January 3, 2024 • 29 mins
Helping organizations embrace emerging technologies so that they can have a better relationship with their customers, unlock growth and build their brand is the goal of Forum3. Co-founders Adam Brotman and Andy Sack know a thing or two about each of those goals, which is why they started the business in the first place, and the emerging technology of focus, Generative AI.
Adam is the former Chief Digital Officer at Starbucks, where he was responsible for building the brand’s Odyssey loyalty platform, Mobile App and led the company through its massive digital transformation. Andy is a seasoned tech entrepreneur and venture capitalist who recently spent 7+ years advising Satya Nadella on new product innovation and digital transformation. Together, they seek to connect the flywheels between new technology, brands and customer engagement.
As Adam and Andy discuss, organizations, brands and leaders have to get over their fear of new technologies like Generative AI, and just start experimenting. The trend line that's going on with this technology is so fast that brands need to start now with experimentation. They need to start thinking about how to incorporate it in their workflow, how to introduce it to their customer relationship strategy, if not directly to their customers, because if they don't start to experiment with it, Adam and Andy are confident they will be left behind.
To help with this, the two started Forum3 and their initial product Hive3, a competitive AI league where top creators compete for cash prizes and rewards from leading consumer brands. They provide a platform for AI creators to showcase their talent and compete against fellow innovators. As the two co-founders put it, "We have our own community of a couple of thousand of what we call, super prompters, providing intelligence as a service."
So listen in on how AI is going to change everything, how to best take advantage, and how to not get left behind. Oh, did I also mention they are writing a book with Harvard Press to be released soon? What can't they do?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Corby Fine (00:44):
So I have to admit, I personally have been playing a
lot lately with generative aiwriting blog posts, don't tell
my boss, but checklists fromwork PowerPoint presentations
for, for conferences.
Really by now, I would assumethat most of us brands and
individuals know that we canpretty much create almost
(01:05):
anything we want.
I'm living proof of that myself.
The technology, it's becomingstandard as a creative tool, and
so the question to me becomes,who can a company turn to in
order to get the best creativeideation and execution using
this new AI technology?
always say, you know, we shouldbuild our apps so that nobody
(01:27):
has to ever teach us how to useit.
There's no instruction manual.
Anytime you download an app,this thing's a little different.
Even myself, I find I'm watchingYouTube videos on how to
actually prompt a chat GPT,because it's, somewhat
intuitive.
I know I'm missing something andI'm often looking for help in
doing that.
And so as a brand or anIndividual, when you're
uncertain of, who and where toturn for that right opportunity,
(01:50):
that's what we're gonna talkabout.
today.
It's a problem that.
Forum three is actually hopingto solve.
And today I'm honored and luckyto have, the two co-founders of
Forum three, Adam Broman.
Who is the former, Chief DigitalOfficer at Starbucks, and rumor
has it the creator of the, uh,Starbucks Rewards mobile app,
where I spend way too muchmoney, by the way along with
Andy Sack.
(02:11):
Who himself a former innovationconsultant for Microsoft, CEO.
Satchin Adela.
I'd love to just be in the roomwith Satchin Adela, but you
know, we can talk about that aswell.
Forum's, new online platform.
Hive three.ai was launched lastsummer in 2023, and from what I
can gather was built toessentially.
Gamify the process of connectingbrands with experienced AI
(02:33):
creatives.
But I'm gonna let Adam and Andygive us a little bit more detail
about their business, the model,the successes to date.
And I think really what we'reall trying to figure out is
what's the journey and futurethat they, and we all should be
envisioning for ai, um, which Ido believe includes a book, and
we'll talk about that as well.
Maybe the book was written by alarge language model.
(02:54):
We'll find that out.
But Adam and Andy, welcome tothe podcast.
Adam Brotman (02:58):
Glad to be
Andy Sack (02:58):
so much.
Glad to be here.
Corby Fine (03:00):
so why don't you just, first give a little
background on, on yourself.
Uh, maybe we'll start with Adam.
Adam Brotman (03:06):
Sure.
I am, a Seattle native, uh,through and through i, my, you
know, my career, I started outas an attorney, but then quickly
got into business and, uh, had acouple of entrepreneurial
stints, but always in thedigital arena.
So digital music, digitalimages, I.
And ended up, at Starbucks andwas the chief digital officer
(03:29):
there, there for about 10 years.
And yes, you know, had the honorand the privilege of leading the
team that launched the Starbucksmobile app and rewards and
mobile ordering and, and was oneof the first chief digital
officers, in the country.
And then went from there to J.
Crew as, uh, president and CoCEO for a stint.
(03:50):
And ended up back, uh, backbeing entrepreneurial, uh,
connected with my longtimefriend Andy Sack here.
And we decided to, pursue a, amulti-decade dream of ours,
which is to work together and,you know, kind, kind of combine
powers around, uh, helpingbrands.
With their digitaltransformation, plans and ideas
(04:12):
and, and that led us to forumthree, which now I'm Co, CEO and
Co-founder with Andy of Forumthree.
Corby Fine (04:18):
Awesome.
Adam Brotman (04:19):
Andy.
Andy Sack (04:21):
I am Andy Sack and, I've been in the technology
space.
started my first internetcompany in 1995.
The first decade, I had fourinternet companies, managed to
sell a couple of them, Firefly,to Microsoft, which became
important Later, I Then became aventure capitalist in Seattle.
I have a seed stage fund calledFounders Co-op.
(04:44):
Most relevant to thisconversation, I did in fact
spend.
Time working directly for SatyaNadella, at Microsoft just prior
to him becoming CEO.
And then for the, you know, sixyears after he, became appointed
as CEO and I worked with thesmall product team there on
digital INF innovation anddigital transformation of
(05:06):
Microsoft itself, really workingthrough the processes necessary
to effectively incubate newproducts.
Fast forward to form three withAdam.
Corby Fine (05:17):
Awesome.
So obviously we're talking tovery seasoned executives.
You guys know what you'retalking about and I think that's
really important.
For the first question when wetalk about ai, I.
The average marketer, theaverage employee, the average
small business owner, there's alot of different connotations on
what that means.
(05:37):
We hear job loss, we hear fear,we hear opportunity, we hear
legal rights, copyright, Howhave you simplified the way to
explain to others what is itwhen, from your perspective,
you're talking about AI as a, acreative tool and something that
can help businesses.
How do you simplify the, thedefinition of that?
(05:57):
why don't we start with Adam.
I.
Adam Broman (06:00):
it's really hard to simplify the definition, which
is interesting because I don'tthink we've ever seen anything
like this.
It's, it's different than webone and web two in the sense of,
you know, if you, if you knowwhen I say web one, web two, web
two, you know, in 1995, we allhave that sort of aha moment
when we saw.
A browser and thought aboutlike, what would the internet
(06:22):
mean for publishing and commerceand connection.
And then there was this sort ofsocial mobile cloud era around
2000, you know, seven to, to,you know, almost now where it,
where it, it was also kind ofamazing.
But those were, those were sortof linear, like this is more
(06:43):
exponential in the sense that.
It's actually ai, whether you'retalking about generative AI from
a large language model, like achat, GPT and the like, or
you're talking about, othergenerative AI tools like Mid
Journey and Dolly and StableDiffusion.
What they all have in common isthat they're, essentially,
intelligence or creativity.
(07:06):
As a service.
And that's something that we'venever seen before.
Like we've always seen likepoint solutions and software
that, like you program it towork a certain way and you
create a great interface for it.
And, and I would say that thisis unlike anything we've ever
seen.
And so it, it's supermultipurpose.
It's multimodal, it's verycapable and it's more akin to.
(07:29):
Its name, it's more akin to AIas like a person on your team
that you can collaborate with.
And so for us, we would say,Andy and I would say once we
realize that, and I'll behonest, Andy, Andy was sort of
thinking about ai.
A little bit before I was, butwe were both, thinking about
blockchain and Metaverse and alittle bit of AI when we started
(07:52):
playing with chat GBT about ayear ago.
And when we did, we were like,no, this is, this is more
powerful.
Like this is something we needto focus on.
And so that would be thesimplified message I would say
to any marketer or leader isthat you gotta be thinking about
this, you gotta shift yourparadigm to think this is a,
(08:13):
this is knowledge, intelligence,capability as a service.
And if you're not tapping intoit and collaborating with it and
incorporating it into everythingyou do, you're just gonna fall
behind.
And that's, that's kind of howwe are thinking about it.
And we're trying to buildplatforms and services that are
scalable, that help brands dojust that.
Corby Fine (08:34):
So Andy, something that that was just said by Adam
was this.
Knowledge or creativity as aservice.
That's a really powerful line tome.
I really heard you say that.
Um, boldly, looking at thatthough, from, we'll say maybe
the average marketer'sperspective where there's a
little bit of.
Ownership, maybe evenpreciousness in terms of
(08:57):
creative output ideation,everything from the big concept
to the actual asset that getsgenerated by a marketing team or
an agency.
How do you see that fitting in?
Do you see this creative world?
Pushing back or really adoptingand sort of diving right into
this because in some regard,it's sort of supplanting the
(09:19):
skill and the expertise that theaverage marketer believes that
that's why they exist.
Andy Sack (09:25):
I, I mean your, I mean your, your question is
about the societal implications,of this technology.
I, I, think Adam said it andit's, you said it, and you, you,
back to your last question abouthow do you, what, how do you
simplify this?
I think of this as a digitalbrain and in, I think Adam He
(09:46):
said, he said it, and I'll justhighlight it, which is
intelligence as a service is theway to think about this.
This is most people, like,there's a range of people who
have read the headlines and youknow, it was the fastest product
to a hundred million users bylike an order of magnitude.
Um, meaning Chet, GBT was.
And so the rate of that adoptionand now the rate of the
(10:09):
technology advancement in lessthan a year.
I think is the issue.
I think it's the speed of theadoption and the advancement
that has literally when we hadthe, um, unique pleasure of
meeting with Sam Altman and wetold Sam a brief bit about Forum
(10:31):
three, is the parent company inHive three AI product.
And he, he liked the idea.
but he said in that meeting.
the reason that he liked theidea was because it's people.
It's basically creators who godeep with the technology, given
their background.
nobody knows what these modelsare capable of, and that is a,
(10:53):
including Sam Altman.
And that is a scary, I mean,that we came out of the meeting.
And, and we, we went for a walkand tried to just like we talked
about the implications to ourbusiness, we talked about the
implications to the world, um,for Sam Altman to say that to
us.
And I think that, that, that hasresonated.
Like, you know, the, the peoplethat created these models are
(11:15):
still trying to figure outexactly how they work Now
they'll figure that out.
and They're they'redeconstructing it how it.
arrives.
And there's already beenadvancement in that.
Now to your question about themarketing people and the,
adoption of that, I think thatlike there are gonna be people
that embrace the techno.
The technology is outta theback.
It's happening.
Like there's no putting thatback in the, that genie back of
(11:38):
the bottle.
So there's.
gonna be people that adopt itand embrace it and find that it
is an amazing.
Tool, having a digital brainthat, that, that, that you
collaborate with to create, toget jobs done, to advance in the
world, they're gonna be, thosepeople are gonna be incredibly
productive and they're gonnaproduce things that are mind
(11:58):
blowing.
And then there's gonna be, theproblem of the speed of the
adoption and the advancement.
is gonna cause.
Upset in our society, and, uh,we're gonna have to deal with
that.
And hopefully the technology,the, the positives outweigh the
negative.
And I think that's really whereAdam and I are standing.
And that's where forum three is,is that doing, it, working with
(12:22):
AI responsibly with brands andcreatives, recognizing the human
implications.
you have to just, you know, youhave to be thoughtful or as
thoughtful.
as you can, and know thatthere's There's just, there's
forces here with this tool.
This is a, I think this ishaving been around at the
beginning of, uh, at 1995, uh,at the start of the internet.
(12:44):
I think this is as big, if notbigger than the internet.
I mean, I remember Mosaic, Ithink it's bigger.
Corby Fine (12:51):
So Andy, just to go then one step further.
So you've gone even beyond themarketer, you've said, I'm gonna
build a business around this.
So why don't you explain whatexactly Hive three.ai is and,
and how you're trying to takeadvantage of this, you know,
massive speed adoption, the way,you know, you're talking about
it, of, of AI as a tool.
Andy Sack (13:12):
the, uh, I mean it's interesting.
It's worth noting that ourorigins of Forum three, we were
the team behind.
We started as a Web3 company, wewere Advisors to Starbucks
through Adam's relationships, onthe Starbucks Odyssey.
Project which is going verywell.
(13:33):
We continue to be involved withStarbucks.
We, we run their community.
and advise them and it wasreally Starbucks Odyssey
launched within one week of chatGBT, and it was as it was
launching.
It also launched, I think twoweeks after the FTX debacle.
As it launched by January, Adamand I were having conversations
(13:55):
about the implications of chatDBT on Starbucks Odyssey and on
forum three, and we started tosee very quickly in January and
February, organic behavior byconsumers of customer
co-creation, meaning.
Customers were taking, weretaking mid journey, uh, and
using generative AI to createthings and post them to the
(14:19):
Starbucks Odyssey, um, in theStarbucks Auto Odyssey Discord.
And we were like, wow.
And that was the most, thoseposts got the most.
Engagement and, and chatter inthe Community.
And we were like, wow, this is.
bought, like this is bottoms upcommunity.
This is the future of brandbuilding.
And from there, it's basicallybeen a journey.
(14:41):
Our AI journey, which we'll getto our, that is the name of our
book, um, our AI Journey, andit's been a journey of
generative ai, customerco-creation and helping consumer
brands, to.
realize the efficiency andeffectiveness of AI in their
creativity as well as in theirbusiness, and that's what Forum
three is all about.
(15:03):
How'd I, how'd I do, Adam?
Adam Broman (15:05):
That was good.
I mean, I, I, I, I love that.
And I'd only specifically add,so our first step of what we did
when we said we need to focus onai, this is too interesting and
too powerful.
The first step was I.
Was realizing that there werealready a burgeoning community
of AI creators out there.
(15:27):
And we thought, and they werepretty amazing.
And they were like the tip ofthe spear of like, they were
using Mid Journey and Stablediffusion and Dolly, and they
were really good at prompting,get these image and video
creation models and tools tocreate amazing things.
And, and so we thought, well,why don't we.
Why don't we set up a platformthat runs a weekly competition
(15:48):
amongst this community andshowcase to brands what's out
there.
Because we also realize thatbrands, and you mentioned this
earlier and I'll touch on it,there are a lot of.
Scary things about ai.
There's like uber scary thingslike alignment issues and you
know, what happens if it getssuper intelligence or
capabilities and, and those arevery real issues.
(16:09):
And there's also, you know,issues of, call it, it gets into
the wrong hand, what aboutimplicit bias within it?
There's, there's all, there'sall these big important issues.
And then there's also issuesrelated to like.
How are these things trained andcreated?
You know, was there authorizedtraining?
What about copyright issues?
That's particularly, I think,salient, um, in this, in this
(16:32):
space.
And if you're a brand, likeyou're, like your lawyers are
telling you, I.
Don't touch it.
And in the meantime, everybodyat these companies are using it,
whether they're authorized to ornot, because Andy said it's like
there's a study that just cameout that like over half the
people in companies are using itand not telling their bosses
they're using it.
So there's this combination oflike, yeah, genie out of the
(16:54):
bottle, lawyers are lawyers andother people are going to have
the, are rightfully asking toughquestions about, Copyright
issues, IP issues, ownershipissues, ethics issues.
and so we, we were like, well,let's, we had the ability to
say, well, let's put a platformtogether where we take this
(17:14):
community of AI creators and wejust start, we.
Briefing them every week.
Okay.
Create a, create an ad campaignfor a clothing line, A fake one.
We made up one called like urbanLux, like create one, like
create a video for a movietrailer, that doesn't exist yet.
So we, we just started playingwith it and putting real prize
money up and just to see whatwould happen.
(17:36):
And it's pretty amazing.
You know, we have a severalthousand person community now.
We have weekly competitions.
we've actually brought somebrands and we brought crumble
Cookies has come in andsponsored a competition.
and the, and the goal was toshow.
Both show brands what waspossible in this space around
co-creation and taking advantageof community and ai, but also
(17:59):
for us to learn.
'cause we're on a learningjourney.
The reason our book is calledour AI Journey is we have a lot
of humility about this.
Like we're, we're actually notthat, you know, it's nice of you
to say that we're really smartand we know a lot of stuff.
The truth is like, we'relearning this stuff like, you
know, yeah.
We're old.
We are, we
Corby Fine (18:19):
wisdom.
It's wisdom.
Yeah.
Adam Broman (18:21):
we're, we're old.
But also just like everybodythat's playing with this AI
stuff and learning about itright now is kind of in the same
spot.
Like everybody has the sameadvantage and disadvantage and
it's brand new.
Put it this way, there's nobody,other than maybe the teams that
like DeepMind or whatever,there's nobody really that's
been like.
Truly playing with this andlearning what it's capable of at
(18:43):
any sort of scale level for morethan a year.
So we're, we're just kind of inthat boat and we, we just wanna
take our, I'll tell you rightnow, we, we want to take our
foundational.
Mission and belief system aroundhelping brands embrace these
emerging technologies so thatthey can have a better
relationship with theircustomers and they can unlock
(19:05):
growth and build their brands.
Like that's our, that's Andy andmy life work.
That's what we just do.
It's what we've been doing.
This is no different, it's justa different technology, but
we're learning and it'shappening so fast, faster than
anything else, like Andy saidearlier, that we've ever seen
before.
So we had to put ourselves in aposition of learning,
demonstrating And sort ofbuilding with our community on
(19:27):
the fly.
So the first thing you've got isHive three.ai, where you've got
this design competitions andcreative community, and we're
bringing brands into that tosort of tap into that, to
sponsor a competition or do anactivation.
But we're also writing a book onthe subject and we're releasing
it with Harvard Business Reviewas a serial book and building a
community around that.
And then thirdly, behind thescenes, we're privately doing
(19:50):
private betas right now withbrands to help them with their
Essentially their AIcollaboration strategy and
building products and softwareproducts that we hope will scale
to help brands do that as well.
Corby Fine (20:04):
So just on the crowdsource piece, I know that
model has been around for awhile.
In fact, I.
I can even recall doing somepersonal stuff with, I don't
know, 99 designs or whatever itwas, and I was, wow, what an
innovative idea to takeadvantage of this massive,
ecosystem of people that are waymore talented than I am in terms
of design and logos and copy andwhatever it might be that I
(20:27):
needed at the time.
So you've basically taken a, youknow, I guess a proven but yet
legacy kind of business model.
And, and modernized it with, acombination of both the tools
and the asks of what you're,what you're getting, you know,
new creators to kind of thinkthrough.
Is there anything fundamental tothe actual model, that sort of
crowdsource component that'sdistinct and unique?
(20:48):
Or where do you see that part ofit going?
Because to your point, AI isjust like massively changing the
way in which the creationhappens.
What about on the business modelside too?
And, and if brands.
You know, or anyone listening tothis podcast were to say, Hey,
like, I'd love to try that outthe way crumble cookies are.
Uh, how would they go aboutdoing that and engaging with
you?
Andy Sack (21:08):
Well, the, the last question is the simplest and
easiest, which is they can emailus at Andy at forum three,
inanimate forum three.
So forum three.com is ourwebsite.
Go there and, and reach out tous.
In terms of the crowdsourcing,uh, you actually make a really
good point, which is, it is aTrident true, effective way of
(21:32):
community sourcing, ideas,brainstorming.
I think probably the, the, theinteresting or com, um,
innovative parts thus far.
'cause I don't think it's,we're.
We're just early.
We're at the start.
You, you, you talked about, uh,we launched this thing last
year.
We launched this thing threemonths ago.
(21:54):
it's four, three and a halfmonths old, which in ai, in AI
times is close to six years.
Corby Fine (21:59):
Got it.
Andy Sack (22:00):
Um, The innovative parts, we're just launching the
crumble activation.
So what we do today iscrowdsource.
We have our own community of acoup of a couple thousand of
what we call, of really topcreators, what we call super
prompters.
We have those, they're on oursite, they're in our discord.
now we're working with crumble,we're, we're gonna provide them.
(22:23):
Really generative AI consumertools to their customer to
actually create, because we havethe belief, just going back to
the Odyssey, to StarbucksOdyssey, we have the belief that
customers actually have anexperience.
They a want to be engaged withtheir brands.
They want to create and theyhave an experience and can often
tell the story on behalf ofbrands better than brands and
(22:46):
marketers can themselves.
And so if there was aninnovative part of the
crowdsourcing piece.
I would say that providing atool set and allowing that to be
open in an activation formremains to be seen, talked to us
in, you know, another three orfour, another Six years Um,
yeah, six a years of ai.
I think that's an innovativepiece, I think on the business
(23:08):
model side.
I think there's work to be donethere and, and I think, you
know, it's a topic that Adam andI are, are talking about because
the other part of the business,the strategy, this like
intelligence as a service piece,I.
Is a, it's basically we'relooking to pull the intelligence
as of a service and the,providing that as a member of
your, call it your executiveteam.
(23:31):
combined with the customer pieceand all putting that into the
digital brain of AI and And,through that, being able to
unlock.
Really insights and creativityand efficiencies and ideas that,
no exec team would've come upwith without it.
that's our that's what we're upto.
How to charge for that.
(23:51):
I don't know.
Corby Fine (23:52):
Yeah, no, and, and listen, I'm just like the
technology itself.
Things evolve.
The business model will evolve,the demand will evolve.
And to that, I guess, you know,the, last question specific to
that is, you know, Adam, whenyou think about, and you've
worked in some amazing brands,the J Crew, Starbucks, et
cetera.
What kind of organization, whatkind of leadership, what kind of
CMO is gonna win in this game?
(24:13):
What, what's it take in theirdemeanor, their character, their
risk taking aptitude like, likewho wins?
Adam Broman (24:20):
Well, it's funny, it, we write about this in our
book, we're still writing.
It's a serialized book, but weactually wrote about this in the
introduction chapter.
The, the answer to your exactquestion, which is if you look
at the methodology in the pastthat I think you can apply to
AI, is that you have to thinkabout The trend line that's
(24:43):
going on with the technology,and you need to start now to
start experimenting with it.
And you need to start thinkingabout how to incorporate in your
workflow, how to introduce it toyour customer relationship
strategy, if not directly toyour customers, and.
You're gonna have to do that ata time when you're not sure
(25:04):
what's gonna work and what's notgonna work, but you're sure that
if you don't experiment with it,you're gonna get left behind.
And that that was true of Webone.
That was true of social mobilecloud.
And I think it's especially trueof AI because it's moving so
fast that if you're, to yourquestion, if you're a marketer
or a C-suite leader.
(25:26):
Or a school principal for thatmatter.
Like if you're not right nowsaying, wait a minute, you mean
I can have effectively a chiefstrategy officer and business
intelligent team and creativestudio at my fingertips, and I
can start incorporating thatinto my workflow.
If you're response to that is,I'm scared, uh, or I don't know
(25:49):
how to start, that's natural.
But you gotta get over that alittle bit and you gotta start
experimenting.
And that's, that's what I wouldsay is when I look at the
examples, not just Starbucks,but when I look at the examples
of some of the greatest digitaltransformation stories of the
last 20 years, and Andy and Italked about this in our book,
like they do just that theywere, they were willing to sort
(26:09):
of understand that they wereearly, that they didn't have all
the questions, but they weregonna get on it and they were
gonna learn and they were gonnalearn with their But their
company with their team, and alot of brands don't have the
courage to do that.
Um, it's not, it's not for thefaint of heart, but I think it's
important, and I think it's moreimportant with this technology,
this emerging technology with AIthan it even was before.
(26:31):
Because the pace of change ofthis AI technology, like when
you think about where this isgoing and how fast it's gonna
get, there you, you're alreadybehind if you're not playing
with it right now.
Corby Fine (26:45):
I think that's kind of the title of this podcast.
If you're already not playingwith it, you're too far behind.
Andy, anything last to kind ofadd to that?
Andy Sack (26:54):
I mean, I think that I would just echo that.
I think that to answer yourquestion about who do I think, I
think you need to be courageous.
You need to be curious, and youneed to be courageous because
the, particularly as theorganization size scales, the.
Really the brand police, thecopyright police, the lawyers.
There's lot more than any othertechnology previously.
(27:19):
security and, um, the, thetechnology people, they're all,
there's lots of reasons not tostart experimenting with AI out
of fear and.
If you're not alreadyexperimenting with it, you're
behind.
So the people that experimentwith it and get their teams to
experiment with it and treat itcollaboratively will, I think,
(27:39):
will unlock some amazing,amazing growth for their
businesses.
Corby Fine (27:44):
Very well said.
And so, Adam Broadman, AndySack, thank you for having the
courage yourselves to, to reallystart this transformation
journey as co-founders andco-CEOs of Forum three,
launching and operating Hivethree.ai.
I.
Authors of the upcoming book,our AI journey, being published
with Harvard Business Review.
(28:05):
Um, thank you so much for yourinsights, for your wisdom.
And uh, just so everybody knows,this podcast was actually
recorded in AI time over thecourse of a year.
So, uh, you know, just to put itin scale.
But I really appreciate yourtime today.
Thank you both.
Andy Sack (28:19):
Corby, thank you so much for having us.
Adam Broman (28:21):
Yeah, great talking to you.
Corby Fine (28:22):
you.
So I have to admit, I personally have been playing a
lot lately with generative aiwriting blog posts, don't tell
my boss, but checklists fromwork PowerPoint presentations
for, for conferences.
Really by now, I would assumethat most of us brands and
individuals know that we canpretty much create almost
(01:05):
anything we want.
I'm living proof of that myself.
The technology, it's becomingstandard as a creative tool, and
so the question to me becomes,who can a company turn to in
order to get the best creativeideation and execution using
this new AI technology?
always say, you know, we shouldbuild our apps so that nobody
(01:27):
has to ever teach us how to useit.
There's no instruction manual.
Anytime you download an app,this thing's a little different.
Even myself, I find I'm watchingYouTube videos on how to
actually prompt a chat GPT,because it's, somewhat
intuitive.
I know I'm missing something andI'm often looking for help in
doing that.
And so as a brand or anIndividual, when you're
uncertain of, who and where toturn for that right opportunity,
(01:50):
that's what we're gonna talkabout.
today.
It's a problem that.
Forum three is actually hopingto solve.
And today I'm honored and luckyto have, the two co-founders of
Forum three, Adam Broman.
Who is the former, Chief DigitalOfficer at Starbucks, and rumor
has it the creator of the, uh,Starbucks Rewards mobile app,
where I spend way too muchmoney, by the way along with
Andy Sack.
(02:11):
Who himself a former innovationconsultant for Microsoft, CEO.
Satchin Adela.
I'd love to just be in the roomwith Satchin Adela, but you
know, we can talk about that aswell.
Forum's, new online platform.
Hive three.ai was launched lastsummer in 2023, and from what I
can gather was built toessentially.
Gamify the process of connectingbrands with experienced AI
(02:33):
creatives.
But I'm gonna let Adam and Andygive us a little bit more detail
about their business, the model,the successes to date.
And I think really what we'reall trying to figure out is
what's the journey and futurethat they, and we all should be
envisioning for ai, um, which Ido believe includes a book, and
we'll talk about that as well.
Maybe the book was written by alarge language model.
(02:54):
We'll find that out.
But Adam and Andy, welcome tothe podcast.
Adam Brotman (02:58):
Glad to be
Andy Sack (02:58):
so much.
Glad to be here.
Corby Fine (03:00):
so why don't you just, first give a little
background on, on yourself.
Uh, maybe we'll start with Adam.
Adam Brotman (03:06):
Sure.
I am, a Seattle native, uh,through and through i, my, you
know, my career, I started outas an attorney, but then quickly
got into business and, uh, had acouple of entrepreneurial
stints, but always in thedigital arena.
So digital music, digitalimages, I.
And ended up, at Starbucks andwas the chief digital officer
(03:29):
there, there for about 10 years.
And yes, you know, had the honorand the privilege of leading the
team that launched the Starbucksmobile app and rewards and
mobile ordering and, and was oneof the first chief digital
officers, in the country.
And then went from there to J.
Crew as, uh, president and CoCEO for a stint.
(03:50):
And ended up back, uh, backbeing entrepreneurial, uh,
connected with my longtimefriend Andy Sack here.
And we decided to, pursue a, amulti-decade dream of ours,
which is to work together and,you know, kind, kind of combine
powers around, uh, helpingbrands.
With their digitaltransformation, plans and ideas
(04:12):
and, and that led us to forumthree, which now I'm Co, CEO and
Co-founder with Andy of Forumthree.
Corby Fine (04:18):
Awesome.
Adam Brotman (04:19):
Andy.
Andy Sack (04:21):
I am Andy Sack and, I've been in the technology
space.
started my first internetcompany in 1995.
The first decade, I had fourinternet companies, managed to
sell a couple of them, Firefly,to Microsoft, which became
important Later, I Then became aventure capitalist in Seattle.
I have a seed stage fund calledFounders Co-op.
(04:44):
Most relevant to thisconversation, I did in fact
spend.
Time working directly for SatyaNadella, at Microsoft just prior
to him becoming CEO.
And then for the, you know, sixyears after he, became appointed
as CEO and I worked with thesmall product team there on
digital INF innovation anddigital transformation of
(05:06):
Microsoft itself, really workingthrough the processes necessary
to effectively incubate newproducts.
Fast forward to form three withAdam.
Corby Fine (05:17):
Awesome.
So obviously we're talking tovery seasoned executives.
You guys know what you'retalking about and I think that's
really important.
For the first question when wetalk about ai, I.
The average marketer, theaverage employee, the average
small business owner, there's alot of different connotations on
what that means.
(05:37):
We hear job loss, we hear fear,we hear opportunity, we hear
legal rights, copyright, Howhave you simplified the way to
explain to others what is itwhen, from your perspective,
you're talking about AI as a, acreative tool and something that
can help businesses.
How do you simplify the, thedefinition of that?
(05:57):
why don't we start with Adam.
I.
Adam Broman (06:00):
it's really hard to simplify the definition, which
is interesting because I don'tthink we've ever seen anything
like this.
It's, it's different than webone and web two in the sense of,
you know, if you, if you knowwhen I say web one, web two, web
two, you know, in 1995, we allhave that sort of aha moment
when we saw.
A browser and thought aboutlike, what would the internet
(06:22):
mean for publishing and commerceand connection.
And then there was this sort ofsocial mobile cloud era around
2000, you know, seven to, to,you know, almost now where it,
where it, it was also kind ofamazing.
But those were, those were sortof linear, like this is more
(06:43):
exponential in the sense that.
It's actually ai, whether you'retalking about generative AI from
a large language model, like achat, GPT and the like, or
you're talking about, othergenerative AI tools like Mid
Journey and Dolly and StableDiffusion.
What they all have in common isthat they're, essentially,
intelligence or creativity.
(07:06):
As a service.
And that's something that we'venever seen before.
Like we've always seen likepoint solutions and software
that, like you program it towork a certain way and you
create a great interface for it.
And, and I would say that thisis unlike anything we've ever
seen.
And so it, it's supermultipurpose.
It's multimodal, it's verycapable and it's more akin to.
(07:29):
Its name, it's more akin to AIas like a person on your team
that you can collaborate with.
And so for us, we would say,Andy and I would say once we
realize that, and I'll behonest, Andy, Andy was sort of
thinking about ai.
A little bit before I was, butwe were both, thinking about
blockchain and Metaverse and alittle bit of AI when we started
(07:52):
playing with chat GBT about ayear ago.
And when we did, we were like,no, this is, this is more
powerful.
Like this is something we needto focus on.
And so that would be thesimplified message I would say
to any marketer or leader isthat you gotta be thinking about
this, you gotta shift yourparadigm to think this is a,
(08:13):
this is knowledge, intelligence,capability as a service.
And if you're not tapping intoit and collaborating with it and
incorporating it into everythingyou do, you're just gonna fall
behind.
And that's, that's kind of howwe are thinking about it.
And we're trying to buildplatforms and services that are
scalable, that help brands dojust that.
Corby Fine (08:34):
So Andy, something that that was just said by Adam
was this.
Knowledge or creativity as aservice.
That's a really powerful line tome.
I really heard you say that.
Um, boldly, looking at thatthough, from, we'll say maybe
the average marketer'sperspective where there's a
little bit of.
Ownership, maybe evenpreciousness in terms of
(08:57):
creative output ideation,everything from the big concept
to the actual asset that getsgenerated by a marketing team or
an agency.
How do you see that fitting in?
Do you see this creative world?
Pushing back or really adoptingand sort of diving right into
this because in some regard,it's sort of supplanting the
(09:19):
skill and the expertise that theaverage marketer believes that
that's why they exist.
Andy Sack (09:25):
I, I mean your, I mean your, your question is
about the societal implications,of this technology.
I, I, think Adam said it andit's, you said it, and you, you,
back to your last question abouthow do you, what, how do you
simplify this?
I think of this as a digitalbrain and in, I think Adam He
(09:46):
said, he said it, and I'll justhighlight it, which is
intelligence as a service is theway to think about this.
This is most people, like,there's a range of people who
have read the headlines and youknow, it was the fastest product
to a hundred million users bylike an order of magnitude.
Um, meaning Chet, GBT was.
And so the rate of that adoptionand now the rate of the
(10:09):
technology advancement in lessthan a year.
I think is the issue.
I think it's the speed of theadoption and the advancement
that has literally when we hadthe, um, unique pleasure of
meeting with Sam Altman and wetold Sam a brief bit about Forum
(10:31):
three, is the parent company inHive three AI product.
And he, he liked the idea.
but he said in that meeting.
the reason that he liked theidea was because it's people.
It's basically creators who godeep with the technology, given
their background.
nobody knows what these modelsare capable of, and that is a,
(10:53):
including Sam Altman.
And that is a scary, I mean,that we came out of the meeting.
And, and we, we went for a walkand tried to just like we talked
about the implications to ourbusiness, we talked about the
implications to the world, um,for Sam Altman to say that to
us.
And I think that, that, that hasresonated.
Like, you know, the, the peoplethat created these models are
(11:15):
still trying to figure outexactly how they work Now
they'll figure that out.
and They're they'redeconstructing it how it.
arrives.
And there's already beenadvancement in that.
Now to your question about themarketing people and the,
adoption of that, I think thatlike there are gonna be people
that embrace the techno.
The technology is outta theback.
It's happening.
Like there's no putting thatback in the, that genie back of
(11:38):
the bottle.
So there's.
gonna be people that adopt itand embrace it and find that it
is an amazing.
Tool, having a digital brainthat, that, that, that you
collaborate with to create, toget jobs done, to advance in the
world, they're gonna be, thosepeople are gonna be incredibly
productive and they're gonnaproduce things that are mind
(11:58):
blowing.
And then there's gonna be, theproblem of the speed of the
adoption and the advancement.
is gonna cause.
Upset in our society, and, uh,we're gonna have to deal with
that.
And hopefully the technology,the, the positives outweigh the
negative.
And I think that's really whereAdam and I are standing.
And that's where forum three is,is that doing, it, working with
(12:22):
AI responsibly with brands andcreatives, recognizing the human
implications.
you have to just, you know, youhave to be thoughtful or as
thoughtful.
as you can, and know thatthere's There's just, there's
forces here with this tool.
This is a, I think this ishaving been around at the
beginning of, uh, at 1995, uh,at the start of the internet.
(12:44):
I think this is as big, if notbigger than the internet.
I mean, I remember Mosaic, Ithink it's bigger.
Corby Fine (12:51):
So Andy, just to go then one step further.
So you've gone even beyond themarketer, you've said, I'm gonna
build a business around this.
So why don't you explain whatexactly Hive three.ai is and,
and how you're trying to takeadvantage of this, you know,
massive speed adoption, the way,you know, you're talking about
it, of, of AI as a tool.
Andy Sack (13:12):
the, uh, I mean it's interesting.
It's worth noting that ourorigins of Forum three, we were
the team behind.
We started as a Web3 company, wewere Advisors to Starbucks
through Adam's relationships, onthe Starbucks Odyssey.
Project which is going verywell.
(13:33):
We continue to be involved withStarbucks.
We, we run their community.
and advise them and it wasreally Starbucks Odyssey
launched within one week of chatGBT, and it was as it was
launching.
It also launched, I think twoweeks after the FTX debacle.
As it launched by January, Adamand I were having conversations
(13:55):
about the implications of chatDBT on Starbucks Odyssey and on
forum three, and we started tosee very quickly in January and
February, organic behavior byconsumers of customer
co-creation, meaning.
Customers were taking, weretaking mid journey, uh, and
using generative AI to createthings and post them to the
(14:19):
Starbucks Odyssey, um, in theStarbucks Auto Odyssey Discord.
And we were like, wow.
And that was the most, thoseposts got the most.
Engagement and, and chatter inthe Community.
And we were like, wow, this is.
bought, like this is bottoms upcommunity.
This is the future of brandbuilding.
And from there, it's basicallybeen a journey.
(14:41):
Our AI journey, which we'll getto our, that is the name of our
book, um, our AI Journey, andit's been a journey of
generative ai, customerco-creation and helping consumer
brands, to.
realize the efficiency andeffectiveness of AI in their
creativity as well as in theirbusiness, and that's what Forum
three is all about.
(15:03):
How'd I, how'd I do, Adam?
Adam Broman (15:05):
That was good.
I mean, I, I, I, I love that.
And I'd only specifically add,so our first step of what we did
when we said we need to focus onai, this is too interesting and
too powerful.
The first step was I.
Was realizing that there werealready a burgeoning community
of AI creators out there.
(15:27):
And we thought, and they werepretty amazing.
And they were like the tip ofthe spear of like, they were
using Mid Journey and Stablediffusion and Dolly, and they
were really good at prompting,get these image and video
creation models and tools tocreate amazing things.
And, and so we thought, well,why don't we.
Why don't we set up a platformthat runs a weekly competition
(15:48):
amongst this community andshowcase to brands what's out
there.
Because we also realize thatbrands, and you mentioned this
earlier and I'll touch on it,there are a lot of.
Scary things about ai.
There's like uber scary thingslike alignment issues and you
know, what happens if it getssuper intelligence or
capabilities and, and those arevery real issues.
(16:09):
And there's also, you know,issues of, call it, it gets into
the wrong hand, what aboutimplicit bias within it?
There's, there's all, there'sall these big important issues.
And then there's also issuesrelated to like.
How are these things trained andcreated?
You know, was there authorizedtraining?
What about copyright issues?
That's particularly, I think,salient, um, in this, in this
(16:32):
space.
And if you're a brand, likeyou're, like your lawyers are
telling you, I.
Don't touch it.
And in the meantime, everybodyat these companies are using it,
whether they're authorized to ornot, because Andy said it's like
there's a study that just cameout that like over half the
people in companies are using itand not telling their bosses
they're using it.
So there's this combination oflike, yeah, genie out of the
(16:54):
bottle, lawyers are lawyers andother people are going to have
the, are rightfully asking toughquestions about, Copyright
issues, IP issues, ownershipissues, ethics issues.
and so we, we were like, well,let's, we had the ability to
say, well, let's put a platformtogether where we take this
(17:14):
community of AI creators and wejust start, we.
Briefing them every week.
Okay.
Create a, create an ad campaignfor a clothing line, A fake one.
We made up one called like urbanLux, like create one, like
create a video for a movietrailer, that doesn't exist yet.
So we, we just started playingwith it and putting real prize
money up and just to see whatwould happen.
(17:36):
And it's pretty amazing.
You know, we have a severalthousand person community now.
We have weekly competitions.
we've actually brought somebrands and we brought crumble
Cookies has come in andsponsored a competition.
and the, and the goal was toshow.
Both show brands what waspossible in this space around
co-creation and taking advantageof community and ai, but also
(17:59):
for us to learn.
'cause we're on a learningjourney.
The reason our book is calledour AI Journey is we have a lot
of humility about this.
Like we're, we're actually notthat, you know, it's nice of you
to say that we're really smartand we know a lot of stuff.
The truth is like, we'relearning this stuff like, you
know, yeah.
We're old.
We are, we
Corby Fine (18:19):
wisdom.
It's wisdom.
Yeah.
Adam Broman (18:21):
we're, we're old.
But also just like everybodythat's playing with this AI
stuff and learning about itright now is kind of in the same
spot.
Like everybody has the sameadvantage and disadvantage and
it's brand new.
Put it this way, there's nobody,other than maybe the teams that
like DeepMind or whatever,there's nobody really that's
been like.
Truly playing with this andlearning what it's capable of at
(18:43):
any sort of scale level for morethan a year.
So we're, we're just kind of inthat boat and we, we just wanna
take our, I'll tell you rightnow, we, we want to take our
foundational.
Mission and belief system aroundhelping brands embrace these
emerging technologies so thatthey can have a better
relationship with theircustomers and they can unlock
(19:05):
growth and build their brands.
Like that's our, that's Andy andmy life work.
That's what we just do.
It's what we've been doing.
This is no different, it's justa different technology, but
we're learning and it'shappening so fast, faster than
anything else, like Andy saidearlier, that we've ever seen
before.
So we had to put ourselves in aposition of learning,
demonstrating And sort ofbuilding with our community on
(19:27):
the fly.
So the first thing you've got isHive three.ai, where you've got
this design competitions andcreative community, and we're
bringing brands into that tosort of tap into that, to
sponsor a competition or do anactivation.
But we're also writing a book onthe subject and we're releasing
it with Harvard Business Reviewas a serial book and building a
community around that.
And then thirdly, behind thescenes, we're privately doing
(19:50):
private betas right now withbrands to help them with their
Essentially their AIcollaboration strategy and
building products and softwareproducts that we hope will scale
to help brands do that as well.
Corby Fine (20:04):
So just on the crowdsource piece, I know that
model has been around for awhile.
In fact, I.
I can even recall doing somepersonal stuff with, I don't
know, 99 designs or whatever itwas, and I was, wow, what an
innovative idea to takeadvantage of this massive,
ecosystem of people that are waymore talented than I am in terms
of design and logos and copy andwhatever it might be that I
(20:27):
needed at the time.
So you've basically taken a, youknow, I guess a proven but yet
legacy kind of business model.
And, and modernized it with, acombination of both the tools
and the asks of what you're,what you're getting, you know,
new creators to kind of thinkthrough.
Is there anything fundamental tothe actual model, that sort of
crowdsource component that'sdistinct and unique?
(20:48):
Or where do you see that part ofit going?
Because to your point, AI isjust like massively changing the
way in which the creationhappens.
What about on the business modelside too?
And, and if brands.
You know, or anyone listening tothis podcast were to say, Hey,
like, I'd love to try that outthe way crumble cookies are.
Uh, how would they go aboutdoing that and engaging with
you?
Andy Sack (21:08):
Well, the, the last question is the simplest and
easiest, which is they can emailus at Andy at forum three,
inanimate forum three.
So forum three.com is ourwebsite.
Go there and, and reach out tous.
In terms of the crowdsourcing,uh, you actually make a really
good point, which is, it is aTrident true, effective way of
(21:32):
community sourcing, ideas,brainstorming.
I think probably the, the, theinteresting or com, um,
innovative parts thus far.
'cause I don't think it's,we're.
We're just early.
We're at the start.
You, you, you talked about, uh,we launched this thing last
year.
We launched this thing threemonths ago.
(21:54):
it's four, three and a halfmonths old, which in ai, in AI
times is close to six years.
Corby Fine (21:59):
Got it.
Andy Sack (22:00):
Um, The innovative parts, we're just launching the
crumble activation.
So what we do today iscrowdsource.
We have our own community of acoup of a couple thousand of
what we call, of really topcreators, what we call super
prompters.
We have those, they're on oursite, they're in our discord.
now we're working with crumble,we're, we're gonna provide them.
(22:23):
Really generative AI consumertools to their customer to
actually create, because we havethe belief, just going back to
the Odyssey, to StarbucksOdyssey, we have the belief that
customers actually have anexperience.
They a want to be engaged withtheir brands.
They want to create and theyhave an experience and can often
tell the story on behalf ofbrands better than brands and
(22:46):
marketers can themselves.
And so if there was aninnovative part of the
crowdsourcing piece.
I would say that providing atool set and allowing that to be
open in an activation formremains to be seen, talked to us
in, you know, another three orfour, another Six years Um,
yeah, six a years of ai.
I think that's an innovativepiece, I think on the business
(23:08):
model side.
I think there's work to be donethere and, and I think, you
know, it's a topic that Adam andI are, are talking about because
the other part of the business,the strategy, this like
intelligence as a service piece,I.
Is a, it's basically we'relooking to pull the intelligence
as of a service and the,providing that as a member of
your, call it your executiveteam.
(23:31):
combined with the customer pieceand all putting that into the
digital brain of AI and And,through that, being able to
unlock.
Really insights and creativityand efficiencies and ideas that,
no exec team would've come upwith without it.
that's our that's what we're upto.
How to charge for that.
(23:51):
I don't know.
Corby Fine (23:52):
Yeah, no, and, and listen, I'm just like the
technology itself.
Things evolve.
The business model will evolve,the demand will evolve.
And to that, I guess, you know,the, last question specific to
that is, you know, Adam, whenyou think about, and you've
worked in some amazing brands,the J Crew, Starbucks, et
cetera.
What kind of organization, whatkind of leadership, what kind of
CMO is gonna win in this game?
(24:13):
What, what's it take in theirdemeanor, their character, their
risk taking aptitude like, likewho wins?
Adam Broman (24:20):
Well, it's funny, it, we write about this in our
book, we're still writing.
It's a serialized book, but weactually wrote about this in the
introduction chapter.
The, the answer to your exactquestion, which is if you look
at the methodology in the pastthat I think you can apply to
AI, is that you have to thinkabout The trend line that's
(24:43):
going on with the technology,and you need to start now to
start experimenting with it.
And you need to start thinkingabout how to incorporate in your
workflow, how to introduce it toyour customer relationship
strategy, if not directly toyour customers, and.
You're gonna have to do that ata time when you're not sure
(25:04):
what's gonna work and what's notgonna work, but you're sure that
if you don't experiment with it,you're gonna get left behind.
And that that was true of Webone.
That was true of social mobilecloud.
And I think it's especially trueof AI because it's moving so
fast that if you're, to yourquestion, if you're a marketer
or a C-suite leader.
(25:26):
Or a school principal for thatmatter.
Like if you're not right nowsaying, wait a minute, you mean
I can have effectively a chiefstrategy officer and business
intelligent team and creativestudio at my fingertips, and I
can start incorporating thatinto my workflow.
If you're response to that is,I'm scared, uh, or I don't know
(25:49):
how to start, that's natural.
But you gotta get over that alittle bit and you gotta start
experimenting.
And that's, that's what I wouldsay is when I look at the
examples, not just Starbucks,but when I look at the examples
of some of the greatest digitaltransformation stories of the
last 20 years, and Andy and Italked about this in our book,
like they do just that theywere, they were willing to sort
(26:09):
of understand that they wereearly, that they didn't have all
the questions, but they weregonna get on it and they were
gonna learn and they were gonnalearn with their But their
company with their team, and alot of brands don't have the
courage to do that.
Um, it's not, it's not for thefaint of heart, but I think it's
important, and I think it's moreimportant with this technology,
this emerging technology with AIthan it even was before.
(26:31):
Because the pace of change ofthis AI technology, like when
you think about where this isgoing and how fast it's gonna
get, there you, you're alreadybehind if you're not playing
with it right now.
Corby Fine (26:45):
I think that's kind of the title of this podcast.
If you're already not playingwith it, you're too far behind.
Andy, anything last to kind ofadd to that?
Andy Sack (26:54):
I mean, I think that I would just echo that.
I think that to answer yourquestion about who do I think, I
think you need to be courageous.
You need to be curious, and youneed to be courageous because
the, particularly as theorganization size scales, the.
Really the brand police, thecopyright police, the lawyers.
There's lot more than any othertechnology previously.
(27:19):
security and, um, the, thetechnology people, they're all,
there's lots of reasons not tostart experimenting with AI out
of fear and.
If you're not alreadyexperimenting with it, you're
behind.
So the people that experimentwith it and get their teams to
experiment with it and treat itcollaboratively will, I think,
(27:39):
will unlock some amazing,amazing growth for their
businesses.
Corby Fine (27:44):
Very well said.
And so, Adam Broadman, AndySack, thank you for having the
courage yourselves to, to reallystart this transformation
journey as co-founders andco-CEOs of Forum three,
launching and operating Hivethree.ai.
I.
Authors of the upcoming book,our AI journey, being published
with Harvard Business Review.
(28:05):
Um, thank you so much for yourinsights, for your wisdom.
And uh, just so everybody knows,this podcast was actually
recorded in AI time over thecourse of a year.
So, uh, you know, just to put itin scale.
But I really appreciate yourtime today.
Thank you both.
Andy Sack (28:19):
Corby, thank you so much for having us.
Adam Broman (28:21):
Yeah, great talking to you.
Corby Fine (28:22):
you.
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