How do you build a boutique fitness brand that stands out in a crowded market? And how do you balance staying true to your values while also marketing for growth?
In this episode of Female emPOWERED, I’m joined by my dear friend and returning guest Kari Saitowitz — founder of Fhitting Room in NYC and current CMO of New York Sports Club. With a background at American Express, Pepsi, and a Harvard MBA, Kari blends world-class marketing expertise with the real-life lessons of building and scaling a boutique fitness business.
We dive into:
- How Kari transitioned from corporate marketing into boutique fitness entrepreneurship
- The origins of Fhitting Room and how branding + values drove growth
- The difference between brand identity (your fonts, colors, logos) and brand intangibles (culture, values, client experience)
- Why boutique fitness owners should start with branding as the foundation of their marketing
- Creative, free marketing ideas that actually work for small studios (referrals, partnerships, member stories, retention campaigns)
- How AI is changing the way fitness businesses market and operate
✨ Kari will also be joining me live at the CEO Summit this November in Miami, where she’ll sit on our Marketing Panel to answer your questions directly about branding, client acquisition, and retention strategies.
👉 Spots are almost sold out! Learn more and grab your seat here: www.christagurka.com/ceosummit
If you’re a Pilates studio, yoga studio, or boutique fitness owner who feels stuck in the weeds of marketing or unsure how to stand out in a saturated market, this episode is a must-listen. And if you’re ready to step into your CEO role with confidence and clarity, the CEO Summit is where it all comes together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (00:00):
Hey there everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Female Empowered Podcast.
I'm your host, Christa Gurka,and today we have a guest
episode, one of my dear, dearfriends, who's also actually
returning guest on the podcast.
So we have Kari Saitowitz herewith me today who is the founder
of Fhitting Room, which is a hiconcept in.
(00:22):
New York and Manhattan, andcurrently she is the CMO of New
York Sports Club.
She comes with a tremendousamount of knowledge in
marketing, having worked withPepsi.
Her dog's name is Pepsi, which Ithink is super, super cute too.
And she is someone that I creditwith.
(00:44):
Teaching me a lot aboutbusiness.
We met because we were in amastermind together.
We all joined right at thebeginning of COVID.
So we were all basicallystruggling together.
She obviously a lot more becauseshe was in Manhattan.
So Kari thank you so much forjoining me for this call.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (01:01):
My pleasure.
I think you me a very elevatedego there.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (01:07):
You are amazing.
I mean, I don't even wanna talk,first of all, she went to
Harvard and Penn, so this girl'swicked smart and she's very
humble and, would you actuallyshare.
A little bit about, so yourmarketing background started
with Pepsi, but can you shareyour story of how you started in
(01:28):
marketing and then your,transition into boutique
fitness?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (01:32):
Sure.
So if we dial way back to afterundergrad, I went to work for
American Express.
At the time, a lot of brands didnot recruit brand managers that
didn't have MBAs.
I mean, everything has changed.
In the many years since then.
but American Express, obviouslybeing a huge global brand,
always had really awesomemarketing campaigns.
(01:53):
but I did business developmentand strategic planning for them.
So my first three years out ofcollege was, spent much more
like a management consultant.
So different project engagementsfor different business units
that would last anywhere fromthree months to.
Up to a year.
so while I was situated inside amassive global brand with an
amazing global marketing arm, myrole specifically wasn't
(02:16):
marketing.
I knew I really wanted to leaninto marketing and spend.
All of my time focused more onconsumer behavior brand
building.
So I went back to businessschool and after that, well
actually during my first andsecond year, I interned for
Pepsi in their marketingdepartment and then left that
internship with a job offer toreturn, which was like a total
(02:40):
dream for me.
Huge brand, big budgets, globalcampaigns, just an awesome place
to build your marketing chops.
The.
Leadership from most juniorlevels of management up through
the most senior are just reallysmart and talented in, a
plethora of ways.
So some people being more likequantitative and strategic and
(03:02):
really like insights buildingothers being more creative
agency backgrounds.
I'd say that's really where I,continue to develop my love of
marketing and branding, but alsolearned that it's so much more
than what you think it is on thesurface, and it continues to
evolve.
So.
I left Pepsi back in 2007 when Ihad my older son.
(03:24):
and at the time, there was likea proposal from the Facebook on
my desk and digital marketingwas having a micro site for a
promotion.
so from an academic standpoint,I'm not a digital native, which
is an interesting place to benow as a chief marketing officer
because I have to.
Hire a team that has skillsthat, I'm not an, they're more
(03:48):
expert in certain things than Iam.
So from Pepsi, I actuallystepped outta the workforce
altogether.
When I had my older son, Ithought I would stay at home
until my kids left the house forcollege.
My older one is first applyingto colleges this year, and
Fhitting room was over 12 yearsold, so that obviously didn't
(04:08):
happen.
I found myself just really drawnin general to More business
types of conversations than stayat home mom types of
conversations.
And many of those conversationshappened with my personal
trainer at the time because thetwo days a week when I left my
house when I was raising kidswas essentially when I would go
(04:31):
to the gym and work out.
I had a personal trainer who wasgetting an MBA, so he was
studying all sorts of businessproblems at the same time.
The boutique fitness firstreally started to penetrate.
so at the time in New York therewas one Barry's Bootcamp, one
physique 57.
I think the second Soul cyclewas opening.
(04:51):
So this is really, reallynascent and I loved my training
sessions and my results of mytraining sessions, but I felt
like I was missing out on this.
fun that friends were having asthey were going to boutique
classes.
I started to have a lot ofconversations with my trainer
and with others who also hadpersonal trainers, but were also
(05:14):
taking some boutique fitnessclasses about whether or not it
would be possible to take thetype of workout you do with a
personal trainer.
So strength training, Heavyweights compared to the weights
that accompanied a lot of morecardio heavy classes at the
time.
and perform that safely in agroup environment.
Like is it possible to do realstrength training, real
(05:37):
conditioning, kind of with thatknowledge and heavy direction of
a really expert trainer in frontof the room, but do it in a
group environment so it could beboth fun.
And very effective.
Those conversations kind ofsnowballed into, I don't know if
it was a challenge or relieffrom my husband that I stopped
(05:58):
talking about kids' nap times,but he basically was like, why
don't you figure it out?
You went to Harvard BusinessSchool.
Like, just go do it.
So what started as, really not abusiness plan at all.
It was more just like, I call ita gym idea.
'cause that was the subject lineof the first email that I ever
sent on the topic.
what started as a gym ideaultimately a year later became.
(06:22):
Opening the doors of the firstFhitting room, over 12 years
ago.
And so when I opened Fhittingroom, I always had that consumer
behavior lens.
certainly my love of marketingand just consumer behavior was
the lens I really saw everythingthrough.
My accountant at the time saidto me, you never ran a gym.
(06:44):
What makes you think this isgoing to work?
don't, you know nine out of 10new businesses fails?
Which I could tell you this,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (06:51):
Yay.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (06:51):
an accountant who says things like that.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (06:53):
Yeah, so, so, positive.
So positive.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (06:57):
encouraging, but, it kind of caught me off
guard.
'cause I was like, don't thinkof this as running a gym.
I think of this as.
Like solving a problem that Isee in the marketplace, which
is.
Personal training workouts areawesome if led by a good
trainer, but they're reallyexpensive and they're not very
fun.
(07:18):
And there's a whole lot ofpeople who would love the
benefits of personal trainerswho can't afford it or, You
aren't turned on by thatexperience of a one-on-one
relationship.
And so, I always thought of thisas marketing, even though I had
to of course, become expert inthings technology and systems
(07:39):
and finance and accounting andlaws and all sorts of stuff.
But, but ultimately I always seethe business and most businesses
through the lens of theconsumer.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (07:51):
Yeah, at the height of Fhitting room,
you had three locations.
With a five, oh my gosh.
Five.
And, with a goal to continue togrow.
I mean, that was the goal and itwas successful.
You had a very interestingconcept because It's Fhitting
room spelled F-H-I-T-T-I-N-G.
(08:12):
And I think people said to youinitially too, You don't need to
go so catchy.
Right?
But it stands for Functionalhigh Intensity training, which I
thought was very clever alongwith like Fhitting room and the
changes that happen like in aFhitting room.
You had two trainers, correct meif I'm wrong in the class, that
was part of your, ethos, right?
(08:32):
how many people to two trainers.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (08:35):
Before we opened, it wasn't intended to
have two trainers, but when weopened we needed to train people
how to teach these classes.
And so we paired sort of moregreen, trainers with the head
trainer to co-teach so that theywould learn on the job.
(08:56):
however, clients.
Played that back as almost thebiggest differentiator from
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (09:03):
it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (09:04):
at the time that they loved the two
instructors.
I think it made people feel verysafe.
There was, could always beleading the room in terms of
what are you doing next,counting down the clock.
But there was always somebodyelse who kind of could be all
hands on deck with formcorrection or modifications.
So that was, how we.
(09:24):
Launched and how we remained upuntil the pandemic.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (09:28):
Yeah, it definitely is a
differentiator'cause there's notoften that you see two coaches
in.
A group, setting.
So the other thing that I lovedabout you and why I love
bringing you on to talk aboutmarketing is you're not just a
marketing expert, marketing andbranding.
You were a business owner.
So you had to look at it fromboth sides in terms of budget.
(09:52):
ROI, is it working?
Is it not working?
And I think a lot of owners inboutique fitness, as you could
attest, marketing is a hugeumbrella.
you said, there's digitalmarketing, there's paid
advertising, there's in-person,there's organic, there's earned
media.
It just becomes, I think,overwhelming for your typical
(10:14):
boutique fitness owner who maynot actually be so savvy in
business.
They're technicians often, sowhen you coming from corporate.
Marketing to transitioning intoowning a boutique fitness
yourself, what were some of thedifferences that you realized in
(10:36):
that kind of that marketingseat, but more as an owner of a
boutique brand?
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (10:41):
Yeah, so, well, especially for me, coming
from places American Express andPepsi, I think the first and
foremost, you have no brandawareness you first open a
boutique.
And not only did we have nobrand awareness at the time.
People didn't really evenunderstand the inherent benefits
(11:03):
of training with high intensityintervals or women in particular
lifting heavy weights.
People would come into thestudio and our lightest dumbbell
was seven and a half pounds, andthe lightest kettlebell was, I
think six kilograms, might havebeen eight kilograms, which is,
12 or 16 pounds.
(11:25):
and.
There was a whole educationpiece just on the product before
we even got into, okay, now whyFhitting room versus some other
competitor and you're doing thatwithout a budget?
I had no marketing budget.
I mean, I don't know, maybe forthe first five years I don't
(11:46):
think I spent a penny onmarketing.
And so those were challengesthat didn't exist in, in my
prior roles.
And I think, even for somebodywho doesn't come from an
American Express or a Pepsi, alot of times you still have a
product.
People inherently understand thebenefits of.
(12:07):
and so we really had to startfrom,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (12:09):
you are huge in branding, which.
I love, your Fhitting room.
Branding was on point.
Very much so.
And I, the last time you came tospeak at, at the summit, at my
summit a couple years ago, oneof the things you did talk about
was branding, which I do thinkis really important.
So can you talk a little bitabout why branding should be.
(12:34):
Kind of an integral first stepto somebody's marketing campaign
and what is actually branding?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (12:41):
Yeah, I was gonna say, let me first take a
step back.
So the way I think aboutbranding is there's really two
big buckets.
There's your brand identity,which are all of your tangibles.
Colors, fonts, logos, taglines,photography, things you can see,
touch, they're tangible.
And then there's yourintangibles, which are your
(13:03):
brand values or your servicestandards, right?
You can't see them or touchthem, but.
If you were blindfolded andwalked into two different spaces
and had greetings at twodifferent front desks or
something like that, can youtell
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (13:17):
Okay.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (13:19):
And so in terms of your brand identity,
all of those tangible things, isreally critical because it can
help you build awareness.
Faster and awareness is thefirst step in the customer
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (13:32):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (13:33):
Your customer acquisition funnel.
So you can't be in somebody'sconsideration set, should I take
this class or that class ifnobody knows you exist.
So the stronger your identityis, the faster you can build
that recognition.
it also helps you break throughthe clutter.
So, think about your email inboxand how many emails you get.
(13:53):
But, the ones that consistentlylook unique from everything else
they have, you don't even haveto read it to know who it's
from, right?
If you open an email fromFhitting room, you know it's
from Fhitting room.
It's unmistakable between thecolors and the fonts.
Certain phrases and things likethat.
so that just helps you withoutsomebody, let's say you are
(14:15):
walking past a storefront, youdon't necessarily have to read
it.
If your brand identity is strongenough, somebody's going to will
recognize it.
so I think so that's huge also.
And then.
All of those little seeds, italso helps build your community.
So on my wrist right now is aFhitting room hair tie.
We've, had them from the day weopen and one of my teammates was
(14:38):
on, I always forget if it was atrain or a plane at one point,
and the woman sitting next toher said, do you go to Fhitting
room?
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (14:45):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (14:46):
And she was like, oh, I work there.
And they had this wholeconversation about it, but they
immediately were connected andoh, this person's part of the
same
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (14:55):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (14:55):
am.
Or maybe the person next to herhadn't been in a year, but now
we're on her mind.
So now we have top of mindawareness.
Maybe we go back into herconsideration funnel.
So the stronger your brandidentity, just the, more
effective everything you do canbe like speeds up the whole.
Process from recognition togetting back in that
(15:17):
consideration set to being ableto remind people.
Like at Pepsi, one of themeasures I had to track every
week was top of mind awarenesswas one of the KPIs.
So if you said to somebody, namefive soda brands or you know,
beverage brands or somethinglike that.
So one is recall are you top ofmind, somebody just says your
name, but the other isrecognition.
(15:38):
somebody may not say, gimme yourfive favorite workouts.
They might not say Fhittingroom, but maybe they say like
the green one, or they see thathair tie and they're like, oh,
that's from Fhitting room.
All of that just acceleratesyour customer journey.
So that's on the tangibles, onthe intangibles in some ways.
I mean, these are equally asimportant, if not more important
(16:00):
from like the total businessperspective.
they're really the backbone ofyour business.
So if you have a reallywell-defined brand, it's going
to make everything else easier.
So when you are, hiringsomebody, for example, do they.
they a cultural fit?
what's that culture like?
Those are your brandintangibles.
(16:22):
When you are deciding, what newworkshop to offer or a different
class type, does it fit within,how you define your brand.
your messaging, strategicpartnerships.
Does this partner fit our brandor doesn't it?
Is the tagline does it fit ourbrand?
Are we irreverent or is it tooirreverent?
(16:44):
'cause we're a family friendlybrand, but the more well defined
your brand is and your brandvoice, the easier all your other
decisions are.
'cause it takes options off thetable.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (16:55):
Yep.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (16:55):
one that I think of most was, like you
mentioned we're in New York and.
New York studios were closed foran excessively long time After
the pandemic over a year, and alot of studios started to open
before they were technicallyallowed to open of Fhitting
rooms.
Brand values is integrity.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (17:16):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (17:17):
And we would sit in these meetings and be
like, darn that integrity value,because integrity meant we
couldn't have someone in ourcommunity be offended that we
weren't following the safetyprotocols of our city.
And while it was frustrating insome ways, because you wanna
just see revenue coming, andagain, you don't wanna lose your
(17:37):
customer relationships, also itwent against our brand values.
So it just, it was off thetable, so it was one less.
Big decision that, that I had towrestle with.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (17:50):
Yeah.
I do think that's important totalk about when you talk about
your mission, vision, andvalues, which I think a lot of
business owners I did for manyyears.
poo-pooed that whole thing.
I was like, yeah, they're all inmy head.
Yeah.
I, I, I, everyone knows what westand for, whatever.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (18:02):
years into Fhitting room.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (18:04):
Too.
Yeah, but you, you really.
Live your values.
I will say that, I mean, I thinkall of us in the group are like,
Kari Saitowitz is the culturequeen.
It was very important to you,but I do respect that you stuck
by it because I also say when Italk about core values, I do
(18:24):
think it's something that yourbusiness reeks of.
I thought that was a greatexample when you said can, if
you go blindfolded, it's afeeling that you get and.
It's something that you don'tcompromise on.
So the fact that you saidintegrity is one of your things
and you did not compromise whenit got really hard to say and
(18:47):
you guys were closed for so longto really sit in it and say,
this is part of our value.
We have to.
Stick to it.
'cause some people will caveduring those tough times and
say, forget it, this is now moreimportant.
I will say, can you put yourowner hat on just for a second
(19:08):
and we'll just segue tomarketing.
'Cause I think this is animportant aspect and I think my
listeners will, resonate withthis.
How difficult sometimes is it?
When you're really trying tobuild a culture and a value and
a vision and actually lead fromthe front as an owner, when
there are people on your teamthat you might have to say no
(19:31):
to, or you might have to get offthe bus or a client or a
business decision.
So from a business owner hat,how does that feel?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (19:43):
I mean, I think, you know how hard it can
be.
I mean, sometimes as anindividual I wanna make one
decision, but as a businessowner who's.
Staying true to what we'vedefined, it's like it doesn't
(20:03):
fit.
Or, there may be a marketingpartner that I think could open
up a new.
A new pool of clients to us, butit might be a marketing partner
that somebody on my team has hada bad experience with and raises
their hand and it's like, okay,then it's off the table.
(20:24):
so it, it could be really hardand I think it's hardest when
you know that you've been.
Treating people a certain wayconsistently or doing things a
certain way.
And then the perception by someindividual, whether it's
internal or external, is likethe complete opposite what you
(20:47):
have been committed to.
and.
Also part of that integrity isthis, taking the high road.
So everybody has a microphonethese days and there have
certainly been situations wherepeople will blast either myself
personally or the company aboutsomething, some form of
(21:09):
treatment in some way.
And it's like I might have 25data points to the complete
contrary, and i'm taking
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (21:18):
You have to eat it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (21:19):
like, you
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (21:20):
You have to eat it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (21:21):
is so, so hard.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (21:24):
It's really hard and it's very
personal.
when we, when we do everythingin our power as, as owners and
colleagues to do what's right byour team, and someone turns
around and blasts us and thenthe, the perception is that
we're these awful people.
Meanwhile, we've had thosepeople in our home for.
(21:46):
Dinner.
We've invited them when theydidn't have family in town for
holiday meals.
We've given them loans or raisesor allowed them to do certain
things and then they turn aroundand we become the bad person.
But you're right, it's reallyhard as owners sometimes to take
the high road.
So, all right, we'll segue.
I just wanted people,'cause I dothink sometimes there's a
perception that when you reach acertain echelon that you're oh,
(22:09):
five studios in that.
We get removed from theseproblems and one thing I like to
tell everyone is the problemsare the same.
A lot of times they're just onscale, right?
So
Kari Saitowitz-2 (22:20):
I was gonna say there's
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (22:21):
they're just bigger.
There's more of them.
So they, running five locationshas just as many people saying
mean things about her, whetherit's clients or staff as
anybody.
So.
Okay, so now you have brandfirst.
Um, I love that.
I do think it's important whenyou're looking at someone's
brand, when you're looking attheir Instagram, when you're
(22:43):
looking at their website, thatit's is consistent.
So color, fonts, um, photos,filters, those kind of things.
So now let's take that intomarketing.
And so when we look atmarketing.
Again, if I say anythingincorrect, please correct me,
(23:03):
but marketing basically meanstelling the market that you
exist.
So going to find clients thatare going to, in our business,
hopefully pay us for services.
Can you list a couple differentways that business owners can
market their business fromorganic free marketing to paid
(23:25):
bigger budgets, marketing.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (23:28):
Sure.
marketing, you were saying,it's, it's so large.
So I always say if you're in aclassroom setting, you learn
marketing as the four Ps, right?
And the first one is product,right?
You have product, pricing,promotions and place.
But so it starts with product.
and so I always say I think oneof the best ways to get your
brand out there, if you're atthe beginning of your journey,
(23:50):
but you could really do this atany point, is first talking to
people about.
So you could do this through,focus groups, one-on-one
interviews.
I used to take groups of moms atmy kids' schools to lunches.
And first just ask them aboutwhat's meeting their
expectations, what isn't meetingtheir expectations?
(24:11):
If they had a magic wand, whatwould they change?
Like, do they come in the firstplace?
What keeps them coming back?
So the first thing is just makesure you're completely honed in
on your unique sellingproposition, and the only way to
do that is to find out from yourcustomers, because it doesn't
matter what you think your brandis at all, it matters what they
think it is.
Once you have that, now you haveto, now you know your messaging
(24:34):
and you have to be superconsistent.
But I think ironically, the mosteffective things, especially for
small businesses, are free.
I don't think paid worksparticularly well for small
businesses because they don'thave brand awareness, so
community driven.
Content.
So start with like your memberstories, your transformation
(24:55):
spotlight.
Like when you showcase somebody,they share that with everybody
they know.
Others see you showcasing andcelebrating somebody's story or
journey, and they aspire to bethat person.
So you have that.
You have your instructors, yourinstructors, and their word of
mouth is.
(25:15):
So you wanna create a spacewhere you know they want to
spend their time and they'redoing what it is you do in your
spaces.
So at Fhitting room, thetrainers are in there working
out all the time and they'reconstantly filming themselves
'cause it's just what they do.
But we make it so that.
It, feels like where they wannado this as opposed to them doing
(25:37):
it somewhere else.
showcasing whenever your clientsare posting, you want them
taking selfies, you want themtagging you, you wanna then
share that on your feeds so thatthey have their five minutes of
fame.
They feel seen, they feelrecognized.
a lot harder to stop going tothe place that, knows you're
coming than it is to stop goingto this anonymous location.
(26:01):
but you're also celebrating thatthey're there.
So we have I.
Little phrases on our mirrorsthat encourage, people wanna
take pictures of them inside thelockers.
Not everybody wants to takephotos of themselves.
We have like an easel sign onthe sidewalk that has cute
things.
We have little sayings insidethe lockers, and people will
often take pictures of thosethings.
(26:23):
and I mean, boutique fitnessspecifically, but I think all
small businesses, it thrives onrelationships.
So just, I mean.
Taking the time to build thoseone-on-one relationships at the
desk.
knowing people's names, what'sgoing on in their lives, that's
all huge as far as marketingchannels.
(26:43):
Anything you do, you kind ofreally wanna be hyper-local.
So marketing partnerships, Ilook around like the
neighborhood that my studios arein.
What are other businesses thatare not competitive but attract
the same clients?
So maybe it's a retailer, maybeit's a service provider, A
hairdresser or whatever it is.
So we've done partnerships withlike dry bars, we've done
(27:06):
partnerships with retailers.
if you're getting the word out,if that's your objective, offer
like gifts with purchase.
hey, if they've got customerswho are spending over, I don't
know, you name the number,$100,$200, whatever it is, they've
got people with disposableincome.
Give them a class to drop inthat shopping bag as like a gift
with purchase or something likethat.
(27:27):
So you're qualifying that personas somebody who has disposable
income, and now you're kind ofsurprising and delighting them.
So why would that partner sayno?
You're literally giving themsomething where they can
surprise and delight their bestcustomers.
And now you're hopefully gettingyour name out there.
One of the best partnerships wedid early on at our, flagship
(27:49):
studio for many years was withthis company called Hello
Alfred.
And they were a conciergecompany for, York.
People who don't have doormen,it's hard to get deliveries and.
Get your drycleaning and allthis stuff.
And so they basically performedthat service for a bunch of
apartment buildings right aroundwhere our gym was.
And so we had them, attached tothe bags.
(28:12):
Just
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (28:12):
Oh.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (28:13):
a little collateral about what we did
with our intro offer and we, itjust got the word out to people
who lived right there.
and the reality is you reallywanna be within a, in a city
within a probably half a mile ofradius and suburbs.
I would say probably stillwithin a three to five mile
radius.
You probably know better thanme, but who are those companies?
(28:37):
affiliate partnerships.
So there may be partnershipswhere you're, you're sharing a
discount code for somebodyelse's brand with your
customers.
Maybe they're doing the same foryou, but it feels like a perk
for each.
And you each get some sort of afinancial kickback.
So you're growing revenues, notjust your potential.
client pool.
(28:58):
SEO is an interesting one.
Now, there's a million freetools out there where you can
run your website through freeSEO tools.
when we were talkingconsistency, so before, I feel
like it was consistency in allthose tangible things.
Now, consistency in messaging isjust as important because all of
these, LLM models and crawlersthat are feeding your brand or
(29:20):
your product to people.
They need consistent messaging.
So if your content sayssomething different on your
website, then it says on yourYelp page, then it says on your
Google listing, then it says inblog posts or something, you're
falling to the bottom ofeverybody's algorithm.
So, really clear messaging.
if you do spend any money onmarketing, I would say hyper.
(29:45):
Targeted.
sometimes I just do things forNew York Sports Club, if we redo
a gym, we do sidewalk stickers,just, around the blocks that
surround the gym.
it's super cheap, but you'rejust telling a bunch of people
who maybe know your gym's beenthere for 50 years, but it's all
new, everything inside, stepinside to look.
so really hyper-local referraland rewards program.
(30:07):
So word of mouth should be yourprobably number one customer
acquisition channel.
For small business tool, small,it doesn't have to be fancy and
tech enabled.
It could be something reallysimple and manual to
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (30:21):
Yep.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (30:21):
know, especially if you're small.
but anything that rewards yourcustomers for spreading, the
word outs again.
I went back to some emails from2016 on the call this week and
there were emails saying wecan't afford to give out a free
class when somebody hits certainmilestones, but we just had the
(30:41):
instructors, sort of put a big
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (30:43):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (30:43):
the room and shout them out.
And so it doesn't always have tobe something that's going to
handcuff you financially.
Short form videos.
if you've got clients makingthem great, share them.
If you've got instructors makingthem share them, they can be
really, really quick.
I think that the fallacy is thatyou need something to go viral.
(31:07):
what good does it do you to have10 million views on a video if
nobody lives in yourneighborhood?
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (31:13):
Right.
Totally true.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (31:14):
it just doesn't matter.
And then I would say, don'tforget about retention.
So
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (31:19):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (31:19):
one of the biggest lessons in marketing is
it's way more expensive to docustomer acquisition than it is
to do retention.
So, basic automations, that justkeep touch points with people.
you don't wanna make people feelbad.
not coming, if they're kind oflapsed, but just checking in,
just maybe telling them aboutsomething new that's happening
(31:42):
it doesn't have to be thosemessages that make you feel
really guilty or like almostembarrassed to step foot back in
the door.
I would say I would be reallycareful with wording of those
lapsed customer emails, but, acadence that works for you at
Fhitting room.
We do.
A newsletter every week at NewYork Sports Club.
We do a member newsletter once amonth.
It just kind of depends on howengaged the different
(32:05):
communities are.
You wanna strike that balancebetween delivering and not
getting, having peopleunsubscribe.
targeted offers, to likespecific cohorts of people.
You don't wanna go on sale everyday to everyone.
You have customers who are thereall the time and they're happy
to pay full price.
So really targeted like cohorts,when you are running a
(32:28):
promotion, different language todifferent user groups, like
emails that go out to somebodywho comes to us on a third
party.
Booking membership are going tobe totally different than an
email that's going to somebodywho, buys directly, but maybe
infrequently, versus somebodywho comes all the time at full
price.
So I would just say, reallyhyper targeted.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (32:51):
Those are really, really great ideas.
And I do agree that a lot ofpeople forget about retention
and re-engagement'causeeveryone's so focused on like
leads, leads, leads, leads,leads, especially marketing
companies are promoting get moreleads in the door.
But part of that full marketingfunnel is that.
(33:12):
They're moving from awareness toconsideration, a purchase, and
then it's retention andreengagement at the end.
And if we don't plug the bottomof that funnel, people just keep
falling out.
And so.
Like our win back series.
I think the subject line waslike, are your ears ringing?
And it was like, oh, we've beentalking about you at the studio.
We haven't seen you in a while.
(33:33):
We'd love for you to come backin with technology.
Now there's a lot of ways youcan automate these things.
you can track the.
Re-engagement campaign, like howmuch revenue are you re-engage
with that campaign?
And sometimes people are like,it's a nice gesture.
I think people just like yousaid, or they see someone with a
(33:55):
hair tie on the train andthey're like, I have to make an
appointment to go back toFhitting room.
I have been off.
So everything that you said isvery accurate and I think.
What I would, what I think toois that we don't have to do
everything at once.
maybe one season you're like,okay, this season, this quarter,
or this year, I'm gonna reallyfocus on my re-engagement and
(34:17):
retention strategies.
I'm gonna get my emails done,I'm gonna figure out the tech,
I'm gonna get the automations.
And then you can, you don't haveto do everything all at the same
time.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:28):
That's right.
In fact, I would say youshouldn't because you probably
won't do anything.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (34:32):
Right.
Or Well, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:34):
you start with the absolute basics.
I would start with your website,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (34:39):
Yes, I.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:39):
great about the copy and the imagery on your
website?
have a place for people tosubmit their email or a popup on
a first timer page or something,right?
You want some lead capture andyou wanna feel great about the
language because then thatshould be the language that you
use
Christa Gurka | Fit (34:58):
Everywhere.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:59):
everything else.
So I feel you start there andyou start with Making sure your
Google listing is done or yourApple business account, because
that's how you show up.
in Apple Maps or in Google Mapsor in Uber and stuff like that.
And it's we don't think aboutthese things as being sexy
marketing
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (35:17):
Right,
Kari Saitowitz-2 (35:18):
but getting that stuff right will help drive
more traffic to your businessthan,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (35:24):
course.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (35:24):
having one video reach 10 million
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (35:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause if you have a shittywebsite.
it, and then you're gonna runads.
You're running ads to a shittywebsite, that's just throwing
money down the toilet, it reallyis.
So, get your website.
Well, and it doesn't have to bea 75 page website, it just
branding clear font, a reallyclean user experience.
(35:50):
Right.
Because if you go to a website,I just, like you said, it's like
an extension of who you are andit should match.
Your brand, right?
So if your website is got a lotof words and there's all sorts
of links everywhere, at leastfor me, the feeling I get as a
consumer is I'm oh my God, thisis anxiety producing and that's
(36:11):
not what I want.
So I'm automatically no, thankyou.
Right?
Or one of the things I see onboutique fitness, either their
Instagram or their website isI'm where are you?
Where are you?
where's, where are you?
You know, if you're inManhattan, what part of
Manhattan are you in?
Right?
If I'm looking at your Instagrampage, I wanna see on your
(36:33):
Instagram bio where are you?
What part of the country are youin?
Because if you're not in Miamiand I can't go visit you
locally, I wanna know.
So those are very simple thingspeople can do.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (36:45):
That's right.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Stra (36:46):
So I would say a lot, I think a lot
of people feel, I hear this allthe time on my calls, oh, it's
so crowded.
The market is super saturated.
And well, one, I'd love to askyou what your opinion of that
is.
Is it super saturated,especially in the boutique
fitness, industry?
And if so, yes or no?
(37:07):
how can we get above the noise,basically?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (37:10):
So there's no question there's kind of
competition.
I personally feel like it's beenthis way since at least 2018,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (37:19):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (37:19):
in New York.
I think it's a little bitdifferent, when you get into
some smaller markets.
but I think there's good newsand bad news.
I think there was a time whenthere was a ton of capital
available to To some of theseboutiques, investors were just
throwing money at startupboutiques and there were some
(37:40):
really unsustainable businessmodels.
So there was a time where it wasalmost impossible to hire an
instructor at a reasonable costbecause well-funded businesses
were we'll pay you
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (37:51):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (37:52):
to teach a class.
I think the good news is we'reentering, a new phase where
there's still a lot ofcompetition, but I think that.
It's a much more rationalmarket.
I think that people are muchmore focused on profit and
sustainable business models.
we are seeing some consolidationof some of the biggest players
(38:13):
that expanded really quickly.
but I think that doors opening,thinking more about their cost
structures, which I think sets amore level playing field,
whether you are big or small.
So I think that part is good.
I think.
At one time messaging was moreabout the, the celebrity trainer
(38:35):
or who is teaching the class asopposed to what the workout is
and what the benefits of theworkout is.
And I feel like right now, evensome of those brands that were
very celebrity driven are alsobecause even they can't afford
those big anymore, you know,everything's much more about the
benefits.
And so I think.
(38:57):
From a smaller business, youalmost have the advantage of
being able to get reallypersonal.
And so focusing on, what is ityou do making sure that what you
do is what people desire.
So if you find that.
(39:19):
You're suffering and you're notseeing retention.
I would have conversations andfind out why people aren't
coming back.
Is pricing off?
Is it the modality?
Is it the workout?
Is it how people are beingtreated?
And so, but you have thatability to really go deep and
dig in.
but I think, you know, I dothink competition is fierce.
(39:42):
I really feel like you can be aspecial place.
Like Fhitting Room at this pointhas one wholly owned studio in
New York City and one licensedlocation in New Jersey.
But performance of that studiois actually better than it's
ever been.
and the engagement is throughthe roof.
We've had a referral and rewardsprogram for years, but we just
(40:03):
launched a new one.
That's built into the app lessthan a month ago.
we already have 50% of clientswho have walked through the door
are enrolled and 50% of them arecurrently in the first challenge
that we're running
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (40:21):
Wow.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (40:21):
new program.
And that is guy high engagement.
because we're small andeverybody feels like they have a
personal relationship with.
With the team, they live closeby.
It's easy.
It falls into their dailyroutine.
They have a workout that getsthem benefits.
But also we keep evolving.
So we ask questions.
(40:42):
We'll launch Progressive series.
We launched workshops.
We'll, we've launched recentlyan advanced, kettlebells class.
But as people progress, we haveto evolve and progress too.
So you don't wanna just.
Set your brand in stone and thennever revisit it.
It kind of all goes together,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (41:02):
What do they say?
My menopause brain's gonnaforget it.
But if you're not growing yourdying type situation, you kind
of have to, you know, you kindof have to grow the time.
So I think that that actuallyrolls into.
AI a little bit and I think, Ithink we're gonna say I, so Kari
Saitowitz is coming to speak atthe Women and Wellness Business
(41:23):
Summit.
Again, I'm so grateful she'scoming to join me in November,
and I think we actually onlyhave five spots available.
I'm gonna link it in the shownotes, but we are gonna talk a
lot about AI at the summit.
But I did wanna just ask you aquick question and just in terms
of.
How are you seeing AI be a newplayer in the boutique fitness
(41:48):
industry?
And even, especially when itcomes to marketing,'cause I know
people that are using it astheir copywriter.
I know people that are using itas their brand strategist.
So what are you seeing on yourside and both just the world of
boutique fitness and then inbusiness in general.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (42:07):
I think at this point most people are using
AI to help with copywriting,brainstorming campaign ideas,
hopefully executing a contentstrategy helping with
brainstorming blog ideas, blogcontent.
Also remember to fact checkeverything.
assisting with scripts.
(42:27):
all that stuff.
I think sort of the next tier upis there's been Different
analyses I've done over theyears of diff, our promotions
that we run.
And I never can get the exactdata that I want out of the
reports from the POS system.
And it usually takes me a day ortwo to crunch together data from
a whole bunch of differentreports and pivot tables and and
(42:50):
a whole bunch of stuff to getthe data I want.
So now I throw a lot of.
Those reports into AI and tellit what I want and that's a huge
time saver.
So I would say data analysis, Ialso at the moment am running,
so for Fhitting room.
We're not running paid ads forNew York Sports Club.
I'm running paid ads.
I'm running them all on an AIplatform right now.
(43:12):
So my team is no longer writingtaglines are handing off
creative.
We are not using AI creative inthis sense of generative, the
whole creative.
Ai, but the AI picks from all ofthe assets that belong to the
brand that exist in, out therein the world.
and then on the backend, I havethe ability to X out if it's
(43:33):
picking up anything, I don'twant it to showcase.
it's just imagine ab testing atthe scale of hundreds of
thousands of ads and audiencesin a month.
So You know, traditionally it'syou run a campaign, a paid
campaign in particular, it hasyour two week learning.
and then if you wanna make achange, you go back to the
(43:54):
beginning and you have yourmaybe eight pieces of creative
at a time and a couple ab testsand your different audiences,
and sometimes you're gosh, Ineed to think of new audiences.
'cause I feel this audienceisn't working.
This is just seamlessly doingall of that at a rapid fire.
what I actually love about itmost, I mean, it is super
(44:15):
efficient.
It takes a lot of the lift offof my team in terms of resizing
creative for different,
Christa Gurka | Fit B (44:22):
platform.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (44:23):
it just does all that seamlessly, but I could
set the budget at the perlocation level and set my little
radius.
I don't have to have this groupof all New York City clubs.
It's just really nimble.
It's really flexible.
I can make changes like a dime.
I'm not creating all thecreated, it is getting me lower,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (44:45):
Cost.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (44:46):
lower cost per lead.
More importantly is that it'stotally transparent.
I have a dashboard.
I'm not waiting on an agencyreport where the agency report
might tell me that my cost perlead has gone down by 50%.
And I'm it's such a headscratcher'cause I'm spending the
same amount of money and I'm notseeing twice as many leads.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (45:05):
Right.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (45:06):
And so are we just putting the same ads in
front of the same person or infront of the person who was
going to come in anyway, butwe're just shoving an ad in
their way?
Like are the attribution models,right?
Like there's all thesequestions, is a dashboard and I
log in, it's totallytransparent, and if something's
out of whack, I'm what happenedhere?
What happened there?
(45:27):
It's not perfect, but it is easyand I'm spending a fraction of
what I used to spend on paidadvertising without seeing my
leads go down.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (45:37):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (45:38):
I just think it's more honest maybe
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (45:40):
Yeah.
It's a, it's a machine, so youtake out the human component of
them trying to sell you, youknow.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (45:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I will say that, as far asbusiness in general, I mean.
There are times sometimes I'llsit down.
I had to do an interview guide.
I was hiring a new digitalmarketing manager a couple of
months ago and the night beforemy first interviews, I pulled up
my interview guide that I hadused to hire my prior digital
marketing manager, except it wasfour and a half years ago it was
(46:11):
like in the morning when I waslooking at this and I was like,
oh my God, I can't believe howlong ago I wrote this interview
guide.
I'm really tired and I just tookthe job description for the
current job and I plugged itinto AI and was like, write me
an interview guide that wouldtake
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (46:30):
Love it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (46:31):
to get through.
and it was like.
Mostly pretty good.
But then I was like, oh, I feellike there's some brand specific
stuff that I wanna add.
Here's my old interview guide,but it's four and a half years
ago, so take it with a grain ofsalt.
but just can you integrate someof the brand specific stuff?
And I mean, it's like
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Stra (46:49):
So easy.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (46:51):
so I mean, I think there's a million job
descriptions.
I tend to, I spend my timegetting all of my thoughts down
in.
Sort of a brain dump into chatGPT so that it can then give me
really well-informed output.
And it's funny, sometimes I getannoyed now.
I was telling my husband theother day, I was like, I had
(47:13):
this email.
It was like a real doozy and Iwanted to be really thoughtful
and really respectful and reallystrategic.
But also it was something that,I had some concerns with.
And.
I was like an email, crafting anemail like that would've taken
me maybe like a half a day in mylike prior life because I'd
(47:33):
really wanna get all of it justright.
The tone, the content, all ofit.
And I was like, it's so funny'cause it probably took me maybe
five to 10.
Maybe 15 minutes to get all ofmy concerns into chat.
GPT, like, I'm concerned, I'mgonna sound like this or, but I
really wanna get this pointacross.
(47:54):
I just, it was gobbledigook,what I put in, but it was a
brain dump of all my thoughts.
And then I was like, can youplease?
And I was like, here's the emailI'm responding to.
just.
the whole thing in, help craft aresponse.
And I, I mean, I did obviouslymanipulation of it afterwards,
my gosh, it was so helpful just
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (48:13):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (48:14):
that initial, you know, just trying to bring
it all together, when you arefeeling so all over the place.
you know, so I, I use it for, Imean, endless
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strat (48:25):
I do too.
I use it for everything.
And again, helping with email,brain dumping in there, asking
it what are my options if I wantto do that.
I've actually asked it to.
I'm getting a, this warning onmy Google Ads account Act as a
Google Ads expert and tell mewhere I need to go find, how do
I need to troubleshoot this?
(48:46):
I I do think if people aren'tleveraging the power of ai,
they're falling behind the eightball a little bit.
but we're definitely gonna talkabout AI in the upcoming summit.
So I'm very, very excited aboutthat and I'm very excited for
Kari to be down.
She's gonna be sitting on ourmarketing panel, which is gonna
be held Friday, November 7th.
(49:07):
so you'll be able to ask KariSaitowitz all sorts of marketing
questions.
She comes, I said, with aplethora of information, and I'm
actually gonna take some of the,the information that you gave me
today in this podcast and evenmaybe ask you when you're down
in the summit, like how do youadvise.
Approaching local retailers orbusiness owners to start that
(49:31):
type of partnership.
'cause I think implementationfor people is the hard part.
Like that sounds like a greatidea.
How do I initiate theconversation?
And so I think that might be areally great topic on the panel.
So I'm gonna take some of these,some of what you said and make
actual questions and people willget to ask you in real life as
well.
So can you let people know wherethey can find you?
(49:54):
They should follow Fhittingroom, which we're gonna link
everything in the show notes.
And Fhitting room is spelledF-H-I-T-T-I-N-G.
New York Sports Club is anotherplace.
anything else you wanna sharewhere people can check you out?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:08):
I do read my LinkedIn messages.
I don't respond to the spamones.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (50:13):
Okay,
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:13):
same thing.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (50:14):
good enough.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:15):
also, I'm not quite of the TikTok age.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (50:19):
I'm not, don't worry, I'm not
either, even though I doomscroll on that platform way,
way, way too much.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:25):
I think I'm logged in as my son on my phone.
I definitely mess up hisalgorithm.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Stra (50:30):
Oh God, for sure.
Yeah, no, I'm, I just doomscroll on there.
So I, my feet is all puppies andcollege dorm rooms, situations
right now since I just moved mykids back to school.
So.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:40):
right.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (50:41):
Kari Saitowitz, thank you so much for
coming on.
And again, for those of you thatwanna see and meet Kari
Saitowitz in person, you cancheck out my website at
christagurka.com look under theCEO summit, which is happening
November 6th and seventh, 2025in Miami.
I am also gonna link theregistration, to the show notes
(51:02):
below.
I think we are really down toour last.
Three spots.
So we cap it at 30 businesses.
So it's small and intimate andreally some great learning.
So thank you, Kari again, anduntil next time, my friends, I'm
so excited.
I can't wait to see you again inNovember.
Bye for now, everyone.
Hey there everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Female Empowered Podcast.
I'm your host, Christa Gurka,and today we have a guest
episode, one of my dear, dearfriends, who's also actually
returning guest on the podcast.
So we have Kari Saitowitz herewith me today who is the founder
of Fhitting Room, which is a hiconcept in.
(00:22):
New York and Manhattan, andcurrently she is the CMO of New
York Sports Club.
She comes with a tremendousamount of knowledge in
marketing, having worked withPepsi.
Her dog's name is Pepsi, which Ithink is super, super cute too.
And she is someone that I creditwith.
(00:44):
Teaching me a lot aboutbusiness.
We met because we were in amastermind together.
We all joined right at thebeginning of COVID.
So we were all basicallystruggling together.
She obviously a lot more becauseshe was in Manhattan.
So Kari thank you so much forjoining me for this call.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (01:01):
My pleasure.
I think you me a very elevatedego there.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (01:07):
You are amazing.
I mean, I don't even wanna talk,first of all, she went to
Harvard and Penn, so this girl'swicked smart and she's very
humble and, would you actuallyshare.
A little bit about, so yourmarketing background started
with Pepsi, but can you shareyour story of how you started in
(01:28):
marketing and then your,transition into boutique
fitness?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (01:32):
Sure.
So if we dial way back to afterundergrad, I went to work for
American Express.
At the time, a lot of brands didnot recruit brand managers that
didn't have MBAs.
I mean, everything has changed.
In the many years since then.
but American Express, obviouslybeing a huge global brand,
always had really awesomemarketing campaigns.
(01:53):
but I did business developmentand strategic planning for them.
So my first three years out ofcollege was, spent much more
like a management consultant.
So different project engagementsfor different business units
that would last anywhere fromthree months to.
Up to a year.
so while I was situated inside amassive global brand with an
amazing global marketing arm, myrole specifically wasn't
(02:16):
marketing.
I knew I really wanted to leaninto marketing and spend.
All of my time focused more onconsumer behavior brand
building.
So I went back to businessschool and after that, well
actually during my first andsecond year, I interned for
Pepsi in their marketingdepartment and then left that
internship with a job offer toreturn, which was like a total
(02:40):
dream for me.
Huge brand, big budgets, globalcampaigns, just an awesome place
to build your marketing chops.
The.
Leadership from most juniorlevels of management up through
the most senior are just reallysmart and talented in, a
plethora of ways.
So some people being more likequantitative and strategic and
(03:02):
really like insights buildingothers being more creative
agency backgrounds.
I'd say that's really where I,continue to develop my love of
marketing and branding, but alsolearned that it's so much more
than what you think it is on thesurface, and it continues to
evolve.
So.
I left Pepsi back in 2007 when Ihad my older son.
(03:24):
and at the time, there was likea proposal from the Facebook on
my desk and digital marketingwas having a micro site for a
promotion.
so from an academic standpoint,I'm not a digital native, which
is an interesting place to benow as a chief marketing officer
because I have to.
Hire a team that has skillsthat, I'm not an, they're more
(03:48):
expert in certain things than Iam.
So from Pepsi, I actuallystepped outta the workforce
altogether.
When I had my older son, Ithought I would stay at home
until my kids left the house forcollege.
My older one is first applyingto colleges this year, and
Fhitting room was over 12 yearsold, so that obviously didn't
(04:08):
happen.
I found myself just really drawnin general to More business
types of conversations than stayat home mom types of
conversations.
And many of those conversationshappened with my personal
trainer at the time because thetwo days a week when I left my
house when I was raising kidswas essentially when I would go
(04:31):
to the gym and work out.
I had a personal trainer who wasgetting an MBA, so he was
studying all sorts of businessproblems at the same time.
The boutique fitness firstreally started to penetrate.
so at the time in New York therewas one Barry's Bootcamp, one
physique 57.
I think the second Soul cyclewas opening.
(04:51):
So this is really, reallynascent and I loved my training
sessions and my results of mytraining sessions, but I felt
like I was missing out on this.
fun that friends were having asthey were going to boutique
classes.
I started to have a lot ofconversations with my trainer
and with others who also hadpersonal trainers, but were also
(05:14):
taking some boutique fitnessclasses about whether or not it
would be possible to take thetype of workout you do with a
personal trainer.
So strength training, Heavyweights compared to the weights
that accompanied a lot of morecardio heavy classes at the
time.
and perform that safely in agroup environment.
Like is it possible to do realstrength training, real
(05:37):
conditioning, kind of with thatknowledge and heavy direction of
a really expert trainer in frontof the room, but do it in a
group environment so it could beboth fun.
And very effective.
Those conversations kind ofsnowballed into, I don't know if
it was a challenge or relieffrom my husband that I stopped
(05:58):
talking about kids' nap times,but he basically was like, why
don't you figure it out?
You went to Harvard BusinessSchool.
Like, just go do it.
So what started as, really not abusiness plan at all.
It was more just like, I call ita gym idea.
'cause that was the subject lineof the first email that I ever
sent on the topic.
what started as a gym ideaultimately a year later became.
(06:22):
Opening the doors of the firstFhitting room, over 12 years
ago.
And so when I opened Fhittingroom, I always had that consumer
behavior lens.
certainly my love of marketingand just consumer behavior was
the lens I really saw everythingthrough.
My accountant at the time saidto me, you never ran a gym.
(06:44):
What makes you think this isgoing to work?
don't, you know nine out of 10new businesses fails?
Which I could tell you this,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (06:51):
Yay.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (06:51):
an accountant who says things like that.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (06:53):
Yeah, so, so, positive.
So positive.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (06:57):
encouraging, but, it kind of caught me off
guard.
'cause I was like, don't thinkof this as running a gym.
I think of this as.
Like solving a problem that Isee in the marketplace, which
is.
Personal training workouts areawesome if led by a good
trainer, but they're reallyexpensive and they're not very
fun.
(07:18):
And there's a whole lot ofpeople who would love the
benefits of personal trainerswho can't afford it or, You
aren't turned on by thatexperience of a one-on-one
relationship.
And so, I always thought of thisas marketing, even though I had
to of course, become expert inthings technology and systems
(07:39):
and finance and accounting andlaws and all sorts of stuff.
But, but ultimately I always seethe business and most businesses
through the lens of theconsumer.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (07:51):
Yeah, at the height of Fhitting room,
you had three locations.
With a five, oh my gosh.
Five.
And, with a goal to continue togrow.
I mean, that was the goal and itwas successful.
You had a very interestingconcept because It's Fhitting
room spelled F-H-I-T-T-I-N-G.
(08:12):
And I think people said to youinitially too, You don't need to
go so catchy.
Right?
But it stands for Functionalhigh Intensity training, which I
thought was very clever alongwith like Fhitting room and the
changes that happen like in aFhitting room.
You had two trainers, correct meif I'm wrong in the class, that
was part of your, ethos, right?
(08:32):
how many people to two trainers.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (08:35):
Before we opened, it wasn't intended to
have two trainers, but when weopened we needed to train people
how to teach these classes.
And so we paired sort of moregreen, trainers with the head
trainer to co-teach so that theywould learn on the job.
(08:56):
however, clients.
Played that back as almost thebiggest differentiator from
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (09:03):
it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (09:04):
at the time that they loved the two
instructors.
I think it made people feel verysafe.
There was, could always beleading the room in terms of
what are you doing next,counting down the clock.
But there was always somebodyelse who kind of could be all
hands on deck with formcorrection or modifications.
So that was, how we.
(09:24):
Launched and how we remained upuntil the pandemic.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (09:28):
Yeah, it definitely is a
differentiator'cause there's notoften that you see two coaches
in.
A group, setting.
So the other thing that I lovedabout you and why I love
bringing you on to talk aboutmarketing is you're not just a
marketing expert, marketing andbranding.
You were a business owner.
So you had to look at it fromboth sides in terms of budget.
(09:52):
ROI, is it working?
Is it not working?
And I think a lot of owners inboutique fitness, as you could
attest, marketing is a hugeumbrella.
you said, there's digitalmarketing, there's paid
advertising, there's in-person,there's organic, there's earned
media.
It just becomes, I think,overwhelming for your typical
(10:14):
boutique fitness owner who maynot actually be so savvy in
business.
They're technicians often, sowhen you coming from corporate.
Marketing to transitioning intoowning a boutique fitness
yourself, what were some of thedifferences that you realized in
(10:36):
that kind of that marketingseat, but more as an owner of a
boutique brand?
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (10:41):
Yeah, so, well, especially for me, coming
from places American Express andPepsi, I think the first and
foremost, you have no brandawareness you first open a
boutique.
And not only did we have nobrand awareness at the time.
People didn't really evenunderstand the inherent benefits
(11:03):
of training with high intensityintervals or women in particular
lifting heavy weights.
People would come into thestudio and our lightest dumbbell
was seven and a half pounds, andthe lightest kettlebell was, I
think six kilograms, might havebeen eight kilograms, which is,
12 or 16 pounds.
(11:25):
and.
There was a whole educationpiece just on the product before
we even got into, okay, now whyFhitting room versus some other
competitor and you're doing thatwithout a budget?
I had no marketing budget.
I mean, I don't know, maybe forthe first five years I don't
(11:46):
think I spent a penny onmarketing.
And so those were challengesthat didn't exist in, in my
prior roles.
And I think, even for somebodywho doesn't come from an
American Express or a Pepsi, alot of times you still have a
product.
People inherently understand thebenefits of.
(12:07):
and so we really had to startfrom,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (12:09):
you are huge in branding, which.
I love, your Fhitting room.
Branding was on point.
Very much so.
And I, the last time you came tospeak at, at the summit, at my
summit a couple years ago, oneof the things you did talk about
was branding, which I do thinkis really important.
So can you talk a little bitabout why branding should be.
(12:34):
Kind of an integral first stepto somebody's marketing campaign
and what is actually branding?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (12:41):
Yeah, I was gonna say, let me first take a
step back.
So the way I think aboutbranding is there's really two
big buckets.
There's your brand identity,which are all of your tangibles.
Colors, fonts, logos, taglines,photography, things you can see,
touch, they're tangible.
And then there's yourintangibles, which are your
(13:03):
brand values or your servicestandards, right?
You can't see them or touchthem, but.
If you were blindfolded andwalked into two different spaces
and had greetings at twodifferent front desks or
something like that, can youtell
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (13:17):
Okay.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (13:19):
And so in terms of your brand identity,
all of those tangible things, isreally critical because it can
help you build awareness.
Faster and awareness is thefirst step in the customer
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (13:32):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (13:33):
Your customer acquisition funnel.
So you can't be in somebody'sconsideration set, should I take
this class or that class ifnobody knows you exist.
So the stronger your identityis, the faster you can build
that recognition.
it also helps you break throughthe clutter.
So, think about your email inboxand how many emails you get.
(13:53):
But, the ones that consistentlylook unique from everything else
they have, you don't even haveto read it to know who it's
from, right?
If you open an email fromFhitting room, you know it's
from Fhitting room.
It's unmistakable between thecolors and the fonts.
Certain phrases and things likethat.
so that just helps you withoutsomebody, let's say you are
(14:15):
walking past a storefront, youdon't necessarily have to read
it.
If your brand identity is strongenough, somebody's going to will
recognize it.
so I think so that's huge also.
And then.
All of those little seeds, italso helps build your community.
So on my wrist right now is aFhitting room hair tie.
We've, had them from the day weopen and one of my teammates was
(14:38):
on, I always forget if it was atrain or a plane at one point,
and the woman sitting next toher said, do you go to Fhitting
room?
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (14:45):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (14:46):
And she was like, oh, I work there.
And they had this wholeconversation about it, but they
immediately were connected andoh, this person's part of the
same
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (14:55):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (14:55):
am.
Or maybe the person next to herhadn't been in a year, but now
we're on her mind.
So now we have top of mindawareness.
Maybe we go back into herconsideration funnel.
So the stronger your brandidentity, just the, more
effective everything you do canbe like speeds up the whole.
Process from recognition togetting back in that
(15:17):
consideration set to being ableto remind people.
Like at Pepsi, one of themeasures I had to track every
week was top of mind awarenesswas one of the KPIs.
So if you said to somebody, namefive soda brands or you know,
beverage brands or somethinglike that.
So one is recall are you top ofmind, somebody just says your
name, but the other isrecognition.
(15:38):
somebody may not say, gimme yourfive favorite workouts.
They might not say Fhittingroom, but maybe they say like
the green one, or they see thathair tie and they're like, oh,
that's from Fhitting room.
All of that just acceleratesyour customer journey.
So that's on the tangibles, onthe intangibles in some ways.
I mean, these are equally asimportant, if not more important
(16:00):
from like the total businessperspective.
they're really the backbone ofyour business.
So if you have a reallywell-defined brand, it's going
to make everything else easier.
So when you are, hiringsomebody, for example, do they.
they a cultural fit?
what's that culture like?
Those are your brandintangibles.
(16:22):
When you are deciding, what newworkshop to offer or a different
class type, does it fit within,how you define your brand.
your messaging, strategicpartnerships.
Does this partner fit our brandor doesn't it?
Is the tagline does it fit ourbrand?
Are we irreverent or is it tooirreverent?
(16:44):
'cause we're a family friendlybrand, but the more well defined
your brand is and your brandvoice, the easier all your other
decisions are.
'cause it takes options off thetable.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (16:55):
Yep.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (16:55):
one that I think of most was, like you
mentioned we're in New York and.
New York studios were closed foran excessively long time After
the pandemic over a year, and alot of studios started to open
before they were technicallyallowed to open of Fhitting
rooms.
Brand values is integrity.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (17:16):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (17:17):
And we would sit in these meetings and be
like, darn that integrity value,because integrity meant we
couldn't have someone in ourcommunity be offended that we
weren't following the safetyprotocols of our city.
And while it was frustrating insome ways, because you wanna
just see revenue coming, andagain, you don't wanna lose your
(17:37):
customer relationships, also itwent against our brand values.
So it just, it was off thetable, so it was one less.
Big decision that, that I had towrestle with.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (17:50):
Yeah.
I do think that's important totalk about when you talk about
your mission, vision, andvalues, which I think a lot of
business owners I did for manyyears.
poo-pooed that whole thing.
I was like, yeah, they're all inmy head.
Yeah.
I, I, I, everyone knows what westand for, whatever.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (18:02):
years into Fhitting room.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (18:04):
Too.
Yeah, but you, you really.
Live your values.
I will say that, I mean, I thinkall of us in the group are like,
Kari Saitowitz is the culturequeen.
It was very important to you,but I do respect that you stuck
by it because I also say when Italk about core values, I do
(18:24):
think it's something that yourbusiness reeks of.
I thought that was a greatexample when you said can, if
you go blindfolded, it's afeeling that you get and.
It's something that you don'tcompromise on.
So the fact that you saidintegrity is one of your things
and you did not compromise whenit got really hard to say and
(18:47):
you guys were closed for so longto really sit in it and say,
this is part of our value.
We have to.
Stick to it.
'cause some people will caveduring those tough times and
say, forget it, this is now moreimportant.
I will say, can you put yourowner hat on just for a second
(19:08):
and we'll just segue tomarketing.
'Cause I think this is animportant aspect and I think my
listeners will, resonate withthis.
How difficult sometimes is it?
When you're really trying tobuild a culture and a value and
a vision and actually lead fromthe front as an owner, when
there are people on your teamthat you might have to say no
(19:31):
to, or you might have to get offthe bus or a client or a
business decision.
So from a business owner hat,how does that feel?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (19:43):
I mean, I think, you know how hard it can
be.
I mean, sometimes as anindividual I wanna make one
decision, but as a businessowner who's.
Staying true to what we'vedefined, it's like it doesn't
(20:03):
fit.
Or, there may be a marketingpartner that I think could open
up a new.
A new pool of clients to us, butit might be a marketing partner
that somebody on my team has hada bad experience with and raises
their hand and it's like, okay,then it's off the table.
(20:24):
so it, it could be really hardand I think it's hardest when
you know that you've been.
Treating people a certain wayconsistently or doing things a
certain way.
And then the perception by someindividual, whether it's
internal or external, is likethe complete opposite what you
(20:47):
have been committed to.
and.
Also part of that integrity isthis, taking the high road.
So everybody has a microphonethese days and there have
certainly been situations wherepeople will blast either myself
personally or the company aboutsomething, some form of
(21:09):
treatment in some way.
And it's like I might have 25data points to the complete
contrary, and i'm taking
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (21:18):
You have to eat it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (21:19):
like, you
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (21:20):
You have to eat it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (21:21):
is so, so hard.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (21:24):
It's really hard and it's very
personal.
when we, when we do everythingin our power as, as owners and
colleagues to do what's right byour team, and someone turns
around and blasts us and thenthe, the perception is that
we're these awful people.
Meanwhile, we've had thosepeople in our home for.
(21:46):
Dinner.
We've invited them when theydidn't have family in town for
holiday meals.
We've given them loans or raisesor allowed them to do certain
things and then they turn aroundand we become the bad person.
But you're right, it's reallyhard as owners sometimes to take
the high road.
So, all right, we'll segue.
I just wanted people,'cause I dothink sometimes there's a
perception that when you reach acertain echelon that you're oh,
(22:09):
five studios in that.
We get removed from theseproblems and one thing I like to
tell everyone is the problemsare the same.
A lot of times they're just onscale, right?
So
Kari Saitowitz-2 (22:20):
I was gonna say there's
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (22:21):
they're just bigger.
There's more of them.
So they, running five locationshas just as many people saying
mean things about her, whetherit's clients or staff as
anybody.
So.
Okay, so now you have brandfirst.
Um, I love that.
I do think it's important whenyou're looking at someone's
brand, when you're looking attheir Instagram, when you're
(22:43):
looking at their website, thatit's is consistent.
So color, fonts, um, photos,filters, those kind of things.
So now let's take that intomarketing.
And so when we look atmarketing.
Again, if I say anythingincorrect, please correct me,
(23:03):
but marketing basically meanstelling the market that you
exist.
So going to find clients thatare going to, in our business,
hopefully pay us for services.
Can you list a couple differentways that business owners can
market their business fromorganic free marketing to paid
(23:25):
bigger budgets, marketing.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (23:28):
Sure.
marketing, you were saying,it's, it's so large.
So I always say if you're in aclassroom setting, you learn
marketing as the four Ps, right?
And the first one is product,right?
You have product, pricing,promotions and place.
But so it starts with product.
and so I always say I think oneof the best ways to get your
brand out there, if you're atthe beginning of your journey,
(23:50):
but you could really do this atany point, is first talking to
people about.
So you could do this through,focus groups, one-on-one
interviews.
I used to take groups of moms atmy kids' schools to lunches.
And first just ask them aboutwhat's meeting their
expectations, what isn't meetingtheir expectations?
(24:11):
If they had a magic wand, whatwould they change?
Like, do they come in the firstplace?
What keeps them coming back?
So the first thing is just makesure you're completely honed in
on your unique sellingproposition, and the only way to
do that is to find out from yourcustomers, because it doesn't
matter what you think your brandis at all, it matters what they
think it is.
Once you have that, now you haveto, now you know your messaging
(24:34):
and you have to be superconsistent.
But I think ironically, the mosteffective things, especially for
small businesses, are free.
I don't think paid worksparticularly well for small
businesses because they don'thave brand awareness, so
community driven.
Content.
So start with like your memberstories, your transformation
(24:55):
spotlight.
Like when you showcase somebody,they share that with everybody
they know.
Others see you showcasing andcelebrating somebody's story or
journey, and they aspire to bethat person.
So you have that.
You have your instructors, yourinstructors, and their word of
mouth is.
(25:15):
So you wanna create a spacewhere you know they want to
spend their time and they'redoing what it is you do in your
spaces.
So at Fhitting room, thetrainers are in there working
out all the time and they'reconstantly filming themselves
'cause it's just what they do.
But we make it so that.
It, feels like where they wannado this as opposed to them doing
(25:37):
it somewhere else.
showcasing whenever your clientsare posting, you want them
taking selfies, you want themtagging you, you wanna then
share that on your feeds so thatthey have their five minutes of
fame.
They feel seen, they feelrecognized.
a lot harder to stop going tothe place that, knows you're
coming than it is to stop goingto this anonymous location.
(26:01):
but you're also celebrating thatthey're there.
So we have I.
Little phrases on our mirrorsthat encourage, people wanna
take pictures of them inside thelockers.
Not everybody wants to takephotos of themselves.
We have like an easel sign onthe sidewalk that has cute
things.
We have little sayings insidethe lockers, and people will
often take pictures of thosethings.
(26:23):
and I mean, boutique fitnessspecifically, but I think all
small businesses, it thrives onrelationships.
So just, I mean.
Taking the time to build thoseone-on-one relationships at the
desk.
knowing people's names, what'sgoing on in their lives, that's
all huge as far as marketingchannels.
(26:43):
Anything you do, you kind ofreally wanna be hyper-local.
So marketing partnerships, Ilook around like the
neighborhood that my studios arein.
What are other businesses thatare not competitive but attract
the same clients?
So maybe it's a retailer, maybeit's a service provider, A
hairdresser or whatever it is.
So we've done partnerships withlike dry bars, we've done
(27:06):
partnerships with retailers.
if you're getting the word out,if that's your objective, offer
like gifts with purchase.
hey, if they've got customerswho are spending over, I don't
know, you name the number,$100,$200, whatever it is, they've
got people with disposableincome.
Give them a class to drop inthat shopping bag as like a gift
with purchase or something likethat.
(27:27):
So you're qualifying that personas somebody who has disposable
income, and now you're kind ofsurprising and delighting them.
So why would that partner sayno?
You're literally giving themsomething where they can
surprise and delight their bestcustomers.
And now you're hopefully gettingyour name out there.
One of the best partnerships wedid early on at our, flagship
(27:49):
studio for many years was withthis company called Hello
Alfred.
And they were a conciergecompany for, York.
People who don't have doormen,it's hard to get deliveries and.
Get your drycleaning and allthis stuff.
And so they basically performedthat service for a bunch of
apartment buildings right aroundwhere our gym was.
And so we had them, attached tothe bags.
(28:12):
Just
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (28:12):
Oh.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (28:13):
a little collateral about what we did
with our intro offer and we, itjust got the word out to people
who lived right there.
and the reality is you reallywanna be within a, in a city
within a probably half a mile ofradius and suburbs.
I would say probably stillwithin a three to five mile
radius.
You probably know better thanme, but who are those companies?
(28:37):
affiliate partnerships.
So there may be partnershipswhere you're, you're sharing a
discount code for somebodyelse's brand with your
customers.
Maybe they're doing the same foryou, but it feels like a perk
for each.
And you each get some sort of afinancial kickback.
So you're growing revenues, notjust your potential.
client pool.
(28:58):
SEO is an interesting one.
Now, there's a million freetools out there where you can
run your website through freeSEO tools.
when we were talkingconsistency, so before, I feel
like it was consistency in allthose tangible things.
Now, consistency in messaging isjust as important because all of
these, LLM models and crawlersthat are feeding your brand or
(29:20):
your product to people.
They need consistent messaging.
So if your content sayssomething different on your
website, then it says on yourYelp page, then it says on your
Google listing, then it says inblog posts or something, you're
falling to the bottom ofeverybody's algorithm.
So, really clear messaging.
if you do spend any money onmarketing, I would say hyper.
(29:45):
Targeted.
sometimes I just do things forNew York Sports Club, if we redo
a gym, we do sidewalk stickers,just, around the blocks that
surround the gym.
it's super cheap, but you'rejust telling a bunch of people
who maybe know your gym's beenthere for 50 years, but it's all
new, everything inside, stepinside to look.
so really hyper-local referraland rewards program.
(30:07):
So word of mouth should be yourprobably number one customer
acquisition channel.
For small business tool, small,it doesn't have to be fancy and
tech enabled.
It could be something reallysimple and manual to
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (30:21):
Yep.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (30:21):
know, especially if you're small.
but anything that rewards yourcustomers for spreading, the
word outs again.
I went back to some emails from2016 on the call this week and
there were emails saying wecan't afford to give out a free
class when somebody hits certainmilestones, but we just had the
(30:41):
instructors, sort of put a big
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (30:43):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (30:43):
the room and shout them out.
And so it doesn't always have tobe something that's going to
handcuff you financially.
Short form videos.
if you've got clients makingthem great, share them.
If you've got instructors makingthem share them, they can be
really, really quick.
I think that the fallacy is thatyou need something to go viral.
(31:07):
what good does it do you to have10 million views on a video if
nobody lives in yourneighborhood?
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (31:13):
Right.
Totally true.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (31:14):
it just doesn't matter.
And then I would say, don'tforget about retention.
So
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (31:19):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (31:19):
one of the biggest lessons in marketing is
it's way more expensive to docustomer acquisition than it is
to do retention.
So, basic automations, that justkeep touch points with people.
you don't wanna make people feelbad.
not coming, if they're kind oflapsed, but just checking in,
just maybe telling them aboutsomething new that's happening
(31:42):
it doesn't have to be thosemessages that make you feel
really guilty or like almostembarrassed to step foot back in
the door.
I would say I would be reallycareful with wording of those
lapsed customer emails, but, acadence that works for you at
Fhitting room.
We do.
A newsletter every week at NewYork Sports Club.
We do a member newsletter once amonth.
It just kind of depends on howengaged the different
(32:05):
communities are.
You wanna strike that balancebetween delivering and not
getting, having peopleunsubscribe.
targeted offers, to likespecific cohorts of people.
You don't wanna go on sale everyday to everyone.
You have customers who are thereall the time and they're happy
to pay full price.
So really targeted like cohorts,when you are running a
(32:28):
promotion, different language todifferent user groups, like
emails that go out to somebodywho comes to us on a third
party.
Booking membership are going tobe totally different than an
email that's going to somebodywho, buys directly, but maybe
infrequently, versus somebodywho comes all the time at full
price.
So I would just say, reallyhyper targeted.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (32:51):
Those are really, really great ideas.
And I do agree that a lot ofpeople forget about retention
and re-engagement'causeeveryone's so focused on like
leads, leads, leads, leads,leads, especially marketing
companies are promoting get moreleads in the door.
But part of that full marketingfunnel is that.
(33:12):
They're moving from awareness toconsideration, a purchase, and
then it's retention andreengagement at the end.
And if we don't plug the bottomof that funnel, people just keep
falling out.
And so.
Like our win back series.
I think the subject line waslike, are your ears ringing?
And it was like, oh, we've beentalking about you at the studio.
We haven't seen you in a while.
(33:33):
We'd love for you to come backin with technology.
Now there's a lot of ways youcan automate these things.
you can track the.
Re-engagement campaign, like howmuch revenue are you re-engage
with that campaign?
And sometimes people are like,it's a nice gesture.
I think people just like yousaid, or they see someone with a
(33:55):
hair tie on the train andthey're like, I have to make an
appointment to go back toFhitting room.
I have been off.
So everything that you said isvery accurate and I think.
What I would, what I think toois that we don't have to do
everything at once.
maybe one season you're like,okay, this season, this quarter,
or this year, I'm gonna reallyfocus on my re-engagement and
(34:17):
retention strategies.
I'm gonna get my emails done,I'm gonna figure out the tech,
I'm gonna get the automations.
And then you can, you don't haveto do everything all at the same
time.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:28):
That's right.
In fact, I would say youshouldn't because you probably
won't do anything.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (34:32):
Right.
Or Well, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:34):
you start with the absolute basics.
I would start with your website,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (34:39):
Yes, I.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:39):
great about the copy and the imagery on your
website?
have a place for people tosubmit their email or a popup on
a first timer page or something,right?
You want some lead capture andyou wanna feel great about the
language because then thatshould be the language that you
use
Christa Gurka | Fit (34:58):
Everywhere.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (34:59):
everything else.
So I feel you start there andyou start with Making sure your
Google listing is done or yourApple business account, because
that's how you show up.
in Apple Maps or in Google Mapsor in Uber and stuff like that.
And it's we don't think aboutthese things as being sexy
marketing
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (35:17):
Right,
Kari Saitowitz-2 (35:18):
but getting that stuff right will help drive
more traffic to your businessthan,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (35:24):
course.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (35:24):
having one video reach 10 million
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (35:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause if you have a shittywebsite.
it, and then you're gonna runads.
You're running ads to a shittywebsite, that's just throwing
money down the toilet, it reallyis.
So, get your website.
Well, and it doesn't have to bea 75 page website, it just
branding clear font, a reallyclean user experience.
(35:50):
Right.
Because if you go to a website,I just, like you said, it's like
an extension of who you are andit should match.
Your brand, right?
So if your website is got a lotof words and there's all sorts
of links everywhere, at leastfor me, the feeling I get as a
consumer is I'm oh my God, thisis anxiety producing and that's
(36:11):
not what I want.
So I'm automatically no, thankyou.
Right?
Or one of the things I see onboutique fitness, either their
Instagram or their website isI'm where are you?
Where are you?
where's, where are you?
You know, if you're inManhattan, what part of
Manhattan are you in?
Right?
If I'm looking at your Instagrampage, I wanna see on your
(36:33):
Instagram bio where are you?
What part of the country are youin?
Because if you're not in Miamiand I can't go visit you
locally, I wanna know.
So those are very simple thingspeople can do.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (36:45):
That's right.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Stra (36:46):
So I would say a lot, I think a lot
of people feel, I hear this allthe time on my calls, oh, it's
so crowded.
The market is super saturated.
And well, one, I'd love to askyou what your opinion of that
is.
Is it super saturated,especially in the boutique
fitness, industry?
And if so, yes or no?
(37:07):
how can we get above the noise,basically?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (37:10):
So there's no question there's kind of
competition.
I personally feel like it's beenthis way since at least 2018,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (37:19):
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (37:19):
in New York.
I think it's a little bitdifferent, when you get into
some smaller markets.
but I think there's good newsand bad news.
I think there was a time whenthere was a ton of capital
available to To some of theseboutiques, investors were just
throwing money at startupboutiques and there were some
(37:40):
really unsustainable businessmodels.
So there was a time where it wasalmost impossible to hire an
instructor at a reasonable costbecause well-funded businesses
were we'll pay you
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (37:51):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (37:52):
to teach a class.
I think the good news is we'reentering, a new phase where
there's still a lot ofcompetition, but I think that.
It's a much more rationalmarket.
I think that people are muchmore focused on profit and
sustainable business models.
we are seeing some consolidationof some of the biggest players
(38:13):
that expanded really quickly.
but I think that doors opening,thinking more about their cost
structures, which I think sets amore level playing field,
whether you are big or small.
So I think that part is good.
I think.
At one time messaging was moreabout the, the celebrity trainer
(38:35):
or who is teaching the class asopposed to what the workout is
and what the benefits of theworkout is.
And I feel like right now, evensome of those brands that were
very celebrity driven are alsobecause even they can't afford
those big anymore, you know,everything's much more about the
benefits.
And so I think.
(38:57):
From a smaller business, youalmost have the advantage of
being able to get reallypersonal.
And so focusing on, what is ityou do making sure that what you
do is what people desire.
So if you find that.
(39:19):
You're suffering and you're notseeing retention.
I would have conversations andfind out why people aren't
coming back.
Is pricing off?
Is it the modality?
Is it the workout?
Is it how people are beingtreated?
And so, but you have thatability to really go deep and
dig in.
but I think, you know, I dothink competition is fierce.
(39:42):
I really feel like you can be aspecial place.
Like Fhitting Room at this pointhas one wholly owned studio in
New York City and one licensedlocation in New Jersey.
But performance of that studiois actually better than it's
ever been.
and the engagement is throughthe roof.
We've had a referral and rewardsprogram for years, but we just
(40:03):
launched a new one.
That's built into the app lessthan a month ago.
we already have 50% of clientswho have walked through the door
are enrolled and 50% of them arecurrently in the first challenge
that we're running
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (40:21):
Wow.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (40:21):
new program.
And that is guy high engagement.
because we're small andeverybody feels like they have a
personal relationship with.
With the team, they live closeby.
It's easy.
It falls into their dailyroutine.
They have a workout that getsthem benefits.
But also we keep evolving.
So we ask questions.
(40:42):
We'll launch Progressive series.
We launched workshops.
We'll, we've launched recentlyan advanced, kettlebells class.
But as people progress, we haveto evolve and progress too.
So you don't wanna just.
Set your brand in stone and thennever revisit it.
It kind of all goes together,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (41:02):
What do they say?
My menopause brain's gonnaforget it.
But if you're not growing yourdying type situation, you kind
of have to, you know, you kindof have to grow the time.
So I think that that actuallyrolls into.
AI a little bit and I think, Ithink we're gonna say I, so Kari
Saitowitz is coming to speak atthe Women and Wellness Business
(41:23):
Summit.
Again, I'm so grateful she'scoming to join me in November,
and I think we actually onlyhave five spots available.
I'm gonna link it in the shownotes, but we are gonna talk a
lot about AI at the summit.
But I did wanna just ask you aquick question and just in terms
of.
How are you seeing AI be a newplayer in the boutique fitness
(41:48):
industry?
And even, especially when itcomes to marketing,'cause I know
people that are using it astheir copywriter.
I know people that are using itas their brand strategist.
So what are you seeing on yourside and both just the world of
boutique fitness and then inbusiness in general.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (42:07):
I think at this point most people are using
AI to help with copywriting,brainstorming campaign ideas,
hopefully executing a contentstrategy helping with
brainstorming blog ideas, blogcontent.
Also remember to fact checkeverything.
assisting with scripts.
(42:27):
all that stuff.
I think sort of the next tier upis there's been Different
analyses I've done over theyears of diff, our promotions
that we run.
And I never can get the exactdata that I want out of the
reports from the POS system.
And it usually takes me a day ortwo to crunch together data from
a whole bunch of differentreports and pivot tables and and
(42:50):
a whole bunch of stuff to getthe data I want.
So now I throw a lot of.
Those reports into AI and tellit what I want and that's a huge
time saver.
So I would say data analysis, Ialso at the moment am running,
so for Fhitting room.
We're not running paid ads forNew York Sports Club.
I'm running paid ads.
I'm running them all on an AIplatform right now.
(43:12):
So my team is no longer writingtaglines are handing off
creative.
We are not using AI creative inthis sense of generative, the
whole creative.
Ai, but the AI picks from all ofthe assets that belong to the
brand that exist in, out therein the world.
and then on the backend, I havethe ability to X out if it's
(43:33):
picking up anything, I don'twant it to showcase.
it's just imagine ab testing atthe scale of hundreds of
thousands of ads and audiencesin a month.
So You know, traditionally it'syou run a campaign, a paid
campaign in particular, it hasyour two week learning.
and then if you wanna make achange, you go back to the
(43:54):
beginning and you have yourmaybe eight pieces of creative
at a time and a couple ab testsand your different audiences,
and sometimes you're gosh, Ineed to think of new audiences.
'cause I feel this audienceisn't working.
This is just seamlessly doingall of that at a rapid fire.
what I actually love about itmost, I mean, it is super
(44:15):
efficient.
It takes a lot of the lift offof my team in terms of resizing
creative for different,
Christa Gurka | Fit B (44:22):
platform.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (44:23):
it just does all that seamlessly, but I could
set the budget at the perlocation level and set my little
radius.
I don't have to have this groupof all New York City clubs.
It's just really nimble.
It's really flexible.
I can make changes like a dime.
I'm not creating all thecreated, it is getting me lower,
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (44:45):
Cost.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (44:46):
lower cost per lead.
More importantly is that it'stotally transparent.
I have a dashboard.
I'm not waiting on an agencyreport where the agency report
might tell me that my cost perlead has gone down by 50%.
And I'm it's such a headscratcher'cause I'm spending the
same amount of money and I'm notseeing twice as many leads.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz (45:05):
Right.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (45:06):
And so are we just putting the same ads in
front of the same person or infront of the person who was
going to come in anyway, butwe're just shoving an ad in
their way?
Like are the attribution models,right?
Like there's all thesequestions, is a dashboard and I
log in, it's totallytransparent, and if something's
out of whack, I'm what happenedhere?
What happened there?
(45:27):
It's not perfect, but it is easyand I'm spending a fraction of
what I used to spend on paidadvertising without seeing my
leads go down.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (45:37):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (45:38):
I just think it's more honest maybe
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (45:40):
Yeah.
It's a, it's a machine, so youtake out the human component of
them trying to sell you, youknow.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (45:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I will say that, as far asbusiness in general, I mean.
There are times sometimes I'llsit down.
I had to do an interview guide.
I was hiring a new digitalmarketing manager a couple of
months ago and the night beforemy first interviews, I pulled up
my interview guide that I hadused to hire my prior digital
marketing manager, except it wasfour and a half years ago it was
(46:11):
like in the morning when I waslooking at this and I was like,
oh my God, I can't believe howlong ago I wrote this interview
guide.
I'm really tired and I just tookthe job description for the
current job and I plugged itinto AI and was like, write me
an interview guide that wouldtake
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (46:30):
Love it.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (46:31):
to get through.
and it was like.
Mostly pretty good.
But then I was like, oh, I feellike there's some brand specific
stuff that I wanna add.
Here's my old interview guide,but it's four and a half years
ago, so take it with a grain ofsalt.
but just can you integrate someof the brand specific stuff?
And I mean, it's like
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Stra (46:49):
So easy.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (46:51):
so I mean, I think there's a million job
descriptions.
I tend to, I spend my timegetting all of my thoughts down
in.
Sort of a brain dump into chatGPT so that it can then give me
really well-informed output.
And it's funny, sometimes I getannoyed now.
I was telling my husband theother day, I was like, I had
(47:13):
this email.
It was like a real doozy and Iwanted to be really thoughtful
and really respectful and reallystrategic.
But also it was something that,I had some concerns with.
And.
I was like an email, crafting anemail like that would've taken
me maybe like a half a day in mylike prior life because I'd
(47:33):
really wanna get all of it justright.
The tone, the content, all ofit.
And I was like, it's so funny'cause it probably took me maybe
five to 10.
Maybe 15 minutes to get all ofmy concerns into chat.
GPT, like, I'm concerned, I'mgonna sound like this or, but I
really wanna get this pointacross.
(47:54):
I just, it was gobbledigook,what I put in, but it was a
brain dump of all my thoughts.
And then I was like, can youplease?
And I was like, here's the emailI'm responding to.
just.
the whole thing in, help craft aresponse.
And I, I mean, I did obviouslymanipulation of it afterwards,
my gosh, it was so helpful just
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (48:13):
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (48:14):
that initial, you know, just trying to bring
it all together, when you arefeeling so all over the place.
you know, so I, I use it for, Imean, endless
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strat (48:25):
I do too.
I use it for everything.
And again, helping with email,brain dumping in there, asking
it what are my options if I wantto do that.
I've actually asked it to.
I'm getting a, this warning onmy Google Ads account Act as a
Google Ads expert and tell mewhere I need to go find, how do
I need to troubleshoot this?
(48:46):
I I do think if people aren'tleveraging the power of ai,
they're falling behind the eightball a little bit.
but we're definitely gonna talkabout AI in the upcoming summit.
So I'm very, very excited aboutthat and I'm very excited for
Kari to be down.
She's gonna be sitting on ourmarketing panel, which is gonna
be held Friday, November 7th.
(49:07):
so you'll be able to ask KariSaitowitz all sorts of marketing
questions.
She comes, I said, with aplethora of information, and I'm
actually gonna take some of the,the information that you gave me
today in this podcast and evenmaybe ask you when you're down
in the summit, like how do youadvise.
Approaching local retailers orbusiness owners to start that
(49:31):
type of partnership.
'cause I think implementationfor people is the hard part.
Like that sounds like a greatidea.
How do I initiate theconversation?
And so I think that might be areally great topic on the panel.
So I'm gonna take some of these,some of what you said and make
actual questions and people willget to ask you in real life as
well.
So can you let people know wherethey can find you?
(49:54):
They should follow Fhittingroom, which we're gonna link
everything in the show notes.
And Fhitting room is spelledF-H-I-T-T-I-N-G.
New York Sports Club is anotherplace.
anything else you wanna sharewhere people can check you out?
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:08):
I do read my LinkedIn messages.
I don't respond to the spamones.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz S (50:13):
Okay,
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:13):
same thing.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (50:14):
good enough.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:15):
also, I'm not quite of the TikTok age.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Str (50:19):
I'm not, don't worry, I'm not
either, even though I doomscroll on that platform way,
way, way too much.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:25):
I think I'm logged in as my son on my phone.
I definitely mess up hisalgorithm.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Stra (50:30):
Oh God, for sure.
Yeah, no, I'm, I just doomscroll on there.
So I, my feet is all puppies andcollege dorm rooms, situations
right now since I just moved mykids back to school.
So.
Kari Saitowitz-2 (50:40):
right.
Christa Gurka | Fit Biz St (50:41):
Kari Saitowitz, thank you so much for
coming on.
And again, for those of you thatwanna see and meet Kari
Saitowitz in person, you cancheck out my website at
christagurka.com look under theCEO summit, which is happening
November 6th and seventh, 2025in Miami.
I am also gonna link theregistration, to the show notes
(51:02):
below.
I think we are really down toour last.
Three spots.
So we cap it at 30 businesses.
So it's small and intimate andreally some great learning.
So thank you, Kari again, anduntil next time, my friends, I'm
so excited.
I can't wait to see you again inNovember.
Bye for now, everyone.
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