The Exorcism of VIlma Trujillo

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello, Hello, this is Christina and Carmen and this is
another episode of Spooky Tells, a podcast for all things
spooky true crime in Latin America. And we're back. Bebe.
I was gonna say baby, but then maybe I should
have said babe. I don't know. It's too late now,
yeah it is. It is, you said, wen, And that's

(00:27):
the take we're going with them anyway. Yeah, we're back
after our break. I I'm almost done moving. I have
unearthed my mic. Okay, I think we've yapped about enough.
Yeah that's for a patron. If you are not a patron,
you missed our episode, our yapp session. Okay, So on

(00:49):
today's episode, I have to warn everyone. It is a
tough one. The name. It's like, oh, it's just like
a scary story, and then it's like, no, it's just terrible. Yeah.
Oh you thought this was paranormal. It's actually probably terrible, violence, sexism,
and I don't know what else. Yeah. Yeah, we are

(01:10):
talking about the exorcism of vilmatru Jigo. But before that,
we took first yes, but sorry, no you got excited.
It's okay, I did, I did, But first a listener
story and if you have a story that you want
to send us. There are so many ways to get
to us. You can email a spooky to dos at
gmail dot com. You can DM us on any of
our socials, you can call the Espooky Hotline, or you

(01:31):
can submit it on Discord like this person did. And
I don't know if they wanted their user name shared.
I don't remember, so I might have not copied it down.
But thanks so much for submitting it on Discord. You
know who you are. Yeah, I don't think you included it,
but they know who they are. They do, okay, and
thank you listener. Here goes. I didn't know that I
was gifted, as in I could feel spooky shit until

(01:51):
this event when I was a teenager, and then my
mom told me, oh, yeah, you were super sensitive as
a kid, blah blah. So I guess this incident just
made me realize. We were at a beach resort with
our friends in Indonesia, and from the moment we got there,
my mom was like dawie dabie poe, which is like
excuse me in Tagalog. We also use it when we
think that there are paranormal things around and we're trying

(02:12):
to be respectful. I even made a comment to my
mom telling her that the spirits probably didn't understand her.
But I should have seen that as a sign, because
my also sensitive mom felt something. We spent the day
having fun at the beach, but some weird stuff happened,
like when some of our friends took pictures in the
room where all the girls, including me would sleep in,
they saw skuls and their photos m mmmm, which we

(02:35):
laughed off as the trick of a like girl. Someone
swore that they saw a face in the trees, but
she thinks that she was just tired from all the
swimming and was hallucinating. A common side effect of swimming
is seen. No, a common side effect of fatigue is
hosting because I've been there, but skulls, you were hastening skulls. Okay,

(03:00):
let's pause here for a moment. And basic training. When
we had to do the last like long ass fucking
rock march after they purposely didn't let us sleep, which
is not something they're supposed to do. That's not sure. Yeah, basically,
at least a couple of girls. I remember towards the
end of the march, we were all dying and someone
swore they saw shadows in the trees like it is

(03:22):
very common. Yeah, okay, back to the story. And then
my friend's grandma said, so, I saw step Ember go
into the girls room, but when I ran to him
to ask him why he was checking their room, and
there was nobody there. Oh. We were all kind of
freaked out, especially after the last event, but we all
watched Andrew Lloyd Webber movies to distress and fall asleep. Anyway,

(03:44):
we ended the night on the Phantom of the Opera,
not relevant to story. That's what they wrote. I love that.
I'll mentioned that because I love these details. I will
say their brain works like our brain. Yes, the Phantom
of the Opera not really something distressing. It's kind of
like stressful to watch being tortured. I mean, I love,
I do like the movie, but like it's not a

(04:05):
relaxing watch. Yeah to somen So we all retired to
our beds, expecting a good night's sleep and another fun
day at the beach tomorrow. But nobody in my room
got good sleep. Someone dreamt of demons, my sister heard
knocking on her head rest, only to wake up to
find nobody there. And I woke up to find someone
pulling my blankets. M mmm, and I thought someone was

(04:28):
messing with me, so I turned the light on, expecting
to beret someone. But my blankets were moving and nobody
was pulling it, at least from what I could see.
I know I was awake because I was saying the
Lord's Prayer over and over again until whatever it was
stop pulling my blankets. They needed to make sure they
were dreaming. Yeah, when the coast was clear and I

(04:49):
stopped freaking out, I then went to my sister's bed
and forced her to make space for me to crawl.
She was okay with it because it made her bed
less scary, but she didn't tell me about what she
experienced until morning, so they were both scared because imagine
she went in there to feel better. She's like, Yeah,
someone would knocking here, like all night. When we woke
up the next day and traded stories, we realized that

(05:10):
this resort could actually be haunted. So instead of staying
for two nights, we left after having breakfast. These people
would survived the scary movie. Yes, they would have survived.
Everyone in the resort villa minus my mom and dad,
experienced some spooky shit, but I chucked it up to
my mom, saying Tabi Tabi pole, which I found strange
at first, but I guess the spooks thought she was

(05:31):
being respectful and didn't bother her, even if I thought
the Indonesian ghostis didn't speak a Filipino language, which turns
out they did. What if tai po is universal oversall? Yeah, yeah,
I think they understood the spirit of the gesture behind it. Yes, yeah,
this was the start of my sister and I having
other paranormal experiences since we realized that we were gifted,

(05:53):
which I guess was given because both of our parents
are also sensitive. But this was also the biggest thing
that had happened. So this is a story I decided
to tell. Well, tell us the rest of them. Well,
if you have more, please, and then they just end
the paragraph by saying, anyway, I love hearing your spooky stories. Okay,
and yes, thank you again for saying that in And
if you have any more stories, does send in because

(06:14):
send them our way because you're gifted. So yeah, send
them our away, okay, And we'll take a little break here,
then we'll be back with my very depressing story. And
we're back, and so again, this is the Exorcism of
Wilma Trujillo and I want to say it was a

(06:34):
couple of years back that we did a little mini
series on exorcisms, and we had like one super creepy
exorcism story that was like purely paranormal, and then we
had like another depressing US episode where it was like,
these are exorcisms, but really they're like true crime cases
where these people were killed in the name of exorcisms. Yeah,

(06:54):
and that's the thing about exorcisms, you know, they're dangerous,
not in the spooky sense. Oh no, not in the
spooky sense. Like now, within the Catholic Church today, there's
very specific rules, which MJ went over when we did
that series. These rules go out of the window when
you leave these very strict guidelines of the Catholic Church.

(07:14):
And that's as you say, it doesn't like whenever they're
not approved and very specific, then yeah, that's when things
are like anything's for game to them a little more risky, yes, exactly.
And today's case is one of those. So it's not
a parable case where it's like you're gonna listen to
him like, oh that was scary. No, this is fucking depressing.

(07:36):
This takes place in Nicaragua and If you guess that
there's an evangelical church involved, you guess right. Twenty five
year old Vitma Trujillo Garcia was the mother of two,
a wife, a sister, and a friend. Her husband provided
for the family, but she also made her own money
selling artisanal goods. She sold cheese, banda mayis, and candies.

(07:57):
And her favorite candies were kahitas it goco, which are
coca flakes with caramel and frescos aros. And I believe
these are like flavored or chatnas. Oh that makes sense.
It is a rice drink. Yeah. And she would wake
up before sunrise every day to prepare her goods to
sell to her community. El Corte Sal in the municipality

(08:19):
of Rosita, and there's also a town Rosita and Rosita
and Rosita. The town is four hundred and eighty kilometers
away from the capital of Nicaragua, which is Managua. And
this area has a long history of exploitation by mining companies.

(08:39):
It's very remote, with an unemployment rate of eighty percent.
Oh wow. And Elcrtasal is even more remote than Rosita.
It can hardly be called the pueblo. It doesn't show
up on a map. To reach El Corte Sal from Rosita,
you have to drive rugged roads on a four by

(09:00):
four vehicle for two hours, and then four hours on
a mule, and then another four hours walking through jungles
and mountains. Damn. Yeah, that's how remote this is. There's
no schools there, there's no doctors, no podable water, no

(09:21):
police department, nothing, just you know. Obviously, the people who
live there like their homesteads, small farmland. That reminds me
of the movie that we watched at the remember the
Oh yes, they were in the mountains. Yes, actually that
sounds very like a very remote like village. I guess
you would call it like smaller than Yes, that sounds

(09:42):
very similar, very similar. Because also this that place only
had a church basically, and this place also only has
a church. It's never good, no, So yeah, the homesteads,
which in between those there was like small farmland which
mostly grew beans. Then there was a couple of small
radios for listening to religious services in the area Cortasal

(10:05):
and then an evangelical church, and that evangelical church was
Vision Celestial or Celestial Vision in English. And so this
is the setting in which Vilma finds herself when the
exorcism would take place. But before that happened, things were
mostly fine. By all accounts, Vilma Trujillo was kind, loving,
caring and funny. But when her mom passed away from cancer,

(10:28):
Vilima had a crisis in a faith understandable right, A
common a common occurrence. Yeah. While the rest of her
family remained a Catholic, she and her younger sister converted
into Evangelism and joined the Celestial Vision Church. I don't
want to talk about a specific branch of Christianity, but
it's so common to be preyed upon by the evangelical

(10:52):
church when you are in the moment of crisis. And
I have seen it myself with people that were Catholic beforehand.
Not to say one is better than the other, although
in these times whatever, I think it's fine to say, no,
I'm just kidding, but yeah, I mean I seen it
myself or someone you know, they had a crisis happen,

(11:14):
and I've seen it in real life. Then, of course
the many accounts online and stuff where you know they're
going to through probably the most stressful times of their lives,
and they unfortunately find the imagical church well and we've
said this. I think we've said it more on estorias
are known. It's possible that it has come up and
Spooky tells too though, But like it's not false to

(11:36):
say that the Evangelical Church does prey upon people, but
also it's so important for people to know or to
be aware of their The reason they have grown so
much in Latin America is because of CIA, Because, yeah,
Libertian theology was growing as a movement, which is where
like you know, Catholics like Saint oscarro Meto were really

(11:59):
really preaching about giving to the poor, about the real
things that you're supposed to care about as a religious
Catholic person, like Jesus, right, So that was a growing movement,
and in order to stop that growing movement, they funded
and inserted this evangelical movement into Latin America. And now
in so many places that were formally Catholic, the majority

(12:24):
church is Evangelical. And that's actually also the case here,
which I'm sure Elkotasan was largely Catholic until recently when
half the population had converted to the Emagelical Church. So
when she joined this church, her husband noticed a change.
She started to talk more about demons and how they
were attacking her, something she never used to say. And

(12:44):
you know what, that's such a common thing. I think
they call it spiritual psychosis when it's extreme, but it's
more of a thing in these evangelical and extreme fundamental
Christian spaces than your regular role Catholic Saturday church going. Well,
it's encouraged. It's encouraged, yeah, to say like, oh, I'm
being spiritually attacked and things like that, to the point

(13:07):
where people were making videos in the super Bowl that
it was it was a demonic message from Kendrick Lamar,
a spirituitual attack on Christian America, And I'm like, really,
you're reading into this like of course are wild? Also
like if you look at him, because we also did
the episode on the what was it called oh Laluce Yes,

(13:30):
lal Mundo, Yeah, when there's a whole like YouTube page
that kid or was it Reddit. I don't remember interviews
of people leaving La lucea Mundo because it literally is
a cult like as we talked about in that episode,
But there's people who talk about their experience in La
Luce Mundo and they talk about like having been forced

(13:50):
or encouraged to feel like they were being spiritually overwhelmed
in a certain moment, and to like convulse and shake
to get out of these like hours long sessions of
confessions and things like that. So yeah, this is a
very common common thing. He also felt like she was
starting to pick more fights with him, especially after coming

(14:11):
back home from church services, which was also unlike her.
All of this really rammed up. In February of twenty seventeen,
Vilma began to talk more about demons. She walked into
her sister Madeleine's small house, and while Madelene gave her
the usual high, something was wrong. Milma was walking all wobbly.

(14:31):
She was knocking things over. She didn't look right. Her
white part of her eyes as Clara, looked yellow, and
her lips were super dry. When she finally spoke, she
did not say hi, and her voice was dry and raspy.
She told her sister, Madelene, do you know you won't
give birth to a baby but to a serpent? Yikes.

(14:55):
Then she fell to her knees began to cry and
scream about the devil. Her sister had never seen her
like this. Then Vilman began to hallucinate and talk to herself.
They had already gone to the local cournandero, who gave
her something to drink. They didn't know what this was,
but she seemed the worse since she began to take it.
Her husband tried to ask her to stop drinking it,
but there was no reasoning with her. Her family knew

(15:17):
she needed help, but it would take them a whole
day to reach a doctor, so instead they reached out
to a twenty three year old Juan Rocha, the young
pastor from Celestial Vicion de la Samblea de Dios, the
evangelical church, which he himself had not been a pastor
of for very long. He had grown up in the area,
was the son of a farmer and one of the
more educated members of the community, having graduated fourth grade.

(15:41):
It's unclear when or why he declared himself pastor of
the church, but many went with it because of his education,
so he agreed to go see her. He arrived to her
home on the fifteenth of February of twenty seventeen and said,
Milimasta and de Moniela vilma sita se liberada del mar
klaiechocao vima is possessed. She needs to be freed from

(16:04):
the evil that has caused her to fall into sin.
He and his followers invited Vilma to follow them to
a Templo Vistan. Vilma and her family were desperate, and
they accepted. They walked for an hour along muddy paths
until they reached the church on a secluded hillside. I'm
just thinking of that movie you watched. Honestly, I wish
I could remember the name of the movie. I know

(16:25):
me too. I only remember the Hour of Blood, and
I remember the name of the other one. Shaman is
the movie we're talking about, and I think if you
watch it, you can get an idea of what this
place looks like, even though Shaman takes place in Peru.
But you talked about mountains in jungle, right like that
they had to walk through sa Yes, yes, that's why
it's very much, very similar. Yeah. Vilma entered Juandrocha's small

(16:50):
home in front of the church and recognized the others
Pedro Jose, the young pastor's brother, Domasa, their sister, and
Franklin Hadkin, Domasa's husband, all members and leaders within the
small evangelical church. Bilma's father, Catalino, asked if he could
stay with his sister Pajuan Rocha told her no, to
go home and pray that's where he would be of service.

(17:12):
They closed the door and tied her to a bed.
Then four days they deprived her of food and water
while the four recided prayers. Just second, when you're when
you're worthholding food and like water from someone that's not
that's torture, that's not like what rules are They're just
making everything up as they go. They're making it up
as they go. Yeah. Yeah. Throughout those days, Wilma's family

(17:35):
tried knocking to see her, but they would be turned away,
always told the same thing, she's not yet cured. After
five days of being tied alone, away from her family,
without food or water or her clothes, Vilma rebeled she
had gone willingly, but the demons she had been experiencing
were nothing compared to this. She's like, I'd rather be
in the moniella. Honestly, she began to yell, this can't

(17:58):
be my destiny. I'm hungry, I'm cold. This is not
a cure, this is a punishment. On the fifth night,
once the young pastor had left and she was on
her own in the small room, she drank herself as
far as her restraints would let her. Then with her
feet she reached for a machette that was in the
corner of the room. She cut the ropes off, grabbed
the machette and ran out. She was swinging it in

(18:19):
the air, telling them no more and to let her free.
But the congregation was stronger than her and she was outnumbered.
They overpowered her, and now they were sure she was possessed.
That's like their proof. Now, how is that? Your response, like,
you're not feeding her, you're not, you're not, You're repressing
her in the most inhumane way. Of course, she's gonna

(18:41):
fucking swing a machetta at you. Anyone would. Yeah, yeah,
if this is how she reacted to help from God,
of course she was possessed. Ridiculous very. As the men
dragged her back to the room, the pastor stood next
to her and whispered, magnana magna tolsto tomorrow, God will
save you. Tomorrow, this will all be over. Oh my god,

(19:02):
he's planning a killer, isn't he. That's so ominous, Like
what an honest thing to say? Sounds like a threat,
That doesn't sound like what that's supposed to be. Comfort
to confirming. Wow, I can't comforting. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah,
I'm forgetting how to talk. Wow. Yeah, we don't record
for two weeks. You know what. It was all the
fatigue from moving and then I got sick immediately after.

(19:26):
I see it. I see it, yeah, be m. I
had no idea what the pastor was referring to, but
it turns out that Juan Da had a divine revelation
on the sixth night. He told the congregation. This divine revelation,
the demons could be expelled through the flames. She will

(19:46):
only be free from this evil if we purify her
in fire. What the fuck? That's again, They're just like
making shit up as they go. I'm trying to think
of the most like depraved shit, Like that's crazy, that's
what happens in these bass. Yes, absolutely don't have compassion
for her, he said, because this is the devil we're

(20:06):
talking about. She must burn from toes to head. She
will die, but she will resussitate free from her torment.
I'm sorry, what the hell? Yeah, And this is like
the case that we talked about, you know, when we
did those yeah series of episodes, but like there was
that crazy not sorry, crazy that's not correct. There was

(20:28):
that lady who was a club I'm finding for my
life to not say crazy episode. I'm like, this is
fucking crazy. It's hard, it's hard. Yeah. But this lady
who you know, was not really she was like a
co leader basically, but she was like exercising a boy
and then like, oh, he'll risk us to state, he'll
resusitate like after we're done, and no, they just like

(20:49):
they killed him like he of course he didn't come
back to life, like please. It also reminds me if
you're in the US. I don't remember the state, probably
somewhere in the midwest South, if I'm being honest, but
I don't remember. In Texas, I don't remember, but there
was this evangelical church that some members had their daughter
I think it was, that died and then the pastor

(21:12):
or whoever some leader kept like swearing like they had
had some vision from God that she would come back
to life and they just need to pray over her. Yeah,
And they prayed over her for I don't know how long,
and obviously she didn't come back to life, of course,
and I don't remember what the outcome like if there was,
I'm assuming there was some kind of criminal proceedings. That's
why we learned about this later. But I don't remember

(21:34):
exactly what happened after. Okay, back to the story. He
ordered members to gather wood for the fire. In the meantime,
Pedro Rocha and Franklin had been tied her down to
a guava tree next to the fire pit that was
being built. The members worked on this over the next
four hours. Vilma had to watch this fire grow until

(21:56):
maybe out of losing patients or who knows what, she
was thrown into the flames by the paser. Oh my god. Well,
to this day, it's not clear she was pushed into
the fire or if the fire had grown so much
that it engulfed her. Either way, horrible. Yeah. Kuandrocha claims
that Vilma levitated herself and fell into the fire. Juan,

(22:19):
I'm gonna need you to shut the fuck up. No
Ena will fite you personally, doesn't watch that she burned
her fifteen year old sister, who had been there the
whole time because she was a member of the church too.
Could hear as her sister cried out again and again,
I'm going to die. I'm going to die. She had

(22:40):
been inside the church praying, and though maybe she smelled
the fire, she had no idea that her sister was
going to be burned alive. She listened in shock and
frozen fear as the leaders of her church repeatedly yelled
that her sister would soon resurrect free from the demons.
She managed to break free from the congregation and ran
to her tia Anhela's house an hour away. Right, that's wild.

(23:11):
Once she got to her tas she cried out, they
burned her. They burned her. Her father, Catalino, her Thea,
and her cousin all followed her back to the church
as fast as he could. It was midday. By the
time they had arrived. The last of the flames were
still flickering, and they found Vilma behind the church, naked
and with burns covering eighty percent of her body. She's

(23:32):
so alive. Wow. She asked for water. Catalino and his
nephew carried Vilma in their arms back to her ta
Anhila's house, again an hour away. Oh my gosh. There
they called for more family members, cousins, siblings, and uncles.
Together they made a stretcher from my hammock and two
poles as they put this together, Vilma reassured her crying

(23:55):
five year old son. She told him los pastorsitos me
about these on the little pastors baptized me. Oh my god,
I can't even imagine the trauma of this five year old.
And also then in your brain cementing these two things together,

(24:16):
your burned mother and baptism, yeap, oh my god. Also
I forgot to put it in the notes. But these
people waited basically because like her husband, she has two kids, right,
one is the five year old, and then there's a
younger daughter with her current husband. They waited until he

(24:37):
and the younger daughter were gone visiting his mom because
it was helping his mom get better. And they basically
waited for that to happen to like do the worst
of what they did. Oh wow, like it was when
he was gone, that was gone. Let burn her, Oh
my god. Once they made the stretcher, the family members

(25:00):
took turns carrying her for twelve hours through rivers, muddy paths,
and the rainforests. When they finally reached the hospital in Rosita,
the doctors were shocked at the state of Vilma's body.
They had to send her to the main hospital in Managua,
but first she had to be taken to an airport
twenty miles away from Rosita and then flown to the capitol. Sadly,

(25:22):
by the time she arrived it was too late. Of course,
all the time in the distance that they had to
travel just to get there, and then she still needed more.
The fact that she remained alive for so long after
is it's wild yeah. Vilma Trujillo died on February twenty eight,

(25:42):
twenty seventeen, from pulmonary edema because of the swelling from
the burns. Her lungs were filling with blood, and she
also had multiple organ failure. It's terrible, yeah. After her death,
reports flooded into Rosita, where Juan Rocha and his brother
were sitting in the back of a pickup truck. They

(26:02):
were now in police custody. A reporter asked, why did
you burn her? But Juandro insisted that the spirit lifted
her up and she fell into the fire. While ju
maintained this version of events, his brother in law, Franklin
had Kin, also in police custody, claimed that Vilma had
committed an error, that she had a life partner and
she committed a mistake with another man. So is Franklin

(26:25):
saying that Vilma cheated on her partner and that's why
she became demonic. Yes, that's why she became possessed.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
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(27:04):
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Speaker 3 (27:16):
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Speaker 2 (27:29):
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Speaker 3 (27:41):
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(28:06):
and the man will okay, then.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
Come young roll and for com comment yeah yeah you
know and American themn MA man, yeah young okay.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
The number and.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Come frankly Franklin. Franklin, put y you are by some.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
To mar.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
Does a person.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Basically they're saying what we just said in Spanish. Okay.
In reality, it's likely that Vilma had been raped by
a man. This is all lleged, but could be what
led to her mental breakdown, because this is alleged. It
was never investigated, but there were rumors, but no one
will ever know what was disturbing Vilma a week before

(29:30):
her gruesome murder. The rumors, which can't be proven now,
were that she had been drugged and raped by the
local curandero, the very same one who was giving her
the drink that her family believed was making her crazy,
and that the church took this rape as adultery. Juandrocha Pedro,
Jose Tomasa, Franklin Harkin, and the fifth congregation member, Esneeda

(29:53):
Orosco were all charged with various things, including kidnapping and murder.
The trial was held in Mana, and those who attended
stated none of the five looked remorseful. Of course they didn't.
Of course, God was on their side, according to them, exactly, Oh,
that reminds me of this inferiiting phrase I read and
the flower traveled in my blood? What I was or

(30:18):
was someone else? It was either Videla or one of
the other top military people. During one of their trials,
said basically that they felt no remorse because God was
on their side. Basically, it's what they said. Of course.
On May ninth, the judge sentenced all five was thirty
to thirty six years, stating they acted with treachery and

(30:41):
abuse of confidence. The Assembly of God church has stated
they did not have a pastor named Juandrocha and that
the media began to use the word pastor, but Juan
was more of a lay preacher, and although the Vision
Telestian Church in El Cortstal was part of the Assemblies
of God, it was not an organized church in Morelane,
a potential future church, so clearly trying to distance themselves

(31:04):
from the situation, trying to be like, oh no, that
wasn't a real preacher of ours, a real pastor of ours,
like it wasn't our fault, and then trying to be
like that wasn't even like a real like partner of
ours or church of ours. It was like they were
en an upcoming affiliate or something like that. Yeah. When
the superintendent of the Assemblies of God in Nicaragua was

(31:25):
questioned by journalist Vicki Baker, he lost his patients and
snapped while he said, in over one hundred years, nothing
like this has happened before, and why don't you mention
the good things we do, like build houses and run
schools for the death I'm sure they had some other issue,
maybe nothing to this extent, but I'm sure they're not
of no, no, no, maybe nothing as this public in

(31:45):
this specific town. But these kind of cases are more
than common within churches that are affiliated with the evangelical
or a evangelical church. So also, the same superintendent has
expressed sympathy for the five perpetrators and that their sentences

(32:07):
are too long. They burned a woman what do you mean, yeah, yeah,
before and that they burned her after starving her, starving
her and keeping water from her tied for five days.
Oh my god, he said, In my opinion, this young
person might have thrown herself into the fire, because I

(32:29):
don't believe that five people who are praying are going
to all agree to draw someone into a fire. Well,
then you're a dumb bitch. This is the superintendent of
the Assemblies of God churches in Nicaragua. Mm hmmm. He
even went on to say that there's plenty of evidence
that that crazy woman did it to herself. Bitch, I
will fight you too. What is the superintendent's name here?

(32:53):
It's so I'm gonna put our sources in the show notes.
But this is from bayez Oh. I get so much
info from them, yes, but also the BBC also put
it on there. So it's this article this big, it's
like a very long piece on BBC. Well you'll see

(33:14):
the lean it's BBC dot CO dot UK and then
it says nikaiwa exorcism. But this superintendent to name is
Raphael Arista, that is the superintendent of the Assemblies of
God in Nicaragua, who set all this nonsense. Although in

(33:34):
the same article, if you look into it, you'll see
that while that's like the position of like the main
guy of this church, there was another pastor who where
did it go? Hold on? Okay? Because yeah, after she
this went public, there was protests and they were throwing
like rocks at the Church of Assemblies, Church of the

(33:56):
Assemblies of God in Rosita, and they were throwing and
stuff in there, and the pastor there, his name is Sabakarees,
and he was like, how did one of them not
step back and say this is not right? Yes? And
he he also concedes that Vima is likely to have

(34:16):
been mentally ill rather than controlled by the devil, and
that there was no need for an exorcism. So it
seems that like at least someone within this church is
not terrible. Yeah. Wow. While the evangelical church in Nicaragua
has tried to blame Vima herself for her murder, human

(34:37):
rights activists in the country have made sure to call
this what it was, not just murder but femicide. Muriel Lutierez,
who works for a human rights organization in Rosita, has
stated that Evilma had been a man, Juan Rocha would
not have felt entitled to do what he had done,
And I agree because really it's right. Technically, the official
what falls undro a femicide is like a woman murdered

(34:59):
by someone an intimate in an intimate relationship with her.
But to activists in the country, they're like, even though
that doesn't fully apply, it kind of does because it's
kind of still a famoside because this would have never
happened to a man. Yeah. And also the unconfirmed reason

(35:20):
that they felt they needed to do this is because
supposedly she stepped out of the marriage. In reality, most
likely she was assaulted and to them, that was her
sin that made her possess which then not entitled them,
but like that was their reason, that was their reason. Yeah. Also,

(35:40):
I read another interview and I think it's I don't
think I saved it, but there was an interview in
Spanish with the husband and he was like, I feel
like the pastor was like the cause of the fights
that Vitamam was coming home and starting to pick fights
with her husband, and the husband was like very wary
of juandrochat if he was trying to drive awedge between

(36:03):
them or yes, for nefarious purposes. I'm like, maybe hinting
at this pastor was like trying to get with Villema
and then when it didn't work, or maybe this was
his chance to cure her and then you know who
knows honestly, Yeah, it's not far fetched. I don't think No,
I don't think so. And yeah, that was that was

(36:25):
the case. Wow, that was intense. It was intense. And
it's not in like our notes anywhere, but religious violence
or violence toward women in the name of religion has
like gotten a lot worse in recent years in Nikarawa
because it really Yeah, it's this in the same article

(36:47):
I was reading, So where is this? Yeah, somewhere in
that article it says that it has grown, but I'm
going to read this section here. In twenty fourteen came
a further setback for women's rights campaigners. President Daniel Ortega
issued a decree widening the role of community groups and

(37:09):
resolving domestic disputes, making it even more difficult for women
to press criminal charges. Overall, the message seems clear, deal
with it or get your community to deal with it.
The country's sand Nistan government has become increasingly religious since
its revolutionary days, and since that has been happening, the

(37:31):
more laws that have passed, like abortion take it away
women's rights, and then the more like violence towards women
has grown, and it's an issue like femicides or issue
all over the world, but like Latin America also, and
so that is kind of informing this whole case, and
it's important, I feel to note that that is the

(37:53):
context of all this, which is a lot like again,
so many I listened to like a couple other episodes
talking about this, and these episodes are like fifteen minutes
long because they're not even like the one is exploring
the context in which like this violence is normalized and okay, right,
like this violence toward women which Vima is a victim of,

(38:17):
mm hmm. It's that in a lot of these places
doesn't even count as violence because it's like it's just
so normal. Yeah, and that's it. That's all I wanted
to say. My voice is giving up. Oh and yeah,
and then like even the whole evangelical aspect of this,
like it has a long tie with colonization, as does

(38:39):
violence against women. So yeah, and then another, I mean
we already talked a little bit about the CIA pushing
right vangelical church in Latin America.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
But.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Evangelical or like more, I mean Mormon falls onto evangelical
right Mormonism, the Mormon tent. They're like like a branch Christianity. Okay,
these form these churches that send people into these remote areas.
What is that called pratell ties or something like that?
Howl long, Yeah, I never know how to pronounce. They

(39:15):
go and they have their little missions and missionaries.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
That is akin to modern day colonization. And I highly
suggest everyone reads, not only because we love her, but
because it's such an important book. But for brown girls,
oh sorry, really quick, it's called Procella tides when they
go and try to convert into their religion. The book

(39:41):
is called Four Brown Girls with Sharp Bitges and Tender Hearts. Yes,
and Tender Hearts by so her book, she talks about
she is from Nicarawa, and she talks about how like
her first memories are these like missionaries coming and there's
some of them like that did whatever good they were
there to do without taking pictures, without trying to convert anyone,

(40:04):
And those were like that, so real good people. But
then there was the people who went and they they
gave these things but demanded something in return, and many
times that was photo ops that would look good back home.
But also they demanded their faith, they demanded their conversion.
And then maybe when you know, that's when things can

(40:28):
get a little dangerous because these are very controlling, high
control organizations that are very sexist. Yeah, so that's all that,
I think all that informs this case. Yeah, and everyone
should read that book because she talks about it in

(40:49):
the first free chapters. It's amazing it is, and it's
also yeah, it's just amazing. So is theas and Prima's
unknowing and loving the Woman who raised us. Yes, another
amazing book. But yeah, all these things you know, ti
in when looking at something as horrible as what happened
to Villa Matriquillo, that which didn't need to happen That's

(41:11):
why I feel like I'm not picky because you know,
you did the true crime notes, but I no, But
I present to you a case and then you tell me, no,
this has no like, this is not this is just sensational,
like this isn't Yeah, there's nothing behind this. So I
am picky about what because for me, I feel like
true crime doesn't exist on its own, in its own

(41:34):
vacuum with nothing else infecting it, right, it exists in
the world of sexism, of racism, of all the isms. Basically. Yeah,
And that's why, like in the beginning, I think maybe
I did pick like these more, which is whine you're
living you learn you know what? I yes, exactly, thank you,
But yeah, I and even if it's not specifically having

(41:55):
to do that, like those things are always in our minds.
So like, I feel like we always make a point
to talk about those aspects when it comes to a
true crime case because I feel like you can't talk
about just the crime in the perpetrator and the victim
by itself. Like we live in society. That's I say,
things in that society, yeah, are always affecting what is happening,

(42:19):
even when it comes to the perpetrators of violence. Oh yeah,
which no one wants to hear, but whatever. Yeah, yeah,
but yeah, I guess it's a place to wrap up
and move on to a recommendation. Yes, let's take a
little break here and then we'll come back with spooky
recommendations and we're back. Do you want to go first? Yeah?

(42:47):
I finally watched the show Laid on Peacock And is
this spooky?

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Sort of?

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Because well, tell me, I only watched one episode. Oh really, okay,
well the show I think it involves a curse, so
that's why it's yes, spooky, you're right, you're right. Yeah,
So I forgot everyone's characters named already, but the main character, yeah,
I don't remember anyone's names. Basically, she finds out that

(43:19):
anyone that she has slept with or hooked up with
in any sexual way is dying. They're dying in the
order that she has hooked up with them, and then
her and her best friend you know, are trying to
solve this and figure out what's going on. That's basically
what it's about. But it's also about their friendship. And
our main character is a horrible person, honestly. Yeah, And

(43:40):
I love watching shows about horrible people. That's true, we
both do. She's so selfish, and you know what, you
know why I think I like shows like that because
deep down, that's the way that I am, and I
had to fight every day to not be like that.
It's the truth. I'm just gonna admit it. No, yeah, same, yeah, yeah,
when it comes to every day's a battle to be

(44:01):
a decent person because deep down I am horrible. Yes, yeah,
it is my true nature. And the main character is
truly horrible, and so she has hurt a lot of people,
and so it's also her confronting herself and her behaviors.

(44:22):
I love when people are forced to confront their behaviors.
She literally is because people are dying. Yeah, people are
dying him. But it's funny. It was good. I liked it.
I recommend it. I gotta finish watching it. Yeah, but
there's only one season, and I'm hoping it's not one
of those times where they don't do a second season.
I forgot to check when what year came out, because

(44:42):
I'm like, how much time has passed in the first season.
I really no, that doesn't give me hope because I
wanted to see the rest because at the end because
she is strange from her dad, and at the end,
her dad comes to her and he's like, this happened
to me too, And I think that is a reason.
Sorry spoilers, I think that's a reason why he became

(45:06):
a strained from her because her mom died. Because everyone
that the dad has the same thing happened to him.
And so I'm like, I would love to see what's next,
but I don't know if there's gonna be a second
I don't know. Yeah, but it was a good show.
I think I think our listeners would enjoy it because
there's also like a true true crime aspect to it
where the best friend is upsessed with true crime. Okay, okay,

(45:29):
I'll have to check this out finish like it. Yeah, yeah,
I have a speaking recommendation, which oh my god, did
I already recommend it The Buffalo Hunter Hunter. You talked
about it, but you hadn't finished reading it a yet
or listening to it. Okay, Oh yeah, because Susta it

(45:50):
was the book club pick. But then I had to
miss it because I was in the middle, in the
midst of moving, in the trenches of moving, so I
didn't get to attend the book club meeting. But I
did finish the book, but I reading Retreat and then
I also sent Save You're Sorry the podcast they share
medias I listened to your recommendation. I sent it to

(46:11):
them as well. Yeah again, and I needed to tell
everyone about the book. But yes, the book is amazing. First,
I think we might have said it here or when
we talked about Sinners on Patreon with MJ. But vampires
are having their moment, and yes that is a recession indicator. Yeah,
and the Buffalo Hunter Hunter is one of my new

(46:32):
favorite vampire media. I can't wait to reading. You will
on my list. You will absolutely love it, you know.
And I loved his other book. The only other one
I've listened to is The Only Good Indians and that
was amazing. That's on my TVR as well. I haven't
read it, but I did the audiobook, not the book.
The audiobook production amazing.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Well.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
I did the same for The Only Good Indians, and
I've heard I feel I feel like a lot of
people either love Steep what is it, Stephen Graham, Jon Yes,
or they hate them or they hate them. And I'm
in the camp of love. But most people that don't
like to read his books. They like listening to them.
So interesting. Interesting, said, but yeah, the audiobook is so good.

(47:19):
It follows. So there's three timelines, well, sort of three perspectives.
I think I'm about to read it because I have
a hard time listening. Well, it's easy, I think. I
think it's easier because they're different narrators. Oh okay, then yeah,
I could do it. It follows. So it's a pastor, like,
it's in twenty twelve. I want to say it's twenty fourteen. No,

(47:42):
it is twenty twelve. The present day timeline in twenty
twelve is the she's a professor. She is the ends
up being a descendant of the nineteen twelve timeline, which
is a pastor. I love a timeline. Yes, I love
family members in different generations. Yeah, one hundred years apart.
I love that. Yeah. And so her dissertation is trying

(48:05):
to transcribe this journal of her descendant in nineteen twelve.
I'm sorry to keep cutting you off. I feel like,
what is the new book? Why did I want to
say the enchanted? And I'm like, I know that's wrong.
Close though, I feel like the Bewitching is going to
be kind of like this because I know it's like

(48:27):
has those academia by vibes. It does have academic vibes
like you said, And there is timeline also generations fectives. Yeah,
so okay, and you know we are suckers for different timelines,
yes we are. And so yeah, that's why this book
was amazing already, so that there's that famidle connection. But

(48:47):
also it's in the midst of these atrocities that happened
in nineteen two, all these massacres, and again there's a
vampire and basically the pastor is worse to reckon with
his past, and there's like a twist in the end
that I was just I was floored. Oh my god,

(49:11):
it's so good, Like I want you to finish. I
want you to so we can yap about it. Yes, okay,
maybe i'll listen to it after I well, I'm listening
to Cackle by Rachel Harrison and then my hold for
every One is gone from here. Oh yeah, I know
that one. Yeah, came through nineteen three of the two
I need to listen to and then okay, yes we

(49:33):
need to yap about it. I missed the Soustal Book
Club discussion, so I need to talk about it somewhere
I need It's like, I'm frowding at the mouth. You
need to discuss this, need to discuss the recap debrief, Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Also another thing we need to yap about is sibling
horror media that falls under sibling horror for Patreon. So

(49:57):
I've been on our list begging you to do this
for like a week. But again, I was in the
middle of movie and it was impossible. Yeah, it was
my fault. We could in and I was like, hey,
we need to do this, and I was like, okay,
she just don't have remikes on Earth, but okay, yeah,
I know, I know. Also, yeah, I had plans. I
also had a plan for another Patreon episode that we
were going to record and then maybe next week. Either way,

(50:18):
these will be up on Patreon eventually, you know. Yeah,
So yeah, that's it for this episode. I think, all right, yeah,
I don't know, even if you're not in the Philippines,
say tabee tabi poe when you're entering any space and
you'll be good. I think it'll protect you anywhere. M

(50:38):
all right, stay spooky and we'll catch everyone next time.
Bye Bye. S. Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen.
Produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and
with the help of Don Shout Out Don. If you're
enjoying the podcast considerably, gonna say five star review, We
would really appreciate it. If you don't want to live
a five star review, just don't leave a review. But

(50:59):
don't even even lower than that, please, I'm just kidding.
You can reach out to the podcast at a spooktos
at gmail dot com. You can go to our website
at pookitos dot com and fill out the contact form.
If you want to support the podcast, you can join
our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes.
Eight dollar members get an exclusive keychain. It's super cool.
I got new ones and these ones are huge. And

(51:22):
if you want to support but you can or don't
want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can
also get some merch. You can find surets essay, a
spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love
the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no Mamus
shirt which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options,
crap TOMPs, sweaters. It's almost wetter weather. We're nearing a

(51:44):
Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies, you're gonna need them.
If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too.
You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's
the best support that you can give us, like I
always say in our ad break and yeah, if you
like history, you can follow Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carmen other podcast,
and you can find as Spooky Tells on all of
our socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in

(52:06):
the show notes and we appreciate every single listen. Thank
you so much, Stay a Spooky

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