The Mathematic Formula for Happiness

Welcome to the Fight the Good Fight Club Podcast! In today's transformative episode, co-hosts Marcel Pope and Cynthia Cintron take us on a deep dive into the world of forgiveness and its incredible impact on our lives. From personal stories of overcoming childhood trauma to practical steps on how to embrace forgiveness daily, Marcel and Cynthia shed light on the true meaning of peace and happiness.

They introduce the Forgiveness Experiment, a powerful exercise aimed at cleansing the mind of negative thoughts and fostering unconditional love. By exploring the equation H = POM (Happiness equals Peace of Mind), they reveal the secrets to living a life filled with purpose, love, joy, and peace.

Join us for this inspiring conversation and learn how to let go of past grievances, heal emotional wounds, and cultivate a peaceful mind. Whether you're struggling with personal issues or seeking to enhance your relationships, this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice. Remember, the fight for happiness and peace starts within. Keep fighting the good fight!

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Fight the Good Fight Club, the podcast
about the relentless pursuit ofa life and relationship filled
with purpose, love, joy, andpeace.
If you're ready to get real anddig deep, then you're ready for
Fight the Good Fight Club.

SPEAKER_05 (00:15):
Welcome to Fight the Good Fight Club with Cynthia and
Marcel.
Hey Marcel.
Good morning.
So today we are doing somethingreally exciting.
We're gonna do an uh overview ofFight the Good Fight Club.
We've done a couple of uh whatare in our minds seasons, I

(00:37):
guess, of Fight the Good FightClub, and we thought it would be
a great time to sort of revisit,talk about what our mission is,
what we're doing, why we'redoing it.
And um, we also have somethingreally interesting and exciting
to introduce.

SPEAKER_04 (00:54):
Yes, it's almost like a checkpoint on where are
we after all these episodes andall these lessons and after all
these years of all these ideasthrough from a course in
miracles, and not only that, butjust from all the other studies
you and I have done to try tomaintain uh unconditional
happiness and find unconditionallove.

(01:15):
Uh from the onset, though, uhone of our previous episodes was
Lesson 79 from A Course inMiracles.
Let me recognize the problem sothat it can be solved.
So today we're gonna talk aboutuh the problem and its solution.
The the problem is, and I'mgonna summarize in one equation.
This is what we all want.

(01:36):
Most of us anyway.
I'll just say many of us wantthis, and it's been elusive for
me personally.
P excuse me, H equals P O M.

SPEAKER_05 (01:46):
Okay, repeat that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:47):
H equals P O M.
So I was thinking of Einstein,who's all those equations, all
those mathematics, all thephysics, he came up with one
summary, E equals M C squared.
Almost everyone's familiar withthat, right?
Yep.
So now that was of the physicaluniverse.
So we're talking about a mentaluniverse here.

(02:08):
So H equals P O M, summarized.
Happiness equals peace of mind.
And it's exactly what ourpodcast is, right?
Be still free your spirit.
Find peace within.
So the peace within is yourpeace of mind, and your spirit's
free and you're happy.

(02:28):
So H equals POM.
So now the problem is there isno happiness without peace of
mind.
Although peace of mind ishappiness.
So now, why is there not peaceof mind?
And we've covered it.
I was gonna say ad nauseum, butit's it's the crux of the one

(02:49):
problem.
The mind's not at peace becauseit's holding on to grievances is
the bottom line.
And when you're holding on togrievances, they're mutually
exclusive.
You can't have happiness andhold a grudge.
It may appear that you do, andthat's why we go up and down.
Fits of anger, fits ofunhappiness, this this up and
down, you know, oh, thismarriage didn't work, and now

(03:12):
I'm upset again.
Why didn't that work?
Where's my happiness?
Because remember from the onset,everything we need is within.
So Fight the Good Fight Club isabout fighting for our happiness
from within and our peace ofmind.
That is the good fight.
So now, how did we it's nothasn't been lost.

(03:34):
The peace is there, thehappiness is there, but they're
clouded because we're holding onto grievances.
What are grievances?
You and I have probably justused our intellect to do just
empirically come up with whatthe handful of grievances are
from a young age, right?
It's not feeling worthy, notfeeling loved, abandonment,

(03:58):
abuse.
It's abuse of emotional,physical, sexual, all the things
that many of us experience.
So that's the grievances thatwe're holding aside, and the
pain and suffering from those,and that's ruining our peace of
mind, and therefore that's whywe don't have happiness.
Yes.
That's what this is about.

SPEAKER_05 (04:14):
Absolutely.
And actually last night, uh youposed a question, and it was
really great.
It really caused us to thinkabout where does it begin?
Where does it start?
When do we start to havegrievances?
When do we begin that process ofpains and hurts and and fear and

(04:37):
anger and all of that stuff?
And you said, Sophia, when whendid uh you start, do you think?
And I said, Well, when you're achild, when you're little,
little itty bitty bitty, and Ialways picture myself as a
little child holding uh thedoorknob over my head with my
hand.
So I'm thinking about three,four years old.

(04:58):
That's kind of when you start toreason.
Most people, I think, have theirfirst memories back then.
Uh Jesse, our producer, I'mgonna ask you when when do you
remember having your first, yourearliest memories?
Were you two, three, four?
When when do you rememberearliest memories?
Dot two?
Okay.
So yeah, that's about right.
Two, three.
So when you're when you're achild, a child has this amazing

(05:23):
gift of making everything aboutthemselves, right?
So if parents divorce, it's myfault.
I I didn't eat my dinner, Ididn't behave, I didn't.
So children will make everythingthat happens about themselves.
So let's say you are a child ofdivorce, for example.

(05:45):
Um, when you're a little kid,you have fear.
You have fear of abandonment,you feel abandoned by your mom
or your dad because they left,right?
They left the house.
And that's when your first fearof abandonment happened.
And you're a little one, youdon't know why, but that
happened.
Another thing that happens whenyou're really small,

(06:07):
unfortunately, one out of everythree females, one out of every
five males are sexually abusedin some way, right?
They have a uh an encounter ofsexual abuse.
Um, whether it's a familymember, whether it's a friend.
We were talking about this aswell.
Is it a friend?
Is it a family member?

(06:28):
Is it um someone in a positionof authority?
That will happen whether it's atouch or uh something they saw
or something.
There's some experience, andthat happens fairly early on.
Again, a child uh maybe in theirteens, maybe preteens, um, maybe

(06:49):
very little.
Marcel and I were talking, and Isaid I remember um having nap
time.
So that's probably maybe four orfive years old.
And there was this little girlthat rolled over and she like
lifted her dress or something.
The lights are off, and we're onour mats.
Do you remember that when youwere on mats in nap time in
school?

(07:09):
And this little girl is likefacing me and she's like showing
me her hoo-ha or whatever,whatever they called it on voice
on the side or something, youknow, but whatever the name is.
Um, she's showing it to me.
She's like, show me yours.
And I'm like, no, and I rolledover and went and went to sleep.
But that was like four or fiveyears old.

(07:31):
And I am 53 years old, people,and I remember this five-second
thing that happened when I was atiny little, you know, little
kid at nap time.
And was that an abuse?
Uh no.
I those were kids experimenting.
But if I had it, if thatsituation had happened

(07:53):
differently, it may have shapedmy entire life.
It may have shaped my entirelife.
I don't know.
Um, but things like that thatare happening, kids.
I I told Marcel also that I didum an episode in a publication
that I owned, not an episode, anarticle, in a publication that I
owned, and it was sexuality,cradle to grave.

(08:14):
And um, it is normal forchildren to have sexual play um
as early as four or five yearsold, right?
Because they're experiencingthemselves.
And that's normal.
But if if a child is in anenvironment where uh they are
caught and chastised for that,that could scar them for life.

(08:37):
Again, children internalize thateverything is their fault, and
they hold on to that.
So to your point where we startto have fear, shame, sadness,
all of these emotions,abandonment.

SPEAKER_04 (08:54):
And then yes, I was gonna say abuse.
Yeah.
There can be emotional abuse.
You're little, you were toldyou're a fat, like I was, or me
too.
Jesse had mentioned too, isaround two years old, I
remember, maybe a littleyounger.
My my father was really upset,and I had mentioned this before,
he was breaking my mother'schina from Japan.
He was just smashing it, and Iwas sitting there watching, he

(09:15):
was just angry.
So that was a form uh that wasan abusive environment.
And so I was subject to that.
And and you that impresses onyou, and that forms, you know, I
was scared, didn't know what washappening, you don't know what's
happening to you, but thatfeeling pervades throughout your
whole life.
And so that's the whole reasonfor this whole thing.
So those ideas of fear, loss,abandonment, abuse, physically,

(09:40):
emotionally, sexually, all thosethings happen, and they're
they're part of our experience.
And we're starting to gather.

SPEAKER_05 (09:47):
It's almost like a bag, right?
We start gathering thesegrievances, and then when we
come into our adult life, wehaven't we haven't um made sense
of it.

SPEAKER_04 (09:56):
And what we're still carrying that and is spilling
over into our relationships.

SPEAKER_05 (10:01):
Well, what we do is that we start now gathering, we
start to gather evidence thatproves that we're right.

SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (10:11):
Right?
So if I have an abandonmentissue, well, somebody abandoned
me because I'm not lovable,right?
So I'm gonna start to createexperiences or any time that
something comes up that I can,that the little voice in my head
can say, You see, you're notlovable.
So you start to create evidenceto support that.

(10:32):
So it amplifies that grievance.
And then when you're old enoughto start to make your own
decisions, what do we do?
Now we start making decisionsthat will support that
grievance.
So for me, I had um abandonmentissues and I felt that I wasn't
lovable, and I felt um I didn'thave a relationship, a good

(10:54):
relationship with my mother.
So when I left my parents'house, what did I do?
I went right from my parents'house into an abusive
relationship where I wassexually abused, physically
abused, emotionally abused.
It was, you know, I almost died.
I almost lost my life.
Any abuse will do.
Any abuse will do, because youknow why?
As long as it just attention.

SPEAKER_04 (11:17):
Yeah, any abuse will do.

SPEAKER_05 (11:18):
Yeah, we're yeah, we're absolutely well.
What happened was that Iwouldn't I didn't leave that
relationship because Iunconsciously was looking for
love in any way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_04 (11:36):
And you equated love with abuse.

SPEAKER_05 (11:38):
Yeah.
So it was attention.
It was attention, right?
Yeah.
So and and so a lot of a lot ofpeople that come from an abusive
environment will seek will willcome will go into that because
it's familiar, right?
It's a familiar um relationship.
Even if it's not comfortable,even if it's not good, it's
familiar, and then we don't knowhow to leave it, and then we're

(11:59):
recreating that, and now wethink it's our own fault.
So I I'm telling you, the firstthree years of that
relationship, I believed that Iwas and he told me that
basically it was my own fault,right?
That he was doing what he wasdoing because I was doing I I
wasn't loving him enough, Iwasn't behaving the way that he
needed me to behave, so I wouldlose weight, I would do anything

(12:23):
that I could do to figure out away to get him to love me in a
way that was healthy.

SPEAKER_04 (12:31):
There's a but it wasn't gonna happen.
There's a twist on what he said.
It kind of is your own faultbecause but you didn't know why,
because you have the power tochange your thoughts and leave
him, right?
You stayed.
Whose fault was it you stayed?
I mean, let me say it adifferent way.
Take responsibility for stayingwith him.

SPEAKER_05 (12:49):
But you're not to leave.
Correct.
I didn't know how to leave.
So I I became a victim andvictimizer.

SPEAKER_04 (12:56):
Yeah, no, let me just change.
No, it wasn't your fault.
However, at any point You'resaying it's my fault.
There's take it we're taking youoff the idea that we can take
responsibility, but we don'tknow how.
So so I don't know if we'regonna tangent off this too much
of the topic, is really H equalsP O M.

(13:20):
So the peace of mind is ruinedby grievances from all these
things, abuses of every type,every kind.
Forget why they got there.
I mean, you can go back andtrace, but the fact that they're
there is is really what we'rehoning in on.
It's almost like if you're iflife, uh if our mind has a a
spirit running through it verycalmly, there's no like in a

(13:41):
stream rapids, but a boulder isthrown in there, it disrupts the
water, the stream, and then youget enough of them, then you
have rap and there's turbulencein your mind.
And that's the uh that disruptsyour peace.
So you gotta get the bouldersout of there, and what and you
gotta identify what they are andlet them go.
Feel them, feel the pain ofwhatever was caused, but realize

(14:02):
that and and this we're leadingup to how to let them go.

SPEAKER_05 (14:06):
So well, we become comfortable with the pain, yeah,
and it's something that'sfamiliar, and we just kind of
don't know how to how to leavethat.
I have friends who, as I said,I'm in my 50s, and I have um
girlfriends who are goingthrough divorces, right?
And um they're dating, and it'sreally interesting because I'll

(14:28):
find I have a girlfriend that umshe dates younger men and uh she
has um sexual relations withthem really quickly because she
feels like she's competing withyounger girls for their
attention.
I'm like, what are you doing?
Are you kidding?

SPEAKER_04 (14:45):
But she feels worthy if she can succeed.

SPEAKER_05 (14:48):
Well, she wants this guy so badly, or she wants to be
in a relationship, better said,so badly that she doesn't see
her worth.
So she feels that whatever comesher way, she has to do anything
that she can do to compete to bein this relationship.
And what she doesn't realize isby the way, beautiful woman,

(15:09):
brilliant.
Uh, just I I would date her ifshe were a guy and she weren't
you and I didn't have you in mylife.
Like, I'm like, I would, it'slike, you are amazing.
Why are you accepting?
Why are you selling yourself soshort?
Like, you don't even allow theguy to love you to come.

(15:31):
And by the way, here's a funnything that I told her that she
doesn't accept.
I've actually spoken to a guywho's on the other side of that.
And he said to me, Man, I hatethe fact that women who are age
appropriate, I can't date womenwho are age appropriate because
they just want to have sex andthey don't want to have a
relationship.
Like I wanna, I wanna be in arelationship.

(15:53):
I want to, I want to talk to awoman, I want to have a partner
in my life.
And every time I I meet a newwoman, she just wants to have a
sexual relationship.
And I'm like, that is so crazy.
I'm talking to both sides of theeach his own, right?

SPEAKER_04 (16:06):
They're in a different so to each other's.

SPEAKER_05 (16:08):
By the way, I see that I see that you are that
you're you're being triggered.

SPEAKER_03 (16:12):
What's wrong, hon?
You're being triggered.
I I said something that wasreally insensitive.
I said it was your fault.

SPEAKER_05 (16:17):
Oh, hon.

SPEAKER_03 (16:18):
And so I'm sorry.
What was it that you said?

SPEAKER_04 (16:21):
Oh, those things that happened to you was your
fault.
And that that's not what myintention was.
You had some horrible thingsthat happened to you, it wasn't
your fault.
So what I'm trying to say is I'msorry.
What I was trying to say is.

SPEAKER_05 (16:34):
Can I stop you right there?
Can I stop you right there?
Um thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
Thank you.
That's not what I was saying.
Thank you.
This wasn't your fault.
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (16:44):
This but but I I want to stop here because three
years ago when we starteddating, not only would you not
have recognized that you saidsomething that was insensitive,
you would have doubled down onit and been like, what's your
problem?
Like, move on.
And three years ago, you wouldhave said that.

(17:09):
I would have gone home and Iwould not I would have been so
stuck on that you said that, andI would have tried to figure out
a way to to mitigate that.
But look at where we are here.
You are recognizing that, andfor me, I'm not even triggered
by it at all.
So it's it's pretty amazing.
I just want to say that'samazing.

SPEAKER_04 (17:29):
I want to say the least thing I'd ever do is say
anything offense to anyone.

SPEAKER_05 (17:32):
Thank you, bit.

SPEAKER_04 (17:34):
But your ego is much bigger than your heart back
then.
Well, I I'm trying to get from Ato Z without going through the
whole alphabet these days.
I don't I don't who knows howmuch more time any of us have.
And this is this is all relatingto this entire episode.
Yeah.
I don't want to spend any moretime on sadness and you know uh

(17:55):
past grievances, holding on togrievances, just want to forgive
and just be happy.
Happiness equals peace.
I want peace of mind.
But I realized when I said thathow horrible that that sounded.
And saying that, oh yeah, he'sright in what he said.
No.
What I was trying to say is atsome point, hopefully, we can
find much of the strength tomake a decision to take

(18:16):
responsibility for how we feel,and not count on someone outside
of us to say something, dosomething, or be a certain way
to make us happy.
And that's really what I wastrying to say.
So taking responsibility for howwe feel and understanding why,
and that's so this is so whenyou talked about your girlfriend

(18:37):
and her body and what she does,so here's the crux of it all.
Remember the one problem is theidea that we are separated.
So our spirit if the fundamentalidea is that we are spirits,
we're eternal.
And I think there apparently alot of people believe that.

SPEAKER_05 (18:56):
And those spirits are love, right?
So we are love and light.

SPEAKER_04 (19:00):
So we're pure, peace, love, and light.
So we come into this world as aspirit who's perfect, whole,
complete, nothing but love.
We enter a body, and then wehave a mind.
The mind the spirit comes intothe body with a mind.
Okay.
Then the mind becomes split.
It forgets its mind of spirit,now it's the mind of body, and

(19:22):
that part of our mind identifieswith the body, and that's where
the separation begins, so tospeak.
That split mind.
So because of that, the bodyfeels the effects of all the
pain and suffering of the ideaof separation.
Thank you.
That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_05 (19:39):
So so describe now.
We've got the two minds, right?

SPEAKER_04 (19:42):
The mind of the spirit and mind of the body.

SPEAKER_05 (19:44):
So the mind of the spirit is the love, the peace,
the light.
It's absolute perfection.

SPEAKER_04 (19:51):
It can never be broken, is always there, is
forever.

SPEAKER_05 (19:56):
Okay, and then so the mind of the body is where we
house the hurts and the pain.

SPEAKER_04 (20:05):
So the mind of the body is the one that feels
separated, scared, afraid.
Now it's a dog eat dog world, alife and death struggle.
Everything is in a means to anend of survival.
And it's a good thing.
And the ego runs that part ofit, right?
Our egos run that part of it.
And that's where conditionalhappiness lies.
Conditional love lies.

(20:27):
Okay.
Unconditional love and happinessis of the mind of the spirit,
which is quietly waiting overhere.
Waiting.
Just waiting all the time.
That one act of a split mindthrows up the barrier and blocks
out the mind of the spirit.
And now we're caught up in ourminds of all this pain and
suffering, which answers thequestion why are so many people

(20:51):
harming other people?
Because they're caught up intheir minds, and they're so
here's the key words unlovingthoughts come out of a separate,
split mind.
And if you're having unlovingthoughts, then you're
identifying with your body andyour mind.
Because we are not bodies.
Um, you know what uh catacombsare?
Stacked relics, stackedskeletons.

(21:11):
Almost every country's got them.
But think about every one ofthose bodies was at once covered
in flesh and a person with aspirit and a mind.
So now those the mind's gone,the life's gone, the flesh's
gone, nothing but bones.
So was that who is that who weare?
We're skeletons covered.
No, we are the life that it'slike a lamp.

(21:31):
The lamp lights up.
The light in the lamp is who weare.
So the idea is this.
Now that's where all the painthe body feels the effects of
the abuse, emotional, sexual,physical, the loss, the fear,
because it feels separated fromits eternal source of life.
So the transition is to if youcan just let those cloud of

(21:53):
grievances go, the mind ofspirit comes back.

SPEAKER_05 (21:57):
Right.
So when all of those thingshappen, we make decisions,
right?
And then we have um because Iwant to I want to bring in here
this concept of where you talkabout a sick mind and delusional
mind.
Yeah, so we make decisions andwe have thoughts that reinforce

(22:18):
and that keep us and actuallydrive us further and further and
further and further away fromthe peace, the love, and the
perfection that we are.
So what we're doing with Fightthe Good Fight Club, the fight
is to go from the sick, broken,sad, angry, guilty, shameful

(22:41):
thoughts to focus and be of thelight, the healthy, peaceful.
And and we want to spend now wecan't do this 24-7, right?
We can't be perfect people all.

(23:32):
I mean, I I think a lot aboutwhy we're here.
And for me, I think that um wecome here to learn lessons.
So I don't, I'm not upset at theat the difficulties that I
experience because without thedarkness, there's no light,
right?
I don't see, I don't know that Iam a beautiful, perfect being if

(23:54):
I haven't seen what it's like tobe an imperfect, broken being.
So I embrace the the negativethings that happen in my life
because they bring me closer tothe light.
They make that light part shine.
So at this stage in my life, I'mso full of joy and happiness

(24:15):
because I am closer, because I'mfinding I'm in a relationship.
My partner um and I are enjoyingthis beautiful, gorgeous, happy,
loving relationship.
And it comes with its negativemoments.

SPEAKER_04 (24:34):
It's it's coming from the spirit, mind of the
spirit.
Yeah.
And it's letting all thegrievances go.
Yeah, when you do that, but itcan be very hard to do because
some of them are deeplyingrained in us, it's it's who
we become.
So that's the epitome, right?
Somebody using their body to getwhatever their validations are
because they're so identifiedwith the they think they are the

(24:54):
body, and so if you accept mybody, then you accept who I am.
No, the idea here is that we arespirits.
So we come into this world andwe're gonna leave as spirits and
we're hopefully be a wisespirit, right?
We've learned what we're not.
That's the whole idea.
We learn what we are by learningby experiencing who we're not.
But in that time, this is reallyuh can be a joyful life, a happy

(25:17):
life, if we don't get hung up onthe things that weren't supposed
to happen to our bodies that weallowed into our minds.
Something can happen to yourbody, but remember that's just
the body.
And you know, I was joking withyou, going, you know, here's one
scenario to where, you know, yougot here you are as we're a

(25:38):
human, and then but you're awareof the spirit of the mind, of
the mind of the spirit, andsomebody does something to your
body that you didn't welcome, itwas violent, whatever, and you
and go, how was your day?
And you well, my mind said to myspirit, look what happened to
the body I occupy.
It was a it was amazing.
Just this I got beat up.
It was crazy what happened to mybody.

(25:59):
That's one scenario, right?

SPEAKER_03 (26:01):
The other scenario is look what this person did to
me.

SPEAKER_04 (26:04):
See the difference?
You are the body, you thinkyou're the body, and the damage
was done to the body.
The other scenario was we areminds, we are spirits, we are
not bodies, and that's thepoint.
Well, I think any harm done toour bodies, that's that's what
happens to our bodies.
Yeah.
It's up to us whether or not welet it happen to our minds.

(26:25):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (26:25):
So in practical application, I think um just to
sort of explain the the the bodyand and the mind separation,
when something happened, I knowthat um, like for example, you
know, sexual abuse that happenedto me, that happened to my body,
and then I I went into my intovictim mode, right?
I'm a victim or or I'm asurvivor of sexual abuse, right?

(26:47):
Well, in order for me to be ableto move beyond that and be able
to have a life that isn't ruledby this thing that has happened
to my body.
Um, and and by the way, justlike this, I can talk about it.
I can recount, I can tell youthe entire story of exactly what

(27:08):
happened.
It doesn't mean that I'm happyit happened, it doesn't mean
that it's like the like Ihaven't moved into the space
where it's like, hey, check outwhat happened in my body, but
I'm so happy about it, I'm fine,I'm I'm at peace with it, or
whatever.
No, it's something thathappened.
But when I when I accepted whathappened, and when I came into

(27:30):
the realization that it was mychoice whether I was going to
let this event that happened inmy life rule my life.
And when I decided that I wasgoing to move beyond that, and
that I was gonna have joy andpeace and love in my life, um, I

(27:52):
was able to see thatdifferently.
I was able to that event, I wasable to, hey, guess what?
Forgive that part of my lifebecause there was this one
really horrible, um, reallylife-altering I well, everyone
has life-altering experiences,right?

(28:14):
That that that sort of I thinkDr.
Phil said that there are liketen moments in your life that
that define your life, right?
And that could be a death, thatcould be uh um an accident, it
could be a loss, it could be, Imean, that but there are ten
defining moments in your life.
This is one of those definingmoments in my life.
Um and I spent a lot of timeblaming myself for putting

(28:39):
myself in that situation.
I took this man on this businesstrip with me where I almost lost
my life, where I was held andabused and beaten and almost
killed.
I was almost murdered.
Um and um I I blame myself.
I I moved from blaming him toblaming myself.

(29:01):
And usually that that that wouldthat's what happens in a lot of
situations.
That person is gone from mylife.
They've moved on, they've gottenmarried, they've had children,
they've, you know, having joyfulexperiences.
They have moved on, but I'mholding on to it, right?
I am blaming myself, I'm blaminghim, I'm just, you know,

(29:22):
recreating it over and over andover and over and over in my
head, and not allowing myself tohave joyful relationships
because I'm so hung up, right,on this terrible thing that
happened to me.
Um, then there came a pointwhere I decided to really face
it.
And I did this with my personaldevelopment groups, I did this
through therapy, I did thisthrough a lot of uh personal

(29:45):
healing and forgiveness.
And I finally came to a placewhere I forgave myself and
forgave what you explained tome, which I didn't understand
until recently.
I forgave.
gave the part of his mind thatdid or that allowed him to do

(30:07):
what he did to me.
That's right.

SPEAKER_04 (30:10):
You forgot you forgive his unloving thoughts
that result from the actionsthat he carried out on your
body.
And it it sounds like a a way tojustify it, but you're trying to
get down to the truth and you'retrying to let the grievance go.
I didn't forget it.

SPEAKER_05 (30:23):
I haven't forgotten it.
I haven't what I've done is whatI've done is in forgiving myself
and that part of his mind, I setmyself free.
Forgiveness is an act of lovethat allows you to set yourself
free from the hurts and thepains that keep you tied, that

(30:46):
keep you sad and stuck inunhappiness and misery.

SPEAKER_04 (30:50):
How does it end?
How does it all end?
So okay he did that to youyou're angry now you're going to
go create extend that misery insome other form to someone else
and then they're going wheredoes it stop?

SPEAKER_05 (31:02):
And this is why this whole I mean I I invited toxic
relationships in my life afterthat over and over and over
again until the day that Idecided that I wasn't going to
do that to myself that I wasgoing to love myself that I was
going to embrace the peace thelove and the joy that I am
entitled to from birth.
I came into this world to behappy and joyful and experience

(31:24):
this.

SPEAKER_04 (31:25):
And sometimes experiences of that sort can
derail you and you get lost init and now you forget who you
are which is an eternal spirit.
Exactly that's what this wholeidea is all about is remembering
who we really are so um thatwhole so unforgiving him for his
unloving thoughts that resultedin the actions of his body upon

(31:49):
your body is really wisdom isspiritual wisdom.
Then you forget it and youforgive him let it go because
here's the key if you're holdingthat boulder and the stream of
life flowing through you isgoing to cause disruption and
there won't be peace.
And remember happiness equalspeace of mind.
And so you're always going tohave something on there's always

(32:11):
going to be a little chip onyour shoulder a little bit of
fear.
Fear and love are mutuallyexclusive you can't have both
it's one or the other if youthat's the funny thing though if
you if you have a lot of love inyou but some fear you won't be
able to fully love.
The fear will block it andthere's always that apprehension
so you're not at peace.
So and and this I've read a lotthere are very few people I

(32:36):
think who really know how tolive it.
And there are many people outthere who have they they they
write books about it they try toteach us you know and it's but
so hard to get rid of thesegrievances.
Why'd this happen to me?
Life's unfair you know and it'slike at some point we just gotta
get all the boulders out of thestream.
We got to completely forgive andlet go of all the grievances.

(32:56):
And if you do it for yourselfyou also do it because all of
our minds are connected we'renot alone in experiencing the
effects of of a mass shooting weall feel the pain of that right
we do.
We all feel it and we all feelwhen someone saw something on
court cam.
This guy murdered uh her thislady's son she got up there and
says I forgive you she goes Ihave mercy on your soul you're

(33:19):
like like a like a child youcould have been my child and I
feel bad for your mother I feelbad for your family I forgive
you and I however no reason shegoes I don't want that in me and
I feel I pray for you and so shewas extending forgiveness rather
than anger and because shedidn't have that in her she goes
I don't want those feelings inme.
So that in that moment of wheremost people would hate and be
angry and be victimized becauseit took her only son you know

(33:42):
and I thought that's the messagethat I want to live the rest of
my life is peace, love,forgiveness and happiness.

SPEAKER_05 (33:49):
And it doesn't negate anything I think that's
one of the things that peoplefeel and I felt it for a really
really long time if I forgivethen I'm giving that person a
pass.
I'm giving them a pass.
I'm saying that what they did isokay.
That is false.
Yeah that is absolutely falsethat event happened to you it it

(34:12):
absolutely hurt and and youstill remember that what we're
suggesting is and what manysuggest and what forgiveness
suggests is that you are lovingyourself enough not to be
constantly persecuted by thisthing that happened to you once

(34:32):
right yeah it's yeah so you'reloving yourself but really so
loving yourself is being thespirit that you are the loving
spirit the spirit of love iswhat you're embracing and
extending not the pain of thebody right it's not the physical
pain of the body and theidentification with the body and
this is so this is spiritualwisdom at its height.

(34:55):
And so what I'd like to do herebecause we're kind of moving
into um when we come back fromthe break we are going to dive a
little deeper into forgivenessand focus and introduce uh
something that we're veryexcited about and um I think
you'll be excited about it too.

(35:16):
I'm excited about it.
So come back to Fight the GoodFight Club.

SPEAKER_02 (35:22):
Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_05 (35:23):
If you're enjoying this episode and you'd like to
help support the podcast pleasesubscribe and tell your friends
for more tips and ways to digdeep and get real sign up for
our newsletter read blogs andshop our merch at fight the good
fight club.com one of the thingsthat I think we forgot to
mention when we were talkingabout Fight the Good Fight Club

(35:44):
before we dig before we diveinto uh the forgiveness
experiment and forgiveness Fightthe Good Fight Club is based on
Marcel's readings of a course inmiracles uh it began because
Marcel and I years ago when westarted dating uh I would come

(36:08):
back I think I would come backfrom Pilates or walking the
bridge or doing something andMarcel would run and we would
kind of meet up like on aSaturday morning at his place on
the beach.
It was wonderful and I wouldwalk in the door and I'd say
what did you read today?
What is the lesson today?
And he would tell me about itand I was really curious and I

(36:31):
thought it was reallyinteresting and something that
I'd never heard of before and Idon't know he just started
teaching me and and he's gotthis great voice and and I just
really was excited about what hewas reading about every week.

SPEAKER_04 (36:47):
You know and it took me a while to really understand
what it was really it's aboutour minds.
It's all it really is about it'sabout our minds and who we
really are we are eternalspirits and then we come here as
human beings and then we have amind that can freely choose one
way or the other we can choosethe mind of the spirit or the
mind of the body and that'swhere all hell breaks loose

(37:08):
exactly based on whatever wechoose.
We get lost in the identific sowe've spent good time on that
but I I did want to mention youmentioned go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 (37:17):
Oh and then um one day you called me I was going to
move on to say how we startedthe the podcast but finish our
okay so we're so polite witheach other.
Don't worry people we stillargue we'll be doing this for
years we're loving and arguingand loving and making up and
having good times.
By the way that's fighting thegood fight club we are human and

(37:40):
until the day we die thedifference is how we do it and
that we always remember that welove each other and we have
higher highs which are reallyamazing and we have less lows
which is super amazing.
Yeah so one day Marcel called meand said hey I want to do a
podcast I just started thiscompany Fight the Good Fight

(38:00):
Club and we're gonna do this andI remember I was on the phone
and I'm like what is he talkingabout?
Okay sure I'm a project managerand I create things and bring me
an idea and I'll make it happen.
And then we started talking andand we created Fight the Good
Fight Club called Jesse ourproducer at Space Coast Podcast

(38:21):
and said hey we want to do apodcast and then we started
formulating so our firstepisodes are a little rough
because um although the idea wasfantastic actually creating the
show uh we had to create ourformat and something that felt
right and something that thatwas um comfortable for for us to

(38:42):
be able to impart because uh wewe knew that what we were
talking about was was wonderfulfor us but we didn't know
exactly how we were going topresent it to others to accept
so that's kind of been ourjourney and now we have taken it
a step further Marcel called mebecause he does this he calls me

(39:04):
and says I have something reallycool I want to do the
forgiveness experiment and I'mlike what?

SPEAKER_04 (39:10):
Okay back to the drawing board what are we
creating the forgivenessexperiment sounds cool what is
it so that one of the lastlessons we did let me recognize
the problem so it can be solvedand we've already mentioned the
problem the problem is our peaceof mind is ruined and we're not
happy happiness equals peace ofmind H equals P O M, right?
So now it's the grievances we'reholding on to that is ruining

(39:34):
our peace of mind and ruiningour happiness and the grievances
are someone outside of us hurtus because we identified with
the body so it's realizing thatwe are spirit.
But to be spirit we have to letall of our grievances go and so
what's what's the only way to dothat is to forgive.

(39:54):
That's why I had mentioned nextto love itself the highest act
of love is forgiveness and thisis why it really is because when
you're holding a grievance inyour mind your mind is now
tainted.
You've now got a boulder in thestream of life that's trying to
flow through it.
And so you've just got to getrid of all of them whatever they

(40:17):
are doesn't matter whoperpetrated it why it happened
you were defenseless as a childit's you're getting rid of the
blame shame guilt game andyou're taking ownership
responsibility and you're justgonna forgive everyone for
everything.
And because you don't want asingle thing in your mind it's
like hey this is an awfulexample when you're gonna eat

(40:39):
food how much quote well howmuch cow manure do you want in
your food when you're eating itright none right so your mind's
the same way how much grievancedo you want in your mind to
taint the love that you want tohave and be how much none right
and I thought wow so I reallybecause I I keep reading in this

(41:02):
and I and I'm really starting toget it our minds are the key to
our happiness.

SPEAKER_05 (41:08):
Yeah and and to expand on that and and do and
provide a a real world exampleit's really interesting um uh if
you've been listening to thepodcast for a while you know
that I went through uhforgiveness with my parents who
I didn't speak to for almost 30years and I did personal
development and I did a ton offorgiveness exercises and I

(41:32):
remember I told Marcel and Itold myself that I had forgiven
and that I wasn't I wasn'tholding any grudges and I was
perfectly fine and I wasn'tangry and I wasn't doing um I it
wasn't affecting me.
So the separation with myparents between me and my
parents wasn't affecting me atall.
I was perfectly fine I didn'tmiss them everything was great

(41:53):
and this is what I told myselfand I believed this with all of
my heart and soul um to theextent that when um my brother
got married there were severalevents that I went to and my
parents were there and I justdidn't talk to them I didn't
look at them I didn't see them Ididn't you know they stayed on
their end of the room I stayedin my end of the room and you

(42:14):
know I told myself hey this isgreat we're perfectly fine look
I'm good I'm not affected bythis at all and uh recently over
the last couple of years I'vecome back into relationship with
my parents and we went throughum a process where and not
everyone has the opportunitymaybe you know you may be

(42:36):
holding a grievance with someonewho has passed away or someone
that you're not gonna have anopportunity to have relationship
with in the future but um therewas uh in my case I did I came
into forgiveness with my parentsand it wasn't even really a
choice I did it because mynephew was born and I just
didn't want to be in a roomwhere my nephew was and my

(43:01):
parents were and that that hewould have any negative energy.
So I remember thinking to myselfmy brother asked me and Marcel
helped you know was uh supportedme and I thought you know I want
to have a cordial relationship Ithink that that is much
healthier than just ignoringeach other and finding my

(43:23):
brother my sister in law tryingto figure out how to have
everybody in a room and we can'tget along or we can't you know
it's uncomfortable for everyone.
So I took it upon myself nowmind you and I and I want the
listeners to who are listeningto this to understand that it
was born out of an act of lovethis this exercise in

(43:46):
forgiveness and I didn't realizeit at the time I realize it now
but because I wanted my nephewto be in an environment where
there was love in the room forhim and that he wasn't
experiencing negativity from usbecause we're not speaking so I

(44:06):
thought you know what I can bein a room I'm a powerful person.
I've been through so much in mylife I can be in a room and I
can say hello how are you how'syour day and and be cordial with
my parents I'm a smart powerfulyou know intelligent loving
person I can do this and Ichallenged myself because I

(44:27):
wanted to create thisenvironment it was a gift that I
was giving to my nephew okay soI told my brother to give my
phone number to my father and hecould call me and we would we
would do this.
So um it wasn't even a it wasn'tan act of forgiveness at the

(44:47):
time I didn't think I thought itwas a loving um gift for my
nephew to be able to have all ofhis loved ones in a room and not
have negativity.
Does that make sense?
Yes so that's where it startedand how funny is it I look back
now and I think this loving umthis act of love that I was

(45:12):
giving to my nephew and mysister-in-law because her mother
had passed away and I wanted tocreate this so it was an act of
love that created forgivenessand now two years later I look
back and I think of all of theamazing times that we've had the

(45:37):
family vacations the dinners thelaughter the joy everything that
I'm benefiting from that I nevereven imagined I couldn't even
wrap my mind around what itwould look like two years later
and I gave this gift not just tomy nephew but I gave this gift
to myself I gave this lovinggift to myself of forgiveness.

(46:03):
You let all the grievances go Ilet all the grievances go.

SPEAKER_04 (46:06):
And I I think if you I don't want to say mechanically
or intuitively really understandhow the mind works then once you
understand it it's easier toaccomplish because me personally
I didn't I wanted to know howthe mind really really works.
I read a book many years agocalled Think and Grow Rich and

(46:28):
it said thoughts are things andwhatever you hold in your mind
whatever you think about youbring about all those concepts
and that was more or less how toyou know obtain success in the
world usually of a materialfashion but it also obtains to
in this case forgiveness youhold forgiveness in your mind
long enough you start seeingforgiveness you start being

(46:49):
forgiveness.
And uh so real quick I one ofthe other reasons too was um
when I was a kid I was molestedand I and I tried to kill myself
I tried to set my house on fire.
Never told anybody that myfamily knows they can't Marcel
where is it?

(47:09):
I I just I didn't tell anybodyand so they found I I had lit a
mattress on fire on the firstbunk of a bike bed and a couple
years passed and I I jumped infront of a car and tried to kill
myself because of the pain ofthat abuse.

SPEAKER_03 (47:24):
Everybody thought the guy swerved and hit me no I
jumped in front of it I've nevertold that I was four years old
because the pain was so bad Iwas just a kid I knew something
happened to me I shouldn't haveso I figured I live for a
reason.

SPEAKER_04 (47:37):
And I've had nine other brushes with death and I
thought I am here for a reason Ithought okay what have I learned
in this life?
And it's the one thing that I'mlearning is forgiveness of
everyone and everything.
I am not going to hold anythingin my mind anymore of negativity
or judgment on what goes on inthis world because this world

(47:58):
are there are hellish thingsthat are done from unloving
thoughts of separated minds whofeel they're separated.
Okay so that's why I say whenyou forgive everyone for
everything what are youforgiving who are you forgiving
you're forgiving the unlovingthoughts from every mind that
believes itself to be separatedin every person.

(48:21):
And from that everything thatspills out of those unloving
thoughts is everything.
So I forgive everyone foreverything.
And what it does you're notholding in your mind any
grievance any judgment any uhnegativity and you're keeping
your mind whole perfect andcomplete and you've chosen the

(48:42):
mind of the spirit at thatpoint.
I don't want to give away theres Okay go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 (48:46):
And and it's important also to realize that
um sometimes um you don't justforgive one time you forgive
over and over and overforgiveness is a gift uh that
just keeps on giving um to withwith the story with um with my
family um recently my mother didsomething that irritated me I

(49:08):
can not even tell you I'm Ididn't speak to my parents for
two months yeah because I was umcompartmentalizing people I had
to reach into my bag of tricksand forgive again I was Marcel
saw me he's my anger wentthrough the roof I think he told

(49:32):
me that my head spun aroundthree times and pea soup popped
out of my you know came flowingout of my mouth I looked like
the exorcist I literally lost mymind I was so angry um and I
held it for a little bit andit's very easy to realize that
that I had a visceral reactionback to you know when I was a

(49:55):
kid I mean I thought well Ican't do this I've already
forgiven I'm not gonna go thereand you know what I did I did
not go there which tells me thatI truly forgave but I was angry
at what happened now and um Iended up having to do an
exercise I actually wrote aletter I I put what I was angry
about down in in a letter andthat was where I started my

(50:18):
forgiveness of this situationthat happened and I felt so much
weight come off my shoulderswhen when I was able to
verbalize what I was upset aboutand what it was that was
irritating me and um and what Iwas afraid of and what I felt
what what was coming up.
So I wrote it and I gave it toMarcel and I said read this and
I think that's where I I startedto forgive and and move through

(50:41):
it.

SPEAKER_04 (50:41):
And we just saw them recently and we had a wonderful
I said okay we need to go downthere and see them and and I
forgave again you know somethingthat happened currently you have
to continually forgive it's aforever thing while you're a
human it's just is continualforgiveness.

SPEAKER_05 (50:57):
Yeah so we're not we're not saying that you're
gonna do um and we're gonna talkabout the forgiveness experiment
but that you're gonna forgiveand that it's just gonna
disappear from your life andyou're just gonna be you know
Pollyanna and everything isgoing to be beautiful and roses
and sunshine.
But I'll tell you what once youlearn how to forgive and you

(51:17):
know what it looks like and youexperience the joys that
forgiveness brings the peaceactually better said the peace
that forgiveness brings you areprobably going to be more apt to
do it again and look you knowand and and look for it and
it'll come easier.
Forgiveness will come easier andyou will recognize what it feels

(51:42):
like to forgive.
It doesn't mean that you haveforgotten it means that you have
set yourself free from thechains that are holding you to
that pain.

SPEAKER_04 (51:51):
Exactly and and for me the truth of the matter is
it's uncover something that'sinside of all of us there's
something called truth and it'sin us and it's always calling
out to us with a very subtlevoice and it's truth and
happiness and eternity and we'reeternal beings.

SPEAKER_05 (52:09):
And so Marcel what was that process I'm curious the
the forgiveness that that youexperienced after I mean that
was an incredibly profoundactually I don't think you've
even ever told you told me youhad um that your leg was broken
but you didn't tell me a car hitme.

SPEAKER_04 (52:28):
Yeah you told me a car hit you but you've never
this is the first time that thereason I've ever never told
because it's something I harbordeep down inside myself because
it was is this the first timeyou've said it out loud ever in
my entire life.

SPEAKER_03 (52:41):
Wow so that's powerful it's because of this
experiment.

unknown (52:46):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (52:46):
I'm telling you so I realize that so you're going
through forgiveness of this nowdoing this experiment.

SPEAKER_04 (52:53):
Exactly all this stuff that's been in in me that
I I knew I wanted out.
I just wanted truth and and thisstuff covers up the truth of who
we are.
It's these human experiencesthat we hold on to that block
the truth and love and lightthat's in us and who we really
are.

SPEAKER_05 (53:13):
So so just to reiterate you just because
you're doing this experimentright now you are experiencing
the forgiveness of what happenedto you as a child.

SPEAKER_04 (53:28):
So what I wanted to do because I believe this I'm
telling you is the truth we arespirits and we have a mind and
that mind can choose to be thespirit or be the body and it's
hard not to choose to be thebody when you're a human right
to identify and get lost so souh our spirit our mind gets lost

(53:50):
in the body but our real selvesour eternal selves not the split
part of our mind is still thereperfect whole and complete and
so so these acts that we do andwe're shameful of and we're and
we're we we that's blocking thespirit so okay so what I'd like

(54:13):
to do is because we're actuallythis podcast is going a little
long because there's so muchit's so powerful I'd like to
take a break because I want totalk about the the forgiveness
experiment and I want to be ableto cut that you know have that
on the other side of the break.

SPEAKER_05 (54:26):
So um we're gonna take a quick one we're gonna
come back and we're gonna talkabout the forgiveness
experiment.

SPEAKER_02 (54:34):
Thanks for listening.
If you're enjoying this episodeand you'd like to help support
the podcast please subscribe andtell your friends.
For more tips and ways to digdeep and get real sign up for
our newsletter, read blogs andshop or merch at
FightTheGoodfightclub.com We aregoing to talk about something
really something we're veryexcited about the forgiveness

(54:56):
experiment.

SPEAKER_05 (54:58):
Marcel, what is the forgiveness experiment?

SPEAKER_04 (55:01):
So back on March 27th I was of course of course
going through the Course inmiracles and it was um this idea
came to me of forgiveness beinguh the key to happiness
happiness equals peace of mindto have peace of mind you gotta
forgive all the grievances.

(55:21):
So then I I how the mind workswhatever's in your mind you're
going to attract so if you holdI figured if I held forgiveness
in my mind long enough forgivingthoughts long enough that that
would fill my mind and just pushall grievances out even ones I

(55:42):
felt I could never let go and soI thought alright I'm gonna I'm
gonna write sixty times a dayI'm gonna write it on a piece of
paper.
I forgive everyone foreverything.

SPEAKER_03 (55:57):
And when a thought came to me I just felt such
relief because I thought alrightit's in my mind.

SPEAKER_04 (56:06):
I have to think it first so now that thought's in
my mind and remember what am Iforgiving who am I forgiving
myself and everyone else forevery unloving thought that that
anyone's ever thought forgivingthat and I'm for everything is
every action that was born outof those unloving thoughts that
caused people's bodies to causeharm to other bodies and commit

(56:27):
crimes or murder or whatever.
I'm forgiving that so I'mforgiving everyone every
unloving thought for everythingevery action that resulted in
pain and suffering.
So I'm forgiving the thoughtsthat lead to pain and suffering.
So I thought okay I'm gonnaconduct an experiment on myself
on my own mind to see how itwill work out.
So I started writing 30 times inthe morning first thing I got up

(56:50):
I think well that day it was inthe afternoon so I read it.

SPEAKER_05 (56:52):
Did you set intentions first?

SPEAKER_04 (56:53):
Like did you think about what you were going to do
what's your process when youthought was this is what I've
learned all these years is thatour mind operates under
universal laws.
That whatever we hold in ourmind we become and I thought if
forgiveness truly is the key toletting grievances go and I'm

(57:15):
having a hard time of lettingsome go, then I'll just use my
mind for what it was designed todo or what it does.
So I thought okay in order thereason you're not supposed to
judge because a judgment istypically negative right you
have it in your mind so thatnegativity is in your mind I
thought okay I'm gonna hold thethought of forgiveness.
So thinking forgiveness and thenwriting it is channeling it

(57:38):
through your body it's cleansingyour body.
So it creates an integrity rightit's really powerful because
what you're thinking doingfeeling is all in alignment and
it makes it powerful I I imaginean infinite loop of cleansing
where I think it that's yourthat's the first cause is my
thought forgiveness I forgiveeveryone for everything.

(57:58):
Then I write it now it's in thenow it's in this world is
through my body and on a pieceof paper.
Now my eyes are picking it upand putting it back it's like an
infinite loop from my thoughtthrough my body through my hand
on paper and from the paper backinto my eyes back into my mind.
And I thought that's how I'mgonna have this thought in my

(58:19):
mind.
So I'd I wrote it uh thirtytimes it was in that day and
that night I wrote it 30 timesthat was March 27th.
Why thirty times?
Um 30 times because a habittakes 30 days and it just
figured 30 times it was just arandom number.
Okay.
But it was um I just figured 30.
So uh so I actually I got acollege rule notebook and it had

(58:41):
30 lines.
So but it happened to be 30lines.
So anyway so that 60 times a daytimes 30 days is 1800 times.
So you start your day withforgiveness and you end your day
with forgiveness.
That's it.
And what I'm real so I don'twant to so the experiment for 30
days.
I don't want to tell people whatmy results are.

(59:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (59:04):
But you know so well I mean it's pretty powerful
you're in the midst of it rightnow and I've been recording some
of the some of the Well lookwhat just happened.

SPEAKER_04 (59:14):
Look what just happened.
The cause is a thought and theeffect is is what I I what am I
experiencing which is peace.
So forgiveness brings peacewhich brings happiness so my
idea was I don't want a amolecule of hatred or grievance

(59:34):
in my mind for as long as I liveand I'm gonna do what it takes
and I and I figure thisexperiment if the law of mind is
is universal and if I the mindis like waiting for instructions
okay all right what's theinstructions here to hate okay
we'll hate oh to be scared ohwe'll be scared oh to love we'll
love my function is forgivenessthat's actually from a Course in

(59:58):
miracles my own my One functionis forgiveness.
And I thought, okay, why isthat?
And I thought, okay,forgiveness.
I'm gonna forgive, forgive,forgive.
I'm gonna whatever you want tocall.
I'm brainwashing myself.
I'm feeling my mind.
I'm feeling my body.
I'm feeling my eyes.
I'm feeling everything.
So what I find myself now, I'llgive one spoiler really whatever

(01:00:19):
was happening after two weeks.
I find myself thinking, Whatreally happened?
Nothing's happened to me.
Stuff's happened in my body.
I am perfect, whole, andcomplete.
I'm a powerful, eternal spirit.
That's who and what I am.
And this it's like the truth iscoming true in me.
And it's like, I don't care whatelse happens to this body and

(01:00:42):
this life.
The one thing I will do is neverhold a negative thought again.
All I'm gonna do is forgive.
I see something on TV.
Somebody did something.
I forgive them.
Forgive the unloving thoughtsout of their loving minds and
let it go.
I don't want to hold it.
And I'm doing my part to bringpeace, love, and happiness into
this physical world.
And it's this sounds like Idon't care if no one else does

(01:01:04):
it.
I just I know I'm doing my partto bring peace to cleanse my
mind so I don't add more to theproblem of violence, of hatred.
So I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:15):
So the negativity can can happen because we we
don't live on an island, right?
We are who we are.
Um and we're humans on a planetwhere terrible things happen,
but we um we don't hold it.
We don't hold on to it, we don'tmake it a part of our being.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:33):
No, that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is well thatokay, that is that's a form of
what I'm saying.
That is a form of what I'msaying, okay?
But what I really recognize is Iforgive the origin, the cause of
whatever happened there, whichwas an unloving thought, out of
a separated, split mind thatthought it was cut off from its

(01:01:54):
eternal source.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:58):
Okay, I wanted to put some space in there so we
can cut that out.
Okay.
So what I was saying was thatyou are saying that thoughts can
happen, things can happen thatare negative, that cause a
negative feeling, but we don'thold on to it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:17):
Exactly.
You don't hold on to thegrievance.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:20):
Right.
It just fl it just moves throughyou.
So you're not sitting with it.
What you are sitting with ispeace, joy, and love.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:27):
You got it.
Okay.
And it's what you kind ofobserve it and then you forgive
it, right?
You don't let yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So you're forgiving the unlovingthoughts that led, which was a
cause, you're forgiving thatcause that led to that effect of
the horrible things we see inthis world.
Because I was troubled by theviolence.

(01:02:48):
I mean, it just really hit mehard.
There's someone I knew committedsuicide, another lady had
passed, but and I was looking,and then all these shootings and
all this hatred and violence,and I think, where is it all
coming from?
It's coming from minds that arefearful, angry, they're unloving
thoughts, to put it in one word,coming from a mind that thinks

(01:03:10):
it's alone and separate, whenreally there is another part in
those minds that's foreverspiritual and loving.
And so I'm by not, to yourpoint, not letting in on my
mind, by forgiving thosethoughts, I'm forgiving, but I'm
also keeping my mind purebecause I am spirit.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:30):
I love that.
So, with the forgivenessexperiment, what we're hoping,
what we're looking to do, it'sjust this it's a forgiveness
experiment.
What would happen if there wasone person, two people, three,
ten, twenty, a million, twomillion, five million?
What would happen if there wasan enormous amount of cumulative

(01:03:52):
energy of healing andforgiveness put out at the same
time?
Could we possibly create aparadigm shift in this world?
Could we create a movement?
Could we change this world?
Could we create a world that ismore focused on peace and love?

(01:04:15):
Our purpose as humans on thisearth, if it was peace and love,
what would happen?

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:20):
You know, and and I that's exactly the thought that
happened to me.
And of course, you know, youhave eight billion people now,
and I got given interestingstatistic.
I I found this uh statistic, Iguess it's anthropologists,
archaeologists, whatever.
They figure since the history ofmankind, there have been a
hundred and eight billion humanbeings have come and gone on

(01:04:43):
this planet, and there are eightbillion left, give or take.
So I thought, okay, I'm gonnaforgive everyone for everything.
I'm a think it, write it, say itat least eighteen hundred times
in thirty days.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:56):
And I thought eighteen hundred times in thirty
days.
You are writing for you arewriting, feeling, seeing.
I'm at nine thirty.
Feeling forgiveness, thinkingit, feeling it, writing it,
projecting it, seeing it, you'vegot it, living it, eating it,
sleeping it, eighteen hundredtimes in thirty days.

(01:05:16):
Something has to change.
Well, I now imagine multiplepeople around the world doing
that.
That's powerful, Marcel.
Well, I Are you making thingshappen?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:27):
Well, I making good things happen.
And I know what I the effects ofthis these forgiving thoughts
are.
And I did some math.
I took eight billion people inthe world, and I thought, how
many people would it take if ifthis was written eight how many
times how many people would ittake to write eighteen hundred

(01:05:48):
times to forgive everybody onthe planet?
And it came out to about fourand a half million uh people
writing this.
And then from that, the ideawould be every time it's
written, someone on the planetgets a for g they're forgiven
for everything.
Everyone is forgiven foreverything.

(01:06:09):
And so we have rules on thisplanet, bodies hurt other
bodies, property or whatever, wehave rules, people go to jail,
whatever.
But everyone has a spirit inthem that's eternal, perfect,
whole, and complete.
And that's what we're trying touncover and address.
And then that way, I just wantedto see what it would do for me.
And then I thought, wouldn't itbe cool if everybody got said to

(01:06:31):
them, I forgive you foreverything?
No judgment.
I just forgive you because Ilove you.
You're my brother, you're mysister.
You know, I think that's reallyif we had it.
Sounds Pollyannish, but there'sso much, how do you where does
it stop?

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:46):
Seriously, where does where does hatred, anger,
and violence stop?
It stops with peoplepromulgating these thoughts.
Yeah.
That turn into into actions.
And I thought, well, you knowwhat?
If I go to my gram the only one,then so be it.
I I I just know what it's doingfor me.
Yeah.
And I I don't want to say someof the other things because it I
want people to see their ownresults.

(01:07:07):
But something just came out.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:08):
I just something came out, but I mean, this is
incredibly I mean, I know thatI've seen uh a shift.
I've seen things happening withyou that are really interesting.
I'm actually um I'm experiencingfrom this side of it, I'm doing
it as well, but um what I'mexperiencing just because we're

(01:07:29):
we're talking about you at themoment, um there's definitely a
a shift in the energy with uswhen we like months back, if we
were talking about the show orsomething, we'd be bickering
about this or bickering aboutthat.
We're moving through things muchquicker.
And um when I say things, we itif there is an opportunity for

(01:07:54):
us to disagree about something.
Now you have to understand,Marcel and I are both really um
uh how do I say strongpersonalities?
You know, we you know, we we wework, we act at at a high level,
yeah.
We we we are we're very um wehave our opinions, we're

(01:08:16):
opinionated people, we'reintelligent people, we are we
have strong characters.
I love that about us, you know,and honestly, it takes two
strong charactered people todeal with each other.
So we are it's not an accidentthat we're taking.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:33):
To sum up what you said, we both have given up the
fight to be right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:38):
Thank you.
That's absolutely brilliant.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:41):
I'd rather be happy than right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:42):
We are right fighting less, for sure.
We are more focused on being onunderstanding each other and
loving each other than we are onbeing right.
Yeah, I love that about umwhat's what's happening.
And honestly, if you are gonnabe in a relationship where you
love each other, what would yourather be doing?

(01:09:03):
Right fighting or or being happyand loving each other, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:08):
Exactly.
So so maybe that is alreadybeing a byproduct of this
forgiveness experiment.
I'm only halfway through, sothis morning actually it was 930
times, which 1800, 900 would bethe halfway point, and then so
it's 30 days, so today isactually the sixteenth day.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:25):
There's definitely a more of a peacefulness about you
that I'm experiencing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:29):
I I the idea is to use the law of the eternal mind,
that if you cleanse your mind ofall grievances, all that's left
in there is pure love.
Because it it's the love andtruth that we are, the spirit
that we are, the mind of thespirit, it is covered up with
grievances that came from a mindthat felt itself to be separated
in a body.

(01:09:49):
And if you really think aboutit, bodies are limited anyway.
We want to be in tune with theeternal mind, the infinite mind.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:56):
Wonderful.
So that's the forgivenessexperiment, and uh our movement
is starting uh World ForgivenessDay is July 7th.
So we would love to have wewould love to be in full, full
forgiveness mode with as many aswe can to join us.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:21):
I'm halfway through 16th day, but I can see myself
doing this rest of my lifebecause I already know what's
happening.

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:28):
Amazing.
So to learn more about Fight theGood Fight Club and the
forgiveness experiment, visitFight the Good Fight Club.com.
And um, we're also launching ourum merchandise store where the

(01:10:48):
journal is.
So we have a journal with tipsthat help move people along.
Um, there's a whole bunch ofreally cool things that we're
doing to support uh others intheir practice of the
forgiveness experiment.
And we invite people to to joinus.

(01:11:11):
Um what could be better thanwaking up in the morning with
love and joy and forgiveness andending the day with love and joy
and forgiveness and everythingthat comes with that?
I can't think of anything, canyou?

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:28):
No.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:29):
Well, maybe spending time with Marcel.
But you can't do that.
I can't.
So that's our episode for today.
Marcel, do you have anythingelse that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:40):
I think I think just before I quote die, this will be
the last thing that I say.
I forgive everyone foreverything.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:51):
Wow.
Okay.
Is that your is that your dyingbread word?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:55):
I can tell you the effects of forgiveness when you
really it's just workingmiracles in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:04):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:05):
And healing my mind, which is what I want.
I don't want a molecule ofanger, hatred, anything in me.
Not a molecule in my mind.
This is how I found for me theexperiment is cleansing it out.
That could be an ominous signright there.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:21):
Yeah, there's there's a thunderstorm.
So we're gonna end with is thatGod cheering us on?
Maybe that's the universecheering us on, a big
thunderclap.
I love it.
Let's never done that a wholetime.
Until next time, everybody.
Keep fighting the good fight.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:36):
Until if you enjoy our podcast, we invite you to
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