Fire and Ice ... Baths: Diving Into the Benefits of Cold Water Therapy

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On this episode, Firefighters Tyler Scriver and Brent Harding team up with Captain Neal Gibbons  to share their personal experiences about the bone-chilling benefits of cold water immersion therapy. Starting from Neal's cold showers in Haiti through to his use of the therapy to manage his body temperature as a firefighter, you will get a  new look into the world of ice baths and cold showers. Neal, also  brings his unique insights from the Wim Hof method and how the habit of cold water immersion has transformed his life.

Pushing the boundaries of discomfort, this episode explores why not just your body, but your mind too, should take the plunge. Beyond just physical gains, Tyler shares how mastering his breathing during immersion helped him take charge of his primitive brain, revealing a side to the therapy that promotes mental fortitude. We also delve into the importance of safety measures and share tips on optimizing your cold water immersion experience. Whether you're an athlete or endurance trainer, you'll learn the best times and temperatures to practice cold water therapy.

As we dive into the icy depths, we also highlight how cold water immersion therapy can help build resilience and even strengthen relationships. Breaking through the initial shock, this episode uncovers how the challenge of facing icy waters head-on can lead to significant rewards, from mental toughness to a sense of accomplishment. Listen in to understand the science behind it all and learn how to take control of your body and mind when the temperature drops. This episode is a burst of insights on how cold water immersion therapy can be a game-changer in your life.

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Episode Transcript

Brent Harding (00:00):
We're back today with two repeat guests, tyler
Scriver and Neil Gibbons,talking about the immense amount
of suffering they have liked tocause the apartment.
We're going to be talking aboutice baths today and some of the
benefits, both physical fitnesswise and also mental wellness
wise, so let's just jump rightin.

(00:21):
See what I did there.
Jump right in, ah, okay, ohit's cold, we'll cut that part
out.
So why don't you kick us off?
Because I think you have beenresearching and doing this the
longest with the Wim Hof Methodstuff and cold showers, and so
tell us a little bit about yourjourney with cold immersion and

(00:41):
how you got into it and thenwhat's kept you going with it.

Neal Gibbons (00:45):
Yeah, and I can't really take credit for getting
started on it by myself.
I worked a lot with KinstrawCorey Bingham.
That kind of introduced me tothe Wim Hof Method and the more
I started finding out about WimHof his life story was just
extraordinary and just thethings he was able to do
physically is incredible and Istarted looking into that and

(01:09):
reading his book is prettyinteresting.
It's just it's called the WimHof Method, but it's.
It's a good read If you'reinterested in this.
That's where I started andgetting into that.
He talks about his little bit ofhis life story and then he just
talks about how he found out orhow he noticed that there was
benefits from getting into coldwater or cold water immersion

(01:30):
therapy.
And so I remember talking aboutit with Bingo one day and we
were sitting around and I waslike this seems pretty hokey,
bingo, and he's, you got to tryit.
And he he eventually talked meinto it and it was just turning
the shower all the way cold atthe end of the shower and you
talk to people and say I've beentaking cold showers and they're
like you take a cold shower andand yeah, when I was on my
mission in Haiti we didn't haveheated water and so every shower

(01:53):
was a cold shower and you getused to it.
But I mean that first, the firstcouple of drops of the little
eight ounce cup scooping it outof my five gallon bucket shower
bucket, I'd dump that on yourhead and every time it was just
a good cold shock.
And that was probably the firsttime that I noticed the shock
and how, how strange that was.

(02:13):
And looking back and thinkingabout that, I've had the
discussion with a couple ofpeople but my ability to
thermoregulate.
In Haiti I didn't feel like Iwas always burning, boiling hot,
but I knew it was super hotoutside.
It was super dry when I carrieda handkerchief in my pocket all
the time and that was just towipe my face, and some poor
white guy in the middle of Haitiwhere I didn't see another

(02:35):
white person for a month at somepoints, but it was just to
clarify for our audience this isa Christian mission, not prison
.
Yeah.

Brent Harding (02:44):
It was not prison cups.
Five gallon buckets, hot ashell.

Neal Gibbons (02:47):
But, yeah, hot as Haiti, but anyway it was by
choice to go there.
But yeah it getting there anddoing that anyway.
That's where I started doing it.
And then, like doing tree workand being outside all day long,
I would come in and just beoverheated or felt like I was
super warm and I'd take a coldshower in summers.
And then, as a firefighter, asI started talking to Corey about

(03:10):
that and started to make theconnection between some of those
things that for my past andwhat he was talking about, I was
like this there is some realscience there and I started
doing two or three minutes.
At the end of my showers Iwould just turn it all the way,
cold or as cold as I could standit.
And Wim Hof he talks about it'snot about going from zero to 60.

(03:30):
You start out with 15 secondsin the cold, as cold as is on,
as as you can stand it, to whereit's still uncomfortable, to
where you still get that coldshock, and working your way up
to 30 seconds and then prettysoon you're doing a minute and
pretty soon it doesn't botheryou anymore and it still, to
this day, like when I get in, ifI start with a warm shower and

(03:51):
I, once I turn it cold, I stillget that initial shock Ooh, you
get that kind of takes yourbreath away, which that's the
point.
But doing that there's there'sa ton of benefits which we can
we'll.
I'm sure we'll have time totouch on that later, but that's
where I started and I've I'vebeen doing cold showers pretty
much.
I don't think I've missed ashower where I haven't turned to
cold in the last around threeyears, just over three years,

(04:15):
and that's there's.
I've seen a ton of hugebenefits from that, now that I
understand a lot of the sciencebehind it.

Brent Harding (04:22):
Yeah, I think that's awesome and it goes along
with that from building atomichabits, even if it's, like you
said, just for 15 seconds at theend of the shower or whatever.
But just by doing it every timeyou're starting to build that
habit and then it becomes thatmuch easier every time If you
make that habit of at leastdoing turning to cold every
single time.
Have you noticed a differencesince the more recent ice baths

(04:44):
over cold showers, or is it apretty similar experience?

Neal Gibbons (04:47):
There is a difference, because the ice bath
is is definitely moreuncomfortable than the cold
showers.
And I remember with the coldshowers there's a day when when
Corey had been taking coldshowers for a long time as well,
but we both had been on thatcold shower kick.
We were on a traffic accidentdown in front of Macy's and I
remember one of the UHP guys wastalking to us and we had our

(05:09):
bunker pants on, but he he comesover and he's what are you guys
doing?
It's starting to rain out hereand you guys are in T-shirts and
me and Corey looked at eachother and was like are you cold?
No, are you cold, no.
And he had his big heavy wintercoat on and he was just like
you guys are insane.
It's freezing out here and Ithought it's really pleasant and
the rain was a little bitchilly, but I felt fine and that

(05:30):
, that, now that reading some ofthat new or getting into some
of the new data that we've, I'verecently discovered things to
Tyler that makes a lot of senseand seeing my body's ability to
thermoregulate back then versusnow the ice baths it's I don't
know.
The ice baths are differentbecause it makes you so
uncomfortable.
Some joints hurt or some someparts of your body hurt when

(05:52):
you're in there, but thengetting out you feel just that
huge dopamine rush and you'reyou feel so good.
For so long afterwards I don'tfeel like I get super hot or
super cold anymore when I gooutside, in whatever
temperatures it is, and I stilldo a fair amount of work just
out in the yard last year goingto wildland.

(06:13):
There's there's there's allkinds of times doing tree work
outside.
It's super hot, but I don't Ifeel like I'm really getting
overheated.
Ever and same with the cold.
I don't ever feel like I'mgetting too cold.
My fingers, my hands might getsuper cold if I don't have a
decent set of gloves on orsomething, but like I don't feel
like I get.
I don't ever feel like I'mreally cold or really hot
anymore.

Brent Harding (06:31):
Yeah, I think that's great.
I wish my story of forgettinginto it was cooler, but it's
nothing short of peer pressurefrom YouTube.
So just so you guys would stillbe my friend, but Tyler tells
us a little bit how you got intoit and what you've learned as
you've gone along.
Yeah, yeah.

Tyler Scriver (06:45):
For a while it was just kind of like something
that was mentioned.
Oh yeah, Cold baths Joe Rogangetting a cold bath and I didn't
really have any desire to do it, because I hate being cold.
I absolutely love it.
I tell my kids I would ratherburn alive than be cold for a
second.
But as a crew we startedwatching this documentary I

(07:06):
think it was called Limitlesswith with Chris Hemsworth and
part of that.
He swims in the Alaskan Sea orsomething crazy like that.
The start of the episode, hethey're sitting on some port in
Alaska, like Anchorage orsomething like that, and his
coach was like, all right, let'sget in the water.
And he jumps in and he's oh mygosh, it's cold.
And seeing how much hestruggled with it, us as a crew

(07:28):
are like, okay, that's crazy,we're not going to do that.
But by the end of the episodewe're like we're doing it.
And the next morning the planwas is to clear out a recycling
bin, fill it full of snow andwater and then jump in there.
So we were ready to roll and,as luck would have it have it, I
ended up going on a transfer toprimary children's shock, and I

(07:50):
think I can't remember who elsewas there.
But yeah, yeah.
So we were there, we're gettingready to do it, and then got to
go on a transfer.
So we go on our transfer andI'm driving and I'm listening to
stuff, but the whole time I'mthinking about I really do not
want to do this anymore Likethis is the worst idea ever.
So we drop off our patient andwe're driving back and I just

(08:12):
finally told myself, like you'regoing to do it, you're going to
get in there and, regardless ofwhat happens, you're going to
at least try something,something new, do something
difficult, do somethingchallenging.
We pull in and Cap Chalk he hasthe recycling bin just chucked
full of snow and ice.
I think the first couple oftimes we did this I can't

(08:34):
remember it was January,february or something crazy like
that and my partner he's okaylike when are we going to do
this?
When is it going to happen?
I was like I'm doing it rightnow and I just walked over.
I took my clothes off, I had toclimb up a ladder to get into
the ice bath and then I went inthere and it was awesome In the
moment.
It was like a first.
I was almost like a cat tryingto stay out of the bathtub.

(08:55):
I got my arms on the side ofthis recycling bin and I'm
trying to keep every ounce ofevery inch of my body out of it
and I was like no, I told myselfI was going to do this.
And then I dunked and CaptainChalk was there and I remember
going in and I'm thinking I gotto get out of here and I got to
do it fast and he just as sillyas it sounds he's looked at me

(09:16):
and said hey, it's Graver,you're safe, buddy, like you're
okay.
And then this switch justflicked in my brain and I was
like I am safe.
This is uncomfortable, this themy fingers, my toes.
They hurt, but I'm safe and Ican, and I can do this.
Took a couple deep breaths Ican't remember how long I was in
there the first time and Ithought, man, my whole body's in

(09:37):
here and I'm doing this and Iwill look back at like the
picture of my first ice bath andit was like barely up to my
shoulders.
That's crap, that sucks.
Next time I'm going all the wayin.
Well, after my first one, then Ireally started to to absorb
some information about it,really tried to seek it out.
I listened to a few podcastsand in these podcasts you you

(09:59):
learn about all of this coolstuff that your body does when
you submerge it in the freezingcold water, and I needed to get
more of it.
It was weird because it wasthere, was there was a mental
part where I was like I didsomething hard and I want to do
that again, but this time I wantto go for longer.
I don't know if I could get anycolder because of that
recycling bin.
Well, it's chucked full of snow.

(10:20):
But then my body was like Ilike that.
I know I usually have issues ITband issues in my knee and I
got out and you're cold andwhatnot, but throughout the day
I noticed, man, that sucker'sgone, like I haven't felt that
all day.
We went and we did the stairsand I didn't feel it.
I didn't feel it for a coupleweeks and I came back and I was

(10:42):
like I guess it's time foranother ice bath.
Then I was hooked and we wentfrom recycling bin to now we
have like a like a tote and I'vebeen in the kneel special which
is like the, the creme d'olà,creme of ice baths.
That thing is awesome, but yeah, now I can't go without it.
It was like last week I was in abad mood.

(11:02):
I had my kids and you know Iwas trying to be a good dad.
We went to the swimming pool.
I was tired from being on shift.
I wanted to work out, but I wassuper sore and I just knew that
I wasn't going to be able toget a good workout and I was
like I wonder what the 120 boysare doing right now.
It's like I should text them.
I should go get in an ice bathand then, not even 20 minutes
later, I get a picture of theirBrent his first ice bath in

(11:28):
there and I was like I gottamake this happen.
That's gonna say that was mylast one, but we did another one
on shift and now I can't getenough of it.

Brent Harding (11:36):
It's crazy because I feel like, yeah,
initially it was 100% peerpressure for me, but then, as I
did it just a few more times,since, like the first time I did
it, when I was super sore aftera leg day and just that type of
sore where if you sit down formore than three minutes then the
stand up is like excruciating.
But man after doing the ice bathout, being that sore and then

(11:57):
just having that relief for afew hours after that ice bath,
it felt so good.
That kind of got me more hookedbeyond my initial reasons to
get in.
But it's funny that the samereasons that kept me out were
similar to yours and that all myPTSD from being freezing cold
on scalp camps I was like no,I'm not getting in that bath.

Neal Gibbons (12:16):
I hated those camps.

Brent Harding (12:18):
It was so cold.
But let's talk about a few morebenefits that you guys have
seen, both physically andmentally, and then we'll get
into some maybe some dos anddon'ts after that.
But you know what you've beendoing for a long time.

Neal Gibbons (12:30):
What are some of the benefits you've noticed in
your life, both physically andmentally, yeah, kind of going
back to just what you guys haveboth already said the, the
aspect of not being sore, takingaway a lot of that inflammation
, especially anytime you'redoing an extensive workout or
doing something where you'rejust completely gassed
afterwards.
You want to just have a way toto get feeling better or try to

(12:53):
prevent some of that soreness ofthe next day.
I've done that quite a fewtimes and you know what the when
we go to stairs we put our our35 pound air packs on, we're
running around the footballstadium or the basketball
spectrum and it's it's a lot ofstairs and a lot of times like
mentally I I'm conflicted, Idon't want to go.
But I want to go because I wantthat feeling of afterwards, or

(13:15):
feeling that I get after the,the workout, that feeling of
accomplishment, that thatdopamine release and then
knowing that you did somethingsuper hard and how many benefits
you're going to be gaining fromthat workout.
Going back to that, thebenefits from that you there's
no, it doesn't seem like there'snearly as much inflammation for
an extended period of time on.

(13:37):
And recently, last Saturday, Iwent and did the spartan beast
at snow basin, which was brutaland it took me six hours nine
minutes.
I did it last year it was it'sa 21k, it ended up being 15.39
miles this year and I wasfeeling pretty good about it.
Went home, got some ice, threwit in the ice bath and I sat in
there and I just felt awesome.

(13:57):
I knew I was going to be supersore getting out of the car just
from driving home from OgdenCanyon like I.
It hurt to stand up I.
So I drove to my brother inLawson, smithfield with my truck
, which is a manual, so I get inmy truck to drive home and I'm
like struggling to push theclutch in and I get it in gear
and then I just dry shifted thewhole way home because I
couldn't push the clutch inagain.
So but getting home, like I gotin the ice bath afterwards I

(14:21):
was like I feel great and Iremember exactly how I felt last
year after it and it was likean extended two or three days
that I felt terrible, just mylegs and everything was just
shot.
But this year I had a littlebit of soreness after the fact.
But I did the ice bath prettymuch consecutively every day
since that, since last Saturday,and yesterday was really the
first day I hadn't done it, butI feel awesome.

(14:43):
No inflammation, no, no supersoreness.

Brent Harding (14:46):
Tyler, tell us a little bit more I know you've
gone pretty deep into thescience of some of the
physiological benefits and I'lltell us a little bit about
what's going on with your bodywhen you do the cold immersion
and why it's helpful for yourbody to go through that process.

Tyler Scriver (15:00):
Yeah, yeah.
So initially you I mean, wecould get crazy deep in this, to
the point where humans are someof the only creatures out there
and whales are the other onesbut we have a special section in
our brain that allows us to dosomething.
That hurts.
Right, I'm gonna jump in thisice, I know it's gonna hurt, but
I'm gonna get some, somebenefits out there.

(15:21):
Most animals, most most thingsout there, they don't, they
can't do that.
We and the the volume of cellsthat we have in our brain, even
compared to a whale, is justcrazy, crazy different.
So you get in there and youfeel that shock.
Right, your body's gonna gointo survival mode, which sounds
like a horrible thing.

(15:41):
But that's what our bodies aresupposed to be doing.
Our bodies are supposed to beprotecting us and we're supposed
to have all this different kindof stimulus mental and physical
, and all that stuff.
So initially, you're gonna geta bunch of epinephrine, you're
gonna get a bunch ofnorepinephrine and you're you're
gonna have, like, either yourperipheral arteries and

(16:02):
capillaries and stuff like that.
Those are all gonna constrict.
But this cool thing thathappens is you, as you sit in
there, your body actually makesthis thermal air around your
body, where it things.
It's not that it's gonna feelwarm, but it doesn't necessarily
get any colder, which is a goodsurvival technique.
We're gonna talk about gettingrid of that.

(16:23):
When you're in an ice bath, toreally just get the most out of
the experience, so agitating thewater, moving around, getting
more of that cold, but, yeah,doing the chicken wing, yeah, so
as you do that, the, there'sall sorts of crazy stuff cold
shock proteins, proteins thatyour body doesn't release, it
doesn't, it doesn't use untilyou are in a quote, unquote life

(16:46):
or death situation to help yourbody survive.
So those are going to bereleased and then a lot of
people are unfamiliar.
But you have this you have fatthat's around like your
collarbones and it's.
It's a specialized fat, it's.
You have brown fat and you havewhite fat.
White fat would be the generaladipose tissue.
The your body fat love handlesthat kind of stuff.

(17:08):
The, the fat that people hate.
That really is just energystorage.
Brown fat is actually almostlike an organ and it it helps
with metabolism.
So when your body gets in thatcold water, it's going to boost
your metabolism.
Most of the calories you burnthroughout the day are just to
maintain your body temperature.
So when you drop that bodytemperature, you're gonna have

(17:31):
to start burning more caloriesin order to keep that up.
There's the.
When you get out of the ice bathand you start to shiver, your
body then starts to dilate allthose blood vessels.
It starts to warm up.
It actually the normal.
The normal rhythm throughoutthe day is you start cold from
when you are sleeping.
You warm up a couple degrees asyou're awake and then as you

(17:53):
fall asleep, your body starts tocool down again.
What the ice bath does is itcools your body super fast, but
when you get out, your body thenhas to warm up.
So it'll help with the wholewaking process.
One of the don'ts is don't doit right before bed.
It's like caffeine.
Some people can do it, somepeople shouldn't do it, but it
warms up your body, which wakesyou up.

(18:14):
And then we could.

Brent Harding (18:16):
We could say that's one of the biggest mental
benefits I've seen.
Totally, like just this lastshift, like sometimes,
especially if it's a littleslower, whatever, and even if
you're trying to stay busy, itjust seems like there's an
afternoon like lull, where it'ssuper hard to stay motivated, to
keep training or to keepstudying or to keep working on
whatever you're doing.
But, man, every time I've gottento that point then I just tell

(18:39):
myself, okay, I'm gonna do anice bath, and then it is.
It's like starting fresh in themorning, ready to go, like I
just got out of bed and you justfeel a renewed sense of I don't
know motivation and energy tolike.
And I feel and I've seen iteven on the off days like it's
it's been, because I feel like Itry to stay pretty busy on my
four off, but if I'm starting tofeel that way during the day

(18:59):
too, I'll text the guys 120.
Hey, do you mind if I come upand take a nice bath real quick?
Because, man, when I do it andthen I come back to the office
or whatever, I am so much moreproductive because my body's
just more I don't know, I guesswaking up and ready to go yeah,
you think we consume caffeine toblock the, the tired hormone,
which is no, that's one of them.

Tyler Scriver (19:21):
And then it starts with an a adenosine
adenosine.
Thank you, I'm not a medic, bythe way, I'm just um, yeah, so
caffeine blocks the adenosinereceptors in your body and
that's all it does.
That's why you have that crash.
You drink caffeine, it blocksit like narcan, right.
It makes you so adenosine can'tgo into those receptors.
When caffeine is gone, you havemore adenosine in there and so

(19:43):
you feel more tired.
So you're gonna drink morecaffeine, right, and ice bath is
your physiological drinkingcaffeine without the caffeine
and in your body's gonna do a 10times better job than any kind
of chemical that you can putinto it.
So, yeah, you get thatawakeness, that wakefulness, and
then neil was talking aboutthat.
So you did something hard andas a reward, you're gonna feel

(20:06):
good because you get this, thisother neurotransmitter, you get
dopamine that's released intoyour body and you feel
accomplished and you feelmotivated.
And then we we mentioned it fora second, but for chronic pain.
Actually, jason ward, he was a.
He came up and he worked ashift at 71 with us and he did
not want to get in there and hewas complaining about having
some sciatic pain and the waythat I peer pressured him into

(20:28):
it was like, dude, you gettingthat ice back, you're not.
You're not gonna feel yoursciatic like it's.
It's, it's gonna take yourbreath away, but guarantee after
that you're not gonna, you'renot gonna even notice it's there
, jumps in the ice bath.
He stays in there for I don'tknow five, six minutes like a
champ.
He gets out, he warms up andhe's going throughout the day
and the next, the next morning,he's.

(20:49):
I'm felt my sciatic pain sincewe got in there and we got him
hooked.
And then he the next thing Iknow he's at 72 and they've got
an ice bath going down there andeverybody's jumping in the ice
bath at 72.
The reason why is because jason, he was hurting.
It's like my it band.

Brent Harding (21:04):
It hurts, it sucks, but you jump in there,
that pain goes away and, man, itfeels so good to be pain free
yeah, there's a couple otherbenefits too that I've heard
about, but I don't know any ofthe science behind them is like
immune system boost and helpbetter sleep at night if you
don't do it right before you goto bed.
But either of you familiar withany of the why it's helpful in
those areas?

Neal Gibbons (21:25):
yeah, the and actually tiler he introduced me
to.
There's a lady, dr susannasoberg, from denmark.
She did a podcast with thehuberman lab guy and she was
talking about immunity boosting.
And she's like I.
In the scandinavian countriesthey'll take their babies and
put them in the, their strollers, or she calls them prams, but

(21:45):
they put them outside to take anap and they have that cold
exposure in the winter time ontheir face and a lot of our
receptors are in our face.
That's.
That's partially why, like whenwe talk about doing a vagal
response or trying to helpsomebody in svt, you can.
One of the options is to putice on their face or put their
face in a bowl of ice water,which isn't or it doesn't seem

(22:06):
like it's a great idea.
We're going to drown thisperson in ice water to help so
their heart down.
But the, the science behind thatis that's going to initiate
that initial shock, activatethat catacolamine response with
the like what tiler talked about, the norepinephrine,
epinephrine of the dopamine, butthat helps to shock the body
and the more shocks that you getwith that the that lady she

(22:28):
talks about.
That's going to be what helpsbuild the immunity of people
when they do with their babiesand that helps them build a
better immunity that sustainsthroughout their life.
And I think partially it's justbecause it's it's colder.
They're in Scandinavia, they'reable to do that and they
continue to do that where theygrew up being exposed to that
extreme cold and that's one likeshe talks about.

(22:49):
I think she now she does liketo.
They have a whole bunch ofpeople out in the bay that just
go hop in the bay in the wintertime and go for a swim.
They do it every day.
And doing that type of a thingjust being able to shock your
body it builds up that immunitylevel and it's it's just our
natural body's response and I Idon't fully understand the
science behind it, but it worksand I'm being a paramedic, I

(23:09):
should know that type of thing,but I really don't.

Tyler Scriver (23:11):
One other one that I I felt the mention was
there recently has been a studyon doing a cold bath before you
do resistance training, andwe'll talk about cold baths and
resistance training when we'dcome to the do-it-don'ts.
But this group of I want to saythey were australians two
groups one that was just doingresistance training, one that
would do a cold bath or coldexposure and then do resistance

(23:33):
training.
The cold bath and theresistance training had a crazy,
significant increase intestosterone.
And then we we need hightestosterone levels.
Crazy thing, women.
They also need testosterone.
Doing that cold exposure, doingthat resistance training, has
helped maximize that group ofindividuals testosterone levels.
So sleep, testosterone, paincontrol, it's.

(23:55):
It's pretty awesome what youcan do with a little bit of cold
water.

Brent Harding (23:58):
Yeah and I think, circling back to the whim hoff
method, right, it's almost likethe more practice you get at
this and putting your body intothat survival mode, because
during survival mode you're atyour peak performance for
everything, right, like yourbody's doing everything to help
you survive, and getting to thepoint where you can control that
a little bit more.
You're not.

(24:18):
It's not circumstantial towhere you have to wait to be in
a circumstance for your body togo under that mode, but to be in
practice to where you're incontrol of when you put yourself
into that mode.
And that seems like that'swhere Wim Hof is right, like he
can control his core bodytemperature whenever he wants,
and that's pretty crazy.
So yeah, just the benefits sofar outweigh the discomfort that

(24:43):
you just have to startbelieving it.
And for my experience soundslike Ward's experience and some
of your guys experience you justhave to experience the benefit
one time and then that pain free, that rejuvenation, and then
you're hooked.
And I think for anybody outthere that's been skeptical man
just giving it one try, whichreally you can get a lot of

(25:03):
benefit out of, just for the onetime, but you'll, you'll be
hooked.
So let's go over, let's startinto some of the dos and don'ts,
because there definitely is awrong way to do it, that can not
be helpful and be harmful toyour workout routine, and I know
other things.
And then also some good thingsto consider when starting and I
think we can work from like abasic level to an advanced level
, because I think you sent methat Huberman thing the other

(25:26):
day that said five minutes at 68degrees is still helpful, so
you don't have to go to 32.6 for15 minutes to like right out of
the gate.
There is a way you can workinto maybe more colder, more
time or whatever, but you canget immediate benefits from what
he called an annoyingly coldexposure.

Tyler Scriver (25:44):
Yeah, okay, so let's start.
General rule of thumb is youokay?
So the colder, the less timethat you have to spend in there
If you're and the hard part withthis is a lot of people.
They want to know hard and fastwhat the temperature is.
How long do I need to stay inthere?
And it's for even for themental benefits.
It all depends on howacclimated you are to the cold.

(26:06):
So if Neil would get in therefor a 60 degree temperatures,
he's probably feel like he's ina hot tub.
We didn't all spend time in aHaitian prison, yeah but there
are other people out there that60 degrees is cold and if they
get in there five, six minutesthey're going to get a even just
one exposure a week.
They're going to get a moodboost from that dopamine.

(26:29):
So the colder, the less timethat you need to spend in there.
But again, it just goes off ofthat general rule of thumb.
You want to try to have atleast 11 minutes total exposure
throughout the week, not in onesingle sitting.
The first time the dang shockfamily came up and did it At
this point we've been doing itfor a couple of weeks and we're

(26:50):
like oh yeah, we're going tolook like rock stars.
I get in there, I'm in therefor seven minutes.
I'm like so cool and shock JC,shock, jesse, shock.
They jump in there and they'rein there for 15 minutes and
we're like throw some snow inthere, making it uncomfortable
for them.
They still just rock just justin there, dunking their heads.
That would be a good example.
Maybe they spend a little bitmore time.
You definitely need to be safe.

(27:11):
Cold baths awesome Cold,controlling the environment and
controlling the situationsaround it.
Right, you're in a tub versus alake or a river.
You go out into a really coldriver and you're out there for
too long.
You could drown.
Be careful with that Jumping ina tub.
Just remember Andy telling youthat you're safe.
It doesn't.
Six minutes is about the mostbenefit that you're going to get

(27:35):
for as far as your body goes,but the mental benefit of being
in there for a little bit longerup to 15 minutes somewhere
around there, those are somegood places to start.
So if it were me and I were todo it all over again, I would
skip the recycling bin.
Cause that was where I would getset up like you guys have at
120, throw some ice and somewater and I would practice just

(27:55):
going in, staying in there for acouple of minutes, then coming
out and then trying to get that11 minutes throughout the week.
As far as exercise and trainingand things like that, you got
to decide what are you trainingfor If you're training for
hypertrophy or strength.
So if you're trying to buildmuscle or build strength, you
shouldn't do a cold bath afteryou work out.

(28:15):
The longer you wait betweenwhen you work out to when you
have that cold exposure, thebetter.
So it's a minimum of four hours, preferably six to eight hours.
My perfect day Wake up, get ina cold bath, go to the gym, do a
good warm up, spend 15 minutesgetting all the blood back into
my fingers and my toes, do an, alift and then being done, and

(28:36):
then probably if I was feelingreally crazy probably around six
, six o'clock at night andjumping in for another short
exposure.
If you are training for aSpartan, if you are training for
a half marathon, if you'redoing endurance type training,
you can do a cold bath rightafter right.
If you're training for amarathon and you have a week

(28:58):
where you have tons and tons ofmiles that week.
Jump into a cold bath rightafter you're done training.
Part of that with the enduranceis recovering, and recovering
quickly.
That cold bath, that coldexposure, is going to help you
do that process.
You can wear gloves.
You can wear booties.
Some people they don't like theway it makes their hands feel.
Keep your hands out of thewater.

(29:19):
Put gloves on there's.
If you have neuropathy in yourfingers and your toes it can be
very painful.
So either keep them out of thewater or get these little
booties, put those on there andthen jump in.

Brent Harding (29:30):
Is it important to go up to?
Is it important to go up toyour shoulders, Up to your neck?
Is prefer.

Tyler Scriver (29:35):
Yep, yep, up to your neck is preferred.
The other thing that you can dois, if you get a headache when
you jump in there because you'reup to your neck, you can put a
cap on.
Put a stocking cap on, andthat's supposed to help prevent
those headaches from happening.

Brent Harding (29:48):
So Neil made me dunk my head this last time.
Good he threatened to do.

Neal Gibbons (29:52):
I don't know if this is like peer pressure
hazing I haven't found that oneyet but is there?

Brent Harding (29:56):
what are the?
Is that a do or a don't?
Doesn't matter.
Yeah, I know what Neil's goingto say.

Tyler Scriver (30:01):
I say do it at least a couple times.
You have that.
You can have that experience.
Dunking your head is going tospeed up how much heat you lose.
Your body temperature mightdrop a little bit faster.
You might not be able to stayin there safely if you, if you
dunk your head.
I tell you what.
There are times that I crave tohave my face in cold water now,

(30:22):
and when I jump in that icebath and at the moment I'm like
there's no way I'm going to putmy head underwater.
But when I do put my headunderwater, hold my breath for a
little bit, come back up.
It's.
It's like a second shock to thebody.
It's like a whole, a whole.
Nother cold exposure as far asthose mental benefits go.
But if you're starting out andyou're you don't want to do that

(30:44):
, don't do it.
Leave your head above water,get some, get some experience
underneath your belt and then,and then at least try it a
couple times.

Brent Harding (30:51):
Let's see if your captain tells you to.

Tyler Scriver (30:52):
Yeah, no, especially if he does.

Neal Gibbons (30:55):
Yeah, I do think there there's a lot to it.
Just with the extra thermalreceptors that you have in your
head, your hands and your feet,I would always suggest getting
full, full body immersion andwhen and like you said, getting
booties or gloves or evenkeeping your hands above the
water.
As long as you get in and getthat initial response there's,
there is nothing wrong withgetting your hands, fingers,

(31:16):
putting them up on the sides oror getting them out of that
water, cause we've talked to alot of people that have done it,
that they do.
They have just like deep bonepain, that neuropathy or, and
they that that kind of steers alot of people away from wanting
to do it again, and it's youdon't have to get them in there
and keep them in there, and it'sjust like the face I I like to
do the same thing get thatsecondary shock, and I've I've

(31:37):
tried to see how long I can holdmy breath under the water and
you come back up, and usuallywhen I pop back up, I want to
get out now, and so it's beenanother difficult thing for me
to tell myself, no, let's stayin for another minute, and then
at the end of that minute I'mgoing to dunk my head again.
That was awesome, cause by thattime, with your head being the
only thing above water, it'swarming back up pretty quick.

(32:00):
But that's that's somethingthat I'd always suggest is
getting that, that headimmersion Cause just that
benefits from that secondaryshock, like you talked about,
tyler, and then those extrathermal receptors being able to
do that.
And even if you're doing coldshowers, that starting out with
cold shower get it uncomfortablycold to where you can stand it,
and I usually do 15 seconds onmy chest, 15 seconds on my arm,

(32:21):
15 seconds on my back and thenmy other arm, and then I slowly
put my head under and to thisday I still get that initial
shock just taking your breathaway.
But then seeing how long I cankeep my face in that cold water
is it almost becomes like achallenge or it becomes like a
another thing, another hurdle toto get past and another mental
hurdle.
But there there's huge benefitsfrom that.

(32:43):
So a lot of people out therethat don't want to get into the
cold bath just start out withthe shower, just try turning as
cold as you can get it, as coldas you can stand it and
understand like your body isgoing to the temperature,
regulate itself and then get towhere you're able to stand, that
and it doesn't feel as coldafter about 15, 30 seconds, and
especially once you start, likeon your chest, if you do the

(33:04):
full twirl.
Once you come back to yourchest, that water does not feel
that cold anymore and it's justlike that experiment back in the
day when you hold a cup of icewater and a cup of hot water and
you want each hand and then youhold the same cup of the same
temperature in the middle andthey both feel different.
Both hands feel different.
Your body will acclimate towhatever temperature you've got
it on, but being able to to dothat and start out just with the

(33:26):
shower and work up to the thecold plunge is, is its huge
benefits.

Brent Harding (33:30):
Does that come back to the time and the
temperature, to where it shouldnever feel super comfortable?
Right, and if it does, that'sprobably a sign you should be
doing it colder or longer oranything like that.

Neal Gibbons (33:43):
Yeah, and it's.
It's that initial shock thatyou're looking for.
If you're getting to the pointwhere you don't get that shock,
you're you know you should belooking for getting that, just
pushing it a little bit further.
Because even like as as used toit as I am, like when I get in
the cold bath, the ice bath, itis cold and I get that shock,
and I still do get that shockfrom when I jump into the or

(34:05):
when I get in the shower andturn it cold, and that's for me
it hasn't ever gone away, andthat's.
I've been doing it for quite awhile, not nearly as long as Wim
Hof, but I'd be curious to havea conversation with him and say
how much of a shock is it stillfor you?
Which, knowing the science andunderstanding that now, that
initial shock on your skin, thatis what gives you that thermal
regulation response.

Tyler Scriver (34:26):
Yeah, that cold shock.
Man.
I brought my kids up to 120 todo a cold bath.
My two girls and they were deadset, we're gonna do this, we're
gonna get in there, and theyhad done one previously at 71.
So I get up there and I'mthrowing ice into this, into the
trough, and it's 40 degrees inthere.
Oh man, that's cold and I'mtrying to act all cool, yeah,

(34:48):
it's fine, it's nothing, keepthrowing some ice in there.
My oldest.
She decides, okay, now I'mgetting in, this is when I get
in.
So she gets in there and shejumps in and she stops about the
water levels, about chest high,and she's man, nope, she's
making silly excuses like Idon't wanna get water on my
shoulders and stuff like that.
And I'm just being superencouraging Parley, you can do
this, just go all the way and upto your neck, just make it

(35:10):
happen a little bit.
She goes in there, she goes upto her neck, she instantly comes
back up.
But then I watch and she slowlysinks back in there and where
she was, like I don't wanna getmy shoulders in the water, she's
almost up to her neck and shewas there for about three
minutes.
Then my mental child her bestwas to get in there.
She went 100% all but drownedherself in the thing as she

(35:33):
stood back up and she got out.
And then it was my turn and I'mlike I got this and I stood
there for half a second.
I don't wanna do this, but Iknew in my executive brain I'm
in control, I'm the boss.
This little primitive braininside my head that's no, you
can't do this.
Why would you?
You're gonna die.
Nope, sorry, buddy, I'm gonnathink my way through this.
And I jumped in and I was ableto keep the respect of my

(35:56):
children as a man and a father,because I didn't, I didn't went
out.
But it's always there, thatshock that once I get up to that
that lip, whether it be theplunge tub, whether it be the
recycling bin, I don't wanna doit.
But I can tell myself that I'min control.
That this survival brain, sure,it's important, but I can

(36:18):
override it with just clear,direct thought, controlling my
breathing, get into that waterand reap those benefits and
still have that.
Oh my gosh, this is so cold.
What am I doing?
Telling myself I'm safe, take acouple breaths.
Yeah, it's usually about thefive or six minute mark.
I start shaking uncontrollablyand then my wife makes fun of me
.
But like I'm just agitating thewater, I don't have to do the

(36:39):
chicken wing thing.
It's there every time.

Brent Harding (36:41):
So tell us a little bit about that with the
okay.
So three questions.
One wanna talk about agitatingthe water, why that's helpful,
and is there a temperaturethat's too cold?
We got ours down to 32.6 and Istarted thinking there's
probably a line where we'reabout to cross that we shouldn't
get in.
It's detrimental.
And is there a temperaturethat's too cold that you
definitely should not do?

(37:01):
And then back to the time limit.
Is there a minimum?
I think I've heard threeminutes before is like a minimum
amount of time you should spendin there to just start getting
benefits.
So if you do it less than that,you're really not accomplishing
or hitting that threshold of Idon't know.
Does that make any sense?

Tyler Scriver (37:17):
Yes, sir.

Neal Gibbons (37:18):
And the minute, the time threshold, that and I
would advise anybody that wantsto know the science behind it
and understand that better waybetter than either one of us
could explain it that thatHuberman Labs podcast with Dr
Soberg it's super, great, superexplains everything really well.
But doing that, the three tofive minute is that mark where

(37:39):
you're gonna be getting themaximum benefits.
But in in her book she talksthe winter swimming.
Dr Soberg talks about just thatinitial shock is what is the
most important part of it.
And getting that initial shock,even if you just get in and hop
right back out like your middlechild doing going pedal to the
metal, jump in and jump rightback out she's still gonna be

(38:00):
getting a lot of benefits fromthat.
But to maximize the benefits,that three to five minute window
is really where you wanna betime wise.
But that's.
You've seen guys that hop inafter.
Have you lived your first time?

Brent Harding (38:11):
you hopped in.
You're in there for 50 seconds.
I was hoping that wouldn't bebrought up, but it's fine.

Neal Gibbons (38:14):
It's fine I can take it that initial 50 seconds,
you and to your credit, brandonyou're like that is bull crap,
I'm not gonna accept that.
You jump back in and you'relike nope.
Then that third time you'relike I am going to three minutes
.
Once you get in, it's amazing.
You watch anybody their firsttime.
That first minute and a half ortwo minutes they are still in
that sympathetic nervous systemresponse fight or flight.

(38:36):
You can see it in their eyes,you see it in their face.
They're just like I have got toget out of here now.
Once you hit that, for me it'sabout a minute and a half.
After that minute and a half,for me it's just.
This is pleasant, prettycomfortable in here.
Start doing the chicken wing orstart shivering and start
moving that water around to keepthat cold water on.
You.
Keep that shock happening.
That's super important.

(38:59):
You look at the collegiateathletes and they've been doing
this way before any of us everthought that we had discovered
this new fancy thing.
My dang wife, we don't wannatalk about her.
But after a game or sometimes inthe half times, they will jump
into that ice bath and that ishuge for their recovery.
But a lot of those have aswirling.
They have just a whirlpoolagitator that keeps that water

(39:22):
moving so that it doesn't sitand you don't build that warm
water barrier around your body.
But keeping that agitation,keeping that water moving, is
super important.

Tyler Scriver (39:32):
Yeah, we had a guy that he made the comment man
, this gotta be so much worsefor you because you shave your
body.
And I was like I don't know,I've always just done it.
So he decided he was gonnashave his body and he jumped in
and he said it was the worstthing ever, because that thermal
barrier that your body createsright, your hair stand up on
hair yeah, get rid of it, try itout.
That your hair stands up and itcreates that thermal layer.

(39:54):
And he said it was night andday difference Time.
Yeah.
So I mean, if you want most ofthe benefits, three minutes,
right.
If you wanna try and get themost physiologically out of that
, awesome.
But I equate it to it's justlike working out.
If you get on a treadmill andthe most you can do is 15
minutes, that's 15 minutes morethan you did versus sitting on

(40:18):
the couch.
If you get in there and youdunk your whole body in and you
get out, you never would havedone that, right, you at least
were in there for five, 10seconds longer than if you would
have just talked yourself outof it.
Can it be too cold?
Yeah, so the things you startto worry about at, like those
freezing temperatures, and forthe most part the exposure is
again.

(40:38):
It's a controlled, relativelysafe environment, but if you're
going longer periods of timeswe'll look out for hypothermia.
I don't know if somebody couldget frostbite from it, but
before we retired the recyclingbin we decided how cold can we
get this thing?
And there was probably a footand a half of snow and ice on

(40:59):
the top layer of the sink.
So I jumped in there and I'ddone it a couple of times.
I'm straight up to my neck andI can feel it on my back, and
not so much the cold water, butI could feel it's just like when
it snows outside and it's beenout there for a while.
You try to run through it andit's crusty and I can scrape
your foot up and stuff like that.
I can feel that on my back alittle bit.

(41:20):
So as we're going, I'm trying toagitate, I'm trying to move, I
get out and it looked like I hadscratches all over my back.
It was superficial, nothing toocrazy, nothing too horrible
right there, but something tothink about.
You have ice sitting directlyon your skin.
Your chances for gettingfrostbite at that point is
probably a little bit more rightIf you're gonna go in there for

(41:42):
15 minutes.
Maybe you might have some stuff.
You might have some issues withthat right there, but is there
any issues with 15 minutes 35degrees?
Yep, there is Yep but yeah,those would be things that kids.
Kids can do ice baths, but theylose body heat faster, they
just they don't need to be in aslong.
Look for signs for hypothermia.
That kind of stuff, man, itusually takes a bit.

(42:03):
There's.
Actually, I was trying to finda chart that says this is how
long you should be in ice bathif it's this temperature.
There weren't very many ofthose charts, but I'll tell you
what.
There were a lot of chartsthere.
This is the temperature, thisis when you start losing
dexterity, this is when you die,and so if you're worried, you
can just Google search ice bathgraphs and there's tons like
military has has researched thisfor diving and all sorts of

(42:27):
stuff there is.
There is too much, but ifyou're doing that 11 minutes a
week, maybe even more right, butyou're keeping those exposures
to like a five, three to fiveminutes, I think you're fairly
safe.

Brent Harding (42:38):
Keep the ego out of it, right?
I think if you're going likethese crazy temperatures, crazy
lanes, it has less to do withtrying to get benefit.
It's more about provingsomething or whatever, right?

Tyler Scriver (42:48):
Yeah.

Brent Harding (42:48):
What about breathing during the whole thing
?
Because, wim Hof, like you canhyperventilate before you get in
, then breathing during, likehow does that?
Is there any do's or don'tswith breathing?
You guys have found helpful.

Neal Gibbons (43:00):
Yeah, and for one of the biggest benefits the Wim
Hof breathing is justcontrolling your breathing.
He talks about taking thosedeep breaths in filling up all
your abbyoli, getting themaximum expansion, and just
doing a couple, a couple superdeep breaths.
You can feel like, for me, Ican feel all that oxygen, all
that blood flowing outthroughout my whole body and

(43:22):
most people you don't look forthat feeling, but if you do take
a couple of super deep breathsyou can feel it.
You've got that rush of allthat blood flow and so getting
in there, there's a couplethings with that blood flow or
with that Wim Hof breathing, youget in this super deep breath
through in through your nose andthen a long, extended breath
out through your mouth.
That is where, like it's doinga couple things, you're helping

(43:45):
out your executive or primitivebrain, because you're thinking
about controlling your breathing, which we all know.
The box breathing is a supergood way to get out of that
primitive brain and for a quickexplanation, box breathing is
just four seconds inhale, foursecond pause.
Four second out, exhale, foursecond pause, and that it
creates a box which is breathing.
But doing that a couple oftimes helps you get out of that

(44:08):
primitive brain and for being inthe bath, like especially with
my kids.
All three of my kids have beenin the ice bath and every time I
try to coach them say, hey, youneed a big, deep breath in
through your nose and thenslowly exhale through your mouth
.
And for them, once they canstart thinking about that and
engaging that executive brain,you can see the.
You can see the response ontheir faces when they're

(44:31):
physiologically like, they startto calm down, they start to
control their breathing, theystart to have gain control of
their body and be able to say,yes, I can do this.
This is a hard thing but I amsafe, I am capable of doing this
.
So controlling that breathing, Ithink, is super important.
And there's there's the otherend of the spectrum, like you
can't hyperventilate in there.
And there's been times, likewhen we got it down to 32.4

(44:55):
degree or whatever it was theother day, like I got in there
and there was probably six andeight inches of ice on the top
layer of there and when I got inthere I started breathing.
I thought I was controlling mybreathing but pretty soon my ear
lobes and like the back of myface was starting to feel numb,
then my pretty soon I'm doingthe whoo with my lips, doing
like closing them off and likehey, I'm breathing a little too

(45:17):
fast, trying to control mybreathing and so being able to
notice those things is superimportant to say I have to slow
it down or get get control of mybreathing.
But I do think that thepre-oxygenation or the deep
breathing beforehand I think anygood deep breathing is always
beneficial and Wim Hof's alwaysgonna suggest controlling that

(45:40):
breathing.
A forceful push out or forcefulexhale after good deep inhale
is always a good idea, butthat's from what I've seen.
It really does help, it's.
It's a good way to get controlof yourself and keep that
control yeah, I love that, Ilove it.

Tyler Scriver (45:58):
Definitely don't hyperventilate if you're doing
open water, right.
So if I hyperventilate and thenI go in that cold water, you
could pass out, you could drown,things like that.
Practice messing with yourbreathing.
I bring you ask me the otherday hey, do you hyperventilate
before I get?
Go in there, and I just get inthere and then when the first
couple minutes, the first thingI try to do is think, okay, calm

(46:19):
my, focus my breathing, figurethat out.
I watched your the Wim Hofdocumentary and that's that's
the breathing that I try to doalong a good, forceful feel my
whole lung, both my lungs, withoxygen and then breathe out.
And I've noticed that if Ifocus my breathing, I start
shivering way later than if Ijust we're talking and I'm and

(46:42):
I'm distracted.
Then I'll start shivering rightoff the bat.
If I breathe, I focus on that,I can go longer without
shivering.
The first time my oldest gottenthe the ice bath, I got a video
of her.
And again, my stupid wife,she's got to be a hero and
everything she's done ice bathfor years, being a collegiate
athlete.
But my oldest she gets in thewater and you can see the panic

(47:04):
in her eyes and she looks at meand I can, I can read her brain.
She said, nope, you're not anyhelp.
And then she looks over and shelooks at Aaron and they make
eye contact and Aaron's take adeep breath, par breathe, and
you see her and she takes a deepbreath in through her nose, she
breathes out and then all thesudden, that brain, that
executive brain, takes over andyou can see it, just a switch,

(47:25):
just through focusing on yourbreathing.
And that's what?
That's again exactly how shewas coaching her long, deep
breath, inhale and let it out.

Brent Harding (47:32):
And that's that's now how I try to do it, because
of Wim Hof, not because of mywife and I think for me that's
the hardest part to get controlof, because I tell myself I'm
gonna do it, but it seems likethat first minute and a half
like I'm trying to control it,but it's more, it's just like a
panic.
But I think that's a good likefor me.
That's a new way to look at itand a new goal is my first

(47:52):
objective when I get in thiswater is to take control back of
my breathing, because my body'sgonna have its response and the
faster I can and that's justsomething to practice so that,
yeah, if I can do that andinstead of it taking a minute
half for me to gain that controlback, I can get it at the point
where I can do it faster andfaster, then I think that's a
helpful physiological thing toget control of.

(48:13):
Just as we wrap up here, I wantto end on and you know this
whole thing could be a wholeanother podcast in itself and
maybe it will be but I just wantto talk for a minute and if
everybody maybe shares one ortwo insights on on this part of
just why it's important to dothings you don't want to do and
why is that helpful forresiliency, for just overall

(48:37):
kind of building character andand just being a good person and
and and ultimately being a goodfirefighter.
Why is that an important mess,mental aspect to practice and to
kind of master.
And then we'll wrap up and gofrom there.
Like I said, I know that couldbe a whole podcast in of itself,
but for me, with the firstexperience of doing it, that's
what bothered me the most is 45seconds and as I didn't want to

(48:59):
do that and I gave in, I got outand that bugged me and to the
point where I just didn't wantto let that be how that
experience ended.
And but I think there'ssomething to being able to just
tell yourself I definitely don'twant to do this, but I'm gonna
do it anyway because it has tobe done.
And certainly in firefighting,there's the dramatic moments of

(49:19):
fire and rescue and where no onewants to go in this
claustrophobic, smoky, hot spaceright, but it's a job that has
to be done.
There's also those moments atthree in the morning when the
frequent fire falls out of bedand we also don't want to do
that, but it needs to be done,right.
And how has I don't know how isthat impacted you threw ice

(49:42):
baths and building that, doingwhat you don't want to do,
mental toughness, and how has itbenefited you from your life?
I know Neil grew up on a farmand just with building that
initial is right out of the gateas a kid how has that kind of
impacted your life and and madeyou who you are today?

Neal Gibbons (49:58):
Yeah, I think that being able to do hard things is
something you mentioned thefarm Two in the morning.
The cows are out.
We got to get up and go getthem back in, get them rounded
up and get them back in theirpen.
Getting up at 3.30 in themorning and going out to milk
cows or feed cows in the middleof the winter.
I remember in high school itwas like negative 38, 39 one
morning and that was miserable.

(50:18):
But the cows never took aholiday.
Same thing in emergencyresponse 9-1 does never take a
holiday.
We're there 24 hours a daygetting up and saying, yeah, the
public has an expectation forus to perform.
When it doesn't matter fordoing a lift, assist, helping
grandma get back into bed or fordoing a surgical cryotherapy,

(50:38):
we have an expectation toperform and whether we're ready
or not, the public needs us.
And I think for me, being ableto get past that mental block of
yes, I can do something hard asan adult, one of the hardest
things for me.
At times like I come home fromwork or I get home from doing a
long day of tree work, I'm deadtired.

(50:59):
And then my second boy, john,he's got, let's go play King
Goalie out on the front lawn.
I am so tired that is the lastthing that I want to do, but I
am not going to miss out on achance to go out and kick the
ball around and potentially gethit in the in the bad spot, as
he likes to say it and do that,which that's another story.
But anyway, being able to goout and do those things and my

(51:21):
brother Jason, he said at theother day he's like being the
yes man for your kids, like theyask you to do something every
time, it should be a yes.
Every time they ask you to goplay Barbies with Maggie or go
whatever it is, every answer forthose kids should be yes,
absolutely, let's go do it, nomatter how tired, no matter how
bad you don't want to do it.

(51:42):
Being there for your kids ishuge, and so I think that aspect
of doing something hard hasreally helped me to have that
realization.
That.
But doesn't matter how hardsomething's going to be, whether
it's a Spartan race or whetherI'm combing out a tanglin
Barbies hair, like those things,those things they're, they're
going to happen, or whetherthey'll happen or they won't,

(52:03):
the fact is I want to choose tobe there for those opportunities
.
I want those opportunities toto continue to come.
I don't want my kids to saythat's not going to do this
because he's tired, he's notgoing to want to do this because
he's tired or whatever else.
And then the same goes forbeing there with the crew.
Ryan is always hey, let's go tothe stairs, what time you guys
want to go, and I'm usuallydragging my feet and usually the

(52:25):
rest of crew is pretty on top.
We're like, yeah, let's go.
But every time like he saysthat I do not want to be the guy
that says I'm too tired, Idon't want to go do it, I'm too
sore, I don't want to go do it.
But being there for your crew,being a part of them and then
just being able to be the yesman for all those, those little,
the little things, littlethings count for your kids, for

(52:46):
your crew, for all of it, andeven going that extra mile.
We're in a scene he talks about.
That's all about mrs smithchecking to make sure that the
dog wasn't let out, or checkingto make sure that the the doors
locked behind so-and-so thenursing home, to make sure none
of their stuff is is taken, orgoing away and make sure they
have their phone.
Those little things that wedon't necessarily have to do

(53:06):
them, but going that extra mileand doing them is going to
change us into being that superdad, into being that super
firefighter, to being that superexample to all those people
around us.
To just be there and be thatguy that people say I need
something done.
I need somebody to come dig upmy front yard.
Gonna do it because he's easilytaking advantage of no, because

(53:28):
he's.
He's gonna do it, he's the man.

Tyler Scriver (53:30):
Yeah, yeah, from first hand experience I know
Cole is the man.
He will come dig up your frontyard yeah, that's awesome.
I knew I should have went firstbecause, no matter what I say
after, this is going to seemdumb compared to yours.
Whatever, a couple things forme is one I've always hated
hearing like oh well, whenyou're after, after 30, you're
gonna start to lose one percentof this in your muscle mass and.
I saw a thing the other day.

(53:51):
Speaking of Luke, he remindedme that I should probably review
the facts on it.
There's a thing that's likemost people after 30 they're not
gonna sprint, they're not gonnapurposely expose themselves to
cold water, they're not gonna dohard things.
And I'm like 30, I'm 35.
That's dumb.
I want to be able to do thatstuff way later in life.
I I was told myself, I want tobe that strong grandpa and I

(54:14):
want my, I want my grandchildrento be like oh, grandpa's grave,
he's got it, he'll come takecare of this.
I don't want to be some feeblesits on a couch kind of a thing.
I've tested my body.
This is just another way totest my body.
This is just another way toimprove that mental fortitude.
Right coming back from that,that transfer of primary
children's.
I don't want to do this.
It's gonna be cold.

(54:35):
You hate being cold.
Yeah, I hate being cold becauseit's miserable and it's the
worst.
Shut up, you're gonna get inthere, you're gonna back into
the bay, you're gonna take yourclothes off, you're gonna jump
in that dang thing and you'regonna stay in there and you're
gonna do it.
Okay, yes, sir, yes sir, mrexecutive brain, sir, I'm gonna
do that.
I think that is reallyimportant to to developing our

(54:57):
brains and keeping our brainalive.
We we have this habit as humanbeings to find comfort, and once
we get to that point where wewe're comfortable in our lives.
Then when things get reallyuncomfortable, they're really
uncomfortable and I don't wantthat to be the case.
I always want to be in a growthsituation, whether it be going

(55:17):
to bomb school and right afterparamedic school or right after
critical care school or whatever.
Like I, I want to prove tomyself that I can do these
things, and it's and it startswith getting in cold water.
If I can tell myself look,you're smart enough to pass this
anatomy physiology quiz,awesome.
The worst thing I'll probablydo today is get into a cold bath

(55:37):
.
Oh, but I love that.
Now it hurts and it sucks and Iinitially don't want to do it,
but I'm gonna do it.
And then I feel like thattransfers over into what Neil
was saying.
It might be one o'clock atnight and the tones go off and
you're ready to save someone'slife or to do something cool.
You're just taking somebodyback to a nursing home.
That person, who I?

(55:58):
I'm the patient person.
They don't care what I signedup for.
They don't care if I haven'tbeen on a structure fire.
What they need for me is theyneed me to be a human and to get
them back to where they feelcomfortable or they need to be
safe and they need to do thosethings.
And if I can tell myself, getsome cold water, it's going to

(56:19):
be painful, then I can tellmyself I can be a human to this
person, regardless of thesituation.
If it's grandma she fell down,we got to pick her up.
If, whatever the situation is,that positive mindset of I can
do this, I'm safe, I'm strong,like more than just physically
strong, I'm mentally strong.
I'm going to test myself everysingle time, every single day.

(56:40):
I'm going to do something hardand you know what I'm going to
do.
I'm going to pass that test andif I don't pass it the first
day, or if I don't pass it thefirst time, I only spend 45
seconds in that water.
I'm going to beat myself upuntil I get in there for that
two, three minutes and and Ipass that test.
And the crazy thing about coldwaters I don't think it gets any
easier.
I mean it gets.
I definitely start to noticethings like you're talking about

(57:00):
taking a deep breath andfilling your, filling your blood
go throughout your, yourfingers and your toes.
I know that sensation.
I didn't know what it was, butas you explain it, man.
I'm excited to get in thereagain and to really focus on
that catch my breath, tell mybreath, I'm the boss and I'm
going to do this and then noticethose little, tiny, small
things and and I know that thatmental fortitude will transfer

(57:23):
over to doing things that Ididn't sign up to do but that
person, who, who needs my help,they don't care.
They don't care what I signedup for, but I'm there, I'm there
to do it.
I'm there, I'm going to bepleasant and I'm going to give
them the best care that Ipossibly can and I think you
both hit on this really well.

Brent Harding (57:40):
But you're essentially building up these
bank of experiences that you candraw on so in that crappy
moment comes up later, you cansay at least it's not a 32
degree ice bath, yeah, I've donethat, been there, done that,
and so this isn't that bad, orthis isn't picking up rocks in
the field like this.
Work really isn't that hardbecause you have this bank of
experiences that were harder,that you lived and you survived

(58:02):
through.
And I think for me and and theice bath the first time, after
hitting that kind of two minutemark and I knew you hit that
zone.
Then after that, the next onewasn't nearly as hard because my
body and my mind knew that thatwas coming that very first time
.
You don't know and you justfeel like that's never gonna
come.
But I feel like as a, as afirefighter, we're always trying

(58:23):
to bring control to chaos,right, like that's that's a job
description and being able to dothat within ourselves, just
like you guys said, the chaos ofof home life and being able to
let some of these thingstranslate over into doing hard
things.
But I think, building up thatresiliency and telling yourself
and if I feel like, if we canlook at some of those aspects

(58:45):
with relationships the same waywe approach an ice bath,
wouldn't it be great if andspeaking hopefully to my future
self wouldn't be great if, 45seconds after I told my kid, no,
I'm too tired to go do thatwith you, I changed my mind and
went back out.
Hey, you know what?
That was dumb.
I do want to be out here and Iwant to do this with you rather
than let that decision, but fornow, that only applies to ice

(59:07):
baths for me.
But that's something.
One of those things I want towork on and get better at is is
that, even if initially maybeyou're not living life the way
you want or whatever, it onlytakes that one, one decision to
turn that around and try againyes, man progress not perfection
.
There we go.
I know that there's an effortto try to get ice baths in every
station.
Hopefully that's going tohappen soon, but certainly come

(59:28):
up to 120.
We're getting.
We're gonna keep on keeping onget making that better and
better.
If anybody needs that, pleasereach out.
Of course, these are theexperts here, so they're happy
to help peer-pressuring intodoing it.
And yeah, we'll catch you onthe next one.
Thanks, guys thank you.