October 24, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of the First Gen 101 podcast, host Miguel welcomes guest Jacquie Carroll. Jacquie shares her inspiring journey from being the daughter of immigrants and a restaurant business owner to becoming a doctoral graduate. She dives into the challenges of navigating the education system as a first-generation student, the importance of mentorship, and the skills needed to learn effectively. Jacquie also offers financial strategies for managing educational costs and building a successful career.
Now, with a rich background in higher education, instructional design, and student success, her passion for making education engaging and effective has led her to create GameKraft. Jacquie is committed to bringing her expertise full circle by integrating fun and learning, ensuring that students not only succeed but thrive in their educational journeys.
GameKraft Website: https://www.gamekraft.us/
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:27 How We Met: A Financial Aid Conference
01:26 First Generation Story
02:35 Navigating Education as a First Gen Student
02:56 Balancing Family and Education
05:56 Learning to Learn: Study Skills and Time Management
12:09 Challenges Faced by First Gen Students
15:30 Financial Hacks for First Gen Students
16:55 Networking and Co-Curricular Opportunities
17:05 Leveraging Dual Credit and Demonstrating Mastery
17:40 Non-Traditional Student Hacks
03:08 Work-Study and Leveraging Scholarships
20:09 Tuition Assistance Programs
22:41 The Importance of Mentorship
25:40 Finding Your First Job
28:26 Biggest Achievement and New Ventures
30:30 Promoting Learning Through Games
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Miguel Sanchez (00:02):
Welcome to another episode of the First Gen
1 0 1 podcast.
Today we have Jacquie Carroll.
Jacquie, welcome.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (00:11):
How are you?
Miguel Sanchez (00:13):
Good.
I'm so excited about thisepisode and we were just talking
about this moments ago before westarted the recording, about how
we met and how this podcast cameto be.
And I'm gonna give our listenerssome context about how we met,
because I think it's gonnareally help us in our
conversation.
So we actually met during or ata financial aid conference in
(00:36):
Chicago about three years ago,and at the time I was planning
on becoming an A FC, anaccredited financial counselor.
And we can talk about that inthis episode, what that means
and how it's helpful.
And at the time, I shared withyou this goal, and you provided
helpful tips.
Then about a year later, youspent some time with me at the
(00:57):
Association for FinancialCounseling and Planning
Education Symposium in newOrleans.
And at the time, you werehelping me understand how to
navigate the certificationprocess, and with your guidance,
I was able to meet therequirements to become an A FC.
So first.
I want to express gratitude foryour guidance in helping me
(01:18):
secure the a FC.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AF (01:19):
You're very welcome.
Miguel.
Miguel Sanchez (01:20):
that's how you became part of my first
generation story.
So with that note, Jacquie,share with me your first
generation story.
Jacquie Carroll, Ed (01:29):
absolutely.
So Miguel, one of the things issometimes, you know, I, I have
my doctorate, I have an AFC andsometimes people look at me and
they don't see me as a first genstudent.
And I was totally first gen,non-traditional, all the way
muddling my way through the cis.
And, I.
started out, actually thedaughter of immigrants.
(01:50):
So I did some of the same thingsthat probably all immigrants can
relate to, which is we were inthe family business, which was a
restaurant business, becausethat's one of the things, if
you're a great cook, you canstart a business anywhere
English was actually my secondlanguage.
Uh, later on I learned Spanish,which is my third language in a
way, but really English was mysecond language.
(02:11):
And so again, that's probablysomething that was very
important because I realized youcan learn.
English, the language, languageacquisition skills rather
quickly as far as the basicinteractions.
Like, Hey, how are you?
I like your shirt and I likeyour dress and all that stuff.
But once you move intoacademics, that's entirely
different.
(02:31):
And really having to learn howto navigate, um, the written
system that you may have notbeen practicing all along.
So that was one of the things.
And, um.
And then it was really, so, Imean, I followed in my parents'
footstep for a while.
I had my own restaurant.
I thought, Hey, my parents wereducks.
I'm a duck, so quack, quack.
You know?
Here I go.
(02:51):
And then it turned out I gotmarried and had children and I
thought, you know what?
I want something different.
Right.
And I remember that.
I always loved learning.
I enjoyed school.
I, the bummer was when I went tohigh school, I was like, they
really.
Uh, I was thinking I, I was astudent who loved learning and
to go through an educationalprocess that takes the love of
(03:13):
learning out of you.
Miguel Sanchez (03:14):
Mm-hmm.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (03:14):
That says a lot.
So when I started back atcollege, I realized oh, I now
have some control over thethings that I will learn and,
and that, so, you know, that'skind of how I started.
And again, my parents.
Well, not able to navigate thesystem with me because first of
all, they're from anothercountry.
They got the education inanother country, totally
(03:36):
different here.
And um, so I didn't have anybodyto sit down with, maybe like you
and I did, to say, Hey, Jacquie,here's how you do it.
You know, here's some here'ssome tweaks, here's some things
you can use.
It was really, I had to find itall out the hard way, and that's
why I wanna share it all thetime because it takes an effort.
You know, if It was easy.
(03:56):
everybody would have a degree.
Miguel Sanchez (03:58):
No, I agree.
And one thing that I just wannahighlight, it's, we now have
another thing in common, and youhad some experience in the
restaurant business and I workedin the restaurant business for
10 years.
Um, and we can talk about someof those experiences at another
time, but one thing that I, thatyou mentioned is your parents'
involvement.
And related to that, what weresome of the biggest challenges?
(04:21):
That you faced as a firstgeneration college student?
Was it that your parents werenot able to help you in ways
that you needed?
Or maybe was there more thingsthat you faced during college?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (04:36):
My parents weren't able to help me
at all, basically.
they really, that was not ontheir radar.
They didn't think about it.
They didn't experience in theirlife how that was a valuable
tool for people that are livinghere, that that's an entryway
didn't, you know, I mean, we hadsuccessful restaurant.
They're like, Hey, what's wrongwith this?
And, uh, so they weren't, theyjust didn't.
(04:58):
Didn't see the importance of itbecause what they were doing
worked well and it worked wellwithin their parameters.
Right.
for me to start something newwas then kind of, well that
sounds great and good luck toyou and, uh, let us know if you
need anything.
But really most of the time itwas just me.
I started out, which is kind offunny, I started out my very
(05:20):
first.
education was a paralegalcertificate and I thought, oh my
God, I love the law and and so Iend up trying to go into a
bachelor's degree because Iwanted that as the foundation
for going to law school.
And it turns out in that processof getting my undergraduate, I
really realized what I trulylove is learning and teaching
and helping people learn.
(05:41):
You know, I still love the law.
It's, I love to argue, anddebate, but really it's about
helping people to understandthat we.
all can learn and we can all bebe successful.
Miguel Sanchez (05:51):
What can you tell us about how do you learn
to learn?
In other words, how do you thinkstudents today, whether they're
in high school, in college, howthey should be thinking about
learning?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (06:03):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Uh, So I'll tell you how Ifigured it out.
You know, I like I said, I lovedto learn, so I enjoyed learning,
And so I was able to bring withthat my own energy and things
like that, even if I hadinstructors and teachers that
were less than motivational,let's just say that kindly,
right?
But when I went to college with,uh, a full-time job, two young
(06:25):
children, toddlers.
A husband.
and, uh, trying to startchanging my life through
education.
I was very, very, very, verybusy.
And One day, I remember comingout of the school library.
and It was a beautiful day.
I mean, I remember it sovividly.
(06:45):
and I was looking around and thesun was coming through the trees
and was shimmering.
And I was like, wow, it'sspectacular.
And I had no idea.
What I needed to do next.
I was like total overload.
I was like, okay, I know I'mhere.
I, I don't know what I'msupposed to do, or where to go
next?
And I realized at that point.
I'm working too hard, I'mworking too hard.
(07:07):
I needed to learn to be smarterabout my time and my efforts.
And So when I had a chance, Idid talk to somebody, um, at the
library.
and they said, Hey, you knowwhat?
Have you ever thought about justchecking into study skills?
And I'm like, study skills.
I have no idea what that is,right?
And so study skills is amultitude of things that include
(07:30):
things such as recognizing howwe as individuals learn'cause we
all learn a little bitdifferently.
We all have the capability oflearning, and we all like to
learn because think of us aslittle babies We were always
like touching things, and doingthings.
and asking, you know what Imean?
And, and that doesn't have tostop ever.
And, um, but we do it a certainway.
(07:51):
And then the other thing is alsobehavioral, right?
So what I learned is I learnedthat there are cognitive
functions that I needed tounderstand about myself.
Whether that was circadianrhythms, you know, when are you
highly, uh, active aware Whendoes your how does your body
function?
those.
type of things.
Um.
And then also behavioral such asDiscipline.
(08:14):
Getting myself disciplined.
The hardest thing for me everwas is trying to find I had to
find time, trying to find thetime for me to do things right
with toddler husband work.
And so the time I found was fromfive o'clock to seven o'clock in
the morning'cause everybody wasstill sleeping.
And then at night from eight to10,'cause they were little, so I
(08:35):
could say, Hey, look, the clocksays eight o'clock, it's
bedtime.
There's nothing, I can't helpyou.
you know?
what I mean?
It's just how it's, and so theywould go to bed, but, and so
then I'd have stu time to study.
I was never a morning person.
And so part of the things Ilearned from the study skills is
to reprogram my body And toteach it, to prepare to be
ready, right?
So it did even things like,things I didn't think about is
(08:57):
when you start studying makesure your tools are already
there so that you don't have towaste time to get up and refill
your coffee, get a pen, findsome paper, look at your you,
know what?
I mean?
And that's kind of almost likehow athletes prepare.
so really looking.
at study skills, both from acognitive behavioral and a
(09:18):
physical aspect to maximize sothat you can study efficiently,
effectively, and Time sensitive,Right.
Because we all don't have anytime.
Miguel Sanchez (09:29):
I'm taking some notes and there's a couple
things you said about studyskills.
And even for me, when I think ofstudy skills, I usually think
about, am I reading thisproperly?
Am I understanding?
I wasn't really thinking aboutjust little examples such as
you're a morning person or youare a night person.
(09:50):
preparing your environment,right?
Having the things you needreadily available so that you
don't interrupt yourself, withsocial media and cell phones
being so readily available,there's a lot of distractions.
So on the topic of distractions.
How do you, why do you thinkpeople should be managing that?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (10:10):
It, you know, that is, a commitment
to yourself, right?
And I started that because whenI was working, uh, I realized
that, you know, I don't knowlast 10 years, it really was
that employers were encroachingalways on your time, you would
get emails all time, day, night,all that stuff.
And there was an expectationalmost for you to instantly
respond and stuff like
Miguel Sanchez (10:31):
like that.
Mm.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (10:32):
And I start thinking about that.
And so what I did is I really,for example, just a simple Thing
is I took my phone put it in myoffice at, at, nighttime.
I didn't answer it, I just leftit in the office, closed the
door.
If People call.
It just, it was just doing that.
And that was very, very, um,really a relief to me, right?
(10:54):
Giving myself the permission tonot having to be available all
the time.
And so I think that's one of thethings even for first gen
students, it's you have to begreed.
And we're not used to beinggreedy.
We're all very helpful.
You have to learn to be greedyabout your time.
You have to be greedy about thethings that are important to
you.
And so even when I was talkingwith my kids and or my husband,
(11:19):
it was like, look.
this is important to me and Ineed this time.
And so my kids knew when mom wasstudying.
You know what I mean they, butthen I also, spent the time with
them and gave them their time,but they knew it was important,
and I was greedy about it.
And I always say if you're gonnabe greedy be greedy about
knowledge, because I trulybelieve knowledge is power,
Miguel Sanchez (11:40):
One thing that I highlight when I talk to first
generation law students,especially ones who have
families, is just this, a bigpart of your education is going
to be having these frank.
Conversations with your familyabout the time management, uh,
especially nowadays where again,there's distractions, but you
(12:01):
also have to be really focusedon what you are, what you're
studying.
would you say that distractionsand lack of commitment is the
biggest challenge right now forstudents?
Or what, what would you say?
It's the biggest challenge?
Right now that first generationstudents should be challenge,
should be, uh, confronting orovercoming?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (12:23):
You know, I think it's time, you
know, because we are all, youknow, there's a lot of demands
on our time.
We are just getting it from allends, especially when you are
trying to make it still, it'sdifferent when you already have
a job and you have financialsecurity, but when you trying to
make it, you know, You're tryingto hustle a side job, you're
(12:43):
trying to, You know, take careof your kids, you're trying to
find daycare, you're trying todo all those different things,
So time.
really that time is one of thethings, Finding the time,
figuring out how am I gonna findthe time to dedicate to myself.
The other thing though, I thinkis cost, right?
Because There's a lot of costsinvolved, whether those are
(13:03):
financial, Those costs, youknow, and I'm gonna wanna talk a
little bit more about financialhacks.
'cause I Have some suggestions,for that.
But there's also.
cost to our social fabrics andour social networks, especially
for first gen students.
So one of the things I'verecognized and I've seen with
other first gen students thatI've kind of mentored or talked
(13:24):
with and things like that, isthat when you try to change your
life.
And Others aren't Sometimes.
you get some pushback, you know,Sometimes you get some pushback
from your own set network whereyou think my God, these people
should be just like overjoyedand rooting for me and going for
it, and, and sometimes not somuch because then sometimes, you
know, it feels like.
(13:44):
Maybe those individuals look atthemselves and go, well.
gosh, if Jockey can do it, or ifMiguel can do it.
you know, how come I'm not doingit well.
you, you know, it's just,there's even that cost in there.
So sometimes you have to beprepared that there are some
social costs that I think peopledon't even recognize, you know?
And then overall, the return oninvestment.
(14:04):
The return on investment.
I still believe educationchanged my life because it gave
me the trajectory that I wanted,but the return on the investment
that was true during my time isnot necessarily the same.
now.
And so Really figuring out, youknow, What's important in your
life, What do you want to getout of your, education?
(14:26):
How is your education gonna helpyou achieve the things in your
life that are meaningful?
Whether that is personal selfsatisfaction, you know, um.
Or supporting your family andproviding a better future for
them and you know, whatever itmay be, most people go to school
to to do something right.
to, To do, make it better fortheir family or even themselves.
(14:50):
So I think those three thingscoupled together are some of the
biggest challenges becausethere's a lot of noise right now
and it gets drowned out.
It's hard to focus and that'sone of the things I learned
with.
study skills is.
You have to focus.
If you focus and block thingsout, that stuff, then you are
getting that information.
If you're constantlyinterrupted,
Miguel Sanchez (15:11):
Mm-hmm.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, A (15:12):
happen.
It's just not gonna happen.
And then, you think, oh, this isnot, for me.
and it's not that, it's not,you're just not carving that
time out for you so that you canget
Miguel Sanchez (15:26):
I went to college, I went to a community
college and at first.
I was really, for many reasons,you know, as a young person, I
wanted to go to, any of the bigstate schools or any of the big
names, that were, and are stillpopular to this day.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
But at the time, we were justnot in a financial position
(15:47):
where we could do that.
So instead I enrolled atcommunity college.
I completed the two years, thenI went to a four year state
university and then on and now Ireally appreciate that because I
was paying for college as I wasgoing.
(16:09):
I was working, paying thetuition at the community
college, then working, payingthe tuition at the state school.
you mentioned financial hacks.
What are some things that firstgeneration students should be
thinking in terms of costs, uh,return of investment?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (16:25):
Yeah.
I actually had much the samejourney, you know, I started at
the community college because itwas easy Access.
It
Miguel Sanchez (16:32):
easy
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AF (16:32):
access and uh, when I realized, oh, you
can get financial aid.
I'm like, Ooh, somebody's payingme to go to school.
So I love that, right?
I mean, I still had to work andall that, but.
taking advantage of work study.
What I like about that is peopleat the college get to know you,
and once people get to know you,when opportunities arise, they
(16:54):
will say, Hey, Miguel, HeyJacquie.
There's that scholarship youmight be well suited for.
Why don't you apply for it?
Why don't you check it out,right?
So networking early.
on.
um.
I like the fact that.
what I would say now, is evenpeople who are, which they
didn't have this when you and Iwere going probably, but now,
(17:14):
um, a lot of students are ableto complete a co-curricular
opportunity during high school.
So they're able to attendalready.
When I was teaching at thecommunity college, I used to
teach English and I had a lot ofstudents who were enrolled, who
were high school students whowere doing dual credit, So
leveraging that dual credit, ifyou can.
(17:35):
The other thing is fornon-traditional students, one of
the things, one of the hacksthat I found is that you don't
have to necessarily take theclass, you just have to
demonstrate.
mastery.
So for example, I was fluent inGerman, and you had to have.
Foreign language.
So I clipp that.
So that clipping saved me a lotof time.
Right?
So some people might be able totake Spanish as a second
(17:57):
language or French or whateverit is.
Um, or if you can demonstrateAny other skill that you could
learn in a class where you.
You know, you're reallyproviding that?
um, demonstration that you havethat skill.
So For me as a, a person thatwas already married had had run
my own business and all thosetype of things, I was also using
(18:18):
a portfolio development, So youcould put together a portfolio
that showcased skills that youalready had that were
transferable into education, andthen you would just pay a fee.
And so they, I, you know, itjust made things a little bit
faster then.
When I went to my, uh,transferred to the state school
(18:39):
again, at the time, I think itwas still doable.
You, know, I was working again,I was working work study I I did
some fun stuff, with work,study.
I mean, I learned how to becomeart, research, art and things
like that.
And I'm kind of doing that rightnow.
You can see I still got some artpieces in the back where I'm
doing some fun stuff like that.
Um, But, um, Those create reallyopportunities as far with
(19:01):
connections.
in the, in the, um.
Within, the school.
And so again, leveraging thescholarships and those type of
things that come your way, andreally focusing on that is one.
But I also did the same as you,which is pay as you go and take
your time because there's norush.
There's no rush.
You're actually tortoise and thehare.
If you're taking that smallthat.
(19:22):
step moving towards the future,that's the right direction.
Um, and so then I finished mybachelor's degree.
I had an emergency.
We had an emergency as a familyand I took out a$2,500 loan at
the, time, and I was like, oh mygosh,$2,500.
That's just, and then I paidthat back with, it was$50, um,
(19:42):
because it was under a certainamount Then you only pay$50.
I think it took like four, yearsto pay it back, which is still a
long time.
Think about that 50, you knowwhat I mean?
Um.
And then I had an opportunity.
I was in the educationalsetting, and I was able to, uh,
get a scholarship full ride formaster's degree.
and there I did my multiculturalteaching English as a second
language degree.
(20:02):
And so that was free.
so that was awesome.
And then as I continued on ineducation, I was at another
university and they had aprogram that was called tuition
Assistance.
And so that tuition assistanceprogram is available to a wide
variety of people.
It's not just for highereducation.
Even when I was working with lawschool students, I had a student
(20:25):
who was working like in New Yorkfor the sheriff's department and
they wanted to go to law schooland so they leveraged, they were
gonna go part-time and then theywere leveraging that.
Tuition assistance and gettingthat reimbursed.
You know, any courses that theytook.
so you know, Starbucks, Costco,I mean, there's a whole bunch of
companies If you wanted to Workand go part-time, that will pay
(20:49):
for you to complete youreducational program.
This school.
Uh, paid for that.
I think at the time it was like$5,250 of credits you could do.
And so I think I benefited forthat for like maybe four years.
And then I took out, um.
Some student loans.
Which I wish I wouldn't havedone Like now in retrospect, I
(21:11):
think I would've just said, no,you know what?
I'm just gonna wait a littlebit.
But then later on I was at someother organizations, where I was
able to do, you know,certificate program at Harvard
They paid for that.
I didn't pay for that, leverage,those type of things.
So my advice would be is if youcan pay and learn as you go.
that would be probably idealbecause nowadays.
(21:34):
You know, it's the return Onyour investment.
is really good for probablystill your bachelor's degree,
but once you move up a littlebit higher.
I think you really need tocrunch the numbers.
Miguel Sanchez (21:45):
It wasn't until I worked in admissions that I
realized, you know what, an MBAwill actually be very helpful in
helping me with the, the workthat I do.
And so I completed my MBA andvery similar to your experience.
I also, used tuition.
In our case it's called tuitionremission.
but it wasn't until I startedworking that I realized that I
needed this.
It, it seems to me that thereare a lot of students who just
(22:08):
wanna do all these thingswithout even thinking about how
they.
How they benefit.
Um, and so I think it's reallyimportant for students to, you
know, go to school, but alsomaybe get some work experience
after, especially after theirbachelor's degree, so they can
get a sense of what is, what'sbest for them in terms of
learning.
Going back to this idea oflearning how to learn is it's,
(22:30):
it's knowing about you.
Knowing yourself, and knowingwhat's going to help you in the,
in the long term or in themedium term.
That said, I wanna talk about,mentorship.
'cause I think one of the waysthat first generation graduates
and students can empowerthemselves is building a
network.
we talk about mentorship, buthow do you, how do you find a
(22:50):
mentor?
Do you go to someone and say,Hey, do you wanna be my mentor?
Do you go to someone and say,Hey, do you wanna be my mentee?
Like how does that relationshipstart?
Yeah.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (23:02):
Yeah, that's a great question.
And so I went to a conferenceonce and I wanna tell you
something, and this is SomethingI learned so late in life, I
wish I would've learned it a lotsooner because it's so powerful
And, um, it was a woman, and shedid the presentation, and
there's something about wisdomsof pearls, pearls of wisdom or
something, that, and I justdon't remember the name.
(23:23):
but her advice was this getyourself a peer.
That you can talk to and thepeer is somebody that you can
talk to and really say, Hey, youknow what?
Today I'm having a bad day, OrOh my God, this is great.
Whatever.
it is, get somebody that reallyyou can connect to on that
personal level where you canshare Whatever happens without
any feeling of repercussion oranything like that, Then get
(23:45):
yourself a mentor, somebody thatwill, take you under your wings.
And I personally believe that,yes.
ask for it.
Figure out, you know, sometimesyou'll find people who want they
mentor you, but I think it'sokay.
to ask for it.
Help me get to the next levelBecause people actually want to.
I hardly find anybody that says,Nope, not gonna help you.
(24:07):
Not gonna do it.
Not gonna do, uh, nope.
Not at all.
Right?
People wanna help.
We all, want your success is mysuccess.
I'm overjoyed.
You got your A FC, right?
And um, but help asking formentors.
So I think sometimes.
that's kind of.
Unusual because We're also in aculture where we're not
encouraged to ask for help.
It's like, Hey, pull yourself upby your
Miguel Sanchez (24:27):
Yes.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (24:28):
Work a little harder.
You're not doing it right.
No, You know, I mean, all thebest people that are successful
have a mentor.
So get a mentor.
Here's the one that was oftenoverlooked for me.
I didn't know until the veryend.
when you.
are at your job and at yourcareer.
Get somebody that is an advocatefor you at the decision making
(24:48):
table, because that's gonna beinstrumental for navigating your
career, right?
It's great to have somebody tobounce ideas off on a peer.
It's somebody great to have amentor, that's gonna say, hey,
blah, blah, blah, here's whatyou should do.
to Get to the next level.
But unless there's somebody atthe decision making table
saying, Miguel is that personthat we're gonna float up the
(25:10):
chain.
and he's gonna be the next soand so, It's not gonna happen.
Right?
And So having all three is veryimportant.
and they all Have distinctivelydifferent functions.
Uh, And I think I wanted toshare that because I learned
that so late.
I'm just like, oh my god Iforgot about that.
Because if you have nobody, atthe table, you know, like they
say, if you are notrepresentative at the table.
(25:32):
you're usually on the menu.
Miguel Sanchez (25:33):
How was it for you?
How did you find a mentor, um,like for your first job?
The reason why I'm highlightingthis point is because it seems
to me like there's a gap.
You know, students finish degreeand then they need to get this
first job, but a lot of peopleor a lot of students are under
disbelief that just by sendingout applications is enough and
(25:55):
it's not, you really have tobuild that social capital.
How was it like for you?
Did you have anyone helping youget your first job?
What did that look like for you?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (26:07):
Yeah, so I, you know what the thing
is, um, I worked at the studyskills center at the university,
right?
I actually became a peer mentorfor study skills, helping
students learn how to learn.
'cause I, I, when I learnedthat, I was like, I gotta share
this with everybody This is soimportant.
you know?
And So I became a mentor and Ilove that my first job was kind
(26:31):
of a job at the university Itwas, uh, and I had a, Um,
mentor, there who was mysupervisor, and the greatest
thing she ever did for me is,Hey, you know what, I'm a great
public speaker and I can talk toanybody I used to do
presentations and things likethat.
But I could not write worthnothing.
You know, I, I never learned howto type or anything like that.
And she held me accountable onthat and said, look, this is one
(26:54):
of the things you needed tolearn.
And I'm like, okay.
And so my mentor in that job.
was great because She said,yeah, you do a lot of things
good, but that's not goodenough.
You're gonna need To help and dothis.
And so I learned a lot of thingsunder her tutelage and then I
(27:14):
was gonna apply at the CO atthe, college for a job, and she
said, you know what?
You don't need to work here.
You are good now.
You can go out now and get a jobout in the real world.
And, I, and so having that, sothat was kinda almost like a
transitional job for me, right.
From being in academia to doingsomething, uh, a job at the
(27:35):
college that wasn't necessarilya work study job, Uh, and then
going into.
really the career.
So that's kind of how ithappened with me It was really,
because I didn't know I needed amentor and I didn't really see
what my shortcomings were.
Miguel Sanchez (27:53):
I'm glad you shared that.
One of the things that we don't,or we often overlook is as we're
searching for mentors, we wantpeople to, to support us, to be
sort of our cheerleaders, but Ithink we also.
Need to find mentors who aregonna be frank and going to be,
a guide in, in, in telling us,okay, you need to work on this,
you need to work on that.
(28:14):
if you don't know yourshortcomings or your weaknesses,
it's gonna be very hard toimprove.
Jacquie, what has been yourbiggest achievement as a first
generation graduate?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (28:25):
You know, I think my biggest
achievement has been that I'mable to pass on To as many
people as possible thateverybody can learn, you know,
if you, no matter what you wannalearn, you can learn.
It's'cause.
Um, you know, I I helped mysisters get a bachelor's degree,
helped them navigate the system,You know, my children did and
(28:48):
things like that.
But it was really that wholething about learning how to
learn.
and making that.
so that we can do the things inour life that we want to.
And uh, so because those are alltransferable skills, it doesn't
matter what you do That learninghow to learn is so important
because younger people nowadaysare gonna change jobs.
(29:10):
My god, you know, in our timethey said 10 to 15 different
jobs, maybe no career changes,Right?
But the younger generation now,they're saying you might change
complete careers.
So doing something
Miguel Sanchez (29:23):
yes,
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, (29:24):
different and learning those skills are
transferable.
skills and Recognizing that Ithink is power.
Like even for me, I actually nowfull circle, you know, I'm
leaving education.
I'm started, I started a newbusiness, uh, creating games
that have an educationalcomponent that are highly
(29:45):
motivational.
You know, I've always used tohear, for example, people say,
oh my God, I can't do math.
as a study skills.
Tutor, you know, they like, Ijust can't do it.
I'm not I heard it from lawschool students.
I'm like, no, that's actuallynot true.
People can.
And so I started to think about,you know, creating games that
help promote learning inauthentic ways that make it fun,
(30:08):
that make it engaged, And sothat to bring that love of
learning back to people that wehad when we were little kids,
because that's what life is.
It's just full of discovery, oflearning and things that the
future holds.
We don't even know.
Miguel Sanchez (30:23):
And so how can people learn more about, these
games, to help promote learning?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (30:28):
so like my first game at that is
get nine, which is, again, it'sfun motivational, but it's also
to help you overcome that mathanxiety.
Go to game Craft us and craft isSpelled with a K, which means
strength and power in German.
So it's, you know, power throughgames.
and just email me and uh, andI'd be happy to share anything I
(30:50):
know with anybody.
You can check out the game.
My next game that I'm.
Trying to develop right now isgoing to college, because again.
having been in financial aid forsuch a long time, the one thing
that financial aid I alwaysheard is saying people, we tell
students, but they just don'tget it.
And I'm, they're like, it wouldbe great if there was a game.
So I'm like, oh, let me thinkabout, it.
And so that's gonna be my nextone.
(31:11):
So If you wanna check that outuh, you know, if you wanna gimme
some feedback, insights,participate, you know, just
reach out and I'll tell youanything I know.
I mean, I really will because Ilove sharing the knowledge.
That's what it's about.
for me.
Miguel Sanchez (31:25):
Thank you, Jacquie.
And I'll be sure to include theinformation on the show notes
and our links that people canfind it and share their thoughts
with you.
Jacquie, thank you very much forsharing your thoughts and your
experiences.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (31:38):
Thank you.
Welcome to another episode of the First Gen
1 0 1 podcast.
Today we have Jacquie Carroll.
Jacquie, welcome.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (00:11):
How are you?
Miguel Sanchez (00:13):
Good.
I'm so excited about thisepisode and we were just talking
about this moments ago before westarted the recording, about how
we met and how this podcast cameto be.
And I'm gonna give our listenerssome context about how we met,
because I think it's gonnareally help us in our
conversation.
So we actually met during or ata financial aid conference in
(00:36):
Chicago about three years ago,and at the time I was planning
on becoming an A FC, anaccredited financial counselor.
And we can talk about that inthis episode, what that means
and how it's helpful.
And at the time, I shared withyou this goal, and you provided
helpful tips.
Then about a year later, youspent some time with me at the
(00:57):
Association for FinancialCounseling and Planning
Education Symposium in newOrleans.
And at the time, you werehelping me understand how to
navigate the certificationprocess, and with your guidance,
I was able to meet therequirements to become an A FC.
So first.
I want to express gratitude foryour guidance in helping me
(01:18):
secure the a FC.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AF (01:19):
You're very welcome.
Miguel.
Miguel Sanchez (01:20):
that's how you became part of my first
generation story.
So with that note, Jacquie,share with me your first
generation story.
Jacquie Carroll, Ed (01:29):
absolutely.
So Miguel, one of the things issometimes, you know, I, I have
my doctorate, I have an AFC andsometimes people look at me and
they don't see me as a first genstudent.
And I was totally first gen,non-traditional, all the way
muddling my way through the cis.
And, I.
started out, actually thedaughter of immigrants.
(01:50):
So I did some of the same thingsthat probably all immigrants can
relate to, which is we were inthe family business, which was a
restaurant business, becausethat's one of the things, if
you're a great cook, you canstart a business anywhere
English was actually my secondlanguage.
Uh, later on I learned Spanish,which is my third language in a
way, but really English was mysecond language.
(02:11):
And so again, that's probablysomething that was very
important because I realized youcan learn.
English, the language, languageacquisition skills rather
quickly as far as the basicinteractions.
Like, Hey, how are you?
I like your shirt and I likeyour dress and all that stuff.
But once you move intoacademics, that's entirely
different.
(02:31):
And really having to learn howto navigate, um, the written
system that you may have notbeen practicing all along.
So that was one of the things.
And, um.
And then it was really, so, Imean, I followed in my parents'
footstep for a while.
I had my own restaurant.
I thought, Hey, my parents wereducks.
I'm a duck, so quack, quack.
You know?
Here I go.
(02:51):
And then it turned out I gotmarried and had children and I
thought, you know what?
I want something different.
Right.
And I remember that.
I always loved learning.
I enjoyed school.
I, the bummer was when I went tohigh school, I was like, they
really.
Uh, I was thinking I, I was astudent who loved learning and
to go through an educationalprocess that takes the love of
(03:13):
learning out of you.
Miguel Sanchez (03:14):
Mm-hmm.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (03:14):
That says a lot.
So when I started back atcollege, I realized oh, I now
have some control over thethings that I will learn and,
and that, so, you know, that'skind of how I started.
And again, my parents.
Well, not able to navigate thesystem with me because first of
all, they're from anothercountry.
They got the education inanother country, totally
(03:36):
different here.
And um, so I didn't have anybodyto sit down with, maybe like you
and I did, to say, Hey, Jacquie,here's how you do it.
You know, here's some here'ssome tweaks, here's some things
you can use.
It was really, I had to find itall out the hard way, and that's
why I wanna share it all thetime because it takes an effort.
You know, if It was easy.
(03:56):
everybody would have a degree.
Miguel Sanchez (03:58):
No, I agree.
And one thing that I just wannahighlight, it's, we now have
another thing in common, and youhad some experience in the
restaurant business and I workedin the restaurant business for
10 years.
Um, and we can talk about someof those experiences at another
time, but one thing that I, thatyou mentioned is your parents'
involvement.
And related to that, what weresome of the biggest challenges?
(04:21):
That you faced as a firstgeneration college student?
Was it that your parents werenot able to help you in ways
that you needed?
Or maybe was there more thingsthat you faced during college?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (04:36):
My parents weren't able to help me
at all, basically.
they really, that was not ontheir radar.
They didn't think about it.
They didn't experience in theirlife how that was a valuable
tool for people that are livinghere, that that's an entryway
didn't, you know, I mean, we hadsuccessful restaurant.
They're like, Hey, what's wrongwith this?
And, uh, so they weren't, theyjust didn't.
(04:58):
Didn't see the importance of itbecause what they were doing
worked well and it worked wellwithin their parameters.
Right.
for me to start something newwas then kind of, well that
sounds great and good luck toyou and, uh, let us know if you
need anything.
But really most of the time itwas just me.
I started out, which is kind offunny, I started out my very
(05:20):
first.
education was a paralegalcertificate and I thought, oh my
God, I love the law and and so Iend up trying to go into a
bachelor's degree because Iwanted that as the foundation
for going to law school.
And it turns out in that processof getting my undergraduate, I
really realized what I trulylove is learning and teaching
and helping people learn.
(05:41):
You know, I still love the law.
It's, I love to argue, anddebate, but really it's about
helping people to understandthat we.
all can learn and we can all bebe successful.
Miguel Sanchez (05:51):
What can you tell us about how do you learn
to learn?
In other words, how do you thinkstudents today, whether they're
in high school, in college, howthey should be thinking about
learning?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (06:03):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Uh, So I'll tell you how Ifigured it out.
You know, I like I said, I lovedto learn, so I enjoyed learning,
And so I was able to bring withthat my own energy and things
like that, even if I hadinstructors and teachers that
were less than motivational,let's just say that kindly,
right?
But when I went to college with,uh, a full-time job, two young
(06:25):
children, toddlers.
A husband.
and, uh, trying to startchanging my life through
education.
I was very, very, very, verybusy.
And One day, I remember comingout of the school library.
and It was a beautiful day.
I mean, I remember it sovividly.
(06:45):
and I was looking around and thesun was coming through the trees
and was shimmering.
And I was like, wow, it'sspectacular.
And I had no idea.
What I needed to do next.
I was like total overload.
I was like, okay, I know I'mhere.
I, I don't know what I'msupposed to do, or where to go
next?
And I realized at that point.
I'm working too hard, I'mworking too hard.
(07:07):
I needed to learn to be smarterabout my time and my efforts.
And So when I had a chance, Idid talk to somebody, um, at the
library.
and they said, Hey, you knowwhat?
Have you ever thought about justchecking into study skills?
And I'm like, study skills.
I have no idea what that is,right?
And so study skills is amultitude of things that include
(07:30):
things such as recognizing howwe as individuals learn'cause we
all learn a little bitdifferently.
We all have the capability oflearning, and we all like to
learn because think of us aslittle babies We were always
like touching things, and doingthings.
and asking, you know what Imean?
And, and that doesn't have tostop ever.
And, um, but we do it a certainway.
(07:51):
And then the other thing is alsobehavioral, right?
So what I learned is I learnedthat there are cognitive
functions that I needed tounderstand about myself.
Whether that was circadianrhythms, you know, when are you
highly, uh, active aware Whendoes your how does your body
function?
those.
type of things.
Um.
And then also behavioral such asDiscipline.
(08:14):
Getting myself disciplined.
The hardest thing for me everwas is trying to find I had to
find time, trying to find thetime for me to do things right
with toddler husband work.
And so the time I found was fromfive o'clock to seven o'clock in
the morning'cause everybody wasstill sleeping.
And then at night from eight to10,'cause they were little, so I
(08:35):
could say, Hey, look, the clocksays eight o'clock, it's
bedtime.
There's nothing, I can't helpyou.
you know?
what I mean?
It's just how it's, and so theywould go to bed, but, and so
then I'd have stu time to study.
I was never a morning person.
And so part of the things Ilearned from the study skills is
to reprogram my body And toteach it, to prepare to be
ready, right?
So it did even things like,things I didn't think about is
(08:57):
when you start studying makesure your tools are already
there so that you don't have towaste time to get up and refill
your coffee, get a pen, findsome paper, look at your you,
know what?
I mean?
And that's kind of almost likehow athletes prepare.
so really looking.
at study skills, both from acognitive behavioral and a
(09:18):
physical aspect to maximize sothat you can study efficiently,
effectively, and Time sensitive,Right.
Because we all don't have anytime.
Miguel Sanchez (09:29):
I'm taking some notes and there's a couple
things you said about studyskills.
And even for me, when I think ofstudy skills, I usually think
about, am I reading thisproperly?
Am I understanding?
I wasn't really thinking aboutjust little examples such as
you're a morning person or youare a night person.
(09:50):
preparing your environment,right?
Having the things you needreadily available so that you
don't interrupt yourself, withsocial media and cell phones
being so readily available,there's a lot of distractions.
So on the topic of distractions.
How do you, why do you thinkpeople should be managing that?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (10:10):
It, you know, that is, a commitment
to yourself, right?
And I started that because whenI was working, uh, I realized
that, you know, I don't knowlast 10 years, it really was
that employers were encroachingalways on your time, you would
get emails all time, day, night,all that stuff.
And there was an expectationalmost for you to instantly
respond and stuff like
Miguel Sanchez (10:31):
like that.
Mm.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (10:32):
And I start thinking about that.
And so what I did is I really,for example, just a simple Thing
is I took my phone put it in myoffice at, at, nighttime.
I didn't answer it, I just leftit in the office, closed the
door.
If People call.
It just, it was just doing that.
And that was very, very, um,really a relief to me, right?
(10:54):
Giving myself the permission tonot having to be available all
the time.
And so I think that's one of thethings even for first gen
students, it's you have to begreed.
And we're not used to beinggreedy.
We're all very helpful.
You have to learn to be greedyabout your time.
You have to be greedy about thethings that are important to
you.
And so even when I was talkingwith my kids and or my husband,
(11:19):
it was like, look.
this is important to me and Ineed this time.
And so my kids knew when mom wasstudying.
You know what I mean they, butthen I also, spent the time with
them and gave them their time,but they knew it was important,
and I was greedy about it.
And I always say if you're gonnabe greedy be greedy about
knowledge, because I trulybelieve knowledge is power,
Miguel Sanchez (11:40):
One thing that I highlight when I talk to first
generation law students,especially ones who have
families, is just this, a bigpart of your education is going
to be having these frank.
Conversations with your familyabout the time management, uh,
especially nowadays where again,there's distractions, but you
(12:01):
also have to be really focusedon what you are, what you're
studying.
would you say that distractionsand lack of commitment is the
biggest challenge right now forstudents?
Or what, what would you say?
It's the biggest challenge?
Right now that first generationstudents should be challenge,
should be, uh, confronting orovercoming?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (12:23):
You know, I think it's time, you
know, because we are all, youknow, there's a lot of demands
on our time.
We are just getting it from allends, especially when you are
trying to make it still, it'sdifferent when you already have
a job and you have financialsecurity, but when you trying to
make it, you know, You're tryingto hustle a side job, you're
(12:43):
trying to, You know, take careof your kids, you're trying to
find daycare, you're trying todo all those different things,
So time.
really that time is one of thethings, Finding the time,
figuring out how am I gonna findthe time to dedicate to myself.
The other thing though, I thinkis cost, right?
Because There's a lot of costsinvolved, whether those are
(13:03):
financial, Those costs, youknow, and I'm gonna wanna talk a
little bit more about financialhacks.
'cause I Have some suggestions,for that.
But there's also.
cost to our social fabrics andour social networks, especially
for first gen students.
So one of the things I'verecognized and I've seen with
other first gen students thatI've kind of mentored or talked
(13:24):
with and things like that, isthat when you try to change your
life.
And Others aren't Sometimes.
you get some pushback, you know,Sometimes you get some pushback
from your own set network whereyou think my God, these people
should be just like overjoyedand rooting for me and going for
it, and, and sometimes not somuch because then sometimes, you
know, it feels like.
(13:44):
Maybe those individuals look atthemselves and go, well.
gosh, if Jockey can do it, or ifMiguel can do it.
you know, how come I'm not doingit well.
you, you know, it's just,there's even that cost in there.
So sometimes you have to beprepared that there are some
social costs that I think peopledon't even recognize, you know?
And then overall, the return oninvestment.
(14:04):
The return on investment.
I still believe educationchanged my life because it gave
me the trajectory that I wanted,but the return on the investment
that was true during my time isnot necessarily the same.
now.
And so Really figuring out, youknow, What's important in your
life, What do you want to getout of your, education?
(14:26):
How is your education gonna helpyou achieve the things in your
life that are meaningful?
Whether that is personal selfsatisfaction, you know, um.
Or supporting your family andproviding a better future for
them and you know, whatever itmay be, most people go to school
to to do something right.
to, To do, make it better fortheir family or even themselves.
(14:50):
So I think those three thingscoupled together are some of the
biggest challenges becausethere's a lot of noise right now
and it gets drowned out.
It's hard to focus and that'sone of the things I learned
with.
study skills is.
You have to focus.
If you focus and block thingsout, that stuff, then you are
getting that information.
If you're constantlyinterrupted,
Miguel Sanchez (15:11):
Mm-hmm.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, A (15:12):
happen.
It's just not gonna happen.
And then, you think, oh, this isnot, for me.
and it's not that, it's not,you're just not carving that
time out for you so that you canget
Miguel Sanchez (15:26):
I went to college, I went to a community
college and at first.
I was really, for many reasons,you know, as a young person, I
wanted to go to, any of the bigstate schools or any of the big
names, that were, and are stillpopular to this day.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
But at the time, we were justnot in a financial position
(15:47):
where we could do that.
So instead I enrolled atcommunity college.
I completed the two years, thenI went to a four year state
university and then on and now Ireally appreciate that because I
was paying for college as I wasgoing.
(16:09):
I was working, paying thetuition at the community
college, then working, payingthe tuition at the state school.
you mentioned financial hacks.
What are some things that firstgeneration students should be
thinking in terms of costs, uh,return of investment?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (16:25):
Yeah.
I actually had much the samejourney, you know, I started at
the community college because itwas easy Access.
It
Miguel Sanchez (16:32):
easy
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AF (16:32):
access and uh, when I realized, oh, you
can get financial aid.
I'm like, Ooh, somebody's payingme to go to school.
So I love that, right?
I mean, I still had to work andall that, but.
taking advantage of work study.
What I like about that is peopleat the college get to know you,
and once people get to know you,when opportunities arise, they
(16:54):
will say, Hey, Miguel, HeyJacquie.
There's that scholarship youmight be well suited for.
Why don't you apply for it?
Why don't you check it out,right?
So networking early.
on.
um.
I like the fact that.
what I would say now, is evenpeople who are, which they
didn't have this when you and Iwere going probably, but now,
(17:14):
um, a lot of students are ableto complete a co-curricular
opportunity during high school.
So they're able to attendalready.
When I was teaching at thecommunity college, I used to
teach English and I had a lot ofstudents who were enrolled, who
were high school students whowere doing dual credit, So
leveraging that dual credit, ifyou can.
(17:35):
The other thing is fornon-traditional students, one of
the things, one of the hacksthat I found is that you don't
have to necessarily take theclass, you just have to
demonstrate.
mastery.
So for example, I was fluent inGerman, and you had to have.
Foreign language.
So I clipp that.
So that clipping saved me a lotof time.
Right?
So some people might be able totake Spanish as a second
(17:57):
language or French or whateverit is.
Um, or if you can demonstrateAny other skill that you could
learn in a class where you.
You know, you're reallyproviding that?
um, demonstration that you havethat skill.
So For me as a, a person thatwas already married had had run
my own business and all thosetype of things, I was also using
(18:18):
a portfolio development, So youcould put together a portfolio
that showcased skills that youalready had that were
transferable into education, andthen you would just pay a fee.
And so they, I, you know, itjust made things a little bit
faster then.
When I went to my, uh,transferred to the state school
(18:39):
again, at the time, I think itwas still doable.
You, know, I was working again,I was working work study I I did
some fun stuff, with work,study.
I mean, I learned how to becomeart, research, art and things
like that.
And I'm kind of doing that rightnow.
You can see I still got some artpieces in the back where I'm
doing some fun stuff like that.
Um, But, um, Those create reallyopportunities as far with
(19:01):
connections.
in the, in the, um.
Within, the school.
And so again, leveraging thescholarships and those type of
things that come your way, andreally focusing on that is one.
But I also did the same as you,which is pay as you go and take
your time because there's norush.
There's no rush.
You're actually tortoise and thehare.
If you're taking that smallthat.
(19:22):
step moving towards the future,that's the right direction.
Um, and so then I finished mybachelor's degree.
I had an emergency.
We had an emergency as a familyand I took out a$2,500 loan at
the, time, and I was like, oh mygosh,$2,500.
That's just, and then I paidthat back with, it was$50, um,
(19:42):
because it was under a certainamount Then you only pay$50.
I think it took like four, yearsto pay it back, which is still a
long time.
Think about that 50, you knowwhat I mean?
Um.
And then I had an opportunity.
I was in the educationalsetting, and I was able to, uh,
get a scholarship full ride formaster's degree.
and there I did my multiculturalteaching English as a second
language degree.
(20:02):
And so that was free.
so that was awesome.
And then as I continued on ineducation, I was at another
university and they had aprogram that was called tuition
Assistance.
And so that tuition assistanceprogram is available to a wide
variety of people.
It's not just for highereducation.
Even when I was working with lawschool students, I had a student
(20:25):
who was working like in New Yorkfor the sheriff's department and
they wanted to go to law schooland so they leveraged, they were
gonna go part-time and then theywere leveraging that.
Tuition assistance and gettingthat reimbursed.
You know, any courses that theytook.
so you know, Starbucks, Costco,I mean, there's a whole bunch of
companies If you wanted to Workand go part-time, that will pay
(20:49):
for you to complete youreducational program.
This school.
Uh, paid for that.
I think at the time it was like$5,250 of credits you could do.
And so I think I benefited forthat for like maybe four years.
And then I took out, um.
Some student loans.
Which I wish I wouldn't havedone Like now in retrospect, I
(21:11):
think I would've just said, no,you know what?
I'm just gonna wait a littlebit.
But then later on I was at someother organizations, where I was
able to do, you know,certificate program at Harvard
They paid for that.
I didn't pay for that, leverage,those type of things.
So my advice would be is if youcan pay and learn as you go.
that would be probably idealbecause nowadays.
(21:34):
You know, it's the return Onyour investment.
is really good for probablystill your bachelor's degree,
but once you move up a littlebit higher.
I think you really need tocrunch the numbers.
Miguel Sanchez (21:45):
It wasn't until I worked in admissions that I
realized, you know what, an MBAwill actually be very helpful in
helping me with the, the workthat I do.
And so I completed my MBA andvery similar to your experience.
I also, used tuition.
In our case it's called tuitionremission.
but it wasn't until I startedworking that I realized that I
needed this.
It, it seems to me that thereare a lot of students who just
(22:08):
wanna do all these thingswithout even thinking about how
they.
How they benefit.
Um, and so I think it's reallyimportant for students to, you
know, go to school, but alsomaybe get some work experience
after, especially after theirbachelor's degree, so they can
get a sense of what is, what'sbest for them in terms of
learning.
Going back to this idea oflearning how to learn is it's,
(22:30):
it's knowing about you.
Knowing yourself, and knowingwhat's going to help you in the,
in the long term or in themedium term.
That said, I wanna talk about,mentorship.
'cause I think one of the waysthat first generation graduates
and students can empowerthemselves is building a
network.
we talk about mentorship, buthow do you, how do you find a
(22:50):
mentor?
Do you go to someone and say,Hey, do you wanna be my mentor?
Do you go to someone and say,Hey, do you wanna be my mentee?
Like how does that relationshipstart?
Yeah.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (23:02):
Yeah, that's a great question.
And so I went to a conferenceonce and I wanna tell you
something, and this is SomethingI learned so late in life, I
wish I would've learned it a lotsooner because it's so powerful
And, um, it was a woman, and shedid the presentation, and
there's something about wisdomsof pearls, pearls of wisdom or
something, that, and I justdon't remember the name.
(23:23):
but her advice was this getyourself a peer.
That you can talk to and thepeer is somebody that you can
talk to and really say, Hey, youknow what?
Today I'm having a bad day, OrOh my God, this is great.
Whatever.
it is, get somebody that reallyyou can connect to on that
personal level where you canshare Whatever happens without
any feeling of repercussion oranything like that, Then get
(23:45):
yourself a mentor, somebody thatwill, take you under your wings.
And I personally believe that,yes.
ask for it.
Figure out, you know, sometimesyou'll find people who want they
mentor you, but I think it'sokay.
to ask for it.
Help me get to the next levelBecause people actually want to.
I hardly find anybody that says,Nope, not gonna help you.
(24:07):
Not gonna do it.
Not gonna do, uh, nope.
Not at all.
Right?
People wanna help.
We all, want your success is mysuccess.
I'm overjoyed.
You got your A FC, right?
And um, but help asking formentors.
So I think sometimes.
that's kind of.
Unusual because We're also in aculture where we're not
encouraged to ask for help.
It's like, Hey, pull yourself upby your
Miguel Sanchez (24:27):
Yes.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (24:28):
Work a little harder.
You're not doing it right.
No, You know, I mean, all thebest people that are successful
have a mentor.
So get a mentor.
Here's the one that was oftenoverlooked for me.
I didn't know until the veryend.
when you.
are at your job and at yourcareer.
Get somebody that is an advocatefor you at the decision making
(24:48):
table, because that's gonna beinstrumental for navigating your
career, right?
It's great to have somebody tobounce ideas off on a peer.
It's somebody great to have amentor, that's gonna say, hey,
blah, blah, blah, here's whatyou should do.
to Get to the next level.
But unless there's somebody atthe decision making table
saying, Miguel is that personthat we're gonna float up the
(25:10):
chain.
and he's gonna be the next soand so, It's not gonna happen.
Right?
And So having all three is veryimportant.
and they all Have distinctivelydifferent functions.
Uh, And I think I wanted toshare that because I learned
that so late.
I'm just like, oh my god Iforgot about that.
Because if you have nobody, atthe table, you know, like they
say, if you are notrepresentative at the table.
(25:32):
you're usually on the menu.
Miguel Sanchez (25:33):
How was it for you?
How did you find a mentor, um,like for your first job?
The reason why I'm highlightingthis point is because it seems
to me like there's a gap.
You know, students finish degreeand then they need to get this
first job, but a lot of peopleor a lot of students are under
disbelief that just by sendingout applications is enough and
(25:55):
it's not, you really have tobuild that social capital.
How was it like for you?
Did you have anyone helping youget your first job?
What did that look like for you?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (26:07):
Yeah, so I, you know what the thing
is, um, I worked at the studyskills center at the university,
right?
I actually became a peer mentorfor study skills, helping
students learn how to learn.
'cause I, I, when I learnedthat, I was like, I gotta share
this with everybody This is soimportant.
you know?
And So I became a mentor and Ilove that my first job was kind
(26:31):
of a job at the university Itwas, uh, and I had a, Um,
mentor, there who was mysupervisor, and the greatest
thing she ever did for me is,Hey, you know what, I'm a great
public speaker and I can talk toanybody I used to do
presentations and things likethat.
But I could not write worthnothing.
You know, I, I never learned howto type or anything like that.
And she held me accountable onthat and said, look, this is one
(26:54):
of the things you needed tolearn.
And I'm like, okay.
And so my mentor in that job.
was great because She said,yeah, you do a lot of things
good, but that's not goodenough.
You're gonna need To help and dothis.
And so I learned a lot of thingsunder her tutelage and then I
(27:14):
was gonna apply at the CO atthe, college for a job, and she
said, you know what?
You don't need to work here.
You are good now.
You can go out now and get a jobout in the real world.
And, I, and so having that, sothat was kinda almost like a
transitional job for me, right.
From being in academia to doingsomething, uh, a job at the
(27:35):
college that wasn't necessarilya work study job, Uh, and then
going into.
really the career.
So that's kind of how ithappened with me It was really,
because I didn't know I needed amentor and I didn't really see
what my shortcomings were.
Miguel Sanchez (27:53):
I'm glad you shared that.
One of the things that we don't,or we often overlook is as we're
searching for mentors, we wantpeople to, to support us, to be
sort of our cheerleaders, but Ithink we also.
Need to find mentors who aregonna be frank and going to be,
a guide in, in, in telling us,okay, you need to work on this,
you need to work on that.
(28:14):
if you don't know yourshortcomings or your weaknesses,
it's gonna be very hard toimprove.
Jacquie, what has been yourbiggest achievement as a first
generation graduate?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (28:25):
You know, I think my biggest
achievement has been that I'mable to pass on To as many
people as possible thateverybody can learn, you know,
if you, no matter what you wannalearn, you can learn.
It's'cause.
Um, you know, I I helped mysisters get a bachelor's degree,
helped them navigate the system,You know, my children did and
(28:48):
things like that.
But it was really that wholething about learning how to
learn.
and making that.
so that we can do the things inour life that we want to.
And uh, so because those are alltransferable skills, it doesn't
matter what you do That learninghow to learn is so important
because younger people nowadaysare gonna change jobs.
(29:10):
My god, you know, in our timethey said 10 to 15 different
jobs, maybe no career changes,Right?
But the younger generation now,they're saying you might change
complete careers.
So doing something
Miguel Sanchez (29:23):
yes,
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, (29:24):
different and learning those skills are
transferable.
skills and Recognizing that Ithink is power.
Like even for me, I actually nowfull circle, you know, I'm
leaving education.
I'm started, I started a newbusiness, uh, creating games
that have an educationalcomponent that are highly
(29:45):
motivational.
You know, I've always used tohear, for example, people say,
oh my God, I can't do math.
as a study skills.
Tutor, you know, they like, Ijust can't do it.
I'm not I heard it from lawschool students.
I'm like, no, that's actuallynot true.
People can.
And so I started to think about,you know, creating games that
help promote learning inauthentic ways that make it fun,
(30:08):
that make it engaged, And sothat to bring that love of
learning back to people that wehad when we were little kids,
because that's what life is.
It's just full of discovery, oflearning and things that the
future holds.
We don't even know.
Miguel Sanchez (30:23):
And so how can people learn more about, these
games, to help promote learning?
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (30:28):
so like my first game at that is
get nine, which is, again, it'sfun motivational, but it's also
to help you overcome that mathanxiety.
Go to game Craft us and craft isSpelled with a K, which means
strength and power in German.
So it's, you know, power throughgames.
and just email me and uh, andI'd be happy to share anything I
(30:50):
know with anybody.
You can check out the game.
My next game that I'm.
Trying to develop right now isgoing to college, because again.
having been in financial aid forsuch a long time, the one thing
that financial aid I alwaysheard is saying people, we tell
students, but they just don'tget it.
And I'm, they're like, it wouldbe great if there was a game.
So I'm like, oh, let me thinkabout, it.
And so that's gonna be my nextone.
(31:11):
So If you wanna check that outuh, you know, if you wanna gimme
some feedback, insights,participate, you know, just
reach out and I'll tell youanything I know.
I mean, I really will because Ilove sharing the knowledge.
That's what it's about.
for me.
Miguel Sanchez (31:25):
Thank you, Jacquie.
And I'll be sure to include theinformation on the show notes
and our links that people canfind it and share their thoughts
with you.
Jacquie, thank you very much forsharing your thoughts and your
experiences.
Jacquie Carroll, EdD, AFC (31:38):
Thank you.
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