Harvesting Harmony: The Synergy of Regenerative Farming, Landscape Architecture, and Earth's Nutrient Wealth with Matthieu Mehuys

Episode Transcript
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Parker Condit (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to Exploring Health
Macro to Micro.
I'm your host, parker Condit.
In the show, I interview healthand wellness experts around
topics like sleep, exercise,nutrition, stress management,
mental health and much more.
So by the end of each episodeyou'll have concrete, tangible
advice that you can startimplementing today to start
living a healthier life, eitherfor yourself or for your loved

(00:21):
ones.
And that's the microside of theshow.
The macro side of the show isdiscussing larger, systemic
issues that are contributing tohealth outcomes.
An example of that isunderstanding how our food is
grown can have a profound impacton the quality of that food,
the soil and the environment atlarge.
My guest today discussing thatis Matthieu Mehuys.

(00:42):
Matthieu is the co-founder ofPolonia Landscape Architects.
Their mission is to createsustainable and ecological
outdoor spaces where people andnature are in harmony.
He has a master's ofengineering and landscape
architecture and has a goal tomake our world a greener,
healthier place.
We talk a lot about soil in thisepisode, which is something I
never thought I would base awhole episode around, but here

(01:04):
we are.
But I do think from afoundational standpoint, it's
really important to understandthat the quality of your food is
going to be determined largelyby the quality of the soil where
that food is grown.
So if you eat food and I'massuming that most of you
listening do eat food and youcare about your health then
understanding soil is actually areally important aspect of that
, and I get that this isprobably a topic that not a lot

(01:27):
of people are actively pursuing,but I think it's very important
nonetheless.
So I think this episode can actas a way to get a bit of a more
well-rounded understanding ofthe agricultural ecosystem as a
whole.
So in the show we end updiscussing soil and how it
influences the quality of ourfood.
We talk about regenerativefarming and clear examples of
how it outpaces traditionalfarming.

(01:49):
We go into Matthieu's upbringingand how he was raised in a
farming family and how that'shelped shape his worldview.
He introduced me to the idea ofharvesting sunlight, which was
a very helpful term for me tounderstand carbon capture.
And then, finally, we talkabout how the future of business
is going to be working more inline with the harmony in nature
which is a common themethroughout this episode.
And then, finally, I want tomention that Matthiue is the

(02:14):
author of the recently publishedbook 12 Universal Laws of
Nature how to Use your Land toits Full Potential, which
expands on many of the topicsthat we discuss here today.
So, without further delay,please enjoy my conversation
with Mattiue Mehuys.
Matthieu, thanks so much forbeing here.
We're going to be talking a lotabout sustainability, landscape

(02:38):
design, architecture, greenspaces, but I do want to start
with this recent study that justcame out of the University of
Michigan, approximately sayingthat growing having like an
at-home garden has five to sixtimes the carbon footprint of
traditional farming per unit offruit or vegetable.
I'm just curious to hear yourthoughts on this, just to see

(03:02):
where what the tone of thisconversation is going to be.

Matthieu Mehuys (03:03):
Yeah, definitely, but first of all,
parker thank you very much forhaving me on the show.
It's an honor here to talkabout what you do and what we
can bring together into theworld.
Now I think this study I wouldwant to read the details of it,
but I think I cannot believethat is nowhere near the end.

(03:25):
I cannot believe that isnowhere near the truth.
Obviously it's just a statementthat you cannot prove right.
Like, how do they even measuresaying that people at home have
a higher carbon footprint thanfood that is growing somewhere
else?
Like there's ways that if yougrow food at home, on your own,

(03:48):
in your own garden, and you doit in a certain way, which we
can discuss more about it thatyou're actually going to be
carbon negative Because, as itturns out, how plants work is
that you probably heard ofphotosynthesis, but plants will
take carbon from the atmosphereand put it into the soil.
Now, obviously, if you have ahome garden and you use all

(04:10):
kinds of pesticides and youspray everything at home, yeah,
then this garden is definitelygoing to be a carbon like, it's
going to pollute the atmosphere.
That's 100% clear.
But if you do it the right way,which isn't harmony with nature
, you're actually going to bestoring carbon into the soil, so
I think this research is very,very, very dangerous, honestly.

(04:33):
Yeah, so I did look into it alittle bit.

A big part of what the researchers were saying
was it was the infrastructureof setting up the home garden,
like all the tools you need tobuy the sheds or the raised beds
or whatever it's going to be.
So it's the actual physicalinfrastructure that was the
biggest sort of carbon hurdle.
I also don't know if this waslike a longitudinal study where

(04:57):
they're checking the carbonfootprint after five years of
having a home garden set upversus the initial set up and
the first yield of fruit.
The other thing the study didnot mention was food miles
involved, and I think that'ssomething you were sort of
alluding to.
The average distance your foodtravels is 1,700 miles.

(05:19):
So you know again, I'm not likea carbon expert, but there's
got to be some benefit togetting the fruits and
vegetables from your backyardversus half the distance of the
country away.

Yeah, that's definitely one big part of the
Well.
It's actually not that much ofa part of the equation.
Well, if you look objectively,it kind of makes sense that
transportation would be thebiggest hurdle in terms of
carbon emissions.
But it's not actually thebiggest issue.

(05:50):
In fact it's the way that thefarmland is being used.
It's the way that chemicals areused into the soil and they are
actually depleting the soil andthis sets out huge amounts of
carbon dioxide.
And in this whole carbonbalance, transportation is only
a minor thing.

(06:11):
Obviously it's good to reducethe food miles, but it's not
that much of a huge impact andin fact sometimes it gets a bit
complicated.
But in some cases it will evenbe better to and this is linked
to the food patterns of how weall eat.
Like, if you want to eat anapple in your early summer, then

(06:37):
it will be more sustainable.
So the carbon footprint will belower if that apple comes from
the other side of the world thanif you would eat it locally.
Because if you have to eat itlocally, it will be harvested
nine months earlier and it willbe in a cooler, that is, in a

(06:59):
controlled environment, for nineyears, and that will actually
have a way bigger footprint.
So it's kind of like it getsquite complicated to say, okay,
this practice is bad and this isgood and that's what.
In all of the things that I talkabout.
It's not so much about what weare doing.
That is the problem.

(07:20):
Like you can say, home gardensare bad, or cows are bad for the
environment, or you thinksoybeans are bad for the
environment.
Everybody comes up with somesort of issue and they might be
true in a way, but it's notreally about what it is.
It's about how it is produced.
This is the key issue thatnobody, or very little people,

(07:43):
are talking about.
Like we're all talking about oh, you should be vegan or you
should only eat meat.
The world is going crazy interms of what is healthy food,
like.
If you go into that rabbit hole, it's endless, right, but I
believe that it doesn't actuallymatter.
It's really about how the foodis produced, how the cow has

(08:04):
lived, how that soybean has beengrown.
That is where the huge impacton our planet is, or can be seen
.
Does that make sense?

It definitely makes sense and that's why I
appreciate the opportunity tointerview people like you and
also have this long-form formatwhere we can spend a lot of time
kind of digging into the nuance.
Because the apple example yougave, for example, I understood
that eating seasonally it's justgoing to be sort of better and
it makes more sense.
I didn't know that apples wouldbe stored for nine months.

(08:38):
I'm sure a lot of people didn'tknow that.
I also, in my mind, in my verylimited view of how carbon
footprints and carbon emissionswork, I didn't know that it
would be.
But it makes sense that itwould be sort of flexible based
on the thing that you'remeasuring against and the time
of the year for seasonality.
So it's super layered buthopefully we can try to unpack

(09:01):
that a little bit as we gothrough this conversation.
But we're definitely going toget to sort of best farming
practices and gardeningpractices.
But I do want to start a littlebit with your background,
understanding how sort ofgrowing up in like a farming
family has influenced yourcareer path and sort of your
worldview.

Yeah, I love that question.
Thank you for asking that andit's I have to go back way in
time.
Like you said you mentionedalready, I grew up on a family
farm.
My father is a farmer, mybrother is a farmer.
My brother is doing someamazing work.
We can talk about that moreabout regenerative farming, but

(09:42):
I grew up on this farm and aboutit must be at a very, very
early stage.
I think it was between threeand five years old.
When I was between three andfive years old, I just got
intrigued by what my father wasdoing on the farm, the fact that
he would put seeds in the onthe land and that it would grow
into a crop and then it would beharvested.

(10:05):
And like it's one of myearliest memories of being on
this planet and that justcompletely blew my mind.
I still remember the, that Istarted to realize how crazy it,
how magical it is that if wetake a seed, you put it in the
soil, it can grow into a plant.
It can even grow it in amajestic oak tree.
Like how the hell is thispossible?

(10:27):
And from that fascination Isaid to myself oh, I want to
grow my own food.
I want to start my ownvegetable garden, and at that
time what I did was I startedout with radishes.
I don't know why I started withradishes, I just maybe my
grandfather gave it to me.

(10:47):
But this is something for yourlisteners as well.
If somebody wants to growvegetables at home, radishes are
the easiest vegetables to growat home.
You just seed it, it pops up,you get it.
Couple weeks later you haveradishes to harvest.
So my, as a kid, my first gardenendeavor was okay, I'm going to

(11:07):
put some radishes in.
So I did that, and whathappened was I had a huge
success.
I was able to grow my ownradishes.
And then I was like, ah, Ifound it, now I can grow any
kind of vegetables.
And I thought, okay, if I cangrow radishes, I can grow
tomatoes, everything.
So I bought tons of seeds, Ihad my own little garden, I

(11:29):
prepared the soil and I startedseeding everything everywhere.
And then I thought, okay, thisis so easy, I'm just going to
come back a couple weeks laterand it'll be full of vegetables
and I can eat it and share itwith my family.
Well, I guess, parker, you knowwhat happened next, right, I
came back like I was with mycousin as well.

(11:50):
I think I was maybe away for acouple weeks, visiting my cousin
or something, and I thought, oh, I'll come back and it will be
full of vegetables.
Now, of course, the wholegarden was overgrown with weeds,
because we had also put in somecompost and some other things
to make things grow better, andit was just full of weeds.
So I was devastated.

(12:10):
I was like what, how is thispossible?
It's just like it doesn't makesense to me.
I was really devastated andfrom that day onwards I actually
said I tried to understand hownature works.
And this has governed meactually throughout my life.
Because later on, afterstudying modern languages and

(12:33):
economics, I said I want tolearn something practical.
I'm going to study landscapearchitecture because I really
want to understand more abouthow nature works and how we can
actually play with it.
So from that study I did abachelor's and a master's
degrees and I then went.
Well, I did my master's inGermany and Munich, because the

(12:55):
Germans, they are very good atdoing things properly.
So I said, okay, I'm going togo and study in Germany.
And then I Very good process.
Yeah, exactly.
So I had my master's degreesand then I applied for a job,
thinking like this is it?
I'm going to get my nine tofive job.
It's going to be amazing.
Well, I got a job and a coupleof months down being in that job

(13:19):
, I kind of get depressed.
Being part of the nine to fivework, I said like this is really
not for me.
And, yeah, I kind of becamedepressed, I would say, but I
kept doing it because I learneda lot.
Like I don't regret doing that,because I learned a lot from
the process of how people inGermany think and work.
It's really interesting to havethat experience.

(13:41):
But then, after three years, Isaid this is really enough.
I quit my job, I packed mybackpack and I said I'm going to
go out into the world andtravel and see where there are
equal resorts, where farms aredoing something different,
different that is good for ourplanet.
Because obviously I becameaware like, okay, we have to do
something about our climate here.

(14:02):
This is, this is reallysomething that we have to take
control of.
And from that I visited lots offarms, I did lots of trainings,
I kept on learning and learningand then I came back to well,
there were some other countriesin between, but I came back to
Belgium and started my owncompany.

(14:23):
My own company is calledPaolonia Landscape Architects,
so in that company we reallylook into garden design in a way
that is aesthetic but it isalso good for our environment.
So we bring those two aspectstogether and we bring that in
harmony.
And now, more recently, becauseI've also had a lot of

(14:44):
experience with helping mybrother on the farm how to
transition to more regenerativefarm and we can talk about that
more in depth I now also consultother farmers globally to make
the transition and to take backcontrol of their own farm,
because whatever is happening inthe environmental area, that
things are not working, it'saffecting the farmers today and

(15:10):
it's kind of mixed with thepolitics as well, and I see so
many farmers are hurting because, well, they're kind of a boxing
ball of politics, especiallyhere in Europe.
You've probably seen the old ofthe farmers being out there.
Well, I'll tell you this, mybrother is one of the few
farmers who isn't out therebecause he decided to change in

(15:30):
a certain direction that's morein harmony with nature and he's
way more profitable today.
So he doesn't have to go out onthe streets and protest because
he has made the shift alreadyand I want to help.
Well, I now dedicated my lifeto helping farmers and gardeners
and landowners to make thattransition.

Yeah, it's a great point.
So there's a lot we're going towant to get into.
But just because we're kind ofon it now talking about the
farmers, are they sort ofstriking and protesting Because
at least in the US I know a lotof farming, at least a lot of
crops, are subsidized, becauserunning a farmer is just
generally not profitable?
Is it the same thing, likethere's subsidies have been

(16:10):
changed or the reimbursement,something like that, where
they're just not happy with whatthe government assistance is at
this point?

Yeah, exactly that's the reason why.
So I'll tell you what in theEuropean Union, 90% of the
budget that's being spent fromthe European Union is spent in
agriculture.
So, all of well, we obviouslyhave also national tax paying,
but the part that we pay to theEuropean Union as for taxes, 90%

(16:39):
is spent on agriculture.
And the reason why?
Well, we have to go a littlebit back in history again.
But after the world wars therewere some big famines, like in
Ireland.
There was a huge famine.
Europe was under a lot ofstress.
Food was not readily available,especially all of the diversity

(17:01):
that we have today.
It wasn't there.
So it kind of started from thatidea okay, we never want to
have hunger again in Europe.
So they started to push forwardan agenda that is really
focused on having hugequantities of food and super
industrialized and superspecialized, that we would never

(17:23):
have to experience being infamine, which is kind of a
logical thinking, and it madesense.
And then, a couple years later,we had the 60s, where or the
late 50s, 60s where we have whatthey call the Green Revolution,
where agriculture extremelychanged in a very short time, at
a very, very short time, whereall the chemical pesticides got

(17:46):
introduced, where all thechemical fertilizers, all the
things that in fact increasedthe yields of farms, and at
first it looked like an amazingthing, right, farmers were
making more money, they wereearning more, the yields
increased.
It was like a magic thing thatthey found out about.
So this became so big that.

(18:08):
But one important thing that weforget in this whole process,
or that was forgotten in thatprocess, is that we were
depleting the soil.
With each use of chemicals youkind of get all the natural
resources out of the soilTogether with that, also the
carbon emissions that we talkedearlier.
So now we are 40, 50, 60 yearslater and we kind of stuck with

(18:31):
this system that's heavilysubsidized, it's heavily
industrialized, it's monoculture, like all of the farms were put
into a direction that they hadto focus on one thing, and again
it all kind of makes sense.
But we forgot about that we areworking with nature and that

(18:51):
nature can only handle a certainamount of things at a certain
time.
So now, today, it's actually inthe last five to 10 years, I
would say on top of the factthat the soil is depleting and
farmers are losing their soilliterally, and climate change,

(19:16):
on top of that, the weatherpatterns get more extreme,
farmers start to see that thingsare not working as it used to
work.
So they're kind of already in alot of stress in what's
happening with how they wereused to farm, because they grew
up in that way, like even my ownfather.
It's just how things were goingwhen he started.

(19:38):
It was how things were done,and I'll tell you more if he
wouldn't have continued toindustrialize and scale up, he
would be out of business.
So even my father is anindustrial farmer and we are
changing that step by step.
But he didn't have anotherchoice, otherwise he wouldn't be

(19:58):
able to provide for a family.
That's just how he was kind ofpushed in that direction.
So now today with the climateand now with more recent, well,
we have.
This is another interestingthing that I heard in the news.
I try not to list too much tothe news, but somebody said like

(20:22):
there's a difference betweensomebody that goes to vote and
then somebody that goes to thegrocery store.
It's one person, but they arein fact two different persons.
So what in the politics inEurope?
Everybody wants a greener, moresustainable and a better
environment, and it completelymakes sense.

(20:43):
But then if they go to thegrocery stores.
They don't buy the organic foodthey don't buy.
They only buy the cheap food.
So now the European Union andall the local governments start
to say, okay, we need to cutdown on chemical use, and we're
going to.
So they say, okay, we're goingto just take away the subsidies,
while now the farmers go crazy,right, because they are already

(21:07):
on so much stress, and nowthey're going to start cutting
back to the subsidies thatthey've been getting for such a
long time.
So it's kind of a perfect stormthat's happening now, and it's
only going to get worse.
I'll tell you that.

Yeah, I believe that I appreciate you kind of
walking us through the historyof all that, because I think
it's easy for people to get lostup.
Or get lost or caught up in themore recent narrative of you
know, I think there's beenplenty of nefarious things that
have happened in theagricultural community, but to
understand that a lot of thisoriginated from sort of a fear

(21:43):
of famine.
That makes sense and sometimesthis shows usually more around
healthcare and healthcare in theUS.
Again, there's a lot ofnefarious activity in there, but
if you go back to the historyyou just see the complexities
and the, I guess, theinefficiency of the healthcare
system.
Now you can go back and you cantrack the steps and usually

(22:06):
it's lots of well intentionedpolicies that are sort of
stacked on top of each other andthen you just get unintended
consequences that are sort ofcompounding over time.
So it sounds very similar towhat's happening now, where a
lot of these things maybe notcoming from nefarious or a
malintentioned place, actuallycoming from a good place, but

(22:26):
now we're just dealing with thelong term consequences of that,
some of which I think has beenlike willful ignorance on a
large part.
Like I think it's not a secretthat monocropping is just
depleting the soil and is justravaging like the nutrient
density of soil and of the foodsthat we're eating.
But still, like a lot of thisstarted kind of from a good

(22:49):
place.
So I appreciate you walking usthrough that history.
I think the most natural placeto go is to start talking about
regenerative farming Also, justthe need for innovation.
That's kind of what you'regetting at in that a lot of
these industrialized farmerswere.
This is just how we did it whenwe grew up.
We're going to keep doing itthat way, but subsidies change,

(23:10):
the environment changes and weneed to adapt.
So I think regenerative farmingis one of the more innovative
approaches.
So I think, for anyone who'snot familiar with that, getting
an explanation of whatregenerative farming is and then
I'd love to be able to diveinto sort of the benefits and
specifics of that as well- yeah,definitely.

So I can explain that more in that.
But I'll start, maybe, toexplain what organic farming is,
because it's kind of linked toit.
Now, organic farming is justthe way that you say you don't
want to use any, or it's notthat you don't.
In organic farming, you don'tuse chemical pesticides and
chemical products, even thoughnow today, even in the organic

(23:52):
system, you can use organicmaterials, such as copper, which
are highly toxic.
But that's that's part ofanother discussion.
So this is just what organic isIn Europe.
It's quite highly protected,the standards are quite high.
But the only thing that thisagain, it's a good intention,

(24:14):
right, we don't want to be usingchemicals and we don't want to
have all these things in ourfood.
Now, that's a good intention,but it's not fixing the problem
with the soil.
So they've, in this wholenarrative, a big, big part is
forgotten.
Now what we see in organicfarming is that they have to use
way more like ways to doweeding and all these things,

(24:40):
because they're so focused onnot using chemicals.
It's like you focus on that andthen you're not solving the
bigger problems, and then that'skind of where regenerative
farming comes in, which is, inessence, a way to farm.
That is way more.
That is more in harmony withnature.
And what I mean by more inharmony with nature is that if

(25:03):
you go out and look into theworld and into the natural world
, into nature, where will youfind a bare soil, a soil that is
naked Like.
Go and go and find me a placein nature that has a bare soil.
It's very difficult to find.
It only happens when there's alandslide or a wildfire that you

(25:25):
get in a bare soil.
So this is the first thing thatwe have to avoid as much as
possible to have a bare soil,because a bare soil in nature is
like it's very vulnerable.
It's kind of like opening yourown skin, and that's how I
explain it as well, that thetopsoil of our planet all across

(25:47):
the world is kind of like ourtop skin.
It needs to be protected, butif we continuously rip it open,
it kind of it gets infections,and it's exactly the same with
the soil.
Now, what regenerative?

It gets dry and flaky.

Yes, it gets dry and all of the humidity also
gets lost.
It evaporates way more.
So that's another issue inwater that we're facing more and
more.
But then what regenerativefarming does is to obviously you
have to disturb the soil to putyour new crop and to harvest
and to do all these things, butyou minimize as much as possible

(26:26):
, and one way of doing that isto do no tillage or avoid, like
minimal tillage or no tillage,because what tillage does?
It's an age-old practice infarming.
In fact, it was how farming wasrevolutionized when it started,

(26:47):
like more than 4,000 years ago.
This tool enabled us to work theland more efficiently, but what
it does as well is that itcompletely turns everything
around.
And I'll tell you this in ahealthy soil, this is a complex,
a complex system that we don'teven know everything about, that
there's a huge interactionbetween microorganisms, between

(27:10):
the roots, between otherorganisms that create a soil
that is healthy.
And, in fact, what is morestriking is that and this is
related to your work is thatwhat happens in the soil.
It's very similar to whathappens in our gut.
Now, I think, in healthylifestyle.

(27:31):
Gut is quite a bespoken topicnowadays.
Well, maybe it kind of comestogether with farming and
agriculture, because it's nowbecoming more a bespoken topic
in agriculture as well.
Now, what we do if we till thesoil completely?
We don't want to do that, butit's a common practice.

(27:54):
We mix up all of theseorganisms and to get even more
in details, like each millimeterand centimeter or inch for you,
each and every inch hasdifferent types of
microorganisms, that some likemore oxygen in the soil, some
like more other things in thesoil.
So each layer has differenttypes of micronutrients.

(28:16):
So it's hugely complex.
In fact, we know more about thegalaxies and everything that's
happening around us than what'shappening under our feet.
It's still like an area ofresearch.
That's not completely.
We don't know everything aboutit, let's say.
But we do know that if you turnthe soil around, it has a huge

(28:38):
impact and it kind of messeseverything up.
So in regenerative farming youavoid that and one way of doing
that is using cover crops.
So now we're getting reallytechnical.
But cover crops is actually acrop that you do between crops.
So what happens is that andI'll give an example from our
own farm that I helped toinstall.

(29:01):
So on our own farm we had arotation of potatoes and
pumpkins.
So we would have, we wouldplant the potatoes, and it was
an early harvest of potatoes, sothe potatoes would already be
harvested in early summer herein Europe.

(29:21):
Now in other, when we were notpracticing regenerative farming,
after the harvest of thepotatoes, the land would just be
like bare and we wouldn't doanything with it for probably
nine months, because thepumpkins is only the next year
in spring.
So there's like a gap of ninemonths where the soil is left
bare.
And now that I explained youbefore that this is not what you

(29:45):
want, what happens is, when thesoil is bare, all kinds of
weeds aggressive weeds alsostart to grow.
Now, if you then want to plantyour pumpkins, you have to use
pesticides to kill the weeds, tostart putting your pumpkins,
but then you're killing the soileven more, so the pumpkins
don't even perform how theyshould do.
So what we did is we introduceda cover crop and, moreover, a

(30:08):
diverse cover crop, because innature there's a lot of
diversity.
So we had picked specific seedsthat have certain functions to
improve the soil, and it's awhole mix, and we implemented
that.
In those nine months, the soilwas able to restore itself.
Moreover, it was able toperform photosynthesis, because

(30:33):
when the soil is bare there's nophotosynthesis.
So it's putting carbon from theatmosphere into the soil and
it's improving, it's creatinglots of roots.
Over the nine months we evensee more biodiversity, more
butterflies, more insects.
So it has a huge impact.
Now, because we select thecover crop so specifically and

(30:54):
it's full of annual plants thatonly live one year, that only
live one year, the cover cropnaturally starts to die off and
in that time we are there toplant the pumpkins.
Now I'll tell you this when Ifirst talked about this with my
father to implement this on thefarm, he was like are you crazy?
Are you some kind of a hippieto think that plants are going

(31:18):
to solve everything?
He's like never that you'regoing to do this on my farm.
It doesn't make sense.
What are the neighbors going tothink?
But I persisted and, togetherwith my brother, we convinced
this was like seven years agoand we persisted and we
continued and we said, okay,let's do a test, let's do half
of the field your way, the oldway and our way.

(31:39):
And we persisted and doing thatand the incredible part was
that the pumpkins would grow wayfaster.
Because do you want me to telleven more in detail what happens
under the soil.
Is it okay to put more in depth?

Yeah, I mean anyone who's still here at this
point you better be interestedin soil, because I think soil is
really interesting.
Just one of the notes I hadjotted down when you were
talking about tilling.
But yeah, I definitely want youto share more about soil, the
tilling and sort of thedisruption.
If you were to think of likesoil seems to be this very

(32:15):
intelligent thing where there'sso much microbiome and sort of
bacteria and they're inparticular layers for a reason.
Anything in nature, it doesn'tdo it haphazardly.
Everything is there in aparticular place for a reason.
So if you were to think of thelayers of soil that you're
talking about, disrupting them,it's like you're just disrupting

(32:37):
the natural intelligence that'ssort of built into nature.
So that was all I wanted to say, but yes, please go on even
more about.

We have some more time right.
So I love to talk more aboutthe technical parts of what's
happening under the soil,because it's so intriguing,
because we don't see it.
You only have to test it, youhave to prove it, and sometimes
we dig up a part of the soil tosee what's happening with the
roots.
But then now what happens isthat this cover crop that I
talked about I said it kind ofdies off, naturally because it's

(33:09):
annual plants.
Now what happens?
If you plant the pumpkin there,the roots of the new pumpkin
will actually use the channelsfrom the plants that died off,
so the pumpkin will be able togrow roots way deeper, way
faster.
Now what happens when drierarea, like with climate change,

(33:31):
now the rains don't come asfrequently, but these pumpkins
have way deeper roots.
And on the other field we didn'tdo that.
So it was incredible to seethat on that field, how the
field was closed by the pumpkins.
It was way faster, and so thatalso, again, because the

(33:53):
pumpkins grow faster, itprotects the soil way faster.
So already it's kind of like aparabolic move up, because it
stacks up the advantages.
So what we then saw is what?
It's just amazing, the soil wascovered way quicker and then
the harvest was just the 20 to a30% higher and the inputs were

(34:17):
way lower.
We had to like the way tomaintain it and to weed it.
On that one field that closed,there was no weeding to be done,
like it's still done manuallywith a shovel, like you shovel
the soil On that other field, westill had to do that.
And now comes the amazing partis that and this is what farmers

(34:37):
need to see and realize that myfather, when we did that, he
was like oh my God, we neverreally talked about it, but he
was amazed about it.
And now it's become a commonpractice and he's actually doing
it because he came tounderstand how it works.
And that's something that Ithink this is.
A key aspect in making thechange is to show people, or do

(34:59):
tests and prove that it's waybetter, and then people also
like I'm explaining it to younow you understand better why
it's so important.

Yeah, I also like having sort of these in depth
conversations because, at thevery least, it's going to give
people much more appreciationfor everything that goes into
food.
I think it's so easy to justgrab food from the supermarket
and just not think anything ofit.
So just next time you'regrabbing a potato, just think
about everything that can gointo it.
Actually, now, so it's reallyinteresting.
Did you know this was going towork?

(35:31):
Like, have you seen this doneelsewhere?
Or did you just have sort ofyour theoretical knowledge and
you were so confident that itwas going to work that you just
stuck with it?
Because it's such a differentpractice from the norm of
farming, it's like you must havebeen hugely confident to try to
implement that on your dad'sfarm.

Yeah, no, that's a great question.
And there's this great sayingthat we always built on the
shoulders of giants.
Right, I didn't invent this.
In fact, it was invented bynature at some point.
But I had a mentor at that timewho was part of a company
called Soil Capital, and theyare a great company that is

(36:14):
consulting all across the worldfarmers to make that transition
as well, and I learned it fromhim.
From him, and I kind of I alwayshad that interest about how
nature worked, so I didn'treally understand it fully, but
the moment it clicked for me itwas like, of course we have to
do it.
It's just complete logic.
There's no doubt that this isnot going to work Like,

(36:36):
obviously, I was scared if it'sgoing to work, but it was.
It's just how nature performs,and this is something it's also
part of my upcomingaward-winning book 12 Universal
Laws of Nature how to Get theMost Potential Out of your Land,
and in that book I go quite indepth more about look, nature

(36:59):
has been governed by certainlaws for over millions and
millions and millions of years.
Now, if you think that you cantry and ignore these rules or
even work against them, it'sgoing to be a tough time, and
this is what's happened inagriculture.
They try to industrialize it,to monocrope it, do everything

(37:23):
that is not happening in nature.
Again, it's not that theywanted to do something bad or
something.
It's not that.
It's just they didn't have theknowledge now.
But we are now in an age wherewe are starting to understand
more of it, so it's ourresponsibility to also act upon
it.

Yeah, it seems like not just in agriculture but
collectively At least I hope so.
Maybe it's just the circles Irun in, but it does seem like
there's from a societal, maybecultural standpoint, that
there's a slow shift backtowards a better alignment, or
at least there's more peopletalking about it, but it does
feel like there's sort of ashift in that direction.
So for agriculture to be movingthat way too is definitely

(38:05):
encouraging.
Can you share more of thebenefits of regenerative farming
?
So we talked about sort of theefficiency in yield and not
having to, obviously the bettersoil quality.
But can you talk about maybethe carbon capture that happens
from that, the increasednutrient density, because
potatoes grown two differentways are not.
They may weigh the same butthey're not apples to apples,

(38:29):
from a nutrient densitystandpoint, sort of a quality
standpoint.

Yeah, that's a really good question, and well,
we can talk about a couple of.
Do you want to go first in thecarbon or the health, the
nutrient density aspect?

Let's go with carbon and then we can go to
nutrients.

So with carbon again, it's logical.
We have to start thinkinglogical how nature performs in
the nature, like before thehumans were so dominant on our
planet and we still havepristine landscapes.
If you go and look at thesepristine landscapes, it's very
diverse.

(39:10):
There's grasslands grazed byanimals, there's forests,
there's shrubs, there's allkinds of different plants.
Now, if you can start to mimicthat in a well-organized way
because you still have toperform, you still have to get
the guilt, you still have tomake sure that everything is
well-organized If the purpose ofyour farm is to be profitable,

(39:34):
maybe.
If it's not, then you can doother things, but let's say that
this is the goal of your farmthen what's going to happen as
well is that you will becapturing way more sunlight.
Like the thing that I talkedabout, if the soil is bare,
there's no photosynthesishappening.

(39:55):
Now, if there's nophotosynthesis happening, what's
happening is that the sun goesonto the land, it heats the soil
and we get global warming whatwe're faced with as well.
So, whereas if you have maximumplants growing on your land
through these cover crops orthere's other things like can

(40:16):
add trees in your system as well, but maximizing the amount of
sunlight that you can harvest isjust maximizing the transition
of carbon dioxide.
So carbon in the atmosphere, oratmospheric carbon, will be
drawn into the plants, into thesoil, into the roots, and it

(40:40):
will deposit carbon even intothe soil.
And then we get back to how themicroorganisms interact and
this whole complex thing.
Well, that's what's happening.
If the soil is healthy, theplants will perform better at
doing photosynthesis.
So it's kind of like a flywheel.
When you start to doing it, itkeeps becoming better and better

(41:03):
and better.
So that's really how that's.
The incredible story of all thechallenges we are facing today
is that they can be sold veryrapidly if we take the right
actions.
It's really amazing.
But now you understand thatthis will increase the carbon
content of your soil and justthe benefits of having a hybrid

(41:26):
carbon content is so huge.
Like just one aspect is thatyour soil will become more like
a sponge.
We all know a sponge.
If you have a sponge at home,if you hold it under the water
like, it will firstly absorb thewater, but then, once it is
saturated with water, it willdrain the water through.

(41:48):
And that's exactly what happenswith that type of a soil, which
is higher in carbon it becomeslike a sponge, whereas the
industrial land that has beenlike plowed and destroyed over
and over again doesn't have thatcapacity.
Now again, we're facing withclimate change, where rains and

(42:09):
come less frequently, so it justhas such a huge advantage it's
gonna become like a no-brainerto farmers to go into that
direction or at least I'm tryingto convince them of that
because it's like politics aretrying to push them in that way.
But if it's not politics, itwill be climate change that will

(42:30):
destroy their business if theydon't jump on the wagon.
And then what is moreinteresting and we talked about
it before we started our callbut the carbon accreditation
industry, which is okay, we candiscuss is it greenwashing, is
whatever it is but there's ahuge industry that is starting
to take off where companies thathave a certain carbon footprint

(42:54):
or even me, if I have a certaincarbon footprint I can start
paying farmers to farm in thatway that I've explained, because
it's gonna put carbon into thesoil.
So I'm kind of paying my carboncredits.
That's the name of it.
So, other than the generalbenefits of becoming a

(43:15):
regenerative farmer, focusing onthe health of the soil, is that
you will be awarded for itfinancially, and I've been
looking at some research either.
In tree growings like it, I'veseen some research.
It's crazy what it will bringit.
There's some research sayingthat you can get up to 50 tons

(43:38):
per hectare sequestered into thesoil while it still has to be
proven.
But carbon one ton of carbon iscurrently traded on the market
for around $40 to $70.
It's kind of still a startingindustry so, but it's in that
range.
So imagine as a farmer you canadd $40 per ton and if you're

(44:02):
doing 50 tons it's an extra.
Help me out here.
What is it an extra?
$40 20 yeah, an extra $2000 thatyou earn per hectare per year.
I'll tell you what farmers areyou earning today.
Their profits margin today isless than $2000 a year, most for

(44:27):
most farmers way less yep.
So it's gonna revolutionize theway we farm and obviously 50 is
in the high range.
And this is specifically for atype of tree actually it's the
name of our company, paolonia.
It's a type of tree that it'scalled the oxy tree, and this

(44:47):
tree is like in the class ofphotosynthesis.
It is the best it's, it'salways the first because it's it
.
For some reason, it has anability to grow extremely fast
and obviously when it growsfaster it can capture more
carbon.
So I'm looking into that aswell, to to start plantations of

(45:11):
these type of trees.
But even if you want to growfood, farmers will be rewarded
for that.

Isn't that interesting, it seems yeah, it
seems like a really interestingway to sort of subsidize the,
the innovative shift, as theywould need to be right anytime
you're introducing a newtechnology.
Generally, it's inefficient inthe beginning, so it needs to be
subsidized.
So, yeah, that's a reallyclever way to do it and also
very encouraging.

(45:38):
You said something earlierwhich I've never thought of
before, which is harvestingsunlight, which is like I've
I've been interested in sort ofsoil quality for a few years now
, very passively, but I've neverthought about the idea of
harvesting sunlight and I'vealways just thought, well, if
you have healthier soil, that'sjust better, because soil just
absorbs carbon somehow.

(45:59):
But I've never thought aboutthe need for there to be some
sort of probably green greenspace or something on top that's
actually grabbing the sunlightand then that's sort of where
the sequestering of carbon comesfrom.
So I don't know.
It was something you said andlike, I've just never had
anything click like that before.

(46:19):
So maybe people that arelistening and you've seen farms
like I know there's a fairamount of people listening in
New Jersey, where I grew up, wegrew up in a very farm-heavy
area but you know a lot of corn,like a lot of vegetables.
New Jersey is actually a great.
It's called the garden state,so there's a lot of a lot of
farming and vegetable growingthere, but you would see

(46:41):
throughout the year just bigempty open fields.
And then we're sure it's wayworse in the Midwest where it's
all monocropped.
But just to kind of have that,that frame of thinking, what
else can and possibly should begrowing here symbiotically for
the non-growing season, to sortof harvest sunlight throughout
the rest of the year and sort ofreplenish the soil?

(47:02):
That was a really helpful termyou used.

Yeah, and this actually just to jump on there.
But this actually erases theneed for chemical fertilizers
because the plants are puttingit into the soil and the next
crop can use that because itdigests into the soil.

Is that makes sense.
And then the other thing yousaid yeah, the other thing when
you're giving the example of thepumpkins was really interesting
, of whatever the ground coverwas prior to that sort of the
roots, sort of like pre-digging.
It's like pre-drilling a hole.
It's just way easier for themto navigate and it's not having
to struggle and fight to getthrough like one really tough,

(47:41):
dense sort of depleted soil ormore dirt than soil really, but
then the soil is much morebeneficial.
Can you go on to speak aboutthe nutrient benefits of this
type of farming?

Yes, I think this will blow the mind of your
listeners because it's morerelated to health.
Obviously.
Now we've talked about all ofthe other benefits that this way
of farming we didn't even touchupon what it will do for us
humans.
Now I'll tell the story.
Well, it's not a story, it's afact.
There are oranges out therethat are being produced and that

(48:18):
have no vitamin C.
Now tell me why you buy or mostpeople buy oranges in winter is
because we want to have morevitamin C, right?
So that is crazy.
So if we now farm in thisspecific way, we'll actually

(48:39):
have we'll have back orangesthat do have huge quantities of
vitamin C.
And I'll tell you something moreinteresting, even that I heard
about.
There's a new technology thatit should be coming out soon and
it will probably, while theability is that it's just, it
can be just part of our iPhones.
It's a scan that will measurethe nutrient density of fruits

(49:04):
and vegetables and any food, andthe way it kind of works is
that food that is higher innutrient density vibrates at a
way higher frequency.
So if you have a machine thatcan or not a machine, but a
scanner on your phone that candetect the frequencies, you can

(49:26):
actually already define if it'sgoing to be higher nutrient
density or not.
So that's something I'm veryhopeful and curious about,
because imagine now we asconsumers, we go to the
supermarket and we can actuallyscan the food and it's like, oh,
this is an orange and itdoesn't have vitamin C.
Why the hell would I pay moneyfor it, even if it's super cheap

(49:48):
, why would I even buy it right?
So that's something interestingthat I'm very hopeful about.
And yeah, just to again to tieit back to where we started,
with the whole idea of farmingbeing something that we have

(50:08):
enough food for the whole planet, or for certain areas here
specifically in in Europe.
But it's the same story in theUS that, by focusing on quantity
, the whole nutrient density isnot considered.
So now we're growing hugeamount of food, but it's
actually doesn't have any or ithas very low nutrients, and it

(50:30):
actually is probably the maincause for most of our more
modern diseases all kinds ofcancers, obesity.
All these things are related tohow the food is produced.
Now, if the nutrient densitywould be way higher, we wouldn't
even have to eat that much ofthe same food, because it would

(50:54):
be packed with way more vitamins, minerals, all, even proteins,
everything that we need.
So again, if we can quantifythat, we can inform consumers to
say, like, even if that productis cheaper, it's not healthier
and it's not going to give youthe nutrients that you need.

(51:15):
Just buy a little bit less andbecause of the higher quality,
it's going to provide you withway better things.
And then this is where you comein, that the food that we eat
is really how, who we are, ifthat makes sense.

I'm glad you brought up oranges as an example
, because I had read somethingmaybe three months ago I thought
it was hyperbole, saying thatyou would need to eat eight
oranges today to get theequivalent sort of nutrient
density of an orange in like the1960s or something like that.
But it's probably notexaggerated if there are in fact
oranges being produced with novitamin C, which is usually when

(51:56):
you think of what's a goodfruit for vitamin C, you think
of oranges.
So maybe that wasn't hyperbole.
And then the other thing Iwanted to mention.
That is a very interestingtechnology about the frequency
of foods.
I never understand the stuff,maybe as well as I want to, but,
like Nicholas Tesla says, ifyou want to understand the
secrets of the universe, thinkin terms of frequency and

(52:19):
vibration.
So when you said frequency, I'mlike there's probably something
to that.
Maybe in a few years I'llunderstand it better, but it
sounds like one of those thingsthat is just very in harmony
with nature, if you will.

Yeah, definitely, even if I can jump
in there.
This is again how nature works.
It's part of one of the laws,is what?
Well, it's also in my book.
One of the laws is the law ofvibration, and it's proven in
nature that if a plant becomessick, because of whatever reason
, that plant will also vibrateon a lower frequency and this,

(52:58):
in terms, will attract insectsto kill it.
Because that's how nature worksit kind of decomposes and it
gets rid of what it doesn't need.
So that's how insects actuallyget attracted to plants.
Now let's tie it back to modernindustrial agriculture.
Most of the plants are nothealthy, so all of these farmers

(53:22):
that are doing it in that wayare faced with a lot of insect
problems.
Now they use chemicals,obviously, to get rid of it, but
it's like it's the flying wheelin the wrong direction.
If your plants are notperforming well, they're going
to be eaten by a lot of insects,and that's just how nature

(53:43):
works.
You can try and work against it.
You've done it for 60, somewhat60 years, probably more, but
it's not an endless treat.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like that.
You know again, just kind ofgoing in, especially if you're
looking at long enough timelineslike 60 years, is just a tiny
blip, there's nothing.

So clearly it's not sustainable for a long
period of time.
It's a blink of an eye in theuniverse.

Yeah, like with enough manpower and resources
you can do it, and I thinkthat's what we've done.
We just like we're just goingto throw manpower and technology
and resources at this and youknow it's worked up until up
until it doesn't.
So I'm glad there is a shiftaway from that.
I kind of want to talk aboutclimate change sustainability
more from like an architecturalstandpoint, because I live in

(54:33):
Phoenix, Scottsdale, so it'salready a very hot place, right.
So this is going to have to beone of the first places that's
really taking steps to mitigateor sort of like build cities for
the future.
So I'm not sure how you, howyou want to take this, but I
know you have expertise inlandscape design and I'm just

(54:55):
kind of curious how you think,how you think cities of the
future are going to have to bedesigned or redeveloped to deal
with warmer climates and notjust building like big concrete
buildings everywhere.

Yeah, that's a really good question, and I
think the greenery that we cangrow in the cities will have, or
has already, a huge impact onthe climate, just a local
environment, not even on aglobal perspective, but there's
research about streets withwidth and without trees, the

(55:28):
temperature difference in theheat of summer, it's like, can
be 20 degrees Celsius, and not20, but 15, 10 degrees Celsius.
That already has a huge impact.
So it's just it kind of justmakes it logical to focus on
green infrastructure in cities,and I know that you are from an

(55:52):
environment that's very arid andvery difficult, but even in
those environments you can, withvery low water input, you can
actually grow plants that aremore adapted to these difficult
circumstances and still havelike a soil coverage.
Right.

Yeah, I had somebody on here.
I think when this comes outit'll be two or three episodes
before you.
His website is urbanfarmcom andhe grew, he ran a farm, an
urban farm on a third of an acrehere in Phoenix for like 30
years.
Now he lives in Asheville buthe still sort of does seminars
out here because he had such abig following for so long.

(56:32):
But it was incredible to hearhow?

Is he the guy from the movie, wasn't he in a
quite known documentary?

He might have been.
His name is Greg Peterson.
Yeah, I think I heard about him, yeah, okay, yeah, it's funny
that you would have heard of himin sort of in these circles.
But it was amazing how, on sucha small plot of land and in
such an arid environment, hegoes oh, there's plenty of
things that prefer to grow outhere, and it was just really
eye-opening to see how much youcan grow in sort of an

(57:03):
environment like this.
And he said because I had mybasically entire plot of land so
well organized from sort of alandscape architecture
standpoint, he goes it helpedwith water capture keeping, like
cooling my house, he goes hejust had so much greenery and
then he also had so many fruitsand vegetables that were grown

(57:23):
there throughout the year.
It was very encouraging, yeahexactly.

He's just he's doing the right things for the
soil and how to grow the plants,and probably with a minimal
water supply system.
You, you, that's the thing,right, that if you wouldn't, if
you want to grow your own gardenand you're just like thinking
like, oh, I just have to waterit all the time, but you don't
care about how to improve thesoil, how to treat the soil,

(57:52):
what like how to make compost,even then it's not going to work
.
All your plants are just goingto die, especially in your
environment.
So it's super important to get,like, the right guidance and
the knowledge of, and followingthe people that have already
done a lot of research around it.
And again, jumping on the onthe back of, on the shoulders of

(58:17):
the giants, right?

Yeah, exactly no, it was.
He provided a lot of reallygood resources, so hopefully
people will check those out ifyou're interested in sort of at
least the desert, the desertgrowing needs, also because I
live like in a condo.
So my main question was like,how do I start growing stuff on
a balcony?
He goes oh, you can definitelydo it.
He's like you don't need.
He's like you don't need a lotof space necessarily.

(58:41):
Yeah, that's right.
Can you talk more about likebusiness in the future?
Because I think before I don'tthink we were recording it, but
I think you're in such a goodspace given what you do, because
there's going to be a need to.
I think, even from a landscapedesign perspective here in
Arizona we have a lot ofnon-native species just to make

(59:02):
things look better around here,but you get sort of because we
brought in a lot of non-nativespecies.
This is the first time in mylife I've ever had allergies,
but a ton of people here haveallergies because there's a
bunch of stuff growing here thatshouldn't be Really.
So I think there's going to bea need to shift back to more
native species, and not justhere but anywhere we're living.

(59:22):
So can you just talk about,like what the future sort of
landscape design is going tolook like, and I think it's also
just going to be.
I think that that sector isgoing to grow so enormously over
the next 20 or 30 years becausethere's such a need for
utilizing the Earth's resourcesin a much more efficient manner.

Yeah, that's a good question and I think it's
just going to become inevitable,right?
Like if, for your home or foryour property or for your city,
you can get an expert in, thatwill make the city way more
livable, way more attractive, itwill attract more investors, it

(01:00:04):
will become more sustainable onthe long run.
So in that way it's just.
I mean, we can talk about thefuture, but it's already
happening.
Today I see a lot of my clientsthat they just don't have the
knowledge of how to do it.
Like I have a masterclass whereI teach people how they can

(01:00:26):
design, create and maintaintheir own garden, and we talked
about a couple of things itdives into the soil more in
depth as well, but then also howto use which plants.
And all this knowledge andpeople are amazed by it because
there is also a huge audiencethat wants to learn it
themselves.
And then, talking about thefuture, actually, yesterday I

(01:00:49):
was in an AI course.
I took a two-day artificialintelligence course, because
this industry is going tocompletely shift how our world
will look, not even in 10 years,probably not even in five years
, probably in less than threeyears and in fact what it will
do, I think, is.
It will erase a lot of the jobson our planet that nobody likes

(01:01:12):
to do, like just people doingnine to five jobs, to kind of be
a corporate slave.
And all of these jobs are underpressure, I think in the next,
very soon.
So I'm very in that way.
I'm actually very hopeful aboutit, because this will open up a
whole new world that we canactually start focusing on

(01:01:33):
things that we like doing.
Why not become a gardener?
Or why not learn aboutgardening?
Or why not create a wholecommunity of gardeners that know
how to do it good for ourplanet?
And in fact, it will be theonly way, because our climate is
only going to become more rough.
It's like the damage that'sbeen done over the last 60 years

(01:01:56):
and in fact, it goes back tothe beginning of the climate
change that we're facing today.
Many people say, oh, it'sbecause of the industries and
everything, but it actually goesway back.
It goes to the hunter-gatherersthat started to change the
landscape because they werehunting and gathering and then
they started farming and thiswas where, already, the big

(01:02:18):
impact changed.
Like in the Roman times, theycut down half, more than half,
of the forests in Europe.
So we shouldn't just.
Well, we don't have to blameanybody, but it goes way back.
But the point that I'm tryingto make here is that, with AI,
that is going to revolutionizeour industry, and probably

(01:02:40):
robots as well it's going toopen a whole new world of people
to do a job that they mightactually like, and I think one
of which can be farminggardening.
So I see a lot of potential forthat in the future People
learning it themselves andfarmers becoming more proficient
in doing it in harmony withnature.

Parker Condit (01:03:02):
Yeah, I think there's something incredibly
therapeutic about working withyour hands with soil, with dirt,
and then also something relatedto food, just so innate to our
nature.
I think for a lot of peoplethat'd be a very gratifying
thing.
I think the concern is thatgardening takes a lot of time

(01:03:22):
and there can be failureinvolved in it early on, as you
found out.
When you're like I'm just goingto go plant seeds everywhere
and come back and it's going tobe, I'm going to have my bounty
of food, and it was not the case.
So I think a lot of people canhave been discouraged up until
this point.
Can you share a little bit moreabout what your masterclass
involves, Just to give people anidea of the step by step how

(01:03:45):
you take people through that?

Matthieu Mehuys (01:03:47):
Yeah, definitely, and I really like
what you said is like it clickedfor me that people don't have
to go through my whole lifetimeof learning and experiencing all
these wins and failures andwins and failures, because
that's what I've been goingthrough and I've gathered
massive amounts of information.

(01:04:08):
So I've boiled this down nowinto a masterclass where it's
completely online and you canlearn how to do everything
exactly to build that dreamgarden, like that garden that
you've always dreamt of, and infact, that's the name of the
program it's how to create thegarden of your dreams

(01:04:29):
masterclass.
So it really dives into that theurge of people to become
gardeners because it's somethingmagical that's intrinsically
part of our being human to havea connection with nature.
Gardens are the best way tohave a direct connection with
nature and, as well, what youbrought up the fact that if you

(01:04:53):
put your hands into the soil, itelevates your mood, and it's
not just the fact that you'redoing something physical.
There's even research that'sproven now that all of these
microorganisms that I wastalking about earlier, that if
you put your hands into the soil, these microorganisms will get

(01:05:13):
the healthy ones that you wantin your garden.
You're going to absorb them inyour own body and they're going
to improve your gut health andyour brain health, because I
told that to you that themicroorganisms in our soil are
actually very similar, or someare exactly the same as in our
own gut.
So now, if you become agardener, it will just transform

(01:05:34):
your whole life in many aspects, and that's what you learn in
this program.

It sounds like a great program.
I did a lot of landscaping whenI was growing up.
Growing up in that part of NewJersey, like I mentioned, you
just end up working on farmsdoing landscaping and I always
thought I was so happy at thattime and I just so thoroughly
enjoyed it.
And there's probably somethingto be said for the lack of
stress that a 17-year-old has ingeneral.

(01:06:01):
But, I've also just been likeevery job I've had since then
I've been like sort of chasingthat be like.
When am I going to be able tofeel this again?
And I think there is just thisinnate part of just working with
nature that you probably can'tfind unless you're working with
nature in some other field.
So I'd highly encourage people,if you have any time to do it,

(01:06:23):
to go to a community garden.
Start your own garden, are you?
Do you think community gardensare going to become much more
prominent?

as we move forward.
I definitely believe that,especially in the urban or peri,
in the surrounding of biggercities and even in cities,
because if you're living in acity and you choose to live in a
city, which it does have a lotof advantages you have
everything closed, you live in avibrant environment, but the

(01:06:53):
access to greenery, the surfaces, are just way smaller.
So if you now live in anapartment and you have that urge
to work on a garden or on theland or grow your own food, you
can go out to these communitygardens, even have.
I've heard there's even waysyou can just get a square meter

(01:07:13):
which is like what is that?
Nine square foot or something.
So you can start with that andyou'll be amazed how much food
you can grow on such a smallsurface.
Or if you just say, I just likelooking at something beautiful,
you can grow flowers.
So I see a lot of potential inthat.
In fact, I wrote my masterthesis about that, specifically

(01:07:36):
in the area of South Africa andCape Town, because the way I
looked at it is that what we tryto investigate is that, with
the racial segregation thathappened there and obviously
apartheid is done, but it'sstill deeply, it's still how to
say it in the correct way.
There's still a lot of issuesaround, well, a lot of racial

(01:08:01):
issues in South Africa and otherbigger issues, obviously, and
the way we looked at it is thatcommunity gardens could actually
be a way to empower the localcommunities to learn a skill of
growing their own food, to growhealthy food, to connect with
other people, that it can becomelike a meeting point to share
ideas, to that it's somethingthat has incredible power of

(01:08:28):
changing environments.
It's like working together witha local group on a mutual goal.

Yeah, good, I'm glad to hear that.
Do you ever do consulting forlocal governments?

Yes, we do that .
At this stage we don't have anylocal government projects.
I'm happy to work with localgovernments, but I see that it
can be a kind of a slowerprocess.
So I love to work with privateclients because it's just faster
.

Yeah, they make a decision, then you just do it.

Yeah, exactly, we do work with developers as
well.
It's not public but it'ssemi-public.
So I'm working now on a hugerooftop garden.
We've filed the buildingpermission.
It's just been accepted, sowe're going to work more on the
execution planning.

(01:09:24):
This is like still half of mywork is still related to
one-on-one clients that we dothe whole design process for
them, because obviously there'sa group of people that want to
do it themselves, but thenthere's another group of people
that they don't have the time,they have busy jobs and they

(01:09:44):
just want to have it look likethey want to have it done for
them.
So it's kind of the well, itstarted to be four pillars in
the business.
Now.
The masterclass I have alsomasterclass for farmers.
They have one-on-one gardeningclients and yeah, that's about
it.
I think it's busy these days.

Okay, yeah, now I can imagine that was the other
thing I wanted to ask Do you doconsulting for farmers?
Because I'm sure a lot of thisis it's passed down sort of
generationally of so my dad didit, you get handed the farm, so
I do it.
So it can be a lot.
It sounds like to sort of shiftthe farming operations from

(01:10:27):
traditional farming toregenerative.
Do you do consulting for, like,independent farms as well?

Yes, definitely so, same as with my garden
clients, I have developed amasterclass.
This masterclass is calledFarms of Eden, because my goal
is to create a huge communityall across the world of farmers
that decide to make a change inthe world and decide to take

(01:10:53):
action to change the way theirfarm is structured, that they
can build something that isprofitable, that they can be
proud of, that they don't haveto shy away of using bad
chemicals, that they can buildsomething for the next
generations to come.
So that's something that we'vebeen getting a lot of success

(01:11:16):
with as well.
And, yeah, it's a lot of fun tobe in these different fields
because, in the end of the day,they are all linked to these
universal laws that I discuss inmy book.
What?

applies in the garden is sorry say again.
When's your book going to comeout?

It's going to be out very soon.
I just was talking to mypublisher a couple weeks ago.
In Canada we're finishing upall the drafts and everything,
so it's going to be out, I wantto say, in the next two months
let's see if that works.

Okay, we could probably coordinate this to come
out right around the booklaunch, if you want.

Oh yeah, that'd be amazing.

Okay, cool.
Yeah, I'd like to hear a littlebit more about it as well.
We've covered a lot today.
Is there anything else that youwant to share before, kind of
wrapping this up?

Well, what I do want to offer to your audience.
If somebody feels connected towhat I've explained and also is
like this is something that Italk about.
But all of my clients areaction takers.
They're committed, they want tomake change.
So if this relates to anybodywho is listening here, I want to

(01:12:34):
offer them to jump on a free 30minute consulting call with me
so in those 30 minutes we canlook at their project and look
what the bigger problems are andhow we can actually solve them.
So this is something that Iwant to offer to your audience
here, that's great.

I really appreciate that.
Anyone listening.
Please do take advantage ofthat.
I think this would be, matthew,be a great resource for you.

Yeah, we can share a Calendly link and then
you can find all the detailsthere.

Awesome.
Yeah, we'll definitely linkthat in the description.
So do you have a closingmessage you'd like to leave with
everyone before I let you go?
That's a good question.

Well, I think it's just that if people feel
the urge or a tendency to takeaction in doing something that
is good for their localenvironment and for our planet,
then they should do that inwhatever ways possible.
So I really encourage people togo into this field of what we

(01:13:38):
can call let's call it greenarchitecture, infrastructure
farming.
There's a lot of ways ofputting a name on it, but if you
feel the urge to go into thatfield, definitely do it, because
it's the future.
I think that it's the onlything that will be profitable in
the future.

(01:13:59):
Like, I'm 100% behind the ideathat if you don't consider these
aspects, you will be out ofbusiness.
So I heavily encourage peopleto do something good for our
planet and do well in business,and in fact, that's my podcast
that's going to well.
By the time this comes out, thepodcast will be out as well.

(01:14:19):
So it's called the regenerativedesign podcast and I interview
world leading authorities thatare doing something great for
our planet and are doing good inbusiness.
Because what I hear far toooften is that people think, oh,
if we do something good for ourplanet, it's not going to be
profitable, but I'm a strongbeliever that it's the exact

(01:14:39):
opposite, because if it's notgoing to be good for our planet
and good for business, so beingprofitable, then it's not
sustainable.
That's my vision on that, and Ithink I want to end with that
note.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up.
We're definitely going to linkto your podcast and the show
notes as well.
And, yeah, that's again.
A lot of this has been reallyencouraging.
I think the common themethroughout this conversation was
working in harmony with nature.
So I think even in businessthat's possible and I'm glad
you're sort of highlighting thepath forward with that and
speaking with people who arebeing innovators in that space

(01:15:16):
and running profitablebusinesses and doing it
sustainably and doing it inharmony with nature.
So I think that's probably agood way to conclude this
episode.
Matthieu, this is a lot of funand I really appreciate you kind
of sharing everything you did.
This is probably very differentfrom a lot of the episodes I've
done, so anyone who's stilllistening at this point
hopefully you've enjoyed sort ofthis deep dive into soil,

(01:15:38):
regenerative farming and, Ithink, what is going to be the
future of business andagriculture as we go forward.

Awesome Parker.
Thank you very much forbringing me on the show.
You're a great host and hope tobe here back someday.

Yeah, I'd love to have you on for a round two
once we get this out.
Let everyone digest it, collectsome questions and do another
episode.
I think that'd be really great.

Awesome, I'll have more exciting news to share
.
Great.

Thanks so much, hey everyone.
That's all for today's show.
I want to thank you so much forstopping by and watching,
especially if you've made it allthe way to this point.
If you'd like to be notifiedwhen new episodes are going to
be released, feel free tosubscribe and make sure you hit
the bell button as well.
To learn more about today'sguest, feel free to look in the
description.
You can also visit the podcastwebsite, which is
exploringhealthpodcastcom.

(01:16:28):
That website will also belinked in the description.
As always, likes, shares,comments, are a huge help to me
and to this channel and to theshow.
So any of that you can do Iwould really appreciate.
And again, thank you so muchfor watching and I'll see you
next time.

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