, because it, you know, theteam may be like, well, what's
going on?
You know, why is this person youknow not engaging?
I mean, we all have jobs to do,but um, but it has to be a
camaraderie among your team andamong your employees where
there's a problem.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with that.
All right, so let's go ahead.
Yeah, that's all the questions.
So let's go to the quick fireround.
So I'm just going to bring theenergy real quick.
I'm gonna give you a couple ofquick little words, and you just
tell me the first thing thatcomes to mind when I tell you
this about the business.
Uh so education.
SPEAKER_01 (12:49):
Necessary.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Necessary, okay, all right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:52):
Planning.
Paramount.
Planning is key.
Inspiration.
Useful.
Useful in the future.
You have to be inspired or youor you're stuck.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
And commitment.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Number one requirement above all.
If you commit it, everythingelse will come.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Yeah, I love that.
All right.
So, yeah, that's a quick firearound.
So, what words of advice wouldyou offer other business owners
or other people in topic, youknow, I know you're not
necessarily a business owner,but people in the top positions
who are looking to grow further.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
Um, I would say it and if someone uh to be clear,
if someone's in owning abusiness and they want to what
expand, is that what you'reasking?
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, they're looking to grow their business
even more.
So you know, let's say they'relooking to double the revenue in
the next three years or whateverthe case may be.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
Yes, okay, excellent.
So I would say, I mean,obviously, I'll put my lender
hat on for a moment, and I wouldsay that consider the fact that
if your growth requiresadditional capital, um, talk to
a lender, it doesn't have to beus, but talk to a lender and see
if that uh is what you need togrow your business.
People think that debt is not agood thing.
(14:13):
Well, there's good debt andthere's bad debt.
And if you have a plan for that,uh for that uh debt that you're
acquiring and as to how it'sgonna make money for you, then
that's a very good thing.
Because sometimes businessesthink, okay, I'm gonna take
money from what I have to dothis next thing.
And that can work some in somecases, but sometimes it requires
(14:34):
an infusion of capital uh togrow.
So I would say just determine ifthat growth, uh if you need
capital to make that to makethat happen, if you need
equipment to make it happen, orwhatever your if it's a product
or service, just what it is thatyou need to get to that next
level.
It may be a second location.
Well, that more than likely willrequire some capital.
(14:55):
Um, so I would say that.
And I'll add something in theend too.
But go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (15:00):
Okay.
All right, perfect, perfect.
Yeah, now this is uh highlightportion.
So anything you want to uh youwant to say to anybody
listening?
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Um I would say uh as a business owner, whether you're
in business for a long time orfairly new, is please look into
the resources that are availableuh in your community.
I mean, it there's a lot of freeresources uh for you that um if
you're looking to grow or startyour business through uh through
(15:29):
organizations like ours, throughCDFIs that we offer technical
assistance, through smallbusiness centers, through uh uh
small business um technology anddevelopment centers that are on
university campus, smallbusiness centers are on
community college campuses.
But there are all these kinds oforganizations that can provide
technical assistance at no costto a business, doesn't matter
(15:50):
where you are on the stage.
So look into those resources,and the probably the best place
to start to get a full list ofthat is with the Secretary of
State office for the state ofNorth Carolina.
They are incredible.
We have a very closerelationship with Secretary
Marshall and her team.
They they provide so manyresources, uh, and they have a
(16:11):
list of everybody that I'mtalking about, so you can know
kind of where to go.
But uh, I would say utilizewhat's uh available to you
because your tax dollars havealready paid for it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Yeah, that's for sure.
All right, and then yeah, findit.
What's what's the next big thingfor uh the NC, the Institute NC?
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
Uh well for for uh for ICAP, the next big thing
that we oh, and I should say,and don't let me leave this out,
Cliff, that we actually arelocated in downtown Asheville at
46 South Market Street.
We have an office right in theheart of downtown, right across
from the foundry, diagonallyacross from YMI Cultural Center.
So stop by and see us.
(16:49):
Uh, Aaron Soto is my teammember, that man's at office.
He is a great guy, and he ismore than willing to help any
business in any level.
Um, we are hoping to deepen ourrelationship in Asheville uh to
help with the recovery fromHurricane Helene.
Uh, the city has grant fundingthat they are looking for
sub-recipients like us.
(17:09):
Uh, so we're gonna apply.
So yeah, wishes well, because ifif we're approved as a
sub-recipient, then we'll be uhproviding additional grants to
small businesses.
So you all stay tuned and makesure you you uh come and check
us out.
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
Yeah, no, no.
And and shouts out to AaronSoto.
He's yeah, I actually met him atthe Asheville Business Summit.
Uh he's actually the one who gotme in touch with Roberta here
today, and he's he's awesome.
Um he's a great guy.
Yeah, he's a great guy.
If you go and stop by, you know,there on Market Street, you'll
have a good time with him.
He's a great guy.
He's really, really easy to talkto.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah, so when you talk about right seat, right
bus, he's the guy.
And just for the record, forthose I don't know who all the
listening audience is, but uhAaron is uh bilingual in English
and Spanish, so he can help abroad uh selection of people.
SPEAKER_00 (17:58):
Very nice, very nice to throw out there.
All right, perfect.
And lastly, what's the best wayfor someone to find and get in
touch with you?
You kind of already put uhphysically out there, but uh any
other ways to get in touch withyou?
SPEAKER_01 (18:09):
Yes, um, you can reach out to me.
My email is a little bit long,but I'll give it to you anyway.
It's um r McCullough, and I'llspell it out for our listening
audience.
It's R M C C U L L O U G H attheinstitutenc.org.
(18:29):
That's rmcullag attheinstitutenc.org.
My number is 919-423-1025.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Perfect.
And any social media.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
Yes, we are on uh LinkedIn and we're on Facebook.
If you just look up InstituteCapital, we'll pop right up and
feel free to give us a call.
And I I should give uh everyoneAaron's number.
I told Aaron I still don't havehis number memorized, it's
terrible.
I know me better at that.
Uh, but his number is828-329-5446.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
Perfect, perfect.
And what was that address againon Market Street?
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
It's 46 South Market Street, and that's right in
downtown Asheville, Camp Method.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Perfect, fantastic.
Yeah, thank you so much forbeing a part of the community
and for all you're doing.
We certainly wish you continuedsuccess.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Uh thank you so much, Cliff.
I appreciate it and have me backanytime.
Uh I love this.
This is this is amazing.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
Yeah, this is great.
This is great.
Yeah, well, appreciate youcoming on.
I'll go ahead and end it up.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
Thank you, Cliff.
Have a great day.
All right.
Welcome to this week's episodeof Epic Entrepreneurs.
I'm Cliff McCray, filling in forBill Gillilan with your local
business training and coachingfirm, Action Coach Business
Growth Partners.
I'm excited to have Roberta.
Is that McCullough?
McCullough.
McCullough.
Okay.
Just want to make sure I saythat.
All right.
McCullough with Institute NC onas the focus for our Epic
(01:02):
Entrepreneurs podcast today.
So, Roberta, please introduceyourself and tell us a little
bit about yourself and yourcompany and what primary
products or services you offerthe community.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
All right.
Thank you so much, Cliff, forhaving me.
I'm very excited and waiting onthis moment.
So my name again is RobertaMcCullough, and I work for an
organization called the NationalInstitute of Minority and
Economic Development.
Institute Capital, which is whatwe'll focus on this morning, is
the lending affiliate of thatorganization.
As for me personally, I was bornand raised in Asheville, North
(01:36):
Carolina.
Still have a lot of friendsthere and associates.
So I'm very excited to be ableto share just more of what I'm
doing.
Some people know, some don't.
So in terms of Institute Capitalor ICAP, as we call ourselves,
we are what's called a communitydevelopment financial
institution or CDFI for short.
(01:57):
There's a lot of acronyms,nonprofit world.
We are a nonprofit organization,and our focus is lending and
providing some grants to uhsmall businesses, you know,
across our particular footprint,which we'll just focus on,
obviously, Western NorthCarolina this morning.
But we actually lend in fivestates.
So, and we also lend to uhaffordable housing developers uh
(02:19):
to help them get started withnew projects.
So have a lot to offer in in thespace that we are gonna be
talking about this morning,which is you know, economic uh
recovery, you know, economicdevelopment, community
development is what uh I want tofocus on this morning.
So that's a a tidbit of whatwe're gonna talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Perfect, perfect.
I love that.
That's a great intro.
All right.
So if you had to start your bit,you know, from square one in
your business, what would you dodifferently?
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
So for someone that's starting a business, um,
I mean, it's it's businessesstart different ways.
Some of them start literally asa hobby and they realize, hey,
this is this is gainingtraction, this is what I love,
this is my passion, and theytranslate that to uh a
revenue-generated opportunity.
Others may buy a business that'salready existing.
But no matter where your uhentree point is, you want to
(03:09):
make sure that uh you understandwhat uh the mechanics of it, the
financial mechanics of it, notjust focusing on the revenue.
But yes, you want to know howmuch you're gonna make, but you
also want to know how much it'sgonna cost you to make that
money.
So it's really great to putthings on paper and not just
keep everything in your head.
(03:29):
As a lender, we find that uh alot of times some businesses
that have been in business forsome time or a short time, they
keep everything in their headand they don't do their
financials to get a visual ofwhere they are.
You have to look at yourfinancials more than once a
year, not just in tax time, butyou really need to do it at
least quarterly.
(03:50):
Uh for putting the a simplespreadsheet, putting down what
you've earned and what you'vespent.
Because how will you know ifyou're making a profit if you're
not visually looking at youmaybe making$100,000 a month,
but if you're spending$150,000 amonth, then you're losing money.
So that's what we see a lot isthat you have to really track
your your income and yourexpenses.
(04:13):
And it doesn't have to be anelaborate process, but you
definitely need to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
Okay, okay, yeah, love it, love it.
So, what have your biggestlearnings been as an owner and
employer since you started yourbusiness?
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Well, I don't own it.
Uh no one owns a nonprofit,right?
But we uh but certainly I run itas the as a chief operating
officer.
But you know, even in thatfield, you have to have an
ownership because I do run it asa business.
So, in terms of uh employees, ifyou have them, um, is getting
the right people in position.
(04:47):
Sometimes we uh with smallbusinesses, we kind of go to
people that we know, you know,maybe hiring friends and family.
That's not always the best idea,unless they have the skill set
that you need.
You know, so you want to makesure that you really uh screen
those employees for the skillsets that you're looking for.
Some things you can teach, butsome things people need to walk
(05:10):
in in the door with thatparticular skill to help your
business grow.
And one thing that businessowners don't ever uh think that
you have to know it all.
I certainly don't, even though Ihave the role of a CEO, I have
people on my team that can dothings better than me.
You know, because that's whatyou want, fill those gaps of
things that either you need helpwith or that you're not the
(05:31):
strongest in.
So that way uh your team, youhave everything covered instead
of having everybody that can doone thing.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And then you can also delegate,right?
Because you don't want to takecare of it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Oh, yes, delegation is the key.
It is absolutely the key.
That's another, and thank youfor bringing that up, Cliff.
That's another point that asbusiness owners, you don't have
to do everything.
As a matter of fact, it's bestthat you don't do everything.
Because number one, if you'redoing everything, you can't be
sick.
You can never have a day off,you can never have downtime, but
(06:04):
you have to kind of delegatesome, you know, you have to
start small because somecompanies may only have a couple
of employees, and that's fine,but you can always get a
contracted person just to coversomething for a shorter period
of time and not necessarily putthem on payroll, but you can
still get the job done.
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
Okay, yeah, love it, love it.
So, what are some commonmisconceptions about running a
business and how do you addressthem?
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
Um, common misconceptions is that uh even
though your business hours maybe nine to five, as a business
owner, you are always on.
And, you know, I know some maysay, well, she's an employee.
How would she know?
Well, I happen to be married toa business owner.
(06:49):
So so I live, breathe, and workit every single moment of my
life.
So and and he's never off.
It's always, you're alwaysthinking about the next thing
and doing the next thing.
So you're never off.
So uh the real uh the reality,uh set your hours, you know,
whatever your operational hoursare, but know that there's gonna
(07:09):
be some times where you knowyou're working around the clock.
You know, you get some sleep,get rest, rejuvenate.
But you know, that's amisconception that people think,
oh, when I close my doors atfive, then I I can go to the
park or whatever.
Maybe you can, but sometimesthere's some work to do after
that.
And and I'm sure I'm I'mpreaching to the part those that
are listening.
Everyone's probably shakingtheir head, like, right, right.
(07:31):
Because it's uh, but you know,you have to give yourself some
grace and not try to do it allat once.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Yeah, and take vacations, right?
You gotta take some takevacations.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
It is absolutely okay.
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
Turn everything off there, too.
Well, try your best to turneverything off on those
vacations.
No, that's harder said thandone.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
It's tricky.
I know just as a sidebar, uh,when we do go on vacation, I'm
like, okay, I've given you thefirst day and a half to wind
down and make your calls and dowhatever because it's hard to
turn that faucet off.
But you got to have a couple ofdays where you just unplug.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Yeah, love it, love it.
So, what do you attribute yourgrowth to so far?
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
Um, I attribute it to going back to the uh
employees having the right uhteam, having as uh as it's been
said, having the right folks onthe bus, uh and in the right
seats on the bus.
Uh, and sometimes it takes time.
I mean, we uh our organizationhas been around for 26 years.
We actually acquired it througha merger uh in 2020, right in
(08:35):
right at the very tip of thepandemic.
Um, and so I had to build myteam from scratch, and it's
taking from that point to now toget the right team members.
And so we now we have a solidteam of 10 people on the team
that we cover five states.
And so because I have the rightpeople, we can do that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Okay, okay, great, great.
And I know you kind of we justkind of actually just covered
this a little bit, but uh, howdo you properly balance your
personal life with the demandsof running a business?
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
That that's a great question.
You you have to really have acutoff point.
I've I've known, I know a lot ofentrepreneurs, uh, because I'm
clearly in that space from alending and from a personal
life.
Um, and I have learned from themin that you have to literally
block time off on your calendarand have a, and it's really good
to have a cutoff at the end ofthe day, saying, you know, after
(09:29):
eight o'clock or after nineo'clock, I'm not gonna do
anything else because you haveto to to wind down.
And, you know, some people havespouses or children or caring
for parents or whatever the casemay be.
So it's really about balancingand and it's okay if uh you
don't get everything done thatday because there's tomorrow.
(09:51):
Not that that sounds like it andit's not procrastinating, it's
just being realistic, saying,what can I get done today?
And just refresh that list everyday.
SPEAKER_00 (10:00):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I agree with that.
Yeah, and we talked about alittle bit about this earlier,
but let's dive into it a littlebit more.
You know, what qualities do youlook for in employees and how
how do you foster a positive andproductive work environment?
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
Yeah, I I've been fortunate, Clip, to I've been a
management for some decades.
And I well, I've learned alongthe way, at first, I was always
looking for just skill, skill,skill, and not really paying
attention to personality and acultural fit.
I mean, like a work culture.
So I I've learned over the yearsto to pay more attention to make
(10:34):
sure that uh with the currentteam that I have, that is this
person a cultural fit, a workcultural fit for the
organization, knowing what wedo, because sometimes people
have excellent skills, but theymight not really like to
honestly be around people.
I mean, I've seen that.
Well, they'd rather be in theoffice with the door shut and
(10:55):
just work, work, work.
Well, that's not a cultural fitfor how we operate.
It may work in other places, butit doesn't work for us.
So it's really a matter and amatter of just understanding
their working styles.
So I pay a lot of attention tothat.
Uh, and and that has proven tobe um the best approach, at
least for our organization.
(11:17):
Because even though it's anonprofit organization, we we
wear a lot of hats.
And so you have to be, you know,there's some flexibility that
has to be part of that person'suh culture.
You know, if they just like, no,that's not my job, then this is
not the job for you becausesometimes we have to pivot and
do things that may not be partof that description.
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Yeah, no, no, I I agree with you on that.
Like I had a prior, priorposition, prior prior job I was
at actually, where um there werepeople that I was actually
managing, and some of them I hadbig problems with.
They would come into the office,and as soon as they come into
the office, they close the doorand stay in there door closed
all day.
And I'm very much a peopleperson.
Like, I like to have people comeinto my office.
(11:59):
Let's sit down, let's chat.
What are things that are goingwell in the company?
What are things that aren'tgoing well?
I, you know, I want to havethese discussions.
When you have people that comeinto the office, they just want
to be just shut off.
That's not a good fit for me.
SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
It's not a great fit at all.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
No, no.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
And it's actually kind of it affects morale, you
know, because it, you know, theteam may be like, well, what's
going on?
You know, why is this person youknow not engaging?
I mean, we all have jobs to do,but um, but it has to be a
camaraderie among your team andamong your employees where
there's a problem.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with that.
All right, so let's go ahead.
Yeah, that's all the questions.
So let's go to the quick fireround.
So I'm just going to bring theenergy real quick.
I'm gonna give you a couple ofquick little words, and you just
tell me the first thing thatcomes to mind when I tell you
this about the business.
Uh so education.
SPEAKER_01 (12:49):
Necessary.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Necessary, okay, all right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:52):
Planning.
Paramount.
Planning is key.
Inspiration.
Useful.
Useful in the future.
You have to be inspired or youor you're stuck.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
And commitment.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Number one requirement above all.
If you commit it, everythingelse will come.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Yeah, I love that.
All right.
So, yeah, that's a quick firearound.
So, what words of advice wouldyou offer other business owners
or other people in topic, youknow, I know you're not
necessarily a business owner,but people in the top positions
who are looking to grow further.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
Um, I would say it and if someone uh to be clear,
if someone's in owning abusiness and they want to what
expand, is that what you'reasking?
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, they're looking to grow their business
even more.
So you know, let's say they'relooking to double the revenue in
the next three years or whateverthe case may be.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
Yes, okay, excellent.
So I would say, I mean,obviously, I'll put my lender
hat on for a moment, and I wouldsay that consider the fact that
if your growth requiresadditional capital, um, talk to
a lender, it doesn't have to beus, but talk to a lender and see
if that uh is what you need togrow your business.
People think that debt is not agood thing.
(14:13):
Well, there's good debt andthere's bad debt.
And if you have a plan for that,uh for that uh debt that you're
acquiring and as to how it'sgonna make money for you, then
that's a very good thing.
Because sometimes businessesthink, okay, I'm gonna take
money from what I have to dothis next thing.
And that can work some in somecases, but sometimes it requires
(14:34):
an infusion of capital uh togrow.
So I would say just determine ifthat growth, uh if you need
capital to make that to makethat happen, if you need
equipment to make it happen, orwhatever your if it's a product
or service, just what it is thatyou need to get to that next
level.
It may be a second location.
Well, that more than likely willrequire some capital.
(14:55):
Um, so I would say that.
And I'll add something in theend too.
But go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (15:00):
Okay.
All right, perfect, perfect.
Yeah, now this is uh highlightportion.
So anything you want to uh youwant to say to anybody
listening?
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Um I would say uh as a business owner, whether you're
in business for a long time orfairly new, is please look into
the resources that are availableuh in your community.
I mean, it there's a lot of freeresources uh for you that um if
you're looking to grow or startyour business through uh through
(15:29):
organizations like ours, throughCDFIs that we offer technical
assistance, through smallbusiness centers, through uh uh
small business um technology anddevelopment centers that are on
university campus, smallbusiness centers are on
community college campuses.
But there are all these kinds oforganizations that can provide
technical assistance at no costto a business, doesn't matter
(15:50):
where you are on the stage.
So look into those resources,and the probably the best place
to start to get a full list ofthat is with the Secretary of
State office for the state ofNorth Carolina.
They are incredible.
We have a very closerelationship with Secretary
Marshall and her team.
They they provide so manyresources, uh, and they have a
(16:11):
list of everybody that I'mtalking about, so you can know
kind of where to go.
But uh, I would say utilizewhat's uh available to you
because your tax dollars havealready paid for it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Yeah, that's for sure.
All right, and then yeah, findit.
What's what's the next big thingfor uh the NC, the Institute NC?
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
Uh well for for uh for ICAP, the next big thing
that we oh, and I should say,and don't let me leave this out,
Cliff, that we actually arelocated in downtown Asheville at
46 South Market Street.
We have an office right in theheart of downtown, right across
from the foundry, diagonallyacross from YMI Cultural Center.
So stop by and see us.
(16:49):
Uh, Aaron Soto is my teammember, that man's at office.
He is a great guy, and he ismore than willing to help any
business in any level.
Um, we are hoping to deepen ourrelationship in Asheville uh to
help with the recovery fromHurricane Helene.
Uh, the city has grant fundingthat they are looking for
sub-recipients like us.
(17:09):
Uh, so we're gonna apply.
So yeah, wishes well, because ifif we're approved as a
sub-recipient, then we'll be uhproviding additional grants to
small businesses.
So you all stay tuned and makesure you you uh come and check
us out.
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
Yeah, no, no.
And and shouts out to AaronSoto.
He's yeah, I actually met him atthe Asheville Business Summit.
Uh he's actually the one who gotme in touch with Roberta here
today, and he's he's awesome.
Um he's a great guy.
Yeah, he's a great guy.
If you go and stop by, you know,there on Market Street, you'll
have a good time with him.
He's a great guy.
He's really, really easy to talkto.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Yeah, so when you talk about right seat, right
bus, he's the guy.
And just for the record, forthose I don't know who all the
listening audience is, but uhAaron is uh bilingual in English
and Spanish, so he can help abroad uh selection of people.
SPEAKER_00 (17:58):
Very nice, very nice to throw out there.
All right, perfect.
And lastly, what's the best wayfor someone to find and get in
touch with you?
You kind of already put uhphysically out there, but uh any
other ways to get in touch withyou?
SPEAKER_01 (18:09):
Yes, um, you can reach out to me.
My email is a little bit long,but I'll give it to you anyway.
It's um r McCullough, and I'llspell it out for our listening
audience.
It's R M C C U L L O U G H attheinstitutenc.org.
(18:29):
That's rmcullag attheinstitutenc.org.
My number is 919-423-1025.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Perfect.
And any social media.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
Yes, we are on uh LinkedIn and we're on Facebook.
If you just look up InstituteCapital, we'll pop right up and
feel free to give us a call.
And I I should give uh everyoneAaron's number.
I told Aaron I still don't havehis number memorized, it's
terrible.
I know me better at that.
Uh, but his number is828-329-5446.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
Perfect, perfect.
And what was that address againon Market Street?
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
It's 46 South Market Street, and that's right in
downtown Asheville, Camp Method.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Perfect, fantastic.
Yeah, thank you so much forbeing a part of the community
and for all you're doing.
We certainly wish you continuedsuccess.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Uh thank you so much, Cliff.
I appreciate it and have me backanytime.
Uh I love this.
This is this is amazing.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
Yeah, this is great.
This is great.
Yeah, well, appreciate youcoming on.
I'll go ahead and end it up.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
Thank you, Cliff.
Have a great day.
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