Men's Emotional Health, Coaching, and Societal Growth with Marc Paisant

Episode Transcript
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Parker Condit (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to Exploring Health
Macro to Micro.
I'm your host, Parker Condit.
In the show, I interview healthand wellness experts around
topics like sleep, exercise,nutrition, stress management,
mental health and much more.
So by the end of each episode,you'll have concrete, tangible
advice that you can startimplementing today to start
living a healthier life, eitherfor yourself or for your loved

(00:21):
ones.
And that's the microside of theshow.
The macro side of the show isdiscussing and having
conversations around largersystemic issues that can
contribute to health outcomes.
An example of that is examininghow the term mental health
awareness has been around forover 100 years and yet we're
still dealing with mental healthstigma in today's society.
My guest today is Marc Paisant.

(00:42):
Marc is a certified personaltrainer and the host of the
relatively normal podcast andthe 6am Run Club podcast.
Beyond that,Marc uses hisplatform and influence to show
people that they're never alone,to be a mental health advocate
and what no one else isavailable to be the person that
people can reach out to if theyneed to be heard.
We ended up discussing our earlyexperiences in therapy and how

(01:04):
we both kind of missed the point, but are glad we started when
we did, why so many men stillstruggle with mental health
today, using physical health asa way to influence mental health
and how to use evidence toreframe your thinking for a more
positive outlook.
A lot of this conversation endsup circling around or is
possibly coming through the lensof sport or athletics, because

(01:24):
that's a mutual part of our past, but it's much more about
mental health and helping peoplefind themselves.
Marc was a great guest and hewas somebody that I connected
with almost immediately, andthis ended up feeling like one
of the realest shows I'verecorded to date for lack of a
better term and I think thatkind of shines through in the
conversation.
So, without further ado, here'smy conversation with Mark

(01:46):
Paisant.
Mark, thanks so much for beinghere.
I'm just gonna start with asoftball question why is men's
mental health still such anissue in this country?

Marc Paisant (02:00):
It.
Well, I appreciate thisquestion, I appreciate being on
here and this is a question I'dlove to talk about, or I should
say a topic I love to talk about, because I think there is this,
or there has been for probablyat least my generation, probably
not the generation before me,but we're starting to see just

(02:23):
the.
I mean, it's obvious thatgender roles are becoming fluid,
like that is.
That's not an opinion, it'sjust fact.
And I think it's leaving a lotof people kind of confused.
And when you get to a pointwhere you know men are starting
to I don't wanna say relinquishour, that seems so like dark

(02:49):
ages and old times.
I don't wanna say that.
But there is a like when youhave, when you have a group of
people who have been thedecision makers and you have a
group of people who have beenkind of the power players for so
long, the ones that have beenthe stoic leaders, the ones that
have basically their word goesand there's been a power shift.
And now it's like wait a second, we don't have to do everything

(03:15):
.
That's good.
But also it's like well, whatelse?
What else can I do?
What's my place?
And I think a lot of men rightnow including myself when I was
younger, in my younger adultyears are kind of trying to
figure out, like, okay, what amI allowed to do now?

(03:35):
What are the things that I cando?
That wait, I can focus on myhappiness.
And then there comes the wholething about okay, well, what
does it mean to be a man Like?
What does it mean to bemasculine Like?
What do we have to define thosethings?
So we get into this kind offluid place that we're in this
kind of changing era and a lotof men don't feel supported Like

(04:01):
.
A lot of men want to get out ofthe.
What I say goes I have to takecare of everything, I have to
fix every problem.
It's like no, you don't have todo that anymore.
That comes with like some sortof feeling behind it.
I'm not telling you how to feel, but anytime something happens

(04:22):
like that, there's a feelingthat comes from it and a lot of
men have those feelings, but alot of men don't know how to
help other men out.
Now it's very obvious, I think,that we live in a society where
it's very common and easy for awoman to go through a breakup,

(04:43):
have something bad happen in herlife, and then it's obvious
that there's gonna be supportfor her, especially from the
women that are close to her inher life.
It's almost been taughtsympathy has almost been taught
to women, and exclusively towomen.
For generations before us, menweren't taught those loving
touches, those warm embraces,those empathetic listening

(05:07):
skills, and now it's starting toaffect how men talk to each
other, how men feel aboutthemselves, and what I'm trying
to do is basically tell men it'sokay, like, it's okay, that's
it.
Like.
If you wanna feel bad, feel badIf you wanna tell your brother

(05:29):
that you love him, tell him youlove him.
Like, if you want to reach outand say you know what, I'm not
hanging out over here tonight.
I'm gonna go and just spendsome time with my buddy who just
got passed over promotion orhis kid just went off to college
and he's not in a goodheadspace.
Like that seems weird saying itout loud to a lot of people,

(05:54):
but that's why I do what I do,yeah.

I think these conversations are really
important and there's a lot ofthreads to pull at from that
first answer that you just gave.
I wanna get back to genderroles at some point but do you
think, almost from cause, Idon't know this do you think
historically, where the genderroles were more clearly defined
you say we're sort of coming outof this period it's becoming

(06:19):
more fluid now when gender roleswere more clearly defined.
Was men's mental health betterthen, or was there just like a
more clear understanding of whatthey were supposed to do?
But there were still the sameissues that were going on, which
is still lack of being able toconnect with a man and having
that vulnerability between men.
Did that always exist?

(06:39):
But there was just lessambiguity around other parts of
their lives?

That is such a good question and such a good
perspective on it, because if wetake something that's totally
different than this, if we takethe rate of autism in children
right now, like the rate isgoing up, but it's not just
because more kids are gettingautism because the test has
changed.
Like we can notice it now in abigger sub, the bigger group of

(07:08):
kids Like has it been going upon its own?
Listen, I'm a doctor or asocial scientist, so I don't
know the data.
I should know it but the thingis that mental health and mental
stressors and mental triggershave always been something that
has happened as long as peoplehave had cognitive thought.
That's always been there.

(07:29):
The thing about it is that thegenerations before us my father,
his father, you know, whereveryou, however long you go back in
time is like a man wasn'tallowed to express himself, and
I know people may hear that andbe like ah, that's really
general to say that and youdon't know all that.

(07:50):
Like here.
It is like if you go back andask your father, your
grandfather, if they're stillalive, like hey, who did you
talk to about your feelings?
Like, what answer do you thinkyou're gonna get?
So you know, I'm listening to abook right now on kind of the

(08:10):
history of the family dynamic inAmerica, and it was just known
that men went to work, men camehome, men were the patriarch,
men made the rules and did itall over again.
It wasn't men went to work,felt stressed, you know, had to

(08:33):
decompress, you know, went to,you know, the spa after work and
then came home and had a goodconversation with his wife,
hugged his kids, like went andno, it wasn't all that.
It was very rigid and strict inwhat a man's life was.
Am I judging that?
No, I'm definitely not doingthat.
However, what we're seeing nowis that people are finally

(08:55):
starting to talk about it.
There are plenty of men whosuffered in silence for so long,
and women have known this.
A lot of women have tried tomake men open up.
What's the biggest thing wehear about relations?
All the time?
Like he doesn't communicatewith me, like there's a reason,
like that, that's not justsomething that's popped up in a

(09:17):
book back in the 1940s and I waslike all women just say it now.
No, that's a real thing and wecan get into discussion on the
reasons for it.
Is it because society?
Is it because the pressure tobe a man around like we can get
in all kinds of reasons about it, but the fact of the matter is
that men in society haven't beenable to really talk about it,

(09:42):
and now we're starting to seewhat that effect has had on an
entire generation of men.

Yeah, real quickly.
What is that book that you'rereading, If you?

have any of it?
Oh, I knew you were gonna askme.
It is a here we go got it righthere and it's kind of.
I'll be honest with you, itmight be a little dry for some
people.

Is it pretty clinical.

Yeah, but the way we never were.
And it is, let's see, here byStephanie Coontz, coo, ntc, and
it basically it's a good book.
It kind of it's eye-opening onlike people will say things like
oh I miss the old days of.
This is what the family was andwe never did this in our

(10:29):
families.
And she kind of breaks it downto like what actually was
happening and how we have veryselective memories when it comes
to like the family in this, inthis society we live in.

Sure that sounds like a great book, one of the
things I wanna kind of dig into,and it's fine just to give your
personal experience on this oryour personal opinion.
But now that we are kind of inthis very transitional period
from a family dynamic, genderrole position, obviously there's
gonna be a lot of likecollateral damage with that,

(11:01):
while people and society andculturally we figure all of this
out.
But what do you see as theopportunity?
Right Cause anytime there'schange, there's huge opportunity
to become more happy, loving,caring, empathetic.
So where do you see theopportunity in this situation?

And I know people go away from topics like this,
but I really love it becauseI'll lay it out like this Like I
grew up in a household thatfrom the outside looking in,
you're like it's just a theAmerican dream type household
Father, mother, I have a twinbrother and an older sister.
We lived in the suburbs ofAtlanta.
The good thing is that mybrother, myself and my sister

(11:48):
were basically the first groupof kids in our family lineage
that my parents had.
All kids graduate from college.
So think about that Like it'sone of those things that's like
you look at and you're like man.
That's the American dream.
That's awesome.
My mother didn't have a collegedegree.
My dad very smart man, doublemajor, loyola in Louisiana.

(12:13):
I think math and economics likemy dad's brilliant mathematical
, like economical man.
But my brother and I had duties.
We had chores.
It wasn't up to the women inthe house to clean up after us.
I think every person my ageknows once you heard the music

(12:35):
on Saturday mornings you're likehere we go, where's the vacuum,
where's the dust?
Michael and I had to do that.
Of course we had mowing thegrass and breaking leaves and
things like that.
All that stuck with me.
My dad was doing the same thing.
My dad would cook occasionally.

(12:56):
He would clean all the time.
He would do his duty and hewould coach us.
Looking back, it's like otherthan cooking most of the meals
which my mother did, it was kindof a mixed bag like who's doing
what.
I kind of took that with me Now.

(13:20):
I do most of the cooking in myhouse.
I do all the laundry, I do mostof the cleaning.
It's not something that I justhave to do it because my wife
doesn't do it.
No, it's like that's part of me, that's ingrained in me.
When you ask a question likethat, I think gender roles being

(13:44):
so fluid, it makes a lot ofpeople kind of scared and weary
and like where's this countrygoing?
I see it as like man.
This is a chance for people toactually be themselves and be
happy and not have to do thingsthat society has taught them.
Because when you think aboutsocietal norms, who creates them

(14:07):
?
We create them, society createsthem.
It's like, oh, it's a norm forus to do this.
Wait a second, why does it haveto be?
Why don't we just start todayand do it this way and make it a
norm for the next generation.
I'll be honest with you, I'm avery pragmatic thinker.
It just makes my brain happy.
I put everything in the littleboxes like oh, let's we?

(14:33):
Type of person.
That's like it hurts my armwhen I bend it this way.
Don't bend it that way.
But I think a lot of us, oncethat fear hits, of the unknown
or change or progress or processchanges, a lot of us are scared
.
And I have just never reallybeen scared of it, like I've

(14:59):
been a little cautious at somepoints.
But it's like, listen, I don'tthink I can grow as a person if
I stay in the same place or stayin the same mindset, like I'm
continually trying to grow and Ithink as a whole that's how we
should look at this.
And again, just my personalopinion.
You can disagree with me allyou want.

So you kind of described the dynamic that you
grew up in.
When did did you notice at somepoint growing out that that
wasn't the norm, maybe amongstfriends or other people that
were sort of in your life?

No, I never did.
I mean, the first time I didwas when I was married or as an
adult.
When it's like, no, we neverdid that in our house, it's like
, oh, we never.
It's like, really, I thoughteverybody did that.
Like you wash the dishes beforeyou put them in the dishwasher,
it's like, yeah, doesn'teverybody do that?
No, we just toss them in there.

(15:54):
I'm like, oh, and again, my dadwas the type of and he still is,
he's still I'm talking in pasttense my dad, he's still alive.
So he was the type of personthat made things seem like
normal, like we're going to washthese dishes until they're

(16:16):
clean enough to put away andthen we're going to put them in
the dishwasher.
And that's what we did everynight.
That's what, by the time I wasof age to be over the counter,
like my brother and I and mysister were doing that.
Like literally, we would cleanthese things to the point where
we could put them away, and evento the only time.
I noticed it is very specifictime.
My sister had two girlfriendssleep over and they woke up in

(16:39):
the morning and cleaned thebreakfast dishes and one of them
was like why are we cleaningthese twice and I didn't
register in my head.
Like it didn't register in myhead.
What do you mean?

Oh, that's a weird question.

That's a weird question, so, but I mean, you
know you grow up.
I am very thankful for thehousehold I grew up in with my
father strict, yes, of course hewas, because he loved us.
He was my mother, like was I amama's boy and like I kind of
went to her because she wasnicer to me of course.
But looking back, it was alljust normal.

(17:13):
It was never like, oh, we do itthis way, other people might do
a different way.
It wasn't that Like we nevercompared ourselves to others, it
was just us.

So you were saying that and I think this is
a very good point that there's alot of discomfort.
Many times things are movingaway from what is customary or
the norm, because it's unknownand people are really
uncomfortable and the unknown isincredibly scary.
But you said that you kind ofuse the idea or the motivation
of growth, as you're, as like adriving factor for you.

(17:45):
So is it just that your desirefor growth outweighs, like the
fear of the unknown, and is thatsomething you've like
quantified before?
Or how have you been able tomove yourself forward in a way
that's very productive, becausea lot of people know they need
to do these things, but theywill do every.
That's like whatprocrastination is right.

(18:07):
They'll do everything possibleto not do the uncomfortable
thing that they don't want to.
So how have you found ways toactually get yourself to take
action and grow in the way thatyou need to?

I literally was having this conversation with my
wife last night because she isnot a fan of change all the time
either and she likes her happylittle space to the side.
She's introverted, like I'm anextrovert.
She's introverted, so you canimagine like in the household
it's like I'm blaring you knowblasting music first thing in

(18:39):
the morning to get up and she'sjust like what is wrong with you
?
Like stop doing that.
But the answer to your questionis like I'm here today and
that's all I have to tell myself.
Like everything I've beenthrough in my life, every change
that I didn't want to gothrough, every process that I
fought against, every time Itold somebody, no, this isn't a

(19:00):
good idea, we shouldn't be doingthis.
Like I'm still here, like Istill made it this far.
And I look back and I think youknow, with a high functioning
brain, I triple guess, quadrupleguess everything.
I'm double checking everything,I'm making sure everything is
taken care of.
Then you get through it andyou're like that was easy.

(19:22):
Why did I do all that?
And so I've taken that, I'vetaken all of my experiences in
the past and said, if I havemade it this far and I've, I
haven't been the one making allthe decisions.
I haven't been the one sayingyes, I haven't been the one
that's gotten his way every time.
What does that mean?

(19:43):
And to me, that means thatwhatever change comes, whatever
things stay the same, whateverdecisions are made without me,
whatever opinions are had aboutme, whatever time.
You know that I just think thisisn't going to work out.
I still made it to today, sothat's literally all I.

(20:07):
I mean it might sound weird orfoolish or very simple to some
people, but that's literallywhat I would.
I tell myself.

I think it is very simple, but it think it's
very simple things that peopledo in the other direction as
well, like listening.
You've got a few voices in yourhead right.
One of them is a fear voice ora scared voice, and I think a
lot of times people are lettingthat voice sort of overcome and
overpower the conversation andthat's going to end up being the
direction that your life takes.

(20:35):
So, yeah, it is kind of simple,but it's.
It's a very powerful mindsetshift where you're basically
just looking at the positiveevidence that's been stacked in
your favor up until this point,and the evidence which is
overwhelming is that you made itto this point and you're still
here, versus everything else.
So it may be simple, but Ithink it's a very powerful

(20:57):
mindset way to frame yourmindset, if you will.
When did you first become awarethat mental health was a thing
Like?
When did you realize, oh, thisis something I need to care
about that?

So that's a good question because, looking back,
I can remember times as ateenager where I kind of felt
like I shouldn't feel this way,like I remember thinking why am
I so sad, like, why am I soanxious, like things like that.
But it wasn't until and I was Imean, college was my first kind

(21:37):
of dip into therapy and talkingto a college counselor.
But still, even after that, youknow, I went my freshman year
because I just I felt out ofplace and I just needed somebody
to talk to.
I thought once I was done withthose sessions, I was like fixed
, like I thought, okay, donewith those sessions I am, I'm

(21:57):
good now, nothing's gonna.
That's how I thought it worked.

I literally thought it worked.
It's like getting your car backfrom the mechanic.

I literally thought it was I'm like no guys,
I'm fine, and you know,graduating from college I had a
really fun and productive senioryear.
I was working full time, mademy best grades, I had a lot of
good like I was just stayingbusy.

(22:26):
And I think staying busy helpedin the way that I just couldn't
think about things Like I wasso busy my senior year that I
was like work, school hobby,sleep, work, school hobby.
Like it was just like okay.
And so once I got on my own andthe weight starts piling on and

(22:51):
I'm thinking to myself like whycan't I like stop eating, like
why can't I just man, I justdon't like the job I have and I
really don't like some of thepeople I hang out with, but I
can't stop and it's.
It wasn't really until probablymy mid 20s, maybe late 20s,

(23:11):
where mental issues, headspace,mindset, all that stuff kind of
started becoming evident to me.
But again I still thought itwas okay, let me go get a
therapist and few sessions I'mfixed again.
And apparently I wasn't likealone in this, like I've told

(23:37):
other people this and told sometherapists and they're like yeah
, people really think that way.
People think like just becauseyou go talk to somebody for six
weeks like all this anxietyyou've built up is gone, yeah,
and you know it wasn't until Ihad one you know, my therapist
that I had, for you know, over10 years off and on where he was
, I was kind of waiting for himto end the sessions.

(23:58):
I was just waiting, okay, hewasn't gonna come back again.
He wasn't gonna come back again.
And one time I was just like,okay, well, this is when I'm at
late 20s almost early, I think.
I was like I guess we're gonnabe ending these pretty soon.
And he kind of just looks at me.
He's like, why would you saythat?
I was like, well, the last guy.
He just kind of ended it.
And he's like, no, this is notsomething you just end Like.

(24:22):
This is we're working on you,finding your triggers and
building coping mechanisms andyou've had a lot of this stuff
since you were a child and ateenager.
And like we're not just gonnahelp you with this in a couple
of sessions.
He's like this is somethingthat you, we wanna build you
tools to use for life.
You wanna set your success forlife.

(24:43):
So it's gonna take some time.
And I was just like no one'sever explained it to me that way
?
Like no one ever.
And why, honestly?
Why would they Like?
I mean, it's just, no one everhas explained it that way and it
made so much sense, right whenhe said it, like everything,
like oh, I wasn't fixed afterthose sessions, like I still

(25:05):
have things I need.
This makes complete sense to me.
So that was kind of the momentI'm like okay, yeah, that this
makes sense and it's mentalhealth is something that you
have to.
I mean, we don't just go to thegym for six months and we're
totally good.
We have to go back Like thesame thing happens mentally.

Yeah, good, now I'm healthy for life.

Yes.

So it also may have been a case that you might
not have been in the right placeto hear that, cause you said
like it made sense at that time.

Yeah, good point.

Like maybe you got that message in slightly
different ways earlier.

Probably so right now, and you're just like nah
didn't hear it.

I wanna go back to what you said about kind of
your senior year, where you weredescribing everything that you
were doing from school, work,hobby, sleep.
Did you really enjoy thatsenior year?
Because the question I'm kindof dancing around is I think
it's very easy for people tohave a very full life that's

(26:07):
busy, and then that can slowlytransition to just busyness,
which feels the same, but it'snot the same as a full life.

I'm gonna answer this like I wanna answer your
question directly, cause, yes, Idid enjoy my senior year and
but I know what you're asking.
But there was a reason.
Like I got to my junior yearand I was a soccer player and I
played soccer at Clemson and Igot to a point where I didn't
love the game anymore.
I love my teammates.

(26:37):
I absolutely dislike nothingabout me wanting to go in the
field.
I didn't care about playing, Ijust didn't like the sport
anymore.
So I ended up quitting thebeginning of my senior year and
so I had this weight lift and noone got really upset.
Some of my teammates tried totalk me in and, coming back and

(26:58):
playing, my dad wasn't upset, noone was upset.
Everybody gave me the sameanswer like you do what makes
you.
You have one year left toschool.
You do what makes you happy,and so I.
Maybe, if that specific eventhadn't happened, I may have felt
differently, but immediately Ithought I had a purpose where I

(27:20):
wanted to graduate in four years, which now, like looking back,
is like why did you put yourselfthrough all that your senior
year?
You could have taken one moresemester if you wanted to.
But I can see why you asked thequestion, but because that
weight had been lifted and Iwasn't a soccer player anymore

(27:41):
and I got to be an actualcollege student.
I actually did enjoy my senioryear.

Yeah, no, cause that's what it sounded like.
It sounded like it was a fulllife at that point, like very
enjoyable, but busy.
And then it sounds like intoyour 20s it transitioned to.
I'm still busy, but you didn'thave sort of the meaning or
fulfillment I did.
You're absolutely right aboutthat, you're absolutely right.
So I actually had a verysimilar thing.
So I played soccer up untilcollege and then I stopped after

(28:09):
my sophomore year for a verysimilar reason.
I just you play soccer for solong, like did you start at a
really young age?
I started at six years old, yes, so it's like you've done like
almost a career's worth ofsoccer that you're like I'm kind
of over it and it's just likethe year round training it's a
grind.
I just got to a point where itwas like I just I really don't

(28:29):
enjoy this anymore.
So, yeah, that was a veryrelatable.

It was tough, like and I was a goalkeeper and like
I just remember thinking like Idon't want to like put my.
I had a broken foot.
I had a hyper extended thumb.
I had to get taped up.
I had something else which Imean I had too bad ankle surgery
I had.
I mean it was like I don't wantto put my body through this

(28:56):
anymore, like if I really lovethis don't get me wrong Like I'd
sacrificed another year.
But I was like I just nothingabout this is fun to me anymore.

Were you trying to play professionally at any
point?
No, no, I was.

No, I it.
I'll be honest with you, likeif I kept with it and, you know,
did the training, but I always,you know, and to this day, I
think, like I don't, I don'tlike that lifestyle.
Like I understand peoplegetting paid for a sport, like

(29:31):
there's one thing there'sgenerational wealth that a lot
of sports present to people.
But I'm like soccer at the timeand still is for a lot of these
players.
Not soccer, yeah, yeah, yeah,it's, it's, it's, you know.
I mean you didn't get paid muchand you know we had a few of
the guys who I played with GoProin the MLS and they'd play nine
months out of the year and theywouldn't get paid that much and

(29:56):
it would just be a brutalschedule.
And then they get like thethree months you still had to
train and it wasn't.
It was like it was a lifestylethat when people came back and
told me about it, I'm like no,absolutely no, absolutely not,
I'm not doing that.
It doesn't sound good at all.

Yeah, it's funny when people don't really aren't
familiar with like most peoplethink of, like the big four
professional sports, or they seeLino, messi or whatever, one of
the guys from my high schoolsoccer team.
He went to St John's and thengot drafted by the Red Bull at
the time I think they were justNew York Red Bull or whatever
they were at the time but hiscontract was for like $18,000

(30:36):
for the year.
Like he quit to become a chefand like chef's don't ball.
You know, just to give peoplelike a frame of reference.
You can be a professionalathlete and be yep, yes, really
struggling financially.
Yep, how did your upbringing asan athlete, did that affect
your relationship with mentalhealth?
Good or bad?

Ah, good or bad.
Well, so I'll paint a picturefor a lot of, because a lot of
the stuff like, I'll be honest,a lot of stuff we went through
as kids and athletes back in theday like it wouldn't fly today,
and for good reason.
For good reason it wouldn't fly.
I was a type of kid I was likeI was like an athlete that you

(31:21):
could yell at me because I wouldjust do what you like.
I just don't wanna get yelledat anymore.
Like if you yell at me, if youscream at me like Marc, do this,
then I'm doing it just so, justto appease you and make you
happy.
I would internalize everything,everything.
And once a coach was happy withme, I was on top of the world.

(31:43):
Once they were yelling andscreaming at me, it's like don't
show emotion, don't showemotion, he, you know.
And so I guess that's the badpart of it, because you know,
growing up and I remember Iplayed soccer in the 80s and 90s
where literally coaches didn'tchange for their players, like

(32:05):
that wasn't a thing back then.
It's like this is the way Icoach, so you're gonna have to
figure it out.
It's like that, looking backhere, like that probably not the
best way to coach a team.
But you know, but that's whatit was, that's how it happened
and you know, the parents at thetime thought it was character

(32:30):
building.
You know, when they saw a coachlight up their son or daughter
like, okay, they're gonna learn.
Now they're gonna learn likethis is.
And now we've kind of seen itflip a little bit and we're kind
of getting to a finally, kindof a happy medium, because
that's how the pendulum goes.
It always goes like really badone way and then really bad, and

(32:50):
then it kind of finds a happymedium and I've seen it work out
literally with my old collegeteam and with the coaches could
do or can't do.
But I had a coach once tell meand this is like the first year
I'm starting to play goalkeeperI may have been U11 and U12.
And in front of everybody onthe team he's like you know,

(33:13):
you're the worst goalkeeper inthe world, but we're gonna work
on that and everyone got a laughout of it and everyone's like
oh, coach, I hated that moment.
I absolutely hated that moment,cause I was trying my hardest
and I mean it's one of those,it's one of those coaches that

(33:36):
you wish you could forget.
But now that I coach, it's likeI'm making sure none of my kids
ever felt that way.
That I felt, because I can'teven imagine what goes to an
adult's head to say that I meanit's just I've never thought of
it from that perspective.
Yeah, like why do you tell thiskid whose voice is starting to

(34:00):
drop, who's starting to mature?
Like I lived to play sports,like I was like 12.
I didn't have a girlfriend, Ididn't have a phone, I had my
computer, I had school and I hadsports, yeah.
And you know, now, as I coach,it's like will I get on a kid?

(34:21):
Yeah, I'll get on a kid, butthere's always a why behind it.
There's always a why Like I'mnot just gonna raise my voice to
raise my voice, and I oftencatch myself because I really
don't want to raise my voice.
Like who I tell my daughter allthe time who's 10, who's really
in the sports.
I tell plenty of other girlsthat are like I'm like this game
means nothing.
This game means absolutelynothing.

(34:43):
Like if you can't go out andtry your hardest and have fun,
then don't play it.
But other than that, the gamemeans like no one's writing a
story how this game's gonnachange the world or how it's
gonna there's gonna be like it'sgonna end nuclear proliferation
.
You know what it's not.
You're not gonna make enoughmoney because of this game that

(35:05):
we're all gonna retire on.
Like just go out, have fun andwork hard.
That's it.
And I've gotten a lot of goodresponses for that, because when
you have that type of attitude,that fun and hard work go hand
in hand, like you get a lot ofpeople who want to work hard for

(35:25):
you.
So now I will say this I didhave a coach, through you know,
the high school years in club,who was just an amazing teacher,
like an amazing teacher.
He was a guy that knew the game,loved the game, loved coaching,
loved coaching kids and I meanhis name is Mike Cook and that's

(35:51):
the thing.
You remember the names of thecoaches that were like that and
he made me feel like I was thebest goalkeeper in the world.
Like he didn't say it, butthat's how he made me feel and I
learned so much exponentiallyjust through him.
So you know, it's one of thosethings where it's like it can be

(36:14):
to the coaches out there.
What you say and how you act infront of these kids goes a lot.
We remember, we remember Jesus.
30 years since that happenedand I remember.

Yeah, I'm glad you kind of got there on your
own.
One of my next questions isgoing to be if you had any
coaches that were like wildlypositively influential in your
life and it sounds like you did,and I think anyone who plays
for long enough.
Hopefully you have one of those, one or two of those coaches.
But yeah, you absolutelyremember them.
Yeah, they inspire love for thegame.
They teach you so much aboutlife and purpose and yeah,

(36:50):
there's so much positive thatcan come out of it.
Oh yeah, did you have anythingelse you wanted to add?
It looked like you had athought percolating.

It's just.
I mean, I looked two days ago Ihad my old high school JV coach
, who was the assistant varsitycoach, reach out to me because
his son is playing high schooland looking to go to college and
play.
And it was just like we talked,like we we'd been talking this

(37:19):
whole time for years, like itwas just so effortlessly
effortless, just to get back onthe phone with him and talk.
And he, he wasn't.
Like I said, he wasn't thevarsity coach, he was the
assistant, but he was the oneresponsible for warming me up
and goal.
He was the one responsible for,you know, making sure I was

(37:41):
taken care of.
And there was one particularinstance where I told him about
it with my senior year and youknow I had come off.
You know all region, all state,you know state championship I
was.
I was the best goalkeeper inthe state of Georgia and I had a
few games where I was off.
I was just off.
I don't know what.
I don't know what to tell you.

(38:03):
He took me to the side onepractice and is like you forgot
your basics.
Let's just sit here and work onyour basics real quick, like
catching slight all the.
And it wasn't that I'dforgotten them.
I just needed.
I needed that from him, likewithin 3045 minutes of that
little space.
Like I was good, I'm good, restof the season I was fine.

(38:25):
But it's because he noticed it.
He took the time out of thepractice.
He brought me.
He didn't call me out in frontof my teammates or in front of
the backup goal, he didn't doany of that.
He brought me to the side.
We did some drills that wehadn't done in probably two
years and I was good.
So, and his name is Tony Patino, like I mean, I you remember
these guys.

Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, that's a great story.
Yeah, it's just a greatdemonstration of like what, what
a great coach really can, cando and can be.
It's not just about winninggames.
It's like do you have theforesight to see that
something's off mentally andhave the skills, as a coach, to
pull them out of it, and asquickly as under an hour, which

(39:05):
is pretty amazing.
So right before we started this, you had sent me an email and
in the signature of your emailyou have announcement deli quote
.
I'll just read here no one isborn hating another person
because of the color of his skinor its background or his
religion.
People must learn to hate, andif they can learn to hate, they
can be taught to love, for lovecomes more naturally to the

(39:26):
human heart than its opposite.
How do you try to incorporatethat into your life?
Or, as best you can?

I think I you know from something.
I mean, it's such a beautifulquote, but the fact that matters
that when you really thinkabout it, how much effort and
time and just headache andwhatever other words you can
think of, does it take toliterally hate somebody or have

(39:54):
somebody get under your skin ornot want to be around Like it's.
To me it's, it's, it's such awaste of energy.
And time is one thing.
Like time, I know we can getreally deep and talk about the
concept.
We're not going to do any ofthat, so I'm not going to get
into that.
I'm really into.
Like the last two years I'vereally been focusing on my

(40:15):
energy, like some people call itspirit, spiritualness or
spirituality.
I can't speak right now, somepeople will.
You know, I know Chi is used,but I've been, I've been really
focused on energy and energy out.
That's a big thing.
I've been doing the lastprobably two and a half, three

(40:37):
years, since I've kind ofstarted this mental health,
physical health, you know,connection journey and I've
learned that if I don't take anyof my energy for hate or
displeasure, for something thatI have to, you know, actually go

(41:01):
out and show the world that Idon't like this person or hate
this thing or whatever, andwe're talking about a world that
is very divided.
I mean, it's been divided for along time.
But now it's like you flip yourphone open and I don't know why
I just said flip, like I don'tknow why I said flip phone.
You take your phone, you fuckit and flip on the TV, you put

(41:27):
the tablet up, whatever, likethere's always two sides to
everything, two divisive sidesto everything, and of course,
there's multiple sides, but theyay, nays are just so loud and
obnoxious.
And I'm not saying this in away that you know, people think
I'm, you know, right in themiddle and I don't think there's

(41:49):
a right and a wrong to things.
Of course I think there is aright and a wrong to things.
However, I've learned this, andthis is going to answer your
question about the quote I'velearned that, regardless of what
I do, regardless of what I say,what I write, who I know, who I
don't know the things I've donein my past, the things I'm

(42:10):
going to do in my future, likeit's a very minimal chance that
I'm going to change anyone orchange their opinion or make
them think differently about meby what I'm saying or writing so
I could take that energy and belike you know what, that I

(42:32):
can't stand that person,everything I've tried to do,
like they're not accepting, likeI know my perspective now is
like I wish them the best andI've tried and I'm going to move
on and I'm good to go.
No harm, no, not no harm, nofoul, but kind of like I still
have a life to live, like,unless you're messing with

(42:53):
either my family, my energy ormy money, one of those three
things which we live in acapitalist society.
I'm not, you know, I might be aperson who likes to think big,
but at the same time I got billsto pay.

That matters.

Unless you're messing with one of those three
things, I'm going to live mylife.
That's it.
Because this is coming from aperson who used to love to play
devil's advocate.
The person used to say we'llsee it from this perspective.
And no, no, no, you're wrong,and I can't believe.
That used to be me and I cringeevery time I think about like

(43:29):
the person I used to be a littlebit like, but it's turning me
into the person I am now.
But I like, and when I startsaying things like that, it
makes it obvious that it takesso much energy to hate somebody,
takes so much energy to hatesomething, and I truly believe

(43:51):
that humans are positivecreatures, are loving creatures,
they want to help the nextperson.
But as you grow up, as you getinto situations and you start
getting a little, you know,little clicky a little.
This is my clan, I got toprotect my own, you know, and

(44:12):
it's some people are saying goout and help others.
Some people say, no, keep it inthe, and then you start getting
into situations where it's likeanybody can be, anybody's mind
can be molded to think they'redoing the right thing.
So I really feel like I don'twant to.

(44:33):
I don't want to waste my energyhating something or hating
somebody.
Like I don't want to do that inpeople.
It's kind of thrown people off,to be honest with you, because
especially my friends,especially my sister, who's like
she'll come with me Can youbelieve this is happening?
Or can you believe I can'tbelieve this happened?
Blah, blah, blah.

(44:53):
And my response like I don'twant to be quip about it, but
it's like my God, let's get thisworkout in, like I don't.
Is it affecting us today, likeright now?
Like oh, no, it is so.
And she's asked me like thatquestion.
She's like why?
Why don't you allow things tobother you?
And I told her I was like I gotkids to raise, I got a wife to

(45:16):
take care of, I got a mortgage,I got a job.
Like I don't have time to worryabout things that have nothing
to do with me.
So yeah, I hope that that waskind of a rant, but I hope I
answered your question.

No, that was great.
I've got a few other follow-ups.
I want to go back to somethingyou said about divisiveness and
I think there are a few thingsthat can contribute to that.
One of them that you mentionedthe flip phones, obviously.
So I think with all thetechnology now, there's just
more availability to see, right,people are just louder, there's

(45:51):
an amplification of everyone'sopinion and you can just see all
the sides of this and formedia's perspective,
divisiveness and outrage is it'sgreat for everything, right,
it's great for virality.
So there's there's certainly anaspect of that that's helping
drive this.
Do you think there's also apoint kind of going back to,

(46:11):
kind of what we started thisconversation around, which was,
from, let's just say, a man'sperspective or a male's
perspective, sort of thistransitional period that we're
in slightly less clearly definedroles.
So now, like these sides thatare established online, it's

(46:31):
easier to sort of anchor, like,if they don't have their own
sort of identity, they can justanchor to these external
identities and they'd be likeokay, this is, this, is what
I'll tie myself to.
Do you think that'scontributing to the divisiveness
as well?

I mean short answer, yes, like, yes it is.
I mean it definitely is.
And we've gotten to a pointwhere I'm never going to be like
the old man yelling from hisporch to kids to get off his
lawn.
I'm not going to be that.
I'm not going to be that personbecause people are doing the

(47:06):
same thing.
Growing up, when I was growingup, about everybody has a
personal computer now and Idon't even want to know what's
going to happen in the future,like what's going to be the
thing then.
But and again the conversationI was having with one of my
friends, it's that not only doeseveryone have an opinion now,

(47:34):
everyone has a public opinion.
I was actually, as one of thegirls I was coaching, I, you
know, and everyone has theability, like you could, you
could.
The example I gave was youcould have the most just, benign

(47:55):
post where it's like, whereyou're outside in the sun and
you say, hey, everybody hope youhave a great day, make sure you
get outside in the sun todayand, of course, some people come
out oh great.
Thank you for saying that.
I appreciate that and you'regoing to have that one person's
like oh well, you don't havesunscreen on, you should take
your skin and you could respond.

(48:15):
Actually, I do have sunscreen,that's what I'm wearing and like
oh, I don't.
That's not organic, that's badfor the environment, and it's
like every every step you go,you're going to have someone who
is a contrarian just to be acontrarian, like you're not
adding anything to it.
People are people, are peopleare people, are people.
People are malleable.

(48:38):
Like.
People want some type of justpurpose.
They want a purpose, they wantto feel heard, they want to feel
seen.
When you have someone whodoesn't think highly of

(48:59):
themselves, have never beentaught how to properly cope with
triggers, when they feel likeno one sees them, no one hears
them, it's only human naturethat they're going to attach to
something that resonates withthem.
And how it happens.
Once I say it, everyone's goingto understand it.

(49:20):
Or I'd be like oh yeah, I knowwhat that means.
You could come home and youknow, keep stubbing your toe on
the counter in your kitchen andthe first time you hear on the
radio or on the podcast or on anews source, do you keep
stubbing your toe.
Well, we're the people Like.
It's a very basic, you knowexample, but that's what happens

(49:43):
Like and the issues that youand I may be talking about
aren't really tangible orspecific.
It's just someone just doesn'tfeel like anyone is out there
supporting them.
You know, are you a man and youdon't feel supported?
And the feminist movement hasgot you in?

(50:05):
Like, of course I'm just makingstuff up, but you know, it's
probably closer to truth than Ireally want it to be.
But then you're like, yeah,wait, yeah, I am a man and no
one does support me and peopleare taking away.
And yeah, this, yeah, I need to.
So, just like that you foundsomething to attach to be done.

(50:28):
Any research on it?
No, but they said the rightthings.
Now we've all been there.
Yeah, it made you feel great,like finally someone sees it
from my perspective and it'slike that's everywhere.
Now that's 24.
That's not just a couple ofhours a night or a couple of
days away, that is everywhere,at any time of the day.

(50:50):
And with algorithms, now, likeyou get it all the time.
Like I have to remind myselflike, why am I?
Why is this?
This one hour of scrolling mademe feel so good, or so like
energized about something, or sojust gung-ho on doing.
It's like, oh, it's, it's notme, it's this algorithm.
Like I got to get off this,like once I feel that I'm like I

(51:12):
feel way too, you know strongabout this opinion.
Right now, I'm going to putthis down and go do something
else.

Yeah, it's a great point about the algorithm.
So I have a few different Gmailaccounts, so it's great.
Sometimes I'll hop on YouTubeand I'll be on a different Gmail
account and I'll see somethingtotally I'd say like such good
exposure, be like, oh, there'sall this other stuff.
It's not just the same stuffthat my standard personal email
is tied to, which has been, justyou know, a self-fulfilling

(51:40):
loop over and over again.

It really is.

There's all these other things on the internet
which is a great reminder.
I'd love to move into like someof the more tangible stuff, and
not necessarily from like theclinical sense, just stuff that
you've experienced and foundthat works, like increasing
happiness or I don't know thatthese aren't the same, but

(52:04):
increasing happiness, managingdepression, managing anxiety,
any tangible tips for people outthere from a lifestyle
perspective, from how to buildsocial connections, anything
that can help people in thoserealms.

I always prefaced these, of course, with the fact
that I'm, you know, not a doctor, not a therapist.
However, I'm just a guy who'sgone through a lot of this stuff
and there are ways that areliterally you doing specific
things or taking specificsupplements, or not supplements,

(52:45):
but maybe minerals, things likethat that we don't get enough
of that.
We could sit here and say, hey,are you drinking enough water?
Are you getting enough sleep?
Are you getting outside?
For actually, you know, likethat is the baseline, like that
I think everybody should knowthat's the baseline If you are
feeling in a rut, if you arefeeling down, depressed, you
know all that good stuff.

(53:05):
Like there is a mind-bodyconnection, so it's all like.
I have interviewed so manyfitness professionals on the 6am
run podcast and it's amazinghow it all comes down to.
Are they getting good sleep?
Are they drinking enough water?
Are they also supplementingwith something with electrolytes

(53:25):
in it?
Are they getting, you know, arethey eating the right macros
and micros?
Are they making sure that theyknow of any underlying issues
with blood tests?
I mean, it's like it'sregardless if they're holistic,
if they're an MD, if they're aPhD, if they're a nutritionist,

(53:46):
if, like, it's amazing how itall comes back down to that.
So that's I always tell peoplethat's the first thing to start
at.
Like, go outside and walk for15 minutes, just start there.
Can you not have that sleeve ofOreos before you go to bed?

(54:06):
Like you don't understand, like, what that's doing to your
brain, like you don't you knowit's coming from a guy who had
two Oreos last night with hisdaughter because they're
delicious, like don't get mewrong, but so there's that, like
everybody, there's the baseline, there's things like that.
However, I am a person thatwants people to kind of change

(54:29):
the perception and change theconversation on things like this
, because a lot of people knowwhat they're going to get from
me, because they're going to.
Okay, Marc's going to talkabout fitness and staying in
shape and he's going to talkabout mindset and motivation and
discipline and mental health.
He's going to have that aspectto it because I believe in those
things.

(54:49):
But every like it's like 99% ofthe time when someone brings up
mental health, it's like theythink it's going to be like this
down and depressingconversation.
Oh, we have to talk.
We have to talk about feelingsand where we were at that time
and how it made us feel and blah, blah, blah.
It's like no, absolutely Like,I want to know when you're happy

(55:09):
, I want to know when you'resatisfied, I want to know when
you feel joy.
Let's, let's mark those things,let's put a little notch in,
because we want, we want tocelebrate those things.
Like if the thought is just totalk about depression and
anxiety and stress and workstress and stress about bills

(55:33):
and buy, like if that is yourgoal, I probably can't help you.
Now I'll be honest with you,like I I don't know if I want to
, because it does us no good ashumans if, like, all we focus on
are the opportunities, like ifthat's the only thing you're
focused on.
So I think one of the easiestways, one of the easiest ways

(55:58):
people can help themselves, iswhen they actually mark down the
times, the moments that theyare just overly joyous, the
times that they feel in a reallygood mood, and what happens is
that they one.

(56:18):
They start to at least thiswhat happens with me.
In my my journey, I started torealize there were certain parts
of my day I was really happy,like every day every doesn't
matter what I was going therewere certain parts of my, my day
that I was very thankful andvery grateful for what I had and

(56:39):
for the longest time I wasfocusing on how am I going to
get out of this rut?
Like I shouldn't feel this way,like everyone has it better,
like, and it turned out thatwasn't the case.
It was just that simple shift.
And the last thing I'm going tomention about this because I
think there's a huge, hugeimplications to just changing

(57:02):
one little thing in the thingsthat we do it's because a lot of
us there's probably a personlistening right now it's like,
yeah, when I get stressed, youknow I go for a run, or I go to
the gym and it really, you know,I haven't seen, really noticed
that much of a change.
Or when I get I, you know, theyhave their, their game plan.
I see the same thing.
Whenever I got over, I used torun six days a week, a lot of

(57:25):
miles, way way too much.
But like every time I would getstressed at work, every time
something would happen in myrelationship.
Every time something.
Just I was like I got to go fora run, got to go for a run, and
I would go for a run with theintent of, like, clearing my

(57:47):
head and running away fromwhatever I was dealing with and
I would come back feeling sortof good.
Then my mind would be like, ohcrap, you still have to deal
with this thing.
Well, burn would totally begone, like I feel my mind.

(58:07):
But I got this run Like, and soI shifted one little thing.
You know, I was like I'm goingfor a run to figure this out.
Instead of running away from it, I ran towards it.
And it's not.
It's not an easy shift to make.
I mean, it's a total paradigmshift.
It's a total shift.
But once you do it and once youfigure it out, not only does it

(58:31):
my runs got exponentiallybetter.
I ran longer, fat, like it wasjust, and I came back refreshed,
ready to take on the world,especially this one problem that
I had.
And so that I've been trying tomake sure people understand that
.
One, mental health does nothave to be a somber, sad

(58:52):
discussion.
And two, nothing, in my opinion, nothing ever works out if you
run away from any type of issue.
Run towards it, run directlytowards it.
But again, that's mypersonality.
I know it kind of rubs peoplethe wrong way when I kind of

(59:13):
give them like I don't giveunsolicited advice.
But when people are like, hey,Marc, what should I do?
Like just run headfirst into it, like well, I can't do that
right now, but can you?
I was like, okay, I understand,that's me.
I got a me right there.

You know the joke about triathletes, Like around
mental health.
It's like well, once you startrunning marathons so you can run
away from your problems, andonce you can't do that anymore,
you run by, can swim from them.

It's pretty good.

Can you think of like a tangible example of like
what running towards a problemlooks like?
And I'll let you think aboutthat because I want to mention
something else.
Brother Brooks, he was just Ithink he's Professor Harvard.
He just wrote a book with Oprahabout happiness.
He was on the Rich Roll podcast, which is really good, but
something he mentioned towardsthe end of that show was that

(01:00:04):
exercise does not increasepositive affect, so it doesn't
increase happiness, it helpsreduce negative affect.
So kind of like you were sayingyou're like I can exercise, but
at the second I get back it'slike those problems are still
there, Like I'm not necessarilyhappier.
But what it can do is sort ofblunt the negative affect, some

(01:00:24):
of those negative emotions thatyou might have.
It sort of reduces them, whichI thought was a very interesting
point.
That came out of his research,and he is a social scientist on
that point.

Marc Paisant (01:00:34):
Yeah, and it's hard for like I wouldn't even go
in and be like, no, I kind ofdisagree, I wouldn't do that
because I don't have thecredentials to do that.
I don't want to just be acontrarian.
To be a contrarian we alreadyknow how I feel about that.
But I think that's, I thinkit's absolutely correct, because
I mean, I've never gone on arun or gone to the gym and like

(01:00:56):
a problem worked itself out forme, like that never happened,
but I did come back and I feltmore motivated and positive,
that I had what it took to solvethis problem, or I could be
more creative in solving theproblem.
To answer your question, I kindof want to go in a different
perspective because there I meanthere, I have examples of of,

(01:01:20):
you know, running headfirst andstuff.
But I kind of want to give youthis example because this is the
person I am.
So everybody knows that feelingof going to an event, whether
it's a work event, whetheryou're meeting new people,
whatever you're in a seminar,something where you're like, hey
, we're going to go intoicebreakers and a break breakout

(01:01:40):
group, and you're like I don'tknow any of these people and
this sounds terrible Likeintroverts right now are like
turning the show off, like theydon't like it.
So in in that situation, Iunderstand how everyone feels,
especially if no one knows eachother and like everybody lives
through a handle nowadays.

(01:02:02):
Like no one goes out and likefinds friends like the old way.
Like like even nowadays, like Ilove how fast kids make friends
.
Like I just met you threeminutes ago and let's go, we're
best friends forever.
Like can we see them tomorrow?
It's like we we're at thegrocery store, like no, we're
not going to.
We don't even know them, so, so, um.

(01:02:23):
But I know how everybody feelsin that situation.
I understand how everyone feelsawkward.
Everyone feels like I don'twant to be here.
I literally just wanted to comeand learn about this time share
and now I got to do this.
Please don't do time shares.
That's a terrible idea.
But I digress.
I jump absolutely headfirst intothat 100% of the time.

(01:02:44):
If someone beats me to it, Ifeel upset 100% of the time.
Hey, I'm Marc Paisant.
This is what I do blah, blah,blah.
And I literally directly giveit to somebody.
Like I start it, like I makesure I jump in and take all the
awkwardness out of it and makeother people feel comfortable, I

(01:03:07):
will.
I will jump into that sea ofsharks just to make sure
everyone else knows that it wasonly one shark and he's good now
.
He got Marc, so you're good toswim now.
Like it's.
That's just something that it'sa lot to do with empathy, but
at the same time, it's likenothing, nothing's going to

(01:03:29):
happen.
Like we have this fear thatsomething bad is going to happen
.
By saying our name and havingsmall talk, it's like no, I'm,
I'm.
I don't want people to feelawkward.
Like, even if I feel awkward, Ijust jump right into it.

Parker Condit (01:03:48):
Interverts around the world.
Thank you for taking that firststep.

It just oh, it's so.
It's like I see what'shappening here.

All right, here I go.
Yeah, just surrender to it.
Yes, I kind of want to move onto like coaching training.
Do you have a demographic thatyou skew towards?
Or maybe the people that selfselect towards you All?

right.
So this is something that I'mnewer in the coaching and
training and I've kind of foundmy niche market, niche market
with with younger athletes and Ithink I think I like, I think
I'd like this, you know, kind ofperson athlete that I'm

(01:04:37):
starting to get because it'sdata driven and, and you know,
again, I wish I was a socialscientist to have this number.
But, like, kids are quittingsports by 16, higher than any
generation ever.
There are many reasons for it.

(01:05:01):
The biggest that kids aresaying is because the pressure
they feel nowadays with withyouth sports.
The second being kids arespecializing in one sport sooner
than they've ever done before.
Like the two sport athlete isalmost gone.
Like it's it's, it's a unicornnow when we, when we see a two

(01:05:23):
sport athlete my brother and Iwere two sports athletes.
We had, I mean, half of the,actually most of our soccer team
played, you know, eitherbasketball or football or
baseball or ran track or likenowadays you're a soccer player,

(01:05:43):
oh, I play tennis.
Like my neighbor, her, hisdaughter, she's an ice skater,
does nothing else and it's likethat is a lot of pressure on
kids nowadays.
So one of the things or thebiggest thing I I help kids with

(01:06:05):
and I say kids, teenagers, Imean I'd, I'd any, any young kid
that wanted to play a sport,I'd help them.
But it's like, can I teach themthe skills they need?
Of course, yeah, I teach themhow to get better technically.
Of course.
You know, I used to coach, Iused to do one-on-one training
with basketball players and mymain focus was improving shots,

(01:06:28):
like literally that's.
You know, I could teach youmoves and I could teach you
defense, all that stuff.
But a lot of times these, thesekids were never taught a jump
shot correctly.
And you see it, you see ithappening in the NBA more and
more, where athletes arebecoming NBA players because
they could always get to thehoop and now, like people are
stopping you from getting to thehoop and you know your shot

(01:06:50):
looks like hot trash, like it'sso.
Now it's kind of weird, for likeyou're like, oh, this person
worked on his shot over thesummer and you're like he just
made $8 million, it wouldn'teven over the sound, like why
doesn't he have one already?
So I could teach you all thatstuff.
But I really like helping a kidgain confidence.

(01:07:14):
Like that is one, like that isone of the most fulfilling
things in the world.
And for instance I had, therewas this kid I just started
working with and he's he's a nota teenager yet almost a
teenager in middle school andhe's very raw when it comes to
soccer.
I mean, you can see that he hassome raw talent.

(01:07:38):
He's not very sure of himself.
He's in that stage where, like,his legs are like three fourths
of his body, like every guyknows that, like it's like where
are my feet?

right now and you can tell You'll grow into those
legs at some point and I thinkit's hilarious.

And so you know it's, it's.
It's one of the workouts we'redoing is literally we're
finishing and a lot of peoplewill call it score.
I bet a lot of people who don'tknow the game of soccer will
say you know score or shootingthings like that.
But if you're being technical,it's, it's finishing.
Like the play builds up and youwant people to think about it
as this, finishing whether youscored or not.
Like you're working ondifferent ways to finish and you

(01:08:20):
know at the beginning of them,like hey, I just want you to
pass a few balls to you.
I'm not telling you how to doit, I just want you to do it.
And, of course, he knows what'seasy.
His body has the way that itlikes and he has muscle memory
and he's kicked the ball thesame same way every time.
I was like all right, I wantyou to open up your foot inside
the foot, go to that corner.
His body won't let him do it.

(01:08:43):
Like, his body won't let him doit.
I'm like all right.
And so you started talking aboutintent with some of the kids.
I'm like all right, so thinkabout this.
Like that part of your foot hasto be on this part of your ball
, this part of the ball, whatdoes your leg have to do?
Where does your other foot haveto be?
Like think about these thingswhile we're training.
Like don't just go out and say,oh, Marc said to do this, I'm

(01:09:03):
going to do it.
Like no, it's not that easy.
Like be intentional.
What does your knee have to do?
Where does it have to go, allthis stuff?
So he starts to get it a littlebit.
We move on to laces, finishingacross the goal and I'm glad you
played soccer because I canhave, I can have these
conversations.
You know exactly what I'mtalking about Right footed.
I'm like we're going to go farpost laces.

(01:09:23):
You know, toe down.
I want you to just drive theball across the keeper and into
the far post.
And his exact response is oh,I've never kicked the ball that
way before.
It's like all right, that'swhat cool, like I don't like
great time to learn.

(01:09:43):
It's time to learn.
I kid you not Again.
I started that time with askinghim to be intentional.
Think about what you have to do, think about where your knee
has to be over the ball and howyou have to strike through it.
He struck the first ball Likeit knuckled, it was perfect.
And he just stood there withthis smile on his face and I was

(01:10:09):
like really never hit it likethat before.
Like it was one of like Iunderstand, like he in his mind,
he was being, but he wasn'tfocusing on anything but that
act, like there was nothing elseinvolved, like he was, and it
wasn't the fact that he did itthe right way the first time, it

(01:10:29):
wasn't the fact that he struckthis just amazing, it wasn't any
of that things.
But the look on his face said Ijust did that, like that's what
the look on it wasn't like ohmy God, how did I do that?
The look on his face was I havethe ability to do that and so
you know it was one session, soit's not like he's going to go

(01:10:50):
out and you know, be Ronaldotomorrow, that's not going to
happen.
It's like now, if we do it acouple times, if he gets in a
game situation and he sees thatfar post open.
I want to make sure he has thatrepertoire to have the
confidence to strike that ball.
So you know, it used to be justPaisant training.

(01:11:12):
I changed it to Paisantcoaching and training because I
think I want to, I think I likethe coaching more.
I mean training is don't get mewrong, I know trainers are
coaches in their own sense, butit's like I don't want to just
go to the gym for 30 minutes andhave you do, you know, push,
pull, hinge and squat.
I don't want to do that.
Like we can, like we can.

(01:11:33):
If you want to pay me for that,let's do it.
I've been doing it for, youknow, a year now.
We can definitely do that.
But it's like and actually Istarted with a new client on
Monday.
Now I'm thinking about it it'slike that's what they want, but
it's like the coaching part ofit I want to help like, build
the confidence in the nextgeneration of it doesn't have to

(01:11:55):
be athlete, it doesn't have tobe athlete, just the next
generation of people who are thedecision makers in this country
.

Yeah, I think sport can be such a powerful
tool for teaching but, like anysort of hobby, right, music,
dance, whatever it might bethere's so many different things
.
Obviously, you and I just havesport as that common avenue that
we both explored.
I want to go back to somethingyou said, and I saw this because
I trained for a while as welland I saw a lot of sport,

(01:12:24):
specific youth athletes that Iwas working with.
I'm in Scottsdale, arizona, sothere's a lot of golfers, right.
So it's a weird like asymmetricmovement and these kids are.
I mean, the time has trainedthem, but now they're in college
A lot of them are D1 schoolslike they're phenomenal golfers,
but you get them in there andyou'd have them try to skip or

(01:12:47):
you throw them a tennis ball andit looked like it was the first
time they were like it lookedlike an alien took over their
body.
I'm like, have you never usedthis thing before?
It's like not to talk bad aboutthem, but it's like the
specialization from like agefive and six and the research is
really clear if there are anyparents out here listening who

(01:13:10):
have kids that you want to bereally good athletes, being a
multi sport athlete up until 13,14, 15,.
I think injury reduction issignificantly better.
If you're a multi sport athleteand your ability to, you're
just going to be a much betterathlete.
You have a much wider.
Sports is basically just taskaccomplishment.

(01:13:32):
You just have much more tools,many more tools at your disposal
to accomplish whatever the taskmight be and you were just
describing that in ways tofinish and soccer, but it's.
Whatever sport you're talkingabout, there's going to be a
variety of the situations.
Being a multi sport athlete asa kid is incredibly important,

(01:13:52):
also for cognitive developmenttoo.
I'm not sure I don't have theresearch off the top of my head
for that, but there's so muchbenefit to having a child be a
multi sport athlete and not selfselect or have the parents
select them to be a single sportathlete so early on.

That is something people need to.
But I need to go back andlisten to everything you just
said again, like it's soimportant.
I tell my daughters like Idon't care what sport you play,
you can, don't ever.
I'm never going to tell you youcan't play it.
I will never force you into asport, but I would never be that

(01:14:33):
parent that, like you just said, it happens.
I don't think we see as much ofa golf over on the East Coast,
but we see it a lot withbaseball over here.
We see a lot with baseball Kids14, 15 having Tommy John he's

(01:14:57):
paying four or 5,000 to go tothese quote unquote showcase
tournaments.
It's like at what point doesthis become more your dream than
your child's dream?

I think it's a big part of it.

That's a whole nother show in itself.
That's a whole nother show initself, yeah.

I think one of the really interesting things
when I first got into training Ihad some really good mentors.
They were very lucky, but theywere older and they had kids and
a very common conversationamongst all of them was are you
going to let your kids becomeprofessional athletes which one
I thought was strange that itwas just such an easy option.
But I saw it where it's like.

(01:15:39):
If you have the financial meansand you start them early enough
and you know what you're doing,you can definitely train a kid
to become a professional athlete.
Depends on the sport.
Some are harder than others, butyou can definitely do it or set
them up to a point wherethere's a very good chance they
can become a professionalathlete.
But the common consensus amongmost of them is like no chance.

(01:16:01):
They're like I wouldn't letthem do that because
professional athletes are justassets and whatever organization
you're part of will just getabused until you're no longer a
financially viable asset andthen they'll get a new one
because there's lots of freshones coming through the system.
But it was such a strange thingFor people.

(01:16:22):
Hearing this for the first timewill probably be a very unusual
thing for them to hear as well.

That's why I know every time the fact that the NFL
still has players.
Lets me know those players likelove the game.
Let's me know they love.
Because those contracts are notguaranteed.
Your body is now.
They got you playing Saturday,Sunday, Monday and Thursday
nights.
It's like, and for a guy who'soffensive lineman or defensive

(01:16:53):
lineman to continually just gethit in the head consistently
over and over again.
Yeah, 3 million, 4 millionsounds great, but you get
injured for a season, secondseason, they can wave you, Like
I have.
I know those guys love the game, they love it.

(01:17:13):
Whether that or there's justnothing else they can do, and I
don't want to say the latterLike.
I want to give them morerespect than that.
So I mean, it's amazing to methat people haven't been like
you know what?
We're just not going to dofootball anymore because it is a
cash cow.
It is a cash cow.
They make so much money.

Yeah, I mean, the finance side is a little more
interesting now because thereare NIL deals.

Yes, which I love.
Yeah, finally, it's about time.
Yes.

I mean, I think the D1 schools have made enough
money off the backs of collegeathletes for long enough.
It's great that they canactually start cashing in on
that as well.
I do want to start wrapping up.
I do have one more question.
In the idea of coaching, whattypes of characteristics do you
try to embody as a coach?
Like, obviously you try toteach the sport, you teach the

(01:18:07):
skills, you teach strength, butwhat do you try to demonstrate
from like an intrinsicstandpoint that hopefully the
people you're working with takeaway after spending time with
you?

Fallibility, basically I mean, I mean honest.

That's a great answer.

Because this is going to sound terrible, this is
going to sound so bad, but I'mgoing to say it.
So many people get into youthcoaching, whether it's
individual, for a specific sport, for a group, whatever and they
feel like they're BillBelichick or Phil Jackson and

(01:18:52):
it's close.
I don't want to say it'sembarrassing, it's close to
embarrassing.
But it's like when you look atit from, like this is a
personality trait, like youdon't want to beat the person up
because they love coaching somuch, and it's like man, it's
not that serious.
And guess what?
We're wrong all the time.

(01:19:14):
We're wrong all the time Forpeople listening or may want to
comment like I'd love to justhear how many times you've heard
a coach tell you sorry or thatthey were wrong or they made the
wrong decision.
We believe that saying I waswrong or being vulnerable or a

(01:19:44):
moment of second guessing isshowing weakness and I think it
couldn't be farther from thetruth.
It's like.
I'll give you an example, andthis actually happened the last
season I was coaching rec soccer.
My daughter was on the team.
I was a little coach kidrelationship.

(01:20:08):
I was hard on her than anybodyelse and I always had to like
bring myself back I was like, oh, I can't, I don't think I
should have said it that way.
And the fact of the matter isshe played goalkeeper and she
was a striker.
So first year she played, shedidn't know what side of the
field, she didn't know whatshape the ball was Like, that's

(01:20:29):
how bad.
Like she was just out therejust doing her best.
By the third or fourth seasonshe played goal half the year
and was an absolutely amazinggoalkeeper.
And then she played strikerhalf the year and scored most of
the goals for the team.
Like she had and this wasn't doany one-on-one sessions with me
.
She had basically taughtherself the game through
practices, things like that.
However, one practice she likedto goof around and end of

(01:20:58):
practice, I'm running it, theother coach isn't there and I
just hear one of the girls onthe ground crying, grabbing her
stomach, and I see this, like,look on my daughter's face and
I'm like I'm a girl, whathappened?
And my daughter is like, oh,the ball hit her in the stomach
accidentally.
And I'm like, don't do that.
Like don't do that, you knowbetter than that.

(01:21:20):
Everything's an accident withyou.
Like what happened?
Well, I just was putting theball on a hitter.
I'm like why would you puttinto a group of kit?
Like what is?
Like?
I lit into her out of practiceand I was just like go sit in
the car.
Like you're done, you're goingto sit in the car in front of
her teammates.
I shouldn't have done that.

(01:21:42):
Like I know I shouldn't havedone that.
And after practice I was like Icouldn't even like it, I
couldn't even matter her anymorebecause I had just made the
situation worse.
Like I was not the adult inthat situation.
I just I saw red and Iresponded to my not a player on

(01:22:07):
the team, because any otherplayer would have done that.
I would have been oh, are youokay?
Listen, we don't do that.
And you know I would have donethat, but I was dad at the
moment.
So we got to the next practicetwo days later and I had some of
the moms were there and I waslike hey, can you go pick up
some cookies real quick.
They ran down and greatAmerican cookie and if he never

(01:22:27):
has the freaking delicious, socome back.
So after practice I said, hey,girls, I want you to bring in a
quick like.
Hey, everybody remembers whathappened on Tuesday.
You know Aliyah did this andhurt such and such and you know
what?
I should not have yelled at herthe way I did.
And because I yelled at her infront of all of you, I'm going

(01:22:50):
to apologize to her in front ofall of you too.
So, aliyah, I apologize.
I should never have done thatand I'm very sorry.
And because of this, I went outand got all of you girls
cookies and that, I think, wasone of the best things I've ever
done as a coach.
Not a play I drew up, not alast second, not a hey, get the

(01:23:14):
court, like none of that stuff.
I think that was one of thegreatest things I did as a coach
, because I swallowed all of mypride, all of it, and I admitted
that I was wrong.
To a bunch of eight year oldgirls, nine year old girls, like
I'm an adult.

I'm an adult.

It's a tough crowd and it was, you know, it was
even like awkward for thembecause they're like, why is
this adult who is a coach likesaying he was wrong?
Like that doesn't happen, theydon't do that.
But what I've done, I wantpeople to know, is like I've now
shown them it's okay to bewrong, to apologize, it's okay

(01:24:02):
to do those things had nothingto do with soccer, had nothing
to do with sport.
It's just.
That's to answer your questionabout, like literally, what do I
want to embody?
The person I want to be, whatdo I?
That's it.
I want to be a person that canjust say I'm sorry when I have
to and move on, because I don'tthink enough of us do that.

Well, I think that's a very fitting way to
wrap this up and conclude.
That's also a great way toanswer that question as well.
So I appreciate you sharingthat.
Is there anything else youwanted to add before we before?

you close this down Now.
I just want to say thank youfor the time.
I really had a great timetalking to you.
I appreciate what you do and ifanybody is looking to talk I do
say this all the time like youcan find me on, I put my name in
and you can all my socials popup, especially on, you know,
linkedin and IG.

(01:24:59):
If you just reach out to me andjust need to have a
conversation, like, I respondlike it's not like I'm going to
charge you to have a.
If you're a man who'sstruggling, you know like no
one's listening to me, pleasereach out to me, like, please do
it and I will have aconversation.
We can start texting, we canemail, whatever is easier for
you.
I just want to make sure youknow that you're not alone.

That's a really great thing to offer.
We're also going to link toyour podcast.
We'll link to your socials.
We'll make sure everyone canget in touch with you as well
Marc thank you so much forcoming on.
This is a great conversation.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, I appreciate you, hey, everyone.
That's all for today's show.
I want to thank you so much forstopping by and watching,
especially if you've made it allthe way to this point.
If you'd like to be notifiedwhen new episodes are going to

(01:25:39):
be released, feel free tosubscribe and make sure you hit
the bell button as well.
To learn more about today'sguest, feel free to look in the
description.
You can also visit the podcastwebsite, which is
exploringhealthpodcastcom.
That website will also belinked in the description.
As always, likes, shares,comments, are a huge help to me
and to this channel and to thisshow.

(01:25:59):
So any of that you can do, Iwould really appreciate.
And again, thank you so muchfor watching and I'll see you
next time.

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

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