January 15, 2024 • 48 mins
Today I enjoy a conversation with Tommy and Brenda Geary who run Tommy G Coaching and The Durable Dad Podcast. We discuss how to communicate in a clear way in order to stay close and connected in the face of life challenges and even working together.
To find more of Tommy and Brenda's work check out
https://www.tommygcoaching.com/
and Follow them on instagram at
https://www.instagram.com/tommygcoaching
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Episode number 68.
Hello and welcome to theFighting for Connection podcast.
I'm Brett Nicola, a husband,father and fun lover.
Listen in as I share stories,tips and inspiration that will
(00:23):
move you toward the connectionthat you want in your
relationship.
Alright, welcome back to theFighting for Connection podcast.
Today I have on with me anotherfellow LC, essar, life coach,
school coach and his wife Brenda.
(00:44):
Welcome on to the podcast.
Thank you, brett.
What's up, brett?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks for having us and it's Tommy.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So Tommy and Brenda, Gary, what's that?
Gary Like gear.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Like the gear in the car yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I love it.
So Tommy and I had aconversation a couple weeks back
now and we talked about allkinds of amazing things that
we're going to continue to talkabout today.
At the end he's like, hey, whatdo you think about Brenda
coming on?
And I was like, hey, brendacoming on, that'd be amazing.
And I think that that wassomething that I always am a fan
(01:23):
of.
I'm always pushing for couplesto come on to this podcast and
talk about all things couples,because, like I was sharing with
you guys before we startedrecording, I think there's still
some taboos aroundrelationships, around marriage,
especially.
So if we can talk about, like,all the amazing, you know,
(01:43):
things that our spouse is doingfor us, but it seems difficult
to talk about some of thechallenges that come up within
relationships and it still seemslike we're pretty guarded about
that.
But one of the things that I amreally passionate about on this
podcast, and something thatI've done myself, is to
highlight even, you know,marriage.
(02:04):
Therapist experienceschallenges in relationships and
I think everybody experienceschallenges in relationships, and
the more we can kind of takethe cover off of those things
and talk about them, I think,the more we can support each
other in relationships and it'sreally me just championing,
championing the relationship,yeah, yeah and really want
(02:29):
people to figure out how tonavigate through these
challenges and stay together.
So I love that you guys arewilling to come on and do this.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I didn't know it was Tommy's idea.
So glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I guess I don't even know either.
I feel like it was somethingright at the end where we were
talking about working togetherand I think we were just talking
about.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I don't know if you knew that Brenda and I owned the
business together and we kindof got into talking about what
that's been like in ourrelationship.
And Tommy G Coaching theDurable Dad podcast is our
second business that we've runtogether.
And yeah, just when you talkabout challenges and I think
(03:18):
those are, there's been a lot ofchallenges in our life,
business, wise, personal liesand I don't know.
So I guess sometimes we don'teven know them as challenges.
They're just like opportunitiesand yeah, and I think it's
brought us closer together andwe have a pretty tight
relationship and you know we setit before recording.
(03:39):
It's not happily ever after.
We're not happy all the timeand we do a good job, I think,
of repairing those times whenthere is a dispute, or yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
That's what it's all about.
I totally agree that.
You know, the challenges aren'tthe things that we're trying to
avoid in the relationship.
We're trying to get really goodat repairing, and the more
efficient and skilled we can getat repairing our relationship,
the longer it's going to lastand the closer it's going to be.
So I love that yeah, I knowyeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I mean just to dive right in from me.
I don't think I knew any ofthat.
Like well, we've been married13 years.
I probably figured that out,like eight years ago that you
got to work on repair and thatwhen there isn't, that when
there is fight, when there isconflict, that to repair easily,
(04:35):
you got to stick around for theconversation and I think for me
that was hard.
I think I would shut down, Iwould be silent and yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
With drawers you're not, I'm the same way.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, I think so many dudes are, and I think it's
because, like you know, brendawould be like what are you
thinking?
And I don't know what I'mthinking right now, and we
actually aren't aware of some ofthose subconscious thoughts,
not aware of our emotions, andthen we just shut down.
And even the dudes that I workwith sometimes it takes a while
(05:12):
to be able, like we'll coach andwe'll understand what thoughts
are going on in the middle of anargument and what emotions are
happening, but then to be ableto communicate those and say,
well, I'm whatever the emotionis, that that's like the next
level, I think.
So maybe I was aware that I hadto start talking eight years or
(05:35):
seven years ago, whatever, andthen it took me a year to
actually talk.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, to find the language.
Yeah, yeah, I think I forgotthat you used to shut down, and
I mean you do every now and then.
But I think one of the biggestlearnings for me like I just was
never good about letting thingsgo unsaid, like if something
was off, we needed to talk aboutit in my book.
(06:02):
But what I needed to learn wasthat, well, coaching actually
taught me this that I had totake the blame out of it.
And like I used to say thingslike when you do this, I feel,
or when you say that it makes mefeel da-da-da, and it was a lot
(06:25):
of pointing fingers.
And then coaching taught methat, oh, I'm actually creating
my own feelings, and so now we Imean if someone heard us argue,
they would laugh, but it's verymuch like deep breaths and like
when you say that I'm tellingmyself that da-da-da-da-da-da-da
(06:47):
, and it's like we take theownership of how we feel and
that helps a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I think it's helping them, helping our spouse, see
what's happening within us inthose moments.
And yeah, it's not blaming them, but I love how that is.
And it's funny, like I thinkpeople you're right they kind of
be like, wow, that sounds likescripted or it doesn't sound
real.
But what often I tell people islike, hey, if we script
(07:14):
something and we have betterresults and we have, you know,
higher levels of repair andbetter connection and we just
we're moving out of, like oursubconscious emotional brain and
into more like a regulated anda conscious brain, I think
that's an amazing skill, anamazing thing to do.
(07:35):
So I, with my clients, and I wassaying, okay, how are we going
to show up in conflict?
And we do kind of the samethings.
It's like, okay, this is whatwe're gonna say and this is how
we're gonna say it.
And then they go home and do itand they come back and they say
it sounds scripted, it sounds,you know, whatever.
And what I find is that themore you do it, it probably
(07:57):
doesn't even feel like that foryou guys.
Now.
It just is like the way thatyou guys manage conflict.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, it's still uncomfortable sometimes and I
had a course that I ran calledStop Losing your Temper and
there was actually like Iactually gave scripts.
I'm feeling frustrated becauseI'm telling myself that you
don't appreciate all the workthat I'm doing, instead of being
(08:24):
like you don't appreciate thework I'm doing.
I'm feeling angry because I'mtelling myself this like Brenda
was saying it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, and it does.
It sounds scripted, butactually after, like you said,
brett, after you do it, itdoesn't.
Even.
Because I think it took a longtime, after learning about
coaching and the thinking cycleand cognitive behavioral therapy
to for it to dawn on me like Igenuinely am creating my
(08:53):
emotions.
He genuinely is not creatingthis for me, and so then, when
that finally sunk in thatrealization, it made our
conflicts, I think, a lot.
I think repair comes faster,yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And it's.
And when you said that and yousaid like, it finally sunk in, I
almost think that it finallyseparated.
Because when we're in a supertight relationship, you know you
talk about codependency andrelationships like oh, if my
wife's happy, then I'm happy, ifshe's angry, then I'm upset.
(09:31):
I'm upset and being able like Ido, like there is an energetic
connection in your house andthat is there.
But the power is to be able toseparate your partner's energy
from your energy and that's Ithink that's what Brenda's
(09:52):
saying like owning your emotions, that emotional maturity, to be
like these are my emotions, I'mgonna hold them.
If I'm choosing to be, I'mchoosing to be this way, it's
not the other person's fault.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
And I think that separation doesn't lead us to
living in silos, like I thinkyou know that's what a lot of
people are like well, if I'mresponsible for my emotions and
they don't have any impact onthem, then we're somehow gonna
like just be these independentpeople living in the same house.
But what I find is like when youtake on that responsibility of
(10:26):
your own emotions and you findlanguage for what's actually
happening inside which I thinkis kind of what you're talking
about, brenda like all of asudden you believe the language
that you were communicating.
It was like I am creating theseemotions and now you can
communicate that to Tommy andwhat that does is it helps him
see what's happening for you,but it also puts you in a
(10:48):
position where now you're notdependent on him taking care of
you, so now you can actually goand take care of him.
And I think, like that I talkabout it all the time on the
podcast that that is the magicof relationships is not we don't
self-regulate so that we don'tneed each other, but we
self-regulate so that we can bethere for each other.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And yeah, a visual that I get sometimes when cause
a lot of guys struggle with thatand feel like, well, I'm not
gonna be.
Well, just the other day, ourdaughter now was just having a
rough morning.
You were like whole hummingaround the house and it's just
like borderline, like okay, likeyou need to have a little you
(11:34):
know whatever.
So we were talking about thatand I think that's what guys
interpreted as is like if mywife is sad, I'm not gonna be
thrilled, but I think of it aslike if a friend, if a good
friend, lost their parent, youaren't gonna be a sobbing mess,
like you will be able toempathize with them better when
(11:57):
you're grounded and holdingspace for them, rather than like
a disaster in there, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I know exactly what you're saying.
There.
We're like if someone isneeding, you know, some solace
or some care, you need to stayin a place where you're able to
care for them.
You can't be like competing forcare with them, like oh, I
missed your mom so much.
She like that's not actuallyhelpful where you're needing
them to kind of console and carefor you and to be able to kind
(12:33):
of stay in that spot of holdingspace for their emotions and
being not cold and callous butresponsive to it, and it's a
skill.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah yeah, it's very, I don't know.
Just, I'm picturing now justlike some kind of like Tai Chi
ninja, being able to take onsomeone else's energy and take
(13:06):
that on and not hold it, justlike let it be there and be able
to, yeah, hold it for them,take it, and then like, yeah, I
don't know, show up as yourselfin that storm.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
It's so good, because a lot of couples struggle with
this.
Like if I'm having a good day atwork, I get home and my wife's
having a bad day, then like,especially in the past, it was
like all right, the whole ship'sgoing down together, right,
we're all gonna have just aterrible evening and I'm gonna
be upset with her because she'shaving a bad day and she should
have been in a good mood,because I was in a good mood and
(13:41):
why she taken my mood down andso I'm kind of putting the blame
on her.
And it was like weird To be ableto come home, be in a good mood
, see that your wife is not in agood mood, and to be able to
just like, totally be there forit, recognize like we all have
moods and we all have the daysthat aren't going well, and just
(14:04):
to, yeah, like we're talkingabout, hold space for it, allow
it to be there, take it on,don't just like that's your
problem, but to be like, oh,yeah, I can see that you're
having a tough day and how can Isupport it?
Maybe you can even jump in andsupport in the ways that you
know are supportive, but youdon't need to match that energy
and then put the blame on themfor taking it, and the thing
(14:27):
with dudes.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So the example you're saying is you're in a good mood
, you're feeling like you had aproductive day.
You show up.
Your wife didn't have that samekind of experience.
She's frustrated or stressed,like dudes want to fix that
emotion really quickly and theywant to tell her how it's okay
(14:50):
and how can I help, like let'sget this thing done right away
and tell her all the reasonsthat she should be feeling good
and that also isn't helpful,right, so we're not taking on
her sadness and stress, but nowwe're trying to change the other
person.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, so we feel better.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
That's what's underneath.
That.
That's the next part of that.
Right, we think that, oh, we'rebeing helpful, we're being nice
, because we're trying to makeyou feel better.
But the reason that we're doingthat is because we want to feel
better and to kind of go back.
What I think happens at thatfirst level you walk in the door
(15:33):
and I'm not saying you, anydude walks in the door and his
wife's not having a greatexperience.
The reason we want to fix, Ithink, is because we're not
comfortable with whateveremotion she's having, 100%.
So, if and that's when it comesto doing the work yourself,
(15:53):
yeah, and I think it's with kidstoo if your kid's flipping out
and having a tantrum and yourpattern is to yell at them and
shut them down and tell them tocalm down, it's because you're
not comfortable with your ownanger and you haven't managed
your own anger.
But when you do, then you areable to create more calm and
(16:13):
more patience when other peopleare dysregulated and other
people are triggered or whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, I think it goes .
I think girls do it too.
I mean, I think just two daysago you were buying tickets for
going on a family trip and youbought tickets plane tickets for
the wrong day.
And he realized it and was likefirst words and in right, I
(16:43):
almost said we'll just call themand I like had suggestions on
the tip of my tongue ready tofix, and then I realized what I
was about to do.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And you were just like yeah.
And you were just like, oh,bummer, dang it.
I can't believe you did thatLike that sucks.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I didn't say I can't believe you did that.
What an idiot.
No, I didn't say that.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
It wasn't a can't believe.
You did that, idiot, I thinkeverybody.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I think everyone wants to fix it's the advice
trap when people aren't reallythere.
Yeah, advice.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So yeah, no, I think that's good and this is how this
conversation is gonna go.
We could just talk all day, butI do think we kind of glossed
over who you guys are and whatyou guys are all about.
So I wanna kind of go back tojust quickly like what your
guys' story is as a couple andkind of bring me through.
(17:40):
You said a couple of businessesand now we have the durable
dads and the work that you'redoing there.
That's your podcast.
I wanna hear kind of all aboutthat.
And Brenda, you're involvedwith Tommy's business, your
guys' business together.
So I'd love to just hear yourguys' story in as concise of a
(18:01):
way as you possibly can asconcise of a way yeah, I think
Speaker 2 (18:04):
well, I think that our relationship could probably
be summed up by, I don't want tosay taking risks, but like
doing different things.
I mean, like I said, I don'twant to talk in too many
(18:24):
generalities, but basicallyBrenda's from Ohio, I'm from
Chicago.
We met in Colorado at both ofour times in our life where we
just weren't exactly sure whatthe rest of our career was going
to be, and when we found eachother.
I think that we try I don'tknow.
(18:46):
We tried a lot of things outand kind of grew together.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yeah, we lived in Colorado for 15 years before we
moved.
Well, that's a challenge we canget into, if you want.
Before we moved back to Ohio,that was a long 10-year
discussion if we were going tocome back to the Midwest, be
closer to family.
But yeah, we both worked in theski industry and I started a
(19:14):
little creative agency aboutgosh eight years ago now, and
then Tommy was able to quit hiscorporate job and come onto that
and so we did work together inthat business and knew that we
wanted that it wasn't what wewanted to do forever and got
into life coaching and I gotcertified first and then, oh,
(19:36):
you're certified too.
Yeah, not through LCS, but adifferent program, but that's
how I found LCS.
And then just yeah, what do youitch in to say?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I got nothing.
In my head is like oh man,there's so many different things
and we can't tell them allright now.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
But lost over is we found out about eight years ago
that we couldn't have kidswithout surgery or intervention.
We didn't want to do IVF or anyof that stuff and knew we were
going to adopt.
But before we did that we bothquit our jobs and went to
Central America for a few monthsand yeah, I mean it out there
(20:16):
wasn't that.
My family in Ohio was like whatthe heck are you doing?
But out there people didn'thave stuff all the time.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That was a big step for us.
It was scary, it was a lot ofconversations and I wasn't sure
about stuff, you weren't sureabout stuff and you know we made
it happen and navigated thatand that was really cool.
I do think that.
Well, do you have anything else?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Well, I was just going to say a lot of couples we
found out later reallystruggled with that, with not
being able to have kids.
That wasn't a struggle for usso much.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I think the harder part for us was later choosing
to have kids because life was sowonderful and fun and easy and
we were 35 before we finallytook the leap and we lived in
this place in Colorado where ourback door was our playground,
(21:09):
just like we could strap on oursplit boards and skin up the
mountain and snowboard down andbackpacking, and our morning
routines were like an hour and ahalf long and so that was hard
to.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I think we were, I think I was probably there a
little sooner than you were, andit was just discussions about
are we really going to?
That was a challenge as much so.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I was just going to jump in that my morning routine
is an hour and a half long, butI don't picture it quite the
same as yours Trying to wrangleseven kids you know off to
school breakfast.
You have seven, we have six,seven on the way I count already
.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Wow, that's rare yeah we had three girls in a row and
we're all signs are pointing toour fourth boy in January, so
that's cool, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, I mean, our morning routines are not an hour
and a half anymore.
That's why we were laughinglike pre adopting yeah, that's
what it looked like.
And then that changes quickly.
Kids change.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That's the background I'd say.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, so how did you get into the current business
now?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, I think we.
So I left my corporate jobbecause Brenda's creative agency
was able to support our familyand we.
When I started working there,brenda was really running the
show.
She was the contact for all ofour clients and she she hadn't
(22:49):
taken a vacation in five yearsor something like that, and she
would have a week of slownessand be able to get out and enjoy
like some chill time.
But if we were planning a tripthree months out, she didn't
know if she had.
The was able to schedule herGreat.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I didn't set it up well.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, and so it was just really demanding on her.
And so there are two kind ofthings.
One was a lifestyle thing that,like I started kind of being
more of the dad parent role.
If our, if our daughter nowwould get sick, I was the one
picking her up.
I had a little more flexibilityand it worked.
And it also kind of.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I wanted to be that role.
I think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That eight and so eight at Brenda, and so that was
one of the things that wewanted a little more control of
our schedule and in the creativeworld when you're working for
clients, that's just not how itwas and then and we didn't want
to build out employees.
Anyway, the other part of itwas that we wanted to help more,
(23:55):
we wanted to serve or whatever,and the coaching had brought a
lot to both of our lives.
Brenda had a coach first, I hada coach after that and I don't
know.
We saw the power in being ableto harness, like yourself and
(24:15):
your brain and your body andbeing able to.
You know the power of that inthe world and I think and before
.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
and so I got certified as a coach out of just
personal development to help melead better at the business.
And then, tommy you, before youquit your corporate job, you
became a yoga and meditationinstructor and I think that was
kind of walking the path towardswhere he is yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, and you adopted .
Now at what point.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Before you became certified in that.
So we now five now.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So we adopted her when she was a baby, so yeah, so
yeah, she was under water, shewas maybe one.
When I went through the yogaand meditation training, I
thought about going intoleadership development in the
corporate world because I waskind of just digging the
teaching vibe and everythinglike that and and then we're, I
don't know.
We were kind of like let's doit ourselves.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
We were pumped about it.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, I can remember sitting at the coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I did too yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Loaded Joe's.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Loaded Joe's and Ava.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And you guys talk about that.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, and just sitting there and looking at the
LCS certification and I lookedat let's see other one, I see
ICP.
No, there's another trainingthat I was looking at.
But we just we were like, allright, we're doing it, it starts
in March.
And, yeah, we sat at that tableand just decided it and put the
(25:48):
credit card down and we'regoing to go with that.
So you started March of whatyear?
2020, right in the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, okay, so I was.
I was the following year then,because I started March of 2021.
Nice, nice, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Great program.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, they were, they were dialed.
It was a great program, so Iguess that's how we got here to
the drill Tommy.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
G.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Coaching Tommy G Coaching.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, so tell me about that.
You guys are working now.
That's both of your guys isfull-time gig.
Yep, how's that going?
Everyone wants to know whatit's like to work with your
spouse.
It's awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I know.
Before this I was like I knowthey want to hear, they don't
want to hear that, but it reallyis.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I think people do want to hear that, and why is it
Well?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
when working at the corporate at my previous
corporate job.
I don't think it was arevelation coming out of that
and not having to Like Tommywhen he came into the company.
He's just smart, capable,level-headed, learns quick and
it just was easy.
And I know that we got to beable to thrive in any
(27:07):
environment but it was justeasier to thrive working
together.
I think we both care about thebusiness so much.
I think that goes a long waywhen you're working with other
people, so their level ofcommitment to the business and I
mean of course we have dayswhere it's just like you want to
(27:30):
blow your head off, but butit's by far our favorite job
we've ever had.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And how do you navigate through those, Like in
those moments we talked about ita little bit.
This is kind of going fullcircle now, but on those days
where it is challenging, what doyou guys do to kind of keep
moving forward and keep workingtogether?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, I think one thing, whether it's in our
business or it's in our personallife, we will do this check-in
process with each other and oneof us is usually feeling some
resistance to it, but the otherperson will say, let's check in
and we haven't decided this.
But I don't think either one ofus has ever said no.
We just say, okay, we'll do itbecause we know it helps and
(28:18):
it's just a quick, and I'll justsay it because I think it's
awesome in any relationship andI teach it to a lot of my guys
and we did a whole podcast on it.
But you it's three parts.
You look around the room, youname three things that are in
your physical presence, kind ofopens you up so you don't have
that narrow view anymore.
And then you name three thingsthat you feel physically in your
(28:39):
body and hot, cold, the clotheson your skin and then you say
three emotions that you'refeeling.
And I think that three emotionsis cool, because that's how
emotions work they're moving,they're flexible.
It's crazy when you say I'mstressed and then you also say,
but I'm optimistic, and so we dothat one person.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
And I'll mention, not to cut you off.
I didn't know if you were goingto move on, but I think, as the
recipient listening to someone,listening to you check in
almost every time he says hisemotions, I'm a little surprised
and then I'm a little moreempathetic and it just connects
you, I think.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, that's a good point One person speaking, the
other person is receiving, beingopen to it, noticing the
judgments that they create intheir head, and it's really like
it's connecting with each other.
And then the other person doesit, so that that usually starts
the repair.
Doesn't always like make uslike leave with big hugs or
(29:47):
anything like that, but itstarts a real conversation, it
cuts through the blame andreally quickly.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
And we're going to say you're going to say two
things.
We have the check in process, Ithink, and when things are, I
mean we have disagreementsTommy's usually better at taking
risks than I'm usually likewhoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
not ready, and so we're kind oflike go head to head at certain
points and we just have to, andI think that slows us down a lot
(30:16):
actually.
But we just we kind of, if weneed to, we take a breather,
take a walk.
You know Tommy's coaching a lot, so that gives us space.
That is forced, forced spacefrom each other.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, and I mean Brenda works fast, she's smart,
and when we're creatingsomething like the podcast like
if you go and listen to theDurable Dad podcast, you hear
Tommy to get to that point, ourcreative process of the outline
and the concept and the creativefeedback and the direction,
(30:51):
brenda's like boom, that's herthing.
And I'm not that that I cancoach.
I'm a coach and I'm learninghow to be.
You know that that guy oncamera.
You talked about it on yourlast podcast, about being a
storyteller and about, like,trying to tell a concise story
and get the message across in acompelling way.
(31:13):
And Brenda can do that reallywell and it's like she's already
there but I'm not there yet andI can get frustrated, I can get
like whoa is me and that'sprobably something that slows us
down.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
We had a meeting, I think, just last week that I
have to sandwich my feedbackbetter with positive.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Sometimes we have 20 minutes so I'm like boom, boom
running through it and then Iforget it's daunting on the
receiving end and I think Ithink really what you're
highlighting there is, you know,as these dads on the other end,
or men in general, we do wantour spouse or partner to
generally be happy with us, togenerally see us in a positive
(32:01):
light, and sometimes we get alittle bit sensitive when we're
hearing the message that ourpartner isn't happy with us or
doesn't like what we're doing.
And I think oftentimes that'swhat I see a lot with wives that
I work with is theyunderestimate the power of their
messaging and the power of whatthey're sharing with their
(32:24):
husband.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Totally, and I think, well, don't you already know
that?
Like I really need to say that?
And it's like yeah, you do, Ineed to hear it, and so why
would he yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Sorry, yeah, there's.
No, there's a couple ofthoughts there.
One little quick thing there'sa comic strip that I have it
stuck in my mind.
I should go find it someday.
But it's like a husband andwife in front of their pastor
and the husband is, or the wifeis, sharing with the pastor that
you know.
He just doesn't say I love youanymore I'm not sure if he loves
me and the husband responds Itold her I loved her on our
(33:03):
wedding day and I'll let herknow when it changes.
And I love that because it'sthat idea exactly, that he knows
that he loves her, right.
But in a human relationshipwe're not always sure that the
other person cares about us, andthat's why I think we have to
get so good at reassuring eachother when conflict comes up,
(33:24):
when issues arise, that we docare about each other, we do
love each other, and if we canestablish that, then I think we
can stay on the same team, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And our brains start to trick ourselves and think
like, oh, he's got a problemwith me.
This is you know, and so itdoes and needs to be reassured.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, yeah.
And then the second thing thatthis came up.
This was a thought that came upa while back.
When you're talking about thatcheck-in process and
communicating your emotions thatare within you what Kelsey and
I just had this experience theother day it was a couple weeks
(34:03):
ago now She'll get kind of likestressed around time.
I'm kind of like time is likeabstract and get there.
When we get there and she'slike no, we're going to get
there, you know, if it's we'resupposed to be there at noon.
11.50 is 10 minutes late, youknow.
And so when she gets into thatmoment she's really good at
(34:26):
getting tasks done and usuallyI'll like chase around the house
and try to give her hugs and,you know, trap her in the closet
and things like that.
She can't stand it.
She's like you only do thiswhen, like, I'm stressed out and
and and finally I just told herlike you know what, like that
(34:46):
is my anxiety coming out when Isee her stressed out, like I
feel like I'm doing somethingwrong or like she's not really
happy and and it's just mynatural way of like trying to
check in, kind of like I don'tknow, it's kind of puppy dog
year, whatever, just like likewell that anxious attachment
yeah totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, yeah, everyone does that.
You looked at me Do.
I do that.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
No, but I can.
I can picture it so clearlythat I'm like does Tommy do that
?
Cause I can.
It's like yeah, you're, you're,you get extra playful, or
something like that, because theother person is.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, and it's it's caused like these little issues
at times because like she'llkind of like really buck against
that, like she's like get outof here, I gotta get these
things done Right, and then I'llget all offended or sensitive.
And that was kind of our thingfor a while is we'd have like
these little tiffs in thesemoments and she couldn't really
(35:39):
understand why I wouldn't justlet her get ready and I didn't
really have the language to kindof express that.
You know what, when you kind ofget like that, like we're we're
going to get to work face on,like something happens within me
and it was anxiety.
And what happened is she waslike you know, I've never really
understood it as anxiety, likeI thought you're just trying to
(36:02):
prevent me from getting my stuffdone, but it gave her kind of
an ability to see what washappening in me and it doesn't
give me permission to do that.
I think it actually helped meto recognize what that was all
about too.
And yeah, for some time we'vebeen able to get through those
(36:22):
moments without gettingfrustrated with each other.
But now that was the first timewe've actually had a
conversation like you know what,when I do, that's because I
feel anxious in our relationshipand I think we're going to have
different ways of solving itgoing forward.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So, yeah, that's so.
That's such a good example ofbeing surprised and it's
surprising.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
On the receipt.
It was probably surprising forKelsey to be like, oh, he's
feeling anxious.
But it's also surprising for mesometimes, when I'm checking in
, to be like, oh, that's there.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
That was my experience.
I didn't know ahead of time whyI was playing with her
essentially, but it was like apuppy dog kind of play.
It was like look at me, can youtell me?
I'm OK.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Scratch my pack and I think what's good there?
And I think probably in ourcreative process, we keep having
the same fight, we keep havingthe same argument why and
there's a time to maybe go offyour separate ways to explore
(37:32):
what the heck's going on insideof you.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
And yeah, I love that , because that's really the work
that I do here is to helppeople understand why they're
getting into the same pattern ofconflict and what we find.
100% of the time it's becauseyou are having an emotional
experience in that conflict andwhat you're trying to do is
(37:56):
you're trying to get the otherperson to show up in a way to
take care of that emotion, andthat's where we get stuck right.
So when you, like you'retalking about Tommy, kind of
step away and kind of focus onyourself rather than the other
person.
What comes out of that islanguage.
What comes out of that isdifferent solutions.
What comes out of that is waysto understand even your partner
(38:20):
and their experience in it.
So I think it's super valuableto kind of notice that, become
aware of it and then trydifferent ways of solving it
which don't include your partner.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, so true.
I heard this interview withBoyd Vardy and Tim Ferriss and I
remember he was out in thistree for 60 days or something
and he cracked his head so hardand his anger lasted like five
seconds, simply because no onewas there to absorb it.
(38:52):
And so it just hit me, becauseevery time I notice I want Tommy
to know how mad I am, and it'sso freeing to think like, okay,
if he weren't here right now, ifhe were just not here at all,
how would I handle this?
(39:13):
And not trying to drag him downwith me?
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It's interesting because I notice that myself
quite a bit and I see it with alot of other people.
We want desperately otherpeople to experience our same
emotions, and when we're mad, wewant other people to be mad,
and when we're hurt.
We want other people to be hurt, but it is interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, and you guys are giving me a revelation right
now because I'm working.
I'm working with right now.
He's going through somemarriage stuff and he wants his
wife to feel the emotional painthat he feels and he totally
realizes it.
In a coaching session we cantalk about it and he sees it.
(39:59):
But in the game, when he's athome and the kids are around and
life is happening, he has areally hard time not trying and
it comes out as anger, it comesout as rage to make someone else
feel that emotion.
So I don't know.
It's interesting, it is aninteresting thing.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
It is, and we've been doing this little app with Nell
lately.
What's it?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
called how we feel.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
How we feel and anyway, and we all check in on
it, and so when it's alldifferent colors, nell loves it
because it looks like rainbow,but it's really cool for her to
see that she's feeling this andneither of us are feeling that,
and that's fine.
It's a lesson for all of us.
(40:46):
I think, yeah, that is.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
So we want to fix other people's emotions and we
also want them to feel ouremotions.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
That's exactly it, and the more we can see that,
the more we can see where we getstuck in that process.
I think that when things areworking well, we do those things
.
We are able to be there forsomeone else's emotions and, in
a way, regulate them, and otherpeople are able to be there for
our emotions and, in a way,regulate us.
(41:20):
But when it gets stuck, theonly place that we can really go
in and control that and solvefor it is with our levers,
ourself, and I think that's whatwe have to see.
I think the world is amazingwhen we can be in tune and
responsive and care for eachother and help each other and
(41:43):
have people in our life that arethere for us and our emotions.
It's just when it's nothappening, the solution isn't
always to go and wiggle yourfinger at someone and say
naughty, naughty.
The solution is to figure outokay, and what can I do to
create more of this in my life,and I think that that can really
open up some avenues for changeand success.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
And I think yeah, I just think that in a marriage
sometimes I find this for guysand it's probably true for girls
also that the place for a guideevent and try to figure out
that stuff is his wife, and whenyour problem is in that
(42:33):
relationship and you don't haveanyone to talk about it with, I
think that's something that guyshave a hard time with and we
talked about, I think, before.
We recorded that this issues inmarriage doesn't get talked a
lot about, and I mean it bums meout how many dudes I start
(42:56):
coaching that are at this pointin their marriage where, like,
like it's gotten to this point,like I saw it coming, I knew we
were off, I knew I wasn'tshowing up the way I wanted to
and Nobody else knows about it.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
They've told no one.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yeah, from the outside everything looks good
and if they go to talk to theirbuddies about it, their buddies
just commiserate with them andlike, yeah, man, wife's are
doing that all the time and youknow it's it's.
There's not a person there tobe like own your own, like this,
that like you can't change her.
You can't like what we'retalking about being able to like
(43:36):
look at yourself and what yourpatterns that you're bringing
and I Just think that's anotherTool that you can bring in is
having some place to go, whetherit's a men's group coach, a
therapist.
I mean couples therapy is likeI Don't know.
I Suggested to most of myclients, if they're not already
(43:59):
in it, having like their ownspace and a couple's and yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, and and I think I think you highlight something
that's worth highlighting again, tommy that Husbands do go to
their wives to kind of Vent anddiscuss ideas.
And I've heard it from a lot ofmy clients and one of the
things that Kelsey and I reallyliked doing is going for a walk
and I I think I tend to foolmyself to believe that she
(44:29):
enjoys it, but what I find is,as I'm moving, for some reason,
that's when my brain works andand my mouth will be going a
million miles a minute on thatwhole walk and I'll just be like
just Processing out loud andshe's just amazing at huffing
along beside me and Listeningand I appreciate it so much.
(44:50):
Yeah, I told her like I likeit's not the walk, it's just
like being able to let my brainkind of like dump and you're,
and she's there.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Especially when you're coaching and helping
people all day.
I was just saying that to Tommylast night.
Like you need to make sure youhave that.
You know because you're you'reusually not in that space.
Your profession doesn't allowyou to be so we.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I'm in this men's workout group and I know we're
probably gonna.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, we got four minutes.
I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
All right.
Yeah, what you said aboutwalking and talking and, and for
dudes there's even this walkingnext to each other, when you
don't have to make eye contact,there's like, and I think that's
something that eventually youwant to be able to be seen and
have that eye contact.
(45:41):
But yeah, I'm in this workoutgroup and we rock.
Have you ever heard of rocking?
It's like where you yeah sowe're rocking we usually rock
next to each other and we havesome pretty solid conversations.
And I'll say to some of theguys like, whether it's a
workout or not, you can do thatby yourself, and maybe you look
(46:04):
a little crazy walking down thestreet talking to yourself, but
you can and I'll do it, I'll doit in my car and just like that
that, getting that stuff out ofyour head and into space, it's
yeah, it's helpful.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I've done it on my voice notes before.
I'm talking to my voice notesand just kind of figuring out
what I'm trying to say or whatI'm thinking.
That's been helpful.
Just talk, you're in your car,you're alone, you're letting
some stuff out, and then youjust listen to it and it's
interesting just to kind of havethat come back.
Sometimes I just delete.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Absolutely.
I know our daughter's learninghow to read right now and I'm
like gosh she if she ever foundmy thought dumb journals all
over.
I just start being moreresponsible with where I leave
them.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah, and I know we have this hard deadline and and
I said, as we're getting going,that I set up these podcasts in
a way because I think there's somany areas that we can go.
I'd love to have you guys on inthe future because I just think
that there's a whole bunch of,like, little pockets even within
this conversation.
That could go on in a lot ofdifferent directions and for
quite some time.
(47:08):
But I do want just to point thelisteners to ways that they can
get more of you guys, more ofyour work, and why don't you
share with them?
I know you got a podcast, yougot a website.
What do you do?
How can people work with you?
All the good things.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, so go to the durable dad comm.
You'll find everything.
So the podcast is an awesomeplace to start to get to know me
a little bit more and what Icoach, how I coach and I Coach
one-on-one and that's prettyfilled up.
But you know the it spots openup here and there and then I
also do courses.
(47:45):
So we run and host courses,small courses like that stop
losing your temper.
Get organized for dads and,yeah, different ways to work
with me.
The durable dad comm you canfigure it all out.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, perfect, I will have all that in the show notes
and and we'll be in touch.
Follow them.
You guys are on social media.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yep, go to the durable dad comm.
You'll find us Instagram,linkedin.
All that good stuff, good stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Thanks, brenda, forparticipating.
Your insight is so valuable.
Thanks, tommy, for making thiswork and and I look forward to
sharing this with Everyone.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Thank you, Brett.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Thanks, Brett.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
It was awesome.
This has been the fighting forconnection podcast.
If you've enjoyed this podcastand want more content like this,
check out my connected couplescampus, which can be found on my
website, wwwpivotalapproachcom,and become the difference you
need in your relationship.
Episode number 68.
Hello and welcome to theFighting for Connection podcast.
I'm Brett Nicola, a husband,father and fun lover.
Listen in as I share stories,tips and inspiration that will
(00:23):
move you toward the connectionthat you want in your
relationship.
Alright, welcome back to theFighting for Connection podcast.
Today I have on with me anotherfellow LC, essar, life coach,
school coach and his wife Brenda.
(00:44):
Welcome on to the podcast.
Thank you, brett.
What's up, brett?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks for having us and it's Tommy.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So Tommy and Brenda, Gary, what's that?
Gary Like gear.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Like the gear in the car yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I love it.
So Tommy and I had aconversation a couple weeks back
now and we talked about allkinds of amazing things that
we're going to continue to talkabout today.
At the end he's like, hey, whatdo you think about Brenda
coming on?
And I was like, hey, brendacoming on, that'd be amazing.
And I think that that wassomething that I always am a fan
(01:23):
of.
I'm always pushing for couplesto come on to this podcast and
talk about all things couples,because, like I was sharing with
you guys before we startedrecording, I think there's still
some taboos aroundrelationships, around marriage,
especially.
So if we can talk about, like,all the amazing, you know,
(01:43):
things that our spouse is doingfor us, but it seems difficult
to talk about some of thechallenges that come up within
relationships and it still seemslike we're pretty guarded about
that.
But one of the things that I amreally passionate about on this
podcast, and something thatI've done myself, is to
highlight even, you know,marriage.
(02:04):
Therapist experienceschallenges in relationships and
I think everybody experienceschallenges in relationships, and
the more we can kind of takethe cover off of those things
and talk about them, I think,the more we can support each
other in relationships and it'sreally me just championing,
championing the relationship,yeah, yeah and really want
(02:29):
people to figure out how tonavigate through these
challenges and stay together.
So I love that you guys arewilling to come on and do this.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I didn't know it was Tommy's idea.
So glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I guess I don't even know either.
I feel like it was somethingright at the end where we were
talking about working togetherand I think we were just talking
about.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I don't know if you knew that Brenda and I owned the
business together and we kindof got into talking about what
that's been like in ourrelationship.
And Tommy G Coaching theDurable Dad podcast is our
second business that we've runtogether.
And yeah, just when you talkabout challenges and I think
(03:18):
those are, there's been a lot ofchallenges in our life,
business, wise, personal liesand I don't know.
So I guess sometimes we don'teven know them as challenges.
They're just like opportunitiesand yeah, and I think it's
brought us closer together andwe have a pretty tight
relationship and you know we setit before recording.
(03:39):
It's not happily ever after.
We're not happy all the timeand we do a good job, I think,
of repairing those times whenthere is a dispute, or yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
That's what it's all about.
I totally agree that.
You know, the challenges aren'tthe things that we're trying to
avoid in the relationship.
We're trying to get really goodat repairing, and the more
efficient and skilled we can getat repairing our relationship,
the longer it's going to lastand the closer it's going to be.
So I love that yeah, I knowyeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I mean just to dive right in from me.
I don't think I knew any ofthat.
Like well, we've been married13 years.
I probably figured that out,like eight years ago that you
got to work on repair and thatwhen there isn't, that when
there is fight, when there isconflict, that to repair easily,
(04:35):
you got to stick around for theconversation and I think for me
that was hard.
I think I would shut down, Iwould be silent and yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
With drawers you're not, I'm the same way.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, I think so many dudes are, and I think it's
because, like you know, brendawould be like what are you
thinking?
And I don't know what I'mthinking right now, and we
actually aren't aware of some ofthose subconscious thoughts,
not aware of our emotions, andthen we just shut down.
And even the dudes that I workwith sometimes it takes a while
(05:12):
to be able, like we'll coach andwe'll understand what thoughts
are going on in the middle of anargument and what emotions are
happening, but then to be ableto communicate those and say,
well, I'm whatever the emotionis, that that's like the next
level, I think.
So maybe I was aware that I hadto start talking eight years or
(05:35):
seven years ago, whatever, andthen it took me a year to
actually talk.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, to find the language.
Yeah, yeah, I think I forgotthat you used to shut down, and
I mean you do every now and then.
But I think one of the biggestlearnings for me like I just was
never good about letting thingsgo unsaid, like if something
was off, we needed to talk aboutit in my book.
(06:02):
But what I needed to learn wasthat, well, coaching actually
taught me this that I had totake the blame out of it.
And like I used to say thingslike when you do this, I feel,
or when you say that it makes mefeel da-da-da, and it was a lot
(06:25):
of pointing fingers.
And then coaching taught methat, oh, I'm actually creating
my own feelings, and so now we Imean if someone heard us argue,
they would laugh, but it's verymuch like deep breaths and like
when you say that I'm tellingmyself that da-da-da-da-da-da-da
(06:47):
, and it's like we take theownership of how we feel and
that helps a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I think it's helping them, helping our spouse, see
what's happening within us inthose moments.
And yeah, it's not blaming them, but I love how that is.
And it's funny, like I thinkpeople you're right they kind of
be like, wow, that sounds likescripted or it doesn't sound
real.
But what often I tell people islike, hey, if we script
(07:14):
something and we have betterresults and we have, you know,
higher levels of repair andbetter connection and we just
we're moving out of, like oursubconscious emotional brain and
into more like a regulated anda conscious brain, I think
that's an amazing skill, anamazing thing to do.
(07:35):
So I, with my clients, and I wassaying, okay, how are we going
to show up in conflict?
And we do kind of the samethings.
It's like, okay, this is whatwe're gonna say and this is how
we're gonna say it.
And then they go home and do itand they come back and they say
it sounds scripted, it sounds,you know, whatever.
And what I find is that themore you do it, it probably
(07:57):
doesn't even feel like that foryou guys.
Now.
It just is like the way thatyou guys manage conflict.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, it's still uncomfortable sometimes and I
had a course that I ran calledStop Losing your Temper and
there was actually like Iactually gave scripts.
I'm feeling frustrated becauseI'm telling myself that you
don't appreciate all the workthat I'm doing, instead of being
(08:24):
like you don't appreciate thework I'm doing.
I'm feeling angry because I'mtelling myself this like Brenda
was saying it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, and it does.
It sounds scripted, butactually after, like you said,
brett, after you do it, itdoesn't.
Even.
Because I think it took a longtime, after learning about
coaching and the thinking cycleand cognitive behavioral therapy
to for it to dawn on me like Igenuinely am creating my
(08:53):
emotions.
He genuinely is not creatingthis for me, and so then, when
that finally sunk in thatrealization, it made our
conflicts, I think, a lot.
I think repair comes faster,yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And it's.
And when you said that and yousaid like, it finally sunk in, I
almost think that it finallyseparated.
Because when we're in a supertight relationship, you know you
talk about codependency andrelationships like oh, if my
wife's happy, then I'm happy, ifshe's angry, then I'm upset.
(09:31):
I'm upset and being able like Ido, like there is an energetic
connection in your house andthat is there.
But the power is to be able toseparate your partner's energy
from your energy and that's Ithink that's what Brenda's
(09:52):
saying like owning your emotions, that emotional maturity, to be
like these are my emotions, I'mgonna hold them.
If I'm choosing to be, I'mchoosing to be this way, it's
not the other person's fault.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
And I think that separation doesn't lead us to
living in silos, like I thinkyou know that's what a lot of
people are like well, if I'mresponsible for my emotions and
they don't have any impact onthem, then we're somehow gonna
like just be these independentpeople living in the same house.
But what I find is like when youtake on that responsibility of
(10:26):
your own emotions and you findlanguage for what's actually
happening inside which I thinkis kind of what you're talking
about, brenda like all of asudden you believe the language
that you were communicating.
It was like I am creating theseemotions and now you can
communicate that to Tommy andwhat that does is it helps him
see what's happening for you,but it also puts you in a
(10:48):
position where now you're notdependent on him taking care of
you, so now you can actually goand take care of him.
And I think, like that I talkabout it all the time on the
podcast that that is the magicof relationships is not we don't
self-regulate so that we don'tneed each other, but we
self-regulate so that we can bethere for each other.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And yeah, a visual that I get sometimes when cause
a lot of guys struggle with thatand feel like, well, I'm not
gonna be.
Well, just the other day, ourdaughter now was just having a
rough morning.
You were like whole hummingaround the house and it's just
like borderline, like okay, likeyou need to have a little you
(11:34):
know whatever.
So we were talking about thatand I think that's what guys
interpreted as is like if mywife is sad, I'm not gonna be
thrilled, but I think of it aslike if a friend, if a good
friend, lost their parent, youaren't gonna be a sobbing mess,
like you will be able toempathize with them better when
(11:57):
you're grounded and holdingspace for them, rather than like
a disaster in there, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I know exactly what you're saying.
There.
We're like if someone isneeding, you know, some solace
or some care, you need to stayin a place where you're able to
care for them.
You can't be like competing forcare with them, like oh, I
missed your mom so much.
She like that's not actuallyhelpful where you're needing
them to kind of console and carefor you and to be able to kind
(12:33):
of stay in that spot of holdingspace for their emotions and
being not cold and callous butresponsive to it, and it's a
skill.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah yeah, it's very, I don't know.
Just, I'm picturing now justlike some kind of like Tai Chi
ninja, being able to take onsomeone else's energy and take
(13:06):
that on and not hold it, justlike let it be there and be able
to, yeah, hold it for them,take it, and then like, yeah, I
don't know, show up as yourselfin that storm.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
It's so good, because a lot of couples struggle with
this.
Like if I'm having a good day atwork, I get home and my wife's
having a bad day, then like,especially in the past, it was
like all right, the whole ship'sgoing down together, right,
we're all gonna have just aterrible evening and I'm gonna
be upset with her because she'shaving a bad day and she should
have been in a good mood,because I was in a good mood and
(13:41):
why she taken my mood down andso I'm kind of putting the blame
on her.
And it was like weird To be ableto come home, be in a good mood
, see that your wife is not in agood mood, and to be able to
just like, totally be there forit, recognize like we all have
moods and we all have the daysthat aren't going well, and just
(14:04):
to, yeah, like we're talkingabout, hold space for it, allow
it to be there, take it on,don't just like that's your
problem, but to be like, oh,yeah, I can see that you're
having a tough day and how can Isupport it?
Maybe you can even jump in andsupport in the ways that you
know are supportive, but youdon't need to match that energy
and then put the blame on themfor taking it, and the thing
(14:27):
with dudes.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So the example you're saying is you're in a good mood
, you're feeling like you had aproductive day.
You show up.
Your wife didn't have that samekind of experience.
She's frustrated or stressed,like dudes want to fix that
emotion really quickly and theywant to tell her how it's okay
(14:50):
and how can I help, like let'sget this thing done right away
and tell her all the reasonsthat she should be feeling good
and that also isn't helpful,right, so we're not taking on
her sadness and stress, but nowwe're trying to change the other
person.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, so we feel better.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
That's what's underneath.
That.
That's the next part of that.
Right, we think that, oh, we'rebeing helpful, we're being nice
, because we're trying to makeyou feel better.
But the reason that we're doingthat is because we want to feel
better and to kind of go back.
What I think happens at thatfirst level you walk in the door
(15:33):
and I'm not saying you, anydude walks in the door and his
wife's not having a greatexperience.
The reason we want to fix, Ithink, is because we're not
comfortable with whateveremotion she's having, 100%.
So, if and that's when it comesto doing the work yourself,
(15:53):
yeah, and I think it's with kidstoo if your kid's flipping out
and having a tantrum and yourpattern is to yell at them and
shut them down and tell them tocalm down, it's because you're
not comfortable with your ownanger and you haven't managed
your own anger.
But when you do, then you areable to create more calm and
(16:13):
more patience when other peopleare dysregulated and other
people are triggered or whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, I think it goes .
I think girls do it too.
I mean, I think just two daysago you were buying tickets for
going on a family trip and youbought tickets plane tickets for
the wrong day.
And he realized it and was likefirst words and in right, I
(16:43):
almost said we'll just call themand I like had suggestions on
the tip of my tongue ready tofix, and then I realized what I
was about to do.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And you were just like yeah.
And you were just like, oh,bummer, dang it.
I can't believe you did thatLike that sucks.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I didn't say I can't believe you did that.
What an idiot.
No, I didn't say that.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
It wasn't a can't believe.
You did that, idiot, I thinkeverybody.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I think everyone wants to fix it's the advice
trap when people aren't reallythere.
Yeah, advice.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So yeah, no, I think that's good and this is how this
conversation is gonna go.
We could just talk all day, butI do think we kind of glossed
over who you guys are and whatyou guys are all about.
So I wanna kind of go back tojust quickly like what your
guys' story is as a couple andkind of bring me through.
(17:40):
You said a couple of businessesand now we have the durable
dads and the work that you'redoing there.
That's your podcast.
I wanna hear kind of all aboutthat.
And Brenda, you're involvedwith Tommy's business, your
guys' business together.
So I'd love to just hear yourguys' story in as concise of a
(18:01):
way as you possibly can asconcise of a way yeah, I think
Speaker 2 (18:04):
well, I think that our relationship could probably
be summed up by, I don't want tosay taking risks, but like
doing different things.
I mean, like I said, I don'twant to talk in too many
(18:24):
generalities, but basicallyBrenda's from Ohio, I'm from
Chicago.
We met in Colorado at both ofour times in our life where we
just weren't exactly sure whatthe rest of our career was going
to be, and when we found eachother.
I think that we try I don'tknow.
(18:46):
We tried a lot of things outand kind of grew together.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yeah, we lived in Colorado for 15 years before we
moved.
Well, that's a challenge we canget into, if you want.
Before we moved back to Ohio,that was a long 10-year
discussion if we were going tocome back to the Midwest, be
closer to family.
But yeah, we both worked in theski industry and I started a
(19:14):
little creative agency aboutgosh eight years ago now, and
then Tommy was able to quit hiscorporate job and come onto that
and so we did work together inthat business and knew that we
wanted that it wasn't what wewanted to do forever and got
into life coaching and I gotcertified first and then, oh,
(19:36):
you're certified too.
Yeah, not through LCS, but adifferent program, but that's
how I found LCS.
And then just yeah, what do youitch in to say?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I got nothing.
In my head is like oh man,there's so many different things
and we can't tell them allright now.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
But lost over is we found out about eight years ago
that we couldn't have kidswithout surgery or intervention.
We didn't want to do IVF or anyof that stuff and knew we were
going to adopt.
But before we did that we bothquit our jobs and went to
Central America for a few monthsand yeah, I mean it out there
(20:16):
wasn't that.
My family in Ohio was like whatthe heck are you doing?
But out there people didn'thave stuff all the time.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That was a big step for us.
It was scary, it was a lot ofconversations and I wasn't sure
about stuff, you weren't sureabout stuff and you know we made
it happen and navigated thatand that was really cool.
I do think that.
Well, do you have anything else?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Well, I was just going to say a lot of couples we
found out later reallystruggled with that, with not
being able to have kids.
That wasn't a struggle for usso much.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I think the harder part for us was later choosing
to have kids because life was sowonderful and fun and easy and
we were 35 before we finallytook the leap and we lived in
this place in Colorado where ourback door was our playground,
(21:09):
just like we could strap on oursplit boards and skin up the
mountain and snowboard down andbackpacking, and our morning
routines were like an hour and ahalf long and so that was hard
to.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I think we were, I think I was probably there a
little sooner than you were, andit was just discussions about
are we really going to?
That was a challenge as much so.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I was just going to jump in that my morning routine
is an hour and a half long, butI don't picture it quite the
same as yours Trying to wrangleseven kids you know off to
school breakfast.
You have seven, we have six,seven on the way I count already
.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Wow, that's rare yeah we had three girls in a row and
we're all signs are pointing toour fourth boy in January, so
that's cool, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, I mean, our morning routines are not an hour
and a half anymore.
That's why we were laughinglike pre adopting yeah, that's
what it looked like.
And then that changes quickly.
Kids change.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That's the background I'd say.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, so how did you get into the current business
now?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, I think we.
So I left my corporate jobbecause Brenda's creative agency
was able to support our familyand we.
When I started working there,brenda was really running the
show.
She was the contact for all ofour clients and she she hadn't
(22:49):
taken a vacation in five yearsor something like that, and she
would have a week of slownessand be able to get out and enjoy
like some chill time.
But if we were planning a tripthree months out, she didn't
know if she had.
The was able to schedule herGreat.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I didn't set it up well.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, and so it was just really demanding on her.
And so there are two kind ofthings.
One was a lifestyle thing that,like I started kind of being
more of the dad parent role.
If our, if our daughter nowwould get sick, I was the one
picking her up.
I had a little more flexibilityand it worked.
And it also kind of.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I wanted to be that role.
I think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That eight and so eight at Brenda, and so that was
one of the things that wewanted a little more control of
our schedule and in the creativeworld when you're working for
clients, that's just not how itwas and then and we didn't want
to build out employees.
Anyway, the other part of itwas that we wanted to help more,
(23:55):
we wanted to serve or whatever,and the coaching had brought a
lot to both of our lives.
Brenda had a coach first, I hada coach after that and I don't
know.
We saw the power in being ableto harness, like yourself and
(24:15):
your brain and your body andbeing able to.
You know the power of that inthe world and I think and before
.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
and so I got certified as a coach out of just
personal development to help melead better at the business.
And then, tommy you, before youquit your corporate job, you
became a yoga and meditationinstructor and I think that was
kind of walking the path towardswhere he is yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, and you adopted .
Now at what point.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Before you became certified in that.
So we now five now.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So we adopted her when she was a baby, so yeah, so
yeah, she was under water, shewas maybe one.
When I went through the yogaand meditation training, I
thought about going intoleadership development in the
corporate world because I waskind of just digging the
teaching vibe and everythinglike that and and then we're, I
don't know.
We were kind of like let's doit ourselves.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
We were pumped about it.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, I can remember sitting at the coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I did too yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Loaded Joe's.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Loaded Joe's and Ava.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And you guys talk about that.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, and just sitting there and looking at the
LCS certification and I lookedat let's see other one, I see
ICP.
No, there's another trainingthat I was looking at.
But we just we were like, allright, we're doing it, it starts
in March.
And, yeah, we sat at that tableand just decided it and put the
(25:48):
credit card down and we'regoing to go with that.
So you started March of whatyear?
2020, right in the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, okay, so I was.
I was the following year then,because I started March of 2021.
Nice, nice, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Great program.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, they were, they were dialed.
It was a great program, so Iguess that's how we got here to
the drill Tommy.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
G.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Coaching Tommy G Coaching.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, so tell me about that.
You guys are working now.
That's both of your guys isfull-time gig.
Yep, how's that going?
Everyone wants to know whatit's like to work with your
spouse.
It's awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I know.
Before this I was like I knowthey want to hear, they don't
want to hear that, but it reallyis.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I think people do want to hear that, and why is it
Well?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
when working at the corporate at my previous
corporate job.
I don't think it was arevelation coming out of that
and not having to Like Tommywhen he came into the company.
He's just smart, capable,level-headed, learns quick and
it just was easy.
And I know that we got to beable to thrive in any
(27:07):
environment but it was justeasier to thrive working
together.
I think we both care about thebusiness so much.
I think that goes a long waywhen you're working with other
people, so their level ofcommitment to the business and I
mean of course we have dayswhere it's just like you want to
(27:30):
blow your head off, but butit's by far our favorite job
we've ever had.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And how do you navigate through those, Like in
those moments we talked about ita little bit.
This is kind of going fullcircle now, but on those days
where it is challenging, what doyou guys do to kind of keep
moving forward and keep workingtogether?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, I think one thing, whether it's in our
business or it's in our personallife, we will do this check-in
process with each other and oneof us is usually feeling some
resistance to it, but the otherperson will say, let's check in
and we haven't decided this.
But I don't think either one ofus has ever said no.
We just say, okay, we'll do itbecause we know it helps and
(28:18):
it's just a quick, and I'll justsay it because I think it's
awesome in any relationship andI teach it to a lot of my guys
and we did a whole podcast on it.
But you it's three parts.
You look around the room, youname three things that are in
your physical presence, kind ofopens you up so you don't have
that narrow view anymore.
And then you name three thingsthat you feel physically in your
(28:39):
body and hot, cold, the clotheson your skin and then you say
three emotions that you'refeeling.
And I think that three emotionsis cool, because that's how
emotions work they're moving,they're flexible.
It's crazy when you say I'mstressed and then you also say,
but I'm optimistic, and so we dothat one person.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
And I'll mention, not to cut you off.
I didn't know if you were goingto move on, but I think, as the
recipient listening to someone,listening to you check in
almost every time he says hisemotions, I'm a little surprised
and then I'm a little moreempathetic and it just connects
you, I think.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, that's a good point One person speaking, the
other person is receiving, beingopen to it, noticing the
judgments that they create intheir head, and it's really like
it's connecting with each other.
And then the other person doesit, so that that usually starts
the repair.
Doesn't always like make uslike leave with big hugs or
(29:47):
anything like that, but itstarts a real conversation, it
cuts through the blame andreally quickly.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
And we're going to say you're going to say two
things.
We have the check in process, Ithink, and when things are, I
mean we have disagreementsTommy's usually better at taking
risks than I'm usually likewhoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
not ready, and so we're kind oflike go head to head at certain
points and we just have to, andI think that slows us down a lot
(30:16):
actually.
But we just we kind of, if weneed to, we take a breather,
take a walk.
You know Tommy's coaching a lot, so that gives us space.
That is forced, forced spacefrom each other.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, and I mean Brenda works fast, she's smart,
and when we're creatingsomething like the podcast like
if you go and listen to theDurable Dad podcast, you hear
Tommy to get to that point, ourcreative process of the outline
and the concept and the creativefeedback and the direction,
(30:51):
brenda's like boom, that's herthing.
And I'm not that that I cancoach.
I'm a coach and I'm learninghow to be.
You know that that guy oncamera.
You talked about it on yourlast podcast, about being a
storyteller and about, like,trying to tell a concise story
and get the message across in acompelling way.
(31:13):
And Brenda can do that reallywell and it's like she's already
there but I'm not there yet andI can get frustrated, I can get
like whoa is me and that'sprobably something that slows us
down.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
We had a meeting, I think, just last week that I
have to sandwich my feedbackbetter with positive.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Sometimes we have 20 minutes so I'm like boom, boom
running through it and then Iforget it's daunting on the
receiving end and I think Ithink really what you're
highlighting there is, you know,as these dads on the other end,
or men in general, we do wantour spouse or partner to
generally be happy with us, togenerally see us in a positive
(32:01):
light, and sometimes we get alittle bit sensitive when we're
hearing the message that ourpartner isn't happy with us or
doesn't like what we're doing.
And I think oftentimes that'swhat I see a lot with wives that
I work with is theyunderestimate the power of their
messaging and the power of whatthey're sharing with their
(32:24):
husband.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Totally, and I think, well, don't you already know
that?
Like I really need to say that?
And it's like yeah, you do, Ineed to hear it, and so why
would he yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Sorry, yeah, there's.
No, there's a couple ofthoughts there.
One little quick thing there'sa comic strip that I have it
stuck in my mind.
I should go find it someday.
But it's like a husband andwife in front of their pastor
and the husband is, or the wifeis, sharing with the pastor that
you know.
He just doesn't say I love youanymore I'm not sure if he loves
me and the husband responds Itold her I loved her on our
(33:03):
wedding day and I'll let herknow when it changes.
And I love that because it'sthat idea exactly, that he knows
that he loves her, right.
But in a human relationshipwe're not always sure that the
other person cares about us, andthat's why I think we have to
get so good at reassuring eachother when conflict comes up,
(33:24):
when issues arise, that we docare about each other, we do
love each other, and if we canestablish that, then I think we
can stay on the same team, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And our brains start to trick ourselves and think
like, oh, he's got a problemwith me.
This is you know, and so itdoes and needs to be reassured.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, yeah.
And then the second thing thatthis came up.
This was a thought that came upa while back.
When you're talking about thatcheck-in process and
communicating your emotions thatare within you what Kelsey and
I just had this experience theother day it was a couple weeks
(34:03):
ago now She'll get kind of likestressed around time.
I'm kind of like time is likeabstract and get there.
When we get there and she'slike no, we're going to get
there, you know, if it's we'resupposed to be there at noon.
11.50 is 10 minutes late, youknow.
And so when she gets into thatmoment she's really good at
(34:26):
getting tasks done and usuallyI'll like chase around the house
and try to give her hugs and,you know, trap her in the closet
and things like that.
She can't stand it.
She's like you only do thiswhen, like, I'm stressed out and
and and finally I just told herlike you know what, like that
(34:46):
is my anxiety coming out when Isee her stressed out, like I
feel like I'm doing somethingwrong or like she's not really
happy and and it's just mynatural way of like trying to
check in, kind of like I don'tknow, it's kind of puppy dog
year, whatever, just like likewell that anxious attachment
yeah totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, yeah, everyone does that.
You looked at me Do.
I do that.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
No, but I can.
I can picture it so clearlythat I'm like does Tommy do that
?
Cause I can.
It's like yeah, you're, you're,you get extra playful, or
something like that, because theother person is.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, and it's it's caused like these little issues
at times because like she'llkind of like really buck against
that, like she's like get outof here, I gotta get these
things done Right, and then I'llget all offended or sensitive.
And that was kind of our thingfor a while is we'd have like
these little tiffs in thesemoments and she couldn't really
(35:39):
understand why I wouldn't justlet her get ready and I didn't
really have the language to kindof express that.
You know what, when you kind ofget like that, like we're we're
going to get to work face on,like something happens within me
and it was anxiety.
And what happened is she waslike you know, I've never really
understood it as anxiety, likeI thought you're just trying to
(36:02):
prevent me from getting my stuffdone, but it gave her kind of
an ability to see what washappening in me and it doesn't
give me permission to do that.
I think it actually helped meto recognize what that was all
about too.
And yeah, for some time we'vebeen able to get through those
(36:22):
moments without gettingfrustrated with each other.
But now that was the first timewe've actually had a
conversation like you know what,when I do, that's because I
feel anxious in our relationshipand I think we're going to have
different ways of solving itgoing forward.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So, yeah, that's so.
That's such a good example ofbeing surprised and it's
surprising.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
On the receipt.
It was probably surprising forKelsey to be like, oh, he's
feeling anxious.
But it's also surprising for mesometimes, when I'm checking in
, to be like, oh, that's there.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
That was my experience.
I didn't know ahead of time whyI was playing with her
essentially, but it was like apuppy dog kind of play.
It was like look at me, can youtell me?
I'm OK.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Scratch my pack and I think what's good there?
And I think probably in ourcreative process, we keep having
the same fight, we keep havingthe same argument why and
there's a time to maybe go offyour separate ways to explore
(37:32):
what the heck's going on insideof you.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
And yeah, I love that , because that's really the work
that I do here is to helppeople understand why they're
getting into the same pattern ofconflict and what we find.
100% of the time it's becauseyou are having an emotional
experience in that conflict andwhat you're trying to do is
(37:56):
you're trying to get the otherperson to show up in a way to
take care of that emotion, andthat's where we get stuck right.
So when you, like you'retalking about Tommy, kind of
step away and kind of focus onyourself rather than the other
person.
What comes out of that islanguage.
What comes out of that isdifferent solutions.
What comes out of that is waysto understand even your partner
(38:20):
and their experience in it.
So I think it's super valuableto kind of notice that, become
aware of it and then trydifferent ways of solving it
which don't include your partner.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, so true.
I heard this interview withBoyd Vardy and Tim Ferriss and I
remember he was out in thistree for 60 days or something
and he cracked his head so hardand his anger lasted like five
seconds, simply because no onewas there to absorb it.
(38:52):
And so it just hit me, becauseevery time I notice I want Tommy
to know how mad I am, and it'sso freeing to think like, okay,
if he weren't here right now, ifhe were just not here at all,
how would I handle this?
(39:13):
And not trying to drag him downwith me?
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It's interesting because I notice that myself
quite a bit and I see it with alot of other people.
We want desperately otherpeople to experience our same
emotions, and when we're mad, wewant other people to be mad,
and when we're hurt.
We want other people to be hurt, but it is interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, and you guys are giving me a revelation right
now because I'm working.
I'm working with right now.
He's going through somemarriage stuff and he wants his
wife to feel the emotional painthat he feels and he totally
realizes it.
In a coaching session we cantalk about it and he sees it.
(39:59):
But in the game, when he's athome and the kids are around and
life is happening, he has areally hard time not trying and
it comes out as anger, it comesout as rage to make someone else
feel that emotion.
So I don't know.
It's interesting, it is aninteresting thing.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
It is, and we've been doing this little app with Nell
lately.
What's it?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
called how we feel.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
How we feel and anyway, and we all check in on
it, and so when it's alldifferent colors, nell loves it
because it looks like rainbow,but it's really cool for her to
see that she's feeling this andneither of us are feeling that,
and that's fine.
It's a lesson for all of us.
(40:46):
I think, yeah, that is.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
So we want to fix other people's emotions and we
also want them to feel ouremotions.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
That's exactly it, and the more we can see that,
the more we can see where we getstuck in that process.
I think that when things areworking well, we do those things
.
We are able to be there forsomeone else's emotions and, in
a way, regulate them, and otherpeople are able to be there for
our emotions and, in a way,regulate us.
(41:20):
But when it gets stuck, theonly place that we can really go
in and control that and solvefor it is with our levers,
ourself, and I think that's whatwe have to see.
I think the world is amazingwhen we can be in tune and
responsive and care for eachother and help each other and
(41:43):
have people in our life that arethere for us and our emotions.
It's just when it's nothappening, the solution isn't
always to go and wiggle yourfinger at someone and say
naughty, naughty.
The solution is to figure outokay, and what can I do to
create more of this in my life,and I think that that can really
open up some avenues for changeand success.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
And I think yeah, I just think that in a marriage
sometimes I find this for guysand it's probably true for girls
also that the place for a guideevent and try to figure out
that stuff is his wife, and whenyour problem is in that
(42:33):
relationship and you don't haveanyone to talk about it with, I
think that's something that guyshave a hard time with and we
talked about, I think, before.
We recorded that this issues inmarriage doesn't get talked a
lot about, and I mean it bums meout how many dudes I start
(42:56):
coaching that are at this pointin their marriage where, like,
like it's gotten to this point,like I saw it coming, I knew we
were off, I knew I wasn'tshowing up the way I wanted to
and Nobody else knows about it.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
They've told no one.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yeah, from the outside everything looks good
and if they go to talk to theirbuddies about it, their buddies
just commiserate with them andlike, yeah, man, wife's are
doing that all the time and youknow it's it's.
There's not a person there tobe like own your own, like this,
that like you can't change her.
You can't like what we'retalking about being able to like
(43:36):
look at yourself and what yourpatterns that you're bringing
and I Just think that's anotherTool that you can bring in is
having some place to go, whetherit's a men's group coach, a
therapist.
I mean couples therapy is likeI Don't know.
I Suggested to most of myclients, if they're not already
(43:59):
in it, having like their ownspace and a couple's and yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, and and I think I think you highlight something
that's worth highlighting again, tommy that Husbands do go to
their wives to kind of Vent anddiscuss ideas.
And I've heard it from a lot ofmy clients and one of the
things that Kelsey and I reallyliked doing is going for a walk
and I I think I tend to foolmyself to believe that she
(44:29):
enjoys it, but what I find is,as I'm moving, for some reason,
that's when my brain works andand my mouth will be going a
million miles a minute on thatwhole walk and I'll just be like
just Processing out loud andshe's just amazing at huffing
along beside me and Listeningand I appreciate it so much.
(44:50):
Yeah, I told her like I likeit's not the walk, it's just
like being able to let my brainkind of like dump and you're,
and she's there.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Especially when you're coaching and helping
people all day.
I was just saying that to Tommylast night.
Like you need to make sure youhave that.
You know because you're you'reusually not in that space.
Your profession doesn't allowyou to be so we.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I'm in this men's workout group and I know we're
probably gonna.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, we got four minutes.
I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
All right.
Yeah, what you said aboutwalking and talking and, and for
dudes there's even this walkingnext to each other, when you
don't have to make eye contact,there's like, and I think that's
something that eventually youwant to be able to be seen and
have that eye contact.
(45:41):
But yeah, I'm in this workoutgroup and we rock.
Have you ever heard of rocking?
It's like where you yeah sowe're rocking we usually rock
next to each other and we havesome pretty solid conversations.
And I'll say to some of theguys like, whether it's a
workout or not, you can do thatby yourself, and maybe you look
(46:04):
a little crazy walking down thestreet talking to yourself, but
you can and I'll do it, I'll doit in my car and just like that
that, getting that stuff out ofyour head and into space, it's
yeah, it's helpful.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I've done it on my voice notes before.
I'm talking to my voice notesand just kind of figuring out
what I'm trying to say or whatI'm thinking.
That's been helpful.
Just talk, you're in your car,you're alone, you're letting
some stuff out, and then youjust listen to it and it's
interesting just to kind of havethat come back.
Sometimes I just delete.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Absolutely.
I know our daughter's learninghow to read right now and I'm
like gosh she if she ever foundmy thought dumb journals all
over.
I just start being moreresponsible with where I leave
them.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah, and I know we have this hard deadline and and
I said, as we're getting going,that I set up these podcasts in
a way because I think there's somany areas that we can go.
I'd love to have you guys on inthe future because I just think
that there's a whole bunch of,like, little pockets even within
this conversation.
That could go on in a lot ofdifferent directions and for
quite some time.
(47:08):
But I do want just to point thelisteners to ways that they can
get more of you guys, more ofyour work, and why don't you
share with them?
I know you got a podcast, yougot a website.
What do you do?
How can people work with you?
All the good things.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, so go to the durable dad comm.
You'll find everything.
So the podcast is an awesomeplace to start to get to know me
a little bit more and what Icoach, how I coach and I Coach
one-on-one and that's prettyfilled up.
But you know the it spots openup here and there and then I
also do courses.
(47:45):
So we run and host courses,small courses like that stop
losing your temper.
Get organized for dads and,yeah, different ways to work
with me.
The durable dad comm you canfigure it all out.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, perfect, I will have all that in the show notes
and and we'll be in touch.
Follow them.
You guys are on social media.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yep, go to the durable dad comm.
You'll find us Instagram,linkedin.
All that good stuff, good stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Thanks, brenda, forparticipating.
Your insight is so valuable.
Thanks, tommy, for making thiswork and and I look forward to
sharing this with Everyone.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Thank you, Brett.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Thanks, Brett.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
It was awesome.
This has been the fighting forconnection podcast.
If you've enjoyed this podcastand want more content like this,
check out my connected couplescampus, which can be found on my
website, wwwpivotalapproachcom,and become the difference you
need in your relationship.
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