June 12, 2023 • 37 mins
Join us for an inspiring conversation with Chief Doug Fulmer and Captains Andy Shock and Jason Gibbons as they share their experiences in the fire service. From Chief Fulmer's 26-year journey with the Logan Fire Department to Captain Shock's path from the Utah Valley University Fire Academy, discover how these individuals have helped shape the growth of the Logan Fire Department and the outstanding team that makes it what it is today.
But what happens when it's time to hang up the helmet and retire from the fire service? Hear from Captain Shock about the importance of maintaining a positive attitude and finding purpose after leaving your firefighting career, and how to strike that crucial balance between work and family life. We also discuss the inspiring legacy of Logan Fire retirees and the valuable resources available to them and their families, including the Peer Support Team and clinicians.
This episode is packed with wisdom, humor, and inspiration from those who have dedicated their lives to helping their communities. Listen in and let Chief Fulmer, and Captain Shock and Gibbons ignite your passion for service and remind you of the importance of supporting each other through every chapter of life.
Thank you for joining us for another episode of our Firefighter Support podcast, where our mission is to empower firefighters to strengthen their resiliency through mental wellness, physical health, and human connection. This podcast is available across any platform where you can find podcasts, including YouTube.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brent Harding (00:00):
Welcome everyone to our ninth episode of our
firefighters podcast.
So thanks everybody for beinghere, especially chief fulmer.
You know how busy the guy youwere before retirement.
It seems like your busyness hastripled century retirement.
It's all good.
It's a pretty good time to bewith us today.
Let's just start.
For those that don't, that maybe tuned in on this, that aren't
(00:20):
as familiar with the legendStatus that you have, give us a
little bit of background on you,little Intro to your fire
career, kind of look briefresume and tell us about you.
Doug Fullmer (00:31):
Okay, doug fulmer, i married, have four children
that are all married, and we'veraised all of our children here
in Cache Valley.
I was, fortunate enough, getmarried in 91 and Then went to
school at Utah State for quite awhile five years couldn't
really figure out what I wantedto be and just ended up taking
an EMT class which started medown the road of Getting some
(00:55):
exposure with Logan firedepartment and even then I
didn't have any desire to do thejob.
But I started with Logan fire95 work there for 26 years and
it's good ride.
Brent Harding (01:06):
Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
And especially, you know, itseems like in today's world guys
are switching agencies every somany years with stay with one
Agency for your whole career.
What kept you at Logan?
you know, because I'm surethere was a lot of changes
during your 26 year career well,that's.
Doug Fullmer (01:24):
Yeah, i think there's probably a lot of stuff
there that probably was part ofthe equation, but I grew up here
, i've lived in Providence andNibley and North Logan, logan,
and so I just have known a lotof people.
It's it means a lot to be ableto serve your own community.
For me, to stay at Logan firewas Super rewarding.
Super rewarding just to be ableto build Relationships with so
(01:45):
many people in the community andnetwork.
Yeah, i don't think you wouldhave ever saw me leave.
Brent Harding (01:49):
Yeah well, that's pretty awesome.
Tell me a little bit aboutwhere Where Logan fire was when
you started and we were talkingabout a little bit at you know,
before we started here But thestarting pay was 21,000 when you
started and just give us anidea of just how much things
have changed over that course ofyour career.
Doug Fullmer (02:09):
I'll butcher this but John Fulmer tells a really
funny story about a fire thathappened at McDonald's Right on
700 North Main.
Have you guys ever heard himtell that story?
I don't think so.
Okay, look, before You leaveLogan fire.
Before he leaves, you have tograb John Fulmer and have him
tell you this story, because itreally tells you the total
(02:30):
contrast between where you guysare today and what we were then.
But You know, it comes down toeducation and experience, and
those people that ran Logan fireor Were exceptional at the time
they've.
You know, i believe that westand on the shoulders of giants
And so we are the beneficiariesof everything that they put
into the organization back then.
(02:52):
However, when they had thisfire as a car fire at McDonald's
, this car pulled up underneaththe carport and you know, deaver
she's Deaver jumped in hisvehicle and he went there and he
pushed this vehicle out fromunderneath the carport with just
his civilian clothes on and theengine pulled up and, of course
(03:13):
, it was a fuel line that hadbroke.
So you've got fuel that'sspilling onto the ground and
it's going downhill because it'skind of a you know, Got a grade
to the parking lot and Now yougot water and so the fuel is
moving faster across the parkinglot.
Now It's going towards the fireengine and they're trying to
move the hose line to get itthere And it knocks one of our
(03:33):
firefighters on his butt, breaksthe regulator.
So now you got a regulatorthat's spraying everywhere.
You've got a firefighter that'sdown fuel moving towards the
fire engine.
It's going underneath the fireengine and the engineer on the
other side can't see it.
I mean, it was bad news bears,right.
And Now you just look at theODP and the things that chief
Hanna gets done and many otherpeople along the way.
(03:54):
Right, it's not just one person, it's a combination of
everybody putting an effort intomaking such an exceptional
Organization.
Logan fires like the bomb.
Brent Harding (04:04):
Yeah that could go off at any second, no, just
yeah.
No, i think that that is coolAnd, you know, i think that's
one of the things over a courseof a career that can be hard for
people to see all that change,right, but it just seems like
you're always at the forefrontof embracing it and pushing it
forward and and a huge part ofour Organization and getting us
to that next level as well, andso I think that's pretty awesome
(04:25):
.
Andy, let's get let's get alittle intro on you real quick
and then just tell us a littlebit about you, how your career
Started and and a little bit ofyour resume and career history.
Andy Shock (04:35):
Well, i mean, i went through UVU if they're fire
Academy there.
I've been married.
We had My first boy, logan.
He was like six months old when, i think Logan fire Just ran
out of candidates, so theyaccepted my resume and Yeah,
(04:55):
that was 19 years ago and we hadthree other children while
we're here in the in the Valleyand So I've just been trying to
keep up with guys like Doug,really, you know and the watch
it's getting deep and Andyounger guys like like Gibbons
and like you, Brent.
I mean you just bring so muchIt's it's hard to keep up with
it all but yeah, yeah, no, i youknow we all have.
Brent Harding (05:19):
We could go on for hours on stories, But I got
somebody on both of you guysthat throughout my career, both
mostly as a volunteer up to thispoint, but then the last course
, last couple years with Logan.
But and he tells us a littlebit about because same thing
with chief formers you know oneagency for you as well.
You know, i think is this kindof a cool thing Is there?
You know something that thatplayed a role in that for you.
Andy Shock (05:42):
Well, you know, i'll be honest, it's pretty tough to
see friends.
You know your brothers go toother departments and and I
think there are.
Each department has its prosAnd also the cons, like, like,
it depends on what is going tobe the best for you and for your
family.
So some departments offer quitea bit more than Logan has, the
(06:03):
Logan just isn't going to beable to provide right And.
But also Logan provides thingsthat other departments just
wouldn't be able to, and And sofor my family and the things
that That Jesse, my wife and Ithought were the most important,
then we made it work here andit really it's been really good.
Jason Gibbons (06:24):
So, yeah, yeah, you, you also had kind of a
unique Experience like yourhouse caught on fire, mm-hmm.
You responded to it from thefire station.
right, you were on.
Brent Harding (06:34):
Yeah, yeah, and that didn't scare you away from.
Logan fire.
Andy Shock (06:38):
Well, I was really grateful for Logan and I was
really grateful for ChiefPeterson at the time and Chief
Maker, because Chief Petersongave me right out there We live
out west of Cache Valley and notin our area, it's not in in
Logan City Fire Department zoneand so Chief Peterson gave me
right out and then, while wewere going out, chief Maker got
(06:59):
on the radio and asked ChiefOlson and Menden if we could, if
Logan could send some moreresources to help, and I was
really grateful, you know, forthat support And really that
helped a lot with putting outthe fire in that.
And then after just a lot ofhelp from everybody here And I
(07:22):
talk about that conservatively,because everybody has challenges
And that one was a big one AndI think it was awesome that
people came and helped.
But I feel like other peoplehave challenges that don't maybe
get that same result and theyfeel a little left out.
(07:43):
But that one was just a reallybig one.
It was easy to see and there'slots of ways to help And we had
a ton of help from the firedepartment and from others.
But it wasn't just because ofme or anything like that, it was
just out of the circumstance Alot of people might feel like
they're having challenges andaren't getting the help.
(08:04):
But maybe it's just not as easyto see Or it's a little harder
to help.
Brent Harding (08:09):
I think that's a perfect segue into what we're
talking about today, because Ithink as firefighters we are
helpers And so when you see thatneed and it's a very visual,
clear thing that needs to bedone, you're going to get 20, 30
, 40 plus guys that are justanxious to help.
But in those moments where youaren't seen, after you retire,
(08:31):
when you're not at the stationanymore, i think and the fire
service thing, that's wheresometimes we seem to fall a
little bit short, the guys wearen't seeing every day, just
like you said, it's not seen,not that no one's unwilling to
help, it's just not the bighouse on fire.
That's the obvious.
Let's go do this.
They may not know.
Jason Gibbons (08:50):
They may not know .
Honestly, for myself that'sbeen one of the reasons over the
course of time.
Everybody thinks about otherdepartments or what things might
be one way or the other, butfor me that was one example.
So that was quite a while ago.
It was a long time ago And I'vealways thought back and it's
(09:13):
like well, i do remember whenAndy's house caught on fire.
It was always something thatstuck out And it wasn't just
that.
We've had a natural gasexplosion in another one of our
members' families' houses.
That was a propane explosion.
But there's been multiplethings over the course of time
when somebody's needed help thatpeople have always kind of
stepped up or have to prevent.
(09:33):
If I had that emergency in myhouse or something similar, i
was going to be able to getthere.
Doug Fullmer (09:38):
Couple of things that jumped out to me about that
was none of us want to go towork and just really sit there
all day.
Right, we want to go to work,but typically the things that we
go and respond on are somebodyelse's worst day right.
And if I remember the storyright, andy Brian Holbrook said
something beginning of the shift.
He said man, we need a goodworking fire today.
Brent Harding (10:02):
Bless you, Brian.
Doug Fullmer (10:03):
But Holbrook said we need a good worker today.
And then he ended up respondingon his own house.
Weren't you the first nozzle inthe door?
It was a good worker too.
It was a good fire right.
Andy Shock (10:15):
He had vented through the roof And I was about
to kick the door in And ChiefPeterson was like don't you have
a key to your house?
Jason Gibbons (10:21):
I'm like I don't, i don't.
Andy Shock (10:24):
So we busted the side window, which was a good
idea, but yeah.
Doug Fullmer (10:30):
I'm really glad that it wasn't the plumber,
though, that caught it on fire.
Andy Shock (10:33):
That would have been a bad day.
Yeah, that was interesting too,because a lot of people from
the department helped work on it, And so all of them called and
was like so what was it?
Was it my fault?
But it was my fault, yeah, Youknow what, though, andy?
Doug Fullmer (10:46):
I'll never forget how you were able to smile
through that all, and it wasn'ta fake smile, right?
Andy was just laughing and justsaying it's just a house, all
my families here, my belongingsare not that important.
It's my family that's mostimportant, and I think sometimes
we do get a little calloused.
Right, we're there.
We become very robotic, we pullup, we do our job And we kick
(11:10):
crap out of it, and thensometimes forget that that's
somebody else's worst day, idon't know.
Yeah.
Brent Harding (11:18):
Well, and I think both of you have been shining
examples of that positivity andmaintaining that throughout the
workplace, and sometimes itseems like those are the people
that probably need the extrasupport the most, but they're
always giving it out and beingthe most positive And, by the
way, it goes a long way for guys.
Doug, tell us a couple ofthings about your career that
(11:41):
helped you have a we called ityesterday with Chief Hanson just
kind of an on top retirement.
Retire while you're on top,things are good, not a boot out
the door kind of scenario, butjust to get to that point where
you can retire at the top ofyour game.
Doug Fullmer (11:59):
I don't know that.
I would say I was on top of mygame.
I think you get out ofparamedic school and you
definitely feel like you're ontop of your game And you lose
those skills if you're not usingthem.
And so, as far as being aparamedic, i felt like I was a
bucket of rust by the time Ileft.
But I wanted to leave Loganwhile I still loved it.
I wanted to leave when peoplestill had some shadow of respect
(12:22):
for you and that you were ofvalue, and so that's a tough
spot to try and figure out wherethat is.
Because we know that there havebeen people who have left, and
understandably so.
They left on a really sour noteAnd we haven't seen them for a
long time, haven't seen them ata Christmas party, haven't seen
them come to any of ourget-togethers, and that's sad.
(12:43):
That's not what we want to have.
We want to have them leave on agood note, and for me, i think
it was about just trying to findbalance.
Find the balance of how muchtime and energy do I put into
work, how much time do I havefor me And how much time do I
have for my family And then anyother things that come along
with it, because you all knowthat you can put 110 hours
(13:08):
easily into that place a week,and to what benefit?
right, there's plenty of peoplethat are there to work.
But it's just about trying tofind the balance, and I felt
like I had a good balance.
Brent Harding (13:23):
Yeah, and did you have a plan leading up to it,
or was it week by week?
Doug Fullmer (13:28):
No, i think anybody who's looking to retire
you should really be spendingsome time with a URS.
Have that advisor call you up,spend some time.
I've had him come to my home,i've gone to.
They've had meetings whereyou've had school teachers and
judges and everybody cometogether.
They used to anyways.
They've had quarterly meetings.
(13:49):
It was just wise, right.
You're just forecasting.
It's the same thing we do everyday.
We come to work, we prepare forthe unknown, and that's what it
is.
You're preparing for theunknown, and it would be sad for
you to just quit one day andyou hadn't prepared and know how
does the URS work, how do theypay you And what will be your
benefits?
What will be your benefits ifyou die to your wife?
One, one one.
(14:10):
So I did that.
I just did my homework andtried to make that work.
I was fortunate enough, though,to be able to go to work the
very next week and do somethingthat I've had a lot of passion
doing, and it wasn't as hard onmy body as being a firefighter,
and so that's a tough segue toleave to go to do something else
that's going to keep yourattention.
Brent Harding (14:32):
Yeah, yeah, and tell us a little more about that
, because I think you know, atleast from some of the things
we've studied out, is that oneimportant part of retirement is
finding something to keep youryou know, not just to keep you
busy, but to you know somethingthat gives you purpose,
something that you can kind ofgive your heart to again, that,
(14:52):
like I think you said a well,that isn't maybe as hard on you
as shift work with firefighting,but you know to go to
retirement and have somethingelse that gives you purpose and
something to look forward to.
How much, i mean, has thatplayed a role in your?
Jason Gibbons (15:06):
retirement.
So we could, we could call itfilling the, the gap or the hole
left behind.
Doug Fullmer (15:12):
And it is.
It's a very real, it's a hugehole, brent.
I've been kind of taken back byit.
So you know, this week Iwondered if people were worried
about me because I've had thisopportunity to meet with the
four of you and Paul downstairs,and I've had Haas and I've had
Neil come to my house this weekand it's been super.
But it's a really big void.
(15:35):
It's almost like moving toanother country sometimes
because you just don't connectand then you hear sirens and you
just you, you just want to jumpright, you want to go and do.
I don't?
I don't know.
I've felt fortunate in thethings that I've been able to do
since my retirement.
I tease and say it's not reallybeen a retirement because I'm
still putting in 40 hours a weekdoing something different.
(15:55):
But I heard a statistic and Ishould really check this out and
vet it out to see if it'saccurate, but I can believe it
and that is that they say thatfirefighter, paramedic retires
and they change job five timeswithin five years after that,
because they're always lookingfor that pot of gold at the end
of the rainbow that you justcan't, you can't replicate.
Brent Harding (16:16):
Did that surprise you more than you thought it
would.
I mean because we talk about ita lot, but then, when the
moment it actually hits, youknow just yep, it's, it's very
real, right, i?
Doug Fullmer (16:26):
I try to reach out to people that have retired,
but somebody that has been sogood has been Jason Gibbons.
He'll call randomly How youdoing today With no agenda,
right Just to talk and justchecking on me, and that's huge.
That just means a lot.
It means, you know, i, i, ilaughed.
I took all of my business cards, right, had tons of business
(16:46):
cards and when I left I washiding them everywhere because I
was just teasing.
I don't want anybody to forgetme, right, but there is, there's
a disconnect there that youjust can't explain, but it's
very palpable.
My agenda was always to find outwhat the fish were biting every
single time I wish I could fishas much as you do.
Jason Gibbons (17:06):
It was it was always to find out what the fish
were biting.
Brent Harding (17:09):
And one thing I think different ways to cope
with that disconnect or thathole, that void.
I mean there's better ways thanother And I think you know
there's certainly some negativepaths guys can take to try to to
deal with that.
What are some positive thingsthat you've done to deal with
that?
And if you're okay talkingabout it I know you mentioned
earlier you've been meeting withJody.
Andy Shock (17:27):
Yeah.
Brent Harding (17:28):
Maybe talk about that experience and what it's
like meeting with the clinicianas a retiree and and just why
that's been important to you.
Doug Fullmer (17:35):
So it's always good to have something that
someone else needs, and being aplumber seems like everybody
needs something.
So they still just give me acall and ask for some input.
And I've been fortunate enoughto spend the last five months at
Chief Hannig's house and justdoing his remodel and and always
playing catch up, which meansI'll stop into the station to
talk to him about stuff and geta rub shoulders with everybody.
(17:57):
But it's two way street, right.
You want everybody from thedepartment to reach out to you,
but you got to reach back tothem as well.
And sometimes we kind of feellike, you know, we've just been
turned out to pastor and we'reof no value.
But I always loved that oneguys would come into this
station.
Lynn Naylor was so good aboutthat.
He would just come in regularlyjust to come and say hi And I.
(18:19):
You know those are times youjust want to drop what you're
doing.
Troy Parker said one time Iwould I'd love to come back to
Logan fire.
I feel like I could just jumpright back into the seat and do
the exact same thing.
I just feel like I could justdo it right now.
But just staying connected witheverybody, just a simple text.
That that's super.
(18:40):
As far as meeting with theclinician, i probably needed to
meet with a clinician evenduring my career.
Right There's, there were sometough, tough stuff that we've
all had to see And you justcan't ring that.
I just don't know how that wecould do it on our own.
We want to be that guy thatjust says I can and I can chuck
(19:01):
this and it just doesn't work.
That.
That's a profession thatthey're skilled in, and Jody is
exceptional.
I didn't think she was going tobe a good fit for me at first.
Right, when I walked into theroom and met with her, she was
just loud and obnoxious.
I'm like, oh my gosh, we arenot going to be a good match.
She tells a story and I won'tdivulge who it was, but if
(19:23):
anybody's watching this they'llknow who I'm talking about, if,
if they watch it.
But she said one of our guysshowed up there and everybody
had been teasing him, tellinghim that if you go and meet with
her you have to lay down, youknow, just like you're meeting
with Sigmund Freud.
And so he walked into the roomand she said he stood there for
like five minutes trying todecide how to lay down on the
couch, so he could start talkingabout his child.
(19:46):
But she's been really good And Ieven met with her just this
last week.
I'd probably go there aboutonce every six weeks, every two
months, and sometimes it's justto help relief stress or anxiety
.
She said she has a good take onfiremen and military and
policemen and medics that weredopamine addicts, whether we
(20:09):
know it or not, and we need thatdopamine fix.
And then all of a sudden whenyou retire, you don't get that
anymore.
It causes a vacuum.
Trying to figure out how tofill it is a challenge.
Brent Harding (20:23):
I think that's so great for you to be able to
talk about that and share that,because I'm sure there's guys
that maybe have thought about it.
But it's so much easier if youknow other people are doing it
too And I think even now withguys in their career.
I feel like when we initiallystarted bringing clinicians in,
there was a little bit ofuneasiness maybe, but now I
think, a couple of years into it, and it just seems like it's
(20:44):
more of the norm.
It's going to, it's every day,it's becoming more and more the
norm that it's.
To check in with a clinician isnot probably what people think
it is.
It's just a good way to checkin.
And I'm interested in yourthoughts here because you know,
as you claim which we know isn'ttrue but you're claiming your
crew is kicking you out the door.
Here you're coming up close toyour 20.
(21:06):
What are some of the thoughtsyou've had as you're approaching
at least that stage?
You know I know a lot of guysstay longer, but when that
starts becoming a reality, whatare some of the thoughts and
feelings that are coming through?
Well, just to be clear.
Andy Shock (21:22):
I got one to 10 more years.
I'm not doing a day over 10.
You know, i'm really curious tosee what, because I have an
idea, an expectation of whatit'll be like.
But like Doug working, you know, i'll be doing something
another career, not likely tofill the void or be similar to
(21:42):
this, to this job.
But yeah, i'm interested to see, to see how it is for me.
You know, because in my mind Isay, yeah, i'm going to be just
fine, right, no big deal.
But but then the reality of isit may not be you know what I'm
thinking, but I've got some,some what I consider good
friends that have retired, likeDoug and and Scott and Troy, and
(22:06):
in and of those three, all ofthem have dealt with it a little
bit different.
So I think it's a little bitdifferent for for everybody, and
sometimes it's it's kind ofwhat what?
what you make of it like a lotof life.
I think you know some some guysthat have stayed at Logan fire
instead of going to other placeswere maybe not as happy and
(22:29):
left a little grumpy or whatever, but I'm not sure that they
would have left any otherdepartment any different, right,
just because of of what we,what we tell ourselves, the
storylines that we giveourselves and kind of the
attitudes that we choose tochoose to have.
But so I hope that it'll beawesome, you know, and I can be
(22:51):
a fun grandpa And I mean thoseare the things that I look
forward to, but but I don't know, i might just like be in Jody's
office every day trying to makeit to life, but I am very
grateful that we have theresources to be able to go and
see clinicians or, you know, toget that just help or boost or
(23:13):
whatever.
Brent Harding (23:13):
So yeah, i kind of want to, because we talked
again when we were speaking withBrady to just how much attitude
plays a role in not just yourcareer, but how much that bleeds
over into retirement too.
You know, when you develop apattern and a habit of a
positive attitude, it just seemslike you know it's much easier
(23:35):
for that to carry over intoretirement than to maybe be a
little bit more grumpythroughout your career and then
to think something's magicallygoing to change when you retire,
you know.
And so, captain Shock Tussle,how do you maintain that?
I'm smiling, smiling all thetime, just smiling all the time,
and I don't think anybody inthe history of Logan fire would
(23:57):
ever peg you as a grumpy person,not even like.
I can't even have one memory ofever seeing you a little bit
grumpy.
Andy Shock (24:03):
Oh, that's just people that don't know me that
good.
You know I was very blessedwith awesome parents and family
And you know they're like.
My mom and dad are pretty greatexamples to me, because life
wasn't super easy for them.
They went through some hugechallenges that I didn't really
realize at the time and theyjust always tried to make the
(24:24):
best of the situation that theyhad, And I guess that might have
just rolled over a little bit.
I mean, my dad he had a lot ofopportunities to complain about
life or the way things were, theway things he wanted them.
He just made him the best thathe could, And so that was a
pretty good example to me.
(24:45):
And then I just haven't beenhappy with myself when I have
gotten angry or upset, you knowAnd it's definitely happened
Lost my temper or something, Andthen I just realized that that
didn't help the situation and itdidn't help my life And I just
haven't seen a lot ofopportunities or experiences
where it has.
(25:06):
And so I just choose to try andmake the best of it And I tell
at least the crew and my kidsthat sometimes you've got to
make a decision, right or wrong,and make the best of it with
whatever the decision was.
Brent Harding (25:22):
Yeah, i think that's great.
I think sometimes we probablyoverthink it, like there's got
to be some complicated formulato be happy all the time.
But I think you said it well,it's a simple decision.
You choose to make the best ofit and carry on, and sometimes
don't overthink it.
Chief, you're kind of the sameway.
It's just like always.
(25:43):
You know tons of energy And howdid you kind of maintain that
throughout your career and howdid that, how was that bled over
into your retirement?
Doug Fullmer (25:51):
I don't think I was happy unless I was around
Andy.
Jason Gibbons (25:55):
Oh, this guy Smiling all the time, i think
it's generational too, right?
Doug Fullmer (26:00):
If you go to Andy's house, one of his kids
has a great big smiley facepainted on one of the walls.
It's like six feet in diameter,and Andy was always I call them
EB the energizer bunny, becausehe just was one of those people
you just wanted to be around.
Chief Humphries had a quotethat I remembered and he said
you know, you choose to be happyEvery morning.
(26:20):
I get up in the morning and Ichoose to be happy or I choose
not to be happy, and it's work.
I think it's a challenge forall of us And those people that
are good at it doesn't just comenaturally.
I think that they have to workat it too.
Everybody's in a storm, comingout of a storm or going into a
storm, and it's how you chooseto deal with those storms really
(26:42):
is.
You know whether or not peoplewant to spend time around with
you, but who doesn't want towork on a shift or work on a
crew with Andy?
Shock, right, that's just it'sexceptional.
Brent Harding (26:51):
The waiting list is long.
Doug Fullmer (26:52):
I can vouch for that It is very, very true, and
his kids are very much like thattoo.
But you know, i look at thefire department today and it
starts at the bottom and movesup.
and it starts at the top and itmoves down.
And there are reasons, plentyof reasons, for us to be
honoured and to be mad.
There's things that will bedemoralizing to us and we can
(27:17):
all sit around and we can justbe pissed off about it and yell,
and or we can choose to try andmake a change and be the
difference, right?
I guess I feel fortunate that Igot to work at Logan Fire
Department.
So for me it was a choice.
I was going to be a contributor, no matter where I was.
I swore long ago that I was notgoing to be the lazy
(27:39):
firefighter and retire fromthere fat, lazy and and just old
and honoured.
I just didn't want to be thatperson.
And so every day you just puton your game face and say I'm
going to come to work and I'mgoing to earn every penny that I
get paid.
And yeah, maybe there's otherdepartments that get paid more,
but there's some serious benefitabout working at Logan Fire
(28:00):
Department.
So for me, i I wanted to be acontributor.
Brent Harding (28:06):
You know I'll never forget what you told me
when I first started and I justsaid it repeatedly in trainings
and stuff.
But you know that there's nogrowth in the comfort zone, no
comfort in the growth zone.
Tell us a little bit aboutretirement.
Does that still apply toretirement?
Is there still growth inretirement, or is it finally
time to just accept the comfortzone?
Doug Fullmer (28:27):
No, there is no comfort in retiring and you'll
continue to just find yourselfin uncomfortable positions when
I think we're just beingstretched right.
We all have something that youcan offer, whether it's at home,
whether it's in another job,whether it's another profession.
I think that all of us walkaway from there with having some
(28:48):
experience that the rest of theworld can't appreciate, right,
and I do say that it's.
It's like the taste of salt.
You can try and explain it tosomeone else, but unless they've
actually experienced it, theythey can't understand what it's
like to work there.
But you have.
You have things that you can doin your community.
You have plenty of things thatyou can contribute, even even
today.
(29:08):
You know, i had a guy come tomy house who's been a previous
city councilman and I know itsounds stupid, but I'm like
maybe that's something I shouldpursue, is maybe looking to be
in a city councilman, because Ihave some understanding about
the needs of a community now,having worked at Logan Fire
Department.
So I don't know if thatanswered your question, but it's
very uncomfortable retiring.
(29:29):
Just keep stretching yourselfand try and find some place
where you can give back.
Brent Harding (29:35):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know there's plenty ofgrowth in retirement.
You don't stagnate.
You know there's plenty ofopportunities for growth, which
is why it's uncomfortable, right.
Yeah, there's plenty ofopportunities to try things and
continue, just as we, as we kindof wrap up here.
You know, i'd be interested tohear kind of everybody's take,
you know, for those that areretired that are tuning in on
(29:56):
this podcast series, kind ofwhat's, what's one thing you
wish every Logan retiree knew.
You know whether you know comingfrom from the three of you
that've been with Logan for along time.
But if, if you could send onemessage to every Logan retiree
kind of, what would that messagebe?
Andy Shock (30:15):
Well, i think maybe, maybe they forgot Because Doug
mentioned that you know, passingout those business cards, you
know you kind of don't want tobe forgotten.
You still want to be part ofthe team, even though even
though it's definitely adifferent situation But most of
most of the guys that have leftstill get talked about quite a
bit.
Usually it's when they've donesomething really dumb.
So so you're still remembered,maybe not in the capacity that
(30:40):
you hope for or you desire for.
And Logan Fire you know, thosethat retired at Logan Fire made
a huge difference in thedepartment and the way that it's
ran and the good end, the bad,but mostly a way for the good
and paved the way to make it wayeasier and better for us that
(31:02):
are still here, and so weappreciate it.
You know, we appreciate it.
All the, all the things thatyou taught and the things that
you stood for and the examplesthat you were.
I mean, just today we weretalking about Bob Goodwin.
Paulson brought him up, saidyou know, when we're driving in
the engine we need to drive downMain Street, be proud and be on
(31:22):
parade and let the little kidsknow that.
You know that we're out hereand we care about him, and so
how long has Bob been gone?
it's gotta be six years, six,seven years yeah yeah, you know
you laid some, some reallystrong foundations that all of
us still use a lot, you know Imean.
Examples for me were like BobVance, like rolling up hoses, a
(31:44):
cap, and you know, alwaysremember that he was always
cleaning the station, cleaningthe bay.
He was always busy doing stuffand gave me some great, some
great teaching lessons.
I don't know the guys that whenyou leave you may think that
you've totally separated, butyou're still very much a part of
what we do, our everyday lifeand and we'll be likely for a
(32:04):
long time so yeah, i think yousaid not great and they're
missed.
Jason Gibbons (32:11):
Right for me watching, watching my friends
retire, the guys that I'veworked with, everything else
it's.
It's rough like those, thoseretirement parties, everything,
even the weeks leading, leadingup to it.
My wife, she asked me she'slike so are you going to morning
again?
Brent Harding (32:26):
is this gonna be like?
Jason Gibbons (32:27):
you're going through the different stages of
grief time because it's so hardto to spend that much time with
somebody and then know that atleast the the work portion of
that's coming to an end.
Right, those guys, they're,they're your family.
You guys are missed pretty much, pretty much every day.
That at the station, right, wetaught so many people so many
(32:51):
things over the course of time.
That it's.
It can't be replaced.
It's invaluable, right, the?
I guess the thing I think aboutis am I?
my meeting?
the expectation is one of thesenior guys now, am I?
am I passing those things alongthe way that they were passed
on to me?
Doug Fullmer (33:07):
so thank you for the example well, first the guys
, girls still on duty, stilldoing the gig.
Keep your head on a swivel.
The last thing I ever want tohear is that one of our people
have a career ending injury,something that you know was
preventable.
If it's predictable, it'spreventable, and I think
(33:29):
sometimes we do have thatpersona that we are invincible,
and so I just hope that nothingever happens there for the
person that's retired man, evenlike this.
Next Monday I'm gonna go tolunch with John Cox, so I love
being connected, and if you'reout there and you're kind of
wondering how can I getconnected, man, start with me.
(33:49):
Give me a call.
I would love to do somethinglike that, but you're missed,
you're loved.
We appreciate everything thatyou did to build Logan fire and
as a contributor, and you'restill part of the family.
I still feel connected.
I do, even though you know myskill set isn't what it was.
Brent Harding (34:08):
I'm still family and I'll always treasure my time
at Logan fire, for sure thankyou, i think I was all very well
said and and I have nothing tospeak to that other than I'm on
the other end of the kitchentable just hearing all the
stories and you know, i think,as the new guys listen to those
stories, you can't help butthink man, i hope one day I'm
(34:29):
being talked about like that oron the kitchen table.
So what a cool, cool thing youknow.
And so what I like to say aboutgreat examples have led the way
before us and and what mantleyou're creating for the new guys
have to carry on one day.
But I think, just as kind ofour final shout out, i just want
to remind everybody that thepeer support team with Logan
(34:50):
fires not just for the currentmembers, that there's lots in
the works and currentlyhappening for retirees,
including the clinicians.
You know the clinicians.
I think that's one of thebiggest steps we've had them
enable to get those cliniciansfor retirees and their family
members at no cost.
You know any clinician you want.
We have a bunch on the websitethat are vetted and have done
(35:13):
ride-alongs and so they're alittle familiar with the culture
at Logan fire.
But if you have somebody elsethat you want to go see, then
there's a way for you to do thatand it's 100% private.
So if there's any questionsabout any, that hope anybody
would reach out and and anymember of the peer support team
is ready to help you make thatappointment or, i hope the
websites good enough that youcan.
(35:33):
If you want to make thatappointment on your own without
letting anybody know that, youcan do that too.
But lots of great resourceshere to connect to and and reach
out at any time.
So thank you everyone for beinghere today.
Thank you for your words.
This is going to go a long way,so I appreciate it thanks Brent
.
Welcome everyone to our ninth episode of our
firefighters podcast.
So thanks everybody for beinghere, especially chief fulmer.
You know how busy the guy youwere before retirement.
It seems like your busyness hastripled century retirement.
It's all good.
It's a pretty good time to bewith us today.
Let's just start.
For those that don't, that maybe tuned in on this, that aren't
(00:20):
as familiar with the legendStatus that you have, give us a
little bit of background on you,little Intro to your fire
career, kind of look briefresume and tell us about you.
Doug Fullmer (00:31):
Okay, doug fulmer, i married, have four children
that are all married, and we'veraised all of our children here
in Cache Valley.
I was, fortunate enough, getmarried in 91 and Then went to
school at Utah State for quite awhile five years couldn't
really figure out what I wantedto be and just ended up taking
an EMT class which started medown the road of Getting some
(00:55):
exposure with Logan firedepartment and even then I
didn't have any desire to do thejob.
But I started with Logan fire95 work there for 26 years and
it's good ride.
Brent Harding (01:06):
Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
And especially, you know, itseems like in today's world guys
are switching agencies every somany years with stay with one
Agency for your whole career.
What kept you at Logan?
you know, because I'm surethere was a lot of changes
during your 26 year career well,that's.
Doug Fullmer (01:24):
Yeah, i think there's probably a lot of stuff
there that probably was part ofthe equation, but I grew up here
, i've lived in Providence andNibley and North Logan, logan,
and so I just have known a lotof people.
It's it means a lot to be ableto serve your own community.
For me, to stay at Logan firewas Super rewarding.
Super rewarding just to be ableto build Relationships with so
(01:45):
many people in the community andnetwork.
Yeah, i don't think you wouldhave ever saw me leave.
Brent Harding (01:49):
Yeah well, that's pretty awesome.
Tell me a little bit aboutwhere Where Logan fire was when
you started and we were talkingabout a little bit at you know,
before we started here But thestarting pay was 21,000 when you
started and just give us anidea of just how much things
have changed over that course ofyour career.
Doug Fullmer (02:09):
I'll butcher this but John Fulmer tells a really
funny story about a fire thathappened at McDonald's Right on
700 North Main.
Have you guys ever heard himtell that story?
I don't think so.
Okay, look, before You leaveLogan fire.
Before he leaves, you have tograb John Fulmer and have him
tell you this story, because itreally tells you the total
(02:30):
contrast between where you guysare today and what we were then.
But You know, it comes down toeducation and experience, and
those people that ran Logan fireor Were exceptional at the time
they've.
You know, i believe that westand on the shoulders of giants
And so we are the beneficiariesof everything that they put
into the organization back then.
(02:52):
However, when they had thisfire as a car fire at McDonald's
, this car pulled up underneaththe carport and you know, deaver
she's Deaver jumped in hisvehicle and he went there and he
pushed this vehicle out fromunderneath the carport with just
his civilian clothes on and theengine pulled up and, of course
(03:13):
, it was a fuel line that hadbroke.
So you've got fuel that'sspilling onto the ground and
it's going downhill because it'skind of a you know, Got a grade
to the parking lot and Now yougot water and so the fuel is
moving faster across the parkinglot.
Now It's going towards the fireengine and they're trying to
move the hose line to get itthere And it knocks one of our
(03:33):
firefighters on his butt, breaksthe regulator.
So now you got a regulatorthat's spraying everywhere.
You've got a firefighter that'sdown fuel moving towards the
fire engine.
It's going underneath the fireengine and the engineer on the
other side can't see it.
I mean, it was bad news bears,right.
And Now you just look at theODP and the things that chief
Hanna gets done and many otherpeople along the way.
(03:54):
Right, it's not just one person, it's a combination of
everybody putting an effort intomaking such an exceptional
Organization.
Logan fires like the bomb.
Brent Harding (04:04):
Yeah that could go off at any second, no, just
yeah.
No, i think that that is coolAnd, you know, i think that's
one of the things over a courseof a career that can be hard for
people to see all that change,right, but it just seems like
you're always at the forefrontof embracing it and pushing it
forward and and a huge part ofour Organization and getting us
to that next level as well, andso I think that's pretty awesome
(04:25):
.
Andy, let's get let's get alittle intro on you real quick
and then just tell us a littlebit about you, how your career
Started and and a little bit ofyour resume and career history.
Andy Shock (04:35):
Well, i mean, i went through UVU if they're fire
Academy there.
I've been married.
We had My first boy, logan.
He was like six months old when, i think Logan fire Just ran
out of candidates, so theyaccepted my resume and Yeah,
(04:55):
that was 19 years ago and we hadthree other children while
we're here in the in the Valleyand So I've just been trying to
keep up with guys like Doug,really, you know and the watch
it's getting deep and Andyounger guys like like Gibbons
and like you, Brent.
I mean you just bring so muchIt's it's hard to keep up with
it all but yeah, yeah, no, i youknow we all have.
Brent Harding (05:19):
We could go on for hours on stories, But I got
somebody on both of you guysthat throughout my career, both
mostly as a volunteer up to thispoint, but then the last course
, last couple years with Logan.
But and he tells us a littlebit about because same thing
with chief formers you know oneagency for you as well.
You know, i think is this kindof a cool thing Is there?
You know something that thatplayed a role in that for you.
Andy Shock (05:42):
Well, you know, i'll be honest, it's pretty tough to
see friends.
You know your brothers go toother departments and and I
think there are.
Each department has its prosAnd also the cons, like, like,
it depends on what is going tobe the best for you and for your
family.
So some departments offer quitea bit more than Logan has, the
(06:03):
Logan just isn't going to beable to provide right And.
But also Logan provides thingsthat other departments just
wouldn't be able to, and And sofor my family and the things
that That Jesse, my wife and Ithought were the most important,
then we made it work here andit really it's been really good.
Jason Gibbons (06:24):
So, yeah, yeah, you, you also had kind of a
unique Experience like yourhouse caught on fire, mm-hmm.
You responded to it from thefire station.
right, you were on.
Brent Harding (06:34):
Yeah, yeah, and that didn't scare you away from.
Logan fire.
Andy Shock (06:38):
Well, I was really grateful for Logan and I was
really grateful for ChiefPeterson at the time and Chief
Maker, because Chief Petersongave me right out there We live
out west of Cache Valley and notin our area, it's not in in
Logan City Fire Department zoneand so Chief Peterson gave me
right out and then, while wewere going out, chief Maker got
(06:59):
on the radio and asked ChiefOlson and Menden if we could, if
Logan could send some moreresources to help, and I was
really grateful, you know, forthat support And really that
helped a lot with putting outthe fire in that.
And then after just a lot ofhelp from everybody here And I
(07:22):
talk about that conservatively,because everybody has challenges
And that one was a big one AndI think it was awesome that
people came and helped.
But I feel like other peoplehave challenges that don't maybe
get that same result and theyfeel a little left out.
(07:43):
But that one was just a reallybig one.
It was easy to see and there'slots of ways to help And we had
a ton of help from the firedepartment and from others.
But it wasn't just because ofme or anything like that, it was
just out of the circumstance Alot of people might feel like
they're having challenges andaren't getting the help.
(08:04):
But maybe it's just not as easyto see Or it's a little harder
to help.
Brent Harding (08:09):
I think that's a perfect segue into what we're
talking about today, because Ithink as firefighters we are
helpers And so when you see thatneed and it's a very visual,
clear thing that needs to bedone, you're going to get 20, 30
, 40 plus guys that are justanxious to help.
But in those moments where youaren't seen, after you retire,
(08:31):
when you're not at the stationanymore, i think and the fire
service thing, that's wheresometimes we seem to fall a
little bit short, the guys wearen't seeing every day, just
like you said, it's not seen,not that no one's unwilling to
help, it's just not the bighouse on fire.
That's the obvious.
Let's go do this.
They may not know.
Jason Gibbons (08:50):
They may not know .
Honestly, for myself that'sbeen one of the reasons over the
course of time.
Everybody thinks about otherdepartments or what things might
be one way or the other, butfor me that was one example.
So that was quite a while ago.
It was a long time ago And I'vealways thought back and it's
(09:13):
like well, i do remember whenAndy's house caught on fire.
It was always something thatstuck out And it wasn't just
that.
We've had a natural gasexplosion in another one of our
members' families' houses.
That was a propane explosion.
But there's been multiplethings over the course of time
when somebody's needed help thatpeople have always kind of
stepped up or have to prevent.
(09:33):
If I had that emergency in myhouse or something similar, i
was going to be able to getthere.
Doug Fullmer (09:38):
Couple of things that jumped out to me about that
was none of us want to go towork and just really sit there
all day.
Right, we want to go to work,but typically the things that we
go and respond on are somebodyelse's worst day right.
And if I remember the storyright, andy Brian Holbrook said
something beginning of the shift.
He said man, we need a goodworking fire today.
Brent Harding (10:02):
Bless you, Brian.
Doug Fullmer (10:03):
But Holbrook said we need a good worker today.
And then he ended up respondingon his own house.
Weren't you the first nozzle inthe door?
It was a good worker too.
It was a good fire right.
Andy Shock (10:15):
He had vented through the roof And I was about
to kick the door in And ChiefPeterson was like don't you have
a key to your house?
Jason Gibbons (10:21):
I'm like I don't, i don't.
Andy Shock (10:24):
So we busted the side window, which was a good
idea, but yeah.
Doug Fullmer (10:30):
I'm really glad that it wasn't the plumber,
though, that caught it on fire.
Andy Shock (10:33):
That would have been a bad day.
Yeah, that was interesting too,because a lot of people from
the department helped work on it, And so all of them called and
was like so what was it?
Was it my fault?
But it was my fault, yeah, Youknow what, though, andy?
Doug Fullmer (10:46):
I'll never forget how you were able to smile
through that all, and it wasn'ta fake smile, right?
Andy was just laughing and justsaying it's just a house, all
my families here, my belongingsare not that important.
It's my family that's mostimportant, and I think sometimes
we do get a little calloused.
Right, we're there.
We become very robotic, we pullup, we do our job And we kick
(11:10):
crap out of it, and thensometimes forget that that's
somebody else's worst day, idon't know.
Yeah.
Brent Harding (11:18):
Well, and I think both of you have been shining
examples of that positivity andmaintaining that throughout the
workplace, and sometimes itseems like those are the people
that probably need the extrasupport the most, but they're
always giving it out and beingthe most positive And, by the
way, it goes a long way for guys.
Doug, tell us a couple ofthings about your career that
(11:41):
helped you have a we called ityesterday with Chief Hanson just
kind of an on top retirement.
Retire while you're on top,things are good, not a boot out
the door kind of scenario, butjust to get to that point where
you can retire at the top ofyour game.
Doug Fullmer (11:59):
I don't know that.
I would say I was on top of mygame.
I think you get out ofparamedic school and you
definitely feel like you're ontop of your game And you lose
those skills if you're not usingthem.
And so, as far as being aparamedic, i felt like I was a
bucket of rust by the time Ileft.
But I wanted to leave Loganwhile I still loved it.
I wanted to leave when peoplestill had some shadow of respect
(12:22):
for you and that you were ofvalue, and so that's a tough
spot to try and figure out wherethat is.
Because we know that there havebeen people who have left, and
understandably so.
They left on a really sour noteAnd we haven't seen them for a
long time, haven't seen them ata Christmas party, haven't seen
them come to any of ourget-togethers, and that's sad.
(12:43):
That's not what we want to have.
We want to have them leave on agood note, and for me, i think
it was about just trying to findbalance.
Find the balance of how muchtime and energy do I put into
work, how much time do I havefor me And how much time do I
have for my family And then anyother things that come along
with it, because you all knowthat you can put 110 hours
(13:08):
easily into that place a week,and to what benefit?
right, there's plenty of peoplethat are there to work.
But it's just about trying tofind the balance, and I felt
like I had a good balance.
Brent Harding (13:23):
Yeah, and did you have a plan leading up to it,
or was it week by week?
Doug Fullmer (13:28):
No, i think anybody who's looking to retire
you should really be spendingsome time with a URS.
Have that advisor call you up,spend some time.
I've had him come to my home,i've gone to.
They've had meetings whereyou've had school teachers and
judges and everybody cometogether.
They used to anyways.
They've had quarterly meetings.
(13:49):
It was just wise, right.
You're just forecasting.
It's the same thing we do everyday.
We come to work, we prepare forthe unknown, and that's what it
is.
You're preparing for theunknown, and it would be sad for
you to just quit one day andyou hadn't prepared and know how
does the URS work, how do theypay you And what will be your
benefits?
What will be your benefits ifyou die to your wife?
One, one one.
(14:10):
So I did that.
I just did my homework andtried to make that work.
I was fortunate enough, though,to be able to go to work the
very next week and do somethingthat I've had a lot of passion
doing, and it wasn't as hard onmy body as being a firefighter,
and so that's a tough segue toleave to go to do something else
that's going to keep yourattention.
Brent Harding (14:32):
Yeah, yeah, and tell us a little more about that
, because I think you know, atleast from some of the things
we've studied out, is that oneimportant part of retirement is
finding something to keep youryou know, not just to keep you
busy, but to you know somethingthat gives you purpose,
something that you can kind ofgive your heart to again, that,
(14:52):
like I think you said a well,that isn't maybe as hard on you
as shift work with firefighting,but you know to go to
retirement and have somethingelse that gives you purpose and
something to look forward to.
How much, i mean, has thatplayed a role in your?
Jason Gibbons (15:06):
retirement.
So we could, we could call itfilling the, the gap or the hole
left behind.
Doug Fullmer (15:12):
And it is.
It's a very real, it's a hugehole, brent.
I've been kind of taken back byit.
So you know, this week Iwondered if people were worried
about me because I've had thisopportunity to meet with the
four of you and Paul downstairs,and I've had Haas and I've had
Neil come to my house this weekand it's been super.
But it's a really big void.
(15:35):
It's almost like moving toanother country sometimes
because you just don't connectand then you hear sirens and you
just you, you just want to jumpright, you want to go and do.
I don't?
I don't know.
I've felt fortunate in thethings that I've been able to do
since my retirement.
I tease and say it's not reallybeen a retirement because I'm
still putting in 40 hours a weekdoing something different.
(15:55):
But I heard a statistic and Ishould really check this out and
vet it out to see if it'saccurate, but I can believe it
and that is that they say thatfirefighter, paramedic retires
and they change job five timeswithin five years after that,
because they're always lookingfor that pot of gold at the end
of the rainbow that you justcan't, you can't replicate.
Brent Harding (16:16):
Did that surprise you more than you thought it
would.
I mean because we talk about ita lot, but then, when the
moment it actually hits, youknow just yep, it's, it's very
real, right, i?
Doug Fullmer (16:26):
I try to reach out to people that have retired,
but somebody that has been sogood has been Jason Gibbons.
He'll call randomly How youdoing today With no agenda,
right Just to talk and justchecking on me, and that's huge.
That just means a lot.
It means, you know, i, i, ilaughed.
I took all of my business cards, right, had tons of business
(16:46):
cards and when I left I washiding them everywhere because I
was just teasing.
I don't want anybody to forgetme, right, but there is, there's
a disconnect there that youjust can't explain, but it's
very palpable.
My agenda was always to find outwhat the fish were biting every
single time I wish I could fishas much as you do.
Jason Gibbons (17:06):
It was it was always to find out what the fish
were biting.
Brent Harding (17:09):
And one thing I think different ways to cope
with that disconnect or thathole, that void.
I mean there's better ways thanother And I think you know
there's certainly some negativepaths guys can take to try to to
deal with that.
What are some positive thingsthat you've done to deal with
that?
And if you're okay talkingabout it I know you mentioned
earlier you've been meeting withJody.
Andy Shock (17:27):
Yeah.
Brent Harding (17:28):
Maybe talk about that experience and what it's
like meeting with the clinicianas a retiree and and just why
that's been important to you.
Doug Fullmer (17:35):
So it's always good to have something that
someone else needs, and being aplumber seems like everybody
needs something.
So they still just give me acall and ask for some input.
And I've been fortunate enoughto spend the last five months at
Chief Hannig's house and justdoing his remodel and and always
playing catch up, which meansI'll stop into the station to
talk to him about stuff and geta rub shoulders with everybody.
(17:57):
But it's two way street, right.
You want everybody from thedepartment to reach out to you,
but you got to reach back tothem as well.
And sometimes we kind of feellike, you know, we've just been
turned out to pastor and we'reof no value.
But I always loved that oneguys would come into this
station.
Lynn Naylor was so good aboutthat.
He would just come in regularlyjust to come and say hi And I.
(18:19):
You know those are times youjust want to drop what you're
doing.
Troy Parker said one time Iwould I'd love to come back to
Logan fire.
I feel like I could just jumpright back into the seat and do
the exact same thing.
I just feel like I could justdo it right now.
But just staying connected witheverybody, just a simple text.
That that's super.
(18:40):
As far as meeting with theclinician, i probably needed to
meet with a clinician evenduring my career.
Right There's, there were sometough, tough stuff that we've
all had to see And you justcan't ring that.
I just don't know how that wecould do it on our own.
We want to be that guy thatjust says I can and I can chuck
(19:01):
this and it just doesn't work.
That.
That's a profession thatthey're skilled in, and Jody is
exceptional.
I didn't think she was going tobe a good fit for me at first.
Right, when I walked into theroom and met with her, she was
just loud and obnoxious.
I'm like, oh my gosh, we arenot going to be a good match.
She tells a story and I won'tdivulge who it was, but if
(19:23):
anybody's watching this they'llknow who I'm talking about, if,
if they watch it.
But she said one of our guysshowed up there and everybody
had been teasing him, tellinghim that if you go and meet with
her you have to lay down, youknow, just like you're meeting
with Sigmund Freud.
And so he walked into the roomand she said he stood there for
like five minutes trying todecide how to lay down on the
couch, so he could start talkingabout his child.
(19:46):
But she's been really good And Ieven met with her just this
last week.
I'd probably go there aboutonce every six weeks, every two
months, and sometimes it's justto help relief stress or anxiety
.
She said she has a good take onfiremen and military and
policemen and medics that weredopamine addicts, whether we
(20:09):
know it or not, and we need thatdopamine fix.
And then all of a sudden whenyou retire, you don't get that
anymore.
It causes a vacuum.
Trying to figure out how tofill it is a challenge.
Brent Harding (20:23):
I think that's so great for you to be able to
talk about that and share that,because I'm sure there's guys
that maybe have thought about it.
But it's so much easier if youknow other people are doing it
too And I think even now withguys in their career.
I feel like when we initiallystarted bringing clinicians in,
there was a little bit ofuneasiness maybe, but now I
think, a couple of years into it, and it just seems like it's
(20:44):
more of the norm.
It's going to, it's every day,it's becoming more and more the
norm that it's.
To check in with a clinician isnot probably what people think
it is.
It's just a good way to checkin.
And I'm interested in yourthoughts here because you know,
as you claim which we know isn'ttrue but you're claiming your
crew is kicking you out the door.
Here you're coming up close toyour 20.
(21:06):
What are some of the thoughtsyou've had as you're approaching
at least that stage?
You know I know a lot of guysstay longer, but when that
starts becoming a reality, whatare some of the thoughts and
feelings that are coming through?
Well, just to be clear.
Andy Shock (21:22):
I got one to 10 more years.
I'm not doing a day over 10.
You know, i'm really curious tosee what, because I have an
idea, an expectation of whatit'll be like.
But like Doug working, you know, i'll be doing something
another career, not likely tofill the void or be similar to
(21:42):
this, to this job.
But yeah, i'm interested to see, to see how it is for me.
You know, because in my mind Isay, yeah, i'm going to be just
fine, right, no big deal.
But but then the reality of isit may not be you know what I'm
thinking, but I've got some,some what I consider good
friends that have retired, likeDoug and and Scott and Troy, and
(22:06):
in and of those three, all ofthem have dealt with it a little
bit different.
So I think it's a little bitdifferent for for everybody, and
sometimes it's it's kind ofwhat what?
what you make of it like a lotof life.
I think you know some some guysthat have stayed at Logan fire
instead of going to other placeswere maybe not as happy and
(22:29):
left a little grumpy or whatever, but I'm not sure that they
would have left any otherdepartment any different, right,
just because of of what we,what we tell ourselves, the
storylines that we giveourselves and kind of the
attitudes that we choose tochoose to have.
But so I hope that it'll beawesome, you know, and I can be
(22:51):
a fun grandpa And I mean thoseare the things that I look
forward to, but but I don't know, i might just like be in Jody's
office every day trying to makeit to life, but I am very
grateful that we have theresources to be able to go and
see clinicians or, you know, toget that just help or boost or
(23:13):
whatever.
Brent Harding (23:13):
So yeah, i kind of want to, because we talked
again when we were speaking withBrady to just how much attitude
plays a role in not just yourcareer, but how much that bleeds
over into retirement too.
You know, when you develop apattern and a habit of a
positive attitude, it just seemslike you know it's much easier
(23:35):
for that to carry over intoretirement than to maybe be a
little bit more grumpythroughout your career and then
to think something's magicallygoing to change when you retire,
you know.
And so, captain Shock Tussle,how do you maintain that?
I'm smiling, smiling all thetime, just smiling all the time,
and I don't think anybody inthe history of Logan fire would
(23:57):
ever peg you as a grumpy person,not even like.
I can't even have one memory ofever seeing you a little bit
grumpy.
Andy Shock (24:03):
Oh, that's just people that don't know me that
good.
You know I was very blessedwith awesome parents and family
And you know they're like.
My mom and dad are pretty greatexamples to me, because life
wasn't super easy for them.
They went through some hugechallenges that I didn't really
realize at the time and theyjust always tried to make the
(24:24):
best of the situation that theyhad, And I guess that might have
just rolled over a little bit.
I mean, my dad he had a lot ofopportunities to complain about
life or the way things were, theway things he wanted them.
He just made him the best thathe could, And so that was a
pretty good example to me.
(24:45):
And then I just haven't beenhappy with myself when I have
gotten angry or upset, you knowAnd it's definitely happened
Lost my temper or something, Andthen I just realized that that
didn't help the situation and itdidn't help my life And I just
haven't seen a lot ofopportunities or experiences
where it has.
(25:06):
And so I just choose to try andmake the best of it And I tell
at least the crew and my kidsthat sometimes you've got to
make a decision, right or wrong,and make the best of it with
whatever the decision was.
Brent Harding (25:22):
Yeah, i think that's great.
I think sometimes we probablyoverthink it, like there's got
to be some complicated formulato be happy all the time.
But I think you said it well,it's a simple decision.
You choose to make the best ofit and carry on, and sometimes
don't overthink it.
Chief, you're kind of the sameway.
It's just like always.
(25:43):
You know tons of energy And howdid you kind of maintain that
throughout your career and howdid that, how was that bled over
into your retirement?
Doug Fullmer (25:51):
I don't think I was happy unless I was around
Andy.
Jason Gibbons (25:55):
Oh, this guy Smiling all the time, i think
it's generational too, right?
Doug Fullmer (26:00):
If you go to Andy's house, one of his kids
has a great big smiley facepainted on one of the walls.
It's like six feet in diameter,and Andy was always I call them
EB the energizer bunny, becausehe just was one of those people
you just wanted to be around.
Chief Humphries had a quotethat I remembered and he said
you know, you choose to be happyEvery morning.
(26:20):
I get up in the morning and Ichoose to be happy or I choose
not to be happy, and it's work.
I think it's a challenge forall of us And those people that
are good at it doesn't just comenaturally.
I think that they have to workat it too.
Everybody's in a storm, comingout of a storm or going into a
storm, and it's how you chooseto deal with those storms really
(26:42):
is.
You know whether or not peoplewant to spend time around with
you, but who doesn't want towork on a shift or work on a
crew with Andy?
Shock, right, that's just it'sexceptional.
Brent Harding (26:51):
The waiting list is long.
Doug Fullmer (26:52):
I can vouch for that It is very, very true, and
his kids are very much like thattoo.
But you know, i look at thefire department today and it
starts at the bottom and movesup.
and it starts at the top and itmoves down.
And there are reasons, plentyof reasons, for us to be
honoured and to be mad.
There's things that will bedemoralizing to us and we can
(27:17):
all sit around and we can justbe pissed off about it and yell,
and or we can choose to try andmake a change and be the
difference, right?
I guess I feel fortunate that Igot to work at Logan Fire
Department.
So for me it was a choice.
I was going to be a contributor, no matter where I was.
I swore long ago that I was notgoing to be the lazy
(27:39):
firefighter and retire fromthere fat, lazy and and just old
and honoured.
I just didn't want to be thatperson.
And so every day you just puton your game face and say I'm
going to come to work and I'mgoing to earn every penny that I
get paid.
And yeah, maybe there's otherdepartments that get paid more,
but there's some serious benefitabout working at Logan Fire
(28:00):
Department.
So for me, i I wanted to be acontributor.
Brent Harding (28:06):
You know I'll never forget what you told me
when I first started and I justsaid it repeatedly in trainings
and stuff.
But you know that there's nogrowth in the comfort zone, no
comfort in the growth zone.
Tell us a little bit aboutretirement.
Does that still apply toretirement?
Is there still growth inretirement, or is it finally
time to just accept the comfortzone?
Doug Fullmer (28:27):
No, there is no comfort in retiring and you'll
continue to just find yourselfin uncomfortable positions when
I think we're just beingstretched right.
We all have something that youcan offer, whether it's at home,
whether it's in another job,whether it's another profession.
I think that all of us walkaway from there with having some
(28:48):
experience that the rest of theworld can't appreciate, right,
and I do say that it's.
It's like the taste of salt.
You can try and explain it tosomeone else, but unless they've
actually experienced it, theythey can't understand what it's
like to work there.
But you have.
You have things that you can doin your community.
You have plenty of things thatyou can contribute, even even
today.
(29:08):
You know, i had a guy come tomy house who's been a previous
city councilman and I know itsounds stupid, but I'm like
maybe that's something I shouldpursue, is maybe looking to be
in a city councilman, because Ihave some understanding about
the needs of a community now,having worked at Logan Fire
Department.
So I don't know if thatanswered your question, but it's
very uncomfortable retiring.
(29:29):
Just keep stretching yourselfand try and find some place
where you can give back.
Brent Harding (29:35):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know there's plenty ofgrowth in retirement.
You don't stagnate.
You know there's plenty ofopportunities for growth, which
is why it's uncomfortable, right.
Yeah, there's plenty ofopportunities to try things and
continue, just as we, as we kindof wrap up here.
You know, i'd be interested tohear kind of everybody's take,
you know, for those that areretired that are tuning in on
(29:56):
this podcast series, kind ofwhat's, what's one thing you
wish every Logan retiree knew.
You know whether you know comingfrom from the three of you
that've been with Logan for along time.
But if, if you could send onemessage to every Logan retiree
kind of, what would that messagebe?
Andy Shock (30:15):
Well, i think maybe, maybe they forgot Because Doug
mentioned that you know, passingout those business cards, you
know you kind of don't want tobe forgotten.
You still want to be part ofthe team, even though even
though it's definitely adifferent situation But most of
most of the guys that have leftstill get talked about quite a
bit.
Usually it's when they've donesomething really dumb.
So so you're still remembered,maybe not in the capacity that
(30:40):
you hope for or you desire for.
And Logan Fire you know, thosethat retired at Logan Fire made
a huge difference in thedepartment and the way that it's
ran and the good end, the bad,but mostly a way for the good
and paved the way to make it wayeasier and better for us that
(31:02):
are still here, and so weappreciate it.
You know, we appreciate it.
All the, all the things thatyou taught and the things that
you stood for and the examplesthat you were.
I mean, just today we weretalking about Bob Goodwin.
Paulson brought him up, saidyou know, when we're driving in
the engine we need to drive downMain Street, be proud and be on
(31:22):
parade and let the little kidsknow that.
You know that we're out hereand we care about him, and so
how long has Bob been gone?
it's gotta be six years, six,seven years yeah yeah, you know
you laid some, some reallystrong foundations that all of
us still use a lot, you know Imean.
Examples for me were like BobVance, like rolling up hoses, a
(31:44):
cap, and you know, alwaysremember that he was always
cleaning the station, cleaningthe bay.
He was always busy doing stuffand gave me some great, some
great teaching lessons.
I don't know the guys that whenyou leave you may think that
you've totally separated, butyou're still very much a part of
what we do, our everyday lifeand and we'll be likely for a
(32:04):
long time so yeah, i think yousaid not great and they're
missed.
Jason Gibbons (32:11):
Right for me watching, watching my friends
retire, the guys that I'veworked with, everything else
it's.
It's rough like those, thoseretirement parties, everything,
even the weeks leading, leadingup to it.
My wife, she asked me she'slike so are you going to morning
again?
Brent Harding (32:26):
is this gonna be like?
Jason Gibbons (32:27):
you're going through the different stages of
grief time because it's so hardto to spend that much time with
somebody and then know that atleast the the work portion of
that's coming to an end.
Right, those guys, they're,they're your family.
You guys are missed pretty much, pretty much every day.
That at the station, right, wetaught so many people so many
(32:51):
things over the course of time.
That it's.
It can't be replaced.
It's invaluable, right, the?
I guess the thing I think aboutis am I?
my meeting?
the expectation is one of thesenior guys now, am I?
am I passing those things alongthe way that they were passed
on to me?
Doug Fullmer (33:07):
so thank you for the example well, first the guys
, girls still on duty, stilldoing the gig.
Keep your head on a swivel.
The last thing I ever want tohear is that one of our people
have a career ending injury,something that you know was
preventable.
If it's predictable, it'spreventable, and I think
(33:29):
sometimes we do have thatpersona that we are invincible,
and so I just hope that nothingever happens there for the
person that's retired man, evenlike this.
Next Monday I'm gonna go tolunch with John Cox, so I love
being connected, and if you'reout there and you're kind of
wondering how can I getconnected, man, start with me.
(33:49):
Give me a call.
I would love to do somethinglike that, but you're missed,
you're loved.
We appreciate everything thatyou did to build Logan fire and
as a contributor, and you'restill part of the family.
I still feel connected.
I do, even though you know myskill set isn't what it was.
Brent Harding (34:08):
I'm still family and I'll always treasure my time
at Logan fire, for sure thankyou, i think I was all very well
said and and I have nothing tospeak to that other than I'm on
the other end of the kitchentable just hearing all the
stories and you know, i think,as the new guys listen to those
stories, you can't help butthink man, i hope one day I'm
(34:29):
being talked about like that oron the kitchen table.
So what a cool, cool thing youknow.
And so what I like to say aboutgreat examples have led the way
before us and and what mantleyou're creating for the new guys
have to carry on one day.
But I think, just as kind ofour final shout out, i just want
to remind everybody that thepeer support team with Logan
(34:50):
fires not just for the currentmembers, that there's lots in
the works and currentlyhappening for retirees,
including the clinicians.
You know the clinicians.
I think that's one of thebiggest steps we've had them
enable to get those cliniciansfor retirees and their family
members at no cost.
You know any clinician you want.
We have a bunch on the websitethat are vetted and have done
(35:13):
ride-alongs and so they're alittle familiar with the culture
at Logan fire.
But if you have somebody elsethat you want to go see, then
there's a way for you to do thatand it's 100% private.
So if there's any questionsabout any, that hope anybody
would reach out and and anymember of the peer support team
is ready to help you make thatappointment or, i hope the
websites good enough that youcan.
(35:33):
If you want to make thatappointment on your own without
letting anybody know that, youcan do that too.
But lots of great resourceshere to connect to and and reach
out at any time.
So thank you everyone for beinghere today.
Thank you for your words.
This is going to go a long way,so I appreciate it thanks Brent
.
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