October 13, 2025 • 33 mins
Join us for a special podcast celebrating 50 years since the signing of the seed production and distribution agreement between Pioneer® Hi-Bred International Incorporated and the Yates family. We’re joined by our Founder Philip Yates, Managing Director Will Yates, and Raewyn Densley to reflect on this 50-year journey.
We follow the story from importing maize genetics to building a domestic seed production facility and partnering with Gisborne growers to produce New Zealand grown maize seed. Raewyn Densley talks to how maize silage has shaped dairy systems in New Zealand. Through setbacks, grit, and a long-term view, the Yates' family remain committed to enhancing the future of New Zealand agriculture.
It’s been a privilege for the Yates family to represent the Pioneer brand in New Zealand over the past five decades. They sincerely thank the farmers who’ve planted Pioneer maize seed, along with the merchants, contractors, consultants, and the Pioneer team who’ve supported them throughout the years.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
I have the pleasure of sitting down with Philip
Yates, the founder of GeneticTechnologies, Will Yates,
Managing Director of GeneticTechnologies, and Raymond
Densley, one of the earlyemployments, and we'll get into
some of the uniqueness aroundhow that came about.
I can't wait to just sit backand listen as you reminis and
talk about how the company hasgot to where it is today.
(00:38):
Philip, you've had such anincredible legacy, which started
with your involvement in thefamily business at the age of
17.
You introduced the Pioneer maizebrand to New Zealand 50 years
ago and have seen somesignificant changes in the dairy
and arable industries.
SPEAKER_04 (00:55):
I feel a great deal of satisfaction, of course, to
see that the Pioneer brand'sbeen accepted by farmers.
I was going to say readily.
It wasn't ready at the beginningbecause pioneer was unknown.
We had to get the brand known.
But I feel very proud of thefact that we've got a wonderful
product, we've got the world'sfinest genetics, and I think we
produce very fine quality seedin New Zealand.
So you put top genetics into topseed, you've got a great
(01:18):
product, and the farmers loveit.
SPEAKER_02 (01:20):
Well, you've been working alongside Philip for
many years now, your dad, andleading the business, and have
recently expanded intoAustralia.
How does it feel being a part ofthat evolution?
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Well, it's certainly had its challenges along the
way.
We've also had a lot of fun andexcitement, haven't we, Ray and
Philip, over the years?
Most importantly, that it's beenfulfilling and rewarding to see,
firstly, the growth in the NewZealand maize market,
increasingly important role atmaize and maize silage in the
dairy industry has occurred overthe last several decades.
And probably a highlight for mewas our move to acquire the
(01:54):
pioneer business in Australiaabout eight years ago, which
really broadened and diversifiedour product range in the markets
in which we operate acrossAustralia and New Zealand.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
And and Raewin, you've been a part of that
journey with GTL for near on 30years as well.
And you helped that integrationof main silage into New Zealand.
What's a memory that sticks outfor you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
This very room, I had my first um interview, and I
can remember coming in andsitting on the couch and being
grilled by Philip, who wasasking a whole heap of uh
questions about my capabilitiesand things.
It was an interesting startbecause I was a 23-year-old
graduate entering into a verymale-dominated arable world and
(02:35):
trying to really change the waythat farmers farmed.
It was a very pastoral-basedfarming system back then.
You know, we've seen a bigtransition of how farmers feed
cows, and it's been exciting tobe part of that journey, but
kind of quite daunting at timesas well.
SPEAKER_02 (02:50):
We sit here kind of 50 years on from those early
days.
I know it hasn't always beensmooth sailing.
Sure it hasn't.
Can you share the moment whenthat felt so far away?
SPEAKER_04 (03:00):
Of course, we've had lots of ups and downs, which the
market probably knew all aboutit at the time.
We imported some seed fromFrance because uh we'd had a
shortfall in production.
We wanted the seed badly, andthe seed arrived on a ship, was
unloaded in Calcutta and sat onthe dock there for some weeks,
finally loaded back on anothership and arrived here.
We didn't waste any timeretesting it, which was a big
(03:21):
mistake.
We shot it straight out to themarket.
Heat and humidity in Calcuttahad destroyed the seed.
We didn't find that untilfarmers started screaming at us
it wasn't growing.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
It was kind of scattered because I guess those
outside bags had taken thebrunt, and some of the bags that
were probably in the middle ofthe pallets or in the middle of
the container weren't so bad.
SPEAKER_04 (03:39):
We realized that New Zealand produced seed would be
the best, would have control ofthe quality, but I couldn't
afford to build a plant, and itwas going to cost millions to
build a plant to produce seed.
Where do you get that sort ofmoney from?
Finally, I realized that we'reuh up against something that
just wasn't gonna work.
So I I got on a plane, went toDes Moines, Iowa, and by this
time I'd become personal friendswith Tom Urban, who was chairman
(04:00):
of Pioneer, wonderful man.
And I said, Tom, we're on alosing streak here.
We can't import seed reliablyfrom other countries and sell it
in New Zealand safely.
He said, Well, you've got toproduce it in New Zealand.
I said, Well, I'm sure we do.
Good idea.
But what am I gonna do it with?
Well, he said, build a plant.
Well, that's a good idea too.
That's gonna cost millions.
Where am I gonna get that sortof money from?
(04:22):
He said, we'll lend it to you.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
And that was the start of what is Gisbon now.
SPEAKER_03 (04:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so well, were you around atthose early stages?
I wasn't around when the plantwas being built.
And in fact, I was in the US atthe time doing a an internship
with Pioneer.
I was there for I think uh abouttwo and a half years, which was
a fantastic experience and movedthrough different areas and
divisions of the business fromproduction and marketing and
(04:49):
what they called internationaloperations at the time, which
was headquarters uh interactionwith its businesses all around
the world.
So that was a wonderfulexperience.
Not the traditional OE, Isuppose.
No, not quite the traditionalOE.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
There was a bit of the traditional OE thrown in
there, though, wasn't there?
SPEAKER_03 (05:04):
Well, I think Raewin, this is this is being
filmed.
There was a an internationalconference on maize silage and
animal nutrition that Philipsent Raywin up to, and she and I
caught up there.
In fact, I think I went to thesame conference tonight.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
We met.
We met up there for the firsttime.
Was that the first time we met?
It was.
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
If I rewind back the clock 50 years, Philip, I recall
you telling me that whilst youwere leading the Yates family
seed business, you saw anarticle on hybrid wheat.
SPEAKER_04 (05:34):
Yates was in the seed business, but it was a lot
of other things.
A company with 2,000 staff atthat point.
We had made a few acquisitions.
We were selling everything fromNissan cars to wide range of
things.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
Diversification.
SPEAKER_04 (05:45):
Yes.
It was a very profitablecompany, growing rapidly.
We'd grown from 150 staff when Ijoined it.
When I left it, we had 2,000staff.
So it was a significant company.
I'd been there from thebeginning of my working years.
The seed business was part ofit.
What I had learned is how tohandle a range of products.
We had pansy seed and carrotseed and a bit of ryegrass seed.
(06:07):
That was it.
I was on a 10-day holiday out atGreat Barrier on my sailboat.
We had one of these tropicalcyclones come down, and we had
two anchors out, a lot of noisegoing on, the anchor stranding
on the chain.
Sitting down in the cabin, therain was peeling down, the wind
was blowing.
One of the other guys on theboat had a pile of magazines,
amongst which was the BusinessWeek magazine for America.
(06:28):
This particular copy had anarticle on hybrid wheat, cover
story.
Ooh, wow.
That sounds interesting.
It mentioned three or fourcompanies.
It was DeCalb and Pioneer, Funk.
Northrop King.
Northrop King.
I thought, what I've got to dois get alongside one of these
companies and learn somethingabout this and maybe represent
them in New Zealand, which isexactly what I did.
I wrote to them a very niceletter and didn't hear a word.
(06:50):
A month goes by now.
No response.
I sent them a cable.
Emails, nothing like that.
It was a cable.
Still no response.
Finally, I got from the AucklandPost Office the phone numbers of
these companies.
And so how did you come aboutPioneer then?
That company was the second ofthe three I was going to visit.
We drove back into the in intothe uh headquarters of Pioneer.
(07:12):
I didn't know anything aboutPioneer, but I got a very, very
warm, polite, friendlyreception.
And during the course of theday, I found out a lot about
Pioneer.
First off, they were a recentlylisted public company.
Secondly, they were a familycompany that had just floated to
be public.
They were like Yates.
They had the same sort ofattitude to business that Yates
(07:33):
had.
I liked them right from the dayone.
More inquiries, and I found outthat in the in the cornseed
business, which the maze theycalled corn there, they were the
market leaders.
Eventually I had afternooncoffee with the with the
chairman, Wayne Skidmore, whowas just approaching retirement.
What an absolute gentleman hewas, a man probably late 60s.
And he said, Tell us more aboutyour business.
(07:55):
I said, Well, Mr.
Skidmore, it's a bit like yourcompany.
He said, Don't call me Mr.
Skidmore.
My name's Wayne.
Oh, thank you, Wayne.
I thought we're making goodprogress here.
And it went on like this duringthe day.
And I told him all I could whatI wanted to do, but I didn't
know what.
He said, Why don't you inquireabout hybrid wheat?
Why don't you get interested incorn?
I said, Well, there's no corn inNew Zealand.
(08:16):
He said, We wondered why you'dcome to see us, really.
We're basically a corn seedcompany.
We're trying to breed hybridwheat.
Nobody's got hybrid wheat.
It hasn't been developed yet ona commercial scale.
It's not an economical crop toproduce, but we'd love to talk
to you a bit more about corn ifyou want to talk to us about
corn.
I said, Well, let's do that, butlet's talk about corn.
(08:37):
And then we took it from there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:38):
And so what were the advantages of pioneer in
bringing that maize into the NewZealand market?
SPEAKER_04 (08:45):
It was just my my bubbling enthusiasm that uh
youthful enthusiasm.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
And to add to your your wider profile, because it
was still under Yates.
Yeah, well, we had I thinksomething like 15,000 stock
items.
And so if we if we start towander a bit further forward in
1985, Equity Corp came and tookcontrol of the company uh via a
share market raid.
Uh and you were in your early50s and found yourself dismissed
(09:09):
from the Yates family business.
Yep.
How did that make you feel?
SPEAKER_04 (09:13):
I'd been brought up to believe that the family
company was part of the familyheritage.
And to think that it was goingto be lost on my watch was a
tremendous blow.
The seed businesses and thebusiness we're running, it
wasn't all seeds, as I've toldyou, was all I knew.
In those days, the then currentgovernment had the marginal
income tax was 66%.
Well, on the salary we're at and66% income tax.
(09:35):
You couldn't accumulate anycapital.
I had a young family that had tobe supported with no job and no
money and no prospects.
I was actually si um 57.
How did you set up a new companyin in that journey?
With great difficulty.
First of all, I had no money, nooffice.
I had my own car, that privatecar, that's all I had.
And I sat in this room on thefirst day when I was on my own
(09:59):
uh after I was fired.
Thought, goodness, what am Igoing to do?
I'd always had people supportingme, like secretaries and
everybody running aroundhelping, sales team and all the
rest of it.
It's a very lonely feeling whenyou're sitting down in the
basement of your house.
No money and no prospects and noproducts.
What do you do?
What I do need is is a computer,I think, because they were brand
(10:21):
new.
William had just brought thefirst PC back from America,
didn't you?
Put it in in my hand luggage.
It was a big box.
Of course, by the way, it's abit of a diversion.
We were not allowed to buy a PC.
And we had to go to Washingtonand get approval to export it to
New Zealand.
Can you imagine that?
SPEAKER_02 (10:38):
I can kind of through trying to apply for a
new laptop through IT thesedays.
Maybe a different scale, butyeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:48):
I had to start in this room with nothing.
Oh gosh, I'll I'll need a pencilsharpener, I'll need a rule, you
know.
What do you do?
Rank wheels?
What no?
You use a ball point?
I didn't know anything.
Because it was all done for me.
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
So, Philip, how did you get the Pioneer brand back?
You know, Yates is Oh.
SPEAKER_04 (11:04):
Well, I'd of course I'd solicited the Pioneer brand
and successfully got it started.
By then I'd made it my businessto get to know the hierarchy
pioneer.
And when I was fired from Yates,it didn't take them long to say
we don't want to deal with Yatesthere anymore.
They're not the Yates company wew were dealing with.
We'd like you to take it on.
Would you be interested?
Tom Urban, the chairman, phonedme and he said, just been
(11:25):
thinking about it.
Would you be interested in doingit yourself?
Well, I said, let me think itover.
Of course I'd I'd alreadydecided that in a nanosecond
that was the right thing to Ididn't want to say then or
there.
I phoned him back the the nextmorning and said, Tom, it's a
great offer.
I'm privileged to do it.
I I will do it.
Thank you very much.
And that's how it started.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
Then you looked to bring that seed in from Pioneer
in the States?
We weren't allowed to buy itfrom the States.
Right.
Quarantine was very, very tight.
If we moved to the setting up ofGizbon, you talked about it was
to deliver some quality seed.
And but why did you chooseGizbon?
SPEAKER_04 (11:59):
I chose Gisbon because Gizbon had a long
history of arable farming, asunny area which you need for
producing quality seed, good,deep arable soils, generally
seemed a good place.
SPEAKER_02 (12:10):
How have those relationships developed over the
years and how have they boundstrength to the business?
SPEAKER_03 (12:16):
Our seed growers are obviously a critical part of the
business.
We've partnered with a number ofseed growers over in the Poverty
Bay Gisbon area for decades,ever since the plant was first
built, and some of those growershave been with us right from the
start.
And growing and producinghigh-quality hybrid seed is very
much a specialist farmingactivity.
(12:37):
And so we have worked andpartnered with those growers
through the years to improve theyield and the quality and the
efficiency of how we go aboutgrowing the seed crops out in
the field, harvesting it uhsafely and getting it into the
plant and treating it with therequisite care and finesse right
through the whole processing,end up with the high-quality
(12:58):
seed that we put in the in thebag and deliver to farmers
today.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
We've been really fortunate too with the crew in
Gisbon, too, and you know,permanent staff and right the
way through to a whole heap ofcasuals that have played a
really important role.
SPEAKER_03 (13:10):
Absolutely.
Picking up on Rawan's point, ourseed production team in Gisbon,
again, are the really the engineroom of the business.
And many of those that are stillwith us today have been there
from the outset.
So there's a huge amount ofknowledge and experience and
passion and commitment withinthe crew down there.
As a business, uh, we're blessedand and very well served with
(13:34):
the caliber and capability ofthe people we've got in Gisbon
and of course elsewhere aroundthe business as well.
The sales team of which you're avalued member, Matt.
We've got a fantastic team rightaround the country in various
roles, selling and providingtechnical knowledge and support
to growers directly, but alsoworking with our merchant
(13:54):
partners to help train and raisetheir knowledge and experience
to support farmers that areusing and feeding maize.
And again, that's a key part ofyour role in the business, is
working with them.
And of course, contractors.
So we very much see the businessin our role, right from the seed
production where we contractwith the seed growers in Gisbon,
right through to farmers thatare planting and growing pioneer
(14:17):
maize all around the country.
And everyone else in theindustry that we work alongside
of and who support us and wesupport them.
It's very much an ecosystem andit's very much a supportive and
and coordinated industry.
So it's very special and beenwonderful to be part of that
journey and evolution to see theindustry develop over the
decades.
SPEAKER_02 (14:38):
And heavily uh based on relationships.
It was that relationship whenyou first turned up to pioneer
that fostered this, and now it'sbeen relationship upon
relationship that's that's gotyou to current day.
SPEAKER_04 (14:50):
Well, life is basically relationships, isn't
it?
You have a relationship withyour wife and your children and
the rest of your family,neighbours.
It's all relationships.
SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
Coming to family, how does it make you feel to
have Will part of the familybusiness and taking that Yates
seed business into the next?
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
It's a great deal of security and satisfaction.
I couldn't have a son with moreof the attributes I'd want, the
job he's got.
He's got a big responsibility.
We've got hundreds of staff,haven't we, Will?
And every one of them depends onthe success of the business, and
you're holding it together andmaking the right decisions at
the right time.
Sound, safe decisions so muchdepends on you and the staff
(15:28):
picking up on policy.
SPEAKER_03 (15:30):
Well, those are kind comments, Dad, but you know, to
your point, a lot of staff inthe business here in New Zealand
and in Australia on the fieldthrough the various facilities
we've got, through themanagement team and the board
who support me and and thesenior executive team, uh, we're
again we're very lucky andblessed with the caliber and
commitment and passion ofeverybody that we have in the
(15:52):
business.
So it really very much is a teameffort.
Business is very much built andreliant on the strength of the
relationships that we have withour farming customers, but
everybody else that's in theindustry and in the business.
And those relationships, some ofthem go back multiple
generations.
It's not uncommon for me to betalking with farmer customers
who remember uh their dadtalking about dealing with
(16:13):
Philip's father, my grandfather.
So uh multi-generationalrelationships which run deep and
are very much the foundation ofthe business.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
And how do you feel about taking on that legacy and
building on that?
SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
Well, it's certainly a great privilege and a
challenge, but it's also veryfulfilling and rewarding.
I think Rawan used the wordbefore overwhelming.
Sometimes it can feel a littlebit like that.
You know, we've certainly beenthrough a lot of challenges over
the years, but we've putshoulder to the wheel and
focused our minds and thecollective effort and worked
through those challenges andcome through them, survived, and
(16:47):
I think come out stronger andbetter as a business.
So it certainly hasn't beenalways a smooth and linear
journey, Ray, has it?
It's been a very much uh anexciting one, and ultimately I
think for everybody involved inthe business, the family, the
business, the staff, ourcustomers and the wider
industry, I think it's somethingthat everybody is extremely
passionate about.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
So, um Philip, just flicking, I guess, back in time
when when Yates first uh startedrepresenting Pioneer in New
Zealand, and then genetictechnology subsequently, it was
a relatively small grain market.
What made growers change fromthe existing brand to Pioneer?
SPEAKER_04 (17:23):
Ray, you should know that better than me.
I don't know why you're askingthe question, because you're the
main reason it happened.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Well, that was in the silage days, but look
flicking back to grain, why didgrain growers plant pioneer
rather than the incumbenthybrid?
SPEAKER_04 (17:36):
Well, I'd have to say that the seed quality in
those early years was prettyindifferent.
We had a few setbacks, ofcourse, in the early days of
production ourselves, but Iquickly realized that seed
quality, physical seed quality,apart altogether from genetic
seed quality, was critical.
We spent a lot of time with theproduction agronomists from
Pioneer and other specialistsfinding out how to produce the
(17:59):
best seed and to do itconsistently.
And I can remember Tom Urbansaying to me, well, our
business, particularly inWestern Europe, is not so much
grain.
In many countries, it's silage.
I pricked up on that and that'swhere it went from there.
We had two million people inthat stage, three million cows,
I think.
One cow eats a lot more maizethan one person.
So the maths were quite good togo into silage.
SPEAKER_02 (18:21):
And so, Ray, what did the dairy industry look like
at that stage?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
It was predominantly pasture-based, and dairy farmers
they ran short of feed becausethe grass didn't grow because it
was too wet or too cold or toodry.
They were faced with eitherbuying dairy meal, which
relatively speaking was actuallyquite expensive even back then.
But there'd been some bigadvancements in terms of pasture
species and uh the work ArnoldBrand had done on rotational
(18:47):
grazing, but they'd kind ofreached really a feed barrier.
You know, the dairy farmersactually were eating as much
feed as what they were growing,stocking rates were increasing,
we were seeing quite a bit ofconversion of sheep and beef
cattle to dairy dairy land, andso it was very much a growth
industry, but just underpinnedby this shortage of feed,
really.
And so when I started in 1991,the leading farmers were feeding
(19:10):
maize silage, but there werealso a whole heap of people that
were predominantlypasture-based.
And I think the dairy industryinfluencers at that time kind of
felt that any deviation from apasture-only system was kind of
a hand cart to hell.
They just felt that it was goingto erode profitability, and it
was challenging in those earlyyears.
(19:31):
It was a little like pushingwater uphill with a broom until
the very top farmers started toshare their profitability
figures.
And we also um did some trialwork at Wymati West
demonstration farm in Taranaki.
Yes.
Farmers had to actually changetheir system, carve earlier,
milk longer.
More than just adopting maize,they had to kind of alter their
(19:52):
system to fit it in.
And it just took some time forreally for us and for the
industry to learn how tomaximize the benefits out of the
maize silage.
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
Philip had tasked you with the job of promoting
maize silage into these dairyfarms.
How did you go about doing so?
SPEAKER_01 (20:07):
We started off really with just a huge amount
of farmer meetings, and maizewas kind of new on the block,
and people were interested init, but didn't know anything
really about growing the crop,harvesting it and storing it and
feeding it.
And so we did farmer meetings,meetings with merchants,
meetings with contractors, andit was nothing over the spring
period to run 50 to 100 meetingsand through the Waikaddo,
(20:32):
Taranaki, Bay of Plenty, Hawke'sBay, right the way through the
Lower North Island, most of theupper South Island as well.
And will you started as an areamanager in the South Island,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
I did, I did.
And unfortunately, in thosedays, we didn't have the hybrids
of a maturity that were wellsuited to being grown in the in
the South Island.
SPEAKER_02 (20:51):
So you got tasked with a real hard job.
SPEAKER_04 (20:53):
With the real hard job, but yeah, impossible job.
SPEAKER_03 (20:56):
I used to literally drive from Auckland to
Invercargill and visit farmersand hand harvesting trials in
those days.
It was a real a real challenge.
We stuck with it and slowly butsurely we found the right
hybrids and maturities.
Canterbury uh maize is a key andprobably the leading
supplementary feed in the NorthIsland farming systems for many
(21:18):
years.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
We're just following in your footsteps down there at
the moment.
As you say, a staple for manydairy farms.
SPEAKER_04 (21:25):
You never did a silage trial?
No.
Too busy doing the creditcontrol.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
The harvesting of silage trials was pretty
shocking, you know, right intothe middle of the crop with a
machete and cut these plants andthen cart them out to the side
and lay them on a tripod thing.
So it was hot and heavy, and thepollen all kind of got down your
shirt and made you itch, and itwasn't a lot of fun, was it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
It was hard yakka.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
It was hard yakka.
I suppose that trial program'sstill in place and and obviously
growing with a few more modcons, I suppose, as well.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (21:56):
You know, back in the early days of the business,
there was so few of us, in manyrespects, we didn't actually
know what we were doing.
So we were learning by by trialand error and share blood,
sweat, and tears.
And, you know, there was a lotof all of those expended by
those of us that were in thebusiness in those early days,
three of whom are sitting herealongside of you, Matt.
But we also wore many hats.
I mean, I would drive, as Imentioned, from here to to
(22:18):
Invercargle and visiting farmersand planting and harvesting
trials all the way back andending up back in Auckland in my
office next door there, and gofrom doing that to writing and
coordinating the production ofthe annual catalogue and getting
it in envelopes and down to thepost office and then going down
to the Waikato and putting upfield signs.
And so there was there was sortof only about four or five of us
(22:39):
in a business ray, wasn't there?
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I was felt always reallylucky because we always had good
camaraderie, people that wereprepared to work together.
But Will's right.
I was talking to somebody theother day about doing the first
silage field days, and now we dothem, and we've got a marketing
department that puts togetherall of the promotions, and we've
got technical specialists andpeople in research that talk.
Back in those early days, youhad to do everything.
(23:00):
You you you thought about it,pulled together the invites and
things, and you mailed them.
You were up in the eveningstuffing pamphlets into folders
that was the sort of thetechnical how to grow maize, and
then on the actual day, you weredoing everything from cooking
the sausages, doing thepresentations, and picking up
the portaloo.
SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
Rowan, I'd like to explore what the practices
looked like in the dairy marketback when you started and how
that's evolved or changed to thecurrent day.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
So when I started, dairy systems were very
pasture-based, and slowly overtime, more and more farmers
adopted maize silage and reallysaw the benefits of having a
buffer of stored feed on farmthat they could feed to extend
lactation, to increase uhstocking rates, to lift per cow
production, fill the feed gapsduring the season.
So over time we've just seenthis transition, this gradual
(23:50):
transition of dairy farmsystems.
And while our systems are stillcapitalizing on a homegrown
pasture that's of a very goodquality, they're also using
homegrown or purchased in maizesidage to supplement that.
And so we've really seen atransition.
We've also seen maize kind of gofrom the North Island further
south with the introduction ofnew shorter maturity hybrids
(24:13):
that are high yielding, andthat's been an exciting thing to
see as well.
SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
And I remember you telling me once around the
actual use.
So we see a lot of feed pads andinfrastructure evolve now,
talking about feeding up on allsorts to reduce the wastage.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Yeah, so people started feeding maize in the
paddock, and then we sawinnovative people using old
carpets, old conveyor belting.
Uh, we went through a systemwhere we had a lot of feed pads
on the exit race to cow sheds,but the dairy industry and the
environmental rigs evolved tothe point that now feed pads
look extremely different fromwhat they used to.
(24:46):
At the high end, we've got a fewpeople that have invested in
wintering structures and barnsand feed pads and even a few
farms where cows are indoor allyear round.
Um so we've got a real range.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Let's focus in a little bit more on the business
and and what what are some ofthe key focuses for the company
now, Will?
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Look, I think some things haven't changed in some
respects.
Ensuring that we're alwaysproducing and delivering to
farmers the highest quality seedhas always been a focus.
That will always be the case.
I think increasingly goingforward, uh, the opportunity for
us as a business and for theindustry and farmers in
particular is to see maize as anincreasingly important and
(25:26):
valuable tool in mitigating someof the environmental effects of
intensive farming.
And some of the research we'vebeen doing in recent years has
shown that maize is a reallyimportant key tool to help soak
up nutrient that's fallen belowthe rooting zone of shallower
rooted pasture and foragespecies.
Matt, one thing I wanted totouch on is the privilege that
(25:50):
Cortever and pioneer people havebestowed on us as a family and
business to represent them inthis part of the world.
And Philip and I in particularhave a lot of close
relationships, close friendshipsindeed, that go back decades
with a lot of the senior peopleand the founding families of the
pioneer business in the US thathave been developed and
cherished and nourished over theyears.
(26:12):
And so for me and us as afamily, I think uh we're very
lucky and blessed to have theprivilege and responsibility of
representing the pioneer brandin this part of the world, both
here and in Australia.
SPEAKER_04 (26:23):
Absolutely.
Well, sadly, many of them are nolonger with us.
SPEAKER_03 (26:26):
No, that's true.
But there's a new generation ofleaders and friends I've grown
up with in my time with Pioneer,and those relationships uh and
networks remain strong.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Raywin, you you've tapped in to understand that,
not necessarily the canolderpart, but the dairy market using
the strengths from the businessgrowth here.
What does the market look likeover there for Pioneer?
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Oh look, I think it's exciting times for Pioneer
because both in Australia, inNew Zealand and globally, we've
just got some excellent geneticsand products, and we've also got
a lot of knowledge on feedingcows and how to incorporate
maize into dairy farm systems.
And I think there's a lot ofopportunity because uh
Australian farmers are comingunder pressure with climate
(27:08):
change and are increasinglylooking to fill feed deficits,
and and maize silage provides areliable supply of high-quality
feed, more nutrient dense andhas got better quality
parameters than some of thetraditional forages that dairy
farmers buy when they're shortof feed.
SPEAKER_03 (27:25):
Another interesting and important aspect of the
business is our export business.
We produce hybrid maize andcanola seed for different
pioneer entities and marketselsewhere around the world.
For example, we produce all ofthe hybrid maize seed that is
sold by the pioneer business inJapan, and most of, if not all,
of the same which is sold intoKorea.
(27:45):
And from time to time we'resending in pioneer seed grown in
Gizbon to other northernhemisphere markets.
And a recent development is weentered into an agreement with
Pioneer to produce hybrid canolaseed for the African market as
well.
So that's an important andinteresting aspect of the
business going for us, too.
SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
Yeah, it was initiated or it comes back to
the quality seed that has beenproduced through those processes
and people in Gizbon.
SPEAKER_03 (28:09):
And the relationships that we have with
Pioneer that they trust us toproduce reliably and
consistently the quality andvolume of seed that they they
look to us to do so.
SPEAKER_02 (28:18):
So, Philip, I know you're pretty keen to see the
data out of our new hybrids aswell every year.
Absolutely.
Well, that's been a big focus aswell for the business in terms
of making hybrid advancements,is bringing greater yields,
increased disease resistance.
That's still a major focus forthe business.
SPEAKER_03 (28:34):
Absolutely.
It's very much at the core ofwho and what we are as a as a
hybrid maze business is toconstantly look and evaluate the
latest genetics that pioneerbreeders elsewhere around the
world are making available tous.
And every year we bring inliterally dozens, multiple
dozens of new products fromNorth America and Europe in
(28:55):
particular, but sometimes fromother markets, Japan, for
example, and and Australia, andtrial those products here
against the current commerciallineup of pioneer hybrids and
competitor hybrids.
And the purpose and mission ofthat effort and investment is to
identify ever-improved hybridsthat we can then look to
commercialize and make availableto farmers.
(29:16):
And Matt, it's obviously aboutimproving and increasing the
yield of those crops, but alsothe resilience and reliability
of them and what we're seeing asincreasingly challenging growing
environments with some of theweather events that we're
experiencing these days as a asa consequence of climate change.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
And on that, Ray, uh in terms of soil conservation,
but greenhouse gases has been achanging landscape for the
business as well.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Absolutely.
Twenty years ago, we didn'tthink about things like nitrogen
leaching, greenhouse gases, orsoil conservation methods, and
those are all things now thatare really at the forefront of
our research.
We're looking at differenttillage systems.
We've uh looked at greenhousegas losses from maize systems
and how to actually influenceand reduce those.
And as Will was talking aboutbefore, a large amount of work
(30:03):
and a big investment in nitrogenleaching research to look at how
much nitrogen is being lostunder maize systems.
And it's really pleasing to seejust environmentally how well
the crop stacks up.
Alongside the environmentalresearch, one of the things
that's been really exciting tosee is the investment in
equipment in the whole researchprogram.
(30:23):
Very few trials are now done theold way with hand cuts and
things, choppers with NIR onboard that's analysing feed
value on the go.
Also with grain, you know, thesmall plot impact trialling
program and trial combine.
So we've really seen somemassive investment, which has
made the job easier and alsohelped improve just the number
(30:43):
of trials and the accuracy.
SPEAKER_03 (30:45):
And I think picking up on Raywin's point probably
also speaks to the philosophyand approach we bring to the
business in that we have a verylong view of how we operate and
what we do for the industry andour customers and as a business.
And we do invest heavily inequipment and resources and
people and our capability andthe effort that we put into what
(31:07):
I would describe a lot of whatwe do as industry good research
as much as evaluating andadvancing new products very much
speaks to who and how we are andoperate as a family business.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
It's very interesting that you use the
term a long look approachbecause that's come through from
pioneer themselves.
And so that synergy is stillplaying out throughout the
business.
SPEAKER_03 (31:27):
Absolutely.
The long look was pioneerleaders in the US in the 50s,
and they sat down and framed upfour key pillars of how they uh
saw they wanted the business tooperate around the world, and
we've adapted and adopted thosefour philosophies here in New
Zealand and Australia as well,and it very much guides and
determines how we think aboutand operate as a business.
SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
You're very much committed to the enhancing the
future of New Zealandagriculture.
What do you see the futurelooking like for the business in
the immediate but then out tothe longer term?
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
The big picture for Australasian agriculture is
bright.
Obviously, the world'spopulation is growing.
In Australia and New Zealand,we've got advanced farming
systems, sophisticated farmingprocesses and means of farming.
We've got irrigation, we've gotgenerally helpful climate for
growing good crops.
Obviously, Australia and NewZealand produce and export much
(32:21):
of what they they grow ascountries and agricultural
industries.
So the countries, the economies,and the business have a very
bright and positive futureahead.
Having said that, we're in veryinteresting and challenging
times, both global, politicaland economic and climate
perspective.
So the future is bright, butit's not going to be without its
(32:41):
uh challenges, and it comes backto the research that we put into
helping farmers evolve anddevelop their farming systems
and how they grow their crops tobest effect going forward.
SPEAKER_02 (32:52):
Philip, this is your journey.
What do you see the futurelooking like?
SPEAKER_04 (32:56):
Well, I I think the basic fundamentals that we
started out hold good today.
Will's just said that.
First thing's integrity.
We don't make claims about ourproducts that we can't back with
scientific facts.
We don't tell farmers that thisis the best product when it may
not be.
I think if we stay with thoseethical approaches, the business
will always prosper.
(33:16):
You've got to have the bestproduct and demonstrate.
And New Zealand's doing that.
That's why we've got theseexport markets.
SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Fascinating.
Thank you very much for sharingsome special memories and the
journey and the growth of notonly the Yates family business
but genetic technologies.
So thank you very much forsharing your wonderful stories.
SPEAKER_04 (33:33):
Thanks, Matt.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
Matt, it's been great chatting with you.
Thank you.
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
I have the pleasure of sitting down with Philip
Yates, the founder of GeneticTechnologies, Will Yates,
Managing Director of GeneticTechnologies, and Raymond
Densley, one of the earlyemployments, and we'll get into
some of the uniqueness aroundhow that came about.
I can't wait to just sit backand listen as you reminis and
talk about how the company hasgot to where it is today.
(00:38):
Philip, you've had such anincredible legacy, which started
with your involvement in thefamily business at the age of
17.
You introduced the Pioneer maizebrand to New Zealand 50 years
ago and have seen somesignificant changes in the dairy
and arable industries.
SPEAKER_04 (00:55):
I feel a great deal of satisfaction, of course, to
see that the Pioneer brand'sbeen accepted by farmers.
I was going to say readily.
It wasn't ready at the beginningbecause pioneer was unknown.
We had to get the brand known.
But I feel very proud of thefact that we've got a wonderful
product, we've got the world'sfinest genetics, and I think we
produce very fine quality seedin New Zealand.
So you put top genetics into topseed, you've got a great
(01:18):
product, and the farmers loveit.
SPEAKER_02 (01:20):
Well, you've been working alongside Philip for
many years now, your dad, andleading the business, and have
recently expanded intoAustralia.
How does it feel being a part ofthat evolution?
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Well, it's certainly had its challenges along the
way.
We've also had a lot of fun andexcitement, haven't we, Ray and
Philip, over the years?
Most importantly, that it's beenfulfilling and rewarding to see,
firstly, the growth in the NewZealand maize market,
increasingly important role atmaize and maize silage in the
dairy industry has occurred overthe last several decades.
And probably a highlight for mewas our move to acquire the
(01:54):
pioneer business in Australiaabout eight years ago, which
really broadened and diversifiedour product range in the markets
in which we operate acrossAustralia and New Zealand.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
And and Raewin, you've been a part of that
journey with GTL for near on 30years as well.
And you helped that integrationof main silage into New Zealand.
What's a memory that sticks outfor you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
This very room, I had my first um interview, and I
can remember coming in andsitting on the couch and being
grilled by Philip, who wasasking a whole heap of uh
questions about my capabilitiesand things.
It was an interesting startbecause I was a 23-year-old
graduate entering into a verymale-dominated arable world and
(02:35):
trying to really change the waythat farmers farmed.
It was a very pastoral-basedfarming system back then.
You know, we've seen a bigtransition of how farmers feed
cows, and it's been exciting tobe part of that journey, but
kind of quite daunting at timesas well.
SPEAKER_02 (02:50):
We sit here kind of 50 years on from those early
days.
I know it hasn't always beensmooth sailing.
Sure it hasn't.
Can you share the moment whenthat felt so far away?
SPEAKER_04 (03:00):
Of course, we've had lots of ups and downs, which the
market probably knew all aboutit at the time.
We imported some seed fromFrance because uh we'd had a
shortfall in production.
We wanted the seed badly, andthe seed arrived on a ship, was
unloaded in Calcutta and sat onthe dock there for some weeks,
finally loaded back on anothership and arrived here.
We didn't waste any timeretesting it, which was a big
(03:21):
mistake.
We shot it straight out to themarket.
Heat and humidity in Calcuttahad destroyed the seed.
We didn't find that untilfarmers started screaming at us
it wasn't growing.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
It was kind of scattered because I guess those
outside bags had taken thebrunt, and some of the bags that
were probably in the middle ofthe pallets or in the middle of
the container weren't so bad.
SPEAKER_04 (03:39):
We realized that New Zealand produced seed would be
the best, would have control ofthe quality, but I couldn't
afford to build a plant, and itwas going to cost millions to
build a plant to produce seed.
Where do you get that sort ofmoney from?
Finally, I realized that we'reuh up against something that
just wasn't gonna work.
So I I got on a plane, went toDes Moines, Iowa, and by this
time I'd become personal friendswith Tom Urban, who was chairman
(04:00):
of Pioneer, wonderful man.
And I said, Tom, we're on alosing streak here.
We can't import seed reliablyfrom other countries and sell it
in New Zealand safely.
He said, Well, you've got toproduce it in New Zealand.
I said, Well, I'm sure we do.
Good idea.
But what am I gonna do it with?
Well, he said, build a plant.
Well, that's a good idea too.
That's gonna cost millions.
Where am I gonna get that sortof money from?
(04:22):
He said, we'll lend it to you.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
And that was the start of what is Gisbon now.
SPEAKER_03 (04:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so well, were you around atthose early stages?
I wasn't around when the plantwas being built.
And in fact, I was in the US atthe time doing a an internship
with Pioneer.
I was there for I think uh abouttwo and a half years, which was
a fantastic experience and movedthrough different areas and
divisions of the business fromproduction and marketing and
(04:49):
what they called internationaloperations at the time, which
was headquarters uh interactionwith its businesses all around
the world.
So that was a wonderfulexperience.
Not the traditional OE, Isuppose.
No, not quite the traditionalOE.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
There was a bit of the traditional OE thrown in
there, though, wasn't there?
SPEAKER_03 (05:04):
Well, I think Raewin, this is this is being
filmed.
There was a an internationalconference on maize silage and
animal nutrition that Philipsent Raywin up to, and she and I
caught up there.
In fact, I think I went to thesame conference tonight.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
We met.
We met up there for the firsttime.
Was that the first time we met?
It was.
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
If I rewind back the clock 50 years, Philip, I recall
you telling me that whilst youwere leading the Yates family
seed business, you saw anarticle on hybrid wheat.
SPEAKER_04 (05:34):
Yates was in the seed business, but it was a lot
of other things.
A company with 2,000 staff atthat point.
We had made a few acquisitions.
We were selling everything fromNissan cars to wide range of
things.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
Diversification.
SPEAKER_04 (05:45):
Yes.
It was a very profitablecompany, growing rapidly.
We'd grown from 150 staff when Ijoined it.
When I left it, we had 2,000staff.
So it was a significant company.
I'd been there from thebeginning of my working years.
The seed business was part ofit.
What I had learned is how tohandle a range of products.
We had pansy seed and carrotseed and a bit of ryegrass seed.
(06:07):
That was it.
I was on a 10-day holiday out atGreat Barrier on my sailboat.
We had one of these tropicalcyclones come down, and we had
two anchors out, a lot of noisegoing on, the anchor stranding
on the chain.
Sitting down in the cabin, therain was peeling down, the wind
was blowing.
One of the other guys on theboat had a pile of magazines,
amongst which was the BusinessWeek magazine for America.
(06:28):
This particular copy had anarticle on hybrid wheat, cover
story.
Ooh, wow.
That sounds interesting.
It mentioned three or fourcompanies.
It was DeCalb and Pioneer, Funk.
Northrop King.
Northrop King.
I thought, what I've got to dois get alongside one of these
companies and learn somethingabout this and maybe represent
them in New Zealand, which isexactly what I did.
I wrote to them a very niceletter and didn't hear a word.
(06:50):
A month goes by now.
No response.
I sent them a cable.
Emails, nothing like that.
It was a cable.
Still no response.
Finally, I got from the AucklandPost Office the phone numbers of
these companies.
And so how did you come aboutPioneer then?
That company was the second ofthe three I was going to visit.
We drove back into the in intothe uh headquarters of Pioneer.
(07:12):
I didn't know anything aboutPioneer, but I got a very, very
warm, polite, friendlyreception.
And during the course of theday, I found out a lot about
Pioneer.
First off, they were a recentlylisted public company.
Secondly, they were a familycompany that had just floated to
be public.
They were like Yates.
They had the same sort ofattitude to business that Yates
(07:33):
had.
I liked them right from the dayone.
More inquiries, and I found outthat in the in the cornseed
business, which the maze theycalled corn there, they were the
market leaders.
Eventually I had afternooncoffee with the with the
chairman, Wayne Skidmore, whowas just approaching retirement.
What an absolute gentleman hewas, a man probably late 60s.
And he said, Tell us more aboutyour business.
(07:55):
I said, Well, Mr.
Skidmore, it's a bit like yourcompany.
He said, Don't call me Mr.
Skidmore.
My name's Wayne.
Oh, thank you, Wayne.
I thought we're making goodprogress here.
And it went on like this duringthe day.
And I told him all I could whatI wanted to do, but I didn't
know what.
He said, Why don't you inquireabout hybrid wheat?
Why don't you get interested incorn?
I said, Well, there's no corn inNew Zealand.
(08:16):
He said, We wondered why you'dcome to see us, really.
We're basically a corn seedcompany.
We're trying to breed hybridwheat.
Nobody's got hybrid wheat.
It hasn't been developed yet ona commercial scale.
It's not an economical crop toproduce, but we'd love to talk
to you a bit more about corn ifyou want to talk to us about
corn.
I said, Well, let's do that, butlet's talk about corn.
(08:37):
And then we took it from there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:38):
And so what were the advantages of pioneer in
bringing that maize into the NewZealand market?
SPEAKER_04 (08:45):
It was just my my bubbling enthusiasm that uh
youthful enthusiasm.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
And to add to your your wider profile, because it
was still under Yates.
Yeah, well, we had I thinksomething like 15,000 stock
items.
And so if we if we start towander a bit further forward in
1985, Equity Corp came and tookcontrol of the company uh via a
share market raid.
Uh and you were in your early50s and found yourself dismissed
(09:09):
from the Yates family business.
Yep.
How did that make you feel?
SPEAKER_04 (09:13):
I'd been brought up to believe that the family
company was part of the familyheritage.
And to think that it was goingto be lost on my watch was a
tremendous blow.
The seed businesses and thebusiness we're running, it
wasn't all seeds, as I've toldyou, was all I knew.
In those days, the then currentgovernment had the marginal
income tax was 66%.
Well, on the salary we're at and66% income tax.
(09:35):
You couldn't accumulate anycapital.
I had a young family that had tobe supported with no job and no
money and no prospects.
I was actually si um 57.
How did you set up a new companyin in that journey?
With great difficulty.
First of all, I had no money, nooffice.
I had my own car, that privatecar, that's all I had.
And I sat in this room on thefirst day when I was on my own
(09:59):
uh after I was fired.
Thought, goodness, what am Igoing to do?
I'd always had people supportingme, like secretaries and
everybody running aroundhelping, sales team and all the
rest of it.
It's a very lonely feeling whenyou're sitting down in the
basement of your house.
No money and no prospects and noproducts.
What do you do?
What I do need is is a computer,I think, because they were brand
(10:21):
new.
William had just brought thefirst PC back from America,
didn't you?
Put it in in my hand luggage.
It was a big box.
Of course, by the way, it's abit of a diversion.
We were not allowed to buy a PC.
And we had to go to Washingtonand get approval to export it to
New Zealand.
Can you imagine that?
SPEAKER_02 (10:38):
I can kind of through trying to apply for a
new laptop through IT thesedays.
Maybe a different scale, butyeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:48):
I had to start in this room with nothing.
Oh gosh, I'll I'll need a pencilsharpener, I'll need a rule, you
know.
What do you do?
Rank wheels?
What no?
You use a ball point?
I didn't know anything.
Because it was all done for me.
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
So, Philip, how did you get the Pioneer brand back?
You know, Yates is Oh.
SPEAKER_04 (11:04):
Well, I'd of course I'd solicited the Pioneer brand
and successfully got it started.
By then I'd made it my businessto get to know the hierarchy
pioneer.
And when I was fired from Yates,it didn't take them long to say
we don't want to deal with Yatesthere anymore.
They're not the Yates company wew were dealing with.
We'd like you to take it on.
Would you be interested?
Tom Urban, the chairman, phonedme and he said, just been
(11:25):
thinking about it.
Would you be interested in doingit yourself?
Well, I said, let me think itover.
Of course I'd I'd alreadydecided that in a nanosecond
that was the right thing to Ididn't want to say then or
there.
I phoned him back the the nextmorning and said, Tom, it's a
great offer.
I'm privileged to do it.
I I will do it.
Thank you very much.
And that's how it started.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
Then you looked to bring that seed in from Pioneer
in the States?
We weren't allowed to buy itfrom the States.
Right.
Quarantine was very, very tight.
If we moved to the setting up ofGizbon, you talked about it was
to deliver some quality seed.
And but why did you chooseGizbon?
SPEAKER_04 (11:59):
I chose Gisbon because Gizbon had a long
history of arable farming, asunny area which you need for
producing quality seed, good,deep arable soils, generally
seemed a good place.
SPEAKER_02 (12:10):
How have those relationships developed over the
years and how have they boundstrength to the business?
SPEAKER_03 (12:16):
Our seed growers are obviously a critical part of the
business.
We've partnered with a number ofseed growers over in the Poverty
Bay Gisbon area for decades,ever since the plant was first
built, and some of those growershave been with us right from the
start.
And growing and producinghigh-quality hybrid seed is very
much a specialist farmingactivity.
(12:37):
And so we have worked andpartnered with those growers
through the years to improve theyield and the quality and the
efficiency of how we go aboutgrowing the seed crops out in
the field, harvesting it uhsafely and getting it into the
plant and treating it with therequisite care and finesse right
through the whole processing,end up with the high-quality
(12:58):
seed that we put in the in thebag and deliver to farmers
today.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
We've been really fortunate too with the crew in
Gisbon, too, and you know,permanent staff and right the
way through to a whole heap ofcasuals that have played a
really important role.
SPEAKER_03 (13:10):
Absolutely.
Picking up on Rawan's point, ourseed production team in Gisbon,
again, are the really the engineroom of the business.
And many of those that are stillwith us today have been there
from the outset.
So there's a huge amount ofknowledge and experience and
passion and commitment withinthe crew down there.
As a business, uh, we're blessedand and very well served with
(13:34):
the caliber and capability ofthe people we've got in Gisbon
and of course elsewhere aroundthe business as well.
The sales team of which you're avalued member, Matt.
We've got a fantastic team rightaround the country in various
roles, selling and providingtechnical knowledge and support
to growers directly, but alsoworking with our merchant
(13:54):
partners to help train and raisetheir knowledge and experience
to support farmers that areusing and feeding maize.
And again, that's a key part ofyour role in the business, is
working with them.
And of course, contractors.
So we very much see the businessin our role, right from the seed
production where we contractwith the seed growers in Gisbon,
right through to farmers thatare planting and growing pioneer
(14:17):
maize all around the country.
And everyone else in theindustry that we work alongside
of and who support us and wesupport them.
It's very much an ecosystem andit's very much a supportive and
and coordinated industry.
So it's very special and beenwonderful to be part of that
journey and evolution to see theindustry develop over the
decades.
SPEAKER_02 (14:38):
And heavily uh based on relationships.
It was that relationship whenyou first turned up to pioneer
that fostered this, and now it'sbeen relationship upon
relationship that's that's gotyou to current day.
SPEAKER_04 (14:50):
Well, life is basically relationships, isn't
it?
You have a relationship withyour wife and your children and
the rest of your family,neighbours.
It's all relationships.
SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
Coming to family, how does it make you feel to
have Will part of the familybusiness and taking that Yates
seed business into the next?
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
It's a great deal of security and satisfaction.
I couldn't have a son with moreof the attributes I'd want, the
job he's got.
He's got a big responsibility.
We've got hundreds of staff,haven't we, Will?
And every one of them depends onthe success of the business, and
you're holding it together andmaking the right decisions at
the right time.
Sound, safe decisions so muchdepends on you and the staff
(15:28):
picking up on policy.
SPEAKER_03 (15:30):
Well, those are kind comments, Dad, but you know, to
your point, a lot of staff inthe business here in New Zealand
and in Australia on the fieldthrough the various facilities
we've got, through themanagement team and the board
who support me and and thesenior executive team, uh, we're
again we're very lucky andblessed with the caliber and
commitment and passion ofeverybody that we have in the
(15:52):
business.
So it really very much is a teameffort.
Business is very much built andreliant on the strength of the
relationships that we have withour farming customers, but
everybody else that's in theindustry and in the business.
And those relationships, some ofthem go back multiple
generations.
It's not uncommon for me to betalking with farmer customers
who remember uh their dadtalking about dealing with
(16:13):
Philip's father, my grandfather.
So uh multi-generationalrelationships which run deep and
are very much the foundation ofthe business.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
And how do you feel about taking on that legacy and
building on that?
SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
Well, it's certainly a great privilege and a
challenge, but it's also veryfulfilling and rewarding.
I think Rawan used the wordbefore overwhelming.
Sometimes it can feel a littlebit like that.
You know, we've certainly beenthrough a lot of challenges over
the years, but we've putshoulder to the wheel and
focused our minds and thecollective effort and worked
through those challenges andcome through them, survived, and
(16:47):
I think come out stronger andbetter as a business.
So it certainly hasn't beenalways a smooth and linear
journey, Ray, has it?
It's been a very much uh anexciting one, and ultimately I
think for everybody involved inthe business, the family, the
business, the staff, ourcustomers and the wider
industry, I think it's somethingthat everybody is extremely
passionate about.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
So, um Philip, just flicking, I guess, back in time
when when Yates first uh startedrepresenting Pioneer in New
Zealand, and then genetictechnology subsequently, it was
a relatively small grain market.
What made growers change fromthe existing brand to Pioneer?
SPEAKER_04 (17:23):
Ray, you should know that better than me.
I don't know why you're askingthe question, because you're the
main reason it happened.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Well, that was in the silage days, but look
flicking back to grain, why didgrain growers plant pioneer
rather than the incumbenthybrid?
SPEAKER_04 (17:36):
Well, I'd have to say that the seed quality in
those early years was prettyindifferent.
We had a few setbacks, ofcourse, in the early days of
production ourselves, but Iquickly realized that seed
quality, physical seed quality,apart altogether from genetic
seed quality, was critical.
We spent a lot of time with theproduction agronomists from
Pioneer and other specialistsfinding out how to produce the
(17:59):
best seed and to do itconsistently.
And I can remember Tom Urbansaying to me, well, our
business, particularly inWestern Europe, is not so much
grain.
In many countries, it's silage.
I pricked up on that and that'swhere it went from there.
We had two million people inthat stage, three million cows,
I think.
One cow eats a lot more maizethan one person.
So the maths were quite good togo into silage.
SPEAKER_02 (18:21):
And so, Ray, what did the dairy industry look like
at that stage?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
It was predominantly pasture-based, and dairy farmers
they ran short of feed becausethe grass didn't grow because it
was too wet or too cold or toodry.
They were faced with eitherbuying dairy meal, which
relatively speaking was actuallyquite expensive even back then.
But there'd been some bigadvancements in terms of pasture
species and uh the work ArnoldBrand had done on rotational
(18:47):
grazing, but they'd kind ofreached really a feed barrier.
You know, the dairy farmersactually were eating as much
feed as what they were growing,stocking rates were increasing,
we were seeing quite a bit ofconversion of sheep and beef
cattle to dairy dairy land, andso it was very much a growth
industry, but just underpinnedby this shortage of feed,
really.
And so when I started in 1991,the leading farmers were feeding
(19:10):
maize silage, but there werealso a whole heap of people that
were predominantlypasture-based.
And I think the dairy industryinfluencers at that time kind of
felt that any deviation from apasture-only system was kind of
a hand cart to hell.
They just felt that it was goingto erode profitability, and it
was challenging in those earlyyears.
(19:31):
It was a little like pushingwater uphill with a broom until
the very top farmers started toshare their profitability
figures.
And we also um did some trialwork at Wymati West
demonstration farm in Taranaki.
Yes.
Farmers had to actually changetheir system, carve earlier,
milk longer.
More than just adopting maize,they had to kind of alter their
(19:52):
system to fit it in.
And it just took some time forreally for us and for the
industry to learn how tomaximize the benefits out of the
maize silage.
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
Philip had tasked you with the job of promoting
maize silage into these dairyfarms.
How did you go about doing so?
SPEAKER_01 (20:07):
We started off really with just a huge amount
of farmer meetings, and maizewas kind of new on the block,
and people were interested init, but didn't know anything
really about growing the crop,harvesting it and storing it and
feeding it.
And so we did farmer meetings,meetings with merchants,
meetings with contractors, andit was nothing over the spring
period to run 50 to 100 meetingsand through the Waikaddo,
(20:32):
Taranaki, Bay of Plenty, Hawke'sBay, right the way through the
Lower North Island, most of theupper South Island as well.
And will you started as an areamanager in the South Island,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
I did, I did.
And unfortunately, in thosedays, we didn't have the hybrids
of a maturity that were wellsuited to being grown in the in
the South Island.
SPEAKER_02 (20:51):
So you got tasked with a real hard job.
SPEAKER_04 (20:53):
With the real hard job, but yeah, impossible job.
SPEAKER_03 (20:56):
I used to literally drive from Auckland to
Invercargill and visit farmersand hand harvesting trials in
those days.
It was a real a real challenge.
We stuck with it and slowly butsurely we found the right
hybrids and maturities.
Canterbury uh maize is a key andprobably the leading
supplementary feed in the NorthIsland farming systems for many
(21:18):
years.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
We're just following in your footsteps down there at
the moment.
As you say, a staple for manydairy farms.
SPEAKER_04 (21:25):
You never did a silage trial?
No.
Too busy doing the creditcontrol.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
The harvesting of silage trials was pretty
shocking, you know, right intothe middle of the crop with a
machete and cut these plants andthen cart them out to the side
and lay them on a tripod thing.
So it was hot and heavy, and thepollen all kind of got down your
shirt and made you itch, and itwasn't a lot of fun, was it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
It was hard yakka.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
It was hard yakka.
I suppose that trial program'sstill in place and and obviously
growing with a few more modcons, I suppose, as well.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (21:56):
You know, back in the early days of the business,
there was so few of us, in manyrespects, we didn't actually
know what we were doing.
So we were learning by by trialand error and share blood,
sweat, and tears.
And, you know, there was a lotof all of those expended by
those of us that were in thebusiness in those early days,
three of whom are sitting herealongside of you, Matt.
But we also wore many hats.
I mean, I would drive, as Imentioned, from here to to
(22:18):
Invercargle and visiting farmersand planting and harvesting
trials all the way back andending up back in Auckland in my
office next door there, and gofrom doing that to writing and
coordinating the production ofthe annual catalogue and getting
it in envelopes and down to thepost office and then going down
to the Waikato and putting upfield signs.
And so there was there was sortof only about four or five of us
(22:39):
in a business ray, wasn't there?
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I was felt always reallylucky because we always had good
camaraderie, people that wereprepared to work together.
But Will's right.
I was talking to somebody theother day about doing the first
silage field days, and now we dothem, and we've got a marketing
department that puts togetherall of the promotions, and we've
got technical specialists andpeople in research that talk.
Back in those early days, youhad to do everything.
(23:00):
You you you thought about it,pulled together the invites and
things, and you mailed them.
You were up in the eveningstuffing pamphlets into folders
that was the sort of thetechnical how to grow maize, and
then on the actual day, you weredoing everything from cooking
the sausages, doing thepresentations, and picking up
the portaloo.
SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
Rowan, I'd like to explore what the practices
looked like in the dairy marketback when you started and how
that's evolved or changed to thecurrent day.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
So when I started, dairy systems were very
pasture-based, and slowly overtime, more and more farmers
adopted maize silage and reallysaw the benefits of having a
buffer of stored feed on farmthat they could feed to extend
lactation, to increase uhstocking rates, to lift per cow
production, fill the feed gapsduring the season.
So over time we've just seenthis transition, this gradual
(23:50):
transition of dairy farmsystems.
And while our systems are stillcapitalizing on a homegrown
pasture that's of a very goodquality, they're also using
homegrown or purchased in maizesidage to supplement that.
And so we've really seen atransition.
We've also seen maize kind of gofrom the North Island further
south with the introduction ofnew shorter maturity hybrids
(24:13):
that are high yielding, andthat's been an exciting thing to
see as well.
SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
And I remember you telling me once around the
actual use.
So we see a lot of feed pads andinfrastructure evolve now,
talking about feeding up on allsorts to reduce the wastage.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Yeah, so people started feeding maize in the
paddock, and then we sawinnovative people using old
carpets, old conveyor belting.
Uh, we went through a systemwhere we had a lot of feed pads
on the exit race to cow sheds,but the dairy industry and the
environmental rigs evolved tothe point that now feed pads
look extremely different fromwhat they used to.
(24:46):
At the high end, we've got a fewpeople that have invested in
wintering structures and barnsand feed pads and even a few
farms where cows are indoor allyear round.
Um so we've got a real range.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Let's focus in a little bit more on the business
and and what what are some ofthe key focuses for the company
now, Will?
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Look, I think some things haven't changed in some
respects.
Ensuring that we're alwaysproducing and delivering to
farmers the highest quality seedhas always been a focus.
That will always be the case.
I think increasingly goingforward, uh, the opportunity for
us as a business and for theindustry and farmers in
particular is to see maize as anincreasingly important and
(25:26):
valuable tool in mitigating someof the environmental effects of
intensive farming.
And some of the research we'vebeen doing in recent years has
shown that maize is a reallyimportant key tool to help soak
up nutrient that's fallen belowthe rooting zone of shallower
rooted pasture and foragespecies.
Matt, one thing I wanted totouch on is the privilege that
(25:50):
Cortever and pioneer people havebestowed on us as a family and
business to represent them inthis part of the world.
And Philip and I in particularhave a lot of close
relationships, close friendshipsindeed, that go back decades
with a lot of the senior peopleand the founding families of the
pioneer business in the US thathave been developed and
cherished and nourished over theyears.
(26:12):
And so for me and us as afamily, I think uh we're very
lucky and blessed to have theprivilege and responsibility of
representing the pioneer brandin this part of the world, both
here and in Australia.
SPEAKER_04 (26:23):
Absolutely.
Well, sadly, many of them are nolonger with us.
SPEAKER_03 (26:26):
No, that's true.
But there's a new generation ofleaders and friends I've grown
up with in my time with Pioneer,and those relationships uh and
networks remain strong.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Raywin, you you've tapped in to understand that,
not necessarily the canolderpart, but the dairy market using
the strengths from the businessgrowth here.
What does the market look likeover there for Pioneer?
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Oh look, I think it's exciting times for Pioneer
because both in Australia, inNew Zealand and globally, we've
just got some excellent geneticsand products, and we've also got
a lot of knowledge on feedingcows and how to incorporate
maize into dairy farm systems.
And I think there's a lot ofopportunity because uh
Australian farmers are comingunder pressure with climate
(27:08):
change and are increasinglylooking to fill feed deficits,
and and maize silage provides areliable supply of high-quality
feed, more nutrient dense andhas got better quality
parameters than some of thetraditional forages that dairy
farmers buy when they're shortof feed.
SPEAKER_03 (27:25):
Another interesting and important aspect of the
business is our export business.
We produce hybrid maize andcanola seed for different
pioneer entities and marketselsewhere around the world.
For example, we produce all ofthe hybrid maize seed that is
sold by the pioneer business inJapan, and most of, if not all,
of the same which is sold intoKorea.
(27:45):
And from time to time we'resending in pioneer seed grown in
Gizbon to other northernhemisphere markets.
And a recent development is weentered into an agreement with
Pioneer to produce hybrid canolaseed for the African market as
well.
So that's an important andinteresting aspect of the
business going for us, too.
SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
Yeah, it was initiated or it comes back to
the quality seed that has beenproduced through those processes
and people in Gizbon.
SPEAKER_03 (28:09):
And the relationships that we have with
Pioneer that they trust us toproduce reliably and
consistently the quality andvolume of seed that they they
look to us to do so.
SPEAKER_02 (28:18):
So, Philip, I know you're pretty keen to see the
data out of our new hybrids aswell every year.
Absolutely.
Well, that's been a big focus aswell for the business in terms
of making hybrid advancements,is bringing greater yields,
increased disease resistance.
That's still a major focus forthe business.
SPEAKER_03 (28:34):
Absolutely.
It's very much at the core ofwho and what we are as a as a
hybrid maze business is toconstantly look and evaluate the
latest genetics that pioneerbreeders elsewhere around the
world are making available tous.
And every year we bring inliterally dozens, multiple
dozens of new products fromNorth America and Europe in
(28:55):
particular, but sometimes fromother markets, Japan, for
example, and and Australia, andtrial those products here
against the current commerciallineup of pioneer hybrids and
competitor hybrids.
And the purpose and mission ofthat effort and investment is to
identify ever-improved hybridsthat we can then look to
commercialize and make availableto farmers.
(29:16):
And Matt, it's obviously aboutimproving and increasing the
yield of those crops, but alsothe resilience and reliability
of them and what we're seeing asincreasingly challenging growing
environments with some of theweather events that we're
experiencing these days as a asa consequence of climate change.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
And on that, Ray, uh in terms of soil conservation,
but greenhouse gases has been achanging landscape for the
business as well.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Absolutely.
Twenty years ago, we didn'tthink about things like nitrogen
leaching, greenhouse gases, orsoil conservation methods, and
those are all things now thatare really at the forefront of
our research.
We're looking at differenttillage systems.
We've uh looked at greenhousegas losses from maize systems
and how to actually influenceand reduce those.
And as Will was talking aboutbefore, a large amount of work
(30:03):
and a big investment in nitrogenleaching research to look at how
much nitrogen is being lostunder maize systems.
And it's really pleasing to seejust environmentally how well
the crop stacks up.
Alongside the environmentalresearch, one of the things
that's been really exciting tosee is the investment in
equipment in the whole researchprogram.
(30:23):
Very few trials are now done theold way with hand cuts and
things, choppers with NIR onboard that's analysing feed
value on the go.
Also with grain, you know, thesmall plot impact trialling
program and trial combine.
So we've really seen somemassive investment, which has
made the job easier and alsohelped improve just the number
(30:43):
of trials and the accuracy.
SPEAKER_03 (30:45):
And I think picking up on Raywin's point probably
also speaks to the philosophyand approach we bring to the
business in that we have a verylong view of how we operate and
what we do for the industry andour customers and as a business.
And we do invest heavily inequipment and resources and
people and our capability andthe effort that we put into what
(31:07):
I would describe a lot of whatwe do as industry good research
as much as evaluating andadvancing new products very much
speaks to who and how we are andoperate as a family business.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
It's very interesting that you use the
term a long look approachbecause that's come through from
pioneer themselves.
And so that synergy is stillplaying out throughout the
business.
SPEAKER_03 (31:27):
Absolutely.
The long look was pioneerleaders in the US in the 50s,
and they sat down and framed upfour key pillars of how they uh
saw they wanted the business tooperate around the world, and
we've adapted and adopted thosefour philosophies here in New
Zealand and Australia as well,and it very much guides and
determines how we think aboutand operate as a business.
SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
You're very much committed to the enhancing the
future of New Zealandagriculture.
What do you see the futurelooking like for the business in
the immediate but then out tothe longer term?
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
The big picture for Australasian agriculture is
bright.
Obviously, the world'spopulation is growing.
In Australia and New Zealand,we've got advanced farming
systems, sophisticated farmingprocesses and means of farming.
We've got irrigation, we've gotgenerally helpful climate for
growing good crops.
Obviously, Australia and NewZealand produce and export much
(32:21):
of what they they grow ascountries and agricultural
industries.
So the countries, the economies,and the business have a very
bright and positive futureahead.
Having said that, we're in veryinteresting and challenging
times, both global, politicaland economic and climate
perspective.
So the future is bright, butit's not going to be without its
(32:41):
uh challenges, and it comes backto the research that we put into
helping farmers evolve anddevelop their farming systems
and how they grow their crops tobest effect going forward.
SPEAKER_02 (32:52):
Philip, this is your journey.
What do you see the futurelooking like?
SPEAKER_04 (32:56):
Well, I I think the basic fundamentals that we
started out hold good today.
Will's just said that.
First thing's integrity.
We don't make claims about ourproducts that we can't back with
scientific facts.
We don't tell farmers that thisis the best product when it may
not be.
I think if we stay with thoseethical approaches, the business
will always prosper.
(33:16):
You've got to have the bestproduct and demonstrate.
And New Zealand's doing that.
That's why we've got theseexport markets.
SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Fascinating.
Thank you very much for sharingsome special memories and the
journey and the growth of notonly the Yates family business
but genetic technologies.
So thank you very much forsharing your wonderful stories.
SPEAKER_04 (33:33):
Thanks, Matt.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
Matt, it's been great chatting with you.
Thank you.
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