November 14, 2023 • 33 mins
Chris Fields, the VP of Sales at Zelh Logistics, discusses his 15 years of experience at TQL and the evolution of the freight brokerage industry. He provides insight into where he thinks the future of freight brokerage is headed based on his experience and touches on topics such as outsourcing models, hiring practices, carrier relationships, and adapting to change.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Blythe Brumleve (00:00):
Welcome into another episode of Everything Is
Logistics, a podcast for thethinkers in freight.
We were proudly presented bySPI Logistics and I am your host
, Blythe Brumleve, today.
We got a very special guest foryou today.
It is the VP of sales at CrisFields over at Zelh Logistics.
So I'm excited to have thisconversation because you you
(00:21):
know the sort of the elephant inthe room is.
You spent 15 years at TQL.
Now you are working for Zelhfor a few months now, and so
it's an interesting dynamic ofwhat's going on in the freight
brokerage world.
So I'm excited to sort of talkthrough what you think, the
evolutions that need to behappening, based on your
experience of working in a bigtime freight brokerage, and
(00:44):
where you think this segment ofthe industry is headed.
So, chris, welcome to the show.
Chris Fields (00:49):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to it and Ihope people don't stop
listening when they first heardthat I was there for 15 years.
You know, I said this to youearlier Blythe it's there's good
, bad, ugly opinions about thecompany and I feel like I was
one of the good ones and it wasdue in large part to the carrier
relationships.
I had really transparent withmy carriers and I think it was a
(01:13):
mutually beneficial partnership.
Blythe Brumleve (01:16):
So well, hopefully, yeah, no one.
Either you turn the volume upwhen you hear TQL or you just
immediately like shut it off.
So hopefully people are turningthe volume up anytime you hear
that name because obviously youbecome the top dog for good and
bad reasons, and hopefully thegood outweighs the bad.
But there's a lot of debatearound that topic, regular
(01:38):
everything's logistics.
Listeners will probably haveheard the conversation with
Matthew Leffler who broke down alot of the interesting I guess
the interesting ruling that cameout recently with TQL versus
the classification of salaryversus non-salary positions,
especially within the freightbrokerage world.
I was an executive.
(01:58):
I was never a freight broker,but I sat next to the freight
brokers on the brokerage floorat a logistics company about,
you know, 10 years ago and itwas very much, especially
working in marketing.
It very much was okay.
We're going to go to thedifferent schools that are in
the area.
We're going to recruit thosefresh face college graduates and
we're going to sit them downand we're going to make them
(02:20):
pound the phones on all the coldleads that the other
experienced brokers never hadaccess to.
And that sounds like a lot ofwhat or not a lot, but it sounds
like it's a typical freightbrokerage model, not just for
the company I worked at but alsofor TQL.
Is that a safe assumptionacross most freight brokerages?
Chris Fields (02:40):
For the big box 3PLs.
Yes, I think it's become avolume play and when I first
started there in 2008, I don'tthink that was the case, and
I'll tell you this I applied andgot turned down on my initial
interview.
They said we're not interested.
Blythe Brumleve (02:55):
Oh, wow Do you know why?
Chris Fields (02:58):
The recruiter just said probably not a good fit
and that really fired me up.
So the next day I applied again.
I said no, we're going to talk.
So I lasted 15 years and it wasa great career.
But that just shows that backin 2008, 2009, they were a
little more selective and Ithink all of the big box, the CH
(03:19):
, they were all a little moreselective and now it's just we
need bodies in the door.
Blythe Brumleve (03:26):
And so what are those bodies taking care of
right now?
Because you hear a lot or Ihear a lot about tech revolution
and tracking visibility and itsounded like buzzwords for years
.
But to pick up another storythat that's been going on in
freight is the digital freightbrokerage and they're going to
eliminate the role of thefreight broker and you create
(03:48):
this instant visibility for allof your shipments.
What do you think that thebodies in the seats are taking
care of now at major freightbrokerages?
Is it tracking and tracing?
Is it still a combination ofthe digital freight brokerage
model versus the traditionalfreight brokerage model?
Chris Fields (04:06):
Yes, I think if you lean too far in one
direction it's a problem.
I think that hybrid of get thereally smart tech people in
there to automate what can beautomated, but then you still
need that human element.
And you still need becausedrivers still like talking to
people.
They don't want a text messagesand text back and say, hey, I'm
(04:27):
loaded or I'm unloaded.
They still like to pick up thephone and talk to people.
And I think those that findthat balance of tech and human
interaction are the ones thatwill excel the most.
Blythe Brumleve (04:40):
And so, as you spent 15 years at TQA, how did
your role evolve?
Did you start off with beingthe butts in the seats and
pounding the cold calls?
Did you start out and track andtrace it?
Tell me a little bit about yourtime and how your role evolved.
Chris Fields (04:57):
Yeah.
So I started out as anassistant on a large account and
I got to train on that accountfor 20 weeks or so and then they
said, okay, here's a desk andgood luck.
And I didn't plan to stay verylong.
I said, but if I'm going to dothis, I'm going to make more
calls than anyone else, I'mgoing to stay on the phone more
(05:17):
and I'm going to figure it outor I'm going to fail.
And so I did that.
I made thousands and thousandsof phone calls and then I said
you know what?
I'm pretty dang good at this.
And so I built a book ofbusiness myself.
I had assistance on my team, Ibuilt a large team and then,
from that point, I think thiswas probably a mistake I made is
(05:37):
I went into management fromthere, and your best salespeople
aren't always your bestmanagers and vice versa.
But that was just you know, 28year old Chris going All right,
well, that's next step, let's gointo management.
And so I went into managementand started building a team in
2010.
I actually started their Tampaoffice with six people and then
(05:59):
grew that to 250 people, so, andit's still one of their most
successful offices.
Blythe Brumleve (06:04):
So did you?
Did you go back to sales or didyou?
Did you stay in them?
Obviously, you stayed in themanagement side of things.
Chris Fields (06:10):
So I was in management for a bit and then we
found a role.
They said Well, let's get Chrisin front of some of our large
accounts, let's get him backinto selling a little bit.
So I traveled, I don't know, 35weeks out of the year visiting
some top accounts and sayinghere's what we're doing right,
here's what we're doing wrong,let's tweak it here.
And oftentimes I would meet upwith a sales rep.
(06:32):
It was his account, but theywere a little more green and
they said get Chris in therewith them and let's let's make
sure we're doing a good job.
And some of those, thosestories of seeing a green rep
visit a customer and they'venever been on a customer visit.
There were some funny, funnylittle stories there.
Blythe Brumleve (06:47):
What is a green rep?
Chris Fields (06:50):
Well, one that just started that landed a big
account who had never.
They were great on the phone,but when they put them in a
conference room with 15 or 20executives at a large Fortune
500 company, they didn't knowwhat to say.
They're going to eat them alive.
Yes, yeah, they really did.
Blythe Brumleve (07:07):
Are you in freight sales with a book of
business looking for a new home?
Or perhaps you're a freightagent in need of a better
partnership?
These are the kinds ofconversations we're exploring in
our podcast interview seriescalled the freight agent
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Now I can tell you all day thatSPI is one of the most
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(07:28):
agents with back officeoperations such as admin,
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But I would much rather youhear it directly from SPI's
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I want better way to do thatthan by listening to the
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Hit the freight agent link inour show notes to listen to
(07:49):
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visit SPI3PLcom.
So what were some of those keydifferences that made you say,
oh, I don't know if managementis right for me.
Chris Fields (08:05):
It can be a bit of baby setting, depending on what
your team is like.
You hear about the girlfriendand boyfriend breakups and all
the noise outside of it and Ijust want my salespeople and I
want to sell and I want to driverevenue, but there's a lot of
noise that goes along with itand I think they're good
managers and good salespeopleand you've got to find your swim
(08:28):
lane For sure.
Blythe Brumleve (08:31):
Now with your experience with TQ.
I mean, obviously they're oneof the top dogs in freight.
There are obviously some stonesthat people are throwing,
trying to punch up things likethat, but what are some of the
good things that you saw?
Because you don't get to one ofthe top brokerages in the world
(08:52):
without doing some right thingor doing some correct things.
Absolutely.
Chris Fields (08:57):
Yeah, their training is top notch.
Blythe Brumleve (08:58):
Why do you say that?
Chris Fields (08:59):
And they are very upfront from day one and they
say this is what the trainingwill entail.
We're going to give you thetools to succeed.
And what you do with thosetools are up to you and I took
those and, like I said, therewas a lot of hard work, but I
was one of the top brokers foryears at their company and if
(09:20):
you needed help or you neededmore tools or support, they were
there for you.
And, like you said, you don'tget to $8 billion by accident.
Blythe Brumleve (09:29):
Right and and I think for for a lot of just the
role of the, the freight brokerin general, is just been Eve it
.
It feels like it's done a lotof evolution in the last year or
so relative to the previous 15years.
Is that a safe assumption?
I?
Chris Fields (09:47):
Think the landscape is changing now.
I think there are a couple ofthings that rolling is going to
affect how people hire movingforward, because a Lot we're
saying, well, they got here bydoing this, I can replicate it,
and now that's going to change.
I think the advance in tech isgoing to take a lot of busy work
(10:09):
off off brokers plates.
So I see us moving towards moreof an agency model and
especially the remote staffingthat has gotten so popular in
Latin America, philippines, usin Eastern Europe.
I think it's going to be moreof an agency give them
everything they need to run andand kind of, I Remove your
liabilities a little bit.
(10:29):
I know uber just started anagency program and there's
several other large ones thatthat are doing really well in a
tough market.
Blythe Brumleve (10:38):
Yeah, I mean it definitely makes a lot of sense
and I've had this conversationon the show before.
I mean, obviously you know thespoiler alert SPI logistics is a
freight agent network, proudsupporter of the show, which
isn't, you know allowed me to beable to explore these stories
more in depth and Try to findwhere you know the bright spots
are, especially in a toughmarket, and the freight agency
(10:58):
model just feels like it's one Ithink it's one of I hate to
call it like a hidden gem, butit still feels like a hidden gem
in the world of Brokerageindustries, where you can have
these top dogs who, like a SPI,who has the, the tech and the
solutions and the IT teams and,you know, the HR, the back
(11:19):
office, all of that importantthing, and Then you can have the
people who have therelationships with the customers
, with the carriers, and I thinkthat I think you're right, I
think that that's a very Hiddenentrepreneurial opportunity and
freight that not a lot of folksare paying attention to.
Chris Fields (11:37):
You're right I don't think everyone knows about
it and just the model itself oftake the accounting off their
plate, take the tracking andtracing, dispatching and just
let your salespeople sell andthen let our folks who are good
I was terrible at accounting sayI should not be doing it.
Let's take that off Chris'splate and your plate and let
(11:58):
them do what they're good at.
So I think it's only going toget more popular and, like I
said, uber announcing theirprogram and then several other
large ones.
I and the ones that have beendoing it, like SPI and your
global trends, and those thathave been doing it for years, I
think are poised to kind ofsurge ahead.
Blythe Brumleve (12:16):
And I think too , because that's one of the, the
lessons that the industry haskind of had to learn the hard
way.
You know I'll invite people ifyou want to get into sort of.
You know the, I guess the, thelawsuit details things like that
.
You know the ruling that justcame down with TQL, in addition
to the convoy closure, theyellow closure, the, the slinked
, I like all of the Drama withthem, there's a lot of just sort
(12:41):
of like a come-to-Jesus momentfor the freight industry and it
feels like this, this Meeting ofa technology, and where
technology plays a role alongwith the relationships, and I
think that the relationships issomething that has gotten lost
with the rush to tech adoptionFor a lot of these companies.
(13:01):
And so I'm curious for you, likeyou have been at Zelh for you
know four or five months now, Ibelieve.
You know you, you just recentlyjoined the team and as we're
kind of evolving into these sortof outsourcing models,
especially when it comes tofreight, you know it feels like
that.
You know I've learned about anew outsourcing company.
(13:22):
You know a few of them alreadythis year.
Is that sort of what you see isalmost the future of a lot of
traditional freight brokerageroles?
I Do.
Chris Fields (13:34):
The concept itself .
It's nothing new.
Several been around for a fewyears and they're doing a great
job.
They are primarily in LatinAmerica and the Philippines, and
that's what drew me.
Well, a couple things drew meto this team is we're primarily
in Eastern Europe and I was soused to 6070% turnover and when
(13:55):
I started meeting the staff thatwe have and the work ethic and
the education and experiencelevel, I said if we had had this
, we could have done even more.
So I think there's somethingthere, and when you get
single-digit turnover From acompany in roles like this and
they look at it as a career,instead of a 23 year old who had
(14:18):
one foot out the door the dayhe started, it makes a big
difference and I think you canreally compound the revenue
Using this model and so when youtalk about sort of the
education and the lack ofturnover, what does the employee
base that that works in freightbrokerage?
Blythe Brumleve (14:36):
Are they working in in brokerages all
across the world, or are theydedicated employees For freight
brokerages in the US?
What does sort of that I guessthe high-level Outlook look like
?
And then let's drill down tothe employee itself.
Chris Fields (14:49):
I Think you can do a couple of things.
I think you can do exclusivestaff for a, a company, where
they only Work for that company,doing some back office tracking
and tracing, whatever it may be.
I think on the agency side, youcould do more of a flex model
where you may have four or fiveagents who don't have enough a
(15:10):
book of business to support anindividual or a team by
themselves, but together, youknow, maybe one has West Coast
freight, the other East Coastfreight or after hours, and then
you have a team that justflexes across accounts.
I love that model.
I don't think a lot are doingit right now and it's something
that that we've we've started todo, and I just Think it's a
(15:31):
great option.
Blythe Brumleve (15:32):
And then from the employees side of things you
mentioned, the, the education,the lack of turnover, what?
What is it about the educatingEastern European employees
different from US basedemployees?
Chris Fields (15:48):
Okay, let's think of the Midwest carrier market,
chicago in general large, Ithink it's 23, 24 percent
Eastern European carriers inMetro Chicago.
So think about if you'renegotiating rates or you're
building a carrier network, butinstead of Chris or life calling
these carriers, it's someonewho speaks Polish, who has been
(16:11):
in the industry for three orfour years.
I think they're gonna have abetter relationship Then.
Then you or I could get andmaybe better rates.
Maybe they they pull more loadsfor you, those kind of things
and that that's interesting.
Blythe Brumleve (16:23):
you say that because there are a lot of
companies that, especially thatthere was one Woman that I
worked with and she had a wholenetwork of Russian drivers and
Russian carriers that would workwith our company Because she
spoke Russian and she was ableto have a conversation with them
and and develop that thatrelationship with them, just
(16:47):
simply based on the language,where I would almost think like
Perception wise for some, somecarriers, some customers that
they call somebody and they hearan accent, they're gonna get
frustrated, whereas I think it'sthe opposite with what you're
referring to, where it's almosta bonding moment.
Is that a safe assumption?
Chris Fields (17:06):
It is.
I'm from Kentucky and when Iwould call Kentucky carries, it
was great, but when I would callthe Bronx, but but absolutely
you're, you're spot-on, andothers have noticed the same
with the Spanish speaking side.
You know, when you're coveringloads in the Southwest, it's
there's a little bit of trustalready built in there.
Interesting, and We've noticed,noticed better margins, better
(17:28):
relationships and just morecarrier satisfaction and with
with driver turnover being Suchan issue right now, I think it
can affect that as well.
Blythe Brumleve (17:38):
Okay, I like working with them because I have
relationships with their afterhours team and so what, what you
know With a lot of the, theoutsourcing I've personally
dealt with, it's more on likethe marketing and web side of
things.
You know web development, thatkind of you know technology side
of things.
But for outsourcing, for inlogistics, specifically for a
(17:59):
brokerages, what are some of theyou know We've talked about
some of the benefits, but whatare some of the dangers that
people should be looking out forif they're thinking about
taking that leap?
Chris Fields (18:07):
I Would make sure that it's not a situation where
they're just placing bodies foryou.
I would want to be involved inthe interview process, the
selection process, speak tothose People and you make the
decision.
Not I'm looking for adispatcher, okay, here's one,
but rather Give you four or fiveoptions and have you make that
(18:29):
decision.
I would Be skeptical of workfrom home.
I'm not a big big fan of it,especially for remote.
I'd prefer them to be in officeon webcam when necessary and
then setting the the shiftsmyself.
Interesting.
Blythe Brumleve (18:44):
Yeah, because, especially with the movement
that we've heard over the lastcouple of years of hybrid versus
, you know, back in the officethere's a big debate going on,
but you, you, you're, you're inthe camp of.
Everybody should be in theoffice.
Chris Fields (18:59):
I Think so, and it's tough, I'm saying that and
they're gonna be well, they're8,000 miles away.
Well, usually we'll teams andthey're all in the office
together and there's still thatcamaraderie there, you know.
So I just think it's a plusCompared to someone being at
home and and not on webcam.
Blythe Brumleve (19:17):
What?
What do you think are some ofthe other benefits of working in
an office environment versus,you know, just working solo?
Chris Fields (19:27):
The lessons you learn and the energy you know.
We all worked through COVIDfrom home, I'm sure a lot of us
and I mean it got pretty dangboring sitting there and then I
was like I want humaninteraction again.
Blythe Brumleve (19:40):
My brother actually got a job at,
specifically picked a job to gowork because he lost his job
during COVID, unfortunately, buthe specifically picked a job
that was in office because hewas sick of staying home.
Chris Fields (19:53):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I believe it.
And then just the things youhear.
You know, maybe somebody twodesks over tried something that
you would have never tried andit worked.
Or they said something reallybad and you don't ever do that.
You know just the lessons youcan learn being around people, I
think is a big deal For sure,and I I mean for me.
Blythe Brumleve (20:10):
I love working from home, but I, you know I
have a different role.
I'm not, you know, a freightbroker, but some of the best
times that, or some of the mostinteresting things that I ever
learned, was being an executiveassistant at a 3PL and working
at a magazine where you can justNumber one.
The working at a 3PL wasdefinitely the experience of
hearing all of the drama,hearing all of the things that
(20:31):
are going on.
You know brokers yelling atdrivers and vice versa.
You know management.
You know arguing with eachother.
There's all those differentdynamics of people very
passionate about what they thinkand what they feel, and you
probably wouldn't hear that atall if you're all working from
home.
Chris Fields (20:47):
Yeah, and I mean if it's accounting and where you
need a quiet environment andyou need to be very correct on
your numbers and you know that's, that's okay, I get it.
But if it's more of that salesside of things and support, I
like being together in an office.
Blythe Brumleve (21:04):
Now, now for you, backing up just a second,
because I am I'm curious aboutthis.
So, with spending 15 years atTQL, what?
What was sort of the catalystfor moving on to Zelh?
Chris Fields (21:17):
I'd been talking to the team.
So the founding team here atZell all have been in the
industry for a decade plus andthat appealed to me.
I said so.
They know what they're talkingabout, whether it was with
Transplace or Uber.
Just a solid founding team,that, and combined with the
model itself of wait a minute,why isn't everyone doing this?
(21:39):
When I first told me about it,I said let me look into it a bit
.
I got to speak to a few of thestaff, I got to see the resumes
and I said this is genius.
This is what we need to bedoing and the landscape changing
as I think it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thinkit's shifting right now and I
think this is a big piece of it.
I was happy there.
I could have stayed another 15years, but I think it's just a
(22:03):
new, a new era we're entering.
Blythe Brumleve (22:05):
So why do you think more freight brokerages
haven't started outsourcing yet?
Chris Fields (22:12):
There's a lot of skepticism.
I don't think there's enougheducation.
I also question the talentlevel, and that's not a knock on
anyone who's who's been doingit for years.
They've been doing it a lotlonger than I have.
But if if you're looking fordata entry, clerical work, I
think it's fine to look at otheroptions.
(22:33):
But if you're looking forcustomer facing customer
interaction, I would want to bevery selective about who you
work with, and that's whatappealed to me with.
You know, we don't have to tellthese people what a dry van
load is or a flat bed load.
They know when they're ready togo, and I think that plug and
play aspect is is really, reallybeneficial.
Blythe Brumleve (22:56):
You know you mentioned earlier about the.
You know the, the education andthe training for for a lot of
the Eastern European employees.
I'm curious as to, maybe, whatthey grew up learning about
transportation versus the, the.
I guess the intricacies of theU?
S brokerage market Are thereany?
Are there any?
Chris Fields (23:14):
You would have to.
I mean it varies depending on,but a lot have worked for U S
brokerages in the past, but thenothers work for European
trucking companies, so just theterminology is similar, the, the
laws and regulations are a bitdifferent.
But would you rather have youknow a and I?
It pains me to say thissometimes, but the work ethic of
(23:36):
some of the recent collegegraduates for these entry level
roles here in the States is notthe best.
So would you rather havesomeone with experience that
could learn your operation in aweek or two and ready to go, or
someone that you really have totrain all the nuances of the
industry?
Blythe Brumleve (23:51):
So what are?
What are some of the?
I guess the let's just say youknow, in three years, most of
the freight brokerage industry.
You know the market's back, youknow you've had these sort of
market fluctuations sort ofbalance out.
Um, what do you think a modernfreight brokerage looks like in
the U S in in three years?
(24:13):
What?
What are those main departmentsthat are in office in the U S
versus the roles that they'reoutsourcing?
Chris Fields (24:21):
You know it was euphoria there for a couple of
years, with rates through theroof, everyone buying trucks and
, and I think people haveforgotten how good of a a couple
of years it was.
And then we're just coming backto reality, I think and
brokerage is moving forward, Ithink are going to be more
efficient, a little bit morelean and focus on quality people
(24:44):
in all departments.
I want the best salespeoplethat I can get, I want the best
back office, I want the bestaccounting and I think the days
of of just here's a an open role.
Just hire as many as you can.
The amount of money spent onrecruiting teams is absurd and
that, combined with the timewasted on interviews and
sourcing candidates, only tohave them leave after six months
(25:06):
, that's not.
That's not doable for for along term.
And and I I hate seeingcompanies going out of business
now because of decisions likethat being made I think they
could have been prevented.
It's definitely likedemoralizing too.
Blythe Brumleve (25:21):
You, you spend all that time and energy and
money to, you know, get a newhire through the door and then,
if they're gone, you know, withthat turnover rate that that you
mentioned, it's verydemoralizing.
And you, you just have a bunchof employees that are being
overworked and they probablywon't last as long either,
because they're they're tired ofdoing all the grunt work.
Chris Fields (25:41):
And on the other side you have a couple in that
group that are really good andit brings them down Going.
This is not a great environmentto be in.
You know, and you want tomotivate those, those eight
players, and I don't think a lotof that's happening.
Blythe Brumleve (25:53):
So, with all of your experience at you know TQL
, especially with, with, on thesales side of things, I'm
curious, with being, with yourrole now, vp of sales over at
Zell, are a lot of those salespractices the same for you, Is
it?
You know just, or does it justchange?
You know your business card, orare you doing the same sort of,
(26:14):
I guess, sales structure at thesame sales philosophy, just the
name has changed?
Chris Fields (26:21):
No, not at all.
So I'm not.
You know, all of our employeesare in Eastern Europe and all
that I do now is add to thisfounding team that, like I said,
came from Uber Transplace andthat brings a lot of credibility
.
So when we talk to a companyand we say, hey, we, we built
teams, we've been in your shoes,we know what to do and what not
to do, and we, we offer up thissolution and we'd love to talk
(26:44):
through your current operationand how it works.
And maybe, if you tweak here ortry something here, add a
person here.
I think it brings a lot aboutyou to the team.
It's refreshing, I'm excited.
Blythe Brumleve (26:55):
What are some of those mistakes that that
brokerages are making whenthey're trying to scale?
Chris Fields (27:01):
I think the recruiting team that I mentioned
I think is a lot of wastedresources there, a volume play.
I think you need to be moreselective in who you hire for
your salespeople and you know,consider, consider other options
and don't get stuck in thatWell, we've always done it this
way.
Let's keep doing it this way.
So you know there are differentmodels across the country, from
(27:25):
your cradle to grave to onesthat just focus on customer
relationships and the ones thatjust focus on customer
relationships and hand thingsoff.
So you know, find out youridentity, who you are and hire
the right people.
Blythe Brumleve (27:36):
And then, outside of that, how do you, I
guess, think about sales andmarketing when it comes to to
Zell?
Is marketing a focus right nowor maybe a focus in the future?
How do you guys think about thesales and marketing
relationship?
Chris Fields (27:52):
It's like I said, the concept isn't new.
I think it's bringing awarenessto a lot that don't know about
it, but then also letting themknow who we are.
That's been in my first four orfive months here, because they
talk to the other companies thatdo outsourcing, but the single
compliment that we get the mostis the team.
It's wait a minute, you'vebuilt teams.
(28:14):
Not everyone else can say that,so I think that's that brings a
lot of value to a company,whether they work with us or not
.
We talk through things and makesuggestions and go from there.
Blythe Brumleve (28:26):
So what would, what would your?
I guess maybe two or threethings that you think that
freight brokerages or freightbrokerages need to be thinking
about.
You know, new years coming up2024.
People are probably alreadybudgeting and planning for it
and putting those things inplace.
What should they be thinkingabout?
You know, with all of yourexperience in the freight
brokerage world and now withyour outsourcing experience,
(28:49):
what should be some of those topthings that freight brokerages
should be thinking about if theywant to survive through this
tough market.
Chris Fields (28:57):
I want to be ahead of things.
You know the I think thetypical cycle in our industry is
26 to 28 months and I read thatwe're in month 22 right now.
So it is coming.
Whether it's the beginning of24 or middle of next year, it
will change and I think thosewho make changes now will kind
of surge ahead of everyone whenit when it does flip.
(29:20):
I saw it flip many times overthe years and you know there are
good tech options out there.
It's finding the right onesthat fit your model.
Don't just buy everythingthat's that's being sold out
there.
Find the right ones that fityour company's model and get the
right people and then, when youdo have the right people, do
everything you can to keep them.
Blythe Brumleve (29:41):
They're few and far between and don't let them
go, because they're therelationship builders.
Chris Fields (29:44):
Don't let them go.
Blythe Brumleve (29:45):
You can you mentioned it earlier in the
conversation, you know walk thatfine balanced line of adopting
technology but also investing inyour top people.
All right, chris.
Yeah, anything else that youthink is important to mention
that we haven't alreadydiscussed?
Chris Fields (30:01):
No, no, it's great to talk to you.
I just think that, like we said, it's changing and I want I
don't like seeing the companiesgoing out of business.
I don't like seeing the convoy,although I'm happy about the
flex port rumors.
I think that's a great fit forformer convoy employees and flex
port.
So I hope that happens.
But you know, I built my bookon carrier relationships and
(30:25):
it's important to me.
We're nothing without them andI really think that we got to do
everything we can to help themsurvive in a tough market.
Blythe Brumleve (30:33):
Well, any tips on helping carriers also survive
in a top market.
Chris Fields (30:37):
Just don't spend you know, don't spend your time
interviewing people like wetalked about.
That might not be a good fitand we'll leave.
There are options out there.
Focus on driving revenue foryour company and then, if you
get savings, put that towardsassets or more sales people or,
you know, whatever it may be,just to help you get through
this, because it will flip againand I think we're poised to see
(31:00):
, you know, a surge next year.
Blythe Brumleve (31:03):
Awesome.
Well, I mean great, greatperspective, great insight.
Chris, where can folks followmore of your work?
You know, check out Zell.
You know all that good stuff.
Chris Fields (31:13):
Yeah, just www.
zelh.
com.
And then you know my emailaddress is chris.
fields@zehl.
com.
So happy to talk to anyone andI want to help as many people as
we can.
Perfect.
Blythe Brumleve (31:25):
Awesome.
Yeah, they're going to need itheading into, you know, 2024
with all the drama that's goingon, but hopefully the dust is
starting to settle a little bit,and I think so, especially what
it was that comparison with,like forest fires, like they,
you know, sometimes you got toburn down the forest for the new
growth to emerge, and maybethat's what we're witnessing now
.
So, again, chris, thank you somuch for coming on the show and
(31:48):
I'll put all the links tocontact you in the show notes.
Thanks, boy.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeof Everything is Logistics, a
podcast for the thinkers infreight, telling the stories
behind how your favorite stuffand people get from point A to B
.
Subscribe to the show, sign upfor our newsletter and follow
(32:08):
our socials over ateverythingislogisticscom.
And in addition to the podcast,I also wanted to let y'all know
about another company I operate, and that's Digital Dispatch,
where we help you build a betterwebsite.
Now, a lot of the times, wehand this task of building a new
website or refreshing a currentone off to a co-worker's child,
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where you probably spend moretime explaining the freight
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Well, that doesn't happen atDigital Dispatch.
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Until then, I hope you enjoyedthis episode.
I'll see you all real soon andgo Jags.
Welcome into another episode of Everything Is
Logistics, a podcast for thethinkers in freight.
We were proudly presented bySPI Logistics and I am your host
, Blythe Brumleve, today.
We got a very special guest foryou today.
It is the VP of sales at CrisFields over at Zelh Logistics.
So I'm excited to have thisconversation because you you
(00:21):
know the sort of the elephant inthe room is.
You spent 15 years at TQL.
Now you are working for Zelhfor a few months now, and so
it's an interesting dynamic ofwhat's going on in the freight
brokerage world.
So I'm excited to sort of talkthrough what you think, the
evolutions that need to behappening, based on your
experience of working in a bigtime freight brokerage, and
(00:44):
where you think this segment ofthe industry is headed.
So, chris, welcome to the show.
Chris Fields (00:49):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to it and Ihope people don't stop
listening when they first heardthat I was there for 15 years.
You know, I said this to youearlier Blythe it's there's good
, bad, ugly opinions about thecompany and I feel like I was
one of the good ones and it wasdue in large part to the carrier
relationships.
I had really transparent withmy carriers and I think it was a
(01:13):
mutually beneficial partnership.
Blythe Brumleve (01:16):
So well, hopefully, yeah, no one.
Either you turn the volume upwhen you hear TQL or you just
immediately like shut it off.
So hopefully people are turningthe volume up anytime you hear
that name because obviously youbecome the top dog for good and
bad reasons, and hopefully thegood outweighs the bad.
But there's a lot of debatearound that topic, regular
(01:38):
everything's logistics.
Listeners will probably haveheard the conversation with
Matthew Leffler who broke down alot of the interesting I guess
the interesting ruling that cameout recently with TQL versus
the classification of salaryversus non-salary positions,
especially within the freightbrokerage world.
I was an executive.
(01:58):
I was never a freight broker,but I sat next to the freight
brokers on the brokerage floorat a logistics company about,
you know, 10 years ago and itwas very much, especially
working in marketing.
It very much was okay.
We're going to go to thedifferent schools that are in
the area.
We're going to recruit thosefresh face college graduates and
we're going to sit them downand we're going to make them
(02:20):
pound the phones on all the coldleads that the other
experienced brokers never hadaccess to.
And that sounds like a lot ofwhat or not a lot, but it sounds
like it's a typical freightbrokerage model, not just for
the company I worked at but alsofor TQL.
Is that a safe assumptionacross most freight brokerages?
Chris Fields (02:40):
For the big box 3PLs.
Yes, I think it's become avolume play and when I first
started there in 2008, I don'tthink that was the case, and
I'll tell you this I applied andgot turned down on my initial
interview.
They said we're not interested.
Blythe Brumleve (02:55):
Oh, wow Do you know why?
Chris Fields (02:58):
The recruiter just said probably not a good fit
and that really fired me up.
So the next day I applied again.
I said no, we're going to talk.
So I lasted 15 years and it wasa great career.
But that just shows that backin 2008, 2009, they were a
little more selective and Ithink all of the big box, the CH
(03:19):
, they were all a little moreselective and now it's just we
need bodies in the door.
Blythe Brumleve (03:26):
And so what are those bodies taking care of
right now?
Because you hear a lot or Ihear a lot about tech revolution
and tracking visibility and itsounded like buzzwords for years
.
But to pick up another storythat that's been going on in
freight is the digital freightbrokerage and they're going to
eliminate the role of thefreight broker and you create
(03:48):
this instant visibility for allof your shipments.
What do you think that thebodies in the seats are taking
care of now at major freightbrokerages?
Is it tracking and tracing?
Is it still a combination ofthe digital freight brokerage
model versus the traditionalfreight brokerage model?
Chris Fields (04:06):
Yes, I think if you lean too far in one
direction it's a problem.
I think that hybrid of get thereally smart tech people in
there to automate what can beautomated, but then you still
need that human element.
And you still need becausedrivers still like talking to
people.
They don't want a text messagesand text back and say, hey, I'm
(04:27):
loaded or I'm unloaded.
They still like to pick up thephone and talk to people.
And I think those that findthat balance of tech and human
interaction are the ones thatwill excel the most.
Blythe Brumleve (04:40):
And so, as you spent 15 years at TQA, how did
your role evolve?
Did you start off with beingthe butts in the seats and
pounding the cold calls?
Did you start out and track andtrace it?
Tell me a little bit about yourtime and how your role evolved.
Chris Fields (04:57):
Yeah.
So I started out as anassistant on a large account and
I got to train on that accountfor 20 weeks or so and then they
said, okay, here's a desk andgood luck.
And I didn't plan to stay verylong.
I said, but if I'm going to dothis, I'm going to make more
calls than anyone else, I'mgoing to stay on the phone more
(05:17):
and I'm going to figure it outor I'm going to fail.
And so I did that.
I made thousands and thousandsof phone calls and then I said
you know what?
I'm pretty dang good at this.
And so I built a book ofbusiness myself.
I had assistance on my team, Ibuilt a large team and then,
from that point, I think thiswas probably a mistake I made is
(05:37):
I went into management fromthere, and your best salespeople
aren't always your bestmanagers and vice versa.
But that was just you know, 28year old Chris going All right,
well, that's next step, let's gointo management.
And so I went into managementand started building a team in
2010.
I actually started their Tampaoffice with six people and then
(05:59):
grew that to 250 people, so, andit's still one of their most
successful offices.
Blythe Brumleve (06:04):
So did you?
Did you go back to sales or didyou?
Did you stay in them?
Obviously, you stayed in themanagement side of things.
Chris Fields (06:10):
So I was in management for a bit and then we
found a role.
They said Well, let's get Chrisin front of some of our large
accounts, let's get him backinto selling a little bit.
So I traveled, I don't know, 35weeks out of the year visiting
some top accounts and sayinghere's what we're doing right,
here's what we're doing wrong,let's tweak it here.
And oftentimes I would meet upwith a sales rep.
(06:32):
It was his account, but theywere a little more green and
they said get Chris in therewith them and let's let's make
sure we're doing a good job.
And some of those, thosestories of seeing a green rep
visit a customer and they'venever been on a customer visit.
There were some funny, funnylittle stories there.
Blythe Brumleve (06:47):
What is a green rep?
Chris Fields (06:50):
Well, one that just started that landed a big
account who had never.
They were great on the phone,but when they put them in a
conference room with 15 or 20executives at a large Fortune
500 company, they didn't knowwhat to say.
They're going to eat them alive.
Yes, yeah, they really did.
Blythe Brumleve (07:07):
Are you in freight sales with a book of
business looking for a new home?
Or perhaps you're a freightagent in need of a better
partnership?
These are the kinds ofconversations we're exploring in
our podcast interview seriescalled the freight agent
trenches, sponsored by SPIlogistics.
Now I can tell you all day thatSPI is one of the most
successful logistics firms inNorth America, who helps their
(07:28):
agents with back officeoperations such as admin,
finance, it and sales.
But I would much rather youhear it directly from SPI's
freight agents themselves.
I want better way to do thatthan by listening to the
experienced freight agents telltheir stories behind the how and
the why they joined SPI.
Hit the freight agent link inour show notes to listen to
(07:49):
these conversations or, ifyou're ready to make the jump,
visit SPI3PLcom.
So what were some of those keydifferences that made you say,
oh, I don't know if managementis right for me.
Chris Fields (08:05):
It can be a bit of baby setting, depending on what
your team is like.
You hear about the girlfriendand boyfriend breakups and all
the noise outside of it and Ijust want my salespeople and I
want to sell and I want to driverevenue, but there's a lot of
noise that goes along with itand I think they're good
managers and good salespeopleand you've got to find your swim
(08:28):
lane For sure.
Blythe Brumleve (08:31):
Now with your experience with TQ.
I mean, obviously they're oneof the top dogs in freight.
There are obviously some stonesthat people are throwing,
trying to punch up things likethat, but what are some of the
good things that you saw?
Because you don't get to one ofthe top brokerages in the world
(08:52):
without doing some right thingor doing some correct things.
Absolutely.
Chris Fields (08:57):
Yeah, their training is top notch.
Blythe Brumleve (08:58):
Why do you say that?
Chris Fields (08:59):
And they are very upfront from day one and they
say this is what the trainingwill entail.
We're going to give you thetools to succeed.
And what you do with thosetools are up to you and I took
those and, like I said, therewas a lot of hard work, but I
was one of the top brokers foryears at their company and if
(09:20):
you needed help or you neededmore tools or support, they were
there for you.
And, like you said, you don'tget to $8 billion by accident.
Blythe Brumleve (09:29):
Right and and I think for for a lot of just the
role of the, the freight brokerin general, is just been Eve it
.
It feels like it's done a lotof evolution in the last year or
so relative to the previous 15years.
Is that a safe assumption?
I?
Chris Fields (09:47):
Think the landscape is changing now.
I think there are a couple ofthings that rolling is going to
affect how people hire movingforward, because a Lot we're
saying, well, they got here bydoing this, I can replicate it,
and now that's going to change.
I think the advance in tech isgoing to take a lot of busy work
(10:09):
off off brokers plates.
So I see us moving towards moreof an agency model and
especially the remote staffingthat has gotten so popular in
Latin America, philippines, usin Eastern Europe.
I think it's going to be moreof an agency give them
everything they need to run andand kind of, I Remove your
liabilities a little bit.
(10:29):
I know uber just started anagency program and there's
several other large ones thatthat are doing really well in a
tough market.
Blythe Brumleve (10:38):
Yeah, I mean it definitely makes a lot of sense
and I've had this conversationon the show before.
I mean, obviously you know thespoiler alert SPI logistics is a
freight agent network, proudsupporter of the show, which
isn't, you know allowed me to beable to explore these stories
more in depth and Try to findwhere you know the bright spots
are, especially in a toughmarket, and the freight agency
(10:58):
model just feels like it's one Ithink it's one of I hate to
call it like a hidden gem, butit still feels like a hidden gem
in the world of Brokerageindustries, where you can have
these top dogs who, like a SPI,who has the, the tech and the
solutions and the IT teams and,you know, the HR, the back
(11:19):
office, all of that importantthing, and Then you can have the
people who have therelationships with the customers
, with the carriers, and I thinkthat I think you're right, I
think that that's a very Hiddenentrepreneurial opportunity and
freight that not a lot of folksare paying attention to.
Chris Fields (11:37):
You're right I don't think everyone knows about
it and just the model itself oftake the accounting off their
plate, take the tracking andtracing, dispatching and just
let your salespeople sell andthen let our folks who are good
I was terrible at accounting sayI should not be doing it.
Let's take that off Chris'splate and your plate and let
(11:58):
them do what they're good at.
So I think it's only going toget more popular and, like I
said, uber announcing theirprogram and then several other
large ones.
I and the ones that have beendoing it, like SPI and your
global trends, and those thathave been doing it for years, I
think are poised to kind ofsurge ahead.
Blythe Brumleve (12:16):
And I think too , because that's one of the, the
lessons that the industry haskind of had to learn the hard
way.
You know I'll invite people ifyou want to get into sort of.
You know the, I guess the, thelawsuit details things like that
.
You know the ruling that justcame down with TQL, in addition
to the convoy closure, theyellow closure, the, the slinked
, I like all of the Drama withthem, there's a lot of just sort
(12:41):
of like a come-to-Jesus momentfor the freight industry and it
feels like this, this Meeting ofa technology, and where
technology plays a role alongwith the relationships, and I
think that the relationships issomething that has gotten lost
with the rush to tech adoptionFor a lot of these companies.
(13:01):
And so I'm curious for you, likeyou have been at Zelh for you
know four or five months now, Ibelieve.
You know you, you just recentlyjoined the team and as we're
kind of evolving into these sortof outsourcing models,
especially when it comes tofreight, you know it feels like
that.
You know I've learned about anew outsourcing company.
(13:22):
You know a few of them alreadythis year.
Is that sort of what you see isalmost the future of a lot of
traditional freight brokerageroles?
I Do.
Chris Fields (13:34):
The concept itself .
It's nothing new.
Several been around for a fewyears and they're doing a great
job.
They are primarily in LatinAmerica and the Philippines, and
that's what drew me.
Well, a couple things drew meto this team is we're primarily
in Eastern Europe and I was soused to 6070% turnover and when
(13:55):
I started meeting the staff thatwe have and the work ethic and
the education and experiencelevel, I said if we had had this
, we could have done even more.
So I think there's somethingthere, and when you get
single-digit turnover From acompany in roles like this and
they look at it as a career,instead of a 23 year old who had
(14:18):
one foot out the door the dayhe started, it makes a big
difference and I think you canreally compound the revenue
Using this model and so when youtalk about sort of the
education and the lack ofturnover, what does the employee
base that that works in freightbrokerage?
Blythe Brumleve (14:36):
Are they working in in brokerages all
across the world, or are theydedicated employees For freight
brokerages in the US?
What does sort of that I guessthe high-level Outlook look like
?
And then let's drill down tothe employee itself.
Chris Fields (14:49):
I Think you can do a couple of things.
I think you can do exclusivestaff for a, a company, where
they only Work for that company,doing some back office tracking
and tracing, whatever it may be.
I think on the agency side, youcould do more of a flex model
where you may have four or fiveagents who don't have enough a
(15:10):
book of business to support anindividual or a team by
themselves, but together, youknow, maybe one has West Coast
freight, the other East Coastfreight or after hours, and then
you have a team that justflexes across accounts.
I love that model.
I don't think a lot are doingit right now and it's something
that that we've we've started todo, and I just Think it's a
(15:31):
great option.
Blythe Brumleve (15:32):
And then from the employees side of things you
mentioned, the, the education,the lack of turnover, what?
What is it about the educatingEastern European employees
different from US basedemployees?
Chris Fields (15:48):
Okay, let's think of the Midwest carrier market,
chicago in general large, Ithink it's 23, 24 percent
Eastern European carriers inMetro Chicago.
So think about if you'renegotiating rates or you're
building a carrier network, butinstead of Chris or life calling
these carriers, it's someonewho speaks Polish, who has been
(16:11):
in the industry for three orfour years.
I think they're gonna have abetter relationship Then.
Then you or I could get andmaybe better rates.
Maybe they they pull more loadsfor you, those kind of things
and that that's interesting.
Blythe Brumleve (16:23):
you say that because there are a lot of
companies that, especially thatthere was one Woman that I
worked with and she had a wholenetwork of Russian drivers and
Russian carriers that would workwith our company Because she
spoke Russian and she was ableto have a conversation with them
and and develop that thatrelationship with them, just
(16:47):
simply based on the language,where I would almost think like
Perception wise for some, somecarriers, some customers that
they call somebody and they hearan accent, they're gonna get
frustrated, whereas I think it'sthe opposite with what you're
referring to, where it's almosta bonding moment.
Is that a safe assumption?
Chris Fields (17:06):
It is.
I'm from Kentucky and when Iwould call Kentucky carries, it
was great, but when I would callthe Bronx, but but absolutely
you're, you're spot-on, andothers have noticed the same
with the Spanish speaking side.
You know, when you're coveringloads in the Southwest, it's
there's a little bit of trustalready built in there.
Interesting, and We've noticed,noticed better margins, better
(17:28):
relationships and just morecarrier satisfaction and with
with driver turnover being Suchan issue right now, I think it
can affect that as well.
Blythe Brumleve (17:38):
Okay, I like working with them because I have
relationships with their afterhours team and so what, what you
know With a lot of the, theoutsourcing I've personally
dealt with, it's more on likethe marketing and web side of
things.
You know web development, thatkind of you know technology side
of things.
But for outsourcing, for inlogistics, specifically for a
(17:59):
brokerages, what are some of theyou know We've talked about
some of the benefits, but whatare some of the dangers that
people should be looking out forif they're thinking about
taking that leap?
Chris Fields (18:07):
I Would make sure that it's not a situation where
they're just placing bodies foryou.
I would want to be involved inthe interview process, the
selection process, speak tothose People and you make the
decision.
Not I'm looking for adispatcher, okay, here's one,
but rather Give you four or fiveoptions and have you make that
(18:29):
decision.
I would Be skeptical of workfrom home.
I'm not a big big fan of it,especially for remote.
I'd prefer them to be in officeon webcam when necessary and
then setting the the shiftsmyself.
Interesting.
Blythe Brumleve (18:44):
Yeah, because, especially with the movement
that we've heard over the lastcouple of years of hybrid versus
, you know, back in the officethere's a big debate going on,
but you, you, you're, you're inthe camp of.
Everybody should be in theoffice.
Chris Fields (18:59):
I Think so, and it's tough, I'm saying that and
they're gonna be well, they're8,000 miles away.
Well, usually we'll teams andthey're all in the office
together and there's still thatcamaraderie there, you know.
So I just think it's a plusCompared to someone being at
home and and not on webcam.
Blythe Brumleve (19:17):
What?
What do you think are some ofthe other benefits of working in
an office environment versus,you know, just working solo?
Chris Fields (19:27):
The lessons you learn and the energy you know.
We all worked through COVIDfrom home, I'm sure a lot of us
and I mean it got pretty dangboring sitting there and then I
was like I want humaninteraction again.
Blythe Brumleve (19:40):
My brother actually got a job at,
specifically picked a job to gowork because he lost his job
during COVID, unfortunately, buthe specifically picked a job
that was in office because hewas sick of staying home.
Chris Fields (19:53):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I believe it.
And then just the things youhear.
You know, maybe somebody twodesks over tried something that
you would have never tried andit worked.
Or they said something reallybad and you don't ever do that.
You know just the lessons youcan learn being around people, I
think is a big deal For sure,and I I mean for me.
Blythe Brumleve (20:10):
I love working from home, but I, you know I
have a different role.
I'm not, you know, a freightbroker, but some of the best
times that, or some of the mostinteresting things that I ever
learned, was being an executiveassistant at a 3PL and working
at a magazine where you can justNumber one.
The working at a 3PL wasdefinitely the experience of
hearing all of the drama,hearing all of the things that
(20:31):
are going on.
You know brokers yelling atdrivers and vice versa.
You know management.
You know arguing with eachother.
There's all those differentdynamics of people very
passionate about what they thinkand what they feel, and you
probably wouldn't hear that atall if you're all working from
home.
Chris Fields (20:47):
Yeah, and I mean if it's accounting and where you
need a quiet environment andyou need to be very correct on
your numbers and you know that's, that's okay, I get it.
But if it's more of that salesside of things and support, I
like being together in an office.
Blythe Brumleve (21:04):
Now, now for you, backing up just a second,
because I am I'm curious aboutthis.
So, with spending 15 years atTQL, what?
What was sort of the catalystfor moving on to Zelh?
Chris Fields (21:17):
I'd been talking to the team.
So the founding team here atZell all have been in the
industry for a decade plus andthat appealed to me.
I said so.
They know what they're talkingabout, whether it was with
Transplace or Uber.
Just a solid founding team,that, and combined with the
model itself of wait a minute,why isn't everyone doing this?
(21:39):
When I first told me about it,I said let me look into it a bit
.
I got to speak to a few of thestaff, I got to see the resumes
and I said this is genius.
This is what we need to bedoing and the landscape changing
as I think it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thinkit's shifting right now and I
think this is a big piece of it.
I was happy there.
I could have stayed another 15years, but I think it's just a
(22:03):
new, a new era we're entering.
Blythe Brumleve (22:05):
So why do you think more freight brokerages
haven't started outsourcing yet?
Chris Fields (22:12):
There's a lot of skepticism.
I don't think there's enougheducation.
I also question the talentlevel, and that's not a knock on
anyone who's who's been doingit for years.
They've been doing it a lotlonger than I have.
But if if you're looking fordata entry, clerical work, I
think it's fine to look at otheroptions.
(22:33):
But if you're looking forcustomer facing customer
interaction, I would want to bevery selective about who you
work with, and that's whatappealed to me with.
You know, we don't have to tellthese people what a dry van
load is or a flat bed load.
They know when they're ready togo, and I think that plug and
play aspect is is really, reallybeneficial.
Blythe Brumleve (22:56):
You know you mentioned earlier about the.
You know the, the education andthe training for for a lot of
the Eastern European employees.
I'm curious as to, maybe, whatthey grew up learning about
transportation versus the, the.
I guess the intricacies of theU?
S brokerage market Are thereany?
Are there any?
Chris Fields (23:14):
You would have to.
I mean it varies depending on,but a lot have worked for U S
brokerages in the past, but thenothers work for European
trucking companies, so just theterminology is similar, the, the
laws and regulations are a bitdifferent.
But would you rather have youknow a and I?
It pains me to say thissometimes, but the work ethic of
(23:36):
some of the recent collegegraduates for these entry level
roles here in the States is notthe best.
So would you rather havesomeone with experience that
could learn your operation in aweek or two and ready to go, or
someone that you really have totrain all the nuances of the
industry?
Blythe Brumleve (23:51):
So what are?
What are some of the?
I guess the let's just say youknow, in three years, most of
the freight brokerage industry.
You know the market's back, youknow you've had these sort of
market fluctuations sort ofbalance out.
Um, what do you think a modernfreight brokerage looks like in
the U S in in three years?
(24:13):
What?
What are those main departmentsthat are in office in the U S
versus the roles that they'reoutsourcing?
Chris Fields (24:21):
You know it was euphoria there for a couple of
years, with rates through theroof, everyone buying trucks and
, and I think people haveforgotten how good of a a couple
of years it was.
And then we're just coming backto reality, I think and
brokerage is moving forward, Ithink are going to be more
efficient, a little bit morelean and focus on quality people
(24:44):
in all departments.
I want the best salespeoplethat I can get, I want the best
back office, I want the bestaccounting and I think the days
of of just here's a an open role.
Just hire as many as you can.
The amount of money spent onrecruiting teams is absurd and
that, combined with the timewasted on interviews and
sourcing candidates, only tohave them leave after six months
(25:06):
, that's not.
That's not doable for for along term.
And and I I hate seeingcompanies going out of business
now because of decisions likethat being made I think they
could have been prevented.
It's definitely likedemoralizing too.
Blythe Brumleve (25:21):
You, you spend all that time and energy and
money to, you know, get a newhire through the door and then,
if they're gone, you know, withthat turnover rate that that you
mentioned, it's verydemoralizing.
And you, you just have a bunchof employees that are being
overworked and they probablywon't last as long either,
because they're they're tired ofdoing all the grunt work.
Chris Fields (25:41):
And on the other side you have a couple in that
group that are really good andit brings them down Going.
This is not a great environmentto be in.
You know, and you want tomotivate those, those eight
players, and I don't think a lotof that's happening.
Blythe Brumleve (25:53):
So, with all of your experience at you know TQL
, especially with, with, on thesales side of things, I'm
curious, with being, with yourrole now, vp of sales over at
Zell, are a lot of those salespractices the same for you, Is
it?
You know just, or does it justchange?
You know your business card, orare you doing the same sort of,
(26:14):
I guess, sales structure at thesame sales philosophy, just the
name has changed?
Chris Fields (26:21):
No, not at all.
So I'm not.
You know, all of our employeesare in Eastern Europe and all
that I do now is add to thisfounding team that, like I said,
came from Uber Transplace andthat brings a lot of credibility
.
So when we talk to a companyand we say, hey, we, we built
teams, we've been in your shoes,we know what to do and what not
to do, and we, we offer up thissolution and we'd love to talk
(26:44):
through your current operationand how it works.
And maybe, if you tweak here ortry something here, add a
person here.
I think it brings a lot aboutyou to the team.
It's refreshing, I'm excited.
Blythe Brumleve (26:55):
What are some of those mistakes that that
brokerages are making whenthey're trying to scale?
Chris Fields (27:01):
I think the recruiting team that I mentioned
I think is a lot of wastedresources there, a volume play.
I think you need to be moreselective in who you hire for
your salespeople and you know,consider, consider other options
and don't get stuck in thatWell, we've always done it this
way.
Let's keep doing it this way.
So you know there are differentmodels across the country, from
(27:25):
your cradle to grave to onesthat just focus on customer
relationships and the ones thatjust focus on customer
relationships and hand thingsoff.
So you know, find out youridentity, who you are and hire
the right people.
Blythe Brumleve (27:36):
And then, outside of that, how do you, I
guess, think about sales andmarketing when it comes to to
Zell?
Is marketing a focus right nowor maybe a focus in the future?
How do you guys think about thesales and marketing
relationship?
Chris Fields (27:52):
It's like I said, the concept isn't new.
I think it's bringing awarenessto a lot that don't know about
it, but then also letting themknow who we are.
That's been in my first four orfive months here, because they
talk to the other companies thatdo outsourcing, but the single
compliment that we get the mostis the team.
It's wait a minute, you'vebuilt teams.
(28:14):
Not everyone else can say that,so I think that's that brings a
lot of value to a company,whether they work with us or not
.
We talk through things and makesuggestions and go from there.
Blythe Brumleve (28:26):
So what would, what would your?
I guess maybe two or threethings that you think that
freight brokerages or freightbrokerages need to be thinking
about.
You know, new years coming up2024.
People are probably alreadybudgeting and planning for it
and putting those things inplace.
What should they be thinkingabout?
You know, with all of yourexperience in the freight
brokerage world and now withyour outsourcing experience,
(28:49):
what should be some of those topthings that freight brokerages
should be thinking about if theywant to survive through this
tough market.
Chris Fields (28:57):
I want to be ahead of things.
You know the I think thetypical cycle in our industry is
26 to 28 months and I read thatwe're in month 22 right now.
So it is coming.
Whether it's the beginning of24 or middle of next year, it
will change and I think thosewho make changes now will kind
of surge ahead of everyone whenit when it does flip.
(29:20):
I saw it flip many times overthe years and you know there are
good tech options out there.
It's finding the right onesthat fit your model.
Don't just buy everythingthat's that's being sold out
there.
Find the right ones that fityour company's model and get the
right people and then, when youdo have the right people, do
everything you can to keep them.
Blythe Brumleve (29:41):
They're few and far between and don't let them
go, because they're therelationship builders.
Chris Fields (29:44):
Don't let them go.
Blythe Brumleve (29:45):
You can you mentioned it earlier in the
conversation, you know walk thatfine balanced line of adopting
technology but also investing inyour top people.
All right, chris.
Yeah, anything else that youthink is important to mention
that we haven't alreadydiscussed?
Chris Fields (30:01):
No, no, it's great to talk to you.
I just think that, like we said, it's changing and I want I
don't like seeing the companiesgoing out of business.
I don't like seeing the convoy,although I'm happy about the
flex port rumors.
I think that's a great fit forformer convoy employees and flex
port.
So I hope that happens.
But you know, I built my bookon carrier relationships and
(30:25):
it's important to me.
We're nothing without them andI really think that we got to do
everything we can to help themsurvive in a tough market.
Blythe Brumleve (30:33):
Well, any tips on helping carriers also survive
in a top market.
Chris Fields (30:37):
Just don't spend you know, don't spend your time
interviewing people like wetalked about.
That might not be a good fitand we'll leave.
There are options out there.
Focus on driving revenue foryour company and then, if you
get savings, put that towardsassets or more sales people or,
you know, whatever it may be,just to help you get through
this, because it will flip againand I think we're poised to see
(31:00):
, you know, a surge next year.
Blythe Brumleve (31:03):
Awesome.
Well, I mean great, greatperspective, great insight.
Chris, where can folks followmore of your work?
You know, check out Zell.
You know all that good stuff.
Chris Fields (31:13):
Yeah, just www.
zelh.
com.
And then you know my emailaddress is chris.
fields@zehl.
com.
So happy to talk to anyone andI want to help as many people as
we can.
Perfect.
Blythe Brumleve (31:25):
Awesome.
Yeah, they're going to need itheading into, you know, 2024
with all the drama that's goingon, but hopefully the dust is
starting to settle a little bit,and I think so, especially what
it was that comparison with,like forest fires, like they,
you know, sometimes you got toburn down the forest for the new
growth to emerge, and maybethat's what we're witnessing now
.
So, again, chris, thank you somuch for coming on the show and
(31:48):
I'll put all the links tocontact you in the show notes.
Thanks, boy.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeof Everything is Logistics, a
podcast for the thinkers infreight, telling the stories
behind how your favorite stuffand people get from point A to B
.
Subscribe to the show, sign upfor our newsletter and follow
(32:08):
our socials over ateverythingislogisticscom.
And in addition to the podcast,I also wanted to let y'all know
about another company I operate, and that's Digital Dispatch,
where we help you build a betterwebsite.
Now, a lot of the times, wehand this task of building a new
website or refreshing a currentone off to a co-worker's child,
a neighbor down the street or astranger around the world,
(32:31):
where you probably spend moretime explaining the freight
industry than it takes toactually build the dang website.
Well, that doesn't happen atDigital Dispatch.
We've been building onlinesince 2009, but we're also early
adopters of AI, automation andother website tactics that help
your company to be a centralplace to pull in all of your
social media posts, recruit newemployees and give potential
(32:53):
customers a glimpse into how youoperate your business.
Our new website builds start aslow as $1,500, along with
ongoing website management,maintenance and updates starting
at $90 a month, plus some bonus, freight marketing and sales
content similar to what you hearon the podcast.
You can watch a quick explainervideo over on DigitalDispatchio
(33:15):
.
Just check out the pricing pageonce you arrive and you can see
how we can build your digitalecosystem on a strong foundation
.
Until then, I hope you enjoyedthis episode.
I'll see you all real soon andgo Jags.
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