November 12, 2022 • 20 mins
As marketing teams change their focus from successful campaign launches to measuring outcomes in an agile operating model, there is a fundamental shift requiring significant trust from the rest of the organization taking place. As Meghan Nameth describes, it is probably the biggest leap of faith that an organization can take, as most people, especially in senior executive positions, are used to seeing everything before it happens. In an agile, outcomes based world, things are very different.
Listen in as Meghan and I discuss many of the issues and opportunities facing marketing teams and CMOs today including the effectiveness of creative, placement and message, the effectiveness of AI models versus simple triggers, and how complacency is the enemy of progress. Meghan gives some incredible examples and her established opinions on these and other topics.
Meghan Nameth is the former and most recent SVP of Marketing for Loblaw Companies, having led the marketing organization to grow and strengthen some of Canada's most iconic brands from Shoppers Drug Mart, Presidents Choice, No Name, Loblaws, No Frills, Real Canadian Superstore, Maxi and more...
Meghan joined Loblaw in 2021 from Hudson’s Bay Company, where she was CMO and prior to HBC she held several executive positions in brand management, digital marketing, data & analytics and product innovation for PwC, TD Bank & TD Insurance, Mars Canada, and P&G.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Corby with Meghan Nameth (00:45):
So with me today is someone that
I've met a number of times.
I haven't had the pleasure ofworking with her directly, but
when I think about the marketinglandscape in Canada her name
always comes up as, as a leader,as an innovator, as someone who
has.
Really helped to transform thelandscape and help others grow
in their career.
And I'm lucky to have her todaywith me.
(01:06):
Megan Namath, who was the formerSVP of marketing for Loblaws
Companies, which in Canada is abig deal leading all kinds of
brands Shoppers Drug Mart,President's Choice, No name,
Loblaws my favorite No Frills,where I go shopping every
weekend.
a plethora of brands within thatportfolio.
She's also had great experienceformerly the CMO at Hudson's Bay
(01:28):
Company executive positionsacross pwc, TD Bank, Mars,
Canada, and p and g, whichobviously is such a, a, a
breeding ground for greatmarketers.
Megan, welcome to the podcasttoday.
Meghan Nameth (01:41):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
I'm happy to happy to discusseverything marketing.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (01:46):
So you've had, you know, a really.
Interesting and broad career.
I find generally people kind of.
Get focused on a particularvertical or a particular space.
I've had a bit of a balance allover the place.
I've done some different things.
I admire that in a profile.
And, when I look at yours,having touched a lot of
different verticals andfunctions you're someone like me
(02:08):
and I, really look up to that.
Any particular path or reasonfor your path I should say, or
was it just sort of happenstancethat you were able to cross
verticals and functions?
Meghan Nameth (02:18):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, and I agree.
I love that part of myexperience that I've been able
to move around to differentthings.
I think it's, I think there's acouple things I would say first,
I love learning new things.
I think I feel the most happywhen I'm challenged and I'm a
space that I'm sort ofcontinually learning about a new
(02:38):
industry or a.
function.
And I think that, that justmakes me really inspired and
passionate.
And I think the second thing, asI sort of moved to different
places, I realize that there'slot common between different
functions or verticals.
So, you know, There's lots ofgreat things I loved about my
role at Loblaws where, you know,when I learned in packaged goods
(03:00):
was really applicable,
Corby with Meghan Nameth (03:02):
so in, in all of that background and
experience, you know, we all, aswe work, we always find things
that maybe aren't exactlyperfect.
You know, things that we see inour jobs, in our functions that,
particularly in the world ofmarketing where there's, there's
just so much opportunity to testand try and create new
(03:23):
experiences for customers.
Maybe things in the organizationaren't exactly perfect.
It's a process.
It's a product, it's anexperience, a journey.
Can you think back to somethingin your experience, really
across any of the organizationsthat you've had an opportunity
to work at, and think ofsomething where you identified
with your team, you know, one ofthose situations and maybe talk
(03:46):
a little bit about the effortsAnd the ideation that you went
through to make it better,because I find, you know, so
many times we see thesechallenges and we just kind of
skip over it and go to the nextshiny object, but there's so
much opportunity to, fix andtake chances on solving some of
our current problems.
Any anything come to mind?
Meghan Nameth (04:03):
Absolutely.
it's never perfect.
And I think that's what makesthese jobs amazing.
I definitely always talk to myteam.
If, if we didn't haveopportunities, what would we be?
What would we be working on?
And I think, I think there's afew things that come to mind.
I mean, certainly.
During the pandemic, we all hadthe great pivots.
You know, trying to learn how tooperate very differently with
(04:24):
our team become much more agilein our responses.
And that, that I think gave usthis amazing sort of agility and
resilience as, as organizationsand so one of the biggest
changes that I always seemarketing teams go through is
moving from sort of a linearwaterfall approach to really
(04:44):
thinking about an agile, morepod structure where you can
experiment and test and learnand have all of the different
functions sort of representedin.
A more agile way so that you setclear objectives, you have
different people from differentskill sets working together in
real time to make impact andexperiment.
(05:06):
And I think that's been one ofthe biggest changes in our
industry is to really thinkdifferently From moving from a
very linear, you know, I thinkabout a campaign I brief that
campaign.
I see creative, I execute, I Imeasure to really thinking about
what's my objective and how do Ibring the right people together
to in real time experiment andmeet those objectives in a more
(05:28):
agile basis.
that's one of the biggesttransitions that I've seen, and
I think a lot of what we had todo during the pandemic really
prepared organizations for that.
We were all sort of living agilein the moment.
And so now as we're movinggroups to that, then most
industries are going there.
I think that's, that's one ofthe biggest things I see from a
process and kinda tructurestandpoint.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (05:51):
So one of the things that.
I'm hearing more and more aboutis not just moving the way you
described to this agile podbased test and learn model, but
actually shifting the focus ofwhat those pods are doing from
getting the check mark of, Hey,we delivered or launched to more
of an outcomes based, meaning,here's the objective.
Let's shave 2% off that kpi orincrease this KPI by 5%, or
(06:15):
shorten the time by X or Y or z.
Have you found that to besomething that, you know, teams
and our employers and our marketis ready for?
Have you had any experience withthat fundamental shift?
Meghan Nameth (06:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, I think we're doing itin pocket, so certainly we're
not moving full organizations tothat model.
But really thinking aboutsetting that up where it matters
and I totally agree with theoutcomes.
I think.
I think actually Agile projectmanagement is, is really
different than agile agile workstructures where you're really
(06:49):
thinking about you know, thisholiday we really wanna achieve,
to your point, you know, 10%growth in these areas.
So, In real time, we're gonnaall work together to collaborate
on, you know, how is it goingin, in real time, And optimize
and change, creative changecopywriting, change, you know,
tactics as we see the consumer.
(07:10):
And so I think the outcomesfocus is inevitable and it
requires some trust from theorganization.
They'll be able to allow a groupof people to work somewhat
autonomously to reach thatobjective.
That's probably the biggest leapof faith that you know, we have
to move people through becausewe're very used to, especially
(07:34):
in senior executive positions,we're very used to seeing
everything before it happens.
And so releasing that controland trusting our teams.
Have good judgment, make gooddecisions because they'll be
focused on the end.
Objective is, is a bit of elite,I think for organizations, but
definitely one that is worthdoing.
(07:55):
Cause I think, you know, in anytest we've done it produces
better results faster.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (08:01):
I have this theory that many of our IT
and technology partners arescared of outcomes based
marketing campaign and ideationand agile work because I do
believe that sometimes.
The way to achieve the outcomesis as simple as, to your point,
copy changes or a bit of ajourney design change.
It doesn't necessarily require,you know, hardcore IT
(08:22):
development of new capabilities.
And, and, and I thinkcollectively as an organization,
there may be a lot ofefficiencies if we start to
think that way, but maybe we'retalking a little bit ahead of
the market there.
The.
Meghan Nameth (08:32):
I don't know actually.
I think, I think we'rerealizing, and, and the research
really supports this.
Like I've seen research fromCantar, from Nielsen, from
Google.
It's 50% of effectiveness isdelivered by creative.
Re having convincing messaging,engaging, creative is, is really
part of.
The performance.
So I think you're, you're,you're dead on that there's,
(08:55):
there's, there's not only oneway to achieve results.
It's not always placement.
It's not always delivery, it's,it's sometimes placement,
delivery and message.
And so I think we have to sortof wait.
As sort of equally important inthe cycle.
And I think the, the other thingI would say is, you know, some
work when I was in banking thatwe did was, you know, we build
(09:17):
all these very robust predictivemodels, you know, very detailed
and complicated models thatwould help you find the right
customer or find the rightmessage.
And what we actually found thatthe most effective and had the
most ROI was.
So, you know, when you abandon acart and someone you know
follows up with you on an email,or if you are just, you know,
(09:39):
naturally likely to look likesomeone who is doing, you know,
looking to buy a house.
Those kinda trigger basedmessaging, which are, are quite
frankly, easy signals for datascientists to recognize.
Those are actually the highestroi.
And so I think sometimes we, weleap forward to a very complex
IT based solution when we could,we still more yield to get sort
(10:03):
I basic tactic.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (10:05):
You literally just said something I
say to my team all the time, andI frame it a little differently,
but it's the exact same thoughtprocess, which is we often jump
to this AI ml advanced analyticsdata driven ecosystem, and we
forget the most basic if thisthen.
Meghan Nameth (10:22):
Yes, exactly.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (10:24):
Fully aligned, and I'm, I'm, I'm
sitting here smiling, thinking,you know, Wow, like someone else
says the exact same thing.
And I, and I truly believe it.
I, I think about triggers.
I think about, you know, if youdo this, what's the most logical
thing you're gonna do next?
And you know, 80% of the timeyou're going to find the right
next behavior.
So super important point and,and, and thank you for
reinforcing that.
(10:45):
The, the flip side to the wholething is it, It's it's easy to
look for opportunity.
When there's a challenge or agap, it's maybe a little harder
to say, Well, things areactually going okay, we're
hitting our objectives, we'rehitting our targets.
People are happy, the salesresults are good.
How do you as a leader, Thinkabout continuous improvement
(11:06):
and, and being okay to tell yourteam, you know, as I say, we can
always make things better.
And can you think of anopportunity where, hey, you, you
looked across your team, youlooked across your organization,
you said, you know, this isgenerally working, but I think
we should take the time to stillinnovate and ideate and, and
really strive for the next goal,the b ag or, or making it
(11:27):
better.
Anything come to.
Meghan Nameth (11:30):
You know, almost every business I've worked in,
to be honest, becausecomplacency is sort of the enemy
of progress.
You, you can only and, andpeople should celebrate success.
I think that's maybe what holdsus back from sometimes continual
improvement is that we fear thatif we say we need to do more,
that we will diminish theprogress we've made and be the
(11:51):
excellent results.
And so I think it has to comehand in hand that we.
This is amazing.
We have the number one brand weleading market share, whatever
the whatever happens to be trueand to keep that momentum going.
There's always the next and thenever done.
And so I think.
I think it is about just drivingthat balance between we can
(12:15):
celebrate the success and howgreat it's today and still
strive for a bigger future.
And I think you know, I've beenon some amazing brands.
I think back to my day that procgamble, you know, I was on this
massive run of success.
Pet food.
They moved their business frombeing pet specialty to being
much more a wider distribution.
(12:36):
And so they were riding on thesegreat results and I think was an
element of we can continue thisdoing very much.
And it wasn't too long beforethe competition caught.
And, and that's always whathappens.
As soon as, as soon as you, as abusiness are feeling that wave
of success, you're just notalone in the market.
There's always someone.
(12:57):
Also innovating and thinking,and those people who haven't
been as successful are strivingfor.
Piece of growth.
And so I think we have to thinkabout this as as markets are
constantly evolving and we muststay with that evolution and
always be thinking about what'sthe next important milestone for
the consumer, What's the nextimportant innovation we can
(13:20):
bring that makes their lifebetter, makes it easier, more
convenient, whatever their valueproposition happens to be.
I think.
Really critical to set ourteam's eyes on.
We've done amazing.
And to keep being amazing, wemust continually innovate.
And I think, I think settingthat stage of innovation isn't
something we do and then we'refinished.
(13:41):
Innovation is kinda a continualjourney.
Cause that's essence of whateverbusiness you happen to be.
But that, I, I agree with you.
I think, I think often we, weshy away from that cause we
don't wanna take away from thesuccess, but it's, it's just
absolutely critical to keepeveryone focused on, on setting,
continually setting newmoonshots to things differently.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (14:03):
So if innovation is a continual
journey and you think about allof the d.
Verticals and brands that you'vehad an opportunity to, you know,
to help lead and evolve.
What do you see coming down thepipe?
You know, the average marketermight want to just be aware of
or think of where do you see,you know, industry agnostic?
Where do you see things going?
I mean, we talked a little bitabout, data versus the basics.
(14:27):
You talk a little about, agilepod versus waterfall and even,
outcomes versus you know, checkmark delivery of a campaign.
But, but what's next?
Meghan Nameth (14:36):
Yeah, I think, I think we all have to take stock
of the fundamental shift thatyounger consumers have gone
through.
The pandemic has fundamentallychanged how people relate to
each other.
How they communicate with eachother, how we consume content,
where we shop, what we'rewilling to, to do.
(14:58):
There's a, there's I think, avery deep and fundamental shift
that as that generation ofconsumers grows up and depending
what business you're in, that'llhave a or lagging impact, it,
it's gonna be really criticalthat we as marketers learn what,
how those consumers are behavingand consuming.
Cause I think it's gonna be veryfundamentally d.
(15:20):
Just based on their experiencesin the pandemic.
And then I think that might be abit longer term.
I think near term we knowconsumers are gonna have a tough
time in the next couple years.
There is going to be a lot ofstress.
On people's wallets frominflation, from interest rates,
from potentially conditions, andI think consumers will be, we
(15:46):
know this, that they are seekingvalue in.
In In very robust ways.
So whether it's searching for alowest price, whether they're
searching for a retailer thatthey can trust, will give them a
lower price, whether they'relooking for products that last
longer or up cycling andrecycling and sustainability.
And I think all of that isleading to a very different sort
(16:09):
of product and experienceenvironment.
And then lastly, I think it's,it's really this omnichannel
view, and we've been talkingabout omnichannel.
I don't know, at least the lastfive years, if not longer.
I forever just like we've beentalking about personalization
and work within face, but Ithink this idea of omnichannel
(16:29):
and personalization and the, ofcookies, I mean, it's, it's a
bit of a circular conversation.
But I think, I thinkfundamentally consumers are
living online.
They're living there, there'ssuch a blurring between offline
and online that I think.
The retailer or the brands thatwill will win in the future are
those that embrace that blurringvery, very deliberately, that
(16:53):
they really move the consumeracross channels without you
seamlessly.
And I think we've been talkingabout it for a long time, and I
think we're gonna start to seebehavior shift to those to do
that even more, even morequickly.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (17:08):
Yeah, I think all the things you said
are relevant and, and yes, someof these things just will never
go away and to the point.
Constant evolution andconsistent improvement.
You know, the notion ofpersonalization, the notion of
integrated omnichannelexperiences, to your point, they
have been around, they just getbetter.
And, and there's no silverbullet.
(17:28):
There's no magic platform thateven though they all promise
they can solve it, it, it'scomplicated.
And I think as long as we, asmarketers and executives
continue to just fight the fightand make, incremental
improvements hopefully one daywe achieve.
Something that looks better thantoday and to the conversation.
I mean, it's just, it'sperpetual, right?
Innovate.
I ideate.
Make it a little better.
(17:49):
Rinse,
Meghan Nameth (17:49):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think personalization forme is a really interesting cause
as we started down, the journeypersonalization across many
different places I've worked,there became this idea that the
only thing that mattered was oneto one.
And then you couldn't get to oneto one.
You kind of weren't doingpersonalization.
But I, I really think we'restarting to evolve to a place
where all of us reallyunderstand that it's, there are
(18:11):
some things where it's importantto be one to one.
Like, I would like my bankstatement to be personalized.
I would like, you know, lots ofdifferent communication really
is important that personal.
And then some communicationmatters that it's targeted, that
it's relevant to me, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean it
needs to be me as theindividual.
And so I think we, we sawsegmentation or targeting as a
(18:32):
bit of a dirty word for a while.
I think we're, we're now really,you know, coming back full
circle and, and reengaging onthis idea that there's several
layers of relevant messagingthat leads you to
personalization versus.
Feeling that you, you can't,that all of them are bad and
only one to one is what matters.
(18:53):
And I think that's, that's areal, that's a real shift for,
for the industry.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (18:57):
You use my other favorite word,
which is relevance overnecessarily personalization.
And, and I too would like mybank statement personalized,
especially if the amount ofmoney were to go up.
But that's a little outta mycontrol.
Well listen, Megan this wasreally insightful.
I'm, I'm actually happy,surprised and shocked that
there's someone who uses so manyof the same terms, phrases and
thoughts as I do.
And and I'm sitting here smilingknowing that there are many of
(19:21):
us who are aligned in market.
So, I just wanna thank you forbeing with me again, Megan
Namath the former SVP ofmarketing for Loblaw's Company
former CMO of Hudson's BayCompany.
And again, having had executiveopportunities across multiple
verticals and brands.
Really appreciate your insightsand, and thank you so much for
spending some time with me.
Meghan Nameth (19:41):
Thank you.
It was great.
Have a great day.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (19:43):
you.
So with me today is someone that
I've met a number of times.
I haven't had the pleasure ofworking with her directly, but
when I think about the marketinglandscape in Canada her name
always comes up as, as a leader,as an innovator, as someone who
has.
Really helped to transform thelandscape and help others grow
in their career.
And I'm lucky to have her todaywith me.
(01:06):
Megan Namath, who was the formerSVP of marketing for Loblaws
Companies, which in Canada is abig deal leading all kinds of
brands Shoppers Drug Mart,President's Choice, No name,
Loblaws my favorite No Frills,where I go shopping every
weekend.
a plethora of brands within thatportfolio.
She's also had great experienceformerly the CMO at Hudson's Bay
(01:28):
Company executive positionsacross pwc, TD Bank, Mars,
Canada, and p and g, whichobviously is such a, a, a
breeding ground for greatmarketers.
Megan, welcome to the podcasttoday.
Meghan Nameth (01:41):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
I'm happy to happy to discusseverything marketing.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (01:46):
So you've had, you know, a really.
Interesting and broad career.
I find generally people kind of.
Get focused on a particularvertical or a particular space.
I've had a bit of a balance allover the place.
I've done some different things.
I admire that in a profile.
And, when I look at yours,having touched a lot of
different verticals andfunctions you're someone like me
(02:08):
and I, really look up to that.
Any particular path or reasonfor your path I should say, or
was it just sort of happenstancethat you were able to cross
verticals and functions?
Meghan Nameth (02:18):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, and I agree.
I love that part of myexperience that I've been able
to move around to differentthings.
I think it's, I think there's acouple things I would say first,
I love learning new things.
I think I feel the most happywhen I'm challenged and I'm a
space that I'm sort ofcontinually learning about a new
(02:38):
industry or a.
function.
And I think that, that justmakes me really inspired and
passionate.
And I think the second thing, asI sort of moved to different
places, I realize that there'slot common between different
functions or verticals.
So, you know, There's lots ofgreat things I loved about my
role at Loblaws where, you know,when I learned in packaged goods
(03:00):
was really applicable,
Corby with Meghan Nameth (03:02):
so in, in all of that background and
experience, you know, we all, aswe work, we always find things
that maybe aren't exactlyperfect.
You know, things that we see inour jobs, in our functions that,
particularly in the world ofmarketing where there's, there's
just so much opportunity to testand try and create new
(03:23):
experiences for customers.
Maybe things in the organizationaren't exactly perfect.
It's a process.
It's a product, it's anexperience, a journey.
Can you think back to somethingin your experience, really
across any of the organizationsthat you've had an opportunity
to work at, and think ofsomething where you identified
with your team, you know, one ofthose situations and maybe talk
(03:46):
a little bit about the effortsAnd the ideation that you went
through to make it better,because I find, you know, so
many times we see thesechallenges and we just kind of
skip over it and go to the nextshiny object, but there's so
much opportunity to, fix andtake chances on solving some of
our current problems.
Any anything come to mind?
Meghan Nameth (04:03):
Absolutely.
it's never perfect.
And I think that's what makesthese jobs amazing.
I definitely always talk to myteam.
If, if we didn't haveopportunities, what would we be?
What would we be working on?
And I think, I think there's afew things that come to mind.
I mean, certainly.
During the pandemic, we all hadthe great pivots.
You know, trying to learn how tooperate very differently with
(04:24):
our team become much more agilein our responses.
And that, that I think gave usthis amazing sort of agility and
resilience as, as organizationsand so one of the biggest
changes that I always seemarketing teams go through is
moving from sort of a linearwaterfall approach to really
(04:44):
thinking about an agile, morepod structure where you can
experiment and test and learnand have all of the different
functions sort of representedin.
A more agile way so that you setclear objectives, you have
different people from differentskill sets working together in
real time to make impact andexperiment.
(05:06):
And I think that's been one ofthe biggest changes in our
industry is to really thinkdifferently From moving from a
very linear, you know, I thinkabout a campaign I brief that
campaign.
I see creative, I execute, I Imeasure to really thinking about
what's my objective and how do Ibring the right people together
to in real time experiment andmeet those objectives in a more
(05:28):
agile basis.
that's one of the biggesttransitions that I've seen, and
I think a lot of what we had todo during the pandemic really
prepared organizations for that.
We were all sort of living agilein the moment.
And so now as we're movinggroups to that, then most
industries are going there.
I think that's, that's one ofthe biggest things I see from a
process and kinda tructurestandpoint.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (05:51):
So one of the things that.
I'm hearing more and more aboutis not just moving the way you
described to this agile podbased test and learn model, but
actually shifting the focus ofwhat those pods are doing from
getting the check mark of, Hey,we delivered or launched to more
of an outcomes based, meaning,here's the objective.
Let's shave 2% off that kpi orincrease this KPI by 5%, or
(06:15):
shorten the time by X or Y or z.
Have you found that to besomething that, you know, teams
and our employers and our marketis ready for?
Have you had any experience withthat fundamental shift?
Meghan Nameth (06:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, I think we're doing itin pocket, so certainly we're
not moving full organizations tothat model.
But really thinking aboutsetting that up where it matters
and I totally agree with theoutcomes.
I think.
I think actually Agile projectmanagement is, is really
different than agile agile workstructures where you're really
(06:49):
thinking about you know, thisholiday we really wanna achieve,
to your point, you know, 10%growth in these areas.
So, In real time, we're gonnaall work together to collaborate
on, you know, how is it goingin, in real time, And optimize
and change, creative changecopywriting, change, you know,
tactics as we see the consumer.
(07:10):
And so I think the outcomesfocus is inevitable and it
requires some trust from theorganization.
They'll be able to allow a groupof people to work somewhat
autonomously to reach thatobjective.
That's probably the biggest leapof faith that you know, we have
to move people through becausewe're very used to, especially
(07:34):
in senior executive positions,we're very used to seeing
everything before it happens.
And so releasing that controland trusting our teams.
Have good judgment, make gooddecisions because they'll be
focused on the end.
Objective is, is a bit of elite,I think for organizations, but
definitely one that is worthdoing.
(07:55):
Cause I think, you know, in anytest we've done it produces
better results faster.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (08:01):
I have this theory that many of our IT
and technology partners arescared of outcomes based
marketing campaign and ideationand agile work because I do
believe that sometimes.
The way to achieve the outcomesis as simple as, to your point,
copy changes or a bit of ajourney design change.
It doesn't necessarily require,you know, hardcore IT
(08:22):
development of new capabilities.
And, and, and I thinkcollectively as an organization,
there may be a lot ofefficiencies if we start to
think that way, but maybe we'retalking a little bit ahead of
the market there.
The.
Meghan Nameth (08:32):
I don't know actually.
I think, I think we'rerealizing, and, and the research
really supports this.
Like I've seen research fromCantar, from Nielsen, from
Google.
It's 50% of effectiveness isdelivered by creative.
Re having convincing messaging,engaging, creative is, is really
part of.
The performance.
So I think you're, you're,you're dead on that there's,
(08:55):
there's, there's not only oneway to achieve results.
It's not always placement.
It's not always delivery, it's,it's sometimes placement,
delivery and message.
And so I think we have to sortof wait.
As sort of equally important inthe cycle.
And I think the, the other thingI would say is, you know, some
work when I was in banking thatwe did was, you know, we build
(09:17):
all these very robust predictivemodels, you know, very detailed
and complicated models thatwould help you find the right
customer or find the rightmessage.
And what we actually found thatthe most effective and had the
most ROI was.
So, you know, when you abandon acart and someone you know
follows up with you on an email,or if you are just, you know,
(09:39):
naturally likely to look likesomeone who is doing, you know,
looking to buy a house.
Those kinda trigger basedmessaging, which are, are quite
frankly, easy signals for datascientists to recognize.
Those are actually the highestroi.
And so I think sometimes we, weleap forward to a very complex
IT based solution when we could,we still more yield to get sort
(10:03):
I basic tactic.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (10:05):
You literally just said something I
say to my team all the time, andI frame it a little differently,
but it's the exact same thoughtprocess, which is we often jump
to this AI ml advanced analyticsdata driven ecosystem, and we
forget the most basic if thisthen.
Meghan Nameth (10:22):
Yes, exactly.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (10:24):
Fully aligned, and I'm, I'm, I'm
sitting here smiling, thinking,you know, Wow, like someone else
says the exact same thing.
And I, and I truly believe it.
I, I think about triggers.
I think about, you know, if youdo this, what's the most logical
thing you're gonna do next?
And you know, 80% of the timeyou're going to find the right
next behavior.
So super important point and,and, and thank you for
reinforcing that.
(10:45):
The, the flip side to the wholething is it, It's it's easy to
look for opportunity.
When there's a challenge or agap, it's maybe a little harder
to say, Well, things areactually going okay, we're
hitting our objectives, we'rehitting our targets.
People are happy, the salesresults are good.
How do you as a leader, Thinkabout continuous improvement
(11:06):
and, and being okay to tell yourteam, you know, as I say, we can
always make things better.
And can you think of anopportunity where, hey, you, you
looked across your team, youlooked across your organization,
you said, you know, this isgenerally working, but I think
we should take the time to stillinnovate and ideate and, and
really strive for the next goal,the b ag or, or making it
(11:27):
better.
Anything come to.
Meghan Nameth (11:30):
You know, almost every business I've worked in,
to be honest, becausecomplacency is sort of the enemy
of progress.
You, you can only and, andpeople should celebrate success.
I think that's maybe what holdsus back from sometimes continual
improvement is that we fear thatif we say we need to do more,
that we will diminish theprogress we've made and be the
(11:51):
excellent results.
And so I think it has to comehand in hand that we.
This is amazing.
We have the number one brand weleading market share, whatever
the whatever happens to be trueand to keep that momentum going.
There's always the next and thenever done.
And so I think.
I think it is about just drivingthat balance between we can
(12:15):
celebrate the success and howgreat it's today and still
strive for a bigger future.
And I think you know, I've beenon some amazing brands.
I think back to my day that procgamble, you know, I was on this
massive run of success.
Pet food.
They moved their business frombeing pet specialty to being
much more a wider distribution.
(12:36):
And so they were riding on thesegreat results and I think was an
element of we can continue thisdoing very much.
And it wasn't too long beforethe competition caught.
And, and that's always whathappens.
As soon as, as soon as you, as abusiness are feeling that wave
of success, you're just notalone in the market.
There's always someone.
(12:57):
Also innovating and thinking,and those people who haven't
been as successful are strivingfor.
Piece of growth.
And so I think we have to thinkabout this as as markets are
constantly evolving and we muststay with that evolution and
always be thinking about what'sthe next important milestone for
the consumer, What's the nextimportant innovation we can
(13:20):
bring that makes their lifebetter, makes it easier, more
convenient, whatever their valueproposition happens to be.
I think.
Really critical to set ourteam's eyes on.
We've done amazing.
And to keep being amazing, wemust continually innovate.
And I think, I think settingthat stage of innovation isn't
something we do and then we'refinished.
(13:41):
Innovation is kinda a continualjourney.
Cause that's essence of whateverbusiness you happen to be.
But that, I, I agree with you.
I think, I think often we, weshy away from that cause we
don't wanna take away from thesuccess, but it's, it's just
absolutely critical to keepeveryone focused on, on setting,
continually setting newmoonshots to things differently.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (14:03):
So if innovation is a continual
journey and you think about allof the d.
Verticals and brands that you'vehad an opportunity to, you know,
to help lead and evolve.
What do you see coming down thepipe?
You know, the average marketermight want to just be aware of
or think of where do you see,you know, industry agnostic?
Where do you see things going?
I mean, we talked a little bitabout, data versus the basics.
(14:27):
You talk a little about, agilepod versus waterfall and even,
outcomes versus you know, checkmark delivery of a campaign.
But, but what's next?
Meghan Nameth (14:36):
Yeah, I think, I think we all have to take stock
of the fundamental shift thatyounger consumers have gone
through.
The pandemic has fundamentallychanged how people relate to
each other.
How they communicate with eachother, how we consume content,
where we shop, what we'rewilling to, to do.
(14:58):
There's a, there's I think, avery deep and fundamental shift
that as that generation ofconsumers grows up and depending
what business you're in, that'llhave a or lagging impact, it,
it's gonna be really criticalthat we as marketers learn what,
how those consumers are behavingand consuming.
Cause I think it's gonna be veryfundamentally d.
(15:20):
Just based on their experiencesin the pandemic.
And then I think that might be abit longer term.
I think near term we knowconsumers are gonna have a tough
time in the next couple years.
There is going to be a lot ofstress.
On people's wallets frominflation, from interest rates,
from potentially conditions, andI think consumers will be, we
(15:46):
know this, that they are seekingvalue in.
In In very robust ways.
So whether it's searching for alowest price, whether they're
searching for a retailer thatthey can trust, will give them a
lower price, whether they'relooking for products that last
longer or up cycling andrecycling and sustainability.
And I think all of that isleading to a very different sort
(16:09):
of product and experienceenvironment.
And then lastly, I think it's,it's really this omnichannel
view, and we've been talkingabout omnichannel.
I don't know, at least the lastfive years, if not longer.
I forever just like we've beentalking about personalization
and work within face, but Ithink this idea of omnichannel
(16:29):
and personalization and the, ofcookies, I mean, it's, it's a
bit of a circular conversation.
But I think, I thinkfundamentally consumers are
living online.
They're living there, there'ssuch a blurring between offline
and online that I think.
The retailer or the brands thatwill will win in the future are
those that embrace that blurringvery, very deliberately, that
(16:53):
they really move the consumeracross channels without you
seamlessly.
And I think we've been talkingabout it for a long time, and I
think we're gonna start to seebehavior shift to those to do
that even more, even morequickly.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (17:08):
Yeah, I think all the things you said
are relevant and, and yes, someof these things just will never
go away and to the point.
Constant evolution andconsistent improvement.
You know, the notion ofpersonalization, the notion of
integrated omnichannelexperiences, to your point, they
have been around, they just getbetter.
And, and there's no silverbullet.
(17:28):
There's no magic platform thateven though they all promise
they can solve it, it, it'scomplicated.
And I think as long as we, asmarketers and executives
continue to just fight the fightand make, incremental
improvements hopefully one daywe achieve.
Something that looks better thantoday and to the conversation.
I mean, it's just, it'sperpetual, right?
Innovate.
I ideate.
Make it a little better.
(17:49):
Rinse,
Meghan Nameth (17:49):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think personalization forme is a really interesting cause
as we started down, the journeypersonalization across many
different places I've worked,there became this idea that the
only thing that mattered was oneto one.
And then you couldn't get to oneto one.
You kind of weren't doingpersonalization.
But I, I really think we'restarting to evolve to a place
where all of us reallyunderstand that it's, there are
(18:11):
some things where it's importantto be one to one.
Like, I would like my bankstatement to be personalized.
I would like, you know, lots ofdifferent communication really
is important that personal.
And then some communicationmatters that it's targeted, that
it's relevant to me, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean it
needs to be me as theindividual.
And so I think we, we sawsegmentation or targeting as a
(18:32):
bit of a dirty word for a while.
I think we're, we're now really,you know, coming back full
circle and, and reengaging onthis idea that there's several
layers of relevant messagingthat leads you to
personalization versus.
Feeling that you, you can't,that all of them are bad and
only one to one is what matters.
(18:53):
And I think that's, that's areal, that's a real shift for,
for the industry.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (18:57):
You use my other favorite word,
which is relevance overnecessarily personalization.
And, and I too would like mybank statement personalized,
especially if the amount ofmoney were to go up.
But that's a little outta mycontrol.
Well listen, Megan this wasreally insightful.
I'm, I'm actually happy,surprised and shocked that
there's someone who uses so manyof the same terms, phrases and
thoughts as I do.
And and I'm sitting here smilingknowing that there are many of
(19:21):
us who are aligned in market.
So, I just wanna thank you forbeing with me again, Megan
Namath the former SVP ofmarketing for Loblaw's Company
former CMO of Hudson's BayCompany.
And again, having had executiveopportunities across multiple
verticals and brands.
Really appreciate your insightsand, and thank you so much for
spending some time with me.
Meghan Nameth (19:41):
Thank you.
It was great.
Have a great day.
Corby with Meghan Nameth (19:43):
you.
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