March 31, 2024 • 26 mins
This episode features a dynamic discussion with Brad Bettinson, VP of Enterprise Solutions at JAM Direct, focusing on the evolution of email marketing and the role of AI in modern marketing strategies. The conversation delves into whether email is becoming obsolete akin to outdated technologies like the fax machine, or if it's adapting and thriving in a world dominated by instant communication channels.
Brad brings over 20 years of experience in email and marketing automation, offering insights into the shifting landscape of customer engagement. He emphasizes the importance of personalized, data-driven approaches in email marketing to cut through the noise of overloaded inboxes. While acknowledging the challenges posed by AI's black box nature, he highlights its potential to streamline processes and enhance relevance in customer interactions.
The episode covers emerging trends such as AI-driven personalization, send time optimization, and the integration of various channels within a cohesive omni-channel strategy. Brad stresses the significance of prioritizing customer-centricity and relevance over sheer volume, citing successful examples like Toyota's commitment to delivering value to their subscribers.
You can expect to gain valuable insights into the evolving role of email marketing, the impact of AI on marketing strategies, and practical approaches to enhancing customer engagement in a rapidly changing digital landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Corby Fine (00:42):
So I can remember for many, many years thinking
about all of the things that weused to use and now don't use
anymore.
My grandparents were reallygreat future tellers.
They bought a Betamax.
That should say it all.
I literally remember going totheir house,
Brad Bettinson (00:59):
VHS.
Corby Fine (01:00):
putting in tapes.
That was a loss.
Now that's a little differentthan other things.
Like, let's say the fax machine,which ultimately was the
mainstay of communication forbusiness and sometimes personal.
The pager, those were thingsthat had utility, but ultimately
lost to other technologies.
And with me today to talk alittle bit about one of those
(01:22):
potential technologies, and Ithink this is going to be a nice
little debate is Brad Bettinson,who is the VP of enterprise
solutions at JAM Direct, JAM isa Toronto based agency that
specializes in CRM marketing.
Brad's got over 20 years ofexperience.
He's an email and marketingautomation expert.
He helps clients achievecustomer centric
transformations.
He's part seasoned marketer andpart technology solution
(01:44):
developer leading the design andimplementation of enterprise
scale marketing automationsolutions.
He's also a great speaker.
I've seen him speak, sharing hisinsights on personalization and
automation at all kinds ofconferences like Salesforce
Connections, Dreamforce, MarTechconference, et cetera.
Brad, welcome to the podcasttoday.
Brad Bettinson (02:04):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Corby Fine (02:05):
Uh, the technology, which I haven't yet said by
design, because I want to getyour, your take It's email is.
Is email dead?
Is it becoming sort of like thatfax machine that had its utility
and then just sunset off intothe horizon?
Brad Bettinson (02:23):
Yeah.
I mean, I've heard that questiona few times and funny enough, it
was like five years ago.
I was presenting somewhere andsomeone said, you know, is email
dead.
My kids don't use it.
And it was pretty funny.
It caught me off guard becauseI'm like, well, it's such a
mainstay.
But yeah, I mean, at some point,every technology does get
replaced by something newer andbetter.
So at some point it will happen,but I think it might be better
(02:47):
to think about email indifferent categories.
Like how do we use it?
So for example, peer to peeremail definitely is becoming a
fax machine.
Like the older you are in thespectrum, you may, if you're
going to, you know, go to therestaurant with your friends
next week.
You might email them and say,Hey, let's go out.
But you go younger on thespectrum and it's like, no way.
(03:08):
They're not using email tocommunicate with friends.
They're using one of the myriadof other better, more instant
tools.
Um, and on the peer to peerside, it's pretty funny.
I'm a WhatsApp person myself.
And so I have a friend coming infrom out of town.
We WhatsApp every day, but whenit came to their itinerary.
They emailed it to me becausethey want to make sure I
(03:30):
actually show up at the airporton time.
And they don't want thatimportant information of when
their flight arrives to getlost, you know, in that thread
that's constantly kind of eatingits own tail.
Corby Fine (03:41):
So, to that point, you mentioned the myriad of
other more instant tools.
And so I think that's one of thekey things.
Email, while I think those of uswho are a little older to your
point think of it as, fairlyinstant in comparison to the
things that we grew up with.
There are way more real timepinging, notifying, buzzing in
(04:01):
your pocket all the time kind oftools.
So how has email marketing.
And email as a tool evolvedessentially over the last number
of years to stay relevant in aworld that is dominated by these
more instant gratifyingcommunication vehicles and
digital channels, whether it'sSnapchat, whether it's
Instagram, like what is it thatsays, hey, email has evolved to
(04:24):
stay relevant.
Brad Bettinson (04:26):
Yeah, I think, it's the way we prioritize all
these channels and what we usethem for.
I myself, I'm not handing out myWhatsApp to any companies.
I only want to hear from friendsand my intimate group, on
WhatsApp.
I don't want a company joiningthat conversation.
So, I think people will go outto social channels to do a lot
(04:50):
of things and brands can have arole in that conversation.
But when it comes to that likeone to one communication, data
and the openness to receive thatsuper personalized one to one
communication.
Like imagine you're on a websiteand you're about to purchase,
but you leave and you go toYouTube.
(05:11):
Now you understand you'll beretargeted.
But if the video and they juststopped in that teaser and said,
Brad, I know you just left thewebsite, go back and finish your
purchase.
Like that's sort of crossing aline.
That's you're out in YouTubeland because you want to watch
videos, not because you want tobe communicated to, but email is
very different.
Like that's your digitalpassport.
(05:32):
That's how you engage withcompanies, services, businesses.
So email, I think has got aresurgence, especially during
COVID because of the data drivennature and how personal it's
become.
So the, the old style, Hey,email is a marketing channel.
I got a million customers.
I'm going to just blast the samemessage to them.
(05:52):
That is definitely a fax machinemoment that's happening in email
now.
What is going to let somecompanies continue to be
successful is that data drivenaspect.
And that's hard stop.
If you can put relevance insomeone's inbox, they're open to
that conversation.
Corby Fine (06:08):
So I think one of the key things you're saying
here is there's a differencebetween the personal one to one
use of email.
Which is ultimately beingreplaced by social tools, social
channels, more instantgratifying enablers, but from a
business or a marketingperspective on behalf of an
organization, a brand, a productto an individual or a group,
(06:28):
we're still going strong, butyou, you've referenced the word
data, and personalization orrelevance a couple of times.
So that's obviously reallyimportant today, given the fact
that all of us from individualsto organizations to governments
are really putting a strongemphasis on privacy on data
(06:48):
protection on personalization,but done so with the consent of
the individual.
So how do you see?
The strategies thatorganizations are putting into
place, adapting to make surethat they are taking into
consideration what theindividual wants, but also
staying, you know, regulatorycompliant in that whole process.
(07:10):
And is it limiting anything?
Like, are there things we, wecan't do now as brands and
marketers because of these, I'mgoing to say tighter
restrictions, but let's sayguidelines and rules.
Brad Bettinson (07:21):
No, um, the rules are great actually.
And the data privacy is great.
And I think back to when CASLcame in, like everyone was like
concerned about CASL.
And all CASL did was it helpedcut out the junk that was going
to people's inbox.
Like you have to havepermission.
You have to treat their inboxwith respect, essentially, you
(07:42):
have to give them the right toopt out.
And so those rules actuallyhelped email as a channel
continue to be relevant to theconsumer.
And so data privacy is big, butalso phishing is a big concern.
Like a few years ago, you'd getthese laughable phishing emails
like, Oh, you forgot yourpassword and you need to log in
and give us all your details.
(08:02):
But they're getting reallysophisticated now.
So we're helping our clientsthread that needle of putting
emails in front of customersthat are clearly for that
customer.
They have enough personalidentification information that
they know, Hey, this is for me.
There's no way a phishingcompany could know this and this
and this, but we're also notcrossing that line, which, you
(08:25):
know, a few years back, youcould put a ton of personal
information in email, but nowwe're doing a better job of
handing off to more securechannels.
So email might start theconversation, but we'll quickly
pass them to the mobile app thathas a logged in state or the
customer portal that has alogged in state.
And that's the, that's the linewe're staying ahead of phishing
and being super relevant andmaking sure we, we hit that just
(08:49):
for me mark is what we call it,but we're not going so far that
the customer is like, wow, youput that balance in my email and
that's kind of embarrassing ifsomeone else saw that and so
that's how we're staying in themiddle of it.
Corby Fine (09:02):
I always used to think that the sort of litmus
test of too much would be if Iwas sitting on public transit
and my phone was open andsomebody was sitting behind me.
Would, would it be bad ordetrimental or embarrassing to
your point?
If someone actually sawsomething, so health information
or bank balances or things likethat, that you really don't want
(09:25):
anyone else to see, of course,limit it, don't put it in.
But you know, one of the thingsthat when I gave your
background, we talked and I usedthe word, CRM marketing, so
maybe just, your perspective onwhat is today the definition of
that?
Because we're talking so muchabout email, but then you
dropped in, well, yeah, but thatcould start the conversation and
(09:46):
it could lead to other channels.
What do you see in thedefinition of CRM marketing
today that an agency like JAM,or others who specialize in that
kind of area, uh, would considerwithin their purview.
Brad Bettinson (09:58):
Yeah.
It's a good example, or a goodquestion because we talk email a
lot because that tends to be thealpha channel for the clients.
If they have a really good apppenetration, then that might be,
but in most cases it's stillemail to start the conversation.
And we're really not an emailpartner so much these days, more
of an omni channel one to onejourney partner.
(10:19):
So we'll help clients, thecustomers will come into the
journey and then it's like,okay, do we even have email?
Most we do.
So we're talking email.
If we don't, okay, maybe it'sdirect messaging or direct mail.
Maybe it's SMS.
Maybe it's sharing, maybethey're in our journey, but
we're not serving up the rightcontent or they're just not
passing that threshold.
So though we're going to sharethat audience with.
(10:42):
other social platforms.
We're going to share thataudience with the SEM team so
that they can increase theirspend on this customer because
they're interested, but they'renot crossing whatever threshold
or goal we're looking for.
So yeah, it's a good point.
And it's, we're talking a lot ofemail, but all these things
apply to good one to one acrosswhatever channel that happens to
(11:03):
be.
So meet the customer where theyare essentially.
Corby Fine (11:07):
So given that, and all of the experience that you
and your agency have had, whatare you seeing now as some of
the emerging trends, some of theinnovations, both in email
marketing, but even moregenerally, this one to one
marketing that organizations,brands, and marketers should
actually be aware of to stayahead of the curve.
(11:28):
And at the same time, make surethey are compliant and following
the sort of data protection andregulatory rules.
Brad Bettinson (11:34):
Yeah.
So before I talk about thetrends, I'll back up a second.
I'll talk a bit about thechallenge that we're all facing.
And so COVID hits.
And every, Google has a greatstat, I can't remember, but it's
something like there was a nineyear advancement in people's
digital savviness that happenedin one year because everyone was
(11:55):
forced to get on zoom.
Everyone was forced to downloadthe app.
Everyone was forced to do thingsin a way more digital way than
they were before.
And the same thing forcompanies, your customers
weren't coming in store.
They weren't coming in to thegym, to that service.
So everyone switched andreinvested in email and included
data in that mix.
So what happened was email had aresurgence, but it's also had
(12:20):
because of automation, becauseof all these tools, just way too
much email.
So generally companies are mostlikely sending too much emails.
They're seeing emotionalunsubscribe from customers.
The tools at helping you skipmessages that you don't want to
see are improving.
So the companies that aresending generic stuff and just,
(12:43):
okay, I'm going to try and winthe volume game, they're going
to lose out.
And the trends are all around.
How do I win the relevance game?
How do I win the right to keeptop of mind and top of inbox
with my customer?
And so all the trends reallywork backwards from that
problem, which is.
(13:03):
There's so much noise in yourinbox, how do companies make
sure that they can increasetheir signal
Corby Fine (13:09):
I woke up this morning as I do every morning.
And even though I swear, I swearthat I unsubscribed to like five
things yesterday.
I have another 40 things in myinbox today.
It's just, it's remarkablyinsane how it just happens.
Brad Bettinson (13:24):
Yeah.
And I do think in the near, nearfuture, we are all going to have
AI assistants that are watchingour eyeballs, watching what we
read and then sorting our inboxfor us.
And that's going to be a realreckoning where the AI is going
to look at your email and belike, I don't see anything in
this for my user.
I'm not even going to show it tothem.
I don't care about your awesomesubject line.
(13:45):
They're not even going to seeit.
Corby Fine (13:46):
So I want to talk about AI, but let's nail out,
you know, give me the two orthree trends.
Cause I, I do think it'simportant because AI could be a
whole other podcast episode.
Brad Bettinson (13:56):
Yes, so before I talk trends, I do say nail the
basics.
So many clients, when weonboard, it's like, we're just
through AB testing.
We have the client the otherday, we just improve their UX a
little bit.
And we saw a 10 percent lift inclicks.
So it's like nail the basics,then move to things.
One of the ones that we like iscalled ask, learn, optimize.
So we think of email as this oneway channel.
(14:19):
But it doesn't have to be so wehad a banking client and they
had a cohort that looked likethey were about to attrite or
leave and we went with an emailthat says You know, is this the
right service for you?
And it's a very bold questionand then there's three buttons
Yes, no, and then like i'm notsure I can't remember exactly
(14:40):
But we saw a huge click rate.
So when you ask a customer aboutthem and you ask a really
important question, they're notafraid to say, no, it's not the
right service.
We land them on a personalizedpage.
We say, here are some otheroptions and handle that customer
moment in the most helpful waypossible.
So if you're not askingquestions in your emails, you
(15:00):
should be.
The other one, it's not a trendso much as it's this North star
we're always trying to get to,which is just for me.
So if you look at your emails ona spectrum, are they mass
marketing or is it somethingthat was a send of one?
So when the customer receivesthat they're like, oh I got this
because it's clearly for me It'striggered off that data event.
(15:23):
It says why I'm getting it.
It's just super relevant So lookat your emails on that spectrum
and then again, not so much atrend, but really, I think
having its moment in 2024 is theomni channel orchestration we
talked about earlier, where ifyou have your email team head
down with their content calendarand they don't know what the
social team is doing, they don'tknow what the DM team is doing,
(15:45):
they don't know what the appteam is doing, it's like, No,
no, back up.
Put them all in a room.
Their content calendars shouldbe one big content calendar.
We actually learned that, fromToyota.
They do that really well.
And it's not some big AIsolution.
It's a giant cheat with everyagency partner putting in their
content calendars and we allwork together as one big unit.
(16:07):
Um, and then the last one, whichis an AI thing as well, but a
lot of clients own these massiveplatforms that they just keep
adding tools to, but they can'tkeep up.
So sometimes the trend is rightunder your nose.
And one of my favorites is inmarketing cloud, it's send time
optimization.
Um, I think they had some issueswith it when it launched, but
(16:28):
it's really come into its own.
And even when we have clientswith smaller audiences.
Where instead of us as marketersgoing, oh four o'clock's, the
best time to send, you give itto the AI.
The AI looks at the last sixmonths of data, and then it'll
pick a personalized send timefor each, or it'll crowdsource
for the people that doesn't haveenough data.
So that's a, a bit of a trend,but also a note that you may
(16:49):
have the next, you know, clawingforward a percent increase on
your click-through rates.
It may already be in theplatform you have.
Corby Fine (16:58):
So that's a, uh, leverage the technologies you've
already invested in.
And I think to your point, a lotof the large, we'll call it
marketing cloud type platforms.
And again, I know listeners hereare going to say, well, there's
Adobe, there's Salesforce, andwe're going to have competitive
battles of opinion of what's thebest.
But irrespective, I think whatyou're seeing is.
(17:20):
The large organizations have themoney, the money's being spent
on innovation.
The innovation is obviouslyfocusing on AI implementation
into the platform.
So I guess one is what you'resaying.
If it's already there, why don'tyou try it and use it?
Cause it's faster, better,cheaper than having to do it on
your own.
Um, but then what else are youseeing around?
You know, you mentioned it acouple of times, you talked
about, you know, AI monitoringand making sure that only the
(17:42):
things that are most importantare prioritized in your inbox.
You talked about AI being usedfor send time optimization to
make sure that you're gettingemails at a time that you're
going to be responsive to it.
What else are you seeing aroundthe potential impact of AI and
machine learning in both emailmarketing, but also this journey
design one to one marketing thatgoes in an omni channel
(18:03):
ecosystem.
Brad Bettinson (18:05):
Yeah, I mean, AI is absolutely a game changer.
There is no doubt about it.
And you know, I'm at theseconferences and everyone's sort
of running around with impostersyndrome.
Like, is everybody have AIeverywhere?
And I'm behind the curve.
I had lunch with a friend theother day.
I'm going to steal their story.
It's not mine.
But they built a whole campaignwith AI start to finish, and
(18:26):
then they had the human team doit.
And so they launched both 50 50test split.
Now in the end, the humancampaign performed better.
But the AI campaign did notperform badly, and it was a lot
less expensive.
So there's sort of two importantlevers.
We want results, but we wantefficiency.
(18:46):
And, you know, I would love tohave seen a third group.
I mean, obviously, uh, time andresources are finite, but a
third group that's using AI andhumans, the best of both worlds,
because I think that campaignwould have performed the best
and also have, you know, thoseefficiencies mixed in.
(19:07):
So that's the way, you know, asan agency partner to our
clients, we're looking at AI is,sort of, more, better, faster.
And there are definitely someleaps ahead in terms of how AI
manages data, how AI will helpyou find opportunities in your
data.
So I think that's a big one.
(19:29):
We've helped clients implementAI solutions, like I think eight
years ago, we helped The Sourceimplement predictive
intelligence, because you hadhumans trying to figure out what
recommendations, but then youhad this AI machine learning
that could watch what peoplesurf, watch what they bought and
just nail it in terms ofrecommendations.
For Petco, for example, theywere using marketing clouds
(19:50):
predictive intelligence orEinstein product racks.
But it had a bit of a blind spotbecause AI can be a black box.
And that's the point I'm tryingto get to, which is black box AI
can be difficult to work with.
And they were having some reallygood success, but some really
bad recommendations in the mix.
And so we went in and we createda dashboard.
So the humans could see anddemystify.
(20:13):
So we could see about 200recommendations at once with the
customer data behind it.
And then we saw 90 percent ofthe time is bang on.
It's got all the data it needs.
It's got in store data.
But this 10%, it wasn't an AIproblem so much as a data
problem, but it's like, Hey, AIis going to have this blind spot
and that's where we would buildin some controls and do some
manual recos or have somefallback logic.
(20:36):
So I think that's a really goodmetaphor for the future of how
we're all using AI.
AI is going to do more and more.
But the humans in the hot seatare still required to apply that
accountability, that oversight,and that, you know, finesse to
really bring it to the nextlevel.
Corby Fine (20:53):
Yeah.
I think a lot of where peopleare starting with AI is on the
more side, as opposed to fasterand more begets its own issues,
which is.
In a world where we're trying tocreate relevance, more stuff in
theory means less relevance.
And so whether it's legal andcompliance, whether it's
validating that it is the rightmessage or the right product or
(21:14):
the right recommendation, thehuman element still needs to be
there.
And I do think that over timeyou will see more AI on the
process enablement for speed asopposed to, like, let humans
come up with ideation andcreativity and maybe automate
the process and the speed atwhich it gets to market through
legal, through compliance,through reviews, through
automated checkpoints between,you know, agency and client and
(21:37):
creative director and whoever.
But it is an interesting point,uh, that this black box AI, when
developers of platforms don'teven themselves fully understand
how the outputs are coming outof the system.
It's a little scary, but I thinkthat's where the human
intervention is still going tobe required.
Brad Bettinson (21:54):
Yeah.
And I think we've all who areusing AI have those odd moments
where it hallucinates, or itjust comes up with some answer
out of left field that would bea disastrous customer
experience.
So companies are faced with, Iwant the speed and efficiency of
AI.
But I need 100 percent in marketaccuracy, and I really do care
(22:16):
about my customers and my longterm relationship.
So we're kind of coming fullcircle to that the beginning
challenge of email, which is.
Too much.
There's too much in the inboxand AI is going to accelerate
that problem.
So I think the companies thatcan use AI to push customer
centricity, to push that justfor me emails on the spectrum.
(22:38):
So as an example, part of ourrole with clients is we enable
internal teams.
And we help them build what'scalled a playbook, which is
better emails, faster with 100percent in market accuracy
across enterprise organizations,which is easier said than done
because they have so many teamsand so many stakeholders.
So we're looking at this frombrief to analytics process, and
(23:00):
we're seeing the value of AI atso many steps.
But it's taking the people andthe expertise that are in the
steps that are owning it andempowering them to do more and
for us more typically means moreversions.
We want more dynamic content.
We want to get more personalizedSo we're not going to say to our
clients.
Oh good news.
You can now send 10 campaigns aday.
(23:22):
We're going to say, good news,those two and a half campaigns
you send a week, we can now gowider.
We can use AI to get moreversions, more personalization,
increase the relevance of whatwe're offering the customer so
that we win the right tocontinue that conversation, and
get that next open.
I'll close with, something we'velearned from Toyota, which is
(23:45):
Omotenashi.
And that's saying is treat acustomer like a guest in your
house.
And the work we've been doingwith Toyota, which we presented
at Dreamforce, there's probablya video of it online somewhere,
where instead of sending sevencampaigns a month, like each
department sending their owncampaign, we put them together
(24:05):
into one larger campaign andmade it super relevant.
There's something like sixmillion possible permutations
that can come out of this.
And they see a month after monthincrease in engagement because
Toyota guarantees you willalways get something of value in
their emails.
Like that's their promise.
And by doing that for the past Xnumber of years, they're not
(24:28):
suffering from the same issuesthat we see other companies
suffering from, which is they'retrying to win the volume game
and Toyota's trying to win therelevance game.
Corby Fine (24:36):
It's a good example.
And Brad Bettinson, VP ofEnterprise Solutions at JAM
Direct.
Feeling like a guest in myhouse, I guess, through this.
I do have to caveat as I havethe last few episodes when we
talk about AI, this podcast is100 percent human generated.
So, uh, trust me on that one.
No AI on this.
Brad, thanks for joining metoday.
I think there's some, some greattips and some great forecasts,
(24:57):
and I think we can both agreethat email is not a fax machine
and it's just part of a omnichannel, multi point, multi
touch, personalized, soon to beAI enabled and enhanced
communications channel, ifthat's the best way to put
Brad Bettinson (25:10):
you.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Corby Fine (25:12):
Take care.
So I can remember for many, many years thinking
about all of the things that weused to use and now don't use
anymore.
My grandparents were reallygreat future tellers.
They bought a Betamax.
That should say it all.
I literally remember going totheir house,
Brad Bettinson (00:59):
VHS.
Corby Fine (01:00):
putting in tapes.
That was a loss.
Now that's a little differentthan other things.
Like, let's say the fax machine,which ultimately was the
mainstay of communication forbusiness and sometimes personal.
The pager, those were thingsthat had utility, but ultimately
lost to other technologies.
And with me today to talk alittle bit about one of those
(01:22):
potential technologies, and Ithink this is going to be a nice
little debate is Brad Bettinson,who is the VP of enterprise
solutions at JAM Direct, JAM isa Toronto based agency that
specializes in CRM marketing.
Brad's got over 20 years ofexperience.
He's an email and marketingautomation expert.
He helps clients achievecustomer centric
transformations.
He's part seasoned marketer andpart technology solution
(01:44):
developer leading the design andimplementation of enterprise
scale marketing automationsolutions.
He's also a great speaker.
I've seen him speak, sharing hisinsights on personalization and
automation at all kinds ofconferences like Salesforce
Connections, Dreamforce, MarTechconference, et cetera.
Brad, welcome to the podcasttoday.
Brad Bettinson (02:04):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Corby Fine (02:05):
Uh, the technology, which I haven't yet said by
design, because I want to getyour, your take It's email is.
Is email dead?
Is it becoming sort of like thatfax machine that had its utility
and then just sunset off intothe horizon?
Brad Bettinson (02:23):
Yeah.
I mean, I've heard that questiona few times and funny enough, it
was like five years ago.
I was presenting somewhere andsomeone said, you know, is email
dead.
My kids don't use it.
And it was pretty funny.
It caught me off guard becauseI'm like, well, it's such a
mainstay.
But yeah, I mean, at some point,every technology does get
replaced by something newer andbetter.
So at some point it will happen,but I think it might be better
(02:47):
to think about email indifferent categories.
Like how do we use it?
So for example, peer to peeremail definitely is becoming a
fax machine.
Like the older you are in thespectrum, you may, if you're
going to, you know, go to therestaurant with your friends
next week.
You might email them and say,Hey, let's go out.
But you go younger on thespectrum and it's like, no way.
(03:08):
They're not using email tocommunicate with friends.
They're using one of the myriadof other better, more instant
tools.
Um, and on the peer to peerside, it's pretty funny.
I'm a WhatsApp person myself.
And so I have a friend coming infrom out of town.
We WhatsApp every day, but whenit came to their itinerary.
They emailed it to me becausethey want to make sure I
(03:30):
actually show up at the airporton time.
And they don't want thatimportant information of when
their flight arrives to getlost, you know, in that thread
that's constantly kind of eatingits own tail.
Corby Fine (03:41):
So, to that point, you mentioned the myriad of
other more instant tools.
And so I think that's one of thekey things.
Email, while I think those of uswho are a little older to your
point think of it as, fairlyinstant in comparison to the
things that we grew up with.
There are way more real timepinging, notifying, buzzing in
(04:01):
your pocket all the time kind oftools.
So how has email marketing.
And email as a tool evolvedessentially over the last number
of years to stay relevant in aworld that is dominated by these
more instant gratifyingcommunication vehicles and
digital channels, whether it'sSnapchat, whether it's
Instagram, like what is it thatsays, hey, email has evolved to
(04:24):
stay relevant.
Brad Bettinson (04:26):
Yeah, I think, it's the way we prioritize all
these channels and what we usethem for.
I myself, I'm not handing out myWhatsApp to any companies.
I only want to hear from friendsand my intimate group, on
WhatsApp.
I don't want a company joiningthat conversation.
So, I think people will go outto social channels to do a lot
(04:50):
of things and brands can have arole in that conversation.
But when it comes to that likeone to one communication, data
and the openness to receive thatsuper personalized one to one
communication.
Like imagine you're on a websiteand you're about to purchase,
but you leave and you go toYouTube.
(05:11):
Now you understand you'll beretargeted.
But if the video and they juststopped in that teaser and said,
Brad, I know you just left thewebsite, go back and finish your
purchase.
Like that's sort of crossing aline.
That's you're out in YouTubeland because you want to watch
videos, not because you want tobe communicated to, but email is
very different.
Like that's your digitalpassport.
(05:32):
That's how you engage withcompanies, services, businesses.
So email, I think has got aresurgence, especially during
COVID because of the data drivennature and how personal it's
become.
So the, the old style, Hey,email is a marketing channel.
I got a million customers.
I'm going to just blast the samemessage to them.
(05:52):
That is definitely a fax machinemoment that's happening in email
now.
What is going to let somecompanies continue to be
successful is that data drivenaspect.
And that's hard stop.
If you can put relevance insomeone's inbox, they're open to
that conversation.
Corby Fine (06:08):
So I think one of the key things you're saying
here is there's a differencebetween the personal one to one
use of email.
Which is ultimately beingreplaced by social tools, social
channels, more instantgratifying enablers, but from a
business or a marketingperspective on behalf of an
organization, a brand, a productto an individual or a group,
(06:28):
we're still going strong, butyou, you've referenced the word
data, and personalization orrelevance a couple of times.
So that's obviously reallyimportant today, given the fact
that all of us from individualsto organizations to governments
are really putting a strongemphasis on privacy on data
(06:48):
protection on personalization,but done so with the consent of
the individual.
So how do you see?
The strategies thatorganizations are putting into
place, adapting to make surethat they are taking into
consideration what theindividual wants, but also
staying, you know, regulatorycompliant in that whole process.
(07:10):
And is it limiting anything?
Like, are there things we, wecan't do now as brands and
marketers because of these, I'mgoing to say tighter
restrictions, but let's sayguidelines and rules.
Brad Bettinson (07:21):
No, um, the rules are great actually.
And the data privacy is great.
And I think back to when CASLcame in, like everyone was like
concerned about CASL.
And all CASL did was it helpedcut out the junk that was going
to people's inbox.
Like you have to havepermission.
You have to treat their inboxwith respect, essentially, you
(07:42):
have to give them the right toopt out.
And so those rules actuallyhelped email as a channel
continue to be relevant to theconsumer.
And so data privacy is big, butalso phishing is a big concern.
Like a few years ago, you'd getthese laughable phishing emails
like, Oh, you forgot yourpassword and you need to log in
and give us all your details.
(08:02):
But they're getting reallysophisticated now.
So we're helping our clientsthread that needle of putting
emails in front of customersthat are clearly for that
customer.
They have enough personalidentification information that
they know, Hey, this is for me.
There's no way a phishingcompany could know this and this
and this, but we're also notcrossing that line, which, you
(08:25):
know, a few years back, youcould put a ton of personal
information in email, but nowwe're doing a better job of
handing off to more securechannels.
So email might start theconversation, but we'll quickly
pass them to the mobile app thathas a logged in state or the
customer portal that has alogged in state.
And that's the, that's the linewe're staying ahead of phishing
and being super relevant andmaking sure we, we hit that just
(08:49):
for me mark is what we call it,but we're not going so far that
the customer is like, wow, youput that balance in my email and
that's kind of embarrassing ifsomeone else saw that and so
that's how we're staying in themiddle of it.
Corby Fine (09:02):
I always used to think that the sort of litmus
test of too much would be if Iwas sitting on public transit
and my phone was open andsomebody was sitting behind me.
Would, would it be bad ordetrimental or embarrassing to
your point?
If someone actually sawsomething, so health information
or bank balances or things likethat, that you really don't want
(09:25):
anyone else to see, of course,limit it, don't put it in.
But you know, one of the thingsthat when I gave your
background, we talked and I usedthe word, CRM marketing, so
maybe just, your perspective onwhat is today the definition of
that?
Because we're talking so muchabout email, but then you
dropped in, well, yeah, but thatcould start the conversation and
(09:46):
it could lead to other channels.
What do you see in thedefinition of CRM marketing
today that an agency like JAM,or others who specialize in that
kind of area, uh, would considerwithin their purview.
Brad Bettinson (09:58):
Yeah.
It's a good example, or a goodquestion because we talk email a
lot because that tends to be thealpha channel for the clients.
If they have a really good apppenetration, then that might be,
but in most cases it's stillemail to start the conversation.
And we're really not an emailpartner so much these days, more
of an omni channel one to onejourney partner.
(10:19):
So we'll help clients, thecustomers will come into the
journey and then it's like,okay, do we even have email?
Most we do.
So we're talking email.
If we don't, okay, maybe it'sdirect messaging or direct mail.
Maybe it's SMS.
Maybe it's sharing, maybethey're in our journey, but
we're not serving up the rightcontent or they're just not
passing that threshold.
So though we're going to sharethat audience with.
(10:42):
other social platforms.
We're going to share thataudience with the SEM team so
that they can increase theirspend on this customer because
they're interested, but they'renot crossing whatever threshold
or goal we're looking for.
So yeah, it's a good point.
And it's, we're talking a lot ofemail, but all these things
apply to good one to one acrosswhatever channel that happens to
(11:03):
be.
So meet the customer where theyare essentially.
Corby Fine (11:07):
So given that, and all of the experience that you
and your agency have had, whatare you seeing now as some of
the emerging trends, some of theinnovations, both in email
marketing, but even moregenerally, this one to one
marketing that organizations,brands, and marketers should
actually be aware of to stayahead of the curve.
(11:28):
And at the same time, make surethey are compliant and following
the sort of data protection andregulatory rules.
Brad Bettinson (11:34):
Yeah.
So before I talk about thetrends, I'll back up a second.
I'll talk a bit about thechallenge that we're all facing.
And so COVID hits.
And every, Google has a greatstat, I can't remember, but it's
something like there was a nineyear advancement in people's
digital savviness that happenedin one year because everyone was
(11:55):
forced to get on zoom.
Everyone was forced to downloadthe app.
Everyone was forced to do thingsin a way more digital way than
they were before.
And the same thing forcompanies, your customers
weren't coming in store.
They weren't coming in to thegym, to that service.
So everyone switched andreinvested in email and included
data in that mix.
So what happened was email had aresurgence, but it's also had
(12:20):
because of automation, becauseof all these tools, just way too
much email.
So generally companies are mostlikely sending too much emails.
They're seeing emotionalunsubscribe from customers.
The tools at helping you skipmessages that you don't want to
see are improving.
So the companies that aresending generic stuff and just,
(12:43):
okay, I'm going to try and winthe volume game, they're going
to lose out.
And the trends are all around.
How do I win the relevance game?
How do I win the right to keeptop of mind and top of inbox
with my customer?
And so all the trends reallywork backwards from that
problem, which is.
(13:03):
There's so much noise in yourinbox, how do companies make
sure that they can increasetheir signal
Corby Fine (13:09):
I woke up this morning as I do every morning.
And even though I swear, I swearthat I unsubscribed to like five
things yesterday.
I have another 40 things in myinbox today.
It's just, it's remarkablyinsane how it just happens.
Brad Bettinson (13:24):
Yeah.
And I do think in the near, nearfuture, we are all going to have
AI assistants that are watchingour eyeballs, watching what we
read and then sorting our inboxfor us.
And that's going to be a realreckoning where the AI is going
to look at your email and belike, I don't see anything in
this for my user.
I'm not even going to show it tothem.
I don't care about your awesomesubject line.
(13:45):
They're not even going to seeit.
Corby Fine (13:46):
So I want to talk about AI, but let's nail out,
you know, give me the two orthree trends.
Cause I, I do think it'simportant because AI could be a
whole other podcast episode.
Brad Bettinson (13:56):
Yes, so before I talk trends, I do say nail the
basics.
So many clients, when weonboard, it's like, we're just
through AB testing.
We have the client the otherday, we just improve their UX a
little bit.
And we saw a 10 percent lift inclicks.
So it's like nail the basics,then move to things.
One of the ones that we like iscalled ask, learn, optimize.
So we think of email as this oneway channel.
(14:19):
But it doesn't have to be so wehad a banking client and they
had a cohort that looked likethey were about to attrite or
leave and we went with an emailthat says You know, is this the
right service for you?
And it's a very bold questionand then there's three buttons
Yes, no, and then like i'm notsure I can't remember exactly
(14:40):
But we saw a huge click rate.
So when you ask a customer aboutthem and you ask a really
important question, they're notafraid to say, no, it's not the
right service.
We land them on a personalizedpage.
We say, here are some otheroptions and handle that customer
moment in the most helpful waypossible.
So if you're not askingquestions in your emails, you
(15:00):
should be.
The other one, it's not a trendso much as it's this North star
we're always trying to get to,which is just for me.
So if you look at your emails ona spectrum, are they mass
marketing or is it somethingthat was a send of one?
So when the customer receivesthat they're like, oh I got this
because it's clearly for me It'striggered off that data event.
(15:23):
It says why I'm getting it.
It's just super relevant So lookat your emails on that spectrum
and then again, not so much atrend, but really, I think
having its moment in 2024 is theomni channel orchestration we
talked about earlier, where ifyou have your email team head
down with their content calendarand they don't know what the
social team is doing, they don'tknow what the DM team is doing,
(15:45):
they don't know what the appteam is doing, it's like, No,
no, back up.
Put them all in a room.
Their content calendars shouldbe one big content calendar.
We actually learned that, fromToyota.
They do that really well.
And it's not some big AIsolution.
It's a giant cheat with everyagency partner putting in their
content calendars and we allwork together as one big unit.
(16:07):
Um, and then the last one, whichis an AI thing as well, but a
lot of clients own these massiveplatforms that they just keep
adding tools to, but they can'tkeep up.
So sometimes the trend is rightunder your nose.
And one of my favorites is inmarketing cloud, it's send time
optimization.
Um, I think they had some issueswith it when it launched, but
(16:28):
it's really come into its own.
And even when we have clientswith smaller audiences.
Where instead of us as marketersgoing, oh four o'clock's, the
best time to send, you give itto the AI.
The AI looks at the last sixmonths of data, and then it'll
pick a personalized send timefor each, or it'll crowdsource
for the people that doesn't haveenough data.
So that's a, a bit of a trend,but also a note that you may
(16:49):
have the next, you know, clawingforward a percent increase on
your click-through rates.
It may already be in theplatform you have.
Corby Fine (16:58):
So that's a, uh, leverage the technologies you've
already invested in.
And I think to your point, a lotof the large, we'll call it
marketing cloud type platforms.
And again, I know listeners hereare going to say, well, there's
Adobe, there's Salesforce, andwe're going to have competitive
battles of opinion of what's thebest.
But irrespective, I think whatyou're seeing is.
(17:20):
The large organizations have themoney, the money's being spent
on innovation.
The innovation is obviouslyfocusing on AI implementation
into the platform.
So I guess one is what you'resaying.
If it's already there, why don'tyou try it and use it?
Cause it's faster, better,cheaper than having to do it on
your own.
Um, but then what else are youseeing around?
You know, you mentioned it acouple of times, you talked
about, you know, AI monitoringand making sure that only the
(17:42):
things that are most importantare prioritized in your inbox.
You talked about AI being usedfor send time optimization to
make sure that you're gettingemails at a time that you're
going to be responsive to it.
What else are you seeing aroundthe potential impact of AI and
machine learning in both emailmarketing, but also this journey
design one to one marketing thatgoes in an omni channel
(18:03):
ecosystem.
Brad Bettinson (18:05):
Yeah, I mean, AI is absolutely a game changer.
There is no doubt about it.
And you know, I'm at theseconferences and everyone's sort
of running around with impostersyndrome.
Like, is everybody have AIeverywhere?
And I'm behind the curve.
I had lunch with a friend theother day.
I'm going to steal their story.
It's not mine.
But they built a whole campaignwith AI start to finish, and
(18:26):
then they had the human team doit.
And so they launched both 50 50test split.
Now in the end, the humancampaign performed better.
But the AI campaign did notperform badly, and it was a lot
less expensive.
So there's sort of two importantlevers.
We want results, but we wantefficiency.
(18:46):
And, you know, I would love tohave seen a third group.
I mean, obviously, uh, time andresources are finite, but a
third group that's using AI andhumans, the best of both worlds,
because I think that campaignwould have performed the best
and also have, you know, thoseefficiencies mixed in.
(19:07):
So that's the way, you know, asan agency partner to our
clients, we're looking at AI is,sort of, more, better, faster.
And there are definitely someleaps ahead in terms of how AI
manages data, how AI will helpyou find opportunities in your
data.
So I think that's a big one.
(19:29):
We've helped clients implementAI solutions, like I think eight
years ago, we helped The Sourceimplement predictive
intelligence, because you hadhumans trying to figure out what
recommendations, but then youhad this AI machine learning
that could watch what peoplesurf, watch what they bought and
just nail it in terms ofrecommendations.
For Petco, for example, theywere using marketing clouds
(19:50):
predictive intelligence orEinstein product racks.
But it had a bit of a blind spotbecause AI can be a black box.
And that's the point I'm tryingto get to, which is black box AI
can be difficult to work with.
And they were having some reallygood success, but some really
bad recommendations in the mix.
And so we went in and we createda dashboard.
So the humans could see anddemystify.
(20:13):
So we could see about 200recommendations at once with the
customer data behind it.
And then we saw 90 percent ofthe time is bang on.
It's got all the data it needs.
It's got in store data.
But this 10%, it wasn't an AIproblem so much as a data
problem, but it's like, Hey, AIis going to have this blind spot
and that's where we would buildin some controls and do some
manual recos or have somefallback logic.
(20:36):
So I think that's a really goodmetaphor for the future of how
we're all using AI.
AI is going to do more and more.
But the humans in the hot seatare still required to apply that
accountability, that oversight,and that, you know, finesse to
really bring it to the nextlevel.
Corby Fine (20:53):
Yeah.
I think a lot of where peopleare starting with AI is on the
more side, as opposed to fasterand more begets its own issues,
which is.
In a world where we're trying tocreate relevance, more stuff in
theory means less relevance.
And so whether it's legal andcompliance, whether it's
validating that it is the rightmessage or the right product or
(21:14):
the right recommendation, thehuman element still needs to be
there.
And I do think that over timeyou will see more AI on the
process enablement for speed asopposed to, like, let humans
come up with ideation andcreativity and maybe automate
the process and the speed atwhich it gets to market through
legal, through compliance,through reviews, through
automated checkpoints between,you know, agency and client and
(21:37):
creative director and whoever.
But it is an interesting point,uh, that this black box AI, when
developers of platforms don'teven themselves fully understand
how the outputs are coming outof the system.
It's a little scary, but I thinkthat's where the human
intervention is still going tobe required.
Brad Bettinson (21:54):
Yeah.
And I think we've all who areusing AI have those odd moments
where it hallucinates, or itjust comes up with some answer
out of left field that would bea disastrous customer
experience.
So companies are faced with, Iwant the speed and efficiency of
AI.
But I need 100 percent in marketaccuracy, and I really do care
(22:16):
about my customers and my longterm relationship.
So we're kind of coming fullcircle to that the beginning
challenge of email, which is.
Too much.
There's too much in the inboxand AI is going to accelerate
that problem.
So I think the companies thatcan use AI to push customer
centricity, to push that justfor me emails on the spectrum.
(22:38):
So as an example, part of ourrole with clients is we enable
internal teams.
And we help them build what'scalled a playbook, which is
better emails, faster with 100percent in market accuracy
across enterprise organizations,which is easier said than done
because they have so many teamsand so many stakeholders.
So we're looking at this frombrief to analytics process, and
(23:00):
we're seeing the value of AI atso many steps.
But it's taking the people andthe expertise that are in the
steps that are owning it andempowering them to do more and
for us more typically means moreversions.
We want more dynamic content.
We want to get more personalizedSo we're not going to say to our
clients.
Oh good news.
You can now send 10 campaigns aday.
(23:22):
We're going to say, good news,those two and a half campaigns
you send a week, we can now gowider.
We can use AI to get moreversions, more personalization,
increase the relevance of whatwe're offering the customer so
that we win the right tocontinue that conversation, and
get that next open.
I'll close with, something we'velearned from Toyota, which is
(23:45):
Omotenashi.
And that's saying is treat acustomer like a guest in your
house.
And the work we've been doingwith Toyota, which we presented
at Dreamforce, there's probablya video of it online somewhere,
where instead of sending sevencampaigns a month, like each
department sending their owncampaign, we put them together
(24:05):
into one larger campaign andmade it super relevant.
There's something like sixmillion possible permutations
that can come out of this.
And they see a month after monthincrease in engagement because
Toyota guarantees you willalways get something of value in
their emails.
Like that's their promise.
And by doing that for the past Xnumber of years, they're not
(24:28):
suffering from the same issuesthat we see other companies
suffering from, which is they'retrying to win the volume game
and Toyota's trying to win therelevance game.
Corby Fine (24:36):
It's a good example.
And Brad Bettinson, VP ofEnterprise Solutions at JAM
Direct.
Feeling like a guest in myhouse, I guess, through this.
I do have to caveat as I havethe last few episodes when we
talk about AI, this podcast is100 percent human generated.
So, uh, trust me on that one.
No AI on this.
Brad, thanks for joining metoday.
I think there's some, some greattips and some great forecasts,
(24:57):
and I think we can both agreethat email is not a fax machine
and it's just part of a omnichannel, multi point, multi
touch, personalized, soon to beAI enabled and enhanced
communications channel, ifthat's the best way to put
Brad Bettinson (25:10):
you.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Corby Fine (25:12):
Take care.
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