April 24, 2025 • 47 mins
How do we handle pain, grief, tragedy, and disappointment? Coming up on Equipped, Susie Larson and author Dan Allender explain how we can trust God through deep valleys to find purpose, hope, and healing. Can suffering point us to our calling? Is joy possible? Call in with your questions and comments about redeeming heartache.
Today's Resource: Redeeming Heartache: How Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:21):
Well. Hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of
equipped with Chris Brooks! I am so thrilled that you've
joined us today. Why don't you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always, with the lens of the
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He is giving it as a gift so that you
(00:43):
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice. I hope you're having a great day.
I'm going to be away from the program today, but
I want you to join me in welcoming Susie Larson
to the hot seat. Now, many of you know Susie.
(01:04):
She's a best selling author, a speaker, radio host. She
loves Jesus, and most of all loves helping people draw
into a deeper life in Christ. She's also a wife,
a mother, and a grandmother as well. Susie, thank you
for hosting this edition of equip.
S2 (01:23):
It's been such a great honor to join you every
day this week, and we continue to pray for Chris
and his family. Well, I've been on my knees for
today's show. I've been praying for you because I really
believe that God has something really precious for you today.
Think about this. Everyone, you included, have been through some
hard things. You've walked through some hardship, loss, heartbreak and
(01:44):
have you ever considered that what you've endured has actually
laid the groundwork for how God wants to move in
and through you in the days ahead? What that enemy
meant for evil. God is well able and wants to
use it for good in your life. Everybody has endured
trauma or heartbreak of some kind, but not everyone is
sorted through those experiences in a way that brought them
(02:04):
to a place of wholeness and healing. Doctor Dan Allender
joins me today to talk about his amazing book, Redeeming
Heartache How Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling. Listen to
what he writes. you could push the pain away. Or
you could dig deep and find a wellspring of joy.
Your past pain does not have to dictate your life.
In fact, your heart wounds have uniquely prepared you to
(02:24):
experience more joy. Now is the time to answer the
call to healing and discover your life's incredible purpose. Let
me tell you about my guest. We'll get him on
the show. Doctor Dan is a pioneer of unique and
innovative approach to trauma and abuse therapy. In 2011, he
established the Allender Center to foster healing and equip leaders
in mental health professionals with the courage to confront others
(02:46):
stories of harm. Dan has authored or co-authored many books,
including The One We're Talking About Today, Redeeming Heartache. He's
absolutely one of my favorites. Doctor Allender, welcome to equipped.
I don't hear his voice. His book is so amazing. And,
(03:08):
you know, I'm going to pitch for calls as we're
trying to get him on the line. And this is
my question for you. What in your story still needs
to heal? If you can look back over your shoulder
at the parts of your story that you're like, oh,
I wince when I think about it. Like I'm not
able to tell that story from a place of triumph
just yet. What part of that story still needs to heal?
(03:29):
Why don't you call me? 87756758775483675. And I would say
for me, if you've read any of my work or
heard any of my back story, I've got some childhood
trauma at the hands of teenage boys that I've worked
through significantly, but it set the stage for when I
(03:49):
contracted Lyme disease during our pregnancy, our third pregnancy young
in marriage. It reignited the trauma that the enemy can
get to me anytime, anywhere. Now, 35 years later, I'm
dealing with daily symptoms and there are times when I'm
an overcomer. Other times it wounds me. I'm so tired
of it. And it's just something that kind of comes
(04:09):
up for me time and time again. That's a part
of my story that's not only ongoing, but it's part
of my story that needs to heal. It sounds like
we've got Dan back on the phone. Doctor Allender, thank you. Welcome. Yay!
S3 (04:21):
Sorry. I don't know what's going on with my technology,
but it's a delight to be with you.
S2 (04:27):
Such an honor to have you. And you know, one
thing I've been doing. I mentioned to our listeners the
other day that this year I've been buying these what
I call identity bracelets. Right. They're just gold bands where
I imprint something on them that speak to people in
my life that I love, that just to me, that
show their God given kind of calling and something I
see in them. Like my sister, I gave her heart
healer and another friend, wise advocate. And if I were
(04:50):
to buy you an identity bracelet, I would imprint Gentle Healer.
I feel like that is that is such a big
part of who God made you to be, and it's
your gift to the Kingdom. So thank you for being
who you are.
S3 (05:03):
Well, again, honored to be with you and doggone technology
again on that interplay of I'm so glad to be
with you, but somehow we'll get the other technology working
at some point.
S2 (05:16):
No problem. It's good to have you. Well, you've worked
on inner healing for many years. Everyone has trauma of
some kind. Not everyone faces or deals with it or
even understands how past pain impacts present moment. So would
you speak to that?
S3 (05:30):
Well, I think we know without question that suffering is inevitable,
but it also is unpredictable. We don't know when that
phone call will come where we hear news that just
breaks our heart. But we do know that there is
something about the goodness of God and the land of
the living. That phrase from Psalm 27, I would have
(05:52):
despaired if I did not believe that I would see
the goodness of God in the land of the living.
Calls us to be able to face the reality that
death is inevitable. But on the other hand, the resurrection
is our gift. So we live between what's often called
the already. Not yet. We already know the good truth,
(06:16):
yet we live with questions that we've got to have
the courage to actually engage. And that's what suffering does.
It compels us to ask hard questions and come to
a point where we can truly say, not my will,
but your will be done.
S2 (06:33):
And wouldn't you also say when you get to the
other side and you have done some of the hard
work of healing? It's I mean, I look at some
of the things I've endured and overcome. I wouldn't want
to go through them again. But I can attribute wisdom,
hard fought wisdom, the knowledge of God's Word being wiser
to the enemy's schemes. I mean, I have my footsteps
are a little bit surer, if not a lot bit
because of some of the things I've endured. So they
(06:54):
weren't wasted on me, right?
S4 (06:56):
Oh. Oh.
S3 (06:57):
Well, you're just reflecting. Psalm 90, verse 12, count your days,
which I think includes count your suffering, count the heartache,
count the hard moments so that you may grow in wisdom,
and that is an ultimate goal. I mean, we have
no promise that we'll be alive tomorrow, but we do
(07:18):
have the promise that we can grow in our own
God given gifts, but also the wisdom of how to
use them for his purposes.
S2 (07:28):
I've been saying this for years that we, as God's people,
must look at our stories. We must pursue healing in
our stories for two reasons. One, because God loves us
and wants it for us, and two, because there's this
world that desperately needs healing. We can't impart what we
do not possess. And I would even add a third
point if there are unresolved parts of your story in
your backstory, those are, to me, open loops where the
(07:50):
enemy can sneak in and get you to accuse God
of things that the devil is guilty of. Or you think,
was he good? Was he there for me? Like, if
you don't go spend some time and sort that through
with God, there are some doubts that linger kind of unchallenged.
What are your thoughts?
S4 (08:06):
Oh, it's brilliantly put.
S3 (08:08):
Look, the Bible is 70% story, so we know God
loves story. We just went through the gorgeous period of
Heartache Friday, Heartbreak Saturday and Resurrection Sunday. So we know
that we are meant to enter into our own Gethsemane
and our own Golgotha. Why? Because it's the context of
(08:31):
that suffering that opens the door to the wonder of
the miracle of how God rescues. If we have the
courage to face our story, then we also have the
courage to take in the story of God, which is
always a story of God's resurrection.
S2 (08:49):
So what part of your backstory? I know there's many
aspects to your backstory, but that you attribute to what
allows you to do your deepest work of healing in
the present for others?
S4 (08:59):
Well.
S3 (09:00):
One element was I was required by my mom, who
was mentally ill, to be the storyteller to keep her
as sane as she could somehow live. And in many ways,
that heartache of always having to have words, always having
to have a story, always having to keep my mother
from doing something even more destructive than she was apt
(09:22):
to do, I think has been part of the context
of God bringing me into a world where I can
use my voice, my language, my words, my stories to
invite people to the story of God. So right there,
it was a burden and heartache. And at one level,
I hated it. Yet what we often see to be
(09:45):
some of our deepest wounds, God intends, as you already
put it, brilliantly, to turn the tables on the kingdom
of evil and ultimately say what we thought would destroy us,
not only has the potential to create goodness for ourselves,
but even more importantly, to create goodness for others.
S2 (10:06):
And what was the the best catalyst for your healing? Again,
I'm sure it's multifaceted. I know healing is not linear
from point A to point B, but what would you
point to as the most healing balm to your soul
as you sorted through? Because you have to heal from
that before you can actually, you know, steward it in
a way that blesses others.
S4 (10:24):
Well, we're.
S3 (10:25):
Talking about a complex world here to simply say, I
began to speak and people began to, in some sense
taste something of the goodness of God. And it surprised me,
even though in many ways I didn't change my mother's heart.
But I did keep her alive. And that work of
(10:46):
seeing that my voice could actually be used of God.
One of the great gifts was seeing, uh, around the
period in which I came to Christ, the balaam's ass.
I heard that sermon, and I remember thinking, goodness, if
God can use a donkey, I guess I'm in pretty
good stead to be able to be used by God.
(11:09):
So even that simple reality of a sermon that just
struck me as this is crazy. Yet there was the
invitation of, well, if you want to be used of God,
you don't need to worry. He always has purposes for
our suffering. He's not the cause of our suffering, but
he uses the harm of evil to, in many ways,
(11:33):
strike down the power of evil through the revelation of
something good, even in the midst of our heartache.
S2 (11:41):
We have to break here in just a moment. But
I'm wondering when you stood on the ash heap of
your childhood was not. You weren't cared for, you weren't covered.
You were doing the caring and the covering when you
stood on that ash heap, could you ever have imagined
in a million years that you'd be doing what you're
doing now?
S4 (11:57):
No, not.
S3 (11:58):
I mean, take a million and cube it. No, I
my good friends, would have said I would likely not
live beyond the age of 21, but the reality of
being able to look at how God weaves the horror
of what evil brought into a beauty that we could
never comprehend. It's meant to take our breath away and
(12:20):
to take others into that invitation of how do we
stand on the neck of evil and be able to say, indeed,
you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good?
S2 (12:32):
Am I the only one who wants to stand up
and shout right now? Somebody else has got to stand
up and shout. I'm talking to Doctor Dan Allen today.
His book is Redeeming Heartache How Past Suffering Reveals Our
True Calling. We've got a few copies to give away today.
If you've got a question, I got an amen from
the producer. That'll do for right now. If you got
a question, or if you dare to share with me
what part of your story still needs healing, give us
(12:54):
a call at 8775675. That's 675. More great conversation up
ahead with Doctor Dan Allender. Don't go away. We'll be
back in a minute.
S1 (13:37):
We live in a culture whose needs and obstacles to
faith are constantly shifting. Sean McDowell's book apologetics for an
Ever Changing Culture, addresses many current issues and will help
you share and defend the gospel with relevant answers. It's
our thank you gift for supporting equipped this month. We'll
send you a copy with your gift of any amount
(13:59):
to equip. equipped. Just call (888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org.
That's (888)Â 644-4144 or online at equipped radio.org.
S2 (14:24):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. Susie Larson here filling in
for Chris today. We're talking about how your past suffering
reveals your true God given calling that what the enemy
meant for evil. God can and will turn for good,
and he'll work through you in ways that bring healing
to those who desperately need it. Doctor Dan Allender is
my guest, and we're drawing from his book, which we
(14:44):
have copies to give away today. Redeeming Heartache How Past
Suffering reveals our true calling. I'd love to hear if
you've got a testimony of how maybe you've had some
past suffering and now God's turned it and you're working
in that calling. There's something that you're doing now that
you couldn't have done had you not walked through the
hardship or the heartbreak that you did in your past.
Why don't you call us and tell us about it?
(15:05):
Because your testimony, your your, um, story will beget faith
and testimony in someone else. Someone will be listening, going.
If they can do it, God can do it for them.
He can do it for me. Why don't you give
us a call 877675. It's (877)Â 548-3675. And one of the
most amazing things about your book that literally left me
jaw dropped was when you talked about how core trauma
(15:28):
lands in one of three outcast archetypes. And we're going
to walk through these one by one friends. So hang
with me. Core trauma lands in one of these outcast archetypes. Widow. Orphan. Stranger.
Before we dig in and do a deep dive on
these three, give me a kind of a 30,000 foot
view of of how you got here.
S4 (15:46):
Well.
S3 (15:47):
Reading the Old Testament, it was so important to know
God knows our trauma and has named it. And one
of the things we'll say a dozen times is that
if we don't name what's true, we cannot change into
the direction that God has for truth for us. And
those categories of orphans, stranger and widow, are the core
(16:11):
realities that everyone knows some dimension about. So it's where
we begin to engage God in the midst of our suffering,
where redemption can turn us to become more like Jesus.
S2 (16:25):
All right, so let's talk orphan. The orphan is left
to figure things out on their own. I love this
because it's just so descriptive. They seek safety through control.
They attempt to create protective barriers that say, I know
who I am, I know what I need to do.
So talk about that. Orphans, hypervigilance. And if there are
any other defining characteristics for the orphan, like how their
trauma lands them in that type.
S3 (16:49):
Well, the first thing keyword is that you're alone. You
don't have, in one sense family that connects with you,
that protects you, that provides resources, and therefore you have
to be the one responsible to get what you need.
No one else will do. So you've got to provide
(17:09):
for yourself. Which leads us in many ways to hoarding.
I mean, more symbolically than literally, but both where we
have to get what we need, and yet then we
have to hold on to it because we're fairly assured
we'll never get it again.
S2 (17:27):
So what are some kinds of things someone might have
gone through in their backstory that would land them in
this archetype?
S4 (17:33):
Well, a lack of presence.
S3 (17:35):
A lack of somebody seeing you. A kind of failure
of delight and honor. That's what parents are meant to provide,
is a deep sense.
S4 (17:46):
Of.
S3 (17:46):
I delight in you no matter what you do, and
I honor you even if you fail. That gift of
delight and honor we call in our field attachment, the
ability to be present with another. That face to face
engagement where you see, I delight and honor you. When
you are absent of that, you will feel to some
(18:10):
degree alone and lonely. And that's the that's the core
of being an orphan.
S2 (18:16):
And friends, in a moment we're going to talk about
how three of these turn into something beautiful when you heal.
So we'll talk about the healing process of all three
in just a moment. The second one is The Stranger,
and you say the core wound of a stranger is powerlessness.
How does a stranger get into that archetype? Like what
happens for them that they feel like they're outside the
(18:36):
circle of power and favor?
S3 (18:39):
Well, I don't know what third grade recess was like
for you, but it wasn't a lot of joy for me.
I was sort of a weird kid who had sort
of kinky curly hair and a world of blonds, and
I felt simply excluded. And that sense of being without protection,
without honor, without in one sense, respect. I think that's
(19:02):
the experience of most strangers. Like I've done everything I
know to kind of get into the next crowd, but
I don't do it well enough or adequately enough to
be in the in crowd. So when you feel excluded,
when you feel like you don't fit, that's what a
stranger feels.
S2 (19:24):
It's so interesting because the orphan goes towards hypervigilance and control,
where the stranger you say, often goes towards addiction, defiance
or cynicism. Unpack that a bit.
S3 (19:35):
Oh, let's just say strangers who know they are excluded
eventually want to burn the club down. They are often
the angry, dissatisfied, cynical people. Whereas you find an orphan
often wanting to please others, yet never believing that they
will ever really be loved well. So you've got that
(19:56):
interplay of the orphan looking to fit and often fitting,
because they are willing to do whatever required to be
part of a family. Yet the stranger is saying, forget it,
I don't want you. I will make you pay for
having excluded me.
S2 (20:14):
Wow. They're probably known for saying, I don't care what
people think about me. They care a whole lot, but
they're locked elbows, you know, keep you at a distance, right?
S5 (20:22):
Brilliant.
S3 (20:23):
Yes, absolutely. We hide what we fear we can't actually face.
So we often portray a person that we're not. And
we know we're sort of being untrue to ourselves. But
it's the only way. It seems like we can survive
the kind of heartache that we have known.
S2 (20:43):
Wow. Talking to Dan Allender about these three core trauma
archetypes widow, orphans, strangers, strangers. The third hour widow, I'm sorry,
is the third one. And you call it a grief
that imprisons. What are some defining factors of a widow?
Because it may be a literal widow, but it might
be someone who's just known. Incredible loss.
S3 (21:01):
Well, let's start with the literal widow they knew love,
and now it's gone. And even though they know their
spouse didn't abandon them, it feels like abandonment. It feels
like you have left me. And in that I don't
know if I'll ever be loved ever again. It's such
a hard, hard thing to say, but there are a
(21:23):
lot of people who are married who feel like widows
because their spouse just doesn't bring kindness and care and
honor into the relationship. Or you can be single and
feel like a widow because you've never known what your
heart desires. And that is to be a beloved and
have a beloved. So the reality of being a widow,
(21:47):
that's not literal, but it's that felt sense, that love
abandoned me. I'd been betrayed. I have lost what I enjoyed.
And now I feel like a fool for having loved
at all.
S2 (22:00):
You know, in my show we. I've heard from a
number of listeners who've been both literally widowed and then
had adult children walk away and cut them off. And
they would say, every time I've asked the question, they
would say, you know, losing someone who loved me was hard.
But I have fond memories because they loved me to
the end. Losing someone who should love me, who is
(22:21):
living and who walked away much harder. Have you found
that to be true as well?
S3 (22:26):
Oh so well said. Yes. I mean, when we get
betrayed again, when a spouse dies, it we. It's not
because they betrayed us, but it feels like a level
of betrayal that now I'm pumping gas. And they used
to do it. They used to handle the electric bill.
The reality of the mundane things that don't seem like
(22:48):
that big of a deal for a widow. They just
echo that emptiness that I will never know what I
once knew or what I thought I would know. And
now how do I live? How do I live? Well,
in the context of a world that just feels like
it's coupled with everyone else having someone. And I am alone.
S2 (23:11):
And yet they can heal, can't they?
S3 (23:14):
Oh, again, we wouldn't be having this conversation if we
believed that death wins. That's why, as we begin with
the resurrection, we're beginning with the reality that we can
face the horror and heartache of trauma because we ultimately
know there is a redeemer, one who will rescue and frankly,
(23:35):
one who can change even now, the direction of our heartache.
S2 (23:40):
We've just got a couple of minutes before our break,
but this was a wow statement from your book. You
write while an orphan is at war with care and rest,
and a stranger is at war with hope. The widow
is at war with love. Sage's first. Well, maybe break
it down a little more on the other side of
the break. But while an orphan is at war with
care and rest. So what the orphan needs, then you're
saying is care and rest, right?
S5 (24:02):
Yes, absolutely.
S3 (24:04):
Or what faith provides, which is that solid foundation to
know who I am and how I fit into the world.
S2 (24:13):
Wow. And so the strangers at war with hope. So
they're locked down in defiance, going, I don't care, I
don't need you. I'm putting a period at the end
of this sentence. There's no hope in their heart. Is
that right?
S5 (24:26):
Oh, absolutely.
S3 (24:27):
Which is why the idea of dreaming. Of dreaming of
what redemption could bring to me and others. That feels
too terrifying in many ways. The stranger is the tough
girl or boy. But on the other hand, there is
this tender fear that if I hope I will be
disappointed again, RN. Can I endure it? And that's why
(24:50):
I cut off desire as a stranger.
S2 (24:54):
And finally, the widows at war with love. You got
about 30s. Say a word about that.
S3 (24:59):
Well, that's that delight of having somebody mutually involved with
me in which I get to play something of the
face of God for you as you do for me.
And in that loneliness, oftentimes what happens is we cut
off the potential to love and be loved.
S2 (25:19):
On the other side of the break. We're going to
talk about how an orphan heals, a stranger heals, a
widow heals. And I would imagine our best healing happens
in the context of a safe and loving community. You're
a little quiet today. I'd love to hear from you.
Either tell me what part of your story still needs healing,
or maybe a part of your story that you've overcome.
And you can say what the enemy meant for evil.
(25:39):
God has turned for good. I've got copies of Doctor
Dan Allender's book Redeeming Heartache to Give Away. Give us
a call at eight, seven, (877)Â 548-3675. We'd love to hear
from you! You can find resources information on all of
our guests at Equipped radio.org, equipped radio.org, or follow us
on Facebook and Twitter at Equipped radio. We'll be back
(26:01):
in just a moment. This is equipped with Chris Brooks
(26:29):
coming to you from the studios of Moody Radio, of
Susie Larson here, filling in for Chris today. Talking to
my friend, Doctor Dan Allender, he is a hero of
the faith. To me, his book is Redeeming Heartache How
Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling. We'd love to hear
from you. We've been talking about the three archetypes of
trauma the orphan, the widow, the stranger. The orphan has
(26:49):
been left to figure things out on their own. The strangers,
the on the outside of the circle. The widows. The
one who feels like they've lost love. Do you feel
that you land in one of those archetypes? Give us
a call 8775675. And also, if you've been blessed by
this program, we'd sure love to have you partner with us.
If you appreciate the kinds of guests we have on
the show, the kinds of content you get to hear
(27:10):
day in, day out. Would you consider joining us and
being part of the team? Maybe as a monthly equipper,
you can join an elite team that supports, equipped with
their gifts and prayers and receive from Chris a bi
weekly video from Chris, a signed copy of his book,
Urban Apologetics, and even exclusive access to resources that are
just for you. Become an Equipper by calling (888)Â 644-4144 or
(27:34):
find us online at Radio.com. And I want to shout
out to our newest equipper, Nicole in Chicago. Welcome to
our team of Equippers. So how about you? Will you
join us next? 888644 4144. Talking to trauma expert and
friend Doctor Dan Allender about how your past suffering and
loss and disappointments can reveal your true calling. In a moment, doc,
(27:56):
I want to talk to you about how we move
out of healing from healing, out of orphan, out of stranger,
out of widow. Your insight is so powerful. But I
also want to take some calls because suddenly the call
screen has lit up. And so, Irene. Thank you. You're
on the air with Doctor Dan Allen. What's your question today?
S6 (28:13):
Hello, doctor Allen. Um, I was wondering if you could
let me know if your book might be of assistance to. Me?
S2 (28:27):
That's okay.
S7 (28:28):
I can barely hear.
S3 (28:30):
Can you translate for me? I'm so sorry.
S2 (28:33):
I think she's crying. Um, so she wants some help.
Go ahead, honey. Go ahead.
S8 (28:41):
Um. Here.
S2 (28:45):
You have some trauma in your past, right? And you're
having a hard time going through the healing process. Is
that right?
S8 (28:51):
Yes.
S3 (28:53):
Well, I mean, the fact that you called first and foremost,
I just want to say what a brave thing to do.
I think one of the things that for many people,
in the midst of very significant suffering, the last thing
that they tend to do is to actually reach out,
to actually make a call and invite someone to engage.
(29:14):
I know that's not much comfort, but I also want
you to hear the fact you called is in and
of itself, the beginning of the work of inviting us
and inviting others to pray for you, to honor you,
and to be able to say that the beginning of
all change is the cry for help. You have that
(29:36):
simple sentence of the man who says, I believe, help
my unbelief. And every time we ask for help, there
is a gift that the spirit brings to our heart.
Honoring our vulnerability. So that alone, I just want to
say thank you.
S2 (29:53):
Irene, I want to make sure you get a copy
of Dan's book. It is healing therapy, a healing balm
for your soul. So don't hang up. Make sure you
give our producers your information. But I also want to
pray for you before we go to the next call. I, too,
have had some childhood trauma that I thought was going
to take me out. But what I keep going back
to is the passage. I think it's Psalm 16. You
will show me the path of life. There is a
(30:14):
path of life that God has for you, and you
don't have to take it all at once. You just
got to take the next step. And so, father, thank
you for Irene. I echo her bravery. I honor her bravery,
and I thank you, God that the devil will not
have the last say in her life, that you are
writing a beautiful story, and you will take what that
enemy meant for evil, and you will turn it for good. So, Lord,
bring her to a godly therapist. Bring her some safe
(30:37):
people to be in community with her so she can
be messy and walk this out and give her a
vision for what a healed Irene might look like. Thank
you God that you're committed to her wholeness. In Jesus
name we pray. Amen.
S5 (30:51):
Amen.
S2 (30:52):
Bless you, dear one again. Hang on and make sure
you give them your address. Will get you a copy
of of Doctor Dan's book. Alisa is calling in and
she's been very blessed by the conversation and has a
question for you, doc. Thanks. You're on the air with
Doctor Dan Allender.
S9 (31:07):
Hello. Um, I want to thank you for bringing up
this subject, and it has been a true blessing. And
it's right along with my prayer time and my reading
and studying, because it has shown me just how far
the Lord has brought me and the goodness of the Lord.
And he's he's talked to me about dreaming again. He's
(31:29):
talked to me about his care and his rest of me.
Rest for me. And he has just done phenomenal things.
Things that have been beyond my wildest dreams I did have.
I've had seasons all my life where what the enemy
meant for evil. God has turned for good. And I
believe that, um, you can't go wrong there when you
(31:52):
trust God that way. And that's what I'm determined to do.
I have times where I want to be be in control,
and when I'm not, I go back to him and
I was like, okay, so what is your plan? Your plan.
S2 (32:03):
Is.
S9 (32:03):
Best. And I guess what I'm walking through now is
I just want to have that where I really have
someone that delights in me. There's mutual love, respect, and
someone will walk this life with me. Not for what
I can do for them, not for what I can
give them. Not for they for who they perceive I am.
(32:26):
To like to be God's representative on earth where I'm seen, known,
and loved.
S2 (32:32):
Amen. Well, doc, um, right away my thoughts are. I'm
praying God brings you that person with skin on. But
she also I just I know Jesus uses that for her.
What what do you want to say to Alisa?
S3 (32:43):
Well, I just love the fact that you put words
to the fact that you have moments where you want
to be in control. That's true of every human being
on the earth. And in that, the ability to name it.
We're right now in the word confession. There's a Greek word.
It's called homologeo, and it means to confess, but it
(33:05):
means to say the same thing as. So when we
name to God, I'm trying to be you. God. I'm
trying to be in control the way you are. We
have made a confession that allows our hearts to, at
one level, rest. And I hope as well, because I
hear in your voice, Alicia, is a level of laughter.
(33:27):
There is goodness. You have known. And that's where our
ability to be able to say we are meant to
weep with those who weep, including ourselves. That part of
us that we still to this day, but also to
rejoice with those who rejoice, which means even you at
the moment of not having that partner can bring the
(33:48):
kind of humor, playfulness, honor and truth that would be
the kind of person I'm telling you any good man
would want to be.
S2 (33:57):
Come on. Amen. I give that a hearty amen. Alisa.
You are. Uh, boy, you're a treasure. I can just
tell by the things you said. And we'd love to
get you a copy of Doctor Dan's book as well.
So please hang on and give him your address, and
we'll get it out to you. And I think God
will just be setting you up for your next place
of promise. As you continue to steward your healing process
and trust him to work in and through you. So
(34:19):
let's talk. Okay, so we talked about these three archetypes of,
of um, trauma orphan, stranger, widow. And we've got we
can cover one of these before our next break. Healing
looks like this. So orphan is you've been left to
attend on your own. You maybe become hyper vigilant in control,
But you've been outside. You know the care. You've not
(34:39):
received care and covering. So you say the healed orphan
becomes a priest. Say more about that.
S10 (34:46):
Well, a priest.
S3 (34:47):
We know the literature of a priest are the Psalms,
the Psalms, the poetry. But we often fail to understand
that part of the poetry of God, the praise of God, the, the,
the Psalms, are taking God on questioning God directly. Now,
do we think of that as worship? Sadly, we often don't.
(35:09):
But it is when you say to God, you sold
me down the river and didn't make a penny of
my sale. Psalm 44. When we begin to understand that
as an orphan, we are actually called before God to
be able to express all the heartache, all the anger,
all the confusion, and he's with us. His face does
(35:33):
not move from us. You don't see a frown on
his face. You see honor and delight. Even when we
take him on, that means we are sons and daughters
who bear the delight and goodness of God.
S2 (35:49):
So, friend, do you hear that when you are, when
you see yourself as the orphan, that's where your trauma
lands you and you start to heal and realize you
have inner throne room access to Almighty God. And when
you come boldly, confidently into his presence, he's glad to
see you. I want you to imagine that. And when
his his heart starts to heal you, you understand the
access you have. You understand the relationship you have, that
(36:11):
you have a father who enjoys you, who sings over you.
Suddenly you move from victim to victor, from orphan to priest.
A priest who advocates for other orphans. Right? I mean,
that's what happens is eventually, as you start to get healed,
you spot orphans and you advocate for them. And that
is beautiful. We're going to pause here and take a break.
But when we come back, we're going to talk about
(36:32):
the stranger. You know what the healed stranger looks like.
They turn into a profit. They've been outside the circle
for so long, they actually had the benefit of a
profound perspective that insiders just don't get because they're in
the echo chamber. But as you get healed, you get
to step back into that circle with a prophetic perspective.
That's from Doctor Dan Allender's brilliant book, Redeeming Heartache How
(36:54):
Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling. We've got a few
calls coming in as well. What great conversation! Don't leave us.
We'll be back in just a moment.
S1 (37:32):
Sharing your faith can be challenging. How do you confidently
engage with questions about truth, technology, and culture while staying
grounded in Scripture? That's why Chris Brooks has chosen apologetics
for an ever changing culture as our gift. When you
support equip this month, it will help you provide thoughtful,
informed answers to the pressing questions of our time. Request
(37:56):
your copy today with a gift of any amount. Call
(888)Â 644-4144 or visit Equip radio.org.
S2 (38:10):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson filling in
for Chris today. We're talking about how your past suffering
reveals your true God given calling. What the enemy meant
for evil. God can turn for good. Today I'm talking
with trauma expert and gentle man of God, Doctor Dan Allender.
We've got a few copies of his amazing book, Redeeming
Heartache How Past Suffering Reveals Our True calling. And we've
(38:32):
been talking about these three archetypes, these trauma archetypes that
he talks about in his book that we land in
based on what we've walked through and where we come from. Orphan,
where you are left to figure things out on your
own and you become maybe hyper vigilant in control. The
stranger where you're left outside the circle, and the widow
where you've left, been left unloved. And we've got a
few calls on the line. But I want you to
(38:53):
say a quick word about the healed stranger turns into
a prophet. Say a word about that, if you would.
S3 (38:59):
Well, when the stranger begins to realize that his anger,
her anger actually honors God because God hates injustice. So
when we begin to understand that our anger can actually
invite people to see what's wrong and therefore to create
what is beautiful and good, the prophet actually is inviting
(39:23):
people to a restored world. And that dream, that desire,
is meant to elevate the heart of one who has
known what it is to be outside, to actually now
be inside. So the true prophet isn't angry. They're disruptive
in a way that brings goodness into the land of
(39:45):
the living.
S2 (39:46):
Okay, friends, so think about that. The orphan becomes a priest,
and maybe not in the priest that you think of
a priest who's an advocate, someone who goes to the
throne room because they have access and they advocate for
other orphans. The stranger is no longer angry, like they
don't care. Suddenly they start to care. They step inside
the circle because they get to be there. But they
bring a unique perspective as an outsider perspective, a perspective
(40:08):
that we all need. Before we get to the widow,
I want to get to Selena because she says she
feels like she lands in all three archetypes. And I've
heard you say before, that's not unusual. Selena. Selena, thanks
for joining us. You're on the air with Doctor Dan.
S11 (40:21):
Hi. Good afternoon.
S2 (40:23):
What's your question for doc?
S11 (40:27):
So it's not uncommon to I feel like you belong
to all three groups.
S10 (40:32):
Oh.
S3 (40:33):
Amen. Brilliant question. Because the reality is, we all know
what it is to be alone, what it means to
be left out, and in some ways, what it means
to be, in one sense, without love. So the fact is,
we may have one that's truer, feels truer. But the
(40:54):
fact is we all fit to some degree, all three,
just like we're all meant to be prophet, priests and
kings and queens, because that's what reflects Jesus. He's the
perfect priest, the perfect prophet, the perfect king. So as
our trauma makes us all more alike than not, so
(41:17):
is our calling to be the one who reveals something
about our prophet, priest, and King Jesus?
S2 (41:25):
Celina, does that help you? Because think about how the
healing that God's going to, the healing he's going to
lead you into will really establish you in those three areas.
And would you say more often than not, we're probably
bent towards a strength in one over the other two?
S10 (41:39):
Oh, absolutely.
S3 (41:40):
In other words, we probably have more suffering in one
than the others. But therefore, what's often the weakest part
of us, the most harmed. Actually, God loves to make
one of the strongest parts of what we offer the world.
S2 (41:55):
Wow. Selena, thanks for that call because that's a super
important point. God bless you and love to get you
a copy of the book if you want to hang
on and get your address. We just have a couple
minutes left. And so I think with this next call.
Mary's calling in and she is a widow. Let's use
her call. And just the opportunity to talk about the
healed widow becomes a king or a queen. Mary. First love.
(42:16):
We just have a couple minutes. So if you could
get your question, and then we'll get an answer in
and we'll pray for you.
S12 (42:22):
Hi. I, um, married for 30 years. To the love
of my life. He passed away from cancer eight years ago.
Our only child moved home from college and did fall apart.
We pulled it back together. I waited five years to date.
I dated this very charming, romantic man who, on the
(42:47):
day that I had to put my son in rehab,
devastated me and broke up with me. So I feel
like I'm like, kind of all three of these. I
just praise the Lord that I got to hear this
program and that, um, I'm just kind of reeling from. Okay,
(43:07):
I've accepted my husband's passing. I have I know where
he's at. I know he's with the Lord. But this
man that devastated me, you know, he's still here walking
the earth. And of course, my son is furious with
me that I put him in rehab for a serious
drug addiction that I missed while I was dating this charmer.
S2 (43:30):
Bless your heart. We just got a little bit of time. Dan,
what would you like to say to Mary?
S3 (43:34):
Well, Mary, your experience of loss with your husband is
in many ways, it's a common reality that in that loss,
there's so much grief that it blinds us to something of.
In one sense, as you put it, the charmer that
in some sense, like the snake, worked to seduce and
draw you in and yet broke your heart. But you
(43:58):
have known so much suffering. I know this is going
to be too quick, but the suffering gives you such
leadership capacity because it is the brokenhearted who are the
best revealers of how power is meant to be used
for others.
S2 (44:16):
You know, we've got I want to give you another minute.
And as you're talking, Dan, I honestly can get a
picture of Mary of you like leading groups. I see
you being, you know, helping wisely, helping parents who've got
wandering kids and helping single women who've been widowed or divorced.
Helping them find their footing again. I mean, that is
utterly within the realm of possibility, isn't it? Doctor Dan?
S10 (44:38):
Oh, it is, because.
S3 (44:40):
When you've had loss like that, including your son in
rehab and then the charmer. So much shame, so much
shame in the midst of what you have endured. And yet,
when shame gets to a point where you begin to go,
Jesus took all the shame on the cross that evil
wants me to ingest. It's where you begin to go.
(45:03):
I have the power to lead because I'm no longer
bound to death, nor fear, nor shame.
S2 (45:11):
Mary. I don't know if you heard yesterday's show, but
it was about shame off you. And if you get
the chance, go back and listen, because no shame belongs
on you. I want to pray for you as we
get ready to wrap the show today. I just know
it was a divine appointment. I literally got on my
knees before the show and said, Lord, bring the right
people in and activate the healing process and I pray
you hear the tenderness and compassion in Dan's voice that
(45:34):
that's that's Jesus heart for you. There's no shame on you.
There's now a path forward for healing and wisdom and
authority where you can not only heal, but you can
help others heal. So, God, I thank you for this
beautiful woman, this brave woman, this woman that you love
and are going to lead in the path of life,
heal her son, redeem their relationship. And I pray God
(45:55):
that her latter years would be far more blessed than
her former years. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. I
can't thank you enough for this time today, doc. I
just what you do, you do so well and with
such a tender, Christ like heart. Thank you for giving
us your time.
S3 (46:11):
Oh, Susie, you know, I would start a lemonade stand
with you, so thank you.
S2 (46:16):
You said that before, and I might just hold you
to that someday.
S8 (46:21):
Well.
S10 (46:21):
It would be a ball.
S2 (46:23):
Yeah. Thank you so much, my friend. You know, years ago,
I had a pastor author on my show, Jeff Manion,
and he said, we've tried to become experts at not
getting hurt. We need to become experts at learning to heal.
You know, we're going to hurt. But can we become
experts at learning to heal? I pray you found some
encouragement here today. If you need more information on any
of our guests, you can visit us online at equipped radio.org.
(46:46):
That's equipped radio.org. I'm Susie Larson and from all of
us at equipped. We're just so glad you listened today.
I pray you find yourself on the healing path, because
that's what Jesus is about is full restoration of who
you are. Thanks for listening today. Equipped is a production
of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. We'll
meet you back here next time.
Well. Hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of
equipped with Chris Brooks! I am so thrilled that you've
joined us today. Why don't you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always, with the lens of the
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He is giving it as a gift so that you
(00:43):
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice. I hope you're having a great day.
I'm going to be away from the program today, but
I want you to join me in welcoming Susie Larson
to the hot seat. Now, many of you know Susie.
(01:04):
She's a best selling author, a speaker, radio host. She
loves Jesus, and most of all loves helping people draw
into a deeper life in Christ. She's also a wife,
a mother, and a grandmother as well. Susie, thank you
for hosting this edition of equip.
S2 (01:23):
It's been such a great honor to join you every
day this week, and we continue to pray for Chris
and his family. Well, I've been on my knees for
today's show. I've been praying for you because I really
believe that God has something really precious for you today.
Think about this. Everyone, you included, have been through some
hard things. You've walked through some hardship, loss, heartbreak and
(01:44):
have you ever considered that what you've endured has actually
laid the groundwork for how God wants to move in
and through you in the days ahead? What that enemy
meant for evil. God is well able and wants to
use it for good in your life. Everybody has endured
trauma or heartbreak of some kind, but not everyone is
sorted through those experiences in a way that brought them
(02:04):
to a place of wholeness and healing. Doctor Dan Allender
joins me today to talk about his amazing book, Redeeming
Heartache How Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling. Listen to
what he writes. you could push the pain away. Or
you could dig deep and find a wellspring of joy.
Your past pain does not have to dictate your life.
In fact, your heart wounds have uniquely prepared you to
(02:24):
experience more joy. Now is the time to answer the
call to healing and discover your life's incredible purpose. Let
me tell you about my guest. We'll get him on
the show. Doctor Dan is a pioneer of unique and
innovative approach to trauma and abuse therapy. In 2011, he
established the Allender Center to foster healing and equip leaders
in mental health professionals with the courage to confront others
(02:46):
stories of harm. Dan has authored or co-authored many books,
including The One We're Talking About Today, Redeeming Heartache. He's
absolutely one of my favorites. Doctor Allender, welcome to equipped.
I don't hear his voice. His book is so amazing. And,
(03:08):
you know, I'm going to pitch for calls as we're
trying to get him on the line. And this is
my question for you. What in your story still needs
to heal? If you can look back over your shoulder
at the parts of your story that you're like, oh,
I wince when I think about it. Like I'm not
able to tell that story from a place of triumph
just yet. What part of that story still needs to heal?
(03:29):
Why don't you call me? 87756758775483675. And I would say
for me, if you've read any of my work or
heard any of my back story, I've got some childhood
trauma at the hands of teenage boys that I've worked
through significantly, but it set the stage for when I
(03:49):
contracted Lyme disease during our pregnancy, our third pregnancy young
in marriage. It reignited the trauma that the enemy can
get to me anytime, anywhere. Now, 35 years later, I'm
dealing with daily symptoms and there are times when I'm
an overcomer. Other times it wounds me. I'm so tired
of it. And it's just something that kind of comes
(04:09):
up for me time and time again. That's a part
of my story that's not only ongoing, but it's part
of my story that needs to heal. It sounds like
we've got Dan back on the phone. Doctor Allender, thank you. Welcome. Yay!
S3 (04:21):
Sorry. I don't know what's going on with my technology,
but it's a delight to be with you.
S2 (04:27):
Such an honor to have you. And you know, one
thing I've been doing. I mentioned to our listeners the
other day that this year I've been buying these what
I call identity bracelets. Right. They're just gold bands where
I imprint something on them that speak to people in
my life that I love, that just to me, that
show their God given kind of calling and something I
see in them. Like my sister, I gave her heart
healer and another friend, wise advocate. And if I were
(04:50):
to buy you an identity bracelet, I would imprint Gentle Healer.
I feel like that is that is such a big
part of who God made you to be, and it's
your gift to the Kingdom. So thank you for being
who you are.
S3 (05:03):
Well, again, honored to be with you and doggone technology
again on that interplay of I'm so glad to be
with you, but somehow we'll get the other technology working
at some point.
S2 (05:16):
No problem. It's good to have you. Well, you've worked
on inner healing for many years. Everyone has trauma of
some kind. Not everyone faces or deals with it or
even understands how past pain impacts present moment. So would
you speak to that?
S3 (05:30):
Well, I think we know without question that suffering is inevitable,
but it also is unpredictable. We don't know when that
phone call will come where we hear news that just
breaks our heart. But we do know that there is
something about the goodness of God and the land of
the living. That phrase from Psalm 27, I would have
(05:52):
despaired if I did not believe that I would see
the goodness of God in the land of the living.
Calls us to be able to face the reality that
death is inevitable. But on the other hand, the resurrection
is our gift. So we live between what's often called
the already. Not yet. We already know the good truth,
(06:16):
yet we live with questions that we've got to have
the courage to actually engage. And that's what suffering does.
It compels us to ask hard questions and come to
a point where we can truly say, not my will,
but your will be done.
S2 (06:33):
And wouldn't you also say when you get to the
other side and you have done some of the hard
work of healing? It's I mean, I look at some
of the things I've endured and overcome. I wouldn't want
to go through them again. But I can attribute wisdom,
hard fought wisdom, the knowledge of God's Word being wiser
to the enemy's schemes. I mean, I have my footsteps
are a little bit surer, if not a lot bit
because of some of the things I've endured. So they
(06:54):
weren't wasted on me, right?
S4 (06:56):
Oh. Oh.
S3 (06:57):
Well, you're just reflecting. Psalm 90, verse 12, count your days,
which I think includes count your suffering, count the heartache,
count the hard moments so that you may grow in wisdom,
and that is an ultimate goal. I mean, we have
no promise that we'll be alive tomorrow, but we do
(07:18):
have the promise that we can grow in our own
God given gifts, but also the wisdom of how to
use them for his purposes.
S2 (07:28):
I've been saying this for years that we, as God's people,
must look at our stories. We must pursue healing in
our stories for two reasons. One, because God loves us
and wants it for us, and two, because there's this
world that desperately needs healing. We can't impart what we
do not possess. And I would even add a third
point if there are unresolved parts of your story in
your backstory, those are, to me, open loops where the
(07:50):
enemy can sneak in and get you to accuse God
of things that the devil is guilty of. Or you think,
was he good? Was he there for me? Like, if
you don't go spend some time and sort that through
with God, there are some doubts that linger kind of unchallenged.
What are your thoughts?
S4 (08:06):
Oh, it's brilliantly put.
S3 (08:08):
Look, the Bible is 70% story, so we know God
loves story. We just went through the gorgeous period of
Heartache Friday, Heartbreak Saturday and Resurrection Sunday. So we know
that we are meant to enter into our own Gethsemane
and our own Golgotha. Why? Because it's the context of
(08:31):
that suffering that opens the door to the wonder of
the miracle of how God rescues. If we have the
courage to face our story, then we also have the
courage to take in the story of God, which is
always a story of God's resurrection.
S2 (08:49):
So what part of your backstory? I know there's many
aspects to your backstory, but that you attribute to what
allows you to do your deepest work of healing in
the present for others?
S4 (08:59):
Well.
S3 (09:00):
One element was I was required by my mom, who
was mentally ill, to be the storyteller to keep her
as sane as she could somehow live. And in many ways,
that heartache of always having to have words, always having
to have a story, always having to keep my mother
from doing something even more destructive than she was apt
(09:22):
to do, I think has been part of the context
of God bringing me into a world where I can
use my voice, my language, my words, my stories to
invite people to the story of God. So right there,
it was a burden and heartache. And at one level,
I hated it. Yet what we often see to be
(09:45):
some of our deepest wounds, God intends, as you already
put it, brilliantly, to turn the tables on the kingdom
of evil and ultimately say what we thought would destroy us,
not only has the potential to create goodness for ourselves,
but even more importantly, to create goodness for others.
S2 (10:06):
And what was the the best catalyst for your healing? Again,
I'm sure it's multifaceted. I know healing is not linear
from point A to point B, but what would you
point to as the most healing balm to your soul
as you sorted through? Because you have to heal from
that before you can actually, you know, steward it in
a way that blesses others.
S4 (10:24):
Well, we're.
S3 (10:25):
Talking about a complex world here to simply say, I
began to speak and people began to, in some sense
taste something of the goodness of God. And it surprised me,
even though in many ways I didn't change my mother's heart.
But I did keep her alive. And that work of
(10:46):
seeing that my voice could actually be used of God.
One of the great gifts was seeing, uh, around the
period in which I came to Christ, the balaam's ass.
I heard that sermon, and I remember thinking, goodness, if
God can use a donkey, I guess I'm in pretty
good stead to be able to be used by God.
(11:09):
So even that simple reality of a sermon that just
struck me as this is crazy. Yet there was the
invitation of, well, if you want to be used of God,
you don't need to worry. He always has purposes for
our suffering. He's not the cause of our suffering, but
he uses the harm of evil to, in many ways,
(11:33):
strike down the power of evil through the revelation of
something good, even in the midst of our heartache.
S2 (11:41):
We have to break here in just a moment. But
I'm wondering when you stood on the ash heap of
your childhood was not. You weren't cared for, you weren't covered.
You were doing the caring and the covering when you
stood on that ash heap, could you ever have imagined
in a million years that you'd be doing what you're
doing now?
S4 (11:57):
No, not.
S3 (11:58):
I mean, take a million and cube it. No, I
my good friends, would have said I would likely not
live beyond the age of 21, but the reality of
being able to look at how God weaves the horror
of what evil brought into a beauty that we could
never comprehend. It's meant to take our breath away and
(12:20):
to take others into that invitation of how do we
stand on the neck of evil and be able to say, indeed,
you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good?
S2 (12:32):
Am I the only one who wants to stand up
and shout right now? Somebody else has got to stand
up and shout. I'm talking to Doctor Dan Allen today.
His book is Redeeming Heartache How Past Suffering Reveals Our
True Calling. We've got a few copies to give away today.
If you've got a question, I got an amen from
the producer. That'll do for right now. If you got
a question, or if you dare to share with me
what part of your story still needs healing, give us
(12:54):
a call at 8775675. That's 675. More great conversation up
ahead with Doctor Dan Allender. Don't go away. We'll be
back in a minute.
S1 (13:37):
We live in a culture whose needs and obstacles to
faith are constantly shifting. Sean McDowell's book apologetics for an
Ever Changing Culture, addresses many current issues and will help
you share and defend the gospel with relevant answers. It's
our thank you gift for supporting equipped this month. We'll
send you a copy with your gift of any amount
(13:59):
to equip. equipped. Just call (888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org.
That's (888)Â 644-4144 or online at equipped radio.org.
S2 (14:24):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. Susie Larson here filling in
for Chris today. We're talking about how your past suffering
reveals your true God given calling that what the enemy
meant for evil. God can and will turn for good,
and he'll work through you in ways that bring healing
to those who desperately need it. Doctor Dan Allender is
my guest, and we're drawing from his book, which we
(14:44):
have copies to give away today. Redeeming Heartache How Past
Suffering reveals our true calling. I'd love to hear if
you've got a testimony of how maybe you've had some
past suffering and now God's turned it and you're working
in that calling. There's something that you're doing now that
you couldn't have done had you not walked through the
hardship or the heartbreak that you did in your past.
Why don't you call us and tell us about it?
(15:05):
Because your testimony, your your, um, story will beget faith
and testimony in someone else. Someone will be listening, going.
If they can do it, God can do it for them.
He can do it for me. Why don't you give
us a call 877675. It's (877)Â 548-3675. And one of the
most amazing things about your book that literally left me
jaw dropped was when you talked about how core trauma
(15:28):
lands in one of three outcast archetypes. And we're going
to walk through these one by one friends. So hang
with me. Core trauma lands in one of these outcast archetypes. Widow. Orphan. Stranger.
Before we dig in and do a deep dive on
these three, give me a kind of a 30,000 foot
view of of how you got here.
S4 (15:46):
Well.
S3 (15:47):
Reading the Old Testament, it was so important to know
God knows our trauma and has named it. And one
of the things we'll say a dozen times is that
if we don't name what's true, we cannot change into
the direction that God has for truth for us. And
those categories of orphans, stranger and widow, are the core
(16:11):
realities that everyone knows some dimension about. So it's where
we begin to engage God in the midst of our suffering,
where redemption can turn us to become more like Jesus.
S2 (16:25):
All right, so let's talk orphan. The orphan is left
to figure things out on their own. I love this
because it's just so descriptive. They seek safety through control.
They attempt to create protective barriers that say, I know
who I am, I know what I need to do.
So talk about that. Orphans, hypervigilance. And if there are
any other defining characteristics for the orphan, like how their
trauma lands them in that type.
S3 (16:49):
Well, the first thing keyword is that you're alone. You
don't have, in one sense family that connects with you,
that protects you, that provides resources, and therefore you have
to be the one responsible to get what you need.
No one else will do. So you've got to provide
(17:09):
for yourself. Which leads us in many ways to hoarding.
I mean, more symbolically than literally, but both where we
have to get what we need, and yet then we
have to hold on to it because we're fairly assured
we'll never get it again.
S2 (17:27):
So what are some kinds of things someone might have
gone through in their backstory that would land them in
this archetype?
S4 (17:33):
Well, a lack of presence.
S3 (17:35):
A lack of somebody seeing you. A kind of failure
of delight and honor. That's what parents are meant to provide,
is a deep sense.
S4 (17:46):
Of.
S3 (17:46):
I delight in you no matter what you do, and
I honor you even if you fail. That gift of
delight and honor we call in our field attachment, the
ability to be present with another. That face to face
engagement where you see, I delight and honor you. When
you are absent of that, you will feel to some
(18:10):
degree alone and lonely. And that's the that's the core
of being an orphan.
S2 (18:16):
And friends, in a moment we're going to talk about
how three of these turn into something beautiful when you heal.
So we'll talk about the healing process of all three
in just a moment. The second one is The Stranger,
and you say the core wound of a stranger is powerlessness.
How does a stranger get into that archetype? Like what
happens for them that they feel like they're outside the
(18:36):
circle of power and favor?
S3 (18:39):
Well, I don't know what third grade recess was like
for you, but it wasn't a lot of joy for me.
I was sort of a weird kid who had sort
of kinky curly hair and a world of blonds, and
I felt simply excluded. And that sense of being without protection,
without honor, without in one sense, respect. I think that's
(19:02):
the experience of most strangers. Like I've done everything I
know to kind of get into the next crowd, but
I don't do it well enough or adequately enough to
be in the in crowd. So when you feel excluded,
when you feel like you don't fit, that's what a
stranger feels.
S2 (19:24):
It's so interesting because the orphan goes towards hypervigilance and control,
where the stranger you say, often goes towards addiction, defiance
or cynicism. Unpack that a bit.
S3 (19:35):
Oh, let's just say strangers who know they are excluded
eventually want to burn the club down. They are often
the angry, dissatisfied, cynical people. Whereas you find an orphan
often wanting to please others, yet never believing that they
will ever really be loved well. So you've got that
(19:56):
interplay of the orphan looking to fit and often fitting,
because they are willing to do whatever required to be
part of a family. Yet the stranger is saying, forget it,
I don't want you. I will make you pay for
having excluded me.
S2 (20:14):
Wow. They're probably known for saying, I don't care what
people think about me. They care a whole lot, but
they're locked elbows, you know, keep you at a distance, right?
S5 (20:22):
Brilliant.
S3 (20:23):
Yes, absolutely. We hide what we fear we can't actually face.
So we often portray a person that we're not. And
we know we're sort of being untrue to ourselves. But
it's the only way. It seems like we can survive
the kind of heartache that we have known.
S2 (20:43):
Wow. Talking to Dan Allender about these three core trauma
archetypes widow, orphans, strangers, strangers. The third hour widow, I'm sorry,
is the third one. And you call it a grief
that imprisons. What are some defining factors of a widow?
Because it may be a literal widow, but it might
be someone who's just known. Incredible loss.
S3 (21:01):
Well, let's start with the literal widow they knew love,
and now it's gone. And even though they know their
spouse didn't abandon them, it feels like abandonment. It feels
like you have left me. And in that I don't
know if I'll ever be loved ever again. It's such
a hard, hard thing to say, but there are a
(21:23):
lot of people who are married who feel like widows
because their spouse just doesn't bring kindness and care and
honor into the relationship. Or you can be single and
feel like a widow because you've never known what your
heart desires. And that is to be a beloved and
have a beloved. So the reality of being a widow,
(21:47):
that's not literal, but it's that felt sense, that love
abandoned me. I'd been betrayed. I have lost what I enjoyed.
And now I feel like a fool for having loved
at all.
S2 (22:00):
You know, in my show we. I've heard from a
number of listeners who've been both literally widowed and then
had adult children walk away and cut them off. And
they would say, every time I've asked the question, they
would say, you know, losing someone who loved me was hard.
But I have fond memories because they loved me to
the end. Losing someone who should love me, who is
(22:21):
living and who walked away much harder. Have you found
that to be true as well?
S3 (22:26):
Oh so well said. Yes. I mean, when we get
betrayed again, when a spouse dies, it we. It's not
because they betrayed us, but it feels like a level
of betrayal that now I'm pumping gas. And they used
to do it. They used to handle the electric bill.
The reality of the mundane things that don't seem like
(22:48):
that big of a deal for a widow. They just
echo that emptiness that I will never know what I
once knew or what I thought I would know. And
now how do I live? How do I live? Well,
in the context of a world that just feels like
it's coupled with everyone else having someone. And I am alone.
S2 (23:11):
And yet they can heal, can't they?
S3 (23:14):
Oh, again, we wouldn't be having this conversation if we
believed that death wins. That's why, as we begin with
the resurrection, we're beginning with the reality that we can
face the horror and heartache of trauma because we ultimately
know there is a redeemer, one who will rescue and frankly,
(23:35):
one who can change even now, the direction of our heartache.
S2 (23:40):
We've just got a couple of minutes before our break,
but this was a wow statement from your book. You
write while an orphan is at war with care and rest,
and a stranger is at war with hope. The widow
is at war with love. Sage's first. Well, maybe break
it down a little more on the other side of
the break. But while an orphan is at war with
care and rest. So what the orphan needs, then you're
saying is care and rest, right?
S5 (24:02):
Yes, absolutely.
S3 (24:04):
Or what faith provides, which is that solid foundation to
know who I am and how I fit into the world.
S2 (24:13):
Wow. And so the strangers at war with hope. So
they're locked down in defiance, going, I don't care, I
don't need you. I'm putting a period at the end
of this sentence. There's no hope in their heart. Is
that right?
S5 (24:26):
Oh, absolutely.
S3 (24:27):
Which is why the idea of dreaming. Of dreaming of
what redemption could bring to me and others. That feels
too terrifying in many ways. The stranger is the tough
girl or boy. But on the other hand, there is
this tender fear that if I hope I will be
disappointed again, RN. Can I endure it? And that's why
(24:50):
I cut off desire as a stranger.
S2 (24:54):
And finally, the widows at war with love. You got
about 30s. Say a word about that.
S3 (24:59):
Well, that's that delight of having somebody mutually involved with
me in which I get to play something of the
face of God for you as you do for me.
And in that loneliness, oftentimes what happens is we cut
off the potential to love and be loved.
S2 (25:19):
On the other side of the break. We're going to
talk about how an orphan heals, a stranger heals, a
widow heals. And I would imagine our best healing happens
in the context of a safe and loving community. You're
a little quiet today. I'd love to hear from you.
Either tell me what part of your story still needs healing,
or maybe a part of your story that you've overcome.
And you can say what the enemy meant for evil.
(25:39):
God has turned for good. I've got copies of Doctor
Dan Allender's book Redeeming Heartache to Give Away. Give us
a call at eight, seven, (877)Â 548-3675. We'd love to hear
from you! You can find resources information on all of
our guests at Equipped radio.org, equipped radio.org, or follow us
on Facebook and Twitter at Equipped radio. We'll be back
(26:01):
in just a moment. This is equipped with Chris Brooks
(26:29):
coming to you from the studios of Moody Radio, of
Susie Larson here, filling in for Chris today. Talking to
my friend, Doctor Dan Allender, he is a hero of
the faith. To me, his book is Redeeming Heartache How
Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling. We'd love to hear
from you. We've been talking about the three archetypes of
trauma the orphan, the widow, the stranger. The orphan has
(26:49):
been left to figure things out on their own. The strangers,
the on the outside of the circle. The widows. The
one who feels like they've lost love. Do you feel
that you land in one of those archetypes? Give us
a call 8775675. And also, if you've been blessed by
this program, we'd sure love to have you partner with us.
If you appreciate the kinds of guests we have on
the show, the kinds of content you get to hear
(27:10):
day in, day out. Would you consider joining us and
being part of the team? Maybe as a monthly equipper,
you can join an elite team that supports, equipped with
their gifts and prayers and receive from Chris a bi
weekly video from Chris, a signed copy of his book,
Urban Apologetics, and even exclusive access to resources that are
just for you. Become an Equipper by calling (888)Â 644-4144 or
(27:34):
find us online at Radio.com. And I want to shout
out to our newest equipper, Nicole in Chicago. Welcome to
our team of Equippers. So how about you? Will you
join us next? 888644 4144. Talking to trauma expert and
friend Doctor Dan Allender about how your past suffering and
loss and disappointments can reveal your true calling. In a moment, doc,
(27:56):
I want to talk to you about how we move
out of healing from healing, out of orphan, out of stranger,
out of widow. Your insight is so powerful. But I
also want to take some calls because suddenly the call
screen has lit up. And so, Irene. Thank you. You're
on the air with Doctor Dan Allen. What's your question today?
S6 (28:13):
Hello, doctor Allen. Um, I was wondering if you could
let me know if your book might be of assistance to. Me?
S2 (28:27):
That's okay.
S7 (28:28):
I can barely hear.
S3 (28:30):
Can you translate for me? I'm so sorry.
S2 (28:33):
I think she's crying. Um, so she wants some help.
Go ahead, honey. Go ahead.
S8 (28:41):
Um. Here.
S2 (28:45):
You have some trauma in your past, right? And you're
having a hard time going through the healing process. Is
that right?
S8 (28:51):
Yes.
S3 (28:53):
Well, I mean, the fact that you called first and foremost,
I just want to say what a brave thing to do.
I think one of the things that for many people,
in the midst of very significant suffering, the last thing
that they tend to do is to actually reach out,
to actually make a call and invite someone to engage.
(29:14):
I know that's not much comfort, but I also want
you to hear the fact you called is in and
of itself, the beginning of the work of inviting us
and inviting others to pray for you, to honor you,
and to be able to say that the beginning of
all change is the cry for help. You have that
(29:36):
simple sentence of the man who says, I believe, help
my unbelief. And every time we ask for help, there
is a gift that the spirit brings to our heart.
Honoring our vulnerability. So that alone, I just want to
say thank you.
S2 (29:53):
Irene, I want to make sure you get a copy
of Dan's book. It is healing therapy, a healing balm
for your soul. So don't hang up. Make sure you
give our producers your information. But I also want to
pray for you before we go to the next call. I, too,
have had some childhood trauma that I thought was going
to take me out. But what I keep going back
to is the passage. I think it's Psalm 16. You
will show me the path of life. There is a
(30:14):
path of life that God has for you, and you
don't have to take it all at once. You just
got to take the next step. And so, father, thank
you for Irene. I echo her bravery. I honor her bravery,
and I thank you, God that the devil will not
have the last say in her life, that you are
writing a beautiful story, and you will take what that
enemy meant for evil, and you will turn it for good. So, Lord,
bring her to a godly therapist. Bring her some safe
(30:37):
people to be in community with her so she can
be messy and walk this out and give her a
vision for what a healed Irene might look like. Thank
you God that you're committed to her wholeness. In Jesus
name we pray. Amen.
S5 (30:51):
Amen.
S2 (30:52):
Bless you, dear one again. Hang on and make sure
you give them your address. Will get you a copy
of of Doctor Dan's book. Alisa is calling in and
she's been very blessed by the conversation and has a
question for you, doc. Thanks. You're on the air with
Doctor Dan Allender.
S9 (31:07):
Hello. Um, I want to thank you for bringing up
this subject, and it has been a true blessing. And
it's right along with my prayer time and my reading
and studying, because it has shown me just how far
the Lord has brought me and the goodness of the Lord.
And he's he's talked to me about dreaming again. He's
(31:29):
talked to me about his care and his rest of me.
Rest for me. And he has just done phenomenal things.
Things that have been beyond my wildest dreams I did have.
I've had seasons all my life where what the enemy
meant for evil. God has turned for good. And I
believe that, um, you can't go wrong there when you
(31:52):
trust God that way. And that's what I'm determined to do.
I have times where I want to be be in control,
and when I'm not, I go back to him and
I was like, okay, so what is your plan? Your plan.
S2 (32:03):
Is.
S9 (32:03):
Best. And I guess what I'm walking through now is
I just want to have that where I really have
someone that delights in me. There's mutual love, respect, and
someone will walk this life with me. Not for what
I can do for them, not for what I can
give them. Not for they for who they perceive I am.
(32:26):
To like to be God's representative on earth where I'm seen, known,
and loved.
S2 (32:32):
Amen. Well, doc, um, right away my thoughts are. I'm
praying God brings you that person with skin on. But
she also I just I know Jesus uses that for her.
What what do you want to say to Alisa?
S3 (32:43):
Well, I just love the fact that you put words
to the fact that you have moments where you want
to be in control. That's true of every human being
on the earth. And in that, the ability to name it.
We're right now in the word confession. There's a Greek word.
It's called homologeo, and it means to confess, but it
(33:05):
means to say the same thing as. So when we
name to God, I'm trying to be you. God. I'm
trying to be in control the way you are. We
have made a confession that allows our hearts to, at
one level, rest. And I hope as well, because I
hear in your voice, Alicia, is a level of laughter.
(33:27):
There is goodness. You have known. And that's where our
ability to be able to say we are meant to
weep with those who weep, including ourselves. That part of
us that we still to this day, but also to
rejoice with those who rejoice, which means even you at
the moment of not having that partner can bring the
(33:48):
kind of humor, playfulness, honor and truth that would be
the kind of person I'm telling you any good man
would want to be.
S2 (33:57):
Come on. Amen. I give that a hearty amen. Alisa.
You are. Uh, boy, you're a treasure. I can just
tell by the things you said. And we'd love to
get you a copy of Doctor Dan's book as well.
So please hang on and give him your address, and
we'll get it out to you. And I think God
will just be setting you up for your next place
of promise. As you continue to steward your healing process
and trust him to work in and through you. So
(34:19):
let's talk. Okay, so we talked about these three archetypes of,
of um, trauma orphan, stranger, widow. And we've got we
can cover one of these before our next break. Healing
looks like this. So orphan is you've been left to
attend on your own. You maybe become hyper vigilant in control,
But you've been outside. You know the care. You've not
(34:39):
received care and covering. So you say the healed orphan
becomes a priest. Say more about that.
S10 (34:46):
Well, a priest.
S3 (34:47):
We know the literature of a priest are the Psalms,
the Psalms, the poetry. But we often fail to understand
that part of the poetry of God, the praise of God, the, the,
the Psalms, are taking God on questioning God directly. Now,
do we think of that as worship? Sadly, we often don't.
(35:09):
But it is when you say to God, you sold
me down the river and didn't make a penny of
my sale. Psalm 44. When we begin to understand that
as an orphan, we are actually called before God to
be able to express all the heartache, all the anger,
all the confusion, and he's with us. His face does
(35:33):
not move from us. You don't see a frown on
his face. You see honor and delight. Even when we
take him on, that means we are sons and daughters
who bear the delight and goodness of God.
S2 (35:49):
So, friend, do you hear that when you are, when
you see yourself as the orphan, that's where your trauma
lands you and you start to heal and realize you
have inner throne room access to Almighty God. And when
you come boldly, confidently into his presence, he's glad to
see you. I want you to imagine that. And when
his his heart starts to heal you, you understand the
access you have. You understand the relationship you have, that
(36:11):
you have a father who enjoys you, who sings over you.
Suddenly you move from victim to victor, from orphan to priest.
A priest who advocates for other orphans. Right? I mean,
that's what happens is eventually, as you start to get healed,
you spot orphans and you advocate for them. And that
is beautiful. We're going to pause here and take a break.
But when we come back, we're going to talk about
(36:32):
the stranger. You know what the healed stranger looks like.
They turn into a profit. They've been outside the circle
for so long, they actually had the benefit of a
profound perspective that insiders just don't get because they're in
the echo chamber. But as you get healed, you get
to step back into that circle with a prophetic perspective.
That's from Doctor Dan Allender's brilliant book, Redeeming Heartache How
(36:54):
Past Suffering Reveals Our True Calling. We've got a few
calls coming in as well. What great conversation! Don't leave us.
We'll be back in just a moment.
S1 (37:32):
Sharing your faith can be challenging. How do you confidently
engage with questions about truth, technology, and culture while staying
grounded in Scripture? That's why Chris Brooks has chosen apologetics
for an ever changing culture as our gift. When you
support equip this month, it will help you provide thoughtful,
informed answers to the pressing questions of our time. Request
(37:56):
your copy today with a gift of any amount. Call
(888)Â 644-4144 or visit Equip radio.org.
S2 (38:10):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson filling in
for Chris today. We're talking about how your past suffering
reveals your true God given calling. What the enemy meant
for evil. God can turn for good. Today I'm talking
with trauma expert and gentle man of God, Doctor Dan Allender.
We've got a few copies of his amazing book, Redeeming
Heartache How Past Suffering Reveals Our True calling. And we've
(38:32):
been talking about these three archetypes, these trauma archetypes that
he talks about in his book that we land in
based on what we've walked through and where we come from. Orphan,
where you are left to figure things out on your
own and you become maybe hyper vigilant in control. The
stranger where you're left outside the circle, and the widow
where you've left, been left unloved. And we've got a
few calls on the line. But I want you to
(38:53):
say a quick word about the healed stranger turns into
a prophet. Say a word about that, if you would.
S3 (38:59):
Well, when the stranger begins to realize that his anger,
her anger actually honors God because God hates injustice. So
when we begin to understand that our anger can actually
invite people to see what's wrong and therefore to create
what is beautiful and good, the prophet actually is inviting
(39:23):
people to a restored world. And that dream, that desire,
is meant to elevate the heart of one who has
known what it is to be outside, to actually now
be inside. So the true prophet isn't angry. They're disruptive
in a way that brings goodness into the land of
(39:45):
the living.
S2 (39:46):
Okay, friends, so think about that. The orphan becomes a priest,
and maybe not in the priest that you think of
a priest who's an advocate, someone who goes to the
throne room because they have access and they advocate for
other orphans. The stranger is no longer angry, like they
don't care. Suddenly they start to care. They step inside
the circle because they get to be there. But they
bring a unique perspective as an outsider perspective, a perspective
(40:08):
that we all need. Before we get to the widow,
I want to get to Selena because she says she
feels like she lands in all three archetypes. And I've
heard you say before, that's not unusual. Selena. Selena, thanks
for joining us. You're on the air with Doctor Dan.
S11 (40:21):
Hi. Good afternoon.
S2 (40:23):
What's your question for doc?
S11 (40:27):
So it's not uncommon to I feel like you belong
to all three groups.
S10 (40:32):
Oh.
S3 (40:33):
Amen. Brilliant question. Because the reality is, we all know
what it is to be alone, what it means to
be left out, and in some ways, what it means
to be, in one sense, without love. So the fact is,
we may have one that's truer, feels truer. But the
(40:54):
fact is we all fit to some degree, all three,
just like we're all meant to be prophet, priests and
kings and queens, because that's what reflects Jesus. He's the
perfect priest, the perfect prophet, the perfect king. So as
our trauma makes us all more alike than not, so
(41:17):
is our calling to be the one who reveals something
about our prophet, priest, and King Jesus?
S2 (41:25):
Celina, does that help you? Because think about how the
healing that God's going to, the healing he's going to
lead you into will really establish you in those three areas.
And would you say more often than not, we're probably
bent towards a strength in one over the other two?
S10 (41:39):
Oh, absolutely.
S3 (41:40):
In other words, we probably have more suffering in one
than the others. But therefore, what's often the weakest part
of us, the most harmed. Actually, God loves to make
one of the strongest parts of what we offer the world.
S2 (41:55):
Wow. Selena, thanks for that call because that's a super
important point. God bless you and love to get you
a copy of the book if you want to hang
on and get your address. We just have a couple
minutes left. And so I think with this next call.
Mary's calling in and she is a widow. Let's use
her call. And just the opportunity to talk about the
healed widow becomes a king or a queen. Mary. First love.
(42:16):
We just have a couple minutes. So if you could
get your question, and then we'll get an answer in
and we'll pray for you.
S12 (42:22):
Hi. I, um, married for 30 years. To the love
of my life. He passed away from cancer eight years ago.
Our only child moved home from college and did fall apart.
We pulled it back together. I waited five years to date.
I dated this very charming, romantic man who, on the
(42:47):
day that I had to put my son in rehab,
devastated me and broke up with me. So I feel
like I'm like, kind of all three of these. I
just praise the Lord that I got to hear this
program and that, um, I'm just kind of reeling from. Okay,
(43:07):
I've accepted my husband's passing. I have I know where
he's at. I know he's with the Lord. But this
man that devastated me, you know, he's still here walking
the earth. And of course, my son is furious with
me that I put him in rehab for a serious
drug addiction that I missed while I was dating this charmer.
S2 (43:30):
Bless your heart. We just got a little bit of time. Dan,
what would you like to say to Mary?
S3 (43:34):
Well, Mary, your experience of loss with your husband is
in many ways, it's a common reality that in that loss,
there's so much grief that it blinds us to something of.
In one sense, as you put it, the charmer that
in some sense, like the snake, worked to seduce and
draw you in and yet broke your heart. But you
(43:58):
have known so much suffering. I know this is going
to be too quick, but the suffering gives you such
leadership capacity because it is the brokenhearted who are the
best revealers of how power is meant to be used
for others.
S2 (44:16):
You know, we've got I want to give you another minute.
And as you're talking, Dan, I honestly can get a
picture of Mary of you like leading groups. I see
you being, you know, helping wisely, helping parents who've got
wandering kids and helping single women who've been widowed or divorced.
Helping them find their footing again. I mean, that is
utterly within the realm of possibility, isn't it? Doctor Dan?
S10 (44:38):
Oh, it is, because.
S3 (44:40):
When you've had loss like that, including your son in
rehab and then the charmer. So much shame, so much
shame in the midst of what you have endured. And yet,
when shame gets to a point where you begin to go,
Jesus took all the shame on the cross that evil
wants me to ingest. It's where you begin to go.
(45:03):
I have the power to lead because I'm no longer
bound to death, nor fear, nor shame.
S2 (45:11):
Mary. I don't know if you heard yesterday's show, but
it was about shame off you. And if you get
the chance, go back and listen, because no shame belongs
on you. I want to pray for you as we
get ready to wrap the show today. I just know
it was a divine appointment. I literally got on my
knees before the show and said, Lord, bring the right
people in and activate the healing process and I pray
you hear the tenderness and compassion in Dan's voice that
(45:34):
that's that's Jesus heart for you. There's no shame on you.
There's now a path forward for healing and wisdom and
authority where you can not only heal, but you can
help others heal. So, God, I thank you for this
beautiful woman, this brave woman, this woman that you love
and are going to lead in the path of life,
heal her son, redeem their relationship. And I pray God
(45:55):
that her latter years would be far more blessed than
her former years. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. I
can't thank you enough for this time today, doc. I
just what you do, you do so well and with
such a tender, Christ like heart. Thank you for giving
us your time.
S3 (46:11):
Oh, Susie, you know, I would start a lemonade stand
with you, so thank you.
S2 (46:16):
You said that before, and I might just hold you
to that someday.
S8 (46:21):
Well.
S10 (46:21):
It would be a ball.
S2 (46:23):
Yeah. Thank you so much, my friend. You know, years ago,
I had a pastor author on my show, Jeff Manion,
and he said, we've tried to become experts at not
getting hurt. We need to become experts at learning to heal.
You know, we're going to hurt. But can we become
experts at learning to heal? I pray you found some
encouragement here today. If you need more information on any
of our guests, you can visit us online at equipped radio.org.
(46:46):
That's equipped radio.org. I'm Susie Larson and from all of
us at equipped. We're just so glad you listened today.
I pray you find yourself on the healing path, because
that's what Jesus is about is full restoration of who
you are. Thanks for listening today. Equipped is a production
of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. We'll
meet you back here next time.
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