April 15, 2025 • 27 mins
John Tesh and the LeBlancs dive deeper into what to do when loss comes to someone you know. Many professionals are “book trained” in the field of bereavement and grief, but as John says regarding their first book, “I don’t know another book like this… It’s like a ‘Swiss army knife’ — every tool you could need on what to do when there’s a death, and born out of personal experience.’ Many “Rules of Engagement” from Chapter 14 are discussed, giving examples how we can assist those walking through loss.
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Episode Transcript
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Jill LeBlanc (00:05):
Hey, everyone. Happy Tuesday. Thanks for
joining us.
Charlie LeBlanc (00:09):
Yeah. Thanks for being back with us. We have
an awesome, episode coming upwith John Tesh, an interview
that he did with us actually.And it's actually the second
part, so if you haven't seen thefirst part, please go back and
watch the first part. It'llreally bless you.
But we're excited to presentthis second part to you right
now, so God bless. Enjoy it.
John Tesh (00:29):
So Jill and Charlie, I'm interested in knowing how
when your friends, and you hadmany of them, friends, you know,
other family members, when youwere going through this, how did
they react to you?
Jill LeBlanc (00:45):
Different ones were, it's kind of interesting
because some people would wouldjust act like nothing ever
happened. And they would try tomaybe they were uncomfortable
talking about our loss to us,and so they would say, "Oh, I
heard you had a grandson. Isn'tthat something? You had a
(01:06):
grandson."
John Tesh (01:07):
Oh my gosh. Wow.
Charlie LeBlanc (01:08):
It's almost like, don't think about
yourself.
John Tesh (01:12):
Oh my god. I just get yeah. You gave me chills. It's
terrible.
Jill LeBlanc (01:18):
Yep. They would they would either do that or
they would just try to talkabout everything else except
this. Yeah. Or they would say,so how you doing? Tell me how
you're doing.
And I'm like, I don't reallywanna talk about I mean, I
wouldn't say this, but on theinside, I'm like, I don't really
wanna talk about this to youright now. I mean, this is
(01:41):
really deep and heavy and, youknow, it's just not the time and
you're not the person. And, youknow, some people, they really
care, but they just don't knowhow to.
John Tesh (01:50):
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, which is why this book is
tremendous. I don't know a booklike this where it really is,
and we'll talk about this,really is the rules of
engagement. But I'm interestedin knowing too, how did how did
people react to your survivingchildren?
Jill LeBlanc (02:10):
You know, that's interesting. Many siblings,
people that lose a sibling,oftentimes people will they they
won't look at that as a prime asa major loss. It's like a
secondary loss.
John Tesh (02:30):
No.
Jill LeBlanc (02:30):
Because they'll go to the sibling like, "Oh, how
are your parents?"
You know, they won't necessarilyacknowledge it to the sibling
because it's a major loss formany siblings to lose their
brother or sister. And thiscarries on even into older ages.
(02:52):
Like we were talking to someoneI was talking to someone
recently that their sibling, Ithink they were in their
fifties. And, you know, to somepeople that's like really old.
It's not that old anymore to me,but, you know?
So when I was younger and wouldhear of someone dying in their
fifties, I would think, oh gosh.Well, they were they were old
anyway. But some people thatthey're in their fifties or
(03:18):
sixties and they lose a sibling,and that's devastating to them.
Because to them, that was theirbrother or their sister who they
were so close with, but otherpeople don't they don't
recognize that write off if theyhaven't walked through it. That
and our daughters were muchyounger.
They were all in their twentieswhen our son passed. And it
(03:41):
just, you know, their closestfriends were sensitive to it
because they were also friendsof our son. Most people didn't
send comfort and sympathy andcompassion to our daughters for
them as much as they alwaysasked about us and how we were
(04:03):
doing. And that always made mesad.
Charlie LeBlanc (04:05):
Yeah. I think we added an example in the book
where we have some close friendsthat lost their father, this one
couple. And so, you know, theylost him and they were just
broken, our friend and his wife.And he had lost his father, she
(04:26):
had lost her father-in-law whoshe was really close to and
loved him like a father. And sothe pain of that loss is there.
People are coming to the son andsaying, you know, we love you.
Jill LeBlanc (04:44):
And the father was pastor of a church.
Charlie LeBlanc (04:46):
Yeah. Pastor of a church and and his son
actually took it over. But it'skinda like she told us, the the
the son, daughter-in-law toldcame to us and she said she
said, you know, people arealways coming to me and saying,
"How's your husband?" You know?
Or, "How's your mother-in-law?"But she said, no one was
(05:08):
acknowledging the fact I lost myfather-in-law and and I loved
him. He was and actually, shewas from a broken family. And so
she she looked to him like adad. So there was just I think
these people are missing wherethere are people hurting all in
a lot of different places whenthere's a loss.
(05:29):
And we really need to besensitive to to all those little
places like a a daughter-in-law,you know, a brother, a sister, a
distant cousin. You know, we tobe honest, we were hurting so
bad that we weren't aware of iteven. I mean, we were just so
hurting. We didn't realize thatboth cousins and my sisters and
(05:51):
brothers were hurting. My momand dad were hurting.
And, you know, I think it's justreally important, and we put a
lot of that in the book, just tobe aware of of all the the the
pain that goes out and and tojust be aware of that so that
you can love each other and helpeach other. And and I want might
(06:12):
wanna add something else thatwas very interesting with our
own family, with our twodaughters. It was interesting
because they were like, I hopemom and dad are okay. So they're
like, when we'd get together,they would be like, you know,
they'd be really super sweet andbut they they wouldn't talk
about Beau. This is thebeginning stages.
(06:32):
Wouldn't talk about Beau becausethey were they were even afraid
to, like, bring it up so thatthey didn't want us to start
grieving or crying or whatever.And in the same way, we were
approaching them like, oh, wedon't wanna don't wanna bring up
Beau to hurt them, you know, toget them on in a bad place. So
it was like this weird thing,you know. And so finally, we
just all we just talked. Wesaid, listen. It's the elephant
(06:55):
in the room. We we all have thispain. We all have this loss.
Let's just talk about it. And wedid and we enjoyed it.
And today, it's very easy tojust talk about Beau, remember
nice things about him, sharemoments. And it's just I think
that that was something that wewe had to we learned pretty
quickly, but but it wassomething that we put in the
(07:15):
book and we all need to learnhow to that that that elephant
in the room, like Jill wassaying a minute ago, you know,
people would come up and, youknow, why don't they just say,
you know, I can't imagine whatit's like to lose Beau. He was
such a beautiful young man. Weloved him so much and we miss
him, but I can't imagine how youdo, you know. That just touches
(07:38):
us so deeply.
People are afraid to mention hisname because they're afraid
they're gonna bring it up andyou're gonna get back in the
grief. And it's like you realizethat when you lose a son or you
lose the one you really love,they're on your mind all the
time. So it's not like you'regonna you bringing them up, it's
not gonna, you know, cause me togo into any new grief or
anything. Hey, it blesses us.
(08:00):
It helps us. And so, you know,John, I was sharing this same
idea. And of course it's in thebook with a pastor. And the
pastor was interviewing us andhe said, Charlie, after I read
your book, he said, I'm actuallygonna be a better pastor now
because for all the people thatare losing their loved ones in
my church, he said, now he says,I feel like I have more
(08:22):
empowerment now to be able to goand minister to them and say
their son's name, say theirhusband's name, you know, and it
say their name. That's just areal important thing.
We love to hear, our son's name.And, yeah, you say, well, you
don't wanna hurt them. There's alittle sting, of course.
John Tesh (08:43):
Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (08:43):
But it's okay. You remember them so you want
you wanna talk about them. It'sreally true.
John Tesh (08:50):
Yeah. You know, we've had the, we've had advice on the
on the radio show before aboutabout dealing with well, how how
to talk to people who are whoare grieving. And every time we
do something like that, theadvice comes from a psychologist
or a psychotherapist. And sothis this to me right now, this
(09:11):
moment with you guys, Irealized, I had the revelation
that, okay, so that stuff'scoming out of their experience
talking to people or out of abook or out of their training
that they that that they got.Bless their hearts, as my mom
would say.
But you guys came right out ofbunker. I mean, you came you
(09:34):
were you were fully engaged, notonly with the enemy, but with
the grief. And also with peoplewho again, you know, they they
don't have any training as tonone of us have any training as
to how to talk to people who aregrieving. It's like then you
feel guilty, you know, beingyeah. Like, oh, having bad
feelings about about thosepeople.
So one of my favorite parts, itmight even be my favorite part
(09:57):
of the book, is is your rules ofengagement. And again, this book
is called When Loss Comes ComesClose to Home. And when you go
to chapter 14, it's right here,rules of engagement and it's
your orders that soldiersdefinition, orders that soldiers
fighting in a war are givenabout what they can and cannot
do. And so rule number one thatyou guys wrote down here, it's
(10:20):
rules of engagement with peoplewho are grieving. Right?
So is love them. What does thatlook like?
Charlie LeBlanc (10:27):
Well, you know, we the Bible says to weep with
those who weep and rejoice withthose who rejoice. And so too
often as Christians, we feellike we have to fix people,
(10:48):
Christian or non Christian. Ifsomeone's hurting, you wanna fix
them. I have an answer. I have asolution for you.
You know? And that's a greatheart and everything, but some
things just need time to behealed. This in particular, a
loss like this, it's just gonnatake some time. And, and so the
(11:09):
Bible says to weep with thosewho weep. So to us, love looked
like people that served us.
I don't wanna say served us, butcame to us and helped us get
through those first time,bringing us food, you know,
offering to help us around thehouse. Love was with us.
(11:32):
They were patient with us.
Exactly.
Jill LeBlanc (11:34):
You know?
Charlie LeBlanc (11:34):
You mentioned Andrew and Jamie Womack, you
know, they're great you know,Andrew's an amazing Bible
teacher, And yet, you know,you'd have thought he would have
sat me down and said, Charlie,this scripture says scripture
scripture scripture scripture.But, no, he loved us. And and I
have to say that, you know,we've been leading worship for
(11:55):
Andrew for over twenty years andI have to say that the love that
him and Jamie have showed us inthe last fifteen years after
losing Beau, the patience, likeJill said, the patience they had
with us. When others weresaying, Charlie and Jill need to
get over this, you know, it'stime for them to grow up and
(12:16):
mature and get over this. Well,they didn't experience losing a
son, so what can they speak onit?
But Jamie and Andrew had thematurity enough to just love us,
and they allowed us to begin tolead worship in their meetings
even when they knew that we werestill hurting.
John Tesh (12:33):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (12:34):
In fact, there were sometimes we would lead
worship and then go back to ourhotel room and get on the phone
with our daughters and just weepand just talk and visit. And
they never, never condemned usor said, you need to be on that
front row if you're gonna leadworship, as an example to the
people. They never did. And thenwe graduated from the hotel room
(12:57):
to sitting in the back of theauditorium after we left the
churches. And then we graduatedto the front I graduated to the
front row.
I had the heart and the strengthto sit, and then Jill eventually
did. And there's another wholestory there. There's a lot of
testimonies there. But but Ijust wanna say love, you know,
just people that were patientwith us, that loved us, that
(13:18):
didn't try to fix us, and I havea story about that too, but we
can get to that later.
John Tesh (13:22):
Okay. So number one rule of engagement for talking
to people who have gone throughand and again, it's could be
losing a child. It could belosing a best friend. A lot of
people feel extreme grief fromlosing an animal because they
you know, animals become a lifewitness for us and and it's it's
(13:43):
very hard to to to say to saygoodbye. So number two is don't
judge.
Charlie LeBlanc (13:49):
That's good. I like that. Whoever wrote that,
that was good.
John Tesh (13:54):
I was gonna say I was gonna say, didn't you write
this? Whose book is this?
Charlie LeBlanc (13:58):
You you comment on that, not judging. You know,
it's like such a big deal.
Jill LeBlanc (14:03):
Yeah. You know, it's like what we were saying
that, you know, we would kindacatch word through the grapevine
that, you know, people weretalking behind our backs and
saying the things like, youknow, I can't believe Charlie
and Jill are still, you know,just still so sad all the time
(14:23):
and and still grieving after solong. And, you know, they should
be over it by now. And, youknow--
John Tesh (14:32):
People are actually saying this? I mean, they they
overheard people saying this?
Jill LeBlanc (14:35):
That's what we've heard.
John Tesh (14:37):
Oh, wow.
Charlie LeBlanc (14:37):
We didn't hear, but we heard.
John Tesh (14:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Go ahead.
Jill LeBlanc (14:41):
And so it's you just don't know what's going on
in the inside of a person. And,you know, like with me, I like I
said, I was in autopilot in, youknow, leading worship for quite
a while. And then just as Icontinued to take baby steps
(15:04):
forward, the Lord would meet methere. And he didn't judge me
because he saw my heart. He knewour pains, you know, he knew
where we were at.
And so he just gently walkedalong with us, but other people
couldn't see how patient theLord was with us, but they
thought that we should, youknow, be further along by now.
(15:28):
And so you just you know,sometimes grieving people, we
address this in the book. Youknow, they they can be you know,
I use the word 'verklempt' inthe book.
John Tesh (15:39):
Yeah.
Jill LeBlanc (15:39):
We have a chapter called "Veklempt" because
grieving people, they act kindof veklempt, at least early on.
Charlie LeBlanc (15:48):
It's a Yiddish word.
Jill LeBlanc (15:49):
It's a Yiddish word for meaning that someone is
just kind of out of sorts. And,you we were that way for a
while, and and people get thatway for for a while. And in some
ways, it can change you forever,but, you just you just kinda
become a bit dysfunctional andand so people judge that.
John Tesh (16:13):
I think a lot of people feel, reading the book
too, I mean, I think a lot ofpeople feel like you should just
go back to the person- you'renot the same person. Right?
Jill LeBlanc (16:22):
Right. No.
Charlie LeBlanc (16:23):
You're not. Yeah. Right.
Jill LeBlanc (16:24):
Oh, gosh. It's like a part of you has been cut
off, really.
John Tesh (16:27):
Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (16:27):
It's like the CS Lewis example with the the
peg leg. He said, you know, theperson who has his leg
amputated, you know, he he wakesup every morning and puts that
prosthetic on. And so, know, hemay look like he's walking fine,
but he'll never forget that thatthere.
(16:49):
And so, you know, you do getbetter. You know, you get
stronger by the grace of God.You you you know, Jesus heals
the broken heart. The Bible sayshe's close to those who who have
a broken heart. So he healsbroken hearts and he does
comfort those whom who mourn,but you never forget.
And so back to your thing aboutjudging, you know, people just
(17:13):
in general, the Bible says,judge not lest you be judged.
And so we should never judgesomeone when they're going
through a difficult time. Soyou've been through a divorce,
you know, people right awaystart think- judging people in
their recovery.
John Tesh (17:27):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (17:27):
Whatever it is, you just, we as believers, as
Christians, as good human beingsshould never be judging others.
We should just let people lovethem and let God, you
know, help them.
John Tesh (17:39):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (17:39):
Help them.
John Tesh (17:40):
Yeah. Rule number three, and and I need help with
this, is allow the griever totalk when they're ready. How do
you know when they're ready?
Jill LeBlanc (17:52):
Well, you just kind of listen, and you let them
kind of drive the ship, if youwill. Just if they're if they're
start talking about you know,like, friend of ours lost her
husband a couple of years ago,and, you know, she was just she
(18:14):
was just you know, even thoughhe was ill for a long time, the
death still came kind ofsuddenly. And and she just
didn't wanna talk with everyoneshe knew about it all the time.
And until later, she, you know,just after time, she she got to
(18:35):
where she was okay to to mentionthings. And and so you would
hear her bring bring his name upand and just mention different
things about the journey.
And, so you just kinda have tobe sensitive. You know, we talk
about this in the book, youknow, in that particular rule
and in other places too. Youjust, you just be sensitive.
(18:57):
Don't just just barge in andsay, how are you doing? Because
you're sincere and and you care,but when you ask that question,
it just takes them right back toto why they're at this place.
You know?
John Tesh (19:14):
Yeah. Yeah. I I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Jill LeBlanc (19:17):
People would ask us that. Like, how are you
doing? And I would have been,you know, maybe, you know, not
thinking about it for thatmoment. And all of a sudden, I'm
thinking about it again. I'mthinking about the fact that my
son died because someone justasked how I'm doing.
Right. You know? So you justkinda have to follow their lead
a little bit. And and, if theybring it up and start talking,
(19:40):
then, you know, the door isopen.
John Tesh (19:42):
Right. Right. You know, it's it's go ahead.
Charlie LeBlanc (19:44):
John, I'm sorry. But if I could say
something else that's veryimportant in this particular
thing, it doesn't answer thatquestion exactly. But when
someone does start talking abouttheir pain and their loss, It's
so important to just listen.Listen. Listening is so
powerful.
(20:05):
And, you know, Jill and I, we'vehad a loss of a son. We know
what it's like. We know a lot,as we put in the book, of things
that helped us and things thatdidn't. But when someone walks
up to us and says they've losttheir child and they start
telling us about what happened,it's we're so tempted in any
(20:28):
conversation. We're in any typeof conversation, we're all as
human beings tempted to do this,but we're so tempted to go,
yeah, I know.
And when we lost Bo, thishappened, this happened, you
know. But, man, I'll tell you,the Holy Ghost just says,
listen. People who are grieving,they so desperately just need
to, they just need to pour outtheir heart. They just need to
talk. And that's something eventoday, we had a lady come to us
(20:52):
and start telling us all abouther loss of her son, how the
book has really, really helpedher to come out of her grief.
And actually, it was, it helpedher to begin to grieve because
she was afraid to grieve before.And as a result of grieving,
she's beginning to heal.
John Tesh (21:09):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (21:09):
But but my point in saying this, and this
happened yesterday at the end ofthe conference, another person
came to us and told us aboutlosing their son. But you have
to restrain yourself because youwanna say, I know because blah
blah blah, you know.
But what's most healing to themis listening. It's not, yeah, I
know because blah blah blah, youknow. And that's kind of a rule
(21:30):
in life that we need to reallylearn. It's not when someone's
telling us, hey, man, yesterdayI had this this miracles, this
great thing happened.
We said, oh, yeah. When I didthis, it happened to me. Well,
wait a minute. You just stoletheir thunder. You know what I'm
saying?
John Tesh (21:43):
Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (21:44):
So it's kind of a rule of life. And so
especially when someone'shurting and grieving, just just
listen. Be a good listener.That's one segment in our book
as well, just the power of justbeing present and listening to
someone who's hurting.
John Tesh (21:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Jill, Jill, you made me smile before
because it you know, listen, ona much different scale when I
was diagnosed with what thedoctors called thought was
terminal cancer. Right? Conniewas very very good about
protecting me from other peoplebecause we had learned Proverbs
18:21, death and life are in thepower of the tongue.
(22:19):
And so we didn't want anybody'stongue speaking death over me.
We said these are really closefriends who would come over,
you know, after like four orfive surgeries and and you know,
two rounds of chemo and I'm at adinner party with them and and
they would come over and theywould just they would look me
right in the eyes and go, howare you? You know? And it was it
was like what I heard, right,what I heard was, how many more
(22:41):
minutes do you have to live? Youknow?
Charlie LeBlanc (22:45):
Yeah, exactly. I don't wanna go- I'm listening.
I don't wanna read I don't wannamake my story bigger than yours,
but obviously, but I, thatthing, it really, really
resonated with me.
Yeah.
John Tesh (22:55):
Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (22:56):
And Jill had one.
John Tesh (22:57):
Go ahead.
Charlie LeBlanc (22:58):
I'm sorry. Go ahead. No. Finish.
John Tesh (22:59):
Yeah. No. I was I was just gonna I was getting going
on to the next rule ofengagement.
Charlie LeBlanc (23:03):
Well, let me just say this too that there was
a precious pastor friend of oursthat walked up to Jill. It's
about three months after Beaupassed, and just looked at her
and said, you're doing good?You're doing good? How are you
doing? You're doing good?
And Jill just looked at him andwent, she said, no. Yeah. I'm
not doing good. She goes, I justlost my son. And he went, oh,
(23:27):
oh, oh, praise well, praise thelord. Hallelujah. Okay. Amen. It
just kinda skipped a sit youknow, stuttered and-
John Tesh (23:33):
Sometimes sometimes it has-
Charlie LeBlanc (23:35):
Don't mess with Jill in these situations.
John Tesh (23:36):
No. I got you. She and Connie are very much where
it's like it's really it'sinteresting that we're, you
know, we're talking about thisbecause I know, you know, a big
ministry for you with, you know,with this book is to use what
you went through losing your sonas the cornerstone to help
(23:57):
people in all areas. And when wetalk about grief, you know, I
was, I was grieving when I wasgoing again, let's talk about
me.
When I was when- you're goingthrough the cancer treatment,
all the rest of the stuff, andand you know, lost a kidney and
(24:18):
had the you know, I mean, allkinds of stuff. Right? It's it's
it you know, you're a differentperson. Right? I mean, you're
you become a different personbecause you-
Things don't work the same wayand you're looking at maybe not
so much of a future and all youknow, and all the rest of that
stuff. And so when people comeup, it still happens to me when
people come up to me and they'lljust go, wow, you look great.
(24:42):
What else could that mean?
Charlie LeBlanc: What else could that mean? (24:44):
undefined
John Tesh (24:46):
Right. What else could that mean? I know. So so
this I mean, this is thehandbook for how to talk to
people and when they're goingthrough I mean grief could well
who is it? Victor Franco whowrote Man's Search for Meaning.
He, you know, the holocaustsurvivor. You know, he said that
you know, it's you know, griefis like suffering rather.
(25:08):
Suffering is like a gas. Itcompletely fills the vessel that
it inhabits. So it can be again,it could be, you know, losing
whatever, losing your vitality,you know, losing your purpose in
life. We're grieving all ofthat, and you address all of
that in here.
Jill LeBlanc (25:28):
That was such a great interview with John, and I
just wanted to reiterate howcrucial it is to remember with
your your friend, your loved onewho has lost someone really
special. It it was huge for usand still is to this day. When I
(25:49):
hear people talk about our sonand, you know, something really
special about him, it it justafter sixteen years, it makes me
tear up. It just hits me in sucha special place. So remember
your friends and loved ones asthey walk through all the
seasons, all the holidays,Christmas, their birthday,
(26:12):
Thanksgiving, all of thesefamily holidays, Father's Day,
Mother's Day, they're so hardonce you've been through this
kind of a loss. So, just keepkeep your friend in mind, your
loved one, and can just keepreaching out to them. It'll mean
the world to them.
Charlie LeBlanc (26:29):
Yeah. And may I add just a little something that
just from a practicalstandpoint, we actually put on
our calendar reminders becausewe have so many friends who have
lost dearest loved ones. So weput reminders and when we
remember and we'll give them alittle text or send them a card
in the mail in advance. So, Ijust appreciate that so much.
(26:52):
So, we hope you enjoyed it.
Share this with others, andwe'll look forward to the next,
we're gonna finish it up onthe next time, yeah, the rest of
this interview. So God bless youand thanks for watching.
Hey, everyone. Happy Tuesday. Thanks for
joining us.
Charlie LeBlanc (00:09):
Yeah. Thanks for being back with us. We have
an awesome, episode coming upwith John Tesh, an interview
that he did with us actually.And it's actually the second
part, so if you haven't seen thefirst part, please go back and
watch the first part. It'llreally bless you.
But we're excited to presentthis second part to you right
now, so God bless. Enjoy it.
John Tesh (00:29):
So Jill and Charlie, I'm interested in knowing how
when your friends, and you hadmany of them, friends, you know,
other family members, when youwere going through this, how did
they react to you?
Jill LeBlanc (00:45):
Different ones were, it's kind of interesting
because some people would wouldjust act like nothing ever
happened. And they would try tomaybe they were uncomfortable
talking about our loss to us,and so they would say, "Oh, I
heard you had a grandson. Isn'tthat something? You had a
(01:06):
grandson."
John Tesh (01:07):
Oh my gosh. Wow.
Charlie LeBlanc (01:08):
It's almost like, don't think about
yourself.
John Tesh (01:12):
Oh my god. I just get yeah. You gave me chills. It's
terrible.
Jill LeBlanc (01:18):
Yep. They would they would either do that or
they would just try to talkabout everything else except
this. Yeah. Or they would say,so how you doing? Tell me how
you're doing.
And I'm like, I don't reallywanna talk about I mean, I
wouldn't say this, but on theinside, I'm like, I don't really
wanna talk about this to youright now. I mean, this is
(01:41):
really deep and heavy and, youknow, it's just not the time and
you're not the person. And, youknow, some people, they really
care, but they just don't knowhow to.
John Tesh (01:50):
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, which is why this book is
tremendous. I don't know a booklike this where it really is,
and we'll talk about this,really is the rules of
engagement. But I'm interestedin knowing too, how did how did
people react to your survivingchildren?
Jill LeBlanc (02:10):
You know, that's interesting. Many siblings,
people that lose a sibling,oftentimes people will they they
won't look at that as a prime asa major loss. It's like a
secondary loss.
John Tesh (02:30):
No.
Jill LeBlanc (02:30):
Because they'll go to the sibling like, "Oh, how
are your parents?"
You know, they won't necessarilyacknowledge it to the sibling
because it's a major loss formany siblings to lose their
brother or sister. And thiscarries on even into older ages.
(02:52):
Like we were talking to someoneI was talking to someone
recently that their sibling, Ithink they were in their
fifties. And, you know, to somepeople that's like really old.
It's not that old anymore to me,but, you know?
So when I was younger and wouldhear of someone dying in their
fifties, I would think, oh gosh.Well, they were they were old
anyway. But some people thatthey're in their fifties or
(03:18):
sixties and they lose a sibling,and that's devastating to them.
Because to them, that was theirbrother or their sister who they
were so close with, but otherpeople don't they don't
recognize that write off if theyhaven't walked through it. That
and our daughters were muchyounger.
They were all in their twentieswhen our son passed. And it
(03:41):
just, you know, their closestfriends were sensitive to it
because they were also friendsof our son. Most people didn't
send comfort and sympathy andcompassion to our daughters for
them as much as they alwaysasked about us and how we were
(04:03):
doing. And that always made mesad.
Charlie LeBlanc (04:05):
Yeah. I think we added an example in the book
where we have some close friendsthat lost their father, this one
couple. And so, you know, theylost him and they were just
broken, our friend and his wife.And he had lost his father, she
(04:26):
had lost her father-in-law whoshe was really close to and
loved him like a father. And sothe pain of that loss is there.
People are coming to the son andsaying, you know, we love you.
Jill LeBlanc (04:44):
And the father was pastor of a church.
Charlie LeBlanc (04:46):
Yeah. Pastor of a church and and his son
actually took it over. But it'skinda like she told us, the the
the son, daughter-in-law toldcame to us and she said she
said, you know, people arealways coming to me and saying,
"How's your husband?" You know?
Or, "How's your mother-in-law?"But she said, no one was
(05:08):
acknowledging the fact I lost myfather-in-law and and I loved
him. He was and actually, shewas from a broken family. And so
she she looked to him like adad. So there was just I think
these people are missing wherethere are people hurting all in
a lot of different places whenthere's a loss.
(05:29):
And we really need to besensitive to to all those little
places like a a daughter-in-law,you know, a brother, a sister, a
distant cousin. You know, we tobe honest, we were hurting so
bad that we weren't aware of iteven. I mean, we were just so
hurting. We didn't realize thatboth cousins and my sisters and
(05:51):
brothers were hurting. My momand dad were hurting.
And, you know, I think it's justreally important, and we put a
lot of that in the book, just tobe aware of of all the the the
pain that goes out and and tojust be aware of that so that
you can love each other and helpeach other. And and I want might
(06:12):
wanna add something else thatwas very interesting with our
own family, with our twodaughters. It was interesting
because they were like, I hopemom and dad are okay. So they're
like, when we'd get together,they would be like, you know,
they'd be really super sweet andbut they they wouldn't talk
about Beau. This is thebeginning stages.
(06:32):
Wouldn't talk about Beau becausethey were they were even afraid
to, like, bring it up so thatthey didn't want us to start
grieving or crying or whatever.And in the same way, we were
approaching them like, oh, wedon't wanna don't wanna bring up
Beau to hurt them, you know, toget them on in a bad place. So
it was like this weird thing,you know. And so finally, we
just all we just talked. Wesaid, listen. It's the elephant
(06:55):
in the room. We we all have thispain. We all have this loss.
Let's just talk about it. And wedid and we enjoyed it.
And today, it's very easy tojust talk about Beau, remember
nice things about him, sharemoments. And it's just I think
that that was something that wewe had to we learned pretty
quickly, but but it wassomething that we put in the
(07:15):
book and we all need to learnhow to that that that elephant
in the room, like Jill wassaying a minute ago, you know,
people would come up and, youknow, why don't they just say,
you know, I can't imagine whatit's like to lose Beau. He was
such a beautiful young man. Weloved him so much and we miss
him, but I can't imagine how youdo, you know. That just touches
(07:38):
us so deeply.
People are afraid to mention hisname because they're afraid
they're gonna bring it up andyou're gonna get back in the
grief. And it's like you realizethat when you lose a son or you
lose the one you really love,they're on your mind all the
time. So it's not like you'regonna you bringing them up, it's
not gonna, you know, cause me togo into any new grief or
anything. Hey, it blesses us.
(08:00):
It helps us. And so, you know,John, I was sharing this same
idea. And of course it's in thebook with a pastor. And the
pastor was interviewing us andhe said, Charlie, after I read
your book, he said, I'm actuallygonna be a better pastor now
because for all the people thatare losing their loved ones in
my church, he said, now he says,I feel like I have more
(08:22):
empowerment now to be able to goand minister to them and say
their son's name, say theirhusband's name, you know, and it
say their name. That's just areal important thing.
We love to hear, our son's name.And, yeah, you say, well, you
don't wanna hurt them. There's alittle sting, of course.
John Tesh (08:43):
Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (08:43):
But it's okay. You remember them so you want
you wanna talk about them. It'sreally true.
John Tesh (08:50):
Yeah. You know, we've had the, we've had advice on the
on the radio show before aboutabout dealing with well, how how
to talk to people who are whoare grieving. And every time we
do something like that, theadvice comes from a psychologist
or a psychotherapist. And sothis this to me right now, this
(09:11):
moment with you guys, Irealized, I had the revelation
that, okay, so that stuff'scoming out of their experience
talking to people or out of abook or out of their training
that they that that they got.Bless their hearts, as my mom
would say.
But you guys came right out ofbunker. I mean, you came you
(09:34):
were you were fully engaged, notonly with the enemy, but with
the grief. And also with peoplewho again, you know, they they
don't have any training as tonone of us have any training as
to how to talk to people who aregrieving. It's like then you
feel guilty, you know, beingyeah. Like, oh, having bad
feelings about about thosepeople.
So one of my favorite parts, itmight even be my favorite part
(09:57):
of the book, is is your rules ofengagement. And again, this book
is called When Loss Comes ComesClose to Home. And when you go
to chapter 14, it's right here,rules of engagement and it's
your orders that soldiersdefinition, orders that soldiers
fighting in a war are givenabout what they can and cannot
do. And so rule number one thatyou guys wrote down here, it's
(10:20):
rules of engagement with peoplewho are grieving. Right?
So is love them. What does thatlook like?
Charlie LeBlanc (10:27):
Well, you know, we the Bible says to weep with
those who weep and rejoice withthose who rejoice. And so too
often as Christians, we feellike we have to fix people,
(10:48):
Christian or non Christian. Ifsomeone's hurting, you wanna fix
them. I have an answer. I have asolution for you.
You know? And that's a greatheart and everything, but some
things just need time to behealed. This in particular, a
loss like this, it's just gonnatake some time. And, and so the
(11:09):
Bible says to weep with thosewho weep. So to us, love looked
like people that served us.
I don't wanna say served us, butcame to us and helped us get
through those first time,bringing us food, you know,
offering to help us around thehouse. Love was with us.
(11:32):
They were patient with us.
Exactly.
Jill LeBlanc (11:34):
You know?
Charlie LeBlanc (11:34):
You mentioned Andrew and Jamie Womack, you
know, they're great you know,Andrew's an amazing Bible
teacher, And yet, you know,you'd have thought he would have
sat me down and said, Charlie,this scripture says scripture
scripture scripture scripture.But, no, he loved us. And and I
have to say that, you know,we've been leading worship for
(11:55):
Andrew for over twenty years andI have to say that the love that
him and Jamie have showed us inthe last fifteen years after
losing Beau, the patience, likeJill said, the patience they had
with us. When others weresaying, Charlie and Jill need to
get over this, you know, it'stime for them to grow up and
(12:16):
mature and get over this. Well,they didn't experience losing a
son, so what can they speak onit?
But Jamie and Andrew had thematurity enough to just love us,
and they allowed us to begin tolead worship in their meetings
even when they knew that we werestill hurting.
John Tesh (12:33):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (12:34):
In fact, there were sometimes we would lead
worship and then go back to ourhotel room and get on the phone
with our daughters and just weepand just talk and visit. And
they never, never condemned usor said, you need to be on that
front row if you're gonna leadworship, as an example to the
people. They never did. And thenwe graduated from the hotel room
(12:57):
to sitting in the back of theauditorium after we left the
churches. And then we graduatedto the front I graduated to the
front row.
I had the heart and the strengthto sit, and then Jill eventually
did. And there's another wholestory there. There's a lot of
testimonies there. But but Ijust wanna say love, you know,
just people that were patientwith us, that loved us, that
(13:18):
didn't try to fix us, and I havea story about that too, but we
can get to that later.
John Tesh (13:22):
Okay. So number one rule of engagement for talking
to people who have gone throughand and again, it's could be
losing a child. It could belosing a best friend. A lot of
people feel extreme grief fromlosing an animal because they
you know, animals become a lifewitness for us and and it's it's
(13:43):
very hard to to to say to saygoodbye. So number two is don't
judge.
Charlie LeBlanc (13:49):
That's good. I like that. Whoever wrote that,
that was good.
John Tesh (13:54):
I was gonna say I was gonna say, didn't you write
this? Whose book is this?
Charlie LeBlanc (13:58):
You you comment on that, not judging. You know,
it's like such a big deal.
Jill LeBlanc (14:03):
Yeah. You know, it's like what we were saying
that, you know, we would kindacatch word through the grapevine
that, you know, people weretalking behind our backs and
saying the things like, youknow, I can't believe Charlie
and Jill are still, you know,just still so sad all the time
(14:23):
and and still grieving after solong. And, you know, they should
be over it by now. And, youknow--
John Tesh (14:32):
People are actually saying this? I mean, they they
overheard people saying this?
Jill LeBlanc (14:35):
That's what we've heard.
John Tesh (14:37):
Oh, wow.
Charlie LeBlanc (14:37):
We didn't hear, but we heard.
John Tesh (14:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Go ahead.
Jill LeBlanc (14:41):
And so it's you just don't know what's going on
in the inside of a person. And,you know, like with me, I like I
said, I was in autopilot in, youknow, leading worship for quite
a while. And then just as Icontinued to take baby steps
(15:04):
forward, the Lord would meet methere. And he didn't judge me
because he saw my heart. He knewour pains, you know, he knew
where we were at.
And so he just gently walkedalong with us, but other people
couldn't see how patient theLord was with us, but they
thought that we should, youknow, be further along by now.
(15:28):
And so you just you know,sometimes grieving people, we
address this in the book. Youknow, they they can be you know,
I use the word 'verklempt' inthe book.
John Tesh (15:39):
Yeah.
Jill LeBlanc (15:39):
We have a chapter called "Veklempt" because
grieving people, they act kindof veklempt, at least early on.
Charlie LeBlanc (15:48):
It's a Yiddish word.
Jill LeBlanc (15:49):
It's a Yiddish word for meaning that someone is
just kind of out of sorts. And,you we were that way for a
while, and and people get thatway for for a while. And in some
ways, it can change you forever,but, you just you just kinda
become a bit dysfunctional andand so people judge that.
John Tesh (16:13):
I think a lot of people feel, reading the book
too, I mean, I think a lot ofpeople feel like you should just
go back to the person- you'renot the same person. Right?
Jill LeBlanc (16:22):
Right. No.
Charlie LeBlanc (16:23):
You're not. Yeah. Right.
Jill LeBlanc (16:24):
Oh, gosh. It's like a part of you has been cut
off, really.
John Tesh (16:27):
Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (16:27):
It's like the CS Lewis example with the the
peg leg. He said, you know, theperson who has his leg
amputated, you know, he he wakesup every morning and puts that
prosthetic on. And so, know, hemay look like he's walking fine,
but he'll never forget that thatthere.
(16:49):
And so, you know, you do getbetter. You know, you get
stronger by the grace of God.You you you know, Jesus heals
the broken heart. The Bible sayshe's close to those who who have
a broken heart. So he healsbroken hearts and he does
comfort those whom who mourn,but you never forget.
And so back to your thing aboutjudging, you know, people just
(17:13):
in general, the Bible says,judge not lest you be judged.
And so we should never judgesomeone when they're going
through a difficult time. Soyou've been through a divorce,
you know, people right awaystart think- judging people in
their recovery.
John Tesh (17:27):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (17:27):
Whatever it is, you just, we as believers, as
Christians, as good human beingsshould never be judging others.
We should just let people lovethem and let God, you
know, help them.
John Tesh (17:39):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (17:39):
Help them.
John Tesh (17:40):
Yeah. Rule number three, and and I need help with
this, is allow the griever totalk when they're ready. How do
you know when they're ready?
Jill LeBlanc (17:52):
Well, you just kind of listen, and you let them
kind of drive the ship, if youwill. Just if they're if they're
start talking about you know,like, friend of ours lost her
husband a couple of years ago,and, you know, she was just she
(18:14):
was just you know, even thoughhe was ill for a long time, the
death still came kind ofsuddenly. And and she just
didn't wanna talk with everyoneshe knew about it all the time.
And until later, she, you know,just after time, she she got to
(18:35):
where she was okay to to mentionthings. And and so you would
hear her bring bring his name upand and just mention different
things about the journey.
And, so you just kinda have tobe sensitive. You know, we talk
about this in the book, youknow, in that particular rule
and in other places too. Youjust, you just be sensitive.
(18:57):
Don't just just barge in andsay, how are you doing? Because
you're sincere and and you care,but when you ask that question,
it just takes them right back toto why they're at this place.
You know?
John Tesh (19:14):
Yeah. Yeah. I I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Jill LeBlanc (19:17):
People would ask us that. Like, how are you
doing? And I would have been,you know, maybe, you know, not
thinking about it for thatmoment. And all of a sudden, I'm
thinking about it again. I'mthinking about the fact that my
son died because someone justasked how I'm doing.
Right. You know? So you justkinda have to follow their lead
a little bit. And and, if theybring it up and start talking,
(19:40):
then, you know, the door isopen.
John Tesh (19:42):
Right. Right. You know, it's it's go ahead.
Charlie LeBlanc (19:44):
John, I'm sorry. But if I could say
something else that's veryimportant in this particular
thing, it doesn't answer thatquestion exactly. But when
someone does start talking abouttheir pain and their loss, It's
so important to just listen.Listen. Listening is so
powerful.
(20:05):
And, you know, Jill and I, we'vehad a loss of a son. We know
what it's like. We know a lot,as we put in the book, of things
that helped us and things thatdidn't. But when someone walks
up to us and says they've losttheir child and they start
telling us about what happened,it's we're so tempted in any
(20:28):
conversation. We're in any typeof conversation, we're all as
human beings tempted to do this,but we're so tempted to go,
yeah, I know.
And when we lost Bo, thishappened, this happened, you
know. But, man, I'll tell you,the Holy Ghost just says,
listen. People who are grieving,they so desperately just need
to, they just need to pour outtheir heart. They just need to
talk. And that's something eventoday, we had a lady come to us
(20:52):
and start telling us all abouther loss of her son, how the
book has really, really helpedher to come out of her grief.
And actually, it was, it helpedher to begin to grieve because
she was afraid to grieve before.And as a result of grieving,
she's beginning to heal.
John Tesh (21:09):
Right.
Charlie LeBlanc (21:09):
But but my point in saying this, and this
happened yesterday at the end ofthe conference, another person
came to us and told us aboutlosing their son. But you have
to restrain yourself because youwanna say, I know because blah
blah blah, you know.
But what's most healing to themis listening. It's not, yeah, I
know because blah blah blah, youknow. And that's kind of a rule
(21:30):
in life that we need to reallylearn. It's not when someone's
telling us, hey, man, yesterdayI had this this miracles, this
great thing happened.
We said, oh, yeah. When I didthis, it happened to me. Well,
wait a minute. You just stoletheir thunder. You know what I'm
saying?
John Tesh (21:43):
Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (21:44):
So it's kind of a rule of life. And so
especially when someone'shurting and grieving, just just
listen. Be a good listener.That's one segment in our book
as well, just the power of justbeing present and listening to
someone who's hurting.
John Tesh (21:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Jill, Jill, you made me smile before
because it you know, listen, ona much different scale when I
was diagnosed with what thedoctors called thought was
terminal cancer. Right? Conniewas very very good about
protecting me from other peoplebecause we had learned Proverbs
18:21, death and life are in thepower of the tongue.
(22:19):
And so we didn't want anybody'stongue speaking death over me.
We said these are really closefriends who would come over,
you know, after like four orfive surgeries and and you know,
two rounds of chemo and I'm at adinner party with them and and
they would come over and theywould just they would look me
right in the eyes and go, howare you? You know? And it was it
was like what I heard, right,what I heard was, how many more
(22:41):
minutes do you have to live? Youknow?
Charlie LeBlanc (22:45):
Yeah, exactly. I don't wanna go- I'm listening.
I don't wanna read I don't wannamake my story bigger than yours,
but obviously, but I, thatthing, it really, really
resonated with me.
Yeah.
John Tesh (22:55):
Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc (22:56):
And Jill had one.
John Tesh (22:57):
Go ahead.
Charlie LeBlanc (22:58):
I'm sorry. Go ahead. No. Finish.
John Tesh (22:59):
Yeah. No. I was I was just gonna I was getting going
on to the next rule ofengagement.
Charlie LeBlanc (23:03):
Well, let me just say this too that there was
a precious pastor friend of oursthat walked up to Jill. It's
about three months after Beaupassed, and just looked at her
and said, you're doing good?You're doing good? How are you
doing? You're doing good?
And Jill just looked at him andwent, she said, no. Yeah. I'm
not doing good. She goes, I justlost my son. And he went, oh,
(23:27):
oh, oh, praise well, praise thelord. Hallelujah. Okay. Amen. It
just kinda skipped a sit youknow, stuttered and-
John Tesh (23:33):
Sometimes sometimes it has-
Charlie LeBlanc (23:35):
Don't mess with Jill in these situations.
John Tesh (23:36):
No. I got you. She and Connie are very much where
it's like it's really it'sinteresting that we're, you
know, we're talking about thisbecause I know, you know, a big
ministry for you with, you know,with this book is to use what
you went through losing your sonas the cornerstone to help
(23:57):
people in all areas. And when wetalk about grief, you know, I
was, I was grieving when I wasgoing again, let's talk about
me.
When I was when- you're goingthrough the cancer treatment,
all the rest of the stuff, andand you know, lost a kidney and
(24:18):
had the you know, I mean, allkinds of stuff. Right? It's it's
it you know, you're a differentperson. Right? I mean, you're
you become a different personbecause you-
Things don't work the same wayand you're looking at maybe not
so much of a future and all youknow, and all the rest of that
stuff. And so when people comeup, it still happens to me when
people come up to me and they'lljust go, wow, you look great.
(24:42):
What else could that mean?
Charlie LeBlanc: What else could that mean? (24:44):
undefined
John Tesh (24:46):
Right. What else could that mean? I know. So so
this I mean, this is thehandbook for how to talk to
people and when they're goingthrough I mean grief could well
who is it? Victor Franco whowrote Man's Search for Meaning.
He, you know, the holocaustsurvivor. You know, he said that
you know, it's you know, griefis like suffering rather.
(25:08):
Suffering is like a gas. Itcompletely fills the vessel that
it inhabits. So it can be again,it could be, you know, losing
whatever, losing your vitality,you know, losing your purpose in
life. We're grieving all ofthat, and you address all of
that in here.
Jill LeBlanc (25:28):
That was such a great interview with John, and I
just wanted to reiterate howcrucial it is to remember with
your your friend, your loved onewho has lost someone really
special. It it was huge for usand still is to this day. When I
(25:49):
hear people talk about our sonand, you know, something really
special about him, it it justafter sixteen years, it makes me
tear up. It just hits me in sucha special place. So remember
your friends and loved ones asthey walk through all the
seasons, all the holidays,Christmas, their birthday,
(26:12):
Thanksgiving, all of thesefamily holidays, Father's Day,
Mother's Day, they're so hardonce you've been through this
kind of a loss. So, just keepkeep your friend in mind, your
loved one, and can just keepreaching out to them. It'll mean
the world to them.
Charlie LeBlanc (26:29):
Yeah. And may I add just a little something that
just from a practicalstandpoint, we actually put on
our calendar reminders becausewe have so many friends who have
lost dearest loved ones. So weput reminders and when we
remember and we'll give them alittle text or send them a card
in the mail in advance. So, Ijust appreciate that so much.
(26:52):
So, we hope you enjoyed it.
Share this with others, andwe'll look forward to the next,
we're gonna finish it up onthe next time, yeah, the rest of
this interview. So God bless youand thanks for watching.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.