July 14, 2025 • 34 mins
Tune in as Jen Corkran, Senior Animal Protein Analyst at Rabobank, shares her expertise on converting grass into protein and explores current market trends in New Zealand’s primary sector.
The conversation begins inside the farm gate, drawing on Jen’s 12 years of experience in agronomy and farm systems. Jen unpacks the fundamentals of pasture management and insights into modern pasture varieties. Top-performing operators, she notes, consistently prioritise what grows underfoot, regardless of season or soil type.
The discussion then shifts beyond the farm gate to Jen’s current role at RaboResearch, where she forecasts commodity trends, interprets global supply and demand, and translates these insights for farmers. With protein demand rising and global supply constrained, the outlook is promising. This episode reinforces the global advantage of New Zealand’s grass-based, homegrown feed systems. Despite challenges like weather variability and rising costs, Jen highlights the opportunity in our ability to efficiently convert local feed into premium products valued by increasingly discerning consumers.*
*Recorded late May 2025.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products, and much,much more.
Welcome along to this episodeof Feed for Thought.
As usual, I've got Matt Dalywith me, so welcome along, matt.
Great to have you with us, andfor this episode we've got Jen.
Corcoran, so great to have youwith us too, matt.
Great to have you with us, andfor this episode we've got Jen
(00:25):
Corcoran, so great to have youwith us too, jen.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Great to be here.
It feels like we're catching up, so it's a nice, efficient use
of our time, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, we've, I guess, all known one another for a
long time.
The industry, the primarysector, is small.
We'll get on to what you'redoing now a little bit later in
this episode.
But, uh, for our listeners, uh,you know we we're in hamilton
at the moment and you're, I'mgonna say, new office here at
rabu bank, is it relatively new?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I think they've been in here.
I could be wrong here.
I think it's around three orfour years now, so pretty new,
yeah, and um great agriculturaltheme around the place, which we
all love, yeah we saw some,some soil we'll give it the
right terminology and the pillaron the way in Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
wool carpet, I see.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Wool carpet.
Yeah, great setup.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
It's a pretty cool spot.
So, look, we're going to getinto, obviously, your role with
Rabobank, but we always like tokind of get a feel for you know
who's Jen Corcoran, where haveyou come from, and get a little
bit of that story out first andthen, you know, touch on some of
the roles that you've had inthe industry, but give us the
back story Jen Corcoran, wherehave you come from to where you
(01:30):
are today?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thanks, wade.
Well, so I grew up in CentralHawke's Bay, so Waipakaro and
yeah, from a really ruralupbringing, though my parents
weren't actually farmers but wehad a lifestyle block so you
know 50 sheep farmers but we hada lifestyle block, so you know
50 sheep.
So I love lambing time.
I found my little lambing bookthe other day.
I used to write down how manylike lambs each sheep had anyway
and rearing calves and stuff.
So that was fun.
So I always wanted to get intothe ag industry.
(01:53):
Studied at massey uh, wentfarming straight out of my
undergrad for a couple of yearson a big beef farm down in mid
canterbury before the dairy,just before the dairy boom, and
then went back and studiedfurther in pastoral science.
So I got really interested inthat side of things.
Basically understanding how toturn grass into meat was my sort
of initial passion point and soI wanted to study that a little
(02:15):
bit further.
After that I lived in the UKfor a few years and then I came
back to New Zealand and got ajob with Barenburg, formerly
AgSeeds in a farm systemspastoral role.
By the time I left there I waswith them for just under 12
years.
So really good times and thenvery recently moved or the last
(02:35):
couple of years I moved intoRabobank.
So we'll talk a little bitabout my role at Rabo later in
the podcast, I'm sure.
But, yeah, pretty passionateabout homegrown feed and turning
grass and homegrown feed maizecrops into whatever protein it
is.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, there we go, nice, and that's one of the
reasons I suppose we wanted toget back in touch with you.
It's been a while for a coupleof us, but can you reflect on
what it was like 12 years agowhen you started at Barenbroke
and how it changed, or systemschanged, over that decade?
I suppose.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, it's a really interesting thing to reflect on.
I think In my experience ofpastoral farming in New Zealand,
we've been historically verygood at feeding animals on a
largely homegrown feed base, sothat's grass and then whatever
crops, depending on your region,suits you for summer or winter
and when you need to plug thatgap.
(03:31):
And I think you know the thingthat's been challenging is
stocking rates have increasedbroadly across, you know, all
sectors and therefore theability to harvest that feed can
be more challenging, dependingon soil types, depending on how
much feed you might want tobring in.
Bringing in more feed can be agreat band-aid, but what's that
(03:53):
doing to your pasture?
quality if you're notnecessarily focusing on that the
most.
So the thing I noticed the mostwas probably really the best
operators were understandingalways that we need to look
after a quality of what's goingon on the home ground, on the
soil, in terms of what we'regrowing, and the challenge came
in, you know, depending on theseasons, as it always does.
(04:15):
But those who prioritise thatpasture management and crop
management and being really goodstewards of what they're up to
were the ones that seemed tohave the best results.
But then in farming there's justso much that we can't control
outside that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Do you think the uncontrolled part has become
more challenging and by that weoften talk about weather, talk
about extremes, the variability?
We'll get on to productivitygains a little bit later.
But do you think it's morechallenging now than it was even
a decade ago?
And you probably can reflecteven further back to a couple of
(04:52):
decades ago?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I think I honestly do believe there's more
potential challenge because ofthe fact that stocking rates
have increased so we've actuallygot more animals on the land
overall have increased, so we'veactually got more animals on
the land overall, and also,essentially, that there is
seeming to be a trend of moreextreme potential weather
patterns coming through atcertain times and in certain
areas, and also there's a lot ofpockets that are reasonably
(05:17):
great for wintering but then canbe much more challenging in the
summertime, and so thoselighter soil types, those
pumices, those really lightsilts.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
The gravels that were on the wall.
Yeah, the gravels.
What?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
about Bunnythorpe.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
The beautiful heavy clay.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That's just picked up a farmer Bunnythorpe.
How does that go In yourexperience?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I feel like you're just really sad that Bunnythorpe
isn't represented on the rubberband wall.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So I'll take that one up with the leadership team?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
That'd be great.
Thanks, yes, but no, we've gotand that's the thing about New
Zealand right, We've got thisamazing temperate country, but
we've got vastly different soiltypes.
We've got vastly differentclimatic conditions from the top
of the north to the bottom ofthe south and everywhere in
between, including Barneythorpe.
So you know, there's no onesize fits all, but I think some
(06:06):
of the challenges that we getrequire us to be providing
farmers and those looking afterthe land with information that's
really relevant to where theyare.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And there's no like.
Do this and you'll succeed.
It's where are you farming?
What's your stocking rate?
What do you want to do?
What do you want to grow?
What crops are you going to use?
And then, let's go forth.
So I think there's more andmore requirement for information
that's really relevant to whatpeople are doing.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And I think did that come through in your role with
Barenburg too, because youstarted out kind of with correct
me if I'm wrong in a very muchagronomist kind of and did that
evolve into farm systems,Because I guess that's where
we've crossed paths a lot inyour time in Barenburg.
It's in that farm system space.
So did it evolve and what wasthe driver behind that?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, that's right, wade.
So basically I started off verymuch in that research and
development place and, as you'llknow, any sort of pastoral
support industry in New Zealandthere's a lot of R&D that goes
on.
Pioneer's really wonderful atthis as well and my role in the
start you know, the first five,six years was doing a lot of
research in terms of plantbreeding and later stage trials
(07:13):
for grass, plant varieties,clover and other crops as well,
and within that you have trialsall over New Zealand, as I said,
on all different soil types,different pockets of the
countryside, and I was verylucky to be able to travel
extensively throughout NewZealand, north and south, and I
was based in both islands atdifferent periods of my time.
And that's where you learnright all of these things.
(07:36):
You know, this grass writerthat's doing amazing in
Canterbury isn't there after sixmonths in Northland, or on the
light pumice in the centralplateau or whatever it might be,
you know.
So it's very much genetics byenvironment and then by
management as well.
So it's very nuanced.
And then obviously theunderstanding of all of that
stuff and all of the things thatwent wrong allows a lot of
(07:57):
learning.
And then the space thatinterested me the most was farm
systems, because it just itseemed to me like a place where
you'd always be learning,because no farm is necessarily
the same as another, and thenwhat the person who is looking
after that farm wants to achieveis also not always the same so
there's so much that can be doneand learned from that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, exciting space.
So I want to sort of step backa little bit into the plant
breeding, and I'm sure listenersare going to uh, they'd kill me
if I didn't ask.
But you know, there seems to bethe sense in the industry that
that pasture productivity haskind of been relatively flat.
Um, you know, so we've done alot of plant breeding, going
back to your earlier role, andare we just being more
(08:38):
challenged by environment?
You know you talked about, uh,genetics by environment.
Are we being more challenged byenvironment at a faster rate
than what we're seeing ingenetic improvement?
Or how do you see all that?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
playing out.
It's a really interesting thingto discuss, you know, and I
find it fascinating because it'salways asked this question's
always asked by farmers and alsoacross industry at conferences
and stuff.
Right, because so much time andmoney goes into plant breeding
and we have made in pastoralespecially in my background huge
advances in terms of potentialversus the old cultivars that
(09:12):
were, say, 20, 25, 30 more yearsago, once you put them on a
farm and who knows what wentinto that paddock before the new
grass.
But if they're growing 20% morethan the old variety, that's
potentially easier to manage.
We've got so much more at stake.
Right, we've got a grass that'sgrowing potentially in spring,
(09:34):
20% more.
So we need either 20% moremouths to feed it or we need to
be getting into that paddock 20%sooner.
So there's a lot more that cango wrong.
The more grazing days that youhave in a paddock 20% sooner.
So there's a lot more that cango wrong, the more grazing days
that you have in a paddock.
So therefore, if something doesgo wrong and we know especially
in that first two years of thepasture's life you can see how
(09:54):
it can be more challenging.
The other thing that we don'ttalk about enough is also
probably around soil structure,in terms of how we're getting
those, these grasses and crops,in to begin with and what that
might mean for the futureproductivity or persistence of
that paddock.
But of course also fertilizer.
So if it's growing that muchmore does it need a little bit
(10:14):
more.
Potentially, of course, nitrogen, that one's relatively easy,
but what else does it need moreof?
That's going to help it have agood root system and survive
longer.
But the big one for me isprobably a new grass is going to
need to be treated like a newgrass for that first 12 months,
and what I saw most throughoutmy career with barrenbrug is
that usually after the first twoor three grazings, after that
nip off, graze the paddock's inthe round, and it's a newish
(10:37):
grass paddock can't remember ifwe did that one last year or the
year before, and that's okaybut, that's where you the roles,
like what I was doing and whatyou might be talking to on farm
is that education piece andrelevance piece like how can we?
do better, Because thesepastures do have the potential
to do better, but what's thepoint if we're not actually
getting that management side?
So my role actually evolvedinto that entire piece at
(10:58):
Barenburg which was hey, we wantpeople to be able to get the
best out of this, because we'vespent all this time breeding it
and it's money breeding it.
Let's have some good comms onhow we do that.
And that's where you start tolearn what might be going wrong.
On farm.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
For some of those guys that picked that up and saw
that, what would be some of thetips that you'd be able to
throw back to those?
You say it's management in somedegree.
What's something that you couldthrow back at people if they're
saying this is all this.
You know your new geneticsaren't performing.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah, the best I find .
I used to find those visits themost fun because you can ask so
many questions around beforeyou even get into, like what
we're going to do to fix this,just understanding what's
happened.
And inevitably a power heromight have been involved before
the grass goes in, so that's notthe farmer's fault.
You know that this grass ispulling out in its first summer.
(11:50):
If the soil structure's youknow, not there On a student
soil type, they can't handlethat.
Maybe your bunnythorpe soilscan, but these other ones.
You know what I mean.
So it does depend.
And then the other one isobviously for me undergrazing of
pastures is a far worse evilthan overgrazing.
(12:11):
Potentially Overgrazing willcause a slowdown in recovery
after summer, for example ifit's been dry and you nip off
that first green tinge.
But undergrazing in spring justmeans you don't get daughter
tiller survival, so you don'tget thickening up of pasture and
that's you know, the whole game.
In my opinion after my years wasyou do spring pasture
management well and you'll havea persistent pasture through the
(12:32):
summer and through summerrecovery and into autumn.
And this is where farm systemscome in, because taking out
paddocks at the right time formaize or whatever it is,
dropping them into silage,cutting them when they're not
too long, these sorts of thingsall really help.
So there's so much educationthere and I feel like it's
actually the fault of industryin my opinion.
(12:52):
It's very much in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Easy to say now You've got to bang your shirt on
.
Yeah, that's true.
Now I'm working in research forRoving.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
This is why it's great to talk to you now about
previous roles, but no, I'vesaid that very publicly before
too, and I think a lot of peoplewould agree.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
but you know it's up to us to help and that's why we
exist in jobs in the primaryindustry to help our farmers
best turn homegrown feed intoprotein.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So with that, you know, thinking about the spring
in particular you know, likehigher stocking rates, we've
gone through a phase ofincreasing stocking rates.
We've gone through a phase ofincreasing stocking rates.
Probably in the last few yearswe've probably gone slightly the
other way.
We're expecting more productionper animal, whether that's beef
or dairy.
That makes it kind of morechallenging.
We've got more feeds coming inPutting your farm systems head
(13:38):
on.
Now how do you get that outcome?
You know farmers use tools likemowing and they've pre-mowing
or post or um.
You know they use physicalstocking rate.
When the industry sort of seemsto be heading down down that
pathway, how do you balance thatout and achieve those kind of
grazing outcomes?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
and I think in a dairy situation, you know we've
got a reasonable understandingof what our demand is day to day
and week to week, and what thatproduction will look like if we
can, if we can meet that demandand with that, I think look
like if we can meet that demandand with that.
I think that's where your dataand your measuring really comes
to play.
So, if you are understandinghow much pasture you've got,
what your demand is, what youwant to feed your animals and
(14:17):
then what that's going to alsolook like in two or three or
four weeks' time, that foresightallows you the ability to jump
in and say right, we were goingto spray out our maize paddocks
on X date.
We're going to have a surplusbefore that.
Do we also want to take out asilage paddock at the same day?
We'll reduce our total you knowgrazeable area to this, which
(14:37):
means our stocking rate willjump to this and then perhaps
we're away.
Then you know we get a cold snapand things change and that's
what happens.
However, then you know you'vegot your may silage or your
pasture silage, or you can slowthat round down a little bit and
start to build.
So I think it is aboutmeasuring and try to foresee
into the future, which is what Ido day to day in my job now a
different thing that I'm tryingto foresee in the future, but if
(15:00):
we can be understanding as muchas we can about the farm that
we're on and what we think thenext two or three or four weeks
is going to look like.
That allows us to makedecisions early, and I think
making decisions at the righttime is beneficial and we won't
always get it right, but it doesallow.
Knowledge is power.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I'm going to pick up on.
It's something I'm going to say.
You wrote, maybe about 2020,sometime around, and it was
about annual pasture productionand the variation and how
significant that can be.
And we often talk about itsaying, oh you know, it can be
as much as three or four tonnesa hectare between a good and a
(15:37):
bad year.
We obviously think we're prettywell placed, from a maize
company, to support that kind ofthat perfect partner story,
perfect partner to pasture, andwe think that works quite well.
You know what's your view onjust trying to.
You know that's essentiallyfeeding one cow a hectare, that
variation Like.
Again from a farm systems pointof view, how do you see the
best way around kind ofnavigating that, that
(15:59):
differential?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
yeah, that's a good point.
And you know, in a wet yearlike this, the year being, the
spring being in southland, youknow, really challenging for
everyone down there if you havea rain event overnight, for
example and this is, you knowexactly what you're saying right
, you've just put animals in at,say, 2600 and then it rains.
They're going to eat like 200kilos of that and the rest is
(16:23):
going to be in the mud.
So almost there goes thatamount of grass and the recovery
of that paddock is not greatbecause you didn't get to hit
the nice residual that youwanted.
So these sorts of things happenon farm and big time.
So I think it's a trickyquestion to answer.
But broadly, if we can try todo the best, if we can try to do
the best 80 that we can 80 ofthe time then we're going to do
(16:43):
really well most of the time andwe're not going to be able to
control those situations thathappen and this is where you
need supplements.
So we don't want to be farming100 on grass only if we want to
have flexibility to continue tofeed our animals well when
things go wrong.
But the other thing that canhappen, you know, under grazing
a pasture, not hitting residualall year long will also reduce
(17:03):
the total feed growing.
Nipping off too early after therain in autumn, if it hasn't
rained, will reduce the amountyou're going to grow over the
next two months.
That'll do the same thing.
So understanding just thosefundamentals around the way the
pasture wants to be treated, forme anyway, is the best way to
always ensure you're going toget the most of the potential
for that year.
And the potential might be backbased off sunshine hours or
(17:26):
moisture or whatever's going on.
But if you can be at the topend of your district in terms of
what that potential is, andthis year it might be 16 tonne,
last year it might have been 18tonne, but whatever it is you're
going to comparatively, doYou're trying to cover sort of
80% of the variability, not thewhole?
lot.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, that's right your system would be a wild ride
if you're trying to cover allof the variability.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Oh, I know, and that's the thing, right, we're
farming in New Zealand in theelements.
That sounds so dramatic, yeah,but you know, we don't
necessarily, and some people dohave big barns and other ways
that we can get animals off inthe rain or sun or whatever it
might be.
So we need to think carefullyabout what farm system we want,
what winter crops, what summercrops, what maize, how much
(18:10):
maize we want to be growing, sowe can basically then do 80 plus
percent better with the pasturethat we grow.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, jen, you were fizzed about this conversation.
How did you make the jump towhere you are now?
Wade will pull me back to thisconversation because we love the
farm systems chat, but you knowyou swapped the gumboots for
some shiny RMs now to walkaround town or no.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I don't think they're RMs.
I don't actually own RMs.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I was going to say high heels but, that wasn't
Quite similar.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
They look a little bit like RMs they're leather.
We could get Bianca to take aphoto of them and maybe Well.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I'm not sure that they show in any photos.
Yeah, enough after this podcast.
No, it's a great question and Ithink a lot of people were
pretty confused and shocked whenI came into this role?
Yeah, because fundamentally alsodidn't probably understand what
I was off to do but maybedidn't know.
So I am really interested inwhat's going on within the farm
(19:09):
gate in grass and pasture andhomegrown feed.
It's like what really gets mefizzed, to use your word, and
100% like I was very passionateabout it.
I did Kellogg a couple of yearsago just over two years, three
years ago now and I got reallyintrigued by what happens
post-Farmgate throughout thatcourse.
So it's six months of time.
But I realised, you know, I'vebeen very focused on
(19:32):
grass-feeding animals, farmsystems and I still love that so
much.
But I thought, oh, there's awhole other world that exists
once our products that we'reproducing on farm leave the farm
gate.
So what farmers are essentiallydoing is doing all that stuff
that I was talking about day today, but what they're getting
paid for is what's happeningonce the milk or the meat or the
wool or whatever it is leavesthe farm and goes off to an
(19:54):
export market.
So I thought, well, this isfascinating.
I knew about the rubberresearch team, which is where I
sit now within Rubber Bank, andhave always been really
interested in what they do.
So my day-to-day job now is isthe animal protein analyst for
New Zealand, so red meat mainly,and the job of our team.
So Rubber Bank has investedheavily in a research team.
(20:15):
So I am not a banker.
That's probably the biggest one, and I think people started to
get confused.
I used to go banking, no no, I'mnot a banker.
I'm very much still in research, so the closest analogy to what
I used to do is probably insidethe farm gate and now very much
outside of it and communicatingthose messages.
So understanding completely whatthe commodity trends, what the
markets are doing for red meat,animal protein in New Zealand
(20:42):
and the bank has investedheavily across the globe in this
research team, rabo Research.
So there's 90 analysts globallyand our day-to-day
responsibility is to deeplyunderstand our commodity sector.
So for me, animal protein,we've got Emma who also does
dairy for New Zealand and withinthat, understand everything
from, know everything fromsupply, demand, what that means
for commodity prices, whatglobal trends or consumer you
(21:05):
know demand and confidence isdoing and what that might mean
for what prices we're going toget for that.
So that's what we do Basically.
The team globally is taskedwith understanding everything
for each sector.
So covering paddock to plate.
So we've got analysts that dodairy sheep and beef, all of the
different types of proteins,anything in deer Grains and all
(21:27):
sorts Anything in deer.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Just out of curiosity , I'm technically tasked with
deer.
Matt's a passionate deerfarming man.
There we go.
We have a good yarn.
Okay, we can get the yarn after.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, so that's what we do and how we fit into the
bank is essentially to supportthe bank internally in terms of
risk.
It's going to happen with prices, it's going to happen with land
values, all this sort of thing.
We're going to be supportingclients, so all the farmers and
understanding what we think.
The next you know this is thatforesight stuff.
You know what we think the nextweeks or months or year might
(21:57):
look like.
And then, of course, wider inthe industry, around thought
leadership, talking to the media, sharing all of the information
so that people can make thebest decisions based on the
information at hand.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I guess how far out is the global insights piece?
How far are you looking out interms of the signals and the
trends and kind of feeding thatback?
You write a prettycomprehensive report on a
regular basis.
Now, how far out are youlooking?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, so we report in New Zealand and Australia.
We cover both here across amonthly report, but then we'll
do an outlook at the start ofeach year to try to give our
best lens of what we think thenext 12 months is going to look
like broadly.
So of course, this year is aninteresting one globally and, um
, honestly, you get whiplashbecause you wake up each morning
and see what on earth hashappened overnight when we look
(22:47):
around the globe at the moment.
So it's really challenging timeto have that insight.
But there's a there's a fewthings when it comes to food,
right, consumer confidence isimportant.
How much money have people gotto spend on perhaps more premium
proteins such as red meat anddairy?
And if we're an exportingnation, you know 95 plus percent
of everything that we'reproducing here in terms of milk
(23:08):
and meat is getting exported, sowe need to understand where
we're sending that.
How much money have the peoplegot to spend in these markets
and what does the global supplyof all these things also look
like in terms of our competition?
Also, how much have we got inNew Zealand?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
in terms of our own procurement, supply and
competition.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So we're looking out as far as we can, which is not
answering your question at all,but we're trying to foresee what
we think the next six and 12months might look like and you
can generally have a reasonableunderstanding in terms of the
livestock side of things.
And you can generally have areasonable understanding in
terms of the livestock side ofthings In terms of supply.
Demand is trickier to gauge attimes and some things you just
(23:45):
don't see coming.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I guess, geopolitical .
At the moment it seems sounstable, uncertain, to your
point.
It feels like you wake up oneday it could be completely
different to the previous day.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, it's pretty crazy out there at the moment,
different to the previous day.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy outthere at the moment and yeah,
that's certainly providing a lotof time and reading and
understanding, but also justwatching back as well and just
seeing what we think mighthappen.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Righto, what does the next?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
six months look like then.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I knew that down it's recorded.
We want to capture this it'spretty good isn't it?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Well, we're late, may now, aren't we?
So, yeah, things are looking.
It's a really interesting time.
So let's speak really bigpicture here, within animal
protein and dairy also.
Anyway, we've got the samefundamentals.
So supply globally is not ashigh as it's been in the past,
but demand is very muchimproving versus the last two,
(24:41):
three years.
So if you just look at thebasic fundamentals of that, we
haven't got as much, but peopleare actually willing to pay a
little bit more for it.
So we're seeing this reallydecent rise in commodity prices
across dairy and across red meat, and pleasingly across red meat
, because 18 months or a yearago, even for sheep meat, we
were at sort of six, seven-yearlows in terms of, you know, that
(25:04):
average per kilo price, farmgate price for lamb, and now
we're sitting at a seasonalrecord high, not the highest
ever, but for this time of theyear, the highest ever in terms
of price.
Now, some of that's driven bynot enough sheep, for example,
in New Zealand right now, orlambs in New Zealand right now,
but also, you know, we've got abit of improved demand globally,
which is really important, andfewer animals globally.
(25:28):
So, yeah, so it's a good newsstory in terms of those farm
gate prices and we think, forthe next six months at least,
and into, you know, the next 12months, pricing's looking to be,
you know, well above five-yearaverages across the board.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, it's a lot better than when you first came
in.
Then, like you know being ableto, you talked about
communicating those messages.
How have you found that kind ofchanged?
I mean it's a lot easier.
I shouldn't say easier now, butit's more comfortable.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
So when I started in this role, the sheet meat price
was doing a nosedive south and Iwas entering a role and it was
challenging and I was very newto the industry, to the red meat
industry as well, Reasonablywell-known in past or in New
Zealand, but like an unknownperson basically in this
industry.
So it was challenging.
(26:16):
But it was so challenging thatit really taught me quickly what
to say and what not to say.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
The Kelloggs would have been quite handy for some
of that.
Yes, exactly Some of thelearnings.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah.
So no, it was a tough start,but for me it was recognising
how tough it was for those outthere across the industry,
across the farming clients andfarming people in New Zealand
and the red sheep and beef space, and also you know the
processing industry as well,because demand just wasn't there
and pricing was really low.
(26:45):
So it was hard, but no, it'svery much and it also just
really shows how quickly thingscan turn around in change.
But it also speaks to the factthat what was a good price five
years ago is a medium-ish pricenow, because costs have gone up.
Yeah, across the board.
(27:05):
You know it's embeddedinflation.
So what did we get up to 18%inflation, or 17% or 18%
inflation across New Zealandfarms about three years ago.
It didn't go down 20% thefollowing year.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It's still up there, right, and so what used to be X
price needs to be now X plusthis price.
So I think what we're seeingnow is a shift to what is more
required for profitability.
In New Zealand, and because weare so reliant on our homegrown
feed farm systems, we are lowcost, but we also still have a
lot of costs that can be veryvariable and very much higher
(27:38):
than they used to be.
So I think it's getting better,but it needs to be Pricing's
getting to where it needs to be.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the sentiment very much
that we pick up across dairy inparticular.
I'm sure it's the same for redmeat.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah.
So yeah, tough start and thingsare better now, but every day
is a learning curve, so it'sgood too.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I just want to sort of pick up on one or two things
just before we wrap.
One of the things we comeacross a lot in the dairy sector
in particular is the customerand this kind of feeling of
reaching inside the farm gate.
How does that compare to?
And when I say that you know interms of some of the
environmental emissions and whatgoes into the product, and I
(28:18):
guess for red it's very muchabout the quality of the product
how much of a reach is therefrom global customers buying our
product inside the farm gatefor the red meat sector?
Is there much of that or notreally?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yes, where does it stop?
That's a really good question,wade, because it's something
we're probably talking aboutquite a lot in previous years,
the last couple of years it'sgone a little bit more quiet at
the moment.
However, fundamentally and youknow, we sit in a global team so
we hear from people in Europeand across other parts of the
(28:51):
world and there's very much arequirement by customers so
those buying the product fortheir consumers to understand
where food came from, how it wasproduced and what that involved
.
And that can include some ofthese metrics around um
sustainability and emissions,and it can also include you know
(29:14):
what the animal ate or you knowwhat the quality of the meat is
, all of these other things.
This thing, this sort of stuff'snot going to go away, and
there's also, you know, a cohortof consumers who are very
interested in understandingwhat's going on inside the farm
gate as well.
So we've got a great story totell and not to go into the
let's tell the New Zealand storyconversation.
But if you think about whatwe're doing here, we are very
(29:36):
naturally producing protein fromhomegrown feed sources and it's
a great story and it's anatural story and we've got um a
lot of good stuff going on, andI think the best thing that we
can all do right now is togather as much information as we
can about what we're doing,record it so that, if we need to
prove it in the future, we'realready doing a lot of good
(29:57):
stuff and there'll be sometweaks that can be made, but I
think you know consumers and andregardless of what a consumer's
doing, if your customer who'spurchasing and exporting from
you importing from you, sorryrequires this of you, you
probably have to sort of sortout that paperwork or whatever
it is, to make sure that itticks the box.
So I think it's not gone awayand.
(30:18):
I think it's only going toperhaps increase in the future,
and you can see that in someother countries now, and the
best example New Zealand canoften use to understand some of
the stuff is to look to othercountries Europe, for example,
the United Kingdom and we'revery similar in a way to that.
We came from there, we're verysimilar to there, and if we
understand what they're needingto do, we might end up needing
to get there too, and let's stayabreast to it would be my
(30:41):
general consideration.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, I guess we're sort of coming to a bit of a
wrap, and what I'm keen to getfrom you and we always are, we
always want to finish on a highis Do you want more?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
optimism above what she's already projecting to the
market.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Well, yeah, no, I do, Absolutely.
Call me greedy.
Absolutely I do.
Yeah, well, no.
I guess what stands out to me,jen, is that you're massively
passionate about the industryand been in it for a while and,
you know, been in some similarroles, and I've certainly picked
that up through my interactionswith you over the years.
You're obviously choosing tostay in the primary sector, like
(31:21):
what's the stuff that excitesyou about?
What's ahead for ahead forfarmers?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
yeah, it's a.
It's a really good one toconsider, isn't it for everyone?
Why are they doing what they do?
But I think for me, pastoralhomegrown feed farm systems is
my passion point and, um, thisrole that I'm doing now really
offers me such a hugeunderstanding of the full
picture of what we are doing inNew Zealand in terms of
producing food.
But the one thing I'll continueto believe is that what we do
(31:49):
here is pretty unique on aglobal scale.
We don't rely too much ongrains and all seeds and and
other inputs brought in fromoutside of the farm gate.
We generally try to do most ofit ourselves, and I say that
broadly.
There's different farm systemsdoing different things but for
me, like that unique naturaladvantage of basically turning
using your soil you know, as afarmer you're the steward of
(32:12):
that land using that to the bestof your ability to grow.
Whatever it is that you'regrowing and turn it into
whatever it is that you'reselling is an amazing place to
be and in any supportingindustry, for me that's helping
farmers to do that the best thatthey can, is always going to be
a fun place to work.
So, like, I feel like reallygrateful that I get to work in
(32:32):
amongst that um, and I'll talkabout grass and pasture and
homegrown feed all day, as youcan tell.
But, um, I think we do need torecognize that within all of
that it's it can be challenging,and you, we need to have a lot
of grace with ourselves here inNew Zealand because we have to
deal with different weatherpatterns and you know certain
pockets of New Zealand willexperience this while the other
one's having the best season oftheir life.
(32:53):
So there's a lot to be said fora temperate nation that's
coastal, but in that we can beso proud of what we're doing, I
think.
So it's a great place to be andthe future is certainly
optimistic from a protein demandperspective.
The world needs more proteinand it needs more protein with
one ingredient like milk or meatbutter cheese whatever it might
(33:16):
be.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
The stuff we're good at producing.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yes, and it's good for us.
It's good for us as humans toeat that stuff too.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Nice Closing comments from you, Matt it's been great,
just catching up because, asWade was saying, we've been in
the industry together for anumber of years and it's cool to
see the journey that you'vetaken and what you're into now.
It's just been a nice catch-up,wade.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It has been a good catch-up.
Yeah, the passion always comesthrough, which is great.
We expected it to be fair,though.
Jed, it's been great to haveyou on the podcast.
Really appreciate you giving upyour time.
Matt will be looking forward tosome feedback on growing grass
in Bunnythorpe.
I'm sure Now that he's a farmer, fully fillaged farmer.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Pioneer during the day and farming in the night in
the weekends.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So thanks, hex, for joining us.
It has been a lot of fun forthose that are listening.
Follow us on the podcast, shareit with your mates on all the
usual platforms and we lookforward to you tuning in for the
next episode.
Thanks very much, thanks againthanks, julian.
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products, and much,much more.
Welcome along to this episodeof Feed for Thought.
As usual, I've got Matt Dalywith me, so welcome along, matt.
Great to have you with us, andfor this episode we've got Jen.
Corcoran, so great to have youwith us too, matt.
Great to have you with us, andfor this episode we've got Jen
(00:25):
Corcoran, so great to have youwith us too, jen.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Great to be here.
It feels like we're catching up, so it's a nice, efficient use
of our time, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, we've, I guess, all known one another for a
long time.
The industry, the primarysector, is small.
We'll get on to what you'redoing now a little bit later in
this episode.
But, uh, for our listeners, uh,you know we we're in hamilton
at the moment and you're, I'mgonna say, new office here at
rabu bank, is it relatively new?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I think they've been in here.
I could be wrong here.
I think it's around three orfour years now, so pretty new,
yeah, and um great agriculturaltheme around the place, which we
all love, yeah we saw some,some soil we'll give it the
right terminology and the pillaron the way in Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
wool carpet, I see.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Wool carpet.
Yeah, great setup.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
It's a pretty cool spot.
So, look, we're going to getinto, obviously, your role with
Rabobank, but we always like tokind of get a feel for you know
who's Jen Corcoran, where haveyou come from, and get a little
bit of that story out first andthen, you know, touch on some of
the roles that you've had inthe industry, but give us the
back story Jen Corcoran, wherehave you come from to where you
(01:30):
are today?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thanks, wade.
Well, so I grew up in CentralHawke's Bay, so Waipakaro and
yeah, from a really ruralupbringing, though my parents
weren't actually farmers but wehad a lifestyle block so you
know 50 sheep farmers but we hada lifestyle block, so you know
50 sheep.
So I love lambing time.
I found my little lambing bookthe other day.
I used to write down how manylike lambs each sheep had anyway
and rearing calves and stuff.
So that was fun.
So I always wanted to get intothe ag industry.
(01:53):
Studied at massey uh, wentfarming straight out of my
undergrad for a couple of yearson a big beef farm down in mid
canterbury before the dairy,just before the dairy boom, and
then went back and studiedfurther in pastoral science.
So I got really interested inthat side of things.
Basically understanding how toturn grass into meat was my sort
of initial passion point and soI wanted to study that a little
(02:15):
bit further.
After that I lived in the UKfor a few years and then I came
back to New Zealand and got ajob with Barenburg, formerly
AgSeeds in a farm systemspastoral role.
By the time I left there I waswith them for just under 12
years.
So really good times and thenvery recently moved or the last
(02:35):
couple of years I moved intoRabobank.
So we'll talk a little bitabout my role at Rabo later in
the podcast, I'm sure.
But, yeah, pretty passionateabout homegrown feed and turning
grass and homegrown feed maizecrops into whatever protein it
is.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, there we go, nice, and that's one of the
reasons I suppose we wanted toget back in touch with you.
It's been a while for a coupleof us, but can you reflect on
what it was like 12 years agowhen you started at Barenbroke
and how it changed, or systemschanged, over that decade?
I suppose.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, it's a really interesting thing to reflect on.
I think In my experience ofpastoral farming in New Zealand,
we've been historically verygood at feeding animals on a
largely homegrown feed base, sothat's grass and then whatever
crops, depending on your region,suits you for summer or winter
and when you need to plug thatgap.
(03:31):
And I think you know the thingthat's been challenging is
stocking rates have increasedbroadly across, you know, all
sectors and therefore theability to harvest that feed can
be more challenging, dependingon soil types, depending on how
much feed you might want tobring in.
Bringing in more feed can be agreat band-aid, but what's that
(03:53):
doing to your pasture?
quality if you're notnecessarily focusing on that the
most.
So the thing I noticed the mostwas probably really the best
operators were understandingalways that we need to look
after a quality of what's goingon on the home ground, on the
soil, in terms of what we'regrowing, and the challenge came
in, you know, depending on theseasons, as it always does.
(04:15):
But those who prioritise thatpasture management and crop
management and being really goodstewards of what they're up to
were the ones that seemed tohave the best results.
But then in farming there's justso much that we can't control
outside that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Do you think the uncontrolled part has become
more challenging and by that weoften talk about weather, talk
about extremes, the variability?
We'll get on to productivitygains a little bit later.
But do you think it's morechallenging now than it was even
a decade ago?
And you probably can reflecteven further back to a couple of
(04:52):
decades ago?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I think I honestly do believe there's more
potential challenge because ofthe fact that stocking rates
have increased so we've actuallygot more animals on the land
overall have increased, so we'veactually got more animals on
the land overall, and also,essentially, that there is
seeming to be a trend of moreextreme potential weather
patterns coming through atcertain times and in certain
areas, and also there's a lot ofpockets that are reasonably
(05:17):
great for wintering but then canbe much more challenging in the
summertime, and so thoselighter soil types, those
pumices, those really lightsilts.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
The gravels that were on the wall.
Yeah, the gravels.
What?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
about Bunnythorpe.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
The beautiful heavy clay.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That's just picked up a farmer Bunnythorpe.
How does that go In yourexperience?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I feel like you're just really sad that Bunnythorpe
isn't represented on the rubberband wall.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So I'll take that one up with the leadership team?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
That'd be great.
Thanks, yes, but no, we've gotand that's the thing about New
Zealand right, We've got thisamazing temperate country, but
we've got vastly different soiltypes.
We've got vastly differentclimatic conditions from the top
of the north to the bottom ofthe south and everywhere in
between, including Barneythorpe.
So you know, there's no onesize fits all, but I think some
(06:06):
of the challenges that we getrequire us to be providing
farmers and those looking afterthe land with information that's
really relevant to where theyare.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And there's no like.
Do this and you'll succeed.
It's where are you farming?
What's your stocking rate?
What do you want to do?
What do you want to grow?
What crops are you going to use?
And then, let's go forth.
So I think there's more andmore requirement for information
that's really relevant to whatpeople are doing.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And I think did that come through in your role with
Barenburg too, because youstarted out kind of with correct
me if I'm wrong in a very muchagronomist kind of and did that
evolve into farm systems,Because I guess that's where
we've crossed paths a lot inyour time in Barenburg.
It's in that farm system space.
So did it evolve and what wasthe driver behind that?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, that's right, wade.
So basically I started off verymuch in that research and
development place and, as you'llknow, any sort of pastoral
support industry in New Zealandthere's a lot of R&D that goes
on.
Pioneer's really wonderful atthis as well and my role in the
start you know, the first five,six years was doing a lot of
research in terms of plantbreeding and later stage trials
(07:13):
for grass, plant varieties,clover and other crops as well,
and within that you have trialsall over New Zealand, as I said,
on all different soil types,different pockets of the
countryside, and I was verylucky to be able to travel
extensively throughout NewZealand, north and south, and I
was based in both islands atdifferent periods of my time.
And that's where you learnright all of these things.
(07:36):
You know, this grass writerthat's doing amazing in
Canterbury isn't there after sixmonths in Northland, or on the
light pumice in the centralplateau or whatever it might be,
you know.
So it's very much genetics byenvironment and then by
management as well.
So it's very nuanced.
And then obviously theunderstanding of all of that
stuff and all of the things thatwent wrong allows a lot of
(07:57):
learning.
And then the space thatinterested me the most was farm
systems, because it just itseemed to me like a place where
you'd always be learning,because no farm is necessarily
the same as another, and thenwhat the person who is looking
after that farm wants to achieveis also not always the same so
there's so much that can be doneand learned from that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, exciting space.
So I want to sort of step backa little bit into the plant
breeding, and I'm sure listenersare going to uh, they'd kill me
if I didn't ask.
But you know, there seems to bethe sense in the industry that
that pasture productivity haskind of been relatively flat.
Um, you know, so we've done alot of plant breeding, going
back to your earlier role, andare we just being more
(08:38):
challenged by environment?
You know you talked about, uh,genetics by environment.
Are we being more challenged byenvironment at a faster rate
than what we're seeing ingenetic improvement?
Or how do you see all that?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
playing out.
It's a really interesting thingto discuss, you know, and I
find it fascinating because it'salways asked this question's
always asked by farmers and alsoacross industry at conferences
and stuff.
Right, because so much time andmoney goes into plant breeding
and we have made in pastoralespecially in my background huge
advances in terms of potentialversus the old cultivars that
(09:12):
were, say, 20, 25, 30 more yearsago, once you put them on a
farm and who knows what wentinto that paddock before the new
grass.
But if they're growing 20% morethan the old variety, that's
potentially easier to manage.
We've got so much more at stake.
Right, we've got a grass that'sgrowing potentially in spring,
(09:34):
20% more.
So we need either 20% moremouths to feed it or we need to
be getting into that paddock 20%sooner.
So there's a lot more that cango wrong.
The more grazing days that youhave in a paddock 20% sooner.
So there's a lot more that cango wrong, the more grazing days
that you have in a paddock.
So therefore, if something doesgo wrong and we know especially
in that first two years of thepasture's life you can see how
(09:54):
it can be more challenging.
The other thing that we don'ttalk about enough is also
probably around soil structure,in terms of how we're getting
those, these grasses and crops,in to begin with and what that
might mean for the futureproductivity or persistence of
that paddock.
But of course also fertilizer.
So if it's growing that muchmore does it need a little bit
(10:14):
more.
Potentially, of course, nitrogen, that one's relatively easy,
but what else does it need moreof?
That's going to help it have agood root system and survive
longer.
But the big one for me isprobably a new grass is going to
need to be treated like a newgrass for that first 12 months,
and what I saw most throughoutmy career with barrenbrug is
that usually after the first twoor three grazings, after that
nip off, graze the paddock's inthe round, and it's a newish
(10:37):
grass paddock can't remember ifwe did that one last year or the
year before, and that's okaybut, that's where you the roles,
like what I was doing and whatyou might be talking to on farm
is that education piece andrelevance piece like how can we?
do better, Because thesepastures do have the potential
to do better, but what's thepoint if we're not actually
getting that management side?
So my role actually evolvedinto that entire piece at
(10:58):
Barenburg which was hey, we wantpeople to be able to get the
best out of this, because we'vespent all this time breeding it
and it's money breeding it.
Let's have some good comms onhow we do that.
And that's where you start tolearn what might be going wrong.
On farm.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
For some of those guys that picked that up and saw
that, what would be some of thetips that you'd be able to
throw back to those?
You say it's management in somedegree.
What's something that you couldthrow back at people if they're
saying this is all this.
You know your new geneticsaren't performing.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah, the best I find .
I used to find those visits themost fun because you can ask so
many questions around beforeyou even get into, like what
we're going to do to fix this,just understanding what's
happened.
And inevitably a power heromight have been involved before
the grass goes in, so that's notthe farmer's fault.
You know that this grass ispulling out in its first summer.
(11:50):
If the soil structure's youknow, not there On a student
soil type, they can't handlethat.
Maybe your bunnythorpe soilscan, but these other ones.
You know what I mean.
So it does depend.
And then the other one isobviously for me undergrazing of
pastures is a far worse evilthan overgrazing.
(12:11):
Potentially Overgrazing willcause a slowdown in recovery
after summer, for example ifit's been dry and you nip off
that first green tinge.
But undergrazing in spring justmeans you don't get daughter
tiller survival, so you don'tget thickening up of pasture and
that's you know, the whole game.
In my opinion after my years wasyou do spring pasture
management well and you'll havea persistent pasture through the
(12:32):
summer and through summerrecovery and into autumn.
And this is where farm systemscome in, because taking out
paddocks at the right time formaize or whatever it is,
dropping them into silage,cutting them when they're not
too long, these sorts of thingsall really help.
So there's so much educationthere and I feel like it's
actually the fault of industryin my opinion.
(12:52):
It's very much in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Easy to say now You've got to bang your shirt on
.
Yeah, that's true.
Now I'm working in research forRoving.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
This is why it's great to talk to you now about
previous roles, but no, I'vesaid that very publicly before
too, and I think a lot of peoplewould agree.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
but you know it's up to us to help and that's why we
exist in jobs in the primaryindustry to help our farmers
best turn homegrown feed intoprotein.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So with that, you know, thinking about the spring
in particular you know, likehigher stocking rates, we've
gone through a phase ofincreasing stocking rates.
We've gone through a phase ofincreasing stocking rates.
Probably in the last few yearswe've probably gone slightly the
other way.
We're expecting more productionper animal, whether that's beef
or dairy.
That makes it kind of morechallenging.
We've got more feeds coming inPutting your farm systems head
(13:38):
on.
Now how do you get that outcome?
You know farmers use tools likemowing and they've pre-mowing
or post or um.
You know they use physicalstocking rate.
When the industry sort of seemsto be heading down down that
pathway, how do you balance thatout and achieve those kind of
grazing outcomes?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
and I think in a dairy situation, you know we've
got a reasonable understandingof what our demand is day to day
and week to week, and what thatproduction will look like if we
can, if we can meet that demandand with that, I think look
like if we can meet that demandand with that.
I think that's where your dataand your measuring really comes
to play.
So, if you are understandinghow much pasture you've got,
what your demand is, what youwant to feed your animals and
(14:17):
then what that's going to alsolook like in two or three or
four weeks' time, that foresightallows you the ability to jump
in and say right, we were goingto spray out our maize paddocks
on X date.
We're going to have a surplusbefore that.
Do we also want to take out asilage paddock at the same day?
We'll reduce our total you knowgrazeable area to this, which
(14:37):
means our stocking rate willjump to this and then perhaps
we're away.
Then you know we get a cold snapand things change and that's
what happens.
However, then you know you'vegot your may silage or your
pasture silage, or you can slowthat round down a little bit and
start to build.
So I think it is aboutmeasuring and try to foresee
into the future, which is what Ido day to day in my job now a
different thing that I'm tryingto foresee in the future, but if
(15:00):
we can be understanding as muchas we can about the farm that
we're on and what we think thenext two or three or four weeks
is going to look like.
That allows us to makedecisions early, and I think
making decisions at the righttime is beneficial and we won't
always get it right, but it doesallow.
Knowledge is power.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I'm going to pick up on.
It's something I'm going to say.
You wrote, maybe about 2020,sometime around, and it was
about annual pasture productionand the variation and how
significant that can be.
And we often talk about itsaying, oh you know, it can be
as much as three or four tonnesa hectare between a good and a
(15:37):
bad year.
We obviously think we're prettywell placed, from a maize
company, to support that kind ofthat perfect partner story,
perfect partner to pasture, andwe think that works quite well.
You know what's your view onjust trying to.
You know that's essentiallyfeeding one cow a hectare, that
variation Like.
Again from a farm systems pointof view, how do you see the
best way around kind ofnavigating that, that
(15:59):
differential?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
yeah, that's a good point.
And you know, in a wet yearlike this, the year being, the
spring being in southland, youknow, really challenging for
everyone down there if you havea rain event overnight, for
example and this is, you knowexactly what you're saying right
, you've just put animals in at,say, 2600 and then it rains.
They're going to eat like 200kilos of that and the rest is
(16:23):
going to be in the mud.
So almost there goes thatamount of grass and the recovery
of that paddock is not greatbecause you didn't get to hit
the nice residual that youwanted.
So these sorts of things happenon farm and big time.
So I think it's a trickyquestion to answer.
But broadly, if we can try todo the best, if we can try to do
the best 80 that we can 80 ofthe time then we're going to do
(16:43):
really well most of the time andwe're not going to be able to
control those situations thathappen and this is where you
need supplements.
So we don't want to be farming100 on grass only if we want to
have flexibility to continue tofeed our animals well when
things go wrong.
But the other thing that canhappen, you know, under grazing
a pasture, not hitting residualall year long will also reduce
(17:03):
the total feed growing.
Nipping off too early after therain in autumn, if it hasn't
rained, will reduce the amountyou're going to grow over the
next two months.
That'll do the same thing.
So understanding just thosefundamentals around the way the
pasture wants to be treated, forme anyway, is the best way to
always ensure you're going toget the most of the potential
for that year.
And the potential might be backbased off sunshine hours or
(17:26):
moisture or whatever's going on.
But if you can be at the topend of your district in terms of
what that potential is, andthis year it might be 16 tonne,
last year it might have been 18tonne, but whatever it is you're
going to comparatively, doYou're trying to cover sort of
80% of the variability, not thewhole?
lot.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, that's right your system would be a wild ride
if you're trying to cover allof the variability.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Oh, I know, and that's the thing, right, we're
farming in New Zealand in theelements.
That sounds so dramatic, yeah,but you know, we don't
necessarily, and some people dohave big barns and other ways
that we can get animals off inthe rain or sun or whatever it
might be.
So we need to think carefullyabout what farm system we want,
what winter crops, what summercrops, what maize, how much
(18:10):
maize we want to be growing, sowe can basically then do 80 plus
percent better with the pasturethat we grow.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, jen, you were fizzed about this conversation.
How did you make the jump towhere you are now?
Wade will pull me back to thisconversation because we love the
farm systems chat, but you knowyou swapped the gumboots for
some shiny RMs now to walkaround town or no.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I don't think they're RMs.
I don't actually own RMs.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I was going to say high heels but, that wasn't
Quite similar.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
They look a little bit like RMs they're leather.
We could get Bianca to take aphoto of them and maybe Well.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I'm not sure that they show in any photos.
Yeah, enough after this podcast.
No, it's a great question and Ithink a lot of people were
pretty confused and shocked whenI came into this role?
Yeah, because fundamentally alsodidn't probably understand what
I was off to do but maybedidn't know.
So I am really interested inwhat's going on within the farm
(19:09):
gate in grass and pasture andhomegrown feed.
It's like what really gets mefizzed, to use your word, and
100% like I was very passionateabout it.
I did Kellogg a couple of yearsago just over two years, three
years ago now and I got reallyintrigued by what happens
post-Farmgate throughout thatcourse.
So it's six months of time.
But I realised, you know, I'vebeen very focused on
(19:32):
grass-feeding animals, farmsystems and I still love that so
much.
But I thought, oh, there's awhole other world that exists
once our products that we'reproducing on farm leave the farm
gate.
So what farmers are essentiallydoing is doing all that stuff
that I was talking about day today, but what they're getting
paid for is what's happeningonce the milk or the meat or the
wool or whatever it is leavesthe farm and goes off to an
(19:54):
export market.
So I thought, well, this isfascinating.
I knew about the rubberresearch team, which is where I
sit now within Rubber Bank, andhave always been really
interested in what they do.
So my day-to-day job now is isthe animal protein analyst for
New Zealand, so red meat mainly,and the job of our team.
So Rubber Bank has investedheavily in a research team.
(20:15):
So I am not a banker.
That's probably the biggest one, and I think people started to
get confused.
I used to go banking, no no, I'mnot a banker.
I'm very much still in research, so the closest analogy to what
I used to do is probably insidethe farm gate and now very much
outside of it and communicatingthose messages.
So understanding completely whatthe commodity trends, what the
markets are doing for red meat,animal protein in New Zealand
(20:42):
and the bank has investedheavily across the globe in this
research team, rabo Research.
So there's 90 analysts globallyand our day-to-day
responsibility is to deeplyunderstand our commodity sector.
So for me, animal protein,we've got Emma who also does
dairy for New Zealand and withinthat, understand everything
from, know everything fromsupply, demand, what that means
for commodity prices, whatglobal trends or consumer you
(21:05):
know demand and confidence isdoing and what that might mean
for what prices we're going toget for that.
So that's what we do Basically.
The team globally is taskedwith understanding everything
for each sector.
So covering paddock to plate.
So we've got analysts that dodairy sheep and beef, all of the
different types of proteins,anything in deer Grains and all
(21:27):
sorts Anything in deer.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Just out of curiosity , I'm technically tasked with
deer.
Matt's a passionate deerfarming man.
There we go.
We have a good yarn.
Okay, we can get the yarn after.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, so that's what we do and how we fit into the
bank is essentially to supportthe bank internally in terms of
risk.
It's going to happen with prices, it's going to happen with land
values, all this sort of thing.
We're going to be supportingclients, so all the farmers and
understanding what we think.
The next you know this is thatforesight stuff.
You know what we think the nextweeks or months or year might
(21:57):
look like.
And then, of course, wider inthe industry, around thought
leadership, talking to the media, sharing all of the information
so that people can make thebest decisions based on the
information at hand.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I guess how far out is the global insights piece?
How far are you looking out interms of the signals and the
trends and kind of feeding thatback?
You write a prettycomprehensive report on a
regular basis.
Now, how far out are youlooking?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, so we report in New Zealand and Australia.
We cover both here across amonthly report, but then we'll
do an outlook at the start ofeach year to try to give our
best lens of what we think thenext 12 months is going to look
like broadly.
So of course, this year is aninteresting one globally and, um
, honestly, you get whiplashbecause you wake up each morning
and see what on earth hashappened overnight when we look
(22:47):
around the globe at the moment.
So it's really challenging timeto have that insight.
But there's a there's a fewthings when it comes to food,
right, consumer confidence isimportant.
How much money have people gotto spend on perhaps more premium
proteins such as red meat anddairy?
And if we're an exportingnation, you know 95 plus percent
of everything that we'reproducing here in terms of milk
(23:08):
and meat is getting exported, sowe need to understand where
we're sending that.
How much money have the peoplegot to spend in these markets
and what does the global supplyof all these things also look
like in terms of our competition?
Also, how much have we got inNew Zealand?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
in terms of our own procurement, supply and
competition.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So we're looking out as far as we can, which is not
answering your question at all,but we're trying to foresee what
we think the next six and 12months might look like and you
can generally have a reasonableunderstanding in terms of the
livestock side of things.
And you can generally have areasonable understanding in
terms of the livestock side ofthings In terms of supply.
Demand is trickier to gauge attimes and some things you just
(23:45):
don't see coming.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I guess, geopolitical .
At the moment it seems sounstable, uncertain, to your
point.
It feels like you wake up oneday it could be completely
different to the previous day.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, it's pretty crazy out there at the moment,
different to the previous day.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy outthere at the moment and yeah,
that's certainly providing a lotof time and reading and
understanding, but also justwatching back as well and just
seeing what we think mighthappen.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Righto, what does the next?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
six months look like then.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I knew that down it's recorded.
We want to capture this it'spretty good isn't it?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Well, we're late, may now, aren't we?
So, yeah, things are looking.
It's a really interesting time.
So let's speak really bigpicture here, within animal
protein and dairy also.
Anyway, we've got the samefundamentals.
So supply globally is not ashigh as it's been in the past,
but demand is very muchimproving versus the last two,
(24:41):
three years.
So if you just look at thebasic fundamentals of that, we
haven't got as much, but peopleare actually willing to pay a
little bit more for it.
So we're seeing this reallydecent rise in commodity prices
across dairy and across red meat, and pleasingly across red meat
, because 18 months or a yearago, even for sheep meat, we
were at sort of six, seven-yearlows in terms of, you know, that
(25:04):
average per kilo price, farmgate price for lamb, and now
we're sitting at a seasonalrecord high, not the highest
ever, but for this time of theyear, the highest ever in terms
of price.
Now, some of that's driven bynot enough sheep, for example,
in New Zealand right now, orlambs in New Zealand right now,
but also, you know, we've got abit of improved demand globally,
which is really important, andfewer animals globally.
(25:28):
So, yeah, so it's a good newsstory in terms of those farm
gate prices and we think, forthe next six months at least,
and into, you know, the next 12months, pricing's looking to be,
you know, well above five-yearaverages across the board.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, it's a lot better than when you first came
in.
Then, like you know being ableto, you talked about
communicating those messages.
How have you found that kind ofchanged?
I mean it's a lot easier.
I shouldn't say easier now, butit's more comfortable.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
So when I started in this role, the sheet meat price
was doing a nosedive south and Iwas entering a role and it was
challenging and I was very newto the industry, to the red meat
industry as well, Reasonablywell-known in past or in New
Zealand, but like an unknownperson basically in this
industry.
So it was challenging.
(26:16):
But it was so challenging thatit really taught me quickly what
to say and what not to say.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
The Kelloggs would have been quite handy for some
of that.
Yes, exactly Some of thelearnings.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah.
So no, it was a tough start,but for me it was recognising
how tough it was for those outthere across the industry,
across the farming clients andfarming people in New Zealand
and the red sheep and beef space, and also you know the
processing industry as well,because demand just wasn't there
and pricing was really low.
(26:45):
So it was hard, but no, it'svery much and it also just
really shows how quickly thingscan turn around in change.
But it also speaks to the factthat what was a good price five
years ago is a medium-ish pricenow, because costs have gone up.
Yeah, across the board.
(27:05):
You know it's embeddedinflation.
So what did we get up to 18%inflation, or 17% or 18%
inflation across New Zealandfarms about three years ago.
It didn't go down 20% thefollowing year.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It's still up there, right, and so what used to be X
price needs to be now X plusthis price.
So I think what we're seeingnow is a shift to what is more
required for profitability.
In New Zealand, and because weare so reliant on our homegrown
feed farm systems, we are lowcost, but we also still have a
lot of costs that can be veryvariable and very much higher
(27:38):
than they used to be.
So I think it's getting better,but it needs to be Pricing's
getting to where it needs to be.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the sentiment very much
that we pick up across dairy inparticular.
I'm sure it's the same for redmeat.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah.
So yeah, tough start and thingsare better now, but every day
is a learning curve, so it'sgood too.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I just want to sort of pick up on one or two things
just before we wrap.
One of the things we comeacross a lot in the dairy sector
in particular is the customerand this kind of feeling of
reaching inside the farm gate.
How does that compare to?
And when I say that you know interms of some of the
environmental emissions and whatgoes into the product, and I
(28:18):
guess for red it's very muchabout the quality of the product
how much of a reach is therefrom global customers buying our
product inside the farm gatefor the red meat sector?
Is there much of that or notreally?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yes, where does it stop?
That's a really good question,wade, because it's something
we're probably talking aboutquite a lot in previous years,
the last couple of years it'sgone a little bit more quiet at
the moment.
However, fundamentally and youknow, we sit in a global team so
we hear from people in Europeand across other parts of the
(28:51):
world and there's very much arequirement by customers so
those buying the product fortheir consumers to understand
where food came from, how it wasproduced and what that involved
.
And that can include some ofthese metrics around um
sustainability and emissions,and it can also include you know
(29:14):
what the animal ate or you knowwhat the quality of the meat is
, all of these other things.
This thing, this sort of stuff'snot going to go away, and
there's also, you know, a cohortof consumers who are very
interested in understandingwhat's going on inside the farm
gate as well.
So we've got a great story totell and not to go into the
let's tell the New Zealand storyconversation.
But if you think about whatwe're doing here, we are very
(29:36):
naturally producing protein fromhomegrown feed sources and it's
a great story and it's anatural story and we've got um a
lot of good stuff going on, andI think the best thing that we
can all do right now is togather as much information as we
can about what we're doing,record it so that, if we need to
prove it in the future, we'realready doing a lot of good
(29:57):
stuff and there'll be sometweaks that can be made, but I
think you know consumers and andregardless of what a consumer's
doing, if your customer who'spurchasing and exporting from
you importing from you, sorryrequires this of you, you
probably have to sort of sortout that paperwork or whatever
it is, to make sure that itticks the box.
So I think it's not gone awayand.
(30:18):
I think it's only going toperhaps increase in the future,
and you can see that in someother countries now, and the
best example New Zealand canoften use to understand some of
the stuff is to look to othercountries Europe, for example,
the United Kingdom and we'revery similar in a way to that.
We came from there, we're verysimilar to there, and if we
understand what they're needingto do, we might end up needing
to get there too, and let's stayabreast to it would be my
(30:41):
general consideration.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, I guess we're sort of coming to a bit of a
wrap, and what I'm keen to getfrom you and we always are, we
always want to finish on a highis Do you want more?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
optimism above what she's already projecting to the
market.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Well, yeah, no, I do, Absolutely.
Call me greedy.
Absolutely I do.
Yeah, well, no.
I guess what stands out to me,jen, is that you're massively
passionate about the industryand been in it for a while and,
you know, been in some similarroles, and I've certainly picked
that up through my interactionswith you over the years.
You're obviously choosing tostay in the primary sector, like
(31:21):
what's the stuff that excitesyou about?
What's ahead for ahead forfarmers?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
yeah, it's a.
It's a really good one toconsider, isn't it for everyone?
Why are they doing what they do?
But I think for me, pastoralhomegrown feed farm systems is
my passion point and, um, thisrole that I'm doing now really
offers me such a hugeunderstanding of the full
picture of what we are doing inNew Zealand in terms of
producing food.
But the one thing I'll continueto believe is that what we do
(31:49):
here is pretty unique on aglobal scale.
We don't rely too much ongrains and all seeds and and
other inputs brought in fromoutside of the farm gate.
We generally try to do most ofit ourselves, and I say that
broadly.
There's different farm systemsdoing different things but for
me, like that unique naturaladvantage of basically turning
using your soil you know, as afarmer you're the steward of
(32:12):
that land using that to the bestof your ability to grow.
Whatever it is that you'regrowing and turn it into
whatever it is that you'reselling is an amazing place to
be and in any supportingindustry, for me that's helping
farmers to do that the best thatthey can, is always going to be
a fun place to work.
So, like, I feel like reallygrateful that I get to work in
(32:32):
amongst that um, and I'll talkabout grass and pasture and
homegrown feed all day, as youcan tell.
But, um, I think we do need torecognize that within all of
that it's it can be challenging,and you, we need to have a lot
of grace with ourselves here inNew Zealand because we have to
deal with different weatherpatterns and you know certain
pockets of New Zealand willexperience this while the other
one's having the best season oftheir life.
(32:53):
So there's a lot to be said fora temperate nation that's
coastal, but in that we can beso proud of what we're doing, I
think.
So it's a great place to be andthe future is certainly
optimistic from a protein demandperspective.
The world needs more proteinand it needs more protein with
one ingredient like milk or meatbutter cheese whatever it might
(33:16):
be.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
The stuff we're good at producing.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yes, and it's good for us.
It's good for us as humans toeat that stuff too.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Nice Closing comments from you, Matt it's been great,
just catching up because, asWade was saying, we've been in
the industry together for anumber of years and it's cool to
see the journey that you'vetaken and what you're into now.
It's just been a nice catch-up,wade.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It has been a good catch-up.
Yeah, the passion always comesthrough, which is great.
We expected it to be fair,though.
Jed, it's been great to haveyou on the podcast.
Really appreciate you giving upyour time.
Matt will be looking forward tosome feedback on growing grass
in Bunnythorpe.
I'm sure Now that he's a farmer, fully fillaged farmer.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Pioneer during the day and farming in the night in
the weekends.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So thanks, hex, for joining us.
It has been a lot of fun forthose that are listening.
Follow us on the podcast, shareit with your mates on all the
usual platforms and we lookforward to you tuning in for the
next episode.
Thanks very much, thanks againthanks, julian.
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