September 30, 2025 • 29 mins
What happens when you launch an architecture firm on the very day a recession begins? For Brent Campbell, founder of BCA Architecture and Design, that seemingly terrible timing in 2007 became the foundation for a thriving Asheville-based practice that now employs eight people and handles projects ranging from custom homes to commercial buildings across Western North Carolina.
Joining host Bill Gilliland, Brent and fellow architect Erin Foy share the remarkable journey of building their firm without conventional business strategies or aggressive marketing plans. Instead, they've grown organically by responding to community needs, building relationships, and creating positive experiences that generate word-of-mouth referrals and repeat clients.
The conversation explores the unique challenges architects face in educating clients who've never worked with design professionals before.
What truly sets BCA apart is their approach to building a team focused on versatility, adaptability, and positivity. Rather than seeking specific technical skills, they look for team members who can shift gears quickly, communicate effectively, and maintain enthusiasm throughout long project timelines. This flexible mindset has served them well through economic changes, the pandemic, and even natural disasters like Hurricane Helene.
Drawing inspiration from Asheville's natural beauty and resilient community, BCA continues to evolve without rigid long-term planning. Their story offers valuable insights for entrepreneurs in any field about building a sustainable business that responds to opportunity while maintaining core values and commitment to quality.
Want to learn more about BCA Architecture and Design? Visit them at bcavl.com or stop by their office on Asheville's South Slope.
Guest contact information:
Brent: Bacampbell@mac.com
Erin: Erin@bcavl.com
Thanks for Listening. You may contact me or our team at https://billgilliland.biz/
All the best!
Bill
Thanks for listening. Please hit the subscribe button, leave us a 5 star review, and share this podcast. You can reach me at williamgilliland@actioncoach.com or at https://billgilliland.biz/
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Bill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic
Entrepreneurs.
I'm Bill Gilliland, your host.
I am the principal at ActionCoach, business Growth Partners
and one of the founders of theAsheville Business Summit.
I am super pumped.
Today I have Brent and Aaronfrom BCA Architecture and Design
.
I can't wait to hear theirstory.
So welcome to the podcast.
(00:23):
Tell us a little bit aboutyourselves and how you got here.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Oh, I'm Brent Campbell.
I'm the owner and principal ofthe architecture firm.
We started this in 2007.
I've been working in Nashvillefor about three or four years at
some other firms and learningand after traveling around and
working and going to school indifferent places, and I started
(00:50):
this in 2007, the day that therecession hit, which was not
great timing, but it worked outas you're kind of learning how
to start something new.
It's probably, in retrospect,good timing, but over the years
we've've grown to staff of eightand um done a lot of exciting
projects and had a lot of funalong the way, and um plan to
(01:13):
keep it going here for a littlebit um, I'm erin foy.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I'm the other architect in the office and I
joined this firm in 2015 afterworking at another firm here in
Asheville yeah, from here, grewup here, left for school a
couple different times and cameback and then left again, and
it's just a good place to be anda good place to practice
(01:41):
architecture and, yeah, that'swhere I'm at.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, it is.
I mean, it seems like there's alot of interesting projects and
a lot of interesting thingsgoing on around Asheville and
western North Carolina.
So I agree with you, it must be, from a design standpoint, it
must be a really interestingplace to practice.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, and it's continuously evolving.
I mean from well, especiallysince I don't know from the
recession to through COVID,through Helene.
This is just.
You know, it's always changingin terms of what we're doing and
who's coming to town and who'sinterested in building here and
what projects are happening andwho can afford to do what, and
so, yeah, it's definitely it'sconstantly evolving.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, I think we're.
You know Asheville I mean,helene, you know, obviously was
a setback but it's.
But you know we're back on therise again, so it's, it's, it's
pretty, it's pretty cool, it's apretty cool place.
Let me ask you a question Ifyou had to start it over again,
what would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I don't know.
I think it's been such a funand wild and diverse ride and I
don't know if I would.
I would probably try to figureout how to make our systems more
efficient and you know justsome monetary things about.
You know I have no businessbackground, so that took a
(03:06):
pretty big learning curve.
But as far as the experience, Idon't know if that would change
a whole lot because it's justkind of evolved from just being
a reactionary to whatever kindof the community was needing and
wanting Like for a while.
We've done a lot of smallcommercial projects when that
was been.
We've done a lot of residentialprojects.
We've met a lot of smallcommercial projects when that
(03:29):
was been.
We've done a lot of residentialprojects.
We've met a lot of really funbusiness owners along the way
and created long-termrelationships with repeat
clients.
And yeah, there's definitelymicro things that have changed.
But as far as the big pictureof just kind of feeling our way
through this and becoming a partof the community and touching
so many different parts andprojects and meeting so many
people, it's been a pretty goodexperience.
So I'd be hesitant to tinkerwith it.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, I get that a lot.
Actually, I think theexperiences we have make us who
we are, so I do get that.
Hey, I might do this or I mighttweak this thing, like you just
said, like I might have workedon systems earlier or I might
have, you know, had somebusiness education or something
along those lines.
So along the way there had tobe learnings.
(04:11):
So what are some of the biggestlearnings that you guys have
had?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
There's been several.
I mean, for me you know I'vebeen here since the beginning,
obviously been here since thebeginning obviously it was a lot
of um, just realizing the valueof having a team and letting
people excel at what they'regood at and kind of letting go
and kind of utilizing thebenefits of having a team um and
(04:37):
just the strength of that andthe support they can get from a,
you know, studio environment.
Know a lot of architects kind ofwork in one room by themselves
and I'd say the majority in thecountry are sole proprietors and
that's just a kind of adifferent existence and I think
there's a lot of value on that.
But what was reallyenlightening for me was just the
(04:57):
value of kind of a hive mindand working together and sharing
information and supporting eachother and kind of letting
everyone in the office haveownership over projects and
being accountable.
So like that was reallyenlightening for me.
And I actually learned thatfrom when I moved to town.
I worked for a really goodarchitect here named Robert
(05:18):
Griffin and he sort of had thatsame approach where he gave us
so much autonomy andindependence and kind of helped
us along the way and it was just, you know, I never had an
experience like that, where allthe team members are accountable
for what happens, and so Ilearned a lot from that.
Yeah, and I love that, so tellus about your team Well it's me
(05:40):
and Aaron's, a licensedarchitect that oversees a lot of
projects and designs a lot ofprojects, and we have, let's see
, we have an intern and Erin's,a licensed architect that
oversees a lot of projects anddesigns a lot of projects, and
we have, let's see, we have anintern and we have an interior
designer, which has been a lotof fun to have that component in
our office.
She brings a lot of experienceand diversity to our projects
(06:03):
and we have several designersseveral I four designs yeah that
kind of all manage independentprojects and work together and
collaborate.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So what's the difference between like
designers and what y'all do?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
um it well, it um has to do mostly with licensure and
passing the tests and goingthrough the steps to get your
license.
So the other kind of there'sthe interior designer, and so
that's where her background is,her educational background is,
and then there's an intern whowent to architecture school but
(06:39):
hasn't worked long enough andpassed all the tests to be
licensed enough and passed allthe tests to be licensed.
And then there's four otherdesigners who all also went to
architecture school but thenjust didn't go through the
licensure process or haven'tgone through it yet.
And so, like, with a license,you just there's more liability,
there's more responsibility,but then there's also the
(07:01):
capacity to practice solo and docommercial stuff and whatnot.
So you have more options with alicense but you also have, I
think, a lot more responsibilityand liability.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Got it, I got it.
So what are some of the commonmisconceptions about running an
architecture firm and how wouldyou address those?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I would say, and not that they're misconceptions, but
just a lot of the public issort of confused about what we
do.
Like a lot of the clients thatwe get they've never worked with
an architect before and reallydon't even know what they're
stepping into or how much itcosts or how long does it take
and do I even need an architect?
And so there's just a generallack of just understanding about
(07:51):
our field just in the generalpublic.
And that's understandable,because most people go through
their whole lives and don't hirean architect to do anything.
Like we're not required to helpyou design your house, or you
know, unless you're starting abusiness or designing a big
custom home.
Like a lot of people don'tinteract with us, you know.
But, um, for some reasonAsheville is such a small town
but we end up working a lot ofprojects.
(08:12):
We're kind of a highlyregulated, um sort of building
department here and so that kindof brings us and the different
architects around town into alot of projects to figure out
life, safety and occupancy andall the technical side of things
, and so and that's just kind ofsomething people aren't used to
and it's, you know, if someonewants to open a coffee shop.
They think they can just rent aspace and open it up and start
(08:34):
selling coffee.
But there's just a lot ofpaperwork between that and
opening up, and so we ended uphaving to explain that process
quite a bit and saying withhomeowners like, what value do
we bring and how do we get youfrom you know your ideas on
Pinterest to then startingconstruction of the home.
So no, there's a misconception,there's just a lot of
(08:55):
explaining that has to kind ofgo on, because people don't
normally interact witharchitects on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, well, it's a project-based profession and I
mean most people would do in alifetime, maybe one, maybe two
projects.
I mean they're obviously theones that do multiple projects,
developers and those kind ofpeople.
But I mean it's got to be.
Yeah, I get it.
(09:22):
I mean you guys do the stuffall day long and then most
people are walking in, sort ofignorant of how it works.
So, yeah, it makes a lot ofsense.
I like that.
I like that.
So you guys have obviouslygrown.
I mean you started with you andyou started in the recession,
and that's I like that.
So you guys have obviouslygrown.
I mean it started with you andyou started in the recession,
and that's now eight people.
So what do you attribute thatgrowth to?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I would um, there was no real strategy.
Like this has all just kind ofbeen reactionary and kind of
safe.
It's like, um, you know wedidn't grow.
And then find the projects.
It was more like, oh gosh, wehave an overwhelming number of
projects that we definitely wantto do and we're not going to
not do these.
They're incredibleopportunities and so then we
would grow to match thatopportunity.
(10:06):
So I'm not sure if that's kindof the right path or not.
It's kind of a safer way togrow, rather than, you know,
projecting all this volume andstaffing up and that sort of
thing.
And so I would say there wasn'tany real strategy there.
It was just me seeing theseopportunities to have a really
(10:26):
fun career and touch all thesedifferent projects and be a part
of it and then having enoughpeople and resources to do that.
So that's kind of what westruggled with for a long time.
It was like we have theseprojects, how are we going to
get them done?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, I have a slightly different perspective,
just coming in after he had beendoing it for eight years, and I
think that part of what haslike contributed to the growth
is just like a positiveexperience that previous clients
had or his friends had, or youknow people around town, and so
that kind of word of mouth,reputation spreads and it
(11:06):
creates more projects and itcreates repeat clients, and so
it's like you know, if you offera positive service and people
have a good experience, theneither they tell their friend or
they come back for the nextproject or whatever.
So I think when I started thatwas my perception of like well,
he just has this really goodbase and has a good reputation,
you know, and so I think thathas kind of continued and I
(11:27):
think that's contributed to thegrowth, whether you know that
was real intentional or not.
Like I think that was a bigpiece of it, cause, like, as far
as marketing goes, like youknow, we've never been super
aggressive.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Um, or competent yeah well, no, it's all right, I
mean it.
It seems like you've staffed upas you needed to, but that
positivity and that sort of Iget it.
You guys are seem like you havefun.
I mean, enjoy what you do andlike being at work and love
doing things.
I mean I've always thoughtarchitecture was a cool
profession anyway, because youget to, I mean you can design
(12:01):
something, and then it's therefor a while and you can say, hey
, that's cool, that's somethingI had something to do with.
Creating.
This, you know, beautiful pieceof something, you know,
whatever it is, whether it's abuilding or house or whatever it
is, I've always thought thatwas cool.
You know, I don't, I don't havethe aesthetic, uh, I I might,
(12:24):
might, might, give fly otherplaces, but uh, but I certainly
do appreciate what, um, what youguys, what you guys are doing
out there.
So let me ask you somethingwhen you are looking for an
employee, what are you lookingfor?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
That's a good question.
Um, it's mostly, uh, where inour realm of what we do?
Um, it's mostly um versatilityand positivity and, I guess,
adaptability, because there aredays in here when you have no
(12:57):
idea what's going to happen andyou kind of have to be flexible
enough to shift gears and changehats, and I mean the projects
we have are just all over theboard.
You know we do medicalfacilities and barns and houses
and greenhouses, and you knowrestaurants and bars, and you
kind of have to be prettyflexible and open-minded.
(13:19):
And so I guess, um, all thetechnical stuff you can kind of
learn, and so a lot of peoplethat have come in here had no
experience with the software andum, kind of very little
experience with projectmanagement.
But that's that's stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
That's all pretty teachable if you put the hours
on, and so what I've found isjust it's more the mindset of um
wanting to get after it andbeing positive and being able to
communicate, kind of all theintangibles and there's been
different times like I thinkalong the way at least that I've
(13:54):
been here that you know we'llbe like, ah, we need somebody
like that's bringing a ton ofcreativity, you know that's just
going to like throw crazy ideasout there.
Or like we need somebody thatis real excited about the
technical stuff, because we needhelp in the production area
with the technical stuff, youknow.
And so there have been timesthat we're like this is the type
of person we need.
But ultimately, like when youknow we have gone to hire
(14:15):
somebody, it has more to do withlike what Brent said.
It's like enthusiasm andversatility and like, you know,
are they going to be able tokind of figure some stuff out on
their own, because we don'thave a real specific training
structure in place for when,like, okay, we have a new person
, so-and-so is going to trainthem and then so-and-so is going
to work with them.
This way, it just is prettyorganic in terms of how they fit
(14:40):
in and to the whole process inthe office and everything.
And so, yeah, that ability tofigure it out on your own and
then also take, you know,feedback and work with people
and ask questions, and it'sreally important in a small
office that doesn't have a realspecific structure.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well, I mean I love it.
I mean it's the culture you'vecreated Versatility,
adaptability, positivity.
I mean it's the culture you'vecreated versatility,
adaptability, positivity.
I mean that's pretty hard tobeat.
I mean that sounds like a funplace to work.
So yeah, to me.
I mean there may be some peoplethat hate that, but that would
be.
You know, I'm one of those ideapeople.
So let me ask you so BEPIC issort of my acronym for our
(15:18):
business and I'm going to justgive you a.
You know, I'll give you whatthe letters are and then you
give me your thoughts, like aquick, sort of a quick fire
round of what it is.
Give me a word or a sentence ortwo about each one, so the B
stands for bring the energy.
What do you think about that,erin?
Each one, so the B stands forbring the energy.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
What do you think about that Erin Like with
respect to BCA, or just respectto the job, or what?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
However, you want to do it.
Just what do you think aboutenergy?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, I think it's really important, at least with
our clients, to kind of maintainthat energy and enthusiasm for,
regardless what the project isand where they're at in the
process, I think it's prettyimportant to maintain like the
energy for them, because it canbe a pretty difficult, grueling
process to go through, whetherit's commercial or residential,
and so just kind of beingsupportive with them and helping
them through that in anenergetic way maybe.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
It's a long haul for people.
You know some of ourresidential clients are in here
for almost a year and so there'sa project fatigue that happens.
And if the designer's notbringing the energy and you know
they're running out of energybecause of just the length and
the kind of nature of gettingsomething built in West North
Carolina like it definitelytakes a lot of energy to
enthusiastically get through it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It definitely takes a lot of energy and enthusiasm to
get through it.
Yeah, a lot of people don'trealize that building something
is kind of a short-term marriage, and you know I mean.
So I mean that's a good pointthat you've got to show up with
the energy to keep the processmoving, because there's going to
be lows right, there's going tobe highs, but there's going to
be lows.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
So it's pretty interesting.
For the most part it kind ofhappens organically, like it is
exciting when someone'sdesigning a building house, and
if it's exciting for us thenit's an honor for us to do it,
and so there's just kind of anatural energy and enthusiasm
that happens Like there aredefinitely dips, you know, when
it comes to hitting bumps alongthe way, but for the most part,
like this profession kind ofgenerates, that's kind of a big
(17:22):
deal in our profession.
Like Aaron was saying aboutlicensure, you really have to go
through a bachelor program, youhave to go through a master's
program or some combination ofthose, and that's a lot of
school for them.
And the back end of ourprofession doesn't have the same
financial rewards as some ofthe other ones where you go to
school for six or seven years.
So there is kind of a bigcommitment when it comes to just
(17:44):
the formal education and sogetting through that, getting to
the field, kind of takes aminute, especially, you know, in
today's terms, where there'sall these shortcuts and things
that can happen and they can dowithout all that process.
And so there's, you know,there's bachelors and masters,
there's internship, there's theexams, there's all these things
that you know, stand in the waybetween high school and being an
(18:04):
architect, and they're alldoable and helpful.
But then the real educationactually happens once you start.
School can only simulate realprojects so much, and so the
bulk of our education happens inthat first five years of being
in an office and sitting at thecomputer and going through the
process of a whole project andsending the computer and going
(18:26):
through the process of a wholeproject.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I would also add to that, like we kind of have to be
intentional about staying infront of the latest materials
and technologies and things thatare happening, because when
clients show up, lots of them dotheir own research, you know,
and they'll hear from theirfriends or whatever, and they
bring a new material or they askabout this new, you know, I
don't know wall assembly orsomething, and so we kind of
have to stay in front of thattoo.
So we don't look like we're, youknow, living in the past few
(18:51):
decades and haven't really keptup with things and the evolution
of all the different thingsthat go into construction,
whether it's a house orcommercial stuff, and on top of
that, like building code stuff,like that is just it's so
enormous, and so, whether it isresidential or commercial, like
the building code stuff is kindof evolving and that we have to
stay in front of because we'llscrew, you know, if we screw
(19:12):
that up, that's a big deal, andso, like every project we still
are learning, you know, allthese different kind of pieces
of it we have to keep, yeah,keep on top of it.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, I don't think the complexity of the building
code, so so it's codes, not justcodes.
I mean you guys work in a lotof jurisdictions.
They can be different.
I mean I know the northcarolina building code's one
thing, but then they've got theuh, then they've got it, for you
know all the jurisdictions.
So I mean it mean that's atough ask, so well done on that.
So the P is planning, so youguys do plans, so let's talk
(19:51):
about planning a little bit.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Planning is hard.
You know, there's this famousquote from I think it was Mike
Tyson, where everyone has a planto get punched in the face, you
know.
So there are several months, wecome in here with the.
There's a general plan, and youknow we have a big whiteboard,
you know, with a matrix ofwhat's going on and who's doing
what, and, um, you end up doinga lot of erasing and moving and
(20:16):
putting things here and puttingthings there.
Um, we have a general frameworkof a plan but, like I said,
like this is.
This is an environment here inasheville where things stop and
start with very little notice.
There's projects that aregung-ho and we've devoted
dedicated staff to them andwe're all ready to go, and then
we get a call that it's nothappening.
Or we get a call that someonewho mothballed their project two
(20:37):
years ago is ready to go, andso, um, we have a framework of a
plan and we have systems inplace to move things around, but
we can't ever look that far outand I think if we did, we'd
miss a lot of opportunities andwe'd end up scrambling.
So our plan is to have a looseplan.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I like it.
I like it a lot.
Okay, the C stands forcommitment.
Oh, I skipped I, let's do I, Iis inspiration.
Oh, I skipped I, let's do I, Iis inspiration.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Oh yeah, well gosh, there's inspiration everywhere.
I mean, especially now, withjust all the access to anything
you can find online, whetherit's Pinterest or Instagram or
anything, we're constantly beingflooded with inspiration in
terms of projects that would bereally cool, or ideas or or or
or things like that.
And then sometimes it's justlike the clients coming in that
(21:29):
have this really beautiful, umidea of what their project is
going to be, whether it's ahouse or commercial project or
whatever.
So that's also inspiring whenclients come in and they're so
passionate about whateverthey're going to do and, um,
it's not just about checkingboxes to get you know, the right
I don't know double oven in thekitchen or something.
So I think that we have a lotof sources of inspiration, yeah,
(21:52):
whether it's the media orclients, or just, yeah, being
around here.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I mean, obviously, around here, it's been this
super resilient community andpeople are resourceful, and
whether it's the, the thingsthat you know everybody has been
through, or also just this is ahard place to build, and so
people have to be somewhatcreative and, um, resilient, and
that's pretty um inspiring,let's say yeah, and if you're
not inspired by the just thenatural beauty we have here and,
(22:18):
as an architect in westernnorth carolina, like we're in a
pretty privileged place to havethe scenery and the landscape
and the resources we have andfor a small town, we have a ton
of architects and all the ones Iknow are inspiring and they
want to do things that aresustainable and ecological and
fit in the landscape and forlong-term planning, and so
(22:39):
there's a lot of people herethat are inspiring and
definitely the environment'sinspiring.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
No, I like it.
I like it.
Yeah, the C is commitment.
So what are your thoughts oncommitment?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Well, it's too late for me.
I've been doing this for 30years, so I'm committed and
can't do anything else.
So that just kind of happenedbecause it's hard to switch
gears at some point in your life.
So now I'm just kind ofcommitted to making sure
everyone here has a sustainablefuture and a fun place to work
and be able to live in Asheville, which is kind of a hard thing
(23:10):
to do in the service industry.
So I'm committed to seeing thisthrough and just kind of
building on what we've createdhere as far as generating ideas
and producing things that peopleneed to get through the process
.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Love it.
You got any more thoughts onthat, Erin?
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I mean I guess I can look at it like at more of a
micro level, just that you know,with each of the projects, like
it takes a certain level ofcommitment to stay invested in
it and to stay connected withthe client and as to bring the
same amount of enthusiasmtowards the end of the project
that we inevitably bring at thebeginning, because the beginning
(23:50):
is so exciting and it's all youknow, it's all brand new, we
just got you know.
And then towards the end, likeum, you know, like who's
mentioned that project fatigue,like I think you just it takes a
certain amount of commitment tojust stay invested and like say
, you know, keep up, up witheverything, keep up with the
client, and, um, kind of holdtheir hand through the process
from beginning to end yeah, no,I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So what's the next thing for the firm?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I guess you'll have to have us on next year and
we'll let you know.
There's a crazy word out therelike it um, we thought we'd
spend this whole year just doingflood repair and, um, helping
people dig out, you know, andthat's just been kind of a
process like people are waitingfor their money, people are
waiting to figure out what to do, um, how to rebuild in the
(24:40):
floodplain.
So we thought we kind of knewit was coming, um, and we are
doing some of that and you know,we thought we were going to be
doing you know one thing andthen you can look back over the
year and we've done somethingtotally different.
So I think the forecast forashtonville still pretty strong,
I think everyone still loves itand is committed to it, but we
(25:00):
have no idea what's going tohappen you got any thoughts,
aaron?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
um no, I mean, we're constantly brainstorming like,
oh, do this, do this, do this,you know?
But it's like it, you know.
It's kind of probably just thesame way that company has
evolved since he started.
It's like things happen kind oforganically and like it just
whatever.
There is some like definitevalue to intentionality and like
picking a path and like goingin a direction, but also there's
(25:33):
a lot of value to just beingopen to kind of whatever's
happening in front of you andfollowing those signs and those
paths and you know, yeah, so,yeah, a plan is good, but I
don't know.
Yeah, I don't have much more.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, I was reading a book the other day and they
were talking about like.
What they were really talkingabout was test and measure.
They used an analogy of likefiring a bullet in a direction
and seeing if it hit something,and then, if it did, then you
could fire a cannonball, inother words.
But if you fired and missed alot, then it was sort of just
(26:09):
test and measure.
So I think that's probably away you know try a path and see
what happens, try another pathand see what happens, and then
you can go all in on a path thatseems to be working, you know.
So I think that's actually aplan that you know, a way to
plan, you know for the other.
Third, so the last thing is howdo people get in touch with you
(26:30):
?
It's the best way.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Well, like the website has all the contact
information on it, and or we'redown on the South Slope, Like
you know, we do have people stopby.
We don't have cold callsnecessarily, but we're always
open if people want to come inand talk or call us up or email
or whatever.
Yeah, we're pretty availableand responsive, I would say.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, so what's the website?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's wwwbcavlcom.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Bcavlcom bcavlcom Got it.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And we keep overhead low.
So if you call the phone numberit's just my cell phone.
So you can talk to theadministrative people.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Well, that makes sense to me.
If you want to chat, give thema call.
Hey look, really appreciate you.
This is a fantastic story I'veenjoyed.
I appreciate you guys beingpart of the community and all
you're doing, and we certainlywish you continued positivity
(27:38):
and adaptability and flexibilityand all that stuff so
interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Thanks, very much, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Hey, and until next time, all the best.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Thanks, bye.
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic
Entrepreneurs.
I'm Bill Gilliland, your host.
I am the principal at ActionCoach, business Growth Partners
and one of the founders of theAsheville Business Summit.
I am super pumped.
Today I have Brent and Aaronfrom BCA Architecture and Design
.
I can't wait to hear theirstory.
So welcome to the podcast.
(00:23):
Tell us a little bit aboutyourselves and how you got here.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Oh, I'm Brent Campbell.
I'm the owner and principal ofthe architecture firm.
We started this in 2007.
I've been working in Nashvillefor about three or four years at
some other firms and learningand after traveling around and
working and going to school indifferent places, and I started
(00:50):
this in 2007, the day that therecession hit, which was not
great timing, but it worked outas you're kind of learning how
to start something new.
It's probably, in retrospect,good timing, but over the years
we've've grown to staff of eightand um done a lot of exciting
projects and had a lot of funalong the way, and um plan to
(01:13):
keep it going here for a littlebit um, I'm erin foy.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I'm the other architect in the office and I
joined this firm in 2015 afterworking at another firm here in
Asheville yeah, from here, grewup here, left for school a
couple different times and cameback and then left again, and
it's just a good place to be anda good place to practice
(01:41):
architecture and, yeah, that'swhere I'm at.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, it is.
I mean, it seems like there's alot of interesting projects and
a lot of interesting thingsgoing on around Asheville and
western North Carolina.
So I agree with you, it must be, from a design standpoint, it
must be a really interestingplace to practice.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, and it's continuously evolving.
I mean from well, especiallysince I don't know from the
recession to through COVID,through Helene.
This is just.
You know, it's always changingin terms of what we're doing and
who's coming to town and who'sinterested in building here and
what projects are happening andwho can afford to do what, and
so, yeah, it's definitely it'sconstantly evolving.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, I think we're.
You know Asheville I mean,helene, you know, obviously was
a setback but it's.
But you know we're back on therise again, so it's, it's, it's
pretty, it's pretty cool, it's apretty cool place.
Let me ask you a question Ifyou had to start it over again,
what would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I don't know.
I think it's been such a funand wild and diverse ride and I
don't know if I would.
I would probably try to figureout how to make our systems more
efficient and you know justsome monetary things about.
You know I have no businessbackground, so that took a
(03:06):
pretty big learning curve.
But as far as the experience, Idon't know if that would change
a whole lot because it's justkind of evolved from just being
a reactionary to whatever kindof the community was needing and
wanting Like for a while.
We've done a lot of smallcommercial projects when that
was been.
We've done a lot of residentialprojects.
We've met a lot of smallcommercial projects when that
(03:29):
was been.
We've done a lot of residentialprojects.
We've met a lot of really funbusiness owners along the way
and created long-termrelationships with repeat
clients.
And yeah, there's definitelymicro things that have changed.
But as far as the big pictureof just kind of feeling our way
through this and becoming a partof the community and touching
so many different parts andprojects and meeting so many
people, it's been a pretty goodexperience.
So I'd be hesitant to tinkerwith it.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, I get that a lot.
Actually, I think theexperiences we have make us who
we are, so I do get that.
Hey, I might do this or I mighttweak this thing, like you just
said, like I might have workedon systems earlier or I might
have, you know, had somebusiness education or something
along those lines.
So along the way there had tobe learnings.
(04:11):
So what are some of the biggestlearnings that you guys have
had?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
There's been several.
I mean, for me you know I'vebeen here since the beginning,
obviously been here since thebeginning obviously it was a lot
of um, just realizing the valueof having a team and letting
people excel at what they'regood at and kind of letting go
and kind of utilizing thebenefits of having a team um and
(04:37):
just the strength of that andthe support they can get from a,
you know, studio environment.
Know a lot of architects kind ofwork in one room by themselves
and I'd say the majority in thecountry are sole proprietors and
that's just a kind of adifferent existence and I think
there's a lot of value on that.
But what was reallyenlightening for me was just the
(04:57):
value of kind of a hive mindand working together and sharing
information and supporting eachother and kind of letting
everyone in the office haveownership over projects and
being accountable.
So like that was reallyenlightening for me.
And I actually learned thatfrom when I moved to town.
I worked for a really goodarchitect here named Robert
(05:18):
Griffin and he sort of had thatsame approach where he gave us
so much autonomy andindependence and kind of helped
us along the way and it was just, you know, I never had an
experience like that, where allthe team members are accountable
for what happens, and so Ilearned a lot from that.
Yeah, and I love that, so tellus about your team Well it's me
(05:40):
and Aaron's, a licensedarchitect that oversees a lot of
projects and designs a lot ofprojects, and we have, let's see
, we have an intern and Erin's,a licensed architect that
oversees a lot of projects anddesigns a lot of projects, and
we have, let's see, we have anintern and we have an interior
designer, which has been a lotof fun to have that component in
our office.
She brings a lot of experienceand diversity to our projects
(06:03):
and we have several designersseveral I four designs yeah that
kind of all manage independentprojects and work together and
collaborate.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So what's the difference between like
designers and what y'all do?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
um it well, it um has to do mostly with licensure and
passing the tests and goingthrough the steps to get your
license.
So the other kind of there'sthe interior designer, and so
that's where her background is,her educational background is,
and then there's an intern whowent to architecture school but
(06:39):
hasn't worked long enough andpassed all the tests to be
licensed enough and passed allthe tests to be licensed.
And then there's four otherdesigners who all also went to
architecture school but thenjust didn't go through the
licensure process or haven'tgone through it yet.
And so, like, with a license,you just there's more liability,
there's more responsibility,but then there's also the
(07:01):
capacity to practice solo and docommercial stuff and whatnot.
So you have more options with alicense but you also have, I
think, a lot more responsibilityand liability.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Got it, I got it.
So what are some of the commonmisconceptions about running an
architecture firm and how wouldyou address those?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I would say, and not that they're misconceptions, but
just a lot of the public issort of confused about what we
do.
Like a lot of the clients thatwe get they've never worked with
an architect before and reallydon't even know what they're
stepping into or how much itcosts or how long does it take
and do I even need an architect?
And so there's just a generallack of just understanding about
(07:51):
our field just in the generalpublic.
And that's understandable,because most people go through
their whole lives and don't hirean architect to do anything.
Like we're not required to helpyou design your house, or you
know, unless you're starting abusiness or designing a big
custom home.
Like a lot of people don'tinteract with us, you know.
But, um, for some reasonAsheville is such a small town
but we end up working a lot ofprojects.
(08:12):
We're kind of a highlyregulated, um sort of building
department here and so that kindof brings us and the different
architects around town into alot of projects to figure out
life, safety and occupancy andall the technical side of things
, and so and that's just kind ofsomething people aren't used to
and it's, you know, if someonewants to open a coffee shop.
They think they can just rent aspace and open it up and start
(08:34):
selling coffee.
But there's just a lot ofpaperwork between that and
opening up, and so we ended uphaving to explain that process
quite a bit and saying withhomeowners like, what value do
we bring and how do we get youfrom you know your ideas on
Pinterest to then startingconstruction of the home.
So no, there's a misconception,there's just a lot of
(08:55):
explaining that has to kind ofgo on, because people don't
normally interact witharchitects on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, well, it's a project-based profession and I
mean most people would do in alifetime, maybe one, maybe two
projects.
I mean they're obviously theones that do multiple projects,
developers and those kind ofpeople.
But I mean it's got to be.
Yeah, I get it.
(09:22):
I mean you guys do the stuffall day long and then most
people are walking in, sort ofignorant of how it works.
So, yeah, it makes a lot ofsense.
I like that.
I like that.
So you guys have obviouslygrown.
I mean you started with you andyou started in the recession,
and that's I like that.
So you guys have obviouslygrown.
I mean it started with you andyou started in the recession,
and that's now eight people.
So what do you attribute thatgrowth to?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I would um, there was no real strategy.
Like this has all just kind ofbeen reactionary and kind of
safe.
It's like, um, you know wedidn't grow.
And then find the projects.
It was more like, oh gosh, wehave an overwhelming number of
projects that we definitely wantto do and we're not going to
not do these.
They're incredibleopportunities and so then we
would grow to match thatopportunity.
(10:06):
So I'm not sure if that's kindof the right path or not.
It's kind of a safer way togrow, rather than, you know,
projecting all this volume andstaffing up and that sort of
thing.
And so I would say there wasn'tany real strategy there.
It was just me seeing theseopportunities to have a really
(10:26):
fun career and touch all thesedifferent projects and be a part
of it and then having enoughpeople and resources to do that.
So that's kind of what westruggled with for a long time.
It was like we have theseprojects, how are we going to
get them done?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, I have a slightly different perspective,
just coming in after he had beendoing it for eight years, and I
think that part of what haslike contributed to the growth
is just like a positiveexperience that previous clients
had or his friends had, or youknow people around town, and so
that kind of word of mouth,reputation spreads and it
(11:06):
creates more projects and itcreates repeat clients, and so
it's like you know, if you offera positive service and people
have a good experience, theneither they tell their friend or
they come back for the nextproject or whatever.
So I think when I started thatwas my perception of like well,
he just has this really goodbase and has a good reputation,
you know, and so I think thathas kind of continued and I
(11:27):
think that's contributed to thegrowth, whether you know that
was real intentional or not.
Like I think that was a bigpiece of it, cause, like, as far
as marketing goes, like youknow, we've never been super
aggressive.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Um, or competent yeah well, no, it's all right, I
mean it.
It seems like you've staffed upas you needed to, but that
positivity and that sort of Iget it.
You guys are seem like you havefun.
I mean, enjoy what you do andlike being at work and love
doing things.
I mean I've always thoughtarchitecture was a cool
profession anyway, because youget to, I mean you can design
(12:01):
something, and then it's therefor a while and you can say, hey
, that's cool, that's somethingI had something to do with.
Creating.
This, you know, beautiful pieceof something, you know,
whatever it is, whether it's abuilding or house or whatever it
is, I've always thought thatwas cool.
You know, I don't, I don't havethe aesthetic, uh, I I might,
(12:24):
might, might, give fly otherplaces, but uh, but I certainly
do appreciate what, um, what youguys, what you guys are doing
out there.
So let me ask you somethingwhen you are looking for an
employee, what are you lookingfor?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
That's a good question.
Um, it's mostly, uh, where inour realm of what we do?
Um, it's mostly um versatilityand positivity and, I guess,
adaptability, because there aredays in here when you have no
(12:57):
idea what's going to happen andyou kind of have to be flexible
enough to shift gears and changehats, and I mean the projects
we have are just all over theboard.
You know we do medicalfacilities and barns and houses
and greenhouses, and you knowrestaurants and bars, and you
kind of have to be prettyflexible and open-minded.
(13:19):
And so I guess, um, all thetechnical stuff you can kind of
learn, and so a lot of peoplethat have come in here had no
experience with the software andum, kind of very little
experience with projectmanagement.
But that's that's stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
That's all pretty teachable if you put the hours
on, and so what I've found isjust it's more the mindset of um
wanting to get after it andbeing positive and being able to
communicate, kind of all theintangibles and there's been
different times like I thinkalong the way at least that I've
(13:54):
been here that you know we'llbe like, ah, we need somebody
like that's bringing a ton ofcreativity, you know that's just
going to like throw crazy ideasout there.
Or like we need somebody thatis real excited about the
technical stuff, because we needhelp in the production area
with the technical stuff, youknow.
And so there have been timesthat we're like this is the type
of person we need.
But ultimately, like when youknow we have gone to hire
(14:15):
somebody, it has more to do withlike what Brent said.
It's like enthusiasm andversatility and like, you know,
are they going to be able tokind of figure some stuff out on
their own, because we don'thave a real specific training
structure in place for when,like, okay, we have a new person
, so-and-so is going to trainthem and then so-and-so is going
to work with them.
This way, it just is prettyorganic in terms of how they fit
(14:40):
in and to the whole process inthe office and everything.
And so, yeah, that ability tofigure it out on your own and
then also take, you know,feedback and work with people
and ask questions, and it'sreally important in a small
office that doesn't have a realspecific structure.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well, I mean I love it.
I mean it's the culture you'vecreated Versatility,
adaptability, positivity.
I mean it's the culture you'vecreated versatility,
adaptability, positivity.
I mean that's pretty hard tobeat.
I mean that sounds like a funplace to work.
So yeah, to me.
I mean there may be some peoplethat hate that, but that would
be.
You know, I'm one of those ideapeople.
So let me ask you so BEPIC issort of my acronym for our
(15:18):
business and I'm going to justgive you a.
You know, I'll give you whatthe letters are and then you
give me your thoughts, like aquick, sort of a quick fire
round of what it is.
Give me a word or a sentence ortwo about each one, so the B
stands for bring the energy.
What do you think about that,erin?
Each one, so the B stands forbring the energy.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
What do you think about that Erin Like with
respect to BCA, or just respectto the job, or what?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
However, you want to do it.
Just what do you think aboutenergy?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, I think it's really important, at least with
our clients, to kind of maintainthat energy and enthusiasm for,
regardless what the project isand where they're at in the
process, I think it's prettyimportant to maintain like the
energy for them, because it canbe a pretty difficult, grueling
process to go through, whetherit's commercial or residential,
and so just kind of beingsupportive with them and helping
them through that in anenergetic way maybe.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
It's a long haul for people.
You know some of ourresidential clients are in here
for almost a year and so there'sa project fatigue that happens.
And if the designer's notbringing the energy and you know
they're running out of energybecause of just the length and
the kind of nature of gettingsomething built in West North
Carolina like it definitelytakes a lot of energy to
enthusiastically get through it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It definitely takes a lot of energy and enthusiasm to
get through it.
Yeah, a lot of people don'trealize that building something
is kind of a short-term marriage, and you know I mean.
So I mean that's a good pointthat you've got to show up with
the energy to keep the processmoving, because there's going to
be lows right, there's going tobe highs, but there's going to
be lows.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
So it's pretty interesting.
For the most part it kind ofhappens organically, like it is
exciting when someone'sdesigning a building house, and
if it's exciting for us thenit's an honor for us to do it,
and so there's just kind of anatural energy and enthusiasm
that happens Like there aredefinitely dips, you know, when
it comes to hitting bumps alongthe way, but for the most part,
like this profession kind ofgenerates, that's kind of a big
(17:22):
deal in our profession.
Like Aaron was saying aboutlicensure, you really have to go
through a bachelor program, youhave to go through a master's
program or some combination ofthose, and that's a lot of
school for them.
And the back end of ourprofession doesn't have the same
financial rewards as some ofthe other ones where you go to
school for six or seven years.
So there is kind of a bigcommitment when it comes to just
(17:44):
the formal education and sogetting through that, getting to
the field, kind of takes aminute, especially, you know, in
today's terms, where there'sall these shortcuts and things
that can happen and they can dowithout all that process.
And so there's, you know,there's bachelors and masters,
there's internship, there's theexams, there's all these things
that you know, stand in the waybetween high school and being an
(18:04):
architect, and they're alldoable and helpful.
But then the real educationactually happens once you start.
School can only simulate realprojects so much, and so the
bulk of our education happens inthat first five years of being
in an office and sitting at thecomputer and going through the
process of a whole project andsending the computer and going
(18:26):
through the process of a wholeproject.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I would also add to that, like we kind of have to be
intentional about staying infront of the latest materials
and technologies and things thatare happening, because when
clients show up, lots of them dotheir own research, you know,
and they'll hear from theirfriends or whatever, and they
bring a new material or they askabout this new, you know, I
don't know wall assembly orsomething, and so we kind of
have to stay in front of thattoo.
So we don't look like we're, youknow, living in the past few
(18:51):
decades and haven't really keptup with things and the evolution
of all the different thingsthat go into construction,
whether it's a house orcommercial stuff, and on top of
that, like building code stuff,like that is just it's so
enormous, and so, whether it isresidential or commercial, like
the building code stuff is kindof evolving and that we have to
stay in front of because we'llscrew, you know, if we screw
(19:12):
that up, that's a big deal, andso, like every project we still
are learning, you know, allthese different kind of pieces
of it we have to keep, yeah,keep on top of it.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, I don't think the complexity of the building
code, so so it's codes, not justcodes.
I mean you guys work in a lotof jurisdictions.
They can be different.
I mean I know the northcarolina building code's one
thing, but then they've got theuh, then they've got it, for you
know all the jurisdictions.
So I mean it mean that's atough ask, so well done on that.
So the P is planning, so youguys do plans, so let's talk
(19:51):
about planning a little bit.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Planning is hard.
You know, there's this famousquote from I think it was Mike
Tyson, where everyone has a planto get punched in the face, you
know.
So there are several months, wecome in here with the.
There's a general plan, and youknow we have a big whiteboard,
you know, with a matrix ofwhat's going on and who's doing
what, and, um, you end up doinga lot of erasing and moving and
(20:16):
putting things here and puttingthings there.
Um, we have a general frameworkof a plan but, like I said,
like this is.
This is an environment here inasheville where things stop and
start with very little notice.
There's projects that aregung-ho and we've devoted
dedicated staff to them andwe're all ready to go, and then
we get a call that it's nothappening.
Or we get a call that someonewho mothballed their project two
(20:37):
years ago is ready to go, andso, um, we have a framework of a
plan and we have systems inplace to move things around, but
we can't ever look that far outand I think if we did, we'd
miss a lot of opportunities andwe'd end up scrambling.
So our plan is to have a looseplan.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I like it.
I like it a lot.
Okay, the C stands forcommitment.
Oh, I skipped I, let's do I, Iis inspiration.
Oh, I skipped I, let's do I, Iis inspiration.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Oh yeah, well gosh, there's inspiration everywhere.
I mean, especially now, withjust all the access to anything
you can find online, whetherit's Pinterest or Instagram or
anything, we're constantly beingflooded with inspiration in
terms of projects that would bereally cool, or ideas or or or
or things like that.
And then sometimes it's justlike the clients coming in that
(21:29):
have this really beautiful, umidea of what their project is
going to be, whether it's ahouse or commercial project or
whatever.
So that's also inspiring whenclients come in and they're so
passionate about whateverthey're going to do and, um,
it's not just about checkingboxes to get you know, the right
I don't know double oven in thekitchen or something.
So I think that we have a lotof sources of inspiration, yeah,
(21:52):
whether it's the media orclients, or just, yeah, being
around here.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I mean, obviously, around here, it's been this
super resilient community andpeople are resourceful, and
whether it's the, the thingsthat you know everybody has been
through, or also just this is ahard place to build, and so
people have to be somewhatcreative and, um, resilient, and
that's pretty um inspiring,let's say yeah, and if you're
not inspired by the just thenatural beauty we have here and,
(22:18):
as an architect in westernnorth carolina, like we're in a
pretty privileged place to havethe scenery and the landscape
and the resources we have andfor a small town, we have a ton
of architects and all the ones Iknow are inspiring and they
want to do things that aresustainable and ecological and
fit in the landscape and forlong-term planning, and so
(22:39):
there's a lot of people herethat are inspiring and
definitely the environment'sinspiring.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
No, I like it.
I like it.
Yeah, the C is commitment.
So what are your thoughts oncommitment?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Well, it's too late for me.
I've been doing this for 30years, so I'm committed and
can't do anything else.
So that just kind of happenedbecause it's hard to switch
gears at some point in your life.
So now I'm just kind ofcommitted to making sure
everyone here has a sustainablefuture and a fun place to work
and be able to live in Asheville, which is kind of a hard thing
(23:10):
to do in the service industry.
So I'm committed to seeing thisthrough and just kind of
building on what we've createdhere as far as generating ideas
and producing things that peopleneed to get through the process
.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Love it.
You got any more thoughts onthat, Erin?
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I mean I guess I can look at it like at more of a
micro level, just that you know,with each of the projects, like
it takes a certain level ofcommitment to stay invested in
it and to stay connected withthe client and as to bring the
same amount of enthusiasmtowards the end of the project
that we inevitably bring at thebeginning, because the beginning
(23:50):
is so exciting and it's all youknow, it's all brand new, we
just got you know.
And then towards the end, likeum, you know, like who's
mentioned that project fatigue,like I think you just it takes a
certain amount of commitment tojust stay invested and like say
, you know, keep up, up witheverything, keep up with the
client, and, um, kind of holdtheir hand through the process
from beginning to end yeah, no,I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So what's the next thing for the firm?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I guess you'll have to have us on next year and
we'll let you know.
There's a crazy word out therelike it um, we thought we'd
spend this whole year just doingflood repair and, um, helping
people dig out, you know, andthat's just been kind of a
process like people are waitingfor their money, people are
waiting to figure out what to do, um, how to rebuild in the
(24:40):
floodplain.
So we thought we kind of knewit was coming, um, and we are
doing some of that and you know,we thought we were going to be
doing you know one thing andthen you can look back over the
year and we've done somethingtotally different.
So I think the forecast forashtonville still pretty strong,
I think everyone still loves itand is committed to it, but we
(25:00):
have no idea what's going tohappen you got any thoughts,
aaron?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
um no, I mean, we're constantly brainstorming like,
oh, do this, do this, do this,you know?
But it's like it, you know.
It's kind of probably just thesame way that company has
evolved since he started.
It's like things happen kind oforganically and like it just
whatever.
There is some like definitevalue to intentionality and like
picking a path and like goingin a direction, but also there's
(25:33):
a lot of value to just beingopen to kind of whatever's
happening in front of you andfollowing those signs and those
paths and you know, yeah, so,yeah, a plan is good, but I
don't know.
Yeah, I don't have much more.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, I was reading a book the other day and they
were talking about like.
What they were really talkingabout was test and measure.
They used an analogy of likefiring a bullet in a direction
and seeing if it hit something,and then, if it did, then you
could fire a cannonball, inother words.
But if you fired and missed alot, then it was sort of just
(26:09):
test and measure.
So I think that's probably away you know try a path and see
what happens, try another pathand see what happens, and then
you can go all in on a path thatseems to be working, you know.
So I think that's actually aplan that you know, a way to
plan, you know for the other.
Third, so the last thing is howdo people get in touch with you
(26:30):
?
It's the best way.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Well, like the website has all the contact
information on it, and or we'redown on the South Slope, Like
you know, we do have people stopby.
We don't have cold callsnecessarily, but we're always
open if people want to come inand talk or call us up or email
or whatever.
Yeah, we're pretty availableand responsive, I would say.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, so what's the website?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's wwwbcavlcom.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Bcavlcom bcavlcom Got it.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And we keep overhead low.
So if you call the phone numberit's just my cell phone.
So you can talk to theadministrative people.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Well, that makes sense to me.
If you want to chat, give thema call.
Hey look, really appreciate you.
This is a fantastic story I'veenjoyed.
I appreciate you guys beingpart of the community and all
you're doing, and we certainlywish you continued positivity
(27:38):
and adaptability and flexibilityand all that stuff so
interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Thanks, very much, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Hey, and until next time, all the best.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Thanks, bye.
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