What if there was a way to navigate the most sensitive of topics with grace and understanding? Together, Wes, Pierre, and Michelle will journey through these challenging conversations, offering our personal experiences and sharing how faith can provide solace and strength. We delve into the controversial yet fascinating topics that often spark heated debates, reminding our listeners that open-minded dialogue is key to gaining a wider perspective.
Cracking open the mysteries of the Bible, we explore the enigmatic concept of the Trinity and the biblical account of creation as told in Genesis. We grapple with the complexities of understanding the Trinity, and how a child-like approach might provide a fresh viewpoint. The conversation takes a scientific detour as we examine evolution in the context of the Galapagos Islands, juxtaposing faith with the concept of adaptation. We contemplate the biblical account of creation, pondering the omnipotence of God's words, and the speed with which prayers can be answered.
As we dive into the enigma that is the existence of dinosaurs, we juxtapose biblical references to dragons and hypothesize on the environment that could have sustained such creatures. We consider the cataclysmic event that could have led to their extinction, and discuss humanity’s propensity to repeat mistakes. On a societal level, we contemplate the complexities of today's society, including the implications of Pride Month. Join us on this enlightening journey as we navigate the often turbulent waters of faith, evolution, and societal norms with an open mind and heart. Together, let’s spread the message of love and understanding.
Email: findingfaith.losingsleep@gmail.com
Twitter: @FindingFaithPod
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
It's time to wake up and pray up here on the Finding
Faith and Losing Sleep podcast,in the beginning, episode f 18.
I think I think it's episode 18.
Pierre No not 18.
How many, i think we're at 16.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is 16.
Well, there's sixes and eights.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Well, there's sixes and eights, all in the beginning
, episode 16.
How about that?
I did that pretty well.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
You start it and you start that way all the time, but
somehow you start up Michelle.
this time around She might jump.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That's fun.
Hey, i'm Wesley's.
What are your hosts?
at Lofen and over on Twitter,pierre is talking.
He is the producerextraordinaire, the guy that
kind of runs the ship here.
I'm sorry that you have to dothat, pierre, because I know
that I can get off kilter alittle bit sometimes and you
probably take a lot of heat fordoing that, pierre.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No, it works out well .
We have another pod togetherthat you kind of produce.
It's just kind of flipped overhere.
You got your moments, but I canpush through and edit what I
need to if necessary.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
He is at Peewee31 over on Twitter.
At Peewee31 on Twitter, hiswife joins us on this podcast.
Pierre talked about a sportspodcast.
Him and I do This one FindingFaith, losing Sleep podcast.
His wife joins us.
We thought, guys, i listened topast episodes.
Since the last time we talked,i've been listening to some past
episodes.
At one time I thought, michelle, that you were going to be on
(01:36):
this podcast to kind of separatePierre and I from talking about
things, because we talk aboutsome controversial topics.
Then Pierre said no, i thinkI'm supposed to be separating
you two is what I said.
That is Michelle.
At PAC 411.
Go PAC, go 411.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That is correct, Wes, but I'm not even sure about
that.
I think sometimes you separatePierre and I.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It gives me trouble.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
We are an everyday podcast just for everyday
listeners.
None of us have gone to atheological school, no seminary.
We haven't done anything.
We have studied the Bible,though.
We've talked about thingsbiblically, but also just life
issues, and trying to cometogether on all the different
topics.
Sometimes we've got to agree todisagree.
The reason why the three of ustogether work out so well, i
(02:20):
believe, is because we all havethree different backgrounds.
We all have three differentstyles of life going on.
I'm a Southern guy, those guysare in the Midwest, they're
married.
I'm married.
We've got a lot of differentperspectives.
It's cool to have us cometogether and to talk about these
things, guys.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, it's nice.
It's just good to shareperspective, because the Bible
is a lot.
I think that we talked abouthow we all kind of get different
things from it.
We all can interpret the Bibledifferently.
It's good to talk it outbecause I think that's the case
with many listeners They havetheir own opinions formed or
(03:01):
they get something different outof it.
Sometimes it makes you thinkand kind of ponder what it means
, what the context could havebeen back in those years and
things along those lines.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Sometimes it can just be flat out intimidating.
For me, it's overwhelming.
What I mean by intimidating isI get overwhelmed by it
sometimes.
Maybe that's where I feelintimidated by it.
For me, it helps tremendouslyto be able to talk through it,
because that's how I learnedbest.
(03:33):
Hopefully, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You said the Bible.
The Bible is intimidating orjust it has a lot of different
topics in it and everything likethat Life does too.
Life throws a lot of differenttopics our way.
I went all the way back to thebeginning and started listening
to those episodes because theyhave staying power.
It's probably not somethingthat you can't go back and
listen to the first one andlisten all the way through to
(03:56):
catch up to this one withoutpulling something out of it,
because it's not necessarilytrending topics.
There are solid topics thateverybody struggles with, but we
even talked about that That oneepisode.
We talked about suicide andabortion.
I was like we did talk aboutthat.
I forget about these things,but man, that's kind of
controversial stuff.
We did it in a way that I wouldthink would be pleasing to our
(04:19):
Father in heaven.
I thought we did a good job intalking about that, discussing
it with open minds and openhearts and trying to understand
all the different perspectives.
That's what we need today, ibelieve.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that's what we're hoping to do, because they
can be difficult subjects.
Just talking through it andhopefully the Lord has his hands
on this and he speaks throughus and it comes through the
microphone.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Oh no, hey, there was a lady, a young lady, who
approached me.
I've known her through work alittle bit and everything.
We've known each other throughchurch, league, softball and
stuff.
Her husband plays softball, iplay softball.
Our circle started getting alittle bit tighter.
She came to me and she asked mefor prayer one day and she told
(05:04):
me what was going on.
I told her, yeah, i would.
Then, michelle, it's somethingsimilar to medical things that
you were going through at onetime.
so I said, hey, i got thispodcast.
I was able to be able to reachout and just send that her way,
hopefully to talk about somethings that are going on and to
be able to hear your testimony,michelle, to be an encouragement
(05:24):
to her.
That was cool.
She was an encouragement to methat day.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
That's amazing.
I'm glad you, We go throughthings to help.
I believe to help others.
God can use us for good.
Please encourage her.
if she wants to reach out to metoo, I'm happy to speak with
her.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Oh sure, i'll do that Then.
Yeah, that takes me back to theValley and the Mountain episode
.
Remember we talked about thatstuff too.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That's good We had some good conversations.
It's went better than I thoughtit would.
if I'm being honest, much, muchbetter than I thought.
That's just eye-opening theheartwarming off at the same
time.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We wanted to jump back all the way.
We're going to change theseepisodes up a little bit, but we
decided that we wanted to talkabout the Bible a little bit
more, not all the way, not allthe time, but doing a way that
the three of us can talk aboutthese things.
That's why I said this episodetitle up here and I may have
stole it from you, i don't knowif that's what you were going to
call it or not but in thebeginning and I keep doing that,
(06:28):
i don't know why I keep doingit that way, but that's the
voice I've been doing as I'vebeen practicing this We wanted
to go all the way back toGenesis and talk about the
things that are going on inGenesis.
Genesis chapter 1 is justpacked full of controversial
topics.
Can I say that Genesis 1 isjust a controversial chapter in
(06:50):
the Bible because it talks aboutGod creating the heavens and
the earth.
It talks about God creating theearth.
People have differentperspectives on that of how we
became into existence, how theearth came to existence, how
planets came to existence, whatall it's doing and everything.
Guys, you two know me a littlebit.
You know me a little bit betterthan Michelle, does You know
(07:13):
that I have a very open mind.
I look into a lot of differentperspectives, not only on the
creation of mankind, but thecreation of the planets, all the
solar systems and everythingI've explored, i've read, i've
listened, i've asked questions.
I still can't make more senseof it than just the simplicity
(07:36):
of a creator, a designer,designing this stuff that we see
every single day, or even ourbodies, our lives, everything.
I can't get to a betterconclusion than there was a
designer who did it and then,bam, he wrote about it in
Genesis.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, that's where some of the faith starts, right
off the bat, is Genesis helpsmake sense of this life, because
that's one of the biggerquestions is what's this life
about?
Where did all this stuff comefrom?
You search for answers and Iknow one's like the Big Bang
(08:17):
Theory and we talked about thatand I'm like, well, what can
bang it?
There's nothing there.
It doesn't make sense.
You know what I'm saying.
The Big Bang Theory isapparently like this big
explosion and things went intoplace, but if you look at the
science aspect of it, somethinghas to be there, like oxygen.
There's oxygen, there's water,h2o, there's elements that play
(08:43):
a part of it.
All this stuff couldn't justappear out of nothing.
There has to be something thatmakes things grow, that puts
things into a creative type ofstandpoint.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And and the guy, the guy sat me down one time because
I was, you know, i was thinkingabout these things and he said
Wes, hold out your hand.
So I held out my hand and andthen he put something in my hand
and he and he, you know, hesaid close it.
And so I closed it and He saidwhat did I give you?
and I opened up my hand, ilooked inside of it and I said
you gave me nothing.
(09:16):
There was nothing inside myhand.
And he said that's right.
Therefore, something had toalways be.
And I looked at him and I'mlike I don't understand.
You know, that's what I said.
I said he said he said that'sjust me, i don't understand
those things.
He said Out of nothing, nothingcomes.
Therefore, something had toalways be.
And and I thought about thatand I Wracked my head around it
(09:39):
and I'm like, huh, yeah, therehad to always be something in
order for something to come outof something.
Nothing comes out of nothing,and and so you know that was.
That was simple.
It's like a little simple thingbut it makes you go Oh, it's
that simple, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, you also just think about like so where we get
like morality And we're stufflike that come from, like, how
do we, how do we know you knowwhat's what's good, what's bad,
what you know, those type ofthings.
I know we got a brain, but howdoes the brain know how to
function?
You know?
how does the heart know how tobeat?
(10:14):
How does all these things youknow, even if I'm like the human
body, how does it all work?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
you know perfectly For what, from what we're we're
basically made for well, youknow, honestly and I think I
talked about this previously,but you know, My faith grew
exponentially and it's gonnasound crazy, but when I had my
miscarriage, because To reallywrap your brain around, to see
(10:41):
this tiny little human, thetiniest little fingers and toes,
and then To think about how allof that has to form and how
many things have to go right andhow the you know, the, the
fetus knows how to create, likeyour womb in your womb, that
(11:03):
quickly, how you know your irisworks and your nerves and how
your blood vessels form andbones and what their functions
are like, it is incredible.
So you know, i 100% agree thatyou know, when you really think
about that, like really do youthink this just happens by
(11:25):
accident?
Like That's?
that's what truly made my faithgrow stronger was to say there
has to be something bigger,there has to be, because this
doesn't just happen by accident,it's, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No, i think we can chalk it up to a designer.
I believe that if you have anythoughts other than contrary to
those things, by all means youcan share them with us.
You can find us over on Twitterat finding faith podcast, right
here.
That's how it is finding faithpod.
Finding faith, pod, and you canalso email the show.
How do they do that here?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
That would be finding faith.
Losing sleep at gmailcom.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's right.
You're so correct.
I was putting you to the test.
No, i didn't, i couldn'tremember what it was, or the
better, even the easier way todo that is to just leave a
review or something And you canleave a comment, and whatever
listening platform you like tolisten to the show one, you
could do that there that way aswell.
So a lot of different avenues.
If you want to talk about thesethings, by all means do that,
and and we are happy to acceptAll questions or maybe other
(12:24):
answers I'm a seeker man.
I like to seek, i like to tryto find, and so that's what I
love to do.
We talk about a designer andLet me ask you guys this who
designed the book of Genesis?
who wrote the book of Genesis?
the, either one of you know I.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Think the comment.
Thought is Moses.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Can you do it in that Charlton Heston voice?
No, moses, yeah, moses did, andhe did it with the children of
Israel.
This was like when they werewandering around in the
wilderness after they got letout of Egypt, which that story
is back there at the end ofGenesis, which hopefully will
cover that as well Over due time.
(13:02):
So they, they were wanderingaround and those guys had been
in Egypt.
The children of Israel had been.
God's children had been inEgypt for such a long period of
time, be in bondage there and Idon't know what.
The making a bunch of bricks andeverything is what they were
doing, and essentially, therewere so many generations that
had come and gone that Theystarted asking questions and and
(13:23):
the best way I can figure thisout is they raise their hand and
they're like Moses Where'd wecome from Moses?
how do we get here, moses?
How did that mountain get sohigh, moses?
Where did the Sun come fromMoses?
We're just there just askingthese questions may not been
directly to Moses, it could havebeen to somebody else, but all
these people were wanting theseanswers, just like children.
You want those kind of answers.
(13:44):
Yeah, your kids ever askedthose kind of weird questions
like that where you're like.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You really don't know why the grass.
I'd grown a dog.
Those answers.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I was gonna say that your kids ever ask you why the
grass is green.
And then I just went.
I just thought to myself Oh,why is the grass green?
You?
know, So I guess we all had thekid in us where we want to know
these answers, and so Godrevealed these things to Moses
and he they started writing themdown for everybody to be able
to know and to answer those kindof questions.
(14:15):
So that's what this is all about, and You guys the three of us
we talked about in past episodesGod's rules, god's laws and how
they're there to protect us andand not Be a, you know, driving
force like a mean old God oranything like that on top of us,
but more of a loving, kind Godwho's wanting the best for us
(14:36):
out of this life and wants us tosqueeze all the juice out of
This life that we can, and thatgoes to loving him and to loving
our neighbors as ourself, andThat's why I believe he wrote
the book of Genesis, or had thebook of Genesis written, because
, just as kids ask thosequestions of us And we have to
be patient and answer them, ithink it's an understood,
understood thing that people aregonna ask these kind of
questions, and so we got to givethem the answers.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, and it's, it's helpful, I'll tell you that.
And so you know, diving intoGenesis, the first part, you
know it's, it's prettyenlightening when you think
about you know night and day andyou know dry land and the seas
and just kind of how it allformed, because it does start to
answer those questions And youknow, later on it gets a little
(15:21):
tougher because like genealogy,like I look, it loses me.
It loses me a genealogy.
But I also can understand, youknow back then that it was
almost like the alphabet youknow to them.
Well, they they kind of knewtheir genealogy.
But just starting with you knowhow things came to be formed,
just kind of helps me to imagine, or use my imagination Well,
(15:42):
how that all could have kind oftaken place.
And again you look around theworld and what you have and you
can see places That are kind ofbare and and dry, that that
aren't filled with you knowGrass and and water and lakes
and rivers, and it just kind ofcomes together.
But even like the moon, you cankind of see how that you know
(16:02):
plays out On the moon itself andyou know its purpose is
completely different from fromsomewhere like the earth as well
as the other planet.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know it's cool about talking about these things
is I'll be the first to admit Idon't have all the answers, you
know, and so whenever I look atthis, i think it's a big deal
and and I do I think it's alittle bit weighty.
And putting it on a Podcastinstead of just sitting down and
doing it with a buddy orsomething like that and talking
about these things, it's alittle bit different.
It's a little bit weighty.
This is gonna be in theArchives for a long time And so
(16:31):
I was a little bit nervous abouttalking about this.
But I love studying the book ofGenesis because it's so profound
, and, and in Genesis 1, 1, itsays in the beginning, god
created the heavens and theearth.
God, that's so I would.
That's why we call him God.
It's because that's that's howit is here.
It's like Elohim.
It's actually a plural word andwe'll see that a little bit
(16:51):
later as the chapter unfolds.
How there's more than oneperson kind of here is.
You know, that's that's how I'mgonna put it in my head, how I
make sense of it.
You may be able to make senseof it a little bit different way
, but it's a plurality word,which means there's like more
than one being, and that's wherewe come kind of get the start
of the Trinity.
You know the father, the son,the Holy Spirit, and we'll see
(17:11):
that here as well.
So what do you guys think aboutthe Trinity?
Is that?
that's almost like acontroversial topic too, i
believe.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
It's.
It's kind of hard to fathom Attimes, and I know that was
actually a Question.
I think our daughter, eddie,even asked at some point that my
shell can dive into a bit.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, i, olivia had asked.
You know, how, does you know?
She wanted to understand thedifference and I honestly, to be
completely honest with you, hadno idea How to explain that to
her.
So I asked one of our pastorsat church and she gave me the
analogy of an apple and So I wasexplaining, i started to
(17:54):
explain it to Olivia and she wasjust little and I said It's
like an apple, and she's, andinstantly she's like, say no
more, i understand.
And she's like you know,basically you have this, because
which part is the apple?
Is it the seed?
Is it the fruit part on theinsider, is it the, the outside?
and And it's all the apple.
But you have to have all ofthose pieces to make the one
(18:17):
piece.
But my child understood itbetter than I did before, i even
was explaining it.
So you know it was prettyincredible to Have her.
You know, we say like childrenget things a little better than
we do because theirunderstanding isn't, you know,
kind of twisted.
So Oftentimes, you know, out ofthe mouths of babes come really
(18:37):
amazing things.
But I thought that analogy wasgreat because, if you think
about it, which part is theapple?
Well, the peel, the, the, youknow the sweet part in the
middle, or the seeds, and it allis.
So I think, as far as like theHoly Trinity, there it's all one
, but there are threesignificant pieces.
So it was a good analogy for meto give to her and it helped me
(19:00):
too.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And, and it all has three different roles and a
purpose, like, like the seed isto reproduce, the meat is to, or
the meat of the apple, you knowthe, the part we like, the part
we like to eat.
I think it's called the meat, idon't know.
It's the sweet stuff, that'sgood stuff.
And then the skin is there toprotect it from all the outside
forces.
So exactly all.
And the and the Trinity is thesame way.
It's got all the, all thedifferent aspects of it, the
(19:23):
father, son, holy Spirit.
They all have different roles.
And you talked about the Child,understanding it, the faith of a
child, and I think back toJesus, whenever he his phrase,
whenever he said if you havefaith, like a child, you know
that, that phrase and I Wantedto talk about this a little bit
as we, before we dive into thisor faith, you know we got to
(19:45):
have faith that God created theheavens and the earth, mm-hmm, i
mean, you got to have faith,right.
Right, it's, it's kind of ablind faith.
I'll be the first one to admitit, because we didn't see it
when it happened.
It's the one that makes themost sense to me, but you got to
kind of have blind faith inthat.
And even even the Bible inHebrew, says faith is a
substance of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen.
(20:06):
And No matter what or how youbelieve, we came into existence,
the earth came into existence.
It takes faith, mm-hmm, whetherwhether that's faith in a
designer, a God, or a faith inthe boom boom bang theory, you
know And you got to have faithbecause you weren't there at any
of those things.
So that person's faith that maybelieve in Darwin's theory of
(20:30):
evolution is no different thanmy faith in God.
As far as equality goes, ithink, because neither one of us
actually see it happen.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Right, that's true, and I'm having a struggle with
like evolution though.
So I had my little rain on thebig bang theory.
So if evolution like I've neverseen, like a cat, a kitten like
evolve into a lion, like Anykitten I've seen, stay to stay
the cat, you know it's just, iknow it's just so hard to.
(20:59):
I know that you know the, themind, you know evolves and you
know you can see like athleteslike, for example, like athletes
back in the day Yeah, you know,in the 70s and 80s aren't the
same as you.
The athletes today who traindifferently and you know, feel
their bodies differently, butthey're still like, like humans,
(21:20):
like it wasn't, like theydidn't transform from like an
ape or a gorilla, those type ofsituations.
So it's mentally it's hard forme to fathom that whereas this
makes sense, you know God makessense, a creator that I can't
understand makes sense for allthat we have.
That's so I don't know, socomplex to even think about.
(21:43):
Like that adds up more And whenyou read again the Bible and
the creation, it kind of puts ittogether that this could be
feasible.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And I'll be the first one to admit.
Now let me finish my statement.
I do believe in evolution, okay, but there's a minor evolution
and there's a major evolution,right, the major evolution is
wherever you have the evolutionwhere one species becomes
another species or you know,just complete transformation of,
like holy cow.
Look at that, the thing thatDarwin talks about.
(22:15):
You know, with the missing linkand everything.
Darwin even said himself thatif you do not find a missing
link, my theory which, by theway, it's called a theory, my
theory is useless.
If you never find a missinglink, my theory is useless of
whether it's a fish becoming abird or whatever it is, whatever
his theory of evolution is.
But I do believe in minorevolution, where you know you
(22:37):
take birds or something and yousee the seeds on the Galapagos
Island.
How about that?
I just impressed everybody byknowing the name of a Galapagos
Island.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Perhaps I will too.
That's even more of that.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, don't ask me to drive you there.
I couldn't get you there if Ihad to.
But you see the different sizedseeds there on the island and
this is like this scientificcase study where it's almost
like this little bubble wherethey could put these people or
these animals are there and sothey can go there and they can
study these animals becausethey're really kind of secluded.
And you see the bird sizes.
The beaks of the birds grow orshrink depending on the size of
(23:15):
the seeds from the year prior,because those birds that had to
have smaller beaks because itwas smaller seeds, because the
plants weren't doing as well,they were the ones that were
more fruitful and multipliedmore than the bigger beaks,
bigger beaked birds.
That's tough to say.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
See that guys.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So, but it changes depending upon the environment
that people or the animals arein.
but it's not major evolution,it's just minor evolution within
the same species.
Did I make sense at any of?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
that That's like adaptation You adapt to your
surroundings and such.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, i've adapted, many times to it.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So one of the things I always suggest for people to
do whenever they talk aboutGenesis, or whenever I talk
about Genesis with them a littlebit, is to get out a piece of
paper and don't be small in yourdrawing of this, but you should
draw this the way it reads fromthe book of Genesis.
Okay, you know what I mean Likein the beginning, god created
the heavens and the earth andkind of put on the piece of
paper as well, whatever piece ofpaper it is, and don't do this
(24:18):
while you're driving, if you'relistening to the podcast while
you're driving but just right upthere, right somewhere on the
piece of paper, some questionsthat you have, some people that
you can identify the names ofthings like God.
Right, god is there in thestory, so we could put God there
, find out who else is in thestory.
But also, right now, the youknow, he, just he created the
heavens in the earth.
So it's kind of like settingeverything up.
(24:39):
And then the earth was formlessand void in verse two, and
darkness was over the surface ofthe deep and the spirit of God
was moving over the surface ofthe waters.
Boy, that's, that's kind ofcool Sounded.
I don't know how you guys seethat in your head, but I know
how I see it in my head And it'sone of those slow motion
cameras filming like a raindropdropping to the ground And I
(25:04):
understand there's maybe noteven gravity at this point, but
just how it's like like almostjealous and it just can move and
toss around, but it kind ofstays in its own little, its own
little water shell at the watershell, but you know what I mean
Like it just can get blownaround a little bit or something
I don't know, formless and void.
I've always thought, i'vealways liked that phrase.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I think I don't know.
It's weird.
I almost feel like a mister fog, Yeah like something like a
windy type mist and I don't know.
It's hard to.
It's hard to kind of verbalizethe thought process.
But you just think about, yeah,like a foggy mist and even
(25:47):
almost like a bean, that's likehovering over, that's kind of
the same, like taking a similartype form.
It's not like a physical being,but just like a spiritual being
.
That's just.
I don't know.
It's hard to, it's hard to putin the words.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Well, it's appropriate, probably.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
All right.
So we got the spirit of God.
We have God.
We have the spirit of God andhe's moving over the surface of
the waters.
I think that's the biggest keythat we got to take out of this.
Everything's like water rightnow.
Okay, it's just water.
Then God said let there belight and there was light.
And God saw that the light wasgood and God separated the light
from the darkness and Godcalled the light day and the
darkness he called night Andthere was evening and there was
(26:28):
morning.
One day That's a lot of work inone day, in my opinion.
Right, there is where he neededto take a big break.
Yeah, go ahead and go onvacation right now.
You know how it seems like it'simpossible to do, but for God
nothing is impossible, right.
And so it's really hard to kindof fathom this.
How much work was that?
And then we realized, like fromJohn, chapter one, as it
associates itself with Genesis,chapter one, that it was just
(26:50):
words.
You know, just God spoke thesethings and it happened.
And that's maybe not as muchwork as I think it is, because
I'm speaking into a microphoneand it gets put out there on a
podcast, so it just happens.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, but he's a major, He's a major thing.
But I mean, i think about likethat, even like in our prayers,
like God wants it to be, likehow he can make it be and even
how quickly like things canhappen.
And you see it sometimes whenfolks are praying for healing or
praying for an answered, andall of a sudden, like boom, it's
(27:24):
there.
And that's not always the case,sometimes it's it's long,
sometimes it's delayed, butsometimes that prayer is instant
, answered, like instantly, andyou can just imagine you know
God just speaking into existence, and so why would that be any
different for the, the earth?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Right, that's a good point, all right.
So I don't think this is sunand moon yet.
I think this is just light anddarkness.
Okay, so I don't think the sunand moon is necessarily there, i
don't know.
That part Little confused.
God called the light.
Though we are did that for six.
God said let there be an expansein the midst.
Can I turn the page of my Bible, pierre?
(28:02):
I heard what you said, by theway, where I was listening to
past podcasts, how it soundedlike bags of chips and stuff.
It did sound like that.
I apologize, i apologizeeverybody, but the Doritos were
good.
Let there be an expanse in themidst of the waters and let it
separate the waters from thewaters.
And God made the expanse andseparate the waters which were
(28:24):
below the expanse from thewaters which were above the
expanse.
And it was so, and God calledthe expanse heaven.
And there was evening and therewas morning a second day, all
right.
So if I'm drawing this on mypiece of paper, you got one big
old thing, a big circle, and Igot to do a circle just because
that's how my mind has beenprogrammed all these years, like
(28:45):
a globe kind of a thing, right?
So you got this circle and itwas all water.
And then he said he put anexpanse in the middle of the
water to separate the water fromthe water.
And he's not talking about land, it's sky, it's the heavens.
That's what the expanse is.
So there's water above theheavens and there's water below
(29:06):
the heavens.
All right, are we following itnow?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I kind of want to like take a rocket ship and see
how high it would go and if itwould reach water, and think
about this.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
It's really mind boggling, if you like.
Try it's kind of like when Itry to think about the universe,
like it, it just blows my mind.
So like it's the same.
Same type of thing is just evenmore impressive.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Because, technically saying, there should be water
above, but obviously, like we'vebeen in, like planes, and you
know, we've been above the, theclouds, and there's more,
there's more sky and we have,you know, those that have left
the earth and there's like agalaxy.
So it makes you feel likethere's even more that maybe is
unreachable, that you'rebasically going to run into
(29:58):
another form of water.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
No, you know you're right, and that's the part, that
kind of you know you go.
Okay, wait a minute.
There.
Water above, though, and then.
So so you know, above the earthand water below the, there's
water in that, above thefirmament and water below the
firmament.
But then let me ask you guysthis okay, this is gonna get
into another topic and we thismay be the last topic of the day
, i don't know dinosaurs Thedinosaurs exist.
(30:27):
We see the remnants of it,right?
Okay?
so we see the bones, we see allthat stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I think it depends, because I'm not saying they
don't, because we obviously have, you know, the fossils etc.
But were they like dinosaurs oris that just a name that was
given to them?
because I know, like, forexample, myself, and in reading
through the Bible, i see, likedragon mentioned a lot, or the,
or the dragons, actually thedinosaurs, and they just got got
(30:59):
names dinosaurs and so I don'tknow.
Those are kind of the thoughtprocesses that run through, like
what exactly was it like?
was it a dinosaur, was it adragon?
was it a different being?
and you know, we'll get to thateven with the, the chair bones
and stuff like that as well, i'msure.
But yeah, there were someexistences.
This, you know, was the namechange, was the translation
(31:21):
different, which I see in theBible a lot as well, where one
Greek word, hebrew word, meansthis and that's not what it says
and it's a little twist, canchange.
You know what that is.
So that's my thought ondinosaurs.
I something existed.
You know there's fossils, butwas it a dinosaur?
was it something else with adifferent name?
(31:41):
those type of thing.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I was waiting to see here.
I was waiting here for shelltimed in or not, you know like,
but I so, yes, i agree with youthat word dinosaur maybe didn't
come into existence until then,but we know that if I say, for
simplicity, place big old things, you know I'm talking about
like, yeah, you know, i'mtalking about the big old thing.
So the dinosaurs.
Let me ask you this what diddinosaurs eat?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
everything.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It just depends on which dinosaur right yeah, i
mean, you see some and, again,based off of how they're
portrayed, there were somecarnivores, there were some
herbivores, and so it just alldepends yeah, i think a majority
of them were herbivores, if I'mnot mistaken I could be wrong
on that the, and then there werethe carnivorous ones as well,
but I think a carnivorousdinosaur probably had to eat
(32:32):
another dinosaur in order to behave a full belly, like you
can't.
And the carnivorous dinosaurscould not go around chasing
rabbits, and because it's justfirst of all, i don't know that
it could bend over to get them,but but if they're take a lot of
rabbits to fill up a dinosaur,you know what I mean.
Like it's just so I think youhad to have other dinosaurs and
other for the carnivorousdinosaurs to survive, and I
(32:52):
think that the herbivorious Ithink that word is just made up,
i just made it up dinosaurs hadto have a lot of plants and
have to have those things.
So we haven't seen land comeinto existence yet, but land
ends up getting placed in the,in that little bit of water
that's separated from the waterabove the firmament, right?
(33:13):
so the land gets placed in thewater below the firmament and
that's where the dinosaurs, ifthey were the big old things,
would have ended up living.
And you think about theenvironment that would have been
, with waters above the earthand waters below or you know, on
the earth it would have beenlike a greenhouse effect, you
know.
I mean like a really superhumidity kind of a thing.
(33:36):
You know what I'm talking about.
Like like, if you put the Sunin the middle of that, it just
gets really humid.
So I think that the plant lifewould be able to really just
flourish way back when,especially if we didn't have all
the buildings and everythinglike we have nowadays, but it
really be able to flourish.
So then the herbivore dinosaursare plentiful, the carnivorous
dinosaurs are plentiful, and youand I know that well, i know
(33:59):
anyway that you know there wassomething that happened that
just completely changed some ofthat stuff.
You know, i'm saying likethey're they found like woolly
mammoths frozen in in in in aweird place, like in the
Antarctica, with flowers intheir mouth, with flowers in
their stomach and there.
There's not such a thing thereon the North Pole or wherever it
(34:19):
is, where there is no thoseflowers.
So what?
what happened?
there was something likeinstantaneously that happened
right mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I mean I saw some people you know speak to the the
flooding.
You know, i know we're not intoto Noah, but that's one of
those things as well, where it'slike something would take place
and you look at how likemountains are formed and like
the Grand Canyon, for example,and just how it's all the rock,
as if something just rushedthrough there quickly and rose
(34:50):
quickly and kind of wiped outeverything.
And again, when you think aboutwater being above, i think we
often go to like rain and likerain clouds.
But you know we've been over,you know, if you flown you've
been over rain clouds where youknow a pilot can get out of the
rain.
It would have to be asubstantial amount of water out
(35:11):
of nowhere to take place there.
And so even what?
the dinosaurs, or dragons, oreveryone a column?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
it could have been a similar situation where
something just drastic tookplace and just wiped out their
existence yeah, definitely therewas something there, and so if
we fast forwarded to likeGenesis chapter 6 a little bit
and the flood, and we'll getthere eventually, i believe that
we'll end up getting there.
But if you, if you look thereand God told Noah, you know,
(35:39):
build the big old Ark and andget all the your family and put
them in there and get theanimals two by two and all that
stuff and put them in there.
And then if you look and I'mtrying to find it here because
it's, it's, it's been a minutesince I looked at this look like
in Genesis, chapter 7, verse 12, and it says the rain fell upon
the earth for 40 days and 40nights.
(36:01):
All right, so we see that.
But if you back it up, let'ssee one, two, two verses.
Pier, if you back it up twoverses and start reading there,
you got your Bible with you soyou're talking about the?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
after seven days, the water came all over the earth
yeah, genesis 7, verse 10, read10 and 11 and 12 all together so
after the seven days, the watercame over all the earth and the
600 year of Noah's life, andthe second month of the 17th day
of the month, all the fountainsof the great deep came bursting
through and the windows ofheaven were open and rain came
(36:37):
down on there for 40 days and 40nights you see that and you
know the interesting thing is ithad never rained before this
time never rained.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
That's why they mocked Noah, because he's
building a boat and they're likehey, dude, it never rained,
it's gonna come a flood,everybody's gonna come a flood.
Y'all better prepare.
You know that's what Noah wassaying.
I think those were exact words.
Noah was saying.
He was saying y'all betterprepare, and they were.
They were mocking him becauseit had never rained and and and
not only that, but you knowthere's no flooding, so
everything was contained.
(37:09):
And then it says here that thewindows of heaven, you know the
great burst opened up fromunderneath the land a little bit
there, it feels like.
And then the windows of heavenwere opened up and bam, for 40
days and I don't think that'sjust rain, i think that's the
windows of heaven where we justgot done reading the to me.
Now, this is me.
(37:29):
The firmament separated thewaters above and the waters
below right, and those watersabove the windows of heaven were
opened and it just came a flood.
That's that's how I can pictureit in my head.
That's how I can make sense of,you know, the great flood
that's talked about in so manydifferent societies along.
(37:53):
You know, in in earth, so manydifferent societies talk about
this great big flood that endedup happening, that just flooded
out the earth and that's thebigger.
That's that's how I can makethe sense of it is right there
from Genesis chapters was we'rein Genesis, chapter 7?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
that's how I can make sense of it, i mean it makes
sense and I never really read orthought like that.
But I mean, that's why I'm here,pierre, that's why I'm here
well, even when you think backto, like the Garden of Eden
which I'm sure we'll get into aswell like they were in the
presence of God there and youknow that was a holy, holy place
(38:28):
and they basically were, orit's out there, kicked out, but
there was at some point aconnection to where they could,
they love, but there was a kindof a connection between earth
and heaven when it came to theGarden of Eden.
So what's to stop that fromexisting still?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
well, and not only that, but I mean like pretty
much Genesis is a repeatingthrough Genesis.
It's repeating like all ofhumanity's choice to either
partner with God or reject him.
Right, like you see it play outover and over and over again.
You can either reject hisinstruction or you can partner
(39:08):
with him, and and we, as humans,just choose to follow our own
way.
And you see that from thebeginning.
So it's for me it's sad, likeI'm like man, you know we've had
all of this time to learn fromour mistakes and yet, as humans,
(39:29):
we're still repeating the cycle, and it's sad yeah, it is, it
is, and we even big, and we'reeven warned about it, right,
right, and we're told about itand we still repeat the same
thing.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
We're hardheaded, stubborn people and we ask that
you will please forgive us ofthat.
So you got the waters above theheaven, waters below the
heavens.
Windows of heavens were openedup and the water came flooding
down right.
The environment changes thenAnd we're fast forward and I
know, in our picture we haven'tgot, we haven't drawn this yet,
or anything But the Sun gets putthere in the middle of the
(40:04):
firmament, the moon gets putthere in the middle of the
firmament, but now there's notas much greenhouse effect, if
I'm saying that properly, youknow, like, like it's just going
to change if there's not watersabove the earth and waters
below the earth, if all there isis waters on the earth, it's
going to kind of change thewhole environment.
So maybe, maybe that changeStopped the dinosaurs from being
(40:28):
as plentiful.
You know, maybe, maybe, no, itdid put dinosaurs on the arc.
Maybe put little ones, babyones.
I don't, i don't, i don't, idon't, i don't have all the
answers.
Okay, maybe, maybe they canswim, and he tied them to the
the arc?
I don't.
Maybe they lived outside thearc, but the environment changed
.
So even if they did make itthrough the flood, maybe they
(40:48):
couldn't be as plentiful andProduce and reproduce and and
and so forth.
You know, maybe just thingschanged.
So I don't know that.
That's how I I don't know theanswers, but kind of putting
those pieces together makes themost sense out of it that I can
make.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's it, that's, that's good, that's
(41:08):
good.
All right, back over in Genesis, right, we're, we're, we're.
We're talking about the waterabove the earth, water below the
earth and everything like that.
And here, or Michelle, eitherone of you two, if you don't
mind, how about if you guysstart reading Verse nine, just
start reading verse nine, andI'll stop you somewhere along
the way of Genesis one.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So and God said let the waters under the heaven come
together in one place and Letthe dry land be seen.
And it was so, and God gave thedry land the name of earth and
the waters together in theirplaces were named seas, and God
saw that it was good.
And God said let grass come upon the earth and plants
(41:50):
producing seed and fruit treesgiving fruit In which there is
seed after the sword.
And it was so, and Grass cameup on the earth and every plant
producing seed of sorts andevery tree producing fruit in
which it is, seeds of It sorts,and God saw that it was good.
And there was evening and therewas morning, the third day.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
That's good, that's good, good job.
And the.
What strikes me out at this one, michelle, and correct me if
I'm wrong And you say you saidsort pier at mine says after
their own kind, like theyproduce vegetation after their
own kind.
You know, and and I just itkeeps happening like that.
Whenever you're talking aboutthe animals, even how they
(42:32):
reproduce after their own Kind,that kind of goes into the, the
evolutionary theory that we weretalking about a little bit,
where things become differentthings and everything that, just
Everything goes after its ownkind.
And I think about thereproduction part of things too,
where God is wanting things tobe fruitful and multiply,
michelle, and it's just like theThings go after their own
(42:55):
things or the kinds go aftertheir own kinds.
And it got me thinking aboutanimals.
Even now, i know we got somestrange dogs that end up doing
things every once in a while toother things, but usually a cat
reproduces with a cat, you knowwhat I'm saying.
Or a lion with a lion, and it'sit's still happening today.
You don't see Runoceros lookingat a giraffe and going, hey,
(43:16):
that's a pretty nice long legsright there.
You know, it just doesn't seemto happen that way.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Right, they just inherently know.
And so then that begs thequestion how, if there's not a
God, like, how do they, how dothey know, right, like, and I
think it kind of goes back toLike again in in Genesis, over
and over again, we get theconsistency of God's promise to
rescue and restore.
So if it didn't work that wayand we didn't find our own kind
(43:45):
like, then God's Promise is itthere like?
so I think it's.
It's just, it's Mind-blowing tome when you think like, how,
like you said, how therhinoceros knows to find the
rhinoceros, right, like, how arethey communicating?
like, what is it?
Is it the pheromones?
(44:05):
like, because, because God putsall of that in place.
So just the minute details ofeverything that he does that we
often don't even think about isJust mind-boggling.
Like I said, like when I thinkabout the universe, it's the
same type of thing You know,think about like seeds and trees
and like every year Garden likethey.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
They just reproduce and I mean I know over time
things can take place.
But I mean you can plant alittle seed and, you know, put
it in the ground.
Enough water, enough light, it'sgonna know it's what produce
exactly what it needs to produceAnd it does it over and over
again, like we.
we up here in the Midwest have,you know, all four seasons west
And with that, you see, liketrees, you know, the winter time
(44:51):
just kind of wilt and and die,but come around comes the spring
, they're starting to sproutagain without us doing anything.
We're not touching the treesourselves with a human aspect of
it, they're just growing andblossoming and it's like a cycle
And happens throughout thewhole world.
It doesn't just happen, youknow, here in the United States,
(45:12):
is everywhere This all takesplace.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
And I think about a tomato plant.
It produces tomatoes, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It doesn't.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
It doesn't produce cucumbers and the cucumbers
produce cucumbers.
Yeah, that's what it does,right, but but we can make, we
can make, we've, we figured itout, we've become little gods to
some degree where we can makesome hybrids of things.
You know what I mean.
Like, like, we can change theselittle, we can, we can tweak
these things just a little bitto try and figure out A way to
(45:42):
get a lemon lemon to grow on anorange tree.
You know right.
But it wasn't intended to bethat way, mm-hmm, but we have
made it that way.
We've decided to change theplan.
We man has decided to kind oftweak it to fit our own needs,
or maybe, maybe even we don'tneed it to happen that way.
(46:04):
We just want to see if we can.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
You know complex.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, yeah, it is that God complex, but I'm gonna
go deep right here.
Y'all don't hate me, okay,y'all don't hate me.
If you, if you do, you canreach me over on Twitter at Pee
Wee 31.
But I think about, i Just thinkabout society today and We've,
(46:30):
we've, we've changed things somuch to fit our desires, we've
tweaked it so much to notnecessarily figure out a way to
produce with our own kind, andThis is gonna be controversial.
Y'all don't hate me, i'm justthinking out loud.
But this was Pride Month, right,but it was Pride Month, and
(46:53):
I've seen a lot of differentparades going up and down
Different places and I don'tknow what to believe because I
didn't necessarily see that manyof them here where I live.
But I, i see women dressinglike men and men dressing like
women.
I see men dressing like vulgarmen out in front of children,
and And I see parents bringingchildren to these things to let
(47:15):
them see this.
And I'm personally You all knowmy background and if you don't,
you can go listen to pastpodcast.
I've I've seen a lot of thingsthat I never should have seen
and it ingrained in my mind andit ingrained in my head to where
it's.
It's like one of those shockingmoments that I can't ever
forget, but I wish I'd ever saw.
And for me as a parent, i alwaysthink that my number one job is
(47:36):
to protect my child's innocencefor as long as possible.
Right, i need to protect mychild's innocence as long as
possible, just like you talkedabout, pierre.
I hope we all do get to go backto the Garden of Eden at some
point into heaven, where we willbe innocent, there will be no
sin, we will be no night there,we'll be able to have things the
way we did as a child andlooked at life as maybe a child
(47:57):
like way.
So when I see children at theseevents, i'm going.
There is no possible way thatthat these grown adults Should
be doing this in front ofchildren.
There is no way that I wouldever dream of bringing my
children to that and look, theseare your kids, this is my.
I got my kids, you got yourkids.
We can both screw them up,however We want to.
(48:18):
Okay, that's our inalienableright for having children.
But I go back to this littletime here Where animals were
reproducing with their own kind.
Vegetation was reproducing withits own kind.
If, if everything moves intothis Pride area, then things are
(48:40):
going to stop reproducing.
And if they do reproduce, maybethey won't be reproducing with
their own kind, and I don't knowwhat came first, the chicken or
the egg, but we Maybe we changethings to fit our own desires,
more so than God changing thingsalong the way.
You know, i'm trying to besensitive as I talk and I'm
(49:03):
trying to be kind of blunt atthe same time.
So forgive me if I'm too blunt,but I just, i just don't know
what ended up happening first,peering all this and and.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
I'll throw it over to you, so I can just sit back and
so I think I Think that'sthroughout, though, and I think
I think pride always getsbrought up, but People don't
bring up divorce, people don'tbring up adultery, and maybe
it's because it's not thrown inyour face.
So my thought of if it's sin,it's all sin, and I'm kind of of
(49:39):
an opinion that Christians likehate gays, hate the homosexual
community just by the way theyreact to them.
If these are still human beingsthat were called to love and
neighbors that were called tolove, we can't do so, not
(50:02):
accepting them as humans.
It's one thing to accept thesin itself, it's another to
accept them as humans, and Ithink we struggle with that, and
I think that pride is a veryinteresting name that goes about
it both from the standpointthat it's in your face and
(50:23):
there's a prideful impact to it,to where it's gonna be in your
face.
But on the flip side, i thinkthose outside of there are too
prideful to find a way to acceptthe people themselves.
Me as a sinner, i don't findJesus if someone didn't accept
(50:44):
me and show me Jesus.
So I don't know how those underpride can find Jesus themselves
if those who say you knowthey're Jesus followers can't
figure out a way to accept them,just as we've accepted those
that are divorced, those thatare committing adultery, those
(51:05):
have even committed murder tosome extent.
These are all sins.
So where do we go about theacceptance of the people and
doing what God says to do aboveall else as loving Him and
loving your neighbors asyourself?
Speaker 3 (51:21):
Great points Here and I have had, very like, so many
conversations about this and Ihave struggled with it because,
like you know, i have familymembers who are on that side of
this And you know you still wantto love them and I see the good
that many of them have done andlove God, and so you know it's
(51:47):
tough and I'm with you, though,on this West where it's like,
first of all and I'm not judginghere, it's just something that
I thought of and this isprobably gonna be really
controversial too but it'scalled pride.
But pride is a deadly sin.
So that kind of struck me.
(52:08):
It's not to say you know that,that's why, or anything like
that.
I'm not saying that, but for meI'm with you on the
reproductive part, becausethat's kind of the argument back
and forth up here, and I've hadnot argument but just
discussion.
But for me I don't think it'sup to us to judge.
(52:28):
I will agree with him on thatand that we are called to love
like Jesus, and Jesus loved thesinners and those who were
rejected and despised.
So I agree with himwholeheartedly that we are
called to love one another, nomatter what.
What makes it tough for me is ifI really try to look at it
fundamentally in God's intentfor us, if it's not a man and a
(52:54):
woman and you can't reproducewhich I believe God wants us to,
then that raises that questionlike, is it right?
But I also believe, like I'mdivorced.
So like my whole struggle withgetting my divorce, as I made
the biggest promise there was toGod that I'm going to be with
(53:16):
this person for my life, and somy struggle in leaving that
relationship was breaking thatpromise.
But ultimately I had to getdown to.
The fundamental question wasfor me do I believe that God
wants better for me or is thiswhat he has?
Because ultimately I'm stillhuman and I can make an error in
(53:38):
judgment and I honestly believethat was my human error in
judgment and God had more for me.
So, but it's still something Ihave to reconcile with him when
my judgment day comes.
So it doesn't mean that I haveto believe and agree with
everything everyone else does.
That's not up to me to judge but, i, agree with you, wes as well
(54:01):
, but I want to protect mychild's innocence and mine too
in some shape, shape or form.
So I mean, i don't know This iswhere Pierre and I talk about
this a lot because, quitehonestly, i think we both
struggle with it a lot and howthe church reacts, and he and I
have different feelings about it, and I think that everybody
(54:25):
probably does.
But ultimately, what I comedown to for me is number one
it's up to us to love oneanother, as Jesus did, and
number two, it's not up to us tojudge others.
But that said, it's also toughas a Christian, because where do
you draw that line betweenstanding up for what we believe
(54:49):
the Bible says And I say webelieve because it's
interpretation sometimes andletting everyone have their
freedom to do what they believeis correct.
So I don't know, it's a toughone, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Hey, listen, and we've said that and we're not
taking a tough stance, we'retrying to talk about tough
topics.
That's what we try to do and toget the different And that's
what I said earlier And it'slook, we knew we were gonna talk
about Genesis.
Michelle and Pierre didn't knowwhere I was going with that,
and I really didn't know where Iwas going with that necessarily
.
But as I prepared for this alittle bit and just had these
(55:29):
thoughts marinating in my head,that was a thought that went
through my mind.
And it may not have wentthrough my mind unless it was a
June and it was Pride month,right, and so maybe it didn't.
But I saw something the otherday on Twitter and I found it
again while you were talking,michelle, and I'm going to be.
I think I may be a genius afteryou guys may say Wes, you are a
(55:50):
pretty smart guy.
That's what you may say afterthis, and some of you may not.
But I talked about EdwardBernays a couple of episodes ago
, the father of advertisement,and I talked about how he helped
women end up smoking and stuffand how he made smoking end up
being a fashionable thing, andwe have that still advertising
genius and prowess here nowadayswhere it influences people to
(56:12):
do all those things right.
And so I go back and I thinkabout different things And one
of the things I think about islike how many people did I know
that would have participated inthe Pride month whenever I was
growing up as a kid?
Now, i knew some people, right,but they were all older people,
not necessarily anybody any ofmy peers, and I can understand
(56:32):
why not if they were, iunderstand that.
But this was an interestingstudy that I saw, and it was by
a statistic is what it was byAnd it talked about the
different.
It has these little bar graphsand I'm not going to be able to
explain a lot of these things.
But Generation Z, starting therein the year 1997, people that
(56:54):
were born between 1997 and 2004.
Like, they are the biggest onesthat identify as LGBT right now
in today's society, 20%, 20% ofthose people that were pulled a
US adult identify as LGBT.
Isn't that something?
I mean that seems like.
There you go down to the peoplethat were born before 1946,
(57:17):
right, 1946, as of today, it is1.7%.
Baby boomers, people that wereborn kind of between the years
1946 and 1964, it is 2.7%.
Generation X, 1965, 1980, it's3.3%.
And millennials which were bornbetween 1981 and 1996, it's
11.2%.
(57:38):
You can kind of see thesegraphs.
They all stay the same, exceptfor that Generation Z where over
a three year period it went 10,five points higher.
It went 5% higher.
And I gotta say I wonder okay,are we getting influenced by the
advertisers, by the things wesee?
(57:59):
And that's why that peoplemaybe identify as that more so,
because it's the fashionablething to do or it's a cool thing
to do?
I don't know.
I don't know that.
I know that my grandparents, oreven myself, who watches
Matlock, i don't see a lot ofthose people on the television
show, matlock, you know.
But how many people do you seeon the television shows that
(58:20):
maybe Disney puts out or otherpeople put out?
I don't know, because I don'twatch those things, so I'm not
necessarily sure It goes back toone of our episodes of options.
Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah, our first episode of options.
Like once it's an option, it'sin your head right, like it's an
option now.
So if someone isn't happy withwho they are, well, now I have a
different option And but again,ultimately, i think that the
(58:53):
big for me, the big lesson inthis is it's not okay to hate
period Like it's for us.
We need to love one another andwe're not gonna reach people if
we hate them.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
I think that's what even triggers some of it.
I'm sure because I've hadfriends, i've had co-workers et
cetera and there's like a lackof acceptance is often what a
lot of it comes down to And Idon't know where the breakdown
is.
I haven't lived that life, butsociety always tries to tell you
(59:32):
what you have to be, what youcan and can't do, and when that
happens, i mean you're gonnahave rebellion for one, You're
gonna have people that do itjust so they can rebel and kind
of be against the norm, butyou're gonna have people that
feel they need to do it in orderto be accepted.
For example, like growing up,little boys don't play with
(59:57):
Barbie, dolls et cetera.
That was just the thing thatthey go around.
Boys don't play with dolls.
But I mean if you're a boy thatlikes dolls, then like dolls.
But if that's what you're beingtold, you see little girls
playing with dolls, okay, then Iwanna be, you know, a little
girl.
I wanna be able to do what Ifind fun And society tells you
(01:00:22):
that you can't do that becauseyou gotta be strong, you gotta
be tough, you gotta be bold, andI mean you do need strength,
but I just feel like that can.
That just turns people off Andthey feel like they're not happy
.
They can't be who they want tobe.
So they try to change it andthey try to be something else
And, honestly, oftentimes thatend up being happy as well,
(01:00:45):
because they're searching in thewrong places.
But I just think that sometimesus as a society put so much
pressure on what you can andcan't do.
That's outside the Bible.
These are man-made type ofrules and it just starts to
bother people And they start togo through their own changes,
trying to figure out who theyare as an individual when
(01:01:08):
they're young, when they'reteenagers, because they don't
know they wanna do certainthings and they're being told oh
no, that's not for you.
Who's to tell me what's not forme, except for God?
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Well and honestly, pierre and I've had this
conversation so many times thatit isn't lost on us too that not
too many years ago it wouldhave been not looked upon very
well for us to be married.
So it's kind of eye-opening andyou know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
And so I even use that.
So let's say we were in asociety where I love my wife,
i'm black, she's white, andthey're saying that I can't love
her.
I'm gonna have a problem withthat And I know that's kind of
the way of homosexual andwhether you know, since this is
within the Bible, we're okay,but since Leviticus, you know,
(01:02:04):
has a portion in the Bible, it'sso wrong And there's no sin.
You know, in the love towardsmy wife There's no like hate.
I can't help.
You know the way I feel abouther And I feel like that could
be a similar situation forothers And if it was wrong, like
what would I do?
is what I think.
So if it came out that meloving my wife, that she's white
(01:02:27):
and I'm black, was wrong, iwould basically be in the same
situation where the world andwhether it be Christians,
whoever telling me I can't dothis God says is wrong.
But I'm watching a world fullof many things that God says is
wrong, that God's people areaccepting or saying at least
(01:02:50):
they repent and it's okay Andthat's it's not okay for me to
simply love someone else.
And you talk about reproducing.
I mean, there are gay couplesthat are better parents than
heterosexual couples And again,i'm not sure what makes it right
or wrong, but just keep that inmind.
There was a heterosexualrelationship that took place and
(01:03:13):
they threw the kid to the curbor didn't want the kid, and it
took a gay couple to take thatchild into a loving home that
they didn't get from the otherside.
So there's just so manydifferent ins and outs and
that's why I don't really worryabout it.
I let people be what they wannabe and love what they wanna
love, and I'm gonna love them inreturn, cause that's what I get
(01:03:35):
out of the Bible.
Jesus wasn't in there withpriests and pastors and
Christians.
He was in there with taxcollectors and sinners and
prostitutes.
That's who he was doing lifewith.
So that's who I'm gonna do lifewith.
Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
I'm not a prostitute, by the way.
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Well, there's so many things that Pierre said good
job, Pierre, you did a good jobbreaking it down Very
passionately.
Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
I'm gonna put a mic, drop a little bit.
Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
I'm just saying No, no, that's very passionate there
And I appreciate that, hey.
So you got your black and yourwhite, did you guys had a kid
together?
Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
What color was the kid?
Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
She's both.
Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Cream like.
Is it a cream tannish kind ofcolor?
Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
She's a light brown and she's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
No, no, listen, that's what, yeah, and you know
cause you guys came together,like your own kind, to come
together there and produce child.
One of my thoughts is how doeshomosexuality continue to
increase?
Because if a homosexual couplecomes together, what color kid
(01:04:38):
do they have?
And if it's about genes, and ifit's about you know our body
types and reproducing and youthink about, like the Galapagos
Island stuff again you thinkabout that, wouldn't it become
more extinual instead ofincreasing?
(01:04:59):
And I think about that, iwonder about that.
So if homosexuals can'tnecessarily reproduce after
their own kind, then how is itcontinuing to increase?
It's gotta be outside forcesinstead of inside forces, unless
we're inserting chemicals,maybe, or something like that to
(01:05:22):
change things on the inside ofour bodies.
I don't know.
Those are thoughts, listen, ihave thoughts, okay, and I don't
know how it continues toincrease, but yet it can't
increase naturally.
So, look, we're trying tohammer some things out, we're
trying to talk about some things, and these things are really
(01:05:44):
tough And I wondered whether ornot we should talk about these
things a little bit, guys, i'mbeing honest with you.
And then, when I did stumbleacross the suicide, the abortion
episode, i said, well, we'vealready talked about some stuff,
yeah, so maybe we can talkabout some other stuff, and I
love what you said, though,pierre, about loving people and
(01:06:04):
who Jesus was with and what hispurpose was, and it was.
Spreading God's love is what itwas, and I think that that is
the foremost and utmost thingthat we need to do, and that's
how we're gonna make this worlda better place.
If I'm gonna steal a phrase,there.
Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Hey, that's my goal.
Like I'm trying to get toheaven.
I hope as many of you come withme as possible, but after any
day, i'm all I can control meAnd I'm understanding the Bible.
La, i understand it.
And again, these were similarscenarios when it came to rules
and laws.
And Jesus is like, hey, youdon't get it, and even mentioned
(01:06:44):
again above all else.
So that's what I'm doing.
I'm doing above all else, causethat's what the Bible told me
to do.
Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
And look, we may not get it either.
I may not get it.
I understand that I may not getit.
I'm an open mind.
I think about things, but youcan tell I thought about these
things.
It's not just stuff that I'mrattling off here.
I thought about this stuff.
It perplexes me, it keeps me upat night.
That's why we started thispodcast, finding Faith and
Losing Sleep podcast so we couldtalk about these things.
And I know Pierre's still gonnatalk to me after this.
I know Michelle's still gonnatalk to me after this.
I know I have friends that I'veasked to listen to this, who
(01:07:14):
are homosexuals, and they'restill gonna talk to me after
this, because we've talked aboutthese things And I'm still
waiting for good answers thatsatisfy me, and so I'm putting
it out there.
If you have a good answer forme, by all means you can reach
us at findingfaithpod over onTwitter, at
findingfaithlosingsleep atgmailcom.
Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
I've come close to saying that right here, Before
the email address it's justfindingfaithlosingsleep at
gmailcom.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Or you can reach us over there on whatever listening
platform you like to listen tous on, by giving us some ratings
.
there We ask that you give usfive stars.
We don't want you to lie, butif you got a lie, just no five
stars.
or whatever stars you want to,or however you rate those things
I don't even know.
I don't know that I've everrated anything.
Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
But you can reach us over there.
We're at five right now.
So I mean thanks to, we'restill at five.
I think we got 140 ratingsthere.
Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
So that's, great.
Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
We reached what 5,000 downloads recently.
So I mean just thanks toeveryone that tunes in.
Hopefully that continues as wecontinue to dive into some of
these tough topics.
But even if it doesn't, youknow we're doing this for God
and hoping to reach us some ofyou.
Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
But just adds up there on our program, but you
can leave a comment.
You can leave a comment overthere as well.
That's cool, though 5,000 isfine.
So you can leave a comment overthere as well.
If you want to reach us Andlook, please, we're trying to
say this stuff out of love.
We ask that you'll try to dothe same thing.
But the thing we always askeverybody is you pray for us and
we will pray for you.
Thank you.
It's time to wake up and pray up here on the Finding
Faith and Losing Sleep podcast,in the beginning, episode f 18.
I think I think it's episode 18.
Pierre No not 18.
How many, i think we're at 16.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is 16.
Well, there's sixes and eights.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Well, there's sixes and eights, all in the beginning
, episode 16.
How about that?
I did that pretty well.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
You start it and you start that way all the time, but
somehow you start up Michelle.
this time around She might jump.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That's fun.
Hey, i'm Wesley's.
What are your hosts?
at Lofen and over on Twitter,pierre is talking.
He is the producerextraordinaire, the guy that
kind of runs the ship here.
I'm sorry that you have to dothat, pierre, because I know
that I can get off kilter alittle bit sometimes and you
probably take a lot of heat fordoing that, pierre.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No, it works out well .
We have another pod togetherthat you kind of produce.
It's just kind of flipped overhere.
You got your moments, but I canpush through and edit what I
need to if necessary.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
He is at Peewee31 over on Twitter.
At Peewee31 on Twitter, hiswife joins us on this podcast.
Pierre talked about a sportspodcast.
Him and I do This one FindingFaith, losing Sleep podcast.
His wife joins us.
We thought, guys, i listened topast episodes.
Since the last time we talked,i've been listening to some past
episodes.
At one time I thought, michelle, that you were going to be on
(01:36):
this podcast to kind of separatePierre and I from talking about
things, because we talk aboutsome controversial topics.
Then Pierre said no, i thinkI'm supposed to be separating
you two is what I said.
That is Michelle.
At PAC 411.
Go PAC, go 411.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That is correct, Wes, but I'm not even sure about
that.
I think sometimes you separatePierre and I.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It gives me trouble.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
We are an everyday podcast just for everyday
listeners.
None of us have gone to atheological school, no seminary.
We haven't done anything.
We have studied the Bible,though.
We've talked about thingsbiblically, but also just life
issues, and trying to cometogether on all the different
topics.
Sometimes we've got to agree todisagree.
The reason why the three of ustogether work out so well, i
(02:20):
believe, is because we all havethree different backgrounds.
We all have three differentstyles of life going on.
I'm a Southern guy, those guysare in the Midwest, they're
married.
I'm married.
We've got a lot of differentperspectives.
It's cool to have us cometogether and to talk about these
things, guys.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, it's nice.
It's just good to shareperspective, because the Bible
is a lot.
I think that we talked abouthow we all kind of get different
things from it.
We all can interpret the Bibledifferently.
It's good to talk it outbecause I think that's the case
with many listeners They havetheir own opinions formed or
(03:01):
they get something different outof it.
Sometimes it makes you thinkand kind of ponder what it means
, what the context could havebeen back in those years and
things along those lines.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Sometimes it can just be flat out intimidating.
For me, it's overwhelming.
What I mean by intimidating isI get overwhelmed by it
sometimes.
Maybe that's where I feelintimidated by it.
For me, it helps tremendouslyto be able to talk through it,
because that's how I learnedbest.
(03:33):
Hopefully, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You said the Bible.
The Bible is intimidating orjust it has a lot of different
topics in it and everything likethat Life does too.
Life throws a lot of differenttopics our way.
I went all the way back to thebeginning and started listening
to those episodes because theyhave staying power.
It's probably not somethingthat you can't go back and
listen to the first one andlisten all the way through to
(03:56):
catch up to this one withoutpulling something out of it,
because it's not necessarilytrending topics.
There are solid topics thateverybody struggles with, but we
even talked about that That oneepisode.
We talked about suicide andabortion.
I was like we did talk aboutthat.
I forget about these things,but man, that's kind of
controversial stuff.
We did it in a way that I wouldthink would be pleasing to our
(04:19):
Father in heaven.
I thought we did a good job intalking about that, discussing
it with open minds and openhearts and trying to understand
all the different perspectives.
That's what we need today, ibelieve.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that's what we're hoping to do, because they
can be difficult subjects.
Just talking through it andhopefully the Lord has his hands
on this and he speaks throughus and it comes through the
microphone.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Oh no, hey, there was a lady, a young lady, who
approached me.
I've known her through work alittle bit and everything.
We've known each other throughchurch, league, softball and
stuff.
Her husband plays softball, iplay softball.
Our circle started getting alittle bit tighter.
She came to me and she asked mefor prayer one day and she told
(05:04):
me what was going on.
I told her, yeah, i would.
Then, michelle, it's somethingsimilar to medical things that
you were going through at onetime.
so I said, hey, i got thispodcast.
I was able to be able to reachout and just send that her way,
hopefully to talk about somethings that are going on and to
be able to hear your testimony,michelle, to be an encouragement
(05:24):
to her.
That was cool.
She was an encouragement to methat day.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
That's amazing.
I'm glad you, We go throughthings to help.
I believe to help others.
God can use us for good.
Please encourage her.
if she wants to reach out to metoo, I'm happy to speak with
her.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Oh sure, i'll do that Then.
Yeah, that takes me back to theValley and the Mountain episode
.
Remember we talked about thatstuff too.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That's good We had some good conversations.
It's went better than I thoughtit would.
if I'm being honest, much, muchbetter than I thought.
That's just eye-opening theheartwarming off at the same
time.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We wanted to jump back all the way.
We're going to change theseepisodes up a little bit, but we
decided that we wanted to talkabout the Bible a little bit
more, not all the way, not allthe time, but doing a way that
the three of us can talk aboutthese things.
That's why I said this episodetitle up here and I may have
stole it from you, i don't knowif that's what you were going to
call it or not but in thebeginning and I keep doing that,
(06:28):
i don't know why I keep doingit that way, but that's the
voice I've been doing as I'vebeen practicing this We wanted
to go all the way back toGenesis and talk about the
things that are going on inGenesis.
Genesis chapter 1 is justpacked full of controversial
topics.
Can I say that Genesis 1 isjust a controversial chapter in
(06:50):
the Bible because it talks aboutGod creating the heavens and
the earth.
It talks about God creating theearth.
People have differentperspectives on that of how we
became into existence, how theearth came to existence, how
planets came to existence, whatall it's doing and everything.
Guys, you two know me a littlebit.
You know me a little bit betterthan Michelle, does You know
(07:13):
that I have a very open mind.
I look into a lot of differentperspectives, not only on the
creation of mankind, but thecreation of the planets, all the
solar systems and everythingI've explored, i've read, i've
listened, i've asked questions.
I still can't make more senseof it than just the simplicity
(07:36):
of a creator, a designer,designing this stuff that we see
every single day, or even ourbodies, our lives, everything.
I can't get to a betterconclusion than there was a
designer who did it and then,bam, he wrote about it in
Genesis.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, that's where some of the faith starts, right
off the bat, is Genesis helpsmake sense of this life, because
that's one of the biggerquestions is what's this life
about?
Where did all this stuff comefrom?
You search for answers and Iknow one's like the Big Bang
(08:17):
Theory and we talked about thatand I'm like, well, what can
bang it?
There's nothing there.
It doesn't make sense.
You know what I'm saying.
The Big Bang Theory isapparently like this big
explosion and things went intoplace, but if you look at the
science aspect of it, somethinghas to be there, like oxygen.
There's oxygen, there's water,h2o, there's elements that play
(08:43):
a part of it.
All this stuff couldn't justappear out of nothing.
There has to be something thatmakes things grow, that puts
things into a creative type ofstandpoint.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And and the guy, the guy sat me down one time because
I was, you know, i was thinkingabout these things and he said
Wes, hold out your hand.
So I held out my hand and andthen he put something in my hand
and he and he, you know, hesaid close it.
And so I closed it and He saidwhat did I give you?
and I opened up my hand, ilooked inside of it and I said
you gave me nothing.
(09:16):
There was nothing inside myhand.
And he said that's right.
Therefore, something had toalways be.
And I looked at him and I'mlike I don't understand.
You know, that's what I said.
I said he said he said that'sjust me, i don't understand
those things.
He said Out of nothing, nothingcomes.
Therefore, something had toalways be.
And and I thought about thatand I Wracked my head around it
(09:39):
and I'm like, huh, yeah, therehad to always be something in
order for something to come outof something.
Nothing comes out of nothing,and and so you know that was.
That was simple.
It's like a little simple thingbut it makes you go Oh, it's
that simple, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, you also just think about like so where we get
like morality And we're stufflike that come from, like, how
do we, how do we know you knowwhat's what's good, what's bad,
what you know, those type ofthings.
I know we got a brain, but howdoes the brain know how to
function?
You know?
how does the heart know how tobeat?
(10:14):
How does all these things youknow, even if I'm like the human
body, how does it all work?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
you know perfectly For what, from what we're we're
basically made for well, youknow, honestly and I think I
talked about this previously,but you know, My faith grew
exponentially and it's gonnasound crazy, but when I had my
miscarriage, because To reallywrap your brain around, to see
(10:41):
this tiny little human, thetiniest little fingers and toes,
and then To think about how allof that has to form and how
many things have to go right andhow the you know, the, the
fetus knows how to create, likeyour womb in your womb, that
(11:03):
quickly, how you know your irisworks and your nerves and how
your blood vessels form andbones and what their functions
are like, it is incredible.
So you know, i 100% agree thatyou know, when you really think
about that, like really do youthink this just happens by
(11:25):
accident?
Like That's?
that's what truly made my faithgrow stronger was to say there
has to be something bigger,there has to be, because this
doesn't just happen by accident,it's, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No, i think we can chalk it up to a designer.
I believe that if you have anythoughts other than contrary to
those things, by all means youcan share them with us.
You can find us over on Twitterat finding faith podcast, right
here.
That's how it is finding faithpod.
Finding faith, pod, and you canalso email the show.
How do they do that here?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
That would be finding faith.
Losing sleep at gmailcom.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's right.
You're so correct.
I was putting you to the test.
No, i didn't, i couldn'tremember what it was, or the
better, even the easier way todo that is to just leave a
review or something And you canleave a comment, and whatever
listening platform you like tolisten to the show one, you
could do that there that way aswell.
So a lot of different avenues.
If you want to talk about thesethings, by all means do that,
and and we are happy to acceptAll questions or maybe other
(12:24):
answers I'm a seeker man.
I like to seek, i like to tryto find, and so that's what I
love to do.
We talk about a designer andLet me ask you guys this who
designed the book of Genesis?
who wrote the book of Genesis?
the, either one of you know I.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Think the comment.
Thought is Moses.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Can you do it in that Charlton Heston voice?
No, moses, yeah, moses did, andhe did it with the children of
Israel.
This was like when they werewandering around in the
wilderness after they got letout of Egypt, which that story
is back there at the end ofGenesis, which hopefully will
cover that as well Over due time.
(13:02):
So they, they were wanderingaround and those guys had been
in Egypt.
The children of Israel had been.
God's children had been inEgypt for such a long period of
time, be in bondage there and Idon't know what.
The making a bunch of bricks andeverything is what they were
doing, and essentially, therewere so many generations that
had come and gone that Theystarted asking questions and and
(13:23):
the best way I can figure thisout is they raise their hand and
they're like Moses Where'd wecome from Moses?
how do we get here, moses?
How did that mountain get sohigh, moses?
Where did the Sun come fromMoses?
We're just there just askingthese questions may not been
directly to Moses, it could havebeen to somebody else, but all
these people were wanting theseanswers, just like children.
You want those kind of answers.
(13:44):
Yeah, your kids ever askedthose kind of weird questions
like that where you're like.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You really don't know why the grass.
I'd grown a dog.
Those answers.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I was gonna say that your kids ever ask you why the
grass is green.
And then I just went.
I just thought to myself Oh,why is the grass green?
You?
know, So I guess we all had thekid in us where we want to know
these answers, and so Godrevealed these things to Moses
and he they started writing themdown for everybody to be able
to know and to answer those kindof questions.
(14:15):
So that's what this is all about, and You guys the three of us
we talked about in past episodesGod's rules, god's laws and how
they're there to protect us andand not Be a, you know, driving
force like a mean old God oranything like that on top of us,
but more of a loving, kind Godwho's wanting the best for us
(14:36):
out of this life and wants us tosqueeze all the juice out of
This life that we can, and thatgoes to loving him and to loving
our neighbors as ourself, andThat's why I believe he wrote
the book of Genesis, or had thebook of Genesis written, because
, just as kids ask thosequestions of us And we have to
be patient and answer them, ithink it's an understood,
understood thing that people aregonna ask these kind of
questions, and so we got to givethem the answers.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, and it's, it's helpful, I'll tell you that.
And so you know, diving intoGenesis, the first part, you
know it's, it's prettyenlightening when you think
about you know night and day andyou know dry land and the seas
and just kind of how it allformed, because it does start to
answer those questions And youknow, later on it gets a little
(15:21):
tougher because like genealogy,like I look, it loses me.
It loses me a genealogy.
But I also can understand, youknow back then that it was
almost like the alphabet youknow to them.
Well, they they kind of knewtheir genealogy.
But just starting with you knowhow things came to be formed,
just kind of helps me to imagine, or use my imagination Well,
(15:42):
how that all could have kind oftaken place.
And again you look around theworld and what you have and you
can see places That are kind ofbare and and dry, that that
aren't filled with you knowGrass and and water and lakes
and rivers, and it just kind ofcomes together.
But even like the moon, you cankind of see how that you know
(16:02):
plays out On the moon itself andyou know its purpose is
completely different from fromsomewhere like the earth as well
as the other planet.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know it's cool about talking about these things
is I'll be the first to admit Idon't have all the answers, you
know, and so whenever I look atthis, i think it's a big deal
and and I do I think it's alittle bit weighty.
And putting it on a Podcastinstead of just sitting down and
doing it with a buddy orsomething like that and talking
about these things, it's alittle bit different.
It's a little bit weighty.
This is gonna be in theArchives for a long time And so
(16:31):
I was a little bit nervous abouttalking about this.
But I love studying the book ofGenesis because it's so profound
, and, and in Genesis 1, 1, itsays in the beginning, god
created the heavens and theearth.
God, that's so I would.
That's why we call him God.
It's because that's that's howit is here.
It's like Elohim.
It's actually a plural word andwe'll see that a little bit
(16:51):
later as the chapter unfolds.
How there's more than oneperson kind of here is.
You know, that's that's how I'mgonna put it in my head, how I
make sense of it.
You may be able to make senseof it a little bit different way
, but it's a plurality word,which means there's like more
than one being, and that's wherewe come kind of get the start
of the Trinity.
You know the father, the son,the Holy Spirit, and we'll see
(17:11):
that here as well.
So what do you guys think aboutthe Trinity?
Is that?
that's almost like acontroversial topic too, i
believe.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
It's.
It's kind of hard to fathom Attimes, and I know that was
actually a Question.
I think our daughter, eddie,even asked at some point that my
shell can dive into a bit.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, i, olivia had asked.
You know, how, does you know?
She wanted to understand thedifference and I honestly, to be
completely honest with you, hadno idea How to explain that to
her.
So I asked one of our pastorsat church and she gave me the
analogy of an apple and So I wasexplaining, i started to
(17:54):
explain it to Olivia and she wasjust little and I said It's
like an apple, and she's, andinstantly she's like, say no
more, i understand.
And she's like you know,basically you have this, because
which part is the apple?
Is it the seed?
Is it the fruit part on theinsider, is it the, the outside?
and And it's all the apple.
But you have to have all ofthose pieces to make the one
(18:17):
piece.
But my child understood itbetter than I did before, i even
was explaining it.
So you know it was prettyincredible to Have her.
You know, we say like childrenget things a little better than
we do because theirunderstanding isn't, you know,
kind of twisted.
So Oftentimes, you know, out ofthe mouths of babes come really
(18:37):
amazing things.
But I thought that analogy wasgreat because, if you think
about it, which part is theapple?
Well, the peel, the, the, youknow the sweet part in the
middle, or the seeds, and it allis.
So I think, as far as like theHoly Trinity, there it's all one
, but there are threesignificant pieces.
So it was a good analogy for meto give to her and it helped me
(19:00):
too.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And, and it all has three different roles and a
purpose, like, like the seed isto reproduce, the meat is to, or
the meat of the apple, you knowthe, the part we like, the part
we like to eat.
I think it's called the meat, idon't know.
It's the sweet stuff, that'sgood stuff.
And then the skin is there toprotect it from all the outside
forces.
So exactly all.
And the and the Trinity is thesame way.
It's got all the, all thedifferent aspects of it, the
(19:23):
father, son, holy Spirit.
They all have different roles.
And you talked about the Child,understanding it, the faith of a
child, and I think back toJesus, whenever he his phrase,
whenever he said if you havefaith, like a child, you know
that, that phrase and I Wantedto talk about this a little bit
as we, before we dive into thisor faith, you know we got to
(19:45):
have faith that God created theheavens and the earth, mm-hmm, i
mean, you got to have faith,right.
Right, it's, it's kind of ablind faith.
I'll be the first one to admitit, because we didn't see it
when it happened.
It's the one that makes themost sense to me, but you got to
kind of have blind faith inthat.
And even even the Bible inHebrew, says faith is a
substance of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen.
(20:06):
And No matter what or how youbelieve, we came into existence,
the earth came into existence.
It takes faith, mm-hmm, whetherwhether that's faith in a
designer, a God, or a faith inthe boom boom bang theory, you
know And you got to have faithbecause you weren't there at any
of those things.
So that person's faith that maybelieve in Darwin's theory of
(20:30):
evolution is no different thanmy faith in God.
As far as equality goes, ithink, because neither one of us
actually see it happen.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Right, that's true, and I'm having a struggle with
like evolution though.
So I had my little rain on thebig bang theory.
So if evolution like I've neverseen, like a cat, a kitten like
evolve into a lion, like Anykitten I've seen, stay to stay
the cat, you know it's just, iknow it's just so hard to.
(20:59):
I know that you know the, themind, you know evolves and you
know you can see like athleteslike, for example, like athletes
back in the day Yeah, you know,in the 70s and 80s aren't the
same as you.
The athletes today who traindifferently and you know, feel
their bodies differently, butthey're still like, like humans,
(21:20):
like it wasn't, like theydidn't transform from like an
ape or a gorilla, those type ofsituations.
So it's mentally it's hard forme to fathom that whereas this
makes sense, you know God makessense, a creator that I can't
understand makes sense for allthat we have.
That's so I don't know, socomplex to even think about.
(21:43):
Like that adds up more And whenyou read again the Bible and
the creation, it kind of puts ittogether that this could be
feasible.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And I'll be the first one to admit.
Now let me finish my statement.
I do believe in evolution, okay, but there's a minor evolution
and there's a major evolution,right, the major evolution is
wherever you have the evolutionwhere one species becomes
another species or you know,just complete transformation of,
like holy cow.
Look at that, the thing thatDarwin talks about.
(22:15):
You know, with the missing linkand everything.
Darwin even said himself thatif you do not find a missing
link, my theory which, by theway, it's called a theory, my
theory is useless.
If you never find a missinglink, my theory is useless of
whether it's a fish becoming abird or whatever it is, whatever
his theory of evolution is.
But I do believe in minorevolution, where you know you
(22:37):
take birds or something and yousee the seeds on the Galapagos
Island.
How about that?
I just impressed everybody byknowing the name of a Galapagos
Island.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Perhaps I will too.
That's even more of that.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, don't ask me to drive you there.
I couldn't get you there if Ihad to.
But you see the different sizedseeds there on the island and
this is like this scientificcase study where it's almost
like this little bubble wherethey could put these people or
these animals are there and sothey can go there and they can
study these animals becausethey're really kind of secluded.
And you see the bird sizes.
The beaks of the birds grow orshrink depending on the size of
(23:15):
the seeds from the year prior,because those birds that had to
have smaller beaks because itwas smaller seeds, because the
plants weren't doing as well,they were the ones that were
more fruitful and multipliedmore than the bigger beaks,
bigger beaked birds.
That's tough to say.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
See that guys.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So, but it changes depending upon the environment
that people or the animals arein.
but it's not major evolution,it's just minor evolution within
the same species.
Did I make sense at any of?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
that That's like adaptation You adapt to your
surroundings and such.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, i've adapted, many times to it.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So one of the things I always suggest for people to
do whenever they talk aboutGenesis, or whenever I talk
about Genesis with them a littlebit, is to get out a piece of
paper and don't be small in yourdrawing of this, but you should
draw this the way it reads fromthe book of Genesis.
Okay, you know what I mean Likein the beginning, god created
the heavens and the earth andkind of put on the piece of
paper as well, whatever piece ofpaper it is, and don't do this
(24:18):
while you're driving, if you'relistening to the podcast while
you're driving but just right upthere, right somewhere on the
piece of paper, some questionsthat you have, some people that
you can identify the names ofthings like God.
Right, god is there in thestory, so we could put God there
, find out who else is in thestory.
But also, right now, the youknow, he, just he created the
heavens in the earth.
So it's kind of like settingeverything up.
(24:39):
And then the earth was formlessand void in verse two, and
darkness was over the surface ofthe deep and the spirit of God
was moving over the surface ofthe waters.
Boy, that's, that's kind ofcool Sounded.
I don't know how you guys seethat in your head, but I know
how I see it in my head And it'sone of those slow motion
cameras filming like a raindropdropping to the ground And I
(25:04):
understand there's maybe noteven gravity at this point, but
just how it's like like almostjealous and it just can move and
toss around, but it kind ofstays in its own little, its own
little water shell at the watershell, but you know what I mean
Like it just can get blownaround a little bit or something
I don't know, formless and void.
I've always thought, i'vealways liked that phrase.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I think I don't know.
It's weird.
I almost feel like a mister fog, Yeah like something like a
windy type mist and I don't know.
It's hard to.
It's hard to kind of verbalizethe thought process.
But you just think about, yeah,like a foggy mist and even
(25:47):
almost like a bean, that's likehovering over, that's kind of
the same, like taking a similartype form.
It's not like a physical being,but just like a spiritual being
.
That's just.
I don't know.
It's hard to, it's hard to putin the words.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Well, it's appropriate, probably.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
All right.
So we got the spirit of God.
We have God.
We have the spirit of God andhe's moving over the surface of
the waters.
I think that's the biggest keythat we got to take out of this.
Everything's like water rightnow.
Okay, it's just water.
Then God said let there belight and there was light.
And God saw that the light wasgood and God separated the light
from the darkness and Godcalled the light day and the
darkness he called night Andthere was evening and there was
(26:28):
morning.
One day That's a lot of work inone day, in my opinion.
Right, there is where he neededto take a big break.
Yeah, go ahead and go onvacation right now.
You know how it seems like it'simpossible to do, but for God
nothing is impossible, right.
And so it's really hard to kindof fathom this.
How much work was that?
And then we realized, like fromJohn, chapter one, as it
associates itself with Genesis,chapter one, that it was just
(26:50):
words.
You know, just God spoke thesethings and it happened.
And that's maybe not as muchwork as I think it is, because
I'm speaking into a microphoneand it gets put out there on a
podcast, so it just happens.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, but he's a major, He's a major thing.
But I mean, i think about likethat, even like in our prayers,
like God wants it to be, likehow he can make it be and even
how quickly like things canhappen.
And you see it sometimes whenfolks are praying for healing or
praying for an answered, andall of a sudden, like boom, it's
(27:24):
there.
And that's not always the case,sometimes it's it's long,
sometimes it's delayed, butsometimes that prayer is instant
, answered, like instantly, andyou can just imagine you know
God just speaking into existence, and so why would that be any
different for the, the earth?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Right, that's a good point, all right.
So I don't think this is sunand moon yet.
I think this is just light anddarkness.
Okay, so I don't think the sunand moon is necessarily there, i
don't know.
That part Little confused.
God called the light.
Though we are did that for six.
God said let there be an expansein the midst.
Can I turn the page of my Bible, pierre?
(28:02):
I heard what you said, by theway, where I was listening to
past podcasts, how it soundedlike bags of chips and stuff.
It did sound like that.
I apologize, i apologizeeverybody, but the Doritos were
good.
Let there be an expanse in themidst of the waters and let it
separate the waters from thewaters.
And God made the expanse andseparate the waters which were
(28:24):
below the expanse from thewaters which were above the
expanse.
And it was so, and God calledthe expanse heaven.
And there was evening and therewas morning a second day, all
right.
So if I'm drawing this on mypiece of paper, you got one big
old thing, a big circle, and Igot to do a circle just because
that's how my mind has beenprogrammed all these years, like
(28:45):
a globe kind of a thing, right?
So you got this circle and itwas all water.
And then he said he put anexpanse in the middle of the
water to separate the water fromthe water.
And he's not talking about land, it's sky, it's the heavens.
That's what the expanse is.
So there's water above theheavens and there's water below
(29:06):
the heavens.
All right, are we following itnow?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I kind of want to like take a rocket ship and see
how high it would go and if itwould reach water, and think
about this.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
It's really mind boggling, if you like.
Try it's kind of like when Itry to think about the universe,
like it, it just blows my mind.
So like it's the same.
Same type of thing is just evenmore impressive.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Because, technically saying, there should be water
above, but obviously, like we'vebeen in, like planes, and you
know, we've been above the, theclouds, and there's more,
there's more sky and we have,you know, those that have left
the earth and there's like agalaxy.
So it makes you feel likethere's even more that maybe is
unreachable, that you'rebasically going to run into
(29:58):
another form of water.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
No, you know you're right, and that's the part, that
kind of you know you go.
Okay, wait a minute.
There.
Water above, though, and then.
So so you know, above the earthand water below the, there's
water in that, above thefirmament and water below the
firmament.
But then let me ask you guysthis okay, this is gonna get
into another topic and we thismay be the last topic of the day
, i don't know dinosaurs Thedinosaurs exist.
(30:27):
We see the remnants of it,right?
Okay?
so we see the bones, we see allthat stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I think it depends, because I'm not saying they
don't, because we obviously have, you know, the fossils etc.
But were they like dinosaurs oris that just a name that was
given to them?
because I know, like, forexample, myself, and in reading
through the Bible, i see, likedragon mentioned a lot, or the,
or the dragons, actually thedinosaurs, and they just got got
(30:59):
names dinosaurs and so I don'tknow.
Those are kind of the thoughtprocesses that run through, like
what exactly was it like?
was it a dinosaur, was it adragon?
was it a different being?
and you know, we'll get to thateven with the, the chair bones
and stuff like that as well, i'msure.
But yeah, there were someexistences.
This, you know, was the namechange, was the translation
(31:21):
different, which I see in theBible a lot as well, where one
Greek word, hebrew word, meansthis and that's not what it says
and it's a little twist, canchange.
You know what that is.
So that's my thought ondinosaurs.
I something existed.
You know there's fossils, butwas it a dinosaur?
was it something else with adifferent name?
(31:41):
those type of thing.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I was waiting to see here.
I was waiting here for shelltimed in or not, you know like,
but I so, yes, i agree with youthat word dinosaur maybe didn't
come into existence until then,but we know that if I say, for
simplicity, place big old things, you know I'm talking about
like, yeah, you know, i'mtalking about the big old thing.
So the dinosaurs.
Let me ask you this what diddinosaurs eat?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
everything.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It just depends on which dinosaur right yeah, i
mean, you see some and, again,based off of how they're
portrayed, there were somecarnivores, there were some
herbivores, and so it just alldepends yeah, i think a majority
of them were herbivores, if I'mnot mistaken I could be wrong
on that the, and then there werethe carnivorous ones as well,
but I think a carnivorousdinosaur probably had to eat
(32:32):
another dinosaur in order to behave a full belly, like you
can't.
And the carnivorous dinosaurscould not go around chasing
rabbits, and because it's justfirst of all, i don't know that
it could bend over to get them,but but if they're take a lot of
rabbits to fill up a dinosaur,you know what I mean.
Like it's just so I think youhad to have other dinosaurs and
other for the carnivorousdinosaurs to survive, and I
(32:52):
think that the herbivorious Ithink that word is just made up,
i just made it up dinosaurs hadto have a lot of plants and
have to have those things.
So we haven't seen land comeinto existence yet, but land
ends up getting placed in the,in that little bit of water
that's separated from the waterabove the firmament, right?
(33:13):
so the land gets placed in thewater below the firmament and
that's where the dinosaurs, ifthey were the big old things,
would have ended up living.
And you think about theenvironment that would have been
, with waters above the earthand waters below or you know, on
the earth it would have beenlike a greenhouse effect, you
know.
I mean like a really superhumidity kind of a thing.
(33:36):
You know what I'm talking about.
Like like, if you put the Sunin the middle of that, it just
gets really humid.
So I think that the plant lifewould be able to really just
flourish way back when,especially if we didn't have all
the buildings and everythinglike we have nowadays, but it
really be able to flourish.
So then the herbivore dinosaursare plentiful, the carnivorous
dinosaurs are plentiful, and youand I know that well, i know
(33:59):
anyway that you know there wassomething that happened that
just completely changed some ofthat stuff.
You know, i'm saying likethey're they found like woolly
mammoths frozen in in in in aweird place, like in the
Antarctica, with flowers intheir mouth, with flowers in
their stomach and there.
There's not such a thing thereon the North Pole or wherever it
(34:19):
is, where there is no thoseflowers.
So what?
what happened?
there was something likeinstantaneously that happened
right mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I mean I saw some people you know speak to the the
flooding.
You know, i know we're not intoto Noah, but that's one of
those things as well, where it'slike something would take place
and you look at how likemountains are formed and like
the Grand Canyon, for example,and just how it's all the rock,
as if something just rushedthrough there quickly and rose
(34:50):
quickly and kind of wiped outeverything.
And again, when you think aboutwater being above, i think we
often go to like rain and likerain clouds.
But you know we've been over,you know, if you flown you've
been over rain clouds where youknow a pilot can get out of the
rain.
It would have to be asubstantial amount of water out
(35:11):
of nowhere to take place there.
And so even what?
the dinosaurs, or dragons, oreveryone a column?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
it could have been a similar situation where
something just drastic tookplace and just wiped out their
existence yeah, definitely therewas something there, and so if
we fast forwarded to likeGenesis chapter 6 a little bit
and the flood, and we'll getthere eventually, i believe that
we'll end up getting there.
But if you, if you look thereand God told Noah, you know,
(35:39):
build the big old Ark and andget all the your family and put
them in there and get theanimals two by two and all that
stuff and put them in there.
And then if you look and I'mtrying to find it here because
it's, it's, it's been a minutesince I looked at this look like
in Genesis, chapter 7, verse 12, and it says the rain fell upon
the earth for 40 days and 40nights.
(36:01):
All right, so we see that.
But if you back it up, let'ssee one, two, two verses.
Pier, if you back it up twoverses and start reading there,
you got your Bible with you soyou're talking about the?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
after seven days, the water came all over the earth
yeah, genesis 7, verse 10, read10 and 11 and 12 all together so
after the seven days, the watercame over all the earth and the
600 year of Noah's life, andthe second month of the 17th day
of the month, all the fountainsof the great deep came bursting
through and the windows ofheaven were open and rain came
(36:37):
down on there for 40 days and 40nights you see that and you
know the interesting thing is ithad never rained before this
time never rained.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
That's why they mocked Noah, because he's
building a boat and they're likehey, dude, it never rained,
it's gonna come a flood,everybody's gonna come a flood.
Y'all better prepare.
You know that's what Noah wassaying.
I think those were exact words.
Noah was saying.
He was saying y'all betterprepare, and they were.
They were mocking him becauseit had never rained and and and
not only that, but you knowthere's no flooding, so
everything was contained.
(37:09):
And then it says here that thewindows of heaven, you know the
great burst opened up fromunderneath the land a little bit
there, it feels like.
And then the windows of heavenwere opened up and bam, for 40
days and I don't think that'sjust rain, i think that's the
windows of heaven where we justgot done reading the to me.
Now, this is me.
(37:29):
The firmament separated thewaters above and the waters
below right, and those watersabove the windows of heaven were
opened and it just came a flood.
That's that's how I can pictureit in my head.
That's how I can make sense of,you know, the great flood
that's talked about in so manydifferent societies along.
(37:53):
You know, in in earth, so manydifferent societies talk about
this great big flood that endedup happening, that just flooded
out the earth and that's thebigger.
That's that's how I can makethe sense of it is right there
from Genesis chapters was we'rein Genesis, chapter 7?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
that's how I can make sense of it, i mean it makes
sense and I never really read orthought like that.
But I mean, that's why I'm here,pierre, that's why I'm here
well, even when you think backto, like the Garden of Eden
which I'm sure we'll get into aswell like they were in the
presence of God there and youknow that was a holy, holy place
(38:28):
and they basically were, orit's out there, kicked out, but
there was at some point aconnection to where they could,
they love, but there was a kindof a connection between earth
and heaven when it came to theGarden of Eden.
So what's to stop that fromexisting still?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
well, and not only that, but I mean like pretty
much Genesis is a repeatingthrough Genesis.
It's repeating like all ofhumanity's choice to either
partner with God or reject him.
Right, like you see it play outover and over and over again.
You can either reject hisinstruction or you can partner
(39:08):
with him, and and we, as humans,just choose to follow our own
way.
And you see that from thebeginning.
So it's for me it's sad, likeI'm like man, you know we've had
all of this time to learn fromour mistakes and yet, as humans,
(39:29):
we're still repeating the cycle, and it's sad yeah, it is, it
is, and we even big, and we'reeven warned about it, right,
right, and we're told about itand we still repeat the same
thing.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
We're hardheaded, stubborn people and we ask that
you will please forgive us ofthat.
So you got the waters above theheaven, waters below the
heavens.
Windows of heavens were openedup and the water came flooding
down right.
The environment changes thenAnd we're fast forward and I
know, in our picture we haven'tgot, we haven't drawn this yet,
or anything But the Sun gets putthere in the middle of the
(40:04):
firmament, the moon gets putthere in the middle of the
firmament, but now there's notas much greenhouse effect, if
I'm saying that properly, youknow, like, like it's just going
to change if there's not watersabove the earth and waters
below the earth, if all there isis waters on the earth, it's
going to kind of change thewhole environment.
So maybe, maybe that changeStopped the dinosaurs from being
(40:28):
as plentiful.
You know, maybe, maybe, no, itdid put dinosaurs on the arc.
Maybe put little ones, babyones.
I don't, i don't, i don't, idon't, i don't have all the
answers.
Okay, maybe, maybe they canswim, and he tied them to the
the arc?
I don't.
Maybe they lived outside thearc, but the environment changed
.
So even if they did make itthrough the flood, maybe they
(40:48):
couldn't be as plentiful andProduce and reproduce and and
and so forth.
You know, maybe just thingschanged.
So I don't know that.
That's how I I don't know theanswers, but kind of putting
those pieces together makes themost sense out of it that I can
make.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's it, that's, that's good, that's
(41:08):
good.
All right, back over in Genesis, right, we're, we're, we're.
We're talking about the waterabove the earth, water below the
earth and everything like that.
And here, or Michelle, eitherone of you two, if you don't
mind, how about if you guysstart reading Verse nine, just
start reading verse nine, andI'll stop you somewhere along
the way of Genesis one.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So and God said let the waters under the heaven come
together in one place and Letthe dry land be seen.
And it was so, and God gave thedry land the name of earth and
the waters together in theirplaces were named seas, and God
saw that it was good.
And God said let grass come upon the earth and plants
(41:50):
producing seed and fruit treesgiving fruit In which there is
seed after the sword.
And it was so, and Grass cameup on the earth and every plant
producing seed of sorts andevery tree producing fruit in
which it is, seeds of It sorts,and God saw that it was good.
And there was evening and therewas morning, the third day.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
That's good, that's good, good job.
And the.
What strikes me out at this one, michelle, and correct me if
I'm wrong And you say you saidsort pier at mine says after
their own kind, like theyproduce vegetation after their
own kind.
You know, and and I just itkeeps happening like that.
Whenever you're talking aboutthe animals, even how they
(42:32):
reproduce after their own Kind,that kind of goes into the, the
evolutionary theory that we weretalking about a little bit,
where things become differentthings and everything that, just
Everything goes after its ownkind.
And I think about thereproduction part of things too,
where God is wanting things tobe fruitful and multiply,
michelle, and it's just like theThings go after their own
(42:55):
things or the kinds go aftertheir own kinds.
And it got me thinking aboutanimals.
Even now, i know we got somestrange dogs that end up doing
things every once in a while toother things, but usually a cat
reproduces with a cat, you knowwhat I'm saying.
Or a lion with a lion, and it'sit's still happening today.
You don't see Runoceros lookingat a giraffe and going, hey,
(43:16):
that's a pretty nice long legsright there.
You know, it just doesn't seemto happen that way.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Right, they just inherently know.
And so then that begs thequestion how, if there's not a
God, like, how do they, how dothey know, right, like, and I
think it kind of goes back toLike again in in Genesis, over
and over again, we get theconsistency of God's promise to
rescue and restore.
So if it didn't work that wayand we didn't find our own kind
(43:45):
like, then God's Promise is itthere like?
so I think it's.
It's just, it's Mind-blowing tome when you think like, how,
like you said, how therhinoceros knows to find the
rhinoceros, right, like, how arethey communicating?
like, what is it?
Is it the pheromones?
(44:05):
like, because, because God putsall of that in place.
So just the minute details ofeverything that he does that we
often don't even think about isJust mind-boggling.
Like I said, like when I thinkabout the universe, it's the
same type of thing You know,think about like seeds and trees
and like every year Garden likethey.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
They just reproduce and I mean I know over time
things can take place.
But I mean you can plant alittle seed and, you know, put
it in the ground.
Enough water, enough light, it'sgonna know it's what produce
exactly what it needs to produceAnd it does it over and over
again, like we.
we up here in the Midwest have,you know, all four seasons west
And with that, you see, liketrees, you know, the winter time
(44:51):
just kind of wilt and and die,but come around comes the spring
, they're starting to sproutagain without us doing anything.
We're not touching the treesourselves with a human aspect of
it, they're just growing andblossoming and it's like a cycle
And happens throughout thewhole world.
It doesn't just happen, youknow, here in the United States,
(45:12):
is everywhere This all takesplace.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
And I think about a tomato plant.
It produces tomatoes, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It doesn't.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
It doesn't produce cucumbers and the cucumbers
produce cucumbers.
Yeah, that's what it does,right, but but we can make, we
can make, we've, we figured itout, we've become little gods to
some degree where we can makesome hybrids of things.
You know what I mean.
Like, like, we can change theselittle, we can, we can tweak
these things just a little bitto try and figure out A way to
(45:42):
get a lemon lemon to grow on anorange tree.
You know right.
But it wasn't intended to bethat way, mm-hmm, but we have
made it that way.
We've decided to change theplan.
We man has decided to kind oftweak it to fit our own needs,
or maybe, maybe even we don'tneed it to happen that way.
(46:04):
We just want to see if we can.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
You know complex.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, yeah, it is that God complex, but I'm gonna
go deep right here.
Y'all don't hate me, okay,y'all don't hate me.
If you, if you do, you canreach me over on Twitter at Pee
Wee 31.
But I think about, i Just thinkabout society today and We've,
(46:30):
we've, we've changed things somuch to fit our desires, we've
tweaked it so much to notnecessarily figure out a way to
produce with our own kind, andThis is gonna be controversial.
Y'all don't hate me, i'm justthinking out loud.
But this was Pride Month, right,but it was Pride Month, and
(46:53):
I've seen a lot of differentparades going up and down
Different places and I don'tknow what to believe because I
didn't necessarily see that manyof them here where I live.
But I, i see women dressinglike men and men dressing like
women.
I see men dressing like vulgarmen out in front of children,
and And I see parents bringingchildren to these things to let
(47:15):
them see this.
And I'm personally You all knowmy background and if you don't,
you can go listen to pastpodcast.
I've I've seen a lot of thingsthat I never should have seen
and it ingrained in my mind andit ingrained in my head to where
it's.
It's like one of those shockingmoments that I can't ever
forget, but I wish I'd ever saw.
And for me as a parent, i alwaysthink that my number one job is
(47:36):
to protect my child's innocencefor as long as possible.
Right, i need to protect mychild's innocence as long as
possible, just like you talkedabout, pierre.
I hope we all do get to go backto the Garden of Eden at some
point into heaven, where we willbe innocent, there will be no
sin, we will be no night there,we'll be able to have things the
way we did as a child andlooked at life as maybe a child
(47:57):
like way.
So when I see children at theseevents, i'm going.
There is no possible way thatthat these grown adults Should
be doing this in front ofchildren.
There is no way that I wouldever dream of bringing my
children to that and look, theseare your kids, this is my.
I got my kids, you got yourkids.
We can both screw them up,however We want to.
(48:18):
Okay, that's our inalienableright for having children.
But I go back to this littletime here Where animals were
reproducing with their own kind.
Vegetation was reproducing withits own kind.
If, if everything moves intothis Pride area, then things are
(48:40):
going to stop reproducing.
And if they do reproduce, maybethey won't be reproducing with
their own kind, and I don't knowwhat came first, the chicken or
the egg, but we Maybe we changethings to fit our own desires,
more so than God changing thingsalong the way.
You know, i'm trying to besensitive as I talk and I'm
(49:03):
trying to be kind of blunt atthe same time.
So forgive me if I'm too blunt,but I just, i just don't know
what ended up happening first,peering all this and and.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
I'll throw it over to you, so I can just sit back and
so I think I Think that'sthroughout, though, and I think
I think pride always getsbrought up, but People don't
bring up divorce, people don'tbring up adultery, and maybe
it's because it's not thrown inyour face.
So my thought of if it's sin,it's all sin, and I'm kind of of
(49:39):
an opinion that Christians likehate gays, hate the homosexual
community just by the way theyreact to them.
If these are still human beingsthat were called to love and
neighbors that were called tolove, we can't do so, not
(50:02):
accepting them as humans.
It's one thing to accept thesin itself, it's another to
accept them as humans, and Ithink we struggle with that, and
I think that pride is a veryinteresting name that goes about
it both from the standpointthat it's in your face and
(50:23):
there's a prideful impact to it,to where it's gonna be in your
face.
But on the flip side, i thinkthose outside of there are too
prideful to find a way to acceptthe people themselves.
Me as a sinner, i don't findJesus if someone didn't accept
(50:44):
me and show me Jesus.
So I don't know how those underpride can find Jesus themselves
if those who say you knowthey're Jesus followers can't
figure out a way to accept them,just as we've accepted those
that are divorced, those thatare committing adultery, those
(51:05):
have even committed murder tosome extent.
These are all sins.
So where do we go about theacceptance of the people and
doing what God says to do aboveall else as loving Him and
loving your neighbors asyourself?
Speaker 3 (51:21):
Great points Here and I have had, very like, so many
conversations about this and Ihave struggled with it because,
like you know, i have familymembers who are on that side of
this And you know you still wantto love them and I see the good
that many of them have done andlove God, and so you know it's
(51:47):
tough and I'm with you, though,on this West where it's like,
first of all and I'm not judginghere, it's just something that
I thought of and this isprobably gonna be really
controversial too but it'scalled pride.
But pride is a deadly sin.
So that kind of struck me.
(52:08):
It's not to say you know that,that's why, or anything like
that.
I'm not saying that, but for meI'm with you on the
reproductive part, becausethat's kind of the argument back
and forth up here, and I've hadnot argument but just
discussion.
But for me I don't think it'sup to us to judge.
(52:28):
I will agree with him on thatand that we are called to love
like Jesus, and Jesus loved thesinners and those who were
rejected and despised.
So I agree with himwholeheartedly that we are
called to love one another, nomatter what.
What makes it tough for me is ifI really try to look at it
fundamentally in God's intentfor us, if it's not a man and a
(52:54):
woman and you can't reproducewhich I believe God wants us to,
then that raises that questionlike, is it right?
But I also believe, like I'mdivorced.
So like my whole struggle withgetting my divorce, as I made
the biggest promise there was toGod that I'm going to be with
(53:16):
this person for my life, and somy struggle in leaving that
relationship was breaking thatpromise.
But ultimately I had to getdown to.
The fundamental question wasfor me do I believe that God
wants better for me or is thiswhat he has?
Because ultimately I'm stillhuman and I can make an error in
(53:38):
judgment and I honestly believethat was my human error in
judgment and God had more for me.
So, but it's still something Ihave to reconcile with him when
my judgment day comes.
So it doesn't mean that I haveto believe and agree with
everything everyone else does.
That's not up to me to judge but, i, agree with you, wes as well
(54:01):
, but I want to protect mychild's innocence and mine too
in some shape, shape or form.
So I mean, i don't know This iswhere Pierre and I talk about
this a lot because, quitehonestly, i think we both
struggle with it a lot and howthe church reacts, and he and I
have different feelings about it, and I think that everybody
(54:25):
probably does.
But ultimately, what I comedown to for me is number one
it's up to us to love oneanother, as Jesus did, and
number two, it's not up to us tojudge others.
But that said, it's also toughas a Christian, because where do
you draw that line betweenstanding up for what we believe
(54:49):
the Bible says And I say webelieve because it's
interpretation sometimes andletting everyone have their
freedom to do what they believeis correct.
So I don't know, it's a toughone, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Hey, listen, and we've said that and we're not
taking a tough stance, we'retrying to talk about tough
topics.
That's what we try to do and toget the different And that's
what I said earlier And it'slook, we knew we were gonna talk
about Genesis.
Michelle and Pierre didn't knowwhere I was going with that,
and I really didn't know where Iwas going with that necessarily
.
But as I prepared for this alittle bit and just had these
(55:29):
thoughts marinating in my head,that was a thought that went
through my mind.
And it may not have wentthrough my mind unless it was a
June and it was Pride month,right, and so maybe it didn't.
But I saw something the otherday on Twitter and I found it
again while you were talking,michelle, and I'm going to be.
I think I may be a genius afteryou guys may say Wes, you are a
(55:50):
pretty smart guy.
That's what you may say afterthis, and some of you may not.
But I talked about EdwardBernays a couple of episodes ago
, the father of advertisement,and I talked about how he helped
women end up smoking and stuffand how he made smoking end up
being a fashionable thing, andwe have that still advertising
genius and prowess here nowadayswhere it influences people to
(56:12):
do all those things right.
And so I go back and I thinkabout different things And one
of the things I think about islike how many people did I know
that would have participated inthe Pride month whenever I was
growing up as a kid?
Now, i knew some people, right,but they were all older people,
not necessarily anybody any ofmy peers, and I can understand
(56:32):
why not if they were, iunderstand that.
But this was an interestingstudy that I saw, and it was by
a statistic is what it was byAnd it talked about the
different.
It has these little bar graphsand I'm not going to be able to
explain a lot of these things.
But Generation Z, starting therein the year 1997, people that
(56:54):
were born between 1997 and 2004.
Like, they are the biggest onesthat identify as LGBT right now
in today's society, 20%, 20% ofthose people that were pulled a
US adult identify as LGBT.
Isn't that something?
I mean that seems like.
There you go down to the peoplethat were born before 1946,
(57:17):
right, 1946, as of today, it is1.7%.
Baby boomers, people that wereborn kind of between the years
1946 and 1964, it is 2.7%.
Generation X, 1965, 1980, it's3.3%.
And millennials which were bornbetween 1981 and 1996, it's
11.2%.
(57:38):
You can kind of see thesegraphs.
They all stay the same, exceptfor that Generation Z where over
a three year period it went 10,five points higher.
It went 5% higher.
And I gotta say I wonder okay,are we getting influenced by the
advertisers, by the things wesee?
(57:59):
And that's why that peoplemaybe identify as that more so,
because it's the fashionablething to do or it's a cool thing
to do?
I don't know.
I don't know that.
I know that my grandparents, oreven myself, who watches
Matlock, i don't see a lot ofthose people on the television
show, matlock, you know.
But how many people do you seeon the television shows that
(58:20):
maybe Disney puts out or otherpeople put out?
I don't know, because I don'twatch those things, so I'm not
necessarily sure It goes back toone of our episodes of options.
Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah, our first episode of options.
Like once it's an option, it'sin your head right, like it's an
option now.
So if someone isn't happy withwho they are, well, now I have a
different option And but again,ultimately, i think that the
(58:53):
big for me, the big lesson inthis is it's not okay to hate
period Like it's for us.
We need to love one another andwe're not gonna reach people if
we hate them.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
I think that's what even triggers some of it.
I'm sure because I've hadfriends, i've had co-workers et
cetera and there's like a lackof acceptance is often what a
lot of it comes down to And Idon't know where the breakdown
is.
I haven't lived that life, butsociety always tries to tell you
(59:32):
what you have to be, what youcan and can't do, and when that
happens, i mean you're gonnahave rebellion for one, You're
gonna have people that do itjust so they can rebel and kind
of be against the norm, butyou're gonna have people that
feel they need to do it in orderto be accepted.
For example, like growing up,little boys don't play with
(59:57):
Barbie, dolls et cetera.
That was just the thing thatthey go around.
Boys don't play with dolls.
But I mean if you're a boy thatlikes dolls, then like dolls.
But if that's what you're beingtold, you see little girls
playing with dolls, okay, then Iwanna be, you know, a little
girl.
I wanna be able to do what Ifind fun And society tells you
(01:00:22):
that you can't do that becauseyou gotta be strong, you gotta
be tough, you gotta be bold, andI mean you do need strength,
but I just feel like that can.
That just turns people off Andthey feel like they're not happy
.
They can't be who they want tobe.
So they try to change it andthey try to be something else
And, honestly, oftentimes thatend up being happy as well,
(01:00:45):
because they're searching in thewrong places.
But I just think that sometimesus as a society put so much
pressure on what you can andcan't do.
That's outside the Bible.
These are man-made type ofrules and it just starts to
bother people And they start togo through their own changes,
trying to figure out who theyare as an individual when
(01:01:08):
they're young, when they'reteenagers, because they don't
know they wanna do certainthings and they're being told oh
no, that's not for you.
Who's to tell me what's not forme, except for God?
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Well and honestly, pierre and I've had this
conversation so many times thatit isn't lost on us too that not
too many years ago it wouldhave been not looked upon very
well for us to be married.
So it's kind of eye-opening andyou know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
And so I even use that.
So let's say we were in asociety where I love my wife,
i'm black, she's white, andthey're saying that I can't love
her.
I'm gonna have a problem withthat And I know that's kind of
the way of homosexual andwhether you know, since this is
within the Bible, we're okay,but since Leviticus, you know,
(01:02:04):
has a portion in the Bible, it'sso wrong And there's no sin.
You know, in the love towardsmy wife There's no like hate.
I can't help.
You know the way I feel abouther And I feel like that could
be a similar situation forothers And if it was wrong, like
what would I do?
is what I think.
So if it came out that meloving my wife, that she's white
(01:02:27):
and I'm black, was wrong, iwould basically be in the same
situation where the world andwhether it be Christians,
whoever telling me I can't dothis God says is wrong.
But I'm watching a world fullof many things that God says is
wrong, that God's people areaccepting or saying at least
(01:02:50):
they repent and it's okay Andthat's it's not okay for me to
simply love someone else.
And you talk about reproducing.
I mean, there are gay couplesthat are better parents than
heterosexual couples And again,i'm not sure what makes it right
or wrong, but just keep that inmind.
There was a heterosexualrelationship that took place and
(01:03:13):
they threw the kid to the curbor didn't want the kid, and it
took a gay couple to take thatchild into a loving home that
they didn't get from the otherside.
So there's just so manydifferent ins and outs and
that's why I don't really worryabout it.
I let people be what they wannabe and love what they wanna
love, and I'm gonna love them inreturn, cause that's what I get
(01:03:35):
out of the Bible.
Jesus wasn't in there withpriests and pastors and
Christians.
He was in there with taxcollectors and sinners and
prostitutes.
That's who he was doing lifewith.
So that's who I'm gonna do lifewith.
Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
I'm not a prostitute, by the way.
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Well, there's so many things that Pierre said good
job, Pierre, you did a good jobbreaking it down Very
passionately.
Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
I'm gonna put a mic, drop a little bit.
Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
I'm just saying No, no, that's very passionate there
And I appreciate that, hey.
So you got your black and yourwhite, did you guys had a kid
together?
Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
What color was the kid?
Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
She's both.
Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Cream like.
Is it a cream tannish kind ofcolor?
Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
She's a light brown and she's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
No, no, listen, that's what, yeah, and you know
cause you guys came together,like your own kind, to come
together there and produce child.
One of my thoughts is how doeshomosexuality continue to
increase?
Because if a homosexual couplecomes together, what color kid
(01:04:38):
do they have?
And if it's about genes, and ifit's about you know our body
types and reproducing and youthink about, like the Galapagos
Island stuff again you thinkabout that, wouldn't it become
more extinual instead ofincreasing?
(01:04:59):
And I think about that, iwonder about that.
So if homosexuals can'tnecessarily reproduce after
their own kind, then how is itcontinuing to increase?
It's gotta be outside forcesinstead of inside forces, unless
we're inserting chemicals,maybe, or something like that to
(01:05:22):
change things on the inside ofour bodies.
I don't know.
Those are thoughts, listen, ihave thoughts, okay, and I don't
know how it continues toincrease, but yet it can't
increase naturally.
So, look, we're trying tohammer some things out, we're
trying to talk about some things, and these things are really
(01:05:44):
tough And I wondered whether ornot we should talk about these
things a little bit, guys, i'mbeing honest with you.
And then, when I did stumbleacross the suicide, the abortion
episode, i said, well, we'vealready talked about some stuff,
yeah, so maybe we can talkabout some other stuff, and I
love what you said, though,pierre, about loving people and
(01:06:04):
who Jesus was with and what hispurpose was, and it was.
Spreading God's love is what itwas, and I think that that is
the foremost and utmost thingthat we need to do, and that's
how we're gonna make this worlda better place.
If I'm gonna steal a phrase,there.
Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Hey, that's my goal.
Like I'm trying to get toheaven.
I hope as many of you come withme as possible, but after any
day, i'm all I can control meAnd I'm understanding the Bible.
La, i understand it.
And again, these were similarscenarios when it came to rules
and laws.
And Jesus is like, hey, youdon't get it, and even mentioned
(01:06:44):
again above all else.
So that's what I'm doing.
I'm doing above all else, causethat's what the Bible told me
to do.
Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
And look, we may not get it either.
I may not get it.
I understand that I may not getit.
I'm an open mind.
I think about things, but youcan tell I thought about these
things.
It's not just stuff that I'mrattling off here.
I thought about this stuff.
It perplexes me, it keeps me upat night.
That's why we started thispodcast, finding Faith and
Losing Sleep podcast so we couldtalk about these things.
And I know Pierre's still gonnatalk to me after this.
I know Michelle's still gonnatalk to me after this.
I know I have friends that I'veasked to listen to this, who
(01:07:14):
are homosexuals, and they'restill gonna talk to me after
this, because we've talked aboutthese things And I'm still
waiting for good answers thatsatisfy me, and so I'm putting
it out there.
If you have a good answer forme, by all means you can reach
us at findingfaithpod over onTwitter, at
findingfaithlosingsleep atgmailcom.
Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
I've come close to saying that right here, Before
the email address it's justfindingfaithlosingsleep at
gmailcom.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Or you can reach us over there on whatever listening
platform you like to listen tous on, by giving us some ratings
.
there We ask that you give usfive stars.
We don't want you to lie, butif you got a lie, just no five
stars.
or whatever stars you want to,or however you rate those things
I don't even know.
I don't know that I've everrated anything.
Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
But you can reach us over there.
We're at five right now.
So I mean thanks to, we'restill at five.
I think we got 140 ratingsthere.
Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
So that's, great.
Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
We reached what 5,000 downloads recently.
So I mean just thanks toeveryone that tunes in.
Hopefully that continues as wecontinue to dive into some of
these tough topics.
But even if it doesn't, youknow we're doing this for God
and hoping to reach us some ofyou.
Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
But just adds up there on our program, but you
can leave a comment.
You can leave a comment overthere as well.
That's cool, though 5,000 isfine.
So you can leave a comment overthere as well.
If you want to reach us Andlook, please, we're trying to
say this stuff out of love.
We ask that you'll try to dothe same thing.
But the thing we always askeverybody is you pray for us and
we will pray for you.
Thank you.
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