May 9, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode of the First Gen 101 podcast, host Miguel sits down with Joshua Pilgrim, a dedicated school psychologist. He talks about his decision to study psychology, the initial challenges of college life, and how he navigated career decisions. Joshua also provides insightful advice for first-generation college students with anxiety about college selection and future career paths. This episode is brimming with motivation and practical tips for anyone aiming to make a difference through education.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Miguel Sanchez (00:10):
Welcome to First Gen 1 0 1, the podcast
where first generation graduatesshare their stories and career
tips.
I am your host, Miguel Sanchez.
In this episode, Joshua Pilgrimtalks about his passion for
psychology and education.
Listen, as Josh shares insightsabout navigating college, the
(00:31):
importance of breaks and findingyour true calling, let's listen
in.
Welcome to another episode ofFirst Gen 1 1.
Today I have Joshua Pilgrim.
How are you today, Josh?
Joshua Pilgrim (00:44):
I'm good, Miguel.
It's good to see you.
Miguel Sanchez (00:46):
It's good to see you.
Josh and I know each otherprobably since the fourth grade.
And one of the things that Imentioned earlier before we
started the the recordingrecording.
is Josh is one of those peoplewho is still in school, not
because he's been failing, butbecause he's been doing really
(01:07):
well and really improving hiscareer and is going to do
tremendous things in education.
So that being said, Josh, tellme a little bit about your
background.
Joshua Pilgrim (01:18):
Sure.
So Miguel, I grew up in, inSpring Valley, Hillcrest East
Ramapo School District.
And so after Ramapo, I went toDominican College straight out
of high school for four yearsand I majored in psychology.
And then I did my master'sdegree.
So I took two years offactually, after Dominican, after
(01:38):
my bachelor's, took two yearsoff and got my master's.
in school psychology.
I went to Long Island Universityfor that.
And so in total and that was athree year program.
And now I'm a schoolpsychologist.
So in total, that was like sevenyears worth of education.
And I remember when I finishedmy master's in 2017, I said I
was never going back to school,that was it, I'm the first
(02:01):
person in my family to have amaster's degree.
So I was like, that's it.
I've accomplished it all.
And then after my first year asa school psychologist, I
realized that I like the jobnow, but I don't know if when
I'm 45 or 50, if I'm still goingto like that.
And I wanted opportunities.
Or have opportunities rather formore.
(02:22):
And so that's why I decided todo my certification in school
leadership, which is what I'mdoing now.
It took me a couple of years tostart that.
So I had that realization in2018.
I didn't start this programuntil the end of 2022, the
beginning of 2023.
I came from a a good home tosay, mom, dad decent home.
(02:43):
I have an older sister but sheand I are actually 20 years
apart, which I think is going toas we talk more, I can explain
how that kind of impacted my ownnavigation of college and being.
First generation collegestudent.
Miguel Sanchez (02:59):
And what led you to choose psychology as a
major?
Joshua Pilgrim (03:03):
I don't know if you remember, we had a teacher
in Ramapo Mr.
Torres.
And he was the psychologyteacher, and I took his AP
psychology course.
And so after taking that course,I was like, wow, this, I like
this subject.
Like I like the subject morethan any other subject.
And I also had a desire forhelping people.
(03:23):
Mostly I always knew I wanted towork with kids, especially kids
and teenagers.
And so that was how I navigatedand shifted towards majoring in
psychology.
Miguel Sanchez (03:32):
So, Professor Torres if you're listening I
still do remember your class,and as you can hear, it has also
had effects on other studentswhich is one of the great
benefits of being a teacher thatyou can instill interest and a
passion in others.
Going into college, let's getright into that.
How was that dynamic ofnavigating college and also the
(03:54):
relationship with your family?
Joshua Pilgrim (03:55):
It was.
It was a change.
Academically, I think it wasokay.
I was a pretty decent studentacademically.
I think I just had to learn howto study.
And I realized like I was on myown, right?
There's nobody there to wake youup anymore.
There's nobody there to makesure you ate breakfast, lunch
and dinner.
(04:16):
Like a lot of things I had tonavigate.
On my own, I had to figure outwhere my classrooms were which
building was which, right?
Thankfully, I went to Dominican,which is a smaller campus.
But that was.
I think the academic part wasokay.
For me, it was more so thesocial part that was more of the
(04:38):
challenge.
I had to dorm with a bunch ofpeople.
And I had a roommate and I camefrom a home where it was, I was
the only kid in the house.
So It was a big shift, right?
I had to share a bathroom with abunch of guys, right?
That was all a big shift.
I had to hear parties next door,right?
(04:59):
Like on a Thursday night so thesocial aspect was more of the
challenge for me.
And once I learned how tonavigate that helped me to be
more successful.
Miguel Sanchez (05:13):
Did you dorm throughout college or only for a
period?
Joshua Pilgrim (05:17):
I dormed throughout college, all four
years.
Miguel Sanchez (05:19):
At what point did you finally realize, you
know, parties and Thursdaynights, it's just part of
school.
Joshua Pilgrim (05:25):
I honestly think it was my second year.
By my second year, I justrealized This is what it is,
Miguel Sanchez (05:33):
When you started school as a psychology
major, did you know you wantedto go into education?
Did you maybe want to go toclinical paths?
What was that for you?
How did you decide?
Joshua Pilgrim (05:46):
I will say that at the, it took me two years to
go from my bachelor's to mymaster's because at the end of
my senior year of college, I hadlike a conversation with someone
with a family member and theybasically said something like,
Oh if you want to work in aschool, then you're going to
(06:07):
have to deal with the politicsof the school.
And if you're not, if you don'twant to deal with that, then
maybe you shouldn't do that justlike that.
And I got.
I started doubting and I waslike maybe I'm not built out for
this.
And then I was like I didn'treally minor in education.
My minor was actually criminaljustice.
So I was thinking maybe I shouldjust go into forensic psychology
(06:29):
since I have more of thatbackground.
But even in doing that, and Iwas looking at John Jay at that
time.
And even in doing that, I wasn'tsure.
And a friend of mine at theschool had told me, she said,
you don't seem sure about this.
And I was like no, I am sure.
I am sure.
(06:49):
And she's no, you don't seemsure.
And she said, it's okay to takea year off.
You don't have to go straightinto it.
It's okay to take a year off.
And by her telling me that Itook that advice.
And I'm glad I did becauseinstead of wasting money on a
program that I might not haveenjoyed or later on changed my
mind.
(07:10):
And now I got to dish out moremoney.
I just took the year off tofigure it out, which is okay.
It's okay to take that year offand figure it out.
Miguel Sanchez (07:19):
I like what you said about taking a break.
One of the things that Iencourage college graduates, if
you're not sure about thegraduate program, whether it's
an MBA or a JD or a PhD It mightbe helpful to start working so
that you can confirm if that'swhat you want to do.
(07:41):
Something that Josh mentionedthat I thought was also
important is he, it sounds likehe was very excited.
You sounded very excited aboutworking in the school and all
the perks that come with it.
And, but there's more to that.
You have to get that job if youcan or an internship so you can
see, you know, there are theseperks or these benefits, but
(08:04):
there might be also somenegative, so to speak.
And so do you want to do thatfor the rest of your life, the
next 10 years?
So thank you for, for bringingthat up about how important it
is to take breaks.
And so did you start working ina school after graduation?
Joshua Pilgrim (08:20):
Sure.
So after graduation, I I startedworking at St.
Dominic's home.
So it took me six months though.
So right after graduation, I wasstill working in retail, in the
mall, And that was, May.
So yes, so graduation was May of2012.
So by February of 2013, I hadstarted working at ST Dominic's
(08:40):
home, which is in Orangeburg,right by Dominican College.
And it's a social service agencyfor people that don't know.
It's a social service agency,and they have different
departments.
They have forced to care.
They have developmentaldisabilities or O.
P.
W.
D.
They have the department thatdoes the the accountability,
Making sure that everybody isdoing their role.
(09:04):
And if somebody is not doingtheir role in OPWDD or enforcer
care then they provide theservices for that.
And so my job was, like we sayshuffling papers.
So I worked within theaccountability department.
But it was under foster care.
And so basically when kids aredischarged, from foster care,
(09:25):
whether they go back home totheir parents or when they are
adopted, their records wouldcome from the Bronx.
Cause that's where the kids, thefoster care program was in the
Bronx.
The records would come from theBronx to Orangeburg.
And I just had to make sure thatthey went into a storage area.
And so that was mostly my job.
(09:45):
It didn't really pay much.
It was the first job that wasnot retail that I had apply for
that caught me back.
But it provided me with certainexperiences, Working with people
being able to handle differentpersonalities.
I was able to, as I looked, as Iwent through the records of a
(10:08):
lot of these kids there was justthings I was exposed to, Their
educational records were inthere, And so how to file things
away.
People don't realize like thesebasic skills are needed for your
careers, right?
And people think filing issomething that's, Oh, it's just
so easy.
If I told you in my job now, howmany times somebody misfiles a
(10:32):
name.
because they didn't know whichone was the first name, which
one was the last name.
Or a name was spelled wrong, orthey have to go through the
alphabet in their head still.
If I told you how often thathappens, like you just be
amazed.
And so people take somethinglike that's so small, for
granted.
But these were all skills thatlater on helped me, or like I
(10:55):
was able to use in the And soyeah, I did St.
Dominic's Home, and then while Iwas at St.
Dominic's Home, that was when Istarted going to grad school.
And thankfully even though thejob honestly was not, Mind
stimulating.
It allowed me the flexibility togo to graduate school at night
(11:16):
because my job was like a nineto five Monday through Friday,
And then when I started gradschool, there was some days I
was able to come in.
my supervisor actually allowedme to come in at eight o'clock
so I could leave at four or four30 so I could get to school on
time.
And so it allowed me theopportunity and the flexibility
To to pursue my master's degree.
Miguel Sanchez (11:38):
So from there, you pursue your masters and what
did you enroll and what was yourfocus in this area?
Joshua Pilgrim (11:45):
So I enrolled at Long Island university the West
Chester campus.
Long Island university It had acampus in Rockland, which was by
St.
Thomas Aquinas, And then it hadthe second campus, which was at
Purchase university in WestChester.
And so that was where I went,the Purchase university.
Campus because that was the onlycampus that had the school
(12:07):
psychology program.
The Rockland campus didn't havethat and I wasn't traveling all
the way out to Brooklyn for it.
Cause that's where the originalLIU campus is in Brooklyn.
So I went to LIU WestchesterPurchase, SUNY Purchase campus.
And my, the program I did wasschool psychology.
It was a three year program.
(12:29):
So the least amount of time thatyou could do it was three years.
Because you would take twocourses, I believe, in the
spring and fall.
And then two courses in thesummer.
And that was your first year andsecond year.
And then your third year wasyour internship year.
And I think there was twocourses.
You took like an internshipcourse and then another course
(12:49):
the third year.
Miguel Sanchez (12:51):
Did at any point, maybe going through the
coursework, did you realizemaybe this is not for
Joshua Pilgrim (12:57):
I was nervous that it would not be for me?
So when I remember going in tothe program and I remember
praying specifically and I was,I'm a man of faith.
And so I'm praying and I'm like,all right, Lord if this is where
you want me to be you'll justopen doors.
And if this is not where youwant me to be, then you won't
open doors and I'll just figureit out from there.
(13:18):
And so as I went through thecoursework, there was not
anything that did not interestme.
Everything was interesting tome.
Everything was, it was like aconstant spark.
And so I stayed interested inthe subject in the field.
When I got to the field work, soyou have to do 90 hours of field
(13:42):
work, which is only for asemester.
So that's like you go to aschool one day a week.
And then the next semester isyour internship, which is 1200
hours, which you work every dayat the school the whole day.
So for people that might have.
already have a job or have afamily, it's hard to do.
I had people in my program thatworked at night at a hospital.
(14:07):
And then in the daytime, theythey went to their internship
Thankfully I was fortunateenough that I didn't have to do
that.
But when I started my fieldwork,it was all right, because I'm
just shadowing the person.
But when I started theinternship, I was like, all
right, this is it.
If I, this is the moment where Ifind out if I'm made for this or
(14:28):
not.
And I remember thinking it wouldsuck if I get to this point,
which is the last point andrealize I am not made for this.
I hate this.
Because now I've done two yearsof work.
But the reality was, this iswhere I was.
And I was like, you know what?
If I go into this and I don'tlike it, or it's not for me, or
it's worse than I thought, I'llhave to figure it out.
(14:51):
That's just it.
I'll just have to drop out andfigure it out.
But thankfully I went into itand I, I really enjoyed it.
And so one thing I can say,Based on my experience is
especially in education, mostlyin education, working with kids,
you have to enjoy working withkids.
You have to, if you don't enjoyit.
(15:14):
You're not going to like it ifyou're in it for the days off,
you're not going to make itbecause you're mindset and your
heart are just not in the rightplace.
That's just, and that's foranything.
That's for anything.
If I went into forensicpsychology and became a forensic
psychologist, could I have donethat?
Yeah.
Would I have enjoyed it?
(15:35):
Maybe not because I might havereally been meant to be a school
psychologist.
So I might not have enjoyed it.
And so by me not probably notenjoying it, I probably wouldn't
do that well of a job as aforensic psychologist.
And so anything that you gointo, there has to be, I think,
a level of enjoyment.
And there will be things youdon't like about your job.
(15:57):
I don't like that.
I have to write a reportActually, I didn't even know I
had to do that until I got intothe program and took the
assessment course.
And they said, You have to writea report.
And I was like, what?
I hate writing.
I hate writing.
Thankfully for templates, theymake life easier.
But I don't like that part of myjob.
I don't always enjoy having tocall a parent.
(16:18):
I don't always enjoy having totalk to a teacher.
But what I do enjoy about my jobis being able to work with
students and being able to makea difference But as long as You
enjoy the field as a whole.
I think you'll find ways tonavigate that.
Miguel Sanchez (16:37):
says this is a podcast about providing advice.
to first gen students in collegeor high school students who are
thinking about college from aschool psychologist perspective
to the extent that you can sharewhat are some of the things that
are driving the anxiety on thesestudents is it that they can't
(17:01):
get into school the type ofschool what are some things on
the student's mind about thecollege selection process
Joshua Pilgrim (17:11):
I'm glad you asked that.
So last year, and I think Imight have noticed this a lot
more last year with my studentsa lot of the anxiety and it
starts in junior year.
It starts sophomore year.
Sometimes a lot of the anxietyis wanting to get into the big
school, I've had students thatthey want to do big things.
(17:32):
They want to be doctors.
And then go into the medicalfield, be an accountant, right?
And so they're striving for thebig name schools or they're
striving to get into goodschools.
And that's where some of thatanxiety comes from.
And I've had to explain to someof them.
At the end of the day, Thecollege name like yeah, if
(17:52):
you're gonna be a doctor and youwant to go to Harvard or I don't
know other big name medicalschools If you want to go there
then yeah, like I get that butat the end of the day like
college names or college namesAnd it's all about the effort
and the work that you put outinto it, And I've had students
(18:14):
that want to go to these bigname schools for something like
teaching.
And it's you don't need to dothat.
You can go to Dominican or Stag.
You don't have to go toColumbia.
yeah.
and but that's the, that's wherethe, that anxiety comes from.
And it's the students putting alot of pressure on themselves,
thinking that they need to dothis.
And what I'll tell them is youwill go where you are meant to
be.
(18:34):
And it is okay.
Like it is really okay.
If you don't go to like JohnHopkins, it's okay.
You have to have options.
Don't put, I think that's theother thing too, a lot of these
students, they'll put all theeggs in one basket.
So they'll put them all intoNYU, John Hopkins, like that one
college they want to go to.
(18:54):
And then when they don't getaccepted there, or they find out
they can't afford it, nowthey're really upset, or they're
really anxious, they reallydon't know what to because they
put all their eggs in onebasket.
And so I'll tell students, It'sbest to have other options.
And so I'll tell students, so alot of that anxiety comes from
the pressure that students puton themselves.
(19:16):
I think the other anxiety is andI do have students that would be
first gen college students thatgenuinely What to do.
And you see a lot of behaviors.
They'll start failing classes.
And so it's like, why?
Most likely they're scared.
They don't know what the futureholds.
And so they're going throughthat.
(19:36):
And so I think sometimes theanxiety is the pressure kids put
on themselves to go to these bigname schools.
Sometimes anxiety is theuncertainty of life after high
school And Especially for somefirst gen students, they don't
know.
And then on top of that, ifyou're first gen and you're in
special education, it's evenmore complicated and more
(19:59):
challenging if you don't get theproper resources.
And yeah that's where I've seena lot of the anxiety and I've
had to tell students that.
No matter what plans you makefor life after high school some
things will work out and somethings won't work out.
And that's the way life, that'sjust the way life is.
(20:20):
But you have to have a goal.
And so I think for students thatare struggling with, what do I
do after high school?
Do I go to college?
Do I not go to college?
You ask yourself, what is thegoal?
What is your goal?
And then realizing college isn'tFor everyone, right?
That's the other thing too.
College is not for everyone.
(20:40):
We want a lot of students to goto college.
But if I've had students thatwent to both cc tech for to, for
like electrician or plumbing orwhatever, and they enjoyed that,
like they really genuinelyenjoyed it.
And so I'm like, yeah, go forthat.
Go for that.
Because, many of us dished outso much money on college.
The reality that if I had thattype of skill, and I didn't have
(21:04):
to dish out all that money forcollege, I would.
But for other students, I'vetold them go to RCC and try it
out.
But you have to know what youwant to do.
And if you want to be somethinglike a teacher it doesn't matter
if you don't like school or not,you have to go to college for
it.
If you want to be an accountant,it doesn't matter if you like
(21:25):
school or not.
You have to go to school forthat.
You need a bachelor's degree.
You need maybe even a master'sdegree for it.
These are just things that weknow.
And so it's okay.
Once we have that goal, how dowe help them pursue that?
And I think it's teaching themthat there's going to be
uncertainties, and After highschool, and that's okay, but you
(21:48):
have to give yourself theopportunity to explore all these
different options and differentvenues.
Miguel Sanchez (21:56):
Josh, that was great advice, and I can't think
of any other way to end theepisode.
I think some of the things thatyou mentioned that stuck with
me, one is, in your experience,and having a clear why, you
knew.
You wanted to go into psychologybecause you wanted to help
people and then you found aniche where you're helping
(22:17):
people in many ways.
Another thing that you mentionedthat's really important is
Knowing that the job you'regoing into after college is
going to have its plus andminuses and be always open
minded to the different thingsout there.
And then finally, having a cleargoal of why you want to go to
(22:40):
school and that you don't haveto go to a big name it's okay to
go to a different school that'sgood for you.
Josh, Thank you for being heretoday.
Joshua Pilgrim (22:49):
Thanks for having me.
Miguel Sanchez (22:51):
Thank you for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode,like share and subscribe to the
podcast.
Welcome to First Gen 1 0 1, the podcast
where first generation graduatesshare their stories and career
tips.
I am your host, Miguel Sanchez.
In this episode, Joshua Pilgrimtalks about his passion for
psychology and education.
Listen, as Josh shares insightsabout navigating college, the
(00:31):
importance of breaks and findingyour true calling, let's listen
in.
Welcome to another episode ofFirst Gen 1 1.
Today I have Joshua Pilgrim.
How are you today, Josh?
Joshua Pilgrim (00:44):
I'm good, Miguel.
It's good to see you.
Miguel Sanchez (00:46):
It's good to see you.
Josh and I know each otherprobably since the fourth grade.
And one of the things that Imentioned earlier before we
started the the recordingrecording.
is Josh is one of those peoplewho is still in school, not
because he's been failing, butbecause he's been doing really
(01:07):
well and really improving hiscareer and is going to do
tremendous things in education.
So that being said, Josh, tellme a little bit about your
background.
Joshua Pilgrim (01:18):
Sure.
So Miguel, I grew up in, inSpring Valley, Hillcrest East
Ramapo School District.
And so after Ramapo, I went toDominican College straight out
of high school for four yearsand I majored in psychology.
And then I did my master'sdegree.
So I took two years offactually, after Dominican, after
(01:38):
my bachelor's, took two yearsoff and got my master's.
in school psychology.
I went to Long Island Universityfor that.
And so in total and that was athree year program.
And now I'm a schoolpsychologist.
So in total, that was like sevenyears worth of education.
And I remember when I finishedmy master's in 2017, I said I
was never going back to school,that was it, I'm the first
(02:01):
person in my family to have amaster's degree.
So I was like, that's it.
I've accomplished it all.
And then after my first year asa school psychologist, I
realized that I like the jobnow, but I don't know if when
I'm 45 or 50, if I'm still goingto like that.
And I wanted opportunities.
Or have opportunities rather formore.
(02:22):
And so that's why I decided todo my certification in school
leadership, which is what I'mdoing now.
It took me a couple of years tostart that.
So I had that realization in2018.
I didn't start this programuntil the end of 2022, the
beginning of 2023.
I came from a a good home tosay, mom, dad decent home.
(02:43):
I have an older sister but sheand I are actually 20 years
apart, which I think is going toas we talk more, I can explain
how that kind of impacted my ownnavigation of college and being.
First generation collegestudent.
Miguel Sanchez (02:59):
And what led you to choose psychology as a
major?
Joshua Pilgrim (03:03):
I don't know if you remember, we had a teacher
in Ramapo Mr.
Torres.
And he was the psychologyteacher, and I took his AP
psychology course.
And so after taking that course,I was like, wow, this, I like
this subject.
Like I like the subject morethan any other subject.
And I also had a desire forhelping people.
(03:23):
Mostly I always knew I wanted towork with kids, especially kids
and teenagers.
And so that was how I navigatedand shifted towards majoring in
psychology.
Miguel Sanchez (03:32):
So, Professor Torres if you're listening I
still do remember your class,and as you can hear, it has also
had effects on other studentswhich is one of the great
benefits of being a teacher thatyou can instill interest and a
passion in others.
Going into college, let's getright into that.
How was that dynamic ofnavigating college and also the
(03:54):
relationship with your family?
Joshua Pilgrim (03:55):
It was.
It was a change.
Academically, I think it wasokay.
I was a pretty decent studentacademically.
I think I just had to learn howto study.
And I realized like I was on myown, right?
There's nobody there to wake youup anymore.
There's nobody there to makesure you ate breakfast, lunch
and dinner.
(04:16):
Like a lot of things I had tonavigate.
On my own, I had to figure outwhere my classrooms were which
building was which, right?
Thankfully, I went to Dominican,which is a smaller campus.
But that was.
I think the academic part wasokay.
For me, it was more so thesocial part that was more of the
(04:38):
challenge.
I had to dorm with a bunch ofpeople.
And I had a roommate and I camefrom a home where it was, I was
the only kid in the house.
So It was a big shift, right?
I had to share a bathroom with abunch of guys, right?
That was all a big shift.
I had to hear parties next door,right?
(04:59):
Like on a Thursday night so thesocial aspect was more of the
challenge for me.
And once I learned how tonavigate that helped me to be
more successful.
Miguel Sanchez (05:13):
Did you dorm throughout college or only for a
period?
Joshua Pilgrim (05:17):
I dormed throughout college, all four
years.
Miguel Sanchez (05:19):
At what point did you finally realize, you
know, parties and Thursdaynights, it's just part of
school.
Joshua Pilgrim (05:25):
I honestly think it was my second year.
By my second year, I justrealized This is what it is,
Miguel Sanchez (05:33):
When you started school as a psychology
major, did you know you wantedto go into education?
Did you maybe want to go toclinical paths?
What was that for you?
How did you decide?
Joshua Pilgrim (05:46):
I will say that at the, it took me two years to
go from my bachelor's to mymaster's because at the end of
my senior year of college, I hadlike a conversation with someone
with a family member and theybasically said something like,
Oh if you want to work in aschool, then you're going to
(06:07):
have to deal with the politicsof the school.
And if you're not, if you don'twant to deal with that, then
maybe you shouldn't do that justlike that.
And I got.
I started doubting and I waslike maybe I'm not built out for
this.
And then I was like I didn'treally minor in education.
My minor was actually criminaljustice.
So I was thinking maybe I shouldjust go into forensic psychology
(06:29):
since I have more of thatbackground.
But even in doing that, and Iwas looking at John Jay at that
time.
And even in doing that, I wasn'tsure.
And a friend of mine at theschool had told me, she said,
you don't seem sure about this.
And I was like no, I am sure.
I am sure.
(06:49):
And she's no, you don't seemsure.
And she said, it's okay to takea year off.
You don't have to go straightinto it.
It's okay to take a year off.
And by her telling me that Itook that advice.
And I'm glad I did becauseinstead of wasting money on a
program that I might not haveenjoyed or later on changed my
mind.
(07:10):
And now I got to dish out moremoney.
I just took the year off tofigure it out, which is okay.
It's okay to take that year offand figure it out.
Miguel Sanchez (07:19):
I like what you said about taking a break.
One of the things that Iencourage college graduates, if
you're not sure about thegraduate program, whether it's
an MBA or a JD or a PhD It mightbe helpful to start working so
that you can confirm if that'swhat you want to do.
(07:41):
Something that Josh mentionedthat I thought was also
important is he, it sounds likehe was very excited.
You sounded very excited aboutworking in the school and all
the perks that come with it.
And, but there's more to that.
You have to get that job if youcan or an internship so you can
see, you know, there are theseperks or these benefits, but
(08:04):
there might be also somenegative, so to speak.
And so do you want to do thatfor the rest of your life, the
next 10 years?
So thank you for, for bringingthat up about how important it
is to take breaks.
And so did you start working ina school after graduation?
Joshua Pilgrim (08:20):
Sure.
So after graduation, I I startedworking at St.
Dominic's home.
So it took me six months though.
So right after graduation, I wasstill working in retail, in the
mall, And that was, May.
So yes, so graduation was May of2012.
So by February of 2013, I hadstarted working at ST Dominic's
(08:40):
home, which is in Orangeburg,right by Dominican College.
And it's a social service agencyfor people that don't know.
It's a social service agency,and they have different
departments.
They have forced to care.
They have developmentaldisabilities or O.
P.
W.
D.
They have the department thatdoes the the accountability,
Making sure that everybody isdoing their role.
(09:04):
And if somebody is not doingtheir role in OPWDD or enforcer
care then they provide theservices for that.
And so my job was, like we sayshuffling papers.
So I worked within theaccountability department.
But it was under foster care.
And so basically when kids aredischarged, from foster care,
(09:25):
whether they go back home totheir parents or when they are
adopted, their records wouldcome from the Bronx.
Cause that's where the kids, thefoster care program was in the
Bronx.
The records would come from theBronx to Orangeburg.
And I just had to make sure thatthey went into a storage area.
And so that was mostly my job.
(09:45):
It didn't really pay much.
It was the first job that wasnot retail that I had apply for
that caught me back.
But it provided me with certainexperiences, Working with people
being able to handle differentpersonalities.
I was able to, as I looked, as Iwent through the records of a
(10:08):
lot of these kids there was justthings I was exposed to, Their
educational records were inthere, And so how to file things
away.
People don't realize like thesebasic skills are needed for your
careers, right?
And people think filing issomething that's, Oh, it's just
so easy.
If I told you in my job now, howmany times somebody misfiles a
(10:32):
name.
because they didn't know whichone was the first name, which
one was the last name.
Or a name was spelled wrong, orthey have to go through the
alphabet in their head still.
If I told you how often thathappens, like you just be
amazed.
And so people take somethinglike that's so small, for
granted.
But these were all skills thatlater on helped me, or like I
(10:55):
was able to use in the And soyeah, I did St.
Dominic's Home, and then while Iwas at St.
Dominic's Home, that was when Istarted going to grad school.
And thankfully even though thejob honestly was not, Mind
stimulating.
It allowed me the flexibility togo to graduate school at night
(11:16):
because my job was like a nineto five Monday through Friday,
And then when I started gradschool, there was some days I
was able to come in.
my supervisor actually allowedme to come in at eight o'clock
so I could leave at four or four30 so I could get to school on
time.
And so it allowed me theopportunity and the flexibility
To to pursue my master's degree.
Miguel Sanchez (11:38):
So from there, you pursue your masters and what
did you enroll and what was yourfocus in this area?
Joshua Pilgrim (11:45):
So I enrolled at Long Island university the West
Chester campus.
Long Island university It had acampus in Rockland, which was by
St.
Thomas Aquinas, And then it hadthe second campus, which was at
Purchase university in WestChester.
And so that was where I went,the Purchase university.
Campus because that was the onlycampus that had the school
(12:07):
psychology program.
The Rockland campus didn't havethat and I wasn't traveling all
the way out to Brooklyn for it.
Cause that's where the originalLIU campus is in Brooklyn.
So I went to LIU WestchesterPurchase, SUNY Purchase campus.
And my, the program I did wasschool psychology.
It was a three year program.
(12:29):
So the least amount of time thatyou could do it was three years.
Because you would take twocourses, I believe, in the
spring and fall.
And then two courses in thesummer.
And that was your first year andsecond year.
And then your third year wasyour internship year.
And I think there was twocourses.
You took like an internshipcourse and then another course
(12:49):
the third year.
Miguel Sanchez (12:51):
Did at any point, maybe going through the
coursework, did you realizemaybe this is not for
Joshua Pilgrim (12:57):
I was nervous that it would not be for me?
So when I remember going in tothe program and I remember
praying specifically and I was,I'm a man of faith.
And so I'm praying and I'm like,all right, Lord if this is where
you want me to be you'll justopen doors.
And if this is not where youwant me to be, then you won't
open doors and I'll just figureit out from there.
(13:18):
And so as I went through thecoursework, there was not
anything that did not interestme.
Everything was interesting tome.
Everything was, it was like aconstant spark.
And so I stayed interested inthe subject in the field.
When I got to the field work, soyou have to do 90 hours of field
(13:42):
work, which is only for asemester.
So that's like you go to aschool one day a week.
And then the next semester isyour internship, which is 1200
hours, which you work every dayat the school the whole day.
So for people that might have.
already have a job or have afamily, it's hard to do.
I had people in my program thatworked at night at a hospital.
(14:07):
And then in the daytime, theythey went to their internship
Thankfully I was fortunateenough that I didn't have to do
that.
But when I started my fieldwork,it was all right, because I'm
just shadowing the person.
But when I started theinternship, I was like, all
right, this is it.
If I, this is the moment where Ifind out if I'm made for this or
(14:28):
not.
And I remember thinking it wouldsuck if I get to this point,
which is the last point andrealize I am not made for this.
I hate this.
Because now I've done two yearsof work.
But the reality was, this iswhere I was.
And I was like, you know what?
If I go into this and I don'tlike it, or it's not for me, or
it's worse than I thought, I'llhave to figure it out.
(14:51):
That's just it.
I'll just have to drop out andfigure it out.
But thankfully I went into itand I, I really enjoyed it.
And so one thing I can say,Based on my experience is
especially in education, mostlyin education, working with kids,
you have to enjoy working withkids.
You have to, if you don't enjoyit.
(15:14):
You're not going to like it ifyou're in it for the days off,
you're not going to make itbecause you're mindset and your
heart are just not in the rightplace.
That's just, and that's foranything.
That's for anything.
If I went into forensicpsychology and became a forensic
psychologist, could I have donethat?
Yeah.
Would I have enjoyed it?
(15:35):
Maybe not because I might havereally been meant to be a school
psychologist.
So I might not have enjoyed it.
And so by me not probably notenjoying it, I probably wouldn't
do that well of a job as aforensic psychologist.
And so anything that you gointo, there has to be, I think,
a level of enjoyment.
And there will be things youdon't like about your job.
(15:57):
I don't like that.
I have to write a reportActually, I didn't even know I
had to do that until I got intothe program and took the
assessment course.
And they said, You have to writea report.
And I was like, what?
I hate writing.
I hate writing.
Thankfully for templates, theymake life easier.
But I don't like that part of myjob.
I don't always enjoy having tocall a parent.
(16:18):
I don't always enjoy having totalk to a teacher.
But what I do enjoy about my jobis being able to work with
students and being able to makea difference But as long as You
enjoy the field as a whole.
I think you'll find ways tonavigate that.
Miguel Sanchez (16:37):
says this is a podcast about providing advice.
to first gen students in collegeor high school students who are
thinking about college from aschool psychologist perspective
to the extent that you can sharewhat are some of the things that
are driving the anxiety on thesestudents is it that they can't
(17:01):
get into school the type ofschool what are some things on
the student's mind about thecollege selection process
Joshua Pilgrim (17:11):
I'm glad you asked that.
So last year, and I think Imight have noticed this a lot
more last year with my studentsa lot of the anxiety and it
starts in junior year.
It starts sophomore year.
Sometimes a lot of the anxietyis wanting to get into the big
school, I've had students thatthey want to do big things.
(17:32):
They want to be doctors.
And then go into the medicalfield, be an accountant, right?
And so they're striving for thebig name schools or they're
striving to get into goodschools.
And that's where some of thatanxiety comes from.
And I've had to explain to someof them.
At the end of the day, Thecollege name like yeah, if
(17:52):
you're gonna be a doctor and youwant to go to Harvard or I don't
know other big name medicalschools If you want to go there
then yeah, like I get that butat the end of the day like
college names or college namesAnd it's all about the effort
and the work that you put outinto it, And I've had students
(18:14):
that want to go to these bigname schools for something like
teaching.
And it's you don't need to dothat.
You can go to Dominican or Stag.
You don't have to go toColumbia.
yeah.
and but that's the, that's wherethe, that anxiety comes from.
And it's the students putting alot of pressure on themselves,
thinking that they need to dothis.
And what I'll tell them is youwill go where you are meant to
be.
(18:34):
And it is okay.
Like it is really okay.
If you don't go to like JohnHopkins, it's okay.
You have to have options.
Don't put, I think that's theother thing too, a lot of these
students, they'll put all theeggs in one basket.
So they'll put them all intoNYU, John Hopkins, like that one
college they want to go to.
(18:54):
And then when they don't getaccepted there, or they find out
they can't afford it, nowthey're really upset, or they're
really anxious, they reallydon't know what to because they
put all their eggs in onebasket.
And so I'll tell students, It'sbest to have other options.
And so I'll tell students, so alot of that anxiety comes from
the pressure that students puton themselves.
(19:16):
I think the other anxiety is andI do have students that would be
first gen college students thatgenuinely What to do.
And you see a lot of behaviors.
They'll start failing classes.
And so it's like, why?
Most likely they're scared.
They don't know what the futureholds.
And so they're going throughthat.
(19:36):
And so I think sometimes theanxiety is the pressure kids put
on themselves to go to these bigname schools.
Sometimes anxiety is theuncertainty of life after high
school And Especially for somefirst gen students, they don't
know.
And then on top of that, ifyou're first gen and you're in
special education, it's evenmore complicated and more
(19:59):
challenging if you don't get theproper resources.
And yeah that's where I've seena lot of the anxiety and I've
had to tell students that.
No matter what plans you makefor life after high school some
things will work out and somethings won't work out.
And that's the way life, that'sjust the way life is.
(20:20):
But you have to have a goal.
And so I think for students thatare struggling with, what do I
do after high school?
Do I go to college?
Do I not go to college?
You ask yourself, what is thegoal?
What is your goal?
And then realizing college isn'tFor everyone, right?
That's the other thing too.
College is not for everyone.
(20:40):
We want a lot of students to goto college.
But if I've had students thatwent to both cc tech for to, for
like electrician or plumbing orwhatever, and they enjoyed that,
like they really genuinelyenjoyed it.
And so I'm like, yeah, go forthat.
Go for that.
Because, many of us dished outso much money on college.
The reality that if I had thattype of skill, and I didn't have
(21:04):
to dish out all that money forcollege, I would.
But for other students, I'vetold them go to RCC and try it
out.
But you have to know what youwant to do.
And if you want to be somethinglike a teacher it doesn't matter
if you don't like school or not,you have to go to college for
it.
If you want to be an accountant,it doesn't matter if you like
(21:25):
school or not.
You have to go to school forthat.
You need a bachelor's degree.
You need maybe even a master'sdegree for it.
These are just things that weknow.
And so it's okay.
Once we have that goal, how dowe help them pursue that?
And I think it's teaching themthat there's going to be
uncertainties, and After highschool, and that's okay, but you
(21:48):
have to give yourself theopportunity to explore all these
different options and differentvenues.
Miguel Sanchez (21:56):
Josh, that was great advice, and I can't think
of any other way to end theepisode.
I think some of the things thatyou mentioned that stuck with
me, one is, in your experience,and having a clear why, you
knew.
You wanted to go into psychologybecause you wanted to help
people and then you found aniche where you're helping
(22:17):
people in many ways.
Another thing that you mentionedthat's really important is
Knowing that the job you'regoing into after college is
going to have its plus andminuses and be always open
minded to the different thingsout there.
And then finally, having a cleargoal of why you want to go to
(22:40):
school and that you don't haveto go to a big name it's okay to
go to a different school that'sgood for you.
Josh, Thank you for being heretoday.
Joshua Pilgrim (22:49):
Thanks for having me.
Miguel Sanchez (22:51):
Thank you for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode,like share and subscribe to the
podcast.
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