July 10, 2025 • 28 mins
Episode 166 - Writing Episodic TV: Strategies for Success
In Part 2 of their interview on the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast, Jaclyn continues her conversation with Leilani Downer, exploring contemporary and historical approaches to writing episodic television. They discuss the evolution from the limited network-centric model of the 80s and 90s to today's diverse streaming platforms. Leilani shares insights on writing techniques, the differences between multi-cam and single-cam shows, and the nuances between writing for traditional networks and streaming platforms. She emphasizes the value in producing independent content, and offers valuable tips for getting noticed in the industry. Leilani provides practical advice on networking, pitching, and maintaining creative control through the evolving landscape of television production.
Highlights Include:
- Evolution of Television Writing
- Differences in Television Networks
- Faith and Standards in Television
- Clean Writing for Today's Shows
- Advice for Aspiring Writers
- Opportunities in Independent Production
- Networking and Finding Representation
- Multicam vs. Single-Cam Shows
- Independent Production and Distribution
Bio:
Leilani is an accomplished producer and writer with over 30 years in network television. Her credits include several television shows, including the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Sister Sister, Growing Pains, and a Different World.
More recently, she wrote for Netflix, ‘Julie and the Phantoms’. Leilani has written and sold pilots to major networks and penned feature films, including ghostwriting two books. A Skilled Script Doctor and Educator, She teaches at Asbury University and mentors US service members abroad. Her directorial debut, 'The Arrangement', and her play, 'Don't Panic' highlight her expanding creative work.
Editing by Michael Roth
Content Christian Media Conference: https://www.christianmediaconference.com/
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The Faith & Family Filmmakers podcast helps filmmakers who share a Christian worldview stay in touch, informed, and inspired. Releasing new episodes every week, we interview experts from varying fields of filmmaking; from screenwriters, actors, directors, and producers, to film scorers, talent agents, and distributors.
It is produced and hosted by Geoffrey Whitt and Jaclyn Whitt , and is brought to you by the Faith & Family Filmmakers Association
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jaclyn (00:00):
Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
My name is Jaclyn and I'm excited to be speaking with Leilani Downer today.
This is the second part of our interview, so if you go listen to the previousepisode, you'll get to hear her backstory, how she got into film and television, and.
Her journey was very unique and interesting, and so Iencourage you to go listen to that if you haven't already.
(00:22):
So today I want to get into some of the actual strategiesand writing techniques and how do you write episodic?
how do you write for television?
And so if you could kind of maybe help me out withunderstanding maybe the evolution of where things have gone.
'cause I know that things in the eighties and nineties were done differently than they are today.
(00:45):
Can you help me understand some of the differences?
Leilani (00:47):
Sure.
Um, hi, Jaclyn.
It's nice to be back.
So, yes, it's a different world
in a sense.
In the eighties and nineties, television wasn't as.
Huge as it is now.
you know, they're saying that we're in a golden period of television.
There's so much out there, there's so many avenues of seeing things.
(01:07):
You've got the streamers and you've got networks, and you've got cable and all of the things.
There's just too much stuff.
But back in the day when I started, there were only three networks.
Eventually actually really there became five.
There was the Warner Brothers wb and there was the cw andum, then there were the traditional A-B-C-N-B-C-C-B-S.
(01:31):
And, you know, for, for writers, the struggle was trying to get into one of those networksbecause if you miss those, the chance of you getting a job or getting, um, staffed.
Would have to wait till the next staffing season.
And there are staffing seasons in the business.
Usually, um, in the spring, they start staffing for shows that start being viewed in September.
(01:55):
Now that's the old model because nowadays staffingis, even though that's traditionally staffing season.
Staffing happens all the time because you're not dealing with September premiers.
I don't know if you remember back in the day, Jaclyn, when theyused to say, oh, these shows are coming, and it was a big tradition.
It was a guide would have full spreads and all the shows and things like that.
(02:19):
So that was back in the day.
Today it's a lot different.
There's so much opportunity out there for writers and for writers to create,uh, space for themselves in the entertainment industry and working with shows.
It's good to know what broadcast, uh, or traditionalnetwork show might look like as opposed to a streaming show.
(02:40):
Um, streamers kinda lend themselves a little bit toward the skills you have for beinga feature writer In writing those scripts, you're not writing toward commercials.
There's no commercial breaks and page counts.
Pretty much stay the same for half hour to 60 minute shows, or half hour to full hour shows.
(03:00):
Page counts change all the time.
I don't know if you've ever watched a Netflix show and some of theminutes are, one show can be 32 minutes, another one can be 45.
Jaclyn (03:10):
Yeah.
Leilani (03:11):
They have the ability to do that.
But in, uh, network television, we were a little bit more, uh, stuck with the minuteswe could work with and make sure that we had the act breaks at the right places so that the commercials could run and theme songs were big for shows back then.
One thing I do wanna point out, since you know thisis a lot of us here, um, our faith, and, and know God.
(03:35):
Back in the day, it was such a comfortable place to be in television becauseeveryone was mindful of how things were being presented over the air, and there was, uh, every studio had something called standards and practices.
They would read the scripts and they would make surethat they were wholesome as much as they could.
(03:56):
So you didn't hear a lot of cursing.
There wasn't a lot of innuendo that were out there.
It was very, very rare and very shocking when it happened.
I. And when Fox Television came along, that was another network that came on Horizon.
They started doing more and more things that were a littleon the edge, and we would hear rumors about it on our shows.
(04:20):
Like, you know, they let them say this over at Fox, you know, that kind of a thing.
So as a Christian going into television in the nineties, it was a comfortable space.
I teach at Asbury University.
And I teach my students how to write half hour situation comedies, and I do itfrom a perspective of spec scripts, and we talked about that last time was on air.
(04:45):
The difference between a spec and a pilot, a spec is you'rejust mimicking what's out there, finding a show you love.
I always say find the show you love because you can write that.
And as opposed to a pilot where you create everything yourself.
So when my students are looking for spec scripts, they have a hardtime because they come back to me, they say, there's so much cursing.
(05:07):
They're using the F word, they're doing this, they're doing that.
And we have to figure out, okay, how can you approach thisand yet show people you know how to write for that show?
And there's one, you know, I won't say what the show is, but there wasone particular show where the characters used F words all the time.
And I told my student that I was teaching, I said, think about the character.
(05:32):
Is that a character trait?
That that character has, do they curse all the time like that, ordo you think that that's something that the writer decided to do?
Just to kind of pump it up?
If it's the writer, which it was, you know, 'cause ifyou looked at the show, it wasn't a character trait.
I said, as a writer yourself, think creatively how you can express that person'sanger or that person's shock without going to the same word over and over again.
(06:05):
And I said, you know, things like when using the word dude, come on dude.
You
know
Jaclyn (06:11):
Like no matter what the word is, you need to come up with variety.
Leilani (06:15):
Variety.
Yes.
Use your words.
So that's the difference a lot from when, when I started and then justbeing creative and showing people, yes, I can write, I am a strong writer.
I'm not gonna just, you know, gotta be servicey.
I'm gonna write characters, uh, real feelings andsay things that we would recognize in the real world.
(06:35):
But I can do it in a, a more creative way, um, to get around the things that I wanna write for.
Jaclyn (06:41):
and I know I've seen that too, where I've been watching a show and all of a sudden like this character that had never used foul language in previous episodes in this episode, it's like five times.
I'm like, what is this?
And I, so I know as a writer I'm like, well, I guessthat's the writer's way of writing this character, but.
(07:02):
That's not the character itself.
And then for episodes after that it, it's gone back to the original.
And so, yeah, like you can tell every now and then there's a writer on a projectthat they use, language that the writer is familiar with rather than the characters,
Leilani (07:20):
Exactly.
Jaclyn (07:21):
this character in the other episodes does not have that vocabulary.
Leilani (07:25):
Right.
And if you are specking something, maybe you can get a little creative and,and do a storyline where the character says, I'm not gonna use foul language.
You know, I mean, you know, the storyline is part of that, and that's his struggle.
it could be a, a b story.
You know, the difference between an A story is what carries the entire episode.
And then you allow for your supporting cast or the cast to which the episode is not about.
(07:50):
To be involved in a B story and you could do somethingof that nature to kind of get around that whole thing.
But it's just being creative and figuring
Jaclyn (07:58):
It's like, it's the catch, not the goal.
So yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Okay, so one of the pieces of advice I guess, for writers wanting to get into writing episodic isto write an episode, like a spec script for something that's already written or to write the pilot.
(08:18):
And then is there anything else that would be a benefit for.
Writers, if they're wanting to, let's say if they're wanting to gethired as a writer, or even if they're wanting to produce their own, what?
What are some pieces of advice that you would give?
Leilani (08:34):
Well, I do believe that there's a lot more opportunity for writers out there and ways of doing things if you're interested in producing something of your own.
First of all, if you are interested in episodic television, whetherit's streaming or I. Traditional television, please be a student of it.
Uh, watch it Uh, some people, they want to be doing this, but they don't know what's out there.
(09:00):
Be aware of what's out there and what's kind of popular and where the trends are going.
You know?
'cause there's definite trends in television.
And when a show is very hot, people kind of wanna like go there.
And that's not to say that you have to totally, you know, take somethingfrom somebody else, but you do your version of it If you're writing a pilot, and pilots are a little harder to write because as I said a little earlier, you're creating characters that live in a world that's never been seen before.
(09:30):
So anyway, I, I would say watch, um, episodes.
I would say also read scripts.
There are several online sites where you can get scripts for free, and I would go there and downloadsome scripts and start reading them as to getting your work seen and heard and all of that.
There's a couple things you can do.
I'm not, uh, shy about writers kind of entering into festivals or into contests, writingcontests where they start to let others know what they're doing and so that's helpful.
(10:04):
Cover Fly was an organization that did that a lot online, but I think they're going away.
Jaclyn (10:09):
yeah, that's what I've heard.
Leilani (10:10):
they'll probably be somewhat to fill that space.
But give yourself the opportunity and the courage to start getting your workout there in, whether it's at festivals that are taking, writing, uh, just the written word or some kind of, uh, training program, I would do that.
Secondly, don't be shy about maybe creating something of your own.
(10:32):
I was just in the, you know, writers always are learning, right?
So I was just in a seminar where they were talking about doing podcasts and I don'tknow if any of you are familiar with Issa Rae, and that's how she got started.
She's an actress that got started by doing a podcastand then she got, um, a series on HBO because of it.
Which name is escaping me right now?
(10:54):
But it, there are things that you can do to get noticed and, and the networks are looking atpodcasts and they're looking to see what's out there, you know, 'cause they wanna, it's like looking at books and trying to figure out what book you wanna make into a movie the networks are looking at, and studios are looking at what podcasts can be made into series or YouTube things.
(11:15):
YouTube is the most popular streamer out there andyou know, that's, most people are watching YouTube.
You could also do a little, um, sizzle on YouTube or,or start a conversation on YouTube for your writing.
And then the other thing is, I know that a lot of you don't live in Los Angeles.
The benefit of Los Angeles is that there's a lot of access out here.
(11:39):
There's always something going.
You can go to a seminar, some kind of networking event that is open for people to come to.
In your towns where you work, that could happen as well.
Um, you could hear something going on, whether it'sassociated with the university or in the community.
I would get out there and try to get relationships and tell people what you'redoing, because most of the time when people, from my experience, when they're looking for a writer, they don't know a lot of them, but they know who they know.
(12:10):
And so that's why networking comes into play.
Also, don't be shy when you write a script to start, uh, pursuing an agent or amanager, and that agent or a manager can be in Los Angeles, even if you are not.
I know a friend who in Oklahoma who just not only got into the WGA, but also gotan agent from Oklahoma, and he's not planning to move to Los Angeles anytime soon.
(12:36):
It helps to have some, some footprint in LA though, and he does now because he has an agent.
But you can easily write something that you love, that you believe in,and find an agent that's taking on new clients and they're out there.
You have to do some research.
And for me, when I worked on my television show, I knew the agents because they were.
(12:59):
Representing my writers that I was working with, and so I couldcherry pick and say I wanna eventually be with that person.
I would say if you're a young writer, you know, this is the advice I got and I think it still holds.
Going to a huge agency can be hard, CAA or something like that because you could get lost.
I think working with a boutique agency or a middleagency is a lot more beneficial to a young career.
(13:25):
It's nice to grow with your agent if you can.
You don't have to stay with them forever, but it's nice.
But there are ways.
Get your work out there, get it seen.
And the other thing, real quick, talk to your professors if you're in school.
I sat through a seminar where there was a panel of agents and they said, you knowwhat, we would listen to a professor if a professor said, this is a good person.
(13:49):
In terms of writing, I'm not saying that every professor is connected, buttalk to the people who are teaching you your craft and see how, what are their network benefits and if they believe in what you're doing, they will help.
Jaclyn (14:02):
Yeah, that's a lot of really great advice.
I feel like I should be taking notes right now.
I love this.
I kind of wanna back up, uh, again for a bit.
I wanna ask a, a few more questions about some of the differences.
So.
I know in the eighties and nineties, the big thing wasMulticam studio for, especially for family sitcoms.
And so that is something that I, I don't know if it's even done anymore.
(14:27):
Is that a thing anymore?
Leilani (14:29):
Actually it is back and you will see it on certain, uh, streamers.
Uh, Netflix will have, um, some multi cams and I believe Disney plus, but multi cams, they do exist.
And the fact that.
If you know how to do a Multicam, it kind of is a specialty becausethey kind of went away, you know, and now they're starting to come back.
(14:52):
So you have that specialty, you know, that craft, that you know how to do.
The difference between Multicam and the single camera show is basically what it says.
You know, you're gonna have three or more cameras shooting what's happening on,on set, as opposed to that one camera that you have to set and, and move, and.
And do all these things with, and usually the Multicam shows are done on a stage.
(15:15):
The other thing I would say in terms of the writing of a Multicam show, theformats are a lot different, but also the jokes are harder and faster.
In a multicam show, back in the day it was, you know,on a multi camp show, it was three jokes to a page.
It had to be fast and quick.
(15:36):
And if you watch Fresh Prince.
They fast and quick, those jokes came and so it's a skill and you canlearn it, definitely, you can learn it with your single cam shows.
They lend themselves more toward dramedies comedies that are a bit of drama in them.
I say all shows have drama in them, and I say all shows have comedy.
(15:57):
Even if you
Jaclyn (15:58):
Mm.
Leilani (15:58):
Procedural.
But that being said, you know, it's a different format.
You're working with more cameras, you're doing more likethings like cut twos and dissolves and things like that.
Three jokes to a page.
Some multi cams have openings and tags and things like that.
Around them, usually Multicam, like I said, happen indoors because you can't lug four cameras
Jaclyn (16:23):
Right.
Yeah.
Leilani (16:24):
but, you know, it's just an art of writing it a little differently, being creative.
Jaclyn (16:30):
are there any, let's say like benefits, whether it be from the writing or the producing side for one or the other?
Leilani (16:37):
I think, um, it could be a cost benefit a little bit for the studio itself.
You get paid the same for a multicam as a writer, as you do fora single cam show, but for, um, you know, a single cam show.
It depends on the, also the style of the show that you're writing.
The tone of it.
Is it gonna be something that, you know.
(16:58):
You need to have multiple sets and all of this, and you'redoing something where the characters are, out and about.
When I worked on my, uh, situation, comedies, it was usually a family show andit usually took place in the living room or the kitchen and if you're on a stage, you just move the cameras down the track to go from one staged set to the next.
(17:21):
And rarely, if ever did you see them outside.
If he did, you know, it took, it gave the show a different look if they were outside in a park.
So it's just, uh, depends on the money that the studio wants to spend.
And then as a writer, in your mind, as you're creating the show, what is it gonna look like?
I created a pilot called Cincinnati's Best, and it was about a guy that heowned a coffee cart in the park that would not look so good as a multi-cam
(17:52):
because you know, multi cams do look different when they go outside and do those kinds of things, so
Jaclyn (17:57):
You'd probably have to create an outdoor set inside.
Yeah.
And make it seem like you're outside.
But you're actually inside.
Yeah.
Leilani (18:05):
And that's what they did on friends.
Sometimes they were on the street.
Uh, where they shot friends was at Warner Brothers and at Warner Brothers.
There's a street called the New York Street, and they would sometimestake friends out, but sometimes they would do the sets on stage,
Jaclyn (18:19):
Mm-hmm.
Leilani (18:20):
that's huge.
Jaclyn (18:21):
So for people that are wanting to, you know, produce independently, do you have any advice for distribution or even pitching, like for how to get a show picked up, whether it be on streaming or something like that?
Leilani (18:37):
I think if you were gonna do something independently and you're saying, you know, I have this amazing idea and I'm going to write it and I wanna see it done, there's, uh, a cost to everything.
So you kind of have to figure out what the cost is gonna be, even financially for yourself.
If you have a, a group of folks that.
(18:57):
You consider your people and they're willing to help you.
That can help cut down some of the costs, and they have skills to help you with it, right?
So bring them along.
That's what a lot of people do, especially in the early days.
Eventually you wanna get to a point where everybody who's working on yourprojects is getting paid and they're happy and you're all growing together.
(19:19):
But in the beginning, you may need to call on some favors and there's no crime in that.
And that's done a lot.
And then.
If you create something, don't be shy about finding space for it on the internet.
Like I said, YouTube is one of the most watched streamers and you can actually putsomething up there that can catch fire, be seen, and maybe take you to the next level.
(19:45):
A friend of mine created something on YouTube and then went on to sell it to ABC.
Eventually, I.
Jaclyn (19:52):
Wow.
Leilani (19:53):
yeah.
You know, and she had to remake the pilot because of
it.
So you can tackle something like that.
It doesn't have to be, even if you do something on YouTube, you don'thave to go with the traditional 30 minutes or even hour or whatever.
You can produce something that you can handle E, even if it's somethingyou can handle financially, and then you can put it on YouTube.
(20:17):
Be consistent.
You know, if you, you think about people who have had huge careers and, and worked from nothing.
There's a show called, it's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Those guys created it themselves and then eventually sold it.
They didn't let it stop them.
Even Keenan Pill their show.
These are a bunch of guys that created a show with different sketches and different storylines.
(20:42):
They eventually sold.
I mean, people are doing it.
They're getting out and they're saying, you know, when you work infilm, you know it's, you always think, I'm gonna write my movie.
I'm gonna raise the money to make it.
I'm gonna make it.
And then you're still in a position of distribution, whatcha gonna do with it?
Same for television.
As TV writers, it's gotten a lot better for us becausethere's, like I said, there's more places to put your work.
(21:06):
You can be creative.
You can say, I'm gonna make this, I'm gonna shoot a couple of scenes.
I'm gonna throw this on YouTube.
And now you've kind of got a couple of shorts out.
It's, it's kind of in the vein of a short, in a sense, but it's your television.
And on YouTube you can have your own channel as well.
Um, it, it's gonna take work.
(21:28):
It's being creative.
It's, it is almost like self-publishing a book untilsomebody reads that book and says, this is amazing.
They wanna pick it up.
Jaclyn (21:38):
So how realistic is it if let's say a studio or you know, someone does want to pick it up, how realistic is it for the original writers to get hired on to continue writing for that project?
Leilani (21:49):
Well, as a writer, you always owned your ip, your intellectual property, and it is realistic that you can be hired by the studio to continue your work.
The only thing that you need to come to terms with is that you may not bethe show runner that first year or even the second year, maybe even the third year, but they can bring you on to a meaningful position on the show.
(22:17):
As a writer, as the creator, you would always be the creator, butthey would maybe pair you up with someone who has more experience.
In running the show, because remember, shows aremultimillion dollar properties, even doing it week to week.
So they're gonna wanna rest it in the hands of someone who really knows what they're doing.
(22:39):
You can learn what they learn, you know, because it'sa showrunner, you're gonna have to do everything.
You're gonna have to, you know, help with the crewing upof the show and getting the actors and all of those things.
But a network or a streamer would pair you with someone and someone would be over you.
It could still be your show, and you could still very much be a part of it.
(23:02):
But the reality is you may not be running it unless you, you'vehad that experience before or been close to that experience.
Jaclyn (23:10):
So for the person who wrote the pilot, are they considered the creator of the, the series?
Okay.
Leilani (23:17):
Yeah.
And it's interesting with writers, producers, you know,you have your directors, producers, and writers, right?
Those are the three.
Major pillars with writers.
It's hard not to have you around the, the Bible says in the beginningwas the word, and you know, the word is powerful on the page.
You know, uh, I'm not talking about Jesus, but I'm talking about the word on the page.
(23:40):
It's very powerful and it's hard to knock the writer out.
With producers, you sell something and the producer has to hope they stay on the project.
I hope
Jaclyn (23:50):
Uh,
Leilani (23:50):
on the project.
I hope the writer helps me stay on the project, even thoughthat guy, I hope the director helps me stay on the project.
The director is in a different space as well.
The director is a hired person.
Usually that comes on.
Uh, it starts with the writer and the writer gets itgoing, creates the idea and the world and all of that.
(24:13):
It's hard to separate them.
You can't, you are the creation you make the other two,they can find their place, but sometimes they don't stay with.
Jaclyn (24:23):
Right.
That's really interesting and good to know.
It's very different talking about episodic features, is where I've spent most of my experience.
And while I have written on some episodic stuff, it was all like, very much the, the startup.
But as the, the projects that I have been working onare getting produced, I'm excited to see where they go.
(24:44):
And so I, you know, I'm taking my own notes here on, on this.
Whole distribution avenue and definitely gonna share that with the producers I'm working with.
This is all very, very good information.
I'm sure our listeners are enjoying it as well.
Leilani, I wanna thank you so much for coming on ourpodcast and sharing your life, your heart, your insights.
Um, I really hope that we get to talk with you again some timeand maybe even have you teach a workshop at FAFF Association.
Leilani (25:11):
I would love that.
I would, and yeah, like I said, it began with somebody sharingsomething with me, and I love sharing what I do with others too.
Jaclyn (25:20):
Wonderful.
All right.
Thank you so much.
God bless.
Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
My name is Jaclyn and I'm excited to be speaking with Leilani Downer today.
This is the second part of our interview, so if you go listen to the previousepisode, you'll get to hear her backstory, how she got into film and television, and.
Her journey was very unique and interesting, and so Iencourage you to go listen to that if you haven't already.
(00:22):
So today I want to get into some of the actual strategiesand writing techniques and how do you write episodic?
how do you write for television?
And so if you could kind of maybe help me out withunderstanding maybe the evolution of where things have gone.
'cause I know that things in the eighties and nineties were done differently than they are today.
(00:45):
Can you help me understand some of the differences?
Leilani (00:47):
Sure.
Um, hi, Jaclyn.
It's nice to be back.
So, yes, it's a different world
in a sense.
In the eighties and nineties, television wasn't as.
Huge as it is now.
you know, they're saying that we're in a golden period of television.
There's so much out there, there's so many avenues of seeing things.
(01:07):
You've got the streamers and you've got networks, and you've got cable and all of the things.
There's just too much stuff.
But back in the day when I started, there were only three networks.
Eventually actually really there became five.
There was the Warner Brothers wb and there was the cw andum, then there were the traditional A-B-C-N-B-C-C-B-S.
(01:31):
And, you know, for, for writers, the struggle was trying to get into one of those networksbecause if you miss those, the chance of you getting a job or getting, um, staffed.
Would have to wait till the next staffing season.
And there are staffing seasons in the business.
Usually, um, in the spring, they start staffing for shows that start being viewed in September.
(01:55):
Now that's the old model because nowadays staffingis, even though that's traditionally staffing season.
Staffing happens all the time because you're not dealing with September premiers.
I don't know if you remember back in the day, Jaclyn, when theyused to say, oh, these shows are coming, and it was a big tradition.
It was a guide would have full spreads and all the shows and things like that.
(02:19):
So that was back in the day.
Today it's a lot different.
There's so much opportunity out there for writers and for writers to create,uh, space for themselves in the entertainment industry and working with shows.
It's good to know what broadcast, uh, or traditionalnetwork show might look like as opposed to a streaming show.
(02:40):
Um, streamers kinda lend themselves a little bit toward the skills you have for beinga feature writer In writing those scripts, you're not writing toward commercials.
There's no commercial breaks and page counts.
Pretty much stay the same for half hour to 60 minute shows, or half hour to full hour shows.
(03:00):
Page counts change all the time.
I don't know if you've ever watched a Netflix show and some of theminutes are, one show can be 32 minutes, another one can be 45.
Jaclyn (03:10):
Yeah.
Leilani (03:11):
They have the ability to do that.
But in, uh, network television, we were a little bit more, uh, stuck with the minuteswe could work with and make sure that we had the act breaks at the right places so that the commercials could run and theme songs were big for shows back then.
One thing I do wanna point out, since you know thisis a lot of us here, um, our faith, and, and know God.
(03:35):
Back in the day, it was such a comfortable place to be in television becauseeveryone was mindful of how things were being presented over the air, and there was, uh, every studio had something called standards and practices.
They would read the scripts and they would make surethat they were wholesome as much as they could.
(03:56):
So you didn't hear a lot of cursing.
There wasn't a lot of innuendo that were out there.
It was very, very rare and very shocking when it happened.
I. And when Fox Television came along, that was another network that came on Horizon.
They started doing more and more things that were a littleon the edge, and we would hear rumors about it on our shows.
(04:20):
Like, you know, they let them say this over at Fox, you know, that kind of a thing.
So as a Christian going into television in the nineties, it was a comfortable space.
I teach at Asbury University.
And I teach my students how to write half hour situation comedies, and I do itfrom a perspective of spec scripts, and we talked about that last time was on air.
(04:45):
The difference between a spec and a pilot, a spec is you'rejust mimicking what's out there, finding a show you love.
I always say find the show you love because you can write that.
And as opposed to a pilot where you create everything yourself.
So when my students are looking for spec scripts, they have a hardtime because they come back to me, they say, there's so much cursing.
(05:07):
They're using the F word, they're doing this, they're doing that.
And we have to figure out, okay, how can you approach thisand yet show people you know how to write for that show?
And there's one, you know, I won't say what the show is, but there wasone particular show where the characters used F words all the time.
And I told my student that I was teaching, I said, think about the character.
(05:32):
Is that a character trait?
That that character has, do they curse all the time like that, ordo you think that that's something that the writer decided to do?
Just to kind of pump it up?
If it's the writer, which it was, you know, 'cause ifyou looked at the show, it wasn't a character trait.
I said, as a writer yourself, think creatively how you can express that person'sanger or that person's shock without going to the same word over and over again.
(06:05):
And I said, you know, things like when using the word dude, come on dude.
You
know
Jaclyn (06:11):
Like no matter what the word is, you need to come up with variety.
Leilani (06:15):
Variety.
Yes.
Use your words.
So that's the difference a lot from when, when I started and then justbeing creative and showing people, yes, I can write, I am a strong writer.
I'm not gonna just, you know, gotta be servicey.
I'm gonna write characters, uh, real feelings andsay things that we would recognize in the real world.
(06:35):
But I can do it in a, a more creative way, um, to get around the things that I wanna write for.
Jaclyn (06:41):
and I know I've seen that too, where I've been watching a show and all of a sudden like this character that had never used foul language in previous episodes in this episode, it's like five times.
I'm like, what is this?
And I, so I know as a writer I'm like, well, I guessthat's the writer's way of writing this character, but.
(07:02):
That's not the character itself.
And then for episodes after that it, it's gone back to the original.
And so, yeah, like you can tell every now and then there's a writer on a projectthat they use, language that the writer is familiar with rather than the characters,
Leilani (07:20):
Exactly.
Jaclyn (07:21):
this character in the other episodes does not have that vocabulary.
Leilani (07:25):
Right.
And if you are specking something, maybe you can get a little creative and,and do a storyline where the character says, I'm not gonna use foul language.
You know, I mean, you know, the storyline is part of that, and that's his struggle.
it could be a, a b story.
You know, the difference between an A story is what carries the entire episode.
And then you allow for your supporting cast or the cast to which the episode is not about.
(07:50):
To be involved in a B story and you could do somethingof that nature to kind of get around that whole thing.
But it's just being creative and figuring
Jaclyn (07:58):
It's like, it's the catch, not the goal.
So yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Okay, so one of the pieces of advice I guess, for writers wanting to get into writing episodic isto write an episode, like a spec script for something that's already written or to write the pilot.
(08:18):
And then is there anything else that would be a benefit for.
Writers, if they're wanting to, let's say if they're wanting to gethired as a writer, or even if they're wanting to produce their own, what?
What are some pieces of advice that you would give?
Leilani (08:34):
Well, I do believe that there's a lot more opportunity for writers out there and ways of doing things if you're interested in producing something of your own.
First of all, if you are interested in episodic television, whetherit's streaming or I. Traditional television, please be a student of it.
Uh, watch it Uh, some people, they want to be doing this, but they don't know what's out there.
(09:00):
Be aware of what's out there and what's kind of popular and where the trends are going.
You know?
'cause there's definite trends in television.
And when a show is very hot, people kind of wanna like go there.
And that's not to say that you have to totally, you know, take somethingfrom somebody else, but you do your version of it If you're writing a pilot, and pilots are a little harder to write because as I said a little earlier, you're creating characters that live in a world that's never been seen before.
(09:30):
So anyway, I, I would say watch, um, episodes.
I would say also read scripts.
There are several online sites where you can get scripts for free, and I would go there and downloadsome scripts and start reading them as to getting your work seen and heard and all of that.
There's a couple things you can do.
I'm not, uh, shy about writers kind of entering into festivals or into contests, writingcontests where they start to let others know what they're doing and so that's helpful.
(10:04):
Cover Fly was an organization that did that a lot online, but I think they're going away.
Jaclyn (10:09):
yeah, that's what I've heard.
Leilani (10:10):
they'll probably be somewhat to fill that space.
But give yourself the opportunity and the courage to start getting your workout there in, whether it's at festivals that are taking, writing, uh, just the written word or some kind of, uh, training program, I would do that.
Secondly, don't be shy about maybe creating something of your own.
(10:32):
I was just in the, you know, writers always are learning, right?
So I was just in a seminar where they were talking about doing podcasts and I don'tknow if any of you are familiar with Issa Rae, and that's how she got started.
She's an actress that got started by doing a podcastand then she got, um, a series on HBO because of it.
Which name is escaping me right now?
(10:54):
But it, there are things that you can do to get noticed and, and the networks are looking atpodcasts and they're looking to see what's out there, you know, 'cause they wanna, it's like looking at books and trying to figure out what book you wanna make into a movie the networks are looking at, and studios are looking at what podcasts can be made into series or YouTube things.
(11:15):
YouTube is the most popular streamer out there andyou know, that's, most people are watching YouTube.
You could also do a little, um, sizzle on YouTube or,or start a conversation on YouTube for your writing.
And then the other thing is, I know that a lot of you don't live in Los Angeles.
The benefit of Los Angeles is that there's a lot of access out here.
(11:39):
There's always something going.
You can go to a seminar, some kind of networking event that is open for people to come to.
In your towns where you work, that could happen as well.
Um, you could hear something going on, whether it'sassociated with the university or in the community.
I would get out there and try to get relationships and tell people what you'redoing, because most of the time when people, from my experience, when they're looking for a writer, they don't know a lot of them, but they know who they know.
(12:10):
And so that's why networking comes into play.
Also, don't be shy when you write a script to start, uh, pursuing an agent or amanager, and that agent or a manager can be in Los Angeles, even if you are not.
I know a friend who in Oklahoma who just not only got into the WGA, but also gotan agent from Oklahoma, and he's not planning to move to Los Angeles anytime soon.
(12:36):
It helps to have some, some footprint in LA though, and he does now because he has an agent.
But you can easily write something that you love, that you believe in,and find an agent that's taking on new clients and they're out there.
You have to do some research.
And for me, when I worked on my television show, I knew the agents because they were.
(12:59):
Representing my writers that I was working with, and so I couldcherry pick and say I wanna eventually be with that person.
I would say if you're a young writer, you know, this is the advice I got and I think it still holds.
Going to a huge agency can be hard, CAA or something like that because you could get lost.
I think working with a boutique agency or a middleagency is a lot more beneficial to a young career.
(13:25):
It's nice to grow with your agent if you can.
You don't have to stay with them forever, but it's nice.
But there are ways.
Get your work out there, get it seen.
And the other thing, real quick, talk to your professors if you're in school.
I sat through a seminar where there was a panel of agents and they said, you knowwhat, we would listen to a professor if a professor said, this is a good person.
(13:49):
In terms of writing, I'm not saying that every professor is connected, buttalk to the people who are teaching you your craft and see how, what are their network benefits and if they believe in what you're doing, they will help.
Jaclyn (14:02):
Yeah, that's a lot of really great advice.
I feel like I should be taking notes right now.
I love this.
I kind of wanna back up, uh, again for a bit.
I wanna ask a, a few more questions about some of the differences.
So.
I know in the eighties and nineties, the big thing wasMulticam studio for, especially for family sitcoms.
And so that is something that I, I don't know if it's even done anymore.
(14:27):
Is that a thing anymore?
Leilani (14:29):
Actually it is back and you will see it on certain, uh, streamers.
Uh, Netflix will have, um, some multi cams and I believe Disney plus, but multi cams, they do exist.
And the fact that.
If you know how to do a Multicam, it kind of is a specialty becausethey kind of went away, you know, and now they're starting to come back.
(14:52):
So you have that specialty, you know, that craft, that you know how to do.
The difference between Multicam and the single camera show is basically what it says.
You know, you're gonna have three or more cameras shooting what's happening on,on set, as opposed to that one camera that you have to set and, and move, and.
And do all these things with, and usually the Multicam shows are done on a stage.
(15:15):
The other thing I would say in terms of the writing of a Multicam show, theformats are a lot different, but also the jokes are harder and faster.
In a multicam show, back in the day it was, you know,on a multi camp show, it was three jokes to a page.
It had to be fast and quick.
(15:36):
And if you watch Fresh Prince.
They fast and quick, those jokes came and so it's a skill and you canlearn it, definitely, you can learn it with your single cam shows.
They lend themselves more toward dramedies comedies that are a bit of drama in them.
I say all shows have drama in them, and I say all shows have comedy.
(15:57):
Even if you
Jaclyn (15:58):
Mm.
Leilani (15:58):
Procedural.
But that being said, you know, it's a different format.
You're working with more cameras, you're doing more likethings like cut twos and dissolves and things like that.
Three jokes to a page.
Some multi cams have openings and tags and things like that.
Around them, usually Multicam, like I said, happen indoors because you can't lug four cameras
Jaclyn (16:23):
Right.
Yeah.
Leilani (16:24):
but, you know, it's just an art of writing it a little differently, being creative.
Jaclyn (16:30):
are there any, let's say like benefits, whether it be from the writing or the producing side for one or the other?
Leilani (16:37):
I think, um, it could be a cost benefit a little bit for the studio itself.
You get paid the same for a multicam as a writer, as you do fora single cam show, but for, um, you know, a single cam show.
It depends on the, also the style of the show that you're writing.
The tone of it.
Is it gonna be something that, you know.
(16:58):
You need to have multiple sets and all of this, and you'redoing something where the characters are, out and about.
When I worked on my, uh, situation, comedies, it was usually a family show andit usually took place in the living room or the kitchen and if you're on a stage, you just move the cameras down the track to go from one staged set to the next.
(17:21):
And rarely, if ever did you see them outside.
If he did, you know, it took, it gave the show a different look if they were outside in a park.
So it's just, uh, depends on the money that the studio wants to spend.
And then as a writer, in your mind, as you're creating the show, what is it gonna look like?
I created a pilot called Cincinnati's Best, and it was about a guy that heowned a coffee cart in the park that would not look so good as a multi-cam
(17:52):
because you know, multi cams do look different when they go outside and do those kinds of things, so
Jaclyn (17:57):
You'd probably have to create an outdoor set inside.
Yeah.
And make it seem like you're outside.
But you're actually inside.
Yeah.
Leilani (18:05):
And that's what they did on friends.
Sometimes they were on the street.
Uh, where they shot friends was at Warner Brothers and at Warner Brothers.
There's a street called the New York Street, and they would sometimestake friends out, but sometimes they would do the sets on stage,
Jaclyn (18:19):
Mm-hmm.
Leilani (18:20):
that's huge.
Jaclyn (18:21):
So for people that are wanting to, you know, produce independently, do you have any advice for distribution or even pitching, like for how to get a show picked up, whether it be on streaming or something like that?
Leilani (18:37):
I think if you were gonna do something independently and you're saying, you know, I have this amazing idea and I'm going to write it and I wanna see it done, there's, uh, a cost to everything.
So you kind of have to figure out what the cost is gonna be, even financially for yourself.
If you have a, a group of folks that.
(18:57):
You consider your people and they're willing to help you.
That can help cut down some of the costs, and they have skills to help you with it, right?
So bring them along.
That's what a lot of people do, especially in the early days.
Eventually you wanna get to a point where everybody who's working on yourprojects is getting paid and they're happy and you're all growing together.
(19:19):
But in the beginning, you may need to call on some favors and there's no crime in that.
And that's done a lot.
And then.
If you create something, don't be shy about finding space for it on the internet.
Like I said, YouTube is one of the most watched streamers and you can actually putsomething up there that can catch fire, be seen, and maybe take you to the next level.
(19:45):
A friend of mine created something on YouTube and then went on to sell it to ABC.
Eventually, I.
Jaclyn (19:52):
Wow.
Leilani (19:53):
yeah.
You know, and she had to remake the pilot because of
it.
So you can tackle something like that.
It doesn't have to be, even if you do something on YouTube, you don'thave to go with the traditional 30 minutes or even hour or whatever.
You can produce something that you can handle E, even if it's somethingyou can handle financially, and then you can put it on YouTube.
(20:17):
Be consistent.
You know, if you, you think about people who have had huge careers and, and worked from nothing.
There's a show called, it's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Those guys created it themselves and then eventually sold it.
They didn't let it stop them.
Even Keenan Pill their show.
These are a bunch of guys that created a show with different sketches and different storylines.
(20:42):
They eventually sold.
I mean, people are doing it.
They're getting out and they're saying, you know, when you work infilm, you know it's, you always think, I'm gonna write my movie.
I'm gonna raise the money to make it.
I'm gonna make it.
And then you're still in a position of distribution, whatcha gonna do with it?
Same for television.
As TV writers, it's gotten a lot better for us becausethere's, like I said, there's more places to put your work.
(21:06):
You can be creative.
You can say, I'm gonna make this, I'm gonna shoot a couple of scenes.
I'm gonna throw this on YouTube.
And now you've kind of got a couple of shorts out.
It's, it's kind of in the vein of a short, in a sense, but it's your television.
And on YouTube you can have your own channel as well.
Um, it, it's gonna take work.
(21:28):
It's being creative.
It's, it is almost like self-publishing a book untilsomebody reads that book and says, this is amazing.
They wanna pick it up.
Jaclyn (21:38):
So how realistic is it if let's say a studio or you know, someone does want to pick it up, how realistic is it for the original writers to get hired on to continue writing for that project?
Leilani (21:49):
Well, as a writer, you always owned your ip, your intellectual property, and it is realistic that you can be hired by the studio to continue your work.
The only thing that you need to come to terms with is that you may not bethe show runner that first year or even the second year, maybe even the third year, but they can bring you on to a meaningful position on the show.
(22:17):
As a writer, as the creator, you would always be the creator, butthey would maybe pair you up with someone who has more experience.
In running the show, because remember, shows aremultimillion dollar properties, even doing it week to week.
So they're gonna wanna rest it in the hands of someone who really knows what they're doing.
(22:39):
You can learn what they learn, you know, because it'sa showrunner, you're gonna have to do everything.
You're gonna have to, you know, help with the crewing upof the show and getting the actors and all of those things.
But a network or a streamer would pair you with someone and someone would be over you.
It could still be your show, and you could still very much be a part of it.
(23:02):
But the reality is you may not be running it unless you, you'vehad that experience before or been close to that experience.
Jaclyn (23:10):
So for the person who wrote the pilot, are they considered the creator of the, the series?
Okay.
Leilani (23:17):
Yeah.
And it's interesting with writers, producers, you know,you have your directors, producers, and writers, right?
Those are the three.
Major pillars with writers.
It's hard not to have you around the, the Bible says in the beginningwas the word, and you know, the word is powerful on the page.
You know, uh, I'm not talking about Jesus, but I'm talking about the word on the page.
(23:40):
It's very powerful and it's hard to knock the writer out.
With producers, you sell something and the producer has to hope they stay on the project.
I hope
Jaclyn (23:50):
Uh,
Leilani (23:50):
on the project.
I hope the writer helps me stay on the project, even thoughthat guy, I hope the director helps me stay on the project.
The director is in a different space as well.
The director is a hired person.
Usually that comes on.
Uh, it starts with the writer and the writer gets itgoing, creates the idea and the world and all of that.
(24:13):
It's hard to separate them.
You can't, you are the creation you make the other two,they can find their place, but sometimes they don't stay with.
Jaclyn (24:23):
Right.
That's really interesting and good to know.
It's very different talking about episodic features, is where I've spent most of my experience.
And while I have written on some episodic stuff, it was all like, very much the, the startup.
But as the, the projects that I have been working onare getting produced, I'm excited to see where they go.
(24:44):
And so I, you know, I'm taking my own notes here on, on this.
Whole distribution avenue and definitely gonna share that with the producers I'm working with.
This is all very, very good information.
I'm sure our listeners are enjoying it as well.
Leilani, I wanna thank you so much for coming on ourpodcast and sharing your life, your heart, your insights.
Um, I really hope that we get to talk with you again some timeand maybe even have you teach a workshop at FAFF Association.
Leilani (25:11):
I would love that.
I would, and yeah, like I said, it began with somebody sharingsomething with me, and I love sharing what I do with others too.
Jaclyn (25:20):
Wonderful.
All right.
Thank you so much.
God bless.
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