September 10, 2025 • 49 mins
In this faith-filled episode of Faith Fueled Woman, I sit down with spiritual director Robin Kencel to explore how we can experience God more intimately and live with greater joy—right in the middle of our everyday lives. Robin shares how spiritual direction and intentional faith practices like the examen and lectio divina can help us recognize God’s presence, especially during life transitions or seasons of spiritual dryness.
We talk about how God uses simple moments to speak to us, and how embracing our gifts, passions, and purpose can lead us to deeper faith and more joy. Whether you're feeling disconnected or just want to go deeper in your spiritual walk, this conversation offers wisdom, encouragement, and practical tools to help you reconnect with God and rediscover joy.
✅ Key Takeaways:
- You don’t have to wait for a big moment—God often speaks in the quiet, everyday spaces of life.
- Spiritual direction can help you hear God more clearly and navigate life transitions with clarity and peace.
- Joy is not something we chase—it’s something we cultivate when we are rooted in God’s presence.
- Practices like lectio divina and the daily examen can help you reflect, reconnect, and grow spiritually.
- Embracing your gifts and interests isn’t selfish—it’s how God wired you to live out your calling with impact.
Connect with Robin at in-sacred-space.com or reach her directly at rkencel@icloud.com
Download My Free Joyful Living Devotional: https://kristinfitch.com/devotional
Ready to take your first step towards a more joyful, faith-filled life? Download our Reignite Your Passion Workbook and start living with purpose today!
What to feel more energized in midlife? Grab my 5 Day Energy Reset Jump Start Guide here.
Ready to work with Kristin to make a shift in your life? Click here to get started.
Christian spiritual practices, deepening your faith, spiritual direction for women, Christian women podcast, joy in everyday life, hearing God’s voice, faith during life transitions, growing spiritually, biblical mindfulness, Ignatian spirituality, purpose and calling, Christian women in midlife, Christian mentoring, spiritual renewal, practical ways to connect with God
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi.
Today in the podcast we aregoing to talk about how can we experience
God in a deeper way in our lives.
I have a guest interview todayto share with you with a spiritual
director who's going to sharewith us simple ways that we can do
just this.
We're also going to talk abouthow can we see God move in our lives
more and how can we see moreof the joy that's all around us from
(00:20):
the joy that God is bringinginto the world and into our lives?
It's a great episode.
I think it's going to fill youup and I can't wait to share it.
Hey friend, are you cravingdeeper faith, renewed purpose and
more joy in your everyday life?
Welcome to Faith Healed Womanpodcast that helps Christian women
grow spiritually pursue God'scalling and embrace the abundant
life he has for you?
(00:41):
I'm Kristen, an encourager,mentor, entrepreneur, wife and mom,
here to uplift, equip andinspire you with faith filled conversations
and biblical wisdom.
Subscribe now so you nevermiss an episode and join our faith
fueled community for more encouragement.
Hi.
Today on the podcast I wouldlike to welcome our guest, Robin
Kensell.
She's, she is a spiritualdirector and she works with groups
(01:03):
and individuals in herspiritual ministry in Sacred Space.
She's also crowned MissConnecticut Senior America 2025.
And she's a founding realestate broker in Greenwich, Connecticut
for Compass.
She's also one of the top oneand a half percent agents in the
US and she's a six time pro amBallroom Dance champion.
So I'm excited to have thisconversation with Robin today because
(01:25):
we're going to step intofaith, what spiritual direction can
do for us.
We're going to talk about howcan we deepen our faith and we're
going to talk about how do wetap into more joy and just deepen
our life in meaningful andrich ways.
So I'm so excited for this conversation.
Robin, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
And I'm so excited to be here.
(01:46):
Thanks.
So could you just start offwith telling us maybe a little bit
about what life looks like andwhat you're up to now?
Yes.
So, you know, it's interesting.
I'm 67 years old.
I'll put that right out there.
And this is sort of a chapter change.
I've been going through achapter change.
Life is making some shifts appropriately.
(02:06):
So I'm continuing my spiritualdirection practice, which I just
started four years, four and ahalf years ago.
So expanding that anddeepening into that.
But I've also got some newThings going on.
You mentioned I was crownedMiss Senior America, which is on
the Miss America plusplatform, but it's women for over
(02:26):
60 and I'll be representingConnecticut in October.
I was supposed to go lastyear, but I broke my foot three weeks
before the pageant in theNational Dance Championships.
So it's been a season, anentire year of honestly, Kristen,
injuries.
I had to rehab a broken footand then I went into a bruised toe
(02:48):
and then I had sciatica.
So life has been a little different.
I've had to explore who am Iwithout the dancing for bits of time.
And I've had some fundiscoveries like improv.
I wanted to try acting and Ifound a specializes in improv and
it's opened up an entire newworld to me.
That's amazing.
(03:08):
I love it.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's so great.
And you're right, all of usare going to have so many seasons
right through our lives,whatever age we are.
And it really is a continuous reinvention.
But we're also going to haveseasons of waiting, of preparation,
seasons of new growth, seasonsthat sometimes growth doesn't seem
like it's happening, but it is.
(03:29):
It's just slow.
And, you know, I love thatduring those seasons where you had
to pause or slow down, youfound other things that just lit
you up that excited you andlet you kind of stretch yourself
in new ways.
So I think that's beautiful.
And I love that, you know, I'm.
Going to be honest, last yearI also ended up being number one
(03:51):
in my age category and stylefor Doll ballroom.
And that meant I spent a lotof time in dance.
And during the year, I didkind of turn to the Lord and say,
am I spending too much time?
Is this one of thosedisordered attachments?
That's a language we would usein St. Ignatius's language.
And I'm trained as an Ignatiantradition spiritual director.
(04:16):
And there was that littlenagging voice in the back of my head
that you are spending a lot oftime in dance.
And I did, you know, say, God,if this isn't a good thing, just
sort of let me know.
So he was rather dramatic inbreaking my.
In having my foot broken, butit was good because it also made
me slow down.
(04:36):
So not only did I say, what doI want to do with this time that
I haven't done, but it alsogot me back to my spiritual practices,
which, you know how that goes.
Sometimes you've got goodspiritual practices in place, and
then little by little, thetime gets slighter.
You know, I'm a daily mass goer.
That's one of my practices.
(04:57):
And you skip a day here orthere and before you know it, it's
sort of like that sailboatthat's gone off chart by a degree
here and there, and then allof a sudden you're in a brand new
direction that you reallydidn't want to be in.
Right, Absolutely.
I think I did a short episodeabout that, about how pilots.
Right.
If they're even off course, Ithink it's by one degree.
(05:18):
But over several hours they'revery off course.
Right.
And so it's to your point is,I think most people, you know, especially,
you know, whether Christianout, but Christians, obviously, we're
talking about, we've all gonethrough times where our faith journey
ebbs and flows a little bit.
Right.
And like you said, though, ifwe're not careful, it can really,
(05:39):
you can realize look back andsay, you know, in the last month,
have I been putting God first?
Right.
Have I been putting the thingsthat I do in my faith before other
things, you know, or at leastkeeping them as a priority.
So I think you're so rightabout that.
And it is important toregularly reflect on that and to
revisit our patterns, I think,especially with our faith.
(06:01):
Yeah.
And I guess I want to add onto that that, you know, in this slight
getting off course and thenbeing forced to have some quiet time,
that white space and that evenphysical slowing down and having
the time to get back into thepractices and just, you know, and
just breathe and simmer in theLord was really important.
(06:23):
And I don't know, honestly, ifI had would have done that had I
not had the broken foot.
Yeah.
I mean, there's so manyexamples, people you'll talk to,
stories like that wheresomeone had a job change or lost
their job or had an injury.
Two summers ago, I had a head injury.
I fell off of a golf cart.
(06:45):
I mean, that was okay, but Idid have a, like a scalp hematoma
and I did fracture my skull.
But I mean, I didn't have tohave surgery or anything.
But I had some really weirdsymptoms that happened a week later.
Like my hearing went crazy inmy ear.
I couldn't smell.
Like it was just all thesestrange things.
But my point is, is I had tokind of slow it down that summer.
(07:05):
Right.
I had to say no to some stuff.
It wasn't like I had any crazymajor like, you know, where I was,
couldn't get out of bed or anything.
But I still knew that to Letmy body heal.
I still did stuff, but I hadto slow down, right?
I had to be in a season ofpause and.
But it was the same thing.
Like I didn't want that to happen.
You know, no one wants aninjury, right?
(07:27):
But it was also a big time forme of reflection.
You know, it was a time for meto grow, like you said in my faith.
Because one of the things Iknew is some people don't make it
when they fall and hit theirhead when a golf cart's moving, right?
And I did.
I still have purpose andreason to be here.
And I didn't take that for granted.
And so I, I think you're right.
Sometimes we don't want to pause.
(07:49):
We don't want to be in aseason of waiting.
But usually there's so muchfor us to do in that season and a
lot of times it is for us to,to go to God.
It's a time for us that he'spreparing us for something else and
maybe even something, evenwhen it doesn't seem like it and
it seems like maybe adisappointment sometimes.
And you know, I want to addsomething else there.
(08:10):
The other thing I learned isthat in the slowing down I actually
had more time to be morepresent to people.
Not like the things that areon my calendar, but you know, you're
out in the world and someoneis crossing the street and you have
that extra moment because youhaven't jam packed your schedule
to offer a hand.
And it sounds like such alittle thing, but I started making
(08:32):
it a game that, where I wouldlike stick $5 in my pocket because
I was living in New York atthe time.
And to say, okay, who can Itouch that I wouldn't have touched.
And honestly I don't know if Iwould have done that had I just kept
going at my rather fast jampacked pace.
Yeah, I agree with you.
(08:53):
It's funny.
I just recorded a mini soloepisode this morning somewhat about
that.
I was reading one of thedevotionals this morning by Bob Goff
and it was talking about kindof being present but, but the point
was, is like how often are westanding in a line scrolling on our
phones, ignoring the peoplearound us?
And I know that's he's alsotalking about deepening relationships,
(09:14):
which I'm sure we'll get intothat later.
But you know, I gave theexample that I've learned.
One I used to like, oh, I'm ina long line, it's not moving.
There's an issue.
I'm going to move lines.
But Every single time I didthat, my line would take longer somehow,
right?
So I've learned that is a timefor me to be patient and just wait.
It's a time where someone willstrike up a conversation with me,
(09:35):
right?
Because we're sort of sittingthere like, oh, you know, waiting.
But even the other day at thegrocery, it was pouring rain.
I mean, it was like a dilute,a deluge.
And I didn't bring an umbrellabecause it wasn't raining when I
went in.
And so when I went out, Ilooked at Radar, and it was.
It was not going to slow downanytime soon.
So I waited out under theawning for a few minutes.
(09:57):
So I'm just gonna have to gofor it.
But, I mean, I had a lot ofgroceries, so it was going to take
me a couple minutes to unload.
And there was a couple otherpeople waiting as I was.
But a couple of them were, youknow, older than me, women, and they
were just kind of standingthere waiting.
And.
But I saw Radar wasn't gonna.
Like I said, it wasn't gonnalet up.
So when I got to my car, youknow, I just had that little voice
that said, go back.
You know?
So I grabbed my two umbrellas,and I said to both the women, like,
(10:20):
here, I can give you one of myumbrellas and walk you to your car.
And they both kind of lookedat me, were sizing me up, like, should
I trust this person?
And anyway, so the one woman'slike, oh, okay, you know, she'll
let me go with her.
So I did, and I took her, andshe's like, yeah, I saw you coming
back, and I was kind ofwondering what, you know, what you
were doing.
Then I went back, and I askedthe other woman, you know, I can
(10:41):
help you, or you can use the umbrella.
And she's like, no, no.
So twice she told me, no, no,she'd wait.
And I said, okay, okay, youknow, so she stayed.
But my point is, if I wasalways hurrying, then I'd miss those
moments where I could just dosomething little to remind someone
that I see them, that theymatter, that, you know, that we're
going to take time out of our schedule.
(11:01):
I was already dripping wet.
What was a couple more minutesof getting wetter?
But it's exactly what yousaid, which is too many of us.
And that's why I shared this morning.
Are so stuck and caught up inthe next place we have to be and
get our to do list done, thatwe're not always present with the
people around us, whether it'sat the store or in our communities
or sometimes even in our homehomes or our close friends.
(11:23):
So, yeah, I love shared that.
I love.
I love your umbrella story.
And, you know, I say somethingnow when I'm in, like, the long grocery
line or if something doesn'twork out the way I planned, because
the only thing we can reallycontrol is our responses.
We can't control the situation.
That's right.
So much.
And I.
And now I. I find myselfsaying, okay, God, that's not going
(11:45):
to happen, or, okay, God, I'mstuck here.
What do you have planned for me?
And it's so funny how when youchange your mindset and you change
your attitude towards what'shappening, the whole thing can look
completely different.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, years ago, I sort ofcame to this conclusion for myself
that it's never in the.
(12:06):
How do I say this?
Of course our work matters.
Showing up at work, you know,doing all the things, whether we're
doing something that has to do with.
It's very obvious, right?
Like talking about faith on a podcast.
But also just any work we do, right.
We can show up and we can bea, you know, a person of faith and
all that.
But what I learned long ago isit has so much more to do with people,
and it's in the moments.
(12:27):
Like my dad, he did pass inFebruary, but he had Parkinson's,
so, you know, it got worse and worse.
But the point is, is the daysthat I would go over there, and luckily
he lived near us, so most ofmy siblings and I were nearby.
And as he was getting, youknow, worse, we were over there more
helping my stepmom.
But the point was, is I knewthat it's things like that, taking
(12:48):
time out of a schedule that Icould have said, oh, I could just
keep doing work.
That was more important to me,invest in people, invest in the relationships
than anything else I probablydid that day.
Right.
It wasn't important, but.
But I've learned that it'sabout people and me investing in
people.
It's so funny that you bringthis up.
(13:08):
I had dinner last night withmy dear friend who's also my spiritual
director.
He's a priest.
And he unexpectedly was intown because he's moved and I don't
get to see him often.
And we were talking aboutrelationships, and, you know, that's
what life is all about.
God wants a relationship with us.
He put more than one personhere so we could be in relationship
(13:31):
with each other to glorify his relationship.
I mean, to me, there's nothingmore important in life than relationships.
So when we're making differentchoices that are shortchanging our
opportunity as you didn't doin the, in the grocery line and with
the umbrellas, you know, we'renot really taking advantage of.
(13:53):
Of what he wants most for us.
Yeah.
And like I said, I've had somany things that keep hitting that
home for me.
So I have three sons.
They're.
They're all now 18 and over,so 18 to 23, and they're still all
at home.
You know, two are in collegeand then one is finished his degree
for now.
And he's.
(14:13):
He's working, but he's, like,looking for that career job.
So he's at that phase.
But he, my oldest, had comehome from college a year and a half
in with depression and things.
And so I remember, I think Idid a podcast episode and I think
I wrote about it.
But, you know, I said, I thinkthe most important thing I did today
was make peanut butter toast.
Yeah.
In other words, it's thelittle things we do for people.
(14:35):
And in that case, my son, hedidn't want to talk a lot about it.
I mean, at the beginning he did.
What he needed to know is thathe was cared for and it didn't matter
what was going on.
Like, I was there in the waythat he needed, which was that that's
what he wanted.
Yeah.
You showed up, and you showedup in a certain way.
I love this story so muchbecause you are talking about it's
(14:57):
not the size of the thing.
Mother Teresa's quote, youknow, which talks about, we all can't
do great things, but we can dosmall things with great love.
Like, to me, the end of story.
Like, we could just shut itall down now.
And that's what the peanutbutter chips are.
Yes, that's exactly.
Small thing, great love.
And we don't even know theamount of impact that has made on
(15:19):
your son that day at thatmoment when he needed it.
That's right.
Absolutely.
Oh, I love it.
Okay, so what I would love totalk about is you.
We're going to get into kindof you being a spiritual director
and what that looks like andlike, how can we tap into more of
that, you know, or understand that?
But first, I'd love you sharedwith me before we recorded that.
(15:41):
You've been.
You've had your own spiritualdirector that you've worked with
for, I think you said 40 years.
So can you tell us one?
Why did you start.
Why did you decide to workwith A spirit director and then two.
How has working with yourspiritual director impacted and changed
your life?
Oh, sure.
So I've had various spiritualdirectors, not the same one, for
40 years.
(16:02):
And I started in spiritualdirection when I was a student at
Georgetown University.
So, you know, just for amoment, because I don't know if your
viewers know what spiritualdirection is.
So spiritual direction cutsacross a lot of traditions.
There's Catholic, Jewish, I'mtrained in the ignatian tradition.
So Saint Ignatius was a 16thcentury mystic saint from a soldier,
(16:27):
and he started the Order ofthe Society of Jesus.
So he has a few principles,and one of the first is finding God
in all things.
So your relationship in Godisn't just you sitting in a room
in your head.
It's seen in everything fromnature to your work, as you mentioned,
to relationships.
And he uses a lot ofcreativity in the work.
(16:49):
But the bottom line ofspiritual direction is it is for
people who want to get closerto God on a very personal level.
It is not Bible study, it isnot therapy.
I, as a director, am walkingalong beside you, listening contemplatively
and listening to where you'reseeing God in your life, or maybe
(17:13):
you're not even using that Godlanguage, what's happening in your
life.
And I'm picking out becausethe Holy Spirit is there with us,
the things and putting them infront of you and asking just questions
to help you grow in your own way.
So I don't want you to get anywhere.
I'm just there as a companion.
It's your journey and youknow, I'm there to accompany you.
(17:35):
And you meet once a month for50 minutes or so.
So here's my story.
When I was an undergraduate,I. I always had just a deep knowledge
of God.
We grew up literally in ahouse that was.
The church was at the base ofwhere we lived.
And so as a young child, myvery dear friend and I, Charlotte,
(17:56):
would play in the church.
We would pretend to be priestsin the church.
We were in folk group.
So there was a big blurredline between real life and God because,
you know, it always won for me.
By the time I got toGeorgetown, my faith was very deep
and I was actually thinking ofbecoming a nun.
And I started with my firstspiritual director just exploring
(18:18):
that question becausespiritual direction is really good
when you have a big decisionyou want to make and you want to
do some discernment.
And what I realized in thatrelationship is we weren't just working
on that decision.
I was just becoming more awareof the presence of God and where
he was showing up in my life.
And I would bring things toher and she would help me see things.
(18:41):
And it's kind of like whenyou're acquiring a new skill or when
you're.
As a dancer.
I'm trying a new move.
You practice, you practice,you practice, and then one day you
just have it.
And you can't say the momentthat you got it, but you got it.
And that's how spiritualdirection has been for me.
My relationship with God, mypersonal relationship, keeps growing,
(19:03):
but I can't ever point to youa defining moment to say, this is
where my relationship changed.
Are there times where I feelcloser to him?
Yes.
Are there times where I feelmore distant?
Yes.
And it's a journey together.
So that's, you know, mythoughts on spiritual direction.
(19:23):
Oh, that's so great.
Well, that's.
I mean, I'm sure others, too,at that age were looking at spiritual
direction, but still, that'spretty impressive that.
That young, right, in collegethat you're already like, okay, I'm
gonna go find a spiritual director.
So that's.
That's pretty amazing.
So one thing I'd like to knowis there's definitely obviously different
practices in the training thatyou did.
Right.
(19:43):
The.
How you.
The type of direction you did.
Yeah.
And so first I'd like to knowwhat is your number one spiritual
practice, that own life thatyou enjoy doing.
So whether you call it yourfavorite or just the one that you
do.
Most regularly, probably oneof my two most important anchors
is called the examine, andthat is very ignatian.
I like to do it at the end ofthe day because I just find it makes
(20:06):
most sense for me.
So that's where, you know, youstart out and you just thank God
and you ask him to give youthe courage to really honestly look
at your day.
And then I just roll the tapeand I look at where I roll back everything
that went through the day.
And I just asked him to showme where was I acting in a way that
was pleasing to you?
Where was I in sync with you?
(20:28):
And then show me the momentswhere that really wasn't a nice response.
I was kind of a jerk there.
I could have been more patient there.
Show me the things where Icould step better with you.
And it's amazing.
I really do find by doingthat, it's not always pretty, but
I do find a.
(20:49):
That I'm really able toidentify and say, there's so much
grace in my life.
I'm so grateful for all theways you show up in my life and all
the people who are in my life.
But then also, Kristen, I seethe honest, like, I need to be better
at that.
That really stunk and I needto send an apology note tomorrow
or make a phone call.
(21:11):
So that to me is probably mymost important practice.
I love that.
You know, I.
It's amazing.
Obviously this is a Christianpodcast, so most people listening
are probably, you know,practicing some version of Christianity.
But whether they are oraren't, the point is, is I think
that's an amazing practice toreally, like you said, review your
(21:32):
day.
Because, you know, some peoplemight do that weekly, monthly, but
to do it every day, like yousaid, it's, it's when it's top of
mind because when more timepasses, we don't recall all the things
always, you know, and solooking back, taking that little
bit of time and, and trying todo it from a place of seeing the
beauty, seeing the grace, thegratitude, the promises.
(21:55):
Right.
That all the things that God's doing.
But also, like you said, like,you know, maybe I was rushing and
I was snappy or maybe becausea lot of times we have a, we're playing
a part and we don't alwaysacknowledge it at the moment.
Like maybe we were triggeredby something or.
And it wasn't the other person.
So I think reflecting, likeyou said, to become aware of God
(22:16):
in our lives, but also of ourselves.
Right.
Like, and so we can be moreintentional with how we show up in
the world.
Yeah, I love that you said that.
It gives you more selfawareness and with more self awareness,
then, you know, that's thefirst step.
Also, you made me think ofsomething that I hadn't thought about
before.
I'm not a big journaler.
I assume viewers do like journaling.
(22:38):
If I had added, you know,journaling into this exam and just
writing down those things andthen was able to look back, I bet
it would be really interestingto see how the Lord was changing
my heart and therefore mybehavior over time.
Right, Absolutely.
I think you're right.
Yeah.
And I journal sometimes or, Imean, many times I do a prayer journal,
(23:00):
but I don't always do like anend of the day or first day journaling.
I mean, I have intentionssometimes to do them more.
But I do talk often aboutwriting down prayers and trying to
go back and see if they'vebeen answered.
Right.
Because to your point, if we,if we don't pay attention sometimes
we're missing those answered prayers.
I think so.
And like you said, if we don'twrite them Down.
(23:20):
Not that I write everythingdown, but it is true.
It's easy to miss it.
Right.
Just in the busyness of life.
Right.
Can I say one more thing onthat examine?
So, you know, one more pitchfor doing the examine at the end
of the day.
I think a lot of research hasshown that whatever is last in your
mind obviously works on your unconscious.
(23:41):
And sometimes you could wakeup to a dream and go, oh, that's
why I thought of that.
Because right before bed whenyou do the examine, I like it because
I feel like that's going towork in your unconscious and that's
a good thing to have at theend of the day, right before you
go to sleep, versus answeringtexts or something that might not
be as fruitful later.
(24:04):
Absolutely.
I think you're absolutelyright about that.
So, yeah, that's great.
So let me ask you this.
I know there's some differentspiritual practices that you do with
some of the people that workwith you or some of the groups that
work with you.
And I know one is the lectodivina and then one's holy listening.
So what would you share withus that we might be able to take
away or learn something fromor apply to our own lives?
(24:25):
Sure.
So let's start with lectio divina.
So lectio divina, as many ofthe viewers might know, is an ancient
old practice.
And it is basically taking apassage from the Bible and reading
it contemplatively threetimes, taking time in between, not
to think your way through whatyou just read at all, but just simmer
(24:47):
in it.
And a question is usuallyasked and then you just see what
pops into your head.
You can do it alone, but it'sreally powerful in a group.
So I've, in my leading of thisgroup, you know, I usually stick
with the New Testament most ofthe time.
And to be honest, in my prepfor it, I'm kind of led by the spirit
to see what it should be andthinking about what's going on within
(25:10):
the group.
But we read it three times,and I'll ask a question like, okay,
what is a word or a phrasethat comes to your mind when you
read that?
What happens is we all justtake some time, see what comes up,
and then one by one, we sharethe response.
We don't have a conversationabout it at that point.
(25:30):
We just share it.
And then someone reads it asecond time, and I'll ask a different
question like, what did youfeel when that passage was read?
And then we do that again, andthen we do it a third time.
And it is amazing to see a.
To hear seven or eightdifferent perspectives on the same
(25:52):
passage.
It opens up your imagination.
It helps you see, you know how that.
That thing about the elephantfeels differently depending on where
your hand is touching the elephant?
Well, it's sort of like that.
Yeah.
The whole thing looks different.
It's really powerful.
I've had one group that'stogether for 18 years, and just the
(26:13):
trust level of that group, youknow, it's.
People have come and gone, butthe familiarity, what is shared,
because obviously you're notjust having things come to mind that
are just the passage.
It's a lot of time what'sgoing on in your own life and why
a word struck you and why aphrase struck you.
So it's.
It ends up making for verydeep relationships.
(26:35):
And I laugh because sometimeswe share more in that group than
I've, you know, shared withfriends that I see in person.
Because, you know, I'm notalways in person.
In lectio divina.
Right?
Absolutely.
There's a trust in avulnerability that happens there,
right?
Yes.
Being in that space.
So, yeah, I love that.
That's beautiful.
(26:56):
And then what would you share?
Listening.
Yeah.
Holy listening.
So holy listening is a pra.
Is where you gather a numberof people.
Usually I think the.
The sweet spot is like five to nine.
And I will ask you to notthink about it, but just take some
quiet space and see what comesto mind.
(27:18):
In the last 24 hours, where doyou think you saw God?
Where did you feel God?
Or just something that isstuck with you and you can't shake
it?
And then we each share that story.
And this is where people thenwill give you feedback.
They don't give advice.
It's not about giving advice.
It's just about what thespirit might be talking through each
(27:40):
person in that group.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Yeah, it's more like what.
What they noticed or observedor came to them from the.
What the person shared.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
I love that.
So let me ask you this.
You shared, obviously, like,kind of how.
How you've worked withspiritual director.
You shared a little bit abouthow you work with people as spiritual
(28:01):
director.
What maybe just what would youjust share with people that may be
either spiritual direction,the concept of it's new to them,
or they haven't worked withsomeone before.
A spiritual director.
Because I'd say more than not,my audience probably falls there.
Right.
Where they're not working withsomebody now.
I don't mean They've maybenever had a conversation with a pastor
or their priest or whatever itmight be, but they might not be working
(28:23):
with somebody in that role.
I guess.
What would you just want toshare with us about that we haven't
already covered, like, thebenefit of it or like you said, how.
How does it.
I guess when or why mightsomeone decide to do that?
Right.
So somebody might decide to doit if they're making a big decision,
or somebody might decide to doit if they just feel dried up inside
(28:44):
or.
My relationship isn't goingair with God.
I don't feel God, I don'tsense God.
You know, most of my directeeshave come to me and they happen to
all be women who just fall inthat camp that I want more.
I want more in my relationshipwith God.
And look, it is three peoplein the room, the directee, myself
(29:05):
and the Holy Spirit.
And it is sort of a chemistry thing.
And what I always do is say,let's try it for three months.
We're going to be very honestwith each other.
You tell me if I'm beinghelpful to you.
And, you know, I'll also beobserving to think, to see if I think
this is a good fit.
So I would say it's really foranyone who wants to grow closer to
(29:26):
God and not in an academicway, not in getting to know who God
is by, you know, reading abouthim, but by experiencing him.
That was beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
I love that.
So, okay.
One of the things you and Iboth talk about, I think, or I don't
know in what context talkabout, but I know it's a subject
matter and of course it's inthe Bible, but is joy.
(29:48):
So let's tap into that for alittle bit.
So, you know, one of thethings I think is, you know, for
obviously joy is one of thefruits of the spirit or fruit of
the spirit.
But what would you just sharewith us about where can we find signs
of joy in the world and how dowe harness joy in our own lives from
a, you know, faith perspective?
Yeah.
And I think this is so muchthe goodness of God.
(30:10):
If we have our eyes and ourhearts open, the opportunities for
joy are everywhere.
Because if you think about it,what is joy a reflection of, but
a greater joy, which is his joy.
Right.
We're not talking abouthappiness and happy, which is an
emotion.
I honestly hate that word.
But the real true joy to me isa reflection, reflection of God.
And the more you're open andthe more you can train yourself to
(30:34):
not be judged or closed, whichI think is one of the hardest things
not to judge, but just, Imean, the easy, low hanging fruits
for me is always nature.
Like, I go out my door firstthing in the morning and I literally
just stand there to just hearand smell and see and like right
there, bang.
I've got some joy, you know,but people find joy in different
(30:58):
places.
I really find joy in all kindsof people.
I get a big kick out of peopleand I find joy in my passions.
I mean, I'm crazy about dance.
It's just who I am.
I'm crazy about this newimprov world.
So, you know, those aremoments of joy, but the real deep
joy, I like to try to keepexpanding and challenging myself.
(31:19):
What am I aware of?
What am I noticing?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it, it really doescome down to that is the more, the
better you get at noticing.
You know, letting yourself bein awe of God, his creation, his
creativity, how he made usalso unique and, you know, uniquely
made.
(31:39):
You know, it's just if we'repaying attention.
Yes.
Like you said, I'm.
I'm.
I'm just, I don't know,grateful in all the time.
And much like you, I.
1.
Nature is a big place for me.
But like you said, it's evenpeople just seeing people that are
so themselves like thatthey're the person walking down the
street and they don't carewhat anyone thinks.
(32:01):
They're dancing like all thosethings to me, like that just makes
me like smile so big.
Right?
Because I'm like, look at them.
Like they are embodying insome way.
Right.
So I don't know if this is abad habit or what, but I like to
have fun with people.
So, you know, I think like, ifyou just keep a little bit of your
silly self, right, you canhave a lot of fun in life.
(32:23):
But I want to go back to.
I feel like we're in thewizard of Oz and, you know, everything's
the yellow brick road leadingto one thing.
To be able to do what you'retalking about, noticing and being
aware.
We got to slow down.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, yeah, and I think that'sstill such a struggle for so many
people, you know, I mean, even.
Yeah.
(32:44):
Any people I know that are,you know, very into their faith.
Faith practices have arelationship with God.
They.
It's still a struggle, right?
It's still a struggle.
And it might go to that wholetopic of habits because, you know,
you get into a rhythm and youget into sort of a way of Responding
and it becomes a habit.
(33:05):
Something you don't thinkabout that becomes part of you.
And then you have to do thehard work of a. Recognizing it and
then walking it back.
That's right.
Well, yeah.
And it's.
It's habits.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But it's also thoughts.
I think a lot of us don'trealize we let the idea of hustle
take over what we're thinkingabout or what we think we have to
(33:27):
get done in a given day.
Your job's still going to bethere tomorrow and you're still going
to have all the things and thenext day the same.
Like.
Like at some point you have torealize what is a pace that's reasonable
to maintain.
And we weren't asked to do.
You know, I say all the time,we're not asked to do three days
worth of effort in one day yet.
That's what we're all or manyof us are trying to do.
(33:48):
You know, we're trying to cramin more than a day than God's ever
asked us to do.
Yeah.
And then we wonder why we'reexhausted and frenzied.
Yeah.
You know, I wish I had thisadvice that I now have, and it's
like the 5, 5, 5 rule.
When I was in my 20s and 30sand in corporate America, everything
to your point was it's got tobe done today.
I was in, you know, the worldof consciousness, consumer products
(34:10):
and everything was high intensity.
But along the way, once yourealize, does this matter in five
minutes?
Does this matter in five hours?
Does this matter in five days?
I think my response, I wouldhave been a very different person
versus that, a bit of an amped up.
Oh my gosh.
And maybe, you know, puttingfocus where it didn't even need to
(34:30):
be or maybe needed to stay inits right order.
Yeah.
Well, and I think that's.
Sadly, that is the culturethat most corporate jobs and many
other jobs are, are they'repushing that narrative.
Right.
And so they do make you feellike if you want to keep your job,
you want to keep yourpaycheck, then you have to keep up.
Right.
And so I get why we get.
We fall into that mindset orthat worry, but we have to realize
(34:56):
that we don't have to stay inthat construct.
Right.
We can actually pull ourselvesout of it.
Like, you still want to getthe job done, you still want to do
a good job, good works, but wedon't have to play that game.
Right.
We don't have to.
To live the way that you'reyou're feeling that you have to live.
But like you said, a lot ofthat has to do with habit and then
repeat thoughts like, I haveto, I have to, I have to.
(35:16):
Instead of like, what is mostimportant for me to get done today
and what can wait.
Exactly.
As the person decide.
Yeah.
Not our bosses priorities.
When I was so I was a productmanager at Clarol in New York City
and it was fast paced andrough and tumble and I was in new
products and I had a boss whoevery day was changing what new product
(35:38):
we were going to go after.
This was like honestly whenMoose was being invented.
I mean, we're talking 80s andso, you know, I didn't thrive very
well there.
In fact, I ended up onprobation because they thought I
couldn't take something to afinish line.
And the person who was then incharge of me said, look it, there's
a very easy answer.
(35:58):
Don't do everything that's inyour inbox.
Look at it and see what really matters.
And do you know what?
My Entire life changed?
3/4 of that inbox I ignoredand all of a sudden I was able to
focus on what matters.
Yes.
I mean, it's great.
It.
Wow.
Who knew?
Yeah.
So you were actuallypracticing discernment but in your
(36:19):
job.
And you were also having, youwere realizing you have some autonomy.
Like, yeah, you have to be thedecider at the end of the day.
Because I get it, like we havedeadlines in the world.
We have all these things.
But like you said, you'renever going to hit the deadline if
you do every single littlething right.
If everything's a fire, you'renever going to actually.
Right.
Yeah.
So that's, that's good.
(36:41):
There was something that yousaid that I wanted to bring up, but
I.
That that's passed.
So now.
So.
Okay, what else would you justwant to share with us to just encourage
the audience or, you know,just all the things you've walked
through, like what's justcoming to you that you feel like
we haven't covered yet thatyou would really like to just share
with us.
(37:01):
Yeah.
You know, one thing I wouldsay is just be yourself.
Be yourself and keep listeningto what's going on inside of you.
Don't, don't, don't try tofollow what you think you should
be doing.
Just follow your intuition.
Because if you're a prayerfulperson, which you are, you wouldn't
(37:24):
be listening to this podcast.
You're going to be.
You're already in the spirit.
And so just, just trust andgive yourself a break.
I think, you know, when I wasa younger mom and when I was juggling
career and mom and all that,I. I never thought I could do it
all because I pretty.
I learned pretty fast, youcan't do it all.
You just got to focus onwhoever's yelling the loudest.
(37:48):
You know, who hasn't had thatif you have multiple kids?
But, you know, just recognizethat you were.
You are human and just, youknow, you know, you know, just listen,
take your time, breathe.
I'm a big believer in breathing.
I mean, when my kids wereyoung, I would give myself a timeout
(38:09):
if I needed it, just torecalibrate, just to have a moment,
you know, just to say, help me.
Absolutely.
Oh, yeah.
I've definitely had to walkout of the room before.
Quite the same, you know,like, we're like, okay, it's getting
to be too much with a cryingbaby screaming.
You know, I'm like, okay, Ineed to just put the baby in the
crib and just take a breathfor a minute.
(38:30):
Right.
And, like, reset myself.
Right.
So I can do more of that.
So, yeah, I think.
I think I know what I wasgoing to mention.
And it was.
We both kind of alluded to thefact that we should be ourselves
and that each of us and Idefinitely talk about this very regularly,
but each of us has theseunique interests and passion and
gifts.
And I think sometimesChristian women feel that they're
(38:52):
being selfish for pursuingthese things or.
And that's one of the things Italk about all the time, is reigniting
your passion.
Right.
Which has to do with yourpurpose or at least maybe in this
season.
But what would you share withus about that?
Because this is somethingwhere I continue to have women raise
their hand and say, like, Ifeel like the spark isn't there.
I feel like I'm on autopilot.
I don't.
I don't feel like I can givemyself time to do things that bring
(39:16):
me joy.
But God designed us that way,is how I see it.
Like, he uniquely made you tohave interest.
Like, not all my friends likereading Christian authors since I
was going.
Taking religion classes in college.
Right.
Like, I. I like things that alot of my friends don't like.
Right.
Like, we were all made uniquely.
And so I'm just curious whatyou would choose.
And, you know, I have a couplethoughts on this.
(39:40):
First of all, listen, unlesswe were made to be monks, where,
you know, our whole job issupposed to be silence and prayer,
we weren't made to be just praying.
In a room by ourselves all day.
We're made to be in the world.
And as you said, we were made uniquely.
And wouldn't it be sad, Ithink, for myself, if God gave me
this gift of dance and I neverused it?
(40:02):
So I don't use it because Iwant to be noticed by people.
I mean, yes, I like winning anevent, but honestly, I like the challenge
and the closeness in therelationship of the dance partner,
the dance studio, fellowcompetitors, what I can bring to
others, I think it's fine aslong as you're not doing it for your
(40:24):
own glory.
If you're chasing a passionbecause you want to be noticed and
you want, you know, the act,all the accolades, then, honey, I
think you've picked the wrong thing.
But if you have a gift or ifyou have an interest, God wants you
to be in the world.
He wants you to share your gift.
He wants you to be.
To make others, you know,happy and enjoy and be part of the
(40:45):
experience with you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think too often, you know,because women tend to be the caregivers,
because we tend to put otherpeople's needs first, right.
As moms, as maybe caregiversof someone older parent, maybe of
our spouses, whatever it mightbe, right.
A lot of us are more oftenvolunteers and more things.
(41:07):
But I think because of that,which are all beautiful and wonderful
things and I think how wewere, most of us were made, but it
can allow us to kind ofignore, right, some parts of ourselves.
And I think the risk of that,though, is that God has so much more
for us, but we have to bewilling to say yes to the things
(41:28):
that he has designed us totruly have interest in.
Right.
Like some people love thingsthat have to do with, like, people
passing and like, caring forthem in that work.
Like, like their interestsaren't just, like you said, they're
not selfish interests, they'reinterest because it's unique to you
or how the intersection meetsof those things.
So.
And, you know, you just mademe think about something.
(41:48):
I mean, it's the old glass.
If you keep pouring out andyou're not filling yourself with
anything, you are not going tobe coming with joy.
Talk about joy.
I mean, I honestly, my dancebrings me so much joy and fills me
up that I have an aging, youknow, mom that I'm involved with.
(42:09):
I'm trying to be a good grandparent.
I can, I've got a team in workI can give because I've been filled
up in a.
In a way that's creative andand just, you know, brings.
Brings me everything good.
So then I could turn aroundand pour it back out.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It's so true.
I mean, right?
And that's why we go back tobe renewed and refreshed every day.
(42:29):
Right.
In Christ or in God.
So absolutely.
Okay, so last question.
What is filling you up orfueling you these days?
What is one or two things thatjust are, you know, exciting you
or just keeping you?
Obviously, dance is one ofthem in your faith.
So what else would you share?
Yeah, so I've had this seasonof a lot of injuries, and my husband
(42:51):
had Lyme disease in the winter.
So I am really appreciatingthe moment that nobody's sick, nothing's
broken, nothing needs torehab, you know, where you're spending
all this time.
So one is just being healthy,and I'm really just so grateful for
that.
And then the other thing is,we have a new grandbaby, and that
(43:13):
veil is so thin between.
You know, I forget when you'rea parent yourself, you know, you're
just not.
You're so invested in doingthe right thing and you're tired
and all that.
But as a grandparent, you justsee the closeness between the baby
and God, and there's so manygifts to be enjoyed there that I'm
(43:35):
really enjoying the baby himself.
But I'm also enjoying seeingGod through this little tiny individual.
It's so easy to see hisabsolute, pure love that way.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Okay, so, Robin, tell us, howcan people learn more about your
spiritual, you know, you as aspiritual director and your ministry
(43:56):
and all that.
Right.
So I have a very simplewebsite in-sacred-space.com where
you can learn about thedifferent practices.
And if someone's interestedin, you know, pursuing one of these
or wants to learn more or Ican be helpful in directing them.
Probably easiest is just toemail me@r cancellicloud.com I think
(44:19):
that's probably easiest.
Okay, great.
Wonderful.
Well, thank you for taking thetime to join us today to share so
much information aboutspiritual direction and about these
different beautiful faithpractices and just sharing your heart
with us about the joy andgoing through different seasons.
Thank you for your podcast.
There's nothing more importantin life.
(44:40):
It's great to have theseconversations, and I really liked
being here.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
As we wrap up today, I justwanted to share a couple ideas with
you that I think really relateto the conversation that Robin and
I had today.
The first is in the book Chasethe Lion by Pastor or Dr. Mark Batterson.
(45:00):
He says there areopportunities all around you all
the time.
Opportunities to showkindness, opportunities show courage.
And just like the photographerwho's ready to click and capture
the moment, you have to beready to seize the opportunity.
And obviously in ourconversation today, Robin and I talked
about we have to be present inour lives, not rushing from one thing
to the next.
We have to allow the space inbetween so that we are present in
(45:24):
those moments and we arepaying attention and listening to
that small voice that Godmight be prompting us to be a part
of something.
And I want to share an ideawith you from the book At Home in
this Life by Jerusalem Jackson Greer.
She's basically explainingthat she had also gone through a
season of waiting.
(45:44):
She was basically on the couchfor months, her foot in a boot.
And in other words, she wasn'table to do what she usually does.
And she said she was readingJeremiah I think 29 and she says
a suspicion that had begunwith reading St. Benedict kind of
hit her.
And it says balance isn't amatter of getting what we think will
(46:04):
make us happy.
It is about cultivating agrateful and present heart right
where we are.
And then she shares a couplequestions that I think we could all
benefit from asking ourselves.
She says, what if instead ofseeking balance, I seek rootedness?
Can I find a way to live aslower version of modern life?
She says, is it possible toslow down internally right where
(46:25):
I am without changing myexternal circumstances, job, school,
home, responsibilities.
And I thought that's abeautiful question.
Then she also another questionshe asks is, can we grow deep spiritual
roots producing fruit in ourday to day lives?
And then in her book she alsoshares 1 Corinthians 7:17.
(46:47):
So I want to share twoversions of that with you.
One is from the newinternational version of the Bible.
It's nevertheless,nevertheless, each person should
live as a believer in whateversituation the Lord has assigned to
them, just as God has called them.
This is the rule I lay down inall the churches.
In her book she shares theversion from the message which says,
(47:10):
and don't be wishing weresomeplace else or with someone else.
Where you are right now isGod's place for you.
Live and obey and love andbelieve right there.
And I thought these werebeautiful to share.
When we talked about beingpresent and we talked about deepening
our spiritual practices.
Having a grateful and openedheart allows us to deepen our relationship,
(47:31):
our the experience that wehave with God in our lives.
And so I just wanted to sharethose things with you.
But once Again, I do hope thatyou can take something out of this
episode and if there'sanything that you want to that hit
you or struck you, I'd love tohear from you.
You can email me from mywebsite, you can DM me on Instagram.
(47:51):
Also, I did want to let youknow, if you haven't already joined
my email weekly emailnewsletter, head over to KristinFitch.com
and join our community.
I usually send a weekly emailjust to encourage you, to uplift
you and to help you deepenyour relationships, your faith, to
change your perspective andjust to step into more of what God
(48:12):
has for you.
Also, if you're somebody thatis looking to make a change, want
to make a shift in your lifeor you just feel stuck in a season
or a part of your life, youcan definitely check out Robin's
Spiritual Direction Offering.
And then I also do coachingmentor sessions.
All of the information is onmy website, but I would love to connect
with you, talk to you and seeif doing a session is the right fit
(48:36):
for you.
But I love helping women walkthrough the season they're in and
to see what's on the horizonfor them.
So if you're looking forsomebody to come alongside of you,
definitely reach out and checkout the information.
Thanks again for listening tothe show and if you enjoyed today's
episode, we would love it ifyou could take a minute to leave
a rating and and review onApple Podcast because it helps our
(48:57):
show get discovered by more people.
Hi.
Today in the podcast we aregoing to talk about how can we experience
God in a deeper way in our lives.
I have a guest interview todayto share with you with a spiritual
director who's going to sharewith us simple ways that we can do
just this.
We're also going to talk abouthow can we see God move in our lives
more and how can we see moreof the joy that's all around us from
(00:20):
the joy that God is bringinginto the world and into our lives?
It's a great episode.
I think it's going to fill youup and I can't wait to share it.
Hey friend, are you cravingdeeper faith, renewed purpose and
more joy in your everyday life?
Welcome to Faith Healed Womanpodcast that helps Christian women
grow spiritually pursue God'scalling and embrace the abundant
life he has for you?
(00:41):
I'm Kristen, an encourager,mentor, entrepreneur, wife and mom,
here to uplift, equip andinspire you with faith filled conversations
and biblical wisdom.
Subscribe now so you nevermiss an episode and join our faith
fueled community for more encouragement.
Hi.
Today on the podcast I wouldlike to welcome our guest, Robin
Kensell.
She's, she is a spiritualdirector and she works with groups
(01:03):
and individuals in herspiritual ministry in Sacred Space.
She's also crowned MissConnecticut Senior America 2025.
And she's a founding realestate broker in Greenwich, Connecticut
for Compass.
She's also one of the top oneand a half percent agents in the
US and she's a six time pro amBallroom Dance champion.
So I'm excited to have thisconversation with Robin today because
(01:25):
we're going to step intofaith, what spiritual direction can
do for us.
We're going to talk about howcan we deepen our faith and we're
going to talk about how do wetap into more joy and just deepen
our life in meaningful andrich ways.
So I'm so excited for this conversation.
Robin, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
And I'm so excited to be here.
(01:46):
Thanks.
So could you just start offwith telling us maybe a little bit
about what life looks like andwhat you're up to now?
Yes.
So, you know, it's interesting.
I'm 67 years old.
I'll put that right out there.
And this is sort of a chapter change.
I've been going through achapter change.
Life is making some shifts appropriately.
(02:06):
So I'm continuing my spiritualdirection practice, which I just
started four years, four and ahalf years ago.
So expanding that anddeepening into that.
But I've also got some newThings going on.
You mentioned I was crownedMiss Senior America, which is on
the Miss America plusplatform, but it's women for over
(02:26):
60 and I'll be representingConnecticut in October.
I was supposed to go lastyear, but I broke my foot three weeks
before the pageant in theNational Dance Championships.
So it's been a season, anentire year of honestly, Kristen,
injuries.
I had to rehab a broken footand then I went into a bruised toe
(02:48):
and then I had sciatica.
So life has been a little different.
I've had to explore who am Iwithout the dancing for bits of time.
And I've had some fundiscoveries like improv.
I wanted to try acting and Ifound a specializes in improv and
it's opened up an entire newworld to me.
That's amazing.
(03:08):
I love it.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's so great.
And you're right, all of usare going to have so many seasons
right through our lives,whatever age we are.
And it really is a continuous reinvention.
But we're also going to haveseasons of waiting, of preparation,
seasons of new growth, seasonsthat sometimes growth doesn't seem
like it's happening, but it is.
(03:29):
It's just slow.
And, you know, I love thatduring those seasons where you had
to pause or slow down, youfound other things that just lit
you up that excited you andlet you kind of stretch yourself
in new ways.
So I think that's beautiful.
And I love that, you know, I'm.
Going to be honest, last yearI also ended up being number one
(03:51):
in my age category and stylefor Doll ballroom.
And that meant I spent a lotof time in dance.
And during the year, I didkind of turn to the Lord and say,
am I spending too much time?
Is this one of thosedisordered attachments?
That's a language we would usein St. Ignatius's language.
And I'm trained as an Ignatiantradition spiritual director.
(04:16):
And there was that littlenagging voice in the back of my head
that you are spending a lot oftime in dance.
And I did, you know, say, God,if this isn't a good thing, just
sort of let me know.
So he was rather dramatic inbreaking my.
In having my foot broken, butit was good because it also made
me slow down.
(04:36):
So not only did I say, what doI want to do with this time that
I haven't done, but it alsogot me back to my spiritual practices,
which, you know how that goes.
Sometimes you've got goodspiritual practices in place, and
then little by little, thetime gets slighter.
You know, I'm a daily mass goer.
That's one of my practices.
(04:57):
And you skip a day here orthere and before you know it, it's
sort of like that sailboatthat's gone off chart by a degree
here and there, and then allof a sudden you're in a brand new
direction that you reallydidn't want to be in.
Right, Absolutely.
I think I did a short episodeabout that, about how pilots.
Right.
If they're even off course, Ithink it's by one degree.
(05:18):
But over several hours they'revery off course.
Right.
And so it's to your point is,I think most people, you know, especially,
you know, whether Christianout, but Christians, obviously, we're
talking about, we've all gonethrough times where our faith journey
ebbs and flows a little bit.
Right.
And like you said, though, ifwe're not careful, it can really,
(05:39):
you can realize look back andsay, you know, in the last month,
have I been putting God first?
Right.
Have I been putting the thingsthat I do in my faith before other
things, you know, or at leastkeeping them as a priority.
So I think you're so rightabout that.
And it is important toregularly reflect on that and to
revisit our patterns, I think,especially with our faith.
(06:01):
Yeah.
And I guess I want to add onto that that, you know, in this slight
getting off course and thenbeing forced to have some quiet time,
that white space and that evenphysical slowing down and having
the time to get back into thepractices and just, you know, and
just breathe and simmer in theLord was really important.
(06:23):
And I don't know, honestly, ifI had would have done that had I
not had the broken foot.
Yeah.
I mean, there's so manyexamples, people you'll talk to,
stories like that wheresomeone had a job change or lost
their job or had an injury.
Two summers ago, I had a head injury.
I fell off of a golf cart.
(06:45):
I mean, that was okay, but Idid have a, like a scalp hematoma
and I did fracture my skull.
But I mean, I didn't have tohave surgery or anything.
But I had some really weirdsymptoms that happened a week later.
Like my hearing went crazy inmy ear.
I couldn't smell.
Like it was just all thesestrange things.
But my point is, is I had tokind of slow it down that summer.
(07:05):
Right.
I had to say no to some stuff.
It wasn't like I had any crazymajor like, you know, where I was,
couldn't get out of bed or anything.
But I still knew that to Letmy body heal.
I still did stuff, but I hadto slow down, right?
I had to be in a season ofpause and.
But it was the same thing.
Like I didn't want that to happen.
You know, no one wants aninjury, right?
(07:27):
But it was also a big time forme of reflection.
You know, it was a time for meto grow, like you said in my faith.
Because one of the things Iknew is some people don't make it
when they fall and hit theirhead when a golf cart's moving, right?
And I did.
I still have purpose andreason to be here.
And I didn't take that for granted.
And so I, I think you're right.
Sometimes we don't want to pause.
(07:49):
We don't want to be in aseason of waiting.
But usually there's so muchfor us to do in that season and a
lot of times it is for us to,to go to God.
It's a time for us that he'spreparing us for something else and
maybe even something, evenwhen it doesn't seem like it and
it seems like maybe adisappointment sometimes.
And you know, I want to addsomething else there.
(08:10):
The other thing I learned isthat in the slowing down I actually
had more time to be morepresent to people.
Not like the things that areon my calendar, but you know, you're
out in the world and someoneis crossing the street and you have
that extra moment because youhaven't jam packed your schedule
to offer a hand.
And it sounds like such alittle thing, but I started making
(08:32):
it a game that, where I wouldlike stick $5 in my pocket because
I was living in New York atthe time.
And to say, okay, who can Itouch that I wouldn't have touched.
And honestly I don't know if Iwould have done that had I just kept
going at my rather fast jampacked pace.
Yeah, I agree with you.
(08:53):
It's funny.
I just recorded a mini soloepisode this morning somewhat about
that.
I was reading one of thedevotionals this morning by Bob Goff
and it was talking about kindof being present but, but the point
was, is like how often are westanding in a line scrolling on our
phones, ignoring the peoplearound us?
And I know that's he's alsotalking about deepening relationships,
(09:14):
which I'm sure we'll get intothat later.
But you know, I gave theexample that I've learned.
One I used to like, oh, I'm ina long line, it's not moving.
There's an issue.
I'm going to move lines.
But Every single time I didthat, my line would take longer somehow,
right?
So I've learned that is a timefor me to be patient and just wait.
It's a time where someone willstrike up a conversation with me,
(09:35):
right?
Because we're sort of sittingthere like, oh, you know, waiting.
But even the other day at thegrocery, it was pouring rain.
I mean, it was like a dilute,a deluge.
And I didn't bring an umbrellabecause it wasn't raining when I
went in.
And so when I went out, Ilooked at Radar, and it was.
It was not going to slow downanytime soon.
So I waited out under theawning for a few minutes.
(09:57):
So I'm just gonna have to gofor it.
But, I mean, I had a lot ofgroceries, so it was going to take
me a couple minutes to unload.
And there was a couple otherpeople waiting as I was.
But a couple of them were, youknow, older than me, women, and they
were just kind of standingthere waiting.
And.
But I saw Radar wasn't gonna.
Like I said, it wasn't gonnalet up.
So when I got to my car, youknow, I just had that little voice
that said, go back.
You know?
So I grabbed my two umbrellas,and I said to both the women, like,
(10:20):
here, I can give you one of myumbrellas and walk you to your car.
And they both kind of lookedat me, were sizing me up, like, should
I trust this person?
And anyway, so the one woman'slike, oh, okay, you know, she'll
let me go with her.
So I did, and I took her, andshe's like, yeah, I saw you coming
back, and I was kind ofwondering what, you know, what you
were doing.
Then I went back, and I askedthe other woman, you know, I can
(10:41):
help you, or you can use the umbrella.
And she's like, no, no.
So twice she told me, no, no,she'd wait.
And I said, okay, okay, youknow, so she stayed.
But my point is, if I wasalways hurrying, then I'd miss those
moments where I could just dosomething little to remind someone
that I see them, that theymatter, that, you know, that we're
going to take time out of our schedule.
(11:01):
I was already dripping wet.
What was a couple more minutesof getting wetter?
But it's exactly what yousaid, which is too many of us.
And that's why I shared this morning.
Are so stuck and caught up inthe next place we have to be and
get our to do list done, thatwe're not always present with the
people around us, whether it'sat the store or in our communities
or sometimes even in our homehomes or our close friends.
(11:23):
So, yeah, I love shared that.
I love.
I love your umbrella story.
And, you know, I say somethingnow when I'm in, like, the long grocery
line or if something doesn'twork out the way I planned, because
the only thing we can reallycontrol is our responses.
We can't control the situation.
That's right.
So much.
And I.
And now I. I find myselfsaying, okay, God, that's not going
(11:45):
to happen, or, okay, God, I'mstuck here.
What do you have planned for me?
And it's so funny how when youchange your mindset and you change
your attitude towards what'shappening, the whole thing can look
completely different.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, years ago, I sort ofcame to this conclusion for myself
that it's never in the.
(12:06):
How do I say this?
Of course our work matters.
Showing up at work, you know,doing all the things, whether we're
doing something that has to do with.
It's very obvious, right?
Like talking about faith on a podcast.
But also just any work we do, right.
We can show up and we can bea, you know, a person of faith and
all that.
But what I learned long ago isit has so much more to do with people,
and it's in the moments.
(12:27):
Like my dad, he did pass inFebruary, but he had Parkinson's,
so, you know, it got worse and worse.
But the point is, is the daysthat I would go over there, and luckily
he lived near us, so most ofmy siblings and I were nearby.
And as he was getting, youknow, worse, we were over there more
helping my stepmom.
But the point was, is I knewthat it's things like that, taking
(12:48):
time out of a schedule that Icould have said, oh, I could just
keep doing work.
That was more important to me,invest in people, invest in the relationships
than anything else I probablydid that day.
Right.
It wasn't important, but.
But I've learned that it'sabout people and me investing in
people.
It's so funny that you bringthis up.
(13:08):
I had dinner last night withmy dear friend who's also my spiritual
director.
He's a priest.
And he unexpectedly was intown because he's moved and I don't
get to see him often.
And we were talking aboutrelationships, and, you know, that's
what life is all about.
God wants a relationship with us.
He put more than one personhere so we could be in relationship
(13:31):
with each other to glorify his relationship.
I mean, to me, there's nothingmore important in life than relationships.
So when we're making differentchoices that are shortchanging our
opportunity as you didn't doin the, in the grocery line and with
the umbrellas, you know, we'renot really taking advantage of.
(13:53):
Of what he wants most for us.
Yeah.
And like I said, I've had somany things that keep hitting that
home for me.
So I have three sons.
They're.
They're all now 18 and over,so 18 to 23, and they're still all
at home.
You know, two are in collegeand then one is finished his degree
for now.
And he's.
(14:13):
He's working, but he's, like,looking for that career job.
So he's at that phase.
But he, my oldest, had comehome from college a year and a half
in with depression and things.
And so I remember, I think Idid a podcast episode and I think
I wrote about it.
But, you know, I said, I thinkthe most important thing I did today
was make peanut butter toast.
Yeah.
In other words, it's thelittle things we do for people.
(14:35):
And in that case, my son, hedidn't want to talk a lot about it.
I mean, at the beginning he did.
What he needed to know is thathe was cared for and it didn't matter
what was going on.
Like, I was there in the waythat he needed, which was that that's
what he wanted.
Yeah.
You showed up, and you showedup in a certain way.
I love this story so muchbecause you are talking about it's
(14:57):
not the size of the thing.
Mother Teresa's quote, youknow, which talks about, we all can't
do great things, but we can dosmall things with great love.
Like, to me, the end of story.
Like, we could just shut itall down now.
And that's what the peanutbutter chips are.
Yes, that's exactly.
Small thing, great love.
And we don't even know theamount of impact that has made on
(15:19):
your son that day at thatmoment when he needed it.
That's right.
Absolutely.
Oh, I love it.
Okay, so what I would love totalk about is you.
We're going to get into kindof you being a spiritual director
and what that looks like andlike, how can we tap into more of
that, you know, or understand that?
But first, I'd love you sharedwith me before we recorded that.
(15:41):
You've been.
You've had your own spiritualdirector that you've worked with
for, I think you said 40 years.
So can you tell us one?
Why did you start.
Why did you decide to workwith A spirit director and then two.
How has working with yourspiritual director impacted and changed
your life?
Oh, sure.
So I've had various spiritualdirectors, not the same one, for
40 years.
(16:02):
And I started in spiritualdirection when I was a student at
Georgetown University.
So, you know, just for amoment, because I don't know if your
viewers know what spiritualdirection is.
So spiritual direction cutsacross a lot of traditions.
There's Catholic, Jewish, I'mtrained in the ignatian tradition.
So Saint Ignatius was a 16thcentury mystic saint from a soldier,
(16:27):
and he started the Order ofthe Society of Jesus.
So he has a few principles,and one of the first is finding God
in all things.
So your relationship in Godisn't just you sitting in a room
in your head.
It's seen in everything fromnature to your work, as you mentioned,
to relationships.
And he uses a lot ofcreativity in the work.
(16:49):
But the bottom line ofspiritual direction is it is for
people who want to get closerto God on a very personal level.
It is not Bible study, it isnot therapy.
I, as a director, am walkingalong beside you, listening contemplatively
and listening to where you'reseeing God in your life, or maybe
(17:13):
you're not even using that Godlanguage, what's happening in your
life.
And I'm picking out becausethe Holy Spirit is there with us,
the things and putting them infront of you and asking just questions
to help you grow in your own way.
So I don't want you to get anywhere.
I'm just there as a companion.
It's your journey and youknow, I'm there to accompany you.
(17:35):
And you meet once a month for50 minutes or so.
So here's my story.
When I was an undergraduate,I. I always had just a deep knowledge
of God.
We grew up literally in ahouse that was.
The church was at the base ofwhere we lived.
And so as a young child, myvery dear friend and I, Charlotte,
(17:56):
would play in the church.
We would pretend to be priestsin the church.
We were in folk group.
So there was a big blurredline between real life and God because,
you know, it always won for me.
By the time I got toGeorgetown, my faith was very deep
and I was actually thinking ofbecoming a nun.
And I started with my firstspiritual director just exploring
(18:18):
that question becausespiritual direction is really good
when you have a big decisionyou want to make and you want to
do some discernment.
And what I realized in thatrelationship is we weren't just working
on that decision.
I was just becoming more awareof the presence of God and where
he was showing up in my life.
And I would bring things toher and she would help me see things.
(18:41):
And it's kind of like whenyou're acquiring a new skill or when
you're.
As a dancer.
I'm trying a new move.
You practice, you practice,you practice, and then one day you
just have it.
And you can't say the momentthat you got it, but you got it.
And that's how spiritualdirection has been for me.
My relationship with God, mypersonal relationship, keeps growing,
(19:03):
but I can't ever point to youa defining moment to say, this is
where my relationship changed.
Are there times where I feelcloser to him?
Yes.
Are there times where I feelmore distant?
Yes.
And it's a journey together.
So that's, you know, mythoughts on spiritual direction.
(19:23):
Oh, that's so great.
Well, that's.
I mean, I'm sure others, too,at that age were looking at spiritual
direction, but still, that'spretty impressive that.
That young, right, in collegethat you're already like, okay, I'm
gonna go find a spiritual director.
So that's.
That's pretty amazing.
So one thing I'd like to knowis there's definitely obviously different
practices in the training thatyou did.
Right.
(19:43):
The.
How you.
The type of direction you did.
Yeah.
And so first I'd like to knowwhat is your number one spiritual
practice, that own life thatyou enjoy doing.
So whether you call it yourfavorite or just the one that you
do.
Most regularly, probably oneof my two most important anchors
is called the examine, andthat is very ignatian.
I like to do it at the end ofthe day because I just find it makes
(20:06):
most sense for me.
So that's where, you know, youstart out and you just thank God
and you ask him to give youthe courage to really honestly look
at your day.
And then I just roll the tapeand I look at where I roll back everything
that went through the day.
And I just asked him to showme where was I acting in a way that
was pleasing to you?
Where was I in sync with you?
(20:28):
And then show me the momentswhere that really wasn't a nice response.
I was kind of a jerk there.
I could have been more patient there.
Show me the things where Icould step better with you.
And it's amazing.
I really do find by doingthat, it's not always pretty, but
I do find a.
(20:49):
That I'm really able toidentify and say, there's so much
grace in my life.
I'm so grateful for all theways you show up in my life and all
the people who are in my life.
But then also, Kristen, I seethe honest, like, I need to be better
at that.
That really stunk and I needto send an apology note tomorrow
or make a phone call.
(21:11):
So that to me is probably mymost important practice.
I love that.
You know, I.
It's amazing.
Obviously this is a Christianpodcast, so most people listening
are probably, you know,practicing some version of Christianity.
But whether they are oraren't, the point is, is I think
that's an amazing practice toreally, like you said, review your
(21:32):
day.
Because, you know, some peoplemight do that weekly, monthly, but
to do it every day, like yousaid, it's, it's when it's top of
mind because when more timepasses, we don't recall all the things
always, you know, and solooking back, taking that little
bit of time and, and trying todo it from a place of seeing the
beauty, seeing the grace, thegratitude, the promises.
(21:55):
Right.
That all the things that God's doing.
But also, like you said, like,you know, maybe I was rushing and
I was snappy or maybe becausea lot of times we have a, we're playing
a part and we don't alwaysacknowledge it at the moment.
Like maybe we were triggeredby something or.
And it wasn't the other person.
So I think reflecting, likeyou said, to become aware of God
(22:16):
in our lives, but also of ourselves.
Right.
Like, and so we can be moreintentional with how we show up in
the world.
Yeah, I love that you said that.
It gives you more selfawareness and with more self awareness,
then, you know, that's thefirst step.
Also, you made me think ofsomething that I hadn't thought about
before.
I'm not a big journaler.
I assume viewers do like journaling.
(22:38):
If I had added, you know,journaling into this exam and just
writing down those things andthen was able to look back, I bet
it would be really interestingto see how the Lord was changing
my heart and therefore mybehavior over time.
Right, Absolutely.
I think you're right.
Yeah.
And I journal sometimes or, Imean, many times I do a prayer journal,
(23:00):
but I don't always do like anend of the day or first day journaling.
I mean, I have intentionssometimes to do them more.
But I do talk often aboutwriting down prayers and trying to
go back and see if they'vebeen answered.
Right.
Because to your point, if we,if we don't pay attention sometimes
we're missing those answered prayers.
I think so.
And like you said, if we don'twrite them Down.
(23:20):
Not that I write everythingdown, but it is true.
It's easy to miss it.
Right.
Just in the busyness of life.
Right.
Can I say one more thing onthat examine?
So, you know, one more pitchfor doing the examine at the end
of the day.
I think a lot of research hasshown that whatever is last in your
mind obviously works on your unconscious.
(23:41):
And sometimes you could wakeup to a dream and go, oh, that's
why I thought of that.
Because right before bed whenyou do the examine, I like it because
I feel like that's going towork in your unconscious and that's
a good thing to have at theend of the day, right before you
go to sleep, versus answeringtexts or something that might not
be as fruitful later.
(24:04):
Absolutely.
I think you're absolutelyright about that.
So, yeah, that's great.
So let me ask you this.
I know there's some differentspiritual practices that you do with
some of the people that workwith you or some of the groups that
work with you.
And I know one is the lectodivina and then one's holy listening.
So what would you share withus that we might be able to take
away or learn something fromor apply to our own lives?
(24:25):
Sure.
So let's start with lectio divina.
So lectio divina, as many ofthe viewers might know, is an ancient
old practice.
And it is basically taking apassage from the Bible and reading
it contemplatively threetimes, taking time in between, not
to think your way through whatyou just read at all, but just simmer
(24:47):
in it.
And a question is usuallyasked and then you just see what
pops into your head.
You can do it alone, but it'sreally powerful in a group.
So I've, in my leading of thisgroup, you know, I usually stick
with the New Testament most ofthe time.
And to be honest, in my prepfor it, I'm kind of led by the spirit
to see what it should be andthinking about what's going on within
(25:10):
the group.
But we read it three times,and I'll ask a question like, okay,
what is a word or a phrasethat comes to your mind when you
read that?
What happens is we all justtake some time, see what comes up,
and then one by one, we sharethe response.
We don't have a conversationabout it at that point.
(25:30):
We just share it.
And then someone reads it asecond time, and I'll ask a different
question like, what did youfeel when that passage was read?
And then we do that again, andthen we do it a third time.
And it is amazing to see a.
To hear seven or eightdifferent perspectives on the same
(25:52):
passage.
It opens up your imagination.
It helps you see, you know how that.
That thing about the elephantfeels differently depending on where
your hand is touching the elephant?
Well, it's sort of like that.
Yeah.
The whole thing looks different.
It's really powerful.
I've had one group that'stogether for 18 years, and just the
(26:13):
trust level of that group, youknow, it's.
People have come and gone, butthe familiarity, what is shared,
because obviously you're notjust having things come to mind that
are just the passage.
It's a lot of time what'sgoing on in your own life and why
a word struck you and why aphrase struck you.
So it's.
It ends up making for verydeep relationships.
(26:35):
And I laugh because sometimeswe share more in that group than
I've, you know, shared withfriends that I see in person.
Because, you know, I'm notalways in person.
In lectio divina.
Right?
Absolutely.
There's a trust in avulnerability that happens there,
right?
Yes.
Being in that space.
So, yeah, I love that.
That's beautiful.
(26:56):
And then what would you share?
Listening.
Yeah.
Holy listening.
So holy listening is a pra.
Is where you gather a numberof people.
Usually I think the.
The sweet spot is like five to nine.
And I will ask you to notthink about it, but just take some
quiet space and see what comesto mind.
(27:18):
In the last 24 hours, where doyou think you saw God?
Where did you feel God?
Or just something that isstuck with you and you can't shake
it?
And then we each share that story.
And this is where people thenwill give you feedback.
They don't give advice.
It's not about giving advice.
It's just about what thespirit might be talking through each
(27:40):
person in that group.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Yeah, it's more like what.
What they noticed or observedor came to them from the.
What the person shared.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
I love that.
So let me ask you this.
You shared, obviously, like,kind of how.
How you've worked withspiritual director.
You shared a little bit abouthow you work with people as spiritual
(28:01):
director.
What maybe just what would youjust share with people that may be
either spiritual direction,the concept of it's new to them,
or they haven't worked withsomeone before.
A spiritual director.
Because I'd say more than not,my audience probably falls there.
Right.
Where they're not working withsomebody now.
I don't mean They've maybenever had a conversation with a pastor
or their priest or whatever itmight be, but they might not be working
(28:23):
with somebody in that role.
I guess.
What would you just want toshare with us about that we haven't
already covered, like, thebenefit of it or like you said, how.
How does it.
I guess when or why mightsomeone decide to do that?
Right.
So somebody might decide to doit if they're making a big decision,
or somebody might decide to doit if they just feel dried up inside
(28:44):
or.
My relationship isn't goingair with God.
I don't feel God, I don'tsense God.
You know, most of my directeeshave come to me and they happen to
all be women who just fall inthat camp that I want more.
I want more in my relationshipwith God.
And look, it is three peoplein the room, the directee, myself
(29:05):
and the Holy Spirit.
And it is sort of a chemistry thing.
And what I always do is say,let's try it for three months.
We're going to be very honestwith each other.
You tell me if I'm beinghelpful to you.
And, you know, I'll also beobserving to think, to see if I think
this is a good fit.
So I would say it's really foranyone who wants to grow closer to
(29:26):
God and not in an academicway, not in getting to know who God
is by, you know, reading abouthim, but by experiencing him.
That was beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
I love that.
So, okay.
One of the things you and Iboth talk about, I think, or I don't
know in what context talkabout, but I know it's a subject
matter and of course it's inthe Bible, but is joy.
(29:48):
So let's tap into that for alittle bit.
So, you know, one of thethings I think is, you know, for
obviously joy is one of thefruits of the spirit or fruit of
the spirit.
But what would you just sharewith us about where can we find signs
of joy in the world and how dowe harness joy in our own lives from
a, you know, faith perspective?
Yeah.
And I think this is so muchthe goodness of God.
(30:10):
If we have our eyes and ourhearts open, the opportunities for
joy are everywhere.
Because if you think about it,what is joy a reflection of, but
a greater joy, which is his joy.
Right.
We're not talking abouthappiness and happy, which is an
emotion.
I honestly hate that word.
But the real true joy to me isa reflection, reflection of God.
And the more you're open andthe more you can train yourself to
(30:34):
not be judged or closed, whichI think is one of the hardest things
not to judge, but just, Imean, the easy, low hanging fruits
for me is always nature.
Like, I go out my door firstthing in the morning and I literally
just stand there to just hearand smell and see and like right
there, bang.
I've got some joy, you know,but people find joy in different
(30:58):
places.
I really find joy in all kindsof people.
I get a big kick out of peopleand I find joy in my passions.
I mean, I'm crazy about dance.
It's just who I am.
I'm crazy about this newimprov world.
So, you know, those aremoments of joy, but the real deep
joy, I like to try to keepexpanding and challenging myself.
(31:19):
What am I aware of?
What am I noticing?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it, it really doescome down to that is the more, the
better you get at noticing.
You know, letting yourself bein awe of God, his creation, his
creativity, how he made usalso unique and, you know, uniquely
made.
(31:39):
You know, it's just if we'repaying attention.
Yes.
Like you said, I'm.
I'm.
I'm just, I don't know,grateful in all the time.
And much like you, I.
1.
Nature is a big place for me.
But like you said, it's evenpeople just seeing people that are
so themselves like thatthey're the person walking down the
street and they don't carewhat anyone thinks.
(32:01):
They're dancing like all thosethings to me, like that just makes
me like smile so big.
Right?
Because I'm like, look at them.
Like they are embodying insome way.
Right.
So I don't know if this is abad habit or what, but I like to
have fun with people.
So, you know, I think like, ifyou just keep a little bit of your
silly self, right, you canhave a lot of fun in life.
(32:23):
But I want to go back to.
I feel like we're in thewizard of Oz and, you know, everything's
the yellow brick road leadingto one thing.
To be able to do what you'retalking about, noticing and being
aware.
We got to slow down.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, yeah, and I think that'sstill such a struggle for so many
people, you know, I mean, even.
Yeah.
(32:44):
Any people I know that are,you know, very into their faith.
Faith practices have arelationship with God.
They.
It's still a struggle, right?
It's still a struggle.
And it might go to that wholetopic of habits because, you know,
you get into a rhythm and youget into sort of a way of Responding
and it becomes a habit.
(33:05):
Something you don't thinkabout that becomes part of you.
And then you have to do thehard work of a. Recognizing it and
then walking it back.
That's right.
Well, yeah.
And it's.
It's habits.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But it's also thoughts.
I think a lot of us don'trealize we let the idea of hustle
take over what we're thinkingabout or what we think we have to
(33:27):
get done in a given day.
Your job's still going to bethere tomorrow and you're still going
to have all the things and thenext day the same.
Like.
Like at some point you have torealize what is a pace that's reasonable
to maintain.
And we weren't asked to do.
You know, I say all the time,we're not asked to do three days
worth of effort in one day yet.
That's what we're all or manyof us are trying to do.
(33:48):
You know, we're trying to cramin more than a day than God's ever
asked us to do.
Yeah.
And then we wonder why we'reexhausted and frenzied.
Yeah.
You know, I wish I had thisadvice that I now have, and it's
like the 5, 5, 5 rule.
When I was in my 20s and 30sand in corporate America, everything
to your point was it's got tobe done today.
I was in, you know, the worldof consciousness, consumer products
(34:10):
and everything was high intensity.
But along the way, once yourealize, does this matter in five
minutes?
Does this matter in five hours?
Does this matter in five days?
I think my response, I wouldhave been a very different person
versus that, a bit of an amped up.
Oh my gosh.
And maybe, you know, puttingfocus where it didn't even need to
(34:30):
be or maybe needed to stay inits right order.
Yeah.
Well, and I think that's.
Sadly, that is the culturethat most corporate jobs and many
other jobs are, are they'repushing that narrative.
Right.
And so they do make you feellike if you want to keep your job,
you want to keep yourpaycheck, then you have to keep up.
Right.
And so I get why we get.
We fall into that mindset orthat worry, but we have to realize
(34:56):
that we don't have to stay inthat construct.
Right.
We can actually pull ourselvesout of it.
Like, you still want to getthe job done, you still want to do
a good job, good works, but wedon't have to play that game.
Right.
We don't have to.
To live the way that you'reyou're feeling that you have to live.
But like you said, a lot ofthat has to do with habit and then
repeat thoughts like, I haveto, I have to, I have to.
(35:16):
Instead of like, what is mostimportant for me to get done today
and what can wait.
Exactly.
As the person decide.
Yeah.
Not our bosses priorities.
When I was so I was a productmanager at Clarol in New York City
and it was fast paced andrough and tumble and I was in new
products and I had a boss whoevery day was changing what new product
(35:38):
we were going to go after.
This was like honestly whenMoose was being invented.
I mean, we're talking 80s andso, you know, I didn't thrive very
well there.
In fact, I ended up onprobation because they thought I
couldn't take something to afinish line.
And the person who was then incharge of me said, look it, there's
a very easy answer.
(35:58):
Don't do everything that's inyour inbox.
Look at it and see what really matters.
And do you know what?
My Entire life changed?
3/4 of that inbox I ignoredand all of a sudden I was able to
focus on what matters.
Yes.
I mean, it's great.
It.
Wow.
Who knew?
Yeah.
So you were actuallypracticing discernment but in your
(36:19):
job.
And you were also having, youwere realizing you have some autonomy.
Like, yeah, you have to be thedecider at the end of the day.
Because I get it, like we havedeadlines in the world.
We have all these things.
But like you said, you'renever going to hit the deadline if
you do every single littlething right.
If everything's a fire, you'renever going to actually.
Right.
Yeah.
So that's, that's good.
(36:41):
There was something that yousaid that I wanted to bring up, but
I.
That that's passed.
So now.
So.
Okay, what else would you justwant to share with us to just encourage
the audience or, you know,just all the things you've walked
through, like what's justcoming to you that you feel like
we haven't covered yet thatyou would really like to just share
with us.
(37:01):
Yeah.
You know, one thing I wouldsay is just be yourself.
Be yourself and keep listeningto what's going on inside of you.
Don't, don't, don't try tofollow what you think you should
be doing.
Just follow your intuition.
Because if you're a prayerfulperson, which you are, you wouldn't
(37:24):
be listening to this podcast.
You're going to be.
You're already in the spirit.
And so just, just trust andgive yourself a break.
I think, you know, when I wasa younger mom and when I was juggling
career and mom and all that,I. I never thought I could do it
all because I pretty.
I learned pretty fast, youcan't do it all.
You just got to focus onwhoever's yelling the loudest.
(37:48):
You know, who hasn't had thatif you have multiple kids?
But, you know, just recognizethat you were.
You are human and just, youknow, you know, you know, just listen,
take your time, breathe.
I'm a big believer in breathing.
I mean, when my kids wereyoung, I would give myself a timeout
(38:09):
if I needed it, just torecalibrate, just to have a moment,
you know, just to say, help me.
Absolutely.
Oh, yeah.
I've definitely had to walkout of the room before.
Quite the same, you know,like, we're like, okay, it's getting
to be too much with a cryingbaby screaming.
You know, I'm like, okay, Ineed to just put the baby in the
crib and just take a breathfor a minute.
(38:30):
Right.
And, like, reset myself.
Right.
So I can do more of that.
So, yeah, I think.
I think I know what I wasgoing to mention.
And it was.
We both kind of alluded to thefact that we should be ourselves
and that each of us and Idefinitely talk about this very regularly,
but each of us has theseunique interests and passion and
gifts.
And I think sometimesChristian women feel that they're
(38:52):
being selfish for pursuingthese things or.
And that's one of the things Italk about all the time, is reigniting
your passion.
Right.
Which has to do with yourpurpose or at least maybe in this
season.
But what would you share withus about that?
Because this is somethingwhere I continue to have women raise
their hand and say, like, Ifeel like the spark isn't there.
I feel like I'm on autopilot.
I don't.
I don't feel like I can givemyself time to do things that bring
(39:16):
me joy.
But God designed us that way,is how I see it.
Like, he uniquely made you tohave interest.
Like, not all my friends likereading Christian authors since I
was going.
Taking religion classes in college.
Right.
Like, I. I like things that alot of my friends don't like.
Right.
Like, we were all made uniquely.
And so I'm just curious whatyou would choose.
And, you know, I have a couplethoughts on this.
(39:40):
First of all, listen, unlesswe were made to be monks, where,
you know, our whole job issupposed to be silence and prayer,
we weren't made to be just praying.
In a room by ourselves all day.
We're made to be in the world.
And as you said, we were made uniquely.
And wouldn't it be sad, Ithink, for myself, if God gave me
this gift of dance and I neverused it?
(40:02):
So I don't use it because Iwant to be noticed by people.
I mean, yes, I like winning anevent, but honestly, I like the challenge
and the closeness in therelationship of the dance partner,
the dance studio, fellowcompetitors, what I can bring to
others, I think it's fine aslong as you're not doing it for your
(40:24):
own glory.
If you're chasing a passionbecause you want to be noticed and
you want, you know, the act,all the accolades, then, honey, I
think you've picked the wrong thing.
But if you have a gift or ifyou have an interest, God wants you
to be in the world.
He wants you to share your gift.
He wants you to be.
To make others, you know,happy and enjoy and be part of the
(40:45):
experience with you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think too often, you know,because women tend to be the caregivers,
because we tend to put otherpeople's needs first, right.
As moms, as maybe caregiversof someone older parent, maybe of
our spouses, whatever it mightbe, right.
A lot of us are more oftenvolunteers and more things.
(41:07):
But I think because of that,which are all beautiful and wonderful
things and I think how wewere, most of us were made, but it
can allow us to kind ofignore, right, some parts of ourselves.
And I think the risk of that,though, is that God has so much more
for us, but we have to bewilling to say yes to the things
(41:28):
that he has designed us totruly have interest in.
Right.
Like some people love thingsthat have to do with, like, people
passing and like, caring forthem in that work.
Like, like their interestsaren't just, like you said, they're
not selfish interests, they'reinterest because it's unique to you
or how the intersection meetsof those things.
So.
And, you know, you just mademe think about something.
(41:48):
I mean, it's the old glass.
If you keep pouring out andyou're not filling yourself with
anything, you are not going tobe coming with joy.
Talk about joy.
I mean, I honestly, my dancebrings me so much joy and fills me
up that I have an aging, youknow, mom that I'm involved with.
(42:09):
I'm trying to be a good grandparent.
I can, I've got a team in workI can give because I've been filled
up in a.
In a way that's creative andand just, you know, brings.
Brings me everything good.
So then I could turn aroundand pour it back out.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It's so true.
I mean, right?
And that's why we go back tobe renewed and refreshed every day.
(42:29):
Right.
In Christ or in God.
So absolutely.
Okay, so last question.
What is filling you up orfueling you these days?
What is one or two things thatjust are, you know, exciting you
or just keeping you?
Obviously, dance is one ofthem in your faith.
So what else would you share?
Yeah, so I've had this seasonof a lot of injuries, and my husband
(42:51):
had Lyme disease in the winter.
So I am really appreciatingthe moment that nobody's sick, nothing's
broken, nothing needs torehab, you know, where you're spending
all this time.
So one is just being healthy,and I'm really just so grateful for
that.
And then the other thing is,we have a new grandbaby, and that
(43:13):
veil is so thin between.
You know, I forget when you'rea parent yourself, you know, you're
just not.
You're so invested in doingthe right thing and you're tired
and all that.
But as a grandparent, you justsee the closeness between the baby
and God, and there's so manygifts to be enjoyed there that I'm
(43:35):
really enjoying the baby himself.
But I'm also enjoying seeingGod through this little tiny individual.
It's so easy to see hisabsolute, pure love that way.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Okay, so, Robin, tell us, howcan people learn more about your
spiritual, you know, you as aspiritual director and your ministry
(43:56):
and all that.
Right.
So I have a very simplewebsite in-sacred-space.com where
you can learn about thedifferent practices.
And if someone's interestedin, you know, pursuing one of these
or wants to learn more or Ican be helpful in directing them.
Probably easiest is just toemail me@r cancellicloud.com I think
(44:19):
that's probably easiest.
Okay, great.
Wonderful.
Well, thank you for taking thetime to join us today to share so
much information aboutspiritual direction and about these
different beautiful faithpractices and just sharing your heart
with us about the joy andgoing through different seasons.
Thank you for your podcast.
There's nothing more importantin life.
(44:40):
It's great to have theseconversations, and I really liked
being here.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
As we wrap up today, I justwanted to share a couple ideas with
you that I think really relateto the conversation that Robin and
I had today.
The first is in the book Chasethe Lion by Pastor or Dr. Mark Batterson.
(45:00):
He says there areopportunities all around you all
the time.
Opportunities to showkindness, opportunities show courage.
And just like the photographerwho's ready to click and capture
the moment, you have to beready to seize the opportunity.
And obviously in ourconversation today, Robin and I talked
about we have to be present inour lives, not rushing from one thing
to the next.
We have to allow the space inbetween so that we are present in
(45:24):
those moments and we arepaying attention and listening to
that small voice that Godmight be prompting us to be a part
of something.
And I want to share an ideawith you from the book At Home in
this Life by Jerusalem Jackson Greer.
She's basically explainingthat she had also gone through a
season of waiting.
(45:44):
She was basically on the couchfor months, her foot in a boot.
And in other words, she wasn'table to do what she usually does.
And she said she was readingJeremiah I think 29 and she says
a suspicion that had begunwith reading St. Benedict kind of
hit her.
And it says balance isn't amatter of getting what we think will
(46:04):
make us happy.
It is about cultivating agrateful and present heart right
where we are.
And then she shares a couplequestions that I think we could all
benefit from asking ourselves.
She says, what if instead ofseeking balance, I seek rootedness?
Can I find a way to live aslower version of modern life?
She says, is it possible toslow down internally right where
(46:25):
I am without changing myexternal circumstances, job, school,
home, responsibilities.
And I thought that's abeautiful question.
Then she also another questionshe asks is, can we grow deep spiritual
roots producing fruit in ourday to day lives?
And then in her book she alsoshares 1 Corinthians 7:17.
(46:47):
So I want to share twoversions of that with you.
One is from the newinternational version of the Bible.
It's nevertheless,nevertheless, each person should
live as a believer in whateversituation the Lord has assigned to
them, just as God has called them.
This is the rule I lay down inall the churches.
In her book she shares theversion from the message which says,
(47:10):
and don't be wishing weresomeplace else or with someone else.
Where you are right now isGod's place for you.
Live and obey and love andbelieve right there.
And I thought these werebeautiful to share.
When we talked about beingpresent and we talked about deepening
our spiritual practices.
Having a grateful and openedheart allows us to deepen our relationship,
(47:31):
our the experience that wehave with God in our lives.
And so I just wanted to sharethose things with you.
But once Again, I do hope thatyou can take something out of this
episode and if there'sanything that you want to that hit
you or struck you, I'd love tohear from you.
You can email me from mywebsite, you can DM me on Instagram.
(47:51):
Also, I did want to let youknow, if you haven't already joined
my email weekly emailnewsletter, head over to KristinFitch.com
and join our community.
I usually send a weekly emailjust to encourage you, to uplift
you and to help you deepenyour relationships, your faith, to
change your perspective andjust to step into more of what God
(48:12):
has for you.
Also, if you're somebody thatis looking to make a change, want
to make a shift in your lifeor you just feel stuck in a season
or a part of your life, youcan definitely check out Robin's
Spiritual Direction Offering.
And then I also do coachingmentor sessions.
All of the information is onmy website, but I would love to connect
with you, talk to you and seeif doing a session is the right fit
(48:36):
for you.
But I love helping women walkthrough the season they're in and
to see what's on the horizonfor them.
So if you're looking forsomebody to come alongside of you,
definitely reach out and checkout the information.
Thanks again for listening tothe show and if you enjoyed today's
episode, we would love it ifyou could take a minute to leave
a rating and and review onApple Podcast because it helps our
(48:57):
show get discovered by more people.
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