From Probie to Pro: Don't Stop Being a "New Guy"

Episode Transcript
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BRENT HARDING (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of our
Firefighter Support podcast.
We're here with some companions, a captain and a probie
recently graduated probie not aprobie anymore, but here with
Captain Brian Davies, who's alsoruns the RCA and in charge of
the fire training program atBridgerland Applied Technology,
bridgerland Technical College.

(00:21):
Bridgerland Technical Collegeit's changed, sorry and Jordan
Woolley, who went through theprogram and then did you work
part-time?
I did so then went part-timewith Logan Fire and then
full-time and is now the epitomeof what everybody helps to be
at Logan Fire.
So, Jordan, let's start withyou a little bit and then we'll
move to Brian.
Just before we get into ourtopic of discussing being on

(00:43):
probation, what that's like justtell us a little bit about you,
what made you want to be afirefighter, and then kind of
walk us through your experiencewith the RCA and we'll kind of
go from there.

Jordan Woolley (00:50):
Okay, I guess a little bit about me.
I grew up in Arizona, moved toUtah in the middle of high
school, finished high schooldown in Riverton, went on a
mission down to Chile, came backand had no idea what I wanted
to do.
So I did what every good boydoes and went to college and got
a degree in something I didn'treally care about and it was
right there at the end.
I was finishing my lastsemester of college and I was
like man.

(01:11):
I gotta figure this out, I don'tknow what's going on.
And so I started YouTube andlike day in the life of a
firefighter because I mean, likeI'd always thought about it.
I had a couple of peopletelling me like, oh, you should
look into it, but I never gavethem any notice.
And so I started looking up acouple of YouTube videos and I'm
like, yeah, this could be cool.
So I just jumped right into theEMT basic class because I was
it was starting soon, and so Idid that during my last semester

(01:32):
of college and way more than Ithought I would.
I was never really good atschool, never liked it, never
thought of myself as somebodysmart but really liked the
medical stuff Way more than Ithought.
And that kind of just ledstraight into the fire Academy
and straight into the advancedEMT.
And being here, especiallydoing that Academy here in Logan
, you meet a lot of people whowork local all throughout the
state.
And so I got lucky enough toget hired on part time pretty
quick after finishing thatAcademy and that's kind of what

(01:55):
got me here.

Yeah, it's awesome.
So no, no firefighters in yourfamily, or no like no, no, no
kind of leading up to it is justkind of you're the pioneer.

Yeah, it's just me.

Nobody really knew much about it, so.
So how has it lived up to yourexpectations based off of your
YouTube experience?

Well, it's been pretty good.
I have no complaints.
I mean, honestly, I've worked alot of different jobs, did a
lot of construction, growing up,a lot of things that I swore I
would never do again, and I lovethis job, like it's the best
thing that's ever happened to me, the best thing I've ever done,
like my wife will make fun ofme all the time because I'm
always like thinking about it.
I'm always talking about itLike I don't know if it's bad
that it consumes me a little bit, but I absolutely love it.

Oh, that's great and we can tell.
I think everybody that's workedwith you is.
I've never heard negativethings about Jordan.
We wait, except for yourcaptain behind your back.

Bryan Davies (02:42):
But other than that I've got lots there, I'm
sure.

Well, that's awesome.
We're going to circle back onthe RCA stuff and kind of talk
about what it's like to gothrough that.
But Captain Davies, give us alittle background on you.
Where did all this start foryou and how'd you get into fire
in general and then kind of walkus through your resume and
career.

Well, supposedly it dates back to when I was two.
During a family reunion I wasinterviewed and I said when I
grew up I wanted to be a fireengine.
So didn't quite become that.
But honestly I don't knowexactly.
I don't have anybody in thefamily that did it.
But I knew from an early agethat's what I wanted to do.
I had a person in church whowas a captain and he didn't do a

(03:20):
whole lot with us, but therewas enough there.
I think that kind of sparked myinterest in it and then,
literally in high school,started doing some stuff with
the local fire department.

When I local here in Logan, no, in California.

And when I was 18, I had secured a job.
But when I graduated highschool, doing a wildland fires,
and so literally the day after Igraduated high school I packed
up my car, drove to Utah andstarted doing wildland the next
day.
I did four years of that andgot my degree during that time
and once I finished I was kindof before online schooling.
So I did my degree first andthen.

(03:53):
Once I finished that, then Istarted applying and took a job
with Logan over around 26 yearsago that's awesome yeah.

And where did Bridgerland fall into all that?
And when did you kind of takeover that program?

I kind of stumbled into that.
It's kind of a bit of a story.
I think Jordan and I were justtalking about this recently, but
I've been involved withBridgerland for probably since
around your time, your 2000,initially just helping out with
the EMT classes, and when theystarted a fire program I kind of
just dumb luck it fell into mylap and luckily I didn't have to

(04:25):
interview against other peopleand stuff like that, or else I
probably wouldn't have the job.

So tell us, give us a little intro to the program
and kind of how it's evolved,and then certainly what it looks
like today for anybody that'slistening that's been
considering this as a career andusing that as their first step
into figuring out if this is forthem.

Yeah, it went from pretty casual and also having
in the exact same classvolunteers and people that
wanted to do it as a career.
There were issues and differentstrengths and weaknesses from
combining both those groups andeventually led us to separate
them and eventually the countytook back their volunteer stuff

(05:03):
and we continued with our careerpathway, and which is actually
really good, because even thoughthey do the same job, when
you're preparing to do it as acareer, there's different things
that you want to emphasize, andso I think it's really allowed
us to kind of dial down, drilldown into putting out a better

(05:24):
product and in the end, I mean,that's what the crews, that's
what the chiefs, that's whatpeople want is a good
firefighter.

Yeah.
So what can somebody expectgoing through today?
Because it's not just theskills and tactics, but part of
it's the culture too.
Right, like preparing somebodyto enter a fire department and
have a good probationary year.

Yeah, I kind of laugh because a lot of the
things that they're evaluated on, and even just kind of things
that are stressed, are notactual state skills.
Getting somebody to tie a knotin a certain amount of time is
easy.
However, getting them to learnhow to deal with stress, to deal
with failure, to deal with allsorts of different things like

(06:08):
that's nowhere in the stateskills.
But that is what we do.
We spend time doing thatbecause they're not going to get
the skill right.
All the time they're not goingto be successful, all the time
they're going to get frustratedat their partner.
They're going to all thesedifferent little things and it's
learning how to handle that.
It's learning how to be apublic representative.
It's learning all thesedifferent things.

(06:30):
An example of that is a coupleof classes ago.
I was walking down the hallwayin Bridgerland and the
firefighters were on the otherside and it was before class
started, just a little bitbefore I could just hear them
dropping the F bomb and allsorts of stuff.
I just kind of looked aroundthe corner and they were in
uniform and everything like that.

(06:50):
It's not acceptable.
Once you throw on the shirt,once you put on the uniform,
it's like you're arepresentative that class.
From that time on, Iimplemented a few things and
they would pay physically forany infractions of cussing when
they had their uniform on.
Again, nowhere is that a stateskill, but that's what the

(07:13):
administrators want is peoplewho are good people and
represent the city, representthe department, stuff like that.

Yeah, I think that's fantastic because when
we're wearing the Logan Cityshirt and you're out shopping,
getting groceries, you're beingseen by so many people that you
probably don't even know, butyou're being watched.
So any little thing that getsback to the chief is one more
stressor on his plate, even ifit's really not that big of a
deal to him personally.
The fact that he now has todeal with this being reported is

(07:40):
not good, so I think that'sawesome to start that mindset
early.
So when I went through, I thinkI was one of the last county
combined classes I went throughin 2007.
Man, it feels like a long timeago, but man it was so much fun,
like for me, starting the EMTclass.
That's where I usually thoughtgetting into some of the medical

(08:02):
.
But after doing the EMT is likeI love the emergency side and
so that pushed me into the fire.
And then, of course, once youdo fire, it's like there's no
turning back.
That's the hook.
What One more question for you,brian.
Then I want to hear from Jordanon his RCA experience.
But what type of person usuallydoes well in through the
academy?
Like, are they prettyself-driven?

(08:23):
Are they come into the classday one already kind of a stand
up person in society?
Or like, if you had to describea good candidate to enter the
academy, what does that personlook like?

Well, the having how do I explain this?
The effort that they put induring the academy is just.
There's so much that goes onbehind the scenes there that
they have to do on their owntime.
They're going to learn theirown what they struggle with.
So whether it's studying thetextbook, whether it's
memorizing bulleted items,whatever it is, they're going to
come up against their strugglesand so it's them kind of

(09:00):
learning how to figure out, howto make those weaknesses into
strengths.
We can teach the skills to justabout anybody, but we can't
teach them how to pass thewritten test and things like
that.
They have to put forth theeffort.
So somebody that comes in whohas a good drive, is interested
in, and really a lot of thatcomes from.

(09:21):
If you have the passion, theinterest, the love, I think some
of it becomes pretty easy.
Easier.
But the coming in and justbeing ready to learn and knowing
that you're going to fail and,as you fail, listening to where
you failed and then wanting tolike, give me another shot, like
I want to go do it right.

(09:41):
We have this just the other day, when we were doing search and
rescue stuff, we came out of it.
Chief Laquois had some input tome as far as how I could have
done my job better and it's justlike I want to go again.
I want to give me another shotto do better.
And so having that drive towant to do well, to succeed, to

(10:03):
not let your crew down, stufflike that, not be the weak link
those are all going to behelpful.
But honestly, at the beginning,lots of listening and not a
whole lot of dialogue kind ofback and forth Now it's not to
say that you can't talk, butit's when you need to clarify
things absolutely.
But a lot of times it's justabsorbing and just trying to

(10:24):
mimic what you're seeing themwant you to do, or yeah anyways,
I think.

I think that's pretty valid and it sounds like
it's more about your ability tonavigate failure than it is.
If you fail, everybody's goingto fail.
It's a new, totally newlifestyle, new skill sets, like
there's going to be failure andthere's probably going to be a
lot of it, but how you navigatethat is going to determine
whether you're a good fit forthis or not.

Having a good attitude during that failure,
laughing at yourself, being likeyeah, screwed up or whatever,
you can't take it.
I mean you want to take itserious but at the same time,
having fun while you're working,I think is super valuable also.

Yeah, I was certainly enjoying it and it
seems like, too, that there's adifference between like.
You want to take it personally,but it's because you're trying
to contribute to the cause, notthat you are trying to look
better in front of the chief orthe training chief or the
instructors or whatever.
So there's those people thatare driven to like look good,
but if they're single in tryingto single themselves out, those

(11:23):
aren't a good fit either, right.
But if you're driven to pushforward the cause and the work,
then that's the type of I thinkthat adjusts the tone, probably
in how they talk and how theylisten.
Right, if you're listening foryourself versus listening how
you can be a better contributor,then that changes probably the
tone and everything else.
Have you ever had anybodythat's surprised you Like
somebody you saw come in, likeah, I don't think that guy or

(11:44):
girl is going to make it, andthen, man, they kind of blew
everybody's mind.

It happens all the time and I honestly I try not
to judge them.
A lot of times it's just beingtheir cheerleader and I'm not
super involved in the day-to-daystuff and haven't been for
years now.
Unfortunately it's moreadministrative.
But the but, when you visitwith the students and in fact
occasionally I have to go inthere and they're you just hear

(12:10):
the class is struggling, theclass is struggling stuff like
that, and so it's going in andultimately giving them just a
little bit of a pep talk.
But yeah, people will surpriseyou with their abilities and
what they can do.
And we had a person who in fourweeks needed to cut off over
five minutes on their mile and ahalf run or else they weren't

(12:31):
going to make it into theprogram and they they killed it
and they had other things, otherphysical things that were
holding them back and they justdestroyed it.
You have others who do poorlyand they continue to do poorly,
and so, but I am surprisedoftentimes with struggles that
people have and how they pullthrough it, and it's fun to see

(12:52):
people succeed and to do welland, like I said, in the end I'm
just I'm usually cheering themon.
I'm not picking winners andlosers, it's just like in the
end everybody has to rise up.
It's going to be hard, it'sgoing to be a struggle and and
it's trying to see those thatencounter those struggles and
then bust through them.

It's a great perspective, especially for
crews that are taking on apro-be firefighters Is.
There's those first impressionsand you have guys right out of
the gate.
They're making assumptions.
But, man, if you can just givethem the benefit of the doubt,
I'm just here to support thisguy as much as possible.
It doesn't mean you have to cuthim any slack or anything like
that, but, yeah, just be theircheerleader, and even if you
don't think they're going tomake it, you want to be on the

(13:33):
cheerleading side, not thecynical other side, jordan.
So now this is your chance tocorrect everything.
Captain Davies, tell us whatthe RCA is really like.

The RCA is awesome.
You'll probably get differentopinions from everybody.
I enjoyed it.
Yes, it's hard and it's long.
I remember like I met withCaptain Davies before I entered
the RCA and he kind of gives yousome expectations and things to
prepare for and I remember himsaying if you have a full-time
job, get ready, because that'shard.
A lot of people can't workfull-time and go to class and

(14:03):
you're trying to study andyou're physically exhausted and
I didn't have that option.
So I remember being like manhe's telling me it's going to be
hard if I work and everything,and it is hard.
It's just it's hard.
But going back to what you weretalking about earlier, with just
your attitude and yourperspective and kind of just
seeing that bigger picture, it'sabsolutely worth it.
I remember being so frustratedsometimes just because I'm like

(14:28):
why are they doing this?
It makes no sense to me.
I feel like I understand whatwe're doing, but why there's no,
why I haven't been doing thisthe job for very long.
But even just in this shortyear and a half I've looked back
and like, oh, I can totally seewhy You're getting it
frustrated sometimes withinstructors and how they're
treating you, or sometimes yourpartner, their recruits and you

(14:49):
just look at it now and it'slike, yeah, you're going to be
with these people for a third ofyour life.
You're going to be 48 hoursstraight and, yeah, sometimes
they're going to frustrate you,sometimes they're going to do
things and it all comes down tothat respect of respecting your
captain and your chief andlearning how to live with people
and having good communication.
And, at the end of the day, ifyou can work through those
things, you're going to be ableto learn and grow and become a

(15:10):
great firefighter.
And then going back to theacademy a little bit like it's
just a mix of everything.
You're going to be pushedphysically.
You're going to be pushed tocalm your brain down.
In some of those reallystressful situations when you
know you're not used to having amask on your face, you feel
like you can't breathe, you'rerestricted in everything and
your movements with your turnoutgear on, and you're going to
learn how to calm down in thosesituations.

(15:31):
You're going to learn how tostudy, how to change your
attitude and how to learn.
I think I learned how to learna lot better, yeah.

So during those moments where it's super hard
and you can't see the fullpicture of why, right, and that
didn't come till a year and ahalf later, well, advice would
you give to somebody that'smaybe in the academy right now
that's feeling that same way?
Like man, my instructors arejust jerks.
They're doing it on purpose,they, and they just have a hard
time kind of reconciling howthey're feeling with what it's

(15:59):
actually doing for their career.

For sure.
I think you're going to havethose moments.
First of all, no matter what,sometimes it's you get lost in
the weeds a little bit, but whatI would always do is go back,
like you may not have the fullpicture, but go back and try and
remember why you started.
What drove you.
For some people they wanted tojust fight fires.
Some people really want to helppeople.
Some people like thebrotherhood, that team aspect.

(16:21):
Everybody has a differentreason of what drives them.
Or why did you come into theacademy in the first place?
For me it was exciting.
I loved working outside with myhands.
I loved helping people.
I loved I always loved sports.
I loved working as a grouptrying to accomplish a task.
Like I had gone on a couple ofride-alongs.
I had the privilege of knowinghow to help people.
So I had a couple.
I could see kind of how itworked.
And if you just go back and youremember why you started, you

(16:45):
kind of had this whole newmotivation again of yeah, I want
that still, I want the end, andthere's going to be ups and
downs, but in the end you lookback and you'll see that full
picture again.

Yeah, I think that's great and I think that
goes for your whole career,right, and which is a good
little window to have that inthe academy, but certainly seems
like for your career as wellthat if you lose sight of your
why, night after night, of thoselate night calls, frequent
flyers, then you just start tolose and all of a sudden your
drive to quit becomes higherthan your drive to stay.

(17:16):
One thing, captain Davies, thatyou said a long time ago that
has always kind of stuck with meis because I think sometimes in
this job you see the less thanideal part of society and you
can.
One of those things you canlose sight of is that, like man,
people are good, like,generally, people are good right
, and once you kind of get thattainted view of society it can

(17:37):
be hard right.
But I remember one time youtold me, as you've deployed out
on like Katrina and some ofthese bigger disasters around
the country, that it alwayssurprised you, or just always
was a good reminder, how manypeople actually came to help
that man in those big moments.
Like you see the best ofsociety, not necessarily the
worst, and those were alwaysgood kind of little reminders

(17:59):
for you to keep that core valueof like humans are good and I
don't know, can you expand onthat a little bit and how that's
kind of played a rolethroughout your career and kind
of maintaining that core belief?

Well, I think I enjoy going out on those rare
deployments when I can, because,yeah, there's kind of two main
things you get to see or do.
One is very all of us are kindof like on the bench, like put
me in, coach, we want to go andwe want to do so.
When you get called up, it'slike sweet, put me in, I want to
participate.
But the second thing is thatwhen you go and you're there,

(18:31):
you realize how many thousandsand thousands of other, just
regular citizens are doing theexact same thing.
And they're not being paid,they're they're just doing it
out of the love for thatneighbor type of thing, total
strangers.
And I mean, I can remember helpcoordinating an area where our
rescuers were bringing peoplefrom boats into an area and

(18:53):
basically we had to take thesepeople who were being rescued
and trying to get them places.
They might live an hour acrosstown or whatever, and they don't
have communication, all sortsof issues and and just literally
lining up hundreds and hundredsof cars with people who are
just like I just want to helpand it's like will you help by

(19:16):
taking this person to whereverthey need to go?
And they're like, yeah, and it'slike so you see these teeny
little things where these peopleare just like raising their
hand and it's like if I can doanything, if I can bring you a
water, if I can go get you acookie, like whatever.
They just want to help out, andso that's always been super
rewarding for me.
I mean, we see all sorts ofugly in society and stuff like

(19:38):
that, but there is also a lot ofgood taking place to.
For example, we've had caraccidents over time where we've
been short handed and you kindof look out into the crowd
occasionally and it's like Ineed a couple hands and you pick
a couple people and thosepeople are like it doesn't
matter what's going on, theywill drop whatever's going on to

(20:00):
come and help with it.
And so, yeah, seeing the goodthat are inside of people is
awesome.

Yeah, it's amazing on some of those scenes
how quick people are to take offtheir belt, like that's like
seems like the first thing youcan use my belt for a tourniquet
.

We're okay, we're on tour.
Thanks, man.

But yeah, I think that's good and I don't know,
jordan, you can jump in on this.
I just feel like if you'regoing to start your career off
the best possible, like if youhave a set of core beliefs that
you just decide up front, I'mgoing to hold on to these, no
matter what.
And it doesn't mean they can'tevolve or because, of course,
with time and experience, someof those things may evolve a
little bit or deepen.

(20:36):
Right, and that's hopefully thegoal is, if you have this core
belief that I know people aregood and I'm just going to
believe that no matter what, andthen, after experience and
experience, you allow that todeepen, versus if every time
something bad happens you haveto read aside if you still
believe that, I think if you cancome into the career with a
couple of core beliefs and justhang on to those for everything,

(20:56):
with everything you've got, Ithink that just makes everything
a little bit easier.

Absolutely.
I think just having that strongwine, like you said, just
cement that into your brain and,yeah, it's going to change over
time.
It can change its form.
But, like, for me, I alwaysremember something that my mom
used to always say growing upand it was that she believes
that most people are doing thevery best they can.
And that's what I like to liveby and I believe it too.
I think most people, 99.9% ofpeople out there, are just

(21:23):
trying their best.
And, yeah, bad things happen togood people all the time.
And the other thing I rememberis, like, for some reason, the
three of us are here, we work inthis job.
I couldn't tell you whysometimes, why I ended up here,
but for some reason we have beengiven the privilege to be there
.
When those bad things happen,like, yeah, it sucks.
And if you have a religiousview, you're like, yeah, why is

(21:45):
God letting this happen topeople?
But if you remember that, like,we have that blessing, like on
their worst day, we can helpthem, and just remember that.
It's so easy to like get caughtup in the negative stuff
sometimes, but just remember,most people are doing their best
and when their best just isn'tenough.
That's when we get to be thereto make things just a little
better.
So remember that, becausethat's what's going to push you

(22:07):
sometimes through those harderdays.

Yeah, yeah for sure.
And we talked a couple episodesago with Brady Hansen and we
talked about the evolution ofkind of the why and but.
That always stuck with mebecause he's like sometimes you
start because of the adrenalineand all the chicks dig it and
but then it that kind of growsinto, like you know, you start
to really appreciate helpingpeople and then, as he
progressed around through hiscareer, you really sort of

(22:31):
appreciate helping firefightersand just says it's that's where
I think it's okay to have thiskind of evolution of the why.
It's okay to want to do itbecause you love the rush and
the excitement.
But I think as you grow up inthe fire service a little bit,
if that's the only reason, well,that's going to taper off after
a while.
Right, but if you keep findingreasons to be grateful and

(22:51):
reasons to stay and reasons whyyou love the job and then just
be going to hold on.

You got to be careful too with your why,
because if your why is money, ifyour why is time off, if your
why is.
Anyways, I get to retire soon.
Those are not good whys.
They don't last and and I'veseen over the years lots of
firefighters that have putthings into that and they're
just unhappy, they're miserable,and in fact there was a study

(23:17):
that said a pay raise thattypically made somebody happy
for about six weeks and thenafter that they were back to be
frustrated again and and somoney and other things like
that's not a reason to do thisjob.

Yeah, we just got our July raises so I'm riding
that way for two more.
But no, I think that's perfectbecause I you do hear of people
that from the outside, lookingin, it's like oh man, what a
sweet schedule.
Four days off, like, or to gettime off is so easy and my
hunting is gonna.
This is gonna be perfect whichit is great, which yeah there
are perks for sure, but ifthat's the only reason that
after those late night calls orafter that super traumatic call

(23:52):
so in the schedule doesn'tmatter anymore or the retirement
or whatever, and it's 25 yearsis a long time to do something
just to retire if you're nothappy with the deeper reasons.
So let's kind of transition intofrom from RCA to real life fire
department first year.
And, brian, maybe just whatyou're, what you've seen and

(24:13):
what your advice is somethingmaking that transition.
Because one thing I think I'veseen anyways, it's almost like a
roller coaster, like the RCA isso hard and you kind of have
the ups and downs but, man, yougraduate, you did it, you
succeeded, like you feel like amillion bucks and then you get
to start at a fire departmentright here right back to the
bottom.
It's like no one cares that yougraduated the RCA like

(24:35):
whoop-de-doo yeah, exactly right.
So how would you help somebodyto navigate that transition?

because the person that comes in that seems to
know it all is not a good way tostart no, it just when you
graduate, it's not over and youknow, really, for your whole
career you need to be a lifelonglearner.
You know, find social mediapages and things like that,
articles that you enjoy andconstantly be learning.

(25:02):
When somebody graduates andstarts the job, they only know
us a little bit really, inactuality.
An example would be likeairbags, like, okay, we don't
even touch airbags in the fireacademy or the state skills, but
yet when they start day one,it's like, well, that equipment
is on our engine, so there's allsorts of different things.

(25:23):
That's like they.
They come into it and they knownothing about, and then you add
into, for example, being atlike a specialty station.
It's like, okay, well, welcometo hazmat, welcome to technical
rescue, welcome to being an rfirefighter, like whatever it is
.
There's going to be all sortsof things that they just know
nothing about.
There's also just the kind ofoddities of the department.

(25:44):
So the, the programs that areused to do reports, what the
reports look like, what thedepartment is looking for, what
your boss is looking for anyways, there's all sorts of things
that you have to learn and itcomes fast, and so having that
ability to be corrected over andover is is going to happen.

(26:04):
It's like, well, that's great,you did it this way in the rca,
but this is how we do it hereand we struggle with that in the
rca because there's lots ofdifferent ways to do the same
thing and in the end we'retrying to get them their
certification.
So sometimes we have to teachthem certain ways that that meet
the state's requirements andthen the department can adjust

(26:26):
and get them going a differentdirection.
But at least they have afoundation to to work on.
But yeah, when they come in itis not going to be restful.
Most of the firefighters,monday to Friday, kind of look
at work as being eight to five.
You know a new firefighter,their work is pretty much eight
to ten.
You know why the guys arerelaxing and taking it easy and

(26:48):
stuff like that.
They have a lot of catch up todo, and when I say catch up,
it's okay.
Now there's hundred pages ofpolicy, there's all these
protocols, all sorts of thingsthat are going on and and so
they have a lot to really getcaught up on.
In the end they need to rememberthat it's like they have a
certain job to do and they needto learn that job and master

(27:11):
that job.
So, for example, like all ofthe equipment on the fire engine
, that's all of theirs they needto know how to operate
everything on there and know asmuch as possible about it.
And then it's, for example,like the captain's job as far as
when to implement it and thingslike that.
And so we all and chief hanekhas done a really good job with
helping us to understand we allhave in our roles that we're in.

(27:33):
We need to just kick butt inthe role that we have and we
need to be masters of it.
And the same time, we're alllearning, we're all trying to
get better at it.
But that rookie comes in justtrying to come up to speed and
there's going to be a lot ofrunning and sprinting going on.
In the end, it needs to be alittle bit of a marathon though,

(27:53):
too, because that learning isgoing to extend out for a year
and it's pretty hard, but it's.
It can also be a lot of fun.
It's a struggle sometimes toconstantly be thrown on your
turnouts and be sweating anddoing all sorts of drills and
stuff like that, but hopefullyyou can also have fun with it
too, like, oh man, I'm gettingpaid to to do this stuff right

(28:15):
now.
To like, and sometimes evenjust looking at it is like, ah,
you know what this is like aworkout and I'm just building
bigger muscles for the chickstype of thing that's.

It's interesting to say that because I watch my
kids play and they're like doingthese play games with like
military stuff or they'llpretend to be firefighters
sometimes and our last trainingit's like we're in a band and
building, they've smoked out andwe got to go rescue somebody.

Like this is the ultimate play scenario, like my
kids would kill to be able tolike play with this and I'm
being paid, and I'm being paidto be here.

That's right and so I think that's a great
perspective to keep.
But I think also it's one thingand as and I've not that long
into it either, I've only beenwith Logan three years, but my
first year is just I think itcan be really easy to get
overwhelmed with the amount ofstuff.
You're supposed to listen, itcan feel like man, I'm supposed
to know every piece of equipmenton this truck and I and all my

(29:06):
medications and all the doses,and there's just so many things.
What's the best way you guyshave found to kind of triage
that a little bit, because it'simpossible to know everything
and especially in your firstyear you're being tested on so
many things.
How do you go about triagingthat so that you can do it in a
productive way and not just getso overwhelmed.
You just get saturated withinformation, you can't remember
anything well.

By the way, I think it's going to be a great
question for Jordan, because anexample is, with Jordan we
didn't really go over drugs andthings like that and he just
would come to the tablebasically knowing that
information and I know some ofthat was with help potentially
from his partners and and thingslike that and the things that I
had to do to kind of help outwere actually really minimized

(29:47):
because, for example, I knowlike he would write a report and
then you would have like Nikkilook at the report, and so Nikki
would give suggestions andthings like that, and by the
time it got to me it lookedpretty dang good, and so my, my
input to Jordan over the yearwas more on the minimal side
because he came to the tablewith really good stuff.

(30:10):
So I guess the question is,yeah, how did you kind of
navigate some of that?
well thanks, I appreciate that.

That's the only nice thing I'm gonna say we can
replay that over and over I havea standard of not telling him
positive things.

I'll pay for it when we go back on shift
tomorrow.
But no, I think a couple thingson that first.
You come in, it's your firstweek and I do remember having
that feeling of like holy crap,I'm getting paid for this.
I just went through six monthsof misery.
You're paying to do that, payingto go suffer and learn all this
, and now I'm somewhere and I'mgetting paid to do this and it

(30:44):
was awesome.
And then you kind of have amoment of humility because
you're like, wow, there's a lot.
And number two, it's anotherwave of of humility.
When you're like, man, this isfor real.
These four people that I'm withare counting on me now to be
successful on the RCA.
If you, if you run out of airand you're building and somehow
your mask gets ripped off or youdon't save the victim, it's a

(31:05):
dummy.
Your mask comes off, it's justfog.
Everybody's gonna go home.
But you have that wave ofhumility of like man.
These people are counting on meand it's not just for fun and
for learning.
Now they, they, they expect thebest and I think that's part of
that comes in and that's partof what drove me to study and
really know my stuff, because Ihave the big fear of letting
people down.
I hate it always have been.

(31:25):
I like the people please.
I like obviously to succeed.
I think we all do, and so whenyou have that hopefully
everybody has that wave of thisis for real and I need to know
it because otherwise somebodycould get hurt, whether that's
me, my partner.
It's humbling to realize it.
A lot of that's in your hands,granted, you have a lot of help,
you have a lot of peopleguiding you and and you're never

(31:46):
alone in the fire service,which is really nice to know
that.
But yeah, that's a lot of whatdrove me is you take your
strengths and you run with them.
For me, I personally, I'vealways felt a little more
confident on the fire stuff.
I felt confident in my abilityto pull a line, to drag a victim
, to throw a ladder.
That stuff was always a littlesimpler for me.
I struggled with the medical.
So my studies, those latenights till 10, 11, when I'm

(32:08):
just in the little office roomby myself, we're focused a lot
on reading the medical protocols.
I would.
I remember going to sleep thevery first night and I couldn't
sleep and I was, my mind wasjust rolling.
I'm like what, what am I gonnado if this happens?
What am I gonna do if thishappens?
And you're new and you're kindof freaked out and my mind is
just racing and I you realizelater they have all that
information.
You just got to get it dialeddown.

(32:30):
So I just started reallyquickly just reading all the
protocols, writing notes, asking, ask your partners, tons of
questions.
I really used that chain ofcommand a lot.
I didn't want to bug CaptainDavies a lot, but you know your
partners, the engineer, ask himabout the engine, where they
keep things, how things work,study those protocols and don't
be afraid to just ask questions,ask a billion questions,

(32:53):
because most people want you tosucceed.
They don't want a partner orsomeone on their crew that's
going to let them down, so theywant you to succeed.

So, especially like everybody wants you to do
good, and I think your abilityto be a good probi versus an
annoying probi is how you askquestions.
Absolutely Like the at leastfrom my experience, what you
kind of see is like the morespecific the question that
you've actually put some thoughtinto.
Versus like, hey, walk methrough the engine.
Or hey, can you tell me?
Versus like hey, what is thistool exactly and how does it

(33:23):
work?
That's a much easier thing forsomebody to jump in and help you
with.
Versus like hey, help me traintoday.
Well, what do you want to do?
Like you can't put the burdenon your crew to figure out your
curriculum, right?

There's also lots of things you can do on your own
before you potentially even askthe questions.
So we talk about, like airbags.
Well, okay, you can go toparatex website or YouTube or
whatever and look at theirtraining videos that they have
on the equipment, and thenthere's also going to be all
sorts of videos of people usingthe equipment.
You can also do things on yourown.
It's not to say that you can'task, but, yeah, definitely, a

(33:59):
more drilled in question isbetter and, by the way,
sometimes I love it because theywill actually do a little bit
of research.
Then they start asking you somequestions and it's like I don't
know the answer to that, and sothen it's like well, let's find
it out, type of thing.
Instead of me teaching themwhat I know about it, all of a
sudden they're asking a specificquestion about something is

(34:22):
like I don't know the answer tothat.
That's cool, that's something Idon't know, let's figure it out
.
So yeah it.
I think there's kind of abalance there as far as asking
people but also knowing that youcan do things on your own too,
and those after hour times,those are times when you can do
some of that stuff.
There's also lots of things thatyou just don't learn in your

(34:42):
training.
For example, that cleaningequipment, this stuff just
doesn't get clean on its own,and there are times that Jordan
would receive an assignment andit's like you have this
compartment to clean or you havethis tool to clean or whatever,
and after hours, at nineo'clock at night, maybe on the
work bench, taking somethingapart and cleaning it all up and

(35:03):
making it look nice, and in theend, it's like we all have to.
Granted, it was nice having aJordan for a year to do a lot of
those things for us, but wealso spent a lot of years not
having a probationaryfirefighter on our crew, and so
it's like that's us out theredetailing, cleaning the fridge
and all these other things thatjust have to get done.

(35:25):
We don't have a maid, we don'thave a bunch of those different
things.
We have to do it, and I likesome of those things to be clean
, just because the public comesto check out that stuff.
They come in our station,they're looking around, they
check out our vehicles, thingslike that, and so, again, just
like we're representing thedepartment, our equipment is,
and our stations arerepresenting the department too,

(35:46):
and so trying to have them looknice and is all important.
It's things like that in yourfirst year that you are
continuing to learn.

And I think it's a helpful part of the triage.
I know for me starting withLogan, even though and I felt
like I had the opportunity tokind of be a new guy twice,
because you come into thevolunteer world right out of the
academy and I started withNorth Logan and everything's new
but after doing that forseveral years and then being a
new guy again, after having donethis for like 10 plus years as

(36:14):
a volunteer I knew there waselements being new, but I had no
idea how different the careerworld was from the volunteer.
But one of the first things Iwas like well, I just want to be
helpful on seeing, like I don'twant to be a hindrance, even if
I don't know how all this stuffworks yet, I want to at least
know where it is.
And by detailing the ambulanceand every compartment and every
like, pulling out all the stuffout of the orange box and

(36:36):
cleaning then over time, likeyou do that every shift or
whatever, then at least whensomebody says, hey, go grab the
stature or go grab the vacuumsplints, like I know where that
is.
I don't know how it works orthere's going to be things that
may mess up and how to use it,because I've never put one on
before, but at least I knowwhere it is and I'm going to
which, by the way, sleep issuper important.

Jordan talked about not being able to sleep.
One of the ways that we knowhow to reduce or to sleep better
is to reduce stress.
If you feel confident andcomfortable in your job, you're
going to sleep better.
And so, just kind of that yearputting it, it's a grind and but
if you put that in, it sets youup for just so much success in

(37:17):
the future.

Yeah, and I think I don't know.
I think there still is thatbalance of overwhelming and
pressure versus, like, where youcan cut yourself some slack,
right, like no one's expectingyou to be, like you said, an
expert in any of this stuff, butbecause obviously, if there's a
tech rescue call, you guys areon shift, there's going to be a
lead who knows he does know allthe things right, but can you be

(37:39):
a helpful part of that team?
And when they want to set up aZ-rig, even though you're not
expected to do it all byyourself, like can you be
helpful in that process?
Or that's not the time to beasking a hundred questions, but
if you're familiar with itenough, you can at least be a
helpful part of it.
I think that's where, as aprobationary firefighter, that's
okay.
If that's your goal for now,right, like, just work on that

(38:00):
part because you don't want tooverwhelm yourself so much to
where it just feels like man,I'm never going to learn any of
this.
Right, because that's not ahelpful mindset, that's not
going to be productive.

It's all about the baby steps.
You can't just jump to to buildthe Z-rig if you don't know
where your pulleys are, whereyour row bags are, and so I
think that's a good thing toremember is, start with those
baby steps.
Just know your toolbox.
I remember in the verybeginning that's the first thing
I did is, every day I got onshift for probably the first I
would walk through everycompartment on every rig at my

(38:29):
station, which took a while.
So we'd get on, we'd do ourchecks in the morning, everybody
would go upstairs have somebreakfast and I would just stay
down there and I would open upevery single compartment.
I'd try to memorize everythingthat was in there.
I'd be like, okay, this one isgoing to have this is the
engineer's compartment, all histools, and I'd open it up and
I'd double check that I got itall right when I'd go to the
next one.
And that way I knew that ifsomeone was to ask me to go grab

(38:52):
something in the middle of astressful situation, I wouldn't
get back to the engine of thetruck and be like where is it?
And so start with those babysteps, because once you know
where it is, then you can learnhow to use it, and once you know
how to use it, then you canstart to master it.
But it's going to take time.

It's that type of stuff that is that's what it
takes to be successful in yourprobationary year is putting in
that time.
And also it's putting in thetime when nobody's watching.
Not putting in the time like,hey, you see me checking this
stuff.
That type of thing.
It's going out there and reallyjust doing it because it's the
right thing to do and to come upto speed on stuff.

(39:26):
And yeah, jordan did afantastic job with that.
And the cool part is that, asJordan's learning and you start
going on calls with him over andover, the months go by, things
like that my confidence leveland what Jordan can do just goes
up and up and it's like but hestill has weaknesses.
So, for example, if we had aconfined space rescue call, all

(39:49):
right, jordan's gonna, he'sgonna be helpful, but he's not
going to be super helpful, butthings like that will come with
time.
And but yet if we go on amedical call, it's like, well, I
know he's really good at takingcare of patients.
I also know that he's reallygood being like an assistant to
the paramedic as far as gettingthem the equipment that they
need because he's familiar withit, being able to assist with

(40:10):
procedures, things like thatwhen they say, hey, this is what
we need done, we need an IO orwhatever.
It's like he's competent andcapable of doing it and you
don't just, you can't just wishthose things to happen, you have
to physically put in the timeand the effort to make it happen
.
I remember Chief Thompson.
I mean there's a reason whyChief Thompson is where he's at

(40:30):
right now, but when he was on mycrew years ago, we didn't have
policies on an app, it was allin a booklet and anyways, just
over time he was just constantlyknowing the EMS policies and I
asked him like how do you knowthat so well?
And he's like, every nightbefore I go to bed, he's like I

(40:50):
read a protocol and it's like assimple as that is.
He made that something that wasimportant to him and just did
it.
And it showed because he was sowell versed with the protocols.
But yeah, you have tophysically put, set aside some
time to do that stuff.

I think that's a great example too of like you
don't have to come up with a lotof like all the groundwork's
there.
Like just by doing a good truckcheck right, you're going to
learn where stuff's at.
You don't have to come up withall these new ways to learn, but
as a new guy, you shouldn't bethe first one done with a truck
check and waiting on otherpeople.
That's a bad sign right, youshould always be the last one

(41:29):
because you're thoroughly goingthrough.
And so it's.
Yeah, I think sometimes we feellike, oh, I got to come up with
all these new strategies on tolearn, and the reality is, no,
just do your job well, likeeverything's already laid out.
If you just do it thorough,you're going to learn it.
And I think that's one thingthat stood out to me over time
is you're doing these truckchecks and it just feels like

(41:49):
man, I never remember like Ididn't.
I did this last week for acouple hours and I and this week
I'm still trying to figure itout.
But man, I feel like once youget that year and a half, two
years behind you now, it almostjust feels like, yeah, I know
exactly where the bandages are,obviously right, but it took
like that muscle memory of doinggood truck checks for a long
time before.
Now.
It's just easier to.

By the way.
Then you start getting into theboredom phase and you have to
figure out how do I do a goodvehicle check without just
assuming that everything's whereit's supposed to be, and so
you'll have different kind ofstruggles throughout your career
.
As far as as something assimple as the vehicle check, do
I just paper whip this and it'slike, yeah, it's probably just
fine, or do I actually put someeffort into it and just make

(42:31):
sure it's okay?
The one thing that I don't likeand have experienced it over
the years is you think thatsomething's there and then you
actually get on the call andit's not, and you have nobody to
blame but yourself, and thatkind of beats you up and it's
like I don't want that to happen, you know again, or I want to
try and minimize that.

(42:52):
But, by the way, going back toJordan would show up early to
work and one of two things wouldstart.
He would either if the vehiclewas dirty, boom, he would be
washing it, and if the vehiclewas clean, then he was right
into his vehicle checks.
And again, we don't want to dothings so that people see us,

(43:13):
but the other crews are noticingthis stuff and in the end
during your probationary time.
You're also trying to beaccepted into this family and
your work ethic and yourattitude will make it a lot
easier for that family to kindof accept you in.
You're trying to prove yourself, and the more naturally you can

(43:34):
do that the better.
But sometimes you even have todo things you don't want to do.
So, for example, like in themorning it's like you get to
work and it's like I don't wantto wash this vehicle.
You just do it because that'swhat we do, and so there's lots
of little things like that tokind of help you to be
successful when you're new.

And I think it comes back to that core belief
system too.
Right, Like if you trulybelieve in serving your brothers
and sisters on the firedepartment, it's not about
washing the vehicle anymore.
I'm making the job easier foreverybody else.
I'm doing this for them.
I'm not doing it for the chief.
To have a shiny vehicle toparade around, Like that's not a
bad reason either.
You want to help the chief, butif you always have that deeper

(44:14):
reason, it's like no, I'm doingthis for my family.
Like then it doesn't matterwhat the task is right.
Like it's bigger than whateverthat moment is.

We're all going to struggle with some of those,
though, because, for example, Ilaugh when we're going off shift
.
Some of these guys will go outand start cleaning the vehicle
for the next crew, and I laughinternally that it's like I
don't want to.
I just got 20 more minutes andthen I can move on with other
things, and it's like they'reout there happily washing the
rig.
It's like all right, it's theright thing to do, like I need

(44:46):
to go do that, I need to go joinin, and so, as we encourage
them to do things with us and,at the same time, they're kind
of encouraging us to do theright thing also, and so I love
it.
Even the guy that's only beenthere for two months can still
help me to make good decisions,and when he goes out and starts
washing the rig, it's likewhat's the right thing to do?

(45:07):
Grab a brush and join in, andso we, even as old people, need
those little prods too, to go dothe right thing.

You got to kind of just get over that
embarrassment of being I don'twant to say like goody two shoes
, but like as a pro, that's whatyou're supposed to be, right.
You're supposed to take thatextra time.
You're supposed to make surethose rigs are clean, make sure
your saws are clean.
You want to make sureeverything's orderly, that
you're running to get the doorrunning to answer the phone,
that you're up before everyoneand empty in the dishwasher,
like you don't want.

(45:36):
You got to lose your pride alittle bit there for a minute.
And I remember my same thingthe very first full time shift.
We went on a call and since itwas the first night I got it.
I was on the engine that veryfirst night cause I was an extra
person and we were going toback into the station and I
couldn't get my seatbelt undone.
I wasn't ready and CaptainPerry got out before me.

(45:57):
He started backing in, backingthe engine, and afterwards they
came up to me like hey, this isreal now.
Like you, jump out there andstart backing them up.
You know, don't let yourcaptain get out.
And I remember feeling a littleembarrassed to get out, like I
didn't want to be.
Oh, jumping out so quickly toget the stuff done.
But it was more embarrassingthat I didn't do it.
It was more embarrassing that Ilet them down.

(46:18):
And so you got to lose yourpride a little bit and fulfill
all of those probie stereotypes.
Cause if you do it and you goabove and beyond and you find
one extra thing a day that youcan just make a little bit
better, then you're going to besuccessful.
And everybody else is going tosee it too, and I think
personally it helps people havetrust in you If they see you
working hard and you're upbefore everybody already

(46:39):
studying your protocols and thedishwasher's empty and the
kitchen's clean and your rigsare clean and checks are done
and everything's where it shouldbe.
You're going to have trust inyour partner.
They're going to have trust inyou and you're only going to be
better for it.
Like, fulfill that's what I'dsay to all the people who are
starting a job or on probationis just fulfill that stereotype,
go above and beyond with it.
Like, fill that role, likeyou're only going to be better

(47:00):
for it.

Yeah just own it, right.
Yeah, this is what it is.
I think you own that.
And then there's a period toowhere it's like you're being
watched when you start reallyheavily at the beginning, when
you're starting and through yourprobationing.
But then I'd say everybody'swatching you again the moment
you come off probation right,because now it's like okay, now
we're going to see who this guyreally is.

He's on the stereotype but like now Can I
tease Jordan about that all thetime.
It's like dude, we should havekept you on probation.

But I think you know, and I think that happens
when you come off probation, Ithink that happens anytime.
So I served an LDS mission too,and I remember being sitting at
a letter home.
I was frustrated that we'd doneall these great things in one
area I was in and every time I'dmoved to a new area it's just
like the congregation didn'tcare or just like didn't know

(47:47):
how cool I was as a missionary.
And my dad wrote back and hesaid something you need to learn
in life is people only careabout the great things you do
while you're among them, and soI kind of kept that as my mantra
, even for the fire service,because all the great things you
do during the academy are greatin that moment.
But when you move on to thenext step, people are only going

(48:07):
to care about the great thingsyou do while you're with them.
And I think if you can hold onto a mindset like that, where
when you shift or switch crewsor switch shifts or whatever,
every time you're in a new groupnow they don't really care
about what you did on your lastdepartment or while you were on
whoever's crew or whateverstation, and even for small

(48:28):
moments with trades or overtimeshifts.
They care in that moment whatyou're doing while you're
amongst them, and I think if youcan continue and maintain those
good habits, then that goeseven further.
But maybe we'll just wrap up ona couple of things.
Here Is one Captain Davies,what advice would you give to
crews that have a probationaryfirefighter?
We've talked a lot about whatthe probate can do and what it

(48:51):
takes to be a good new guy.
What are helpful things for thecrews to be mindful of to be a
good support system for theirnew guy?

I'd say stay busy between eight and five.
Yeah, we want to try and getour reports done and things like
that, but we also want to tryand invest a lot of time into
our probationary firefighterWith Jordan.
Compared to some of the others,we didn't physically have to do
a ton of training with him.
But I would say you can watchYouTube videos, you can talk

(49:19):
about it, but in the end yougotta get out there and sweat,
you gotta put some up.
It's Thanksgiving.

I've heard this has anybody ever trained on
Thanksgiving Of some jerkcaptain?

who made?

everybody train, even on Thanksgiving.

Yep.
Well, we had an acquiredstructure.
It was like we're gonna go tearthe crap out of it.
Who doesn't want to bedestructive on Thanksgiving?
I thought that was totallyappropriate anyways.
But yeah, it's easy to findreasons why not to go be
physical with your training.
But I would say, try and getover that and go out there and
put in the sets and reps and letthem become comfortable with

(49:53):
the equipment and the setup andstuff like that.
So, yeah, take the time toinvest in that person.
In the end they're gonna be onthat department for a lot of
your years and the better and Ibelieve this a lot that if you
put in a lot of time and effortwith them at the beginning and
helping them to know andunderstand what good looks like

(50:16):
and what's expected that thedepartment benefits from that
for a lot of years.
As far as just having somebodythat's a harder worker, that
complains less things like that,we're all gonna have parts of
the job that we don't like andwe have to figure out how to
make the best of it.
And I think in yourprobationary year you kind of
you learn some of that whereit's like that whole term,

(50:38):
embrace the suck when it's likewe're doing hard stuff, we're
sweating, these guys are teasingme, all these things are going
on and to me it's like if youcan take that and learn from it
and enjoy it, find a way toenjoy it too, then you have a
lot of years of a happy employeeand, in the end, not only a

(50:59):
happy employee but a happycoworker.
Some of that you're with, someof that's not bringing you down.

Yeah.

I think that's great.

And what I've gathered a lot from what you've
said too is kind of just liketheir owning being a probie,
also on the fact that you alsodon't know everything If they
ask a question you don't knowit's more about.
You can show what a career offiguring stuff out looks like
versus this massive knowledgebase where you're expected to
know the answer to everythingand I think, setting that
expectation for them too that,yeah, we may not know every

(51:27):
single thing, but we're prettydang good at figuring it out,
and over a career, you getpretty fast at figuring it out
on the fly.
So, jordan, what are somethings that you would, now that
you're off probation, severalmonths behind you and you can
say anything you want?
So what would you say to crews?

Well, we work tomorrow, so you might pay for
it tomorrow.
Safe space, thank you.

But yeah, what would like, having been through
it, or some takeaways you gotfrom your crews that you had
offered a cruise, now thatcurrently have a probationary
firefighter.

I would.
I mean, I don't know if I havemuch more than what Captain
Davies said, but I would I liketo remember that your probation
is such a small period of timewhen you look at the long 25
plus years of a career.
But that being said is you candevelop a lot of habits in a
year.
It's a long time to create yourruts and point a direction of
how the rest of your career isgonna go.

(52:18):
And I'm not saying you can'tchange.
You can always change and bebetter.
But I would just say, justremember that you're shaping
that probationary firefighter.
Your attitude, I think, is a bigone and I think we do a really
good job at Logan Fire just withgood attitudes.
And I'd say almost everybody'snormally pretty happy to be at
work and the pro is gonna Noticethat.

(52:40):
He's gonna notice that, look,this guy's still happier.
Oh, this guy's a little salty.
So have that good attitude andremember that you're kind of
molding and shaping these people, even if you don't think you
are your influence and you'rethe consequences of your actions
.
Have a lot more.

That's a big ripple effect.

That's the word I'm looking for.
It's a bigger ripple effectthan you'd think you.
We do things all the time andyou really don't know how they
affect people.
So think about how it's gonnaaffect and remember that you're
shaping them and you have a lotof power as to how they're gonna
turn out.

So remember something on my with because you
know, as they rotate youstations and get new crew every
quarter, I was just supergrateful that guys were allowing
me to start over.
Sometimes you, especiallybrandy you're making tons of
mistakes and you just feel likean idiot all the time.
And and your first crew, Ithink they're gonna see the
almost the worst part of youbecause you're still figuring so
many things out.
But then you get your next crewand I was just grateful that

(53:30):
they allowed me to start fresh.
I was like, okay, this is afresh start, I can and then.
But then, after all themistakes they made on that crew,
then the next crew, or and oreven if you're with a crew for a
longer period of time, that Ithink having a crew that allows
you to change and Doesn't holdthat first impression too much
over your head.
But I think that helped me alot to really get past some

(53:50):
milestones where you could bemore on the helpful side.
But just want to kind of wrapup with one more thing just any
new fire fire, especially withLogan fire.
I think we have an incrediblyvaluable resource in our
clinicians and how that's allAll paid for and covered through
the peer team and and thegrants and everything that

(54:11):
they've worked hard to establish.
So I think, as a new person, youhave to be very careful who you
complain to and you don't wantto be branded that way, and but
bottling everything upnecessarily isn't gonna be the
best thing either, and so Iwould just encourage any new
person I mean, we have all theseclinicians that have zero tie
the department there and it'sall 100% confidential if you

(54:32):
need to do a session or two orwhat or more, and just have a
place where you Convent abouthow much of a jerk your captain
is or whatever, and then, ofcourse, you are also talking to
a trained professional Help youprocess that a little bit.
They're familiar, andespecially the vetted clinicians
on our website.
They're familiar with Logan.
They've done ride-alongs,they're familiar with our
culture.
They can help talk you down.

(54:53):
So when you go back on shiftYou're actually in a better spot
to learn and be productivewithout having necessary to
complain to your partner on therescue about the Court tests or
chief LeCouin, or just keepcomplaining about him.

Which, by the way, I look back and wonder how
different would my life be if Ihad the tools that people have
now, not only the anyways.
I mean, I have a divorce in mybackground, struggles with kids
here and there, and things likethat and it makes you wonder,
like if I had the knowledge andthe ability to have somebody

(55:26):
help me with some of thosethings, what would be better,
what would have been different?
I guess and and I know it wouldbe because the department is on
such a good pathway with thisstuff, because I already see,
for example, I mentioned podcastone and two and I was visiting
with my wife about those thingsand and not only that, but

(55:46):
Encouraging her.
I was wanting to do it together, but when we were watching it
at work the other day, I senther the link and I'm like you
should watch this.
This is really good, and partof that is just helping them to
understand us.
We don't even totallyunderstand ourselves and yet
we're asking somebody to livewith us and it's like I don't
know what to tell you Because Idon't even understand myself.

(56:08):
I don't understand why I comehome and all of a sudden I'm
maybe don't talk a whole lot orsuper Hyper focused on cleaning
the kitchen or whatever, like Idon't totally understand those
things, but together we can kindof work through this and figure
it out.
And so between these podcasts,between Peer support, things

(56:28):
like that, there are so manycool little things and
oftentimes I would suggest notwaiting, and so when you start
thinking or wondering orwhatever, to me that's the time
to act, and not lettingsomething go on for months and
years or whatever, and thenbeing like, oh yeah, we need
help.
To me it's like, oh man, figurethat stuff out at the very

(56:48):
beginning.
Jump into a session withtherapists, with your wife, and
just be like you know I comehome and I do this and I don't
understand why.
And you know, allow athird-party person To explain it
to you, to explain it to yourwife and stuff like that, and
even potentially explain it toyour kids.
It was like dad has thisreaction when he gets off shift

(57:08):
or a bad call or something likethat.
And and and just to me, themore you can involve your family
and kind of our nuances Notthat I'm asking people to change
because of us, but to just helpus all to understand each other
.
And so, yeah, I look at these,these new guys coming up, and

(57:28):
it's like, oh man, they've gotso many tools that we never had
and we just hope people wouldtake advantage of them, right?

I think?
From the peer team perspective,it's like we know how helpful
these things are, but you can'tmandatory them, right?
because, as a EMT, you'repushing medication and you can
strap somebody down.
Everybody's holding them down.
You give them the medication.
It's gonna help them,regardless of whether they want
it or not.
It's not the same way withmental health stuff, like you
have to choose to have it.

(57:55):
If you don't choose to have it,it's not gonna be helpful.
And so as much as we canencourage and make people see
the benefits, then hopefullythey can choose to take
advantage of the resources andtools we have.
Right, and yeah, we hope, astime goes on, that the new guys
can see the tool and it justbecomes normal.
That's, I think, the ultimatehope is, while tools are new,

(58:16):
everybody's a little.
You know, even physical tools.
On New tool on the engine,everybody's a little hesitant,
right, I've never used that toolbefore.
But I think with even thesemental health tools, the more
they're around, the more youhear about people using them.
Then it just becomes that mucheasier.

Yeah, I just say especially as a new guy, when
you start seeing the crazythings that we tend to See on
this job that there's no need tobe some brave soul.
I mean, I think all of us deepdown we kind of have that
similar personality.
You want to be like, oh, thatdidn't, that didn't affect me,
like craziness was, this wasjust fine.
But there's no need to be brave.
You need it.
You need to be able to controlyourself and be brave when the

(58:51):
tones go off.
But other than that, you know,reach out to someone, talk
someone, and that's just gonnamake you better off for that
next call.
You'll be more prepared andyou'll know how to handle those
things.
So definitely use those tools.

Yeah, and that I think Kevin Dave's brought a
good time.
It bleeds over on both sides ofcareer and home life and so,
again, we hope anybody that hasquestions about those resources
or tools they reach out to amember of the peer team or we
have our website where you cando it all privately.
You don't have to go throughanybody, no one has to know, but
those tools are accessible andeasy to get to.
So but of course, peer team andAnybody on the apartment really

(59:25):
I think everybody's in a prettygood spot.
They're willing to help.
So I hope you'd reach out.
But thanks, guys, for joiningus today.
What a great session with twoliving 71.

Thanks for having us.

It was pretty stressful, thanks.

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