August 21, 2024 • 24 mins
Can intermittent fasting be detrimental to active women, particularly those in their late 30s and beyond? In this episode of Exploring Health Macro to Micro, we unpack the intricacies of intermittent fasting and its specific impacts on women with the insightful Danielle Pelicano. We dissect various fasting protocols like the 16-8 method and debunk some common misconceptions. Through recent studies, including one from Johns Hopkins, we discuss how the benefits of intermittent fasting might actually be more about caloric restriction. Danielle sheds light on the potential pitfalls for women who are active, stressing the necessity of proper nutrition and consistent fueling to maintain muscle mass and overall health.
Join us as we navigate the best strategies for fueling exercise and achieving weight loss, emphasizing the importance of listening to your body's needs over trending diets. We discuss pre- and post-workout nutrition, the role of simple carbs and protein, and why exercise shouldn't be solely about shedding pounds. Discover how walking can be a highly effective weight management strategy, supported by research on daily steps. We also share practical advice on integrating physical activity into your everyday routine and insights from Dr. Stacey Sims on how female endurance athletes should fuel their bodies. Don't miss this episode packed with actionable advice tailored for women looking to optimize their health and fitness.
Connect with Danielle:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniellepellicano/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PellicanoEnduranceCoaching/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpw5QRzLoC5uQoyI0hlE8eg
Website: https://www.daniellepellicano.com/
Additional Resources:
Dr. Stacy Sims Website: https://www.drstacysims.com
Stay Connected with Parker Condit:
In Touch Health & Performance Website
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Parker Condit (00:05):
Hi everyone, welcome back to Exploring Health
Macro to Micro.
I'm your host, parker Condit,and if you're watching the video
, you can tell that we're backfor another live episode with
Danielle Pelicano.
So this is going to be anotheron the floor, as we've been in
Colorado for the past few days.
So again, I would suggest youwatch some videos so you can see
our beautiful background herein Colorado and as I warned
(00:27):
before we started recording.
I'm talking myself out of breathbecause we're at elevation, so
the answers might be a bitshorter today.
But the basis of this episode.
Again, if you're not familiarwith the on the floor format,
danielle has recorded questionsfrom people on the gym floor.
We're going to answer them foryou and we kind of theme these
today mostly around intermittentfasting.
So the first question I'm notsure who this is from, but it's
(00:50):
a good primer for us to startwith.
Okay, my question is what doyou think about intermittent
fasting?
So you had an interesting oh,out of the gate.
Yeah, right off the bat.
Danielle Pellicano (01:02):
That's fine.
Parker Condit (01:03):
What are your first thoughts on intermittent
fasting?
Then I'll kind of go into mine.
Danielle Pellicano (01:06):
Intermittent fasting.
Any of the science that hasbeen shown currently has been
studies done on obese men.
Parker Condit (01:13):
Okay.
Danielle Pellicano (01:13):
So now most of my clientele that even brings
up intermittent fasting arewomen.
So out of the gate, that topicchanges in my opinion.
Yep, I have always believed intime restricting eating.
I think that's good for yourgut microbiome.
I think there are better sleephabits that come with time
(01:33):
management of the timing of whenyou eat.
Intermittent fasting as a wholeI don't think is great for
women okay, that's a good placeto start.
Parker Condit (01:42):
Um, I have a lot of thoughts on intermittent
fasting.
I think the reason this isworth doing an entire episode on
was because there is so muchtalk around it and I think a lot
of the what intermittentfasting is, which is basically
(02:03):
just some feeding window versussome non-feeding window or some
fasted window.
Generally, when people arespeaking about intermittent
fasting, they're talking about a16-8 protocol, which is 16
hours of fasting and aneight-hour feeding window.
Intermittent fasting is notalways that it can be more
restricted.
You could do a 20-hour fastedwindow with a four-hour feeding
(02:24):
window.
It can be more restricted.
You could do a 20-hour fastedwindow with a four-hour feeding
window.
You could even do one day offasting with one day of eating.
So there's a lot of differentways you can cut this.
And when a lot of people aretalking about intermittent
fasting, the distinction betweenthe protocol of what a study
said is not always directlytranslate to what people think,
because most people think whenyou say intermittent fasting,
they think 16-8.
(02:45):
That's generally what people aregoing to be thinking, and then
they'll cite research of oh,because I get this benefit, and
then it's a totally differentprotocol which isn't even close
Correct.
So anyway, my thoughts onintermittent fasting and I
wanted to wait until I wasn'twaiting for more research to
come out, but we're recordingthis.
In early July, and I think itwas in April or March of this
(03:07):
year, a study came out fromJohns Hopkins which the basic
conclusions of that were statingthat the benefits that have
generally been attributed tointermittent fasting are
actually better attributed tocaloric restriction.
So they did a time restrictedgroup and then a just
calorically restricted group,but they matched calories.
(03:27):
So basically the benefits thatyou were getting from
intermittent fasting so theythought, was actually more
benefit just from the caloricrestriction to be very
beneficial for your health.
But you obviously can't do itforever because if you're always
calorically restricting you'lljust lose weight and wither away
to some point.
So I wanted to wait to recordthis to kind of wrap my head
(03:51):
around that study a little bitmore.
Danielle Pellicano (03:52):
Right.
Parker Condit (03:53):
Because a lot of people are saying, oh, it's
better for weight loss or it'sbetter for metabolism and all
these things.
Danielle Pellicano (03:59):
Do you not agree that most people turn to
intermittent fasting for weightmanagement?
Parker Condit (04:03):
I do not agree that most people turn to
intermittent fasting for weightmanagement.
Yeah, so I guess the better wayto discuss that is
understanding that intermittentfasting can be a tool for that,
where a lot of people end upeating less because there is a
more.
You're lopping off one meal,generally Right breakfast, and
(04:25):
just by doing that, even if youknow, okay, I should be taking
in 1800 calories a day, or 25,whatever your number is.
If you're lopping off one mealand you have less time to eat,
it's going to be a little biteasier for some people to be
calorically restricted, correct,and then, as you're calorically
restricted, that's where you'regetting the benefit for some
people.
Danielle Pellicano (04:43):
I'm always going to be the.
I'm always going to come fromthe perspective on this podcast
from women.
Parker Condit (04:47):
Yep.
Danielle Pellicano (04:47):
Great, it's smart, it just makes sense.
I also have to keep in mindthat most all of my clientele
are active women.
So when I get questions likethis, I immediately am not
saying intermittent fastingdoesn't serve a purpose when
it's necessary, but for that tobe something that you start to
become, becomes a habit in yourway, and you also are someone
(05:09):
who exercises daily.
It is detrimental for womenbecause most of the time you are
going to your fuel source Ifyou do fasted cardio, for
example, is going to come fromlean muscle mass.
If you're a female and I am nowin a point in my 40s where I'm
aging with my clients If you arein your late 30s and on and
you're intermittent fasting butyou are a regular gym going
(05:32):
workout person, you are playingwith fire.
You are choosing to tap intolean muscle mass to fuel your
workouts instead ofappropriately fueling them prior
to working out.
So I'm going to say I do notlike intermittent fasting.
I don't think it's necessary.
I'd rather always promote verygood eating habits and I don't
(05:55):
think we're doing that enough,especially because you and I
typically are bringing ourpodcast back to protein intake
for women.
I think the conversation shouldbe flipped on its head, where
the last thing I want to seewomen doing is choosing to close
down their feeding windows andeating less.
In my opinion, we need to bepromoting more carbs and protein
(06:16):
.
Parker Condit (06:18):
Yep, so you touched on another point.
I'm trying to remember thesecond question, whether or not
it's going to be more relevantthere or here, but which is on
like disordered eating, wherethere's not enough conversation
around the fact that I treatintermittent fasting.
So I'll speak more for myselfand, I guess, the boys.
Intermittent fasting is a tool,in the same way that a
screwdriver is a tool and ahammer is a tool.
(06:40):
Right, if you have a nail andyou have a screwdriver, that's a
shitty tool.
So it's understanding yourselfand trying to be a little bit
more interoceptive andunderstanding like is this a
model that works well for me,where some people just naturally
they don't really like eatingbreakfast and they don't like
having to put calories in theirbody early in the day and they
(07:01):
feel fine?
And if that's who you are, thenintermittent fasting is going
to be something that justprobably resonates with you and
is going to be a good solution.
It's going to be a better toolfor you.
Danielle Pellicano (07:10):
Here's why it's so nice to be a man.
You guys, you are going to gothrough stored glucose in a
fasted state first.
That would be a dream come truefor women.
It is completely not that way.
For women, we tap into bloodsugar, free fatty acids and
amino acids first, which are allthings you want.
So when you are now going intofasted cardio and why I'm saying
(07:30):
it, I have to re-impact from anexercise standpoint.
Is the people asking us thesequestions are gym goers Right?
They're working out every day.
So I'm going to approach theconversation and the answer that
way.
You are going to end up as afemale coming in in a fasted
state.
You are going to burn most ofyour metabolically active tissue
, which is your lean muscle mass, to fuel the activity, and it's
going against all of what weare doing as trainers.
(07:53):
We're trying to get themstronger.
We're trying to keep thatmuscle mass as you age, because
that's just starting to tick offalready.
Parker Condit (08:13):
So for me, I'm going to stay firm on the.
I don't like intermittentfasting for women and for your
conversation, for men iscompletely different because you
completely benefit from it.
A lot of people probably heardof, when you're doing cardio,
the fat burning zone, yes, whichis the highest rate of fat
oxidation.
But it's not saying like allyou're burning is fat, because
you're never just burning fat,it's always a combination, but
it's your highest rate ofburning fat.
(08:34):
A lot of people when you hearthat, instinctively they think,
oh, I'm burning body fat.
So if you go in the gym and yougo on a treadmill somewhere on
there, on there it's gonna say,oh, here's your fat burning zone
.
Most people think they'reburning body fat.
You're burning free fatty acids.
You need to be working for likean hour plus to get to stored
body fat.
So that is always poorlycommunicated and always people
are like but I'm doing fatburning zone, it's like it's
(08:55):
free fatty acids, it's what youhad for breakfast.
Yeah, period, okay, anythingelse on this topic?
Danielle Pellicano (09:03):
no, I like, I like that, I like that.
I'm firm on the no for womenyeah, no, I think it's great.
Parker Condit (09:08):
Yeah, um, oh, I think, touching on um, so even,
yeah, it's like we're prettymuch on the same page of like
intermittent fasting isoverhyped.
Danielle Pellicano (09:17):
But let's answer it this way too time
restricted eating there.
There are huge benefits to it.
I've always said this in ourprofession.
We almost do it accidentallybecause we wake up so early and
we go to bed so early, so we'realmost put into a time
management eating of a 12 hourwindow, not intentionally.
I am so mindful of starting mymetabolism when I can, so I'm
(09:45):
not forcing necessarilybreakfast down my throat at six
in the morning, but two hardboiled eggs, something that
kickstarts it.
That's protein driven.
It's an important habit.
It matters if you are, becauseour conversation about protein
intake for women, if you areeven doing a fasted state, you
are trying to get the proteinintake in a six hour window.
(10:05):
It's never going to happen.
So that in itself makes me notnot like it, right it's.
It requires mindful eating isreally how I talk about it.
Yeah.
Parker Condit (10:16):
So then let's just pretend intermittent
fasting did have all thesebenefits.
There's still the risk ofdisordered eating, which is a
much higher risk amongst womenbut, not uncommon amongst men.
So, like you need as a traineror you as a client, like there
needs to be a lot of boxeschecked for me to say, oh,
you're a great candidate forintermittent fasting, correct?
(10:36):
Okay, let's move on.
Danielle Pellicano (10:38):
Okay, I feel like intermittent fasting is
really talked about, but I feellike eating before a workout
makes me work out better.
What do you recommend eatingbefore a workout, or do you
recommend not eating before aworkout?
Okay, so this question iscoming from Kennedy.
She's a college athlete and sheis 21.
Okay, and she's already talkingabout intermittent fasting.
Parker Condit (11:01):
Great.
Danielle Pellicano (11:05):
But she brought it back around timing of
foods prior to exercise simplecarbs.
Carbs is a killer.
Women hate hearing carbs.
Women should be eating so manymore carbs and protein, but it's
the timing of it that isincredibly important.
I am curious, before I answer,what your thoughts are on timing
of foods prior to exercise.
Parker Condit (11:26):
I'm less precise about it.
I just want somebody to feelgood in the workout.
Danielle Pellicano (11:32):
So, again, because you have a beautiful
mind and I love this, can youexplain what a simple carb is
versus a complex and why asimple carb is what would fuel a
workout but is not somethingyou would want to be eating as
your carb choice throughout theday?
Parker Condit (11:46):
Why don't you go on that?
I'm still trying to think of,like, how I'm going to organize
the rest of my answer.
Sorry, I cut you off, it's okay.
Danielle Pellicano (11:50):
No, go, finish your thought.
Parker Condit (11:52):
Okay, because, like I work with people that are
not as precise.
Like you work with enduranceathletes where it's like fuel
timing, nutrition, that athleteswhere it's like fuel timing and
nutrition, that's all reallypart of your.
I'm more gen pop where, like,the timing of that matters a lot
less.
So I'm much more about teachingpeople like to feel what's
happening within themselves.
So, again, like it goes back towhat kind of what I said in the
(12:13):
first answer, where it's like,if you're a person who naturally
doesn't like eating in themorning, I'm not going to force
them getting they're not eliteathletes to work with.
I'm not going to force them toeat if they don't normally feel
good eating in the morning,because then they're probably
going to have a worse workout.
So it's more from my side ofthings of just teaching people
to feel more confident andlistening to their bodies of
what they want and like exerciseis such a great way to teach
(12:35):
people to learn about themselvesand their body and connect that
with their mind.
So that's more where I takethings.
Danielle Pellicano (12:44):
Agreed, I think from Kennedy's perspective
.
Everyone's trying to have sucha caloric deficit that they
think it's going to be to theirbenefit to come up, to come into
a HIIT workout, thinkingthey're going to always tap into
zone four, completely underfueled.
And once again, if you don'tfuel the exercise that you're
about to do, your body is goingto tap into lean muscle mass.
To fuel it, you need to give itsimple carbs.
(13:07):
The reason for simple carbssimple carbs is a very high
glycemic sugar.
It's not what you would want toever feed on all day.
So it's not your fruits,vegetables, whole grains.
Simple is going to be a bowl ofcereal.
Sounds awful, but it's going togive you this spike in glucose.
It's going to fuel your workout.
It's going to give you energyso that your body's not tapping
into lean muscle mass, which isalways the goal.
(13:29):
And then, post-workout, youwant a again a simple carb with
bookends with protein.
So, for example, it's going tosound so weird.
I might have me personally halfa Snickers, but then I'll have
Greek yogurt and people likethat's an interesting combo but
it's bulletproof.
So I get my simple carbreplenishment but I'm also
(13:50):
getting and starting on therecovery with the protein.
How did you find thatcombination, dr Stacey Sims?
I love her.
Parker Condit (13:57):
I don't feel bad about it, it's a fact.
Okay, so again for anyone,anyone female in the endurance
world generally.
Danielle Pellicano (14:15):
Dr Stacey Sims book is a good reference.
We'll pop it up Telling womenthese are the things that you
need to do if you want to agebetter Not gracefully per se,
but better.
And it's always coming from anendurance standpoint or athletic
background.
Because it's true and you aremore or less just trying to
maintain a lot of your body compstarting in your 40s and going
(14:39):
into your 50s.
It gets much harder.
So you are only going to helpin podcasts like this, giving
that type of information andmessage.
Yep.
Parker Condit (14:48):
I don't have much more to add on that Cause we
like.
Well, starting with, startingwith the broad.
What are your general thoughtsabout intermittent fasting?
I figured we're going to touchon a lot of it.
Yeah, okay, last question.
So my question is there isalways such an emphasis on
post-workout?
Danielle Pellicano (15:02):
protein.
Is there anything we need toknow about what eating before
the workout?
I'm going to simplify this too.
I don't understand why youwould go into a workout not
wanting to have energy and Ithink a lot of people are going
into workouts not fuelingclearly out of the fear of the
(15:22):
calorie deficit, because mostpeople are working out.
This is general pop.
I'm being very honest.
Yep, they want to lose weight,they want to get leaner.
That's their mindset.
One thousand percent they.
I don't know how you can evenhave the energy to finish the
workout if you don't come inwith some calories.
Yep Period.
Parker Condit (15:41):
Yeah.
So I think we kind of touchedon those concepts in the first
two responses of we're.
Again, I'll give.
I'll give, like the, theexception where some people just
feel better.
Danielle Pellicano (15:53):
Right.
Parker Condit (15:53):
Fine If that's you, great.
But just because intermittentis fasting is popular right now
and a lot of people are talkingabout it, I think a lot of
people are gravitating to it,probably inappropriately, so
we've kind of landed on the samepart of fuel.
Yourself beforehand, youalready went over post-fueling
with the types of carbs andbooking on the protein.
(16:16):
But you mentioned weight loss.
Yeah, yeah what are yourthoughts on?
So like?
Exercise is always so closelytied to weight loss.
That's not where I would start.
People Like if we're going totalk about weight loss, it's
walking.
Danielle Pellicano (16:32):
You, you literally have been the reason I
have paid attention to stepcount for over the last year and
a half two years Walkingcrushes.
It's the daily.
What do we call it?
Daily pass what do we call thatword?
Parker Condit (16:45):
I asked you this daily physical activity.
Danielle Pellicano (16:46):
That one is a game changer of weight
management.
Parker Condit (16:49):
Yeah, um, so just to give like, I'll give a study
first and then we can talkabout it.
But there was a study thatlooked at people who had lost
weight at least 10 kilograms so22 pounds, so a a significant
amount of weight and they keptit off for at least 10 years.
So 22 pounds, so a significantamount of weight, and they kept
it off for at least 10 years.
So they looked at that groupand then a group that didn't
lose weight and then a groupthat lost weight but put it back
(17:12):
on.
So there was like three arms tothe study and the group that
kept it off.
The main difference for themwas that they walked a lot.
They averaged, I think, 13,000steps a day.
So the people that lost weightmoved a lot and then they just
never stopped moving their body.
So to underestimate walking iseasy, because it seems very
passive and it seems like, oh,it's something I do every day,
(17:33):
it's kind of like breathingRight.
But the the importance ofwalking can't be understated and
I think it's because if youbuild walking as a daily
practice, then you always havethat.
If life gets busy or after yourseason and you take some time
off and something happens, youget an injury, whatever it might
be.
If you're only relying onexercise, then your weight loss
(18:00):
tool is gone if you drop that.
But if you always have thatunderlying movement practice of
walking a lot every day and justbeing fidgety and active with
your body, then you have that tofall back on.
So, that's why I always startpeople on a foundation of
walking.
Danielle Pellicano (18:11):
Let me ask you something.
What's that number to you?
If someone, if that is a newconcept to them, because this
was asked by a client of minelast week they're like what
should my step count be inbetween workouts?
So I might build out a four-dayvery strict running program?
Yep, they're like, well, whatam I doing the other three days?
What should my step count be?
(18:31):
What are they at in what way?
What's their average step count?
I didn't even ask that, okay,because I I'm just curious like
what do you think that number is?
Parker Condit (18:40):
it depends on the person so I'll give already
active, like already fit I'dstill want to see the number
right because like you so togive an example you can work out
three days a week and still besedentary oh, for sure right.
So if if you're working outthree days a week and you're
walking 4 000 steps a day, Iwould call that person sedentary
(19:00):
okay, so I'm gonna use.
Danielle Pellicano (19:03):
No, I'm gonna use chris, he'll
appreciate this.
Parker Condit (19:04):
I'll give you numbers, but yeah, no, he's a
chef.
Danielle Pellicano (19:07):
He's on his feet Okay Expediting, so not
necessarily maybe saying hi to afew tables.
I am.
He is on a weight loss programwith me.
Parker Condit (19:15):
Okay.
Danielle Pellicano (19:16):
His favorite sport is cycling.
Cool, well, what's a step count?
Because I got him on a Garminwatch and he sees that he can
now see it, which is fantastic.
It's like closing a ring withthe Apple Watch.
What would you set his stepcount at?
Weight loss is his goal,correct?
Parker Condit (19:33):
12?
Yeah, so like 12, understand it, but like I'm kind of just
pulling that out of nowhere.
If I work with people that aregenerally going to be lower,
like if somebody is walking5,000 steps a day, I'm never
jumping them to 12.
Okay, I'm giving them winsearly.
And I would say 2,000 steps isa mile Roughly.
Yeah, you can walk about ahundred steps a minute.
(19:54):
So that's how I think of it.
I adore you.
Danielle Pellicano (19:56):
Round it up for us.
I think 2,000 is a mile.
Yeah, I think that's.
I like that number.
Parker Condit (20:04):
Yeah, All right.
Danielle Pellicano (20:05):
So so here it is I mean you're asking for
six miles a day from that person.
Parker Condit (20:08):
Yeah, that's legit that.
Danielle Pellicano (20:09):
that is, that's changed that.
Parker Condit (20:10):
Now everyone's like oh, in their car driving
right now.
I'm like okay, so if you walkthree minutes a mile, which is
an average walking mats here,right?
Danielle Pellicano (20:21):
I asked one of my clients who is very
sedentary in his job as of lateas of the last six months.
It's been very stressful forhim.
I go on average like what isyour step count right now?
He's like I'm lucky if I get 5000 sucks yeah, so five is
average, I guess but there's no,there's only weight gain
happening is why I say that it'sdemoralizing a little bit.
(20:42):
It's very upsetting.
5 000 is just scraping thesurface.
Parker Condit (20:46):
It feels like it's been proven generally, if
someone's around five, they'reprobably time constricted or
time restrained, correct?
I I try to get them to win at a10 bump.
So if they're at five I'mbumping them to 5500 good to
know right, I'm like besuccessful at this thing where
it's like you can have.
You can have setbacks in yourworkouts a little bit.
(21:07):
They're less frequent, but it'slike I want this person winning
day after day after day afterday.
And like really stacking thathabit.
There's a variety of reasonsfor weight gain beyond just
being sedentary.
That is probably dedicated forits own podcast.
But there's a lot of researcharound 7,000 steps a day.
I think that's a better minimumhealth threshold than 10,000.
(21:28):
By the way, 10,000 steps a daywas a made up number from a
Japanese pedometer company inthe 1960s, so it was a marketing
number.
It's a great.
It's a great number becauseit's high, but it's probably
higher than the threshold forlike health benefits, in that 7,
steps a day has some researcharound or 7500 steps a day for
(21:49):
women and lower incidence ofdepression.
So that's a good threshold.
Yes, I think 8000 steps a dayis a minimum for preventing
weight gain.
So if somebody just wants tomaintain, I put them around
eight and then weight loss hadput closer to 12 or 13.
So those are just some numbersthat people can reference.
Danielle Pellicano (22:08):
I completely agree, it's also mindfulness I
love that word actually becauseto actually hit that goal, to
close that ring, you come homefrom your day, your dog staring
at you.
You're like 2,500 steps.
Shy, we're going on a lap.
Parker Condit (22:21):
Yep.
Danielle Pellicano (22:22):
I'm going to the grocery store.
I step shy.
We're going on a lap yep I'mgoing to the grocery store, I'm
going to park at the very farend versus trying to find the
closest spot.
Those little things throughoutyour entire day, those habits
totally, totally close the ring.
Yep, yesterday, alex, her stepcount was 87 500 for that
everest challenge.
Parker Condit (22:37):
So while we close this out.
Why don't you just describe so?
Danielle Pellicano (22:40):
yesterday one of my clients did the
everest challenge, which is theactual ascent of of everest,
which is 27 000.
I am going to round it to 800.
I could be wrong, I think I'mclose.
So that required nine ascentson aspen mountain.
At the last lap last night itwas 10 30.
We're just doing all themetrics.
(23:02):
That she goes, coach D.
Today I got 87,500 steps.
Yep, that's, I mean, that'sjust so cool yeah that was there
you go.
Parker Condit (23:13):
So yeah, step count, Anything else to close
out on this.
Danielle Pellicano (23:17):
No, I love that we keep hammering the same
message in a good way.
We're very consistent in whatwe think, yep.
Parker Condit (23:23):
Yeah, any other questions from back there?
We're recording this and myaunt and uncle and Malavika are
out there.
Any questions to add on to thisepisode?
Nope, thank you All right,everyone.
Thanks for tuning in foranother episode of On the Floor.
I hope you were able to watchthis one because I wanted to
record here because, as you cansee, it's beautiful here in
(23:46):
Basalt, colorado.
Jim and Kim, thanks for lettingus record here of this
beautiful location.
Love it, danielle.
Danielle Pellicano (23:52):
Thanks for letting us do it Parker, it's
always a pleasure.
Parker Condit (23:54):
Great, All right, thanks everyone.
Hey everyone.
That's all for today's show.
I want and by and watching,especially if you've made it all
the way to this point If you'dlike to be notified when new
episodes are going to bereleased, feel free to subscribe
, and make sure you hit the bellbutton as well.
To learn more about today'sguest, feel free to look in the
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You can also visit the podcastwebsite, which is
(24:15):
exploringhealthpodcastcom.
That website will also belinked in the description.
As always, likes, shares,comments are a huge help to me
and to this channel and to theshow.
So any of that you can do Iwould really appreciate.
And again, thank you so muchfor watching.
I'll see you next time.
Hi everyone, welcome back to Exploring Health
Macro to Micro.
I'm your host, parker Condit,and if you're watching the video
, you can tell that we're backfor another live episode with
Danielle Pelicano.
So this is going to be anotheron the floor, as we've been in
Colorado for the past few days.
So again, I would suggest youwatch some videos so you can see
our beautiful background herein Colorado and as I warned
(00:27):
before we started recording.
I'm talking myself out of breathbecause we're at elevation, so
the answers might be a bitshorter today.
But the basis of this episode.
Again, if you're not familiarwith the on the floor format,
danielle has recorded questionsfrom people on the gym floor.
We're going to answer them foryou and we kind of theme these
today mostly around intermittentfasting.
So the first question I'm notsure who this is from, but it's
(00:50):
a good primer for us to startwith.
Okay, my question is what doyou think about intermittent
fasting?
So you had an interesting oh,out of the gate.
Yeah, right off the bat.
Danielle Pellicano (01:02):
That's fine.
Parker Condit (01:03):
What are your first thoughts on intermittent
fasting?
Then I'll kind of go into mine.
Danielle Pellicano (01:06):
Intermittent fasting.
Any of the science that hasbeen shown currently has been
studies done on obese men.
Parker Condit (01:13):
Okay.
Danielle Pellicano (01:13):
So now most of my clientele that even brings
up intermittent fasting arewomen.
So out of the gate, that topicchanges in my opinion.
Yep, I have always believed intime restricting eating.
I think that's good for yourgut microbiome.
I think there are better sleephabits that come with time
(01:33):
management of the timing of whenyou eat.
Intermittent fasting as a wholeI don't think is great for
women okay, that's a good placeto start.
Parker Condit (01:42):
Um, I have a lot of thoughts on intermittent
fasting.
I think the reason this isworth doing an entire episode on
was because there is so muchtalk around it and I think a lot
of the what intermittentfasting is, which is basically
(02:03):
just some feeding window versussome non-feeding window or some
fasted window.
Generally, when people arespeaking about intermittent
fasting, they're talking about a16-8 protocol, which is 16
hours of fasting and aneight-hour feeding window.
Intermittent fasting is notalways that it can be more
restricted.
You could do a 20-hour fastedwindow with a four-hour feeding
(02:24):
window.
It can be more restricted.
You could do a 20-hour fastedwindow with a four-hour feeding
window.
You could even do one day offasting with one day of eating.
So there's a lot of differentways you can cut this.
And when a lot of people aretalking about intermittent
fasting, the distinction betweenthe protocol of what a study
said is not always directlytranslate to what people think,
because most people think whenyou say intermittent fasting,
they think 16-8.
(02:45):
That's generally what people aregoing to be thinking, and then
they'll cite research of oh,because I get this benefit, and
then it's a totally differentprotocol which isn't even close
Correct.
So anyway, my thoughts onintermittent fasting and I
wanted to wait until I wasn'twaiting for more research to
come out, but we're recordingthis.
In early July, and I think itwas in April or March of this
(03:07):
year, a study came out fromJohns Hopkins which the basic
conclusions of that were statingthat the benefits that have
generally been attributed tointermittent fasting are
actually better attributed tocaloric restriction.
So they did a time restrictedgroup and then a just
calorically restricted group,but they matched calories.
(03:27):
So basically the benefits thatyou were getting from
intermittent fasting so theythought, was actually more
benefit just from the caloricrestriction to be very
beneficial for your health.
But you obviously can't do itforever because if you're always
calorically restricting you'lljust lose weight and wither away
to some point.
So I wanted to wait to recordthis to kind of wrap my head
(03:51):
around that study a little bitmore.
Danielle Pellicano (03:52):
Right.
Parker Condit (03:53):
Because a lot of people are saying, oh, it's
better for weight loss or it'sbetter for metabolism and all
these things.
Danielle Pellicano (03:59):
Do you not agree that most people turn to
intermittent fasting for weightmanagement?
Parker Condit (04:03):
I do not agree that most people turn to
intermittent fasting for weightmanagement.
Yeah, so I guess the better wayto discuss that is
understanding that intermittentfasting can be a tool for that,
where a lot of people end upeating less because there is a
more.
You're lopping off one meal,generally Right breakfast, and
(04:25):
just by doing that, even if youknow, okay, I should be taking
in 1800 calories a day, or 25,whatever your number is.
If you're lopping off one mealand you have less time to eat,
it's going to be a little biteasier for some people to be
calorically restricted, correct,and then, as you're calorically
restricted, that's where you'regetting the benefit for some
people.
Danielle Pellicano (04:43):
I'm always going to be the.
I'm always going to come fromthe perspective on this podcast
from women.
Parker Condit (04:47):
Yep.
Danielle Pellicano (04:47):
Great, it's smart, it just makes sense.
I also have to keep in mindthat most all of my clientele
are active women.
So when I get questions likethis, I immediately am not
saying intermittent fastingdoesn't serve a purpose when
it's necessary, but for that tobe something that you start to
become, becomes a habit in yourway, and you also are someone
(05:09):
who exercises daily.
It is detrimental for womenbecause most of the time you are
going to your fuel source Ifyou do fasted cardio, for
example, is going to come fromlean muscle mass.
If you're a female and I am nowin a point in my 40s where I'm
aging with my clients If you arein your late 30s and on and
you're intermittent fasting butyou are a regular gym going
(05:32):
workout person, you are playingwith fire.
You are choosing to tap intolean muscle mass to fuel your
workouts instead ofappropriately fueling them prior
to working out.
So I'm going to say I do notlike intermittent fasting.
I don't think it's necessary.
I'd rather always promote verygood eating habits and I don't
(05:55):
think we're doing that enough,especially because you and I
typically are bringing ourpodcast back to protein intake
for women.
I think the conversation shouldbe flipped on its head, where
the last thing I want to seewomen doing is choosing to close
down their feeding windows andeating less.
In my opinion, we need to bepromoting more carbs and protein
(06:16):
.
Parker Condit (06:18):
Yep, so you touched on another point.
I'm trying to remember thesecond question, whether or not
it's going to be more relevantthere or here, but which is on
like disordered eating, wherethere's not enough conversation
around the fact that I treatintermittent fasting.
So I'll speak more for myselfand, I guess, the boys.
Intermittent fasting is a tool,in the same way that a
screwdriver is a tool and ahammer is a tool.
(06:40):
Right, if you have a nail andyou have a screwdriver, that's a
shitty tool.
So it's understanding yourselfand trying to be a little bit
more interoceptive andunderstanding like is this a
model that works well for me,where some people just naturally
they don't really like eatingbreakfast and they don't like
having to put calories in theirbody early in the day and they
(07:01):
feel fine?
And if that's who you are, thenintermittent fasting is going
to be something that justprobably resonates with you and
is going to be a good solution.
It's going to be a better toolfor you.
Danielle Pellicano (07:10):
Here's why it's so nice to be a man.
You guys, you are going to gothrough stored glucose in a
fasted state first.
That would be a dream come truefor women.
It is completely not that way.
For women, we tap into bloodsugar, free fatty acids and
amino acids first, which are allthings you want.
So when you are now going intofasted cardio and why I'm saying
(07:30):
it, I have to re-impact from anexercise standpoint.
Is the people asking us thesequestions are gym goers Right?
They're working out every day.
So I'm going to approach theconversation and the answer that
way.
You are going to end up as afemale coming in in a fasted
state.
You are going to burn most ofyour metabolically active tissue
, which is your lean muscle mass, to fuel the activity, and it's
going against all of what weare doing as trainers.
(07:53):
We're trying to get themstronger.
We're trying to keep thatmuscle mass as you age, because
that's just starting to tick offalready.
Parker Condit (08:13):
So for me, I'm going to stay firm on the.
I don't like intermittentfasting for women and for your
conversation, for men iscompletely different because you
completely benefit from it.
A lot of people probably heardof, when you're doing cardio,
the fat burning zone, yes, whichis the highest rate of fat
oxidation.
But it's not saying like allyou're burning is fat, because
you're never just burning fat,it's always a combination, but
it's your highest rate ofburning fat.
(08:34):
A lot of people when you hearthat, instinctively they think,
oh, I'm burning body fat.
So if you go in the gym and yougo on a treadmill somewhere on
there, on there it's gonna say,oh, here's your fat burning zone
.
Most people think they'reburning body fat.
You're burning free fatty acids.
You need to be working for likean hour plus to get to stored
body fat.
So that is always poorlycommunicated and always people
are like but I'm doing fatburning zone, it's like it's
(08:55):
free fatty acids, it's what youhad for breakfast.
Yeah, period, okay, anythingelse on this topic?
Danielle Pellicano (09:03):
no, I like, I like that, I like that.
I'm firm on the no for womenyeah, no, I think it's great.
Parker Condit (09:08):
Yeah, um, oh, I think, touching on um, so even,
yeah, it's like we're prettymuch on the same page of like
intermittent fasting isoverhyped.
Danielle Pellicano (09:17):
But let's answer it this way too time
restricted eating there.
There are huge benefits to it.
I've always said this in ourprofession.
We almost do it accidentallybecause we wake up so early and
we go to bed so early, so we'realmost put into a time
management eating of a 12 hourwindow, not intentionally.
I am so mindful of starting mymetabolism when I can, so I'm
(09:45):
not forcing necessarilybreakfast down my throat at six
in the morning, but two hardboiled eggs, something that
kickstarts it.
That's protein driven.
It's an important habit.
It matters if you are, becauseour conversation about protein
intake for women, if you areeven doing a fasted state, you
are trying to get the proteinintake in a six hour window.
(10:05):
It's never going to happen.
So that in itself makes me notnot like it, right it's.
It requires mindful eating isreally how I talk about it.
Yeah.
Parker Condit (10:16):
So then let's just pretend intermittent
fasting did have all thesebenefits.
There's still the risk ofdisordered eating, which is a
much higher risk amongst womenbut, not uncommon amongst men.
So, like you need as a traineror you as a client, like there
needs to be a lot of boxeschecked for me to say, oh,
you're a great candidate forintermittent fasting, correct?
(10:36):
Okay, let's move on.
Danielle Pellicano (10:38):
Okay, I feel like intermittent fasting is
really talked about, but I feellike eating before a workout
makes me work out better.
What do you recommend eatingbefore a workout, or do you
recommend not eating before aworkout?
Okay, so this question iscoming from Kennedy.
She's a college athlete and sheis 21.
Okay, and she's already talkingabout intermittent fasting.
Parker Condit (11:01):
Great.
Danielle Pellicano (11:05):
But she brought it back around timing of
foods prior to exercise simplecarbs.
Carbs is a killer.
Women hate hearing carbs.
Women should be eating so manymore carbs and protein, but it's
the timing of it that isincredibly important.
I am curious, before I answer,what your thoughts are on timing
of foods prior to exercise.
Parker Condit (11:26):
I'm less precise about it.
I just want somebody to feelgood in the workout.
Danielle Pellicano (11:32):
So, again, because you have a beautiful
mind and I love this, can youexplain what a simple carb is
versus a complex and why asimple carb is what would fuel a
workout but is not somethingyou would want to be eating as
your carb choice throughout theday?
Parker Condit (11:46):
Why don't you go on that?
I'm still trying to think of,like, how I'm going to organize
the rest of my answer.
Sorry, I cut you off, it's okay.
Danielle Pellicano (11:50):
No, go, finish your thought.
Parker Condit (11:52):
Okay, because, like I work with people that are
not as precise.
Like you work with enduranceathletes where it's like fuel
timing, nutrition, that athleteswhere it's like fuel timing and
nutrition, that's all reallypart of your.
I'm more gen pop where, like,the timing of that matters a lot
less.
So I'm much more about teachingpeople like to feel what's
happening within themselves.
So, again, like it goes back towhat kind of what I said in the
(12:13):
first answer, where it's like,if you're a person who naturally
doesn't like eating in themorning, I'm not going to force
them getting they're not eliteathletes to work with.
I'm not going to force them toeat if they don't normally feel
good eating in the morning,because then they're probably
going to have a worse workout.
So it's more from my side ofthings of just teaching people
to feel more confident andlistening to their bodies of
what they want and like exerciseis such a great way to teach
(12:35):
people to learn about themselvesand their body and connect that
with their mind.
So that's more where I takethings.
Danielle Pellicano (12:44):
Agreed, I think from Kennedy's perspective
.
Everyone's trying to have sucha caloric deficit that they
think it's going to be to theirbenefit to come up, to come into
a HIIT workout, thinkingthey're going to always tap into
zone four, completely underfueled.
And once again, if you don'tfuel the exercise that you're
about to do, your body is goingto tap into lean muscle mass.
To fuel it, you need to give itsimple carbs.
(13:07):
The reason for simple carbssimple carbs is a very high
glycemic sugar.
It's not what you would want toever feed on all day.
So it's not your fruits,vegetables, whole grains.
Simple is going to be a bowl ofcereal.
Sounds awful, but it's going togive you this spike in glucose.
It's going to fuel your workout.
It's going to give you energyso that your body's not tapping
into lean muscle mass, which isalways the goal.
(13:29):
And then, post-workout, youwant a again a simple carb with
bookends with protein.
So, for example, it's going tosound so weird.
I might have me personally halfa Snickers, but then I'll have
Greek yogurt and people likethat's an interesting combo but
it's bulletproof.
So I get my simple carbreplenishment but I'm also
(13:50):
getting and starting on therecovery with the protein.
How did you find thatcombination, dr Stacey Sims?
I love her.
Parker Condit (13:57):
I don't feel bad about it, it's a fact.
Okay, so again for anyone,anyone female in the endurance
world generally.
Danielle Pellicano (14:15):
Dr Stacey Sims book is a good reference.
We'll pop it up Telling womenthese are the things that you
need to do if you want to agebetter Not gracefully per se,
but better.
And it's always coming from anendurance standpoint or athletic
background.
Because it's true and you aremore or less just trying to
maintain a lot of your body compstarting in your 40s and going
(14:39):
into your 50s.
It gets much harder.
So you are only going to helpin podcasts like this, giving
that type of information andmessage.
Yep.
Parker Condit (14:48):
I don't have much more to add on that Cause we
like.
Well, starting with, startingwith the broad.
What are your general thoughtsabout intermittent fasting?
I figured we're going to touchon a lot of it.
Yeah, okay, last question.
So my question is there isalways such an emphasis on
post-workout?
Danielle Pellicano (15:02):
protein.
Is there anything we need toknow about what eating before
the workout?
I'm going to simplify this too.
I don't understand why youwould go into a workout not
wanting to have energy and Ithink a lot of people are going
into workouts not fuelingclearly out of the fear of the
(15:22):
calorie deficit, because mostpeople are working out.
This is general pop.
I'm being very honest.
Yep, they want to lose weight,they want to get leaner.
That's their mindset.
One thousand percent they.
I don't know how you can evenhave the energy to finish the
workout if you don't come inwith some calories.
Yep Period.
Parker Condit (15:41):
Yeah.
So I think we kind of touchedon those concepts in the first
two responses of we're.
Again, I'll give.
I'll give, like the, theexception where some people just
feel better.
Danielle Pellicano (15:53):
Right.
Parker Condit (15:53):
Fine If that's you, great.
But just because intermittentis fasting is popular right now
and a lot of people are talkingabout it, I think a lot of
people are gravitating to it,probably inappropriately, so
we've kind of landed on the samepart of fuel.
Yourself beforehand, youalready went over post-fueling
with the types of carbs andbooking on the protein.
(16:16):
But you mentioned weight loss.
Yeah, yeah what are yourthoughts on?
So like?
Exercise is always so closelytied to weight loss.
That's not where I would start.
People Like if we're going totalk about weight loss, it's
walking.
Danielle Pellicano (16:32):
You, you literally have been the reason I
have paid attention to stepcount for over the last year and
a half two years Walkingcrushes.
It's the daily.
What do we call it?
Daily pass what do we call thatword?
Parker Condit (16:45):
I asked you this daily physical activity.
Danielle Pellicano (16:46):
That one is a game changer of weight
management.
Parker Condit (16:49):
Yeah, um, so just to give like, I'll give a study
first and then we can talkabout it.
But there was a study thatlooked at people who had lost
weight at least 10 kilograms so22 pounds, so a a significant
amount of weight and they keptit off for at least 10 years.
So 22 pounds, so a significantamount of weight, and they kept
it off for at least 10 years.
So they looked at that groupand then a group that didn't
lose weight and then a groupthat lost weight but put it back
(17:12):
on.
So there was like three arms tothe study and the group that
kept it off.
The main difference for themwas that they walked a lot.
They averaged, I think, 13,000steps a day.
So the people that lost weightmoved a lot and then they just
never stopped moving their body.
So to underestimate walking iseasy, because it seems very
passive and it seems like, oh,it's something I do every day,
(17:33):
it's kind of like breathingRight.
But the the importance ofwalking can't be understated and
I think it's because if youbuild walking as a daily
practice, then you always havethat.
If life gets busy or after yourseason and you take some time
off and something happens, youget an injury, whatever it might
be.
If you're only relying onexercise, then your weight loss
(18:00):
tool is gone if you drop that.
But if you always have thatunderlying movement practice of
walking a lot every day and justbeing fidgety and active with
your body, then you have that tofall back on.
So, that's why I always startpeople on a foundation of
walking.
Danielle Pellicano (18:11):
Let me ask you something.
What's that number to you?
If someone, if that is a newconcept to them, because this
was asked by a client of minelast week they're like what
should my step count be inbetween workouts?
So I might build out a four-dayvery strict running program?
Yep, they're like, well, whatam I doing the other three days?
What should my step count be?
(18:31):
What are they at in what way?
What's their average step count?
I didn't even ask that, okay,because I I'm just curious like
what do you think that number is?
Parker Condit (18:40):
it depends on the person so I'll give already
active, like already fit I'dstill want to see the number
right because like you so togive an example you can work out
three days a week and still besedentary oh, for sure right.
So if if you're working outthree days a week and you're
walking 4 000 steps a day, Iwould call that person sedentary
(19:00):
okay, so I'm gonna use.
Danielle Pellicano (19:03):
No, I'm gonna use chris, he'll
appreciate this.
Parker Condit (19:04):
I'll give you numbers, but yeah, no, he's a
chef.
Danielle Pellicano (19:07):
He's on his feet Okay Expediting, so not
necessarily maybe saying hi to afew tables.
I am.
He is on a weight loss programwith me.
Parker Condit (19:15):
Okay.
Danielle Pellicano (19:16):
His favorite sport is cycling.
Cool, well, what's a step count?
Because I got him on a Garminwatch and he sees that he can
now see it, which is fantastic.
It's like closing a ring withthe Apple Watch.
What would you set his stepcount at?
Weight loss is his goal,correct?
Parker Condit (19:33):
12?
Yeah, so like 12, understand it, but like I'm kind of just
pulling that out of nowhere.
If I work with people that aregenerally going to be lower,
like if somebody is walking5,000 steps a day, I'm never
jumping them to 12.
Okay, I'm giving them winsearly.
And I would say 2,000 steps isa mile Roughly.
Yeah, you can walk about ahundred steps a minute.
(19:54):
So that's how I think of it.
I adore you.
Danielle Pellicano (19:56):
Round it up for us.
I think 2,000 is a mile.
Yeah, I think that's.
I like that number.
Parker Condit (20:04):
Yeah, All right.
Danielle Pellicano (20:05):
So so here it is I mean you're asking for
six miles a day from that person.
Parker Condit (20:08):
Yeah, that's legit that.
Danielle Pellicano (20:09):
that is, that's changed that.
Parker Condit (20:10):
Now everyone's like oh, in their car driving
right now.
I'm like okay, so if you walkthree minutes a mile, which is
an average walking mats here,right?
Danielle Pellicano (20:21):
I asked one of my clients who is very
sedentary in his job as of lateas of the last six months.
It's been very stressful forhim.
I go on average like what isyour step count right now?
He's like I'm lucky if I get 5000 sucks yeah, so five is
average, I guess but there's no,there's only weight gain
happening is why I say that it'sdemoralizing a little bit.
(20:42):
It's very upsetting.
5 000 is just scraping thesurface.
Parker Condit (20:46):
It feels like it's been proven generally, if
someone's around five, they'reprobably time constricted or
time restrained, correct?
I I try to get them to win at a10 bump.
So if they're at five I'mbumping them to 5500 good to
know right, I'm like besuccessful at this thing where
it's like you can have.
You can have setbacks in yourworkouts a little bit.
(21:07):
They're less frequent, but it'slike I want this person winning
day after day after day afterday.
And like really stacking thathabit.
There's a variety of reasonsfor weight gain beyond just
being sedentary.
That is probably dedicated forits own podcast.
But there's a lot of researcharound 7,000 steps a day.
I think that's a better minimumhealth threshold than 10,000.
(21:28):
By the way, 10,000 steps a daywas a made up number from a
Japanese pedometer company inthe 1960s, so it was a marketing
number.
It's a great.
It's a great number becauseit's high, but it's probably
higher than the threshold forlike health benefits, in that 7,
steps a day has some researcharound or 7500 steps a day for
(21:49):
women and lower incidence ofdepression.
So that's a good threshold.
Yes, I think 8000 steps a dayis a minimum for preventing
weight gain.
So if somebody just wants tomaintain, I put them around
eight and then weight loss hadput closer to 12 or 13.
So those are just some numbersthat people can reference.
Danielle Pellicano (22:08):
I completely agree, it's also mindfulness I
love that word actually becauseto actually hit that goal, to
close that ring, you come homefrom your day, your dog staring
at you.
You're like 2,500 steps.
Shy, we're going on a lap.
Parker Condit (22:21):
Yep.
Danielle Pellicano (22:22):
I'm going to the grocery store.
I step shy.
We're going on a lap yep I'mgoing to the grocery store, I'm
going to park at the very farend versus trying to find the
closest spot.
Those little things throughoutyour entire day, those habits
totally, totally close the ring.
Yep, yesterday, alex, her stepcount was 87 500 for that
everest challenge.
Parker Condit (22:37):
So while we close this out.
Why don't you just describe so?
Danielle Pellicano (22:40):
yesterday one of my clients did the
everest challenge, which is theactual ascent of of everest,
which is 27 000.
I am going to round it to 800.
I could be wrong, I think I'mclose.
So that required nine ascentson aspen mountain.
At the last lap last night itwas 10 30.
We're just doing all themetrics.
(23:02):
That she goes, coach D.
Today I got 87,500 steps.
Yep, that's, I mean, that'sjust so cool yeah that was there
you go.
Parker Condit (23:13):
So yeah, step count, Anything else to close
out on this.
Danielle Pellicano (23:17):
No, I love that we keep hammering the same
message in a good way.
We're very consistent in whatwe think, yep.
Parker Condit (23:23):
Yeah, any other questions from back there?
We're recording this and myaunt and uncle and Malavika are
out there.
Any questions to add on to thisepisode?
Nope, thank you All right,everyone.
Thanks for tuning in foranother episode of On the Floor.
I hope you were able to watchthis one because I wanted to
record here because, as you cansee, it's beautiful here in
(23:46):
Basalt, colorado.
Jim and Kim, thanks for lettingus record here of this
beautiful location.
Love it, danielle.
Danielle Pellicano (23:52):
Thanks for letting us do it Parker, it's
always a pleasure.
Parker Condit (23:54):
Great, All right, thanks everyone.
Hey everyone.
That's all for today's show.
I want and by and watching,especially if you've made it all
the way to this point If you'dlike to be notified when new
episodes are going to bereleased, feel free to subscribe
, and make sure you hit the bellbutton as well.
To learn more about today'sguest, feel free to look in the
description.
You can also visit the podcastwebsite, which is
(24:15):
exploringhealthpodcastcom.
That website will also belinked in the description.
As always, likes, shares,comments are a huge help to me
and to this channel and to theshow.
So any of that you can do Iwould really appreciate.
And again, thank you so muchfor watching.
I'll see you next time.
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