November 4, 2025 • 27 mins
Want customers to talk about your brand without being asked? In this CX Pulse Check, we bring on Brooke Sellas, founder of B Squared Media and a leader in social customer care, to unpack how emotion—not content volume—creates durable connection, retention, and revenue. Together we push past vanity metrics and dig into signals that actually matter: the unsolicited thank-yous, the screenshots, the stitches, and the small moments of care customers can’t help but share.
Our conversation moves from principle to practice. We map out how to define success for customers and for the business, then build joy loops that reward participation and make advocacy feel like a feature. We talk candidly about creator care—how high-velocity social teams face relentless expectations and why, in the age of AI, creative risk is the differentiator. We also look inside modern support: when bots deflect FAQs, humans inherit the complex, emotional problems.
We also break down Salesforce’s decision to replace a lightly used help search with AI and the community backlash that followed. The lesson is clear: internal metrics don’t equal external sentiment. Listening publicly, restoring a dedicated search capability, and co-creating with power users can turn friction into fuel.
If you care about customer experience, social strategy, or contact center leadership, you’ll leave with insights for measuring emotion, protecting the people who power your brand, and taking smart risks that cut through AI’s sea of sameness.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a teammate, and leave a quick review.
About Brooke Sellas:
Brooke Sellas is shaping the future of digital marketing one conversation at a time. As an award-winning CEO, she leads B Squared Media, a boutique agency redefining 'social care' for brands like Brother International, Miele, and BCU. You can dive into her insights through her book Conversations That Connect, her thought leadership on CMSWire, or her expert-led courses—among them, three digital marketing courses at the University of California, Irvine (one focused on AI & Marketing) and a LinkedIn Learning course on Social Care.
Learn More About B Squared Media at https://bsquared.media/
Follow Brooke on...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brookebsellas/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HelloBSquared/podcasts
Articles Mentioned:
- To Set Your Brand Apart, Create Moments of Shareable Joy (Harvard Business Review) -- https://hbr.org/2025/09/to-set-your-brand-apart-create-moments-of-shareable-joy
- Duolingo’s Departing Social Media Manager Talks Virality, Anxiety and Mental Health (The Wall Street Journal) -- https://www.wsj.com/articles/duolingos-departing-social-media-manager-talks-virality-anxiety-and-mental-health-63d36f40
- Salesforce Responds to User Backlash Over Replacing Help Search with Agentforce (CX Today) -- https://www.cxtoday.com/crm/salesforce-responds-to-user-backlash-over-replacing-help-search-with-agentforce/
Want to ask a question? Visit askjeannie.vip to leave Jeannie a voicemail! (And don't forget to follow Jeannie on LinkedIn! www.linkedin.com/in/jeanniewalters/)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeannie Walters (00:09):
It's the Experience Action Podcast, and
it's my favorite episode of themonth.
It's time for CX Pulse Check.
This is where I check in with aspecial co-host, and we talk
about several things happeningin the moment around customer
experience, customer engagement,employee experience, all sorts
of things.
Now, my guest today has aspecialty around social customer
(00:32):
care.
And I'm so excited to bring herinto this conversation.
So I am thrilled to welcomeBrooke Sellas today.
Hi, Brooke.
Brooke Sellas (00:41):
Hello.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Jeannie Walters (00:44):
I am thrilled to have you here.
And I know why, but I wouldlove for you to share a little
bit about yourself and the workthat you do.
Brooke Sellas (00:52):
Sure.
So I'm Brooke Sellas.
I own a company called BSquared Media.
We do social media services.
So social media management,paid media management, but our
big service, which you know, iswhat we call social media
customer care.
And that's where we help ourmiddle market to
enterprise-sized brands withsocial selling and retaining
(01:13):
their customers through theirsocial channels.
So it's like it's just like itsounds like customer support,
customer care, but on social.
Jeannie Walters (01:22):
And you know what?
It seems like we would havemore discussions about this,
right?
Because it's everywhere.
It's everywhere.
Brooke Sellas (01:29):
Literally.
Jeannie Walters (01:30):
We as customers we rely on this.
Like when I have to actuallypick up the phone, I'm kind of
like, wait, what?
How why do I have to do this?
Brooke Sellas (01:37):
I say it all the time.
I'm like, I don't pick up thephone.
Maybe I'll email you, but I'llprobably take to social because
I know I'm gonna get an answerthere faster.
Jeannie Walters (01:44):
So exactly.
I know.
And some some of the socialplatforms I'm not even really
active on anymore, but I stilluse to DM certain brands when I
need things.
That's a secret.
Brooke Sellas (01:56):
Yes.
Not so secret secret.
Jeannie Walters (02:00):
Well, we have some good stuff to dive into
today.
And I loved kind of thinkingthrough this differently because
you and I were just talking alittle bit before uh recording.
And one of the things that wewere saying was, you know,
there's all this talk right nowabout AI and the bots and the
fear of the robots are comingand, you know, all of those
(02:22):
things.
And yet at the end of the day,it feels like we all are still
craving right now that humanconnection and what that means.
And so this first story is fromone of my favorite sources, the
Harvard Business Review.
And the title is To Set YourBrand Apart, Create Moments of
Shareable Joy.
(02:43):
And the article really goesinto how the idea of growth in
this competitive market has to,we have to think about it a
little bit differently.
And we have to really beprepared to provide things not
only for our customers, but alsothings that they want to share.
So I'm really curious on yourtake on this and and really what
(03:07):
we can all walk away with.
Brooke Sellas (03:09):
I say this all the time, um, especially on
podcasts like this one.
Content is the vehicle, emotionis the destination.
And I think what I seehappening with a lot of brands,
especially on social media whereI spend a lot of my time, is
content has become the currency.
Not because it is the currency,but that's what brands want it
(03:30):
to be, and that's what they'vemade it, but that's not the
currency.
The currency is connection.
And to get to that connection,your content has to create that
joy that's not only joy withinyourself, but also, as the
article points out, joy that isshareable, something that is so
powerful that you want to shareit.
Or you, in my opinion, sharingcould also mean sharing your
(03:52):
opinions and feelings on thattheme of content or whatever it
is.
So it really resonated with me,but I don't think a lot of
people think about it that way.
Jeannie Walters (04:03):
I agree.
I agree.
And first of all, say thatphrase one more time.
Content is
Brooke Sellas (04:08):
Content is the vehicle, emotion is the
destination.
Jeannie Walters (04:12):
Love that so much.
And one of the things I pulledout from this article was this
quote, and I'm reading, so I getit right, but it says build joy
loops where the act of sharingis as rewarding as the product
itself.
Your most successful and leastexpensive ad campaign could be
reposting when your product orservice brought one of your
(04:34):
customers joy.
Brooke Sellas (04:36):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (04:37):
I mean, and I what I love about this too, and
I think why it resonated withboth of us so much, the mission
of Experience Investigators , mycompany, has always been to
create fewer ruined days forcustomers.
And that sounds so simple, butthe idea is sometimes just
getting the basics is like ifyou're not preventing someone
(04:58):
from going on with their day,that's great.
And if you can get to thatlevel of joy, if you can get to
something where they go, oh mygosh, this felt good, that's
like next level.
And that's something that mostorganizations, frankly, cannot
do unless they are superintentional.
And that's why we're alwaystalking about like defining your
(05:20):
intentional success aroundcustomer experience.
What does success look like foryour customers and for your
organization?
Because if you don't have thatintention, how can you create
these joy loops that people arelike, not only did I get this
product, but look at whathappened.
Yeah.
And it's just so, so cool.
And I think there is that italso creates that sense of
(05:41):
community that we were justtalking about.
Brooke Sellas (05:44):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think we're so focused in onclicks, right?
And by the way, we're nowliving in a clickless world.
So if you're still banking onclicks, you better find
something else to take to thebank.
Jeannie Walters (05:56):
We have bad news for you.
Brooke Sellas (05:58):
Oh, sorry.
But I think what we don't lookat in the in reference to this
article, but also just in incontent being the vehicle for
emotion, is where is your forfor us, because again we're we
deal in social, where is whereare you making people say thank
you?
Or where are they giving youthat digital smile?
(06:20):
Where are they taking thosescreenshots, right?
When you share something.
Those are all little likeshareable moments of joy that we
need to start thinking about asmetrics because now we know
that we're moving the needlearound emotion or joy or
shareable joy, and then we candouble down.
We can't do anything with it ifwe're not measuring it.
And so I think the first thingpeople need to do is to start to
(06:41):
think about how to measurethings like shareable joy.
What does that look like?
Jeannie Walters (06:46):
Yeah, I love that.
And I think it's such achallenging, creative,
interesting question, and that'swhere this is where I get
excited about like this is whyAI can't take over the world
because we need humans to thinklike this and to connect
emotions with what this allmeans and all of those things.
(07:07):
Now, we can certainly get somehelp from AI, but I'm just
saying, like, there is somethingso special about when humans
are challenged with this type ofthing that I really believe
we're never gonna lose that.
But I could be naive, and whenthe robots take over, you know
why maybe I didn't make it.
Brooke Sellas (07:27):
No, you'll you'll make it because you're nice,
but we just, you know, we mightbe like, I don't know, greasing
the robot wheels or something.
Jeannie Walters (07:36):
We'll we'll have very specific jobs.
Brooke Sellas (07:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (07:40):
Well, speaking of joy, one of the brands that
really stood out for theirsocial campaigns in the last, I
would say probably a couple ofyears, is Duolingo, the language
app that people love.
And um in this story, this is alittle bit older than I usually
do on pulse checks, but thispulse check, I should say, but
(08:04):
this led me down a rabbit hole.
And that's what I wanted totalk to you about.
So this is from the Wall StreetJournal.
It's actually from August, andit's their CMO Today section.
And the headline is Duolingo'sDeparting Social Media Manager
Talks Virality, Anxiety, andMental Health.
And what was fascinating tolearn is that this this woman,
(08:28):
this young woman, um, she is, Ithink, now 26 years old.
So that means that she wasdoing this in a time when, you
know, it was she was very young.
And um her her name is ZariaParvez.
I wanted to make sure I lookthat up.
She's now head of social atDoorDash.
(08:48):
So she left Duolingo, she wentto DoorDash.
The rabbit hole I went down wasfirst of all learning about,
you know, the fact that she waspretty open about this is
intense.
Like these jobs are superintense.
And then when she went toDoorDash, and I was looking at
her LinkedIn profile and some ofthe stuff that she has out
there, she's very honest.
(09:10):
Like the first month, she waskind of like, hey, this is what
we're doing the first month.
I'm trying stuff, I still don'tknow what I'm doing.
And I think there's somethingto learn here because Duolingo
did so many creative things.
We've talked about them on CXPulse Check, I think a few
times.
Brooke Sellas (09:25):
They've been talkworthy.
Jeannie Walters (09:26):
They've been talkworthy.
Brooke Se (09:27):
It's quite a success.
Jeannie Walters (09:28):
Yeah.
And that was, you know, initself worth talking about.
But now she's framing like boththe jobs and also the
transparency, the visibilityaround we don't always know
what's going to work in social.
Brooke Sellas (09:44):
Right.
Jeannie Walters (09:45):
So what what did you did?
You go down the same rabbithole, first of all.
Brooke Sellas (09:49):
I definitely went down a rabbit hole, but I think
it was slightly different.
Or maybe it's the same.
I think we're gonna cometogether on this.
But my thought was, gosh, youknow, we talk about customer
care all the time, but we veryseldom talk about creator care.
Jeannie Walters (10:02):
Oh, yeah.
Right.
Brooke Sellas (10:04):
And that's what this is.
We we have to care for thepeople who are making those
connection points on the brandside, the creators, just as much
as we care for the customers,because the ultimate goal is
connection.
And we're hopefully taking careof our customers like crazy to
help get to that connection.
But I think in a lot of ways,we miss the inside.
(10:25):
We miss taking care of or thatcreator care to make sure that
both sides are feelingcomfortable and safe and
vulnerable and willing to makethose connections that we need
to happen.
Jeannie Walters (10:36):
Well, and it brings me to kind of another
side door here because one ofthe things I've talked about is
this idea that as AI andchatbots and things start
serving people, we're going tohave more demand.
And I was just on a leadershipcall last week, and one of the
things that we talked about washow their contact center was
(11:00):
not, I mean, think of thesenumbers.
This is a huge global brand.
They were deflecting 60% ofwhat was coming into the contact
center to automated methods,meaning you either got a chatbot
or you got an uh voice, you gotvoice recognition and um a
voice respondent as well, but itwas all automated.
(11:22):
So, what that meant was allthose like standard questions
FAQs and things like that.
Yeah, they were all beinghandled.
So then what was left was alllike tier two, tier three
concerns, and they were findingthat they could not find the
right kind of mix of skills forwho they used to hire.
(11:45):
So now they're doing thingslike looking at people with
engineering degrees, people withaccounting degrees, people with
MBAs to serve in the contactcenter, because that's the level
that we're getting to now.
Brooke Sellas (12:02):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (12:03):
And every time we talk about this, I always
want to say we cannot forgetwhat that does to somebody.
When you're dealing with thegnarliest, like right, like the
hardest things to solve, themost emotional, because by the
time they get to tier two andtier three, people are already
frustrated, yeah, feelinghopeless, maybe there's
something really urgent.
(12:23):
So if we're if you're doingthat type of work all day, that
is not sustainable for anybody.
So I think we have to thinkabout this both as creator care
and also the the support peoplecare.
Like what are we doing?
Brooke Sellas (12:39):
Yes, yes.
I was just watching um oh mygosh, what's the movie about
Tinder that just came out?
Swipe, swipe something.
Jeannie Walters (12:50):
Oh, I haven't watched it yet, but now I want
to.
Brooke Sellas (12:52):
You've got to go watch it, it's really good.
Um, but also to your point,this is what I think we uh have
failed to do as a society,really, and that is to take care
of the the support people.
They are your front line, theyknow your customers inside and
out, and yet they're usually theleast educated, least paid
(13:14):
people on the team.
But they hold the key toliterally all of the voice of
customer data that we're so, youknow, we all want to want it
all.
Right.
We want it all, we're obsessed,we want it all.
They have all of that, and yetwe're going and spending
bajillions of dollars on toolsthat'll maybe help us get there
when you could just probably goask your frontline,
Jeannie Walters (13:33):
Yeah
Brooke Sellas (13:33):
Your support group, and they would know.
Jeannie Walters (13:37):
It's so true, yeah.
And I think the the whole ideaof to your point, like creator
care is really important too.
I've found, I mean, I run, youknow, a teeny company, but we do
a lot of content, and that'salways been my MO.
Like I've always just that'show I started this company.
I just started writing.
Brooke Sellas (13:58):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (13:59):
And now there's so much demand, and there's so
much, there are so many placesof both output for us and input
that we have to manage.
Brooke Sellas (14:09):
Yes.
Jeannie Walters (14:10):
That there are times I'm like, I have to call a
timeout and be like, I cannot,I'm not in the right frame of
mind, right?
Like I can't do it all thetime.
And so I think figuring outkind of how can we allow people,
because everybody's differentwith this too.
So how can we allow people tosay, I need a timeout, I need, I
(14:30):
need to step away, I need toget some inspiration somewhere,
you know, like all of thosethings that are so important.
Because when she talked aboutwhen this um, you know, the head
of social at formerly Duolingo,in this article, she talks
about like it was intensepartially because there's also
(14:51):
this internal stuff.
You know, you have to you haveto report your numbers, you have
to talk to people and who mightnot understand that this is an
experiment, that noteverything's going to work.
Brooke Sellas (15:03):
Yes.
Yeah, I think we hear that allthe time from our clients
working in social, is likeeverything is expected to be a
huge win.
Jeannie Walters (15:10):
Yeah.
Brooke Sellas (15:10):
And we're like, no, no.
Yeah.
This is a this is this is atotal playground.
This is a total experiment.
This is an A B test.
This is a beta test, whateverit is.
I think we put so much pressureon creators and teams,
especially content teams, tolike see these giant wins.
Like, think about the way youbuild relationships and you
connect with people in reallife.
(15:31):
It's never just like a giantwin.
I don't meet you and I'm like,you're my new best friend, come
over, you know.
Jeannie Walters (15:38):
You know, I like to think so, but yeah.
Brooke Sellas (15:41):
Well, maybe you have that natural ability.
But I think most of us, it's itcomes in little like fits and
starts, right?
It's it's not we have to lookat the whole board.
I think we've we need to pullback a little bit and look at
the whole board versus focusingin on like this one piece of
content is gotta make it forwhatever the KPI is, you know.
Jeannie Walters (16:01):
Right.
Whatever the KPI is.
Brooke Sellas (16:04):
Yeah, because who knows?
Jeannie Walters (16:05):
That's definitely the quote of the
episode.
Um so I well, I will bewatching Zaria Parvez because I
think it's fascinating.
I hope I'm saying her nameright too, but uh I think it's
going to be fascinating to seeif she's able to make that same
magic at DoorDash because thestakes are so high, the
pressure's so high, and it's adifferent thing.
(16:28):
Like people don't interact inthe same way as they do with a
Duolingo, but just thecreativity that she showed that
and and the fact that she didearn the trust of the leaders
who said, Yeah, you can have theicon melt, right?
Like they did that, they didall those crazy lights, like in
(16:48):
New York and stuff.
So being able to take thoserisks and see what works and see
if that lines up with thenumbers that those KPIs that
everybody cares about, yeah.
Whatever they are.
Brooke Sellas (17:00):
Quick point though that you're making here
that I don't know if you knowyou're making it or not, but
like risk is going to be soimportant because we are living
in a time of AI and everythinghas become content is now like a
commodity, right?
Anybody can create it using AI.
Doesn't mean it's good content,and so I think taking those
risks with creativity is goingto be so important in the time
(17:24):
of AI where everything is likekind of the sea of sameness.
Jeannie Walters (17:27):
Yes, yes.
That's a great point that youjust made.
No, you were making it.
Well, it's it's an interestingsegue because this last one,
it's a little outside of thecontent space and it's more
about you know, everything isdata driven, right?
We hear that all the time.
All these data-drivendecisions.
(17:47):
So Salesforce, which is thisenormous company that has a
zillion and a half customers andcustomers upon customers, they
uh made a change because theysaw something that uh they
didn't think people were usinganymore.
And it was a search bar ontheir site.
And so they said, Oh, well,we're gonna replace that because
(18:10):
now we have all these otheroptions, people can find things
different ways.
And it didn't go exactly asthey planned.
So this is from CX Today, andthe headline is Salesforce
Responds to User Backlash overreplacing help search with Agent
Force.
Now, Agent Force, for those ofyou who don't know, is their AI
(18:32):
kind of functionality that helpswith that.
So what happened was they theylooked at their data, and their
data said something like only1.6, I don't know the exact
number right now, but they were,you know, a very low amount of
people were still using thesearch bar.
So they just took it away.
Unceremoniously, they just tookit away.
(18:54):
And what happened in all theiruser forums, their feedback, all
of it, there was a verypassionate vocal group who loved
the search bar.
So they literally had tobackpedal and rethink it a
little bit because if we hadjust gone with numbers, it seems
like such a logical thing todo.
(19:15):
But when they did the logicalthing, the vocal, passionate
group showed up.
And I think this goes back tothe points that we've been
making this whole episode, whichis like it all comes back to
emotion, it all comes back tohumans and like understanding
that they're not always going togo in lockstep with what the
data says and all of thosethings.
(19:36):
So, what did you think aboutthis?
Because I'm sure you seesimilar things on the side.
Brooke Sellas (19:42):
Yeah, it was 1.7%, which feels small.
But when they but that'sactually a large group of people
when you think about theircustomer base, right?
Um, to me, the message, the theentire message was internal
data doesn't equal externalsentiment.
Yep.
(20:02):
You really have to talk to yourcustomers.
Like I'm sure you say this allthe time to your clients.
Like, when's the last time youactually spoke with a customer?
Did anybody on the Salesforceteam think to call that small,
small, small, small group of1.7% and just say, hey, we're
(20:22):
gonna talk to 50 people who useit and we're gonna say, usage is
low.
We're trying to, we're we'rethinking about dismantling this
service.
Imagine them them doing thatand perhaps getting all 50
people to say passionately asthey did, like bashing the
company when it actuallyhappened, just to say
passionally, do not remove it.
I love it.
This is how I this is how I useit, right?
(20:45):
And then could you turn thatuser-generated content into
education so that more of youruser base started to use the
function or the feature?
Jeannie Walters (20:52):
Oh, that's interesting too.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and it it does have to bea cycle, right?
Like we have to provide thecontent and then listen to that
feedback and then come back withmore content, look at your data
and your feedback to create,you know, the next thing.
But I just thought it wasreally interesting that first of
(21:15):
all, I give them credit.
I give Salesforce creditbecause they did actually come
back and they said, We heardyou.
And in fact, there's a greatquote.
I'm gonna read it here.
You've made clear that evenwith low usage, the search bar
is a critical tool for many ofyou, and that removing it
created friction in yourworkflow.
We hear you because of yourfeedback we are committing to
(21:36):
bringing back a dedicated searchcapability to Salesforce help.
This is a top priority.
And what I loved about this wasthey basically said not only
did we hear you, because a lotof a lot of statements say that
they go, Oh, yeah, we heard you,and then they don't change
anything.
Brooke Sellas (21:51):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (21:52):
Um, they they also kind of couch the promise a
little bit because it doesn'tsay we're bringing back the
search bar exactly as it was.
Brooke Sellas (21:59):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (21:59):
Right?
They're saying we're going tohave this dedicated search
capability.
So you know, we have to evolve.
We can't have the sametechnology all the time.
But I like the way that theybasically said, okay, even
though you're small, there aremany of you, and we heard you,
and we are going to do somethingabout it.
(22:20):
And I think that is a lessonfor a lot of organizations who
sometimes will, again,unceremoniously just be like,
Well, we're not doing thisanymore.
And they think, well, that's asmall group.
We don't have to listen tothem, we don't have to do that.
Even a small group can have abig voice.
Brooke Sellas (22:37):
Oh, yes.
Yeah, I think there's a therethere too about metrics versus
voice of customer metrics,right?
They were looking at some sortof internal dashboard of
metrics, but I don't think theywere including that voice of
customer data mix into that,which is where the miss was.
But to your point, they notonly said I hear you, but they
said we're going to do somethingabout it.
(22:58):
We're going to take action now.
Now we have to watch and makesure they do that.
Jeannie Walters (23:02):
That's right.
Eyes on you, Salesforce.
But, you know, going back towhat you just said too about the
metrics, we always we love tosay this, but it's like there is
no one magic metric.
Brooke Sellas (23:17):
I wish.
Jeannie Walters (23:17):
When you are talking about customers, you
have to look at yes, feedbackand voice of the customer, and
operational metrics like this,like usage.
That's very important.
Brooke Sellas (23:27):
Sure.
Jeannie Walters (23:28):
And things like behavioral analytics and what
else are they doing?
And it's putting all of thattogether and understanding the
nuance of that because a lot oftimes people will say one thing
and behave totally differentlytoo.
Brooke Sellas (23:42):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (23:42):
So they might say, Yeah, we don't need the
search bar, but then if youlook, yeah, a lot of people are
still using it.
So it's really important tokind of create that.
I always think of it as a Venndiagram of, you know, what
building blocks do you have andwhat's in the middle that you
can really rely on for this ishow people actually feel and
this is how they're behaving,and this is how we need to
react.
(24:03):
So yeah, I totally agree withyou on that.
Brooke Sellas (24:05):
I love that you said nuance too, because I
would, if it were my project, Iwould want to talk to these
people and find out how they'reusing it.
Right.
It reminds me of IKEA.
IKEA has that whole likesecondary site that's run by
IKEA users who talk about howthey build things from these
products, but they're not in thetradition, but not in the
(24:26):
traditional way.
They build like some otherthing or do some other thing
with it.
That could be what's happeningwith the search bar.
Maybe they're not using ittraditionally, but if everybody
knew that they were using it inthis cool, nuanced way, more
people would adopt it.
I don't know.
To me, it just sounds like afun area to dig into.
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (24:43):
Well, and you know they're power users, right?
You know they're they're peoplewho are you don't get
passionate about a search barunless it is part of your daily
workflow.
Brooke Sellas (24:53):
They're a there there.
Jeannie Walters (24:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I I agree.
Like finding out what they'reusing it for, what they would
look for in the next iteration,like bring them in, co-create
with this group.
Brooke Sellas (25:06):
Yes.
I love that you went to theco-creation and the
collaboration piece because Ithink, yeah, like to my point
earlier, like creating some sortof UGC or user-generated
content campaign around whatthese people are doing, because
it's got to be good, whatever itis.
That's what that's my feeling,too.
Jeannie Walters (25:19):
I agree.
I agree.
And you mentioned Ikea, itreminds me of Lego too, who they
do a lot, and they didn't usedto do that, but they discovered
all these adult enthusiasts andthey started nurturing that
community just by asking them,like, what are you doing?
Brooke Sellas (25:36):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (25:37):
And what would you want to see?
And that's why the Lego setsyou see sometimes are so
complicated and complex becauseadults were like, We want more,
we want like lifelong Legoenthusiasts.
Brooke Sellas (25:49):
Yes, yes.
Jeannie Walters (25:50):
Which 20 years ago they would have said it's
you know for
Brooke Sellas (25:53):
it's for kids, yeah.
Jeannie Walters (25:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Brooke Sellas (25:54):
But imagine it, imagine that revenue stream.
Jeannie Walters (25:57):
Oh. Right?
Brooke Sellas (25:57):
Imagine that revenue stream from that
specific, you know, idealcustomer profile within Lego,
that adult, yeah, you know,hobbyist or whatever you call
it.
Like, I can only imagine howmuch money they bring in there.
All because they listened
Jeannie Walters (26:11):
completely
and then gave the customerswhat they were asking for.
Right.
Right?
Brooke Sellas (26:17):
No one was like, it's not that hard.
Jeannie Walters (26:21):
But it is, it is hard.
I acknowledge that too.
So, well, this was so much fun.
I knew it would be, and you dosuch great work, and I hope that
people follow you on LinkedInand some other places because
you also, you know, speaking ofcontent, uh, you provide a lot
of great content as well.
So
Brooke Sellas (26:38):
Thank you.
Jeannie Walters (26:39):
If people want to reach out or connect with you
or just learn more about whatyou do, what are the best ways
for them to do that?
Brooke Sellas (26:44):
I'm always hanging out on LinkedIn.
So if you're a LinkedIn person,come find me there, connect.
Tell me, tell me you found mehere, and we can talk about all
kinds of things.
Um, I also put out a lot ofcontent.
And if you want to find outmore about B Squared Media, you
could head over to our website,which is bsquared.media.
Jeannie Walters (27:03):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Thank you so much, Brooke.
It was so much fun.
Brooke Se (27:07):
Thanks for having me.
Jeannie Walters (27:07):
And we'll have to do this again.
Brooke Sellas (27:09):
Yes, please.
Jeannie Walters (27:11):
Well, thank you, and thank you for both
watching and listening toExperience Action week after
week.
Now, when I'm not hosting a CXPulse Check episode, I'm
answering your questions.
So don't forget, you can leaveme a voicemail at askjeannie.vip
And I will answer your questionabout customer experience.
(27:32):
I can't wait to see you againnext time.
Thanks for being here.
Bye-bye.
It's the Experience Action Podcast, and
it's my favorite episode of themonth.
It's time for CX Pulse Check.
This is where I check in with aspecial co-host, and we talk
about several things happeningin the moment around customer
experience, customer engagement,employee experience, all sorts
of things.
Now, my guest today has aspecialty around social customer
(00:32):
care.
And I'm so excited to bring herinto this conversation.
So I am thrilled to welcomeBrooke Sellas today.
Hi, Brooke.
Brooke Sellas (00:41):
Hello.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Jeannie Walters (00:44):
I am thrilled to have you here.
And I know why, but I wouldlove for you to share a little
bit about yourself and the workthat you do.
Brooke Sellas (00:52):
Sure.
So I'm Brooke Sellas.
I own a company called BSquared Media.
We do social media services.
So social media management,paid media management, but our
big service, which you know, iswhat we call social media
customer care.
And that's where we help ourmiddle market to
enterprise-sized brands withsocial selling and retaining
(01:13):
their customers through theirsocial channels.
So it's like it's just like itsounds like customer support,
customer care, but on social.
Jeannie Walters (01:22):
And you know what?
It seems like we would havemore discussions about this,
right?
Because it's everywhere.
It's everywhere.
Brooke Sellas (01:29):
Literally.
Jeannie Walters (01:30):
We as customers we rely on this.
Like when I have to actuallypick up the phone, I'm kind of
like, wait, what?
How why do I have to do this?
Brooke Sellas (01:37):
I say it all the time.
I'm like, I don't pick up thephone.
Maybe I'll email you, but I'llprobably take to social because
I know I'm gonna get an answerthere faster.
Jeannie Walters (01:44):
So exactly.
I know.
And some some of the socialplatforms I'm not even really
active on anymore, but I stilluse to DM certain brands when I
need things.
That's a secret.
Brooke Sellas (01:56):
Yes.
Not so secret secret.
Jeannie Walters (02:00):
Well, we have some good stuff to dive into
today.
And I loved kind of thinkingthrough this differently because
you and I were just talking alittle bit before uh recording.
And one of the things that wewere saying was, you know,
there's all this talk right nowabout AI and the bots and the
fear of the robots are comingand, you know, all of those
(02:22):
things.
And yet at the end of the day,it feels like we all are still
craving right now that humanconnection and what that means.
And so this first story is fromone of my favorite sources, the
Harvard Business Review.
And the title is To Set YourBrand Apart, Create Moments of
Shareable Joy.
(02:43):
And the article really goesinto how the idea of growth in
this competitive market has to,we have to think about it a
little bit differently.
And we have to really beprepared to provide things not
only for our customers, but alsothings that they want to share.
So I'm really curious on yourtake on this and and really what
(03:07):
we can all walk away with.
Brooke Sellas (03:09):
I say this all the time, um, especially on
podcasts like this one.
Content is the vehicle, emotionis the destination.
And I think what I seehappening with a lot of brands,
especially on social media whereI spend a lot of my time, is
content has become the currency.
Not because it is the currency,but that's what brands want it
(03:30):
to be, and that's what they'vemade it, but that's not the
currency.
The currency is connection.
And to get to that connection,your content has to create that
joy that's not only joy withinyourself, but also, as the
article points out, joy that isshareable, something that is so
powerful that you want to shareit.
Or you, in my opinion, sharingcould also mean sharing your
(03:52):
opinions and feelings on thattheme of content or whatever it
is.
So it really resonated with me,but I don't think a lot of
people think about it that way.
Jeannie Walters (04:03):
I agree.
I agree.
And first of all, say thatphrase one more time.
Content is
Brooke Sellas (04:08):
Content is the vehicle, emotion is the
destination.
Jeannie Walters (04:12):
Love that so much.
And one of the things I pulledout from this article was this
quote, and I'm reading, so I getit right, but it says build joy
loops where the act of sharingis as rewarding as the product
itself.
Your most successful and leastexpensive ad campaign could be
reposting when your product orservice brought one of your
(04:34):
customers joy.
Brooke Sellas (04:36):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (04:37):
I mean, and I what I love about this too, and
I think why it resonated withboth of us so much, the mission
of Experience Investigators , mycompany, has always been to
create fewer ruined days forcustomers.
And that sounds so simple, butthe idea is sometimes just
getting the basics is like ifyou're not preventing someone
(04:58):
from going on with their day,that's great.
And if you can get to thatlevel of joy, if you can get to
something where they go, oh mygosh, this felt good, that's
like next level.
And that's something that mostorganizations, frankly, cannot
do unless they are superintentional.
And that's why we're alwaystalking about like defining your
(05:20):
intentional success aroundcustomer experience.
What does success look like foryour customers and for your
organization?
Because if you don't have thatintention, how can you create
these joy loops that people arelike, not only did I get this
product, but look at whathappened.
Yeah.
And it's just so, so cool.
And I think there is that italso creates that sense of
(05:41):
community that we were justtalking about.
Brooke Sellas (05:44):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think we're so focused in onclicks, right?
And by the way, we're nowliving in a clickless world.
So if you're still banking onclicks, you better find
something else to take to thebank.
Jeannie Walters (05:56):
We have bad news for you.
Brooke Sellas (05:58):
Oh, sorry.
But I think what we don't lookat in the in reference to this
article, but also just in incontent being the vehicle for
emotion, is where is your forfor us, because again we're we
deal in social, where is whereare you making people say thank
you?
Or where are they giving youthat digital smile?
(06:20):
Where are they taking thosescreenshots, right?
When you share something.
Those are all little likeshareable moments of joy that we
need to start thinking about asmetrics because now we know
that we're moving the needlearound emotion or joy or
shareable joy, and then we candouble down.
We can't do anything with it ifwe're not measuring it.
And so I think the first thingpeople need to do is to start to
(06:41):
think about how to measurethings like shareable joy.
What does that look like?
Jeannie Walters (06:46):
Yeah, I love that.
And I think it's such achallenging, creative,
interesting question, and that'swhere this is where I get
excited about like this is whyAI can't take over the world
because we need humans to thinklike this and to connect
emotions with what this allmeans and all of those things.
(07:07):
Now, we can certainly get somehelp from AI, but I'm just
saying, like, there is somethingso special about when humans
are challenged with this type ofthing that I really believe
we're never gonna lose that.
But I could be naive, and whenthe robots take over, you know
why maybe I didn't make it.
Brooke Sellas (07:27):
No, you'll you'll make it because you're nice,
but we just, you know, we mightbe like, I don't know, greasing
the robot wheels or something.
Jeannie Walters (07:36):
We'll we'll have very specific jobs.
Brooke Sellas (07:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (07:40):
Well, speaking of joy, one of the brands that
really stood out for theirsocial campaigns in the last, I
would say probably a couple ofyears, is Duolingo, the language
app that people love.
And um in this story, this is alittle bit older than I usually
do on pulse checks, but thispulse check, I should say, but
(08:04):
this led me down a rabbit hole.
And that's what I wanted totalk to you about.
So this is from the Wall StreetJournal.
It's actually from August, andit's their CMO Today section.
And the headline is Duolingo'sDeparting Social Media Manager
Talks Virality, Anxiety, andMental Health.
And what was fascinating tolearn is that this this woman,
(08:28):
this young woman, um, she is, Ithink, now 26 years old.
So that means that she wasdoing this in a time when, you
know, it was she was very young.
And um her her name is ZariaParvez.
I wanted to make sure I lookthat up.
She's now head of social atDoorDash.
(08:48):
So she left Duolingo, she wentto DoorDash.
The rabbit hole I went down wasfirst of all learning about,
you know, the fact that she waspretty open about this is
intense.
Like these jobs are superintense.
And then when she went toDoorDash, and I was looking at
her LinkedIn profile and some ofthe stuff that she has out
there, she's very honest.
(09:10):
Like the first month, she waskind of like, hey, this is what
we're doing the first month.
I'm trying stuff, I still don'tknow what I'm doing.
And I think there's somethingto learn here because Duolingo
did so many creative things.
We've talked about them on CXPulse Check, I think a few
times.
Brooke Sellas (09:25):
They've been talkworthy.
Jeannie Walters (09:26):
They've been talkworthy.
Brooke Se (09:27):
It's quite a success.
Jeannie Walters (09:28):
Yeah.
And that was, you know, initself worth talking about.
But now she's framing like boththe jobs and also the
transparency, the visibilityaround we don't always know
what's going to work in social.
Brooke Sellas (09:44):
Right.
Jeannie Walters (09:45):
So what what did you did?
You go down the same rabbithole, first of all.
Brooke Sellas (09:49):
I definitely went down a rabbit hole, but I think
it was slightly different.
Or maybe it's the same.
I think we're gonna cometogether on this.
But my thought was, gosh, youknow, we talk about customer
care all the time, but we veryseldom talk about creator care.
Jeannie Walters (10:02):
Oh, yeah.
Right.
Brooke Sellas (10:04):
And that's what this is.
We we have to care for thepeople who are making those
connection points on the brandside, the creators, just as much
as we care for the customers,because the ultimate goal is
connection.
And we're hopefully taking careof our customers like crazy to
help get to that connection.
But I think in a lot of ways,we miss the inside.
(10:25):
We miss taking care of or thatcreator care to make sure that
both sides are feelingcomfortable and safe and
vulnerable and willing to makethose connections that we need
to happen.
Jeannie Walters (10:36):
Well, and it brings me to kind of another
side door here because one ofthe things I've talked about is
this idea that as AI andchatbots and things start
serving people, we're going tohave more demand.
And I was just on a leadershipcall last week, and one of the
things that we talked about washow their contact center was
(11:00):
not, I mean, think of thesenumbers.
This is a huge global brand.
They were deflecting 60% ofwhat was coming into the contact
center to automated methods,meaning you either got a chatbot
or you got an uh voice, you gotvoice recognition and um a
voice respondent as well, but itwas all automated.
(11:22):
So, what that meant was allthose like standard questions
FAQs and things like that.
Yeah, they were all beinghandled.
So then what was left was alllike tier two, tier three
concerns, and they were findingthat they could not find the
right kind of mix of skills forwho they used to hire.
(11:45):
So now they're doing thingslike looking at people with
engineering degrees, people withaccounting degrees, people with
MBAs to serve in the contactcenter, because that's the level
that we're getting to now.
Brooke Sellas (12:02):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (12:03):
And every time we talk about this, I always
want to say we cannot forgetwhat that does to somebody.
When you're dealing with thegnarliest, like right, like the
hardest things to solve, themost emotional, because by the
time they get to tier two andtier three, people are already
frustrated, yeah, feelinghopeless, maybe there's
something really urgent.
(12:23):
So if we're if you're doingthat type of work all day, that
is not sustainable for anybody.
So I think we have to thinkabout this both as creator care
and also the the support peoplecare.
Like what are we doing?
Brooke Sellas (12:39):
Yes, yes.
I was just watching um oh mygosh, what's the movie about
Tinder that just came out?
Swipe, swipe something.
Jeannie Walters (12:50):
Oh, I haven't watched it yet, but now I want
to.
Brooke Sellas (12:52):
You've got to go watch it, it's really good.
Um, but also to your point,this is what I think we uh have
failed to do as a society,really, and that is to take care
of the the support people.
They are your front line, theyknow your customers inside and
out, and yet they're usually theleast educated, least paid
(13:14):
people on the team.
But they hold the key toliterally all of the voice of
customer data that we're so, youknow, we all want to want it
all.
Right.
We want it all, we're obsessed,we want it all.
They have all of that, and yetwe're going and spending
bajillions of dollars on toolsthat'll maybe help us get there
when you could just probably goask your frontline,
Jeannie Walters (13:33):
Yeah
Brooke Sellas (13:33):
Your support group, and they would know.
Jeannie Walters (13:37):
It's so true, yeah.
And I think the the whole ideaof to your point, like creator
care is really important too.
I've found, I mean, I run, youknow, a teeny company, but we do
a lot of content, and that'salways been my MO.
Like I've always just that'show I started this company.
I just started writing.
Brooke Sellas (13:58):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (13:59):
And now there's so much demand, and there's so
much, there are so many placesof both output for us and input
that we have to manage.
Brooke Sellas (14:09):
Yes.
Jeannie Walters (14:10):
That there are times I'm like, I have to call a
timeout and be like, I cannot,I'm not in the right frame of
mind, right?
Like I can't do it all thetime.
And so I think figuring outkind of how can we allow people,
because everybody's differentwith this too.
So how can we allow people tosay, I need a timeout, I need, I
(14:30):
need to step away, I need toget some inspiration somewhere,
you know, like all of thosethings that are so important.
Because when she talked aboutwhen this um, you know, the head
of social at formerly Duolingo,in this article, she talks
about like it was intensepartially because there's also
(14:51):
this internal stuff.
You know, you have to you haveto report your numbers, you have
to talk to people and who mightnot understand that this is an
experiment, that noteverything's going to work.
Brooke Sellas (15:03):
Yes.
Yeah, I think we hear that allthe time from our clients
working in social, is likeeverything is expected to be a
huge win.
Jeannie Walters (15:10):
Yeah.
Brooke Sellas (15:10):
And we're like, no, no.
Yeah.
This is a this is this is atotal playground.
This is a total experiment.
This is an A B test.
This is a beta test, whateverit is.
I think we put so much pressureon creators and teams,
especially content teams, tolike see these giant wins.
Like, think about the way youbuild relationships and you
connect with people in reallife.
(15:31):
It's never just like a giantwin.
I don't meet you and I'm like,you're my new best friend, come
over, you know.
Jeannie Walters (15:38):
You know, I like to think so, but yeah.
Brooke Sellas (15:41):
Well, maybe you have that natural ability.
But I think most of us, it's itcomes in little like fits and
starts, right?
It's it's not we have to lookat the whole board.
I think we've we need to pullback a little bit and look at
the whole board versus focusingin on like this one piece of
content is gotta make it forwhatever the KPI is, you know.
Jeannie Walters (16:01):
Right.
Whatever the KPI is.
Brooke Sellas (16:04):
Yeah, because who knows?
Jeannie Walters (16:05):
That's definitely the quote of the
episode.
Um so I well, I will bewatching Zaria Parvez because I
think it's fascinating.
I hope I'm saying her nameright too, but uh I think it's
going to be fascinating to seeif she's able to make that same
magic at DoorDash because thestakes are so high, the
pressure's so high, and it's adifferent thing.
(16:28):
Like people don't interact inthe same way as they do with a
Duolingo, but just thecreativity that she showed that
and and the fact that she didearn the trust of the leaders
who said, Yeah, you can have theicon melt, right?
Like they did that, they didall those crazy lights, like in
(16:48):
New York and stuff.
So being able to take thoserisks and see what works and see
if that lines up with thenumbers that those KPIs that
everybody cares about, yeah.
Whatever they are.
Brooke Sellas (17:00):
Quick point though that you're making here
that I don't know if you knowyou're making it or not, but
like risk is going to be soimportant because we are living
in a time of AI and everythinghas become content is now like a
commodity, right?
Anybody can create it using AI.
Doesn't mean it's good content,and so I think taking those
risks with creativity is goingto be so important in the time
(17:24):
of AI where everything is likekind of the sea of sameness.
Jeannie Walters (17:27):
Yes, yes.
That's a great point that youjust made.
No, you were making it.
Well, it's it's an interestingsegue because this last one,
it's a little outside of thecontent space and it's more
about you know, everything isdata driven, right?
We hear that all the time.
All these data-drivendecisions.
(17:47):
So Salesforce, which is thisenormous company that has a
zillion and a half customers andcustomers upon customers, they
uh made a change because theysaw something that uh they
didn't think people were usinganymore.
And it was a search bar ontheir site.
And so they said, Oh, well,we're gonna replace that because
(18:10):
now we have all these otheroptions, people can find things
different ways.
And it didn't go exactly asthey planned.
So this is from CX Today, andthe headline is Salesforce
Responds to User Backlash overreplacing help search with Agent
Force.
Now, Agent Force, for those ofyou who don't know, is their AI
(18:32):
kind of functionality that helpswith that.
So what happened was they theylooked at their data, and their
data said something like only1.6, I don't know the exact
number right now, but they were,you know, a very low amount of
people were still using thesearch bar.
So they just took it away.
Unceremoniously, they just tookit away.
(18:54):
And what happened in all theiruser forums, their feedback, all
of it, there was a verypassionate vocal group who loved
the search bar.
So they literally had tobackpedal and rethink it a
little bit because if we hadjust gone with numbers, it seems
like such a logical thing todo.
(19:15):
But when they did the logicalthing, the vocal, passionate
group showed up.
And I think this goes back tothe points that we've been
making this whole episode, whichis like it all comes back to
emotion, it all comes back tohumans and like understanding
that they're not always going togo in lockstep with what the
data says and all of thosethings.
(19:36):
So, what did you think aboutthis?
Because I'm sure you seesimilar things on the side.
Brooke Sellas (19:42):
Yeah, it was 1.7%, which feels small.
But when they but that'sactually a large group of people
when you think about theircustomer base, right?
Um, to me, the message, the theentire message was internal
data doesn't equal externalsentiment.
Yep.
(20:02):
You really have to talk to yourcustomers.
Like I'm sure you say this allthe time to your clients.
Like, when's the last time youactually spoke with a customer?
Did anybody on the Salesforceteam think to call that small,
small, small, small group of1.7% and just say, hey, we're
(20:22):
gonna talk to 50 people who useit and we're gonna say, usage is
low.
We're trying to, we're we'rethinking about dismantling this
service.
Imagine them them doing thatand perhaps getting all 50
people to say passionately asthey did, like bashing the
company when it actuallyhappened, just to say
passionally, do not remove it.
I love it.
This is how I this is how I useit, right?
(20:45):
And then could you turn thatuser-generated content into
education so that more of youruser base started to use the
function or the feature?
Jeannie Walters (20:52):
Oh, that's interesting too.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and it it does have to bea cycle, right?
Like we have to provide thecontent and then listen to that
feedback and then come back withmore content, look at your data
and your feedback to create,you know, the next thing.
But I just thought it wasreally interesting that first of
(21:15):
all, I give them credit.
I give Salesforce creditbecause they did actually come
back and they said, We heardyou.
And in fact, there's a greatquote.
I'm gonna read it here.
You've made clear that evenwith low usage, the search bar
is a critical tool for many ofyou, and that removing it
created friction in yourworkflow.
We hear you because of yourfeedback we are committing to
(21:36):
bringing back a dedicated searchcapability to Salesforce help.
This is a top priority.
And what I loved about this wasthey basically said not only
did we hear you, because a lotof a lot of statements say that
they go, Oh, yeah, we heard you,and then they don't change
anything.
Brooke Sellas (21:51):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (21:52):
Um, they they also kind of couch the promise a
little bit because it doesn'tsay we're bringing back the
search bar exactly as it was.
Brooke Sellas (21:59):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (21:59):
Right?
They're saying we're going tohave this dedicated search
capability.
So you know, we have to evolve.
We can't have the sametechnology all the time.
But I like the way that theybasically said, okay, even
though you're small, there aremany of you, and we heard you,
and we are going to do somethingabout it.
(22:20):
And I think that is a lessonfor a lot of organizations who
sometimes will, again,unceremoniously just be like,
Well, we're not doing thisanymore.
And they think, well, that's asmall group.
We don't have to listen tothem, we don't have to do that.
Even a small group can have abig voice.
Brooke Sellas (22:37):
Oh, yes.
Yeah, I think there's a therethere too about metrics versus
voice of customer metrics,right?
They were looking at some sortof internal dashboard of
metrics, but I don't think theywere including that voice of
customer data mix into that,which is where the miss was.
But to your point, they notonly said I hear you, but they
said we're going to do somethingabout it.
(22:58):
We're going to take action now.
Now we have to watch and makesure they do that.
Jeannie Walters (23:02):
That's right.
Eyes on you, Salesforce.
But, you know, going back towhat you just said too about the
metrics, we always we love tosay this, but it's like there is
no one magic metric.
Brooke Sellas (23:17):
I wish.
Jeannie Walters (23:17):
When you are talking about customers, you
have to look at yes, feedbackand voice of the customer, and
operational metrics like this,like usage.
That's very important.
Brooke Sellas (23:27):
Sure.
Jeannie Walters (23:28):
And things like behavioral analytics and what
else are they doing?
And it's putting all of thattogether and understanding the
nuance of that because a lot oftimes people will say one thing
and behave totally differentlytoo.
Brooke Sellas (23:42):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (23:42):
So they might say, Yeah, we don't need the
search bar, but then if youlook, yeah, a lot of people are
still using it.
So it's really important tokind of create that.
I always think of it as a Venndiagram of, you know, what
building blocks do you have andwhat's in the middle that you
can really rely on for this ishow people actually feel and
this is how they're behaving,and this is how we need to
react.
(24:03):
So yeah, I totally agree withyou on that.
Brooke Sellas (24:05):
I love that you said nuance too, because I
would, if it were my project, Iwould want to talk to these
people and find out how they'reusing it.
Right.
It reminds me of IKEA.
IKEA has that whole likesecondary site that's run by
IKEA users who talk about howthey build things from these
products, but they're not in thetradition, but not in the
(24:26):
traditional way.
They build like some otherthing or do some other thing
with it.
That could be what's happeningwith the search bar.
Maybe they're not using ittraditionally, but if everybody
knew that they were using it inthis cool, nuanced way, more
people would adopt it.
I don't know.
To me, it just sounds like afun area to dig into.
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (24:43):
Well, and you know they're power users, right?
You know they're they're peoplewho are you don't get
passionate about a search barunless it is part of your daily
workflow.
Brooke Sellas (24:53):
They're a there there.
Jeannie Walters (24:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I I agree.
Like finding out what they'reusing it for, what they would
look for in the next iteration,like bring them in, co-create
with this group.
Brooke Sellas (25:06):
Yes.
I love that you went to theco-creation and the
collaboration piece because Ithink, yeah, like to my point
earlier, like creating some sortof UGC or user-generated
content campaign around whatthese people are doing, because
it's got to be good, whatever itis.
That's what that's my feeling,too.
Jeannie Walters (25:19):
I agree.
I agree.
And you mentioned Ikea, itreminds me of Lego too, who they
do a lot, and they didn't usedto do that, but they discovered
all these adult enthusiasts andthey started nurturing that
community just by asking them,like, what are you doing?
Brooke Sellas (25:36):
Yeah.
Jeannie Walters (25:37):
And what would you want to see?
And that's why the Lego setsyou see sometimes are so
complicated and complex becauseadults were like, We want more,
we want like lifelong Legoenthusiasts.
Brooke Sellas (25:49):
Yes, yes.
Jeannie Walters (25:50):
Which 20 years ago they would have said it's
you know for
Brooke Sellas (25:53):
it's for kids, yeah.
Jeannie Walters (25:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Brooke Sellas (25:54):
But imagine it, imagine that revenue stream.
Jeannie Walters (25:57):
Oh. Right?
Brooke Sellas (25:57):
Imagine that revenue stream from that
specific, you know, idealcustomer profile within Lego,
that adult, yeah, you know,hobbyist or whatever you call
it.
Like, I can only imagine howmuch money they bring in there.
All because they listened
Jeannie Walters (26:11):
completely
and then gave the customerswhat they were asking for.
Right.
Right?
Brooke Sellas (26:17):
No one was like, it's not that hard.
Jeannie Walters (26:21):
But it is, it is hard.
I acknowledge that too.
So, well, this was so much fun.
I knew it would be, and you dosuch great work, and I hope that
people follow you on LinkedInand some other places because
you also, you know, speaking ofcontent, uh, you provide a lot
of great content as well.
So
Brooke Sellas (26:38):
Thank you.
Jeannie Walters (26:39):
If people want to reach out or connect with you
or just learn more about whatyou do, what are the best ways
for them to do that?
Brooke Sellas (26:44):
I'm always hanging out on LinkedIn.
So if you're a LinkedIn person,come find me there, connect.
Tell me, tell me you found mehere, and we can talk about all
kinds of things.
Um, I also put out a lot ofcontent.
And if you want to find outmore about B Squared Media, you
could head over to our website,which is bsquared.media.
Jeannie Walters (27:03):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Thank you so much, Brooke.
It was so much fun.
Brooke Se (27:07):
Thanks for having me.
Jeannie Walters (27:07):
And we'll have to do this again.
Brooke Sellas (27:09):
Yes, please.
Jeannie Walters (27:11):
Well, thank you, and thank you for both
watching and listening toExperience Action week after
week.
Now, when I'm not hosting a CXPulse Check episode, I'm
answering your questions.
So don't forget, you can leaveme a voicemail at askjeannie.vip
And I will answer your questionabout customer experience.
(27:32):
I can't wait to see you againnext time.
Thanks for being here.
Bye-bye.
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