Elevating Lives Through Fitness: Mark Roberts' Journey to Building Community and Wellness in the Gym (Part 2)

Episode Transcript
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Parker Condit (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome to Exploring Health
Macro to Micro.
I'm your host, Parker Condit.
This is part two of the episodewith Mark Roberts.
This picks up right in themiddle of the conversation, so
if you haven't already, pleasego back and listen to part one,
which includes the fullintroduction and background for
Mark.
So, without further delay,please enjoy part two of my
conversation with Mark Roberts.

(00:21):
Do you do anything where you'retrying to teach people that
introspective?
That introspection?
I guess it goes into themindfulness where, like they're,
they're going to be a betterparticipant in that interaction
of understanding when they don'tfeel great and when they do
feel great.

Mark Roberts (00:42):
Yeah, I, a lot of it is introspection, a lot of it
is being present.
Um, phones are in phones in thegym, one of those big debates
should you have your phone inthe gym?
Should you not have the phonein the gym?
Um, when I, when I train, it'sunfortunately as a gym owner

(01:02):
it's pretty difficult to be awayfrom your phone for two hours
or whatever.
But the best training sessionsare the ones where I can leave
my phone alone and I can staypresent and focus on what I'm
trying to achieve.
And a lot of people these daysare don't do that.
They don't I call it a bodycheck-in.
I say I check in with my bodyevery morning after years of of

(01:25):
injuries and rehabbing andthings like that.
If I don't check, I call it abody check-in.
I say I check in with my bodyevery morning after years of
injuries and rehabbing andthings like that.
If I don't check in with mybody in the morning or after a
training session, that'snormally where things start to
go downhill.
So the biggest one is justremaining present, teaching
people that they need to create.
It goes back to I'm theco-pilot.

(01:45):
I need to give you the tools,but you need to be the one that
wields them, and so do you checkin with your body.
Have you actually woken up anddone anything to see?
Do you feel good, do you feelsluggish?
And that's a that's a skillwithin itself and that's that's
something that you can sharpenover time of knowing when it is
there and knowing when it isn'tthere, and there's a big, big

(02:08):
disconnect with a lot of peoplebetween their ability to
mentally recognize what'sphysically going on, and so
that's something that weconstantly.
It's a constant conversationwith people to make sure that
they're not disconnecting,getting on their phone and
instagram between reps,especially in such a technical

(02:30):
sport like weightlifting.
I know, when you're just growingout and you're you're
bodybuilding, you're weighttraining, and it might not be as
crucial, but weightlifting is askill-based strength sport is
how I always describe it topeople because, just like you
play basketball and you haveyour on-court training and then
you go to the gym and you doyour strength and conditioning.

(02:50):
The reason I love coachingweightlifting is because that's
the same thing your, your, youron-court training is your snatch
and your clean and jerk and itsvariations.
Your strength and conditioningis the squats, the presses, the
core work and all of the otherthings.
So, as a strength coach, I loveit because I get to do the
skill and I get to teach thestrength and conditioning, so I

(03:11):
get to pair both things, which Ilove about sports.
And so there's just no, therereally is no other, there's no
other way of being a goodweightlifter.
You have to be present, you haveto understand what your body's
feeling if it's there, if it'snot there, and like gaining
proprioception and understandingwhat position your body's in,

(03:34):
and that's that's a skill thatcomes with time.
But the more present you are,the faster you'll develop that
skill.
The more disconnected you arefrom how your body feels.
And you know, oh yeah, myshoulder is hurting today.
Didn't you figure that outeight hours ago when you woke up
and you moved around?
Oh no, I haven't actually movedwith any intense yet today.
Well, that's possibly one ofthe reasons why your body is in

(03:58):
pain is because you don't movewith intent.
You're stuck up here.

Instead of having that that mind body connection
do you do anything in yourclasses with like breath work,
maybe in the beginning of theclass or maybe to cool down,
just where people can sit withthemselves, probably in some
level of silence, just to kindof feel, be like you know,
because when you do that you'relike, oh, I can feel my heart

(04:23):
beating, I can feel myselfslowing down my respiratory rate
, you can feel where muscles aresore.
You can.
If you're sitting on the ground, you can feel sort of your,
your, um, your sit bones, likedriving into the ground.
You can feel, if they're uneven, um.
Do you do anything like that inyour classes?

um, so I don't really teach the classes, so so
it's not I do.
In the weightlifting side ofthings, yes, we try and promote
it gym wide.
Uh, our classes definitely are.
Um, when we're teaching ourclasses, we're teaching our
classes, and then what we tryand do is we try and take our
clients away, taking from adifferent time, and teach them

(05:02):
these things where it's not in anecessarily like a time based
manner, because it's one ofthose things that I think is
does take more time to learn,but it is, it is a hundred
percent part of the conversationthat when, when I'm stretching
and I'm talking to people aboutbreathing and I'm talking to
them about sympathetic versusparasympathetic nervous systems
and being able to modulate froma fight or flight to a rest and

(05:25):
digest, so it could be 1990 kindof pri breathing at the end of
a session.
It could be breathing at thebeginning of a session to get
them in the right mindset fortraining.
I talk about it in terms ofself myofascial release that if
you've got a, really if you gota lacrosse ball stuck into your
terrors major, terrors minor andyou want to scream that, if you

(05:49):
, if you breathe and you takeyour time and every time you
breathe out, you focus on that,that lacrosse ball sinking into
the muscle more that you canactually.
And I always laugh because somepeople say this is like not
voodoo, but like like this isall hoo-ha.
I'm like, no like.
If you actually stay there on alacrosse ball in tons of pain

(06:10):
and breathe, you will feel themuscle relax.
It's ART, that's.
That's what active releasetechniques are.
At the end of the day, it'swhat acupressure is.
It's it's.
It's a.
It's a form of acupuncture, butthe surface level it's.
It's.
It's a.
It's a form of acupuncture, butthe surface level it's.
We have all of these othermodalities, but when we talk
about it in terms of breath work, people don't see it the same

(06:31):
thing because it's not aclinician, it's a coach.
It's back to that wholeclinician versus coach thing and
um, but it is a huge part of it.

It's a huge part of recovery is breathing and
just being present with yourbody, like you say so I I want
to go to sympatheticparasympathetic only around the
regards of olympic weightlifting, because I'd never thought of
it like this.
Sympathetic is fight or flight,parasympathetic is like rest
and digest, but that's from likea nervous system standpoint.

(07:01):
Your mind is not going to be asclear in a sympathetic state,
right, like if you're runningfor your life.
You're probably not.
You're probably you're going tobe very focused on just the
singular task, but you kind ofblock out everything else.
So maybe I'm answering my ownquestion.
But like, where do you wantyour athletes to be when they're
on the platform?

(07:22):
Right, because you don't wantthem freaking out, where you're
just totally overdriven withparasympathetic drive.
But you can't have themparasympathetic where they're,
like you know, yawning on theplatform.
So how do you try to teach that?
And also, where do you wantthem to be on that spectrum?

Yeah, you're not going to hit peak power output
when you're yawning, but you'realso not going to have the skill
and the precision that you needin weightlifting if you are
erratic because you're in thatfight or flight, adrenaline
fueled position.
And I found that everyone'sslightly different in this one.
Some people need to tone itdown because just the
environment of a competitionwill take them way too high.

(08:05):
Other people feel verycomfortable in competitions and
actually will be too relaxed.
So this is very an athletedependent thing and there's a
there's very much like we talkabout the inverted U theory of
arousal when it comes toperformance, and too much
arousal normally decreasesperformance, performance and too

(08:27):
much arousal normally decreasesperformance.
But I you do need that fight orflight, you do need that
adrenaline, you do need yournervous system to be firing very
fast for weight lifting, and soone of the breathing drills are
a huge part of it.
Being able to learn how tocontrol your heart rate when you
are in those environments isextremely important.
So breathing is 100 one of theways in which we do that,
because when you're breathingit's the.
It's one of the ways in whichwe can take something that is um

(08:51):
autonomic.
It's part of the autonomicnervous system.
Breathing we can.
We do it naturally.
And then it's also part of thatsomatic where we can take
control when we want to and useit.
And breath work obviously is avery powerful way to modulate
your nervous system.
So we do teach a lot of thatfor our athletes as they go in
and everyone kind of has to playwith it.
We as weightlifters, whenyou're beginning, we try and get

(09:15):
our weightlifters to competequite often.
So beginner weightlifter, wewant them to compete four, five,
maybe even six times a year.
Doesn't mean we're going topeak for a weightlifting
competition, but it just meansthat we're going to have
multiple exposures to thatsituation where they're going to
learn.
How is my body going to adapt?
Am I going to freak out?

(09:35):
And like one of my athletes whohas always kind of struggled
with this, one of the things Itold her the other day in our
last competition I said when youget out there on the platform I
said you've already got a total, you've already hit snatch,
you've already hit clean andjerk.
This really doesn't matter.
This last lift is for you, butwhat I want you to do as you
stand there by the barbell is Iwant you to just look around,

(09:58):
look at everybody, take a deepbreath and realize that it's
kind of like it's just a bunchof people.
Right, there is, there is.
No, you're not.
You're not in trouble, you'renot fighting for your life.
Your body's telling you you are, but you're not.
And I, a lot of the time, I tellpeople it's just a, it's just a
metal stick with some circleson the end, like it's, it's not

(10:18):
a big deal.
We make it a big deal, and so Itry and again goes back to
being present and there's otherways to like.
I have a mantra.
I have a mantra that when I geton the platform, I repeat to
myself and it centers me and itbrings me back.
So my awareness is to what I'mtrying to do and what I'm trying
to achieve.
I think that's a big part of itis having that.

(10:39):
So I repeat that mantra tomyself.
I go in with a mindset I havethree words actually that when I
compete, I tell myself thatwhat I want people to do is, if
they see me compete, I want themto say, wow, this guy really
emulates these three things andI can really see them when he

(11:03):
competes things, and I canreally see them when he competes
and so it kind of centers me inmy behavior to the way that I
want to portray myself when Icompete as well.
So it's a lot of a lot ofmindfulness, right, a lot of
being present, staying mindful,centering myself and then
controlling that breathing aswell, and it's definitely not
something that you're like ohyeah, you'll have it like that.

(11:23):
And I have athletes that fiveyears in, still they get on
platform.
They weren't athletes when theywere younger, so they haven't
had as much experience being incompetitive environments.
And it does take a while,especially with adults who
haven't been exposed.
If you have as a kid, it's alot easier to transfer that
skill, jamie.

(11:43):
For example, if you can do aback, it's a lot easier to
transfer that skill, jamie.
For example, if you can do aback flip on an, on a balance
beam, you can probably go out ona platform and weight lift, uh.
But if, if you've never donethat it's, it's going to be
extremely difficult.
Or I came from team sports andso I played something I well, I
did play like I played badminton, so I had some individual

(12:03):
sports experience, but stillstepping on a platform in a
leotard and lifting three andonly having three attempts at
each lift the, the pressure is alot higher and so everyone's
different, but there are therecertainly is tactics and what
you can use, like you say,breathing and staying present.

That can help all of that yeah, it's a skill like
anything else, right?
Um, I do want to highlight theimportance of breathing because
any opportunity I can get, I tryto um you, like you mentioned
it, where you can use yourbreath to control your states,
which is unlike, almost like,unlike any other physiologic, uh
like, process within us, likeyou can't.

(12:43):
I mean, maybe, if you're like amonk, you can control your
heart rate in a really powerfuland direct way, but most people,
you can just you can use yourbreath work, and it is one of
those things that does run inthe background, which is super
convenient.
I always give the example ofdolphins.
Right, dolphins don't have that.
It's entirely a voluntaryprocess, so dolphins can't
really ever sleep.
They turn off.

(13:03):
The half of their brain sleeps,so the other half can keep them
awake and alert and keep thembreathing, and then the other
half has to sleep, but theyalways have to be awake to some
extent.
Can you imagine how annoyingthat would be as humans?
Yeah, so it's awesome that wedon't have to think about
breathing while we sleep.
We can just sleep.
But I think a lot of people justrely on that too heavily and
they don't take advantage of thefact that it's like oh, this is

(13:26):
something we can control too,and we can hold our breath, we
all know, and plus, and thatgets at a certain point, but
then we can control how long weinhale, we can control how long
we exhale, and once you startlooking into those things, you
can really start to manipulateand control your state in a more
powerful way, where you're notjust along for the ride but you
can actually drive changes fromone state to the other.

(13:46):
So I highly encourage anyonelistening to who wants to learn
more about it to just startlooking into breathwork.
Do you have any resources thatyou point people towards when it
comes to breathwork?

I use some apps.
Actually, I've used I use oak.
There's an oak app which ispretty good Calm if you've heard
of Calm, that's a pretty goodapp.
So there's a lot of apps outthere that will definitely give
you some good baseline.
I mean, wim Hof is a fun one totry out as well once you get a
little bit deeper into it.
Warriors um, that's a reallygood book if you want to dive

(14:27):
deep into breathing and thattalks a little bit more about,
um, people who are actually kindof like bound up in in their
core muscles so their abs mightactually be super tight, which
which causes them to struggle totake deep breaths.
Um, but there's if I meanthere's plenty of resources out
there.
Yeah, I would try those.
Oak and karma definitely too.
That I'd recommend.

Okay, cool, we'll definitely link to those.
But just for a quick reference,generally, if you're trying to
relax or downregulate, you wantto extend your exhales, you want
your exhales to be longer thanyour inhales and you want to
take fewer breaths per minute.
And then the opposite is goingto be true.
If you're trying to upregulateyourself, you want a faster
respiratory rate, so more breathper minute, and you want to be

(15:07):
kind of doing kind of fasterinhales and you don't want to be
extending your exhales.
So just a quick and dirtyreference for people who don't
want to do any of that researchyet.
So, when it comes to dailymovement, why do you make the
differentiation?
I have my own thoughts on thisbecause I love walking why do
you make the differentiationthat daily movement is not just

(15:29):
exercise?

One of the biggest differentiators, I would say,
is the intensity level.
When we train, pretty much mostof the time, unless you're on a
pretty rigid training program,you're going in to have an
intense level of exercise for acertain amount of time.
I'd say that kind of goes backto the idea about hits and when

(15:54):
it came out that hits they'relike you can get all of this
benefit in such a shorter amountof time than the low intensity,
steady states et cetera.
So I do think that's true.
Just to clarify that you need alevel of intensity that at the
end of the day, if you don'tpush certain body structures to
their limits, they will regressto uh where, where you leave

(16:19):
them.
So if you, if you don't takeyour heart rate up, uh near
maximal twice a week, thenunfortunately the top end it's
like anything if you don'tpractice that top end, you're
not going to keep it.
It's kind of like that use itor lose it.
Analogy If you don't try andpush your muscles to some level
of maximum, whether that's a onerep max or 15 rep max or kind

(16:44):
of like a rep max of another way, you're going to start
regressing in some way.
We see it in sarcopenia inadults and all sorts like that.
But when we talk about recoverywith our athletes and this
actually speaks more to thedaily movement kind of thing is
you've got to remember that ourbody is.
I try and explain it.

(17:05):
It's, it's chemical, it'smechanical, um, and so there's
all these different componentsin it that we need to make sure
that are running smoothly.
I think the car analogy isprobably the most used analogy
for a body.
And if you, you wouldn't justkeep your car in the garage and
then open it up, rag it for 10miles and then just put the

(17:27):
pedal to the metal and then putit back in the garage and cover
it up again and then leave it,that's not beneficial for the
car.
You need to have some level ofkeeping it moving.
So for me I kind of tell peoplefrom the mechanical perspective
is blood flow is huge.
We, the body, has so muchplumbing in it that if you don't

(17:50):
keep that plumbing going, ifyou don't, if you don't make
sure that you're using all the,all the plumbing in your house,
what's going to happen?
Gunk's going to build up,you're going to get stagnant
water and all, and stagnantwater is where disease festers.
And and these are all greatanalogies for the body, that if
you don't have perfusion ofblood through muscles, uh, if

(18:13):
you don't have synovial fluidand joints because you're not
using them, then um the thecascade of of unfortunate events
after that is not pleasant, andwe see it a lot with people who
are sedentary.
So the biggest differentiatorfor me is making sure that
people are really pushingthemselves and keeping that top

(18:35):
end, but then also doing thedaily maintenance, and the daily
maintenance is what allows youto keep pushing too.
It's not one or the other, it'sdefinitely a both.

Yeah, I think describing the levels of
intensity is very helpful forpeople.
Um, and basically from arecovery standpoint, right,
oxygen is so important.
Um, basically oxygen just helpsfix everything in the body and
it kind of runs everything inthe body.
So oxygen gets bound to kind ofblood through something in the
lungs.
So oxygen gets bound to kind ofblood through something in the
lungs and then the heart pushesthat oxygenated blood around the

(19:09):
body.
So if you think about whenyou're sleeping, it's basically
your lowest threshold activity,so you're not pushing a lot of
kind of blood around the body.
But then the next level upwould be like sitting, like what
I'm doing right now, what we'redoing right now sitting I'm
using a little bit more oxygen,the demand's a little bit higher
, my heart rate is a little bithigher, I'm pushing a little bit
more blood through the body.

(19:29):
Then standing would be a bitmore, walking would be a bit
more, walking uphill would be abit more.
So each level of activity isalso going to be kind of
determined by the fitness of theindividual as well.
So that's why, you know,working with the coach is so
important, because they candictate what those levels are
going to be.
But to give an example on oneextreme is like the marathon

(19:52):
runners who are doing like subtwo 30 marathons.
You know they're running likefour, four and a half five
minute miles.
So you know them going out andrunning a seven minute mile is I
don't even know if it wouldcount as recovery for them or I
don't even know if it wouldcount as a zone two cardio day
for them.
It might even be too slow, buta seven minute mile for most

(20:15):
people would crush them.
You could probably do a quarterof them or a half a mile at
that pace.
So understanding like intensityis very individually specific.
Do you have recommendations forpeople around how much they
should be walking or a generalsense?

I go with the general literature, which is
like 8,000 steps a day, right.
So I know most people say10,000.
I think I actually learned thisfrom you, that that was.
That was a number that was putout there.
But the literature actuallyreally said it was around 8,000
that was needed versus 10,000.
But I try and tell people that8,000 steps a day, however you

(20:55):
get it, is a great, is a greatstart.
I'm a big habit stacking guy, sonot just doing something for
doing something sake, but tryingto maximize the benefits of
everything.
So, whether it's to me, Istretch before bed and I foam
roll before bed, reason being isstretching and foam rolling
helps me get into thatparasympathetic nervous system

(21:18):
so that rest and digest, whichthen will impact the quality of
my sleep, and so I'm not justtrying to do something for do
something's sake.
When I get up in the morning Itake our dog for a walk, so I
get a good amount of steps inthen.
Not only that, but that's whereI get my daily sunlight in.
I'm outside for a while there,so that sunlight in the morning
helps my circadian rhythm and somy daily movement is very much

(21:43):
built around the recovery numberone, like you say so.
Obviously, weightlifting is verylower body heavy.
Nothing is going to help thehips and the legs recover like
some low intensity walking,something like that.
And then my other dailymovement is built around making
sure that I'm flexible and sobefore bed I'm getting that rest
and digest.

(22:03):
So I try and tell people thatthe walking is fantastic.
Walking, get outside.
If you're not getting outsidefor at least 30 minutes a day,
that's life-changing, honestly.
Get outside for 30 minutes aday and then you should be doing
10, 15 minutes of stretchinglight stretching to moderate
intense if you have a reason towith some foam rolling and some

(22:26):
other things as well which canreally impact either your
movement throughout the day.
If you, if you get up andstretch or go for a walk and
stretch in the morning, you'llfeel so much better throughout
the day and then again at nightit will impact your sleep.
So if you're someone thatstruggles to fall asleep, if you
stretch, foam roll, breathe andthen go to bed, that those,

(22:47):
those four things as a habitstack is killer for anybody that
struggles to sleep at nightyeah, it's a great
recommendation.

Um, yeah, I think the 10 000 steps a day thing I
forget when it came out, but Iknow it came from a Japanese
pedometer maker, so it was amarketing thing, not a research
thing.
Say like you know, you shouldwalk 10,000 steps a day and also
buy my step counter.
But yeah, 8,000 steps a day hasa lot of research around it.

(23:15):
From an all cause mortalitystandpoint, it's slightly above
the 7,500 steps a day which isin reference to lower incidence
of depression in women.
I think 8,000 is also thethreshold for being the minimum
to maintain weight generally.
So there's there's just a lotof thresholds right around 8,000

(23:36):
that are a good minimum toadhere to.
And then the other thing Ialways say about step count is
like it's a nonlinear doseresponse no-transcript.

It really depends, too, on what you, what your
job's like to.
If you have a, a pre manual,manually intensive job, then
then your, your need for this isa lot lower than somebody that
is working from home.
And I think, after covid andeveryone, the the rise of people
walking, walking, working fromhome, um has had a huge impact

(24:38):
on some of the issues that wesee in people's health these
days and and for a lot of people, their daily movement should
correspond to the other thingsthat they have in their day as
well.
If you're already going to bewalking a lot in your day, or,
um, I was I knew I was going tobe on this podcast, so I was.

(24:59):
I'd been paying a little bitmore attention to my daily
movement, uh, uh, in a, in a6,000 square foot gym, I'll
sometimes cover five and a halfto six miles a day, uh, which is
pretty crazy when you thinkabout the space we're in versus
the amount of steps that we'retaking, um and I.
A mile of that is our walk inthe morning with the dog.
So, um, walking around four tofour and a half miles a day

(25:21):
inside a gym is do I?
Do I need to go outside and geta walk in?
Probably not, but I do anywayfor that daily sunlight and that
other thing.
So, depending on what you'redoing throughout the day,
depending on what your job is,would dictate to me what, what
you need to be adding, um, andespecially people that uh want
to lose weight, gain weight oror whatever it might be, might

(25:44):
be Looking at your dailymovement, your non-exercise
activity time, we call it, whereyou're not intensely exercising
or specified exercise is, moreoften than not, I find, the
factor that plays the biggestrole in success in manipulating
body weight as well.

Yep, yeah, walking is incredibly important
for for that reason.
Um, I, yeah, I want to.
I had another question but it'suh, escaped me right now, so
hopefully I'm going to come backto it.
Um, do you can you kind ofdescribe how you, how the class
is, how the classes arestructured, because I know a lot
of people it can be enticing tokind of chase performance, but

(26:27):
a lot of people don't have thatfoundation.
So do you kind of structure ahierarchy of from like the
fitness side of things that sortof forces them to kind of go
through these levels and notimmediately chase performance?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.
So that movement session wetalked about earlier, although
we say it's not a movementassessment on the athlete's part
, it's a movement education part.
For us it's giving us anindication of where somebody
needs to start.
There are weak points where weneed to front load more
education, and then what we dofrom there is we always try and

(27:00):
tell people it's a prescriptiveway of doing fitness, not you
just deciding.
So we want to always prescribethe right dose amount for
somebody when they come into thegym, and for some people we
have rehabilitation.
So some people might be injuredor just extremely detrained and
we recommend them actuallyworking a little bit more

(27:22):
one-on-one with a coach so thatthey can get to a point where
they can jump into a class andwork in a class-based
environment with a coachwatching them.
And then we have two levels ofclass.
We have our CrossFit class,which is a lot of people that

(27:52):
should not be going straightinto crossfit and can get can
get pretty badly hurt fromoveruse injuries if we don't
take care of them first beforeputting them in a class
environment.
So so we do have what we callour movement classes, which are
more of a strength-based class.
So CrossFit very much is alittle bit more
conditioning-based and strengthis applied to the conditioning,

(28:15):
even though strength issometimes prioritized.
And then our movement class iswhere we teach that foundational
movement.
So we teach squattinginging,lunging, push, pull and carry,
and then we get somebody to dosome conditioning at the end.
So the conditioning is a littlebit less, a little bit lower of
a skill level.
It's not going to be quite asintense as crossfit.

(28:35):
So it's going to help peoplebaselining and get a little bit
more of a bigger foundationbefore they then progress to
something like cross, which isgoing to increase the intensity.
And then from there, that'swhere if you want to really take
CrossFit and this is where Itell people, if you look at the
CrossFit games, it's the sportof fitness, it's not necessarily
CrossFit.

(28:56):
And there's a bigdifferentiator when you talk to
HQ about that is, the sport offitness is very different from
your everyday Crossfit class.
And if you want to do that,then we can scale up.
Or if you want to go from thatmovement class into strength
training, we can go into astrength training route and then
you can even go into sportsperformance weight lifting,

(29:17):
power lifting on top of that.
So we really kind of try andplace people where they want to
be, with also us saying this iswhere you need to be, and then
we create a direct route forthem to actually know that
you're not going to stay hereforever but actually you'll get
to where you want to be fasterif you work on the things that

(29:39):
you need to.
Versus us getting into that topend I see that a lot with
weightlifters to.
Versus us getting into thatthat top end.
I see that a lot with withweightlifters.
Weightlifting, like I saythat's that really really high
level skill.
I mean we have weights overheadin every movement, snatch and
clean and jerk.
And if you don't haveprerequisite core control to be
able to stabilize your spine,then shoulders and hips are just

(30:01):
going to take a battering.
And so if we, if you reallywant to be a great weightlifter,
we also have to take care ofsome of those other things first
before you can really excel atweightlifting.

So that's from kind of a Gen Pop example.
I think this will probablytranslate to youth as well.
Do you work with youth athletesfor weightlifting?

Yeah, our eight athlete is eight years old, and
then we have 10 year old, 12year old, 13 year olds, and then
quite a few 13, 14, 15, um, allthe way through to to masters,
lifters as well over 35, soquite a few youngsters so I want
to hear your opinion on this.

I know your opinion, I just want you to talk
about it.
Uh, you posted something oninstagram a few days ago and I
screenshotted it.
This was a quote from FredDuncan.
I'm not sure who he is, but hesaid in the US, sports skill
outpaces physical developmentdue to early specialization and
lack of physical preparation.
That's why we have youngathletes that run like newborn
giraffes and don't know how toskip.
Let's break that down like.

(31:09):
So can you just start bydescribing, like, what, um,
sports skill is versus physicaldevelopment?
And I think this will relatebecause most of our audience is
between like 35 and 50.
So they're kind of the age oflike, uh, like, yeah, kids that
have that are like getting intothe athletic development phase,
um, so can you start bydescribing what sports skill is

(31:29):
versus physical development?

Yeah, so sports skill would be something that is
specific to the sport you'replaying.
So, for example, it might beswinging a bat in baseball high
velocity pitching Baseball is agreat example, kind of
unfortunately because of earlyspecialization so something that
I would argue creates prettybig imbalances too.

(31:53):
So obviously you throw with onearm and you swing one way with
the bat.
So if I'm going to be playingbaseball four, five, six days a
week and I'm going to berotating to one side over and
over and over again or throwingwith one arm over and over and
over again, that's a very sportsspecific skill, Whereas, like
that GPP, that general physicalpreparation, is going to be

(32:16):
focusing more on some of thosemovement patterns that we all
use.
So I talked about earlier inour movement class that
squatting, hinging, lunging,push, pull, carry.
Those are movement patterns.
But then there's also thingslike proprioception, so working
on hand-eye coordination, bodybalance, making sure that you
have aerobic capacity, stamina,some of those things the things

(32:41):
that underpin the high-levelsports skills.

So those general physical preparation are the
things that actually underpinhow advanced you can become in
those sports specific skillsyeah, so a trend that's been and
, like what this post wasreferencing, there's been a
trend and increase in earlyspecialization where kids are no
longer playing two or threesports up until high school,

(33:07):
they're getting to one in likemiddle school or maybe even
elementary school where they'relike I'm gonna get good at this.
And let's be real, at that ageit's not the kid, it's the
parents.
They're making that decisionand they're saying my kid's
going to be really good at thisand you can get a kid very good
if you specialize to that earlyage.
But maybe you can speak to this.
The research that I've read onit is that injury risk is

(33:31):
significantly higher in earlyspecialization athletes because
of kind of what you just alludedto about the kind of the
imbalances and then also justlike the lack of general
physical preparedness where,like, they don't know how to do
normal things that, like a humanbody should be able to do.

Yeah, uh, massively, I mean.
Uh.
A good example of this is, uh,I had and she's a little bit
older, but I had a volleyballplayer coming to the gym.
I did a consult with me.
It had acl tear, came back andwent through rehab with a, with
a physical therapist.
Once they, once they gotcleared and they went back into

(34:09):
volleyball again.
Uh, fast forward, I think sixmonths.
Uh, knee pain again had to goback in, clean out the meniscus,
uh, physical therapy againfinished physical therapy and
then six months later she's kindof now she's come to us at the
gym and uh, I did a bit of a,just a exercise history.

(34:29):
And once they were done withthe physical therapist and
cleared she and this is never aslight on the athlete, this is,
this is always kind of like it'sour job as as coaches to to
educate more.
Um, but she was uh, training byherself in like a crunch
fitness and so, post acl, postmeniscus, so two surgeries and

(34:49):
then she's doing her owncoaching, she's doing her own
training.
So there is there's no, there'sno guidance, there's no load
management, and uh, and kind ofsaid to her, like what, what
else have you done?
Oh well, we did some speed,quickness and agility drills
with another coach and it's, andit's always, it always goes
back to that.
I've got to get better at mysport.

(35:11):
And people don't equate what wedo in the gym, the strength and
conditioning, the core strength,the hip mobility, the, the all
of all of those just baseline,boring, quote unquote kind of
things, skills that aren'tflashy and aren't sexy for
Instagram.
Um, they don't think they'rethat important.
And one of the things that herdad said was oh, we don't have

(35:36):
time for this.
Like that's going to be ourbiggest issue because the
coaches want her training fivedays a week.
And it's like she tore her ACLand she had meniscus surgery
because she didn't have thatstrength back.
She damaged she's now damagedher knee twice and she's she's a
, she's a junior in high schooland she wants to play at college

(36:00):
and it's like how do we educatein a way that says that you
have to volleyball coaches,sports coaches they start to see
these kids as dollar bills,more than kids that need to be
developed properly so that theyare able to be healthy for the

(36:21):
rest of their lives, not justwin a championship, and then,
when they're out of your care,when they age out and go to
college.
Oh, it's not my problem, likeit's.
I think this goes back totalking to coaches that aren't
just strength and conditioningcoaches like myself that we have
a responsibility, and as muchas I want uh, I want my athletes

(36:47):
to be some of the best athletesin the us, they won't be if I
don't keep them healthy and Ihave a responsibility to them.
That goes far beyond the sportand is about setting them up for
success in life, not just insports, and I don't know if it's
parents to blame or it's maybethe sports coaches or kind of.

(37:10):
The blame kind of is spreadaround a little bit more.
But there's definitely a big, abig conversation that I think
needs to be had about makingsure that these kids aren't
permanently damaged in all ways,physically, uh, as they become
adults, because I mean, as arugby player, I was training in
the gym and I still got injuriesthat I'm still dealing with at

(37:31):
33.
So how we, how we approach thatin in a, in a, in a country
where we prioritize sports as abusiness and a lot of the time
it's it's not thought about likethese are, these are people,
these are kids that we, we couldbe harming for a lot longer
than the the one year, two year,three years that they're under

(37:51):
our care, that when we pass themalong to the next person, we
should be trying to pass themalong in a way that they are
their absolute best, even if itdoesn't necessarily help my
bottom line or help me in mycareer as a coach.
And that goes back to, like Isay, I'll be a successful coach
and business owner if I createsuccessful athletes.

(38:12):
And successful athletes doesn'talways mean the ones with the
top results.

It means the ones that are going to come back and
remember that we made an impact, a positive impact on their
life physically, mentally andemotionally, not just, oh, we
got some championships yep, it'sa much broader conversation and
I think a lot of there'sdefinitely societal pressure,
right, and social media isprobably showing exposure to
this and there's probably a lotof like me to behavior.

(38:39):
Well, it's like you see whatthe competition is doing, be
like I have to be doing that too, and my kids have to be doing
that too, or my team has to bedoing that too.
There's a lot of influences tothis, for sure, and usually I
always on the side of thing thatI don't point towards nefarious
behavior right away.
I think most people areoperating thinking like this is

(39:01):
the best for these athletes.
It's usually a lack of education, so it's why it's like one of
those points I usually try tobring up anytime youth athletes
come up, because, yeah, Itrained plenty of really good
youth golfers like unbelievable,and talk about a like a skill
and precision based sport um,mental precision as well but
then, like you throw them atennis ball and like they don't

(39:22):
know what to do with it.
It's like their first time intheir body.
Or skipping is another goodexample where it's like that
reciprocal opposite arm,opposite leg movement which you
do when you walk, naturally, butyou try to add a little bit of
intensity to it and people endup doing like right arm, right
leg going at the same time andyou're like it's like against
what the mind wants to do.
Um, so like their body's justnot even moving in a way that

(39:45):
physiologically andinstinctively it should be
moving.

Yeah, we're.
It's like motor development issomething that if you, if you
even go to less developedcountries, that you'll see that
the motor development in kidsthat aren't sitting down a desk
all day, they aren't sedentarythese days, just because they're
exposed to more things with amore variety, and so that
foundation and we talk aboutthat foundation and strength all

(40:17):
the time of like, if you want ahigher peak build, a better
foundation, but that, but that,that translation from physical,
general physical preparation tosport specific skills, I think
is a little bit harder toexplain because there's no
direct correlation from how isthis in the gym going to help
them do that?

(40:38):
Um, if they want to jump higher,then let's just keep jumping
and it's like, well, yeah, butthen we've got to think about
tendon strength, we've got tothink about, like, reactivity,
we've got to think aboutproprioception and all of these
other things that go into it.
But, like you say, it's a,there's the, it's a definitely a
multifaceted conversation, uh,that we need to have.

(40:59):
It's not nefarious intent, butit's definitely has nefarious
results.
Um and uh, and unfortunatelyit's not the coaches that suffer
, uh, it's the kids.
Like two surgeries at 16 and anACL, like that's a lifelong
impact if it's not dealt withcorrectly and the last thing we
want to do is have a wholegeneration of kids that are

(41:22):
suffering long-term because ofchoices that we made as adults,
when we could know better if wewanted to look into it.

Right.
That could potentially hindertheir ability to exercise the
rest of their lives in the waythat they want to.
Yep, so I want to go through afew rapid fire things.
One thing I finally.
I remembered what I forgotearlier the distinction between
like walking versus exercise.
I always prioritize those aslike two separate entities

(41:54):
because if you lump themtogether then I think when life
gets busy, an exercise routinecan really be something that
drops off pretty early.
But if you build a foundationof like a daily walking habit
and you kind of split thoseapart, it's like you can lose
your exercise routine but stillbe able to hit like a daily

(42:14):
physical activity threshold.
You may not be getting theintensity to drive performance
and drive additional fitness,but not being sedentary, there's
a lot to be said for the valueof that.
So, just kind of circling back,because I always love talking
about walking, I'm like I can'tbelieve I forgot about that.
Just kind of circling back,Cause I always love talking
about walking, I'm like I can'tbelieve I forgot about that.
Um, I wanted to get, uh, hearfrom you If there are any like

(42:36):
common fitness misconceptionsthat you see or hear about in
the gym.
Um, I do a segment with afriend of mine, Danielle, where
she asked questions of peoplelike on the gym floor, and
that's just always fun to hear,like what people are asking
about.
But you're kind of exposed tothis all day, so are there any
like common misconceptions thathave been coming out that you'd
want to share and dispel?

Um, I think probably one of the biggest ones
is just that more is better,that always people just think
more is better in the gym.
More is better in the gym.
And, uh, I see far more peoplethat are under recovered, um,
than they are like not doingenough.
You know what I mean.
Like so many people are aretraining willing to do more in

(43:18):
the gym, but just aren't willingto do more at home and they
just think, okay, all myproblems will be solved by doing
more in the gym.
Uh, I'd say that's probably oneof the most common ones and
that goes back to, like you justsaid, when fitness drops off,
like if you have that baselineof health, that's a huge one.
More is not always better.
It's quality over quantity.

Cool, yeah, I think that's a great one.
We don't need to dig into thattoo much.
I'd love to hear about thesponsorship program you've been
trying to get up and running andkind of to that note.
A lot of this conversation isbased around, like we've been
speaking largely to people whoare lucky enough to be in a
position where they have accessto a gym.
They live in a safe enoughspace that they can kind of walk

(43:56):
every day.
They have access to food, so itis like a.
It's a privileged position andnot everyone has access to these
things.
Right, unfortunately, money issuch a driver in this world, but
it is one of the realities.
So you've tried setting up asponsorship program for four
kids, but can you just share theissues with that?
It's crazy the amount of redtape involved with just trying

(44:18):
to get some kids sponsorship toyour gym.

Yeah, definitely.
So what we tried to do wascreate a program where people
who are fortunate enough to haveexcess finances would be able
to sponsor a child to come tothe gym, would be able to
sponsor a child to come to thegym, and so, as a gym, one thing
we wanted to be able to do ishave some tax relief for those
people, so they're not justgiving more money to the gym but
they have a benefit to it aswell.

(44:42):
So it's more fair.
It's funny, because we talkabout early specialization and
things like that with kids, butthen you have people that have
maybe really really loved theirsport.
Um, a prime example of this wassomebody who had tommy john
surgery, came back and thendoesn't have, uh, the finances

(45:04):
to be able to pay for properrehab, for something like tommy
john surgery and yep, and sowhat we tried to do was try and
set up a way in which we canhave either find donations from
the local area, get localbusinesses involved or even just
our members donate to be ableto provide rehab services or
just gym memberships for peopleis.

(45:28):
Just setting up these things isextremely complicated and
difficult and is a whole otherset of of, uh of kind of like
taxes, finances, bookkeeping,things like that um, and then
also making having that where webenefit ourselves is also a bit
of a gray area, so that can bedifficult as well, but the one

(45:51):
of the big things is alsofinding people that uh are good
candidates.
Funnily enough, uh, people thatuh, when you do give them
sponsorship, actually are uh, uhstick to some of the parameters
that we give.
So we basically say you do haveto come in three days a week.
You do have to fulfill theseobligations.
So if you are going to besponsored in the gym, you, you
have to do some of the cleaningin the gym and you have to do

(46:13):
these things.
And it's uh, it's been aninteresting thing to see just
how hard sometimes it is to helppeople genuinely Um and uh and
see some of these kids uhactually give back because
they're being gifted a gymmembership and things like that.
So it's definitely somethingthat we're going to keep working
on in the future, but it's, ithasn't come without its

(46:33):
struggles, unfortunately, uh,it's, uh.
I think it's one of those areasthat it's funny when you, when I
saw this the other day, was uh,so about nonprofits and the
money they make versus theimpact they make, um, and things
like that.
So it's definitely it's a.
It's an interesting area.
That's, uh, when I've got moretime as a gym owner and business
owner, that I want to dive into, because I know there's people

(46:57):
out there that genuinely needthis help, people that have been
a victim of earlyspecialization and that
financial barrier is the barrierfor them to get the help they
need so they can really becomean athlete.
So, uh, making sure that we dothat later on, I think is is
important because there arethere are an extreme, there's an

(47:18):
extreme amount of of athletesout there that deserve to be
helped, um, and could beincredible athletes, but don't
have access to proper coachingand proper training and a lot of
the time, I feel like some ofthe best athletes we see are
their situation allows them toexcel, and there's a lot of kids

(47:41):
in the same position that theycould really excel, but they're
just not able to get themselvesin the same situation.
And I'd love to be able toimpact those people that just
fall through that net and don'tget the support that they need
to get, to impact those peoplethat just fall through that net
and don't get the support thatthey need to get to the next
level.

Yeah, um, so anyone listening who happens to
know a good Florida lawyer whospecializes in nonprofit work or
an accountant who could adviseon these, who wants to do some
pro bono work?
Um, we'll make sure all ofMark's contact information is in
the show notes so we'll try toget you some help on that.
Yeah, cause it's a.
You know, I love that.
You've been working on that andit is it's.

(48:23):
It's strange how much paperworkand how tricky it is,
especially from like somebodywho doesn't normally operate in
that particular space, to justtrying to figure out that
sponsorship side of things.
I do have one final question.
Um is is Coda a gym dog?

She absolutely is a gym dog.
Yes, yeah, she's a.
She's um.
It's funny being in Florida.
We get a lot of thunderstormsand you hear a lot of dogs being
afraid of thunderstorms and theamount of weights that she
hears dropping at the gym allday and the weightlifting right.
She has never once been afraidof any any thunder.
And she's, she's out there, shelies on her bed while we're all
dropping heavyweights every dayand she's in there for some

(48:57):
cuddles for anybody that isn'tfeeling it.
Like we said, had a bad day atwork but like, hey, well, just
you know, I'll go to the officeand go say hi to Coda for a
little bit, and that normallyturns their day around a little
bit.

I bet it's a big help for a lot of people.
Are there any, any resourcesyou want to point people towards
?
I know we cover a lot, butanything that you like, that you
consume, that you think wouldbe along these same lines, that
people can kind of go to as well.

If I'm honest, I try my best other than my own
continuing education to try andstay away from it as much as I
can.
When I'm not in the gym, I, uh,I'm a big, I'm just a big audio
book guy.
Fiction, audio books, um, oneof my favorite I did read
recently I'll tell you a goodbook recommendation is shoe dog.
If you've heard of shoe dog, uh, yep, that's.

(49:44):
Is it up there somewhere?
There's somewhere.
Yeah, that's, that's a greatbook.
Um, I'll give a few bookrecommendations.
Um, love Shoe Dog.
I love the Energy Bus.
If you've heard of the EnergyBus, that's a good one.
Legend by James Kerr forcreating culture.
That's a great book.

(50:05):
It talks about the New ZealandAll Blacks.
Unfortunately, I used to be abig, big podcast guy when I
wasn't running my own gym andnow my time is so much more
limited so I try and listen to I.
I alternate between fiction andnon-fiction when I go on my
walks in the morning, so I reada fiction book and then a

(50:27):
non-fiction book, and so I'mexcited to.
I'm going to start steve jobs'sbook.

If you've read that one, uh, I actually
listened to that on audiobookspecifically, and it's a long
one, I think it's, and so I'mexcited to.
I'm going to start Steve Jobs'sbook.
If you've read that one, uh, Iactually listened to that on
audio book specifically, andit's a long one.
I think it's like 42 hours, 26hours.
Yeah, it's on on single speed,so depending on how fast you
listen to it, a little bitfaster than that.

but yeah, I'll have to try that one.
Yeah, but those are my bookrecommendations for you.

Cool, I appreciate it.
And, on the note that podcastsare, they take up a lot of time.
We're approaching an hour and45 minutes, so I want to be
respectful of your time.
We're going to link to you andto your gym.
I'll add jamie in there.
Um, is there any other linksyou want me to include in that?

you know, if you throw usa weightlifting up there
, for people that actually don'tknow much about weightlifting,
um, it's a sport that really uh,uh, as most athletes will know,
when you, when you kind ofretire from one sport, which is
rugby, for me, uh, it's it'stough to find, uh, your kind of
like, your, your place If you'vealways identified as an athlete
.
Uh, for me, weightlifting it'snot a sport that you really you,

(51:28):
it's great to be in a club andhave a team around you, but it's
also something that you pick upby yourself.
I think weightlifting saved mefrom an awful lot of, uh, mental
difficulties as I kind ofretired, or got retired from
rugby, as they say, um, and so,uh, yeah, let's throw usa
weightlifting up there, and soanybody that is either in the
florida area or would love tolearn more about weightlifting

(51:50):
you've got my contact detailsI'd love to get you into the
sport that has really allowed meto have a very fulfilling
career so far.

Great and, on that note, it seems like a very
appropriate place to conclude.
Mark, thanks so much for comingon.
Thank you, buddy, I appreciateit.
Hey, everyone, that's all fortoday's show.
I want to thank you so much forstopping by and watching,
especially if you've made it allthe way to this point.
If you'd like to be notifiedwhen new episodes are going to
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To learn more about today'sguest, feel free to look in the

(52:21):
description.
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As always, likes, shares,comments are a huge help to me
and to this channel and to theshow.
So any of that you can do Iwould really appreciate.
And again, thank you so muchfor watching.
I'll see you next time.

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