October 1, 2024 • 47 mins
In this episode of the Femme Cyclist podcast, we're diving deep into the mental side of cycling with sport psychologist Dr. Erin Ayala. In our chat, Erin shares invaluable insights on some of the biggest challenges we face as cyclists, from that pesky habit of comparing ourselves to others to finding the motivation to train.
We also tackle the topic of burnout and how to strike a bike-life balance, so that cycling remains a source of joy, not stress. Erin's down-to-earth advice will help you set realistic goals, get up the courage to sign up for that race, and keep pushing forward even when things get tough.
If you've ever struggled with self-doubt, felt overwhelmed by juggling it all, or simply needed a little extra motivation to get out the door, this episode is for you.
👉 Full show notes: https://femmecyclist.com/erin-ayala-interview
🔥 Get 50% off all Femme Cyclist training plans with coupon code PODCAST 50 https://shop.femmecyclist.com/product-category/training-plans/
Connect With Erin
👉 Instagram: @skadisportpsychology
👉 Website: https://www.skadisportpsychology.com/
👉Instagram: @femme_cyclist
👉Website: https://femmecyclist.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Bonkoski (00:00):
In this episode of the Femme Cyclist
Podcast, we're diving deep intothe mental side of cycling with
sports psychologist Erin Ayala.
In our chat, erin sharesinvaluable insights on some of
the biggest challenges we faceas cyclists, from that pesky
habit of comparing ourselves toothers to finding the motivation
(00:22):
to train.
We also tackle the topic ofburnout and how to strike a bike
life balance.
So cycling remains a source ofjoy, not stress.
Erin's down-to-earth advicewill help you set realistic
goals, get up the courage tosign up for that race and keep
pushing forward, even whenthings get tough.
(00:45):
If you've ever struggled withself-doubt, felt overwhelmed by
juggling it all, or simplyneeded a little extra motivation
to get out the door, thisepisode is for you.
Real quick.
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Head to femcyclistcom to getstarted today.
Who can benefit from workingwith a sports psychologist?
Erin Ayala (01:36):
The easy answer is anyone.
So I think one of the bigthings with sports psychology a
lot of people feel like theyneed to be like pro or elite or
serious about whatever sport itis that they're doing and
honestly, it couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
I have a lot of clients whowouldn't even call themselves
athletes, and so there's a hugecontinuum.
(01:59):
I think people who couldbenefit are people who might be
feeling a little bit lost andkind of finding their why.
They may have started riding orrunning or another sport for
one reason and for a lot ofpeople, for example, it might be
to get healthier or to findcommunity and then that reason
has kind of shifted and theymight be feeling a little bit
(02:19):
lost and want to kind of unpacktheir athletic identity.
Sports psych is awesome forthat Mental health concerns
anyone who has a history ofmental health concerns and then
it starts to leak into, likebike life balance.
Sports psych can be reallyhelpful venue because the sports
psychologist is kind of goingto get that athletic identity
(02:41):
component and understanding howit affects mental health in
general.
I think other things race to.
Anxiety is huge and wildlycommon and sports psych can
definitely help with those sortsof things.
And then another big theme thatI often see, actually two more
like confidence, kind ofself-doubt sense of in, um, am I
(03:03):
a good enough athlete?
Just some of that identitystuff.
And then the final thing isathletic injury can be really
big, Um, and that can alsoinclude like complex and chronic
health concerns, chronic pain,Um, perimenopause symptoms is
another thing that is having amoment for a good reason now,
and you know that definitelyaffects athletic identity and
athletic performance for femaleathletes, and so lots of
(03:26):
different opportunities forsports psych to come into play.
Kristen Bonkoski (03:31):
So it's good for everybody.
When does it change from beinga nice to have to a must have?
Who, would you absolutely say,needs to get in to see somebody
like you?
Erin Ayala (03:41):
Totally.
Yeah, such a great question.
I think some of the big redflags are when, like, mental
health concerns really start tobubble up and affect your
ability to find joy andsatisfaction in sport.
So it feels like a grind.
It's not just a funker plateauin the sense that it lasts a few
(04:02):
weeks or longer, if you know.
It's normal, for example, tohave post-race blues after, like
a really big event that youmight be training for.
But if after four to six weeks,like, you're still not feeling
motivated, that's usually a signthat there might be something
deeper going on.
So mental health concerns areusually the biggest thing and
(04:23):
it's also things where it's likeaffecting multiple areas of
life, where it's not just sport,it's also affecting family
relationships or how you feelabout yourself, your ability to
work in a really engaged orproductive manner and show up as
the person you want to be.
And sports psych is kind of afunky field which we'll get a
little bit into.
(04:43):
But on one side of the Venndiagram is mental health and
then on other side isperformance, and so it's like
when the mental health stuffstarts to leak into the
performance stuff, that'susually a sign that it's time to
make a phone call, do somesearches and find someone who
can help for backup.
Kristen Bonkoski (05:01):
You mentioned earlier bike life balance.
What did you mean by that?
Erin Ayala (05:05):
Yes, biking especially takes a lot of time,
especially when training forlonger races, for any like long,
like gravel, for example.
I do unbound every year and thelong rides are just like.
I'll look at my weekendcalendar and be like, oh my gosh
, I'm just going to be ridingall weekend, which is fun, but
(05:27):
like what about laundry and mealprep and like time with my
family, self-care, all of theseother things?
It starts to feel reallyoverwhelming, especially at the
kind of the height of the seasonwhen you're getting a lot of
volume in and so bike lifebalance is going to look a
little bit different foreveryone, but it can create
(05:48):
quite a bit of strain onrelationships and then other
areas of our life when it startsto take over more kind of more
of a footprint or more of ablueprint or more real estate in
our brain, and so it's tryingto have realistic expectations
of being.
It might be for family, forexample.
Let's say you're training foran event and your goal is to
(06:10):
like finish a 100 mile ride,talking to anyone in the family
or significant other and beinglike, hey, the next couple of
weeks are going to be reallybusy because this is my biggest
build.
So like apologies and thank youin advance for letting me let
things go with laundry orcleaning or going to your games
(06:31):
or activities or skipping out ondinners because I want to go to
bed early.
Just, I think being reallyproactive with those boundaries
is important because then youdon't start to feel resentful or
some of that kind of quote,unquote, mom guilt or other
things that can show up forparents or other people who like
to give and spend time withothers.
Kristen Bonkoski (06:49):
Yeah, one thing that I know that I've
always kind of used biking assomething to deal with anxiety,
with depression.
It's really important for mymental health, and I think that
that's true of a lot ofendurance athletes.
We get into it for that mentalhealth component.
When does it, though, become acrutch?
Is it ever an issue using sportas kind of this mental health?
Erin Ayala (07:12):
totally.
I think it's often.
I think it often starts as acrutch or like it's.
It starts as a coping mechanismand then what can happen?
Especially if we get injured?
The rug is pulled out fromunder us and then we don't have
that coping mechanism anymoreand then we really start to
struggle.
And so I always say, like we'vegot to have multiple coping
(07:32):
mechanisms in the tool belt.
Exercise can be one of them andarguably should be.
Like research supports thebenefits of exercise.
We know that.
So then it's like askingyourself why am I going out for
this ride, is it?
I always say get curious.
Like don't judge yourself rightaway, like our minds love to
judge.
That was a good ride, that wasa bad ride, whatever it might be
(07:54):
.
But just get curious.
What's motivating me to get onthe bike right now or to go to
the gym, or whatever it might be?
Is it feeling of guilt, or likefalling behind, or the scarcity
of like other people are doingmore than I am, so I need to do
more.
Or is it more of like I had astressful day?
I just need some alone time andthen start to kind of unpack
(08:15):
your relationship with exercise,because it can start to get
problematic when you feel likethis urgency or this need to do
it and you feel like you don'thave other coping skills.
So this other stress managementskills are super important to
help you with that balancebecause then exercise you won't
burn out as quickly, less likelyto get injured.
(08:35):
But then if you're unable touse that outlet for one reason
or another, you've got backups.
Kristen Bonkoski (08:41):
Yeah, you mentioned post-race blues and I
think that's such a relatablething for me.
Every time I do a race, I havelike a day or two afterward
where I have this huge high lifeis great and I've never felt
better, and then like this downand what comes next?
How do you deal with that?
Erin Ayala (08:59):
That's super common and you'll also find a lot of
endurance.
Athletes will like go straightto the like online blogs and
being like, what race can I signup for next?
I'm going to bike reg locationsand like, oh, I've got really
good fitness, like what's mynext thing, right?
So there's a couple of thingsto think about with this.
One is post-race blues aresuper common and it just as you
(09:22):
described.
The first couple of days you'relike, oh, that was amazing.
And then you're still restingand recovering from a really
hard effort, so your volumeisn't as big.
And then if you don't haveanother race or event on the
calendar, you may not havestructure.
So you may be looking at, like,if you use training peaks or
work with a coach, it's likeblank or all rest days, and that
(09:43):
creates anxiety for a lot ofathletes because it's like
what's our next thing that we'reworking toward?
So post-race blues usually showup as kind of this just kind of
blah attitude.
You may not feel as motivated.
You might feel like the fatigue, both emotionally and
physically.
You might be a little moreirritable, like more I don't
(10:05):
know, just like not wanting tokind of get out and do things.
It's just kind of a thunk or a,if it lasts and this is one of
those things where, if it lastsmore than like two to three
weeks, then there might besomething deeper going on, um,
which could just be burnout,like athletic burnout, right, um
(10:26):
.
But often it's this like Idon't know what's next for me,
and this kind of aimlessness andwhat am I working toward next.
And so then we'll go to thesetraining calendars or event
calendars and look for our nextthing, which there's nothing
wrong with that, as long as wedon't burn ourselves out or get
get injured from overtraining,right?
So I often ask athletes, likewhat motivated you to sign up in
the first place?
Go back to your why, um?
(10:46):
And then let's think about,like are there other areas of
your life that you'veunintentionally or intentionally
had to set aside or neglect?
Can you lean into those areasfor a little bit, um, kind of
recalibrate?
And then I encourage myathletes not to sign up for any
more, like big races in thefirst week after a big race,
cause sometimes it's more ofthat impulsivity and being like,
(11:09):
let's talk to family first.
Let's look at your workschedule, like does the travel
you know, footprint make sense?
And just helping them be moreintentional with the decision.
Kristen Bonkoski (11:17):
Yeah, I think for a lot of folks that I talked
to, they don't even recognizethe symptoms of burnout which
you mentioned, and there is aphysical component of burnout,
um, but what about the mentalpiece?
What are some of the kind ofthe signs that were mentally
burnt out and how do we dealwith that?
Erin Ayala (11:35):
Yes, um, some of the telltale signs that I'll see in
my athletes and of course it'sa little bit different for
everyone um, higher than usualor higher than normal levels of
self-criticism or like this Oneof the telltale signs of burnout
is this lack of personalachievement, or lack of personal
accomplishment of like, what Idid wasn't that big of a deal,
(11:57):
it didn't really matter, I'm notreally making a difference and
kind of questioning yourcontributions, making a
difference and kind ofquestioning your contributions.
So, if that you know, femaleathletes in general, especially
in endurance, tend to be hard onthemselves.
Yes, so it's like what is thebaseline?
And then if it is a lot higher,where it feels like more than
(12:17):
usual, that could be a burnoutsign.
Motivation is a at the end ofthe day, um, motivation is a at
the end of the day.
Burnout is a motivation problem, um, and so when motivation
really goes downhill and youstart finding yourself like
making excuses or givingyourself reasons to not do a
workout because you had a longday at work, or you're just like
(12:39):
, oh, I could use an extra restday, it was a long season, or oh
, I need to run to the grocerystore and get such and such
things that usually wouldn't getin the way of your workouts.
That's usually another signthat burnout is kind of there,
um, and then it's just like alack of interest in things like
biking, where usually it mightbe like, oh, I want to watch
(12:59):
this world cup race, and then wejust are like, eh, whatever, um
, so we're just not asinterested in like the cycling
scene and kind of reading up onthe latest and greatest.
Kristen Bonkoski (13:08):
That's also a burnout is it okay at that point
just to say I'm gonna be donefor a while yeah, yeah, the
honestly like the quote-unquotebest cure for burnout is to take
a break, okay, and just rest.
Erin Ayala (13:23):
Yeah, it's really hard for endurance athletes so
hard.
Yeah, and that's why it's liketricky too with sports psych,
because like there it could bedepression, yeah.
So that's where, like seeing asports psychologist can be
really helpful.
And when I say sportspsychologist, I mean like a
licensed mental health clinicianwho also has training in sport
(13:46):
and performance, because there'salso mental performance coaches
out there who can be amazing,but if they don't have training
in mental health therapy, theymay not know to look for
depression as a potentialexplanation for a lack of
motivation, right.
So there's like a lot of messynuances.
Lack of motivation, right?
(14:07):
So there's like a lot of messynuances and so, like, burnout
and depression can look similaron the surface, but the
treatment is and the reasonsbehind it are wildly different.
So, like, taking a break fordepression, not the best idea.
In that case, it's like nope,get your butt on the bike or
move your body in a differentway, because you know exercise
is really important.
And then you know therapy, meds, vitamin D, all of those other
(14:30):
things.
Kristen Bonkoski (14:31):
So one of the things that I personally really
matters to me is trying to getmore women to show up at races.
Yes, you know, I go to runningraces and there's usually a
pretty good percentage that arefemale.
I go to bike races and it'susually a pretty good percentage
that are female.
I go to bike races and it'susually a very small percentage
that are female.
Erin Ayala (14:49):
Yep.
Kristen Bonkoski (14:51):
I mean, obviously there are lots of
reasons for that, many of themcultural, but as far as the
mental piece, like as anindividual listening to this,
I'm interested in racing, I'mscared.
What would you say to thatperson?
I'd say, like most people are,you know, like I'm scared, what,
what?
Erin Ayala (15:05):
would you say to that person?
Yeah, I'd say, like most peopleare, you know, like most people
are scared and I'm trying tofind I think it's.
It's.
I came from the world oftriathlon, which I started with
as a runner, and then I went totriathlon and then I was like I
always joke, I was the bottom20th percentile for swimmers and
the triathlon leg, but like thetop 20th for cycling, right,
and I was like I always joke, Iwas the bottom 20th percentile
for swimmers and the triathlonleg, but like the top 20th for
(15:27):
cycling and.
Kristen Bonkoski (15:28):
I was like I'm just going to ride my bike some
more.
Erin Ayala (15:31):
This is what I'm good at, so.
But coming to the cycling scenewas really a culture shift.
It was kind of a culture shockin a lot of ways because of what
you just noted with the genderdifferences, and it was hard to
like make friends and findpeople.
So I think the advice that Ihave is you know, hop on, you
(15:52):
know Facebook groups or othercommunities where there are
women in cycling and ask themfor event recommendations in
your area.
Or if you want to getadventurous and are willing to
travel for a race, then ask forrecommendations, because some
races are way more kind ofcommunity-based and inclusive
(16:14):
than others.
And so then you're settingyourself up for success.
Even though it's scary, you'remore likely to have a really
nice time once you're there.
So that is one piece of adviceasking for help and support,
even if you feel like it's sillyor not necessary, like I
remember when I first startedriding gravel.
Like asking an Instagramconnection, like should I run
(16:37):
like 35s or 40s for my tires?
And in hindsight, like thatwasn't sure tire width can be
helpful, um, but it wouldn'thave made or broken my day, you
know.
So it like I, I had a lot ofself-doubt in questioning
equipment decisions and whatshould I wear, and, um, like
what is the start going to belike when it's a mass start and
(16:59):
we're also starting with guys,like just be willing to ask
those questions, because ifyou've got them, chances are
other women have also had thosequestions and they're happy to
share their insights.
So I say like, find other womento mentor you, for sure.
Or bring a buddy, and beinglike no expectations If we
finish, great, if we don't,that's cool too.
(17:20):
So just bring an adventure,buddy.
Kristen Bonkoski (17:24):
I saw an Instagram post I think it was
quite a while ago from you, butI really, really appreciated it
and it was about not saying, oh,at least I wasn't last, or you
know, I'm happy as long as Idon't finish last.
Erin Ayala (17:37):
At least I didn't finish last, yep yeah, at least.
Kristen Bonkoski (17:39):
I didn't finish last.
Why do you discourage that?
Yes?
Erin Ayala (17:43):
Such a like, such a loaded thing, because it's so
ingrained in a lot of us.
It's racing, so comparison isinevitable.
Right, results are online,they're posted, and the thing I
always say is there's nothingwrong with finishing last.
And so when we start to say, atleast I didn't finish last, it
(18:04):
places this value on beingfaster and like idea that being
last is a bad thing when we haveno idea for, like, the people
who have finished last, no ideawhat they have been through in
order to finish that race andfinishing maybe a huge
accomplishment.
(18:24):
And so when we compare our poorperformance or what we feel is
a disappointing performance tosomeone saying like well, at
least we didn't finish last,we're placing this like value of
like well, at least I'm notthem, or at least I'm not in
their position, which is justnot a very like fun, welcoming
(18:44):
or inclusive vibe to bring tothe sport of cycling, which can
at times be pretty like rowy,for lack of a better word Right,
yeah.
And so I think it's reallyimportant to change that culture
.
And so whenever I have athletesor clients being like what's
your goal?
And their goal is like don'tfinish last, I'll be like why
not?
What's like what if you didfinish last?
(19:05):
You could finish and show up as, like, the best, most competent
athlete you've ever been.
You could bring a whole lot ofjoy on the course, turn yourself
inside out, thank all of thevolunteers.
He will like a carb eatingchampion and finish last, and
that's still something to beproud of.
So so instead, it's likeregardless of what place you're
in, how do you want to show upon race day?
(19:27):
It's like, regardless of whatplace you're in, how do you want
to show up on race day?
That's how you make goals right, like what do I want my vibe to
be and, based off of that vibe,what would my actions and
behaviors be?
And then those are your goals.
Kristen Bonkoski (19:43):
So much of that, too, is a comparison thing
, right Saying well, at leastI'm not this person who came in
last.
And that's something that Ipersonally really struggle with,
and I've gotten a lot better,but still something I struggle
with is twofold is that ifsomebody is faster than me or
more skilled than me, orwhatever the case may be, I feel
bad about myself, that I'm nota true athlete, I'm not as
impressive as this person.
(20:04):
And I do it the other wayaround too, where, like, I go on
a group ride and I get to thetop of the climb first, I'm like
, oh, look at me.
A little pat on my back, maybeI'm not as bad as I thought.
Erin Ayala (20:14):
I was Right Right.
Kristen Bonkoski (20:15):
Exactly, and, and I mean in no way, is that
the person that I want to be?
I want to be this superinclusive person.
Erin Ayala (20:23):
I want to be cheering on those people and
myself, yep, how would you getout of that trap of this like
comparing myself to everybodyelse.
I treat it really similar tohow I treat like body image
concerns, anxiety before races,like quote unquote negative
(20:45):
self-talk.
I say quote unquote, negativebecause we're the ones who make
it negative, like it's ourinterpretation.
So one of the kind of big, Iguess the main modality of
sports psychology that I usecomes from the therapy world.
It's called acceptance andcommitment therapy and the goal
(21:05):
behind it is to learn to takeour thoughts less seriously and
to see them as neutral.
So thoughts are just thoughtsand so then when we put them in
a bigger context, like thecomparison of like I'm not as
good as so-and-so, or I'll neverbe as fast as so-and-so, or
what's the point when I'm notgetting better, those are all
(21:27):
just thoughts.
When I'm not getting better,those are all just thoughts.
It's our value that like we putthem on and make them feel like
they're a bad thing.
So I'll give you a couple ofexamples.
Like if we use the kind of oneof the main ones that I use, I
say, let's say the story of likeI'm not good enough.
This is like the I'm not goodenough theme is a really big one
for most athletes.
Enough theme is a really bigone for most athletes.
(21:47):
So when you say I'm not goodenough if we change it to, I'm
having the thought that I'm notgood enough.
All of a sudden it's a littlebit less potent, and then you
can go one step further and sayI noticed, I'm having the
thought that I'm not good enough.
Now, it's just a thought thatyou've noticed right.
So naming the story can bereally helpful, because it's
(22:11):
kind of like the whole idea ofwhat you say.
Like don't think about a pinkelephant.
The first thing that comes tomind is a pink elephant saying
like don't compare yourself toothers.
The same process happens whereautomatically, we're going to
start to compare ourselves toothers or ourselves, and so then
what we do instead is we justrecognize this is a normal human
thing.
We like to get feedback on howwe're doing and how we're
(22:33):
progressing.
So comparison is normal andinevitable.
It's just how much we let ittake the driver's seat and kind
of jerk us around.
That's what we need to work onis our response or our reaction
to the comparison.
So what you can then do isbeing like oh, here's the
comparison cycle.
I'm familiar with this.
I know how this goes and justwhen it shows up and then kind
(22:55):
of recalibrate and being likewhat am I working on?
Today?
I'm working on being reallygreat at dissents, so that's
what I'm going to focus on.
So you just have to kind ofcheck in with yourself, bring
yourself back and then not beatyourself up for it when it
happens, because it'll happen.
Kristen Bonkoski (23:09):
So maybe somebody was listening and
they've taken your advice.
They're going to go sign up fora race.
What can they do ahead of timeto start preparing mentally for?
Erin Ayala (23:18):
that.
Oh yeah, so many things.
Research shows that mental andphysical preparation really sets
you up for success on race day,and a lot of athletes forget
about the mental preparationpiece often because it's not
talked about, but they also justdon't know what to do.
And so there's a couple ofthings that go into it Just
knowing your schedule in advance, knowing the route, knowing
(23:40):
where the aid stations orcheckpoints are, and like
putting the route on your if youuse a bike head unit, bike
computer, uploading it inadvance, mapping out like okay,
how long is it going to take meto drive from wherever I'm
sleeping, whether it's home oran Airbnb or hotel to the start
of the race.
How much time does that take?
And like reverse engineeringthat for scheduling Even things
(24:04):
like planning your meals thenight beforehand, especially if
you're traveling, like make areservation somewhere the night
before just so you have peace ofmind.
Um, or if you're staying, likewith a team and org friends with
an Airbnb, like order groceriesfor delivery, so that it's like
you don't have to worry aboutafter a long drive, or getting
(24:25):
settled in.
You don't have to go and figureout, like what are we going to
have for dinner?
So just basically try to removedecisions that you don't have
to make around race weekend,like make them earlier, and your
future self will thank you.
The other thing that's reallyimportant is having realistic
goals and expectations.
So I often joke, especiallywith my teens one of the most
(24:48):
common goals I'll say, what'syour goal for the weekend?
I'll be like don't die.
I'll be like, okay, that's astart Right.
And then it might be like don'tbe last, and I'll be like, okay
, so what does that mean for you?
And so realistic goals arereally important and we put a
lot of weight on outcome goals,which is essentially how you
compare to others.
(25:09):
There's nothing wrong withoutcome goals as long as we know
how to get there, and that'swhere most athletes fall short.
So I'll say like get reallyspecific if you can, and
basically ask yourself inadvance where am I most likely
to struggle on this course orduring this event?
Is it with, like nutrition?
Or is it in a really technicalsection, cause I don't feel good
(25:32):
about my bike handling?
Or is it the notorious paincave like two thirds of the way
through the race?
Is it when it gets really hot,cause I don't like to ride in
heat?
So ask yourself when am I goingto struggle?
And then, when, if and whenthat happens, what do I need to
do to navigate it, likesuccessfully or effectively?
(25:52):
That becomes a goal.
And so then it's like okay,when the pain cave hits at mile
such and such and I tell myselfI should just ease up or I
should just quit, then I willtake a moment, take a few deep
breaths.
I will take a moment, take afew deep breaths recenter,
recalibrate and start to playlike.
(26:12):
Counting colors is a game that Ilike to play where it's like
find three red things around you, find three orange things, find
three yellow things and gothrough the colors of the
rainbow.
That helps you ground yourself.
It helps with mindfulness.
It's a good distraction.
That helps you ground yourself.
It helps with mindfulness.
It's a good distraction.
You have a job.
You can also remind yourselflike just keep pedaling.
Or you can use like comes from.
(26:38):
Rebecca Rush shared this duringa panel and I don't know who
originally gets credit for it.
But no matter how good or badyou feel, it won't last.
So even when you're kind oflike okay, when I hit the pain
cave or the dark and stormymiles, I know this feeling is
not going to last, right, right.
So I think that's important forthe preparation.
People are often like thinkpositive or visualize success.
It's like yes, and we need tobe realistic about what that
(27:01):
looks like.
Um, bike racing is hard, and ifyou are really racing for like
a PR or for a podium spot, or tolike push yourself in a way
that you haven't, it's going tohurt and it's going to suck, and
so you need to be prepared forthat.
Like there can't be like I'mgoing to feel like a superhero
the whole time, because youwon't.
If you're racing well, it meansthat you're pushing those
(27:21):
boundaries and it is going tohurt, right?
Kristen Bonkoski (27:23):
Set those expectations accordingly right,
set those expectationsaccordingly.
So Do you think, do you eversee people studying realistic
goal, realistic goals in theirmind, that where they're setting
the bar too low?
And the reason I asked this isI've learned from my son.
Very first time he ever did adownhill race.
He told me I'm going to win andI immediately told him no,
(27:45):
you're not going to win, that'slike no.
And he went out and won andyeah and um, and that just made
me realize like who am I tolower, try to lower his
expectations and I think aswomen, we probably do that quite
often to ourselves too Like Icould never make the podium.
(28:06):
I could never do this.
Erin Ayala (28:07):
Right, yep, yeah, that's that's I think so
important is asking yourself, oh, I could never make the podium,
I could never do this, right,Yep, yeah, that's that's I think
so important is asking yourself, like I always say, like a good
goal should feel, it shouldfeel like a reach, where it's
like, well, things are going toreally have to come together for
for this to happen.
Yeah, and then use your formerresults to help inform your
future goals, cause that canalso like, if you are always
(28:30):
reaching your goals, I meanthat's cool.
And it also depends on yourvalue system, right?
Because if you, if your goals,if your values are all about
like community, for example,like giving back altruism, your
performance and your goals interms of how you compare to
others may not be superimportant to you.
Yeah, so then, like that's cool, if you're the type of person
where, like that, yourperformance and your goals in
terms of how you compare toothers may not be super
important to you.
Kristen Bonkoski (28:49):
Yeah.
Erin Ayala (28:49):
So then, like that's cool.
If you're the type of personwhere, like that achievement is
important but you're more of aperfectionist, you might set
goals that are like too low ortoo high, and then you can set
yourself up for disappointmentas a result.
So it's having that kind of apost race reflection can be
wildly helpful.
And what I tell a lot ofathletes is like when we're
(29:10):
students quote unquote goodstudents if we're students who,
like care about performance, ifwe get a test and then we get it
back, we're going to lookthrough the questions that we
got, right and wrong, to reviewhow we did and like what did I
miss?
And we don't always do that forracing or cycling and I'm like,
(29:31):
why not?
So look back on the race andask yourself, like what did I
miss?
And then learn from that, andthen that can also inform your
goals for next time, right?
So?
And then it's also recognizinglike hold those goals lightly,
because weather conditions canvary extremely, like the course
(29:51):
conditions can really affecttime, especially off-road, and
so it's reminding yourself ofthat as well.
Kristen Bonkoski (29:58):
So what do you think the value of racing is
for folks who say, you know, I'mnever going to be on the podium
?
Erin Ayala (30:02):
I think a lot of endurance athletes we all have
our own stuff and that's one ofthe ways that we unpack it
(30:27):
Working toward a goal.
So let's say you're a middle ofpack racer and you want to do
like a 50 miler, having thestructure for training and then
following through on thatstructure, and then the race
itself is like your dessert orthe icing on the cake, where you
get to earn like theopportunity to finish that race
and feel good about it.
(30:48):
So it's more about you and yourprocess, so much less about how
you compare to others.
And being like this was reallygood for me because I trained, I
prioritized my health, mywellness, in order to get to
this start line, and so thenthis is where I really enjoy
what I've worked so hard for.
That's a fun way to frame it.
Kristen Bonkoski (31:09):
What about folks that kind of struggle with
that training and that processpiece, that this is very much me
.
I get to a race and I'm verytype A and I'm like, oh, but
wait, I wasn't very type A whileI was training.
Yeah, so how do you deal withthat part?
I mean the less fun aspects.
Erin Ayala (31:30):
Totally.
Yeah, there are three coreingredients.
When we look at the research,there's like kind of predictors
of motivation, because, you know, with training consistency,
some athletes love training andlike they love the grind when
racing is not their jam, andthen others are the opposite,
kind of like what you said, likeyeah, bring me to the race.
It's the daily grind and thetraining.
Yeah.
So in order to increasemotivation, there's three levers
(31:53):
that you can kind of pull on.
The first one is a sense ofautonomy or like having a choice
in the matter.
So it's asking yourself whatkind of training do I have and
am I happy with it?
And so a really common examplewould be like group rides or
Zwift races, Like they may notgive you the most bang for your
buck in terms of training andfitness because they're not
(32:14):
prescriptive, you're not doingformal intervals, but if they
motivate you and you've got achoice to do them, you're more
likely to do them, and so havingchoices in the matter.
So for anyone who has like aformal coach, talking to your
coach about the types ofworkouts that you like and don't
like, or asking your coach togive you options, like once a
week where you're like, okay, somy coach used to do like I'm in
(32:38):
Minnesota, so we've got plentyof snow, usually in the winter,
and so he would do things likeokay, you can do fat bike, you
can do snowshoes, you can hike,you can ski, just get out for
two hours.
And that was great formotivation, because then I had a
choice yeah.
Second lover or ingredient is asense of relatedness or
belonging.
So find some buddies oraccountability buddies, and it
(33:01):
might be things as silly asbeing like okay, if I don't send
you a selfie with my butt outof bed on the trainer by 7am on
Friday, I owe you $20.
Like, if you need to gamify it,you can.
Or have a standing like datewith some of your training
buddies where it's just likeonce a week you do your recovery
(33:23):
rides together at like 7pm onWednesdays, because then it's
not a decision you have to make,it's just something you do, and
then you feel like you belong,you've got someone to relate to.
And then the third and finallever is a sense of competence
and looking for improvements.
So if we feel like we're notreally making progress, we're
not going to be as motivated.
So it's like taking time out ofyour workouts and being what
(33:48):
went well today and like whatdid I improve on?
Um, and it might be somethinglike oh, my heart rate recovered
more quickly in between thethird and fourth interval.
Um, that's a sign of increasedfitness, that's cool.
Or like I didn't get droppedright away in the zwift race,
awesome, awesome.
So it's like making sure yougive yourself credit and that
can help consistency.
Kristen Bonkoski (34:06):
I love that second part, that community
piece, because that's been hugefor me personally.
So many women I talk to, though, have this fear of not
belonging or struggling findingthat community.
They're afraid to show up to agroup ride that they're going to
get dropped.
They're maybe afraid to up to agroup ride that they're going
to get dropped.
They're maybe afraid to go intothe bike shop because they're
going to get mansplained.
(34:27):
How do you get over that pieceof struggle.
Erin Ayala (34:32):
I think some of it is like often we create these
roles where we're like I'll feelmore confident when, or I'll do
such and such when I feel moreconfident where we like put this
like there's a contingencythere.
It's like, well, as long as I'mfeeling such and such, then
I'll be okay.
Um, or like I I'll feel moreconfident when I win my first
(34:55):
race, or you know, or when I goto a bike shop and I'm not
mansplained and there's not alot of like.
We can't control our emotionsand our feelings, unfortunately.
As humans, we just like toavoid the difficult ones, and so
what we need to do instead islean into them and make room for
them and then ask ourselves,like, okay, if I'm showing up as
(35:17):
that best version of myself andif I'm showing up as, like that
confident version of me that Iwant to be, what would that look
like?
What would I be doing?
And that's where you start.
Yeah, so really, we know thebehaviors come before the
feelings when it comes toconfidence, and so it's being
like okay, if I felt confident,what would I be doing?
(35:38):
And then can I create one likegoal or behavior based off of
that of being like yep, I'mgoing to go into the bike shop
and I'm going to tell them, likethis part of my bike is
squeaking and I think it mightbe this, but I'm not sure, and
we're going to give them achance to not mansplain, yeah,
and then, if they do, then havesome like plans around that
(35:58):
being like, is there anotherstaff member that I could speak,
with plans around that beinglike, is there another staff
member that I could speak with,Um or oh?
Interesting that you assumedthat I don't know about that, Um
, because my understanding isdah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
So like there are differentthose are like the
microaggressions.
There are different ways torespond.
Sometimes it's best to justdrop it, Um, other times it's
best to, you know, throw someshade, um, and like give them,
(36:19):
you know, give them somethingback.
It depends on your personalityand your vibe and how much
energy you have that day yeah,that's gold.
Kristen Bonkoski (36:26):
Thank you for that yeah what have I not asked
you that you would like folks to?
Erin Ayala (36:30):
know, um, probably something on like finding sports
psychologists and how to find aperson such a messy, complex,
nuanced field.
I, admittedly, might rufflesome feathers when I say this,
I'm just going to say it.
They are like anyone can callthemselves a mental performance
(36:52):
coach.
Just because someone has beenan athlete who has dealt with
mental stuff does not meanthere'll be a good mental
performance coach, or it doesn'tmean they have the competence
to be one.
Similar to we see this withendurance coaching as well.
Right, like anyone can callthemselves a cycling coach.
What is their training, what istheir credentials?
(37:15):
They might be a really greathuman being with really great
intentions, but may not realize,like they may not know what
they don't know.
And so when you're looking fora sports psychology provider,
it's okay and important to bepicky, especially if there's any
sort of mental health, becausethen you really want to find a
licensed mental health clinician.
(37:36):
And so we can kind of thinkback to that Venn diagram.
Let's say you've got injuryrecovery, performance, anxiety,
motivation, burnout, where youdon't really have a history of
depression and you're notconcerned about depression, team
drama.
Those are all like focus, goalsetting.
Those are all things that aretotally appropriate for a mental
(37:59):
performance coach to help youwith mental toughness.
Look for the CMPC acronym.
It stands for Certified MentalPerformance Consultant and that
is kind of the current goldstandard of what we've got in
the field to kind of showtraining and credibility.
So people who have a CMPC, theyhave to have a master's degree
(38:21):
related to sports, psychology orcounseling field.
They have to have, I want tosay it's like 200 hours working
with athletes, 50 hours ofmentorship with a formal
supervisor.
They have to have coursework incertain areas.
So it's pretty, they're vetted.
And then the other side of thediagram for mental health, if
(38:43):
you've got any history ofdepression or anxiety or any
other mental health concerns, Ireally do think it's important
to find a licensed mental healthclinician who also has
expertise in sport, because ageneralist mental health
clinician may not understand howimportant sport is in your life
and may forget to ask aboutthose things and then you just
(39:04):
don't feel seen because they'remissing this huge part of your
life.
So to find a person is,unfortunately it can be pretty
hard Ask, ask like friends ifyou know friends.
The kind of one of the goldstandard databases is the USOPC
mental health registry.
State states are funky withlicensure because if you have a
(39:28):
mental health therapist, theyneed to be licensed in your
state where you're physicallylocated.
And then if you're an athletewho travels a lot for races,
that also makes it funky becausethey have to be licensed to
wherever you're traveling aswell.
Um, so there's this thingcalled PSYPACT, and I realized
there's a lot of acronyms.
I can give you info and like wecould add them to the show
notes.
(39:50):
But PSYPACT is basically like adriver's license for
psychologists, where our licenseis seen as legit and I think 42
States at this point.
So so the USOPC mental healthregistry it's like you can just
Google it and it'll come up andit's a big Excel sheet and it
lists all of the providers inthere have expertise in sport
(40:11):
and mental health, and then youcan search by insurance and
state and so like if you startanywhere, that's a really kind
of safe place.
And then people can also justcontact me.
I'm always, I'm always helpingpeople find others, because they
know I'm picky and get in asoapbox about this stuff
sometimes, and so I can alsohelp kind of use my network and
(40:35):
being like okay, because alsocycling is a really kind of
funky sport and you, you don'twant to have to explain all of
the like.
What does it mean to, like,find a good line, or hug
someone's wheel, or you know,like, like, there's this lingo
and we, we get it, um, and soyou want to find someone who
gets it.
So um?
Kristen Bonkoski (40:54):
can people work with you on like online
virtually, or do you?
Erin Ayala (40:57):
Yeah, so, um, I do.
I'd say 50% of my sessions areare virtual Um cause only 50% of
my clients right now are inMinnesota.
Um, and so it's pretty coolCause I've got folks from all
over the U?
S right now, I think, 14 or 15different States.
I represented Um and it's kindof the hubs that you'd expect in
(41:18):
the cycling world, which iskind of fun.
Um, I've got you know, like alittle niche and kind of like
Pacific Northwest Colorado group, so like there's different
areas right now, like books arefull, which is a good problem to
have, but a problem nonethelessbecause I just I don't have
room for more individualathletes.
So one way that I've kind ofworked around that is I created
(41:39):
a recently created an onlinecourse and that's all about race
day preparation.
So it's basically I kind ofdumped all of the tools and
knowledge that I use for raceday prep with my individual
clients into an online learningmanagement system and so for
that, basically, what I did is Ibasically just said, okay,
we've got different lessons,here are the things that are
(42:01):
really important for race dayprep, and then there's a video,
there are activities, there's avery nerdy interactive
spreadsheet to help withplanning, and so people can use
that and access that anytime.
The course is live Right now.
It's live until September 27th,I think is when we're closing
the doors, and then probablyBlack Friday sale and then
(42:22):
another one at the start ofspring.
So that's another option.
Kristen Bonkoski (42:25):
And where can people come find that and where
can they follow you in general,online Instagram, scotty Sports
Psychology.
Erin Ayala (42:32):
Scotty is S-K-A-D-I and sport is singular.
And then my website isscottysportpsychologycom, and so
Instagram is where I spend mostof my time connecting with
people.
I'm not big on Facebook.
I'm kind of like thein-betweener with generations,
but also not on TikTok Same.
So Instagram is my jam, so I'mthe one who runs the account.
(42:57):
You can totally message methere if you've got questions.
Website has like a contact mefor email, all that fun stuff.
Kristen Bonkoski (43:03):
So and you do offer just a lot of good tips
and information on thatInstagram account as well.
Erin Ayala (43:08):
That's my goal.
Like we post every day it'slike it's, it's important to me.
I want to give back.
The field of sports psychologyunfortunately is not super
accessible and that's one of mygoals is to make it more
accessible and like lessintimidating for people, to kind
of get a feel for it, and sothen they know what to expect if
they decide to make the leap.
Kristen Bonkoski (43:27):
So yeah, I've got three final questions for
you.
The first one is what bike orbikes do you ride?
Erin Ayala (43:34):
Oh gosh.
Okay, I have five in my fleetright now.
I've got an Otso Voitek, whichis a fat bike.
Otso is a really cool companybased here in the Twin Cities,
so that one I feel like I'm onlike a monster truck in the snow
on the single track and it isso fun in winter.
I have a steel single speedgunner frame RIP because they
(44:01):
went out of business this pastyear, but that's like a small
Wisconsin based company.
Um, and I I love that bike.
It's super fun.
Um.
And then I've got a specializeddiverge for my long gravel with
gears.
So like my 200 milers, I'll doon that one or the really climby
races where I need gears.
I've got a specialized tarmacfor road and then I've got a
(44:24):
specialized Epic Evo for amountain bike and that is like
that one's a lot of fun, but mymountain biking skills are
mediocre at best I'm like littleBella's level.
So those are my bikes and Ilove them all for different
reasons.
Kristen Bonkoski (44:40):
Very good.
Second question is where's yourfavorite place?
You've ever ridden your bike?
Erin Ayala (44:46):
Ooh, oh, that's so hard.
Um, there's a couple of thingsthat come to mind.
Um, one is really random, but,um, theodore Roosevelt national
park, and there they have thisbig loop road and the way that
(45:07):
the park ranger explained it is,the terrain is kind of like
Swiss cheese.
There's just a lot of holesunderneath, and the roads for
that national park were notbuilt for these 40-foot RVs, and
so the road collapsed and isclosed.
So my spouse and I rode on theclosed road, um, when we went
through the park and it wasbreathtaking, it was so cool.
(45:29):
Um, so that was a reallyamazing ride.
Um, glacier National Park isbeautiful.
Um, I haven't done the going tothe sun road, but the last best
ride is a race that's out there.
That's equally challenging, asit is breathtaking.
Um, I feel like there wasanother one that came to mind.
I love the Flint Hills andunbound.
(45:51):
I just have a spot for it, likethe, the wildflowers and how
rugged and exposed that terrainis.
Um, so, yeah, it's hard to pickone.
Kristen Bonkoski (46:01):
I love the Theodore Roosevelt one.
I've never heard anyone saythat.
Erin Ayala (46:04):
Yeah, yeah, that was a really cool one.
Kristen Bonkoski (46:07):
Final question is what is your favorite thing
about riding your bike?
Erin Ayala (46:11):
My favorite thing.
I think it's.
I don't want to say it forcesme to be unplugged because I can
still listen to podcasts andmusic, but it is like it urges
me to connect more mindful andintentional with my surroundings
(46:31):
.
I can push as hard or as littleas I want to.
It has connected me with somany amazing people.
I think that's probably one ofthe main things I love about it.
It's not even the riding itself, it's like what the community
represents.
And then it's also a reflectionof just my own personal journey
(46:53):
and growth, because I'veunpacked so many skeletons in
the closet while on those reallylong rides and worked through
so much stuff personally andprofessionally, leaned into my
professional identity as asports psychologist, in large
part because of cycling right.
Kristen Bonkoski (47:16):
So it just it embodies so much for me.
I love it.
I'd love to ask you a favor Ifyou enjoyed this episode, can
you please go ahead and share it?
You can do that by sharing iton your Instagram stories or
just letting a friend know aboutit.
The more that you help us getthe word out, the more women we
reach, the better quality ofguests we get on the show.
So it's a team effort and Ireally, really appreciate you.
(47:37):
Until next time, happy writing.
In this episode of the Femme Cyclist
Podcast, we're diving deep intothe mental side of cycling with
sports psychologist Erin Ayala.
In our chat, erin sharesinvaluable insights on some of
the biggest challenges we faceas cyclists, from that pesky
habit of comparing ourselves toothers to finding the motivation
(00:22):
to train.
We also tackle the topic ofburnout and how to strike a bike
life balance.
So cycling remains a source ofjoy, not stress.
Erin's down-to-earth advicewill help you set realistic
goals, get up the courage tosign up for that race and keep
pushing forward, even whenthings get tough.
(00:45):
If you've ever struggled withself-doubt, felt overwhelmed by
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to get out the door, thisepisode is for you.
Real quick.
Before we jump into today'sepisode, I want to tell you
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Head to femcyclistcom to getstarted today.
Who can benefit from workingwith a sports psychologist?
Erin Ayala (01:36):
The easy answer is anyone.
So I think one of the bigthings with sports psychology a
lot of people feel like theyneed to be like pro or elite or
serious about whatever sport itis that they're doing and
honestly, it couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
I have a lot of clients whowouldn't even call themselves
athletes, and so there's a hugecontinuum.
(01:59):
I think people who couldbenefit are people who might be
feeling a little bit lost andkind of finding their why.
They may have started riding orrunning or another sport for
one reason and for a lot ofpeople, for example, it might be
to get healthier or to findcommunity and then that reason
has kind of shifted and theymight be feeling a little bit
(02:19):
lost and want to kind of unpacktheir athletic identity.
Sports psych is awesome forthat Mental health concerns
anyone who has a history ofmental health concerns and then
it starts to leak into, likebike life balance.
Sports psych can be reallyhelpful venue because the sports
psychologist is kind of goingto get that athletic identity
(02:41):
component and understanding howit affects mental health in
general.
I think other things race to.
Anxiety is huge and wildlycommon and sports psych can
definitely help with those sortsof things.
And then another big theme thatI often see, actually two more
like confidence, kind ofself-doubt sense of in, um, am I
(03:03):
a good enough athlete?
Just some of that identitystuff.
And then the final thing isathletic injury can be really
big, Um, and that can alsoinclude like complex and chronic
health concerns, chronic pain,Um, perimenopause symptoms is
another thing that is having amoment for a good reason now,
and you know that definitelyaffects athletic identity and
athletic performance for femaleathletes, and so lots of
(03:26):
different opportunities forsports psych to come into play.
Kristen Bonkoski (03:31):
So it's good for everybody.
When does it change from beinga nice to have to a must have?
Who, would you absolutely say,needs to get in to see somebody
like you?
Erin Ayala (03:41):
Totally.
Yeah, such a great question.
I think some of the big redflags are when, like, mental
health concerns really start tobubble up and affect your
ability to find joy andsatisfaction in sport.
So it feels like a grind.
It's not just a funker plateauin the sense that it lasts a few
(04:02):
weeks or longer, if you know.
It's normal, for example, tohave post-race blues after, like
a really big event that youmight be training for.
But if after four to six weeks,like, you're still not feeling
motivated, that's usually a signthat there might be something
deeper going on.
So mental health concerns areusually the biggest thing and
(04:23):
it's also things where it's likeaffecting multiple areas of
life, where it's not just sport,it's also affecting family
relationships or how you feelabout yourself, your ability to
work in a really engaged orproductive manner and show up as
the person you want to be.
And sports psych is kind of afunky field which we'll get a
little bit into.
(04:43):
But on one side of the Venndiagram is mental health and
then on other side isperformance, and so it's like
when the mental health stuffstarts to leak into the
performance stuff, that'susually a sign that it's time to
make a phone call, do somesearches and find someone who
can help for backup.
Kristen Bonkoski (05:01):
You mentioned earlier bike life balance.
What did you mean by that?
Erin Ayala (05:05):
Yes, biking especially takes a lot of time,
especially when training forlonger races, for any like long,
like gravel, for example.
I do unbound every year and thelong rides are just like.
I'll look at my weekendcalendar and be like, oh my gosh
, I'm just going to be ridingall weekend, which is fun, but
(05:27):
like what about laundry and mealprep and like time with my
family, self-care, all of theseother things?
It starts to feel reallyoverwhelming, especially at the
kind of the height of the seasonwhen you're getting a lot of
volume in and so bike lifebalance is going to look a
little bit different foreveryone, but it can create
(05:48):
quite a bit of strain onrelationships and then other
areas of our life when it startsto take over more kind of more
of a footprint or more of ablueprint or more real estate in
our brain, and so it's tryingto have realistic expectations
of being.
It might be for family, forexample.
Let's say you're training foran event and your goal is to
(06:10):
like finish a 100 mile ride,talking to anyone in the family
or significant other and beinglike, hey, the next couple of
weeks are going to be reallybusy because this is my biggest
build.
So like apologies and thank youin advance for letting me let
things go with laundry orcleaning or going to your games
(06:31):
or activities or skipping out ondinners because I want to go to
bed early.
Just, I think being reallyproactive with those boundaries
is important because then youdon't start to feel resentful or
some of that kind of quote,unquote, mom guilt or other
things that can show up forparents or other people who like
to give and spend time withothers.
Kristen Bonkoski (06:49):
Yeah, one thing that I know that I've
always kind of used biking assomething to deal with anxiety,
with depression.
It's really important for mymental health, and I think that
that's true of a lot ofendurance athletes.
We get into it for that mentalhealth component.
When does it, though, become acrutch?
Is it ever an issue using sportas kind of this mental health?
Erin Ayala (07:12):
totally.
I think it's often.
I think it often starts as acrutch or like it's.
It starts as a coping mechanismand then what can happen?
Especially if we get injured?
The rug is pulled out fromunder us and then we don't have
that coping mechanism anymoreand then we really start to
struggle.
And so I always say, like we'vegot to have multiple coping
(07:32):
mechanisms in the tool belt.
Exercise can be one of them andarguably should be.
Like research supports thebenefits of exercise.
We know that.
So then it's like askingyourself why am I going out for
this ride, is it?
I always say get curious.
Like don't judge yourself rightaway, like our minds love to
judge.
That was a good ride, that wasa bad ride, whatever it might be
(07:54):
.
But just get curious.
What's motivating me to get onthe bike right now or to go to
the gym, or whatever it might be?
Is it feeling of guilt, or likefalling behind, or the scarcity
of like other people are doingmore than I am, so I need to do
more.
Or is it more of like I had astressful day?
I just need some alone time andthen start to kind of unpack
(08:15):
your relationship with exercise,because it can start to get
problematic when you feel likethis urgency or this need to do
it and you feel like you don'thave other coping skills.
So this other stress managementskills are super important to
help you with that balancebecause then exercise you won't
burn out as quickly, less likelyto get injured.
(08:35):
But then if you're unable touse that outlet for one reason
or another, you've got backups.
Kristen Bonkoski (08:41):
Yeah, you mentioned post-race blues and I
think that's such a relatablething for me.
Every time I do a race, I havelike a day or two afterward
where I have this huge high lifeis great and I've never felt
better, and then like this downand what comes next?
How do you deal with that?
Erin Ayala (08:59):
That's super common and you'll also find a lot of
endurance.
Athletes will like go straightto the like online blogs and
being like, what race can I signup for next?
I'm going to bike reg locationsand like, oh, I've got really
good fitness, like what's mynext thing, right?
So there's a couple of thingsto think about with this.
One is post-race blues aresuper common and it just as you
(09:22):
described.
The first couple of days you'relike, oh, that was amazing.
And then you're still restingand recovering from a really
hard effort, so your volumeisn't as big.
And then if you don't haveanother race or event on the
calendar, you may not havestructure.
So you may be looking at, like,if you use training peaks or
work with a coach, it's likeblank or all rest days, and that
(09:43):
creates anxiety for a lot ofathletes because it's like
what's our next thing that we'reworking toward?
So post-race blues usually showup as kind of this just kind of
blah attitude.
You may not feel as motivated.
You might feel like the fatigue, both emotionally and
physically.
You might be a little moreirritable, like more I don't
(10:05):
know, just like not wanting tokind of get out and do things.
It's just kind of a thunk or a,if it lasts and this is one of
those things where, if it lastsmore than like two to three
weeks, then there might besomething deeper going on, um,
which could just be burnout,like athletic burnout, right, um
(10:26):
.
But often it's this like Idon't know what's next for me,
and this kind of aimlessness andwhat am I working toward next.
And so then we'll go to thesetraining calendars or event
calendars and look for our nextthing, which there's nothing
wrong with that, as long as wedon't burn ourselves out or get
get injured from overtraining,right?
So I often ask athletes, likewhat motivated you to sign up in
the first place?
Go back to your why, um?
(10:46):
And then let's think about,like are there other areas of
your life that you'veunintentionally or intentionally
had to set aside or neglect?
Can you lean into those areasfor a little bit, um, kind of
recalibrate?
And then I encourage myathletes not to sign up for any
more, like big races in thefirst week after a big race,
cause sometimes it's more ofthat impulsivity and being like,
(11:09):
let's talk to family first.
Let's look at your workschedule, like does the travel
you know, footprint make sense?
And just helping them be moreintentional with the decision.
Kristen Bonkoski (11:17):
Yeah, I think for a lot of folks that I talked
to, they don't even recognizethe symptoms of burnout which
you mentioned, and there is aphysical component of burnout,
um, but what about the mentalpiece?
What are some of the kind ofthe signs that were mentally
burnt out and how do we dealwith that?
Erin Ayala (11:35):
Yes, um, some of the telltale signs that I'll see in
my athletes and of course it'sa little bit different for
everyone um, higher than usualor higher than normal levels of
self-criticism or like this Oneof the telltale signs of burnout
is this lack of personalachievement, or lack of personal
accomplishment of like, what Idid wasn't that big of a deal,
(11:57):
it didn't really matter, I'm notreally making a difference and
kind of questioning yourcontributions, making a
difference and kind ofquestioning your contributions.
So, if that you know, femaleathletes in general, especially
in endurance, tend to be hard onthemselves.
Yes, so it's like what is thebaseline?
And then if it is a lot higher,where it feels like more than
(12:17):
usual, that could be a burnoutsign.
Motivation is a at the end ofthe day, um, motivation is a at
the end of the day.
Burnout is a motivation problem, um, and so when motivation
really goes downhill and youstart finding yourself like
making excuses or givingyourself reasons to not do a
workout because you had a longday at work, or you're just like
(12:39):
, oh, I could use an extra restday, it was a long season, or oh
, I need to run to the grocerystore and get such and such
things that usually wouldn't getin the way of your workouts.
That's usually another signthat burnout is kind of there,
um, and then it's just like alack of interest in things like
biking, where usually it mightbe like, oh, I want to watch
(12:59):
this world cup race, and then wejust are like, eh, whatever, um
, so we're just not asinterested in like the cycling
scene and kind of reading up onthe latest and greatest.
Kristen Bonkoski (13:08):
That's also a burnout is it okay at that point
just to say I'm gonna be donefor a while yeah, yeah, the
honestly like the quote-unquotebest cure for burnout is to take
a break, okay, and just rest.
Erin Ayala (13:23):
Yeah, it's really hard for endurance athletes so
hard.
Yeah, and that's why it's liketricky too with sports psych,
because like there it could bedepression, yeah.
So that's where, like seeing asports psychologist can be
really helpful.
And when I say sportspsychologist, I mean like a
licensed mental health clinicianwho also has training in sport
(13:46):
and performance, because there'salso mental performance coaches
out there who can be amazing,but if they don't have training
in mental health therapy, theymay not know to look for
depression as a potentialexplanation for a lack of
motivation, right.
So there's like a lot of messynuances.
Lack of motivation, right?
(14:07):
So there's like a lot of messynuances and so, like, burnout
and depression can look similaron the surface, but the
treatment is and the reasonsbehind it are wildly different.
So, like, taking a break fordepression, not the best idea.
In that case, it's like nope,get your butt on the bike or
move your body in a differentway, because you know exercise
is really important.
And then you know therapy, meds, vitamin D, all of those other
(14:30):
things.
Kristen Bonkoski (14:31):
So one of the things that I personally really
matters to me is trying to getmore women to show up at races.
Yes, you know, I go to runningraces and there's usually a
pretty good percentage that arefemale.
I go to bike races and it'susually a pretty good percentage
that are female.
I go to bike races and it'susually a very small percentage
that are female.
Erin Ayala (14:49):
Yep.
Kristen Bonkoski (14:51):
I mean, obviously there are lots of
reasons for that, many of themcultural, but as far as the
mental piece, like as anindividual listening to this,
I'm interested in racing, I'mscared.
What would you say to thatperson?
I'd say, like most people are,you know, like I'm scared, what,
what?
Erin Ayala (15:05):
would you say to that person?
Yeah, I'd say, like most peopleare, you know, like most people
are scared and I'm trying tofind I think it's.
It's.
I came from the world oftriathlon, which I started with
as a runner, and then I went totriathlon and then I was like I
always joke, I was the bottom20th percentile for swimmers and
the triathlon leg, but like thetop 20th for cycling, right,
and I was like I always joke, Iwas the bottom 20th percentile
for swimmers and the triathlonleg, but like the top 20th for
(15:27):
cycling and.
Kristen Bonkoski (15:28):
I was like I'm just going to ride my bike some
more.
Erin Ayala (15:31):
This is what I'm good at, so.
But coming to the cycling scenewas really a culture shift.
It was kind of a culture shockin a lot of ways because of what
you just noted with the genderdifferences, and it was hard to
like make friends and findpeople.
So I think the advice that Ihave is you know, hop on, you
(15:52):
know Facebook groups or othercommunities where there are
women in cycling and ask themfor event recommendations in
your area.
Or if you want to getadventurous and are willing to
travel for a race, then ask forrecommendations, because some
races are way more kind ofcommunity-based and inclusive
(16:14):
than others.
And so then you're settingyourself up for success.
Even though it's scary, you'remore likely to have a really
nice time once you're there.
So that is one piece of adviceasking for help and support,
even if you feel like it's sillyor not necessary, like I
remember when I first startedriding gravel.
Like asking an Instagramconnection, like should I run
(16:37):
like 35s or 40s for my tires?
And in hindsight, like thatwasn't sure tire width can be
helpful, um, but it wouldn'thave made or broken my day, you
know.
So it like I, I had a lot ofself-doubt in questioning
equipment decisions and whatshould I wear, and, um, like
what is the start going to belike when it's a mass start and
(16:59):
we're also starting with guys,like just be willing to ask
those questions, because ifyou've got them, chances are
other women have also had thosequestions and they're happy to
share their insights.
So I say like, find other womento mentor you, for sure.
Or bring a buddy, and beinglike no expectations If we
finish, great, if we don't,that's cool too.
(17:20):
So just bring an adventure,buddy.
Kristen Bonkoski (17:24):
I saw an Instagram post I think it was
quite a while ago from you, butI really, really appreciated it
and it was about not saying, oh,at least I wasn't last, or you
know, I'm happy as long as Idon't finish last.
Erin Ayala (17:37):
At least I didn't finish last, yep yeah, at least.
Kristen Bonkoski (17:39):
I didn't finish last.
Why do you discourage that?
Yes?
Erin Ayala (17:43):
Such a like, such a loaded thing, because it's so
ingrained in a lot of us.
It's racing, so comparison isinevitable.
Right, results are online,they're posted, and the thing I
always say is there's nothingwrong with finishing last.
And so when we start to say, atleast I didn't finish last, it
(18:04):
places this value on beingfaster and like idea that being
last is a bad thing when we haveno idea for, like, the people
who have finished last, no ideawhat they have been through in
order to finish that race andfinishing maybe a huge
accomplishment.
(18:24):
And so when we compare our poorperformance or what we feel is
a disappointing performance tosomeone saying like well, at
least we didn't finish last,we're placing this like value of
like well, at least I'm notthem, or at least I'm not in
their position, which is justnot a very like fun, welcoming
(18:44):
or inclusive vibe to bring tothe sport of cycling, which can
at times be pretty like rowy,for lack of a better word Right,
yeah.
And so I think it's reallyimportant to change that culture
.
And so whenever I have athletesor clients being like what's
your goal?
And their goal is like don'tfinish last, I'll be like why
not?
What's like what if you didfinish last?
(19:05):
You could finish and show up as, like, the best, most competent
athlete you've ever been.
You could bring a whole lot ofjoy on the course, turn yourself
inside out, thank all of thevolunteers.
He will like a carb eatingchampion and finish last, and
that's still something to beproud of.
So so instead, it's likeregardless of what place you're
in, how do you want to show upon race day?
(19:27):
It's like, regardless of whatplace you're in, how do you want
to show up on race day?
That's how you make goals right, like what do I want my vibe to
be and, based off of that vibe,what would my actions and
behaviors be?
And then those are your goals.
Kristen Bonkoski (19:43):
So much of that, too, is a comparison thing
, right Saying well, at leastI'm not this person who came in
last.
And that's something that Ipersonally really struggle with,
and I've gotten a lot better,but still something I struggle
with is twofold is that ifsomebody is faster than me or
more skilled than me, orwhatever the case may be, I feel
bad about myself, that I'm nota true athlete, I'm not as
impressive as this person.
(20:04):
And I do it the other wayaround too, where, like, I go on
a group ride and I get to thetop of the climb first, I'm like
, oh, look at me.
A little pat on my back, maybeI'm not as bad as I thought.
Erin Ayala (20:14):
I was Right Right.
Kristen Bonkoski (20:15):
Exactly, and, and I mean in no way, is that
the person that I want to be?
I want to be this superinclusive person.
Erin Ayala (20:23):
I want to be cheering on those people and
myself, yep, how would you getout of that trap of this like
comparing myself to everybodyelse.
I treat it really similar tohow I treat like body image
concerns, anxiety before races,like quote unquote negative
(20:45):
self-talk.
I say quote unquote, negativebecause we're the ones who make
it negative, like it's ourinterpretation.
So one of the kind of big, Iguess the main modality of
sports psychology that I usecomes from the therapy world.
It's called acceptance andcommitment therapy and the goal
(21:05):
behind it is to learn to takeour thoughts less seriously and
to see them as neutral.
So thoughts are just thoughtsand so then when we put them in
a bigger context, like thecomparison of like I'm not as
good as so-and-so, or I'll neverbe as fast as so-and-so, or
what's the point when I'm notgetting better, those are all
(21:27):
just thoughts.
When I'm not getting better,those are all just thoughts.
It's our value that like we putthem on and make them feel like
they're a bad thing.
So I'll give you a couple ofexamples.
Like if we use the kind of oneof the main ones that I use, I
say, let's say the story of likeI'm not good enough.
This is like the I'm not goodenough theme is a really big one
for most athletes.
Enough theme is a really bigone for most athletes.
(21:47):
So when you say I'm not goodenough if we change it to, I'm
having the thought that I'm notgood enough.
All of a sudden it's a littlebit less potent, and then you
can go one step further and sayI noticed, I'm having the
thought that I'm not good enough.
Now, it's just a thought thatyou've noticed right.
So naming the story can bereally helpful, because it's
(22:11):
kind of like the whole idea ofwhat you say.
Like don't think about a pinkelephant.
The first thing that comes tomind is a pink elephant saying
like don't compare yourself toothers.
The same process happens whereautomatically, we're going to
start to compare ourselves toothers or ourselves, and so then
what we do instead is we justrecognize this is a normal human
thing.
We like to get feedback on howwe're doing and how we're
(22:33):
progressing.
So comparison is normal andinevitable.
It's just how much we let ittake the driver's seat and kind
of jerk us around.
That's what we need to work onis our response or our reaction
to the comparison.
So what you can then do isbeing like oh, here's the
comparison cycle.
I'm familiar with this.
I know how this goes and justwhen it shows up and then kind
(22:55):
of recalibrate and being likewhat am I working on?
Today?
I'm working on being reallygreat at dissents, so that's
what I'm going to focus on.
So you just have to kind ofcheck in with yourself, bring
yourself back and then not beatyourself up for it when it
happens, because it'll happen.
Kristen Bonkoski (23:09):
So maybe somebody was listening and
they've taken your advice.
They're going to go sign up fora race.
What can they do ahead of timeto start preparing mentally for?
Erin Ayala (23:18):
that.
Oh yeah, so many things.
Research shows that mental andphysical preparation really sets
you up for success on race day,and a lot of athletes forget
about the mental preparationpiece often because it's not
talked about, but they also justdon't know what to do.
And so there's a couple ofthings that go into it Just
knowing your schedule in advance, knowing the route, knowing
(23:40):
where the aid stations orcheckpoints are, and like
putting the route on your if youuse a bike head unit, bike
computer, uploading it inadvance, mapping out like okay,
how long is it going to take meto drive from wherever I'm
sleeping, whether it's home oran Airbnb or hotel to the start
of the race.
How much time does that take?
And like reverse engineeringthat for scheduling Even things
(24:04):
like planning your meals thenight beforehand, especially if
you're traveling, like make areservation somewhere the night
before just so you have peace ofmind.
Um, or if you're staying, likewith a team and org friends with
an Airbnb, like order groceriesfor delivery, so that it's like
you don't have to worry aboutafter a long drive, or getting
(24:25):
settled in.
You don't have to go and figureout, like what are we going to
have for dinner?
So just basically try to removedecisions that you don't have
to make around race weekend,like make them earlier, and your
future self will thank you.
The other thing that's reallyimportant is having realistic
goals and expectations.
So I often joke, especiallywith my teens one of the most
(24:48):
common goals I'll say, what'syour goal for the weekend?
I'll be like don't die.
I'll be like, okay, that's astart Right.
And then it might be like don'tbe last, and I'll be like, okay
, so what does that mean for you?
And so realistic goals arereally important and we put a
lot of weight on outcome goals,which is essentially how you
compare to others.
(25:09):
There's nothing wrong withoutcome goals as long as we know
how to get there, and that'swhere most athletes fall short.
So I'll say like get reallyspecific if you can, and
basically ask yourself inadvance where am I most likely
to struggle on this course orduring this event?
Is it with, like nutrition?
Or is it in a really technicalsection, cause I don't feel good
(25:32):
about my bike handling?
Or is it the notorious paincave like two thirds of the way
through the race?
Is it when it gets really hot,cause I don't like to ride in
heat?
So ask yourself when am I goingto struggle?
And then, when, if and whenthat happens, what do I need to
do to navigate it, likesuccessfully or effectively?
(25:52):
That becomes a goal.
And so then it's like okay,when the pain cave hits at mile
such and such and I tell myselfI should just ease up or I
should just quit, then I willtake a moment, take a few deep
breaths.
I will take a moment, take afew deep breaths recenter,
recalibrate and start to playlike.
(26:12):
Counting colors is a game that Ilike to play where it's like
find three red things around you, find three orange things, find
three yellow things and gothrough the colors of the
rainbow.
That helps you ground yourself.
It helps with mindfulness.
It's a good distraction.
That helps you ground yourself.
It helps with mindfulness.
It's a good distraction.
You have a job.
You can also remind yourselflike just keep pedaling.
Or you can use like comes from.
(26:38):
Rebecca Rush shared this duringa panel and I don't know who
originally gets credit for it.
But no matter how good or badyou feel, it won't last.
So even when you're kind oflike okay, when I hit the pain
cave or the dark and stormymiles, I know this feeling is
not going to last, right, right.
So I think that's important forthe preparation.
People are often like thinkpositive or visualize success.
It's like yes, and we need tobe realistic about what that
(27:01):
looks like.
Um, bike racing is hard, and ifyou are really racing for like
a PR or for a podium spot, or tolike push yourself in a way
that you haven't, it's going tohurt and it's going to suck, and
so you need to be prepared forthat.
Like there can't be like I'mgoing to feel like a superhero
the whole time, because youwon't.
If you're racing well, it meansthat you're pushing those
(27:21):
boundaries and it is going tohurt, right?
Kristen Bonkoski (27:23):
Set those expectations accordingly right,
set those expectationsaccordingly.
So Do you think, do you eversee people studying realistic
goal, realistic goals in theirmind, that where they're setting
the bar too low?
And the reason I asked this isI've learned from my son.
Very first time he ever did adownhill race.
He told me I'm going to win andI immediately told him no,
(27:45):
you're not going to win, that'slike no.
And he went out and won andyeah and um, and that just made
me realize like who am I tolower, try to lower his
expectations and I think aswomen, we probably do that quite
often to ourselves too Like Icould never make the podium.
(28:06):
I could never do this.
Erin Ayala (28:07):
Right, yep, yeah, that's that's I think so
important is asking yourself, oh, I could never make the podium,
I could never do this, right,Yep, yeah, that's that's I think
so important is asking yourself, like I always say, like a good
goal should feel, it shouldfeel like a reach, where it's
like, well, things are going toreally have to come together for
for this to happen.
Yeah, and then use your formerresults to help inform your
future goals, cause that canalso like, if you are always
(28:30):
reaching your goals, I meanthat's cool.
And it also depends on yourvalue system, right?
Because if you, if your goals,if your values are all about
like community, for example,like giving back altruism, your
performance and your goals interms of how you compare to
others may not be superimportant to you.
Yeah, so then, like that's cool, if you're the type of person
where, like that, yourperformance and your goals in
terms of how you compare toothers may not be super
important to you.
Kristen Bonkoski (28:49):
Yeah.
Erin Ayala (28:49):
So then, like that's cool.
If you're the type of personwhere, like that achievement is
important but you're more of aperfectionist, you might set
goals that are like too low ortoo high, and then you can set
yourself up for disappointmentas a result.
So it's having that kind of apost race reflection can be
wildly helpful.
And what I tell a lot ofathletes is like when we're
(29:10):
students quote unquote goodstudents if we're students who,
like care about performance, ifwe get a test and then we get it
back, we're going to lookthrough the questions that we
got, right and wrong, to reviewhow we did and like what did I
miss?
And we don't always do that forracing or cycling and I'm like,
(29:31):
why not?
So look back on the race andask yourself, like what did I
miss?
And then learn from that, andthen that can also inform your
goals for next time, right?
So?
And then it's also recognizinglike hold those goals lightly,
because weather conditions canvary extremely, like the course
(29:51):
conditions can really affecttime, especially off-road, and
so it's reminding yourself ofthat as well.
Kristen Bonkoski (29:58):
So what do you think the value of racing is
for folks who say, you know, I'mnever going to be on the podium
?
Erin Ayala (30:02):
I think a lot of endurance athletes we all have
our own stuff and that's one ofthe ways that we unpack it
(30:27):
Working toward a goal.
So let's say you're a middle ofpack racer and you want to do
like a 50 miler, having thestructure for training and then
following through on thatstructure, and then the race
itself is like your dessert orthe icing on the cake, where you
get to earn like theopportunity to finish that race
and feel good about it.
(30:48):
So it's more about you and yourprocess, so much less about how
you compare to others.
And being like this was reallygood for me because I trained, I
prioritized my health, mywellness, in order to get to
this start line, and so thenthis is where I really enjoy
what I've worked so hard for.
That's a fun way to frame it.
Kristen Bonkoski (31:09):
What about folks that kind of struggle with
that training and that processpiece, that this is very much me
.
I get to a race and I'm verytype A and I'm like, oh, but
wait, I wasn't very type A whileI was training.
Yeah, so how do you deal withthat part?
I mean the less fun aspects.
Erin Ayala (31:30):
Totally.
Yeah, there are three coreingredients.
When we look at the research,there's like kind of predictors
of motivation, because, you know, with training consistency,
some athletes love training andlike they love the grind when
racing is not their jam, andthen others are the opposite,
kind of like what you said, likeyeah, bring me to the race.
It's the daily grind and thetraining.
Yeah.
So in order to increasemotivation, there's three levers
(31:53):
that you can kind of pull on.
The first one is a sense ofautonomy or like having a choice
in the matter.
So it's asking yourself whatkind of training do I have and
am I happy with it?
And so a really common examplewould be like group rides or
Zwift races, Like they may notgive you the most bang for your
buck in terms of training andfitness because they're not
(32:14):
prescriptive, you're not doingformal intervals, but if they
motivate you and you've got achoice to do them, you're more
likely to do them, and so havingchoices in the matter.
So for anyone who has like aformal coach, talking to your
coach about the types ofworkouts that you like and don't
like, or asking your coach togive you options, like once a
week where you're like, okay, somy coach used to do like I'm in
(32:38):
Minnesota, so we've got plentyof snow, usually in the winter,
and so he would do things likeokay, you can do fat bike, you
can do snowshoes, you can hike,you can ski, just get out for
two hours.
And that was great formotivation, because then I had a
choice yeah.
Second lover or ingredient is asense of relatedness or
belonging.
So find some buddies oraccountability buddies, and it
(33:01):
might be things as silly asbeing like okay, if I don't send
you a selfie with my butt outof bed on the trainer by 7am on
Friday, I owe you $20.
Like, if you need to gamify it,you can.
Or have a standing like datewith some of your training
buddies where it's just likeonce a week you do your recovery
(33:23):
rides together at like 7pm onWednesdays, because then it's
not a decision you have to make,it's just something you do, and
then you feel like you belong,you've got someone to relate to.
And then the third and finallever is a sense of competence
and looking for improvements.
So if we feel like we're notreally making progress, we're
not going to be as motivated.
So it's like taking time out ofyour workouts and being what
(33:48):
went well today and like whatdid I improve on?
Um, and it might be somethinglike oh, my heart rate recovered
more quickly in between thethird and fourth interval.
Um, that's a sign of increasedfitness, that's cool.
Or like I didn't get droppedright away in the zwift race,
awesome, awesome.
So it's like making sure yougive yourself credit and that
can help consistency.
Kristen Bonkoski (34:06):
I love that second part, that community
piece, because that's been hugefor me personally.
So many women I talk to, though, have this fear of not
belonging or struggling findingthat community.
They're afraid to show up to agroup ride that they're going to
get dropped.
They're maybe afraid to up to agroup ride that they're going
to get dropped.
They're maybe afraid to go intothe bike shop because they're
going to get mansplained.
(34:27):
How do you get over that pieceof struggle.
Erin Ayala (34:32):
I think some of it is like often we create these
roles where we're like I'll feelmore confident when, or I'll do
such and such when I feel moreconfident where we like put this
like there's a contingencythere.
It's like, well, as long as I'mfeeling such and such, then
I'll be okay.
Um, or like I I'll feel moreconfident when I win my first
(34:55):
race, or you know, or when I goto a bike shop and I'm not
mansplained and there's not alot of like.
We can't control our emotionsand our feelings, unfortunately.
As humans, we just like toavoid the difficult ones, and so
what we need to do instead islean into them and make room for
them and then ask ourselves,like, okay, if I'm showing up as
(35:17):
that best version of myself andif I'm showing up as, like that
confident version of me that Iwant to be, what would that look
like?
What would I be doing?
And that's where you start.
Yeah, so really, we know thebehaviors come before the
feelings when it comes toconfidence, and so it's being
like okay, if I felt confident,what would I be doing?
(35:38):
And then can I create one likegoal or behavior based off of
that of being like yep, I'mgoing to go into the bike shop
and I'm going to tell them, likethis part of my bike is
squeaking and I think it mightbe this, but I'm not sure, and
we're going to give them achance to not mansplain, yeah,
and then, if they do, then havesome like plans around that
(35:58):
being like, is there anotherstaff member that I could speak,
with plans around that beinglike, is there another staff
member that I could speak with,Um or oh?
Interesting that you assumedthat I don't know about that, Um
, because my understanding isdah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
So like there are differentthose are like the
microaggressions.
There are different ways torespond.
Sometimes it's best to justdrop it, Um, other times it's
best to, you know, throw someshade, um, and like give them,
(36:19):
you know, give them somethingback.
It depends on your personalityand your vibe and how much
energy you have that day yeah,that's gold.
Kristen Bonkoski (36:26):
Thank you for that yeah what have I not asked
you that you would like folks to?
Erin Ayala (36:30):
know, um, probably something on like finding sports
psychologists and how to find aperson such a messy, complex,
nuanced field.
I, admittedly, might rufflesome feathers when I say this,
I'm just going to say it.
They are like anyone can callthemselves a mental performance
(36:52):
coach.
Just because someone has beenan athlete who has dealt with
mental stuff does not meanthere'll be a good mental
performance coach, or it doesn'tmean they have the competence
to be one.
Similar to we see this withendurance coaching as well.
Right, like anyone can callthemselves a cycling coach.
What is their training, what istheir credentials?
(37:15):
They might be a really greathuman being with really great
intentions, but may not realize,like they may not know what
they don't know.
And so when you're looking fora sports psychology provider,
it's okay and important to bepicky, especially if there's any
sort of mental health, becausethen you really want to find a
licensed mental health clinician.
(37:36):
And so we can kind of thinkback to that Venn diagram.
Let's say you've got injuryrecovery, performance, anxiety,
motivation, burnout, where youdon't really have a history of
depression and you're notconcerned about depression, team
drama.
Those are all like focus, goalsetting.
Those are all things that aretotally appropriate for a mental
(37:59):
performance coach to help youwith mental toughness.
Look for the CMPC acronym.
It stands for Certified MentalPerformance Consultant and that
is kind of the current goldstandard of what we've got in
the field to kind of showtraining and credibility.
So people who have a CMPC, theyhave to have a master's degree
(38:21):
related to sports, psychology orcounseling field.
They have to have, I want tosay it's like 200 hours working
with athletes, 50 hours ofmentorship with a formal
supervisor.
They have to have coursework incertain areas.
So it's pretty, they're vetted.
And then the other side of thediagram for mental health, if
(38:43):
you've got any history ofdepression or anxiety or any
other mental health concerns, Ireally do think it's important
to find a licensed mental healthclinician who also has
expertise in sport, because ageneralist mental health
clinician may not understand howimportant sport is in your life
and may forget to ask aboutthose things and then you just
(39:04):
don't feel seen because they'remissing this huge part of your
life.
So to find a person is,unfortunately it can be pretty
hard Ask, ask like friends ifyou know friends.
The kind of one of the goldstandard databases is the USOPC
mental health registry.
State states are funky withlicensure because if you have a
(39:28):
mental health therapist, theyneed to be licensed in your
state where you're physicallylocated.
And then if you're an athletewho travels a lot for races,
that also makes it funky becausethey have to be licensed to
wherever you're traveling aswell.
Um, so there's this thingcalled PSYPACT, and I realized
there's a lot of acronyms.
I can give you info and like wecould add them to the show
notes.
(39:50):
But PSYPACT is basically like adriver's license for
psychologists, where our licenseis seen as legit and I think 42
States at this point.
So so the USOPC mental healthregistry it's like you can just
Google it and it'll come up andit's a big Excel sheet and it
lists all of the providers inthere have expertise in sport
(40:11):
and mental health, and then youcan search by insurance and
state and so like if you startanywhere, that's a really kind
of safe place.
And then people can also justcontact me.
I'm always, I'm always helpingpeople find others, because they
know I'm picky and get in asoapbox about this stuff
sometimes, and so I can alsohelp kind of use my network and
(40:35):
being like okay, because alsocycling is a really kind of
funky sport and you, you don'twant to have to explain all of
the like.
What does it mean to, like,find a good line, or hug
someone's wheel, or you know,like, like, there's this lingo
and we, we get it, um, and soyou want to find someone who
gets it.
So um?
Kristen Bonkoski (40:54):
can people work with you on like online
virtually, or do you?
Erin Ayala (40:57):
Yeah, so, um, I do.
I'd say 50% of my sessions areare virtual Um cause only 50% of
my clients right now are inMinnesota.
Um, and so it's pretty coolCause I've got folks from all
over the U?
S right now, I think, 14 or 15different States.
I represented Um and it's kindof the hubs that you'd expect in
(41:18):
the cycling world, which iskind of fun.
Um, I've got you know, like alittle niche and kind of like
Pacific Northwest Colorado group, so like there's different
areas right now, like books arefull, which is a good problem to
have, but a problem nonethelessbecause I just I don't have
room for more individualathletes.
So one way that I've kind ofworked around that is I created
(41:39):
a recently created an onlinecourse and that's all about race
day preparation.
So it's basically I kind ofdumped all of the tools and
knowledge that I use for raceday prep with my individual
clients into an online learningmanagement system and so for
that, basically, what I did is Ibasically just said, okay,
we've got different lessons,here are the things that are
(42:01):
really important for race dayprep, and then there's a video,
there are activities, there's avery nerdy interactive
spreadsheet to help withplanning, and so people can use
that and access that anytime.
The course is live Right now.
It's live until September 27th,I think is when we're closing
the doors, and then probablyBlack Friday sale and then
(42:22):
another one at the start ofspring.
So that's another option.
Kristen Bonkoski (42:25):
And where can people come find that and where
can they follow you in general,online Instagram, scotty Sports
Psychology.
Erin Ayala (42:32):
Scotty is S-K-A-D-I and sport is singular.
And then my website isscottysportpsychologycom, and so
Instagram is where I spend mostof my time connecting with
people.
I'm not big on Facebook.
I'm kind of like thein-betweener with generations,
but also not on TikTok Same.
So Instagram is my jam, so I'mthe one who runs the account.
(42:57):
You can totally message methere if you've got questions.
Website has like a contact mefor email, all that fun stuff.
Kristen Bonkoski (43:03):
So and you do offer just a lot of good tips
and information on thatInstagram account as well.
Erin Ayala (43:08):
That's my goal.
Like we post every day it'slike it's, it's important to me.
I want to give back.
The field of sports psychologyunfortunately is not super
accessible and that's one of mygoals is to make it more
accessible and like lessintimidating for people, to kind
of get a feel for it, and sothen they know what to expect if
they decide to make the leap.
Kristen Bonkoski (43:27):
So yeah, I've got three final questions for
you.
The first one is what bike orbikes do you ride?
Erin Ayala (43:34):
Oh gosh.
Okay, I have five in my fleetright now.
I've got an Otso Voitek, whichis a fat bike.
Otso is a really cool companybased here in the Twin Cities,
so that one I feel like I'm onlike a monster truck in the snow
on the single track and it isso fun in winter.
I have a steel single speedgunner frame RIP because they
(44:01):
went out of business this pastyear, but that's like a small
Wisconsin based company.
Um, and I I love that bike.
It's super fun.
Um.
And then I've got a specializeddiverge for my long gravel with
gears.
So like my 200 milers, I'll doon that one or the really climby
races where I need gears.
I've got a specialized tarmacfor road and then I've got a
(44:24):
specialized Epic Evo for amountain bike and that is like
that one's a lot of fun, but mymountain biking skills are
mediocre at best I'm like littleBella's level.
So those are my bikes and Ilove them all for different
reasons.
Kristen Bonkoski (44:40):
Very good.
Second question is where's yourfavorite place?
You've ever ridden your bike?
Erin Ayala (44:46):
Ooh, oh, that's so hard.
Um, there's a couple of thingsthat come to mind.
Um, one is really random, but,um, theodore Roosevelt national
park, and there they have thisbig loop road and the way that
(45:07):
the park ranger explained it is,the terrain is kind of like
Swiss cheese.
There's just a lot of holesunderneath, and the roads for
that national park were notbuilt for these 40-foot RVs, and
so the road collapsed and isclosed.
So my spouse and I rode on theclosed road, um, when we went
through the park and it wasbreathtaking, it was so cool.
(45:29):
Um, so that was a reallyamazing ride.
Um, glacier National Park isbeautiful.
Um, I haven't done the going tothe sun road, but the last best
ride is a race that's out there.
That's equally challenging, asit is breathtaking.
Um, I feel like there wasanother one that came to mind.
I love the Flint Hills andunbound.
(45:51):
I just have a spot for it, likethe, the wildflowers and how
rugged and exposed that terrainis.
Um, so, yeah, it's hard to pickone.
Kristen Bonkoski (46:01):
I love the Theodore Roosevelt one.
I've never heard anyone saythat.
Erin Ayala (46:04):
Yeah, yeah, that was a really cool one.
Kristen Bonkoski (46:07):
Final question is what is your favorite thing
about riding your bike?
Erin Ayala (46:11):
My favorite thing.
I think it's.
I don't want to say it forcesme to be unplugged because I can
still listen to podcasts andmusic, but it is like it urges
me to connect more mindful andintentional with my surroundings
(46:31):
.
I can push as hard or as littleas I want to.
It has connected me with somany amazing people.
I think that's probably one ofthe main things I love about it.
It's not even the riding itself, it's like what the community
represents.
And then it's also a reflectionof just my own personal journey
(46:53):
and growth, because I'veunpacked so many skeletons in
the closet while on those reallylong rides and worked through
so much stuff personally andprofessionally, leaned into my
professional identity as asports psychologist, in large
part because of cycling right.
Kristen Bonkoski (47:16):
So it just it embodies so much for me.
I love it.
I'd love to ask you a favor Ifyou enjoyed this episode, can
you please go ahead and share it?
You can do that by sharing iton your Instagram stories or
just letting a friend know aboutit.
The more that you help us getthe word out, the more women we
reach, the better quality ofguests we get on the show.
So it's a team effort and Ireally, really appreciate you.
(47:37):
Until next time, happy writing.
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