Ever wonder why a $150/hour service call doesn’t mean the owner makes $150? We pull back the panel with Thomas Fleming, president of Strategic Electrical Solutions, to explore the real economics of the trades—7,000 hours of experience, a daunting license exam, payroll and workers’ comp, trucks and tools, and the thin margins that still have to fund safety, training, and great service. Thomas blends three decades in the field with nights teaching at the community college, turning education into a competitive edge and a pipeline for much‑needed talent.
We walk through how he balances commercial projects with custom and semi‑custom residential work, using design‑led thinking to elevate lighting plans, smart home integrations, access control, and CCTV. Thomas shares why he leans on networking over mass advertising, building growth through chambers, local groups, and trusted contractor partnerships that trade referrals and stand behind each other’s work. He’s candid about cash flow, clear about the difference between fair pricing and price‑book excess, and practical about communicating timelines when emergencies collide with reality.
Hiring and culture get the same strategic treatment: show up, think clearly, repair before replace, and treat flexibility as a two‑way street. We dig into troubleshooting as a process—measure, isolate, fix the cause—and how that discipline reduces callbacks and builds long‑term trust. Thomas also explains the thinking behind the name Strategic Electrical Solutions and why a mission‑driven brand beats a vanity label, especially when succession and future growth are on the table. If you care about craftsmanship, honest pricing, and partnerships that last, this conversation is your blueprint.
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Bill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bill Gilliland (00:02):
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode
of Epic Entrepreneurs.
I am Bill Gilliland, your host.
I am the principal of ActionCoach Business Growth Partners
and one of the founders of theAsheville Business Summit.
I am super pumped today.
I've got a really cool guest.
He's joined the Action Coachcommunity.
We got Thomas Fleming fromStrategic Electrical Solutions.
(00:24):
So Thomas, tell us who you areand a little bit about yourself
and your company and you knowhow you serve the community.
Thomas Fleming (00:33):
So again, Thomas Fleming, and I'm the president
and owner of StrategicElectrical Solutions.
Been in this industry for closeto 30 years now.
So second generation ofelectrical contractor.
Spent a lot of time in thefield, spent a lot of time
educating myself along withothers.
(00:53):
We've kind of taken this on asabout, well, we're in year three
now, so we're at that hump, aseverybody would say.
It's make or break time.
Just really serving ourcustomers with exceptional
service and the best value thatthe market's going to let us
(01:14):
allow right now to doeverything.
Just um focusing a lot on ourtrying to help our customers in
not just their needs, but alsothe education of what is
actually behind the scenes intheir electrical system is
(01:35):
something they use every daywithout even knowing.
Bill Gilliland (01:39):
Yeah, so so Thomas, I want to dig into that
a little bit.
You said you're secondgeneration, you've been in this
30 years, and then you saidthree years.
Tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Thomas Fleming (01:49):
So my my father was licensed.
I believe I saw his in1980-ish.
I know he was in business inthe 80s.
Um, so I was young, wanted togo with him, spent a lot of time
with him out in the field.
Loved doing it, loved theaspect of harnessing something
that nobody can see, but you candefinitely feel it whenever
(02:12):
it's uh not done properly.
Um and really just took took tothat.
Um the I don't know what it is,don't know why.
Some days I'm going, why did Ido this?
But other days, you know, Iactually enjoy I enjoy what I
do, and and it helps me everyday to keep pushing through.
(02:35):
Um him and I were in business,I tell everybody, three weeks
before prior, if anybodyremembers 2008, what happened
then, and we survived throughabout 2013 when uh had an um
offer come along that I justcouldn't turn down.
So he was at the age ofretirement, and we kind of
(02:59):
parted ways, let him do what hewanted to with it, went on later
on with various companies, grewfrom uh you know, foreman to
superintendent, project manager,estimator to pretty much
running everything with it, andgot laid off about a little
after 2020 when everythinghappened on in that session and
(03:23):
year, and said, Well, I might aswell just try it again.
So um went back and got mylicense after all those years,
opened our doors, and here weare today, just trying to hump
along.
Bill Gilliland (03:39):
Perfect, perfect.
I love it, I love it.
It's a it's a great background.
So, who do you serve?
Thomas Fleming (03:45):
Uh is North, we're we're North Carolina,
unlimited license for for thestate of North Carolina.
Our real area that we focus onis the Piedmont Triad.
Uh, we're based out ofWinston-Salem, so Winston-Salem,
Greensboro, High Point,surrounding areas, Stokes
County, Yadkin County, Davy is abig one.
(04:08):
Iredale, we've done some workin.
We've we've even traveled asfar as uh Raleigh, Durham, and
Lenore.
So that kind of gives you a bigwide advance of of what our
coverage is and and the peoplewho find us who want us to do
the work.
Bill Gilliland (04:23):
So we're so are you mostly residential, or are
you doing commercial or both?
We do a little bit of both.
Thomas Fleming (04:30):
Uh my background is primarily in commercial, and
as much as I love it, there aretimes that the commercial does
do some issues with our cashflow.
Um we're all the guys that Ihave worked for me, they
basically have a background incommercial, so we try to stick a
(04:51):
lot with that.
However, now that we're um withthe way the market and
everything is, and we just gotto be multifaceted.
We're looking for uh goodcustom to semi-custom home
builders.
Get in, help them to actually,yes, they have a great design
(05:12):
team on the finishes andcounters and everything else.
Our expertise can come in.
Helping with the lightingdesign, have help to actually
make some of that pop wheneverwe're we're looking at those
design considerations they pickout.
Um smart homes, uh, accesscontrol alternatives, uh
(05:36):
security, not so much as far asthe burglar alarm, but close uh
CCTV or premise video, so thatyou know everything is attached
to that customer.
So they they can monitor what'sgoing on in their house.
Bill Gilliland (05:52):
Yeah, no, I got it.
I got it.
Well, let me ask you somebusiness questions.
I think we got the idea.
I mean, basically, you're youyou're most you're like an
electrical, you're like just anelectrical subcontractor in a
way.
Thomas Fleming (06:04):
And yeah, we're we're a contractor.
We do a lot with uh generalcontractors, but a lot of
service calls with homeownersand upgrades.
Bill Gilliland (06:14):
So yeah, we work with everybody.
So you do both.
You got so you got service andsubcontracting.
Oh, yes.
Absolutely.
If it's electrical, you can doit.
I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I love it.
I love it.
So let me ask you something.
I mean, if you had to startover again, what would you do
differently?
Thomas Fleming (06:32):
Oh, I would I would probably have a little bit
more money in the bank um to tomake sure that we have
everything together, a littlebit more cushion on the
entrepreneurial end of wherewe're we are in the you know,
cash flow crunches at times, andand sometimes that does affect
everything.
(06:53):
Um really doing anything elseover again, I don't even think I
would open my company up anysooner than what I have, just
because of the knowledge that Iacquired over um throughout the
years.
Um, another fun fact is I'mactually instruct uh an
instructor at the communitycollege here, and I have some of
(07:17):
my students ask, well, whatabout my license?
What about my license?
And and the answer to that isyes, the license exam is is
difficult, but that's actuallythe easiest part of the business
in itself is having thatlicense.
Um without the businessknowledge, without knowing how
(07:39):
business operates and cashflows, and making sure that you
have everything there.
I've I've seen a lot of peoplewho have gotten gotten their
license, opened up a company,and failed within a few years
just because of the businessaspect.
So probably one thing I'd dodifferently be get a little bit
(08:01):
more business-minded coursesbehind me and and take it in
that realm.
Bill Gilliland (08:06):
Yeah, got it.
No, I like it.
Yeah, business, yeah, got toget the knowledge, gotta get you
got to get the learning beforeyou can do the earning.
So, yeah, it's good.
So speaking of that, what havebeen some of your bigger
learnings as an owner and anemployer?
Thomas Fleming (08:23):
Oh, what uh payroll actually cost and
involve.
Man, that is that is a funtopic.
Workman's comp andunderstanding how all that's
billed, how all that does affectall the bottom line, uh, just
the taxes, keeping up witheverything, just making sure
(08:43):
that all of those items thatUncle Sam and the state want to
make sure that you have, uhmaking sure those considerations
are made.
So, you know, outside of whatour pricing is for a project,
making sure that we we haveenough in there.
(09:05):
You know, again, it is abusiness, and I tell people that
I should file as a nonprofitsometimes, but it is a business,
and it is a delicate act of youknow, what what do we charge as
a business, and what should usas the entrepreneur, owner, and
(09:27):
the the qualified person, whatshould we actually we don't want
to disconnect with ourcustomers of the customer going,
wow, this is an astronomicallyhigh price for a service where
again we are providing a serviceand we are doing exceptional
quality to make sure that in theend we are protecting the lives
(09:50):
and property of thoseindividuals.
Bill Gilliland (09:53):
Yeah, a lot of people don't actually understand
what all has to go into it.
I mean, I don't even think theyunderstand the licensing.
I mean, you guys you gotta havea lot of hours of experience
before you I mean, you can takethe exam, but you you you can't
get your license until you havetill you've put in the hours.
Thomas Fleming (10:10):
So that's it.
It it is 7,000 hours for thestate of North Carolina.
Other states have 10,000 hourson the job.
And honestly, there's there'sstill a lot of people out there
who they cannot pass the test onthe first, second, or even
third attempt at times.
Bill Gilliland (10:27):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, 7,000 hours, youcan do the math.
I mean, that's that's overthree years.
It's it's about four years iswhat it averaged into.
I mean, the average the averagething is, you know, on a
40-hour week, it's 2,080 a year.
So you know, that's that's yougotta have you gotta have 7,000,
you gotta work four hours.
That's a tough profession toget licensed in.
Thomas Fleming (10:48):
It's it is it and the the exam and the the
math and everything else that wehave to go through, and it is
it is a daunting exam.
Um kind of one of the reasonswhy it took me so long.
I was honestly, I was scared ofit.
Bill Gilliland (11:05):
So Yeah, well, I mean, it's certainly that can
be done.
It's just a matter of uh of youknow putting yourself into it.
But you know, you gotta wantit.
If you if you if you reallywant it, you gotta do it.
So and then and then thebusiness side of it that you
talked about, I love that.
So uh what are you what aresome common misconceptions about
running a business?
Thomas Fleming (11:27):
Uh that that us as the owner has has it made.
Um the biggest thing, and and Iagain I go back to educating my
customers with it, especiallysome of the my service
customers, you know, our billrate is is kind of in line with
(11:48):
with a lot of the others.
You know, it's it's anywherebetween 130 to 150 an hour.
Well, when when we talk aboutthat, you you kind of think,
wow, you're making 130 to 150 anhour.
Well, not exactly.
You know, I've got to pay myemployees, whoever are going out
(12:09):
to there, you know, they'regonna make a good living because
part of this is thatemployee-employer relationship,
they're relying on me to makesure that they have what they
need.
You know, I can't underpaythem.
So, you know, when we look at$30, $40 an hour for for a
technician to go out, take thatoff the top, you know, now we're
(12:31):
at $100.
Government's gonna get theircut of it at 30%.
So out of that $100, we'regonna have another, you know,
$30 uh or more out of there withthat cut.
So now, you know, each one ofthese steps is is kind of
dwindling us down.
So, you know, at the end of theday, it's I look at a lot of
(12:54):
these companies now who,especially some of the the ones
who have gone to these pricebooks and this flatten rate
pricing, and I look at those andI'm going, yes, they're out
there to make money and they'remaking good money at it, but at
what expense to who?
You know, is the customerdoesn't understand what all
(13:16):
going on and what all it costs.
We do on there, but at the sametime, again, it comes back to
to my biggest balancing act iswhat can what can I do for a
customer to make sure they'retaken care of and not break
their bank also.
And and it all comes back tothe full circle of what we're
(13:38):
talking about is the what anhourly rate actually includes in
it.
There is not really a wholelot, us for the ones who are
bearing the burden of theinsurance, the workmen's comp
worrying every night of what iswhat could go wrong or what will
(13:59):
go wrong to really make surethat at the end of the day that
we're we're providing for ourfamily also.
Bill Gilliland (14:05):
Yeah, well, you got yeah, I mean you didn't even
talk about taxes, you didn'teven talk about um overheads,
you didn't talk about insurance,you didn't talk about rent, you
didn't talk about uh you knowtrucks aren't free, fans aren't
free.
But you know, you got you gotthose payments.
You got you know, so thereactually when you sit down and
think it's it's interesting tome.
(14:26):
Well, that's high.
They don't know what they youknow, it's it's it's not.
I mean, what we what what'swhat's right is it's gotta be a
win-win.
It's gotta be fair for thecustomer and fair for you and
fair for your team.
Exactly.
So it's gotta it's gotta beyeah.
Thomas Fleming (14:38):
So what do you attribute your growth to?
Uh networking.
So we we really do not rely alot heavily on um marketing to
the masses, um, such as youknow, Google, Facebook, any of
those advertising overheadexpenses that we were just
(14:58):
talking about.
Our growth has really becomefrom the networks that we're
involved in.
So with the chamber, um othernetworking groups that we're
members of, and just the wherewe have educated those people
inside of those groups and theyunderstand that we are actually
(15:25):
here to not just perform thetask, but to also educate and
make sure that those things atthe end of the day that those
other customers of customers areyou know really taken care of.
Um that's what most of ourgrowth has come from.
We've met a lot of con uhgeneral contractors and other
(15:47):
subcontractors throughout this,and we work hand in hand
together.
They have something come up,they give us a call, we have
something, or with a customer,we're we're giving, we're
passing those back and forth toeach other and going, hey, we
this is a trusted source.
Um so we've really become thattrustworthy person in our realm.
(16:11):
Um and then what a little bitdoes we do have the web presence
and everything else.
You know, we have contractorsthat are Indiana, Ohio, um,
other places that you know theywant us to bid on jobs, and
we've been very successful withthem to be able to perform their
task whenever they're cominginto towns.
(16:32):
So I love that.
We're trying to keep, again,it's for the customer, keep the
overhead expense down for theadvertisement, but we we've got
to keep things rolling too.
Bill Gilliland (16:43):
Yeah, gotta make it.
So, how do you balance personallife with the demands of
running a business?
Thomas Fleming (16:49):
Uh ask my wife, and she's gonna say, probably
not very well.
Um ask me, I'm gonna say I amoverstressed most of the time
trying to get things done.
Again, the the biggest thebiggest thing that's really come
around is this uh role of theeducator also at community
college.
So four days a week, we're I'mteaching at night.
(17:12):
So it's run the business, uh,you know, eight to five,
teaching from five to eight,getting home, seeing the kids,
everything else.
We keep going just for thatreason.
Um, you know, I I look at thefuture of the company, and I've
(17:34):
got two kids that may or maynot, do not know yet.
Eight and five years old, donot know whether they're gonna
take it or not, but that's partof the contingency and and plan
of it.
If they want it, great, they'regonna have to work for it.
Um if not, then you know how dowe how do we do succession plan
(17:54):
in the company to make surethat the name, you know, here
again, I'm building a brand umand wanting to be a leader in in
this in this field and trade.
So, you know, succession plansof that.
How do we balance it?
Well, you know, we're thededication that we're putting to
(18:19):
our customers and and trying tomake sure that yes, they
realize life happens at timesand we're not always there, able
to be there within 24, 48, eventwo, two to three weeks later,
you know, that's that's all whatit is.
We're trying to be as uhtransparent as we can of what's
going on in our life so thatthat way they can play in around
(18:41):
theirs.
Right.
Bill Gilliland (18:42):
I love it.
Well, I love building a brand,and you've got um I mean the
business is going to be sold oneway or the other, whether it's
sold to family or sold outsidethe business.
Either way, you the the path tobuild the business is the same.
So that's pretty exciting thatyou're already thinking about
that.
Most people don't think thatfar ahead, so well done on that.
So what so what qualities doyou look for in employees?
Thomas Fleming (19:07):
Uh dedication if they want to show up.
Um everybody says has the samething.
I can't get people to show up.
Well, how do we fix that?
You know, one of the ways iswe've got to make it worth their
while to show up.
Um so may not always be thehighest pay, but we've got to
(19:32):
offer them something, you know,flexibility.
I've got problems that come up,you know, life happens again.
I need to take my kids to thedoctor.
My mother has whatever issue.
You know, I I as a person, andespecially being a principal of,
I'm very understandable thattake care of what you need to.
(19:53):
You know, yes, we're we have ajob to do, but at the same time,
um my philosophy is, you know,I'm not trying to live to work.
I am trying to work to live alittle bit.
So, you know, I wantflexibility myself.
One of the reasons why I becamean entrepreneur.
If I if the kids need to go tothe doctor, I need to pick them
(20:15):
up early, and my wife's not ableto, you know, we have that's
that flexibility.
Um, I think a lot of employershave gotten away from that, that
you know, the employees arepeople too, and without those
employees, they really arenothing.
Um, I I see that a lot, whichis why I strive for not just to
(20:37):
hire a body, but hire the rightones that they go out and do do
what they need to do.
They have the flexibility ofdoing what they need to do, and
we all work together as a teamwith it.
Um some of the other aspectsthat I'm seeing with it is just
the training that some of thethe skill set trainings and the
(21:00):
knowledge that that the thateven some of the so-called
foremen, I will call them, ortechnicians who have been in the
field for five, six years ormore, some just still don't have
the full skill set of finding aproblem.
Um, yeah, I run a lot ofservice calls because I've seen
(21:24):
a lot of it and I can process.
I have I have a way that Iprocess a service call.
And instead of just going tothe leaps and bounds of I can't
find it, let's just re- tear itall out, replace it, do it all
this way.
Yeah, my my biggest thing isyou we want to we're trying to
(21:45):
repair, we're trying to makesure that everything is safe as
a repair and not just areplacement.
Um, so you know, justunderstanding the concepts and
logic, especially in theelectrical realm, of what does
it take?
Because again, I one of thebiggest sayings is a plumber
(22:06):
knows where his problem's at.
It makes a big mess on thefloor.
We don't know where our problemis at.
We have to be able to actuallysee it, smell it, harness it,
find it, touch it, whichever, toknow where our problem truly
is.
And I think that makes a lot ofus stand out.
And a lot of people just don'thave that anymore.
Bill Gilliland (22:25):
Yeah.
Thomas Fleming (22:26):
Yeah, I love that.
Bill Gilliland (22:27):
I love that.
So what words of advice wouldyou offer other business owners
who are looking to grow?
Thomas Fleming (22:35):
Finding find your niche.
Um find your niche in not justso much one realm, but find a
niche in what your servicereally is.
You know, you've got to look atyourself of while business
(22:55):
itself should not be a hobby,there are a lot of people who
are, especially smallerbusinesses, that act like a
hobby.
Um, you know, if you're goingto grow, you need to have those
proper things in mind of how doyou grow.
Um explosion is nice, but italso creates a lot of different
(23:18):
headaches on the back end of ifwe have a lot of jobs going on,
well, we've got to get vehicles,we need to get people, we need
to get everything in place andin order.
You know, we've got to have oursuppliers who are giving us
competitive prices so that wecan compete in prices with the
(23:39):
bigger box stores from theirshelf.
Uh it it really you really justneed to sit down and it may not
be a plan on paper, and it'slike I tell Jason a lot, you
know, I'm the principal of it.
Everything I have is up here.
It's my job to get this out onthe paper so that you can help
understand what's going throughmy mindset.
(24:01):
But you've got to have a plansomewhere.
Um, whether it is growth,succession, how am I going to
make sure that things are takencare of?
How am I going to make surethat even in slow times, because
there will be slow times, youknow, make sure that cash flow
is still there so that you canstill live also and not become
(24:25):
one of the statistics.
Yeah, no, I love it.
So what's the next big thingfor strategic electoral
solutions?
We're hit again, we're we hitour three-year mark.
So I the biggest thing thatwe're having on the horizon now
is now that I have gotten in myhead that this is a viable plan
(24:48):
and and it will continue to growand does grow every day, is is
now just trying to find morepartners to work with.
Um, and it it's it's not justany partner will do.
We are looking for the theright people to work with who
want to who have the same kindof um thoughts that we do.
(25:12):
We're trying to serve acustomer.
We want them to be able toserve a customer.
We want to work hand in handwith them in a relationship with
their customers, whether it isdesign, what's coming out,
what's new on the horizon, whatcan we do to future-proof and
make sure that, especially inthe in the residential realm of
(25:34):
everything, you know, there's somany changes that have happened
in the past 10 years that whatcan we do to make sure that
those customers have everythingthat they may need going forward
that that they're not having todo an upgrade or expansions or
anything else, you know, in thenext three to five years while
(25:56):
they're still trying to pay offtheir investments on that.
So, you know, that's what we'rereally looking and gearing
towards is we're trying tobecome pardon the pun, we're
becoming strategic partners withothers who were trying to serve
their customers um to the bestof their ability, also.
Bill Gilliland (26:17):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
Strategic partners.
Well, that's a good name, then.
Thomas Fleming (26:23):
It was kind of how it all came around.
Is we were it it was it's wasabout a month and a half long
debate of what name do we callit.
You know, do we call it Flemingand Sons?
Do we call it FlemingElectrical?
Uh go back with when my myfather and I were in business,
he called it Wayne FlemingElectric Company.
(26:44):
And one of the first things Ilooked at him is I said, Well,
when you retire, what does thatdo for me?
Because my name's not Wayne.
So it it really becamesomething I did not want the
company named after me, but it'sat least still has what our
(27:05):
goals and and what we're lookingto do.
We're strategic partners.
We come in and we're we'redoing a strategy whenever we're
looking at your project, whetherit is new construction,
existing construction, service,you know, there's all a strategy
involved of how do we approachthe problem in front of us.
(27:29):
So, you know, simpletroubleshooting.
No, I love it.
Yeah, and then the solutions,you know, we're finding a
solution to your problem.
So it it really all became puttogether in all that once we go,
(27:49):
what is what's our ultimategoal that we're trying to do?
So, you know, what better wayto name a company, I guess.
Bill Gilliland (27:57):
No, I think it's a very good name.
I I you know, I think one ofthe worst things you can do is
name your company after yourselfbecause no one actually cares.
It doesn't, it's like a wasteof a word almost.
No one actually cares exceptmaybe your mother and your you
know and your family, yeah, yourfamily if it'd been named like
Thomas Electrical Solutions.
I mean, but you know, strategicelectrical solutions is a great
(28:18):
name.
It's a great name.
So how does somebody get a holdof you?
Like what if they want to getin touch?
How do they do it?
Thomas Fleming (28:24):
Well, the biggest thing is, and I tell
people, please text me.
Um, my it's it everything comesto my phone, which is a
blessing and a curse.
Um, you can text me336-312-4199.
Um, that's the best way,because with all the spam calls
(28:46):
and everything else, go tovoicemail, leave me a message if
you do want to call.
I will get back with you.
Um email us.
Um right now it's Thomas atSESolutionsonline.com.
Uh, you can visit our website,and I believe that we should
have some of that active thatyou can get a hold of us there.
(29:09):
Um SESolutionsonline dot com.
You know, find us on there andlet us know what your problem
is.
Let us know what you'rethinking or doing, and you know,
we'll we'll work you in theschedule as best we can and and
make sure that you have all theoptions and and knowledge to go
with it.
Bill Gilliland (29:28):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Hey, thanks.
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
That's a fantastic interview.
Uh, thank you for being part ofthis community.
Appreciate all you're doing outin the world.
And uh yeah, you know, we'regonna blow this thing up.
We know I know you're gonna becontinued growth and success.
So uh really appreciate youbeing part of this.
We're gonna give it the bestshot we can.
(29:50):
Thank you, Bill.
Hey, and until next time, allthe best.
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode
of Epic Entrepreneurs.
I am Bill Gilliland, your host.
I am the principal of ActionCoach Business Growth Partners
and one of the founders of theAsheville Business Summit.
I am super pumped today.
I've got a really cool guest.
He's joined the Action Coachcommunity.
We got Thomas Fleming fromStrategic Electrical Solutions.
(00:24):
So Thomas, tell us who you areand a little bit about yourself
and your company and you knowhow you serve the community.
Thomas Fleming (00:33):
So again, Thomas Fleming, and I'm the president
and owner of StrategicElectrical Solutions.
Been in this industry for closeto 30 years now.
So second generation ofelectrical contractor.
Spent a lot of time in thefield, spent a lot of time
educating myself along withothers.
(00:53):
We've kind of taken this on asabout, well, we're in year three
now, so we're at that hump, aseverybody would say.
It's make or break time.
Just really serving ourcustomers with exceptional
service and the best value thatthe market's going to let us
(01:14):
allow right now to doeverything.
Just um focusing a lot on ourtrying to help our customers in
not just their needs, but alsothe education of what is
actually behind the scenes intheir electrical system is
(01:35):
something they use every daywithout even knowing.
Bill Gilliland (01:39):
Yeah, so so Thomas, I want to dig into that
a little bit.
You said you're secondgeneration, you've been in this
30 years, and then you saidthree years.
Tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Thomas Fleming (01:49):
So my my father was licensed.
I believe I saw his in1980-ish.
I know he was in business inthe 80s.
Um, so I was young, wanted togo with him, spent a lot of time
with him out in the field.
Loved doing it, loved theaspect of harnessing something
that nobody can see, but you candefinitely feel it whenever
(02:12):
it's uh not done properly.
Um and really just took took tothat.
Um the I don't know what it is,don't know why.
Some days I'm going, why did Ido this?
But other days, you know, Iactually enjoy I enjoy what I
do, and and it helps me everyday to keep pushing through.
(02:35):
Um him and I were in business,I tell everybody, three weeks
before prior, if anybodyremembers 2008, what happened
then, and we survived throughabout 2013 when uh had an um
offer come along that I justcouldn't turn down.
So he was at the age ofretirement, and we kind of
(02:59):
parted ways, let him do what hewanted to with it, went on later
on with various companies, grewfrom uh you know, foreman to
superintendent, project manager,estimator to pretty much
running everything with it, andgot laid off about a little
after 2020 when everythinghappened on in that session and
(03:23):
year, and said, Well, I might aswell just try it again.
So um went back and got mylicense after all those years,
opened our doors, and here weare today, just trying to hump
along.
Bill Gilliland (03:39):
Perfect, perfect.
I love it, I love it.
It's a it's a great background.
So, who do you serve?
Thomas Fleming (03:45):
Uh is North, we're we're North Carolina,
unlimited license for for thestate of North Carolina.
Our real area that we focus onis the Piedmont Triad.
Uh, we're based out ofWinston-Salem, so Winston-Salem,
Greensboro, High Point,surrounding areas, Stokes
County, Yadkin County, Davy is abig one.
(04:08):
Iredale, we've done some workin.
We've we've even traveled asfar as uh Raleigh, Durham, and
Lenore.
So that kind of gives you a bigwide advance of of what our
coverage is and and the peoplewho find us who want us to do
the work.
Bill Gilliland (04:23):
So we're so are you mostly residential, or are
you doing commercial or both?
We do a little bit of both.
Thomas Fleming (04:30):
Uh my background is primarily in commercial, and
as much as I love it, there aretimes that the commercial does
do some issues with our cashflow.
Um we're all the guys that Ihave worked for me, they
basically have a background incommercial, so we try to stick a
(04:51):
lot with that.
However, now that we're um withthe way the market and
everything is, and we just gotto be multifaceted.
We're looking for uh goodcustom to semi-custom home
builders.
Get in, help them to actually,yes, they have a great design
(05:12):
team on the finishes andcounters and everything else.
Our expertise can come in.
Helping with the lightingdesign, have help to actually
make some of that pop wheneverwe're we're looking at those
design considerations they pickout.
Um smart homes, uh, accesscontrol alternatives, uh
(05:36):
security, not so much as far asthe burglar alarm, but close uh
CCTV or premise video, so thatyou know everything is attached
to that customer.
So they they can monitor what'sgoing on in their house.
Bill Gilliland (05:52):
Yeah, no, I got it.
I got it.
Well, let me ask you somebusiness questions.
I think we got the idea.
I mean, basically, you're youyou're most you're like an
electrical, you're like just anelectrical subcontractor in a
way.
Thomas Fleming (06:04):
And yeah, we're we're a contractor.
We do a lot with uh generalcontractors, but a lot of
service calls with homeownersand upgrades.
Bill Gilliland (06:14):
So yeah, we work with everybody.
So you do both.
You got so you got service andsubcontracting.
Oh, yes.
Absolutely.
If it's electrical, you can doit.
I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I love it.
I love it.
So let me ask you something.
I mean, if you had to startover again, what would you do
differently?
Thomas Fleming (06:32):
Oh, I would I would probably have a little bit
more money in the bank um to tomake sure that we have
everything together, a littlebit more cushion on the
entrepreneurial end of wherewe're we are in the you know,
cash flow crunches at times, andand sometimes that does affect
everything.
(06:53):
Um really doing anything elseover again, I don't even think I
would open my company up anysooner than what I have, just
because of the knowledge that Iacquired over um throughout the
years.
Um, another fun fact is I'mactually instruct uh an
instructor at the communitycollege here, and I have some of
(07:17):
my students ask, well, whatabout my license?
What about my license?
And and the answer to that isyes, the license exam is is
difficult, but that's actuallythe easiest part of the business
in itself is having thatlicense.
Um without the businessknowledge, without knowing how
(07:39):
business operates and cashflows, and making sure that you
have everything there.
I've I've seen a lot of peoplewho have gotten gotten their
license, opened up a company,and failed within a few years
just because of the businessaspect.
So probably one thing I'd dodifferently be get a little bit
(08:01):
more business-minded coursesbehind me and and take it in
that realm.
Bill Gilliland (08:06):
Yeah, got it.
No, I like it.
Yeah, business, yeah, got toget the knowledge, gotta get you
got to get the learning beforeyou can do the earning.
So, yeah, it's good.
So speaking of that, what havebeen some of your bigger
learnings as an owner and anemployer?
Thomas Fleming (08:23):
Oh, what uh payroll actually cost and
involve.
Man, that is that is a funtopic.
Workman's comp andunderstanding how all that's
billed, how all that does affectall the bottom line, uh, just
the taxes, keeping up witheverything, just making sure
(08:43):
that all of those items thatUncle Sam and the state want to
make sure that you have, uhmaking sure those considerations
are made.
So, you know, outside of whatour pricing is for a project,
making sure that we we haveenough in there.
(09:05):
You know, again, it is abusiness, and I tell people that
I should file as a nonprofitsometimes, but it is a business,
and it is a delicate act of youknow, what what do we charge as
a business, and what should usas the entrepreneur, owner, and
(09:27):
the the qualified person, whatshould we actually we don't want
to disconnect with ourcustomers of the customer going,
wow, this is an astronomicallyhigh price for a service where
again we are providing a serviceand we are doing exceptional
quality to make sure that in theend we are protecting the lives
(09:50):
and property of thoseindividuals.
Bill Gilliland (09:53):
Yeah, a lot of people don't actually understand
what all has to go into it.
I mean, I don't even think theyunderstand the licensing.
I mean, you guys you gotta havea lot of hours of experience
before you I mean, you can takethe exam, but you you you can't
get your license until you havetill you've put in the hours.
Thomas Fleming (10:10):
So that's it.
It it is 7,000 hours for thestate of North Carolina.
Other states have 10,000 hourson the job.
And honestly, there's there'sstill a lot of people out there
who they cannot pass the test onthe first, second, or even
third attempt at times.
Bill Gilliland (10:27):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, 7,000 hours, youcan do the math.
I mean, that's that's overthree years.
It's it's about four years iswhat it averaged into.
I mean, the average the averagething is, you know, on a
40-hour week, it's 2,080 a year.
So you know, that's that's yougotta have you gotta have 7,000,
you gotta work four hours.
That's a tough profession toget licensed in.
Thomas Fleming (10:48):
It's it is it and the the exam and the the
math and everything else that wehave to go through, and it is
it is a daunting exam.
Um kind of one of the reasonswhy it took me so long.
I was honestly, I was scared ofit.
Bill Gilliland (11:05):
So Yeah, well, I mean, it's certainly that can
be done.
It's just a matter of uh of youknow putting yourself into it.
But you know, you gotta wantit.
If you if you if you reallywant it, you gotta do it.
So and then and then thebusiness side of it that you
talked about, I love that.
So uh what are you what aresome common misconceptions about
running a business?
Thomas Fleming (11:27):
Uh that that us as the owner has has it made.
Um the biggest thing, and and Iagain I go back to educating my
customers with it, especiallysome of the my service
customers, you know, our billrate is is kind of in line with
(11:48):
with a lot of the others.
You know, it's it's anywherebetween 130 to 150 an hour.
Well, when when we talk aboutthat, you you kind of think,
wow, you're making 130 to 150 anhour.
Well, not exactly.
You know, I've got to pay myemployees, whoever are going out
(12:09):
to there, you know, they'regonna make a good living because
part of this is thatemployee-employer relationship,
they're relying on me to makesure that they have what they
need.
You know, I can't underpaythem.
So, you know, when we look at$30, $40 an hour for for a
technician to go out, take thatoff the top, you know, now we're
(12:31):
at $100.
Government's gonna get theircut of it at 30%.
So out of that $100, we'regonna have another, you know,
$30 uh or more out of there withthat cut.
So now, you know, each one ofthese steps is is kind of
dwindling us down.
So, you know, at the end of theday, it's I look at a lot of
(12:54):
these companies now who,especially some of the the ones
who have gone to these pricebooks and this flatten rate
pricing, and I look at those andI'm going, yes, they're out
there to make money and they'remaking good money at it, but at
what expense to who?
You know, is the customerdoesn't understand what all
(13:16):
going on and what all it costs.
We do on there, but at the sametime, again, it comes back to
to my biggest balancing act iswhat can what can I do for a
customer to make sure they'retaken care of and not break
their bank also.
And and it all comes back tothe full circle of what we're
(13:38):
talking about is the what anhourly rate actually includes in
it.
There is not really a wholelot, us for the ones who are
bearing the burden of theinsurance, the workmen's comp
worrying every night of what iswhat could go wrong or what will
(13:59):
go wrong to really make surethat at the end of the day that
we're we're providing for ourfamily also.
Bill Gilliland (14:05):
Yeah, well, you got yeah, I mean you didn't even
talk about taxes, you didn'teven talk about um overheads,
you didn't talk about insurance,you didn't talk about rent, you
didn't talk about uh you knowtrucks aren't free, fans aren't
free.
But you know, you got you gotthose payments.
You got you know, so thereactually when you sit down and
think it's it's interesting tome.
(14:26):
Well, that's high.
They don't know what they youknow, it's it's it's not.
I mean, what we what what'swhat's right is it's gotta be a
win-win.
It's gotta be fair for thecustomer and fair for you and
fair for your team.
Exactly.
So it's gotta it's gotta beyeah.
Thomas Fleming (14:38):
So what do you attribute your growth to?
Uh networking.
So we we really do not rely alot heavily on um marketing to
the masses, um, such as youknow, Google, Facebook, any of
those advertising overheadexpenses that we were just
(14:58):
talking about.
Our growth has really becomefrom the networks that we're
involved in.
So with the chamber, um othernetworking groups that we're
members of, and just the wherewe have educated those people
inside of those groups and theyunderstand that we are actually
(15:25):
here to not just perform thetask, but to also educate and
make sure that those things atthe end of the day that those
other customers of customers areyou know really taken care of.
Um that's what most of ourgrowth has come from.
We've met a lot of con uhgeneral contractors and other
(15:47):
subcontractors throughout this,and we work hand in hand
together.
They have something come up,they give us a call, we have
something, or with a customer,we're we're giving, we're
passing those back and forth toeach other and going, hey, we
this is a trusted source.
Um so we've really become thattrustworthy person in our realm.
(16:11):
Um and then what a little bitdoes we do have the web presence
and everything else.
You know, we have contractorsthat are Indiana, Ohio, um,
other places that you know theywant us to bid on jobs, and
we've been very successful withthem to be able to perform their
task whenever they're cominginto towns.
(16:32):
So I love that.
We're trying to keep, again,it's for the customer, keep the
overhead expense down for theadvertisement, but we we've got
to keep things rolling too.
Bill Gilliland (16:43):
Yeah, gotta make it.
So, how do you balance personallife with the demands of
running a business?
Thomas Fleming (16:49):
Uh ask my wife, and she's gonna say, probably
not very well.
Um ask me, I'm gonna say I amoverstressed most of the time
trying to get things done.
Again, the the biggest thebiggest thing that's really come
around is this uh role of theeducator also at community
college.
So four days a week, we're I'mteaching at night.
(17:12):
So it's run the business, uh,you know, eight to five,
teaching from five to eight,getting home, seeing the kids,
everything else.
We keep going just for thatreason.
Um, you know, I I look at thefuture of the company, and I've
(17:34):
got two kids that may or maynot, do not know yet.
Eight and five years old, donot know whether they're gonna
take it or not, but that's partof the contingency and and plan
of it.
If they want it, great, they'regonna have to work for it.
Um if not, then you know how dowe how do we do succession plan
(17:54):
in the company to make surethat the name, you know, here
again, I'm building a brand umand wanting to be a leader in in
this in this field and trade.
So, you know, succession plansof that.
How do we balance it?
Well, you know, we're thededication that we're putting to
(18:19):
our customers and and trying tomake sure that yes, they
realize life happens at timesand we're not always there, able
to be there within 24, 48, eventwo, two to three weeks later,
you know, that's that's all whatit is.
We're trying to be as uhtransparent as we can of what's
going on in our life so thatthat way they can play in around
(18:41):
theirs.
Right.
Bill Gilliland (18:42):
I love it.
Well, I love building a brand,and you've got um I mean the
business is going to be sold oneway or the other, whether it's
sold to family or sold outsidethe business.
Either way, you the the path tobuild the business is the same.
So that's pretty exciting thatyou're already thinking about
that.
Most people don't think thatfar ahead, so well done on that.
So what so what qualities doyou look for in employees?
Thomas Fleming (19:07):
Uh dedication if they want to show up.
Um everybody says has the samething.
I can't get people to show up.
Well, how do we fix that?
You know, one of the ways iswe've got to make it worth their
while to show up.
Um so may not always be thehighest pay, but we've got to
(19:32):
offer them something, you know,flexibility.
I've got problems that come up,you know, life happens again.
I need to take my kids to thedoctor.
My mother has whatever issue.
You know, I I as a person, andespecially being a principal of,
I'm very understandable thattake care of what you need to.
(19:53):
You know, yes, we're we have ajob to do, but at the same time,
um my philosophy is, you know,I'm not trying to live to work.
I am trying to work to live alittle bit.
So, you know, I wantflexibility myself.
One of the reasons why I becamean entrepreneur.
If I if the kids need to go tothe doctor, I need to pick them
(20:15):
up early, and my wife's not ableto, you know, we have that's
that flexibility.
Um, I think a lot of employershave gotten away from that, that
you know, the employees arepeople too, and without those
employees, they really arenothing.
Um, I I see that a lot, whichis why I strive for not just to
(20:37):
hire a body, but hire the rightones that they go out and do do
what they need to do.
They have the flexibility ofdoing what they need to do, and
we all work together as a teamwith it.
Um some of the other aspectsthat I'm seeing with it is just
the training that some of thethe skill set trainings and the
(21:00):
knowledge that that the thateven some of the so-called
foremen, I will call them, ortechnicians who have been in the
field for five, six years ormore, some just still don't have
the full skill set of finding aproblem.
Um, yeah, I run a lot ofservice calls because I've seen
(21:24):
a lot of it and I can process.
I have I have a way that Iprocess a service call.
And instead of just going tothe leaps and bounds of I can't
find it, let's just re- tear itall out, replace it, do it all
this way.
Yeah, my my biggest thing isyou we want to we're trying to
(21:45):
repair, we're trying to makesure that everything is safe as
a repair and not just areplacement.
Um, so you know, justunderstanding the concepts and
logic, especially in theelectrical realm, of what does
it take?
Because again, I one of thebiggest sayings is a plumber
(22:06):
knows where his problem's at.
It makes a big mess on thefloor.
We don't know where our problemis at.
We have to be able to actuallysee it, smell it, harness it,
find it, touch it, whichever, toknow where our problem truly
is.
And I think that makes a lot ofus stand out.
And a lot of people just don'thave that anymore.
Bill Gilliland (22:25):
Yeah.
Thomas Fleming (22:26):
Yeah, I love that.
Bill Gilliland (22:27):
I love that.
So what words of advice wouldyou offer other business owners
who are looking to grow?
Thomas Fleming (22:35):
Finding find your niche.
Um find your niche in not justso much one realm, but find a
niche in what your servicereally is.
You know, you've got to look atyourself of while business
(22:55):
itself should not be a hobby,there are a lot of people who
are, especially smallerbusinesses, that act like a
hobby.
Um, you know, if you're goingto grow, you need to have those
proper things in mind of how doyou grow.
Um explosion is nice, but italso creates a lot of different
(23:18):
headaches on the back end of ifwe have a lot of jobs going on,
well, we've got to get vehicles,we need to get people, we need
to get everything in place andin order.
You know, we've got to have oursuppliers who are giving us
competitive prices so that wecan compete in prices with the
(23:39):
bigger box stores from theirshelf.
Uh it it really you really justneed to sit down and it may not
be a plan on paper, and it'slike I tell Jason a lot, you
know, I'm the principal of it.
Everything I have is up here.
It's my job to get this out onthe paper so that you can help
understand what's going throughmy mindset.
(24:01):
But you've got to have a plansomewhere.
Um, whether it is growth,succession, how am I going to
make sure that things are takencare of?
How am I going to make surethat even in slow times, because
there will be slow times, youknow, make sure that cash flow
is still there so that you canstill live also and not become
(24:25):
one of the statistics.
Yeah, no, I love it.
So what's the next big thingfor strategic electoral
solutions?
We're hit again, we're we hitour three-year mark.
So I the biggest thing thatwe're having on the horizon now
is now that I have gotten in myhead that this is a viable plan
(24:48):
and and it will continue to growand does grow every day, is is
now just trying to find morepartners to work with.
Um, and it it's it's not justany partner will do.
We are looking for the theright people to work with who
want to who have the same kindof um thoughts that we do.
(25:12):
We're trying to serve acustomer.
We want them to be able toserve a customer.
We want to work hand in handwith them in a relationship with
their customers, whether it isdesign, what's coming out,
what's new on the horizon, whatcan we do to future-proof and
make sure that, especially inthe in the residential realm of
(25:34):
everything, you know, there's somany changes that have happened
in the past 10 years that whatcan we do to make sure that
those customers have everythingthat they may need going forward
that that they're not having todo an upgrade or expansions or
anything else, you know, in thenext three to five years while
(25:56):
they're still trying to pay offtheir investments on that.
So, you know, that's what we'rereally looking and gearing
towards is we're trying tobecome pardon the pun, we're
becoming strategic partners withothers who were trying to serve
their customers um to the bestof their ability, also.
Bill Gilliland (26:17):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
Strategic partners.
Well, that's a good name, then.
Thomas Fleming (26:23):
It was kind of how it all came around.
Is we were it it was it's wasabout a month and a half long
debate of what name do we callit.
You know, do we call it Flemingand Sons?
Do we call it FlemingElectrical?
Uh go back with when my myfather and I were in business,
he called it Wayne FlemingElectric Company.
(26:44):
And one of the first things Ilooked at him is I said, Well,
when you retire, what does thatdo for me?
Because my name's not Wayne.
So it it really becamesomething I did not want the
company named after me, but it'sat least still has what our
(27:05):
goals and and what we're lookingto do.
We're strategic partners.
We come in and we're we'redoing a strategy whenever we're
looking at your project, whetherit is new construction,
existing construction, service,you know, there's all a strategy
involved of how do we approachthe problem in front of us.
(27:29):
So, you know, simpletroubleshooting.
No, I love it.
Yeah, and then the solutions,you know, we're finding a
solution to your problem.
So it it really all became puttogether in all that once we go,
(27:49):
what is what's our ultimategoal that we're trying to do?
So, you know, what better wayto name a company, I guess.
Bill Gilliland (27:57):
No, I think it's a very good name.
I I you know, I think one ofthe worst things you can do is
name your company after yourselfbecause no one actually cares.
It doesn't, it's like a wasteof a word almost.
No one actually cares exceptmaybe your mother and your you
know and your family, yeah, yourfamily if it'd been named like
Thomas Electrical Solutions.
I mean, but you know, strategicelectrical solutions is a great
(28:18):
name.
It's a great name.
So how does somebody get a holdof you?
Like what if they want to getin touch?
How do they do it?
Thomas Fleming (28:24):
Well, the biggest thing is, and I tell
people, please text me.
Um, my it's it everything comesto my phone, which is a
blessing and a curse.
Um, you can text me336-312-4199.
Um, that's the best way,because with all the spam calls
(28:46):
and everything else, go tovoicemail, leave me a message if
you do want to call.
I will get back with you.
Um email us.
Um right now it's Thomas atSESolutionsonline.com.
Uh, you can visit our website,and I believe that we should
have some of that active thatyou can get a hold of us there.
(29:09):
Um SESolutionsonline dot com.
You know, find us on there andlet us know what your problem
is.
Let us know what you'rethinking or doing, and you know,
we'll we'll work you in theschedule as best we can and and
make sure that you have all theoptions and and knowledge to go
with it.
Bill Gilliland (29:28):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Hey, thanks.
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
That's a fantastic interview.
Uh, thank you for being part ofthis community.
Appreciate all you're doing outin the world.
And uh yeah, you know, we'regonna blow this thing up.
We know I know you're gonna becontinued growth and success.
So uh really appreciate youbeing part of this.
We're gonna give it the bestshot we can.
(29:50):
Thank you, Bill.
Hey, and until next time, allthe best.
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