January 21, 2025 • 29 mins
It's time for the first CX Pulse Check of 2025. Special guest co-host Andrew Carothers, CCXP, joins Jeannie Walters to discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience in 2025, highlighting innovative strategies by companies like AT&T and Samsung alongside challenges posed by automation, as seen in the Waymo incident. The discussion emphasizes the need for empathy, proactive engagement, and a comprehensive understanding of customer journeys to foster loyalty in a competitive market.
Through fascinating examples and anecdotes, they highlight how blending digital tools with the human touch is crucial in orchestrating a seamless and superior customer experience.
About Andrew Carothers, CCXP:
Andrew Carothers, CCXP, is a Customer Experience executive known for developing innovative CX strategies that grow revenue, increase renewal rates, and expedite customer adoption. A founding member of Cisco System’s CX function, he helped build the function with a focus on digital experience and partners. He’s a 12-time International Customer Experience award winner, frequently writes and speaks on CX topics, and co-authored The Publicity Handbook (McGraw Hill), a Fortune Book Club selection. He currently serves as a member of the Board of Advisors for the University of San Francisco’s School of Management Strategic Artificial Intelligence program and as a judge for US and international CX competitions.
Follow Andrew on...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-carothers/
Articles Mentioned:
AT&T Says It Will Now Credit You for Outages and Long Customer Service Wait Times (Gizmodo) -- https://gizmodo.com/att-says-it-will-now-credit-you-for-outages-and-long-customer-service-wait-times-2000547491
Samsung’s smart fridges will use AI to suggest groceries to buy on Instacart (The Verge) -- https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/2/24334411/samsung-instacart-smart-fridge-partnership
LA man nearly misses flight as self-driving Waymo taxi drives around parking lot in circles (CBS News) -- https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/la-man-nearly-misses-flight-as-self-driving-waymo-taxi-drives-around-parking-lot-in-circles/
Resources Mentioned:
Take the CXI® Compass assessment -- CXICompass.com
Experience Investigators Website -- experienceinvestigators.com
Want to ask a question? Visit askjeannie.vip to leave Jeannie a voicemail! (And don't forget to follow Jeannie on LinkedIn! www.linkedin.com/in/jeanniewalters/)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeannie Walters (00:09):
Welcome to the first episode of the year for
the Experience Action Podcastand it's that episode you look
forward to every month.
It's our January CX Pulse Checkepisode for 2025.
As always, I am so excitedbecause we have a very special
co-host where we will bebreaking down a few things in
(00:29):
the news that hopefully all ofus in the customer experience
world can maybe learn fromlessons, inspiration, to-dos and
maybe some not to-dos as well.
So why don't you help mewelcome our co-host to the stage
here.
This is Andrew Carothers iswith us.
Andrew, how are you?
Andrew Carothers (00:48):
Hi, Jeannie, I am doing great.
Happy New Year to you.
Jeannie Walters (00:52):
Thank you, Happy New Year to you, Happy
2025.
And we were joking that it'sonly been a few days, but we're
already kind of like.
I don't know if I'm going tobuy the trial right?
Andrew Carothers (01:07):
Exactly!
Jeannie Walters (01:07):
I don't know, we're still kicking the tires on
this one.
But, Andrew, now you've been inthe customer experience field a
long time you were mostrecently with Cisco and you have
a lot of experience in digitalexperience, so I would love for
you to share a little bit moreabout who you are with our
audience.
Andrew Carothers (01:21):
Sure, I've been in CX for about 15 years.
I joined Cisco in a marketingcapacity.
I think a lot of people in CXcome from maybe customer support
or marketing.
I kind of think of those as theparents of the CX discipline.
So I came in for marketing andthen when Cisco created a CX
function about 15 years ago, Iwas one of the 50 co-founders of
(01:44):
that and 50 may sound like alarge number, but out of 65,000
employees it was a very smallnumber.
So it helped to create the CXfunction at Cisco and always had
an emphasis on the digitalcomponent.
And originally it was digital asa way to scale to our thousands
of partners and tens ofthousands of customers.
But I think over the pastcertainly 15 years, but I would
(02:08):
say even five years, so justpredating the pandemic we've
seen a shift in the industry ofwhat our customers want.
So digital is not just a way toscale to maybe the lowest
dollar customer sort of the longtail but rather customers want
a digital first experience.
We'll get into this a littlebit later.
(02:28):
They want to be able to connectwith humans as well.
So I'm not saying digital only,but the role of digital in what
our customers experience, notjust in tech and not just in B2B
, but in a B2C world as well,has grown in prominence as well.
So my background in CX is itgoes back 15 years and starting
the function and really delvingin on the digital side.
(02:52):
Also because of Cisco'sbusiness being very partner
focused, very heavily focusingon how to create a CX function
that operates directly withcustomers but also through our
partners.
Jeannie Walters (03:06):
So important and I think B2B and tech and all
of those things there are somany layers right to the
customer experience and I think,one of the things that I, I
don't know if it's privileged orjust because I've been around a
while, looking back on theevolution of digital as even a
(03:27):
property, even an idea, it'sreally exciting to see, and
we're gonna talk about a fewthings today that relate to all
of this.
We're covering a lot of groundtoday.
We're covering how to connectwith customers, predictive
customer experience, all sortsof things.
So I think we should dive rightin.
What do you think?
Andrew Carothers (03:44):
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Lots to talk about.
Jeannie Walters (03:46):
So our first story today is really right, in
line with what we were justtalking about.
So this is from Gizmodo and theheadline is AT&T says it will
now credit you for outages andlong customer service wait times
.
Now what this doesn't say inthe headline is how they're
doing this.
(04:07):
This is essentially a proactivething that they're doing.
If you have an outage for morethan 20 minutes, they are saying
that they're just going tocredit your bill for a day's
worth of internet service, andif you wait for customer service
in their call center for morethan five minutes, they're going
(04:27):
to send you a $5 Visa gift card.
Now this may not sound like much, but I was intrigued by how
proactively they're offering todo this, and there have been
some really great studies latelyshowing that this does help
with longevity.
This does help with customerloyalty, but it's a complicated
(04:49):
business AT&t.
They have a lot of customers,so I'm curious on your
perspective of this, on, likethe execution of it and the
strategy of it and the weighingthe pros and cons of this.
What are your thoughts?
Andrew Carothers (05:02):
Yeah, I think it's a smart move by AT&T.
Full disclosure, I'm an AT&Tmobile customer, so I think it's
a smart move for a couple ofreasons.
The main reason is AT&T,Spectrum, other cable and phone
companies.
They're now in a world wherethey can see competition coming.
(05:26):
When the Bells were broken upyears ago it created a little
bit of competition, but not much.
But now, with Starlink andother similar type of
over-the-top providers coming,they can see that even in rural
areas there are options fortheir customers and lots of
(05:47):
times these utilities have poorreputations in their customers'
minds.
I think that, and so when theyget, when those customers get
options to move, I think they'relike they're ready to go to try
something else.
I cut the cord in my own homefrom a cable perspective a
little while ago for exactly thesame reason.
So therefore I think this is athey're being proactive, but
(06:10):
it's also proactively defensive,or the difficult competition
that they're going to face inthe very close up, you know, in
the not too distant future, letme put it that way.
So what I think it ties on hereis what do customers want?
So I don't have knowledge ofwhat the financial impact of
(06:32):
this is going to be in terms ofpotential outlays of cash.
But let's assume that they'vedone the research to determine
what they think the likelihoodof their rate of not being able
to meet the expectations they'resetting are and the cost of
that et cetera, and they'reweighing that against some
expectation of what the resultson the positive side the return
(06:55):
on this investment in building abetter customer experience,
will be.
So let's assume they've donethat calculation.
It says a couple of things.
One, there is a calculation forwhat the return on the expected
improvement in customerexpectation will be.
So I don't want to gloss overthat AT&T has probably done
(07:16):
that calculation and then madethe move to move forward,
Because that looks at sort ofnot only current operational
data how many days and how manycustomers does that affect that
we are currently having outages?
What will be the impact of this?
What improvements do we thinkwe can make?
And therefore shortening thenumber of days, shortening the
(07:37):
number of customers affected andtherefore the economic impact
of that?
Right, that's going to be hardwork on their part to do the
backend operational improvementsto solve some of these issues
more rapidly than they'resolving them today and half of
the past few years.
That is difficult work.
So, number one point love thatthey are presumably looking at
(08:02):
determining the financial impactof improving the experience
they provide their customers.
Number two they've got a longroad ahead when it turns to the
back office operationalimprovements they need to make.
That's the critical component,in my view, to an improved
(08:24):
customer experience or evenmaintaining an existing customer
experience.
What people oftentimes focus onis the customer facing
component of the experience.
What's the journey mapping?
What are the moments thatmatter?
How easy is it to navigateinformation?
Jeannie Walters (08:40):
The tip of the iceberg, right.
Andrew Carothers (08:41):
Totally important, but cannot be done
effectively.
Jeannie Walters (08:46):
That's right.
Andrew Carothers (08:46):
Acting on that and providing that front-end
experience, customer facing,can't be done effectively
without connecting on the backend data sources.
Jeannie Walters (08:58):
Yeah.
Andrew Carothers (08:58):
Um, business teams and the silos associated
with those, breaking those down,platforms and people.
Jeannie Walters (09:07):
Tools, technology, processes, it all is
together.
Andrew Carothers (09:11):
It's so hard to do, especially for a legacy
company like AT&T, where theyare ingrained in decades of
databases that don't talk toothers.
So kudos to them for them totake this on.
I think they're doing thisbecause, as I said, the
impending competition lets themknow we don't have a choice,
because we're going to lose alot of customers if we don't do
this.
(09:31):
Right! I agree.
I think, you know, the otherpart of that disruption is they
are not going, to your point,they are a big legacy company.
They are not as nimble as astartup who might be right now
trying to disrupt the industryor, you know, popping up from
one of the spinoffs of Starlinkor something like that.
(09:53):
So I think that whenever wethink about investing in
customer experience, we have tothink about it as a way to
invest in innovation andinnovation only happens to your
point, with all the stuff in thebackground.
We have to figure out how do weactually execute this.
So I think it's a great move.
I am really I'm going to bewatching it closely and I'm also
(10:14):
curious because in thisindustry, as you know, people
follow right, like other otherbrands are going to say wait,
they're doing what, we need todo what, and who's going to try
this out?
Who's going to follow?
But I think it shows howcustomers are not just expecting
the bare minimum and they'renot willing to put up with it.
(10:36):
They know that there areoptions.
And so if you are not competingagainst the customer who's
about to leave you, then you'rereally not competing.
You are.
You're just, you know waitingfor them to leave you.
And this next story I'm so, I'mso interested in this one
because I think it's like we'vebeen promised flying cars, right
(10:57):
.
We've been promised the Jetsonsfor years.
Who doesn't want a robot maid,right?
And we've talked about some ofthose innovations coming out,
but this one, I think, is prettyintriguing because it also
shows the potential partnershipswhich you have so much
experience with.
But this is from the Verge andthe headline is Samsung smart
(11:18):
fridges will use AI to suggestgroceries to buy on Instacart.
And essentially what they'redoing here is those big,
beautiful refrigerators that nowhave screens where you can
literally look inside yourrefrigerator.
Instead of just a camera, theyhave an AI camera now that
(11:40):
basically can identify,I think right now the number is
not very big, it's like 37different things food items,
including fresh produce, andthings like this.
And then they have an Instacartpartnership where, if you have
an Instacart list going, it cansay oh, I put, you know, we ran
out of eggs.
I put the eggs you like on yourInstacart order and there's a
(12:02):
lot here to love.
And it also makes me thinkabout sometimes when we have
these conveniences and then wekind of forget and we don't turn
them off, and then suddenly wemight be getting like oh wait, I
didn't want to order the eggsbecause I'm going out of town or
all those things.
But I just think thepartnership aspect of this is
(12:22):
really intriguing, and Instacartis really investing in that
partnership models.
They have partnership with likeHome Depot and a few others now
.
So what's your take on this?
Do you think our refrigeratorsare going to become sentient and
take over?
I mean I'm giggling because there's so many
funny elements to the story.
I can imagine, as you pointedout, somebody comes home from
(12:43):
vacation.
They've got stores and storesof eggs and apples and things.
Yeah, yeah, I mean we've allgone on vacation and forgotten
to shut off the mail, right?
And then you come back.
For sure, so like that's kindof funny and also this is sort
of peak innovation and peak, youknow, laziness too.
Jeannie Walters (13:01):
But laziness equals convenience, right, like
that's really what that means.
Andrew Carothers (13:07):
From a CX perspective and a partnership
perspective.
I do love this, however, becauseI love a couple of things from
a from a foundations of businessperspective, which CX is should
be interwoven into at allcompanies because of everything
we've been discussing.
But there's this concept ofright there, Samsung looking and
(13:28):
saying we're not just sellingrefrigerators.
We are, you know, and startingfrom a CX perspective to
understand what is it that ourcustomers want, right?
(13:49):
Do they simply want a box of acertain size and color that will
keep their produce cold, or dothey want something else?
Let's find out, and by talkingto customers and surveying
customers and, I would assume,using AI to analyze data so they
can be more predictive, notjust in terms of what you're
talking about the functionalityof the refrigerator but in terms
of predicting what do ourcustomers do, what do they buy,
(14:10):
what features, et cetera to thenget a deeper, better
understanding of their customers, to know they are looking to
not just store what they boughtat a grocery store, like keep it
fresh, but also to you knowwhat the friction points in that
customer journey from I needfood to I'm getting food, to I'm
(14:32):
storing it so that it's freshwhen I'm going to use it in my
home, and understanding thatwhole process and the role that
the refrigerator they sell playsas part of that process.
So, like that's, step one isfrom a CX perspective,
understanding their customersand looking at it holistically,
as opposed to in the little boxin which the refrigerator sale
(14:54):
plays.
Jeannie Walters (14:55):
It's a great point.
It's a great point and I thinkthe the fault that you're
pointing out is how manyorganizations start like they
have product teams out the wazooright, like they are obsessed
with their products, but theythink that the product is what
somebody's buying, but reallyit's what we can do with the
product, or how it helps ourlives, how it's more convenient,
(15:19):
easier.
It makes me feel a certain way,right, like I can show people
look my refrigerator orders mygroceries for me.
Isn't that cool.
That makes people feel acertain way.
So I think it's a reallyimportant point and it is one of
the things that I personallylove about the idea of journey
mapping, because it forces thosequestions.
(15:40):
It forces us to go through thatprocess and think what is
actually happening here with thecustomer?
They're not actually thinking,I mean in you know, if you're
doing a remodel, yes, you'rethinking, oh, we need a
refrigerator.
But to your point, I could getthat on Craigslist and get an
avocado green from the 70s.
(16:01):
It probably still works, right.
So it's a really really goodpoint.
Andrew Carothers (16:07):
Yeah, so from a product perspective, you're
right.
I mean, this helps distinguishthem from competitors on a
features and function capability, but also I think you touched
on something so important, whichis the emotional component.
It helps them to not only froma features and function sort of
say, I want to feel cool, I wantto feel modern, innovative, etc
(16:28):
.
But also they understand whatI'm trying to do, which is not
buy a refrigerator, I'm tryingto, you know I'm busy, I'm
trying to take care of the house, the kids, the job, like
whatever.
I'm trying to simplify my life.
And I think the focus onsimplification is so critical
(16:48):
for all CX approaches, asexemplified here.
And then to touch on thepartner side, I love that they
looked at the broader journeyand then looked at how can we
simplify that?
How can we bring simplification, how can we remove friction
points in the broader journey,whether that's a direct sort of
(17:08):
feature or function we can addto our product, or whether it's
by looking more broadly and thenpartnering more broadly.
So bringing an Instacart, whichmakes perfect sense, from a
complimentary service provider,but doing so in a way that sort
of expands the footprint theyhave without spinning up a
(17:31):
competitor to Instacart to tryto keep it all in-house.
So I love that it's like when anairline realizes we're not just
in the business of flyingpeople and goods elsewhere, they
then partner with hotels,rental cars.
We're in the people and goodsmovement business.
Even hotels, for example, thatwe're not just in the sort of
(17:55):
short-term housing for people ontrips, especially business
people, the more profitablecustomer, but we are in the
people connection business.
So some hotels, even before thepandemic, set up a sort of
conference facilities that alsoinclude either individual or
group remote meeting facilities.
(18:17):
So if you're going to come staythe night great, but if you're
just local and you need thosefacilities, great.
We've got that too.
Thinking more broadly aboutwhere they play, as opposed to
I'm the center of the universe,my business is the center of the
universe, which is not acustomer focused approach.
That's the, you know, that's aninternal focused approach.
Jeannie Walters (18:38):
Yep, and I think the you know, in this
specific example, Instacartcustomers are, you know,
Instacart customers.
They have have it on theirphone.
They always have a list goingthere.
This is what they do, and sothey might not go to a Best Buy
today and say I need a Samsungfridge, but they might do that
(18:59):
now.
They might walk in and say I'mgoing to request this because I
know this is going to help me,because this is the type of
customer I am.
So there's all sorts ofinteresting kind of overlaps and
it's very human when you getright down to it.
It is very human and it's aboutunderstanding how do customers
behave?
What do we really want and howcan we best serve them in that
(19:20):
moment in their journey, likethe way that they're living
their lives, they're notactually focused on our products
and services, they're justliving their lives trying to do
things.
So, speaking of this, this mightbe my favorite story today.
Andrew Carothers (19:33):
It's mine, it's mine.
Jeannie Walters (19:35):
We have to get to this one because it's so
goofy and fun.
So this you probably have heardabout this one because it made
quite a bit of news.
But we're talking about theWaymo, the RoboTaxi, and this
happened actually in Arizona,but it was for a man who lives
in Los Angeles and the headlinefrom CBS News says LA man nearly
(19:58):
misses flight as self-drivingWaymo taxi drives around parking
lot in circles and if you go tothe site or if you just look it
up, the video is everywherebecause he, his name is Mike
Johns.
He actually recorded himself inthis car while trying to connect
to their customer service,saying I don't know what's
(20:18):
happening, did someone hack this?
He couldn't even release theseat belt and he was just going
around in a circle in thisself-driving car and the point
that I thought was I mean, it'sa compelling story anyway, but
his point, when people haveasked him about it, he said
there just wasn't a lot ofcompassion or empathy from the
(20:40):
person he talked to and she wasbasically saying I'm working on
it, we'll get it fixed.
And Waymo, in their defense,stated that it was only about
five minutes.
He did make his flight, but itcreated all this and they didn't
charge him for the ride and allthose things.
But, I think we are in a veryspecific time in our history as
humankind right now, where weare starting to experiment with
(21:00):
more and more of these automatedtools that always required
human stewardship, really fordecades or even longer, and now
we're making this move and thetrust level is going up because
(21:22):
these are working in a lot ofways, but then we have something
that goes wrong and it's like awhole new rule book for how to
handle it.
So what?
What did you think about thisone?
Andrew Carothers (21:34):
After I stopped laughing.
Jeannie Walters (21:37):
It is a funny video.
It's like funny and I I had Iwas like anxious for him too.
Yeah.
Andrew Carothers (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I agree with you.
We are in a period of dramaticand rapid innovation, and there
will be hiccups along the way.
I think that, being up in theSan Francisco Bay Area, where
Waymo has been doing testing forat least a year, if not two
(22:05):
years, I know there's a lot oftesting that takes place before
rolling out the car.
So, that said, there will stillbe issues that come up.
So the question then right,really the meta question is how
do we then respond to thosequestions?
And this is not only sort of aphilosophical question when it
(22:27):
comes to dealing with problemsthat erupt with new innovative
technologies, but even in ourown businesses, our own lives,
you know, just old school,things happen, right.
So how does the supplier or thevendor or the service provider,
how do they respond?
So, which goes to the AT&Tstory at the beginning as well.
I think that there is amisperception that innovation or
(22:55):
digital or technology is binarywith the human element and
empathy.
I think that it's a matter ofexecution.
Sometimes that's how it'simplemented, right.
We're going to use a company,says you know, internally, they
don't say this externally.
We're going to use digitaltools, a chat bot, simply our
(23:20):
website, whatever you know,emails.
We're going to use digitalchannels to communicate with our
customers proactively as wellas from a troubleshooting
perspective.
As a way to cut costs, we'regoing to cut out the human
support element and just forceour customers right.
So I think that's a mistake,right, If you make it binary
(23:41):
like that.
It's a mistake.
I think the companies that willprovide the type of customer
experience that their customerswant and expect and given
opportunities to leave to go toa competitor demand, those
companies that will besuccessful are the ones that
combine the best of human withthe best of digital right.
(24:02):
So digital provides a muchfaster approach.
So if somebody wants to go on awebsite and find information or
, you know, interact with a chatbot or whatever it might be,
it's a much faster way to getinformation.
So that's why a lot of peoplelove it.
It's really no different thangoing to the supermarket and
(24:23):
using the you know theself-serve scanning versus
standing in line.
That said companies thatprovide a digital channel or
(24:51):
multiple digital channels needto build those channels with
human empathy in mind.
Meaning the actual building,the development of that channel,
and the processes that aregoing to operate it moving
forward need to be created inconjunction with the customer.
Customer interviews, customerdata analysis, et cetera.
So upfront, before it evenrolls out, It's built with the
centered around the customer.
Jeannie Walters (24:57):
Yes, Just like we were talking about with the
refrigerator.
Andrew Carothers (25:00):
Just like that .
Exactly.
And then you know if somethinghappens and a digital channel is
first option, there needs to bea simple, easy and easy to find
option to connect with a human.
So I'm not sure if that was thecase with the Waymo guy, but
(25:21):
for most companies justproviding an easy way.
I've seen companies that dothis very well.
I've been frustrated withcompanies that don't do it well
at all.
And then the other element,which is not new, is when
customers connect with thosehumans.
Digital channel as well, butfocusing on the inside.
There needs to be valueprovided by that agent.
So, I have been struggling towith my car manufacturer, I
won't name him who was supposedto send me an adapter for my
(25:43):
electric car, and it was.
I've been waiting almost a yearnow for it.
Jeannie Walters (25:59):
Oh my goodness.
Andrew Carothers (25:59):
And it was supposed to come in October.
Then it was December, now it'sJanuary.
I called customer support.
The number says if you havequestions about this specific
issue, call this number.
So I called.
Agent, had no information totell me.
Jeannie Walters (26:13):
Oh my gosh, that's frustrating.
Andrew Carothers (26:16):
So, you've got to build in the empathy into
the process and into the digitalcomponent as well as the human
component, and you have to haveagain that back-end connectivity
that we were talking aboutearlier, so that when people
connect with you, whetherdigitally or human-based, that
there's value in that process.
(26:36):
and
Jeannie Walters (26:36):
And they know where you are on your journey,
they know exactly what you'redealing with and I think the
whole idea that we get sowrapped up in these innovations
sometimes that we think it's allgoing to go exactly as planned.
(26:57):
And whenever we're talking withclients about how to innovate
and plan, one of the bigquestions we need to ask is what
if?
What if this doesn't work?
What if they can't reachsomebody through that channel?
What if that?
You know?
What if the chatbot is down?
Where do they go?
We have to really think throughlike what if it doesn't work?
And I think that's what thishighlights is that we sometimes
get, we kind of fall in lovewith our own ideas and we think
(27:17):
it's all going to work and wespend so much time and effort
getting it right and we don'tthink about when things will go
wrong, but they will.
You know, like that's life wethat's how it goes.
Yeah, so right about that.
So well, this was so fun, Andrew.
I I mean, let's do this again.
Andrew Carothers (27:37):
Yeah, I would love to cause.
I love, I love the opportunityto talk about sort of the
fundamental practices of thediscipline of customer
experience from practicalapplications like this.
I think it really helps peopleunderstand some of the big
picture themes and processesthat we like to talk about.
Jeannie Walters (27:57):
Right.
I always say it's really easyto say just be nice to customers
, right, like that's easy to say, but when you actually figure
out what that means it's, it's awhole you know profession.
So yeah, well, this was so fun.
Thank you so much for joiningme for CX Pulse Check.
And if people want to know moreabout you, how can they reach
(28:18):
out to you?
Andrew Carothers (28:19):
Best way to reach out to me is on LinkedIn.
I'm easy to find.
I love talking to people, soplease do reach out, connect
with me, and then we'll start aconversation.
Jeannie Walters (28:29):
Awesome and we'll make sure that link is in
our show notes as well.
So thank you and thanks to allof you out there for listening,
for participating in theExperience Action podcast.
Don't forget, you can alwaysleave me a voicemail with your
question that I can answer on afuture episode at askjeannievip
(28:50):
and, if you haven't already,check out the CXI Compass at
experienceinvestigatorscom tofind out where you are on your
CX journey and see what the nextsteps could be for you.
Thank you so much, thank you toour guests, thank you to all of
us listeners and I reallyappreciate you here on episode
101 of the Experience ActionPodcast.
Welcome to the first episode of the year for
the Experience Action Podcastand it's that episode you look
forward to every month.
It's our January CX Pulse Checkepisode for 2025.
As always, I am so excitedbecause we have a very special
co-host where we will bebreaking down a few things in
(00:29):
the news that hopefully all ofus in the customer experience
world can maybe learn fromlessons, inspiration, to-dos and
maybe some not to-dos as well.
So why don't you help mewelcome our co-host to the stage
here.
This is Andrew Carothers iswith us.
Andrew, how are you?
Andrew Carothers (00:48):
Hi, Jeannie, I am doing great.
Happy New Year to you.
Jeannie Walters (00:52):
Thank you, Happy New Year to you, Happy
2025.
And we were joking that it'sonly been a few days, but we're
already kind of like.
I don't know if I'm going tobuy the trial right?
Andrew Carothers (01:07):
Exactly!
Jeannie Walters (01:07):
I don't know, we're still kicking the tires on
this one.
But, Andrew, now you've been inthe customer experience field a
long time you were mostrecently with Cisco and you have
a lot of experience in digitalexperience, so I would love for
you to share a little bit moreabout who you are with our
audience.
Andrew Carothers (01:21):
Sure, I've been in CX for about 15 years.
I joined Cisco in a marketingcapacity.
I think a lot of people in CXcome from maybe customer support
or marketing.
I kind of think of those as theparents of the CX discipline.
So I came in for marketing andthen when Cisco created a CX
function about 15 years ago, Iwas one of the 50 co-founders of
(01:44):
that and 50 may sound like alarge number, but out of 65,000
employees it was a very smallnumber.
So it helped to create the CXfunction at Cisco and always had
an emphasis on the digitalcomponent.
And originally it was digital asa way to scale to our thousands
of partners and tens ofthousands of customers.
But I think over the pastcertainly 15 years, but I would
(02:08):
say even five years, so justpredating the pandemic we've
seen a shift in the industry ofwhat our customers want.
So digital is not just a way toscale to maybe the lowest
dollar customer sort of the longtail but rather customers want
a digital first experience.
We'll get into this a littlebit later.
(02:28):
They want to be able to connectwith humans as well.
So I'm not saying digital only,but the role of digital in what
our customers experience, notjust in tech and not just in B2B
, but in a B2C world as well,has grown in prominence as well.
So my background in CX is itgoes back 15 years and starting
the function and really delvingin on the digital side.
(02:52):
Also because of Cisco'sbusiness being very partner
focused, very heavily focusingon how to create a CX function
that operates directly withcustomers but also through our
partners.
Jeannie Walters (03:06):
So important and I think B2B and tech and all
of those things there are somany layers right to the
customer experience and I think,one of the things that I, I
don't know if it's privileged orjust because I've been around a
while, looking back on theevolution of digital as even a
(03:27):
property, even an idea, it'sreally exciting to see, and
we're gonna talk about a fewthings today that relate to all
of this.
We're covering a lot of groundtoday.
We're covering how to connectwith customers, predictive
customer experience, all sortsof things.
So I think we should dive rightin.
What do you think?
Andrew Carothers (03:44):
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Lots to talk about.
Jeannie Walters (03:46):
So our first story today is really right, in
line with what we were justtalking about.
So this is from Gizmodo and theheadline is AT&T says it will
now credit you for outages andlong customer service wait times
.
Now what this doesn't say inthe headline is how they're
doing this.
(04:07):
This is essentially a proactivething that they're doing.
If you have an outage for morethan 20 minutes, they are saying
that they're just going tocredit your bill for a day's
worth of internet service, andif you wait for customer service
in their call center for morethan five minutes, they're going
(04:27):
to send you a $5 Visa gift card.
Now this may not sound like much, but I was intrigued by how
proactively they're offering todo this, and there have been
some really great studies latelyshowing that this does help
with longevity.
This does help with customerloyalty, but it's a complicated
(04:49):
business AT&t.
They have a lot of customers,so I'm curious on your
perspective of this, on, likethe execution of it and the
strategy of it and the weighingthe pros and cons of this.
What are your thoughts?
Andrew Carothers (05:02):
Yeah, I think it's a smart move by AT&T.
Full disclosure, I'm an AT&Tmobile customer, so I think it's
a smart move for a couple ofreasons.
The main reason is AT&T,Spectrum, other cable and phone
companies.
They're now in a world wherethey can see competition coming.
(05:26):
When the Bells were broken upyears ago it created a little
bit of competition, but not much.
But now, with Starlink andother similar type of
over-the-top providers coming,they can see that even in rural
areas there are options fortheir customers and lots of
(05:47):
times these utilities have poorreputations in their customers'
minds.
I think that, and so when theyget, when those customers get
options to move, I think they'relike they're ready to go to try
something else.
I cut the cord in my own homefrom a cable perspective a
little while ago for exactly thesame reason.
So therefore I think this is athey're being proactive, but
(06:10):
it's also proactively defensive,or the difficult competition
that they're going to face inthe very close up, you know, in
the not too distant future, letme put it that way.
So what I think it ties on hereis what do customers want?
So I don't have knowledge ofwhat the financial impact of
(06:32):
this is going to be in terms ofpotential outlays of cash.
But let's assume that they'vedone the research to determine
what they think the likelihoodof their rate of not being able
to meet the expectations they'resetting are and the cost of
that et cetera, and they'reweighing that against some
expectation of what the resultson the positive side the return
(06:55):
on this investment in building abetter customer experience,
will be.
So let's assume they've donethat calculation.
It says a couple of things.
One, there is a calculation forwhat the return on the expected
improvement in customerexpectation will be.
So I don't want to gloss overthat AT&T has probably done
(07:16):
that calculation and then madethe move to move forward,
Because that looks at sort ofnot only current operational
data how many days and how manycustomers does that affect that
we are currently having outages?
What will be the impact of this?
What improvements do we thinkwe can make?
And therefore shortening thenumber of days, shortening the
(07:37):
number of customers affected andtherefore the economic impact
of that?
Right, that's going to be hardwork on their part to do the
backend operational improvementsto solve some of these issues
more rapidly than they'resolving them today and half of
the past few years.
That is difficult work.
So, number one point love thatthey are presumably looking at
(08:02):
determining the financial impactof improving the experience
they provide their customers.
Number two they've got a longroad ahead when it turns to the
back office operationalimprovements they need to make.
That's the critical component,in my view, to an improved
(08:24):
customer experience or evenmaintaining an existing customer
experience.
What people oftentimes focus onis the customer facing
component of the experience.
What's the journey mapping?
What are the moments thatmatter?
How easy is it to navigateinformation?
Jeannie Walters (08:40):
The tip of the iceberg, right.
Andrew Carothers (08:41):
Totally important, but cannot be done
effectively.
Jeannie Walters (08:46):
That's right.
Andrew Carothers (08:46):
Acting on that and providing that front-end
experience, customer facing,can't be done effectively
without connecting on the backend data sources.
Jeannie Walters (08:58):
Yeah.
Andrew Carothers (08:58):
Um, business teams and the silos associated
with those, breaking those down,platforms and people.
Jeannie Walters (09:07):
Tools, technology, processes, it all is
together.
Andrew Carothers (09:11):
It's so hard to do, especially for a legacy
company like AT&T, where theyare ingrained in decades of
databases that don't talk toothers.
So kudos to them for them totake this on.
I think they're doing thisbecause, as I said, the
impending competition lets themknow we don't have a choice,
because we're going to lose alot of customers if we don't do
this.
(09:31):
Right! I agree.
I think, you know, the otherpart of that disruption is they
are not going, to your point,they are a big legacy company.
They are not as nimble as astartup who might be right now
trying to disrupt the industryor, you know, popping up from
one of the spinoffs of Starlinkor something like that.
(09:53):
So I think that whenever wethink about investing in
customer experience, we have tothink about it as a way to
invest in innovation andinnovation only happens to your
point, with all the stuff in thebackground.
We have to figure out how do weactually execute this.
So I think it's a great move.
I am really I'm going to bewatching it closely and I'm also
(10:14):
curious because in thisindustry, as you know, people
follow right, like other otherbrands are going to say wait,
they're doing what, we need todo what, and who's going to try
this out?
Who's going to follow?
But I think it shows howcustomers are not just expecting
the bare minimum and they'renot willing to put up with it.
(10:36):
They know that there areoptions.
And so if you are not competingagainst the customer who's
about to leave you, then you'rereally not competing.
You are.
You're just, you know waitingfor them to leave you.
And this next story I'm so, I'mso interested in this one
because I think it's like we'vebeen promised flying cars, right
(10:57):
.
We've been promised the Jetsonsfor years.
Who doesn't want a robot maid,right?
And we've talked about some ofthose innovations coming out,
but this one, I think, is prettyintriguing because it also
shows the potential partnershipswhich you have so much
experience with.
But this is from the Verge andthe headline is Samsung smart
(11:18):
fridges will use AI to suggestgroceries to buy on Instacart.
And essentially what they'redoing here is those big,
beautiful refrigerators that nowhave screens where you can
literally look inside yourrefrigerator.
Instead of just a camera, theyhave an AI camera now that
(11:40):
basically can identify,I think right now the number is
not very big, it's like 37different things food items,
including fresh produce, andthings like this.
And then they have an Instacartpartnership where, if you have
an Instacart list going, it cansay oh, I put, you know, we ran
out of eggs.
I put the eggs you like on yourInstacart order and there's a
(12:02):
lot here to love.
And it also makes me thinkabout sometimes when we have
these conveniences and then wekind of forget and we don't turn
them off, and then suddenly wemight be getting like oh wait, I
didn't want to order the eggsbecause I'm going out of town or
all those things.
But I just think thepartnership aspect of this is
(12:22):
really intriguing, and Instacartis really investing in that
partnership models.
They have partnership with likeHome Depot and a few others now
.
So what's your take on this?
Do you think our refrigeratorsare going to become sentient and
take over?
I mean I'm giggling because there's so many
funny elements to the story.
I can imagine, as you pointedout, somebody comes home from
(12:43):
vacation.
They've got stores and storesof eggs and apples and things.
Yeah, yeah, I mean we've allgone on vacation and forgotten
to shut off the mail, right?
And then you come back.
For sure, so like that's kindof funny and also this is sort
of peak innovation and peak, youknow, laziness too.
Jeannie Walters (13:01):
But laziness equals convenience, right, like
that's really what that means.
Andrew Carothers (13:07):
From a CX perspective and a partnership
perspective.
I do love this, however, becauseI love a couple of things from
a from a foundations of businessperspective, which CX is should
be interwoven into at allcompanies because of everything
we've been discussing.
But there's this concept ofright there, Samsung looking and
(13:28):
saying we're not just sellingrefrigerators.
We are, you know, and startingfrom a CX perspective to
understand what is it that ourcustomers want, right?
(13:49):
Do they simply want a box of acertain size and color that will
keep their produce cold, or dothey want something else?
Let's find out, and by talkingto customers and surveying
customers and, I would assume,using AI to analyze data so they
can be more predictive, notjust in terms of what you're
talking about the functionalityof the refrigerator but in terms
of predicting what do ourcustomers do, what do they buy,
(14:10):
what features, et cetera to thenget a deeper, better
understanding of their customers, to know they are looking to
not just store what they boughtat a grocery store, like keep it
fresh, but also to you knowwhat the friction points in that
customer journey from I needfood to I'm getting food, to I'm
(14:32):
storing it so that it's freshwhen I'm going to use it in my
home, and understanding thatwhole process and the role that
the refrigerator they sell playsas part of that process.
So, like that's, step one isfrom a CX perspective,
understanding their customersand looking at it holistically,
as opposed to in the little boxin which the refrigerator sale
(14:54):
plays.
Jeannie Walters (14:55):
It's a great point.
It's a great point and I thinkthe the fault that you're
pointing out is how manyorganizations start like they
have product teams out the wazooright, like they are obsessed
with their products, but theythink that the product is what
somebody's buying, but reallyit's what we can do with the
product, or how it helps ourlives, how it's more convenient,
(15:19):
easier.
It makes me feel a certain way,right, like I can show people
look my refrigerator orders mygroceries for me.
Isn't that cool.
That makes people feel acertain way.
So I think it's a reallyimportant point and it is one of
the things that I personallylove about the idea of journey
mapping, because it forces thosequestions.
(15:40):
It forces us to go through thatprocess and think what is
actually happening here with thecustomer?
They're not actually thinking,I mean in you know, if you're
doing a remodel, yes, you'rethinking, oh, we need a
refrigerator.
But to your point, I could getthat on Craigslist and get an
avocado green from the 70s.
(16:01):
It probably still works, right.
So it's a really really goodpoint.
Andrew Carothers (16:07):
Yeah, so from a product perspective, you're
right.
I mean, this helps distinguishthem from competitors on a
features and function capability, but also I think you touched
on something so important, whichis the emotional component.
It helps them to not only froma features and function sort of
say, I want to feel cool, I wantto feel modern, innovative, etc
(16:28):
.
But also they understand whatI'm trying to do, which is not
buy a refrigerator, I'm tryingto, you know I'm busy, I'm
trying to take care of the house, the kids, the job, like
whatever.
I'm trying to simplify my life.
And I think the focus onsimplification is so critical
(16:48):
for all CX approaches, asexemplified here.
And then to touch on thepartner side, I love that they
looked at the broader journeyand then looked at how can we
simplify that?
How can we bring simplification, how can we remove friction
points in the broader journey,whether that's a direct sort of
(17:08):
feature or function we can addto our product, or whether it's
by looking more broadly and thenpartnering more broadly.
So bringing an Instacart, whichmakes perfect sense, from a
complimentary service provider,but doing so in a way that sort
of expands the footprint theyhave without spinning up a
(17:31):
competitor to Instacart to tryto keep it all in-house.
So I love that it's like when anairline realizes we're not just
in the business of flyingpeople and goods elsewhere, they
then partner with hotels,rental cars.
We're in the people and goodsmovement business.
Even hotels, for example, thatwe're not just in the sort of
(17:55):
short-term housing for people ontrips, especially business
people, the more profitablecustomer, but we are in the
people connection business.
So some hotels, even before thepandemic, set up a sort of
conference facilities that alsoinclude either individual or
group remote meeting facilities.
(18:17):
So if you're going to come staythe night great, but if you're
just local and you need thosefacilities, great.
We've got that too.
Thinking more broadly aboutwhere they play, as opposed to
I'm the center of the universe,my business is the center of the
universe, which is not acustomer focused approach.
That's the, you know, that's aninternal focused approach.
Jeannie Walters (18:38):
Yep, and I think the you know, in this
specific example, Instacartcustomers are, you know,
Instacart customers.
They have have it on theirphone.
They always have a list goingthere.
This is what they do, and sothey might not go to a Best Buy
today and say I need a Samsungfridge, but they might do that
(18:59):
now.
They might walk in and say I'mgoing to request this because I
know this is going to help me,because this is the type of
customer I am.
So there's all sorts ofinteresting kind of overlaps and
it's very human when you getright down to it.
It is very human and it's aboutunderstanding how do customers
behave?
What do we really want and howcan we best serve them in that
(19:20):
moment in their journey, likethe way that they're living
their lives, they're notactually focused on our products
and services, they're justliving their lives trying to do
things.
So, speaking of this, this mightbe my favorite story today.
Andrew Carothers (19:33):
It's mine, it's mine.
Jeannie Walters (19:35):
We have to get to this one because it's so
goofy and fun.
So this you probably have heardabout this one because it made
quite a bit of news.
But we're talking about theWaymo, the RoboTaxi, and this
happened actually in Arizona,but it was for a man who lives
in Los Angeles and the headlinefrom CBS News says LA man nearly
(19:58):
misses flight as self-drivingWaymo taxi drives around parking
lot in circles and if you go tothe site or if you just look it
up, the video is everywherebecause he, his name is Mike
Johns.
He actually recorded himself inthis car while trying to connect
to their customer service,saying I don't know what's
(20:18):
happening, did someone hack this?
He couldn't even release theseat belt and he was just going
around in a circle in thisself-driving car and the point
that I thought was I mean, it'sa compelling story anyway, but
his point, when people haveasked him about it, he said
there just wasn't a lot ofcompassion or empathy from the
(20:40):
person he talked to and she wasbasically saying I'm working on
it, we'll get it fixed.
And Waymo, in their defense,stated that it was only about
five minutes.
He did make his flight, but itcreated all this and they didn't
charge him for the ride and allthose things.
But, I think we are in a veryspecific time in our history as
humankind right now, where weare starting to experiment with
(21:00):
more and more of these automatedtools that always required
human stewardship, really fordecades or even longer, and now
we're making this move and thetrust level is going up because
(21:22):
these are working in a lot ofways, but then we have something
that goes wrong and it's like awhole new rule book for how to
handle it.
So what?
What did you think about thisone?
Andrew Carothers (21:34):
After I stopped laughing.
Jeannie Walters (21:37):
It is a funny video.
It's like funny and I I had Iwas like anxious for him too.
Yeah.
Andrew Carothers (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I agree with you.
We are in a period of dramaticand rapid innovation, and there
will be hiccups along the way.
I think that, being up in theSan Francisco Bay Area, where
Waymo has been doing testing forat least a year, if not two
(22:05):
years, I know there's a lot oftesting that takes place before
rolling out the car.
So, that said, there will stillbe issues that come up.
So the question then right,really the meta question is how
do we then respond to thosequestions?
And this is not only sort of aphilosophical question when it
(22:27):
comes to dealing with problemsthat erupt with new innovative
technologies, but even in ourown businesses, our own lives,
you know, just old school,things happen, right.
So how does the supplier or thevendor or the service provider,
how do they respond?
So, which goes to the AT&Tstory at the beginning as well.
I think that there is amisperception that innovation or
(22:55):
digital or technology is binarywith the human element and
empathy.
I think that it's a matter ofexecution.
Sometimes that's how it'simplemented, right.
We're going to use a company,says you know, internally, they
don't say this externally.
We're going to use digitaltools, a chat bot, simply our
(23:20):
website, whatever you know,emails.
We're going to use digitalchannels to communicate with our
customers proactively as wellas from a troubleshooting
perspective.
As a way to cut costs, we'regoing to cut out the human
support element and just forceour customers right.
So I think that's a mistake,right, If you make it binary
(23:41):
like that.
It's a mistake.
I think the companies that willprovide the type of customer
experience that their customerswant and expect and given
opportunities to leave to go toa competitor demand, those
companies that will besuccessful are the ones that
combine the best of human withthe best of digital right.
(24:02):
So digital provides a muchfaster approach.
So if somebody wants to go on awebsite and find information or
, you know, interact with a chatbot or whatever it might be,
it's a much faster way to getinformation.
So that's why a lot of peoplelove it.
It's really no different thangoing to the supermarket and
(24:23):
using the you know theself-serve scanning versus
standing in line.
That said companies thatprovide a digital channel or
(24:51):
multiple digital channels needto build those channels with
human empathy in mind.
Meaning the actual building,the development of that channel,
and the processes that aregoing to operate it moving
forward need to be created inconjunction with the customer.
Customer interviews, customerdata analysis, et cetera.
So upfront, before it evenrolls out, It's built with the
centered around the customer.
Jeannie Walters (24:57):
Yes, Just like we were talking about with the
refrigerator.
Andrew Carothers (25:00):
Just like that .
Exactly.
And then you know if somethinghappens and a digital channel is
first option, there needs to bea simple, easy and easy to find
option to connect with a human.
So I'm not sure if that was thecase with the Waymo guy, but
(25:21):
for most companies justproviding an easy way.
I've seen companies that dothis very well.
I've been frustrated withcompanies that don't do it well
at all.
And then the other element,which is not new, is when
customers connect with thosehumans.
Digital channel as well, butfocusing on the inside.
There needs to be valueprovided by that agent.
So, I have been struggling towith my car manufacturer, I
won't name him who was supposedto send me an adapter for my
(25:43):
electric car, and it was.
I've been waiting almost a yearnow for it.
Jeannie Walters (25:59):
Oh my goodness.
Andrew Carothers (25:59):
And it was supposed to come in October.
Then it was December, now it'sJanuary.
I called customer support.
The number says if you havequestions about this specific
issue, call this number.
So I called.
Agent, had no information totell me.
Jeannie Walters (26:13):
Oh my gosh, that's frustrating.
Andrew Carothers (26:16):
So, you've got to build in the empathy into
the process and into the digitalcomponent as well as the human
component, and you have to haveagain that back-end connectivity
that we were talking aboutearlier, so that when people
connect with you, whetherdigitally or human-based, that
there's value in that process.
(26:36):
and
Jeannie Walters (26:36):
And they know where you are on your journey,
they know exactly what you'redealing with and I think the
whole idea that we get sowrapped up in these innovations
sometimes that we think it's allgoing to go exactly as planned.
(26:57):
And whenever we're talking withclients about how to innovate
and plan, one of the bigquestions we need to ask is what
if?
What if this doesn't work?
What if they can't reachsomebody through that channel?
What if that?
You know?
What if the chatbot is down?
Where do they go?
We have to really think throughlike what if it doesn't work?
And I think that's what thishighlights is that we sometimes
get, we kind of fall in lovewith our own ideas and we think
(27:17):
it's all going to work and wespend so much time and effort
getting it right and we don'tthink about when things will go
wrong, but they will.
You know, like that's life wethat's how it goes.
Yeah, so right about that.
So well, this was so fun, Andrew.
I I mean, let's do this again.
Andrew Carothers (27:37):
Yeah, I would love to cause.
I love, I love the opportunityto talk about sort of the
fundamental practices of thediscipline of customer
experience from practicalapplications like this.
I think it really helps peopleunderstand some of the big
picture themes and processesthat we like to talk about.
Jeannie Walters (27:57):
Right.
I always say it's really easyto say just be nice to customers
, right, like that's easy to say, but when you actually figure
out what that means it's, it's awhole you know profession.
So yeah, well, this was so fun.
Thank you so much for joiningme for CX Pulse Check.
And if people want to know moreabout you, how can they reach
(28:18):
out to you?
Andrew Carothers (28:19):
Best way to reach out to me is on LinkedIn.
I'm easy to find.
I love talking to people, soplease do reach out, connect
with me, and then we'll start aconversation.
Jeannie Walters (28:29):
Awesome and we'll make sure that link is in
our show notes as well.
So thank you and thanks to allof you out there for listening,
for participating in theExperience Action podcast.
Don't forget, you can alwaysleave me a voicemail with your
question that I can answer on afuture episode at askjeannievip
(28:50):
and, if you haven't already,check out the CXI Compass at
experienceinvestigatorscom tofind out where you are on your
CX journey and see what the nextsteps could be for you.
Thank you so much, thank you toour guests, thank you to all of
us listeners and I reallyappreciate you here on episode
101 of the Experience ActionPodcast.
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