May 19, 2025 • 27 mins
What if the question wasn't "What skills do I have?" but rather "Who do I need to become?" This transformative mindset shift forms the foundation of our enlightening conversation with Jason De Los Santos, founder of Pixelated Stories, who shares how this approach has fueled his entrepreneurial journey.
Jason reveals how he transformed from a self-described "recovering introvert" into a successful marketing entrepreneur by reframing his natural curiosity as a superpower rather than a limitation. "I used to think that was seen negatively," he explains, "and so I just turned that sort of negative thing into what now is something that helps me in my day-to-day life and job." This authenticity allows him to connect deeply with local business clients who need help telling their stories and finding their ideal customers.
ABOUT JASON:
Jason is the founder of Pixelated Stories, where he helps small and medium-sized businesses turn their websites into 24/7 sales machines. With a focus on long-term digital strategies like SEO, email marketing, and CRM automation, he’s passionate about simplifying tech for business owners who feel overwhelmed by it all. Based in Asheville, NC, Jason lives with his wife and two kids and spends his free time songwriting, lifting weights, and taking photos.
Thanks for Listening. You may contact me at https://billgilliland.actioncoach.com/
All the best!
Bill
Thanks for listening. Please hit the subscribe button, leave us a 5 star review, and share this podcast. You can reach me at williamgilliland@actioncoach.com.
All the best!
Bill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey and welcome to this week's episode of Epic
Entrepreneurs.
And I've got a cool guest.
He's a friend of Action Coach,a friend of he's helping us out
now with a bunch of stuff JasonDe Los Santos, with Pixelated
Stories.
I'm glad to have him.
But before we get to that, Ijust want to mention to keep
your eye out for the AshevilleBusiness Summit coming in the
(00:22):
fall, coming in September.
It's going to be happeningright around the one-year
anniversary of Helene, and soit's all going to be all about
resilience and building up andbuilding back Asheville and the
resurgence of our economy here,and you're going to want to
attend it.
It's going to be pretty awesome.
And I also want to mention ifyou've got specific needs, if
(00:45):
you're a business owner andyou'd like to sit down with me
or one of our coaches, we've gota great offer right now and
that's for two free weeks ofcoaching.
All you got to do is just hitus up here.
You can email me directly,williamgilliland at
actioncoachcom, or you can go onour website and book an
appointment with me and we'llget it all set up for you.
If you have questions aboutwhat that involves, it's pretty
(01:07):
much what it says we're going togive you two free weeks of
coaching and if you like whatyou see, then maybe we'll do
some business, and if you don't,we'll still be friends.
So looking forward to it.
Hey, I got Jason here.
Welcome to the show, jason.
Thank you so much, bill.
Thanks for having me.
So Jason's company is calledPixelated Stories.
What the heck is PixelatedStories?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
So it's a marketing company for local businesses and
I can talk a little bit aboutthe history of it, but
essentially, the name is that weall have a story to tell and,
as humans, we connect withstories Customers are looking
for they might not consciouslythink about it that way, but
(01:50):
they are looking for the rightstory that suits what they're
looking for, what they need,whether it's a product or a
service, and we're just alldigital now.
99% of us are online, and whynot share your story with that
customer that is looking, lookslike everybody has that perfect
customer and that every customerhas like that perfect company
that they're looking for, and soI just try to connect the two.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, I love that.
I always say that everybody'sgot a book in them and, of
course, I probably first heardthat from somebody who's trying
to help people write books, butit's still.
But I think it's true and soit's, it's, it's the same thing,
right?
Everybody's got a story.
Yeah, and I think we can.
We can all do a better job oftelling that, telling that story
(02:33):
.
So let me ask you somequestions about your business.
If you had to start over inyour business, what would you do
differently?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Um, I think about that every once in a while.
I think first of all would benot to reinvent the wheel.
I love researching and planningand that whole thing, but for
the types of businesses that Ihave now and have owned in the
past, it's like these problemshave been figured out by
somebody else.
And I'm not trying to sendrockets to Pluto.
I don't need to have that typeof business.
(03:03):
I'm just trying to create agood business to help, to be of
service to people here locallyin Asheville and WNC, and the
problems that I have now havebeen figured out by other people
.
So I wish I would have learnedto ask more questions to people
that have been in the placesthat I've been and that have
already figured out how to do it.
Talk to more people, minimizethose risks and just move
(03:28):
forward and not think about itso much.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, that's good advice.
That's good advice to reach out.
I think we're taught in schoolto do your own work and, frankly
, that's bad advice when itcomes to business.
Go talk to the people who'veblazed the trails, go talk to
the people who've already doneit and, if you know, they've got
, and, and even even the outsidelooking in things.
(03:52):
So what have been some of yourbiggest learnings as a business
owner?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Um, yeah, I think, um , looking at competitors
reaching out like I regularlyreach out to people that are
quote unquote competitors morepeople it always surprises me
how people are so willing toshare if they feel like you're
coming from a good place, nottrying to steal, but just more
to add to the community.
I think the other big thing isthat everybody is making it up
(04:21):
as they go along.
Uh, that everybody's making itup as they go along.
I used to think that, uh, youknow, at some point you were
sort of crowned an expert inwhatever area and that's
probably a BS.
Um, you know, we're all justlike, we start somewhere,
wherever that is, and we justhave to figure out how to get to
where we're going.
Uh, so, like in in my industryas a marketer, um, you know,
(04:41):
when I first started years agohad this feeling of like, oh,
like, I don't know this out ofthe other, but everybody that
I've talked to didn't know anyof it at some point and they
just picked up one skill at atime, figured it out, applied it
, you know, help the customerlearn more, and they just kept
that cycle going of just, youknow, learning something new,
becoming better at it, helpingsomebody, serving somebody with
that skill set and just gettingbetter over time.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, you can't know everything.
I mean, I remember sitting downwith a guy one time we tried to
figure out, like, how manydifferent sort of methods of
marketing there were, and Ithink we were up to 27.
And that wasn't like dividingout social media, that was like
social media was one of those.
I mean it was you know.
(05:26):
I mean because there's, youknow, hundreds of social media
sites.
But yeah, it's prettyinteresting.
Yeah, and no one's ever beenwhere you are in your business
at this particular time inhistory.
They may have been similaryears ago, but they're not there
.
So, you're right, we got tofigure it out years ago, but
they're not there.
So you're right, we got tofigure it out.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
What do you think?
Some of the misconceptions areabout running a business A lot.
So let's see, on the one hand,for example, I have one friend
right now who he works forsomeone and he's considering
starting a business, and what heconstantly says man, you're so
brave for having your ownbusiness, and I kind of laugh at
it just because I've beenrunning my own businesses
forever.
(06:11):
But I think it's just one ofthose things, like you just
learn anything, right.
I find it incredible that wedrive the cars, which are these
giant killing machines.
We figured out how to use, howto, you know, use the clutch and
the gas and brake and whatnot.
And I feel like if you canlearn how to do that, you can
learn most any other skill, um,so I think that's one of the big
(06:34):
things that I I um hear aboutfrom from folks that are trying
to get into business, um, andthen the other part is, just
like I mentioned, is that youcan, um, sorry, the other part
is that instead of trying tofigure out everything at once,
it's just trying to figure out,like, what's the next thing that
I need to solve, or the orwhat's the problem that I have,
(06:55):
and just figured that one thingout.
We don't have to solve everysingle thing at once.
It's just like what's the nextthing that will get me, uh, to
the next level, and then justrepeating that over and over
again.
So I feel like we get veryoverwhelmed with thinking that
we have to know all the thingsand figure out all the things at
once, and that's just not thecase.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, a pretty wise man once told me hey, it's
better to figure out the whatand then worry about the how,
and then you get overwhelmedwith the how.
The way to do that is to chunkit down into what's the next
thing.
That's going to help you reachthe next level, and so I love
that.
I love that.
I love the next thing to solvethe next problem, and then the
next thing to solve that problem, and then, yeah, chunking it
(07:38):
down into little pieces.
So what do you attribute yourgrowth to?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I'm constantly curious.
I love learning.
I was trying to figure out.
You know what's the next thing.
I do like to spend a little bitof my week in just sort of
serendipity, whether it'smeeting people, that has no like
I have no agenda.
There's just trying to meetfolks that are interesting, that
are doing that are smarter thanme, which you know.
There's a lot of those folksjust trying to learn about new
(08:05):
technology, new tool these days,especially with AI.
So I'm like your tech nerdfriend.
I love technology, lovetinkering with things, and so
that can keep me.
That could be a full-time job,just trying to understand AI,
how you can apply it to yourbusiness, to your life, for fun.
So that's kind of how my brainworks just how do things work,
(08:29):
and trying to work it backwards.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, we've noticed that.
I'm naturally curious too, andsome people would call that nosy
.
That's the negative way to saycurious.
But yeah, we've noticed that alot of our clients are curious,
that curiosity is one of theirthings.
How did you establish thathabit?
That's an interesting habit ofjust allowing time in your what
(08:55):
you call it serendipity forthings to just flow or happen.
How did you establish that?
How did you come across that?
That's not usual.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, so I think in the in the past.
So I the way that I say it isthat I'm a recovering introvert
and so as a as an introvert, youknow, the typical thing is you
see, somebody is in a room fullof other people and you're sort
of like this you know, fly onthe wall, you're observing from
afar, and I always had thesequestions of like, oh, I'm
curious about this person orthis thing or how this works,
and whatever.
I got over that.
(09:24):
We don't have to talk aboutthat right now, but I just let
those questions that I wouldhave as being an introvert or
sort of like an outcast, andjust use that as more like a
superpower in the sense of like,I just want to know more about
this person.
I want to know more about thisperson, I want to know more
(09:44):
about how this thing works.
Um, and so it used that sort ofuh, what I used to think was
kind of an annoying trait, uh,and just turn that into, uh,
something that people enjoy.
Like, people love answeringquestions about themselves or
about what they do, about theirprofession or about their family
or whatever it is.
And, um, I used to um, thinkthat that was seen negatively,
and so I just turned that sortof negative thing into what now
(10:05):
is something that helps me in myday-to-day life and job.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, I think that people enjoy talking about
something they know somethingabout, or themselves, and
probably in the reverse order ofthat, but yeah, I think that's
interesting, and probably in thereverse order of that, but yeah
, I think that's interesting.
I want to talk about thisintrovert thing because a lot of
people, a lot of businesspeople and a lot of business
owners, I mean, I think they'remore introverts than extroverts.
(10:31):
Right, I mean statistically inthe world.
What, like I mean, did you justdecide one day, hey, I'm just
going to go ask people questions, I'm just going to deal with
this thing that you know, inthis world, where it seems like
it's a fallacy, it seems like itrewards extroverts, but it's
not A lot of.
(10:52):
Yeah, I found that, for example, a lot of public speakers are
actually introverts.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It's just that you know they had to get over
something to be able to.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that roles like theroles that you assign to
yourself or to other people orthings, can be really powerful
or really dangerous, because howwe see ourselves and we attach
a label to ourselves like, oh,I'm an introvert, and so then we
take on that role in all partsof our lives.
And so the way that I startedthinking about this I forget
where I started seeing this frombut instead of thinking, okay,
(11:25):
I want to get to this thing,this goal or whatever marker in
my life, these are the skillsets and the tools that I have,
so how can I get there?
That's so limiting, as opposedto I want to get to this place.
What?
Who do I need to become to getthere?
And then being able to workbackwards and saying, oh well,
(11:47):
I'm not really good with thefinance portion, how do I figure
that out?
Take a class, go talk tosomebody, whatever it is, and
then just work backwards.
From who do I need to become?
As opposed to, these are mylimited set of skills.
I may or may not get there, sothat's kind of how I got to that
place.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
That's really intuitively smart, because I
think that we have a formula inAction Coach that says be times
do equals have, and I think mostpeople focus on in order to
have the things they want.
Yeah, who do you need to becomeand what do you need to do?
But most people end up saying,well, what do I do?
How can I do this?
What do I need to do?
They focus on the do to do andthen you end up not having, you
(12:32):
can't get there because there'sonly so much of you.
You run out of you, you run outof time, essentially.
And so, yeah, the rightquestion is who do I need to
become so that I can do the nextthing?
It's back to solving theproblem.
Who do I need to become tosolve the next problem?
Essentially, it's back to what?
Yeah, it's tying togethernicely.
So I love that.
(12:52):
I love that.
Who do I need to become?
That's a great title for thisepisode.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's more fun, it's more liberating than thinking
like, oh, I don't know x, thoughI can't do it.
Like you're, right away, youjust cut your limbs off.
As opposed to like okay, likewhat, what I need to do to get
there.
Like it's much more liberatingto paint a picture of where you
want to go, how you want to getthere.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Then just like, okay, I guess I can't, and I just you
know, yeah, yeah, I know thepicture, have the dream, have
the goal, but if you knew how todo it, you would have already
done it.
Yeah, so you have to becomesomebody else so you can figure
out what you need to do to do it.
You can run out of yourselflike how much you can do, but
(13:35):
you can't run out of who you canbecome.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, it's infinite.
You can become more.
So I know you're a big familyguy.
How do you balance business andpersonal?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
That's always a challenge, so one I work out of
the house, so that helps when,for example, the kids will come
home in a little bit and I'll behere.
I love opening the door for themand receiving them and just
being there physically and justemotionally for them, and it
just comes and goes.
(14:12):
Some days I'll have projectsand what I like to do is just
ask my family for almost likepermission to say like, hey, I'm
going to spend some more timewith this work thing.
Are you guys okay with that?
Uh, just because I feel like Ihave to constantly earn my right
to be, uh, a dad and husbandand not just assume that I've
(14:33):
already earned it for the thingsthat I've done in the past.
Like I just constantly have towork for it, the things that
I've done in the past, like Ijust constantly have to work for
it.
So I think that's one way thatjust keeps me focused on my
family is just that regularconversation, communication,
what, what do you need from me,how do I do this and the other
and how do I keep us fulfilled.
And having that balance withthe family helps me know how
(14:56):
much work I can do for my, formy clients.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
That's a good way to look at it.
So what qualities do you lookfor in people that you might
employ or collaborate with, orhowever you want to look at it?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
The changes, obviously depending or who I'm
looking for.
But, for example, I recentlyhired a developer just to help
me with some of the web stuff,and I mean in that role I could
have hired 20 million people.
Like there's just so many ofthese folks.
One of the things that I try todo is to figure out what is the
(15:42):
sort of like the, the smalltest that I can offer this
person to see if one, if they'repaying attention, like, do they
spot?
I think this is something thatyou did recently.
It's just seeing are peoplepaying attention?
Because when we're workingtogether, I'm not looking for
somebody that is expected toreceive every minute detail
about their job.
That's just not me, and so Iwant somebody that can take more
(16:04):
general direction of here's theoutcome and here's sort of your
boundaries, now go do it.
So I try to look for thosekinds of traits of people that
have had some independence inthe roles, that they speak
freely.
I don't want, yes, people.
I'm looking for folks that cancontribute, that they speak
freely, that I don't want, yes,people, I'm looking for folks
that can contribute.
And there are a couple otherthings, but those are a couple
(16:25):
of the things that I look for atthe beginning, it's just how
much attention to the detail dothey seem to have, and can they
take the reins once we've gottento a point of comfortability?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Right, yeah, me too.
I couldn't have said it better.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
All right, I got a little bitof a quick fire round.
As you know, bepic is anacronym and, just like a
sentence or two about each partof it, the B stands for bring
the energy.
What's your thought aroundbringing energy, or getting
(16:59):
energy, or energy in general?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
energy, or getting energy or energy in general.
Um, I, uh I don't know I forgetthe exact quote, but it's
something like, like energy, Ilove to go with the flow of
energy.
If I am feeling like I have alot of energy, I will try to use
that.
Uh, on days where it's likecloudy and rainy and sort of
doldrum, like I would use thatjust to be more creative, for
example, uh, it's like one ofthose things that you can't
(17:22):
squash energy, like it just betransformed into something else,
and so I just love to go withthe flow and still continue to
drive forward whatever thatlooks like.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, or even finding the flow, Like what gets you in
the flow right.
It's pretty interesting.
Okay, the E is education.
What's your thoughts oneducation?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
A lot of feelings about this.
I feel like education is justentertainment if it's not
applied.
In a world where we have prettymuch all the education at our
fingertips, we choose to use itor not how we see fit, and it's
much cooler to feel like you'resmart than to actually do
anything with it.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I love that Education is just entertainment unless
it's applied.
Wow, I love that.
I love that Planning P is forplanning.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
One of my favorite quotes is everybody gets punched
in the face.
Uh sorry, everybody's got toplan until they get punched in
the face.
The Mike Tyson quote Right andum, so I?
I'm a planner at heart, and soI've learned to plan less and do
more and take action fasterStill plan but then be able to
make a veer.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I love that.
Yeah, good, okay, okay.
The I is inspiration.
What are your thoughts aroundthe word inspiration?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
For me, inspiration is just surrounding myself with
really smart people, just folksthat have done things that I
admire in business, people thathave been already where I'm
trying to go.
That's inspirational because Ican see it's not somebody on
some social media reel tellingme how I can make a million
dollars in two hours.
Like I want to talk to peoplethat have done it in the real
(19:10):
world and have shed the blood,sweat and tears and actually
done the thing that I'm tryingto do.
That's inspirational to me.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, I love that the C stands for commitment.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
What are your thoughts around commitment?
With that commitment, I feellike if I kind of have an
(19:45):
extreme view on this that ifyou're not committed, so either
you're not drowning or you don'twant that thing deeply enough
to do anything about it, and soit's just much more comfortable
to just sit sort of like inlimbo in the middle and just
dream about what could be,instead of actually doing it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, it makes sense.
I like that.
Yeah, if you're in the middle,probably not committed, it's
like being on the fence, I guess.
Either you know you either gotto get on one side or the other,
depending on whether it's Ilove the way you said it
desperate, or you didn't desireit enough.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
(20:19):
Okay, here's a good one.
What do you wish somebody hadtold you that they didn't, that
you would like to tell somebodynow?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
There is a lot, but I think a couple of things I
mentioned earlier is likeeverybody's just making it up as
they go along.
You know, I used to think I usedto see somebody that was like I
don't know the guru or the topperson in their field.
I'm like, oh, like you knowthey're an expert, but they got
there somehow.
They just spent a lot ofwhatever it is you know whether
it's time or effort or just thatthey did something to get there
(21:00):
and that they're like, in a way, there are no experts, because
the more that you learn about atopic, the more you feel like
you still have to go Like, themore that you feel like you have
to learn.
You know there are these likeconcentric circles about
knowledge and mastery and whenyou get to that top level then
(21:20):
you figure out the smallerthings that make the biggest
difference and the biggestpoints of levers.
But I feel like anybody canchoose to be an expert in
something.
Somebody has to be an expert ina field or in an area, and so
why not you?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Oh, I like that.
Somebody has to be an expert,why not you?
Wow, yeah, that's powerful.
That'll get you out of yourintroverted seat and then get to
go ask some questions and golearn some stuff, won't it Right
?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So do you have any other words of advice for
business owners looking to grow.
Of the conversations that Ihave with, most of my clients
are small businesses who haveeither a professional service
company or like a home servicecompany, and they're great at
doing the thing.
They're great with their hands,or maybe a professional service
person, they're good with thenumbers and getting the books
(22:18):
right, but when it comes to thetechnology or the marketing side
of things, they get reallyoverwhelmed.
And one of the things that Itell folks is first of all, you
just have to market.
You have to advertise, likeadvertising essentially means to
be known.
You have to make people knowsomething about you or your
service, and you talked earlierabout all the different ways to
(22:41):
market or advertise and it'sreally overwhelming if you think
about all of those.
But instead my suggestion topeople is just choose one.
Let's call it a marketingchannel.
That ties in with a naturalability.
So, are you a good writer?
Are you a good speaker?
Do you like to create videos orsomething like that?
And go with that.
(23:01):
You're going to suck at it, andthat's fine, we all do, but
that'll make it so much morelong, lasting and better in the
end than if you say, like I gotto be on Instagram and I got to
be on TikTok and I got to go onYouTube and I got to do in
network and all these kinds ofthings and like you're just
going to get burnt out and wasteall the time that you spent on
it.
So choose the one area.
Figure out how to.
(23:22):
Not even figure out how to doit is just figure out how to
spend the time consistently overa long period of time and
eventually you'll learn how todo it just just by a matter of
spending time in it like prettymuch anything else.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah, you're going to getbetter with it.
All right, so if somebody wantsto get in touch with you,
what's the best way?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
All right.
So if somebody wants to get intouch with you, what's the best
way?
My website ispixelatedstoriesnet and I have
my contact information there.
We can set up a meeting.
Like I mentioned, most of mycustomers are people who need
local customers, and so I helpthem with either creating an
online presence so they can showup when people are searching
for them, or just to activelylook for customers.
(24:03):
If customers looking forsomething like plumbing near me,
for example, accountant near me, like something that you need a
local customer and thatcustomer is looking for a
company near them, that's mysweet spot of the people that I
can serve the best.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Perfect, love it, love it, pixelatedstoriesnet,
and we'll put that in.
We'll put it in the show notes.
Hey, fantastic, this is.
Thanks so much for being here.
It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Thanks so much, bill, and make sure people listening.
I'm just doing this for Bill isif you like the podcast, like
it.
Just take one minute out ofyour day and like that podcast.
It will help a ton to make surethat more people hear Bill's
interviews and stories.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, and it allows us to do more cool stuff too.
So there's a lot.
There's a lot to it.
So, hey, I just want to put inanother memory Like listen, just
keep your eyes open for theAsheville business summit coming
in September.
You're going to want to be partof it.
It is going to be big.
We bring in great outsidespeakers and great local
facilitators.
(25:06):
It's just a lot of fun, a lotof learning and it's going to be
great for our economy here inAsheville.
So we're looking forward toseeing you there, hey, and until
next time, all the best.
Hey and welcome to this week's episode of Epic
Entrepreneurs.
And I've got a cool guest.
He's a friend of Action Coach,a friend of he's helping us out
now with a bunch of stuff JasonDe Los Santos, with Pixelated
Stories.
I'm glad to have him.
But before we get to that, Ijust want to mention to keep
your eye out for the AshevilleBusiness Summit coming in the
(00:22):
fall, coming in September.
It's going to be happeningright around the one-year
anniversary of Helene, and soit's all going to be all about
resilience and building up andbuilding back Asheville and the
resurgence of our economy here,and you're going to want to
attend it.
It's going to be pretty awesome.
And I also want to mention ifyou've got specific needs, if
(00:45):
you're a business owner andyou'd like to sit down with me
or one of our coaches, we've gota great offer right now and
that's for two free weeks ofcoaching.
All you got to do is just hitus up here.
You can email me directly,williamgilliland at
actioncoachcom, or you can go onour website and book an
appointment with me and we'llget it all set up for you.
If you have questions aboutwhat that involves, it's pretty
(01:07):
much what it says we're going togive you two free weeks of
coaching and if you like whatyou see, then maybe we'll do
some business, and if you don't,we'll still be friends.
So looking forward to it.
Hey, I got Jason here.
Welcome to the show, jason.
Thank you so much, bill.
Thanks for having me.
So Jason's company is calledPixelated Stories.
What the heck is PixelatedStories?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
So it's a marketing company for local businesses and
I can talk a little bit aboutthe history of it, but
essentially, the name is that weall have a story to tell and,
as humans, we connect withstories Customers are looking
for they might not consciouslythink about it that way, but
(01:50):
they are looking for the rightstory that suits what they're
looking for, what they need,whether it's a product or a
service, and we're just alldigital now.
99% of us are online, and whynot share your story with that
customer that is looking, lookslike everybody has that perfect
customer and that every customerhas like that perfect company
that they're looking for, and soI just try to connect the two.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, I love that.
I always say that everybody'sgot a book in them and, of
course, I probably first heardthat from somebody who's trying
to help people write books, butit's still.
But I think it's true and soit's, it's, it's the same thing,
right?
Everybody's got a story.
Yeah, and I think we can.
We can all do a better job oftelling that, telling that story
(02:33):
.
So let me ask you somequestions about your business.
If you had to start over inyour business, what would you do
differently?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Um, I think about that every once in a while.
I think first of all would benot to reinvent the wheel.
I love researching and planningand that whole thing, but for
the types of businesses that Ihave now and have owned in the
past, it's like these problemshave been figured out by
somebody else.
And I'm not trying to sendrockets to Pluto.
I don't need to have that typeof business.
(03:03):
I'm just trying to create agood business to help, to be of
service to people here locallyin Asheville and WNC, and the
problems that I have now havebeen figured out by other people
.
So I wish I would have learnedto ask more questions to people
that have been in the placesthat I've been and that have
already figured out how to do it.
Talk to more people, minimizethose risks and just move
(03:28):
forward and not think about itso much.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, that's good advice.
That's good advice to reach out.
I think we're taught in schoolto do your own work and, frankly
, that's bad advice when itcomes to business.
Go talk to the people who'veblazed the trails, go talk to
the people who've already doneit and, if you know, they've got
, and, and even even the outsidelooking in things.
(03:52):
So what have been some of yourbiggest learnings as a business
owner?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Um, yeah, I think, um , looking at competitors
reaching out like I regularlyreach out to people that are
quote unquote competitors morepeople it always surprises me
how people are so willing toshare if they feel like you're
coming from a good place, nottrying to steal, but just more
to add to the community.
I think the other big thing isthat everybody is making it up
(04:21):
as they go along.
Uh, that everybody's making itup as they go along.
I used to think that, uh, youknow, at some point you were
sort of crowned an expert inwhatever area and that's
probably a BS.
Um, you know, we're all justlike, we start somewhere,
wherever that is, and we justhave to figure out how to get to
where we're going.
Uh, so, like in in my industryas a marketer, um, you know,
(04:41):
when I first started years agohad this feeling of like, oh,
like, I don't know this out ofthe other, but everybody that
I've talked to didn't know anyof it at some point and they
just picked up one skill at atime, figured it out, applied it
, you know, help the customerlearn more, and they just kept
that cycle going of just, youknow, learning something new,
becoming better at it, helpingsomebody, serving somebody with
that skill set and just gettingbetter over time.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, you can't know everything.
I mean, I remember sitting downwith a guy one time we tried to
figure out, like, how manydifferent sort of methods of
marketing there were, and Ithink we were up to 27.
And that wasn't like dividingout social media, that was like
social media was one of those.
I mean it was you know.
(05:26):
I mean because there's, youknow, hundreds of social media
sites.
But yeah, it's prettyinteresting.
Yeah, and no one's ever beenwhere you are in your business
at this particular time inhistory.
They may have been similaryears ago, but they're not there
.
So, you're right, we got tofigure it out years ago, but
they're not there.
So you're right, we got tofigure it out.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
What do you think?
Some of the misconceptions areabout running a business A lot.
So let's see, on the one hand,for example, I have one friend
right now who he works forsomeone and he's considering
starting a business, and what heconstantly says man, you're so
brave for having your ownbusiness, and I kind of laugh at
it just because I've beenrunning my own businesses
forever.
(06:11):
But I think it's just one ofthose things, like you just
learn anything, right.
I find it incredible that wedrive the cars, which are these
giant killing machines.
We figured out how to use, howto, you know, use the clutch and
the gas and brake and whatnot.
And I feel like if you canlearn how to do that, you can
learn most any other skill, um,so I think that's one of the big
(06:34):
things that I I um hear aboutfrom from folks that are trying
to get into business, um, andthen the other part is, just
like I mentioned, is that youcan, um, sorry, the other part
is that instead of trying tofigure out everything at once,
it's just trying to figure out,like, what's the next thing that
I need to solve, or the orwhat's the problem that I have,
(06:55):
and just figured that one thingout.
We don't have to solve everysingle thing at once.
It's just like what's the nextthing that will get me, uh, to
the next level, and then justrepeating that over and over
again.
So I feel like we get veryoverwhelmed with thinking that
we have to know all the thingsand figure out all the things at
once, and that's just not thecase.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, a pretty wise man once told me hey, it's
better to figure out the whatand then worry about the how,
and then you get overwhelmedwith the how.
The way to do that is to chunkit down into what's the next
thing.
That's going to help you reachthe next level, and so I love
that.
I love that.
I love the next thing to solvethe next problem, and then the
next thing to solve that problem, and then, yeah, chunking it
(07:38):
down into little pieces.
So what do you attribute yourgrowth to?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I'm constantly curious.
I love learning.
I was trying to figure out.
You know what's the next thing.
I do like to spend a little bitof my week in just sort of
serendipity, whether it'smeeting people, that has no like
I have no agenda.
There's just trying to meetfolks that are interesting, that
are doing that are smarter thanme, which you know.
There's a lot of those folksjust trying to learn about new
(08:05):
technology, new tool these days,especially with AI.
So I'm like your tech nerdfriend.
I love technology, lovetinkering with things, and so
that can keep me.
That could be a full-time job,just trying to understand AI,
how you can apply it to yourbusiness, to your life, for fun.
So that's kind of how my brainworks just how do things work,
(08:29):
and trying to work it backwards.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, we've noticed that.
I'm naturally curious too, andsome people would call that nosy
.
That's the negative way to saycurious.
But yeah, we've noticed that alot of our clients are curious,
that curiosity is one of theirthings.
How did you establish thathabit?
That's an interesting habit ofjust allowing time in your what
(08:55):
you call it serendipity forthings to just flow or happen.
How did you establish that?
How did you come across that?
That's not usual.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, so I think in the in the past.
So I the way that I say it isthat I'm a recovering introvert
and so as a as an introvert, youknow, the typical thing is you
see, somebody is in a room fullof other people and you're sort
of like this you know, fly onthe wall, you're observing from
afar, and I always had thesequestions of like, oh, I'm
curious about this person orthis thing or how this works,
and whatever.
I got over that.
(09:24):
We don't have to talk aboutthat right now, but I just let
those questions that I wouldhave as being an introvert or
sort of like an outcast, andjust use that as more like a
superpower in the sense of like,I just want to know more about
this person.
I want to know more about thisperson, I want to know more
(09:44):
about how this thing works.
Um, and so it used that sort ofuh, what I used to think was
kind of an annoying trait, uh,and just turn that into, uh,
something that people enjoy.
Like, people love answeringquestions about themselves or
about what they do, about theirprofession or about their family
or whatever it is.
And, um, I used to um, thinkthat that was seen negatively,
and so I just turned that sortof negative thing into what now
(10:05):
is something that helps me in myday-to-day life and job.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, I think that people enjoy talking about
something they know somethingabout, or themselves, and
probably in the reverse order ofthat, but yeah, I think that's
interesting, and probably in thereverse order of that, but yeah
, I think that's interesting.
I want to talk about thisintrovert thing because a lot of
people, a lot of businesspeople and a lot of business
owners, I mean, I think they'remore introverts than extroverts.
(10:31):
Right, I mean statistically inthe world.
What, like I mean, did you justdecide one day, hey, I'm just
going to go ask people questions, I'm just going to deal with
this thing that you know, inthis world, where it seems like
it's a fallacy, it seems like itrewards extroverts, but it's
not A lot of.
(10:52):
Yeah, I found that, for example, a lot of public speakers are
actually introverts.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It's just that you know they had to get over
something to be able to.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that roles like theroles that you assign to
yourself or to other people orthings, can be really powerful
or really dangerous, because howwe see ourselves and we attach
a label to ourselves like, oh,I'm an introvert, and so then we
take on that role in all partsof our lives.
And so the way that I startedthinking about this I forget
where I started seeing this frombut instead of thinking, okay,
(11:25):
I want to get to this thing,this goal or whatever marker in
my life, these are the skillsets and the tools that I have,
so how can I get there?
That's so limiting, as opposedto I want to get to this place.
What?
Who do I need to become to getthere?
And then being able to workbackwards and saying, oh well,
(11:47):
I'm not really good with thefinance portion, how do I figure
that out?
Take a class, go talk tosomebody, whatever it is, and
then just work backwards.
From who do I need to become?
As opposed to, these are mylimited set of skills.
I may or may not get there, sothat's kind of how I got to that
place.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
That's really intuitively smart, because I
think that we have a formula inAction Coach that says be times
do equals have, and I think mostpeople focus on in order to
have the things they want.
Yeah, who do you need to becomeand what do you need to do?
But most people end up saying,well, what do I do?
How can I do this?
What do I need to do?
They focus on the do to do andthen you end up not having, you
(12:32):
can't get there because there'sonly so much of you.
You run out of you, you run outof time, essentially.
And so, yeah, the rightquestion is who do I need to
become so that I can do the nextthing?
It's back to solving theproblem.
Who do I need to become tosolve the next problem?
Essentially, it's back to what?
Yeah, it's tying togethernicely.
So I love that.
(12:52):
I love that.
Who do I need to become?
That's a great title for thisepisode.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's more fun, it's more liberating than thinking
like, oh, I don't know x, thoughI can't do it.
Like you're, right away, youjust cut your limbs off.
As opposed to like okay, likewhat, what I need to do to get
there.
Like it's much more liberatingto paint a picture of where you
want to go, how you want to getthere.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Then just like, okay, I guess I can't, and I just you
know, yeah, yeah, I know thepicture, have the dream, have
the goal, but if you knew how todo it, you would have already
done it.
Yeah, so you have to becomesomebody else so you can figure
out what you need to do to do it.
You can run out of yourselflike how much you can do, but
(13:35):
you can't run out of who you canbecome.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, it's infinite.
You can become more.
So I know you're a big familyguy.
How do you balance business andpersonal?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
That's always a challenge, so one I work out of
the house, so that helps when,for example, the kids will come
home in a little bit and I'll behere.
I love opening the door for themand receiving them and just
being there physically and justemotionally for them, and it
just comes and goes.
(14:12):
Some days I'll have projectsand what I like to do is just
ask my family for almost likepermission to say like, hey, I'm
going to spend some more timewith this work thing.
Are you guys okay with that?
Uh, just because I feel like Ihave to constantly earn my right
to be, uh, a dad and husbandand not just assume that I've
(14:33):
already earned it for the thingsthat I've done in the past.
Like I just constantly have towork for it, the things that
I've done in the past, like Ijust constantly have to work for
it.
So I think that's one way thatjust keeps me focused on my
family is just that regularconversation, communication,
what, what do you need from me,how do I do this and the other
and how do I keep us fulfilled.
And having that balance withthe family helps me know how
(14:56):
much work I can do for my, formy clients.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
That's a good way to look at it.
So what qualities do you lookfor in people that you might
employ or collaborate with, orhowever you want to look at it?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
The changes, obviously depending or who I'm
looking for.
But, for example, I recentlyhired a developer just to help
me with some of the web stuff,and I mean in that role I could
have hired 20 million people.
Like there's just so many ofthese folks.
One of the things that I try todo is to figure out what is the
(15:42):
sort of like the, the smalltest that I can offer this
person to see if one, if they'repaying attention, like, do they
spot?
I think this is something thatyou did recently.
It's just seeing are peoplepaying attention?
Because when we're workingtogether, I'm not looking for
somebody that is expected toreceive every minute detail
about their job.
That's just not me, and so Iwant somebody that can take more
(16:04):
general direction of here's theoutcome and here's sort of your
boundaries, now go do it.
So I try to look for thosekinds of traits of people that
have had some independence inthe roles, that they speak
freely.
I don't want, yes, people.
I'm looking for folks that cancontribute, that they speak
freely, that I don't want, yes,people, I'm looking for folks
that can contribute.
And there are a couple otherthings, but those are a couple
(16:25):
of the things that I look for atthe beginning, it's just how
much attention to the detail dothey seem to have, and can they
take the reins once we've gottento a point of comfortability?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Right, yeah, me too.
I couldn't have said it better.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
All right, I got a little bitof a quick fire round.
As you know, bepic is anacronym and, just like a
sentence or two about each partof it, the B stands for bring
the energy.
What's your thought aroundbringing energy, or getting
(16:59):
energy, or energy in general?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
energy, or getting energy or energy in general.
Um, I, uh I don't know I forgetthe exact quote, but it's
something like, like energy, Ilove to go with the flow of
energy.
If I am feeling like I have alot of energy, I will try to use
that.
Uh, on days where it's likecloudy and rainy and sort of
doldrum, like I would use thatjust to be more creative, for
example, uh, it's like one ofthose things that you can't
(17:22):
squash energy, like it just betransformed into something else,
and so I just love to go withthe flow and still continue to
drive forward whatever thatlooks like.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, or even finding the flow, Like what gets you in
the flow right.
It's pretty interesting.
Okay, the E is education.
What's your thoughts oneducation?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
A lot of feelings about this.
I feel like education is justentertainment if it's not
applied.
In a world where we have prettymuch all the education at our
fingertips, we choose to use itor not how we see fit, and it's
much cooler to feel like you'resmart than to actually do
anything with it.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I love that Education is just entertainment unless
it's applied.
Wow, I love that.
I love that Planning P is forplanning.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
One of my favorite quotes is everybody gets punched
in the face.
Uh sorry, everybody's got toplan until they get punched in
the face.
The Mike Tyson quote Right andum, so I?
I'm a planner at heart, and soI've learned to plan less and do
more and take action fasterStill plan but then be able to
make a veer.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I love that.
Yeah, good, okay, okay.
The I is inspiration.
What are your thoughts aroundthe word inspiration?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
For me, inspiration is just surrounding myself with
really smart people, just folksthat have done things that I
admire in business, people thathave been already where I'm
trying to go.
That's inspirational because Ican see it's not somebody on
some social media reel tellingme how I can make a million
dollars in two hours.
Like I want to talk to peoplethat have done it in the real
(19:10):
world and have shed the blood,sweat and tears and actually
done the thing that I'm tryingto do.
That's inspirational to me.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, I love that the C stands for commitment.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
What are your thoughts around commitment?
With that commitment, I feellike if I kind of have an
(19:45):
extreme view on this that ifyou're not committed, so either
you're not drowning or you don'twant that thing deeply enough
to do anything about it, and soit's just much more comfortable
to just sit sort of like inlimbo in the middle and just
dream about what could be,instead of actually doing it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, it makes sense.
I like that.
Yeah, if you're in the middle,probably not committed, it's
like being on the fence, I guess.
Either you know you either gotto get on one side or the other,
depending on whether it's Ilove the way you said it
desperate, or you didn't desireit enough.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
(20:19):
Okay, here's a good one.
What do you wish somebody hadtold you that they didn't, that
you would like to tell somebodynow?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
There is a lot, but I think a couple of things I
mentioned earlier is likeeverybody's just making it up as
they go along.
You know, I used to think I usedto see somebody that was like I
don't know the guru or the topperson in their field.
I'm like, oh, like you knowthey're an expert, but they got
there somehow.
They just spent a lot ofwhatever it is you know whether
it's time or effort or just thatthey did something to get there
(21:00):
and that they're like, in a way, there are no experts, because
the more that you learn about atopic, the more you feel like
you still have to go Like, themore that you feel like you have
to learn.
You know there are these likeconcentric circles about
knowledge and mastery and whenyou get to that top level then
(21:20):
you figure out the smallerthings that make the biggest
difference and the biggestpoints of levers.
But I feel like anybody canchoose to be an expert in
something.
Somebody has to be an expert ina field or in an area, and so
why not you?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Oh, I like that.
Somebody has to be an expert,why not you?
Wow, yeah, that's powerful.
That'll get you out of yourintroverted seat and then get to
go ask some questions and golearn some stuff, won't it Right
?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So do you have any other words of advice for
business owners looking to grow.
Of the conversations that Ihave with, most of my clients
are small businesses who haveeither a professional service
company or like a home servicecompany, and they're great at
doing the thing.
They're great with their hands,or maybe a professional service
person, they're good with thenumbers and getting the books
(22:18):
right, but when it comes to thetechnology or the marketing side
of things, they get reallyoverwhelmed.
And one of the things that Itell folks is first of all, you
just have to market.
You have to advertise, likeadvertising essentially means to
be known.
You have to make people knowsomething about you or your
service, and you talked earlierabout all the different ways to
(22:41):
market or advertise and it'sreally overwhelming if you think
about all of those.
But instead my suggestion topeople is just choose one.
Let's call it a marketingchannel.
That ties in with a naturalability.
So, are you a good writer?
Are you a good speaker?
Do you like to create videos orsomething like that?
And go with that.
(23:01):
You're going to suck at it, andthat's fine, we all do, but
that'll make it so much morelong, lasting and better in the
end than if you say, like I gotto be on Instagram and I got to
be on TikTok and I got to go onYouTube and I got to do in
network and all these kinds ofthings and like you're just
going to get burnt out and wasteall the time that you spent on
it.
So choose the one area.
Figure out how to.
(23:22):
Not even figure out how to doit is just figure out how to
spend the time consistently overa long period of time and
eventually you'll learn how todo it just just by a matter of
spending time in it like prettymuch anything else.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah, you're going to getbetter with it.
All right, so if somebody wantsto get in touch with you,
what's the best way?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
All right.
So if somebody wants to get intouch with you, what's the best
way?
My website ispixelatedstoriesnet and I have
my contact information there.
We can set up a meeting.
Like I mentioned, most of mycustomers are people who need
local customers, and so I helpthem with either creating an
online presence so they can showup when people are searching
for them, or just to activelylook for customers.
(24:03):
If customers looking forsomething like plumbing near me,
for example, accountant near me, like something that you need a
local customer and thatcustomer is looking for a
company near them, that's mysweet spot of the people that I
can serve the best.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Perfect, love it, love it, pixelatedstoriesnet,
and we'll put that in.
We'll put it in the show notes.
Hey, fantastic, this is.
Thanks so much for being here.
It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Thanks so much, bill, and make sure people listening.
I'm just doing this for Bill isif you like the podcast, like
it.
Just take one minute out ofyour day and like that podcast.
It will help a ton to make surethat more people hear Bill's
interviews and stories.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, and it allows us to do more cool stuff too.
So there's a lot.
There's a lot to it.
So, hey, I just want to put inanother memory Like listen, just
keep your eyes open for theAsheville business summit coming
in September.
You're going to want to be partof it.
It is going to be big.
We bring in great outsidespeakers and great local
facilitators.
(25:06):
It's just a lot of fun, a lotof learning and it's going to be
great for our economy here inAsheville.
So we're looking forward toseeing you there, hey, and until
next time, all the best.
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