Start Today, Not “Someday”

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
When you wake up today is when you make
the change. I wasn't born enlightened. I
fell in every hole there's out there.
When I crawled out of the hole, I said,
"That hurt. I'm not going back in that
same hole." All of us are
perfectionists. If you're always waiting
for it to be perfect, it's never out in
the world. And my race car is out
winning the race while your race car is

(00:20):
in the garage working towards perfect.
And the foundation is documented systems
that are repeatable, that are trained
on, and that the staff has a with them.
If you don't have this box orchard
today, even if it's just you and your
wife or you and your significant other,
you are forcing yourself to be small.

(00:48):
You know, you start where you are. Oh,
all my past failures and all the things
that happened that aren't right and now
I have no money and I have this stuff or
people don't you know what all of it is
when you wake up today is when you make
the change. I said I didn't I wasn't
born enlightened. I fell in every hole
there's out there and the only credit I
give myself is when I crawled out of the

(01:10):
hole I said that hurt and I dusted
myself off and said I'm not going back
in that same hole. going to fix this
because there's a lot more holes ahead
that I need to avoid. And that's really
where my my big momentum came in.
That's fantastic. Yeah. I want to start
there if that's okay with you.
Yeah. Anywhere you want to go.
Yeah. Because something tells me that

(01:32):
this concept you just laid out in 22
seconds or whatever it was is a simple
concept, but it's not easy. And I can
tell you that you know by observing and
experiencing myself for most people it
is not an easy thing to do. So uh so
let's start there. What uh
see see how skinny this book is?
Yeah. Yeah.

(01:53):
I had when I had Helina help me put this
back together. I think it's 2016.
I have 20 times more information than
this at least.
The trick is not to make it big, fat,
and complicated. The trick is to make it
simple and you can revisit over and over
and over again and get the foundation
in. And that's where it goes south.

(02:16):
Why does it go south?
Talk about everything you don't know is,
you know, all of us are perfectionists.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have reached
where we are.
But there's a double edge to that. If
you're always waiting for it to be
perfect, it's never out in the world.
and my race car is out winning the race

(02:37):
while your race car is in the garage
working towards perfect.
So at what point like how how perfect do
you have to be before you start? Is it a
50%, 60%, 80%.
You know for me was and I had again I
talked about having great mentors in my
life. One of the very big ones was Dan
Hollahan was an industry giant. I was

(02:58):
lucky that he would actually used to
ride in my truck with me and you know he
was his every one of his seminars were
always sold out and so uh became good
friends and you know really what he just
focused on is that this perfection of
mine was dampening everyone else. It

(03:18):
also causes us why don't we delegate?
We've read a million times we should
delegate.
The reason is if you ask us who's best
for any job at your company, your hand
goes up
and I understand it because the way we
emerge to the top in most case now I I'm

(03:39):
a
grow up in the business. I was eight
years old and I was at work and I was
third generation at our plumbing,
heating, cooling, electric company which
did residential, commercial and
industrial. uh my friend Ellen Roar
who's enormously known in in the
business great she was a best friend she
still is but we also co-conulted we also

(04:00):
opened up a Zoom drain franchise that
went nationwide is that she called me
she goes well you know you were born
with a silver spoon in your mouth and I
go yes I was but mine was covered with
fuel oil because that was the business
we were in having said that you know
everything was my father's philosophy
didn't go go to business, school or

(04:21):
anything. And he and my uncle, they
literally built this out of my
grandfather's gas station. It was 1936.
And then they went off to fight World
War II. And then they came back and
really got back to business rolling. And
my brothers and I didn't show up to the
late 70, early 80s when we came in the
third generation. And the good news,
like I said, is today it's on to the
fourth generation. My nephew was there

(04:42):
with my middle brother. But that takes
systems.
And it's not just people. And one of the
biggest myths because we're talking
about what nobody tells you is all of
you like me because I was not in
enlightened. I used to think, well, I

(05:02):
know I have to grow this business, and
the best way I can do that is, you know,
spend a ton of money, grow this
business, steal other people's help, and
those people will all come in here and
fix this business that's broken and make
us money. And I'm here to tell you, not
likely. No, not likely. because it's

(05:24):
failed everywhere that not only my
company but it failed everywhere that I
worked which is now 23 years in my
second career. My first career was
officially 26 years and that didn't
count all the time I was working in high
school and in college and all I'm just
talking about when I officially became
part of the business. So this is the
myth.

(05:46):
Really what it took for us to turn the
corner in the most positive way possible
was to create a foundation under our
business. And the foundation is
documented systems
that are repeatable that are trained on
and that the staff has a with them

(06:06):
what's in it from me for following along
in those things. So, the funny part
about this to me, Josh, is we're
contractors.
So, when I would come in and somebody
wanted to talk about their, you know,
fancy new master bathroom they wanted to
build on the third floor. And then I
would show up and I go, "Great. I need

(06:26):
to start downstairs in the basement."
She go, "Well, it's the master
bathroom's going to be on the third
floor." I go, "Well, if it can't support
it downstairs, it doesn't matter what
you do upstairs." And so we as business
people are busy thinking about our
penthouse of our company and we haven't
put in a foundation. So there are two

(06:48):
types of companies out there that I ever
worked with for all these years. There
were small family usually or friends who
acted like family and they got together
they worked really hard and they grew to
a certain point but what happened to
them is what happens to all of us. They
run out of hours in a day, days in a

(07:09):
week, weeks in a month. They just can't
clone themselves. So that's the problem.
They don't feel comfortable delegating
anything to anyone because their
perfectionism and the way that they
delegate is so horrible. And how do I
know? Because I didn't delegate at the
beginning, Josh. I dumped stuff on
people. And I watched the great Tommy

(07:32):
Melo, who you know because you are here
in Arizona A1 garage, he used to walk
down the hallway and kind of just peek
into rooms and talk and talk to people
about do this, do this, do this, and I
hold him back into the office. He goes,
"You think you delegated?" He goes,
"Yeah, I did." I go, "No, you didn't.
You just walked around dumping on
people. Let me ask you, are you happy

(07:53):
with their success rate of getting you
done?" He goes, "No, I'm not. I hate it.
Nobody here does it." I said that's
because you didn't delegate following a
system which is in writing you know what
is it you want done what do they have
for a reason you know as to getting it
done what would seem like a success if
you want a certain time frame how many

(08:14):
meetings are you having with them to
keep them on track and then what is
there with them do they get a bonus do
they get a job promotion what is it they
get and then you both sign off on it and
that
let me stop you right there real quick I
I uh let me stop you right there. I just
I I know what whiff means, but for the
audience, I want you to explain.
I thought you said what's in it for me,
but I'll Yeah,

(08:34):
I think we I think we just kind you we
kind of glossed over a little bit, but
what's in it for me? It's the acronym
for that. Basically saying that uh
whatever you do, especially with regard
to systems and things like this, there
has to be something in it to the person
that you're delegating this stuff to. Is
that right?
That is absolutely right. I'm glad you
spot highlighted because ultimately

(08:56):
where most of us as owners, especially
if you're a baby boomer,
is
we grew up in an era when someone like
in authority told you to do something,
our job was to go get it done. We not
about questions or anything. And the
last thing most of us were thinking
about what's in it for me whiff them.

(09:17):
But as I worked with millennials and now
the next generations that are coming
through, baby boomers look at them and
go, "Why don't they just do what I do?"
Well, that ship has sailed. It has
sailed. I have worked with and built
great millennials into top positions
starting from apprentice to junior tech
to senior tech, field supervisor, and
all the way up to general manager. In

(09:40):
many cases,
they won't do anything. Your people,
even if they're nodding their head like,
"Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But really, if you had
a balloon over their head, it says, "I
don't really care. Why should I care?"
Because I don't. And so, a breakthrough
for me was years ago at my own company,
I realized, and it was my dad, who was

(10:00):
my one of my greatest, if not the
greatest mentor, said, "Al, if you think
because you said so, everyone's going to
do it here in this union shop, you are
linked by 50 years cuz that ship is
gone." He goes, "They need to know why
they're doing anything." He was
brilliant in that way. So the
millennials that I built across this
country who are great, they want to know

(10:22):
the why. Why am I doing it? So that's
the general purpose. And then once I
know the why, well, what's in it for me?
And that is such a big point in anything
that you want to do to better set up
your company.
That's a that's a really good I got a
bunch of questions surrounding that. But
before we get to that, I kind of want to
put a little context behind the

(10:43):
importance of building systems. And I'm
hoping that you might be able to paint a
picture for us. You said that you're
third generation now moving into fourth
generation in that business. What did it
look like back in 1937 from a size
standpoint when you said that it started
to today? Like what what does that
growth look like? Can you kind of give
us a um an overview of that? Well, for

(11:05):
those of you who are watching this on
camera or listening to me, I was not
around in 1937,
but I will tell you that it was a little
gas station in a beachfront town. And so
my dad told me about my granddad because
he had already passed when I was born.
And he said, you know, my his dad, my
grandfather, he owned this gas station

(11:26):
and you know, if he felt like fishing,
he was God. And my father was anything
like that. He was all about work and you
know and and he really enjoyed it and he
loved working with people which is a
good thing. He loved talking to people
which is also good because he was
phenomenal at sales and so that's where
the company but what my company grew to

(11:46):
when I was there we were 17 million in
sales primarily in fuel oil heating that
was our first business for those who
don't live in the northeast think of
propane where we deliver the propane we
service thing that's the same thing for
fuel oil heating what I realized in the
90s was that our customers loved us and

(12:08):
they wanted us to do like plumbing and
air conditioning and things of that
nature and we said no.
And finally I turned to my brothers one
day and I said and by the way by the way
these are my older brothers.
I told them and credit to them for
listening to their snotty little young
brother. I said if we don't get into

(12:28):
these trades we are letting other people
into our customers basement and we're
going to get locked out. So that's what
was the driver to get into plumbing, gas
heating, air conditioning, and finally
electrical. That's really what motivated
that way. So today, and I also realized
fuel oil day was was passing because at
one point when I was there, we had 17

(12:49):
trucks. Now they're probably down to I
don't know, four or five maybe running
every day. So that's a dramatic change.
And the money today comes primarily
plumbing, heating, cooling, electric.
And that's pretty much what we
mastered. And really mastering it takes
documented systems that I was speaking
to. And
this was I realized by reading the great

(13:12):
book and it's kind of funny to me
because 30 years ago both Dan Holly and
who I talked about and Ellen Roar both
said to me because they saw me I was 50
pounds heavier than this. To say I was
eating my stress is the most. Now, we
have really good food in New York City,
but trust me, I was overindulging
because I felt so much stress. And so,

(13:33):
and I wasn't sleeping at night. Let's
face it. Who who most contractors sleep
at night? I had a phone next to me. We
were lit literally a 247 365. And people
go, "Well, everybody is." No, you're
not. In the way we were. We literally
had people in a trucks in shifts 7 to 4,
8 to 5, 10 to 7, 2:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.

(13:55):
In the dead of winter, 5:00 p p.m. to 2
am. People were on
working, not being on call.
Wow.
And we answered our phones 247. We were
talk about a high pressure never sleep
24/7 365 and with the nicest people that
you could ever imagine in New York City
and Long Island who were extremely

(14:17):
patient and by the way that's New York
sarcasm for those who are thinking what
yes that's New York sarcasm. Um, so it
was a high pressure, high stake. And
even if you just even the industrial we
used to do. We had a dry cleaner was
served back when if you people who were
old enough to know that the airlines
used to give you a pillow, a blanket. So
they used to have to send a dry cleaner

(14:39):
and we'd serve those dry cleaners
specialized.
When that high-pressure boiler system
went down, they couldn't work. So there
are 200 people in this factory and they
have all their orders that they
promised. You want to feel pressure to
get that equipment back online? Trust
me, I know what pressure is.
Yeah.

(14:59):
Yeah. No kidding. So, so that 17 million
in sales, is that today or was that when
you joined?
That was back when I was there in the
90s. As to what they are today, I don't
know. But here's what I can assure you
because people are very curious.
Yeah.
Um,
my brother and my nephew are killing it
in the best way possible. No competition

(15:21):
has closed the gap. If you think they do
stuff exactly the way I did it the day I
walked out the door uh in 200
2001, September 2001 was my last day
there. Of course not. They do some
things as well as we used to do because
momentum inertia works both ways in good

(15:41):
and bad. Some things they actually do
better because I was the roadblock to
innovation and things go on
and some things they've done worse. I'm
I'm sure that's the case, but are they
rock solid? Are they really, you know?
Yeah, they are are to this day.
Great. So, I want to I want to touch on
that a little bit. Obviously, you've got

(16:02):
experience working in a family business.
A lot of times, especially in the trade
industries, you know, I find this to be
common, right? You know, it uh it passes
on from generation to generation. Now
we're kind of in a period where uh maybe
the next generation isn't as interested
as taking on that that style of business

(16:22):
or whatever than previous generations.
But I guess my first question around
family business is how in that dynamic
do you navigate the perceived
nepotism or uh you know family dynamic
or drama or whatever could come with

(16:45):
being in a family business. How do you
navigate that for yourself and for your
employees?
Well, I can tell you I'll start back at
the beginning is when I came into the
business, my dad, who was a really nice
guy, not because he was my dad, he just
was a really nice guy, he said, Al, I
owe you an opportunity, not a guarantee.

(17:05):
And so, that's really important. And he
also then went on to say, you're not
starting at the top, you are starting at
the bottom. And you're not reporting to
me. Don't come back to me and tell me
what these other people because that's
who you report to. and that's who is
going to be your boss. And you've got to
prove yourself. And frankly, you're
going to be held to an unfair standard.

(17:26):
And it was true. I had to do more, not
less than everyone else. I had to be
faster at what I was doing. I had to
have less call backs. That was just the
nature of it. I remember talking the
stories. My my some of our drivers could
take the truck, wrap it around a
telephone pole, and you know, my dad, my
uncle would say, "Don't do that again."
And I would come back with a little

(17:47):
scratch and they go, "What's wrong with
you? How come you like it's it's unfair,
but
for those who there was the owner of New
York Yankees, not the one today, it was
George Stein Brener and um that's really
the line that I always go back to about
this thing, nepotism, the rest of it."
So

(18:07):
a reporter was asking him, you know, was
talking to him about, you know, really
your success comes from the, you know,
the ship building business in Cleveland
that your dad started. So he looks and
he smiles and he goes, well,
the first job I had was bailing out my
bankrupt father's business to get back
on track to go off and do the things

(18:29):
that I did. But here's what I knew. as a
son in a father's business. If I go off
to wild success, it's only because of
the head start he gave me. And if I do
poorly, it's because I'm a screw-up. And
then you have to accept that as part of
it. Having said that too, which is and I

(18:50):
was going to talk about this anyway, the
ORC chart. Yeah,
it's it's an org chart box or chart
which shows all the boxes and the
reporting order is essential for any
business but is my belief it's a hund
times more important in family business
where the husband and wife are fighting
with each other about whose job it is.

(19:12):
Kids come in, people see them like
promoted over them. There's a lot of
different things. So onetoone clients
that had children coming in. I spent a
lot of time talking about listen I've
been that child and I also rose to bring
the next generation up and I know the
dos and don'ts. So if you're interested
I'll share that with you but everything

(19:33):
we're doing is going to make it more
sustainable for them to come on board
and if you want to exit and for them to
ascend. It's a really good thing. So I
was working with a great contractor.
He's just unfenal in the Midwest. And u
so he had a big metal wide openen shop

(19:57):
and in that shop was his house. His home
was built into it. And I said to him, I
said, "Why is the home here?" He goes,
"Allef, if I didn't have the home in
here, I'd never see my young kids." and
he said, 'When I get big enough and grow
and that's what you're here for and we
get this under control, I'll go buy a

(20:17):
house and we'll make that into an office
or something. So,
one day I'm sitting there waiting for
him to finish up something. I'm on the
couch sitting with his two kids and his
son is like, I don't know, maybe 10
years old and we're just chatting and
carrying on.
Life goes on.
He's he and his wife come to me one day

(20:39):
and they tell me my son who's now 17.
He doesn't want to go to college. Can
you talk him into it? And I go, "No, I
can't because I believe in the
business." And that's not I went to
college. I'm not saying no. I have an
engineering degree. I never practiced a
day in my life. And I did work six
months a year while I was going to
college. Having said that, I can talk to

(21:02):
him if you're with me and I'll tell him
the following thing.
You're going to start at the bottom.
You're going to report to everyone other
than your parents. And if you can take
it and succeed and work your way up, two
things happen. People are not going to
think it's because of nepotism alone
that you've risen up. You can go like my

(21:23):
dad told me, I had to be able to do
anything and everything that I ever
asked anyone else to do. And I will tell
you, Josh, when I was young, I didn't
like that idea. But as I got older, I
realized the wisdom of it. I actually
built into my speech when I would be
recruiting and hiring because I did it.
The hiring and recruiting I felt was so
important. Even as big as we had gotten,

(21:44):
we were 70 people. I would still do that
because I felt it was that important.
And one of the things I said to him is,
"You're in the right place if the
following scenario is good to you. If
I'm not going up a ladder in the dead of
winter to work on a unit on the rooftop,
you don't have to go. But if I'm going,
you better be following me or you should
get up and leave right now. That was

(22:06):
really kind of the thing. So the great
story at the end of this thing is this
kid just flew off the org chart and to
this day has just achieved it the best
way possible. So does that kind of but
the ORC chart really is a big thing. I
can tell you where the birth of the ORC
chart is. This is a story we have time
to share.
Oh yeah, absolutely. We got plenty. We

(22:27):
never had an ORC chart. Remember I told
you we started out of gas station 1936
in around the early 1990s we still
didn't have an orchard because the
essence of our father's message was
hurry up go do something and the money
will follow and I'm here to tell you is
most of the time but not always you know
we we never did a budget till I met

(22:49):
Ellen and next and did was involved to
do actual budgeting
they would come in our year was
September for some quirky reason was the
end of the year. So they come in the end
of August and go, "Congratulations. You
had a great year. Go buy something for
yourselves. Get some new trucks. Do
whatever you want to do." And we like
that. But the next year they'd walk in

(23:10):
and go, "Wasn't as good a winter. Uh
we're not showing the profit we need to
do. So all of you guys are not getting
paid." Speaking guys, me and my older
brothers. So he said, "I hope you have
money in your bank account." That was a
pretty miserable way. So my advocation
to you and my
wholehearted. The thing is the sooner
you learn how to do real world budgeting

(23:34):
and yes to this day this book still has
great traction. Ellen Roar, R O HR,
Where Did the Money Go is the first book
you read. And the second book you read
after that in sequence is how much
Should I charge? And that was really the
first time we ever worked out a budget
because
did I mention I'm not enlightened, Josh?

(23:55):
I wasn't born.
No, you've you've said that a couple of
times now.
Yeah. So, I'm going to lean on that.
Well, you're thinking, well, come on.
How how much? We used to buy a motor for
$30. We used to pay you Josh $30. We
used to charge a hundred and figured,
"Wow, we got $40 of free profit here."
And

(24:15):
it wasn't until we did our first budget
in the early 1990s. And I'm sitting down
doing the budgeting and it comes out to
$150
selling breads. $150 an hour. So, the
first thing I figured out was how much
would a toilet cost? And it came out to
$400.

(24:37):
And my brother Richie is over my
shoulder and he goes, "Oh, that can't be
right. Do it again." So I did it again
and it came out to the same price. And I
looked at him and I go, "There's
actually great relief here." Because
what it reinforces is not everybody is
our customer. Because that was one of
the myths that's always told, "Well,

(24:57):
everyone can buy from us." And I'm here
to tell you, no, not everyone is your
customer. So, we got much more dialed in
on who our customer is, what makes them
tick, how could we build the value for
that. I actually became really good
because I knew right away when we did
this pricing
was the three most problematic clients

(25:19):
would be the biggest problem.
Family members,
friends, house of worship. So, I worked
out a little thing and it would be
basically like this. Josh, thank you for
the opportunity to come to your home and
for the work to to do. Be aware we may
be higher than some other people, so
you're entitled to know why. Our guys

(25:41):
are trained and certified here, criminal
background, drug tested. I'm not sending
anybody to your house that's not that
way. They will have a fully stocked
truck. They have been trained by us in
here, not at your house learning how to
do the job. They'll look around, make
sure they don't miss anything. They will
quote you a price before they begin. And
when they do the work, they're going to
bring you up to make sure you know how

(26:02):
everything works and they're going to
ask you one question. Is everything
clean enough for you? And if not, tell
me right now because it will be. If
there's an issue, we'll be back. Which
is why we have a better warranty than
anybody else out there. If that's
important to you, we're the right
company. And I actually built it into
the marketing because it was so good. It

(26:23):
was the what I taught what we did and
what I taught every customer is every
customer need every company needs to
know 10 reasons to choose you. So ours
was it doesn't matter who's coming to
your house. Al, Tom, Frank, we all have
one of a kind operating manuals. We
follow a system so we don't miss
anything. Number two is we don't come to

(26:44):
your house like all the other companies
and learn their job here. We have a
in-house training center,
state-of-the-art, where we have
practiced all of these skills, which is
why number three, we have the best
warranty out there. And I would just
literally go trekking down the list.
Crimly background, criminal background
testing, drug testing, which today is
more standard, but think 1990s, this was

(27:06):
totally ahead of everyone.
Wow. No, that's uh I I really appreciate
you just kind of going into the detail
that you're going into because I think
that's what helps internalize and some
of our audience and our listeners and
our viewers, you know, how they can
implement this stuff into their
business. I want to I want to backtrack
a little bit just to talk um some more

(27:27):
on the family side of things, you know.
So,
this is uh uh admittedly something that,
you know, I'm I'm experiencing as well.
Obviously, my my dad started uh started,
you know, my business, the Windy City
Equipment, you know, and then I came in
about 5 years later. And uh one of the
things I struggle with, Al, and this is

(27:49):
a recent revelation, right? But one of
the things I struggle with is kind of
one of the things that that you spoke
to, and I want to unpack that a little
bit for the audience in case anyone else
has the same thing, but where does that
being given the opportunity
end? and earning begin, right? And when
I say that, I mean, you know, I was

(28:10):
given this opportunity almost to the
same extent, right? I owe you an
opportunity, not a guarantee, right? So,
kind of almost in that same realm. Well,
and you know, when when I came into the
business, we were doing $200,000 a year.
Now, we're on the cusp of somewhere
around 12 million. So, not huge, but
but that's big to me.
Big big jump, right? And so it's it's

(28:33):
one of those things that like I I am
eternally grateful for the opportunity
that uh that I was given, you know, but
where's the line between taking uh
ownership over, you know, what part of
that was mine? Now, obviously, I didn't
do it alone. It's not what I'm saying,
you know, but where do you understand
what I'm what I'm asking?
I totally get what you're saying. And um

(28:54):
I've got two parts to this is one is
that box or chart that I'm talking
about.
Yeah. And the way that it came about
speaking to family. My brother Marty was
the inside guy. He never really worked
in the field. And so he would show up
about 6:00 a.m. and he one day he he was

(29:14):
answering the phone and a lady was
screaming at him about a no heat call.
So he goes across the hallway and starts
screaming and hollering at the service
manager.
So, by the time I walk in, it's 6:30.
The service manager is on top of the
roof almost ready to jump, literally.
And my first job of the day is to walk

(29:35):
them down back.
Yeah.
And then I'm sitting at the dispatch
desk at 6:30 because I used to like to
set the day up as best I could. And I
get a phone call from one of our
suppliers. So background here is my dad
told myself and my brothers while we
were young boys, you always take care of
your supplier first before you take care

(29:55):
of yourself because push comes to shove,
they'll take care of you. Which is
another brilliant thing he said was
filed deep in my head because Hurricane
Sandy showed up and wiped out our whole
service area of Long Island and our
vendors were champs. We lost 20 trucks.
Enterprise took care of us. We had stuff

(30:18):
piled to the ceiling because our vendors
really understood that we were partners
versus what I had grown up which was
adversarial. It's not like I have to
wrestle with you about price. We had
really worked hard for this to be
mutually beneficial. So anyway, I he
says, "Well, you know, Al, you overlook
the bill and I understand it's busy. I'm

(30:39):
sure it'll come up." I go, "Okay, no
problem." And I race across the office
to the accounts payable person and I
start screaming and yelling at them. And
now Marty's job was to walk that person
off the roof.
And we are standing between
departments in the hallway where
everyone can hear this. And I look at

(31:01):
Marty and go, "If you don't like the way
the service is being done, you tell me
and I'll fix it." and he looks at me and
he goes, "Well, if you don't like the
way the bills are being paid, you tell
me and I'll fix it." And we just looked
at each other and goes, "You know,
that's really good. We should actually
kind of document that."
The orchart. But the point of this is,
yeah,

(31:22):
everybody thinks there's people go,
"Well, when I get bigger, I'll get an or
chart." And here's what I want to say
because we are here. Everything they
don't tell you. If you don't have this
box or chart today, even if it's just
you and your wife or you and your
significant other, you are forcing
yourself to be small. But the truth is,

(31:43):
you're running around all day long
filling all these boxes. And that's
particularly normal. And if you ever
want to be able to hand these boxes off,
you need to know what the boxes are and
what goes on in the boxes. Which swings
back to you, Josh. How do I know that
you're filling that? because you're
handling the 80% of what goes on in

(32:04):
those boxes and the four to five KPIs
and KPIs are known performance
indicators. Not 400, not 500. Don't tell
me about this NASA space center thing
that you have with a 100 screens because
it just drives me crazy. Four to five
KPIs for every box that moves the needle

(32:27):
in the right direction. So
yeah,
does that help a little bit to what you
were speaking to?
No, it does. It does. No, I appreciate
that and and the expansion on the uh on
the org chart too. I think even more
clarification is is incredible there. I
also had a question when we were talking
about uh delegation and this kind of
ties in with the org chart too. Being
able to actually identify that and

(32:47):
delegate those tasks. You know, the way
I've always worked is is kind of like
you, right? I I would take everything on
and I would I would struggle to delegate
it. But once I once I understood that
like it was necessary, when I started to
uh not be able to fulfill my duties
because I just had so much on my plate,
it almost like would birth another one
of those boxes right in the or or chart.

(33:09):
And um but here's here's where I have
struggled in the past and I think that
several entrepreneurs, builders, you
know, scalers out there are struggling
too. What's in it for me? How do you
convey that? What is in it for them? And
how do you, you know, h how do you
actually get them to number one
understand that? And number two, believe

(33:30):
you.
So for the people who are building the
business, the people at the top is
really what we're speaking to about now.
You can't really be at the top. Oh, you
can put your name in the box, but the
dirty secret we all know is you're
running around handling every box
beneath you. When people ask me, "Oh, I

(33:52):
don't know where my day goes." I know
where your day goes because this is
where it went me.
Josh got a minute.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Josh got a minute. And everyone is
entitled to come to you because you
didn't get the foundation in. The most
important manuals
are not at the top. They're at the

(34:12):
bottom. Again, if you were building a
home, you would start with a solid,
strong foundation for the house you're
building today and it can handle the
expansion to where you want to go. And
that's really what it is is everyone who
sits along that top line, their job is
to get everyone that reports to them
following the manuals and the associated

(34:33):
training that goes with it. Because
manuals are the backbone, the skeleton
if you will, and additional training,
whether it's video or classroom training
or side by sides, which is what you do
in the office, or ride alongs to augment
that. That's really how you get them to
own their box. In our particular case,
we dramatically changed our business

(34:55):
when it was actually my brother Richie
and I were young men at the time. We go
to a workshop and the guy on the stage
is saying the average age of the tech is
going to be 55 and I think we were 30 at
the time and we go, "Oh heavens, I
cleaned it up. This is a mess." And we

(35:16):
got busy building a hands-on training
center so we could build our own people.
And we were a union shop. And they would
get out in the field, Josh. And then
invariably a year or two later, Richie
would be out in the field because he was
the very best tech of all of us. And uh
he would say to me, "Didn't you show him
motor rotation?" I go, "Of course I
did." And then he would call up about

(35:37):
some other thing. Didn't I show him
about something or other? I go,
"Ritchie, they've been out of my
training for a year or two. There's
nothing to lean on." So that caused us
to back up and create the manuals. And
when we got done
creating the manuals and we looked at
the training center, we knew we had
built it all wrong.
Mhm.

(35:58):
Which was crushing. But I've built
generations of training centers
because the manuals inform what trades
and tasks and things that you do so that
you can build the right training center.
So that in tech's case there's sales,
operation, technical performer. Three
things is how I judge a sale a service

(36:19):
tech. And here is where I'm going to
train them on that. And the more I make
it look like a where they're going to
work, the better it is, the higher
level. And even installers have to be
good at communication, operations, and
technical. And this is again where I
train them on this. And so that they the
change became I read a book employer of

(36:41):
choice and what I took away from this
all those years ago was if we could
offer a career versus just a job we win
and that just spread like wildfire in
our company is you can't stay an
apprentice at our company Josh it's just
a gateway in here no matter how great an
apprentice you are your job is to earn

(37:02):
your way to class and we specifically
spelled out how that is in our staffing
program to you have to go to apprentice
to junior tech and all that really means
is our trade manuals are this big.
You're going to get trained on this much
and volunteer to come through this
training and when you graduate you get
your own truck you make more money you
go out and prove yourself and when you
prove yourself six months a year we'll

(37:23):
bring you back and we'll teach you the
rest of what we didn't teach you in
junior tech to senior tech. Plus we were
having a brain drain at our company. We
had um 25 techs at that time. We had
those shifts I talked about. Problem was
nobody was in charge of a shift of four
people. So everybody was like, "What?"
So we created field supervisors, but

(37:43):
they would just pluck them out of the
air. And field supervisors really their
job is to the way you do it, right?
Senior tech to field supervisor is they
qualify,
they compete, and whoever wins trains.
So qualify, compete, and train. That
takes all of these systems that I keep
talking about to be able to do it

(38:04):
because otherwise if you and I Josh were
both field supervisors and somebody
rides with us, I'm gonna judge them on
my opinion and you're going to judge
them on your opinion and they're not
going to be the same.
Sure.
So this is where it's really unfair.
People ask me, "How did you get this in
at in a New York City union shop?" And I
said,

(38:25):
"The reason it went through is I had
taken a guy who was flipping pizzas and
I got him to be one of our, we had five
installed crews working every day. He
became one of our best installers."
And it's a while ago, so don't get
upset. I slid the window open and I
handed him out the job folder, which was
paper at that time. And I go, "Read it

(38:46):
over. Make sure you know everything
because I can't get there at 10 o'clock.
I'll get there around two o'clock." And
he goes, "Oh, I got it. It's not a
problem. I get to the h the house and
I'm going around the basement where the
heating system was put in and I am
muttering every four-letter word that a
New Yorker knows. And I said, "Come with

(39:07):
me out to the truck." And I looked at
him and I go, "This is nothing like what
I wanted." And he looks at me, he goes,
"Your brother showed up, Richie, and
said, "Do it this way."
And for the first time in my life, I
realized our company had no way of doing
anything that was systemized. And I'm

(39:29):
proud to say that I could go to a job
today and know it's our job.
Yeah.
Even though the technology has changed,
I just know our footprint. So the he
actually So we got the manuals together
because they were sick of having four
levies show up plus managers. It wasn't
just us just coming in there from out of
space and tell them no, that's not what

(39:49):
we want. And why? because we couldn't
read your mind. So he coined the phrase,
do what's in the book, you're off the
hook. Now, of course, today it's all on
tablets and digital, but it's still the
same thing. It's the same way. Your
people are sick of you them waking up
one day thinking they're doing a good
job and then you just come in and say,

(40:10):
"No, it's that's not what I wanted." And
based on what? And one step I want to go
back Josh to is delegation is a very
powerful tool in writing done right with
everything I talk about. But it's not a
replace for org charts and manuals that
cover all the boxes and the trade system
because you think you can delegate and
delegate and delegate. You can't

(40:31):
delegate everything. Otherwise it's like
this big white wall covered with post-it
notes. It's not how to do it. Delegation
is for a oneoff thing. We're going to
pay you to get the model truck set up.
We're going to delegate this and help
get the warehouse back in shape.
Delegate this. And matter of fact,
speaking of sons, I work with a great

(40:52):
guy up in Maine and his he wanted his
his son now wanted to enter the business
at this point. And he goes, "What do you
think we should do?" I go, "Well, your
warehouse has become a mess." And you
both we both know what it should be. We
have the pictures documented. So, I
would give your son the chore and
delegate this task to him and we'll find
out whether or not he's into it and

(41:14):
spending the time doing it. And of
course, he nailed it.
Yeah.
And started to put the his career
because the whiff for him is I want him.
Very cool. That's so what about what
about the whiff for uh for the support
staff for people in accounting for
people in dispatch for you know when
you're when you're implementing these

(41:35):
KPIs you're delegating these duties
you've got these boxes you know like you
said at the very beginning of the
episode just like having the job isn't
enough today right people have to know
what's in it for them so what's in it
for them and how do you convey that
well I think they they need to know the
why okay
too which is the bigger why is there are

(41:55):
2,00 what we used to share is there are
2,000 other companies out there and no
one is trained like we are. So we're
actually out there protecting the
public. We are plumbers that keep bad
water from good water. We're heating
guys that help houses be warm but not
overheated. Cooling guys that help
houses get cool but not over cold. And

(42:18):
electrical where the lights aren't
blinking. These this is why we do what
we do. Now you're and I actually told
these guys I said I want you to be as
selfish as you can be but then you have
to tell me why that's good for a
customer first.
So I'm offering a career not a job. And
they went from apprentice to junior tech

(42:38):
to senior tech to field supervisor. Some
of them moved over to be big ticket
salespeople. Some moved to sales
manager. Some moved up to service
manager guys that general manager. Even
in the inside CSRs, when you get bigger
and you have more CSRs, you're going to
need a lead CSR.
And then if you get bigger than that,
you're going to need a customer service

(42:59):
manager. So there is this room in
growth. And the same thing applies to
dispatcher. There's a dispatcher, then a
lead dispatcher, and then, you know,
dispatcher service manager. So there is
growth in that area. No question about
it.
Awesome. I appreciate that. I want to
check in and and just make sure. Do you
need a break or anything? You want to

(43:20):
take five? Uh, you know, we'll probably
go for another half hour, 45 minutes if
you got the time.
We are in Arizona, as you know, and so
the only thing I really need is water
because I think the audience and you
know, I am still passionate about all of
this.
Yeah, I can tell. I can tell. I I

(43:42):
appreciate that. Uh, if if at any point
you got to step away for a minute, just
let me know. I know this long form
stuff, you know. Um,
yeah. I just wanted to talk a little bit
and I don't know if we covered it
earlier, but
because we're talking about everything
they don't tell you.
Yeah.
Don't think you're not smart enough. I'm
going to tell you right now. And Ellen

(44:03):
and I used to work together and she was
I'd be driving and she'd be sitting in
the passenger seat and one day she says
to me, "Who would you say were some of
our best clients who got the most
success?"
And I didn't take my eyes off the road.
And I go, I know most people would like
me to say the very smartest of them. And

(44:26):
you and I both know that's not true. And
it's even though it's generalization,
which is always a problem,
the really smartest of them always had
to make it harder than it was supposed
to be.
So she worked in Excelss. They wanted a
she had a sheet that worked perfectly
with ending in letter G for a row. But

(44:47):
they wanted H I J K L M. And then what I
had to explain to them is if you stick
with Ellen's foundation here, she can
compare you with other shops know how
easily you're off track, but if you're
bent on making this more complicated. So
I had to come up with an analogy.
You know, you're out of shape. You know,

(45:08):
you haven't been really doing your
exercise and you realize, you know what,
I've got to start running. So I think
I'm going to join an a marathon.
So that's not a good idea. Tell you
what, why don't we see if we can run a
half a mile? Then why don't we see if we
can run a mile? Why don't we enter a 5K?
Why don't we The point of this is clear,

(45:29):
right?
So that's the same for you wherever you
are today. This is where we start and
don't believe the myth that you have to
be this brilliant you know person
because generally the success was for
us. client said, "Al, you're here to

(45:49):
help move me where I want to go." So,
for me to tell you what I what I think
should be. I will give my input and I
go, "Great." Because I don't want you to
sit in a chair and just sit down and
I'll just tell you what to do. You need
to know your why I'm telling you this
and what is it that you want to know and
what you understand because if you

(46:10):
don't, there's no chance you can
transmit that to the rest of the team.
So
owners also have a myth is well you know
what my managers will get this all done
and I'll go again with maybe they will
maybe they won't but more times than not
there were only a couple in the 23 years

(46:31):
of when I was doing oneonone work where
the owner didn't want to be involved and
he wanted me to work with their managers
and every time we did that it was a
complete failure and the reason was
simple we worked hard we did the
systems, got these all in place. The
managers thought they had the buy in of
the owner and then the owner comes out
from behind the bushes and goes, "Who
said this was okay?" And that was it. It

(46:54):
was gone. So the owner doesn't have to
do the work of implementing all these
systems, but they have to be a part of
it
and they have to know what's going on
before they can just start to ease their
way out, which is a good thing so that
the other people can rise up, but not
just disappearing. Yeah, that makes
sense. What's a what's another myth? You

(47:16):
know, we hear a lot about this uh this
coined phrase work life balance. What's
a what's a myth about work life balance
that you've come to find?
Well, if you're not sick of hearing
Ellen's name at this point, she used to
love to give me books. And one one day
she gave me and my my customer Jim Corni

(47:37):
was originally Zoom Drain in 2005 and it
was really a mess. and he had five guys,
couldn't get dressed right, trucks were
messy, and he was from the Air Force,
really neat and clean and stuff. On day
one that I'm there to do my first
program called Planning Power, he says
to me, "Al, I would really like to

(47:58):
franchise this company and I slowly move
my eyes from left to right and I go back
and I said, "Jim, let's see if we can
get them dressed right and here on time
before we go franchise this. we'll turn
the clock 2011 they're already a great
place. Ellen's finished her time at uh
Ben Franklin and so we did do the

(48:19):
franchise thing. So she gives Jim Krendi
and me the book 4hour work week
and I read it and then I called Jim up
and I go what do you think? He goes this
was the worst effing book I ever read in
my entire life. He goes, I used to and
he he actually said more about guys on
the stage, you know, that have succeeded

(48:42):
and we know it's a lot of great guys,
but they get on the stage and they say,
you know, don't chase success and, you
know, spend more time with your family
and the two of us go, that's the end of
the story. It's not the story where most
of us are. Does that make sense? Mh.
And so
my story that I always share is that

(49:07):
I was on vacation when I would be lucky
enough to be on vacation, but I really
wasn't on vacation because my phone was
ringing all the time.
Yeah.
And so there my wife and I every five
phone calls coming in. And after one
vacation, I just looked at her and I go,
I know we have two young girls and I'm
not around a lot, but I'm gonna be

(49:30):
around less, so you ought to know why.
I'm going to put all the systems in
place. I'm going to get all these guys
trained up from scratch instead of
trying to rewire industry retreads. I'm
going to take willing apprentices with
no skills to willing techs with great
skills. And I need two years.
And she said, "Well, then do what you

(49:50):
have to do to her credit." And so we're
on vacation. And I don't know why I
picked two years, Josh, but I did. And
two years later, we're on a beach and
vacation's wrapping up. And I turn to
her and I go, "Natalie, did you notice
anything?" She goes,
"Oh, yeah. Yeah, your phone wasn't

(50:11):
ringing all the time." And it had come
to pass. So this point about work life
balance,
you have to work on the business. That's
that's the great book E-Myth Changed my
life by Michael E. Gerber. And what I
love is it was very big in the 90s and
now it's got a new life again today.

(50:32):
It's very popular and for a good reason.
So what it told me because my friends
insisted I read it. Remember I was 50
pounds heavier. It was if you're always
working in the business and never on it,
nothing's going to change. And that was
what I needed to hear. So now I knew why
it didn't work. And what he then walked
into the next thing, which is unless you

(50:52):
have documented systems,
then you really can't run your fancy
hotel, which he talked about, or any
business. So I had the why and I knew
what I needed to do, but I didn't have
the how. But I'm really good at how. I
hired my great industry friend Dan
Holland because for years I was trying
to sit, you know, with a keyboard and

(51:13):
create my own manuals and everything I
wrote came out like an a law book
article 1-6.35.
Try and get that down New York City
union shop or anybody. It was horrible.
Wasn't worth the computer space that I
was trying.
One a one a Roman numeral too.
Yeah.
Yes. So I had to hire him and we had all

(51:37):
these meetings we spent 150,000 in
today's money for a fraction of what is
now in my program today and I didn't
even know what I didn't know but even
with that we paid it off within two
years because we drove call backs down
which is running back for unnecessary
stuff because that was always robbing us
of new money and we had way more calls

(51:58):
than we could humanly do. but also set
up the stage so we could build our own
pipeline of text, which we did. And I'm
happy to say majority of my customers
during COVID when all of you guys were
out there, oh, I can't find great text.
Well, no kidding.
They already had their own pipeline and
they were just riding along through
COVID and every day because they found

(52:19):
this is the path that you really have to
go along. So when you talk about life
balance, the story that I will then
share again and I've said it a number of
times because it still affects me and I
you probably can hear in my voice
because it still feels true to today. My
oldest daughter Pam had a recital and I
I always made it to every recital. I was

(52:41):
the only dad in the back. Think of a
camcorder because it was so long ago.
But um
there's a parent teacher conference and
Natalie goes and teacher says that Pam
says she could wish she could see her
dad more. And Natalie goes ballistic.
See her dad more. He's the only dad in

(53:03):
the back of the room. There's no other
dads back there. And once Natalie shared
that with me, I was busted. I was so
busted because
I would run to there from a customer I
had been at or a job that wasn't going
right and I'd be filming, but I wasn't
thinking. I was never where my my head
was never over my feet. And I was

(53:24):
thinking about where I had to go to
next. And that was another driver for me
to finally get control. And for those
who are not sick yet, Dan also gave me
the line that I'll never forget.
which is either you get out in front of
this or be prepared to be run over by it

(53:45):
over and over again. So, switching from
being a firefighter to a fire preventtor
is what will change your life.
Very well said. Thank you. Um, I'm I'm
noting some noticing some associations
here, you know, with some of the things

(54:05):
and some of the examples that you're
getting and and what you first said when
you came on to the show when I asked you
what you wanted people to take away.
What you said was start where you are,
right? And and to me that means a couple
of things. That means there's no better
time than right now. It means that now
is the only time that does matter. It
means lean into reality, right, as as it

(54:26):
is today. Don't dwell on the past. Don't
dwell on the future. Just focus on
today. So, I wanna I want to unpack that
a little bit. You know, when you said
that you told your wife you need two
years, at what point in your at what
stage in your career were you already at
when you said, "I need two years to get
this under control?"

(54:47):
Um,
I showed up full-time at 22
and I was probably
about
35.
So, 13 years into it because
Oh, wow.
I been I had been doing this, you know,
hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.

(55:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Go busy,
grow it. Money was coming in, don't get
me wrong.
Sure.
But, you know,
it was it was really a very killing
process. and uh say stressful again
would be a minor thing and didn't know
what I didn't know the information was
out there but it was it wasn't until my
great mentors and friends opened my eyes

(55:30):
but I get the same thing Josh you know I
did great work with a lot of guys and
they are extremely grateful and they and
so many of them said oh I wish you had
been here like five years ago and I look
at them and go you weren't ready
just like I wasn't ready.
You
being ready means when you are either

(55:52):
sick of the pain. So don't run from your
pain. Identify your pain right now. What
are your pain points in your life that
if I told you we can fix them, you would
do what you need to do or what is the
gain out there that you really want? You
want that family time. You want more
money. You want success. Whatever it is

(56:13):
you want. and be really clear and all of
this must be in writing. You can type
it, but there is one thing that people
miss and it's not because of being
old-fashioned.
There is a handtobrain connection.
Science has proven this out for years.
So, writing it out then you can put it
into wherever you want to is really

(56:35):
critical. But the writing of it just
like setting goals have to be in
writing. These are things that you need
to know. Uh I will share one of uh Ellen
Ellen's great thing. Everything they
tell you you should do.
So many people have called me and I've
offered free 30s and they tell me now
this has got to work. And Ellen used to

(56:57):
say no it doesn't.
You're going to just work yourself into
an early health crisis or you're going
to drive your family into bankruptcy or
you know it's just or you're going to
break your marriage up. So many things
are going to happen.
It doesn't have to work, but you can
make it work. But at the same time, you

(57:18):
better put a date on the calendar
in Outlook, Google calendar, whether it
really is or is not because we can't
live in fantasy land forever.
I really like that. Where uh do you

(57:38):
I did have something I wanted to double
back for a second if I got a minute.
Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah,
you asked me such a great question about
personal life and you know work life and
balance and the rest of it.
Ellen and I teach it was a time
management class that actually it's in
my program my signature operating manual
system and my signature staffing thing
because I know this is the biggest

(57:58):
problem. I don't have time. I don't have
time. And so the course that we put
together is maybe two to three hours
long.
Out of a hundred contractors who own the
program, the big program that has this
in it, Josh, how many of the hundred do
you think actually go through the
program?
I don't know.

(58:19):
10 out of a hundred.
Really?
Yeah. But they all, if you ask them, I
don't have time. So it's all about time
management. And one of the biggest
things that I learned and got a lot of
help with is if it's not on my calendar
and I work in Outlook where I have
blocked out the time and created these
things, it's never going to happen. So

(58:41):
when I people buy my programs, I said if
you're not going to commit to one
two-hour block, please don't buy any of
these programs
because it's just going to be a nice
idea that you never get done. But here's
the other trick. you've got to put your
personal time and events in there as
well or you're never going to get to
your daughter's soccer game or whatever.

(59:04):
And so your calendar
and respecting that is really a big
first step to getting this work life
balance.
It's amazing that you that you just said
what you said because my next question
was literally going to be where do you
draw the line between choosing the

(59:24):
business for your family or over your
family and I think you did a really good
job of articulating that just now in
delegation of time.
So
yeah, you know, each of us we have
different approaches.
The point being is I think

(59:47):
that quality time versus what I was
talking about before is showing up but
not being there.
Just all in when you are there.
Yes. Exactly. That's really
to me the most important time. And I
took that example from my dad. He worked
just crazy hours. And as little boys,

(01:00:07):
one of the fun things was our dad would
wake us up and we would go with him to
run a night call. Now, there were people
on, but he had to go out to jobs
periodically at night to a bakery that
was down or, you know, a nursing home
that needed heat because these are
life-saving things. These aren't just
like, "Oh, yeah, we'll see you
tomorrow." And we as young boys just
loved it.

(01:00:29):
I couldn't understand why he wasn't
quite as excited because having worked
all day and also at night. But when he
would come home as a young boy, I
thought to myself,
it's really amazing because he would ask
us questions about how our day was and
it wasn't like, "Leave me alone. I need
a beer."
You know, he was
and he and he had that right. You know,

(01:00:50):
you could have done that. But
when he would be home, he was home for
us. And we were we were the Brady Bunch
before I even knew that was a term. Uh
my mom died early. I was under four. And
my older brothers and sisters and then
my stepmom who really raised me. She was

(01:01:11):
a widow and had an old, you know, I had
a older brother and older sister. A
stepbrother came in. So we were
together. So there was not just me
competing for time, but there was eight
of us around the table. And if you could
have just dropped in with a drone and
heard the conversations because as we
grew up it was like we're talking about,

(01:01:32):
you know, the sports teams and the next
moment we're talking about a job we were
just on and then back to the sports
team. It was just a crazy conversation
around the table, but he prioritized it.
I love that answer.
Kind of in the same realm, but not
really. I'm I'm curious. We were talking
before the show about how you retired

(01:01:52):
from uh your your first business or the
PH uh CE business um at 48 with a
three-year runway, right? So, you
understood you were going to be retiring
at at 45. Gave three years.
I gave my brothers, for those listening,
I gave my two older brothers and my dad
three years notice.
Three years notice.
I was telling Josh like Yeah. You know,

(01:02:13):
what do you get two weeks from your
guys? You know, a week.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very. What made you
what made you retire at at that age from
that business?
Yeah. So,
I was good about saving. I never lived a
full I wanted to raise my kids in a, you
know, a middle-ass neighborhood, which I
did. I wanted them to ride their

(01:02:34):
bicycles on the street, you know, was
we'd all come out in the summer, put our
chairs out. That was really the
environment I wanted to be in. But
really what when the business became
systematic, I don't want to say it got
boring for me because I found new
challenges, but the reality is
to as much as my brothers and my dad

(01:02:54):
allowed to do and they let me do a ton.
U there were things that I wanted to do
that they weren't improving of and I was
not going to drag them up a hill that
they didn't want to go. And so I
realized
I believe that the stuff that I had done
with them in this shop would work at any
contractor shop anywhere I go. And I've

(01:03:16):
been given a gift. And I fervently
believe if you've been given a gift in
life and mentors have come into your
life, you have some level of obligation
to give that gift back. Now, I got paid
for it. Trust me, I could have made a
lot more money staying where I was, but
I'm not complaining. It was great. And I
told Josh it was also a great way to to

(01:03:36):
go fly around, see different parts of
the country. Yeah.
And really, you know, places that I
never would have got to
and also I stayed married that way.
That's a that's a hell of an
accomplishment being able to retire at
that age. I think that um you know
that's uh that's something especially
when we talk about work life balance uh

(01:03:58):
reality leaning into reality you know
what freedom means to to people uh which
is something we talk a lot about on the
show as well you know that that uh that
can be one of the ways that people
achieve that sounds like kind of what
you were trying to work towards whatever
your definition of freedom was.
Yeah, I think for all of us because you
were mentioning even there should be an

(01:04:19):
exit plan. Even if you don't think
you're ever going to exit.
Yeah.
It doesn't mean you know the exit police
aren't showing up at your door. I said,
"Wait a second. You said you were going
to exit this, you know, today." No, it's
just a plan. There should be some
succession. And my dad was a forward
thinker and the longer we were there,
the more he passed shares on to us that

(01:04:39):
we would earn. Um, and he was always
that way. Actually, he was very
progressive in that being progressive is
different. Of course, you know, he had
2-way radios in his truck when people
were looking for, you know, telephone
booths, which of course disappeared.
And, uh, we we have Nexel. We've always
been on the cutting edge of all of we
had we're computerized way before

(01:04:59):
everyone else in our industry was.
And so, he really had that that feature.
So, he said to us, um, I brought you
guys in not to just hear my mandates. I
brought you in here because we need
fresh blood. Having said that, we've
pretty successful. All I ask is you tell
me what you want to do and I will give
you my opinion and once I have you can

(01:05:22):
proceed the way you want because I want
you to be here. But at least you have
heard my thing and he was very fair and
that you could not ask for more than
that in my opinion.
Yeah.
What about leadership? Uh we touched on
uh we touched on systems, we touched on
org charts and processes and even a

(01:05:42):
little bit on the personal realm, work
life balance, but but where does
leadership come into this? And you know,
um I think that's a big piece that
especially in in these industries that
we're talking about, a lot of times it's
a technician, you know, they go out,
they start a business, you know, because
it's what they know, you know, but maybe
uh leadership wasn't high up on their

(01:06:03):
list of things to learn. What does that
mean to you and what does it look like?
Well, what you're speaking to me and
when you were talking really is most of
us that don't weren't born into the
business, we were great techs. People
liked us and then we had an
entrepreneurial seizure moment
where we just freaked out and go, you

(01:06:23):
know what? I can sell it for $5 less,
get a white truck and I'm going to make
tons of money.
I can do it better.
I can do it better. without realizing
you know what I talk about which is the
seven powers is planning operations
staffing sales sales coaching marketing
and finance that's the foundation and is

(01:06:46):
companies are huge and don't have that
that's a problem and if you're small and
you want to get bigger it's a problem so
this really makes a difference to
putting control in place and scaling
possible And so I worked with companies
that were already big and there was a
problem there. Um,

(01:07:09):
putting the foundation in really is what
fixes it and gets you in the right
track. This is really kind of where I
would focus you on. People ask me, well,
when's the right time to put systems in?
And again to annoy you with the same
name, Ellen, my co-pilot,
driving along, she says to me, um,

(01:07:32):
"When's the best time to plant an oak
tree?"
And I said, "Ellen, I'm from New York
City. We don't know from trees, so why
don't you just tell me?" She goes, "10
years ago and today." Because if you
don't plant today, 10 years from now,
you're going to wish you had. And I had
never heard that before, but it makes
such total sense. So getting to the

(01:07:55):
leadership thing here is for people that
when I was doing one to one, it was
typically two to three years we worked
together to put these programs in to
really stick. I didn't want to have like
a rubber ball throw it against the wall
and come bouncing back. So got those
systems in. And then the last program I
did was leadership
where I would take them through the

(01:08:16):
mental aspects and how they have to grow
and you know getting really good at goal
setting and then reverse engineering it
and all the things that it takes to do
leadership. And everyone who went
through with me said I love this. Why
didn't we start with this? I go because
when I showed up you were in a swimming
pool splashing around and about to

(01:08:37):
drown. that's not the time for me to
teach you how to swim. My first job is
to get you to the side of the pool and
out and then we can go back. So that's
why it's no wrong time for leadership
either. Um I think it's good for goal
setting and the rest of it. But
leadership really builds off of these
seven systems and really propels you to

(01:08:59):
what's next, what are we going, what do
we want to do. I I got from Dan
thing called business meditation.
And I said, "What's business
meditation?" He goes, "I want you to
spend, no matter how late your day is,
15 minutes addressing these three
questions.

(01:09:20):
What business am I in?
What business should I be exiting?
And what business should I be going
into?"
So at this time I was in fuel oil only
and that because I asked those three
questions I knew pretty soon. One of the

(01:09:41):
things is my one of my competitors a big
had a really good competitor who I hated
but really appreciated
because they made me better.
Uh they were getting into security alarm
business and we had already got into you
know gas heating and air conditioning
and plumbing and then finally
electrical. I said to my brothers, "Do
you want the guy who just was in the

(01:10:01):
attic working on the heating and cooling
to now work on your security system? I
don't think we should be doing that.
Let's go find a friend of ours who
doesn't want to be in our business and
does security." So, there was somebody
like that. And I literally said the same
thing to him. Do you want to be in our
business? So, we did a standstill
agreement, which just means we don't go
in your business, you don't go in ours.

(01:10:23):
And then we went to market and said what
I just said. Do you want the guy who
worked on your heating equipment to also
do your security system because it was
cold at them? You should really have an
expert and this is who we recommend.
So that was a good way of
thinking about what business am I in?
What business should I be exiting? What

(01:10:43):
business should I be moving into? But
there are some businesses I didn't want
to go into.
Yeah. No, that's the first time I've
ever heard that before. The business
meditation. I really uh I really like
that. I'm I'm going to use that and and
I want to go back. I know this is we've
been a long podcast already. You know,
this is the first time you've actually
laid out your uh uh you know the seven

(01:11:04):
power uh tools. Are they tools? Is that
how you describe them? Seven power
foundation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,
I've got plan I've got planning,
operations, staffing, sales, sales,
coaching, marketing, and finance. Is
that right?
Yeah. Yep.
Okay.
um you want to take us through kind of
what that means real quick and just you

(01:11:24):
know I mean you don't have to I'm sure
there's a lot that goes into it even
though it's a thing
planning is trying to keep it as short
as is all about working on the right
things at the right t time at the right
way the three rights of planning and so
really all the great ideas that you get
and let's face it you have way more
ideas I thought I had it bad when I had

(01:11:46):
just seminars webinars and a few events
now I go to social, Facebook, you know,
Instagram, there's no shortage of ideas
out there. And the problem with that is,
are you listening to an idiot or a
genius? That's really hard.
So having the seven powers helps you
filter some of that. So planning is
really about your every great idea goes

(01:12:07):
to the top of the funnel master project
works its way down to the top 30 by
either fixing your biggest problem and
challenge greatest chance to grow and be
profitable and then down to that makes
your top 30 which is if you and I Josh
are working together we have a list of
30 next year at this time I want to know
how many of the 30 you got done and then
30 is still too much to work on so we

(01:12:28):
use the same strainer again fixes
biggest problem challenge greatest
chance to grow and be profitable gets
down to our top five.
These are the top five that you choose.
Guys used to ask me all the time, "Oh,
could you pick them for me?" And I go,
"Absolutely not." I said, "Can I just
pick top five?" And go, "Absolutely not.
It has to work its way down." But it

(01:12:50):
these or sometime this week
you said these are the five things that
are going to fix your biggest problem
and challenge, greatest chance, and grow
profitable. So, don't tell me you were
busy working on some job or putting out
some fire because you'll be doing that
forever if you don't dedicate a part of

(01:13:11):
your week. And again, guess where the
time block has to be on your calendar.
Yeah.
So that you make sure that you are
working on these. This is the path
operating is really about or charts. Box
or chart is one, depth chart, flow of
communication, and then having the
manuals that cover it. It's the only way

(01:13:33):
to come under control and be systematic.
Staffing is again about how to take
willing apprentices with no skills to
willing techs with great skills,
apprentice, junior tech, senior tech,
field supervisor, and beyond. Um, sales
is all about, you know, big tech sales
selling in a systematic way. Mine was

(01:13:55):
five steps
that they are trained on five steps to
follow. I think you can have a
three-step, five step, seven step, 10
step. Anything more than 10, good luck
getting anybody to follow with any
consistency. Not going to happen. So
sales, I taught techs how to sell. I
taught big ticket people how to sell.

(01:14:15):
You're the basic skills that you have to
learn and the basic systems. The good
news is if you get really good at sales,
your marketing gets easier
because if you can sell to one ideal
customer or 10 or 100 or a thousand,
then marketing becomes better because
you already know what makes your target
audience click and get it. So marketing

(01:14:37):
is a marketing plan in writing which
covers target audiences, where they
live, what the demographics are, and
then really also marketing budget, which
is how much fuel you're putting in the
gas tank. marketing allocation is what
three drivers away you're going to work.
That doesn't mean it's the only three,
but they're going to get the lion share
of your time, energy, and money. And the

(01:14:59):
last thing that everyone misses is a
marketing calendar. I'm busy, busy,
busy. And all of a sudden, the phones go
dead and I pick it up to make sure is it
working because I have done that. You
have to populate your calendar
throughout the year actually backwards.
So marketing is always happening.
Sales coaching really goes to the core.

(01:15:22):
Would any of us ever do homework as kids
if our parents didn't check it
periodically? The answer is no. So sales
coaching is really a reward system and
checking on sales performance. If they
go above, there's something in it for
them. If they hit the metric, keep
coming. We love you. If they're
underneath, we coach, but only for so
long. And so financial really is about

(01:15:44):
learning how to do what Ellen taught,
which is how do you budget? How do you
keep plugging your numbers back so that
you are selling at the right price,
creating the profit? And basically,
think of it this way. If it's if you
don't have the ingredients to bake your
pie the right way, it's not going to
come out in the end the way you desire.
That's really what it is. So, I think I

(01:16:06):
am.
No, that's great. I appreciate you uh uh
going through that. All right. I got
three more questions for you if you're
still good.
Yep, I'm here. All right. All right.
Great. All right. Cool. So, um, next
question is, I know you had mentioned
Tommy Melo, um, which, uh, who's who's
local to us and and now he's he's kind

(01:16:29):
of exploded on social media. I know he's
got a couple of books out,
you know, and and he's been vocal about
working with you, you know, as well and
credits you to a lot of his success. So,
you know, because he puts that out, I'd
like to hear kind of your side out of of
it of where
he stood out. If if there's if there's
people out there who are quote unquote
fans of Tommy's and fans of yours, like

(01:16:51):
what did he do really well?
He he is incredibly honest and and
genuine, you know, and unfortunately
because he's media star, people
start reading stuff into it. He doesn't
need to do any of it.
Yeah.
And he's doing it for all the right
reasons. Having said that, 2017,
um, I get a phone call because I'm gonna

(01:17:13):
be on his podcast and I look down at the
phone number and I go, "Hey, Tommy,
where do you live?" He goes, "Fenix."
He goes, "Where do you live?" I go,
"Scottsdale." Goes, "Great. We'll have
lunch afterwards." So, we meet for
lunch. And he hands me his book and he
goes, "I really would love you to read
it, but I want you to be brutally
honest." I said, "Tommy, don't give it

(01:17:33):
to me if you don't want brutally
honest." And so I go home and I'm trying
to read through the book and then I just
call him up and I go, "This is not a
book. This is a ransom note." And if I
tried to write my own book, Seven Power,
which I did, I needed an editor and you
need my editor, Helen. Helina was the
one they needed to get set up. That was
his first book, you know, the million

(01:17:54):
home service millionaire.
Right. Anyway, when I came in in 2017 to
his shop because he hired me right there
at lunch, he was 15 million in sales.
So, he knew how to make the phone ring,
but he was losing money every day. And
basically, the company was on fire. So,
when the phone rang, it was gasoline to
a fire. And none of this is secret. He
tells it all the time.

(01:18:15):
So, my job was to get him to stop losing
money. And then we started making a lot
of money. And we're
really rolling. And within very short
time, he says to me, Al, we're going to
be a hundred million. And I already knew
Tommy. And I go, I don't doubt it, but
we have to stay systematic. Anyway, he's
blown straight through that. I I 250,
300, I don't know where he's at right

(01:18:36):
now, making great profit all across the
country. And
so, you know, systems to him were really
important. He was
brilliant. He is still brilliant, but he
would be chasing every shiny object.
And so I told him one day, I said, "You

(01:18:58):
are a avid reader,
probably more than anyone I've worked
with, but all these different voices in
your head doesn't leave room for my
voice. It's not my ego. You called me in
here for a reason. Once this system's in
place, you can talk to anybody. you can
read anyway, but you'll have a better
way to filter it. And to his credit, you

(01:19:20):
know, that's pretty much it. Now, having
said that, he was playing with his phone
while I was there because then he blame
everything on ADHD.
And I go, I'm glad you have a diagnosis.
Most of us used at my age used to look
out the window because the teacher was
boring. We probably would have been
diagnosed the same. I said, "But
put your blinders on."

(01:19:40):
And he was playing with his phone. And
finally I said, "Put your phone away or
I'm leaving." And he was playing with
the phone and I just packed up my stuff
and I going to the door. He goes, "Where
you going?
I told you I was leaving if you didn't
put your phone away. There's a bucket
right behind you." And to his credit, he
shut it down and the rest is history.

(01:20:01):
Amazing. That's fantastic. I appreciate
you sharing that.
Yeah.
All right. So the next question, second
to last questions I I've got is
u what are you learning right now? I
mean I I can tell I can tell by you know
just talking to you for the amount of
time that we have that like you know
you're somebody who who who you're a

(01:20:22):
builder right and I have to assume
correct me if I'm wrong but I have to
assume that that translates to building
yourself too. So is there something that
you're learning right now?
Yeah, my father told me this. If you
think you're done learning, you're
right. But not in a good way.
I like that.
So, it's good.
Yeah. You know, I don't read as much as
I once did. Part of that is I'm like all

(01:20:44):
of you. I've become a skimmer in some
ways. But a lot of it also is because
I've been around so long is I realize
it's a lot of it's recycled and so I
know the source of where it is. Having
said that, one of the best places I
learned is in Facebook groups or
industry groups because I don't know who
the currently best answering service,
although best answering service, I would

(01:21:05):
put Airbody quotes on that. Um, and so,
you know, I I still learn I interact
with people on social media a lot in
groups. I'm not interested in all the
other noise out there. I don't even
follow my family members. I I want to be
in the inst groups and if I hear a lot
of people talking about it, then it it
causes me to research and write

(01:21:27):
something about whether it's model
trucks or how to build the right
warehouse and all the things that I that
I like to do. So, it's kind of like a
rotating puzzle in a good way.
Okay. Very cool. All right, Al. So, we
went over uh we went over a lot and and
honestly, I could talk to you for six
more hours if if we had the time. You

(01:21:48):
know, I just I'm I'm so grateful for uh
for your wisdom and and everything
you're imparting on me and and our
audience. Before we wrap up the show, I
want to ask you, it's kind of our
signoff question. What's a truth that
took you years to fully understand but
changed everything once you did?

(01:22:08):
So, it happened late in my career,
unfortunately. But
when my team got really energized and
that they knew that they now had a voice
and they could get fingerprints on how
things were were going and that I didn't
have to be the guy that had all of the
answers. And it actually came up during
the operating meetings where we were

(01:22:30):
always stuck. The the last guy out who
was done at 2 am would leave a message
with the our on our people at the at the
uh that were answering the phones. not a
stranger. And I would get in in the
morning and look at this message and go,
"What? What did he say?" And now I have
to wake this guy up who just got to
sleep and ask him a question about

(01:22:51):
whatever it is. His name is Joe. And Joe
goes, "I tell you," and this is old, so
understand. He says, "Have a dedicated
line and a dedicated answering machine.
I will say the following. Mrs. Smith,
123 Main Street. The third circulator
needs to be replaced. I put a tag on it
so you won't confuse it. She's expecting
us between 9 and 11:00 a.m. Good night.

(01:23:12):
And all of us just did a collective head
slap
because none of us had thought anything
about this. And that was one of the
enlightening moments is that your team
can help you lift. But it really you
need to structure the day-to-day. You
need to get the 80% covered. You need to
explain the problem in a way. And then

(01:23:33):
with this top five that I talked about,
you don't have to do it all yourself.
your owners, your managers, the right
team members can come along and help you
lift.
I appreciate that. Al, if people want to
learn more about you or the seven power
contractor or they want to find your
book, uh, where can they do that?

(01:23:55):
Best place to go is the number seven
powerc contractor.com. That's my
website. I have a ton of blogs. You can
search it. been writing for years and
years and it's really pretty much stuff
that's still foundational.
There's also the products tab which is
the book which is only sold through
Amazon. There's audible, there's

(01:24:17):
paperback, there's an ebook. So you
whatever flavor you like. It's very
short and it's on short for a reason
because I want you I was I'm dyslexic.
I'm a slow reader. I want you to read it
over and over again or listen to it over
and over again and then implement. There
is the signature operating manual system
which is those org charts and manuals

(01:24:37):
that I talk about the big foundational
piece and once you've done that there is
a second program called signature
staffing system and that is where you
can take these willing apprentices with
no skills to willing text with great
skills.
Awesome. Well, Al, thank you so much for
spending your valuable time with us
today and and and like I said, for
sharing everything that you did and

(01:24:58):
being so transparent about it um as
well. I think that's really helpful for
I know it's helpful for me. I I can't
speak for my audience, but I'm sure it
is helpful for them, too. So, thank you
just a thousand times for coming on the
show.
My my I really have deep appreciation
for you and I have enormous empathy for
all of you who are listening.

(01:25:18):
Do something. Do the right thing. So get
the working the right thing in the right
way at the right time.
Awesome. Thank you so much L.

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