Gino's East of Chicago: Graffiti, Deep Dish, & a Biscuit Crust

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
[MICHAEL] (00:00):
Gino’s East of Chicago!

(00:01):
An iconic deep dish institution started by some cabbies with a building they didn’t know what to do with, Gino’s East has become one of the major Chicago-style pizza joints in its almost 60 years of history. Named after nobody in particular, Gino’s is among Lou Malnati’s, Pizzeria Uno, and Giordano’s as the heavy hitters in its subclass of pizza. Whether they’re the Michael Jordan or the Scottie Pippen of deep dish, they’re undoubtedly celebrated.
A restaurant who stopped trying to prevent its clientele from vandalizing its walls and instead embraced it as part of the experience, Gino’s East is a tourist destination for reasons that extend beyond its food. And speaking of extending beyond, Gino’s has expanded outside of Illinois to bring locations not only to me here in Los Angeles, but all the way to Singapore.
This week on the show, I’ll fill your cornmeal crust of curiosity to the brim with my chunky sauce of knowledge so that you too may know everything I’ve learned about Gino’s East of Chicago. Then, we’ll direct our attention to the people of Yelp to see what they’re saying about the very Gino’s East we just experienced. Stay tuned! This…is the “Fine” Dining Podcast.

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[JACQUIS] (00:14):
Wait, so when you say cabbies, you mean like cab drivers? So a cab driver started it?

[MICHAEL] (00:15):
Couple taxi drivers and a friend.

[JACQUIS] (00:16):
I love it.

[MICHAEL] (00:17):
But like we'll get into it more. I love that they're like, "Well, we have this building and don't know what to do with it.

[JACQUIS] (00:18):
Let's make pizza.

[MICHAEL] (00:19):
Let's do it.

[JACQUIS] (00:20):
Hey man, Uber drivers, y'all need to get on the good foot.

[MICHAEL] (00:21):
Find a venture capitalist.

[JACQUIS] (00:22):
Come on now. Come on now.

[MICHAEL] (00:23):
Hello and welcome to the Fine Dining Podcast. the quest to compare all restaurants to Chili's. I am your host, Michael Ornelas, and in this podcast, we learn the history of our favorite restaurant chains one week before seeing how they compare to Chili's in week two. This week on the show, we will be talking about Gino's East of Chicago, one of the four legendary Chicago deep dish purveyors and the only one currently operating a location here in Los Angeles. And joining me this week to discuss this brand is a fellow Chicago native who you'd recognize from Dropout, his live game show “Comedian Clash,” and Last Week Tonight, I saw you on Last Week Tonight. It's Jacquis Neal!

[JACQUIS] (00:24):
Ah, what up? What up? What up?

[MICHAEL] (00:25):
How you doing?

[JACQUIS] (00:26):
True Chicago people in the house tonight.

[MICHAEL] (00:27):
We did it.

[JACQUIS] (00:28):
I love it. I love it.

[MICHAEL] (00:29):
We made it all the way to the west coast from not a coast.

[JACQUIS] (00:30):
And we still eat our Chicago foods. Anytime there's a Chicago restaurant that comes to LA–

[MICHAEL] (00:31):
The fact that they're available here makes me happy.

[JACQUIS] (00:32):
It makes me so happy.

[MICHAEL] (00:33):
I mean, Portillo’s is still one of my highest scoring. I love a Portillo’s so much.

[JACQUIS] (00:34):
Portillos is good.

[MICHAEL] (00:35):
I get out there often.

[JACQUIS] (00:36):
Yeah. Well, what's up, brother? Thanks for having me.

[MICHAEL] (00:37):
Yeah, of course. You and I were on an improv team for about a month and a half. 10 years ago.

[JACQUIS] (00:38):
I had forgotten about that. Uh I've gotten to the point in my improv where I've like forgotten more [ __ ] than I remember now. But then you reminded me and I was like it all came like rushing back like everybody who was on that team.

[MICHAEL] (00:39):
It’s like meeting someone that you went to preschool with, it’s like “Oh you turned out a human being as well” you know.

[JACQUIS] (00:40):
Yes. Yes. Yes. Good [ __ ]

[MICHAEL] (00:41):
I am here. I've been doing this.

[JACQUIS] (00:42):
I love it.

[MICHAEL] (00:43):
Um well thanks for coming on. Uh we're going to talk all the history. We're going to talk some Yelp reviews and we're going to get into your dream restaurant in this episode. Are you ready to get going?

[JACQUIS] (00:44):
I'm ready, baby.

[MICHAEL] (00:45):
Before we talk about the history of Gino's East, I want to talk about your history with Gino’s East. Have you eaten at Gino’s in Chicago? I know you had told me you had eaten at this one in Sherman Oaks many times. What's kind of your history with Gino’s?

[JACQUIS] (00:46):
Yeah, Gino’s is interesting because I've gone to every deep dish place in Chicago being born and raised there. But Gino’s was probably the one I went to the least. So growing up, Giordano’s was like it, because - you know this and for all the people who don't know this most Chicagoans are not eating deep dish as our normal pizza all the [ __ ] time you know?

[MICHAEL] (00:47):
What…??

[JACQUIS] (00:48):
I know! I know people think that's the only…”Baby you want some pizza tonight?”

[MICHAEL] (00:49):
I'm literally made of sausage. I am made of Italian sausage

[JACQUIS] (00:50):
Listen you can still get the Italian sausage but you know we got the tavern style we got the thin crust the square pizza that's what we have the most so whenever we would have deep dish when I was growing up, Giordano’s was the one we would go to because Gino’s only had like one or two locations and Giordano’s only had a couple either as well, but they had one closer to us. And then as I got older, high school, college age, I would go to a few more local joints more often than like Gino’s. But I've been to Gino’s a lot.

[MICHAEL] (00:51):
And I know you said that this one you've been somewhat regular at.

[JACQUIS] (00:52):
Yeah. Yeah. I probably go to the Gino's in LA like what, like maybe two-three times a year.

[MICHAEL] (00:53):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (00:54):
Like even when they first opened I was there. I was there like that first week I was ready.

[MICHAEL] (00:55):
I famously do not like cheese.

[JACQUIS] (00:56):
I know.

[MICHAEL] (00:57):
I do eat pizza, but deep dish is kind of a challenge for me.

[JACQUIS] (00:58):
Well because it's mostly cheese.

[MICHAEL] (00:59):
It's a lot of cheese.

[JACQUIS] (01:00):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (01:01):
And so, I had been avoiding this and I was like, I'm going to bring Jacquis here because we're Chicago boys and then I'm going to hit him with like, “but I'm probably not going to like it.”

[JACQUIS] (01:02):
Listen, are you lactose intolerant in any way? Like most of us are.

[MICHAEL] (01:03):
No! I love ice cream. I have no problem with lactose. It's like a conceptual thing with cheese.

[JACQUIS] (01:04):
It's the conception of cheese?

[MICHAEL] (01:05):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (01:06):
What does that mean?

[MICHAEL] (01:07):
Just the fact that it's like “Oh we let like mold grow and like cultured it like just like what it is at its core I don't approve.

[JACQUIS] (01:08):
Yeah yeah yeah.

[MICHAEL] (01:09):
And it kind of grosses me out.

[JACQUIS] (01:10):
You have the same problem when people eat like bugs. You're like this is dirty food.

[MICHAEL] (01:11):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (01:12):
That's fair.

[MICHAEL] (01:13):
Yeah. And so you know, hey, people can eat what they want. I'm not going to yuck their yum, but I will yuck it for myself.

[JACQUIS] (01:14):
Of course, of course.

[MICHAEL] (01:15):
And we'll get into it next week when we talk our review of Gino's. But do you want to hear the history of Gino's East of Chicago?

[JACQUIS] (01:16):
I've been waiting for this my entire life.

[MICHAEL] (01:17):
I can tell.

[JACQUIS] (01:18):
Give me the history of a place that's not named after anybody.

[MICHAEL] (01:19):
We're going to jump into this week's Eats Deets.

Eat Deets…Eat Deets…Eatery Details.

[MICHAEL] (01:21):
Gino's East was founded in 1966 by two Chicago cab drivers and their friend who bought a building near the Magnificent Mile, and I quote, "But didn't know what to put in it." According to Sam Lavine, one of the founders, "Someone said, Put pizza in it, but we didn't know pizza from nothing." I'm assuming that's how he said it.

[JACQUIS] (01:22):
That's how that's how Chicagoans talk.

[MICHAEL] (01:23):
I'm literally imitating my grandfather. Like, that's that's how he sounded.

[JACQUIS] (01:24):
You know what's wild about that? Not that people just was like, "Yeah, let's make pizza," because that's how most restaurants start….that cab drivers was making enough money to buy a building.

[MICHAEL] (01:25):
In 1966?

[JACQUIS] (01:26):
Crazy. It’s crazy!

[MICHAEL] (01:27):
It was a few bucks.

[JACQUIS] (01:28):
Yeah. It was $12

[MICHAEL] (01:29):
Do you want groceries today or property, you know?

[JACQUIS] (01:30):
Man, that's what I'm most intrigued about. What was these cab drivers making back in the day? Or how cheap were buildings?

[MICHAEL] (01:31):
I will say it was two cab drivers and a friend.

[JACQUIS] (01:32):
And a friend, okay.

[MICHAEL] (01:33):
So, there was a third person.

[JACQUIS] (01:34):
So the friend was Al Capone.

[MICHAEL] (01:35):
Yeah, my great uncle by marriage.

[JACQUIS] (01:36):
Was Al Capone?

[MICHAEL] (01:37):
He like married into my grandfather's sister's family.

[JACQUIS] (01:38):
Sorry man, where your buildings at?

[MICHAEL] (01:39):
I don't know, but they're loaded with syphilis.

[JACQUIS] (01:40):
Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

[MICHAEL] (01:41):
So, I don't go near them. [CONTINUING] Then they brought in Alice Mae Redmond, a former cook at Pizzeria Uno, to create their dough recipe, which she modified with biscuit making techniques to make the crust softer and butterier than competitors. Her recipe became the cornerstone of Gino's signature deep dish, known for its rustic cornmeal crust and chunky tomato topping.

[JACQUIS] (01:42):
Mmm, that's interesting. I think Pizzeria Uno’s is trash. And it's still around, which is surprising to me. But that is so interesting that she left there and was like, “I can do better.”

[MICHAEL] (01:43):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (01:44):
And did better.

[MICHAEL] (01:45):
I don't know if I've ever had Pizzeria Uno proper.

[JACQUIS] (01:46):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (01:47):
When I grew up in Austin, there was a restaurant that was like inspired by Pizzeria Uno called Uno 360 - that was the highway that it was off of, Highway 360.

[JACQUIS] (01:48):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (01:49):
Logo

[JACQUIS] (01:50):
Of course.

[MICHAEL] (01:51):
It was a knockoff restaurant basically.

[JACQUIS] (01:52):
Yeah yeah.

[MICHAEL] (01:53):
And it was pretty good. So, like I have good associations with Uno, but I recognize it's not the actual Uno.

[JACQUIS] (01:54):
Yeah. Also, shout out to what's her name? Anna Mae. No, that's not right. That's Tina Turner. What's her name?

[MICHAEL] (01:55):
Alice Mae Redmond.

[JACQUIS] (01:56):
Alice Mae. Alice Mae Redmond. Shout out to Alice.

[MICHAEL] (01:57):
Biscuit techniques in the crust.

[JACQUIS] (01:58):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (01:59):
And I kind of see it!

[JACQUIS] (02:00):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (02:01):
Yeah. Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (02:02):
That's tight.

[MICHAEL] (02:03):
Yeah. Gino's became famous for laying a disc of sausage over the entire pie, creating a full layer of meat below the sauce. This indulgent sausage patty pie became one of its most recognized offerings and is still a favorite today.

[JACQUIS] (02:04):
I don't love the full sausage.

[MICHAEL] (02:05):
Are you not really a sausage guy or is it just like too much?

[JACQUIS] (02:06):
I'm a sausage guy on like thin crust pizza. In deep dish pizza, I'm actually - you know this, we just had it - I'm a more cheese only.

[MICHAEL] (02:07):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (02:08):
And then I'll do pepperoni. I will do sausage, but I like it better when it is chunked. And the reason being is because sausage can be hit or miss.

[MICHAEL] (02:09):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (02:10):
So if it's good sausage, that's fine. But if it's bad sausage…

[MICHAEL] (02:11):
You’re committing to…

[JACQUIS] (02:12):
You’re forcing me to have that bad sausage for the entire [ __ ] pizza.

[MICHAEL] (02:13):
I will say one of the things that makes pizza beautiful is when an ingredient isn't hitting, they're usually pretty easy to remove.

[JACQUIS] (02:14):
To remove, or eat around.

[MICHAEL] (02:15):
And they are taking that autonomy away from you.

[JACQUIS] (02:16):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (02:17):
They took away your bodily autonomy.

[JACQUIS] (02:18):
They took away my sausage autonomy.

[MICHAEL] (02:19):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (02:20):
I'm mad.

[MICHAEL] (02:21):
Put that on a shirt.

[JACQUIS] (02:22):
“Give me back my sausage autonomy!”

[MICHAEL CONTINUING] (02:23):
Gino's East became known for its graffiti covered walls.

[JACQUIS] (02:24):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (02:25):
Starting in the 1970s, guests began leaving their marks with pens and carving tools, and the restaurant eventually leaned into the tradition by offering markers to patrons. Even after moving locations and rebuilding the original site, Gino's carried this practice forward, making it one of the most iconic parts of dining there.

[JACQUIS] (02:26):
It's very interesting, too, because to me that feels like a very Chicago thing. Even though this, Gino's East in LA does not do that because they're like–

[MICHAEL] (02:27):
Well, it's all brick!

[JACQUIS] (02:28):
Well, yeah, it's all brick, which you could still draw on brick because…well, go ahead. What were you going to say?

[MICHAEL] (02:29):
I had it in my mind. I was like, should I bring Sharpies and we deface this place?

[JACQUIS] (02:30):
Yeah yeah.

[MICHAEL] (02:31):
And when I went in, I was like, that would be the worst idea. They clearly are not inviting this in any way.

[JACQUIS] (02:32):
They're not. It is not an LA thing. That is the one LA culture that they have adopted at the Gino's East LA is like “Don't draw on our [ __ ] walls.”

[MICHAEL] (02:33):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (02:34):
But you you still do break, but it comes off easily, but it's with chalk. So,

[MICHAEL] (02:35):
Okay.

[JACQUIS] (02:36):
That was one of the big things when the Cubs won their World Series in 2016. We were down 3-1 against Cleveland. Right before game five, instead of Cub fans like we always do, saying like, "We're about to [ __ ] lose this,” everybody went to Wrigley and started writing on the walls and writing on the sidewalk and stuff like that like, "Y'all got this. We still believe!”

[MICHAEL] (02:37):
We defeated the Billy Goat.

[JACQUIS] (02:38):
Well, it was before they won. So, it was like basically inspiration to be like–

[MICHAEL] (02:39):
Well, that's what I'm saying. It was counteracting the curse.

[JACQUIS] (02:40):
It was counteracting. So, and that's a very like, you know, Gino’s East Chicago like drawing on the walls and like, you know, leaving your mark in that way. So, that's tight.

[MICHAEL] (02:41):
The one thing that also stood out to me is carving tools.

[JACQUIS] (02:42):
Yeah

[MICHAEL] (02:43):
I have never in my life–

[JACQUIS] (02:44):
Carved?

[MICHAEL] (02:45):
Understood it.

[JACQUIS] (02:46):
Mhm.

[MICHAEL] (02:47):
I don't get it. Like, and especially when I'm in a bathroom and I see it on a toilet seat, I'm like–

[JACQUIS] (02:48):
Oh, people that carve on toilet seat? Yeah, I can’t do that.

[MICHAEL] (02:49):
That means someone was like kneeling on the ground and like you just think about the logistics of how it gets there and like–

[JACQUIS] (02:50):
Too close to booboo man.

[MICHAEL] (02:51):
“What are you doing?”

[JACQUIS] (02:52):
You're too close to that dookie.

[MICHAEL] (02:53):
Have you ever felt that impulse?

[JACQUIS] (02:54):
To draw on a toilet seat?

[MICHAEL] (02:55):
Just to like carve in anything.

[JACQUIS] (02:56):
No, not really. I guess like I've had the impulse to dig in like the school desk? Like sometimes where you may like dig into and if you have something to do that with. But I feel like that's more defacing than actually trying to carve in the ways that people carve. I would never carve in the toil– if I see a carved toilet seat I immediately think is filthy.

[MICHAEL] (02:57):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (02:58):
Because like your booboo chips, your skin, your ass chips, your ass skin is in them crevices, man.

[MICHAEL] (02:59):
Chips!

[JACQUIS] (03:00):
Them chips is in the crevices. Like the [ __ ] toilet seat is smooth for a reason, so you can easily wipe it up. But if you put little crevices–

[MICHAEL] (03:01):
it's holding on to it.

[JACQUIS] (03:02):
It's holding on to it!

[MICHAEL] (03:03):
You're giving it fingers.

[JACQUIS] (03:04):
You're giving…nah, man. I can't do that. I can't do it.

[MICHAEL] (03:05):
Yeah. I remember driving home from San Francisco, stopping at a gas station, using the restroom, and the entire restroom – it was like a trailer. It was like a separate building. I guess it's an outhouse technically, right?

[JACQUIS] (03:06):
Yeah, yeah.

[MICHAEL] (03:07):
By all definitions. Head to toe, ceiling, toilet, sink, mirror, door, walls, door, everything was drawn on and carved on. And I was just like, whose–

[JACQUIS] (03:08):
“Who's doing this?“

[MICHAEL] (03:09):
“Whose muse is this outhouse?” Who's in here being like, "This is where I paint my masterpiece."

[JACQUIS] (03:10):
I don't know. I don't want to be in the bathroom that long. And I love…I love to…I love being in the bathroom using it, but once I'm done…

[MICHAEL] (03:11):
Yeah, of course.

[JACQUIS] (03:12):
And get the [ __ ] up out of there.

[MICHAEL] (03:13):
Yeah. I'm not looking to hang out.

[JACQUIS] (03:14):
I'm not trying to hang out and like create. I'm trying to lose [ __ ]

[MICHAEL] (03:15):
Imagine the best script you've ever come up with. You're just like, "Oh, I got to get this down."

[JACQUIS] (03:16):
I mean, listen, you you do come up with stuff in the bathroom, but like–

[MICHAEL] (03:17):
Yeah, but you have a phone.

[JACQUIS] (03:18):
It's inspiration in here that you take out of the bathroom.

[MICHAEL] (03:19):
Yes yes.

[JACQUIS] (03:20):
I'm not trying to leave [ __ ] in the bathroom.

[MICHAEL] (03:21):
It's like Severance–

[JACQUIS] (03:22):
I am leaving [ __ ] in the bathroom. I'm not leaving anything else beyond that in the bathroom.

[MICHAEL] (03:23):
I think it's like Severance. Like if you leave the bathroom, you forget everything. Like it’s your Outie now.

[JACQUIS] (03:24):
Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair.

[MICHAEL] (03:25):
Anyways, that was a tangent that was supposed to be about Gino's East, but I think got into a deeper philosophical practice that I just I had to address.

[JACQUIS] (03:26):
We had to. We had to.

In the 80s and 90s, Gino East expanded to several Chicago suburbs and even briefly opened a California location. They tried planting their flag in Manhattan Beach in the late 1980s, but the California experiment didn't stick.

[JACQUIS] (03:28):
Of course not. Not out there.

[MICHAEL] (03:29):
Suburban locations like Wheaton and Lake Geneva, Wisconsin had more staying power and catered to Chicago expats or tourists looking for the city staple.

[JACQUIS] (03:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Manhattan Beach.

[MICHAEL] (03:31):
It’s a vibe–

[JACQUIS] (03:32):
Ain't nobody going to eat deep dish pizza and then like let's go to the beach.

[MICHAEL] (03:33):
It's a vibe that's incongruent with what Gino's is offering.

[JACQUIS] (03:34):
Yeah! Cuz like even if you got abs, after you eat a deep dish pizza, you are going to feel bloated.

[MICHAEL] (03:35):
I want to go nowhere near a beach right now.

[JACQUIS] (03:36):
No! No!

[MICHAEL] (03:37):
I don't want to be seen.

[JACQUIS] (03:38):
No!

[MICHAEL] (03:39):
I don't even want to be seen with my shirt on right now.

[JACQUIS] (03:40):
Not really. I'm like, "Yo, bro, let me…–” you know, the heaviest thing I can eat on my way to the beach is a sandwich.

[MICHAEL] (03:41):
I think it's like a Tupperware of blackberries. Like that's that's the beach meal. Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (03:42):
Yes.

[MICHAEL] (03:43):
To serve fans outside the city, they launched a frozen pizza and mail order business that allowed patrons to have Gino's deep dish shipped anywhere in the country. This move helped build national name recognition without stretching the brand too thin.

[JACQUIS] (03:44):
I recently just saw a Gino's East frozen pizza in a grocery store.

[MICHAEL] (03:45):
I have such a self-imposed stigma against grocery store versions of restaurant food.

[JACQUIS] (03:46):
Yeah. It's usually not good.

[MICHAEL] (03:47):
Yeah. And it's just like to me, you're already…you're kind of cheapening your brand. I mean, yeah, people do have an understanding that if you go to the restaurant, it will be better. So, it's not like it's going to trash your reputation and it does up brand awareness. But I'm always just like…I guess I'm a big believer that I always want the best version of the thing.

[JACQUIS] (03:48):
Of this thing. Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (03:49):
And you know there are grocery foods that I love that aren't tie-in brands or they're just grocery brands and I'm happy with those.

[JACQUIS] (03:50):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (03:51):
I don't need CPK's pizza next to my DiGiorno. I'll just take a DiGiorno and it's fine. You know, it's not going to be the best pizza, but it's not tarnishing a brand.

[JACQUIS] (03:52):
That's fair. I will say the one brand that has a in-store version as well that is–

[MICHAEL] (03:53):
Don't you say White Castle…

[JACQUIS] (03:54):
–that is coincidentally the worst restaurant…

[MICHAEL] (03:55):
Don’t you say White Castle!

[JACQUIS] (03:56):
But I think their frozen sliders are better than like the ones…

[MICHAEL] (03:57):
Well when your bar is that low!

[JACQUIS] (03:58):
Yeah!

[MICHAEL] (03:59):
You know?

[JACQUIS] (04:00):
When I pop them things in the microwave and eat them I’m like “It's not bad!”

[MICHAEL] (04:01):
Even sober?

[JACQUIS] (04:02):
Even sober. I mean I'm not having it often but like the couple times I've had it, I was like “I remember this more fondly than I do the slider.

[MICHAEL] (04:03):
Yeah, at the restaurant.

[JACQUIS] (04:04):
At the actual restaurant. And I grew I mean, White Castle was a Chicago joint. I grew up with White Castle.

[MICHAEL] (04:05):
They were a Wichita, Kansas joint.

[JACQUIS] (04:06):
Well, I mean, yes, they started there, but there's a lot of White Castles in Chicago more, I don’t even think they’re out here.

[MICHAEL] (04:07):
A lot of my mom's side of the family was straight up like, "Oh, you're doing White Castle." I was like, "Don't listen. You're not going to like what I have to say."

Due to structural issues, the Magnificent Mile location of Gino's East was demolished in the year 2000.

[JACQUIS] (04:09):
I remember that!

[MICHAEL] (04:10):
But another location opened just two days later, less than a mile away.

[JACQUIS] (04:11):
Yep.

[MICHAEL] (04:12):
Buona Beef, one of Chicago's premier Italian beef joints, built a new restaurant on the original property in 2003 before selling it to Gino's in 2006, putting them back in their old stomping grounds.

[JACQUIS] (04:13):
Mhm, I remember all of that. It was funny. That was also like the boom of deep dish pizza too. And then when I was in high school and college - I went to college in ' 04 - like Giordano’s, Gino's, all these places. Lou Malnati’s, Eduardo’s, so many places had started to get so many locations, where it just like expanded so far where it was everywhere. And so like that was probably kind of the start of it when they left their Mag Mile location and then was back in there in like 4 years. It was like, "No, now we got multiple locations close to each other."

[MICHAEL] (04:14):
Yeah yeah yeah.

[JACQUIS] (04:15):
And that really kickstarted not only multiple locations in the city, but them going even more national.

[MICHAEL] (04:16):
Yeah. [CONTINUING] New ownership in the 2000s brought a fresh round of expansion attempts, especially in the South. Starting in 2014, franchise agreements led to openings in Texas - they had Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio - Georgia, and eventually Nashville. The reception was mixed - some stores lasted only months, while others became regional staples. Literally none of them are around now.

[JACQUIS] (04:17):
Yeah. So funny.

[MICHAEL] (04:18):
I looked, all their locations are just…they still have one in Wisconsin. All the rest are Chicago, here, and Singapore.

[JACQUIS] (04:19):
Yeah. The one that's had the largest sticking power out of the brands is Giordano’s. Like they've expanded nationally and they've stayed in a lot of the places they've gone to. Everything else has not done well, surprisingly, because…I think everybody, you know, people think all we're eating is deep dish pizza. Not true. In Chicago, we're eating, like I said, the tavern-style thin crust pizza. But when you go as someone not from Chicago, that's what you're gonna get the most. And you realize like I only need this once or twice a year.

[MICHAEL] (04:20):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (04:21):
Right?

[MICHAEL] (04:22):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (04:23):
So those restaurants, Giordano’s, Gino's East, you saw this today

[MICHAEL] (04:24):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (04:25):
That you're supposed to actually like go on a consistent basis to get.

[MICHAEL] (04:26):
And so people are going, they're like, “I can only do deep dish [so much]…” and they're just like, “Whoa, whoa, don't paint us in that corner,” you know?

[JACQUIS] (04:27):
And so because of that, they don't do as well in places that don't have huge Chicago expats and things like that.

[MICHAEL] (04:28):
I definitely think there's something to that.

[JACQUIS] (04:29):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (04:30):
I'm actively excited to go back to Gino's. I'm almost sad that I had assumed it would be too much of a turnoff, the cheesiness.

[JACQUIS] (04:31):
Yeah! That's dope. I'm excited for your additional visits.

[MICHAEL] (04:32):
My blossoming.

[JACQUIS] (04:33):
Yeah, your re-Chicago awakening.

[MICHAEL] (04:34):
Yeah. [CONTINUING] In 2015, the flagship Chicago location added a micro brewery, Gino's Brewing Co. The in-house beer lineup won several national medals, adding a local craft spin to the deep dish experience. Around the same time, Gino's also became the first of the major Chicago deep dish chains to offer vegan cheese as an option.

[JACQUIS] (04:35):
Disgusting.

[MICHAEL] (04:36):
I'm so big on –and like I get it if you became vegan versus like have always been vegan

[JACQUIS] (04:37):
Not deep dish.

[MICHAEL] (04:38):
I don't know, just make your own food. Stop trying to imitate.

[JACQUIS] (04:39):
Yeah, deep dish…my partner is…she's vegan and my partner before that is also vegan, although she would still eat non-vegan food and now she's not vegan anymore. But like vegan cheese from what I've heard is the hardest thing to replicate.

[MICHAEL] (04:40):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (04:41):
And so to have something…

[MICHAEL] (04:42):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (04:43):
…that is mostly that cheese. But like there are some good vegan cheeses and now is probably better than like, you know, 2014 when it was first starting.

[MICHAEL] (04:44):
I always find it funny when I tell a restaurant, "I don't care for cheese," the number of times they'll be like, "Oh, would you like a vegan cheese? It's not real cheese."

[JACQUIS] (04:45):
Nah, that’s even worse!

[MICHAEL] (04:46):
And I'm like, "Look, I'm not trying to have something even mimicking cheese." My problem with cheese is like, "I don't like the flavor, you know? So, why would I want something that's trying to emulate it?"

[JACQUIS] (04:47):
Yeah. And going to be worse.

[MICHAEL] (04:48):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (04:49):
Very likely.

[MICHAEL] (04:50):
But like cashew cheese, just like it sounds weird. And I love cashews, but like that that sounds weird.

[JACQUIS] (04:51):
I love a cashew nut, but not a cheese.

[MICHAEL] (04:52):
Love a cashew nut.

[JACQUIS] (04:53):
Yeah.

Gino's East officially returned to Southern California in 2020 with a location in Sherman Oaks. This outpost gained strong local support and was named “Best Pizza in the Southland” by LA Times readers multiple times. Co-owned by members of the founding family, it became a rare success story for Chicago deep dish on the West Coast.

[JACQUIS] (04:55):
I love them, man. I mean, you know – I told you this before and then we kind of experienced this while we were there

[MICHAEL] (04:56):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (04:57):
Which I think is really dope. And I've experienced this in other Chicago restaurants throughout the country. They love when somebody is from Chicago.

[MICHAEL] (04:58):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (04:59):
Because I mean, you know this, but you know, I had deeper roots in Chicago probably just from being there for so long and living there. There's nothing more Chicagoans love talking about than Chicago.

[MICHAEL] (05:00):
You put something in my head that I think I just had a realization that I do believe rings true.

[JACQUIS] (05:01):
Mhm.

[MICHAEL] (05:02):
I think maybe more than any specific type of restaurant I've ever been, Chicago-based or Chicago style restaurants are the ones where the owners are just more of a fixture in the everyday dining experience. And I think that almost speaks to like the culture of..it's a very proud city. Like Chicagoans love that they're from Chicago. I love that I'm from Chicago despite the fact that it's really been a while since I've spent a significant amount of time there, but like I really love that city and I get excited– like whenever I see the Chicago flag. I mean, you can see I've got that little sign behind me that mimics the Chicago flag.

[JACQUIS] (05:03):
Yeah, I love it! I got Chicago twice tattooed on my body, you know?

[MICHAEL] (05:04):
You know, there's something about it that just feels so like “I know the experience I'm going to get there is a very unique hospitality experience.” I won't say it's necessarily like better or worse than other types of service experiences you can have but I know there will be a sense of pride in it.

[JACQUIS] (05:05):
It is still Midwest. And Chicago has–

[MICHAEL] (05:06):
Hence all the cuisines are going to kill you.

[JACQUIS] (05:07):
Exactly. You're going to have high blood pressure and diabetes probably. But like you'll eat well on the way there. But it's a very social town and there are so many bars - it's a very huge drinking town. And I don't know if this is still true but when I was a tour guide in Chicago for a while…for a little bit Chicago had the most bars per square mile in the country.

[MICHAEL] (05:08):
I can see that.

[JACQUIS] (05:09):
And there's a bar on every [ __ ] block in Chicago. So like you become locals and it's your local dive bar and the owner is very much there and like just around and you know the owner and the owners are…it's a very Chicago thing and I think it's dope that it expands out of the city to other places, it’s really cool.

The brand has dabbled in global ventures too, opening locations in Mexico City and launching a pop-up-turned-permanent-restaurant in Singapore. International menus stayed mostly true to the Chicago roots, though portions and toppings were adjusted for local tastes. These locations served as test cases for how far deep dish could travel while still feeling authentic. I love that note that portions are adjusted for local tastes, which is their way of saying–

[JACQUIS] (05:11):
"Y'all [ __ ] eat too much." Like, come on, bro. We don't need big ass [portions]. We got the two mini joints.

[MICHAEL] (05:12):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (05:13):
And we were even full off of that.

[MICHAEL] (05:14):
I ate half of mine.

[JACQUIS] (05:15):
Yeah. But we got that because we wanted different toppings. We were going to get the regular joints…

[MICHAEL] (05:16):
The big old boy

[JACQUIS] (05:17):
…and those slices would have been even bigger and we probably still would have ate the same amount of pizza…or the same amount of actual in-hand slices.

[MICHAEL] (05:18):
I came home with a full bag of leftovers.

[JACQUIS] (05:19):
You got a bag of food, man. You got a bag of food.

[MICHAEL] (05:20):
That doesn't even account for what I ate there.

[JACQUIS] (05:21):
Yeah. Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (05:22):
I'll be eating good for a while.

[JACQUIS] (05:23):
We’ll be eating good for a while, man. Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (05:24):
But in Singapore, they're not you're not getting that.

[JACQUIS] (05:25):
Yeah. No, they're like, "No, we only need a serving size."

[MICHAEL] (05:26):
Yeah. I saw they had a pasta with roast duck on the menu at their Singapore location.

[JACQUIS] (05:27):
At the Gino's East?

[MICHAEL] (05:28):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (05:29):
That's interesting.

[MICHAEL] (05:30):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (05:31):
That's funny. Roast duck…

[MICHAEL] (05:32):
I looked at their menu and it was like they had a lot of pastas, a lot of noodle dishes.

[JACQUIS] (05:33):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (05:34):
Which makes sense. Asian country, right?

[JACQUIS] (05:35):
Mhm.

Gino's East has been featured on Food Network and Travel Channel and remains a fixture in deep dish pizza debates. While it isn't as widely franchised as Lou Malnati’s or Giordano’s, it maintains cultural credibility with a fiercely loyal fanbase. The sausage patty pizza was highlighted by Duff Goldman on “The Best Thing I Ever Ate,” and the Superior Street location continues to draw locals, tourists, and even the occasional rock band or politician.

[JACQUIS] (05:37):
Yeah, it's funny though, cuz like I said, Gino's East was definitely never number one, or they're number two even in Chicago. Even with the chains, I mean, obviously somebody out there is like “Gino's is my favorite” but like, and when we talk about averages, Gino's was always a little lower down because you had like Giordano’s, Lou Malnati’s, then you had local joints. And then you know, like I said, thin crust pizza was eaten more widely than anything else.

[MICHAEL] (05:38):
I love a good thin crust pizza. I'm also, I mean, maybe I'm a traitor

[JACQUIS] (05:39):
Ahhh. No. Can’t do it. Can't do it. I mean, New York pizza is good. It's good. It's good. It's a good slice, you know. It's good for what it is. I think that tavern style…there are 10 tavern style pizza places that I could have before any New York pizza place.

[MICHAEL] (05:40):
I’ll say this

[JACQUIS] (05:41):
Oh, it's good for walking.

[MICHAEL] (05:42):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (05:43):
Yeah. It's good for on the go. Yeah. 100%.

[MICHAEL] (05:44):
Which is usually how I want my pizza because if I'm sitting down, I have to live with my decisions.

[JACQUIS] (05:45):
Sure. But here's the thing

[MICHAEL] (05:46):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (05:47):
Just like New York. But we also have the tavern style. And then we have the deep dish. We have every type of pizza that you want. And you will find a pizza joint that does it well – multiple pizza joints that do it well. And you just have more options.

[MICHAEL] (05:48):
Do you feel like I'm a traitor for what I said?

[JACQUIS] (05:49):
Yes.

[MICHAEL] (05:50):
And that'll do it for this week's Eat Deets!!

Jacquis, I hope your ears were gobbling up those eery details like a factoid-hungry Pac-Man, because the next few minutes are all about you and your dream restaurant. It's your turn to pitch the establishment that will leave your mark in the realm of fast food or casual dining. The next few minutes are yours.

[JACQUIS] (05:52):
Okay.

[MICHAEL] (05:53):
This is the restaurant of your dreams. But to intro this segment, we need a theme song.

[JACQUIS] (05:54):
Oh, okay.

[MICHAEL] (05:55):
And give me a style, a musical style that we want to hit.

[JACQUIS] (05:56):
Ooh um…I want…let's hit like you know those old like Family Matters, Full House… “Whatever happened to predictability?” It’s like that. That style.

[MICHAEL] (05:57):
Yeah. Yeah. All right. So:

[JACQUIS] (05:58):
This is a restaurant of your dreams

[MICHAEL] (05:59):
And it's going to fill your belly to the seams.

[JACQUIS] (06:00):
It could be deep dish pizza or chicken wings.

[BOTH] (06:01):
This is the restaurant of your dreams.

[MICHAEL] (06:02):
Alright, Jacquis.

[JACQUIS] (06:03):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (06:04):
Tell me all about a restaurant concept that is missing in the world and you find its absence deeply upsetting. Something that you would raise as if it were your child. It must be practical, delicious, memorable. 3 2 1 go.

[JACQUIS] (06:05):
I think we need more soul food restaurants in this world.

[MICHAEL] (06:06):
Yeah?

[JACQUIS] (06:07):
So, my place is going to be a Chicago/soul food place.

[MICHAEL] (06:08):
Into it.

[JACQUIS] (06:09):
So, you got Chicago foods, but it's also primarily soul food. Now, the cuisine, I'm talking baked mac and cheese.

[MICHAEL] (06:10):
Mhm.

[JACQUIS] (06:11):
I'm talking like dressing and you know for white people stuffing cuz I do like stuffing too. But we got dressing.

[MICHAEL] (06:12):
What's the difference?

[JACQUIS] (06:13):
The base. So dressing is more cornbread based and stuffing is–

[MICHAEL] (06:14):
For some reason I thought they were just two terms for the same item.

[JACQUIS] (06:15):
No, I mean no, but some people do put dressing in the turkey, and stuffing obviously in the turkey and you can eat both outside of the turkey as well, but stuffing is more the box [ __ ]

[MICHAEL] (06:16):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:17):
And dressing is cornbread. So we're going to have dressing. We going to have candied yams. We going to have ham with glaze and pineapple and everything. We going to have fried chicken. We going to have everything that you got and you want. But then you also are going to have some Chicago staples, some Italian beef, the Italian combo, the sausage and the beef. We don't need hot dogs. We don't need hot dogs. I know the Chicago hot dog is up there, but I was always like whatever about the hot dog.

[MICHAEL] (06:18):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:19):
I don't give a [ __ ] We going to have a little bit of pizza and everything like that, but that's the cuisine. The experience though.

[MICHAEL] (06:20):
Yeah, hit me.

[JACQUIS] (06:21):
The experience. It is going to be a true lazy man's experience. Like you remember that episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry David created a restaurant? It's going to be like that. Like there's going to be bells at every [ __ ] table. But if you need something, you just ring a bell. And it's not rude. It is like, "Hey, I need, you know–”

[MICHAEL] (06:22):
This is part of it.

[JACQUIS] (06:23):
It's part of it. So, like, people are going to be trained not to just be ringing the bells all the damn time. You know, they ring it when you need it, right? It’s going to have cards at each table, too, cuz I want this to be family style. I don't want it to just be sit down, everybody on your phones. I want like Uno at the table, a deck of playing cards.

[MICHAEL] (06:24):
Oh, card games! Hell yeah!

[JACQUIS] (06:25):
Yes. Cuz I want you playing and talking and fellowshipping and having a good ass time, right? If there is a wait, I want the waiting area to be just as seated as the restaurant area. I don't want nobody standing to wait. Especially if we in places that's cold, you got to be inside.

[MICHAEL] (06:26):
Of course.

[JACQUIS] (06:27):
And then I also am going to have samples given in the waiting area.

[MICHAEL] (06:28):
Hell yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:29):
So like I am a fan of hot water cornbread or cornbread in general. So that's going to be the sample. Just little pieces of hot water cornbread, hush puppies or like honey cornbread. Just something to like, “hey, little taste.” You can also get your drinks in the waiting area so you can start drinking now. So by the time you sit down, you already kind of juiced up. You juiced up and ready to go.

[MICHAEL] (06:30):
Straight up. This place sounds like a last meal someone goes before they die.

[JACQUIS] (06:31):
Listen, when you come out, you may have to go to the doctor to get your blood checked.

[MICHAEL] (06:32):
Like this

[JACQUIS] (06:33):
It sounds so good for you. I also want there to be light music. I am of the age now where music is too loud.

[MICHAEL] (06:34):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:35):
But it's still nice to have. So like, you know, we're playing like Motown joints, you know? We're playing R&B, soul, and we even got some white people music in there that like–

[MICHAEL] (06:36):
But like Michael McDonald white music.

[JACQUIS] (06:37):
Michael McDonald. We got yacht rock. Maybe some Tears for Fears, some Bobby Caldwell, you know, it's going to be something that makes it feel like you are having dinner with your favorite black family.

[MICHAEL] (06:38):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:39):
Like, you know, with your favorite black family and it's all about family and friendship and laughs and actually coming and enjoying yourselves, not just having the meal. The meal is what you are doing because you're there.

[MICHAEL] (06:40):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:41):
But you're there to enjoy yourselves.

[MICHAEL] (06:42):
Of all the restaurants that have been pitched to me– look, people have pitched good ideas before, people have pitched menus that I like. What you're pitching is an experience that I am genuinely getting lost in as you are describing it.

[JACQUIS] (06:43):
Yeah!

[MICHAEL] (06:44):
I am immersed. I am there day one.

[JACQUIS] (06:45):
Day one. That's the thing about restaurant like I'm like what's fun about eating?

[MICHAEL] (06:46):
It’s social!

[JACQUIS] (06:47):
It's a social experience. It's a social experience. It's a social experience where if you need something, you go get it or somebody brings it to you, but it's out of love. You know what I'm saying? It's like I'm here to feed you and make sure you're–

[MICHAEL] (06:48):
Taken care of, yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:49):
Cuz like you know whenever you have somebody who's cooking, especially in a black family, what's the thing you always got to tell the person who cooked? “Sit down and eat your food. You go get your plate. You cooked.” And they like, "No, no, you go ahead. You go ahead." Like, I want that vibe where it's like, "No, no, you go ahead. This is about you.”

[MICHAEL] (06:50):
We want everyone to just have a good time and a full belly.

[JACQUIS] (06:51):
Yeah. And the waiters are also the people who serve the food are also like–

[MICHAEL] (06:52):
They’re all related.

[JACQUIS] (06:53):
It's a big family. It's capitalism, so nobody likes to work but if they're having good days they are happy to like…”yeah come sit down and like get in on this car game real quick” which may you know make service slow, but you know that's the black portion of it. The service is going to be a little slow, but we're not rushing you out of there.

[MICHAEL] (06:54):
Yeah. Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:55):
You know, I feel like we don't need to turn the tables over.

[MICHAEL] (06:56):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (06:57):
And if you are there and you're waiting, the waiting area is also going to be chill!

[MICHAEL] (06:58):
It's taking care of you.

[JACQUIS] (06:59):
You got little bites to eat, you can drink, you can sit, we're going to have some music. [ __ ] it. Like, people might get up and dance in the middle of the dance floor in the waiting area. I just want the experience.

[MICHAEL] (07:00):
Jacquis, thanks for going over all of that with me. I now have a better insight into what you dream about.

[JACQUIS] (07:01):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (07:02):
One last time

[JACQUIS] (07:03):
This is the remix. This is the remix.

[MICHAEL] (07:04):
Yeah. Yeah.

[BOTH] (07:05):
This is the restaurant of your dreams.

[MICHAEL] (07:06):
All right. Now, let's bring things back to reality and see what other people think of the Gino's East of Chicago that we went to in this week's Yelp from Strangers.

We need a little Yelp…a little Yelp from Strangers.
One star, two star, three star, four or five.
So, get a little Yelp...a little Yelp from Strangers.
Give us those complaints while you literally whine and dine! Yelp.

[MICHAEL] (07:11):
Alright, this is Yelp from Strangers
[BOTH ]Five star.
Yelp reviews. Yeah, we did it.

[JACQUIS] (07:14):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (07:15):
Tried to make it collaborative.

[JACQUIS] (07:16):
I'm so sorry. I was drinking water.

[MICHAEL] (07:17):
You gotta hydrate!

[JACQUIS] (07:18):
I was hydrating. I was hydrating.

[MICHAEL] (07:19):
Do you mind if I start us off with the first review?

[JACQUIS] (07:20):
Let's do it.
Five star review.

[MICHAEL] (07:22):
Alright. This is a five-star review from Philip D. from Studio City, California, September 3rd, 2024.

[JACQUIS] (07:23):
Phil D.

[MICHAEL] (07:24):
Five alarm fire. This is not a drill. This is the real deal.

[JACQUIS] (07:25):
You know a white man wrote this [ __ ]

[MICHAEL] (07:26):
Absolutely.

[JACQUIS] (07:27):
Ain't no black person in America would start their [ __ ] sentence like that.

[MICHAEL] (07:28):
What if I show you his profile picture

[JACQUIS] (07:29):
And it’s a black person?

[MICHAEL] (07:30):
Do I have a surprise for you!

[JACQUIS] (07:31):
Hey, if it is, you know that meme of the black dude who's calling the police? That's what it's going to look like. It's going to look like that.

[MICHAEL] (07:32):
If you're one of those impoverished souls who did not know what Chicago style deep dish pizza actually was until as recently as I did while traveling in the Midwest, then imagine my joy at finding it within LA city limits. Get your ass over to Gino's East. That sentence was a lot. There was like parentheses. It was structurally a problem.

[JACQUIS] (07:33):
I love how excited this person is. I know I'm going to make fun of it and I'm laughing at it, but it is a joyful roast.

[MICHAEL] (07:34):
It is!

[JACQUIS] (07:35):
Like it’s a joyful roast.

[MICHAEL] (07:36):
Yeah. The polar opposite of the wicked fast cooking Neapolitan pizza, these phat bois take a whopping 45 minutes to bake. By the way, phat bois. P H A T. B O I S.

[JACQUIS] (07:37):
This is insane. I've never heard anybody actually call a pizza Neapolitan.

[MICHAEL] (07:38):
I'm going to start the sentence over just so you get the full experience of how it ends because it's unreal.

[JACQUIS] (07:39):
Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Okay.

[MICHAEL] (07:40):
The polar opposite of the wicked fast cooking Neapolitan pizza, these phat bois take a whopping 45 minutes to bake. Hustlers and bustlers, YE BE WARNED!

[JACQUIS] (07:41):
My gosh. Listen, I know you was like, "What if I showed you a picture and it's a black person?" I would bet my entire bank account it is not.

[MICHAEL] (07:42):
It's not. I already know what this person look like. I saw their Yelp profile.

[JACQUIS] (07:43):
But I don't know what this person looks like, but I can almost guarantee I bet I know what he looks like. It is–

[MICHAEL] (07:44):
Down to the jawline.

[JACQUIS] (07:45):
Down to the [ __ ] jawline. And it makes me so goddamn happy. Like, does this person– did you see a picture of this person?

[MICHAEL] (07:46):
I believe I remember which–

[JACQUIS] (07:47):
Does he have glasses?

[MICHAEL] (07:48):
He did not have glasses!

[JACQUIS] (07:49):
He did not. Okay. Okay.

[MICHAEL] (07:50):
He looked like you'd find him at a board game convention.

[JACQUIS] (07:51):
I love this person.

[MICHAEL] (07:52):
So, sit down with some friends. You'll need them to make a dent in these dense delights. Order some drinks and some spicy kale Caesar salad and await the sloppy [ __ ] majesty of a Gino's East pie slithering inside to hug you from within.

[JACQUIS] (07:53):
Oh my gosh.

[MICHAEL] (07:54):
A haunting sentiment.

[JACQUIS] (07:55):
The [ __ ] slithering inside you.

[MICHAEL] (07:56):
I never thought [ __ ] would come up in a review that had also “ye be warned” in it.

[JACQUIS] (07:57):
Listen, I've gotten that review before. If you want a [ __ ] Slytherin inside of you…

[MICHAEL] (07:58):
Ye be warned.

[JACQUIS] (07:59):
Ye be warned.

[MICHAEL] (08:00):
Any of the deep dish pizzas are fantastic. My favorites include the Diavala (truffle oil) spinach, margarita, and Chicago fire.

[JACQUIS] (08:01):
Mhm.

[MICHAEL] (08:02):
End of review.

[JACQUIS] (08:03):
That's crazy.

[MICHAEL] (08:04):
I thought so.

[JACQUIS] (08:05):
That's crazy. But I love it.

[MICHAEL] (08:06):
I thought that was an unhinged way to leave a review.

[JACQUIS] (08:07):
I love it. I love it.
Two star review.
Matt M from Los Angeles, California, who has four Italian food reviews. He wrote this on September 5th, 2023. A day in infamy. Hands down, Gino's East of Chicago serves the absolute best pizza in all of Los Angeles.

[MICHAEL] (08:10):
Alright.

[JACQUIS] (08:11):
What an interesting way to start this book of a two star review.

[MICHAEL] (08:12):
Well he’s prefacing like, look if it's on food alone…

[JACQUIS] (08:13):
Okay.I have dined at the original location in Chicago on numerous occasions and the one in Sherman Oaks is every bit as good. All right. Unfortunately, they also have some of the worst customer service in the entire city, which is the reason for this two (2) star review. Let's read it.

[MICHAEL] (08:14):
I also love two (2).

[JACQUIS] (08:15):
Two. Two-star. In case you can't see the letters T W O–

[MICHAEL] (08:16):
Here it is in numerics.

[JACQUIS] (08:17):
As in the number two. Alright. Two star review. Here it is. Let's see what you're talking about, Matt. I called in to place an order for a deep dish pizza. So, he called in. I usually get it to go. Alright. But on this particular evening, my friend and I decided to dine in. That's a very interesting thing because as a Chicagoan, calling in to place your order before you even get there feels so uniquely white suburban.

[MICHAEL] (08:18):
And as a white suburban guy, let me say I understand it when it's a thing that takes 45 minutes to make.

[JACQUIS] (08:19):
True.

[MICHAEL] (08:20):
Where you're like, can you get this started?

[JACQUIS] (08:21):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (08:22):
I get that. If you're getting a sandwich and you do that, that's wild.

[JACQUIS] (08:23):
I get– I know why people do it, but it is a bit, like I said, it is a very uniquely suburban…cuz if you're from the city, you'll just go. But a lot of times what I've done is with people, you'll go, you'll put the order in and then if they say, "Yeah, it's an hour and a half wait” or however long, you just go to a bar.

[MICHAEL] (08:24):
Sure, yeah yeah yeah yeah.

[JACQUIS] (08:25):
Like if you're from Chicago, you just go to a bar, go have a drink, go do something else. You know, that's what the experience is going to be.

[MICHAEL] (08:26):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (08:27):
So, you kind of plan for it ahead of time.

[MICHAEL] (08:28):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (08:29):
As these pizzas can take 40 minutes or more to prepare, our plan was to order it in advance so, the pizza would be in the oven while we were driving up to Sherman Oaks. Insane. A 20-30 minute trip from our area of town, which is Larchmont Village.

[MICHAEL] (08:30):
Which, by the way, Larchmont is not a far enough trek to feel the need to advance order.

[JACQUIS] (08:31):
It’s not, like just [ __ ] go to the pizza place and order the pizza and sit and be with your damn friends.

[MICHAEL] (08:32):
Like, if you're coming from Anaheim, I get it.

[JACQUIS] (08:33):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (08:34):
Larchmont?

[JACQUIS] (08:35):
It's also like, see, you can't sit with your friends for 40 minutes and just enjoy each other's company? Like that's half the fun is being there with your homies. Unless you have somewhere to go.

[MICHAEL] (08:36):
Dare I say? All the fun.

[JACQUIS] (08:37):
That's all the fun!

[MICHAEL] (08:38):
That's why I want to go out to eat.

[JACQUIS] (08:39):
That's why you want to go [ __ ] eat. It's that time. Alright, here we go. I'm already not on this person's side. The gentleman on the phone told me there was no way this could happen. I thought he was joking, but nope. He absolutely positively would not do it. Mind you, this was around 8:30. I specifically asked and was told that it wasn't busy and that there were plenty of seating available. Here's the thing. I agree with this person because what's the number one thing that you know about LA people, or one of the top three things you know about LA people?

[MICHAEL] (08:40):
They use like baby's blood to make their skin better?

[JACQUIS] (08:41):
Number two, they're flaky.

[MICHAEL] (08:42):
Oh yeah, absolutely.

[JACQUIS] (08:43):
It's a flaky [ __ ] city.

[MICHAEL] (08:44):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (08:45):
I'm not going to start a pizza if you tell me you’re coming.

[MICHAEL] (08:46):
If I’m not certain that you’re…yeah.

[JACQUIS] (08:47):
I'm not going to do that. That's not–

[MICHAEL] (08:48):
And by the way, I know friends who will be like, "Yeah, I'm on my way." And they haven't left.

[JACQUIS] (08:49):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (08:50):
“Yeah. I'm almost there.” And they haven't left.

[JACQUIS] (08:51):
And then that pizza is just there. Then it's cold. Now they're like, "I'm giving you a cold pizza if you're not here right on time."

[MICHAEL] (08:52):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (08:53):
Like they're flaky. Of course they're Of course he said. I'm on this person's side. I'm on…

[MICHAEL] (08:54):
The owner's side?

[JACQUIS] (08:55):
The owner’s side, yes. I've ordered from this restaurant numerous times over the years, and it is always worth the drive. After explaining all of this to the gentleman on the phone, I once again asked if I could pre-order my pizza. He wouldn't budge. After some back and forth, he put the manager on the phone.

[MICHAEL] (08:56):
He didn't put the manager on the phone.

[JACQUIS] (08:57):
He requested the manager.

[MICHAEL] (08:58):
You asked. You asked, yes.

[JACQUIS] (08:59):
And then at one point he puts “manager” in quotations.

[MICHAEL] (09:00):
As though the position is in doubt.

[JACQUIS] (09:01):
The “manager” like “Okay, alright. Matt.” I very kindly explained the situation yet again. That's in parenthesis with the exclamation point to him, and even offered to pay for the pizza with my credit card over the phone which should have been more than enough to end this ridiculous stalemate.

[MICHAEL] (09:02):
I will say now if you're paying for it and the restaurant's not losing money. I do think it's reasonable.

[JACQUIS] (09:03):
Here's the thing I learned in retail.

[MICHAEL] (09:04):
Uh-huh.

[JACQUIS] (09:05):
The customer is not always right.

[MICHAEL] (09:06):
Oh, I know.

[JACQUIS] (09:07):
Most of the time the customer is wrong. Most of the time.

[MICHAEL] (09:08):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (09:09):
Right. So, if I'm an owner of a restaurant and an important part of that brand to me is I want to make sure this food comes out to you fresh, ready, and hot, I am under no obligation to break from that brand for whatever reason.

[MICHAEL] (09:10):
To sacrifice that finished product quality.

[JACQUIS] (09:11):
Yes, even if you pay for it. At this point, we're talking…you're almost here, bro. Just [ __ ] come, right? This is…boyyy…he would have wrote a one-star review if he was talking to me. But this guy was relentless. He just kept repeating himself over and over and over again. Alright. Okay. Fine! I told him I would just order the pizza to go. But upon– so now his friends don't even want to [ __ ] like sit down and enjoy themselves, like they just went “Fine, I'll just take it to go.”

[MICHAEL] (09:12):
They're on a fetch quest now. But what comes next is the part of the review that I thought was the most interesting and the whole reason I picked this.

[JACQUIS] (09:13):
Yeah. But upon arrival, if there were any open tables, I would reserve the right to dine in. Nope. No can–. Of course not, bro. He's not stupid. Just say, "Alright, I wanted to go. BUT if there’s tables, then I'll make you take all the food out of the to-go packaging and then put it in the [ __ ] like insert.” You're basically asking me to do the same thing you've been asking me to do just in a different way.

[MICHAEL] (09:14):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (09:15):
Like we're not stupid, bro. I asked him why on earth wouldn't they want to seat us and then sell some beer and wine and make even a salad or two on top of the pizza we were already ordering. This “manager” let me know in no uncertain terms that even though I thought I had found a loophole, we absolutely would not be welcome in the Gino’s East of Chicago dining room. Now, this is in parenthesis

[MICHAEL] (09:16):
I looked up that scene as a result.

[JACQUIS] (09:17):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (09:18):
Have you seen that movie, Five Easy Pieces?

[JACQUIS] (09:19):
No. I know about it, but no.

[MICHAEL] (09:20):
He's just in a diner and he's asking for his meal a certain way and he just wants toast on the side and there's no substitutions. He's like, "All right, give me a chicken salad sandwich. Hold everything but the bread." And they wouldn't do it.

[JACQUIS] (09:21):
Insane.

[MICHAEL] (09:22):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (09:23):
Anyway, I'll go to Paxti’s from now on. Their pizza is almost as good, but thankfully they don't have such a horrible customer service. Never again, Gino's East of Chicago. That is the most entitled [ __ ] that I've ever read. And I 100% am on the side of the restaurant.

[MICHAEL] (09:24):
I'm more toward the middle.

[JACQUIS] (09:25):
Really?

[MICHAEL] (09:26):
Well, one, his review is ridiculous.

[JACQUIS] (09:27):
His review is ridiculous. And I know you said also like if he offered to pay them just why not do it. But him saying the “Well I reserve the right.” It's just like, bro, you are finding a loophole.

[MICHAEL] (09:28):
So literally my point is

[JACQUIS] (09:29):
Yeah. Sure. Sure.

[MICHAEL] (09:30):
And and I say that as a person who - and again the restaurant doesn't know this - I'm not a flaky person at all.

[JACQUIS] (09:31):
Right.

[MICHAEL] (09:32):
I'm coming. I'm going to go. I'm going to get the pizza.

[JACQUIS] (09:33):
Right.

[MICHAEL] (09:34):
Barring I got in a car wreck. I'm showing up and I'm getting it.

[JACQUIS] (09:35):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (09:36):
So you're not losing anything. If I get there at the time where it's warm, I would love to eat it there. I don't think that's a crazy request. But there are certain phrases he used in the review like “Put the manager on” or “I told him I would reserve the right,” there was an entitled tone that lets me know that the way he handled the interaction on the phone was not how he's presenting it.

[JACQUIS] (09:37):
Well, 100%.

[MICHAEL] (09:38):
The way he did it was probably much closer to like a Kareny entitled attitude.

[JACQUIS] (09:39):
100%.

[MICHAEL] (09:40):
Because I have also found that while the customer may not always be right and in many cases is wrong…most the times, you can get what you want as a customer–

[JACQUIS] (09:41):
If you’re nice.

[MICHAEL] (09:42):
…if you're just chill.

[JACQUIS] (09:43):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (09:44):
Like the number one rule professionally like in any industry or like anything. Just come at it like you're trying to be likable.

[JACQUIS] (09:45):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (09:46):
You know.

[JACQUIS] (09:47):
I mean there is a way to do this. If I'm on this phone and they said no, I be like, "Yeah, if you don't mind, let me speak to your manager.I know you're doing your job. Like, I'm not mad at you. You don't make the rules. Can I speak to your manager just to ask him?"

[MICHAEL] (09:48):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (09:49):
That already diffuses the situation.

[MICHAEL] (09:50):
Yes.

[JACQUIS] (09:51):
Right. And then–

[MICHAEL] (09:52):
Like, "Hey, this is a manager call, but it's not coming from a place of anger already."

[JACQUIS] (09:53):
Right, yeah. It's not coming from a place of anger. You said no. You have a job, too. You want to make money, bro. I get it. Then when I talk to the manager, even if this isn't true, I would just be like, "Hey, so here's the situation. We are literally on our way. We don't have that much time. We have like something at 10:00 to go to, so I'm wondering if I pay for what we want – I come there a lot. Love it. If I pay for what we want, can it get started? We'll be there. My GPS says I'll be there in 25 minutes. That way that allows us to eat, enjoy ourselves, and make our next thing on time.”

[MICHAEL] (09:54):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (09:55):
If I hear that as a manager–

[MICHAEL] (09:56):
Why would you say no?

[JACQUIS] (09:57):
I would consider that more.

[MICHAEL] (09:58):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (09:59):
…than how this person– with how this person approached it? Absolutely not.

[MICHAEL] (10:00):
I guarantee he opened hot.

[JACQUIS] (10:01):
100%.

[MICHAEL] (10:02):
He opened like hey I'm like can you just throw in our thing now?

[JACQUIS] (10:03):
Yeah. Like and here's the thing. I know what you're saying. I know I'm on the restaurant side mostly because this person seems like an [ __ ]

[MICHAEL] (10:04):
Yeah.

[JACQUIS] (10:05):
But also, as somebody who has worked in customer service for a very long time, if that is not the policy of the place, I am not going to get you to change your policy of your restaurant by being an [ __ ]

[MICHAEL] (10:06):
Sure, sure sure.

[JACQUIS] (10:07):
And I can think it's dumb. I can be annoyed by it, but I'm not going to change it if I'm rude about it.

[MICHAEL] (10:08):
I'm also going to say the one thing that I'm good at that I don't think he is – because I'll make requests, especially if it's podcast stuff and I'm like I really want to see what the best of the restaurant is like, I really want to get the full experience - I make special requests sometimes. I might call ahead ask for a manager. But like, take the no!

[JACQUIS] (10:09):
Take the no bro! You don't have to come.

[MICHAEL] (10:10):
Yeah. So it's just like, ask don't expect.

[JACQUIS] (10:11):
Yeah.

[MICHAEL] (10:12):
I think that's a great way to navigate it and to just like you're not going to make enemies that way.

[JACQUIS] (10:13):
I'm not going to do this, mostly because if I'm proven wrong, I don't want to be proven wrong on live camera, but I would bet $50 that I could call Gino's East right now–

[MICHAEL] (10:14):
Ha! And get them to do–

[JACQUIS] (10:15):
And get them to do this.

[MICHAEL] (10:16):
I think so, too.

[JACQUIS] (10:17):
I really do.

[MICHAEL] (10:18):
I do too.
I really think I can get them to do this.
Yeah. This is a user failure.
Yeah. And if they wouldn't do it, obviously I'm not really coming, but like I wouldn't be upset. Guess you know why?
By the way, imagine you do it, they start it, you don't show up, and they're like, "This is why we don't do it!!"
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE DON’T DO THIS [ __ ] I'm the reason Matt is mad. But here's the thing. You know why I wouldn't get upset?
Hm?
Because I called you to ask you to do something that I didn't know you could do in the first place, which is why I was [ __ ] asking you.
Yeah.
So, I already knew the answer might be no. So, how I'm going to be mad when I get the no?
Right.
Like that makes no sense to me. Yeah, crazy crazy two-star review.

[MICHAEL PROMO] (10:30):
How about those two Yelp reviews? You can get three more over at my Patreon, the extended Yelp from Strangers segment at patreon.com/finding podcast. In addition to that, you can get a free full fine dining episode every single month that covers a restaurant that is exclusive to Patreon. Recently, I've done Boston Market. I went to one of the 16 remaining in the country all the way in New York City. It was not great, but I got to cover it. And for September, the Septemburger semi-finals and finals episode will be my exclusive Patreon episode. However, it will be FREE. All you have to do is go to the Patreon to hear it. Otherwise, you're going to have to wait an additional week to hear how the tournament ends. That's patreon.com/findingpodcast. Thanks so much. Hope to see you there, Dine-a-maniacs.

[MICHAEL] (10:31):
And that's part one! Tune in next week as we tell you what we thought about our meal at Gino's East of Chicago. In the meantime, Jacquis, where can people find more of you online?

[JACQUIS] (10:32):
Ah, @JacquisNeal on Instagram. I also have a website, jacquisneal.com.

[MICHAEL] (10:33):
Great. And you can follow the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, and BlueSky @finediningpodcast or finediningpodcast.bsky.social. I have a Discord if you want to get in there. Talk food, talk pet photos. I've got a pet channel now. People can post dogs. That's relatable.

[JACQUIS] (10:34):
That's fun.

[MICHAEL] (10:35):
And I have a Patreon if you want a full exclusive new restaurant episode every single month. I do that. I've got my September tournament coming up here soon, so stay tuned for that. I'll be posting brackets on my website, on the Discord, you can enter that and we will find out who's going to take home the championship belt for Septemburger year three. In the meantime, we're going to be here for just one week waiting on our table. Thanks so much for joining. Thank you for joining. In the meantime:

[BOTH] (10:36):
Have a fine day!
[ENDING THEME SONG] Waiting on our table, waiting on our table.
This ep is done and we had some fun now we’re
Waiting on our table, waiting on our table.
We’re so hungry, tummies grumbly.
We gotta continue our search for mediocrity! Yeahhhhhh!
We’ll be waiting, anticipating and
This ain’t the end, next week we’re digging in cause we’re
We got an appetite but just sit tight cause we’re
The search’ll continue when we see you next wee–ee-ee-eeeek!
But until then we’re just waiting on our table…

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