May 14, 2025 • 31 mins
Next up in our series of reviewing classic albums that we somehow previously never really listened to is Joni Mitchell’s “Blue” from 1971. Did it meet its lofty expectations? Watch as hosts E and Tank take a deep dive - their findings might surprise you. 😉 What album have you just never got around to listening to? Let us know in the comments. Watch previous episodes.Please like/follow/subscribe to The Extended Play Podcast.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Believe it or not, we've never really listened to Joni
Mitchell, but we fixed it and we're going to talk about it
today on the Extended Play Podcast with Ian Tank.
Welcome to the extent of the Play podcast.
He is EI am Tank and this is a music discussion show without
(00:24):
the hipster snobbery, is it not?It is right, absolutely.
We are not hip hipster certified.
No, because. If we were, we would have been.
Oh, Joni Mitchell Blue. Like classic.
No, but we didn't fucking know. We didn't know.
So as the man said, we we have kind of a blind spot with I
think maybe you more than me. Yes, Which I'm going to get into
in a minute. Yeah, sure.
(00:45):
I got a whole. I got a whole.
When I have notes, you know, there's good shit coming.
OK. But yeah, Joni Mitchell Blue.
I think most people would critics intelligentsia would say
top 100 albums of all time. Yeah, I think it's rim Rolling
Stone. I think it's two top five.
It's it's top five at least. Yeah, so definitely.
So we gave it a listen, which, you know, arguably again, having
(01:08):
a music podcast we should have already done, but we're, oh,
it's sorry, it's classic. Classic Ketchup is our series of
episodes where we check out an album that for whatever reason
we never got around to listeningto and we talked about it in the
We've already done Elton John, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.
I'll do a link to that over there.
I yeah. And so and it's going to be
(01:28):
primarily stuff from the 70s, which because right about the
time we were right before we were born or like when we were
infants or small children where we weren't listening at a whole
lot of new music, or at least our parents weren't maybe I
think. Maybe 8485 is when we started to
consume Yeah, music, not alcohol.
Yeah, I mean. I mean sneak a little.
Here and there. That's right.
Yeah. So we might, we might dip into
(01:50):
the early 80s, we might go back to the 60s, but the, the, the
meaty center of it's going to bethe 70s.
Yeah, yeah. And I was excited to get to
this. I know you'll talk about it in a
minute. Like your experience with Joni
Mitchell. I had basically 0 coming in.
I knew this is going to be embarrassing.
The the Joni Mitchell I knew wasfrom what's the name of the
movie Love Actually in Love Actually, you probably never.
(02:15):
Tank is not a movie guy. Yeah, famously I.
Should do a movie podcast. Just every episode, every
running gag is like, didn't see it.
No idea, it looks like it's about.
This looks good. I see one or two movies in the
theater here. So Love Actually, there's a
character in the movie who is a huge Joni Mitchell fan and when
(02:36):
in a couple of very poignant scenes plays some Joni Mitchell
songs. I think she plays both sides now
is the one she plays, which is abeautiful song.
I I really liked it, but I've never went in depth on that
album, which I think is also called Both Sides now, which I
think is later. In her career, but no.
It's not both sides, no. It's not both sides, no. 1st,
it's on her first, so I did a little dive on the discography.
(02:56):
Okay, Part of the problem I think for us is it's the same
problem when we talked about thetop 100 albums of all time.
Yeah, you know, we talked about how some artists have their
great hits spread out over to same thing, right?
So like Both Sides Now is on herfirst.
Wow. OK Big Yellow Taxi is on the
second one, I think. OK Basically all the songs you
(03:18):
know her for are on different albums.
Got it. Had they been on one album, OK,
I think we would have listened to that album.
Got it, got it. That makes sense.
Maybe I'm picturing the the movie though.
Maybe she re recorded it and she's listening to a re recorded
version. There is an album called Both
Sides Now in 2000 where she did it with a Symphony.
That's got to be it. That's got to be what I'm
thinking of. Wikipedia right here.
Anyway, I, I that was, that was all I knew.
(03:39):
So this was and I, I recognize her voice.
I know Big Yellow Taxi. Of course everyone knows that
song, but. Joni Mitchell never never, never
lies, yo. Joni Mitchell never lies.
That's right. I listened to it in first in two
settings. I got through the 1st 5 songs
and then something happened. I couldn't listen anymore but
after 5 songs and I'll explain why I did this, I went to the
record store and I bought the album which is right behind me.
(03:59):
Nothing really to remarkable about remarkable about this
version. It's the gatefold, but it's got
the lyrics which nice love love love love.
Big enough to read and it's got some decent album credits.
You can tell who the players are.
So which is important. I think we should talk about
briefly at least who's on the album besides Joni Mitchell.
So anyway. Yeah, my, my history, Yeah.
(04:21):
Is rather odd in terms of being introduced to her.
So. OK, do you know how I'm going to
give you one? Guess you're not going to get
it, but it's makes for good content.
OK. How I was introduced to Joni
Mitchell, Tori Amos. No, close, though.
OK. Close.
Through another artist think same time frame.
Same time. That I was a big fan of.
(04:43):
Joni Mitchell. Not female.
Tori Amos Big fan of in the sametime frame as Tori.
Nineish. Nineish Nails?
No, no. It was seal.
British seal, OK. So I was I was on a big seal
kick in the 90s. You wouldn't, you wouldn't
believe it, but he really was. Unironically, no.
(05:04):
I mean like, yeah, exactly like prayer for the dying.
Like all that shit man. Seal 2 is I got I got into it.
Still pissed about Kiss for a Rose.
It's a great song. No, that was my jam.
Oh yeah. Oh, OK, got.
It and I was like, I had the album, like this song is
incredible. This is going to be like the
song I play at my wedding. Yeah, yeah, this is my song.
I want to be like, Oh my God, where did he find that beautiful
song? Fast forward six months.
It's everywhere. And becomes the Batman thing.
(05:27):
It's kind of a meme, yeah. Yeah, it kind of sucks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so overplayed to the point
that it is a meme. I like the Super Bowl commercial
anyway. And then I went back to the the
first album, which is much more dancy, popular, whatever Seals
fantastic human being great underrate Elm.
Check it out. But on that second album,
there's a song called If I Couldyou know, beautiful song.
OK, piano driven I. Think I remember it, yeah.
(05:48):
And Joni is on it. Oh, OK.
So my introduction is I'm. I'm a big SEAL fan.
It's 1994. Yeah, sure.
And I'm like, oh, there's this chick, Joni Mitchell.
OK, all I know she's young and current, right?
And I'm like, and. And she, her voice sounds great
on that. And because her voice to me
sometimes sure sounds great there.
(06:08):
Trevor Horn produced beautifullyproduced music.
Of course. Yeah, and Seal returns the favor
really the same year on her album Turbulent Indigo.
Oh, OK, so I go buy it. Oh, cuz I'm like, OK, well,
sure. This joint Mitchell person we
used to do. That a lot.
That was a fun thing to do, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and Seal was on a song called How do you Stop?
OK. And like, since I was a big SEAL
(06:30):
head at the time, I don't know if that's the thing, but it is
now. So I thought she was a 1990s
artist. Oh, OK, didn't know.
That's so funny. And then like over the years
that would follow, it's like, oh, this classic Joni Mitchell
song. Is that the same Joni Mitchell?
Like what was Seal? God, it's amazing what life was
like without the Internet, people.
I mean, you have no idea. Seriously.
Seriously no idea. Because.
(06:50):
It's like 95 yeah, I'm just, I'mnot going to go to the library.
I'd be like, I'll give a book ofJoni Mitchell, you know the the
seal check, right. So anyway, so from that I I
really think this was a BMG Record Club purchase.
Oh cool, OK, remember like. 8 CDs for a penny?
Yeah absolutely. Only it was going to be like a
living hell for your life for the next year.
(07:11):
Jesus. Like you get a cassette in the
mail every month? Like God damn it I forgot to
cancel. It they were $17.00 cassettes,
right? Which is how they made-up, yeah.
But anyway, I did get Four of the Roses, which I randomly
picked. OK, It's like, OK, here's a
bunch of old. So Four of the Roses was, I
think the third or fourth album.It's right after Blue.
It's a year after Blue. OK, so this is the fourth, so
that would be the 5th. Yes, so all that to say, it
(07:36):
heavily colors my perception of this help.
Interesting because I am alreadyvery very familiar for the roses
I listen to a lot. Wow, okay.
And I've never listened to the classic.
Before that's so. Funny, so very few people
probably have this bias that I have right of comparing it to
the one that came after. This is going to be funny.
(07:56):
This is where this is not going to work for social media.
I'm going to, I'm going to chop this up and try to tell people
like what our opinion was of this album for social media.
This explanation's not going to fly.
So people are going to be like, what are these idiots talking
about? How do they not know any of this
stuff? But This is why.
For those same fucking snobs, yeah, let's talk about For the
roses, bitch, I bet I know better than you do.
(08:17):
Sorry, you don't know the. Deep cuts.
You could do a whole separate episode, right?
Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, OK, so you so
you've got a lot of Yeah, I think it was 2 years she was
doing albums like every. Two years.
The year after this is 71. For the Roses was 72.
OK, cool. Yeah.
So you want to start with first impressions or how did we do
this last time? Did we do like?
I don't know. Awesome.
(08:38):
It don't matter. No, none of this matters.
That's true. It doesn't.
We did say we were going to do athing where we pick.
We made it a little bit of a competition, yes.
Right. Well, it's a gentlemanly way,
Yeah. It's a competition.
Just trying to add your bats in case you lose again, yeah.
Yeah, I'm going. I'm going to lose.
So we did say that we in this classic catch up.
(08:59):
We were going to rotate picking albums.
And then from there, the guy that picked it, yeah, would have
to hazard a guess. Yeah, as to the other person's
three favorite songs? Yes.
OK, so I have marked my three favorite.
Yeah, that will be at the end ofthe episode, which you should
wait for because it's going to be exhilarated.
It will be. And we also give our overall
(09:20):
opinion. We don't give it a rating
because who the fuck are we, right?
But we can say better than I expected about what I expected,
or worse than I. Expected.
Yep, Yep, absolutely. And for the record, I think
Elton John I said was worse thanI expected.
I believe or no, you said it waswhat you said, what I expected.
Which surprised me. I said better than expected,
which is not surprised. Me I basically.
Got my seat wet talking about that album.
Yeah, yeah. So I guess we'll start.
(09:42):
Let's get going. That's a perfect place to go.
This was such a wildly differentexperience for me than listening
to Yellow Brick Road. It's pretty much the antithesis
of vibe. Absolutely, and it's everything
that I did not like about goodbye yellow brick road is
what I liked about this album and I you can look go back to
the episode I talk and over and over again about being over
(10:04):
produced, having you know, like I don't like the sound of the
drums. There's virtually no drums on
this album at all. Anyway, I talked about liking
ADIY sounding the looseness and this has that sound.
I mean it. It's.
Still. I think to me it sounds more
timeless, even though, you know,for sure.
(10:24):
Yeah, I, I struggle with that idea though, because I'm like,
if this was, if this came out now, I don't think people would
listen to it generally. You know, they don't have the
patience. They don't have the patience.
Yeah, that's a good point. They don't have the patience for
it. And it's just doesn't sound
that. The style of music isn't from
the from the era, but as far as sonically, I think it sounds
fantastic. Yeah.
So like I said, listen to the first five songs and I'm like, I
(10:45):
have to go out and get this, getthis album.
I I was frankly blown away. I I really was.
I was so pleasantly surprised at, you know, I don't know, I, I
had no expectations. I think that was really helpful.
Yeah. All I knew is she was a great
songwriter, you know, by reputation, a great guitar
player by reputation. And I got those things.
So I was right away. I'm like, OK, that's evident,
(11:09):
but not such a great songwriter in that the sort of like where
she's obtuse and you can't get what she's getting.
At yeah, I think that was hit ormiss.
OK, I, I think for me, the lyrics somewhere, I mean, again,
it's good vague or bad vague. Yes, yes.
And it's weird. She has this real kind of
literal vagueness she does, where it's like it's very
descriptive, but you're not surewhy.
(11:30):
Yeah, you're 1. I definitely spent a lot of time
wondering how much of this is about her and how much is a
character and that that I struggle with a little, but that
I can give some background information if you got a minute.
OK. OK.
So I listen to a couple podcastsabout this album.
I listen to the Sound Opinions one.
I've never, I don't know if you ever listened to Sound Opinions,
someone from Chicago, Jim D Rogatis and Greg Kott.
It's been on for 25 years. Great podcast.
(11:52):
Another 2 white dudes but just older white dudes and they never
talked about it. So they did a full episode on it
and they had a couple guests. They had a biographer and
someone else who wrote an an article in the ringer.
Anyway, they give a lot of background information.
So some context. So fourth album that's correct.
She was already a pretty big star at this point in sort of
the folk world. And this is a shift for her
(12:14):
tonally and lyrically where it'smore a lot more personal.
OK, this comes right after a moment when her previous album
came out and she's got a bunch of hits to her name already
where she is not feeling great about being a * and she moves to
Europe and like literally lives in a cave in Greece for a little
while. OK, and lives as.
As one does as. One does this is 19691970.
(12:36):
This is she's full hippie, right?
She's like like, it's literally a cave.
Not like OK, so she learns to play the dulcimer there and in
between she's she's having a she's in and out of a bunch of
relationships, famously with a bunch of famously with a bunch
of famous people. I was.
Going to say she sounds like shelike every male, Yeah, in that
(12:56):
time. Frame and that they talk a lot
about which I really appreciate,which is like that was public
knowledge at the time and it shaded no pun intended with
blue, but it shaded all the media coverage of it in a way,
in a way that it doesn't for menat the time where men can just
have conquests all over the place.
And it's like, well done, right?Like he like me.
(13:22):
Yeah. So Graham Nash, Leonard Cohen, a
number of people she's romantically involved with with
so. So there's some.
So. Well, I'll talk about that in a
little bit. There's some speculation that
some of these songs are about those relationships.
There's also an experience she has that doesn't get exposed
until the 90s, which is that shehad a child and she gave it up
for adoption and that again, even in the 90s is sort of like
(13:46):
a drag her. Through so it happened to the
90s or it came out the 90s that she did in the 70s.
Yes, yeah. And so and they also still the
90s, but they're still kind of dragging her through the mud for
it. Like this is a terrible thing
for you to do, right. Which that again, that story
will come up later because one of these songs is clearly about
that experience. And I remember listening to it
and thinking this had to have happened to her.
(14:08):
It seemed too personal. Or maybe she's just that good of
a songwriter. Turns out it sounds it sounds
like that this is probably something that happened to her.
So what other background knowledge?
So yeah, the reviews for this album, it wasn't highly
reviewed. This was a slow burn in
popularity. It like went platinum in like
1974, went double platinum in like the 90s and then like the
(14:31):
2000s goes triple platinum. So it like it's influenced like
for whatever reasons. I think the Lilith Fair is one
of those things that kind of brought where it was like a
different opinion of women as women as songwriters, kind of
elevated her her stature. And and her going through the
Wikipedia discography, like it seems like her career was she
would have a genre like folk, yes, kind of go through it.
(14:53):
And then she got more into like jazz and avant-garde in the late
70s. Yeah, she tried some things in
the. A lot of people regret what they
did in the. 80s I think so, I think.
So in general, yes. And then sort of, you know,
brought it back all the way backaround back in the 90s, and it's
kind of been kind of Joni Mitchell Sensen and really
wrapped up her recording kind ofby 2000.
(15:14):
Yeah. I think there were a few more,
but it's kind of, you know. Yeah, right.
Flame was dying out. But like most sort of musical
geniuses, they get bored. They get bored really easily and
they shift gears a lot. Bowie, Dylan, all these, all
these people so. Vanilla Ice.
How did that come to mind? I don't know.
That's amazing. Something funny, but he actually
(15:35):
did. He did.
He went like Hard Rock right after the first.
Couple Machine Gun Kelly? Sure.
Famously. Just any other white guy with
you know? I mean, it's the Mount Rushmore,
essentially of singer-songwriter.
And of douchebags. Anyway, so that's the context,
which was helpful after the fact, but it didn't.
I didn't need any of that information as I listened to the
(15:56):
album I enjoy just enough so. So, Olivier, you have track by
track notes. I do have track by track notes.
I don't need to go through trackby track.
OK, we don't need to spend a lotof time, but yeah, so all I want
is the first track. Yes.
And it's again, it's funny cuz I'm like, it's close to what I
expected based on four of the. Roses.
OK, got it. Cuz again, this is my perception
of what she is at this point. Sure.
(16:17):
My old man, which was I think a little bit better again, had
that kind of sound. Little Green was a little less
harsh, I think. Okay, we should talk about.
That one of the things I don't, some of it, whether it's the way
she is singing on a particular song, maybe the way the
arrangements are, it's just it'sa little, it's hard.
(16:39):
Yes, so her vocal style, just her vocal style and the tambour
of her voice, she has incrediblerange, but the range, she shows
that range in such compact amounts of time.
So in one verse, not verse, but one line of a verse, her voice
could be down here and then way up here and it bounces up and
down and up and down. And I think that is what causes
(17:01):
a little bit of the the harshness on the ear I actually
wrote down. I think you'll appreciate this.
She does it mostly to good effect.
Where we saw it not used to goodeffect was a couple times on the
Waxahachie album from last year.Yes, oh Jesus, where it's like
ice cold. Yes, it's the dramatic from the
from this tone to this tone way up high.
(17:21):
Yeah, I I totally agree. Like Waxahachie isn't Joni
Mitchell. She's not for a number of
reasons, but yeah. But but, but that's that's one
of those things where it's like,not everyone can do it.
Not everyone can do it. That's right.
And I did, sorry, and I know I'minterrupting here, but that did
right away. I'm like, this is not fit for
modern sensibilities, that styleof singing.
(17:42):
I mean, I think it's just not where we are for whatever.
I mean, we're in, we're in auto tune.
Sorry. Think about that.
If you auto tune Joni Mitchell voice, right, that thing would
go nuts. You break auto tune because
she's fucking all over the placeThat could.
Find a bit of a. Stroke.
Somehow that's right. Anyway.
OK. So you were saying about Little
Green? Yeah.
And then I mean, the next track is called Carrie, which I did
not like at all. OK.
(18:02):
It's like a jaunty storytelling.Yeah, I don't I don't like that
version of Joni Mitchell. OK all.
Right. I mean, it's definitely more up
tempo. There's background singers.
Yeah, for the first time, Yeah. Not my jam.
And then blue is the next track.Very piano driven, yes.
And sonically, I think a little fuller.
Yes, totally agree, I said it was so Tori Amos.
(18:23):
Vocally, yes, Even the tambor, her voice, like if you close
your eyes like I went, I did have my eyes closed.
I wasn't looking. But you think they, like, went
to the same coach, Vocal coach, Yeah.
Oh, for sure. And then so California now I was
listening to this on Spotify, soit's impossible to not notice
the number of streams. Oh, OK.
(18:44):
And then be like, oh, apparentlythis was so California was must
have been a big hit. I didn't know that.
I thought right. I thought River was a big hit.
OK, no. So I mean, I think the.
Stream streams go stream. Wise a case of you OK which is
the second or last song hit 10 times the streams of any other
song wow of most of the songs OKthat was like 120 million OK
(19:08):
California was like 80 million OK and then the rest were under
20 huh so I mean those must havebeen the singles yeah let.
US know, jump in the comments ifyou're a Joni Mitchell expert or
a fan. Like if you didn't know anything
about Joni Mitchell. Yeah, please.
Can you imagine? Yeah, stranger things have
happened. Hi, Joni.
Hi yeah so that one, but I didn't like it.
(19:30):
Okay, it's again. It's the.
California, that is. Yeah, okay.
I think it's the cheeky social commentary I don't like.
Okay. I'm not interested, plus I
wasn't around in 1971 so it's like doesn't do anything for me.
Yeah, that's probably. I wrote that down too.
That's a problem I had with Goodbye Olympic Rd. is all the
pop culture references. She talks about.
Give peace a chance, Right. So he's got a Beatles quote she
(19:50):
said. Talks about somebody reading
Rolling Stone in Vogue magazine.Yeah, it was a little too.
Yeah, I don't know. Whatever.
Yeah, but then you know this flight tonight, River, a case of
you and the last time I saw Richard shout out to Detroit in
the last. Time.
I know that was a surprise. Yeah, she's in a bar in Detroit
in 1968. I don't know if that's I don't
know if there's a riot referenceobliquely.
Because 68 Yeah. For our viewers joining us, like
(20:12):
not who didn't grow up in Michigan, 1968 is the second big
race riot. Basically, our parents
generation lived through that. But yeah, the And River is a
Christmas song, kind of. It is kind of a Christmas song
and I did know River. I, I didn't mention that in the
intro. I did know the song River from
Christmas because I because if we have a whole episode on
holiday songs, which I'll link to over there, it's audio only.
(20:34):
But myself, Tank and Mrs. my wife talk about our favorite
holiday songs and we listen, I listen to a lot of holiday music
and and River comes on that OK playlist.
Yeah, highlights for me, like right away, the opening track,
All I want that sound. I look, so I'm looking in the
liner notes there and it says that James Taylor's playing
guitar on the first track. And I'm like, oh, I'd already
(20:55):
noted that like, oh, I really like this guitar sound.
It actually wasn't him. It was the dulcimer.
It's and that has that particular, I don't know if it's
tinny metallic sound, even though it's not a metallic
instrument. I really like that sound.
And she and she brings it. It comes in and out of a lot of
tracks. But yeah, overall, I really, I
(21:16):
don't know if you, I never know if you'll agree with me on this.
I really like the sequencing of this album.
I really like like one song. No songs blend into each other,
but they're not such dramatic shifts that you're like what the
fuck happened? No, I agree.
I yeah, I, I mean, I think the last time I saw Richard is the
perfect song to end it on. I agree.
Yeah. And yeah, I, I think it, it's,
(21:37):
it's. Paced well, thinks I recognize
overall a lot of a lot of descriptions like if we're gonna
compare this again to goodbye Yellow Brick Road, which I had a
problem with the the treatment of women in the lyrics.
This I really like because it issuch a balanced view of
relationships where she talks about a a lot about the joy of
being in a relationship and thisthis person she's with, but also
(21:59):
how hard it is and the mistakes that she either she makes or he
makes. If someone takes off on on her,
she takes off on somebody else. It's very balanced.
It's very nuanced and I just really appreciate it.
I thought that was really. Really great, Which sadly at the
time was probably controversial.Absolutely it was right.
For sure to even dare talk aboutthe non male point of view.
About it, right? Exactly because.
(22:20):
She thinks she is. Yeah, exactly.
Lyrically, some lyrical highlights for, I don't know, we
need to point out lyrical highlights.
She does at times have a way with words.
Sometimes it's just a straightforward storytelling,
and then there'll be a burst of poetry in the middle of the
storytelling, which I really think is kind of cool.
Yeah. You want to do favorite tracks?
(22:40):
Well, yeah. But then first, well, you got to
guess mine, yes, because otherwise I'd be kind of giving
it away. So the for the for the viewers
at home here the the idea is that since he picked it, he has
to guess which three of the songs I liked the best.
Yes, and I am already O for one because I thought you'd like
Carrie. And so my guess is that you like
(23:08):
I actually wrote it down. I thought I wrote literally
wrote the word tank next to songs I thought you would like.
And now I can't find where I didthat.
OK, little Green. No, it was close.
OK. And then a case of you no.
(23:28):
God, it was also close river, no?
Wow. This hold on, this is impressive
in its absence. Keep going.
I mean because, because there's only, there's only. 11 tracks,
11 Yeah stop numbering them. 1010 songs.
Yeah, OK. How about Jesus Christ Blue?
(23:51):
No, you just said you didn't like blue.
No, I do. Oh, you do?
I did like it. Blue.
OK. So I'll put it.
Took me a while here, Jesus. So this flight tonight I had his
number one display. Tonight.
OK, Yeah. It's just I there's something
with the vibe and she's talking about going somewhere.
OK. I think I always like those kind
of songs. OK, Number 2 was Blue.
OK and #3 was the last time I saw Richard.
OK. I I love the lyrics in the story
(24:15):
of that one. OK yeah, yeah.
So it was those 3. So 0 points for you.
Excellent. Which I feel good about.
Yeah, it's ass. It's absolute.
Ass My guess is yes. OK, my favorite tracks.
Sure. OK, not any of those.
OK, so we have different favorite, favorite tracks.
I really like little Green. I really liked, I really love, I
(24:35):
loved river. I love river and I liked it
ahead of time and I think I put a star next to all I want and
next to blue so I so I would go river, blue, little green.
OK, so so blue is our common point there.
And Little Green is the song, ifyou go back and listen, is the
song about her giving up a baby.And then yeah.
(24:59):
So that's the one I think is directly influenced by your
experience. So.
But yeah, I really again, to be this sort of sonically diverse
and it's not sonically diverse. I think that's the wrong way to
put it. Yeah.
So I'm that's yeah, that's a bigpoint of mine.
Yeah. I mean, I think each song sounds
different enough, yet it's all cohesive.
(25:21):
It's definitely an album, But from track to track, again, it
changes just enough. So you go from a track that's
just acoustic guitar to a track that's just piano and back,
forth, back forth, back forth. And that kept me on my feet
enough where I really enjoyed it, Yeah.
So overall, what is your? I think I can guess but.
It's way better than I expected,way better.
(25:42):
Like, I don't know, I don't listen to folk music generally
like and we we talk about 70s ora blind spot for me, that's kind
of why we're doing part of why we're doing this.
But even 60s folk, I don't, I don't, I'm not a big Simon and
Garfunkel person. That might come up later.
And this isn't necessarily folk music, but it comes out of that
tradition pretty close, though. This is not like, again, I heard
(26:04):
Tori Amos in this. I hear eventually, like Elliot
Smith. I heard a lot of Nick Drake in
this. If you like this and you want to
sort of like a male point of view Nick, those Nick Drake
records, which he's got to be heavily influenced by her, Yeah,
are essential. You got to check those out.
So yeah, way better than I expected.
Way better. Yeah, I was disappointed.
Wow, OK. But again, this was all the way
(26:26):
back to how I opened this. Sure, I had an expectation.
OK, so if if you have a an artist that you are familiar
with spotty parts of their catalog and there's an old album
that you like of theirs and you and you hear that there's this
classic all time great that it was right.
Before it, yeah. You're like, it's gonna be so
much better than the one. I know, right?
(26:46):
Right, Right. Right.
And it just wasn't huh. I I think I mean again, it's,
it's very difficult because being so yeah, experienced in
one and then a couple listens ofanother.
Plus nostalgia, right? Right.
But. Yeah, I thought with all the
hype, I was going to feel or hear something that really
caught my attention and I just Ijust didn't.
OK, all right. And there you can, you know,
they're good songs. You know, the passion is there.
(27:08):
Yes. I just, I, I think for the
Roses, the title track to me, I I enjoy much more than any of
the songs on this album. Right.
OK, so now I think it's more consistent for the roses.
I can see why it's a better. Album I see.
But if you smush them together, I think the top two or three
that I pick would come from the other album.
So it was hard for me to get like, that's fair.
(27:29):
Super stoked. Now, my biggest issue with it, I
think, is, OK, but why? Why put further roses aside?
What is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
With all her songs is that 10 seconds in, you know exactly how
the whole song is going to sound.
Interesting. There is.
There's no build, there's no progression.
That's really interesting and. It's like, here's a story, yeah.
(27:50):
And this is how the music is gonna go.
Yeah, there's one song where sheintroduces A pedal steel and
that was, I was like, it's something different musically,
sonically. That's a valid point, and.
I realized this is a me thing because if you look at the stuff
that I do get excited about, Metallica, 9 minute long songs,
you don't know where it's. Going, rise, fall, all sorts of
yellow brick road. Yeah, absolutely.
(28:11):
That's why I like it. It's like OK here for a friend,
love, lies, believe, what the fucks.
Going on for 11 Jamaica Jerk off.
Can't forget the Jamaica jerk off.
But I mean, I realize that's very much a personal preference.
Totally. I want, I want, I want a
journey. And that's the thing, you know,
not that we need to put this disclaimer on it, but we are not
music journalists. We're music obsessives, music
fans. This is the kind of review
(28:33):
you're gonna get from us. It's solely based on a yeah,
sort of. Objectively, it's a great album.
It's a great album, we know. That for all those reasons.
But personally, why do we like it or not like it?
I think that's absolutely a faircriticism for sure.
Yeah, I did. The one thing I thought about is
like when? So I bought the vinyl and I'm
like the album and I'm like, when am I going to listen to it
again? I'm starting to think about that
(28:54):
more and more. I don't know if you think about
that like when you buy an album,because you do buy albums.
You buy the digital versions, like when you're gonna play it,
and you can work to lyrics. So.
Oh yeah, yeah, I cannot work to lyrics.
So that, OK, takes that off the table for me.
So when am I going to put on a Joni Mitchell record?
Because I feel like you have to kind of pay attention.
No. Well, but yes, because the music
(29:14):
isn't doing much of the lifting.Right, right.
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, maybe it's, I
don't know, drinking coffee on arainy day, looking out the
window. I just.
This is probably a whole separate podcast, but the way we
listen to music now in the age of Spotify and with our
attention spans, particularly myown attention to span, which I
(29:36):
find whittling away, there's so little quiet time with music
other than sitting down and taking notes on it.
Like, I'm not going to sit down and take notes on this album
again. So when am I going to really
enjoy it again? And maybe that's a me for sure.
It's a me issue that I need to just fucking go for a walk.
Yeah, there you go. Go for a walk.
Put the headphones in, Yeah, it'll be great.
(29:56):
Yeah, which is how you, that is how I digest a lot of my music
is while walking. Yeah, yeah.
How do you digest music? Let us know in the comments.
Do it. Please give us a like and a
subscribe and a follow or extended play pod on all the
socials. Also, never once have we
mentioned this in the over 110 episodes.
(30:17):
Please give us a rating in ApplePodcast or Spotify.
Yeah, why not 5? Stars, if possible, if you're
enjoying this stuff, we'll. Take 4 honestly.
We'll take any, We'll take any ratings, Yeah.
But yeah, we want to hear what you think.
What do you think of this album?If you haven't, If you're it was
a blind spot for you like it wasfor us and you, you're going to
go and listen to it now. Let us know what you think.
We'd love to have a conversationabout it.
(30:39):
That's kind of the point of this.
It's this conversation and it's that conversation.
So. Yeah.
So we've got. Do we have anything in the
hopper for the next? We do not know.
I'll be picking it. OK.
So probably be from the 70s, probably early 80s.
Yep, it'll be unkempt. Hey, you feel the blanks in your
(31:00):
head? I just.
Jesus. All right.
Unkempt. I can't believe that's a name,
not name of the band. Seriously.
Maybe it will be. Sad expectations, yeah.
Yeah, it's very visual visceral.Yeah.
All right, folks, thanks for watching, especially watching
all the way through here. And we will be back next week
(31:21):
and you'll be seeing more of these classic catch up albums in
the very near future. That's right.
See ya.
Believe it or not, we've never really listened to Joni
Mitchell, but we fixed it and we're going to talk about it
today on the Extended Play Podcast with Ian Tank.
Welcome to the extent of the Play podcast.
He is EI am Tank and this is a music discussion show without
(00:24):
the hipster snobbery, is it not?It is right, absolutely.
We are not hip hipster certified.
No, because. If we were, we would have been.
Oh, Joni Mitchell Blue. Like classic.
No, but we didn't fucking know. We didn't know.
So as the man said, we we have kind of a blind spot with I
think maybe you more than me. Yes, Which I'm going to get into
in a minute. Yeah, sure.
(00:45):
I got a whole. I got a whole.
When I have notes, you know, there's good shit coming.
OK. But yeah, Joni Mitchell Blue.
I think most people would critics intelligentsia would say
top 100 albums of all time. Yeah, I think it's rim Rolling
Stone. I think it's two top five.
It's it's top five at least. Yeah, so definitely.
So we gave it a listen, which, you know, arguably again, having
(01:08):
a music podcast we should have already done, but we're, oh,
it's sorry, it's classic. Classic Ketchup is our series of
episodes where we check out an album that for whatever reason
we never got around to listeningto and we talked about it in the
We've already done Elton John, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.
I'll do a link to that over there.
I yeah. And so and it's going to be
(01:28):
primarily stuff from the 70s, which because right about the
time we were right before we were born or like when we were
infants or small children where we weren't listening at a whole
lot of new music, or at least our parents weren't maybe I
think. Maybe 8485 is when we started to
consume Yeah, music, not alcohol.
Yeah, I mean. I mean sneak a little.
Here and there. That's right.
Yeah. So we might, we might dip into
(01:50):
the early 80s, we might go back to the 60s, but the, the, the
meaty center of it's going to bethe 70s.
Yeah, yeah. And I was excited to get to
this. I know you'll talk about it in a
minute. Like your experience with Joni
Mitchell. I had basically 0 coming in.
I knew this is going to be embarrassing.
The the Joni Mitchell I knew wasfrom what's the name of the
movie Love Actually in Love Actually, you probably never.
(02:15):
Tank is not a movie guy. Yeah, famously I.
Should do a movie podcast. Just every episode, every
running gag is like, didn't see it.
No idea, it looks like it's about.
This looks good. I see one or two movies in the
theater here. So Love Actually, there's a
character in the movie who is a huge Joni Mitchell fan and when
(02:36):
in a couple of very poignant scenes plays some Joni Mitchell
songs. I think she plays both sides now
is the one she plays, which is abeautiful song.
I I really liked it, but I've never went in depth on that
album, which I think is also called Both Sides now, which I
think is later. In her career, but no.
It's not both sides, no. It's not both sides, no. 1st,
it's on her first, so I did a little dive on the discography.
(02:56):
Okay, Part of the problem I think for us is it's the same
problem when we talked about thetop 100 albums of all time.
Yeah, you know, we talked about how some artists have their
great hits spread out over to same thing, right?
So like Both Sides Now is on herfirst.
Wow. OK Big Yellow Taxi is on the
second one, I think. OK Basically all the songs you
(03:18):
know her for are on different albums.
Got it. Had they been on one album, OK,
I think we would have listened to that album.
Got it, got it. That makes sense.
Maybe I'm picturing the the movie though.
Maybe she re recorded it and she's listening to a re recorded
version. There is an album called Both
Sides Now in 2000 where she did it with a Symphony.
That's got to be it. That's got to be what I'm
thinking of. Wikipedia right here.
Anyway, I, I that was, that was all I knew.
(03:39):
So this was and I, I recognize her voice.
I know Big Yellow Taxi. Of course everyone knows that
song, but. Joni Mitchell never never, never
lies, yo. Joni Mitchell never lies.
That's right. I listened to it in first in two
settings. I got through the 1st 5 songs
and then something happened. I couldn't listen anymore but
after 5 songs and I'll explain why I did this, I went to the
record store and I bought the album which is right behind me.
(03:59):
Nothing really to remarkable about remarkable about this
version. It's the gatefold, but it's got
the lyrics which nice love love love love.
Big enough to read and it's got some decent album credits.
You can tell who the players are.
So which is important. I think we should talk about
briefly at least who's on the album besides Joni Mitchell.
So anyway. Yeah, my, my history, Yeah.
(04:21):
Is rather odd in terms of being introduced to her.
So. OK, do you know how I'm going to
give you one? Guess you're not going to get
it, but it's makes for good content.
OK. How I was introduced to Joni
Mitchell, Tori Amos. No, close, though.
OK. Close.
Through another artist think same time frame.
Same time. That I was a big fan of.
(04:43):
Joni Mitchell. Not female.
Tori Amos Big fan of in the sametime frame as Tori.
Nineish. Nineish Nails?
No, no. It was seal.
British seal, OK. So I was I was on a big seal
kick in the 90s. You wouldn't, you wouldn't
believe it, but he really was. Unironically, no.
(05:04):
I mean like, yeah, exactly like prayer for the dying.
Like all that shit man. Seal 2 is I got I got into it.
Still pissed about Kiss for a Rose.
It's a great song. No, that was my jam.
Oh yeah. Oh, OK, got.
It and I was like, I had the album, like this song is
incredible. This is going to be like the
song I play at my wedding. Yeah, yeah, this is my song.
I want to be like, Oh my God, where did he find that beautiful
song? Fast forward six months.
It's everywhere. And becomes the Batman thing.
(05:27):
It's kind of a meme, yeah. Yeah, it kind of sucks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so overplayed to the point
that it is a meme. I like the Super Bowl commercial
anyway. And then I went back to the the
first album, which is much more dancy, popular, whatever Seals
fantastic human being great underrate Elm.
Check it out. But on that second album,
there's a song called If I Couldyou know, beautiful song.
OK, piano driven I. Think I remember it, yeah.
(05:48):
And Joni is on it. Oh, OK.
So my introduction is I'm. I'm a big SEAL fan.
It's 1994. Yeah, sure.
And I'm like, oh, there's this chick, Joni Mitchell.
OK, all I know she's young and current, right?
And I'm like, and. And she, her voice sounds great
on that. And because her voice to me
sometimes sure sounds great there.
(06:08):
Trevor Horn produced beautifullyproduced music.
Of course. Yeah, and Seal returns the favor
really the same year on her album Turbulent Indigo.
Oh, OK, so I go buy it. Oh, cuz I'm like, OK, well,
sure. This joint Mitchell person we
used to do. That a lot.
That was a fun thing to do, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and Seal was on a song called How do you Stop?
OK. And like, since I was a big SEAL
(06:30):
head at the time, I don't know if that's the thing, but it is
now. So I thought she was a 1990s
artist. Oh, OK, didn't know.
That's so funny. And then like over the years
that would follow, it's like, oh, this classic Joni Mitchell
song. Is that the same Joni Mitchell?
Like what was Seal? God, it's amazing what life was
like without the Internet, people.
I mean, you have no idea. Seriously.
Seriously no idea. Because.
(06:50):
It's like 95 yeah, I'm just, I'mnot going to go to the library.
I'd be like, I'll give a book ofJoni Mitchell, you know the the
seal check, right. So anyway, so from that I I
really think this was a BMG Record Club purchase.
Oh cool, OK, remember like. 8 CDs for a penny?
Yeah absolutely. Only it was going to be like a
living hell for your life for the next year.
(07:11):
Jesus. Like you get a cassette in the
mail every month? Like God damn it I forgot to
cancel. It they were $17.00 cassettes,
right? Which is how they made-up, yeah.
But anyway, I did get Four of the Roses, which I randomly
picked. OK, It's like, OK, here's a
bunch of old. So Four of the Roses was, I
think the third or fourth album.It's right after Blue.
It's a year after Blue. OK, so this is the fourth, so
that would be the 5th. Yes, so all that to say, it
(07:36):
heavily colors my perception of this help.
Interesting because I am alreadyvery very familiar for the roses
I listen to a lot. Wow, okay.
And I've never listened to the classic.
Before that's so. Funny, so very few people
probably have this bias that I have right of comparing it to
the one that came after. This is going to be funny.
(07:56):
This is where this is not going to work for social media.
I'm going to, I'm going to chop this up and try to tell people
like what our opinion was of this album for social media.
This explanation's not going to fly.
So people are going to be like, what are these idiots talking
about? How do they not know any of this
stuff? But This is why.
For those same fucking snobs, yeah, let's talk about For the
roses, bitch, I bet I know better than you do.
(08:17):
Sorry, you don't know the. Deep cuts.
You could do a whole separate episode, right?
Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, OK, so you so
you've got a lot of Yeah, I think it was 2 years she was
doing albums like every. Two years.
The year after this is 71. For the Roses was 72.
OK, cool. Yeah.
So you want to start with first impressions or how did we do
this last time? Did we do like?
I don't know. Awesome.
(08:38):
It don't matter. No, none of this matters.
That's true. It doesn't.
We did say we were going to do athing where we pick.
We made it a little bit of a competition, yes.
Right. Well, it's a gentlemanly way,
Yeah. It's a competition.
Just trying to add your bats in case you lose again, yeah.
Yeah, I'm going. I'm going to lose.
So we did say that we in this classic catch up.
(08:59):
We were going to rotate picking albums.
And then from there, the guy that picked it, yeah, would have
to hazard a guess. Yeah, as to the other person's
three favorite songs? Yes.
OK, so I have marked my three favorite.
Yeah, that will be at the end ofthe episode, which you should
wait for because it's going to be exhilarated.
It will be. And we also give our overall
(09:20):
opinion. We don't give it a rating
because who the fuck are we, right?
But we can say better than I expected about what I expected,
or worse than I. Expected.
Yep, Yep, absolutely. And for the record, I think
Elton John I said was worse thanI expected.
I believe or no, you said it waswhat you said, what I expected.
Which surprised me. I said better than expected,
which is not surprised. Me I basically.
Got my seat wet talking about that album.
Yeah, yeah. So I guess we'll start.
(09:42):
Let's get going. That's a perfect place to go.
This was such a wildly differentexperience for me than listening
to Yellow Brick Road. It's pretty much the antithesis
of vibe. Absolutely, and it's everything
that I did not like about goodbye yellow brick road is
what I liked about this album and I you can look go back to
the episode I talk and over and over again about being over
(10:04):
produced, having you know, like I don't like the sound of the
drums. There's virtually no drums on
this album at all. Anyway, I talked about liking
ADIY sounding the looseness and this has that sound.
I mean it. It's.
Still. I think to me it sounds more
timeless, even though, you know,for sure.
(10:24):
Yeah, I, I struggle with that idea though, because I'm like,
if this was, if this came out now, I don't think people would
listen to it generally. You know, they don't have the
patience. They don't have the patience.
Yeah, that's a good point. They don't have the patience for
it. And it's just doesn't sound
that. The style of music isn't from
the from the era, but as far as sonically, I think it sounds
fantastic. Yeah.
So like I said, listen to the first five songs and I'm like, I
(10:45):
have to go out and get this, getthis album.
I I was frankly blown away. I I really was.
I was so pleasantly surprised at, you know, I don't know, I, I
had no expectations. I think that was really helpful.
Yeah. All I knew is she was a great
songwriter, you know, by reputation, a great guitar
player by reputation. And I got those things.
So I was right away. I'm like, OK, that's evident,
(11:09):
but not such a great songwriter in that the sort of like where
she's obtuse and you can't get what she's getting.
At yeah, I think that was hit ormiss.
OK, I, I think for me, the lyrics somewhere, I mean, again,
it's good vague or bad vague. Yes, yes.
And it's weird. She has this real kind of
literal vagueness she does, where it's like it's very
descriptive, but you're not surewhy.
(11:30):
Yeah, you're 1. I definitely spent a lot of time
wondering how much of this is about her and how much is a
character and that that I struggle with a little, but that
I can give some background information if you got a minute.
OK. OK.
So I listen to a couple podcastsabout this album.
I listen to the Sound Opinions one.
I've never, I don't know if you ever listened to Sound Opinions,
someone from Chicago, Jim D Rogatis and Greg Kott.
It's been on for 25 years. Great podcast.
(11:52):
Another 2 white dudes but just older white dudes and they never
talked about it. So they did a full episode on it
and they had a couple guests. They had a biographer and
someone else who wrote an an article in the ringer.
Anyway, they give a lot of background information.
So some context. So fourth album that's correct.
She was already a pretty big star at this point in sort of
the folk world. And this is a shift for her
(12:14):
tonally and lyrically where it'smore a lot more personal.
OK, this comes right after a moment when her previous album
came out and she's got a bunch of hits to her name already
where she is not feeling great about being a * and she moves to
Europe and like literally lives in a cave in Greece for a little
while. OK, and lives as.
As one does as. One does this is 19691970.
(12:36):
This is she's full hippie, right?
She's like like, it's literally a cave.
Not like OK, so she learns to play the dulcimer there and in
between she's she's having a she's in and out of a bunch of
relationships, famously with a bunch of famously with a bunch
of famous people. I was.
Going to say she sounds like shelike every male, Yeah, in that
(12:56):
time. Frame and that they talk a lot
about which I really appreciate,which is like that was public
knowledge at the time and it shaded no pun intended with
blue, but it shaded all the media coverage of it in a way,
in a way that it doesn't for menat the time where men can just
have conquests all over the place.
And it's like, well done, right?Like he like me.
(13:22):
Yeah. So Graham Nash, Leonard Cohen, a
number of people she's romantically involved with with
so. So there's some.
So. Well, I'll talk about that in a
little bit. There's some speculation that
some of these songs are about those relationships.
There's also an experience she has that doesn't get exposed
until the 90s, which is that shehad a child and she gave it up
for adoption and that again, even in the 90s is sort of like
(13:46):
a drag her. Through so it happened to the
90s or it came out the 90s that she did in the 70s.
Yes, yeah. And so and they also still the
90s, but they're still kind of dragging her through the mud for
it. Like this is a terrible thing
for you to do, right. Which that again, that story
will come up later because one of these songs is clearly about
that experience. And I remember listening to it
and thinking this had to have happened to her.
(14:08):
It seemed too personal. Or maybe she's just that good of
a songwriter. Turns out it sounds it sounds
like that this is probably something that happened to her.
So what other background knowledge?
So yeah, the reviews for this album, it wasn't highly
reviewed. This was a slow burn in
popularity. It like went platinum in like
1974, went double platinum in like the 90s and then like the
(14:31):
2000s goes triple platinum. So it like it's influenced like
for whatever reasons. I think the Lilith Fair is one
of those things that kind of brought where it was like a
different opinion of women as women as songwriters, kind of
elevated her her stature. And and her going through the
Wikipedia discography, like it seems like her career was she
would have a genre like folk, yes, kind of go through it.
(14:53):
And then she got more into like jazz and avant-garde in the late
70s. Yeah, she tried some things in
the. A lot of people regret what they
did in the. 80s I think so, I think.
So in general, yes. And then sort of, you know,
brought it back all the way backaround back in the 90s, and it's
kind of been kind of Joni Mitchell Sensen and really
wrapped up her recording kind ofby 2000.
(15:14):
Yeah. I think there were a few more,
but it's kind of, you know. Yeah, right.
Flame was dying out. But like most sort of musical
geniuses, they get bored. They get bored really easily and
they shift gears a lot. Bowie, Dylan, all these, all
these people so. Vanilla Ice.
How did that come to mind? I don't know.
That's amazing. Something funny, but he actually
(15:35):
did. He did.
He went like Hard Rock right after the first.
Couple Machine Gun Kelly? Sure.
Famously. Just any other white guy with
you know? I mean, it's the Mount Rushmore,
essentially of singer-songwriter.
And of douchebags. Anyway, so that's the context,
which was helpful after the fact, but it didn't.
I didn't need any of that information as I listened to the
(15:56):
album I enjoy just enough so. So, Olivier, you have track by
track notes. I do have track by track notes.
I don't need to go through trackby track.
OK, we don't need to spend a lotof time, but yeah, so all I want
is the first track. Yes.
And it's again, it's funny cuz I'm like, it's close to what I
expected based on four of the. Roses.
OK, got it. Cuz again, this is my perception
of what she is at this point. Sure.
(16:17):
My old man, which was I think a little bit better again, had
that kind of sound. Little Green was a little less
harsh, I think. Okay, we should talk about.
That one of the things I don't, some of it, whether it's the way
she is singing on a particular song, maybe the way the
arrangements are, it's just it'sa little, it's hard.
(16:39):
Yes, so her vocal style, just her vocal style and the tambour
of her voice, she has incrediblerange, but the range, she shows
that range in such compact amounts of time.
So in one verse, not verse, but one line of a verse, her voice
could be down here and then way up here and it bounces up and
down and up and down. And I think that is what causes
(17:01):
a little bit of the the harshness on the ear I actually
wrote down. I think you'll appreciate this.
She does it mostly to good effect.
Where we saw it not used to goodeffect was a couple times on the
Waxahachie album from last year.Yes, oh Jesus, where it's like
ice cold. Yes, it's the dramatic from the
from this tone to this tone way up high.
(17:21):
Yeah, I I totally agree. Like Waxahachie isn't Joni
Mitchell. She's not for a number of
reasons, but yeah. But but, but that's that's one
of those things where it's like,not everyone can do it.
Not everyone can do it. That's right.
And I did, sorry, and I know I'minterrupting here, but that did
right away. I'm like, this is not fit for
modern sensibilities, that styleof singing.
(17:42):
I mean, I think it's just not where we are for whatever.
I mean, we're in, we're in auto tune.
Sorry. Think about that.
If you auto tune Joni Mitchell voice, right, that thing would
go nuts. You break auto tune because
she's fucking all over the placeThat could.
Find a bit of a. Stroke.
Somehow that's right. Anyway.
OK. So you were saying about Little
Green? Yeah.
And then I mean, the next track is called Carrie, which I did
not like at all. OK.
(18:02):
It's like a jaunty storytelling.Yeah, I don't I don't like that
version of Joni Mitchell. OK all.
Right. I mean, it's definitely more up
tempo. There's background singers.
Yeah, for the first time, Yeah. Not my jam.
And then blue is the next track.Very piano driven, yes.
And sonically, I think a little fuller.
Yes, totally agree, I said it was so Tori Amos.
(18:23):
Vocally, yes, Even the tambor, her voice, like if you close
your eyes like I went, I did have my eyes closed.
I wasn't looking. But you think they, like, went
to the same coach, Vocal coach, Yeah.
Oh, for sure. And then so California now I was
listening to this on Spotify, soit's impossible to not notice
the number of streams. Oh, OK.
(18:44):
And then be like, oh, apparentlythis was so California was must
have been a big hit. I didn't know that.
I thought right. I thought River was a big hit.
OK, no. So I mean, I think the.
Stream streams go stream. Wise a case of you OK which is
the second or last song hit 10 times the streams of any other
song wow of most of the songs OKthat was like 120 million OK
(19:08):
California was like 80 million OK and then the rest were under
20 huh so I mean those must havebeen the singles yeah let.
US know, jump in the comments ifyou're a Joni Mitchell expert or
a fan. Like if you didn't know anything
about Joni Mitchell. Yeah, please.
Can you imagine? Yeah, stranger things have
happened. Hi, Joni.
Hi yeah so that one, but I didn't like it.
(19:30):
Okay, it's again. It's the.
California, that is. Yeah, okay.
I think it's the cheeky social commentary I don't like.
Okay. I'm not interested, plus I
wasn't around in 1971 so it's like doesn't do anything for me.
Yeah, that's probably. I wrote that down too.
That's a problem I had with Goodbye Olympic Rd. is all the
pop culture references. She talks about.
Give peace a chance, Right. So he's got a Beatles quote she
(19:50):
said. Talks about somebody reading
Rolling Stone in Vogue magazine.Yeah, it was a little too.
Yeah, I don't know. Whatever.
Yeah, but then you know this flight tonight, River, a case of
you and the last time I saw Richard shout out to Detroit in
the last. Time.
I know that was a surprise. Yeah, she's in a bar in Detroit
in 1968. I don't know if that's I don't
know if there's a riot referenceobliquely.
Because 68 Yeah. For our viewers joining us, like
(20:12):
not who didn't grow up in Michigan, 1968 is the second big
race riot. Basically, our parents
generation lived through that. But yeah, the And River is a
Christmas song, kind of. It is kind of a Christmas song
and I did know River. I, I didn't mention that in the
intro. I did know the song River from
Christmas because I because if we have a whole episode on
holiday songs, which I'll link to over there, it's audio only.
(20:34):
But myself, Tank and Mrs. my wife talk about our favorite
holiday songs and we listen, I listen to a lot of holiday music
and and River comes on that OK playlist.
Yeah, highlights for me, like right away, the opening track,
All I want that sound. I look, so I'm looking in the
liner notes there and it says that James Taylor's playing
guitar on the first track. And I'm like, oh, I'd already
(20:55):
noted that like, oh, I really like this guitar sound.
It actually wasn't him. It was the dulcimer.
It's and that has that particular, I don't know if it's
tinny metallic sound, even though it's not a metallic
instrument. I really like that sound.
And she and she brings it. It comes in and out of a lot of
tracks. But yeah, overall, I really, I
(21:16):
don't know if you, I never know if you'll agree with me on this.
I really like the sequencing of this album.
I really like like one song. No songs blend into each other,
but they're not such dramatic shifts that you're like what the
fuck happened? No, I agree.
I yeah, I, I mean, I think the last time I saw Richard is the
perfect song to end it on. I agree.
Yeah. And yeah, I, I think it, it's,
(21:37):
it's. Paced well, thinks I recognize
overall a lot of a lot of descriptions like if we're gonna
compare this again to goodbye Yellow Brick Road, which I had a
problem with the the treatment of women in the lyrics.
This I really like because it issuch a balanced view of
relationships where she talks about a a lot about the joy of
being in a relationship and thisthis person she's with, but also
(21:59):
how hard it is and the mistakes that she either she makes or he
makes. If someone takes off on on her,
she takes off on somebody else. It's very balanced.
It's very nuanced and I just really appreciate it.
I thought that was really. Really great, Which sadly at the
time was probably controversial.Absolutely it was right.
For sure to even dare talk aboutthe non male point of view.
About it, right? Exactly because.
(22:20):
She thinks she is. Yeah, exactly.
Lyrically, some lyrical highlights for, I don't know, we
need to point out lyrical highlights.
She does at times have a way with words.
Sometimes it's just a straightforward storytelling,
and then there'll be a burst of poetry in the middle of the
storytelling, which I really think is kind of cool.
Yeah. You want to do favorite tracks?
(22:40):
Well, yeah. But then first, well, you got to
guess mine, yes, because otherwise I'd be kind of giving
it away. So the for the for the viewers
at home here the the idea is that since he picked it, he has
to guess which three of the songs I liked the best.
Yes, and I am already O for one because I thought you'd like
Carrie. And so my guess is that you like
(23:08):
I actually wrote it down. I thought I wrote literally
wrote the word tank next to songs I thought you would like.
And now I can't find where I didthat.
OK, little Green. No, it was close.
OK. And then a case of you no.
(23:28):
God, it was also close river, no?
Wow. This hold on, this is impressive
in its absence. Keep going.
I mean because, because there's only, there's only. 11 tracks,
11 Yeah stop numbering them. 1010 songs.
Yeah, OK. How about Jesus Christ Blue?
(23:51):
No, you just said you didn't like blue.
No, I do. Oh, you do?
I did like it. Blue.
OK. So I'll put it.
Took me a while here, Jesus. So this flight tonight I had his
number one display. Tonight.
OK, Yeah. It's just I there's something
with the vibe and she's talking about going somewhere.
OK. I think I always like those kind
of songs. OK, Number 2 was Blue.
OK and #3 was the last time I saw Richard.
OK. I I love the lyrics in the story
(24:15):
of that one. OK yeah, yeah.
So it was those 3. So 0 points for you.
Excellent. Which I feel good about.
Yeah, it's ass. It's absolute.
Ass My guess is yes. OK, my favorite tracks.
Sure. OK, not any of those.
OK, so we have different favorite, favorite tracks.
I really like little Green. I really liked, I really love, I
(24:35):
loved river. I love river and I liked it
ahead of time and I think I put a star next to all I want and
next to blue so I so I would go river, blue, little green.
OK, so so blue is our common point there.
And Little Green is the song, ifyou go back and listen, is the
song about her giving up a baby.And then yeah.
(24:59):
So that's the one I think is directly influenced by your
experience. So.
But yeah, I really again, to be this sort of sonically diverse
and it's not sonically diverse. I think that's the wrong way to
put it. Yeah.
So I'm that's yeah, that's a bigpoint of mine.
Yeah. I mean, I think each song sounds
different enough, yet it's all cohesive.
(25:21):
It's definitely an album, But from track to track, again, it
changes just enough. So you go from a track that's
just acoustic guitar to a track that's just piano and back,
forth, back forth, back forth. And that kept me on my feet
enough where I really enjoyed it, Yeah.
So overall, what is your? I think I can guess but.
It's way better than I expected,way better.
(25:42):
Like, I don't know, I don't listen to folk music generally
like and we we talk about 70s ora blind spot for me, that's kind
of why we're doing part of why we're doing this.
But even 60s folk, I don't, I don't, I'm not a big Simon and
Garfunkel person. That might come up later.
And this isn't necessarily folk music, but it comes out of that
tradition pretty close, though. This is not like, again, I heard
(26:04):
Tori Amos in this. I hear eventually, like Elliot
Smith. I heard a lot of Nick Drake in
this. If you like this and you want to
sort of like a male point of view Nick, those Nick Drake
records, which he's got to be heavily influenced by her, Yeah,
are essential. You got to check those out.
So yeah, way better than I expected.
Way better. Yeah, I was disappointed.
Wow, OK. But again, this was all the way
(26:26):
back to how I opened this. Sure, I had an expectation.
OK, so if if you have a an artist that you are familiar
with spotty parts of their catalog and there's an old album
that you like of theirs and you and you hear that there's this
classic all time great that it was right.
Before it, yeah. You're like, it's gonna be so
much better than the one. I know, right?
(26:46):
Right, Right. Right.
And it just wasn't huh. I I think I mean again, it's,
it's very difficult because being so yeah, experienced in
one and then a couple listens ofanother.
Plus nostalgia, right? Right.
But. Yeah, I thought with all the
hype, I was going to feel or hear something that really
caught my attention and I just Ijust didn't.
OK, all right. And there you can, you know,
they're good songs. You know, the passion is there.
(27:08):
Yes. I just, I, I think for the
Roses, the title track to me, I I enjoy much more than any of
the songs on this album. Right.
OK, so now I think it's more consistent for the roses.
I can see why it's a better. Album I see.
But if you smush them together, I think the top two or three
that I pick would come from the other album.
So it was hard for me to get like, that's fair.
(27:29):
Super stoked. Now, my biggest issue with it, I
think, is, OK, but why? Why put further roses aside?
What is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
With all her songs is that 10 seconds in, you know exactly how
the whole song is going to sound.
Interesting. There is.
There's no build, there's no progression.
That's really interesting and. It's like, here's a story, yeah.
(27:50):
And this is how the music is gonna go.
Yeah, there's one song where sheintroduces A pedal steel and
that was, I was like, it's something different musically,
sonically. That's a valid point, and.
I realized this is a me thing because if you look at the stuff
that I do get excited about, Metallica, 9 minute long songs,
you don't know where it's. Going, rise, fall, all sorts of
yellow brick road. Yeah, absolutely.
(28:11):
That's why I like it. It's like OK here for a friend,
love, lies, believe, what the fucks.
Going on for 11 Jamaica Jerk off.
Can't forget the Jamaica jerk off.
But I mean, I realize that's very much a personal preference.
Totally. I want, I want, I want a
journey. And that's the thing, you know,
not that we need to put this disclaimer on it, but we are not
music journalists. We're music obsessives, music
fans. This is the kind of review
(28:33):
you're gonna get from us. It's solely based on a yeah,
sort of. Objectively, it's a great album.
It's a great album, we know. That for all those reasons.
But personally, why do we like it or not like it?
I think that's absolutely a faircriticism for sure.
Yeah, I did. The one thing I thought about is
like when? So I bought the vinyl and I'm
like the album and I'm like, when am I going to listen to it
again? I'm starting to think about that
(28:54):
more and more. I don't know if you think about
that like when you buy an album,because you do buy albums.
You buy the digital versions, like when you're gonna play it,
and you can work to lyrics. So.
Oh yeah, yeah, I cannot work to lyrics.
So that, OK, takes that off the table for me.
So when am I going to put on a Joni Mitchell record?
Because I feel like you have to kind of pay attention.
No. Well, but yes, because the music
(29:14):
isn't doing much of the lifting.Right, right.
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, maybe it's, I
don't know, drinking coffee on arainy day, looking out the
window. I just.
This is probably a whole separate podcast, but the way we
listen to music now in the age of Spotify and with our
attention spans, particularly myown attention to span, which I
(29:36):
find whittling away, there's so little quiet time with music
other than sitting down and taking notes on it.
Like, I'm not going to sit down and take notes on this album
again. So when am I going to really
enjoy it again? And maybe that's a me for sure.
It's a me issue that I need to just fucking go for a walk.
Yeah, there you go. Go for a walk.
Put the headphones in, Yeah, it'll be great.
(29:56):
Yeah, which is how you, that is how I digest a lot of my music
is while walking. Yeah, yeah.
How do you digest music? Let us know in the comments.
Do it. Please give us a like and a
subscribe and a follow or extended play pod on all the
socials. Also, never once have we
mentioned this in the over 110 episodes.
(30:17):
Please give us a rating in ApplePodcast or Spotify.
Yeah, why not 5? Stars, if possible, if you're
enjoying this stuff, we'll. Take 4 honestly.
We'll take any, We'll take any ratings, Yeah.
But yeah, we want to hear what you think.
What do you think of this album?If you haven't, If you're it was
a blind spot for you like it wasfor us and you, you're going to
go and listen to it now. Let us know what you think.
We'd love to have a conversationabout it.
(30:39):
That's kind of the point of this.
It's this conversation and it's that conversation.
So. Yeah.
So we've got. Do we have anything in the
hopper for the next? We do not know.
I'll be picking it. OK.
So probably be from the 70s, probably early 80s.
Yep, it'll be unkempt. Hey, you feel the blanks in your
(31:00):
head? I just.
Jesus. All right.
Unkempt. I can't believe that's a name,
not name of the band. Seriously.
Maybe it will be. Sad expectations, yeah.
Yeah, it's very visual visceral.Yeah.
All right, folks, thanks for watching, especially watching
all the way through here. And we will be back next week
(31:21):
and you'll be seeing more of these classic catch up albums in
the very near future. That's right.
See ya.
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