The Pereira Poltergeist and Triple Murder in Ecuador

The Pereira family of Jaboticabal, Brazil, was spending a quiet evening at home in December 1965 when their lives changed forever. Their daughter Maria seemed to be haunted by an entity. In this episode, Carmen talks about the Pereira poltergeist, from Brazil and Cristina discusses a triple murder that shook the country of Ecuador in 2023.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, this is Christina, this is Carmen. So yeah, if
you're not on Patreon, you are not hearing our yapping
before the topic, because we just yapped about Carmen's vacation
and me turning into a social butterfly in Seattle or
trying to attempting to Mariposa, Seattle. Yes, Seattle, and so yeah,

(00:28):
we yapped a little bit and now we're going to
start the topic and you can get on Patreon. The
lowest tier gets access to that, so bam, all right, now, yes,
on today's episode, we have a story from Brazil and
then a true crime case that's very depressing from Ecuador.
And normally we would have a listener story, but I

(00:49):
didn't get one ready. I didn't look for it. Oh okay, okay, no,
but if you have stories that you want us to read,
just email Espotos at gmail dot com. You can dam
out on any of the socials. You can leave it
in a comment on one of the many tiktoks, like
you know, there's options, but yeah, get them to us.
Other than that, Carmen, are you ready for the paranormal case?

(01:12):
From where? And the way? Is it Brazil or Argentina? Brazil? Oh?
Thank you. I don't know why suddenly the Argentina. We
had a UFO recently case in Arentena, didn't we true,
Yes we did. Okay, So this case is about a
poultry geist in Carbo Ticabal, Brazil. The Pereeda family of

(01:34):
Habbo Ticabal, Brazil, was spending a quiet evening at home
in December nineteen sixty five when their lives changed forever.
The family, who lived about two hundred miles from Sauth Paulo,
were devoted Catholics who spent their time working or attending
church like a good Catholic family. Yes, they lived in

(01:54):
a small, beautiful community where everyone knew everyone, which led
the family to feel a false sense of peace would
soon be taken away. Don't don't, don't thank you. I
was going to do that. The evening everything changed. The
family was sitting in their living room when large bricks
mysteriously materialized and fell to the ground. Because they were

(02:16):
so religious, the family did not jump to conclusions and
instead figured neighborhood kids had been playing a prank on them,
using similar bricks that had been lying outside their home. Okay,
natural conclusion to come to, Yeah, yeah, I think so.
But as the days went by, the activity increased, and
the family was then able to identify any suspected pranksters.

(02:39):
The block of bricks outside the home also remained untouched,
making it hard for the family to ignore what was happening,
so the family called on the local police for help.
When police arrived to the home, they didn't notice strange
activity and wondered why they were even there. But soon
one brick, and then many others began to materialize out
of thin air and fly around the house. Oh my god,

(03:01):
with the police there, mm hmm. A heavy brick is
then slammed into an officer's head, causing blood to gush everywhere.
Oh my god, not a breaking, not a paranormal bricking
and and acab pultruygeist. Yes, wow. Petrified the officers and

(03:22):
the family ran out of the house. Police were in
shock and things looked bleak for the family, who were
told by police there weren't much they could do since
it seemed to be a spiritual attack. They're like, that's
not our department, bud, We're not Ghostbusters Los No. Some
almost ghostbusters but in Brazilian. Yeah, they don't speak Spanish.

(03:45):
We're sorry for you. Sorry that was in Ura. That
wasn't even that was in Yurka, okay, where I was?
I feeling defeated, The family sought out the help of
a local priest. When the priest arrived at the home,
he examined Maria for a few minutes before concluding that
Maria needed an exorcism. Of course, but as soon as

(04:08):
the exorcism began, it also came to an end. And
did it as quickly as it started? Okay. Yeah, And
after a cold and strong wind entered the home and
a dark shadow consumed the room while loud thumbs were
heard around the house, Maria began to convulse and painful
scratches appeared on her body. Oh my god. Yeah, so

(04:29):
that's why it ended so quick, because the priest quickly
stopped the exorcism. You know what, he wasn't strong enough. Yeah,
and he he was like, you know what, only making
this worse, So I'm just gonna stop. Well, I'm ahead, mak.
The days that followed were significantly painful for Maria. She

(04:50):
became withdrawn, complained of terrifying nightmares, and woke up with
bites and scratches all over her body. On one occasion,
twelve needles mat and punctured Maria's skin, causing her to
scream in agony. On another day, while having lunch in
her school's backyard, Maria's close burst into flames as someone
had dowsed gasoline on her. Oh my god, spontaneous setting

(05:14):
on fire. And that was the last straw from Maria,
who experienced this torture daily. She became hopeless and contemplated
what she had done to deserve this. Nothing girl, No
one deserves this. But that was very catholic of her
to be like, what did I do to deserve this? Oh? Yeah,
sin did I come in? The spirits also became increasingly violent,

(05:37):
with the family, not just Maria. One afternoon, the stove
rose from the ground and levitated for several minutes before
it was flung across the room. In addition to Maria's family,
the neighbors, and Maria's teachers could no longer deny that
something evil was taking hold of the town. The story
went national and caught the attention of the famous Brazilian

(05:58):
medium Chico Chavee, which we need to do an episode
on one day, that's a whole nother, Like, there's so
much there. Have you heard of? Chico Javier, No, I haven't,
but yeah, he's just a very famous medium. I don't
remember if there's any bad things there might might be
which would do the episode. So yeah, we need to

(06:19):
do an episode. I just know he's a very famous medium,
and I have been wanting for the longest time to
dig into who he was, and so I'm adding that
to the topic list. Yeah. Yeah. Javier, who was born
in nineteen ten, was well known for his psychic abilities.
He claimed to be in contact with many famous writers
and poets to have passed away. According to Kavier, these

(06:42):
writers used him as a vessel to broadcast their voices.
People who knew Kaviet also claimed they had seen him
lovety before. He was a very son after medium, so
he thought he could help Maria. He personally reached out
to the family to offer his help and travel to
her town to visit her. Unlike others claimed Maria was possessed,
Havi had believed Maria attracted the spirits to herself because

(07:04):
she was a gifted medium who needed to learn to
control her powers. Okay, that's a different than interesting yeah
mm hmm. He spent days with Maria attempting to teach
her about her suspected abilities until one day Maria spontaneously
combusted into flames, leaving him speechless and feeling helpless. So
she set herself on fire. A lot of spontaneous combusting,

(07:26):
combusting going right, yeah, lots of uh oh my god, firebender,
lots of. He watched Maya burne for several minutes while
he unsuccessfully tried to stop the flames. Okay, I was
gonna say, don't tell me. This is like a don't
don't help, just film situations, just burn this force Heavy

(07:48):
had to accept that this situation was bigger than him,
and he asked for permission to take Maria to a
spiritual center where he and others could figure out how
to help her, which the family reluctantly agreed to, which
I get, I get, I get. I mean, how old
is she? Three you find out? Yeah, I know. I mean,
I'm assuming she's at least like a teenage right right,
younger because it talks about her going to small But

(08:08):
I guess I feel like she's a teen. She's giving
teen spirit yea, she is, so yeah, I would be
reluctant to let my teen daughter go off with some
medium to a spirit center, some famous medium yeah. Yeah.
Once at the spiritual center, kaviet claims he made contact
of the spirit who was inside Maria. Eager to further communication,

(08:31):
Kavett gathered Maria and other people at the center to
attempt to speak with the spirit again. During the exercise,
the room began to shake and then a huge shadow
appeared in the room. Javett asked the spirit what it
wanted with Maria and heard a voice say revenge. Oho, okay,
little deep boy singy revenge yeah. According to those in

(08:52):
the room and kaviert the spirit claimed that Maria had
been a witch in her previous life and had used
black magic to harm and kill many. But that's not
on Maria. That's on her previous life, like let it
be let her free. Not. According to the spirit. The
Spirituldkavier that many of the people Maria harmed died without
being able to exact the revenge, so now they're torturing

(09:15):
Maria in her current life. The situation again looked bleak
for the Bedta family, who were told once again that
there was nothing they could do because their daughter was
meant to suffer for life. Yet Javierta and his group
of spiritual leaders insisted on performing another exorcism because they
believed they could convince the spirits that Maria was now
responsible for what happened? Okay. Shockingly, the spirits agreed to

(09:40):
leave the young girl alone, and almost instantly, a silence
and a sense of peace fell on the room. What okay, Chico,
I didn't know your game. The family took Maria and
returned home, and the town returned to normal. Oh good ending.
No oh oh, unfortunately Maria does not have a happen

(10:05):
no way. Yeah. A few years later, Maria was found
dead in her room. Her death was said to have
been caused by intoxication, but it's unclear if Maria accidentally
overdose or perhaps her tortures passed drove her to die
by suicide. Oh that's terrible. At least she lived a

(10:28):
few spirit for years. For real, Just when I thought
we were gonna have something good in this podcast, I
guess the only good things were being you and speaking
of No but that's not no more like, really that's
fucking sad. Yeah no, but yeah yeah, let me bring

(10:52):
you back down to speaking of more sad things. We'll
take a little on break here and then will be
back with my depressing story my depressing case. We're back.
On April fourth, twenty twenty three, longtime friends Nayeli Tapia,

(11:14):
Juliana Massias and Denis Rena said by to their families
headed for the beach on what was supposed to be
a quick, fun trip. They left Santo Lovino, a city
in Ecuador and headed towards Playa same in the Esmerlas province.
So it's like a four hour drive. Santo Domingo is
like kind of more north and this is kind of

(11:35):
like more what was it southwest? I don't know. It
was down. It was down. Oh oh, I see and
again it should have been a four hour drive and
it was supposed to be a short vacation, but it
turned into a literal nightmare for their families. Family members
of the young women did not hear from them the

(11:57):
following day and then they reported them missing. But on
the seventh of April, the families received the worst things possible.
The girls were found when a group of fishermen noticed
a dog sniffing along siffing one specific spot along the
Ismaeradas River, and the condition in which they were found

(12:18):
left zero doubt that this was murder like it was
so bad how they were found and the investigation that
followed shed light on the growing danger women's face, not
only in Ecuador, but literally everywhere femicize or on the rise. Yeah,
when was the twenty twenty three? Oh, that's right right.

(12:40):
All three of the young women were born and raised
in Santo Domingo, and they had been friends since childhood.
They'd been through it all like your typical girl group,
you know, and they were there for each other through
the ups and downs. They all had dreams and plans.
Juliana Massias was twenty one, and she always stood out
at academically. She was an honor student and she was

(13:04):
given the the I don't know if it's like a
title or the honors of la mejor Egresstada, so like
the best in her class, the top in her class,
and her graduating class like a like a valedictorian. Uh huh. Yeah.
And she graduated from an Institute of Superior Sachila, the
Superior Institute of Technology of Sachila, and her professors remember

(13:29):
her as a bright, responsible student who was always willing
to help anyone. And since she was a young child,
she knew she would have to work hard for her future.
She had been planning on pursuing a higher degree than
her bachelor's, possibly becoming a psychologist one day. Wow, also
as a bachelor. So it's not about dictorian. I forgot
what it's called, like the deans, I don't know. No, again,

(13:54):
I famously didn't finish college. So there's a name for
it for the person who's the top and then usually
will do the speech. But I don't remember what it's called. Yeah,
I wouldn't know. I didn't get it, so you wouldn't
know either. Yeah, okay, And school wasn't the only thing
that she thrived and worked hard in. She also loved music,

(14:17):
and she had been part of a group called Las Diablitas,
and then she became a solo artist under the name
Sedia and she grew a local following as well as
social media. That's cool. Yeah, she was good. She even
got a huge gig singing for a pretty big local
political campaign, and her dreams of making money through her

(14:40):
singing were coming true. And for her, an important part
of like making steps toward that dream was to live independently.
So as soon as she graduated, she moved out of
her parents and into her grandmother's but where she was
like earning her living, not just like living there for free. Right, yeah, right,
that's such a for me. I feel like that's such
a a cool way to still experience independence but still

(15:04):
be with your family, right right, No, I agree, it's
like the best of both worlds. I fear I feel
like I'm not. I don't know because I experience it,
but I feel like I would agree with that. I
would have loved it. Oh my god. Yes, she worked
all sorts of gigs and temporary jobs to support herself.
She wanted to travel, see the world and not only

(15:24):
use her voice to sing, but to call out injustice's
women faced every day. Amazing. Yeah, I love that for her,
which makes sense when you learn about who Hurtian was,
which we'll get into a little bit later. Juliana's other
bestie was Denise Rena, who was nineteen and in her
third semester of agricultural engineering at the Cevelo State University,

(15:47):
and she, just like her friend Juliana, was very studious,
hard working, and caring as a child. I bet her
parents were sickless, but her as a child, she would
see street dogs and bring them home so that they
would have a home. They're like, yeahweh. She even wanted
to open her own veterinary clinic one day, but like

(16:08):
the state of the country and her financial state, like,
she had to change her plans. And her new plants
were then to go to the US and try to
make it in the US. A common story. Yeah, and
those who knew her would describe her as calm, peaceful,
and loyal and that she had the ability to diffuse
any situation and she would just drop anything to help,

(16:30):
just like her friend. And then Nigilee Tapia was the
third of this girl trio. She was twenty two and
a mother to a four year old girl, and she
she had just moved from Santo Domingo to Quito to
hopefully find a better job to provide for her child.
And she lived there in Quito with her older sister

(16:51):
and was still trying to find a job, like she
had literally just moved. She did find occasional work as
a model, and her long term plan was to move
to Spain because she thought there was more modeling opportunities there.
Makes sense, Yeah, sook this like successful girl group here,
Like one of them is a singer, the other's a model,

(17:12):
and the other is an agricultural engineering student, which sounds difficult.
I don't know again famously dinner finish college, I hear
engineering and I'm like my brain explodes. Yeah. Yeah. And
she like her friends, She was kind, always happy, and
despite the distance, always always still talk to her friends

(17:32):
and was still very close with them. Even though the
three of them had their plates so full, they made
time for each other too and for fun, and part
of that fun included their beach trip. Denise had met
up with a friend which she had several times, a
different friend, and he invited her on the trip, the

(17:53):
beach trip, and was like, you should bring your friends,
and it seemed like a good time. She didn't give
an answer right away because she was like, well, let
meet you with my friends. I'm not going without them,
and I don't know if they want to go. Am
I wrong to be suspicions? You're not gonna tell me,
not at all. You're not at all wrong. No, this
is why I'm not friends with men. I mean, I

(18:15):
mean no. Yeah. On the fourth of April and nine am,
she left her house, but she didn't give her family
details on where she was going, just that she was
going out for breakfast. But she still wasn't sure about
the beach, so she didn't tell them she was going.
She did mention the beach trip was maybe happening, but
it wasn't for sure yet, so she was like, all right,
I'll be back. And she went to breakfast with that

(18:36):
same guy friend who invited her to the beach, and
so they left together. Everything seemed fine, and at some
point they picked Nayelli up and she had traveled from
Quito to spend time with her friends. She's the one
and keep them with the daughter. Yeah, and so her,
Denise and this guy were together pretty much all day.

(18:57):
They returned to Denis's house and then at Denisa's house,
they decided, well, let's go to the beach. Let's do it.
It sounds fun, and so they told Denis's parents, like,
we're going to be at this Casablanca hotel, be in
the touristy area at the beach in the Esmelalas province,
and they were excited. They went out together for a bit,
then they picked up Juliana. The girls were so excited

(19:20):
for a little short vacate. Juliana even posted a video
on her WhatsApp status where they were singing you know
like a whoo sing along the car is moving type
of video, but unfortunately the vibes they got dark very quickly.
The drive was supposed to be four hours, but they
were like, why are we still on the road. It's
been like we should have been there already. So they

(19:43):
started to get worried. Denise had already been texting with
a different friend, normal friend things, you know, and then
her friend received a text Sasa ricorda, get MUCHO. I
feel like something is going to happen. Happened to me
and if it does, remember then I love you so much.

(20:04):
And her friend was like, wow, that was random, but
she didn't know what to make of it. And I'm sure,
I don't know. I would hope that she maybe forwarded
this message to her parents, but maybe she didn't have
that information. I don't know, but it is a worrisome
worries some text to receive from something sure, and Naieli
also felt like something was off, and just past eleven PM,

(20:27):
she sends her live location to her sister. She said,
just in case, she sent her live location, but after
a while the signal was lost and then her sister
could no longer see it, and then there was like
then everyone lost contact with them. They weren't answering, the
girls weren't sending any messages, and that was so unusual
for them because even if they weren't with their family,
they were like constantly sending updates and like you and

(20:48):
I do that with our mom. Even you and Hawaii,
You're like we landed, we're at the hotel, we're at
the beach now, like they were the same way. And
so this was very concerning for them, and none of
the family members who went to think the worst, but
when there was absolutely zero contact, they grew very, very worried,
of course, and on Thursday, April sixth Juliana Stia Paulina Reda,

(21:12):
who also happened to be a well known lawyer and
women rights activists in Ecuador. Oh she was the first
to report them missing. She made the report to the
extorci Is Equestros or Dina said, for sure, the national

(21:33):
police unit that deals with murder, disappearances, abductions and ransom.
You've mentioned this before, right or no, maybe when we
were talking, because this isn't the first Ecuador case. I
don't think. Yeah, possibly, And the investigation began immediately, which
again you have to like praise, because sometimes they're like, no,
there's just girls having fun being bad like but no,

(21:55):
this investigation started right away. But before they even started
chasing leads, the invistigators received the terrible news that on
the seventh a group of fishermen were on foot at
the bank of the Esberanda's River when their dog was
acting weird. It was sniffing and sniffing the same spot,
barking at it, howling, and then it started to dig

(22:16):
and they were like ahead of the dog, and they
would call the dog, like, get over here, dog, I
don't know the dog's name, and the super obedient dog
would not leave the spot, and they're like, all right,
this isn't normal. So they got closer to the dog
and that's when they noticed a horrible smell and saw
where the dog was digging, and they saw like half
a body sticking out. Oh my god, of a shallow grave. Yeah,

(22:40):
And so they called the police right away, and the
police arrived very quickly and were met with the horrible scene.
There were two more bodies in that grave. They were
all there was. It was three women dressed like they
were going to the beach. Their hands were tied behind them,
and all three of them were gagged and their face
were very disfigured. There was bruises everywhere and very clear

(23:04):
signs of torture on all three of them. Wow. And
despite the advanced stages of decomposition, police right away believed
it was Nailli, Juliana, and Denise, and this was confirmed
when family members arrived at the Morge later to identify them.

(23:25):
And the identification of Juliana was extra challenging because, according
to her Ta Paulina, her face was so deteriorated that
they could only identify her through her feet. Oh my god.
Was it because of how they were left by the
person that did this, or because of the time that passed,
or because it wasn't that long though right there, I

(23:48):
think it's it wasn't that long. But I think just
because it was the water and it was like hotter,
oh in the water. That's right, that's right, I believe,
because okay, I'll mention a little bit of it later
as well. Yeah, it doesn't seem like something was done
to their faces to make it extra the two redd
or like messed up. The autopsy confirmed the obvious the

(24:11):
women had been murdered. All three had puncture wounds consistent
with the machete bruises were all over their bodies. Their
throats had been severely slashed, which was the potential cause
of death. And these murders shook the country. It became
like a sensational case in the country. And because it

(24:34):
was sensational, a video of Juliana surfaced, and in the
video she was sitting at a bar with a man
and she was singing like it appeared to be she
was serenading the man. They looked like a couple in
the video. And people took this and just ran with it.
They were like, oh, this it was him. It was him,
Oh my god, it wasn't him. No, it wasn't Juliana's Diaz,

(24:55):
the one who came out and be like, you guys
can just come out and accuse anyone, Like, dude, I
don't Internet sleuths are the same anywhere, because that kind
of shit happens over here. Oh yeah, like I remember
that one. I mean it happens with all sorts of cases.
But I remember the documentary of something about cats, but
it wasn't really about cats, you know what I'm talking about?
On Netflix. I forgot what it was called. But there

(25:17):
was like a sloth, like a group of sloothers who
supposedly were trying to solve this crime, and they pinpointed
the wrong person, and that person ended up dying by
suicide because of the accusations they made against them. Didn't
this also happen in the Boston marathon bombing, Yeah, I
believe so. I don't know that. I know they falsely
accused someone read it, but I don't know that person

(25:38):
harmed themselves because of it. I don't remember that, but
I know that I'm not sure though it could be.
Don't quote me, but yeah, it's a very common thing luckily,
Like this man didn't do anything drastic, but he didn't
have to like move because of the accusations. And yeah,
it wasn't even him, he was innocent. He was just random,
like this was an old video like yeah, And so

(26:00):
the investigation continued. It was treated as a femicide right way,
which carries a heavier charge, a heavier seriousist to it,
at least for this group of police officers and detectives
that were working the case. They were taking it very
seriously and like to call it a femicide. It wasn't
a light thing. So this was like a thing in

(26:21):
their criminal justice system where yeah, it's they had heavier penalty. Yeah,
a lot of Latin American countries at least have been
adopting a new charge that is a femicide where it
comes it's like a hate crime basically, and so that's
how they were investigating it. They were taking it more seriously.
And that's something that we in this country don't do.

(26:43):
Domestic violence or violence against women. Even attacks that are
seemingly or not seemly but apparently have some kind of
sexist or racist or homophobic aspect to it, they still
refuse to call it a hate crime. Yeah, And some
people will hear the word femicigine and immediately like laugh

(27:04):
and like they think it's not It makes them angry
just to hear it. But there's a reason the word exists,
like come on, right. So yeah, No, these investigators were
taking it very seriously, which again is like some sadly
something that has to be praised. Yeah, And so they
returned to the area where they found the woman for

(27:26):
more evidence, and they realized that there was no blood here,
so they had to have been murdered somewhere else. And
then moved to this area, and they also found an
old beat up phone that they hoped would offer some leads.
They pieced together the events that followed the fourth when
the woman left for the beach trip. So Naieli's message

(27:47):
to her sister, the one with the live location, was
vital to this because even though it like dropped off,
they went to that area and they're like, wow, this
is very close to where they were found, and so
it showed the officers like this car never made it
to their location, like the murder happened between here and

(28:08):
where they were found. They never went to the beach.
So they were able to pull security footage from the area.
They found that the car was a black Chevrolet che
Chevrolet Chevrolet Chevrolet Chevy Chevy. It was a black Sui
Chevy anyway, and they could see that a man had

(28:28):
been driving and that there was a second car behind
them with three men in that car. And the investigators
were able to track down the owners or the vehicles.
There were rented vehicles, and they were rented by thirty
four year old Olger Sanbrano. The vehicle had been seen
driving for hours after the time of the murder, and

(28:50):
then it was found crashed and abandoned in Santo Domingo,
where they were from, so they drove back after then
they found out that although Orged had rented the car,
the person actually driving the car the girls were in
was Luis Fernando Vacca Bravo. Denis's family immediately recognized the name.

(29:11):
He had been friends with her for years now, and
he was the one who made the invitation in the
first place. Orger Sanbrano, who had been driving the second
car with his brother Andres Marcello and another friend, Omar
Ivan Ordonez and so. These three had not known the
women for a long time. They met them at a

(29:31):
party just a few months before the beach trip, but
they were friends with Louis and so Julianastia Paulina believed
that this was her theory after hearing like these potential suspects.
She believed that there had been an argument and perhaps
even a refusal of the girls to sleep with them men,
and that's what caused them to be angry and then

(29:54):
kill the girls. I could see why she thought that,
because at this point there's three of the men and
three of the girls. Yeah. The rest of the family
members believed a different story. They thought it was premeditated
because they said that the grave that they were found
in was very deep. But if you have four men,

(30:14):
you can they can dig up. Oh yeah, So Louise
was driving the car with them, and the other car
had three the two brothers and then the Omar guy.
Yeah yes, so, I mean among them they can dig
a pretty big hole. So, but they believed there was
premeditated and that the men had pre dug the giant grave.
And then they also believed that the men had used

(30:36):
some sort of chemical acid on the faces of the
women because of how disfigured they were, but this was
later denied or disproved. It was proven to be from
the water or what. I can't find something the basis
of the like of they this didn't happen, but the
police was like, no, that's not there were there was
no chemical usage on their faces. So there was no

(30:59):
information on what caused the disfigurement. I can only guess
that it was like the elements, and investigators never made
this public like the cause, but it did seem that
Pabrina had been correct based on how the investigation went.
So once the car had been located, there were traces

(31:20):
of blood in the car, making it evident. Oh and sorry,
there was traces of blood, and then there was an
attempt to clean that blood. Like they could tell that much.
And so this led them to believe that this is
where they were murdered or where something happened because of
the blood found in the car. And also they found
a nail that had belonged to Denise, which indicated there
was a struggle in the vehicle, and the men quickly

(31:43):
became primary suspects. Investigators then attempted to locate them and
issue arrest warrants, and on May twenty six, twenty twenty three,
the pair of brothers Andres and Urge were found near
the border of Ecuador and Peru. Like else they were,
they were trying to flee. Yeah, they were trying to

(32:04):
flee into Peru. And so they were arrested and then
you know, put in jail. And then in their search
for Louis Vaka, there had been a twist in the
investigation two months after the brothers had been apprehended, you know,
maybe so, because then in July he was found murdered

(32:28):
and dismembered in the province of Chimborasso, which is not
close to the river or Santo Domingo, like it is
a whole different location. And once the autopsy had been done,
investigators learned that he had been dead since April, potentially only,
if not the same day as the girls, a few
days at most after them. Wow. Yes, and his parents,

(32:51):
Louis Baca's parents had fled at Guador because once he
had been declared a suspect, they were getting death threats
by people. But it turns out that they have boken
to Paulina Julian Astilla and they told her that they
suspected their son had been murdered with the women, with
the young women, because they had not they hadn't been
able to get ahold of him. Yeah, since the women

(33:12):
had been found, And what his family suspected is that
he saw it happen and he was going to talk
and they took care of it before they took care
of him before he could talk, which would makes sense
or I mean, not to get to speculate it, but
I feel like also maybe when they try to first

(33:32):
sexually attack the women or whatever, like maybe he stepped
in to defend them and they killed him then, Like
I could also see that maybe either either one of those,
or is what happened because it was only a day
or two after they had been murdered, that he had
been murdered. Oh it was after Okay, yeah, well no,
police are not sure. So the timeline they they gave
is either the same time they were murdered or like

(33:55):
a day or two after at most. But yeah, he
had been murdered and like his parents had to flee
because of the death threats they were receiving. How unfortunate
that they were getting threats at the same time their son,
they suspect that had also been killed. Yes, yes, And
investigators continued looking for Omar Ordonez, the third man in

(34:17):
the other vehicle with the brothers, and they had been
unsuccessful until November twenty twenty three. They found him and
caught him and arrested him, and they learned that he
was part of a criminal organization called Los Lobos. He
also had prior charges that had to do with transporting
illegal firearms. So the other two had the other three

(34:37):
men because well Louis was dead by his criminal record
was also checked and so the other three had no
charges at all. But Z did have like a history
of crime and I had been a part of this cartel.
I think it's a cartel. Sounds like one. Yeah, And

(35:00):
so now all three of them were behind bars and
they were officially charged with femicide. But then the court
changed this from femicide to like just regular murder. Why,
I don't know? They Oh, I do know. Sorry I
wrote it down. My bad. My instinct is just to

(35:20):
say I don't know. I was changed from femicide to
just regular planal murder because they the court said that
there was no intimate relationship between the men and the
young women, which is like the defining factor for a femicide,
like that intimate relationship between the perpetrator and the victim.

(35:43):
But I would argue that just knowing them and being
friends with them is I think that counts. Yeah, I
could see why they would try to define it like that.
But didn't we just talk about case We literally did? Yeah,
we did? Was it? I don't even remember? It was
the woman the exorcism of Vima Trujillo. Yes, yeah, let's

(36:07):
say who they did the extorsism on. But I candn't
remember what country it was from, but you remembered her name. Yes,
it was Nicaragua, and they charged it as, oh, that's right,
that's right, and they charged it as femicide even though
they technically didn't have like that component relationship. But they
knew each other, he knew. Yeah, And this of course
outraged family members and pretty much the whole country, of course,

(36:30):
because again it was a sensational case and so everyone
knew what was going on with the case, and when
they this was done, it was an outrage. And Juliane Astella,
she argued that the intimate relationship didn't matter. That part
didn't matter of the official definition, because these men felt
entitled to the women because of their gender, and they
would not have been murdered if they had been men exactly,

(36:56):
because they murdered them when they were rejected. And yeah,
if they had been this wouldn't have happened if they
were not women. But the course were not swayed and
they didn't change it back to femicide. On April ninth,
twenty twenty four, the first trial against the three men

(37:16):
was held, and the strategy of the defense when when sorry,
well April ninth, twenty four, Yeah, okay, let me just
resay that. Yeah, sorry, I don't know why, Like I said, anybody,
it didn't sometimes I have to repeat dates again to you.
So number yeah, the numbers. Yeah. On April ninth, twenty
twenty four, the first trial against the three men was

(37:38):
held and the strategy of the defense was to pin
it all on Louis Vaka, who could not defend himself
because they had potentially killed him. But then who killed him?
They didn't have enough evidence, not the defendants. It was
just speculation that it was the defendants. But like, honestly,
of course who ell and or Gus Mbrano was let go.

(38:01):
He was found to not have been present at the
time of the murder. He had just been the one
who acquired the vehicle, but he wasn't there when they
were killed, That's what they said, and so he was
lego interesting. Yeah, And so the trial for Omar Ordonez
and Andres Abrano continued and after a lot of testimonies
placing them at the location, documents and physical evidence, a

(38:24):
historic sentence for Ecuador was given on the seventeenth of
May twenty twenty fourth. The men were given the maximum
sentence possible for murder, which is thirty four years in
prison without parole. And so yeah, for the murder of Nayellitapia,
Juliana Massias, and Denis Rena. They were also ordered to

(38:47):
pay three hundred thousand dollars to the families for financial
distress and another fine of thirteen thousand on top of
the thirty three hundred thousand sorry numbers. Oh my god,
it sounds so dumb. No, well, yeah, thirty thirty My bad. No,
I had to practice, had to say five one hundred
and eighty two thousand something earlier. So okay, well, yeah,

(39:10):
we're the same or one brain, shared brain cell. And
the defense did try to appeal in October of twenty
twenty four and there was a new trial to see
if the sentence was fair, because according to the defense,
it was not fair. But luckily justice was on the
side of the family and the sentence was ratified. Like
they were like, yeah, this was good. Is that what

(39:30):
ratified means? I don't know. Okay, whoa, I'm not that
smart neither. In Spanish it was ratificado, so I have
assumed that that translated into ratified, and then I assumed
that it had a meeting a lot of assumptions. Maybe
someone will that was not the right term. They basically

(39:51):
were like, yeah, this was the right sentence. But you know,
what should have happened there should have been like nope, more,
actually we messed there was a case more what were
we what case was there? Where they were like someone
appealed and then it was like no more time we
covered a case. I remember that. I don't even remember.
Yeah either, And although it clearly doesn't bring back their daughters,

(40:13):
the families felt relief that the second trial was refirming,
reaffirming that that sentence, and they of course continued to
miss their daughters or sisters or nieces right their sense
of safety was forever destroyed. Paulina received threats for publicly

(40:36):
demanding justice. A family member of the niece stated she
didn't feel safe fucking around anymore, like how could she.
At Juliana's funeral, a mass man approached Paulina JULIANA'STM and
told hers stop poking around. Remember that you have daughters. Yeah.

(41:00):
This is just so reminiscent of so many things that
we've talked about, and one that comes to mind because
I'm listening to the book Everyone who is Gone is here.
I'm pretty sure that, yeah, I think so. I'm listening
to that, and I want to recommend it over but
because they talk about a lot of stuff that we

(41:21):
have talked about here and in this podcast, because they
talk about Luscetto's uh murder in the book, but in
one part, because it's basically about Central America, the history
and the US involvement and the migration crisis because of

(41:43):
US involvement, and they talk about Mina Midna Mac was
her y from and how she was killed because of
all of her work with the researching the indigenous community
and advocating for the indigenous community that had basically basically

(42:04):
been was being genocided by the Guatemalan government military and
she was killed because of her work by the military.
But of course putiny impunity was rampant, and instead of
properly investigating her murder, they said it was just one

(42:27):
random robbing. I think that's what they ended up seeing.
And then her sister fought for investigating herself, advocated for
a right justice to be served. She took the case
to the ic J. I'm pretty sure it was, but
she and the family was receiving threats because she was

(42:50):
looking into the murder of Vietna. Yes, that's right. And
the book they also talk about the creation of the
MS thirteen and how the gangs basically spread all over
Central America too. And they're talking about the violence in Guatemala,
and there's one part where this woman's uncle was killed

(43:14):
and then she was threatened. Basically the family was threatened
one by one. They all fled and eventually made their
way to the US because of the violence and the threats.
They were very similar because of a Faunid member that, yeah,
very similar. It's such a huge issue. And Paulina was
already used to receiving threats because of her job of
her wife. Yeah, but this was a whole another level.

(43:37):
She requested state protection, which I think should have been
given to her, but it wasn't. And tragically for her family,
the worst was yet to come. Her son was killed
in an unrelated incident, it seems. But then in November
twenty twenty four, she herself was abducted. Oh wow, and
she was found two days later in Tossagua, Ecuador, three

(43:58):
hours away from Santa Domingos, really hurt. She was taken
to the hospital where she was basically finding for her
life and they still never found out the motive for
her kidnapping. But luckily she was returned home safe and sound.
She's yes, yes, but could it haven't related, Like we
don't know. Yeah, I'm like, even if it wasn't related,

(44:20):
it just goes to show the wave of violence against
women and the femicide. Yeah, the murder of the three
women and then the aftermath of their murders, it just
sheds so much light on the dangerous woman face simply
for being women. And then the fact that it wasn't
called the femicide afterward is just like adding insult to injury.

(44:42):
Oh yeah, definitely, definitely, And that's the importance of fighting
the patriarchy because a lot of dumb bitches out there
think that subscribing to traditional gender roles and falling in
line with the patriarchy will protect them. Well it does not.
It actually to morelence violence, and it doesn't protect you.

(45:04):
I mean, just look at any point in time. Yeah.
Also another important thing here, this is twenty twenty three
when it occurred, and like a lot of Latin America,
Igualala falls under the same trajectory where they're pushing right
and right and they actually just right. It's like, I
feel like the whole world almost Yeah, except Mexico. M Hm,

(45:27):
you've got meco governments. I'll be shotting that on the
sucker game. Sorry, go on, oh wow for sure. Anyway,
but when these right wing these types of governments and dictatorships,
the people at the most to face the most danger

(45:49):
under these types of governments are women and children, and
like people think, oh, we need us strong hand to
lead us to safety, and really people pay the price
for that. And it's not even just like state sanctioned
crimes that go up, but then impunity happens. And like, yes,
here in this case they did face justice, even though

(46:12):
it was lessened into a femicide. But like when you
have these dictatorships coming into power less than from a
m yes, sorry, I don't know what I said. Oh yes,
from two anyway, I don't know know, like it was
not it was originally charged them and then yes, thank
you yeses. Also side note, but like the US is

(46:36):
helping the authoritative government in Equador right now fight their opposition,
which is never a good sign, right of course, and
like it's just I don't know, I guess important to
get a full picture of like what is going on
in the country that informs these type of crimes, because
like when these governments take power, these types of crimes rise.

(47:00):
And it's not to say one is more perfect than
the other, but one is like a fake sense of safety,
and you know, and and one believes in yes, violent rhetoric. Yes,
like I don't care if you if you think that
people are exaggerating, but that's the reality of it. Yeah,

(47:21):
like viewing women as objects, being children as objects, that's
what that's what enables a violent attitude in worldview against
women and children against Yeah, the most vulnerable. And I

(47:41):
mean it's not to go too off topic, and that
is a tenet of the right way, yes, and of
these patriarchal systems. So I don't know what I was
gonna say, so it doesn't matter, but yeah, yeah, just
I want to say those things. Feminism period. Yes, that's
why it's important. Yeah. So yeah, do you have any

(48:05):
speaky recommendations? Actually I do, I do. I listen to
the audiobook. Cackle, Oh, I've racheld something, isn't it Harrison?
I think it is her. I think you're right, it's Harrison. Yeah,
I think so. I'm gonna pulls. Okay. I've realized a
lot of people don't like her writing, just like a

(48:25):
lot of people don't like Grady Hendrix. And it's so
funny because I've liked all the books I've read by
both of them. Both of them, I think I've read
too or listen. I haven't actually read any, but I
listened to three of her books already. I think, Mmm, okay,
I still need to read one. I still haven't. Oh
you haven't. No, okay, so cackle by Rachel Harrison the

(48:51):
description all her life, Annie has played it nice and safe.
After being unceremoniously dumped by her longtime boyfriend, Annie seeks
a fresh start. She accept a teaching position that moves
from Manhattan to a small village upstate. She's stunded by
how perfect and picturesque the town is. The people are
all friendly and warm. Her new apartment is dreamy too,

(49:12):
minus the oddly persistent spider in physician. Then Annie meets Sophie, Beautiful, charming,
magnetic Sophie who takes a special interest in Annie, who
wants to be her friend. More importantly, she wants Annie
to stop apologizing and start living for herself. That's how
Sophie lives. Annie can't help but gravitate toward the self
possessed Sophie, wanting to spend more and more time with her,

(49:34):
despite the fact that the rest of the town folks
seem a little afraid of her, and like, Okay, there
are some things. Sophie's appearance is on Kenny and ageless.
Her mansion in the middle of the woods feels a
little unearthly, and she does seem to wield a certain power.
But she couldn't be could she done right? And it

(49:55):
was just a perfect like it got me and a
fall mood. I love this one hundred plus degree together
that we were hiving here in the ARMPI. Yes, yes,
so yeah, it made me feel like fall in the inside.
And people talk about cozy horror and I feel like
this is cozy horror. Oh on that to my tv R. Yeah,

(50:18):
I liked it. And in the end, it's like friendship. Ooh,
I love woman friendship matters more. I love that. I
just watched Brone City and that is the epitome of
a women friendship. Okay, if you haven't watched it, you
need to watch it. I do need to watch it. Yeah,
so I liked it. I like cackle love. I'm going

(50:39):
to add it to my TVR I'm never ending TVR
my speaking recommendation. I already yapped about it for literally
almost two hours with Aiden but weapons, oh weapons, it
was so good, Like I it was, It's a different

(51:00):
type of movie. I went in not knowing literally anything
about it except kids running anime style, which I already
said on to talk, and that's it. That's all I knew.
I didn't know what to expect, which is like, I
guess people went in expecting aliens and spoiler there is
no aliens. So they were like, this did not meet
my expectations. And I was like, you know what, you
can't have expectations, don't have them go in. That's why

(51:24):
I like listening and watching stuff without really knowing much
about the same. And yeah, it blew in my mind.
It was amazing. Just when you thought it wasn't gonna
go there, it went there and it went past it,
but it wasn't It was like a good past past it.
It wasn't like a bad past it, you know. Uh.
And I'm not gonna say anything else because you need
to watch it, but it was fucking crazy. I there

(51:47):
was like three moments specific when I was like, was
it scary? Yeah, some parts were like, we're like, because
I was trying to convince Pat to watch it. Oh okay,
now I hardly watched movies by myself. There was a
couple jump scares. Oh, and he saw the trailer and
he's like, no, I don't want to watch it, and
I was like, yeah, I don't think. I think he

(52:07):
would be horrified. I do. Yeah, okay, it's more for
me and you, you know it honestly, almost, but it
was a little more light than that. But it almost
made me feel as dreadful as that Argentinean movie. I
wouldn't shut the fuck up out. Maybe you're gonna say, yes,
I already forgot the name. I don't remember it either,

(52:28):
but no, yes, it's the same people who made Terrified,
but it's not Terrified. It's that other one with the
possessed people, and it has a very similar name to that. Anyway,
it made me feel like that, but it was had
lighter moments which were very appreciated. Also, Oh, well, no,
you didn't watch you watch some of The Walking Dead?
Do you remember Ron from The Walking Dead? Ron? Yeah?

(52:53):
Do you remember when they get to Alexandria? No? Okay,
so that's pointless anyway, Ron from The Walking Dad is
in the movie, and I was like, okay, Ron, I
see you. He was so good in it. He was
an annoying as Brady kid in The Walking Dead, so
I didn't know his game. Ron is a kid, and
yeah he's a kid in The Walking Dead. He's an adult.
Now I only remember Carl. Yeah, well they get to

(53:15):
they leave like the I don't know. No, that's too
much I go into I can't recap four seasons. I
would love to. I love The Walking Dead, but no,
I'm not going to. Anyway, he was in it and
he was shockingly good, and I yapped about the movie
for almost two hours with Aiden. Is he still a kid? No, No,
he's a young adult. He's an adults. I don't know

(53:36):
how old he is, like twenty five, maybe twenty six,
twenty eight, I don't know. I'm guessing, Oh, are you
older than twenty younger than thirty? Okay, Yeah, that's a
good window there. All right. Well, I guess that brings
us to the end of the episode. We'll see how

(53:56):
the Mexico versus Japan game goes. Carmen's gonna attended irl
and I'm gonna go to a bar hat and back
or hat back, grill, hat back and grill something like that.
If you just like look up where they show games
at places, it's gonna pop up. I see, yeah, and
so yeah, I'll update everyone on my social butterfly events later.

(54:22):
And other than that, I was gonna try and say
something about the Poulter guys, but I can't think watch
Out for Brickings like watch Out for Bricks go goes
to brickings by Polter guys. Yeah, and yees stay spokua,
can't you real next time? Oh my god, no, no, no, no, no,
I almost forgot event. Yes, I momentarily remembered right now

(54:46):
and they're forgotten. Then you wait, you said that's what's
freshmen hair right now? Because I was like gonna mention, yes, okay,
go ahead. Have you stayed this long? We have some news.
We're going to be in Washington in y I come
out Washington. An event called the Cugui is going to
get you a night of storytelling, Sustos and spirits featuring

(55:08):
Jonathan Pees from Latinos against Spooky Shit and then us
as Spooky teals. Yeah, and there's gonna be live storytelling
terot Oracle card readers, and then there's gonna be a
little spooky Mercado and tickets go on sale. Did they
already go and sale? I didn't see a link. It
says tickets go on sale September first, but yeah, you

(55:28):
didn't like send me anything. As soon as we have
the link, I will update it. This is editing Christina
from the future from when this was recorded, interrupting this
episode to announce that the tickets have gone live as
of ten am Friday, September fifth. If we're hearing this
at the time it releases, and if you're hearing it later,

(55:52):
there's still up probably unless you're hearing it like years
from now, which I don't know about that. But yes,
tickets go on sale September fifth, twenty twenty five, at
ten am specific Standard time, and I have put the
link in the show notes. Let me know. If that
doesn't work. It won't work before ten am, but it
should work after. If it doesn't, let me know. And

(56:14):
we hope to see you at the event in Yakima.
We will be at that event. I don't think the
tickets are livea but by the time this comes out,
hopefully it will be. There's supposed to be line September first,
so yeah, we'll share the link and more details to come,
but yeah, November one, we're gonna be there. And I mean, hey,

(56:34):
that's only that at to hour drive from Seattle, so like,
if you're in this area or a little further, just
go just drive over there, go, just go. And of
course if you're in Yakima, like come through, come through.
And yeah, okay, that's what I wanted to share. No
one will know how long it took us to find
that information. And yeah, other than that Facebook, we'll catch

(56:56):
everyone next time. Bye bye. As Booktells is hosted by
Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by
Christina Carmen and with the help of Don Shout Out Don.
If you aren't joying the podcast considerably, going to say
five star review, we would really appreciate it. If you
don't want to the professor review, just don't leave a review,
but don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding.

(57:18):
You can reach out to the podcast at at spoaktos
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(57:40):
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It's almost wetter weather or a spookie season, so yeah,

(58:02):
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(58:23):
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