April 18, 2025 • 47 mins
On this Good Friday, Pastor Colin Smith joins us with insights on the life of Judas. How can a man who walked so closely with Jesus betray his friend and miss the real message of the Gospel? He will bring both a warning and a message of encouragement for all of us.
Today's Resource: Heaven, So Near - So Far: the story of Judas Iscariot
Equipped with Chris Brooks is made possible through your support. To donate now, click here.
This month's featured resource: Apologetics for an Ever-Changing Culture
Become a Monthly Partner: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/equipped/partners
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:15):
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brookes.
Hey there folks, Chris Brookes here. So grateful for you
joining us today. Why don't you strap on your seat belt?
We're going to navigate through another edition of equip and
the Contours of Culture with the lens of the biblical
(00:36):
worldview on. But before we do that, let me remind you,
this is the day that the Lord has made. He
has given it as a gift, so that you and
I may rejoice and be glad in it. So let's
do just that. Let's rejoice the Lord always. And again
I say rejoice! What a wonderful week we are in!
As we are rapidly approaching the most significant historical event
(01:00):
in human history the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I hope you have already made plans to be in
the house of the Lord, to gather together with the
people of God, to lift up the name of Jesus,
and to reflect on Scripture and to be reminded of
the things that not only that we believe, but we
profess to the world to be true, that Jesus is
(01:21):
the Son of God, that he came in flesh. He
lived a sinless life, that he died for you and I,
that we might be redeemed. And by his grace and
faith in him we can experience this wonderful salvation and
this new life in Christ. Isn't that good news that
we can have new life in Jesus? Uh, but yet
so many have neglected this wonderful salvation. And it's our
(01:44):
job to be his witnesses and his ambassadors. But as
we prepare for this wonderful weekend, I want to start
by really addressing those who have walked away from the church,
those who have abandoned the faith. We're hearing stories every day.
Reports are being produced every day that record the mass
(02:06):
number of people who are leaving churches throughout America, the
Western world and beyond. And yet very few conversation is
taking place on what causes this and what the Bible
has to say about it, and what we can learn
from Scripture. Today, I have a guest who's written a
phenomenal book, a fascinating book which is simply entitled Heaven
(02:26):
So Near, So far The Story of Judas Iscariot. Colin
S Smith is my guest today. Colin is a name
that many of you will recognize in particular if you're
in a Chicago area. He is the senior pastor of
the Orchard Evangelical Free Church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago.
He's also the host of the daily radio program Unlocking
(02:48):
the Bible. He was born in Scotland. He pastored two
churches in the UK before coming to the US. He's
an author, a Bible scholar and conference speaker. He and
his wife, Karen have two grown sons. You can find
his website at Unlocking the bible.org. You'll learn more about
him at our website. Org. Colin, how are you today?
S2 (03:09):
I'm doing great. Nice to hear you, Chris. Good to
be with you. I appreciate your program very much.
S1 (03:13):
Hey, I appreciate you. How are the good people of
the Orchard doing?
S2 (03:17):
In good heart and very grateful, especially at this time
of year, to celebrate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
You know, here in Jesus Christ we got something that
you can find nowhere else. A living Savior. I mean,
everywhere else in religion there is a system or an
ethic or whatever. We have a living Savior who is
able to transform lives. And the joy of that this week,
(03:40):
particularly as we anticipate Easter, is just tremendous.
S1 (03:44):
Yeah, I love that you said that. I think very
few people miss the fact that you can remove Mohammed
out of Islam and still have Islam. You can remove
Buddha out of Buddhism and still have Buddhism. You cannot
remove Jesus out of Christianity and still have Christianity. He
is the central figure not only of Christianity. Not only
(04:06):
are his teachings the foundation of our faith, but the
promise of the gospel is a personal relationship with him.
That is absolutely encouraging, isn't it?
S2 (04:16):
Yeah it is. You know, I mean, just on Sunday,
I was speaking about Jesus wonderful word that I am
the door. And I made the point. He said, I'm
the door, not the tunnel. I mean, a tunnel is
a long journey in which you may or may not
actually get to where you want to go. The door
is an instant access. Now, someone just taking up what
you were saying there a moment ago, Chris, who came
up to me afterwards and said, you know, I was
brought up in a Buddhist culture and it was all
(04:39):
about a life of doing certain things that may or
may not actually get you to where you want to
go in the end. And just the joy of Jesus
Christ with authority, being able to say, now look, you
come to me, put your faith in me, and you
move from death to life. And it's not some long
process either. Whoever believes in the Son of God has
crossed over from death to life. I mean, only a
(05:00):
living Savior can say that.
S1 (05:02):
Colin, I want you for a moment before we talk
about heaven so near, so far, to really encourage pastors
who are listening. Sadly, there would be many people who
will show up in churches across America only to be
disappointed or not to receive the promise of the gospel proclaimed. Uh,
please encourage us for a moment on why we should
not be ashamed of the gospel and why the centerpiece
(05:25):
of our preaching should be the glorious gospel of Jesus
Christ and nothing else.
S2 (05:30):
Well, what else would we want to offer people? I mean,
there is nothing that can compare to this. I mean,
I am not ashamed of the gospel of our Lord
Jesus Christ. Why? Because it is the power of God
for the salvation of everyone who believes. So it crosses
every culture it is relevant to every time we have
a living Savior to proclaim. And when he's proclaimed, he
(05:52):
touches and changes lives. So it's a wonderful thing to anticipate. And, uh,
everyone who has the privilege of speaking from a pulpit,
as you're speaking about pastors here, um, Chris, it wants
to be with a Bible not only in the hand,
but in the heart and in absolute authority over us,
because only then are we able to speak a word
(06:14):
that actually comes from God. Other than that, we're just
left with a world of opinion. And who needs another opinion?
What we need is the voice of the Son of God,
and we have that in Scripture.
S1 (06:23):
Absolutely. Some pastors may be listening to us and still
struggling to discern what God would have them to preach,
and maybe it would be good advice for them to
study the life of Judas. You've written a book on
his life. I call it a fascinating book, and it
really is. Talk a little bit about this book. Heaven
so near, so far. Why did you write it?
S2 (06:44):
Well, I wrote it because of people in my life
and then people in expanding circles around me, in my
own church and more broadly in the culture. We all
know someone who once professed faith and no longer has
any interest in the things of Jesus Christ, and most
Christian families will grieve over someone, somewhere in the family
(07:08):
circle who may once have claimed to be a Christ,
now has no interest whatsoever. And I see that not
only in my own life personally, but I see that in, um,
in the congregation that I pastor, the grief of parents
and grandparents and friends over folks who once professed faith,
(07:28):
and now they have no interest. And, you know, as
I looked at that and saw that it's actually a
growing trend, we're all aware, I think, and you've addressed
on your program, I think, uh, many times, Chris, the
fact that there are people who would have professed Christian
faith and now would say that they don't relate to
any form of faith. That's a significant movement. And here
(07:49):
we have a story in the New Testament that speaks
directly to this. We have the story of someone who
was as up close and personal with Jesus Christ as
you possibly could be. Judas Iscariot, one of the 12.
And yet he walks away, and he denies the faith
that he once professed. So I wanted to get inside
the skin of this person in order to try and
(08:12):
in a winsome way, make an appeal to folks who
may be discouraged about faith, may be tempted to walk
away from faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to
say to them, look from this story, you can make
a better choice. Don't go down this path. There's a
better way for you to go.
S1 (08:27):
I think that most of us just discard Judas, right?
He becomes a poster child of what not to do. Yeah.
And I think some of us don't realize the, for
lack of a better word, the evolution he went through
in his mindset. He didn't he didn't start out where
he ended. Just kind of talk a little bit about
how Judas became this person. That is a fateful tale
(08:52):
for generations to come.
S2 (08:54):
Yeah. Well, I think you make a very important point there, Chris,
that it's easy to write him off and put him
at a distance from us. We either do that by
calling him or regarding him as a villain or else
as a victim. You know, if he's the victim, then
it's poor Judas. He didn't have a chance and all
of that kind of thing. Whereas the Bible repeatedly tells
(09:14):
us about real choices that he made. And if we
just see him as a villain, then we're not going
to see him as anywhere close to us. But I'm
struck by the fact that this was a person who
was the witness to miracles that Jesus did. I mean,
he was in the boat when Jesus calmed the storm.
He would have distributed the bread and the fish. When
(09:34):
Jesus fed the the 5000, he saw Lazarus raised from
the dead. You can't have better evidence for faith than this.
You can't have a better mentor than Jesus Christ himself.
And he actually hears the teaching of Jesus. I mean,
the sermon on the Mount. He knows there's a heaven.
He knows there's a hell. So this is a person
who has every opportunity and yet walks away. And we
(09:56):
all know that there are folks like that who've been
brought up in a church environment who actually have have
seen A good and godly example. Have heard good and
faithful teaching and then have moved away. And so, wanting
to get to the heart of why and how that
happened was really the quest that I had in mind
in this book.
S1 (10:16):
I got to be honest with you. I hold back
the tears even now as I listen to you. I
think about people that I know personally, people in my
own family that I love dearly. People who once professed
Christ and no longer want to have anything to do
with the church, no longer are tolerant of hearing us
talk about the gospel. And and this is more than
(10:37):
just an academic exercise for you. This is more than
just a conversation for me. This is deeply, deeply personal.
There are so many lines that are powerful throughout this story.
You write about Judas's life from kind of first person narrative.
I think it's a brilliant way to approach the text.
(10:57):
But here's one of the lines that really stuck out
to me as you write about Judas in the introduction,
You say this. I want you to know. And these
are intended to be the words of Judas. He says,
I want you to know that I was neither a
helpless victim nor a hideous monster. I was a person
with hopes, dreams, doubts, fears, disappointments and frustrations, very much
(11:19):
like you. When I abandoned my faith, I felt I
had good reasons for doing so. Though now I live
with perpetual regret. Folks, I want those words to kind
of wash over you these words that God graced Colin
Smith to write as he took us into the mind,
and the thoughts of Judas Iscariot, this individual who had
(11:43):
all the opportunity of walking with Jesus and saw all
the wonderful miracles, but yet chose to walk away. Uh, Tim,
Charlie says this of all human beings, none passed so
close to the gates of heaven on his way to hell,
then Judas Iscariot. His story, expertly told by Colin Smith,
(12:04):
is an urgent cautionary tale for each one of us.
We got to take a short break, but when we
come back, we're going to ask Colin, why did Judas
walk away? What caused him to fall away? And what
causes us to fall away? If you have someone that
you love, someone that you are concerned about spiritually, make
sure you listen. This will help them. We'll be right
(12:26):
back with more of equipped right after this. Sharing your
faith can be challenging. How do you confidently engage with
(12:48):
questions about truth, technology, and culture while staying grounded in Scripture?
That's why Chris Brooks has chosen apologetics for an ever
changing culture as our gift. When you support equip this month,
it will help you provide thoughtful, informed answers to the
pressing questions of our time. Request your copy today with
(13:09):
a gift of any amount. Call (888)Â 644-4144 or visit equip radio.org.
Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded.
While we won't be taking calls, we do want to
connect with you on social media. Hey there folks, welcome
(13:31):
back to equipped with Chris Brooks talking to Colin Smith,
senior pastor of the Orchard Evangelical Free Church. I don't
know what you're doing this weekend, but if you're in
the northwest suburbs of Chicago, I would encourage you to
celebrate Jesus with the good people of the Orchard. Uh,
they would love to have you there. Uh, here's what
I promise you'll experience. You'll hear songs sung about Jesus.
(13:53):
You'll hear a message proclaiming the glory of Jesus, the
surpassing value supreme goodness of Jesus, and you'll have an
opportunity to surrender your life to Jesus, to be reconciled
to Jesus. And so please come invite a friend, but
be in the house of the Lord on this coming Sunday. Uh, Colin,
(14:14):
I think that what is most intriguing to me, to
those who are listening as we talk about, um, how
we can pray for how we can maybe, um, reach
those people who we love that once professed faith in Christ,
but now no longer do, is the question of why?
Why do they walk away? And when I read this book,
(14:37):
you give some indications on why you think Judas fell away.
Talk a little bit about that.
S2 (14:43):
You know, James in the New Testament says that a
double minded man is unstable in all of his ways,
and I think that's a pretty apt description of Judas.
There does seem to have been a double mindedness about him.
and in some way he seems to have tried to
tie Jesus to. His own agenda. And you know, whenever
(15:07):
a person tries to tie Jesus to an. Agenda, to
use Jesus as a means to an end, you know,
the end always wins and Jesus gets given up. Um,
on the altar of whatever that end is. In Judah's case,
it does seem that money was significant. And that comes out,
(15:27):
of course, he was the treasurer. We know that he
was taking money from the bag, so there was a
secret and unconfessed sin that remained in his life. Um,
of theft that was never brought out into the open
and confessed to the Lord. And that surely was part
of why, uh, Satan's dark power entered into him. But
(15:47):
you see something of his value system and the importance
of money to him. Uh, in that beautiful scene in
John 12, where, uh, Mary, uh, moved, no doubt by
the miracle of her brother being raised back to life,
Lazarus being raised from the dead. And there's this dinner
(16:09):
being held in Jesus honor. She wants to do something
to express her love for Christ, and she just pours
out this very expensive ointment all over Jesus. And Judas objects.
And the reason that he objects is that's too much money.
And it's fascinating the difference in evaluation of Jesus for Judas.
It was the cost of the perfume that made what
(16:32):
Mary did wrong. For Mary. It was the cost of
the perfume that made what she did right. Because to her,
Jesus was of supreme value. So you can see that
there's something different going on in the mind and in
the heart of Judas. Even at that point, his betrayal
isn't in a vacuum. It's the result of a double
mindedness that wants to tie Jesus to something else that
(16:53):
ultimately becomes more important.
S1 (16:57):
You know, you just said a number of things in
that short statement that I think are worthy of unpacking.
One has to do with ambition that we need to
be cautious, to not pin our ambitions or our personal
agendas on Jesus, as if he is calm, like a
genie in a bottle to fulfill our own wishes, whims
and desires. But it seems like you're also alluding to
(17:20):
the fact, and I find this intriguing about the life
of Judas is that he seems to wrestle with Jesus's authority.
He has no problem challenging Jesus. Seems like he feels
like in some ways, hey, I'm just as insightful as you,
just as smart as you. And if you just did
(17:40):
things my way, it would be so much better. Why
is it so important that we surrender fully to the
authority of Jesus and His teachings?
S2 (17:51):
Yeah, well, I think you've just said it superbly right there, Chris.
I mean, he's the Son of God. We are not.
And of course, the temptation to try and reverse the
order and put ourselves in the place of God goes
all the way back to the Garden of Eden. And
I think that, that's for sure, is one of the
ways that Satan got a stronghold in the life of Judas. Um,
(18:13):
just inverting the order so that he thinks that he's
in the position of being able to give direction to
to the Lord Jesus Christ. Of course, what that looks
like for us now, I mean, you know, I speak
as a pastor, how often there have been conversations with
people who, uh, who will say something like this, you know,
I am really struggling in my faith because why did
(18:36):
God not give me this? You know, my life didn't
work out in some way. There was something that came
into my life that was painful, difficult, and and why
did he not make it as I wanted it to be?
It's really the root of what's there. And we do
struggle in faith over that. But the reason that we
struggle is because we have the sense somewhere that the
(18:56):
Lord is the one who is to bring our agenda
to pass. Whereas in actual fact, to be a Christian
is completely the other way around. We're the servants who
are called to take up our cross and to follow him.
S1 (19:10):
You know, I think about this motto by Saint Anselm
and Anselm that's ascribed to him, which simply says faith
seeking understanding. And the reason why I bring this up
is because I believe that this is the better alternative
to the Christian faith than reasoning, seeking faith. And what
I mean by that is that I see many in
(19:31):
this generation that are walking away from the faith because
of something that they've learned in university, something they may
have read in the scientific journals that causes them to say, well,
maybe the scientists have outsmarted God. Maybe they've upset the
need for God. And and Christians are often described as
(19:53):
being unintellectual that we don't care about the life of
the mind. Well, I will say, as a pastor, I
care very much about the discipleship of the mind. But
yet I believe that all of that falls up under
faith in Christ, that what has to be established first
is faith in Christ. And as one person once said, Colin,
(20:13):
that if Christ did die and if he did raise
from the dead. It's not that there aren't other questions
in life, but those other questions simply become a footnote
in the broader narrative of his glorious resurrection. So, on
the one hand, we shouldn't deny the intellectual questions we have,
the curiosity that's placed there, I believe, by God, the
(20:34):
life of the mind as I've described it. But yet
we have to submit understanding and reasoning to faith and
not vice versa.
S2 (20:42):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And, um, faith seeking understanding is
absolutely the path on on which a Christian walks. And
I think the other thing that I want to add,
alongside everything that you've said there, Chris, that's that's so helpful,
is that the mind and the heart are really, really
(21:02):
closely tied together. And I find that when I have
conversations with folks that want to give simply an intellectual
reason for moving away from faith, and they'll come out
with one thing or another that they've latched onto, I
find it also helpful to to try and ask some
questions that just say, what's going on in the heart.
(21:22):
Because Jesus says, you know, light has come into the world.
But here's here's the verdict. Men loved darkness rather than light.
So there's something to do with the affection of the
heart that interplay with the direction that the mind chooses
to go. And I think for sure that you see
that in the example of Judas.
S1 (21:42):
I want to ask one more question and have you speak,
if we could, before we go to the next section
of the book about those who maybe walk away because
of tragedy. What do you say to those who have
experienced loss, pain, hurt those who may even now be
asking God, where were you when tragedy struck my life?
(22:04):
Like a tidal wave? What do we say to those?
S2 (22:07):
Well, I think the first thing is to to feel
from the heart an enormous compassion. And that's not a
small thing. You know, James says in his letter that
we're to be merciful to those who doubt. And I've
wanted in in addressing this issue of where people are
really struggling with faith to to come with that kind
(22:30):
of a sympathetic spirit and a spirit that recognizes that
behind every struggle with faith, there is a story, there
are real, real battles. But with that identification, I then
want to say, what good thing can come from moving
away from the only one who is able to bring
comfort and healing and help to your soul. What good
(22:54):
can come from distancing yourself from the very person who
is able to do what no one else is able
to do? And that is to bring hope and light
in regards to the future. That, of course, is the
tragedy of Judas that he puts himself in the darkest
of places because he cuts himself off from the very
person who is able to help him. And Peter, of course,
(23:17):
is very different. I mean, Peter, after the resurrection of Jesus,
looks up to a Savior who, although he has gone
through this awful darkness, Christ is able to restore him.
And that's where help and hope and healing always come from.
S1 (23:32):
What an interesting contrast, Peter. Judas, both in many ways
denied Christ. One seems to recover and choose the path
of restoration and repentance. The other we know his fate.
So let me ask this question. In the midst of
our compassion and sympathy for Judas, do you think Judas
will be in heaven?
S2 (23:51):
No, I really don't. And I think the scriptures are
very clear about that, at least three places. I mean,
Jesus says in John six of the disciples, one of
you is a devil. He then says, um, at the
Last Supper he says to the disciples, you are clean,
but not all of you. And then in John 17,
when our Lord Jesus prays, uh, you have him speaking
(24:13):
about guarding those the father has given. And not one
of them is lost, except the one, uh, who is
the son of destruction. So I think three times from
the lips of Jesus himself, we have a clear indication that, um,
Judas and is not a happy one and is not
in heaven. Um, and that just reminds us, I think,
(24:35):
of this truth that is really important that the Scripture
lays before us, that there is a heaven to gain
and there is a hell to avoid and we have
real choices. Judas made real choices, and there is a
Savior who holds out grace to every person, and moving
away from him, turning away from him holds no good
(24:56):
thing in the future for anyone.
S1 (24:59):
We have to make a choice, folks, and we have
to receive the grace of our Lord. We have to,
by faith, trust in him. We have to turn to
the only one who can heal the woundedness that we've
experienced by living in a fallen world. He's not abandoned you.
He's not turned his back on you. He loves you
and all that the world has to offer. Pairs in
(25:20):
comparison to his supreme value. We have to take another
short break. But when we come back, I'm going to
ask Colin to explain to us what he means by
eternal security. Can someone have. Can a Christian have confidence
in their eternal security? We'll also ask the question, what
(25:40):
if you don't identify with Judas? What if you feel
like you're not like Judas? Is there a message in
this book for you folks? So much more ground to cover.
We're just scratching the surface. We're going to give away
a few free copies as well, so you don't change
that dial. I promise you, the best is yet to come.
Next up on equip with Chris Brooks. Chris Brooks here
(26:16):
reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded and we won't
be taking your calls. Welcome back to equip with Chris Brooks.
So grateful for each and every one of you. I
want to say thank you to all of our friends,
our intercessors, prayer partners and financial supporters. We call you Equippers.
You help to make sure we are here. By God's
grace and your generosity, we're able to be here each
(26:39):
and every day, equipping Christians to more effectively live, share,
and defend their faith. If you're blessed by the program,
maybe you've been a long time listener and never supported
us before. We would love to ask you for your partnership,
so prayerfully consider becoming an Equipper today. This is a
monthly partner at any level that says, we'll rally around
(27:00):
you so that you can continue to take on the
tough questions of our culture with a commitment to Scripture
and to the centrality of Christ in all things. We
ultimately want to train men and women in Christ to
think critically and live compassionately. I think both are possible.
If you'd like to become a partner with the program,
(27:21):
simply call 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144. My guest today
is Colin Smith. He's the senior pastor of the Orchard
Evangelical Free Church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. He's
also a radio host, a host, a Bible scholar, and
(27:42):
the author of the book Heaven So Near, So Far
The Story of Judas Iscariot. Colin, I'm thinking about a
lot of parents who might be listening to me. I'm
one of those parents that are listening to our conversation
right now and wondering, how do I know if my
son or daughter is saved?
S2 (28:01):
Yeah, that's a really hard one, isn't it? And there's
a temptation to to kind of put everything on whether
there was at one time some kind of a decision
and so forth. I think that the answer of the
Lord Jesus is very, very clear when he speaks about
his sheep. And he says this, my sheep hear my
voice and they follow me. And so the evidence of
(28:24):
genuine faith is that it continues. And you have that
in Hebrews in chapter three and verse 14 as well,
where we're told we have come to share in Christ,
if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
So here's what that means. If a person has genuine faith,
they may indeed wander away. But if that faith was genuine,
(28:46):
they will come back. And that's, I think, something for
parents to pray for all of us as we're thinking
about someone we love. Lord, in your mercy, please bring
them back. And the hope that we have, of course,
is the ability of Christ to intercept a life and
to bring a person back. I think we also have
to say, though, that if, as in the case of Judas,
(29:08):
a person does not come back, then that is evidence
in and of itself that whatever they had, and whatever
they may have professed falls short of what the Bible
would call true faith and what it means to be
one of Christ's sheep. Since by definition the, you know,
Christ's sheep by the fact that they do follow him.
S1 (29:26):
If we are a friend, a family member, a pastor, Colin,
how do we know if we're dealing with a Judas
or a Peter? Or does it really matter? I mean,
do we ultimately treat them both the same?
S2 (29:41):
Yeah, I think the honest answer is that we often don't.
And I think the evidence of that, that we don't
always know, is that at the Last Supper itself, when
Jesus says, now one of you will betray me. And
the disciples don't all say, ah, that must be Judas.
In fact, very significantly, what they do is they all say,
is it I? Which indicates that all of the disciples
(30:03):
sitting around the table, they all felt like they had
the capacity to be the one that would let the
Lord down in this particularly heinous way. Um, but none
of them were identifying Judas. None of them were thinking
that it was obvious. And so I think we do
live with limitations of knowledge, which means that I think
there will be some surprises for us in heaven. But
(30:24):
here's what we do know that we can hold to
that the evidence of being Christ's sheep is that Christ's
sheep follow him. And so I want to say to
someone who is struggling with faith or moving away from faith. Look,
come back to Jesus Christ and let that be the
evidence that you really were his sheep. And you know,
if you were not his sheep, you need even more
(30:45):
to come back to Jesus Christ because you are in
need of him to bring new life to you, new
life that you haven't known before.
S1 (30:52):
Yeah, we won't always know, but our faithful call is
to present the gospel. Yeah, and to call men and
women to repentance. You know, uh, oftentimes you'll hear pastors
use this phrase eternal security. What is that? And is
that possible for for us to have?
S2 (31:11):
Yes. You know, I mean, I think of what Jesus
says in John 1028, wonderful words. He says, I give
them that is his sheep eternal life, and they shall
never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of
my hand. That's the most wonderful promise for a Christian
believer that Jesus says, I give you an eternal life. Well,
(31:32):
by definition, an eternal life is the one that doesn't end.
You can't have it today and not have it tomorrow.
It's eternal. That's its very nature. And so it follows
that if you have eternal life, you shall never perish.
That's John 316. Those who believe in him should not
perish but have eternal life. These two things are logical opposites.
They can't coexist together. But you see, Jesus makes that statement, Chris,
(31:57):
about his sheep. And so it simply then leaves the question, well,
how do we know who Christ's sheep are? Which is
back to what we were just saying a moment ago.
He says in the very next verse to this, well,
my sheep follow me. And therefore the evidence of being
Christ's sheep is that you follow him, that you hold
firm to the faith. If you have wandered away from
(32:17):
the faith, and you are one of Christ's sheep, you
will come back. You simply will. And that's very, very
good news. And that's why, at the heart of this book,
and at the heart of this story, is a call
to anyone who is wandering from Christ to come back,
to firmly confess him and to faithfully follow him.
S1 (32:34):
I want to talk about the title for just a moment.
Maybe this would have been a good place to start,
but it's called Heaven. So near so far. Is heaven real?
S2 (32:43):
Yeah, it absolutely is. And our Lord Jesus Christ came
from there and he has returned to there. He's there now,
and he's coming from there when he comes again in glory. And.
And hell is as real as heaven is. I mean,
one has to take these seriously if we're going to
take the Bible seriously at all, as absolutely we should do,
it is the very, very Word of God. But the
(33:05):
thing that has really caught my mind on this, Chris,
is that, you know, there was an old Puritan by
the name of Matthew Mead. He said it very well
that there is a way to heaven that goes right
by the gates of hell, and there is a way
to hell that goes right by the gates of heaven.
And if you think about it, the thief on the cross,
(33:26):
he got as close to hell as you could possibly get.
I mean, he was a few hours away from it.
S3 (33:31):
And yet was.
S2 (33:31):
Wonderfully saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's
how great Jesus is and how great his power is.
He can save someone at the very last moment from
the very worst of situations. But if you think about Judas,
he's the opposite. He gets as near to heaven as
you could imagine being walking with the Son of God,
even being a preacher of the gospel. But he ends
up in the other place. He ends up away from
(33:53):
the Lord. He ends up lost. And so there is
a warning that's given to us in the one story,
as well as a wonderful encouragement in the other. And
the message, therefore, that comes out from both is make
a better choice than Judas did, because there's hope for
every person in Jesus Christ.
S1 (34:10):
You refer to Luke 23, and there's so much we
can learn from Jesus's dialogue with the thief on the cross. Obviously,
there's two thieves that are there, Jesus in the middle,
one that refuses to acknowledge who he is, the other
who comes to a place of true repentance and acknowledging
the Lordship of Jesus Christ. But what what washes over
(34:31):
you when you hear these words. This day you will
be with me in Paradise.
S2 (34:37):
And how astonishing these words must have been to the
thief on the cross. I mean, he says to Jesus,
remember me when you come into your kingdom, which kind
of implies that he thinks maybe somewhere far, far off,
you know, there's going to be some kind of another life.
And maybe in that far off place, maybe the Son
(34:59):
of God will remember me. And Jesus responds to his
remember by with his today. Hey, you don't need to
worry about me forgetting. I'm telling you today, before the
sun's gone down, we, um, you will be with me
in Paradise. Which, of course, is the wonderful promise that,
of course, is given to every Christian believer that whether
it comes sooner or later for us, whether it comes
(35:21):
expected or unexpected, to be away from the body, is
to instantaneously be at home with the Lord. I mean,
what what richer gift could there be than to know
that that eternal life is yours? And that's the gift
that Christ gives to his sheep. And it's infinitely precious.
S1 (35:41):
Colin. This this book just tackles so many tough issues.
I want to quickly before we go to break, if
I could tackle the issue of suicide.
S3 (35:49):
Yeah.
S1 (35:50):
Because you don't avoid that. So Judith says this. So
why did I miss out on heaven? You need to
first know that it was not because I took my
own life. This, of course, added both to my sin
and to my misery. Taking my life was like betraying Jesus,
an irreversible sin. It was and always is, the ultimate
act of defiance against the God who gives life. It
(36:11):
is also an ultimate act of folly. What do you
want us to know about suicide in that statement?
S2 (36:17):
Yeah, well, I want to say a couple of things.
One is that I don't think that that that is
the reason why Judas was lost. I think the reason
that Judas was lost was that he gave up on Jesus.
And that's the central point of the book. Never give
up on Jesus. Um, with regards to the question that
often comes up, you know, is there a hope of
(36:39):
heaven for someone who's taken their own life? You know,
I answer that by saying there might be the Lord
knows who are his, and I think we have to
leave that there. Of course, the terrible thing about a
person taking their own life is that it is an
act of treachery. It is a defiance of God taking
the life that he's giving into their own hands. And
(37:01):
if a person knew the pain that comes to others
who love them as a result of this, they would never,
never do it, let alone the offense that it is
to God. So I want to be very, very clear
in speaking about that. And I also want to be
able to say to the many folks who have a
loved one or a friend who has been lost in
(37:23):
this way, that, um, where there has been faith in
the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord knows who are his.
S1 (37:32):
I'm so grateful for your, uh, your, uh, honesty in
dealing with this, your boldness and dealing with this. We
have to go to a break, but I want to
add my, uh, words of encouragement to those of you
who are listening that may be considering suicide. Maybe you
feel overwhelmed. Maybe you are in the fog of life.
Maybe you're in the blizzard of doubt that is consuming
(37:53):
you and causing it to be hard for you to
see what is true and what is real. Please understand
these words that suicide is a permanent solution to a
temporary problem. No matter what you're going through right now,
you don't have to do something that is irreversible. You
can turn to Jesus Christ and find safety. You can
(38:14):
find healing. You can find new life in him. He
is the resurrection. He is the life, and he is
the one that can make all things new. Uh, please
don't choose suicide. Reach out to a friend, a loved one,
a pastor who has rooted and grounded in Christ. Give
us a call. Reach out to us today, but we
want you to experience life and that more abundantly, and
(38:37):
that life is found in Jesus Christ. I have to
take a short break. When we come back, I'm going
to ask Colin to help us understand what happens when
a person, a person, opens up themselves to the destructive
power of Satan. What happens to their soul and how
can that be redeemed? Uh, we're going to take a
short break. We'll be right back. Don't change that dial.
(38:59):
So much more to come. Next up on equipped with
Chris Brooks. Christianity speaks to every aspect of life, but
sometimes we struggle to connect God's unchanging truth to our
changing world. Apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture by Sean
(39:23):
McDowell equips you with the practical tools for meaningful conversation
about faith. With chapters from 26 leading Christian thinkers, including
our own Chris Brooks. It's our impact gift this month
to you when you support the Ministry of Equipped. Call
(888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org. When you listen to equip,
(39:48):
you know I love to introduce you to some incredible
guests and topics, but there's one person and I want
you to meet more than anyone else. His name is
Jesus and he wants to have a genuine personal relationship
with you. He even died on the cross to take
the punishment for all of our sins, so that we
can join his eternal family. It would be my honor
(40:10):
to introduce you to Jesus today. If you want to
know more, call 888. Need him. That's 888. Need him.
Welcome back to equipped with Chris Brooks. Colin Smith is
my guest. This is the most glorious week of the calendar.
This is the week we celebrate the most defining moment
(40:33):
in human history. All of time is defined by the death, burial,
and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It
is of infinite importance because he is of supreme value. This,
my friends, is why we can't ignore him. We must
bow our knee to him and find our help and
our salvation in him. Uh, Colin, I literally am looking
(40:55):
at a sheet full of questions and notes that I
took from reading your book, and I know that time
fails me so I won't get to all of them,
but I think I should ask at least two. One
has to do with the possibility for individuals to open
themselves up to the destructive power of Satan. That is
a real possibility. We see it in the life of Judas,
(41:16):
don't we?
S2 (41:17):
Yeah. That's right. I mean, three times in the Gospels
we're told that Satan entered into him. But that didn't happen,
as you know, some kind of a matter of random chance. Um,
Satan doesn't have entrance into the life of a person
unless and until that life is opened. And very clearly,
you see that there are steps that Judas takes to
(41:39):
open his life up to the ever increasing dark grip
that evidently takes hold of his soul. We mentioned earlier
his unconfessed sin he'd been stealing from the bag. So
there's a secret being kept. There's a double life that's
being pursued. And he presses that down and just stays
(42:00):
with it. It's never brought out into the open. It's
never confessed. Well, there's a sure way in which Satan
begins to build a stronghold in a person's life. The
refusal to confess. Then you have his decision to go
and make this deal secretly with the religious leaders to
betray Jesus. Then he comes back and he keeps that
secret at the Lord's table when even the Lord Jesus
(42:22):
is holding out the bread, which of course was an
offer of friendship and another reaching out of love towards him.
So there's a real pattern here, I think, and it
fits what we know from the New Testament. James tells
us that there's a process by which sin builds a
position in the life of a person. It grows and,
(42:44):
you know, sin when it is fully grown, James says,
gives birth to death. And so I think what we
see in Judas life is an increasing opening of himself
up to darkness that eventually has a grip over him.
So that's a warning to us. You know, the devil
is a roaring lion. He's out to see who he
(43:05):
can devour and where entrance is given. He's going to
take advantage of that. Therefore see that he does not
create a stronghold and gain a grip. Um, in in
your life is really the message that comes out of that.
S1 (43:21):
So much more we could say about that again because
of time. I would encourage you to get a copy
of this book. Colin, I guess I want to land
the plane here, and that is Judith seemed to have
this false contriteness, but it was never true repentance. How
do we know the difference?
S2 (43:39):
Yeah, well, the difference is a very clear one that, um,
that remorse, um, and being contrite, as he certainly was,
he certainly regretted what he had done. He was very
sorrowful and even, as we've said, ended his life. But
what happens with him is he simply looks backward. He
turns in on himself. He condemns himself. There's never a
(44:00):
future in that. Now, repentance is very, very different because
rather than looking backwards, repentance looks forward and it looks upward.
It looks to Jesus Christ. And that's the huge difference
between Judas and Peter, that whereas the one story ends
in absolute tragedy, simply with self-condemnation. I've blown it. Well,
(44:21):
that's the end for me. And there's no future there
in the story of Judas. Um, for Peter, in God's grace,
he comes to repentance. He's wonderfully restored and lives a
marvelous life of service that's offered to the Lord. So
I want to say from this story of Judas, you
can make a better choice than Judas did. When you're
(44:41):
aware of your own weakness and failure, don't simply turn
in on yourself in self-condemnation. Look away from yourself and
up to Jesus Christ, because there's grace in him and
grace for every person, and that has to include you.
And that's the difference between remorse and repentance. And it
leads to entirely different places.
S1 (45:01):
Colin, as we close, we have about a minute left.
Can you call people to faith in Christ?
S2 (45:07):
I would love to do that. You know, um, whatever
it may cost you to follow hard after the Lord
Jesus Christ, it is Supremely worth it. The Son of
God holds good in his hand for you now. And
good in his hand for you in the future. And
however much it may cost you, and however difficult it
(45:28):
may be for you to follow hard after him, you
will never lose by following hard after Jesus Christ. The
other way is all loss. So whatever discouragement you have
faced take from the story of Judas this lesson, it
is always worth following Jesus. He is of supreme value.
So make it your cause today to come back to
(45:50):
him and to find the grace and the help and
the strength that he has for you.
S1 (45:55):
Maybe you can identify with the life of Judas. Maybe
you are inches away from hell and you know it.
And you have even thought about suicide, or giving up
or turning in on yourself. You're so gripped by yesterday.
I would encourage you to turn from your sins. Confess
your need for Jesus Christ. Acknowledge his lordship and ask
(46:18):
for him to come and be Lord of all in
your life. Bow the knee of your heart, and if
you do, he will make all things new. New life
is found in Christ and in Christ alone. Please contact
us if today you have, uh, just come to a
place of repentance and faith in Christ. You call us
(46:39):
at (877)Â 548-3675 or reach out to us through social media. Uh,
inbox us and we will, I promise you, respond to you.
We appreciate you. Colin, for joining us. Thank you for
the great book. Heaven so near, so far. Have a
great Easter, Colin.
S4 (46:56):
Yeah. And you? Likewise. God bless you. Thank you.
S1 (46:59):
Thank you, folks, for listening in. I pray that you
were blessed. Until we're together again, remember, equipped with Chris
Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
Moody Global Ministries.
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brookes.
Hey there folks, Chris Brookes here. So grateful for you
joining us today. Why don't you strap on your seat belt?
We're going to navigate through another edition of equip and
the Contours of Culture with the lens of the biblical
(00:36):
worldview on. But before we do that, let me remind you,
this is the day that the Lord has made. He
has given it as a gift, so that you and
I may rejoice and be glad in it. So let's
do just that. Let's rejoice the Lord always. And again
I say rejoice! What a wonderful week we are in!
As we are rapidly approaching the most significant historical event
(01:00):
in human history the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I hope you have already made plans to be in
the house of the Lord, to gather together with the
people of God, to lift up the name of Jesus,
and to reflect on Scripture and to be reminded of
the things that not only that we believe, but we
profess to the world to be true, that Jesus is
(01:21):
the Son of God, that he came in flesh. He
lived a sinless life, that he died for you and I,
that we might be redeemed. And by his grace and
faith in him we can experience this wonderful salvation and
this new life in Christ. Isn't that good news that
we can have new life in Jesus? Uh, but yet
so many have neglected this wonderful salvation. And it's our
(01:44):
job to be his witnesses and his ambassadors. But as
we prepare for this wonderful weekend, I want to start
by really addressing those who have walked away from the church,
those who have abandoned the faith. We're hearing stories every day.
Reports are being produced every day that record the mass
(02:06):
number of people who are leaving churches throughout America, the
Western world and beyond. And yet very few conversation is
taking place on what causes this and what the Bible
has to say about it, and what we can learn
from Scripture. Today, I have a guest who's written a
phenomenal book, a fascinating book which is simply entitled Heaven
(02:26):
So Near, So far The Story of Judas Iscariot. Colin
S Smith is my guest today. Colin is a name
that many of you will recognize in particular if you're
in a Chicago area. He is the senior pastor of
the Orchard Evangelical Free Church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago.
He's also the host of the daily radio program Unlocking
(02:48):
the Bible. He was born in Scotland. He pastored two
churches in the UK before coming to the US. He's
an author, a Bible scholar and conference speaker. He and
his wife, Karen have two grown sons. You can find
his website at Unlocking the bible.org. You'll learn more about
him at our website. Org. Colin, how are you today?
S2 (03:09):
I'm doing great. Nice to hear you, Chris. Good to
be with you. I appreciate your program very much.
S1 (03:13):
Hey, I appreciate you. How are the good people of
the Orchard doing?
S2 (03:17):
In good heart and very grateful, especially at this time
of year, to celebrate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
You know, here in Jesus Christ we got something that
you can find nowhere else. A living Savior. I mean,
everywhere else in religion there is a system or an
ethic or whatever. We have a living Savior who is
able to transform lives. And the joy of that this week,
(03:40):
particularly as we anticipate Easter, is just tremendous.
S1 (03:44):
Yeah, I love that you said that. I think very
few people miss the fact that you can remove Mohammed
out of Islam and still have Islam. You can remove
Buddha out of Buddhism and still have Buddhism. You cannot
remove Jesus out of Christianity and still have Christianity. He
is the central figure not only of Christianity. Not only
(04:06):
are his teachings the foundation of our faith, but the
promise of the gospel is a personal relationship with him.
That is absolutely encouraging, isn't it?
S2 (04:16):
Yeah it is. You know, I mean, just on Sunday,
I was speaking about Jesus wonderful word that I am
the door. And I made the point. He said, I'm
the door, not the tunnel. I mean, a tunnel is
a long journey in which you may or may not
actually get to where you want to go. The door
is an instant access. Now, someone just taking up what
you were saying there a moment ago, Chris, who came
up to me afterwards and said, you know, I was
brought up in a Buddhist culture and it was all
(04:39):
about a life of doing certain things that may or
may not actually get you to where you want to
go in the end. And just the joy of Jesus
Christ with authority, being able to say, now look, you
come to me, put your faith in me, and you
move from death to life. And it's not some long
process either. Whoever believes in the Son of God has
crossed over from death to life. I mean, only a
(05:00):
living Savior can say that.
S1 (05:02):
Colin, I want you for a moment before we talk
about heaven so near, so far, to really encourage pastors
who are listening. Sadly, there would be many people who
will show up in churches across America only to be
disappointed or not to receive the promise of the gospel proclaimed. Uh,
please encourage us for a moment on why we should
not be ashamed of the gospel and why the centerpiece
(05:25):
of our preaching should be the glorious gospel of Jesus
Christ and nothing else.
S2 (05:30):
Well, what else would we want to offer people? I mean,
there is nothing that can compare to this. I mean,
I am not ashamed of the gospel of our Lord
Jesus Christ. Why? Because it is the power of God
for the salvation of everyone who believes. So it crosses
every culture it is relevant to every time we have
a living Savior to proclaim. And when he's proclaimed, he
(05:52):
touches and changes lives. So it's a wonderful thing to anticipate. And, uh,
everyone who has the privilege of speaking from a pulpit,
as you're speaking about pastors here, um, Chris, it wants
to be with a Bible not only in the hand,
but in the heart and in absolute authority over us,
because only then are we able to speak a word
(06:14):
that actually comes from God. Other than that, we're just
left with a world of opinion. And who needs another opinion?
What we need is the voice of the Son of God,
and we have that in Scripture.
S1 (06:23):
Absolutely. Some pastors may be listening to us and still
struggling to discern what God would have them to preach,
and maybe it would be good advice for them to
study the life of Judas. You've written a book on
his life. I call it a fascinating book, and it
really is. Talk a little bit about this book. Heaven
so near, so far. Why did you write it?
S2 (06:44):
Well, I wrote it because of people in my life
and then people in expanding circles around me, in my
own church and more broadly in the culture. We all
know someone who once professed faith and no longer has
any interest in the things of Jesus Christ, and most
Christian families will grieve over someone, somewhere in the family
(07:08):
circle who may once have claimed to be a Christ,
now has no interest whatsoever. And I see that not
only in my own life personally, but I see that in, um,
in the congregation that I pastor, the grief of parents
and grandparents and friends over folks who once professed faith,
(07:28):
and now they have no interest. And, you know, as
I looked at that and saw that it's actually a
growing trend, we're all aware, I think, and you've addressed
on your program, I think, uh, many times, Chris, the
fact that there are people who would have professed Christian
faith and now would say that they don't relate to
any form of faith. That's a significant movement. And here
(07:49):
we have a story in the New Testament that speaks
directly to this. We have the story of someone who
was as up close and personal with Jesus Christ as
you possibly could be. Judas Iscariot, one of the 12.
And yet he walks away, and he denies the faith
that he once professed. So I wanted to get inside
the skin of this person in order to try and
(08:12):
in a winsome way, make an appeal to folks who
may be discouraged about faith, may be tempted to walk
away from faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to
say to them, look from this story, you can make
a better choice. Don't go down this path. There's a
better way for you to go.
S1 (08:27):
I think that most of us just discard Judas, right?
He becomes a poster child of what not to do. Yeah.
And I think some of us don't realize the, for
lack of a better word, the evolution he went through
in his mindset. He didn't he didn't start out where
he ended. Just kind of talk a little bit about
how Judas became this person. That is a fateful tale
(08:52):
for generations to come.
S2 (08:54):
Yeah. Well, I think you make a very important point there, Chris,
that it's easy to write him off and put him
at a distance from us. We either do that by
calling him or regarding him as a villain or else
as a victim. You know, if he's the victim, then
it's poor Judas. He didn't have a chance and all
of that kind of thing. Whereas the Bible repeatedly tells
(09:14):
us about real choices that he made. And if we
just see him as a villain, then we're not going
to see him as anywhere close to us. But I'm
struck by the fact that this was a person who
was the witness to miracles that Jesus did. I mean,
he was in the boat when Jesus calmed the storm.
He would have distributed the bread and the fish. When
(09:34):
Jesus fed the the 5000, he saw Lazarus raised from
the dead. You can't have better evidence for faith than this.
You can't have a better mentor than Jesus Christ himself.
And he actually hears the teaching of Jesus. I mean,
the sermon on the Mount. He knows there's a heaven.
He knows there's a hell. So this is a person
who has every opportunity and yet walks away. And we
(09:56):
all know that there are folks like that who've been
brought up in a church environment who actually have have
seen A good and godly example. Have heard good and
faithful teaching and then have moved away. And so, wanting
to get to the heart of why and how that
happened was really the quest that I had in mind
in this book.
S1 (10:16):
I got to be honest with you. I hold back
the tears even now as I listen to you. I
think about people that I know personally, people in my
own family that I love dearly. People who once professed
Christ and no longer want to have anything to do
with the church, no longer are tolerant of hearing us
talk about the gospel. And and this is more than
(10:37):
just an academic exercise for you. This is more than
just a conversation for me. This is deeply, deeply personal.
There are so many lines that are powerful throughout this story.
You write about Judas's life from kind of first person narrative.
I think it's a brilliant way to approach the text.
(10:57):
But here's one of the lines that really stuck out
to me as you write about Judas in the introduction,
You say this. I want you to know. And these
are intended to be the words of Judas. He says,
I want you to know that I was neither a
helpless victim nor a hideous monster. I was a person
with hopes, dreams, doubts, fears, disappointments and frustrations, very much
(11:19):
like you. When I abandoned my faith, I felt I
had good reasons for doing so. Though now I live
with perpetual regret. Folks, I want those words to kind
of wash over you these words that God graced Colin
Smith to write as he took us into the mind,
and the thoughts of Judas Iscariot, this individual who had
(11:43):
all the opportunity of walking with Jesus and saw all
the wonderful miracles, but yet chose to walk away. Uh, Tim,
Charlie says this of all human beings, none passed so
close to the gates of heaven on his way to hell,
then Judas Iscariot. His story, expertly told by Colin Smith,
(12:04):
is an urgent cautionary tale for each one of us.
We got to take a short break, but when we
come back, we're going to ask Colin, why did Judas
walk away? What caused him to fall away? And what
causes us to fall away? If you have someone that
you love, someone that you are concerned about spiritually, make
sure you listen. This will help them. We'll be right
(12:26):
back with more of equipped right after this. Sharing your
faith can be challenging. How do you confidently engage with
(12:48):
questions about truth, technology, and culture while staying grounded in Scripture?
That's why Chris Brooks has chosen apologetics for an ever
changing culture as our gift. When you support equip this month,
it will help you provide thoughtful, informed answers to the
pressing questions of our time. Request your copy today with
(13:09):
a gift of any amount. Call (888)Â 644-4144 or visit equip radio.org.
Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded.
While we won't be taking calls, we do want to
connect with you on social media. Hey there folks, welcome
(13:31):
back to equipped with Chris Brooks talking to Colin Smith,
senior pastor of the Orchard Evangelical Free Church. I don't
know what you're doing this weekend, but if you're in
the northwest suburbs of Chicago, I would encourage you to
celebrate Jesus with the good people of the Orchard. Uh,
they would love to have you there. Uh, here's what
I promise you'll experience. You'll hear songs sung about Jesus.
(13:53):
You'll hear a message proclaiming the glory of Jesus, the
surpassing value supreme goodness of Jesus, and you'll have an
opportunity to surrender your life to Jesus, to be reconciled
to Jesus. And so please come invite a friend, but
be in the house of the Lord on this coming Sunday. Uh, Colin,
(14:14):
I think that what is most intriguing to me, to
those who are listening as we talk about, um, how
we can pray for how we can maybe, um, reach
those people who we love that once professed faith in Christ,
but now no longer do, is the question of why?
Why do they walk away? And when I read this book,
(14:37):
you give some indications on why you think Judas fell away.
Talk a little bit about that.
S2 (14:43):
You know, James in the New Testament says that a
double minded man is unstable in all of his ways,
and I think that's a pretty apt description of Judas.
There does seem to have been a double mindedness about him.
and in some way he seems to have tried to
tie Jesus to. His own agenda. And you know, whenever
(15:07):
a person tries to tie Jesus to an. Agenda, to
use Jesus as a means to an end, you know,
the end always wins and Jesus gets given up. Um,
on the altar of whatever that end is. In Judah's case,
it does seem that money was significant. And that comes out,
(15:27):
of course, he was the treasurer. We know that he
was taking money from the bag, so there was a
secret and unconfessed sin that remained in his life. Um,
of theft that was never brought out into the open
and confessed to the Lord. And that surely was part
of why, uh, Satan's dark power entered into him. But
(15:47):
you see something of his value system and the importance
of money to him. Uh, in that beautiful scene in
John 12, where, uh, Mary, uh, moved, no doubt by
the miracle of her brother being raised back to life,
Lazarus being raised from the dead. And there's this dinner
(16:09):
being held in Jesus honor. She wants to do something
to express her love for Christ, and she just pours
out this very expensive ointment all over Jesus. And Judas objects.
And the reason that he objects is that's too much money.
And it's fascinating the difference in evaluation of Jesus for Judas.
It was the cost of the perfume that made what
(16:32):
Mary did wrong. For Mary. It was the cost of
the perfume that made what she did right. Because to her,
Jesus was of supreme value. So you can see that
there's something different going on in the mind and in
the heart of Judas. Even at that point, his betrayal
isn't in a vacuum. It's the result of a double
mindedness that wants to tie Jesus to something else that
(16:53):
ultimately becomes more important.
S1 (16:57):
You know, you just said a number of things in
that short statement that I think are worthy of unpacking.
One has to do with ambition that we need to
be cautious, to not pin our ambitions or our personal
agendas on Jesus, as if he is calm, like a
genie in a bottle to fulfill our own wishes, whims
and desires. But it seems like you're also alluding to
(17:20):
the fact, and I find this intriguing about the life
of Judas is that he seems to wrestle with Jesus's authority.
He has no problem challenging Jesus. Seems like he feels
like in some ways, hey, I'm just as insightful as you,
just as smart as you. And if you just did
(17:40):
things my way, it would be so much better. Why
is it so important that we surrender fully to the
authority of Jesus and His teachings?
S2 (17:51):
Yeah, well, I think you've just said it superbly right there, Chris.
I mean, he's the Son of God. We are not.
And of course, the temptation to try and reverse the
order and put ourselves in the place of God goes
all the way back to the Garden of Eden. And
I think that, that's for sure, is one of the
ways that Satan got a stronghold in the life of Judas. Um,
(18:13):
just inverting the order so that he thinks that he's
in the position of being able to give direction to
to the Lord Jesus Christ. Of course, what that looks
like for us now, I mean, you know, I speak
as a pastor, how often there have been conversations with
people who, uh, who will say something like this, you know,
I am really struggling in my faith because why did
(18:36):
God not give me this? You know, my life didn't
work out in some way. There was something that came
into my life that was painful, difficult, and and why
did he not make it as I wanted it to be?
It's really the root of what's there. And we do
struggle in faith over that. But the reason that we
struggle is because we have the sense somewhere that the
(18:56):
Lord is the one who is to bring our agenda
to pass. Whereas in actual fact, to be a Christian
is completely the other way around. We're the servants who
are called to take up our cross and to follow him.
S1 (19:10):
You know, I think about this motto by Saint Anselm
and Anselm that's ascribed to him, which simply says faith
seeking understanding. And the reason why I bring this up
is because I believe that this is the better alternative
to the Christian faith than reasoning, seeking faith. And what
I mean by that is that I see many in
(19:31):
this generation that are walking away from the faith because
of something that they've learned in university, something they may
have read in the scientific journals that causes them to say, well,
maybe the scientists have outsmarted God. Maybe they've upset the
need for God. And and Christians are often described as
(19:53):
being unintellectual that we don't care about the life of
the mind. Well, I will say, as a pastor, I
care very much about the discipleship of the mind. But
yet I believe that all of that falls up under
faith in Christ, that what has to be established first
is faith in Christ. And as one person once said, Colin,
(20:13):
that if Christ did die and if he did raise
from the dead. It's not that there aren't other questions
in life, but those other questions simply become a footnote
in the broader narrative of his glorious resurrection. So, on
the one hand, we shouldn't deny the intellectual questions we have,
the curiosity that's placed there, I believe, by God, the
(20:34):
life of the mind as I've described it. But yet
we have to submit understanding and reasoning to faith and
not vice versa.
S2 (20:42):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And, um, faith seeking understanding is
absolutely the path on on which a Christian walks. And
I think the other thing that I want to add,
alongside everything that you've said there, Chris, that's that's so helpful,
is that the mind and the heart are really, really
(21:02):
closely tied together. And I find that when I have
conversations with folks that want to give simply an intellectual
reason for moving away from faith, and they'll come out
with one thing or another that they've latched onto, I
find it also helpful to to try and ask some
questions that just say, what's going on in the heart.
(21:22):
Because Jesus says, you know, light has come into the world.
But here's here's the verdict. Men loved darkness rather than light.
So there's something to do with the affection of the
heart that interplay with the direction that the mind chooses
to go. And I think for sure that you see
that in the example of Judas.
S1 (21:42):
I want to ask one more question and have you speak,
if we could, before we go to the next section
of the book about those who maybe walk away because
of tragedy. What do you say to those who have
experienced loss, pain, hurt those who may even now be
asking God, where were you when tragedy struck my life?
(22:04):
Like a tidal wave? What do we say to those?
S2 (22:07):
Well, I think the first thing is to to feel
from the heart an enormous compassion. And that's not a
small thing. You know, James says in his letter that
we're to be merciful to those who doubt. And I've
wanted in in addressing this issue of where people are
really struggling with faith to to come with that kind
(22:30):
of a sympathetic spirit and a spirit that recognizes that
behind every struggle with faith, there is a story, there
are real, real battles. But with that identification, I then
want to say, what good thing can come from moving
away from the only one who is able to bring
comfort and healing and help to your soul. What good
(22:54):
can come from distancing yourself from the very person who
is able to do what no one else is able
to do? And that is to bring hope and light
in regards to the future. That, of course, is the
tragedy of Judas that he puts himself in the darkest
of places because he cuts himself off from the very
person who is able to help him. And Peter, of course,
(23:17):
is very different. I mean, Peter, after the resurrection of Jesus,
looks up to a Savior who, although he has gone
through this awful darkness, Christ is able to restore him.
And that's where help and hope and healing always come from.
S1 (23:32):
What an interesting contrast, Peter. Judas, both in many ways
denied Christ. One seems to recover and choose the path
of restoration and repentance. The other we know his fate.
So let me ask this question. In the midst of
our compassion and sympathy for Judas, do you think Judas
will be in heaven?
S2 (23:51):
No, I really don't. And I think the scriptures are
very clear about that, at least three places. I mean,
Jesus says in John six of the disciples, one of
you is a devil. He then says, um, at the
Last Supper he says to the disciples, you are clean,
but not all of you. And then in John 17,
when our Lord Jesus prays, uh, you have him speaking
(24:13):
about guarding those the father has given. And not one
of them is lost, except the one, uh, who is
the son of destruction. So I think three times from
the lips of Jesus himself, we have a clear indication that, um,
Judas and is not a happy one and is not
in heaven. Um, and that just reminds us, I think,
(24:35):
of this truth that is really important that the Scripture
lays before us, that there is a heaven to gain
and there is a hell to avoid and we have
real choices. Judas made real choices, and there is a
Savior who holds out grace to every person, and moving
away from him, turning away from him holds no good
(24:56):
thing in the future for anyone.
S1 (24:59):
We have to make a choice, folks, and we have
to receive the grace of our Lord. We have to,
by faith, trust in him. We have to turn to
the only one who can heal the woundedness that we've
experienced by living in a fallen world. He's not abandoned you.
He's not turned his back on you. He loves you
and all that the world has to offer. Pairs in
(25:20):
comparison to his supreme value. We have to take another
short break. But when we come back, I'm going to
ask Colin to explain to us what he means by
eternal security. Can someone have. Can a Christian have confidence
in their eternal security? We'll also ask the question, what
(25:40):
if you don't identify with Judas? What if you feel
like you're not like Judas? Is there a message in
this book for you folks? So much more ground to cover.
We're just scratching the surface. We're going to give away
a few free copies as well, so you don't change
that dial. I promise you, the best is yet to come.
Next up on equip with Chris Brooks. Chris Brooks here
(26:16):
reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded and we won't
be taking your calls. Welcome back to equip with Chris Brooks.
So grateful for each and every one of you. I
want to say thank you to all of our friends,
our intercessors, prayer partners and financial supporters. We call you Equippers.
You help to make sure we are here. By God's
grace and your generosity, we're able to be here each
(26:39):
and every day, equipping Christians to more effectively live, share,
and defend their faith. If you're blessed by the program,
maybe you've been a long time listener and never supported
us before. We would love to ask you for your partnership,
so prayerfully consider becoming an Equipper today. This is a
monthly partner at any level that says, we'll rally around
(27:00):
you so that you can continue to take on the
tough questions of our culture with a commitment to Scripture
and to the centrality of Christ in all things. We
ultimately want to train men and women in Christ to
think critically and live compassionately. I think both are possible.
If you'd like to become a partner with the program,
(27:21):
simply call 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144. My guest today
is Colin Smith. He's the senior pastor of the Orchard
Evangelical Free Church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. He's
also a radio host, a host, a Bible scholar, and
(27:42):
the author of the book Heaven So Near, So Far
The Story of Judas Iscariot. Colin, I'm thinking about a
lot of parents who might be listening to me. I'm
one of those parents that are listening to our conversation
right now and wondering, how do I know if my
son or daughter is saved?
S2 (28:01):
Yeah, that's a really hard one, isn't it? And there's
a temptation to to kind of put everything on whether
there was at one time some kind of a decision
and so forth. I think that the answer of the
Lord Jesus is very, very clear when he speaks about
his sheep. And he says this, my sheep hear my
voice and they follow me. And so the evidence of
(28:24):
genuine faith is that it continues. And you have that
in Hebrews in chapter three and verse 14 as well,
where we're told we have come to share in Christ,
if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
So here's what that means. If a person has genuine faith,
they may indeed wander away. But if that faith was genuine,
(28:46):
they will come back. And that's, I think, something for
parents to pray for all of us as we're thinking
about someone we love. Lord, in your mercy, please bring
them back. And the hope that we have, of course,
is the ability of Christ to intercept a life and
to bring a person back. I think we also have
to say, though, that if, as in the case of Judas,
(29:08):
a person does not come back, then that is evidence
in and of itself that whatever they had, and whatever
they may have professed falls short of what the Bible
would call true faith and what it means to be
one of Christ's sheep. Since by definition the, you know,
Christ's sheep by the fact that they do follow him.
S1 (29:26):
If we are a friend, a family member, a pastor, Colin,
how do we know if we're dealing with a Judas
or a Peter? Or does it really matter? I mean,
do we ultimately treat them both the same?
S2 (29:41):
Yeah, I think the honest answer is that we often don't.
And I think the evidence of that, that we don't
always know, is that at the Last Supper itself, when
Jesus says, now one of you will betray me. And
the disciples don't all say, ah, that must be Judas.
In fact, very significantly, what they do is they all say,
is it I? Which indicates that all of the disciples
(30:03):
sitting around the table, they all felt like they had
the capacity to be the one that would let the
Lord down in this particularly heinous way. Um, but none
of them were identifying Judas. None of them were thinking
that it was obvious. And so I think we do
live with limitations of knowledge, which means that I think
there will be some surprises for us in heaven. But
(30:24):
here's what we do know that we can hold to
that the evidence of being Christ's sheep is that Christ's
sheep follow him. And so I want to say to
someone who is struggling with faith or moving away from faith. Look,
come back to Jesus Christ and let that be the
evidence that you really were his sheep. And you know,
if you were not his sheep, you need even more
(30:45):
to come back to Jesus Christ because you are in
need of him to bring new life to you, new
life that you haven't known before.
S1 (30:52):
Yeah, we won't always know, but our faithful call is
to present the gospel. Yeah, and to call men and
women to repentance. You know, uh, oftentimes you'll hear pastors
use this phrase eternal security. What is that? And is
that possible for for us to have?
S2 (31:11):
Yes. You know, I mean, I think of what Jesus
says in John 1028, wonderful words. He says, I give
them that is his sheep eternal life, and they shall
never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of
my hand. That's the most wonderful promise for a Christian
believer that Jesus says, I give you an eternal life. Well,
(31:32):
by definition, an eternal life is the one that doesn't end.
You can't have it today and not have it tomorrow.
It's eternal. That's its very nature. And so it follows
that if you have eternal life, you shall never perish.
That's John 316. Those who believe in him should not
perish but have eternal life. These two things are logical opposites.
They can't coexist together. But you see, Jesus makes that statement, Chris,
(31:57):
about his sheep. And so it simply then leaves the question, well,
how do we know who Christ's sheep are? Which is
back to what we were just saying a moment ago.
He says in the very next verse to this, well,
my sheep follow me. And therefore the evidence of being
Christ's sheep is that you follow him, that you hold
firm to the faith. If you have wandered away from
(32:17):
the faith, and you are one of Christ's sheep, you
will come back. You simply will. And that's very, very
good news. And that's why, at the heart of this book,
and at the heart of this story, is a call
to anyone who is wandering from Christ to come back,
to firmly confess him and to faithfully follow him.
S1 (32:34):
I want to talk about the title for just a moment.
Maybe this would have been a good place to start,
but it's called Heaven. So near so far. Is heaven real?
S2 (32:43):
Yeah, it absolutely is. And our Lord Jesus Christ came
from there and he has returned to there. He's there now,
and he's coming from there when he comes again in glory. And.
And hell is as real as heaven is. I mean,
one has to take these seriously if we're going to
take the Bible seriously at all, as absolutely we should do,
it is the very, very Word of God. But the
(33:05):
thing that has really caught my mind on this, Chris,
is that, you know, there was an old Puritan by
the name of Matthew Mead. He said it very well
that there is a way to heaven that goes right
by the gates of hell, and there is a way
to hell that goes right by the gates of heaven.
And if you think about it, the thief on the cross,
(33:26):
he got as close to hell as you could possibly get.
I mean, he was a few hours away from it.
S3 (33:31):
And yet was.
S2 (33:31):
Wonderfully saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's
how great Jesus is and how great his power is.
He can save someone at the very last moment from
the very worst of situations. But if you think about Judas,
he's the opposite. He gets as near to heaven as
you could imagine being walking with the Son of God,
even being a preacher of the gospel. But he ends
up in the other place. He ends up away from
(33:53):
the Lord. He ends up lost. And so there is
a warning that's given to us in the one story,
as well as a wonderful encouragement in the other. And
the message, therefore, that comes out from both is make
a better choice than Judas did, because there's hope for
every person in Jesus Christ.
S1 (34:10):
You refer to Luke 23, and there's so much we
can learn from Jesus's dialogue with the thief on the cross. Obviously,
there's two thieves that are there, Jesus in the middle,
one that refuses to acknowledge who he is, the other
who comes to a place of true repentance and acknowledging
the Lordship of Jesus Christ. But what what washes over
(34:31):
you when you hear these words. This day you will
be with me in Paradise.
S2 (34:37):
And how astonishing these words must have been to the
thief on the cross. I mean, he says to Jesus,
remember me when you come into your kingdom, which kind
of implies that he thinks maybe somewhere far, far off,
you know, there's going to be some kind of another life.
And maybe in that far off place, maybe the Son
(34:59):
of God will remember me. And Jesus responds to his
remember by with his today. Hey, you don't need to
worry about me forgetting. I'm telling you today, before the
sun's gone down, we, um, you will be with me
in Paradise. Which, of course, is the wonderful promise that,
of course, is given to every Christian believer that whether
it comes sooner or later for us, whether it comes
(35:21):
expected or unexpected, to be away from the body, is
to instantaneously be at home with the Lord. I mean,
what what richer gift could there be than to know
that that eternal life is yours? And that's the gift
that Christ gives to his sheep. And it's infinitely precious.
S1 (35:41):
Colin. This this book just tackles so many tough issues.
I want to quickly before we go to break, if
I could tackle the issue of suicide.
S3 (35:49):
Yeah.
S1 (35:50):
Because you don't avoid that. So Judith says this. So
why did I miss out on heaven? You need to
first know that it was not because I took my
own life. This, of course, added both to my sin
and to my misery. Taking my life was like betraying Jesus,
an irreversible sin. It was and always is, the ultimate
act of defiance against the God who gives life. It
(36:11):
is also an ultimate act of folly. What do you
want us to know about suicide in that statement?
S2 (36:17):
Yeah, well, I want to say a couple of things.
One is that I don't think that that that is
the reason why Judas was lost. I think the reason
that Judas was lost was that he gave up on Jesus.
And that's the central point of the book. Never give
up on Jesus. Um, with regards to the question that
often comes up, you know, is there a hope of
(36:39):
heaven for someone who's taken their own life? You know,
I answer that by saying there might be the Lord
knows who are his, and I think we have to
leave that there. Of course, the terrible thing about a
person taking their own life is that it is an
act of treachery. It is a defiance of God taking
the life that he's giving into their own hands. And
(37:01):
if a person knew the pain that comes to others
who love them as a result of this, they would never,
never do it, let alone the offense that it is
to God. So I want to be very, very clear
in speaking about that. And I also want to be
able to say to the many folks who have a
loved one or a friend who has been lost in
(37:23):
this way, that, um, where there has been faith in
the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord knows who are his.
S1 (37:32):
I'm so grateful for your, uh, your, uh, honesty in
dealing with this, your boldness and dealing with this. We
have to go to a break, but I want to
add my, uh, words of encouragement to those of you
who are listening that may be considering suicide. Maybe you
feel overwhelmed. Maybe you are in the fog of life.
Maybe you're in the blizzard of doubt that is consuming
(37:53):
you and causing it to be hard for you to
see what is true and what is real. Please understand
these words that suicide is a permanent solution to a
temporary problem. No matter what you're going through right now,
you don't have to do something that is irreversible. You
can turn to Jesus Christ and find safety. You can
(38:14):
find healing. You can find new life in him. He
is the resurrection. He is the life, and he is
the one that can make all things new. Uh, please
don't choose suicide. Reach out to a friend, a loved one,
a pastor who has rooted and grounded in Christ. Give
us a call. Reach out to us today, but we
want you to experience life and that more abundantly, and
(38:37):
that life is found in Jesus Christ. I have to
take a short break. When we come back, I'm going
to ask Colin to help us understand what happens when
a person, a person, opens up themselves to the destructive
power of Satan. What happens to their soul and how
can that be redeemed? Uh, we're going to take a
short break. We'll be right back. Don't change that dial.
(38:59):
So much more to come. Next up on equipped with
Chris Brooks. Christianity speaks to every aspect of life, but
sometimes we struggle to connect God's unchanging truth to our
changing world. Apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture by Sean
(39:23):
McDowell equips you with the practical tools for meaningful conversation
about faith. With chapters from 26 leading Christian thinkers, including
our own Chris Brooks. It's our impact gift this month
to you when you support the Ministry of Equipped. Call
(888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org. When you listen to equip,
(39:48):
you know I love to introduce you to some incredible
guests and topics, but there's one person and I want
you to meet more than anyone else. His name is
Jesus and he wants to have a genuine personal relationship
with you. He even died on the cross to take
the punishment for all of our sins, so that we
can join his eternal family. It would be my honor
(40:10):
to introduce you to Jesus today. If you want to
know more, call 888. Need him. That's 888. Need him.
Welcome back to equipped with Chris Brooks. Colin Smith is
my guest. This is the most glorious week of the calendar.
This is the week we celebrate the most defining moment
(40:33):
in human history. All of time is defined by the death, burial,
and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It
is of infinite importance because he is of supreme value. This,
my friends, is why we can't ignore him. We must
bow our knee to him and find our help and
our salvation in him. Uh, Colin, I literally am looking
(40:55):
at a sheet full of questions and notes that I
took from reading your book, and I know that time
fails me so I won't get to all of them,
but I think I should ask at least two. One
has to do with the possibility for individuals to open
themselves up to the destructive power of Satan. That is
a real possibility. We see it in the life of Judas,
(41:16):
don't we?
S2 (41:17):
Yeah. That's right. I mean, three times in the Gospels
we're told that Satan entered into him. But that didn't happen,
as you know, some kind of a matter of random chance. Um,
Satan doesn't have entrance into the life of a person
unless and until that life is opened. And very clearly,
you see that there are steps that Judas takes to
(41:39):
open his life up to the ever increasing dark grip
that evidently takes hold of his soul. We mentioned earlier
his unconfessed sin he'd been stealing from the bag. So
there's a secret being kept. There's a double life that's
being pursued. And he presses that down and just stays
(42:00):
with it. It's never brought out into the open. It's
never confessed. Well, there's a sure way in which Satan
begins to build a stronghold in a person's life. The
refusal to confess. Then you have his decision to go
and make this deal secretly with the religious leaders to
betray Jesus. Then he comes back and he keeps that
secret at the Lord's table when even the Lord Jesus
(42:22):
is holding out the bread, which of course was an
offer of friendship and another reaching out of love towards him.
So there's a real pattern here, I think, and it
fits what we know from the New Testament. James tells
us that there's a process by which sin builds a
position in the life of a person. It grows and,
(42:44):
you know, sin when it is fully grown, James says,
gives birth to death. And so I think what we
see in Judas life is an increasing opening of himself
up to darkness that eventually has a grip over him.
So that's a warning to us. You know, the devil
is a roaring lion. He's out to see who he
(43:05):
can devour and where entrance is given. He's going to
take advantage of that. Therefore see that he does not
create a stronghold and gain a grip. Um, in in
your life is really the message that comes out of that.
S1 (43:21):
So much more we could say about that again because
of time. I would encourage you to get a copy
of this book. Colin, I guess I want to land
the plane here, and that is Judith seemed to have
this false contriteness, but it was never true repentance. How
do we know the difference?
S2 (43:39):
Yeah, well, the difference is a very clear one that, um,
that remorse, um, and being contrite, as he certainly was,
he certainly regretted what he had done. He was very
sorrowful and even, as we've said, ended his life. But
what happens with him is he simply looks backward. He
turns in on himself. He condemns himself. There's never a
(44:00):
future in that. Now, repentance is very, very different because
rather than looking backwards, repentance looks forward and it looks upward.
It looks to Jesus Christ. And that's the huge difference
between Judas and Peter, that whereas the one story ends
in absolute tragedy, simply with self-condemnation. I've blown it. Well,
(44:21):
that's the end for me. And there's no future there
in the story of Judas. Um, for Peter, in God's grace,
he comes to repentance. He's wonderfully restored and lives a
marvelous life of service that's offered to the Lord. So
I want to say from this story of Judas, you
can make a better choice than Judas did. When you're
(44:41):
aware of your own weakness and failure, don't simply turn
in on yourself in self-condemnation. Look away from yourself and
up to Jesus Christ, because there's grace in him and
grace for every person, and that has to include you.
And that's the difference between remorse and repentance. And it
leads to entirely different places.
S1 (45:01):
Colin, as we close, we have about a minute left.
Can you call people to faith in Christ?
S2 (45:07):
I would love to do that. You know, um, whatever
it may cost you to follow hard after the Lord
Jesus Christ, it is Supremely worth it. The Son of
God holds good in his hand for you now. And
good in his hand for you in the future. And
however much it may cost you, and however difficult it
(45:28):
may be for you to follow hard after him, you
will never lose by following hard after Jesus Christ. The
other way is all loss. So whatever discouragement you have
faced take from the story of Judas this lesson, it
is always worth following Jesus. He is of supreme value.
So make it your cause today to come back to
(45:50):
him and to find the grace and the help and
the strength that he has for you.
S1 (45:55):
Maybe you can identify with the life of Judas. Maybe
you are inches away from hell and you know it.
And you have even thought about suicide, or giving up
or turning in on yourself. You're so gripped by yesterday.
I would encourage you to turn from your sins. Confess
your need for Jesus Christ. Acknowledge his lordship and ask
(46:18):
for him to come and be Lord of all in
your life. Bow the knee of your heart, and if
you do, he will make all things new. New life
is found in Christ and in Christ alone. Please contact
us if today you have, uh, just come to a
place of repentance and faith in Christ. You call us
(46:39):
at (877)Â 548-3675 or reach out to us through social media. Uh,
inbox us and we will, I promise you, respond to you.
We appreciate you. Colin, for joining us. Thank you for
the great book. Heaven so near, so far. Have a
great Easter, Colin.
S4 (46:56):
Yeah. And you? Likewise. God bless you. Thank you.
S1 (46:59):
Thank you, folks, for listening in. I pray that you
were blessed. Until we're together again, remember, equipped with Chris
Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
Moody Global Ministries.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.