February 24, 2025 • 31 mins
Shelton and Joe from the Wrong Way River Lodge share their incredible journey through adversity after Hurricane Helene wreaked havoc on their business. With resilience and strategic planning, they quickly restored their operations and emphasized the importance of partnerships, preparation, and community engagement.
• Outlining the origin story of Wrong Way River Lodge
• Sharing experiences of facing Hurricane Alene and flooding
• Highlighting the importance of financial preparedness and insurance
• Discussing partnership dynamics and balancing optimism with pragmatism
• Emphasizing lessons learned about commitment and focus in entrepreneurship
• Encouraging community engagement as a means of recovery and growth
The core mission of Wrong Way is to connect guests with the transformational qualities of the outdoors through comfortable accommodations, convenient access, inspiring experiences, and a little local culture.
Wrong Way is a first-of-its-kind lodging option in Asheville and unique in the hospitality space, as it pulls the best qualities from several traditional lodging types: including campgrounds (simplicity, nostalgia), hotels (comfort, group amenities, professionalism), Airbnbs (efficiency, originality), and resorts (curated experiences).
Thanks for Listening. You may contact me at https://billgilliland.actioncoach.com/
All the best!
Bill
Thanks for listening. Please hit the subscribe button, leave us a 5 star review, and share this podcast. You can reach me at williamgilliland@actioncoach.com.
All the best!
Bill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic
Entrepreneurs.
Today I'm with Shelton and Joefrom the Wrong Way River Lodge
and Campgrounds.
So welcome to the podcast andtell us a little bit about how
you got into this business inthe first place.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, Bill thanks for having us on here.
I'm Shelton, I'm Joe.
Thanks for having us on here.
I'm Shelton, I'm Joe.
Joe and I met playing adultsoccer 20 plus years ago.
That number keeps gettingbigger Kind of like being
married, I guess, right.
And we recently kind of hit ajuncture in life where both of
(00:41):
us were looking for a careerchange and we had an idea to
pursue lodging in Asheville.
It's kind of a big bucket, butwe felt like there was an
opportunity around a lodgingexperience that aligned with
Asheville's outdoor personality,and so we built the Wrong Way
River Lodge and Cabins.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You built the wrong way river lodge and cabins, yep
and we found a really hairypiece of property to problem
solve and figure out how tobuild it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, it's kind of on the side of a mountain would be
strong, but it's sort of on theside of a hill.
For sure that's right Side of ahill in a floodplain French
Broad River corridor, so it'skind of a hot topic of
discussion right now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah Well, let's jump right in.
I mean, a lot of people, let'stalk about adversity.
I mean, you guys hit it prettyhard this fall, so let's talk
about I think everyone knowsthat we had a massive weather
experience with Hurricane Alene,with 40 inches of rain falling
down in two days, and the FrenchBroad River, which you're sort
(01:52):
of across the park and thestreet from, was ridiculously
high, some 20, some feet aboveits normal thing, and so you did
have some damage.
Tell us about that and tell ussort of what's been your
response.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, so we had, like you said, 24.1 feet was the
closest gauge in terms offlooding.
So our cabins at least 13 ofthe 16, are built for the flood,
(02:30):
quote unquote.
And the way they're built forthe flood is that they are on
these concrete piers that rangeanywhere from 10 feet to 14 feet
and you park underneath thosecabins like you would a beach
house.
Even still, six of those cabinsgot flooded, the worst of which
(02:54):
was five feet underwater.
And then our river lodge, whichis a communal structure.
We have an event space in thebottom floor that also had five
feet of water inside of it, sothose structures had flood
(03:16):
damage and then a good portionof the property also had flood
damage.
Luckily we were in kind of thiseddy of that river flooding, so
we didn't't sustain a lot ofstructural damage.
That would have occurred from astrong current.
But still, with the floodwatersthat inundated the cabins and
(03:38):
the lower floor of the riverlodge, we were impacted pretty
severely.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, so one of our tenants is responsibility, and
that just means the ability torespond.
So how did y'all respond to theevent?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, I mean it was a knee knocker.
I mean it hit us.
You know, hit everyone inWestern North Carolina,
september 26th 2024.
So you know, hit everyone inWestern North Carolina,
september 26th 2024.
So you know you're talkingabout, you're heading straight
into the busiest season of theyear, busiest month of the year,
october.
So you know our responsibility,first and foremost, we're both
(04:17):
parents.
So we took care of our familiesand made sure that, you know,
everybody in our nuclear familyhad what they needed.
Sure that you know everybody inour nuclear family had what
they needed.
And then we kind of made our wayto wrong way to uncover the
damage.
And you know we, joe and I,kind of together set up our
little disaster response teamand made a few phone calls.
(04:40):
And you know, I'm sure this issomething you guys talk about a
lot on the podcast bill, butit's your network, you know who
who's, who's your core team,that you know you can make that
emergency phone call to.
And you know we called ourgeneral contractor, ward Griffin
, with Griffin builders and youknow, within two days we had a
plan to demo and remediate andget ahead of any kind of
(05:04):
moisture mold mitigation andwithin 90 days we had the
property completely restored andmore importantly, I feel like,
is by November 1st we werepartially operational and I
think that as we move into 2025,I think starting in November
(05:28):
allows us to build that momentumso that, you know, we're able
to really be, you know, atcruising altitude come
summertime.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, I found that a lot of I mean the mental yeah, I
found that a lot of I mean themental strain and the mental
stress was tough.
A lot of people had a hard timelooking forward, I think, and
so I think it sounds like y'allimmediately got to work on
(05:59):
looking forward by like, here'swhat we got to deal with.
Now, let's deal with it andthen we'll worry about moving
forward.
So, did you have reserves orinsurance, or you know how did I
mean?
Obviously, one of the bigthings that happens to
businesses in a, in a naturaldisaster, is hey, you know, can
you how are we going to pay forthis thing?
Because it's a big.
(06:20):
You know, financially it's abig.
You know it's a big.
Oops, I mean, it's a holy cow,this wasn't in the plan.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, I think you know there's all kinds of
personalities out there andthere's a good amount of
entrepreneurs that are on theoptimistic side of the fence,
and that doesn't.
That's me.
That doesn't always play intoplanning for those unexpected
(06:56):
events to happen.
So, whether it's making surethey have flood insurance or
some working capital set asideat least for us, and especially
in this event, we found out howimportant that is so that you
can get started really quicklyIf we didn't have that working
(07:16):
capital set aside, we wouldstill be waiting for our flood
insurance to come through,because it's still in process,
and if we weren't able to getonto that moisture mitigation as
quickly as we did orreconstruction as quickly as we
(07:37):
did and now we're 100%operational we would have been
in a tough spot.
So I think you know if welearned anything, it's to plan
for those unexpected events.
Make sure you have that nestegg set aside and protect it as
much as possible If, even ifyou're not in the flood zone,
(08:00):
you know flood insurance is oneof those necessary things
because it doesn't require ariver just to get impacted by a
busted water pipe or some otherthing that blood insurance may
be helpful for.
So you know.
Our advice, at least to othersthat might be going into this,
is to, you know, get floodinsurance or something that
(08:23):
lowers your risk to some extentfor those unexpected situations,
and have that nest egg setaside so that you can keep on
plowing forward.
We were able to keep thatmomentum because we had a very
specific path forward.
We didn't have to look at thisamorphous future, which nobody
(08:45):
knew what the future held, butwe knew what the path to
reconstruction was.
We had full control over thatRight.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, I think it's that idea of what you can
control and what you can'tcontrol, bill, yeah, if you, the
simple explanation for why wehad such a our capital reserve
was in place.
We had just taken down an SBAloan in January of 2024.
We had recapitalized our wholebusiness after a couple of years
(09:15):
of operation and wespecifically acquired a nest egg
to cover this five-yearprojection that we had put
together.
And the flood was not what weintended to spend that money on,
but the point is that it wasthere, and another requirement
of that SBA loan was that wecarried flood insurance.
(09:37):
So we had our flood insurancebuttoned up and in place and I
think you know I would encouragepeople as you're opening a
business or you're looking atgrowing your business.
A lot of these guidelines arethere for a reason, and I don't
mean you got to do everythingthat.
You know the guidelines helpedus.
Let's just let's call it whatit was right.
(09:58):
Like they were in place, webuilt two feet above base flood
elevation.
That that allowed us to weatherthat big flood event.
We had flood insurance and thenwe had a capital reserve and
you know that's why we're openand operational right now.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, I think we often get mad at the lenders and
say, why do they have theserequirements?
But they know I mean they'repredicting their money.
So you know it's an investment,it's not a gift, and they want
to get paid back and they knowthat, hey, these things have to
be in place.
And I love what you said aboutthe area of control, and I
(10:40):
always draw it as two concentriccircles the area of control is
in the middle and then the areaof concern is the stuff outside.
You can't do anything about it,you can't do anything about the
river, but you can do, you cancontrol the thing.
So well done on all fronts.
Let me ask you something.
It came up when you weretalking about, like you know,
I'm an entrepreneur and I'moptimistic and I'm in there and
(11:01):
I'm guessing, joe, you might bea little more on the
conservative side and let's,let's.
So it's a good partnership.
Talk about having partners andworking together as a partner.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
How have y'all, how have y'all navigated that Shoot
man, the ham and egg, right, Imean, you know, I think, if you
use the disaster as a filter, Imean, you know, having a partner
to lean on during that periodwas instrumental and kind of you
know, just the emotionalstrength of drawing off of one
(11:32):
another.
You have a good day, you knowyou're pulling one forward and
vice versa, um, and you know, Ithink, if you go back to we
started this business in 2022,right, and Joe just turned 50.
Um, so, happy birthday, joe.
Don't tell him that, oh, comeon.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Happy birthday, joe.
Sorry, yeah, is that today?
Is that today actually?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
A couple of days ago.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, congrats.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So you know, I'm 46.
I mean, we're in the middle ofour lives.
We have kids, families, youknow.
Jumping off a cliff as anentrepreneur in your early 20s
when it's the only thing youwant to focus on and you have so
much time and space to do thatis one scenario, is one scenario
.
And then if you kind of hit itin the middle of your life, like
(12:20):
we did, we needed thatpartnership in order to tow the
load together.
And you know, I've had familystuff, joe's had family stuff.
It was just real life, you know, and we're able to kind of move
in and out of focus so that youknow when we have needs outside
of work, one's able to be hereand help operate this business.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, and I think you know, besides the just sharing
the burden concept, it's alsoour.
You know differentpersonalities which you kind of
alluded to there.
Bill Shelton is very much amomentum man.
He's, you know, leaning forward.
He's got the bias for action,he's the optimist and I'm the
(13:07):
practical one, the data-drivendecision one.
You know the intention behindthat momentum and I think you
know, as long as we recognizethat we and I think you know as
long as we recognize that wethat both things together are
really powerful, becausesometimes you know, I can get
frustrated with him when he'soff running we haven't thought
(13:30):
about it.
He can get frustrated with mewhen I'm saying, hey, let's
think about this, and you knowhe's ready to go.
But it is a really goodpartnership when we are able to
pause and think but then go.
If we didn't have that dynamic,this wrong way, if it was just
(13:51):
me, this concept, this businesswould still be on 16,000
spreadsheets and would havenever been realized.
And if Shelton was doing it onhis own, you know, we wouldn't
have as many people saying howmuch intentionality is behind
(14:11):
what they experience.
So between the two of us we'reable to have something real that
people can touch and feel andcomment on how intentional it is
.
So it works really well for us.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, I think you have to have both in a
partnership.
You've got to have thatentrepreneurial sort of go get
it, let's just get done with itkind of thing.
But you also have to have thepractical sort of operation side
.
I always say it's a.
In most businesses there's asales component and an
operations component.
Of course you got to have thefinancial component as well, but
I I see a lot in businesses as,as they grow, If it's just one
(14:52):
owner, they've got to employsomeone to take care of
whichever part they're notstrong in.
So it's so it's great.
It's great that you, that youguys, have that.
So just a quick aside what'sthe?
Where'd you come up with thename?
I mean, it's kind of a greatname, right a name and a brand.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Not everybody in our little circle thought so either.
Um, you know what?
What was really cool aboutcoming up with that name when we
had, you know, narrowed it downto three of them, we had the
name wrong way was in there andanother one was in there.
I think it was like west bendor something.
It it felt very appealing tothe masses.
It sounded like someneighborhood development or
(15:46):
something, and everybody likedit when we were testing the
market.
But Wrong Way didn't test aswell, meaning not as many people
liked it, but the people thatdid like it really liked it.
They thought that was thecoolest name.
And where it comes from is theriver that we just got done
(16:07):
talking about.
It is one of the few rivers inthe world that flows from south
to north Right, so it is ourwrong way river here locally,
and both Shelton and I have havein our history, um working on
the river.
He was a kayak instructor, Iwas a whitewater rafting guide
(16:29):
on the French Broad Riveractually, and that was one of
the little stories I told theguests when we were going down.
The French Broad River is it'sone of the few rivers in the
world that flows from south tonorth yep, yeah, yeah, it's,
yeah, it's backwards, um, or itfeels backwards because it
doesn't.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
It doesn't looks like on a map.
It ought to go the other way,but yeah that's correct, yeah
there's a couple more, but it's,it's a, that's a, that's a,
that's an, that's an interestingone.
Well, let me ask you um whathave been some of your biggest
lessons?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
As a business.
What have been our biggestlessons?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, maybe one each.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I mean as the optimist in the duo.
I think you know my biggestlesson has been that it's not
going to be as linear as youwant it to be.
And you know, just becausethere are highs and lows doesn't
mean that you're not doing theright thing and that it's not
heading the right direction.
But you know that kind ofresiliency as a small business,
(17:39):
you know.
I think in American cultureit's you know culture everybody
wants to use the tech.
The dot-com example of did you100, 1,000 exit and how did you
build it up and sell it?
And I think the reality of thesmall business community is it's
a slow, long grind and youenjoy your wins, you learn
(18:03):
something from your losses butyou keep it pointed, the right
direction.
And you know, ultimately you'reable to grow your business and
your community and your customerbase.
And you know I think that's thelong-winded answer in saying
that you know it's it's, it's aslow win.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
That's what I've learned.
That's the optimist answer wegot it.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
No, I got it.
It's got to be long winded,it's got to be right, cause you
got to describe the whole thing.
It's cool, that's good.
How about you, joe?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yeah, I think, besides what we already talked
about, which is that kind ofyeah in capital S to egg and you
know whatever version ofinsurance applies to your
business Um, it's all aboutfocus and prioritization,
because, especially as a smallbusiness, uh, especially as an
(18:56):
owner, um, there's going to beso many things that you have to
do and I would love to hire abunch of people to focus on all
those things, but the reality isthat there are just some things
that are going to bedeprioritized and not focused on
(19:16):
because we don't have the timeor the money to focus on it.
So be at least for us beintentional about what your
priorities are and where you'regoing to focus your time, and
revisit that with someregularity, because you can get
the blinders on and get sweptaway by everything that has to
(19:42):
be done, and then you pick yourhead up a year later and you go,
what, what are we even doing?
Right, so you know just beingintentional with prioritization,
knowing that you can only focuson the top one, two, three,
four priorities, and then youknow, planning to revisit that
(20:06):
those priorities every quarteror twice a year, once a year, uh
, so that you can ask your, youryourself, the question, uh, of
whether or not they're stillappropriate.
And we should put our head downand keep focusing on those
priorities, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, I like it, I like it a lot.
So let's do a sort of a quickfire round.
Just quick answer.
So EPIC is a acronym and so thefirst part of the E stands for
education.
Just a quick thought oneducation when it comes to
running a business.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Oh, I would say, how do you get involved civically,
like, how does your municipalitywork?
Who makes decisions?
You know, how can you getinvolved?
I sit on a city commission andI was involved before the flood
happened.
(21:05):
That type of involvement, thosenetworks, those connections
have become so valuable now thatthe city is talking about okay,
what do we do, how do werebuild.
Just being involved prior tothe flood has become so valuable
as those conversations ramp up.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, and you get an education in how the government
and the permitting and all thatstuff works.
So it's, yeah, it's crazy.
So how about planning?
The P stands for planning.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I mean, I've learned a lot planning from Joe.
You know he's pragmatic in howwe lay things out, but you know,
I think that planning for mehas allowed, you know wrong way,
to have annual goals,three-year, five-year goals, and
then we kind of have toreevaluate how we're tracking
against those goals and I thinkthat ultimately affects your
(22:00):
day-to-day example being theflood.
Right, I mean, we flooded inSeptember, closed in October.
We're having one of the slowestwinters you know Asheville's
ever had, closed in October.
We're having one of the slowestwinters Asheville's ever had
and we had to recalculate all of2025 because it didn't paper
out like we had it before theflood.
So, you know, planning,adapting and then replanning,
(22:21):
right.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean plans change, I mean, but you
got to think it through.
So you know, well done onhaving a plan, I mean, it's what
I would say, which I'm sure youhad to have to get your SBA
loan anyway.
Yeah, the I stands forinspiration.
So either how do you, where doyou find inspiration, or how do
you be an inspiration?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Either one.
Yeah, I continue to findinspiration from our guests and
(23:06):
our local customers that use ourproperty.
I mean, people come in and dothings here to continue to learn
from them and then, you know,make sure that that that new
experience that they brought toour place is something that we
then offer to other people,right?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, I would.
I would second that you know,besides our guests reacting and
commenting about theirexperiences, just people in the
community and how they react tothis, especially if it's the
first time that you've seen it.
I know this is a podcast andyou can't exactly see what wrong
way.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And you ought to go by there and look at it.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really is.
If you're in Asheville, go seeit.
If you haven't been, it'sawesome.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, that's what I get inspired by, because we're
in it day to day.
The newness has worn off Right.
So for the folks that react toit, that are seeing it for the
first time and saying how coolit is or how novel it is, it
reminds me of that cool factorthat we experienced when we're
(24:16):
drawing it up on a piece ofpaper.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yep and the C is commitment.
So what's your thoughts oncommitment?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Man, we have a parent company that operates this
business called All ForwardOutdoors, and All Forward is the
rafting call that you give asyou enter a rapid and you're
telling your guest in your boatto paddle their butts off.
So I think you know we're anAll Forward business all the way
(24:46):
.
I mean commitment is how youactualize your dream.
So you know, don't be afraid ofthe commitment if you want to
realize, you know, your smallbusiness dream.
No.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I love that.
Actualize your dream.
All forward, All forward.
Actualize your dream.
That might be the title of thispodcast.
We'll think about that.
We'll think about that one.
A couple more quick questions.
One's serious and the otherone's just a little bit of fun.
(25:20):
What do you wish that you hadknown before you went into this?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
What do you wish somebody had told you that's a
good one.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, I mean know that.
You know the the newness ofoperating a new business is
going to wear off and what'sgoing to be left over is
operating a business for a long,long time.
So be sure that it's somethingthat you want to commit a lot of
(25:54):
hours to.
I come from corporate Americaand you know it was a grind and
I you know there were weeks thatI was spending 60, 65 hours a
week doing that job and itwasn't for myself.
(26:14):
But if you're going to own yourown business, you're going to
work that plus some.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, it's fixed.
You traded a 65-hour job for a100-hour job.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, that yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
That's good, and if you, if you have a family, make
sure you have thoseconversations with your families
, because you're not the onlyone that's committing to that.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
That's right yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred
percent.
How about you, shel?
What do you wish?
Somebody told you.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You know, it's kind of that point I made earlier
about it not being linear, right.
I mean, in a way I'm on thesales side, I did the
fundraising, the business kindof development side of getting
this place put together, andthat felt like at the time that
that was my Mount Everest, likeI had summited and man, that was
(27:07):
it.
But you know, I wish somebodyhad kind of told me you know,
hey, that's, that is your firstfalse summit that you have just
reached.
And, man, you're, you're goingup there and it's going to take
a while to get there.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, no, that's cool .
Um, yeah, so.
So you met playing soccer.
What positions do you guys play?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I was playing in the midfield, joe played in the back
.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, I was kind of the big sweeper.
I'm 6'4" and not quick, but Igot really long legs.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So I can just get in people's way yeah, no, it's cool
, it's.
I just think it's interesting.
What I think it fitspersonalities where people end
up playing yeah yeah, it'spretty, it's it's, it's pretty
interesting.
So where do people find you orhow can they get a hold of you?
How can they check you out?
Yeah, yeah, we're online.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
We're at wrongwaycampgroundcom and that's
that's an easy thing to look upas well, and we've got an
Instagram handle, facebookhandle as well as a LinkedIn
handle, and then you can getShelton at Wrong Way Campground
or Joe at Wrong Way Campgroundand yeah, please reach out, come
take a tour.
And I mean part of you knowwhat's inspiring to me is
(28:31):
helping people kind of talkthrough their own small business
dreams.
So if you're thinking aboutbuilding this kind of concept,
love to hear your ideas andshare what we can.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So are there any plans in thefuture for more developments or
more lodging opportunities oranything in the five-year plan?
Stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yes, good, cool Ford Outdoors to continue to bring
new developments to Ashevilleand the surrounding area that
are outdoor focused and valuesdriven.
So that's what we intend to do.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Well, it's been super coolhaving you.
I've enjoyed talking to you.
I hope it's been fun for y'all.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, thanks for the time, bill.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, it's been great .
Hey, and until next time allthe best.
Thanks, bill.
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic
Entrepreneurs.
Today I'm with Shelton and Joefrom the Wrong Way River Lodge
and Campgrounds.
So welcome to the podcast andtell us a little bit about how
you got into this business inthe first place.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, Bill thanks for having us on here.
I'm Shelton, I'm Joe.
Thanks for having us on here.
I'm Shelton, I'm Joe.
Joe and I met playing adultsoccer 20 plus years ago.
That number keeps gettingbigger Kind of like being
married, I guess, right.
And we recently kind of hit ajuncture in life where both of
(00:41):
us were looking for a careerchange and we had an idea to
pursue lodging in Asheville.
It's kind of a big bucket, butwe felt like there was an
opportunity around a lodgingexperience that aligned with
Asheville's outdoor personality,and so we built the Wrong Way
River Lodge and Cabins.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You built the wrong way river lodge and cabins, yep
and we found a really hairypiece of property to problem
solve and figure out how tobuild it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, it's kind of on the side of a mountain would be
strong, but it's sort of on theside of a hill.
For sure that's right Side of ahill in a floodplain French
Broad River corridor, so it'skind of a hot topic of
discussion right now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah Well, let's jump right in.
I mean, a lot of people, let'stalk about adversity.
I mean, you guys hit it prettyhard this fall, so let's talk
about I think everyone knowsthat we had a massive weather
experience with Hurricane Alene,with 40 inches of rain falling
down in two days, and the FrenchBroad River, which you're sort
(01:52):
of across the park and thestreet from, was ridiculously
high, some 20, some feet aboveits normal thing, and so you did
have some damage.
Tell us about that and tell ussort of what's been your
response.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, so we had, like you said, 24.1 feet was the
closest gauge in terms offlooding.
So our cabins at least 13 ofthe 16, are built for the flood,
(02:30):
quote unquote.
And the way they're built forthe flood is that they are on
these concrete piers that rangeanywhere from 10 feet to 14 feet
and you park underneath thosecabins like you would a beach
house.
Even still, six of those cabinsgot flooded, the worst of which
(02:54):
was five feet underwater.
And then our river lodge, whichis a communal structure.
We have an event space in thebottom floor that also had five
feet of water inside of it, sothose structures had flood
(03:16):
damage and then a good portionof the property also had flood
damage.
Luckily we were in kind of thiseddy of that river flooding, so
we didn't't sustain a lot ofstructural damage.
That would have occurred from astrong current.
But still, with the floodwatersthat inundated the cabins and
(03:38):
the lower floor of the riverlodge, we were impacted pretty
severely.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, so one of our tenants is responsibility, and
that just means the ability torespond.
So how did y'all respond to theevent?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, I mean it was a knee knocker.
I mean it hit us.
You know, hit everyone inWestern North Carolina,
september 26th 2024.
So you know, hit everyone inWestern North Carolina,
september 26th 2024.
So you know you're talkingabout, you're heading straight
into the busiest season of theyear, busiest month of the year,
october.
So you know our responsibility,first and foremost, we're both
(04:17):
parents.
So we took care of our familiesand made sure that, you know,
everybody in our nuclear familyhad what they needed.
Sure that you know everybody inour nuclear family had what
they needed.
And then we kind of made our wayto wrong way to uncover the
damage.
And you know we, joe and I,kind of together set up our
little disaster response teamand made a few phone calls.
(04:40):
And you know, I'm sure this issomething you guys talk about a
lot on the podcast bill, butit's your network, you know who
who's, who's your core team,that you know you can make that
emergency phone call to.
And you know we called ourgeneral contractor, ward Griffin
, with Griffin builders and youknow, within two days we had a
plan to demo and remediate andget ahead of any kind of
(05:04):
moisture mold mitigation andwithin 90 days we had the
property completely restored andmore importantly, I feel like,
is by November 1st we werepartially operational and I
think that as we move into 2025,I think starting in November
(05:28):
allows us to build that momentumso that, you know, we're able
to really be, you know, atcruising altitude come
summertime.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, I found that a lot of I mean the mental yeah, I
found that a lot of I mean themental strain and the mental
stress was tough.
A lot of people had a hard timelooking forward, I think, and
so I think it sounds like y'allimmediately got to work on
(05:59):
looking forward by like, here'swhat we got to deal with.
Now, let's deal with it andthen we'll worry about moving
forward.
So, did you have reserves orinsurance, or you know how did I
mean?
Obviously, one of the bigthings that happens to
businesses in a, in a naturaldisaster, is hey, you know, can
you how are we going to pay forthis thing?
Because it's a big.
(06:20):
You know, financially it's abig.
You know it's a big.
Oops, I mean, it's a holy cow,this wasn't in the plan.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, I think you know there's all kinds of
personalities out there andthere's a good amount of
entrepreneurs that are on theoptimistic side of the fence,
and that doesn't.
That's me.
That doesn't always play intoplanning for those unexpected
(06:56):
events to happen.
So, whether it's making surethey have flood insurance or
some working capital set asideat least for us, and especially
in this event, we found out howimportant that is so that you
can get started really quicklyIf we didn't have that working
(07:16):
capital set aside, we wouldstill be waiting for our flood
insurance to come through,because it's still in process,
and if we weren't able to getonto that moisture mitigation as
quickly as we did orreconstruction as quickly as we
(07:37):
did and now we're 100%operational we would have been
in a tough spot.
So I think you know if welearned anything, it's to plan
for those unexpected events.
Make sure you have that nestegg set aside and protect it as
much as possible If, even ifyou're not in the flood zone,
(08:00):
you know flood insurance is oneof those necessary things
because it doesn't require ariver just to get impacted by a
busted water pipe or some otherthing that blood insurance may
be helpful for.
So you know.
Our advice, at least to othersthat might be going into this,
is to, you know, get floodinsurance or something that
(08:23):
lowers your risk to some extentfor those unexpected situations,
and have that nest egg setaside so that you can keep on
plowing forward.
We were able to keep thatmomentum because we had a very
specific path forward.
We didn't have to look at thisamorphous future, which nobody
(08:45):
knew what the future held, butwe knew what the path to
reconstruction was.
We had full control over thatRight.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, I think it's that idea of what you can
control and what you can'tcontrol, bill, yeah, if you, the
simple explanation for why wehad such a our capital reserve
was in place.
We had just taken down an SBAloan in January of 2024.
We had recapitalized our wholebusiness after a couple of years
(09:15):
of operation and wespecifically acquired a nest egg
to cover this five-yearprojection that we had put
together.
And the flood was not what weintended to spend that money on,
but the point is that it wasthere, and another requirement
of that SBA loan was that wecarried flood insurance.
(09:37):
So we had our flood insurancebuttoned up and in place and I
think you know I would encouragepeople as you're opening a
business or you're looking atgrowing your business.
A lot of these guidelines arethere for a reason, and I don't
mean you got to do everythingthat.
You know the guidelines helpedus.
Let's just let's call it whatit was right.
(09:58):
Like they were in place, webuilt two feet above base flood
elevation.
That that allowed us to weatherthat big flood event.
We had flood insurance and thenwe had a capital reserve and
you know that's why we're openand operational right now.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, I think we often get mad at the lenders and
say, why do they have theserequirements?
But they know I mean they'repredicting their money.
So you know it's an investment,it's not a gift, and they want
to get paid back and they knowthat, hey, these things have to
be in place.
And I love what you said aboutthe area of control, and I
(10:40):
always draw it as two concentriccircles the area of control is
in the middle and then the areaof concern is the stuff outside.
You can't do anything about it,you can't do anything about the
river, but you can do, you cancontrol the thing.
So well done on all fronts.
Let me ask you something.
It came up when you weretalking about, like you know,
I'm an entrepreneur and I'moptimistic and I'm in there and
(11:01):
I'm guessing, joe, you might bea little more on the
conservative side and let's,let's.
So it's a good partnership.
Talk about having partners andworking together as a partner.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
How have y'all, how have y'all navigated that Shoot
man, the ham and egg, right, Imean, you know, I think, if you
use the disaster as a filter, Imean, you know, having a partner
to lean on during that periodwas instrumental and kind of you
know, just the emotionalstrength of drawing off of one
(11:32):
another.
You have a good day, you knowyou're pulling one forward and
vice versa, um, and you know, Ithink, if you go back to we
started this business in 2022,right, and Joe just turned 50.
Um, so, happy birthday, joe.
Don't tell him that, oh, comeon.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Happy birthday, joe.
Sorry, yeah, is that today?
Is that today actually?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
A couple of days ago.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, congrats.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So you know, I'm 46.
I mean, we're in the middle ofour lives.
We have kids, families, youknow.
Jumping off a cliff as anentrepreneur in your early 20s
when it's the only thing youwant to focus on and you have so
much time and space to do thatis one scenario, is one scenario
.
And then if you kind of hit itin the middle of your life, like
(12:20):
we did, we needed thatpartnership in order to tow the
load together.
And you know, I've had familystuff, joe's had family stuff.
It was just real life, you know, and we're able to kind of move
in and out of focus so that youknow when we have needs outside
of work, one's able to be hereand help operate this business.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, and I think you know, besides the just sharing
the burden concept, it's alsoour.
You know differentpersonalities which you kind of
alluded to there.
Bill Shelton is very much amomentum man.
He's, you know, leaning forward.
He's got the bias for action,he's the optimist and I'm the
(13:07):
practical one, the data-drivendecision one.
You know the intention behindthat momentum and I think you
know, as long as we recognizethat we and I think you know as
long as we recognize that wethat both things together are
really powerful, becausesometimes you know, I can get
frustrated with him when he'soff running we haven't thought
(13:30):
about it.
He can get frustrated with mewhen I'm saying, hey, let's
think about this, and you knowhe's ready to go.
But it is a really goodpartnership when we are able to
pause and think but then go.
If we didn't have that dynamic,this wrong way, if it was just
(13:51):
me, this concept, this businesswould still be on 16,000
spreadsheets and would havenever been realized.
And if Shelton was doing it onhis own, you know, we wouldn't
have as many people saying howmuch intentionality is behind
(14:11):
what they experience.
So between the two of us we'reable to have something real that
people can touch and feel andcomment on how intentional it is
.
So it works really well for us.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, I think you have to have both in a
partnership.
You've got to have thatentrepreneurial sort of go get
it, let's just get done with itkind of thing.
But you also have to have thepractical sort of operation side
.
I always say it's a.
In most businesses there's asales component and an
operations component.
Of course you got to have thefinancial component as well, but
I I see a lot in businesses as,as they grow, If it's just one
(14:52):
owner, they've got to employsomeone to take care of
whichever part they're notstrong in.
So it's so it's great.
It's great that you, that youguys, have that.
So just a quick aside what'sthe?
Where'd you come up with thename?
I mean, it's kind of a greatname, right a name and a brand.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Not everybody in our little circle thought so either.
Um, you know what?
What was really cool aboutcoming up with that name when we
had, you know, narrowed it downto three of them, we had the
name wrong way was in there andanother one was in there.
I think it was like west bendor something.
It it felt very appealing tothe masses.
It sounded like someneighborhood development or
(15:46):
something, and everybody likedit when we were testing the
market.
But Wrong Way didn't test aswell, meaning not as many people
liked it, but the people thatdid like it really liked it.
They thought that was thecoolest name.
And where it comes from is theriver that we just got done
(16:07):
talking about.
It is one of the few rivers inthe world that flows from south
to north Right, so it is ourwrong way river here locally,
and both Shelton and I have havein our history, um working on
the river.
He was a kayak instructor, Iwas a whitewater rafting guide
(16:29):
on the French Broad Riveractually, and that was one of
the little stories I told theguests when we were going down.
The French Broad River is it'sone of the few rivers in the
world that flows from south tonorth yep, yeah, yeah, it's,
yeah, it's backwards, um, or itfeels backwards because it
doesn't.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
It doesn't looks like on a map.
It ought to go the other way,but yeah that's correct, yeah
there's a couple more, but it's,it's a, that's a, that's a,
that's an, that's an interestingone.
Well, let me ask you um whathave been some of your biggest
lessons?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
As a business.
What have been our biggestlessons?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, maybe one each.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I mean as the optimist in the duo.
I think you know my biggestlesson has been that it's not
going to be as linear as youwant it to be.
And you know, just becausethere are highs and lows doesn't
mean that you're not doing theright thing and that it's not
heading the right direction.
But you know that kind ofresiliency as a small business,
(17:39):
you know.
I think in American cultureit's you know culture everybody
wants to use the tech.
The dot-com example of did you100, 1,000 exit and how did you
build it up and sell it?
And I think the reality of thesmall business community is it's
a slow, long grind and youenjoy your wins, you learn
(18:03):
something from your losses butyou keep it pointed, the right
direction.
And you know, ultimately you'reable to grow your business and
your community and your customerbase.
And you know I think that's thelong-winded answer in saying
that you know it's it's, it's aslow win.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
That's what I've learned.
That's the optimist answer wegot it.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
No, I got it.
It's got to be long winded,it's got to be right, cause you
got to describe the whole thing.
It's cool, that's good.
How about you, joe?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yeah, I think, besides what we already talked
about, which is that kind ofyeah in capital S to egg and you
know whatever version ofinsurance applies to your
business Um, it's all aboutfocus and prioritization,
because, especially as a smallbusiness, uh, especially as an
(18:56):
owner, um, there's going to beso many things that you have to
do and I would love to hire abunch of people to focus on all
those things, but the reality isthat there are just some things
that are going to bedeprioritized and not focused on
(19:16):
because we don't have the timeor the money to focus on it.
So be at least for us beintentional about what your
priorities are and where you'regoing to focus your time, and
revisit that with someregularity, because you can get
the blinders on and get sweptaway by everything that has to
(19:42):
be done, and then you pick yourhead up a year later and you go,
what, what are we even doing?
Right, so you know just beingintentional with prioritization,
knowing that you can only focuson the top one, two, three,
four priorities, and then youknow, planning to revisit that
(20:06):
those priorities every quarteror twice a year, once a year, uh
, so that you can ask your, youryourself, the question, uh, of
whether or not they're stillappropriate.
And we should put our head downand keep focusing on those
priorities, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, I like it, I like it a lot.
So let's do a sort of a quickfire round.
Just quick answer.
So EPIC is a acronym and so thefirst part of the E stands for
education.
Just a quick thought oneducation when it comes to
running a business.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Oh, I would say, how do you get involved civically,
like, how does your municipalitywork?
Who makes decisions?
You know, how can you getinvolved?
I sit on a city commission andI was involved before the flood
happened.
(21:05):
That type of involvement, thosenetworks, those connections
have become so valuable now thatthe city is talking about okay,
what do we do, how do werebuild.
Just being involved prior tothe flood has become so valuable
as those conversations ramp up.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, and you get an education in how the government
and the permitting and all thatstuff works.
So it's, yeah, it's crazy.
So how about planning?
The P stands for planning.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I mean, I've learned a lot planning from Joe.
You know he's pragmatic in howwe lay things out, but you know,
I think that planning for mehas allowed, you know wrong way,
to have annual goals,three-year, five-year goals, and
then we kind of have toreevaluate how we're tracking
against those goals and I thinkthat ultimately affects your
(22:00):
day-to-day example being theflood.
Right, I mean, we flooded inSeptember, closed in October.
We're having one of the slowestwinters you know Asheville's
ever had, closed in October.
We're having one of the slowestwinters Asheville's ever had
and we had to recalculate all of2025 because it didn't paper
out like we had it before theflood.
So, you know, planning,adapting and then replanning,
(22:21):
right.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean plans change, I mean, but you
got to think it through.
So you know, well done onhaving a plan, I mean, it's what
I would say, which I'm sure youhad to have to get your SBA
loan anyway.
Yeah, the I stands forinspiration.
So either how do you, where doyou find inspiration, or how do
you be an inspiration?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Either one.
Yeah, I continue to findinspiration from our guests and
(23:06):
our local customers that use ourproperty.
I mean, people come in and dothings here to continue to learn
from them and then, you know,make sure that that that new
experience that they brought toour place is something that we
then offer to other people,right?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, I would.
I would second that you know,besides our guests reacting and
commenting about theirexperiences, just people in the
community and how they react tothis, especially if it's the
first time that you've seen it.
I know this is a podcast andyou can't exactly see what wrong
way.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And you ought to go by there and look at it.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really is.
If you're in Asheville, go seeit.
If you haven't been, it'sawesome.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, that's what I get inspired by, because we're
in it day to day.
The newness has worn off Right.
So for the folks that react toit, that are seeing it for the
first time and saying how coolit is or how novel it is, it
reminds me of that cool factorthat we experienced when we're
(24:16):
drawing it up on a piece ofpaper.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yep and the C is commitment.
So what's your thoughts oncommitment?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Man, we have a parent company that operates this
business called All ForwardOutdoors, and All Forward is the
rafting call that you give asyou enter a rapid and you're
telling your guest in your boatto paddle their butts off.
So I think you know we're anAll Forward business all the way
(24:46):
.
I mean commitment is how youactualize your dream.
So you know, don't be afraid ofthe commitment if you want to
realize, you know, your smallbusiness dream.
No.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I love that.
Actualize your dream.
All forward, All forward.
Actualize your dream.
That might be the title of thispodcast.
We'll think about that.
We'll think about that one.
A couple more quick questions.
One's serious and the otherone's just a little bit of fun.
(25:20):
What do you wish that you hadknown before you went into this?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
What do you wish somebody had told you that's a
good one.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, I mean know that.
You know the the newness ofoperating a new business is
going to wear off and what'sgoing to be left over is
operating a business for a long,long time.
So be sure that it's somethingthat you want to commit a lot of
(25:54):
hours to.
I come from corporate Americaand you know it was a grind and
I you know there were weeks thatI was spending 60, 65 hours a
week doing that job and itwasn't for myself.
(26:14):
But if you're going to own yourown business, you're going to
work that plus some.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, it's fixed.
You traded a 65-hour job for a100-hour job.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, that yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
That's good, and if you, if you have a family, make
sure you have thoseconversations with your families
, because you're not the onlyone that's committing to that.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
That's right yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred
percent.
How about you, shel?
What do you wish?
Somebody told you.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You know, it's kind of that point I made earlier
about it not being linear, right.
I mean, in a way I'm on thesales side, I did the
fundraising, the business kindof development side of getting
this place put together, andthat felt like at the time that
that was my Mount Everest, likeI had summited and man, that was
(27:07):
it.
But you know, I wish somebodyhad kind of told me you know,
hey, that's, that is your firstfalse summit that you have just
reached.
And, man, you're, you're goingup there and it's going to take
a while to get there.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, no, that's cool .
Um, yeah, so.
So you met playing soccer.
What positions do you guys play?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I was playing in the midfield, joe played in the back
.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, I was kind of the big sweeper.
I'm 6'4" and not quick, but Igot really long legs.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So I can just get in people's way yeah, no, it's cool
, it's.
I just think it's interesting.
What I think it fitspersonalities where people end
up playing yeah yeah, it'spretty, it's it's, it's pretty
interesting.
So where do people find you orhow can they get a hold of you?
How can they check you out?
Yeah, yeah, we're online.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
We're at wrongwaycampgroundcom and that's
that's an easy thing to look upas well, and we've got an
Instagram handle, facebookhandle as well as a LinkedIn
handle, and then you can getShelton at Wrong Way Campground
or Joe at Wrong Way Campgroundand yeah, please reach out, come
take a tour.
And I mean part of you knowwhat's inspiring to me is
(28:31):
helping people kind of talkthrough their own small business
dreams.
So if you're thinking aboutbuilding this kind of concept,
love to hear your ideas andshare what we can.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So are there any plans in thefuture for more developments or
more lodging opportunities oranything in the five-year plan?
Stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yes, good, cool Ford Outdoors to continue to bring
new developments to Ashevilleand the surrounding area that
are outdoor focused and valuesdriven.
So that's what we intend to do.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Well, it's been super coolhaving you.
I've enjoyed talking to you.
I hope it's been fun for y'all.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, thanks for the time, bill.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, it's been great .
Hey, and until next time allthe best.
Thanks, bill.
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