April 23, 2025 • 47 mins
Many of us blame ourselves for things we could not control - or for things we should have controlled and didn’t - and we carry that shame every day of our lives.
Find the power to escape your past today as guest host Susie Larson talks with Pastor Alan Wright about the secret to letting that shame roll off and accepting the unconditional love of Jesus.
Today's Resource: Free to Be Yourself: Find the Power to Escape Your Past
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:19):
Well. Hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of
equipped with Chris Brooks! I am so thrilled that you've
joined us today. Why don't you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always, with the lens of the
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He is giving it as a gift so that you
(00:41):
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice! I hope you're having a great day.
I'm going to be away from the program today, but
I want you to join me in welcoming Susie Larson
to the hot seat. Now, many of you know Susie.
(01:03):
She's a best selling author, speaker, radio host. She loves
Jesus and most of all loves helping people draw into
a deeper life in Christ. She's also a wife, a mother,
and a grandmother as well. Susie, thank you for hosting
this edition of equip.
S2 (01:21):
So honored to be back here again, Chris. And we
continue to pray for you and your family. Friends, I
want you to think about this. Did you know that
most people live with a measure of shame? In fact,
I would guess everybody lives with a measure of shame.
And that shame skews your perspective. It kills your creativity
and it steals your joy. And as Christ followers, we've
got to be quick to discern the difference between conviction
(01:43):
and condemnation. Conviction tells me I've done something wrong. Shame
tells me I'm something wrong. I'm the problem and it
can't be fixed. Yet Scripture says there is no condemnation
for those who are in Christ Jesus. So how do
you pick up shame? How do you know if you're
operating in shame? And how do you break free from it?
These are some of the topics we're going to tackle
today with our guest, pastor and author, Alan Wright. He
(02:06):
says that shame is an inner tyrant that has to go.
Pastor is my friend and he oozes blessing. In the
love of God, you're going to love him. And if
there's time at the end of the show, I'm going
to ask Pastor Alan to speak a blessing over you.
You're not going to want to miss it. If you
already know the ways that shame shows up in your life,
give us a call 87756758775483675. Let me tell you about
(02:31):
my guest. We'll get him on the show. Alan writes
lead pastor of an old church in North Carolina. It's
a 110 year old Presbyterian congregation, vibrantly renewed and meeting
in four cities. He's a popular conference speaker. He's the
author of several books, including The Power to Bless Seeing
as Jesus Sees. He hosts a daily 30 minute radio
program that airs nationally on 400 stations. He's known for
(02:52):
empowering people to see their lives in a whole new
light through the gospel message of pure grace. He and
his sweetheart, Ann have two grown children, and when not
writing or preaching, he loves golfing, guitar, the beach, and
making his new grandbaby smile. Pastor Alan, welcome to equipped.
S3 (03:06):
Susie is so good to be with you.
S2 (03:09):
Well, friends need to know that you're a regular guest
on my show, so we're good buds. And this is
content that's very near and dear to my heart. And
you are to me, the expert on breaking free from shame.
So I can't wait to dig in. Let's start here.
How and when did you first discern shame in your
own life?
S3 (03:25):
You know, it's so interesting that I went to seminary, um,
did some doctorate courses in marriage and family therapy, did
clinical pastoral education, and I was probably close to ten
years in the ministry before I even really knew what
it was. I was having lunch with a counselor in
(03:48):
our church, and we were just chatting, and he does
a lot of work in the area of addiction. And
I said, well, what do you think is the root
of addiction? He said, I think it's shame. I said,
what do you what do you think? What does that mean?
He said, well, a sense of not measuring up as
if you got to do something to make yourself more
acceptable in order to be fully loved. And, uh, we
(04:11):
began talking about it at lunch, and when I left,
I thought, um, well, I sure have a lot of
performance driven tendencies. And I began to do some self-inventory
and I said, I think I'll preach on this. And
so I preached a message and I thought about how
the world says, shame on you, and you ought to
(04:33):
be ashamed of yourself. And so I came, and I
preached a message called Shame off you and how Jesus
came to Take the shame off you. And I realized, Susie,
when I was preaching it, this was for me more
than anybody. And I was going to continue. And I
think I preached 14 weeks on this in the mornings,
(04:54):
in the evenings, and something like a revival started happening
at our church. People began finding freedom in ways they
never had before, and I knew it was going to
be a life message for me. And so it has become,
and I just love helping others discover what I discovered
(05:14):
myself about freedom in Christ.
S2 (05:16):
Well, that's what I was going to say, is that
you always go first, pastor. I mean, you're an accomplished author,
an accomplished pastor. But what leads, I think, in your
character is, is the virtue of humility, where you you
go first and you are able to do some reflection
and maybe be a little bit later in the show.
We can get into some of your backstory where God
really showed you the lies you picked up when life
let you down, and we all have those areas of striving.
(05:38):
And in a bit, guys, we're going to talk about
just the different ways she manifests in our lives, because
you might say, oh, I don't deal with shame because
I don't feel bad about myself, but it may show
up in a way that you've never thought of before.
But let's start here, pastor. What is shame and why
is it so damaging?
S3 (05:53):
In the simplest definition, shame is a lie. It is
a deception that I think is formulated in hell, and
it simply says, you don't just make mistakes. There's something
about you that is a mistake. And it's not just
that you are flawed. It's that because you're flawed, you
(06:16):
can't be fully loved and accepted. So it is, in
a sense, just a deception that takes root and usually
becomes what I think the Bible calls a stronghold, a
whole set of beliefs. But it's founded on this as
I am now. I don't measure up, and it's my
(06:36):
job to figure out how to measure up so that
I could be fully accepted and fully loved and fulfilled
in this world.
S2 (06:45):
You know, it's so interesting is the truth is, you know,
as you've said before, too, we are flawed, we're flawed,
yet we're deeply loved. We weren't enough, but Jesus was
more than enough. And that lie takes a turn saying,
because I'm flawed, I can't be loved. And if we
stop there because I think the positivity movement is you're enough,
everything you have is within you and we're not enough.
(07:07):
I mean, we were born in sin, and we we
are sinners who needed a Savior. Thank God we have one.
But somehow we get stuck at the flawed part. And
that's the disqualifier. And then it shows up in so
many different ways. And I thought, it's so fascinating how
you preached on The Prodigal Son, and you said, really,
the shame shows up more in the older brother than
it does the decadent younger brother speak to that, if
(07:29):
you would?
S3 (07:29):
It's probably one of the most important things, if this
is new to our listeners, that any of our listeners,
if you're thinking, well, shame you, because I would have
said that doesn't that's not my story. I thought shame
was about the just the drug addict, or the person
in the gutter, or the person who's given up, and
I was instead I was the I was the the
grade monger, straight-A kid, you know, that was trying to
(07:52):
be perfect. And but in looking at the story we
call the prodigal, but really, it's the story of the
two sons, because the first son who wanders off in
rebellion and riotous living, we know he's not happy with
his life, and we know that there's something that's flawed
inside of him that's thinking wrong. And and we don't
(08:14):
pay as much attention to the older. But the story
is as much about the older. And you can see
in the whole narrative that Jesus gives that when this
younger comes back, he has this authentic. What is a
picture of the conviction of the Holy Spirit? He has
he has a transformation. The text I love it. It
(08:34):
says he came to himself. Like, this is not who
I really am. And his sense of sonship, though it
was still tainted by his thought. I'm not even worthy
to be your son. He comes back. He's. He is.
He is enfolded into the arms of his father, and
he joins in the celebration. But the older brother who
(08:55):
is on the outside never comes in, and he unveils
the condition of his heart when he says, look, I've
slaved for you all these years, Right. So he's just announcing.
I don't see myself as a son who's loved. I
see myself as someone who is working for your approval.
(09:15):
I'm working for something. I'm, I'm I'm I'm slaving for
something here. And the father says, oh, all I have
is yours. What I really want is your fellowship. Come
into the celebration, and the older brother can't come in.
And I realized in so many ways how our performance
based living is really finding its root in shame. That
(09:36):
says unless you are perfect, you're not going to be
wonderfully accepted and you have to always postpone your celebration.
And I did a lot of that, Susie. It was
like nobody in my family. No, my parents didn't say,
you got to be absolutely perfect, or else you're not
going to be loved around here. It's more like we
(09:57):
can just breathe it in in this performance driven culture
of ours. And then as a Christian, we can become
confused and think, okay, now I'm a Christian. I know
I've got the grace of God. But we can even
turn our life with God into something more like a performance.
And so, uncovering the fact that shame could lead one child,
(10:20):
one son towards the pigpens and the prostitutes, and another
towards performance, is very much like saying it can take
you towards rebellion, rebellion, or it can take you towards religion,
but it's the same root.
S2 (10:34):
Wow, think about that friend. It can take you towards
rebellion or towards religion. And I really am asking you
to do some self-reflection today. I think one of the
ways you can discern if there's an area of shame
in your life, if you can finish this sentence, I'm
not worth. I'm not worth marrying. I'm not worth saving.
I'm not worth healing. I'm not worth forgiving. I'm not
worth restoring. You can identify some shame. But another example,
(10:57):
because that's that rebellion or that's the self-sabotage. But then
when you get into religion and performance. I'm striving to prove,
you know. I'm working very hard to prove. Is there
something you've got to prove? Is there a person in
your life that you want to prove wrong? Because they've
always said you'd never be enough? If there's kind of
that over performance or there is this self-sabotage, I'm not
(11:18):
worth it. I challenge you to ask yourself those questions
and just discern, is this something I'm dealing with? Because
we would both venture to guess that most people do.
So as we get ready to go to break, I
want to read this list that we'll unpack on the
other side. Some of the symptoms of shame based thinking.
Are you hypersensitive? If someone addresses something with you in
a very balanced way, they love you. They're not. It's
(11:40):
not an indictment, but you take it personal. There might
be shame. How about self-doubt? How about people pleasing? Fear
of failure. Self-sabotage. If you want to talk, we'd like
to listen. Give us a call. 8775675. I'm Susie Larson,
sitting in for Chris Brooks, talking to author Pastor Alan Wright.
We'll be back in just a moment.
S1 (12:29):
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struggle to connect God's unchanging truth to our changing world.
Apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture by Sean McDowell equips
you with the practical tools for meaningful conversation about faith.
With chapters from 26 leading Christian thinkers, including our own
(12:50):
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or visit equipped radio.
S2 (13:06):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson, filling in
for Chris today and tomorrow. We're talking today about the
power of shame, why it's important to identify it and
remove it from our lives. You know, we'll never be
all God intended us to be if we live with
this lingering sense of shame. You know why? Because shame
is a lie. Jesus defeated sin and shame on the cross.
(13:27):
Does that mean you should never feel bad about your sin?
Absolutely not. Conviction is a core principle in the life
of a believer, and we'll talk about that in a
little bit. But when the Spirit of God convicts, it's
with love. It's a holy invitation to a deeper life
in the spirit. It's about invitation, not condemnation. Today I'm
talking with author and pastor Alan Wright. We're talking about shame,
how to break free, and you can check out his
(13:48):
book if you want to read more. He's written a
lot about it. Free to be yourself. Find the power
to escape your past. Pastor, we've got a friend calling
in today who made some choices in his past that
he's still carrying with him today. But first I want
to give the number. If you want to know how
to break free from shame, we can keep your name anonymous.
Or maybe you've already broken free. You can say I
once was lost, now I'm found. I used to be
(14:09):
buried in that heap of shame. But this is how
I got free. We'd love to hear your story. To (877)Â 548-3675.
We're going to Aaron from Akron, Ohio.
S4 (14:22):
Hi. Um, yes, I'm glad to be here. Um, a
lot of shame in my past. I was convicted 25
years ago, and I got out in 2000 from being
in prison. And I've been out for 15 years, and
I have this weight and just in a total shame,
(14:44):
somewhat paralyzing over me because I've lost my job two
times in the past year because of what happened 25
years ago. And it's pretty crushing anymore.
S2 (14:55):
Oh, wow. Pastor, what would you say to this friend today?
S3 (15:00):
Well, first I'd just say God bless you, friend. That's crushing. And, um.
And we we grieve with you. Um, that is something
to be grieved that, um, you who sounds very much like, uh,
someone who has experienced a lot of transformation and you
have so much to give and so much to offer. Um,
(15:22):
and to lose jobs over, uh, things from the past.
It's very painful. I've. I've had friends and parishioners that
I've walked through in that same journey, and I'm just
so sorry. So that's the first is, um, I grieve
with you. And I think the second thing to say
is that one of the primary sources of shame is, uh,
(15:45):
the the strategy of hell is to focus on anything
in our past, whether it be past sin or, uh, past, uh,
failures or past mistakes and to take our mind back
to that. Um, as if that. Identifies us. And here
(16:06):
is the powerful message of the gospel that liberates us
from shame. You are not defined by your past failures
and successes. You're defined by God. You're defined by the
grace of God and what he's done for you in
Jesus Christ. You are his son. You're his child, and
(16:27):
you are accepted in the beloved. Not partially, but fully.
And no sin of yours, and no past mistake of
yours has any bearing on your relationship with God, and
therefore your identity is founded in who you are in Christ.
And your future is sure and certain. And I think
(16:47):
that therefore you can face this kind of disappointment without, um,
letting your mind go back to both the regret and
the pain and the what ifs, and how it could
have been different, or into bitterness about rejections you might experience.
But instead, I think what the gospel does in liberating
(17:07):
from shame, it can stop that mental recording that's going, wow,
I failed, and now I'm feeling like a failure. It
is really a cliche, but it's really true that our
past failures do not make us a failure. We can't be.
We are in Christ and you are brother, and I
bless you. I bless you that you would be able
(17:28):
to walk in the fullness of that grace.
S2 (17:32):
You know, a friend, before we let you go, I'm
going to. You've already been speaking a blessing over him, pastor. But, um,
you know, he talks about his his jobs that he's
recently lost from mistakes he made 20 years ago. Now,
sometimes people can't deal with, they can't see redemptively. But
sometimes it's the shame, you know, that that that he's
walking under such a weight of shame that that's what's
(17:53):
perpetuating possibly the sabotage and the failure around him. And
so I want you, friend, to believe in new beginnings.
I want you to believe just what pastor said that
that Jesus blood on the cross, that he shed his
victory on the cross is more than enough for you.
That he has more love and grace and one drop
of blood than sin and shame. You have in your past.
(18:16):
His power to save and redeem really makes a public
spectacle of the enemy. That's what Scripture says. So I want,
if you wouldn't mind, pastor and friend Aaron, I want
you to, if you're able, unless you're driving, then don't
do this. But if you're home somewhere, open your hands
in your lap like you're about to receive a gift.
Because this is what Pastor Allen does best. He speaks. Blessing.
(18:37):
Would you speak a blessing of new beginnings over Aaron?
S3 (18:40):
Aaron. While I was speaking, I the image of Joseph, um,
who was despised by his brothers, rejected. Mistreated. To falsely accuse,
put in prison and seemingly forgotten, had a moment where,
in the most unlikely manner he was remembered unto Pharaoh.
(19:05):
He was remembered and then placed into a position of
influence for the purposes of God. And I just feel
faith for you, Aaron, that God who sees in secret
what other people can't. God who does not look upon
the outward things but upon the heart. God who has
(19:26):
plans for us and a future for us and purposes
for us that other people might not be able to see.
He sees you, and I want to bless you with
a sense of readiness in your spirit, such that when
that next tap on your shoulder, that next invitation, that
(19:46):
next offer, that next position comes that you will feel
no bit like an impostor, but like you were made
for this and that. You can walk into it with
fullness of joy, and may it come to pass for
you soon. Yesterday is over, today is here. And God
does have a provision and I bless you in it.
(20:07):
My brother.
S2 (20:08):
I too. Aaron, we love you. We appreciate you. And, uh,
can we get Aaron back on? I just want to
make sure that he is in a place where he
has received Christ, where he is in Christ. Is he
still with us?
S4 (20:21):
I'm still here. I do know him as Lord God. Savior.
S2 (20:24):
There you go. There you go, sir. There you go. We.
You are saved. You've been transferred out of the kingdom
of darkness into the kingdom of God's own. Dear son.
New beginnings are for you. You're not exempt from that.
His blood covers you. Is there any, uh, comments you
want to just feedback from pastor's words over you before
we end this call?
S4 (20:42):
I thank you for that. You just reminded me about Joseph,
which that was actually mentioned too. So that has to
be some kind of confirmation. I do know that this
will end in a testimony to his glory. It just
sucks right now.
S2 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah. Bless you buddy. Well, I pray you can
get Ahold of Alan's book. I don't have any to
give away today, but the power to bless. I think
it will. It'll rock your world in the best way.
But keep looking up, keep moving on and reject rejection
in Jesus name. Thanks for calling today. Wow. Thank you
for that, pastor. I love that I can toss that
to you. And you can. You got a blessing at
the ready. And friends, I'm going to ask him to
(21:17):
speak a blessing over you toward the end of the show.
So hang tight if you would. Some of the symptoms
of shame, hypersensitivity, self-doubt, people pleasing, fear of failure, self-sabotage.
Say a word, if you would, about hypersensitivity.
S3 (21:30):
Well, to be honest, I saw it in my own
life once I started learning about shame and discovered there
was something like a inward tyrant. You know, something that
was driving me. That was I mean, it was a Christian.
I loved the Lord, you know? But why was I
why was I so driven? And I began to really
take an inventory, and I think this is a wonderful
(21:53):
gift from the Holy Spirit. As you were saying at
the outset, Susie, the conviction of the Holy Spirit. He's
the greatest teacher in the world. He loves to show
you a better way. So I began to be more open, uh,
to him. And this was part of what I discovered
is why why am I too sensitive about things? Why?
(22:14):
Why two examples. Why could I preach a sermon? And
maybe even hundreds of people walk out and say, wow,
I was really blessed. Thank you. That really nourishes me.
And then get, uh, one critical email and think more
about the critical email than all of the other good
and maybe even brood over it. Or even more, maybe
some of our listeners could identify. It'd be like in
(22:35):
the early part of my marriage, my wife would be like, uh, honey,
the trash needs to go out. It was part of
my duties. I'm the trash man. And, uh, but I
remember early on, you know, like, she's like, oh, the
trash needs to go out and and finding myself being
kind of upset, like, uh, you know, I'm going to
take it out and, uh, you know, and it's like that,
(22:57):
that thing like, like as if she's saying, um, if
you were a better husband, you would have taken the
trash out. But that's not what she was saying. She
was just saying it needs to go out. So why
was I having these kind of reactions? And see what
shame does is it can make our souls sensitive, hyper sensitive.
Because if you believe that in any measure, my performance
(23:22):
is the way the pathway, the avenue to really being
loved and accepted, then anything that threatens or makes it
feel like you're letting others down, or that your performance
is not up to par, then it sets off some
kind of silent alarm in the soul that says, oh no,
we're at risk. My my acceptance level is at risk. right?
(23:46):
And that can make you angry. It can make you withdrawn.
It can just make you sensitive so your feelings get
hurt by everything. And really, the root of that is shame.
S2 (23:57):
In shame is not static. And it's not isolated or compartmentalized.
Because if you're not dealing with your shame, you're not
only paying a price, but the people around you are
paying a price because you are living in a series
of reactions to your stuff versus response to God. And
that's costly. Shame is costly. And we've just got about
a minute before we take a break. But say a
(24:18):
word about that, that this is not compartmentalized. You might.
You don't carry your own privatized shame. It impacts how
you show up in life.
S3 (24:26):
It impacts every single thing, the way you relate to people,
the way you relate to a spouse, the way you parent,
the way you work. And see, part of the problem
is that sometimes for those of us are hard working, right?
The shame can actually be motivating you, but it's breeding
Reading anxiety and leading towards workaholism. Well then, what does
(24:49):
that do to relationships or shame can manifest in simply
that shamed people shame other people. We don't like the
feeling of shame. It's a horrible feeling and so we'd
like to displace it. We'd like to focus towards someone else.
And sometimes that means that it gets focused on another
(25:11):
family member, or sometimes it gets focused on someone else
at work. Shame is diabolical and it works its way
into all the fabric of life. We must get free.
S2 (25:24):
Amen. Amen. Pastor does a conference called Shame Off You,
and it's based on his book that you can find
information to ordered on equipped radio.org. It's called free to
be yourself. More resources. All show information is at equipped radio.org.
Equipped radio.org. When we come back, we'll talk more about
the symptoms of shame and how to break free. Because
when you break free, you help others get free too.
(25:46):
I'm Susie Larson, sitting in for Chris Brooks. Pastor Allen
Wright is my guest. More great conversation up ahead. This
(26:20):
is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from the
studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson filling in for
Chris today and tomorrow. Today I'm talking with author Pastor
Allen Wright about the power of shame and the invitation
to break free. Question for you if you've been blessed
by this show repeatedly as you listen, would you consider
becoming a partner partner with us? Do you appreciate the
(26:40):
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Do you learn from the interaction with these great Christian
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(27:02):
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(27:23):
or visit us online at equipped radio.org. Talking with pastor
and author Ellen Wright today about the power of shame
and the the ability to break free and pastor. Before
the break, I was talking about how shame is not static.
It's not privatized or compartmentalized. It spills over into our
relationships and even our performances. How we show up. We've
got a caller who's calling in about exactly that. Michelle,
(27:46):
welcome to the show. You're on the air with Pastor Allen.
What's your question for him today?
S5 (27:51):
Well, good afternoon, Mrs. Larson and Pastor Wright. Thank you
for taking my call. Um, do you have any direction
or advice for those of us who live with a
person who is so deeply entrenched with their shame that
it's reflected in their everyday behavior and is destroying those
they love and live with? Um, I'm specifically speaking about
(28:13):
my husband. I do not want to tell him that
my love is based. Only you know that my love
is based on his behavior, or if only he straightens
out or addresses his shame, but he refuses. We've been
to Christian counseling multiple times, and he refuses to do
the work, and I don't, because again, I see that
(28:36):
I'm feeding into it. If I say, honey, I'll only
love you if. But I'm getting to the point where
my mercy and grace is running thin.
S2 (28:46):
That's so hard. Pastor, what do you say?
S3 (28:49):
Well, the first thing is, is we were speaking earlier
about the power of blessing. Um, you know, the the
power of speaking a positive vision over someone's life in faith, um,
with love and with scriptural, uh, rooting to it. That
that's really what blessing is. And you remember, God blessed
(29:12):
Adam and Eve, and then he said, be fruitful and multiply.
He didn't say, be fruitful and multiply, and then I'll
bless you. So with God, blessing precedes transformation and productivity.
And I would first encourage you that no matter what,
even when you're frustrated, you can speak blessing. And this
(29:36):
is to say that it's grace and truth. It is
to say that even when someone we love is. Really
living in a in a destructive way, that the intent
of our words and the tenor of our words is,
that's not who you are. Um, I don't I don't
(29:58):
see that as your life destiny. In other words, in
your heart you're saying I see, uh, more in you
than that. And as you speak it, and I'm telling you,
men are responsive, very responsive to their wife's blessing. It
can take the form of, um. And it can take
the form of. I know that you are able. Uh,
(30:19):
it is able to you're you're able to do this.
It can take the form of getting scripture that can
remind him who he who he is. Um, and of
God's plans for his life. And I'm not talking about
just a whole bunch of constant religious language towards them.
I'm talking about a whole temperament and the way that
(30:40):
you think, and that you can actually craft some, some
spoken verbal blessings that you say, I really wanted him
to hear this. And maybe there's a right moment at
dinner time or sometime when you're having a good conversation,
you're affirming him like that. Because what shame does, especially
in a man's soul, it makes him feel like, well,
(31:03):
I don't measure up. And one option to avoid the
pain of that feeling of not measuring up is to
just not try at all. Yeah, I've known people who
either were going to be a perfectionist or they weren't
going to try at all, and there was nothing in between.
And I've tried to understand, and I realized either way
is a type of avoidance of the pain of shame.
(31:26):
We do not like feeling ashamed. We hate it. It's
a horrible feeling. And so some people mask it with
substances and Services and activities. Some people just mask it by.
I'm not going to really try. I'm not going to
put in the work. I'm not going to do it.
And so I think that part of what you can
do is without affirming sin or affirming laziness or affirming
(31:52):
anything that's contrary to God's Word, you can affirm him.
You can. You can biblically and authentically speak blessing over
his life. And I would do that. Um, this doesn't
mean that you're endorsing any wrong behavior. It just means
that instead of your focus being on how can I
(32:15):
get him to change his bad behaviors, attitudes, or mindsets,
you are proclaiming, uh, a power over him. And I
just believe that there's mystical and graceful, uh, power that
God has put into this principle of blessing. That would
be the primary thing I would advise you to do.
S2 (32:33):
I love that pastor. And you know, my hubby always
says when he mentors young men, men feel that if
there's not a path to a win, they're not going
to try. And many years ago, when he was walking
through a stage of not alcoholism, workaholism, sorry about that.
He's he's just working so much because he felt like
the world was on his shoulders. And I, I was
getting tired, too. And, Michelle, I'm not pretending to say
(32:54):
I've walked through what you're walking through because it's very different.
But I felt like I was managing everything alone because
he felt like everything was on his shoulders. And I
just heard the little whisper, that's not who he is.
That's not what he's called to be. So I started
to put my hand on his shoulder before he'd leave
for work and just say, let me pray a prayer blessing.
And I'd say, Lord, I thank you that my husband
is a mighty man of God. He is a powerful leader.
(33:15):
He loves your word. He loves his family. He works
with excellence. And all those things were true. It's just
that his striving was sort of squelching it. But the
more I prayed it, the more I felt it. The life.
And I could feel that vision like I was speaking
what God would speak if he was standing over him.
And that brought life to him. And I think that's
what you're talking about. Right, pastor?
S3 (33:34):
Yes it is. And I feel like that a lot
of men that what looks like a lack of motivation
is actually anxiety. And just remember, sin came in the world.
The first thing that happened was that Adam and Eve
were afraid. And the first thing that a man did
was he began to shift the blame and cover himself
(33:56):
up and become isolated. And this is what happens. I
see it in the soul of men. But that anxiety
of now I feel like there's something wrong with me.
It really it exhausts us and it puts us at
our worst. So you and your power of blessing, of affirming, um, uh,
(34:21):
your belief that he can be as God has made
him to be is going to be very powerful to him.
S2 (34:28):
And Lord, I pray for Michelle because she needs someone
to bless her too. Um, I know what that is.
To just become weary in well-doing when you see no breakthrough.
So I bless her with with friends and community and
others to speak life over her. I pray you'd strengthen
her and encourage her. Give her wisdom. Give her vision.
Give her God given vision for her husband. And I
pray you'd put truth tellers in his path to speak
(34:49):
life to him as well, and that these walls would
start to crumble. And the true man of God, the
image bearer that he's meant to be, would start to emerge.
And you'd redeem and restore this marriage beyond their wildest dreams.
We pray this in your son's name. Amen.
S3 (35:02):
Amen.
S2 (35:03):
Thank you so much for that call, dear one. Just
got a few minutes before our next break and I
see a call holding. If we can get to you
on the other side of the break, I want to.
So if you're able to hang on, friend, hang on.
But you talk about the question and we'll cover this
on the other side of the break as well. Just
got a couple of minutes to have you set it up,
but one of the questions that you ask is what
is the ruling motivation in my life? What is the
(35:26):
ruling motive in my life? You just got about a
minute to set us up. Actually, you Actually, you have
less than that. I'm going to go to break now
because I don't want to cut you off. All right,
my friend, I want you to think about that as well.
Do you dare to ask God what is motivating me
to strive? What is motivating me to self-sabotage? Because that
is a very reflective question. Susie Larson here, sitting in
for Chris Brooks, talking to author Pastor Ellen Wright about
(35:48):
the power of shame and how to break free. And
my prayer is, by the end of this show, some
of you are walking free. We'll be back in just
a moment.
S1 (36:17):
We live in a culture whose needs and obstacles to
faith are constantly shifting. Sean McDowell's book apologetics for an
Ever Changing Culture, addresses many current issues and will help
you share and defend the gospel with relevant answers. It's
our thank you gift for supporting equipped this month. We'll
send you a copy with your gift of any amount
(36:39):
to equipped. Just call (888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org. That's
(888)Â 644-4144 or online@radio.org.
S2 (36:59):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson filling in
for Chris today and tomorrow. Today we're talking about shame,
the power of shame, and the importance of breaking free.
Talking to my friend, author and pastor Alan Wright and pastor.
Sometimes there are people in your past who knew you when.
Who keep you stuck in that box of shame and
they won't let you off the hook. And they say
(37:19):
this dictates your future. I've got a friend calling in
today who's dealing with something like that. Virgil, you're on
the air with Pastor Alan. I'd love for him to
just hear your question. and love to hear what pastor
has to say to you.
S6 (37:31):
Good morning and I will try to make this very quick.
I was a rural church pastor at one time and
I was not the perfect husband. My marriage had some
real difficulties and my wife left me and she moved away.
And I tried for over six years to put my
(37:53):
marriage back together, but it was not going to happen.
So we ended up getting divorced. And three years ago
I married a wonderful young Christian woman. And um, then
recently I was asked if I would fill pulpit in
a little rural church in a small community near here,
(38:14):
and I was then asked if I would be the
interim pastor until they could find someone permanent. And some
friends from my past heard what I was doing, and
several of them heard what I was doing, and they
called me and they told me that I should not
be in the pulpit, I should not be teaching. I
should not be taking any leadership roles in the church
(38:36):
because I'm divorced and remarried, and that I might be
able to work with multimedia. But basically I should sit
in the pew and be quiet because God has no
use for me anymore. Wow. And I'm just wondering, how
do I deal with that? Because I know God has
forgiven me. But it's like these well-meaning Christian brothers are
(38:58):
wanting to take the shame of my past and heap
it back onto me.
S2 (39:02):
Wow. Thank you for that call. What do you say, pastor?
S3 (39:04):
Well, first and foremost, as one pastor to another, God
bless you and thank you for wanting to share the
gospel and to preach the gospel and to love people
in his name. And I appreciate that. And God loves that. And, um,
you know, denominations and different traditions have different interpretations of
(39:27):
the scripture. And so you're going to run into that. Right.
And so, um, without kind of getting down, uh, into
every bit of the biblical theology of this, I would
say that the primary thing I would want to to
do in your shoes is to draw near unto the
Lord and his grace in your life that says to you, hey,
(39:51):
these are my gifts, and this is what I have
to offer. And that sometimes, uh, there'll be well-meaning people
who have not seen the changes in our lives or
have not known all the changes in our lives, and
that we don't have to spend our time getting angry
at them or getting focused on them, but that you can,
in a wider sense, within the body of Christ, experience
(40:16):
the kind of, of, uh, affirmation and validation of gifts
and and that you can you can in that sense, brother,
you can not let go of of past failures or
past problems in your life in the sense of like,
I pretend it never happened, but you really can. I
(40:36):
think this is what Grace does. You really can say
his mercy is new every morning, and the scriptures don't
describe primarily how God has come to disqualify us, but
to qualify us for our inheritance in the saints. So
I would just like to bless you that you would
be able to draw near unto the Lord, who himself
(40:57):
is the one who qualifies you, who himself is the
one who empowers you and fills you with His Spirit
and gives you, uh, words to share that will be
life changing to others. So give some space to those
who have theological differences. Draw near to the Lord and
draw deep from the wider sense of the Body of Christ. Um,
(41:19):
who get the full breadth of interpretation of Scripture. All
of that, I think, would be important to you.
S2 (41:24):
Thank you for that call, friend. And it is amazing
how in different seasons of our lives, you know, you
want to be teachable. You want to receive from people,
but those who've earned the right to speak into your life,
and I think he's giving you a real conviction about
is the Lord. Is he leading you? Is his piece
on you? Are there people who are you're accountable to
that are wise and biblical that are inviting you onward?
(41:46):
I think it's great to listen and be paying attention.
Thank you for that, pastor. You know, you've told the story,
and I don't know if it's in your book or
just on one of our past shows of an article
you read about a soccer player who was good at
the game, loved the game, but wanted to quit the
game because of of fear and shame and pressure. Do
you remember the story I'm talking about?
S3 (42:04):
Yes. In fact, it was part of what the Holy
Spirit used to help me first understand what shame was
doing inside of me. It was many, many years ago. Um,
it was after Saddam Hussein had been captured and executed. Um,
but I was reading, uh, about these soccer players from Iraq. And, uh,
(42:28):
they began to come forward and talk about what life
was like as an Iraqi national soccer team. And it
was it was horrible. Their their star player said that
the players would tremble with fear before the game because, uh,
Uday Hussein, Saddam's elder son, would call the the team
(42:50):
and the captain with threats of imprisonment or beatings if
they lost. And the players would cry. They were sometimes flogged, imprisoned,
or put into forced labor if they lost important games.
And they they, the star player said, I wish I
could have quit, but I was. I couldn't because Uday
(43:13):
had threatened to harm my family if I quit. He
said so I would just sit and cry before games
and and he said, I'm playing the game for fear.
He said, I so wanted to play soccer for myself,
for the Iraqi people and for the fun of the game,
not for Uday Hussein. And I was reading this article
(43:34):
about these distant soccer players and how this tyrant had been,
had been threatening them. And and suddenly it was like
the Holy Spirit just spoke to me and said, how
much are you living life for? The joy of playing
the game versus for fear of messing up? Wow. And
that's when I started to begin to realize, I think
(43:56):
that we're either motivated by by a sense of I am,
I am accepted, I am beloved, I have joy, I
have something to give, and I want to make a difference.
So let me loose in the game of life, right? Versus, um,
(44:16):
I must do well and I must be a good person,
and I must perform, and I must do what others
expect of me, or else I will be rejected. And
those those two motivations are hidden down in the heart.
You may or may not be able to see them
from the outside. In fact, we sometimes applaud the people.
(44:37):
They look like that. They're out there playing that soccer
game really hard, not knowing they're driven by an inward tyrant.
And so much of what the gospel does, it's like
an overthrow of that shame tyrant and its release into
a whole new way of being. Because what I've discovered, Susie,
it's important for our listeners, is that when you move
from shame to grace, when you move from from performance,
(45:01):
living into gospel liberation type living, you actually are going
to be better at what you do, and you're going
to actually have a greater zeal for it. You're going
to have the joy of the Lord. Be your strength,
not fear of failure. And so it just makes life abundant.
(45:22):
I think this is so much what Jesus was saying.
I came to set captives free and not so that
then you have no responsibility, but so that you can
do all you're called to do by the exactly the
right motivation. That's the power of grace at work.
S2 (45:37):
Wow. We've run out of time for you to speak
a blessing, but I just want to pray a blessing
since I've got the privilege of seeing the clock. Otherwise,
we'd be running blind here. But if you don't mind,
I'm just going to. Lord, I just pray a blessing
on everybody listening today that they. You'd speak to our
hearts and you would show us what's driving us to strive.
And how it is that you've called us to live free,
unleash creativity and freedom and wholeness and joy when we're
(46:01):
no longer playing not to lose, but we are playing
to win because we have the love of our father.
Thank you, God for your love. Thank you, Jesus, for
obliterating shame. Thank you, God, for setting us free to
be the people you've called us to be. Pastor, uh,
honor you and appreciate you. And I thank you. Thank
you for the time today. What a great conversation.
S3 (46:22):
Susie. Thank you so much. It's always a joy to
be with you.
S2 (46:26):
Appreciate you so much. And friends, if you want to
check out pastor's book on shame free to be yourself,
you can find it on equipped Radio.com. I hope you
found some encouragement here today. If you need information about
any of our guests, find it at equipped Radio.com. And
I'm Susie from all of us equipped. We want to
thank you for listening today. We love you, we appreciate you.
And remember this equipped is a production of Moody Radio,
(46:48):
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. We'll meet you back
here next time.
Well. Hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of
equipped with Chris Brooks! I am so thrilled that you've
joined us today. Why don't you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always, with the lens of the
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He is giving it as a gift so that you
(00:41):
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice! I hope you're having a great day.
I'm going to be away from the program today, but
I want you to join me in welcoming Susie Larson
to the hot seat. Now, many of you know Susie.
(01:03):
She's a best selling author, speaker, radio host. She loves
Jesus and most of all loves helping people draw into
a deeper life in Christ. She's also a wife, a mother,
and a grandmother as well. Susie, thank you for hosting
this edition of equip.
S2 (01:21):
So honored to be back here again, Chris. And we
continue to pray for you and your family. Friends, I
want you to think about this. Did you know that
most people live with a measure of shame? In fact,
I would guess everybody lives with a measure of shame.
And that shame skews your perspective. It kills your creativity
and it steals your joy. And as Christ followers, we've
got to be quick to discern the difference between conviction
(01:43):
and condemnation. Conviction tells me I've done something wrong. Shame
tells me I'm something wrong. I'm the problem and it
can't be fixed. Yet Scripture says there is no condemnation
for those who are in Christ Jesus. So how do
you pick up shame? How do you know if you're
operating in shame? And how do you break free from it?
These are some of the topics we're going to tackle
today with our guest, pastor and author, Alan Wright. He
(02:06):
says that shame is an inner tyrant that has to go.
Pastor is my friend and he oozes blessing. In the
love of God, you're going to love him. And if
there's time at the end of the show, I'm going
to ask Pastor Alan to speak a blessing over you.
You're not going to want to miss it. If you
already know the ways that shame shows up in your life,
give us a call 87756758775483675. Let me tell you about
(02:31):
my guest. We'll get him on the show. Alan writes
lead pastor of an old church in North Carolina. It's
a 110 year old Presbyterian congregation, vibrantly renewed and meeting
in four cities. He's a popular conference speaker. He's the
author of several books, including The Power to Bless Seeing
as Jesus Sees. He hosts a daily 30 minute radio
program that airs nationally on 400 stations. He's known for
(02:52):
empowering people to see their lives in a whole new
light through the gospel message of pure grace. He and
his sweetheart, Ann have two grown children, and when not
writing or preaching, he loves golfing, guitar, the beach, and
making his new grandbaby smile. Pastor Alan, welcome to equipped.
S3 (03:06):
Susie is so good to be with you.
S2 (03:09):
Well, friends need to know that you're a regular guest
on my show, so we're good buds. And this is
content that's very near and dear to my heart. And
you are to me, the expert on breaking free from shame.
So I can't wait to dig in. Let's start here.
How and when did you first discern shame in your
own life?
S3 (03:25):
You know, it's so interesting that I went to seminary, um,
did some doctorate courses in marriage and family therapy, did
clinical pastoral education, and I was probably close to ten
years in the ministry before I even really knew what
it was. I was having lunch with a counselor in
(03:48):
our church, and we were just chatting, and he does
a lot of work in the area of addiction. And
I said, well, what do you think is the root
of addiction? He said, I think it's shame. I said,
what do you what do you think? What does that mean?
He said, well, a sense of not measuring up as
if you got to do something to make yourself more
acceptable in order to be fully loved. And, uh, we
(04:11):
began talking about it at lunch, and when I left,
I thought, um, well, I sure have a lot of
performance driven tendencies. And I began to do some self-inventory
and I said, I think I'll preach on this. And
so I preached a message and I thought about how
the world says, shame on you, and you ought to
(04:33):
be ashamed of yourself. And so I came, and I
preached a message called Shame off you and how Jesus
came to Take the shame off you. And I realized, Susie,
when I was preaching it, this was for me more
than anybody. And I was going to continue. And I
think I preached 14 weeks on this in the mornings,
(04:54):
in the evenings, and something like a revival started happening
at our church. People began finding freedom in ways they
never had before, and I knew it was going to
be a life message for me. And so it has become,
and I just love helping others discover what I discovered
(05:14):
myself about freedom in Christ.
S2 (05:16):
Well, that's what I was going to say, is that
you always go first, pastor. I mean, you're an accomplished author,
an accomplished pastor. But what leads, I think, in your
character is, is the virtue of humility, where you you
go first and you are able to do some reflection
and maybe be a little bit later in the show.
We can get into some of your backstory where God
really showed you the lies you picked up when life
let you down, and we all have those areas of striving.
(05:38):
And in a bit, guys, we're going to talk about
just the different ways she manifests in our lives, because
you might say, oh, I don't deal with shame because
I don't feel bad about myself, but it may show
up in a way that you've never thought of before.
But let's start here, pastor. What is shame and why
is it so damaging?
S3 (05:53):
In the simplest definition, shame is a lie. It is
a deception that I think is formulated in hell, and
it simply says, you don't just make mistakes. There's something
about you that is a mistake. And it's not just
that you are flawed. It's that because you're flawed, you
(06:16):
can't be fully loved and accepted. So it is, in
a sense, just a deception that takes root and usually
becomes what I think the Bible calls a stronghold, a
whole set of beliefs. But it's founded on this as
I am now. I don't measure up, and it's my
(06:36):
job to figure out how to measure up so that
I could be fully accepted and fully loved and fulfilled
in this world.
S2 (06:45):
You know, it's so interesting is the truth is, you know,
as you've said before, too, we are flawed, we're flawed,
yet we're deeply loved. We weren't enough, but Jesus was
more than enough. And that lie takes a turn saying,
because I'm flawed, I can't be loved. And if we
stop there because I think the positivity movement is you're enough,
everything you have is within you and we're not enough.
(07:07):
I mean, we were born in sin, and we we
are sinners who needed a Savior. Thank God we have one.
But somehow we get stuck at the flawed part. And
that's the disqualifier. And then it shows up in so
many different ways. And I thought, it's so fascinating how
you preached on The Prodigal Son, and you said, really,
the shame shows up more in the older brother than
it does the decadent younger brother speak to that, if
(07:29):
you would?
S3 (07:29):
It's probably one of the most important things, if this
is new to our listeners, that any of our listeners,
if you're thinking, well, shame you, because I would have
said that doesn't that's not my story. I thought shame
was about the just the drug addict, or the person
in the gutter, or the person who's given up, and
I was instead I was the I was the the
grade monger, straight-A kid, you know, that was trying to
(07:52):
be perfect. And but in looking at the story we
call the prodigal, but really, it's the story of the
two sons, because the first son who wanders off in
rebellion and riotous living, we know he's not happy with
his life, and we know that there's something that's flawed
inside of him that's thinking wrong. And and we don't
(08:14):
pay as much attention to the older. But the story
is as much about the older. And you can see
in the whole narrative that Jesus gives that when this
younger comes back, he has this authentic. What is a
picture of the conviction of the Holy Spirit? He has
he has a transformation. The text I love it. It
(08:34):
says he came to himself. Like, this is not who
I really am. And his sense of sonship, though it
was still tainted by his thought. I'm not even worthy
to be your son. He comes back. He's. He is.
He is enfolded into the arms of his father, and
he joins in the celebration. But the older brother who
(08:55):
is on the outside never comes in, and he unveils
the condition of his heart when he says, look, I've
slaved for you all these years, Right. So he's just announcing.
I don't see myself as a son who's loved. I
see myself as someone who is working for your approval.
(09:15):
I'm working for something. I'm, I'm I'm I'm slaving for
something here. And the father says, oh, all I have
is yours. What I really want is your fellowship. Come
into the celebration, and the older brother can't come in.
And I realized in so many ways how our performance
based living is really finding its root in shame. That
(09:36):
says unless you are perfect, you're not going to be
wonderfully accepted and you have to always postpone your celebration.
And I did a lot of that, Susie. It was
like nobody in my family. No, my parents didn't say,
you got to be absolutely perfect, or else you're not
going to be loved around here. It's more like we
(09:57):
can just breathe it in in this performance driven culture
of ours. And then as a Christian, we can become
confused and think, okay, now I'm a Christian. I know
I've got the grace of God. But we can even
turn our life with God into something more like a performance.
And so, uncovering the fact that shame could lead one child,
(10:20):
one son towards the pigpens and the prostitutes, and another
towards performance, is very much like saying it can take
you towards rebellion, rebellion, or it can take you towards religion,
but it's the same root.
S2 (10:34):
Wow, think about that friend. It can take you towards
rebellion or towards religion. And I really am asking you
to do some self-reflection today. I think one of the
ways you can discern if there's an area of shame
in your life, if you can finish this sentence, I'm
not worth. I'm not worth marrying. I'm not worth saving.
I'm not worth healing. I'm not worth forgiving. I'm not
worth restoring. You can identify some shame. But another example,
(10:57):
because that's that rebellion or that's the self-sabotage. But then
when you get into religion and performance. I'm striving to prove,
you know. I'm working very hard to prove. Is there
something you've got to prove? Is there a person in
your life that you want to prove wrong? Because they've
always said you'd never be enough? If there's kind of
that over performance or there is this self-sabotage, I'm not
(11:18):
worth it. I challenge you to ask yourself those questions
and just discern, is this something I'm dealing with? Because
we would both venture to guess that most people do.
So as we get ready to go to break, I
want to read this list that we'll unpack on the
other side. Some of the symptoms of shame based thinking.
Are you hypersensitive? If someone addresses something with you in
a very balanced way, they love you. They're not. It's
(11:40):
not an indictment, but you take it personal. There might
be shame. How about self-doubt? How about people pleasing? Fear
of failure. Self-sabotage. If you want to talk, we'd like
to listen. Give us a call. 8775675. I'm Susie Larson,
sitting in for Chris Brooks, talking to author Pastor Alan Wright.
We'll be back in just a moment.
S1 (12:29):
Christianity speaks to every aspect of life, but sometimes we
struggle to connect God's unchanging truth to our changing world.
Apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture by Sean McDowell equips
you with the practical tools for meaningful conversation about faith.
With chapters from 26 leading Christian thinkers, including our own
(12:50):
Chris Brooks. It's our impact gift this month to you
when you support the Ministry of Equipped. Call (888)Â 644-4144 144
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S2 (13:06):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson, filling in
for Chris today and tomorrow. We're talking today about the
power of shame, why it's important to identify it and
remove it from our lives. You know, we'll never be
all God intended us to be if we live with
this lingering sense of shame. You know why? Because shame
is a lie. Jesus defeated sin and shame on the cross.
(13:27):
Does that mean you should never feel bad about your sin?
Absolutely not. Conviction is a core principle in the life
of a believer, and we'll talk about that in a
little bit. But when the Spirit of God convicts, it's
with love. It's a holy invitation to a deeper life
in the spirit. It's about invitation, not condemnation. Today I'm
talking with author and pastor Alan Wright. We're talking about shame,
how to break free, and you can check out his
(13:48):
book if you want to read more. He's written a
lot about it. Free to be yourself. Find the power
to escape your past. Pastor, we've got a friend calling
in today who made some choices in his past that
he's still carrying with him today. But first I want
to give the number. If you want to know how
to break free from shame, we can keep your name anonymous.
Or maybe you've already broken free. You can say I
once was lost, now I'm found. I used to be
(14:09):
buried in that heap of shame. But this is how
I got free. We'd love to hear your story. To (877)Â 548-3675.
We're going to Aaron from Akron, Ohio.
S4 (14:22):
Hi. Um, yes, I'm glad to be here. Um, a
lot of shame in my past. I was convicted 25
years ago, and I got out in 2000 from being
in prison. And I've been out for 15 years, and
I have this weight and just in a total shame,
(14:44):
somewhat paralyzing over me because I've lost my job two
times in the past year because of what happened 25
years ago. And it's pretty crushing anymore.
S2 (14:55):
Oh, wow. Pastor, what would you say to this friend today?
S3 (15:00):
Well, first I'd just say God bless you, friend. That's crushing. And, um.
And we we grieve with you. Um, that is something
to be grieved that, um, you who sounds very much like, uh,
someone who has experienced a lot of transformation and you
have so much to give and so much to offer. Um,
(15:22):
and to lose jobs over, uh, things from the past.
It's very painful. I've. I've had friends and parishioners that
I've walked through in that same journey, and I'm just
so sorry. So that's the first is, um, I grieve
with you. And I think the second thing to say
is that one of the primary sources of shame is, uh,
(15:45):
the the strategy of hell is to focus on anything
in our past, whether it be past sin or, uh, past, uh,
failures or past mistakes and to take our mind back
to that. Um, as if that. Identifies us. And here
(16:06):
is the powerful message of the gospel that liberates us
from shame. You are not defined by your past failures
and successes. You're defined by God. You're defined by the
grace of God and what he's done for you in
Jesus Christ. You are his son. You're his child, and
(16:27):
you are accepted in the beloved. Not partially, but fully.
And no sin of yours, and no past mistake of
yours has any bearing on your relationship with God, and
therefore your identity is founded in who you are in Christ.
And your future is sure and certain. And I think
(16:47):
that therefore you can face this kind of disappointment without, um,
letting your mind go back to both the regret and
the pain and the what ifs, and how it could
have been different, or into bitterness about rejections you might experience.
But instead, I think what the gospel does in liberating
(17:07):
from shame, it can stop that mental recording that's going, wow,
I failed, and now I'm feeling like a failure. It
is really a cliche, but it's really true that our
past failures do not make us a failure. We can't be.
We are in Christ and you are brother, and I
bless you. I bless you that you would be able
(17:28):
to walk in the fullness of that grace.
S2 (17:32):
You know, a friend, before we let you go, I'm
going to. You've already been speaking a blessing over him, pastor. But, um,
you know, he talks about his his jobs that he's
recently lost from mistakes he made 20 years ago. Now,
sometimes people can't deal with, they can't see redemptively. But
sometimes it's the shame, you know, that that that he's
walking under such a weight of shame that that's what's
(17:53):
perpetuating possibly the sabotage and the failure around him. And
so I want you, friend, to believe in new beginnings.
I want you to believe just what pastor said that
that Jesus blood on the cross, that he shed his
victory on the cross is more than enough for you.
That he has more love and grace and one drop
of blood than sin and shame. You have in your past.
(18:16):
His power to save and redeem really makes a public
spectacle of the enemy. That's what Scripture says. So I want,
if you wouldn't mind, pastor and friend Aaron, I want
you to, if you're able, unless you're driving, then don't
do this. But if you're home somewhere, open your hands
in your lap like you're about to receive a gift.
Because this is what Pastor Allen does best. He speaks. Blessing.
(18:37):
Would you speak a blessing of new beginnings over Aaron?
S3 (18:40):
Aaron. While I was speaking, I the image of Joseph, um,
who was despised by his brothers, rejected. Mistreated. To falsely accuse,
put in prison and seemingly forgotten, had a moment where,
in the most unlikely manner he was remembered unto Pharaoh.
(19:05):
He was remembered and then placed into a position of
influence for the purposes of God. And I just feel
faith for you, Aaron, that God who sees in secret
what other people can't. God who does not look upon
the outward things but upon the heart. God who has
(19:26):
plans for us and a future for us and purposes
for us that other people might not be able to see.
He sees you, and I want to bless you with
a sense of readiness in your spirit, such that when
that next tap on your shoulder, that next invitation, that
(19:46):
next offer, that next position comes that you will feel
no bit like an impostor, but like you were made
for this and that. You can walk into it with
fullness of joy, and may it come to pass for
you soon. Yesterday is over, today is here. And God
does have a provision and I bless you in it.
(20:07):
My brother.
S2 (20:08):
I too. Aaron, we love you. We appreciate you. And, uh,
can we get Aaron back on? I just want to
make sure that he is in a place where he
has received Christ, where he is in Christ. Is he
still with us?
S4 (20:21):
I'm still here. I do know him as Lord God. Savior.
S2 (20:24):
There you go. There you go, sir. There you go. We.
You are saved. You've been transferred out of the kingdom
of darkness into the kingdom of God's own. Dear son.
New beginnings are for you. You're not exempt from that.
His blood covers you. Is there any, uh, comments you
want to just feedback from pastor's words over you before
we end this call?
S4 (20:42):
I thank you for that. You just reminded me about Joseph,
which that was actually mentioned too. So that has to
be some kind of confirmation. I do know that this
will end in a testimony to his glory. It just
sucks right now.
S2 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah. Bless you buddy. Well, I pray you can
get Ahold of Alan's book. I don't have any to
give away today, but the power to bless. I think
it will. It'll rock your world in the best way.
But keep looking up, keep moving on and reject rejection
in Jesus name. Thanks for calling today. Wow. Thank you
for that, pastor. I love that I can toss that
to you. And you can. You got a blessing at
the ready. And friends, I'm going to ask him to
(21:17):
speak a blessing over you toward the end of the show.
So hang tight if you would. Some of the symptoms
of shame, hypersensitivity, self-doubt, people pleasing, fear of failure, self-sabotage.
Say a word, if you would, about hypersensitivity.
S3 (21:30):
Well, to be honest, I saw it in my own
life once I started learning about shame and discovered there
was something like a inward tyrant. You know, something that
was driving me. That was I mean, it was a Christian.
I loved the Lord, you know? But why was I
why was I so driven? And I began to really
take an inventory, and I think this is a wonderful
(21:53):
gift from the Holy Spirit. As you were saying at
the outset, Susie, the conviction of the Holy Spirit. He's
the greatest teacher in the world. He loves to show
you a better way. So I began to be more open, uh,
to him. And this was part of what I discovered
is why why am I too sensitive about things? Why?
(22:14):
Why two examples. Why could I preach a sermon? And
maybe even hundreds of people walk out and say, wow,
I was really blessed. Thank you. That really nourishes me.
And then get, uh, one critical email and think more
about the critical email than all of the other good
and maybe even brood over it. Or even more, maybe
some of our listeners could identify. It'd be like in
(22:35):
the early part of my marriage, my wife would be like, uh, honey,
the trash needs to go out. It was part of
my duties. I'm the trash man. And, uh, but I
remember early on, you know, like, she's like, oh, the
trash needs to go out and and finding myself being
kind of upset, like, uh, you know, I'm going to
take it out and, uh, you know, and it's like that,
(22:57):
that thing like, like as if she's saying, um, if
you were a better husband, you would have taken the
trash out. But that's not what she was saying. She
was just saying it needs to go out. So why
was I having these kind of reactions? And see what
shame does is it can make our souls sensitive, hyper sensitive.
Because if you believe that in any measure, my performance
(23:22):
is the way the pathway, the avenue to really being
loved and accepted, then anything that threatens or makes it
feel like you're letting others down, or that your performance
is not up to par, then it sets off some
kind of silent alarm in the soul that says, oh no,
we're at risk. My my acceptance level is at risk. right?
(23:46):
And that can make you angry. It can make you withdrawn.
It can just make you sensitive so your feelings get
hurt by everything. And really, the root of that is shame.
S2 (23:57):
In shame is not static. And it's not isolated or compartmentalized.
Because if you're not dealing with your shame, you're not
only paying a price, but the people around you are
paying a price because you are living in a series
of reactions to your stuff versus response to God. And
that's costly. Shame is costly. And we've just got about
a minute before we take a break. But say a
(24:18):
word about that, that this is not compartmentalized. You might.
You don't carry your own privatized shame. It impacts how
you show up in life.
S3 (24:26):
It impacts every single thing, the way you relate to people,
the way you relate to a spouse, the way you parent,
the way you work. And see, part of the problem
is that sometimes for those of us are hard working, right?
The shame can actually be motivating you, but it's breeding
Reading anxiety and leading towards workaholism. Well then, what does
(24:49):
that do to relationships or shame can manifest in simply
that shamed people shame other people. We don't like the
feeling of shame. It's a horrible feeling and so we'd
like to displace it. We'd like to focus towards someone else.
And sometimes that means that it gets focused on another
(25:11):
family member, or sometimes it gets focused on someone else
at work. Shame is diabolical and it works its way
into all the fabric of life. We must get free.
S2 (25:24):
Amen. Amen. Pastor does a conference called Shame Off You,
and it's based on his book that you can find
information to ordered on equipped radio.org. It's called free to
be yourself. More resources. All show information is at equipped radio.org.
Equipped radio.org. When we come back, we'll talk more about
the symptoms of shame and how to break free. Because
when you break free, you help others get free too.
(25:46):
I'm Susie Larson, sitting in for Chris Brooks. Pastor Allen
Wright is my guest. More great conversation up ahead. This
(26:20):
is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from the
studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson filling in for
Chris today and tomorrow. Today I'm talking with author Pastor
Allen Wright about the power of shame and the invitation
to break free. Question for you if you've been blessed
by this show repeatedly as you listen, would you consider
becoming a partner partner with us? Do you appreciate the
(26:40):
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Do you learn from the interaction with these great Christian
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(27:02):
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(27:23):
or visit us online at equipped radio.org. Talking with pastor
and author Ellen Wright today about the power of shame
and the the ability to break free and pastor. Before
the break, I was talking about how shame is not static.
It's not privatized or compartmentalized. It spills over into our
relationships and even our performances. How we show up. We've
got a caller who's calling in about exactly that. Michelle,
(27:46):
welcome to the show. You're on the air with Pastor Allen.
What's your question for him today?
S5 (27:51):
Well, good afternoon, Mrs. Larson and Pastor Wright. Thank you
for taking my call. Um, do you have any direction
or advice for those of us who live with a
person who is so deeply entrenched with their shame that
it's reflected in their everyday behavior and is destroying those
they love and live with? Um, I'm specifically speaking about
(28:13):
my husband. I do not want to tell him that
my love is based. Only you know that my love
is based on his behavior, or if only he straightens
out or addresses his shame, but he refuses. We've been
to Christian counseling multiple times, and he refuses to do
the work, and I don't, because again, I see that
(28:36):
I'm feeding into it. If I say, honey, I'll only
love you if. But I'm getting to the point where
my mercy and grace is running thin.
S2 (28:46):
That's so hard. Pastor, what do you say?
S3 (28:49):
Well, the first thing is, is we were speaking earlier
about the power of blessing. Um, you know, the the
power of speaking a positive vision over someone's life in faith, um,
with love and with scriptural, uh, rooting to it. That
that's really what blessing is. And you remember, God blessed
(29:12):
Adam and Eve, and then he said, be fruitful and multiply.
He didn't say, be fruitful and multiply, and then I'll
bless you. So with God, blessing precedes transformation and productivity.
And I would first encourage you that no matter what,
even when you're frustrated, you can speak blessing. And this
(29:36):
is to say that it's grace and truth. It is
to say that even when someone we love is. Really
living in a in a destructive way, that the intent
of our words and the tenor of our words is,
that's not who you are. Um, I don't I don't
(29:58):
see that as your life destiny. In other words, in
your heart you're saying I see, uh, more in you
than that. And as you speak it, and I'm telling you,
men are responsive, very responsive to their wife's blessing. It
can take the form of, um. And it can take
the form of. I know that you are able. Uh,
(30:19):
it is able to you're you're able to do this.
It can take the form of getting scripture that can
remind him who he who he is. Um, and of
God's plans for his life. And I'm not talking about
just a whole bunch of constant religious language towards them.
I'm talking about a whole temperament and the way that
(30:40):
you think, and that you can actually craft some, some
spoken verbal blessings that you say, I really wanted him
to hear this. And maybe there's a right moment at
dinner time or sometime when you're having a good conversation,
you're affirming him like that. Because what shame does, especially
in a man's soul, it makes him feel like, well,
(31:03):
I don't measure up. And one option to avoid the
pain of that feeling of not measuring up is to
just not try at all. Yeah, I've known people who
either were going to be a perfectionist or they weren't
going to try at all, and there was nothing in between.
And I've tried to understand, and I realized either way
is a type of avoidance of the pain of shame.
(31:26):
We do not like feeling ashamed. We hate it. It's
a horrible feeling. And so some people mask it with
substances and Services and activities. Some people just mask it by.
I'm not going to really try. I'm not going to
put in the work. I'm not going to do it.
And so I think that part of what you can
do is without affirming sin or affirming laziness or affirming
(31:52):
anything that's contrary to God's Word, you can affirm him.
You can. You can biblically and authentically speak blessing over
his life. And I would do that. Um, this doesn't
mean that you're endorsing any wrong behavior. It just means
that instead of your focus being on how can I
(32:15):
get him to change his bad behaviors, attitudes, or mindsets,
you are proclaiming, uh, a power over him. And I
just believe that there's mystical and graceful, uh, power that
God has put into this principle of blessing. That would
be the primary thing I would advise you to do.
S2 (32:33):
I love that pastor. And you know, my hubby always
says when he mentors young men, men feel that if
there's not a path to a win, they're not going
to try. And many years ago, when he was walking
through a stage of not alcoholism, workaholism, sorry about that.
He's he's just working so much because he felt like
the world was on his shoulders. And I, I was
getting tired, too. And, Michelle, I'm not pretending to say
(32:54):
I've walked through what you're walking through because it's very different.
But I felt like I was managing everything alone because
he felt like everything was on his shoulders. And I
just heard the little whisper, that's not who he is.
That's not what he's called to be. So I started
to put my hand on his shoulder before he'd leave
for work and just say, let me pray a prayer blessing.
And I'd say, Lord, I thank you that my husband
is a mighty man of God. He is a powerful leader.
(33:15):
He loves your word. He loves his family. He works
with excellence. And all those things were true. It's just
that his striving was sort of squelching it. But the
more I prayed it, the more I felt it. The life.
And I could feel that vision like I was speaking
what God would speak if he was standing over him.
And that brought life to him. And I think that's
what you're talking about. Right, pastor?
S3 (33:34):
Yes it is. And I feel like that a lot
of men that what looks like a lack of motivation
is actually anxiety. And just remember, sin came in the world.
The first thing that happened was that Adam and Eve
were afraid. And the first thing that a man did
was he began to shift the blame and cover himself
(33:56):
up and become isolated. And this is what happens. I
see it in the soul of men. But that anxiety
of now I feel like there's something wrong with me.
It really it exhausts us and it puts us at
our worst. So you and your power of blessing, of affirming, um, uh,
(34:21):
your belief that he can be as God has made
him to be is going to be very powerful to him.
S2 (34:28):
And Lord, I pray for Michelle because she needs someone
to bless her too. Um, I know what that is.
To just become weary in well-doing when you see no breakthrough.
So I bless her with with friends and community and
others to speak life over her. I pray you'd strengthen
her and encourage her. Give her wisdom. Give her vision.
Give her God given vision for her husband. And I
pray you'd put truth tellers in his path to speak
(34:49):
life to him as well, and that these walls would
start to crumble. And the true man of God, the
image bearer that he's meant to be, would start to emerge.
And you'd redeem and restore this marriage beyond their wildest dreams.
We pray this in your son's name. Amen.
S3 (35:02):
Amen.
S2 (35:03):
Thank you so much for that call, dear one. Just
got a few minutes before our next break and I
see a call holding. If we can get to you
on the other side of the break, I want to.
So if you're able to hang on, friend, hang on.
But you talk about the question and we'll cover this
on the other side of the break as well. Just
got a couple of minutes to have you set it up,
but one of the questions that you ask is what
is the ruling motivation in my life? What is the
(35:26):
ruling motive in my life? You just got about a
minute to set us up. Actually, you Actually, you have
less than that. I'm going to go to break now
because I don't want to cut you off. All right,
my friend, I want you to think about that as well.
Do you dare to ask God what is motivating me
to strive? What is motivating me to self-sabotage? Because that
is a very reflective question. Susie Larson here, sitting in
for Chris Brooks, talking to author Pastor Ellen Wright about
(35:48):
the power of shame and how to break free. And
my prayer is, by the end of this show, some
of you are walking free. We'll be back in just
a moment.
S1 (36:17):
We live in a culture whose needs and obstacles to
faith are constantly shifting. Sean McDowell's book apologetics for an
Ever Changing Culture, addresses many current issues and will help
you share and defend the gospel with relevant answers. It's
our thank you gift for supporting equipped this month. We'll
send you a copy with your gift of any amount
(36:39):
to equipped. Just call (888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org. That's
(888)Â 644-4144 or online@radio.org.
S2 (36:59):
This is equipped with Chris Brooks coming to you from
the studios of Moody Radio. I'm Susie Larson filling in
for Chris today and tomorrow. Today we're talking about shame,
the power of shame, and the importance of breaking free.
Talking to my friend, author and pastor Alan Wright and pastor.
Sometimes there are people in your past who knew you when.
Who keep you stuck in that box of shame and
they won't let you off the hook. And they say
(37:19):
this dictates your future. I've got a friend calling in
today who's dealing with something like that. Virgil, you're on
the air with Pastor Alan. I'd love for him to
just hear your question. and love to hear what pastor
has to say to you.
S6 (37:31):
Good morning and I will try to make this very quick.
I was a rural church pastor at one time and
I was not the perfect husband. My marriage had some
real difficulties and my wife left me and she moved away.
And I tried for over six years to put my
(37:53):
marriage back together, but it was not going to happen.
So we ended up getting divorced. And three years ago
I married a wonderful young Christian woman. And um, then
recently I was asked if I would fill pulpit in
a little rural church in a small community near here,
(38:14):
and I was then asked if I would be the
interim pastor until they could find someone permanent. And some
friends from my past heard what I was doing, and
several of them heard what I was doing, and they
called me and they told me that I should not
be in the pulpit, I should not be teaching. I
should not be taking any leadership roles in the church
(38:36):
because I'm divorced and remarried, and that I might be
able to work with multimedia. But basically I should sit
in the pew and be quiet because God has no
use for me anymore. Wow. And I'm just wondering, how
do I deal with that? Because I know God has
forgiven me. But it's like these well-meaning Christian brothers are
(38:58):
wanting to take the shame of my past and heap
it back onto me.
S2 (39:02):
Wow. Thank you for that call. What do you say, pastor?
S3 (39:04):
Well, first and foremost, as one pastor to another, God
bless you and thank you for wanting to share the
gospel and to preach the gospel and to love people
in his name. And I appreciate that. And God loves that. And, um,
you know, denominations and different traditions have different interpretations of
(39:27):
the scripture. And so you're going to run into that. Right.
And so, um, without kind of getting down, uh, into
every bit of the biblical theology of this, I would
say that the primary thing I would want to to
do in your shoes is to draw near unto the
Lord and his grace in your life that says to you, hey,
(39:51):
these are my gifts, and this is what I have
to offer. And that sometimes, uh, there'll be well-meaning people
who have not seen the changes in our lives or
have not known all the changes in our lives, and
that we don't have to spend our time getting angry
at them or getting focused on them, but that you can,
in a wider sense, within the body of Christ, experience
(40:16):
the kind of, of, uh, affirmation and validation of gifts
and and that you can you can in that sense, brother,
you can not let go of of past failures or
past problems in your life in the sense of like,
I pretend it never happened, but you really can. I
(40:36):
think this is what Grace does. You really can say
his mercy is new every morning, and the scriptures don't
describe primarily how God has come to disqualify us, but
to qualify us for our inheritance in the saints. So
I would just like to bless you that you would
be able to draw near unto the Lord, who himself
(40:57):
is the one who qualifies you, who himself is the
one who empowers you and fills you with His Spirit
and gives you, uh, words to share that will be
life changing to others. So give some space to those
who have theological differences. Draw near to the Lord and
draw deep from the wider sense of the Body of Christ. Um,
(41:19):
who get the full breadth of interpretation of Scripture. All
of that, I think, would be important to you.
S2 (41:24):
Thank you for that call, friend. And it is amazing
how in different seasons of our lives, you know, you
want to be teachable. You want to receive from people,
but those who've earned the right to speak into your life,
and I think he's giving you a real conviction about
is the Lord. Is he leading you? Is his piece
on you? Are there people who are you're accountable to
that are wise and biblical that are inviting you onward?
(41:46):
I think it's great to listen and be paying attention.
Thank you for that, pastor. You know, you've told the story,
and I don't know if it's in your book or
just on one of our past shows of an article
you read about a soccer player who was good at
the game, loved the game, but wanted to quit the
game because of of fear and shame and pressure. Do
you remember the story I'm talking about?
S3 (42:04):
Yes. In fact, it was part of what the Holy
Spirit used to help me first understand what shame was
doing inside of me. It was many, many years ago. Um,
it was after Saddam Hussein had been captured and executed. Um,
but I was reading, uh, about these soccer players from Iraq. And, uh,
(42:28):
they began to come forward and talk about what life
was like as an Iraqi national soccer team. And it
was it was horrible. Their their star player said that
the players would tremble with fear before the game because, uh,
Uday Hussein, Saddam's elder son, would call the the team
(42:50):
and the captain with threats of imprisonment or beatings if
they lost. And the players would cry. They were sometimes flogged, imprisoned,
or put into forced labor if they lost important games.
And they they, the star player said, I wish I
could have quit, but I was. I couldn't because Uday
(43:13):
had threatened to harm my family if I quit. He
said so I would just sit and cry before games
and and he said, I'm playing the game for fear.
He said, I so wanted to play soccer for myself,
for the Iraqi people and for the fun of the game,
not for Uday Hussein. And I was reading this article
(43:34):
about these distant soccer players and how this tyrant had been,
had been threatening them. And and suddenly it was like
the Holy Spirit just spoke to me and said, how
much are you living life for? The joy of playing
the game versus for fear of messing up? Wow. And
that's when I started to begin to realize, I think
(43:56):
that we're either motivated by by a sense of I am,
I am accepted, I am beloved, I have joy, I
have something to give, and I want to make a difference.
So let me loose in the game of life, right? Versus, um,
(44:16):
I must do well and I must be a good person,
and I must perform, and I must do what others
expect of me, or else I will be rejected. And
those those two motivations are hidden down in the heart.
You may or may not be able to see them
from the outside. In fact, we sometimes applaud the people.
(44:37):
They look like that. They're out there playing that soccer
game really hard, not knowing they're driven by an inward tyrant.
And so much of what the gospel does, it's like
an overthrow of that shame tyrant and its release into
a whole new way of being. Because what I've discovered, Susie,
it's important for our listeners, is that when you move
from shame to grace, when you move from from performance,
(45:01):
living into gospel liberation type living, you actually are going
to be better at what you do, and you're going
to actually have a greater zeal for it. You're going
to have the joy of the Lord. Be your strength,
not fear of failure. And so it just makes life abundant.
(45:22):
I think this is so much what Jesus was saying.
I came to set captives free and not so that
then you have no responsibility, but so that you can
do all you're called to do by the exactly the
right motivation. That's the power of grace at work.
S2 (45:37):
Wow. We've run out of time for you to speak
a blessing, but I just want to pray a blessing
since I've got the privilege of seeing the clock. Otherwise,
we'd be running blind here. But if you don't mind,
I'm just going to. Lord, I just pray a blessing
on everybody listening today that they. You'd speak to our
hearts and you would show us what's driving us to strive.
And how it is that you've called us to live free,
unleash creativity and freedom and wholeness and joy when we're
(46:01):
no longer playing not to lose, but we are playing
to win because we have the love of our father.
Thank you, God for your love. Thank you, Jesus, for
obliterating shame. Thank you, God, for setting us free to
be the people you've called us to be. Pastor, uh,
honor you and appreciate you. And I thank you. Thank
you for the time today. What a great conversation.
S3 (46:22):
Susie. Thank you so much. It's always a joy to
be with you.
S2 (46:26):
Appreciate you so much. And friends, if you want to
check out pastor's book on shame free to be yourself,
you can find it on equipped Radio.com. I hope you
found some encouragement here today. If you need information about
any of our guests, find it at equipped Radio.com. And
I'm Susie from all of us equipped. We want to
thank you for listening today. We love you, we appreciate you.
And remember this equipped is a production of Moody Radio,
(46:48):
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. We'll meet you back
here next time.
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