Unlocking Your Unique Path to Success with Sean Foley

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, this is Jesse Perriman of the Flag Hunters
Golf Podcast.
Thanks for tuning in y'all.
This week we got a special one.
Happy election week here for usin the United States and hope
that everybody gets out, or hasgotten out, to vote and to
realize that your voice matters.

(00:21):
So, going into this week'sspecial one y'all, I'll make
this intro very brief.
It's with Justin, of course, aninstructor at the Tanah Merah
Golf Club, my podcast partnerTanah Merah Golf Club in
Singapore, and our guest on thisweek was Sean Foley, and the
conversation is deep, so just beprepared, as you listen to it,

(00:44):
to do a lot of contemplating.
Sean has done a lot of I cantell a lot of personal work, a
lot of deep introspectivethoughts In a coach in golf.
In my opinion, being a student,I think it's very important for
me to have trust in theinstructor that he or she has

(01:06):
gone down their own personaljourneys and their own personal
evolutions, because there'ssomething very vital to be
shared from teacher to studentin this process, and Sean
exemplifies this very statementin spades and Sean exemplifies

(01:26):
this very statement in spades.
I'm very appreciative of hiscontribution to golf and I'm
very more so impressed with hiscontribution as a human being,
and the combination of bothmakes for, in my opinion, would
be a Jedi master of teaching.
So listen to this conversationwith an open mind and enjoy it.

(01:49):
It's probably going to take afew spins around the Apple
podcast or Spotify podcastbutton to really get what Sean
is trying to say and tocontemplate it and to come back
with some newfound wisdom andsome life skills that you can

(02:10):
apply not only on the golfcourse off as well.
So thanks for tuning in.
Please remember to rate, reviewand subscribe the reviews.
I love, I absolutely love.
You know, feel free to hit meup.
My text number is on thepodcasting directories and, uh,
sean has, uh, his way to get ahold of him, which I will

(02:33):
include in the show notes aswell as Justin.
So cheers everyone and have agreat week.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the Flag Hunters Golf

(02:55):
Podcast.
I am your host, jesse Perryman,along with the instructor
extraordinaire from the TanimuraGolf Club.
Instructor extraordinaire fromthe Tanimera Golf Club.
His name is Justin Justin Tang,my good friend, my fellow
co-host, partner and generalcommiserator, and today we've

(03:16):
got a very special man who'sbeen a deep influence in the
golf instructional space.
And when you hear the wordsthat come out of his mouth, I'm
sure that you're going to comeaway with some really good
nuggets and contemplative thingsto think about and apply to
your game.
And his name is Sean Foley.
Sean.
Welcome, bud, justin.
Thanks, pal.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Thanks for having me, boys.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Thanks Jesse, Thanks Sean.
I just want to say this I spentthe last weekend, about two
weeks ago, with Sean Foley andit was a life-changing
experience and for all of youserious about getting a better
golf game and living a betterlife, I would say this Do

(04:00):
whatever you can to spend sometime with Mr Foley in person.
I used to think that there wasa Mount Rushmore of golf coaches
.
Sean was there, along withButch Harmon and Pete Cowan.
As I delved deeply and thoughtabout his impact on me that

(04:23):
weekend, I realized that there'salso a Mount Rushmore of life
coaches and Sean is right upthere.
You know, Sean, you evolvedfrom swing coach to performance
coach and now you prefer to beknown as a mentor who used to be
a swing expert.
When did that change take place?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I don't think change and evolution are necessarily
synonyms, right?
So you know we're constantlyevolving.
I mean you could argue too thatthere's probably de-evolution,
but there's, I think, anevolution that every time you're
wrong once you can kind of getover it in your ego you realize

(05:10):
that that failure, thosemistakes that you made are just
ladders to the next floor.
And so I think I've always beenfairly deep.
Ever since I was a little kid,I've asked a lot of questions,
always very curious, even if insociety we try to remedy that

(05:32):
curiosity, right.
Like I can remember clearly asa child hearing you're too
curious and curiosity killed thecat, right.
And so let's just create abunch of robots who consume
things, who never reallymanifest any kind of true
purpose within themselves, butas long as they have a nice car,
their kids go to a nice collegeand they look happy enough,

(05:55):
then that's probably the wayright.
So I think what happens as youget older and I'm still doing it
, I'll probably do it till thelast time I take a breath I'm
still unlearning.
Everything I've been taught andeverything that I taught myself
was important.
So I think that unlearningprocess is, you know, we've been

(06:16):
, we've been deluged with somuch information, whether it's
about the golf swing or it'sabout life, where it's about
politics or economics or youname it, and so you know if you
see a 350 pound guy in the gym,he has a six pack.
You just can't see it yet.

(06:37):
So I don't always know if it'sabout adding.
I think often it's aboutstripping it, stripping it away.
And so I'd say, with the golfswing, now I can't really tell
you what's right, but I have avery good idea of what's wrong,
and most of the time when peopleare coming to us for help with
their swing, either one, theyphysically can't do it and we
need to realize that right.
To physically make the golfswing that Adam Scott makes you

(06:59):
have to be a very elegant mover,very strong, have great
mobility and then, more thanthat, you know the cool thing
about seeing Adam at thePresident's Cup.
It reminds me of when I watchedJustin Rose, now from down the
range rather than behind him,the way these guys still go
about their craft.
It looks like they're having ahard time paying the rent.

(07:21):
It doesn't look like they'resitting on $100 million, right.
They literally look like theyhaven't accomplished anything
yet.
And I think that that's the.
You know, that kind ofdetermination and love for the
game and desire to be the bestyou can be.
I don't think you can teachthat.
I think you can only be anexample of what that is.
So you know, as we're on thisroad, we're going to take a lot

(07:45):
of wrong turns, um, buthopefully we get enough down
that to realize that it makes nosense to keep going that way
and to have to go back.
And so, you know, I think, whenyou get to a level, because of
the vulnerability you've had inthe introspection and reflection
, when you share that with a lotof people, I'm not really

(08:07):
telling anyone how to live, I'mjust kind of sharing.
You know, this is this issomething I've always looked
into, this is something I'vealways done and it's really
helped me a lot.
And so you know, as we noticedlast week weekend in Vietnam,
you know you got people fromSingapore, canada, america,

(08:30):
japan, india, china, what, what,what is different about any of
us?
That really, when you look atthe, when you look at the
structure of a human being,there's no difference.
So the difference is only thestyle of the person, but the
dynamics that connect us all areidentical.
And so I don't think you canargue that.

(08:50):
So here we are in America todayon the verge of the election,
and both sides have beendivisive, obviously one side
much more than the other, but Idon't think you could actually
explain to me that we'repotentially even separate at all
, like not even separate.
So yeah, I just I think thatthat's kind of you know.

(09:15):
The thing about the swing is themore time you look at the swing
, then I spent more time withphysio, with physios and tyros
and movement experts, to realizelike this theoretical model I
had in my head was probably notcapable.
And so what should you know?
If you are coaching golf, right, you should understand

(09:36):
elementary physics it's not muchmore than that Human movement,
anatomy and physiology,obviously, ball flight and
geometry, and then how togenerate velocity, and so I
think everyone can be doing that, but looking differently doing

(09:57):
it, and then we think that it'sthe look, that's the thing,
whereas it's really not.
So if you put a Lamborghiniengine in a Ford car, you have a
Lamborghini, and if you put aFord engine in a Lamborghini,
then you have a Ford.
Right, so you're only as goodas what's with is is what's with
.
You know of what's inside ofyou, but we spend so much time

(10:19):
being concerned about what theoutside is doing concerned about
what the outside is doing?

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Why do you think there's this fixation on the
look of the Sun in all youryears of interacting with
players and coaches of differinglevels.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Well, why is there so much an issue of different
sects of Christianity thinkingthat the other one is wrong, and
why is there an effect in Islamand in Buddhism, and why is
there a Republican Party andthen a far right wing?
That, like you see, what I'msaying To me, I think, as it
relates to the swing and whereI've been responsible and guilty

(11:01):
of that is that, at the end ofthe day, it's what the ball is
doing, right, and so we've allseen a beautiful shot.
But it's not to say that thatbeautiful shot has been created
by, you know, by the, by aperfect looking move.
And so I think that, of course,as human beings, you know from
day one, it's apparent that howwe look and the way we look is

(11:25):
going to benefit us in life, andso it has to be more a function
of vanity and ego than of itbeing anything more than that
right, being concerned about howsomething looks when it works
really well.
You know, well, um, you knoweveryone.

(11:46):
You know you take your car, say,you have a nice car and it's
dirty, and you take it to get acar wash and all of a sudden it
seems like it looks better.
Right, so it's still the samecar but it looks cleaner to the
outside world, right?
I mean, because the fact isyou're, you're driving it
because of what's under the hood, and then you're living in it.

(12:06):
But so I don't think we can betribally.
As human being, the way we lookand how we look has a lot to do
with our success in the tribefrom an evolutionary standpoint,
right.
So of course we could fall downthat road of looks good goes
bad.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Would you also say that it's due to a lack of
explanatory power of someone'ssystem or process.
So if you're teaching golf at avery rudimentary level, then I
don't think your system wouldhave the ability to explain why
Jim Furyk's swing works, forexample.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yes, and I would say that if you looked at Jim's
swing man when that club startscoming down and gets kind of
from ribcage to ribcage,downswing and follow through,
you could see why he hit itstraighter than anybody in his
generation, right?
But I think if you look at ittoo, you could also see why, as

(13:11):
a fairly tall man, he didn't hitit that far.
So it you see what I'm saying.
You you could see exactly ifyou know where you're looking.
You look at it and you're justlike wow, no wonder he found the
middle of the face, like everysingle time.
But you could also look at itand you're just like wow, no
wonder he stay on the middle ofthe face, like every single time
.
But you could also look at itand go, well, that's why he also
didn't hit it as far right.
So I think today's game is aboutreally doing both right.

(13:39):
It's uh, it's incredible to seethese kids coming out of
college and how far all of themhit it right and how high they
can all hit it.
So the model swing in 1975,when you had to hit it dead in
the middle of the fairway andwhere accuracy super mattered.
Obviously distances alwaysmattered, but accuracy was more

(14:03):
pivotal when the fairways weretighter and the rough was longer
.
And now you look at today's dayand age of bomb and gouge, you
know the swing isn't overlydifferent, but it is being
taught differently, right,because it's being taught to max
out clubhead speed as well.

(14:24):
And so can I do that if I getto the top and my right elbow is
connected to my body.
I mean, I would argue that thatwould be more difficult.
So it's kind of trying to marryboth worlds.
And now, with today's day andage, you know we've been able to
measure what's actuallyhappening, right, so I'm able to
really leave the thinking downto other people like Sasha

(14:47):
McKenzie and Mark Bull, whereasI know the person in front of me
.
If I can get them to improvetheir ball striking but also
improve their understanding ofthemselves, I think that that's
just going to be way morepivotal to mentor a 21-year-old
who's already playing at a topD1 school and trying to inspire

(15:11):
them or give them a roadmap orsome structure on how they
become a professional.
You know how many players usered light, how many players cold
plunge, how many playersmeditate, how many players
exercise.
How many players watch whatthey eat, how many players focus
on hydration.
So, look, you can swing it,awesome.
But as soon as you getdehydrated and your cortisol

(15:33):
levels are too high, you're notgoing to perform at all.
So I feel that I've learnedenough now about all those to be
able to help a playerunderstand it, but also know the
people that they can speak to,who are true experts in those
fields.
Right, so I've studied enoughto where I understand the
importance of it, but I'm alwayscareful on the difference

(15:57):
between being able to speak tosomeone and sound really smart
and then being able to givesomeone something that's
applicable and foundational.
And this is what you do, movingforward, right.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
So a lot of things to unpack in the last three
minutes.
What you're saying is with moreinformation these days.
Now you need not trade offbetween distance and accuracy as
they used to do in the past.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well, a good example was still going to be a
trade-off, right, I mean basedon the cone is when the ball's
moving faster, it's just goingto go.
Uh, you know it's going to gomore offline, right, and maybe
the equipment has had a lot todo with that.
Maybe if we were still hittinga persimmon driver with a tour
balada, we wouldn't have reallywent down that road as much,
right, because it would havewent maybe too far offline, not

(16:47):
sure and you said something thatreally really strikes a chord
with jesse and myself.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
you're basically saying that the swing is just
one part of the tournamentwinning equation, and that's not
something that coaches at yourlevels necessarily talk about
openly, either because maybethey don't look at things like
that, or they just don't want todivulge their secrets see if I

(17:29):
had, if I had an actual secret,um, I might be on above musk and
bezos on forbes richest manlist.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Um, I, I look, I mean I look for it.
Trust me, I'm fucking.
I probably still, once in awhile, you know, in from a place
of insecurity, still look forit.
But uh, that I guess thebiggest secret is that there is
no secret.
Right, it's everybody,everybody has a lock and you
just got to help them find thekey, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
I think, sean, I got a comment on something you said
about.
You know, we're looking at thisthing holistically and the golf
swing is a part of it at thisthing holistically, and the golf
swing is a part of it, it's abig part of it.
But she mentioned other thingsas well, other intangibles that
are not necessarily talked about, particularly in the main
golfing periodicals.
I'm not going to mention any ofthem by name, but one starts

(18:18):
with a G and it ends with a D.
We'll leave it at that, andthere's a lot of misinformation
out there.
But what's interesting is nowyou're coming out and saying
players, yes, the golf swing's abig part of it, but how you
manage yourself, hey, manageyourself off the golf course.
You mentioned something thatI've never heard any instructor

(18:40):
say, sean, and that is you'renot going to perform well if
you're dehydrated or yourcortisol levels are high, and I
feel like that's a foundationalstatement right there, my
brother, how do you manage yourcortisol levels when you're
under the gun?
And that's something that needsto be discussed even more
deeply and as intricately as wehave gone down the golf swing

(19:04):
effervescent rabbit hole.
That's such a huge part.
The greats did it.
The greats knew how to managetheir cortisol levels, whether
it was via breathing or whateverit was.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Acceptance- I think the thing that we're the most in
our society, the thing thatwe're the most divulged from, is
proper sleep.
You know, and just just just goand have, you know, have four
or five good sleeps in a row,right, and then the next three
nights only give yourself threehours, and so even the time you

(19:40):
fall asleep that's going toaffect it.
But just you know, do that fora week, sleep three hours a
night, and then the next weeksleep well and tell me how
different your life is.
Because I think that obviouslywe're projecting reality from
inside of ourselves.
So if I'm in a shit mood, ifI'm, you know, for all these

(20:01):
physiological reasons as well,right, I think sometimes when we
look at psychology, we don'tgive physiology enough credit.
So, are you getting enoughsunlight?
Are you getting enough exercise?
Are you breathing properly?
You know these things like, areyou resting well?
And so the problem with theidea of hard work is, like, as a

(20:23):
theory, it's really flawed,right, there's so many people
who work their ass off and don'tmove forward, so it's.
And then there's the next segueinto, like, what smart work is,
but who can really define whatthat is for any individual?
It can't be that unique?
Because I don't really thinkwe're that unique, right?
So when people like, hey,everyone's different we are, but

(20:44):
we're not way different, right?
Especially from a physiologicalstandpoint, there's not too
many people who have smokedcigarettes their whole life and
breathe well, that's just themath of smoking cigarettes.
I'm not saying you should oryou shouldn't.
I know some people love smokingand for them a life without
smoking wouldn't have been alife.
That's their choice, right?
Who's to say what a good lifeis?

(21:04):
Right?
So it's funny how I was sittingthere yesterday.
It's amazing how automatic weare in how we defend ourselves
in certain situations.
So this lady was saying thather mother had died, and so I
was like oh man, that's.
You know, my parents are stillhere.
So I don't really know whatthat is, yet I can.

(21:24):
I can tell you oh, you know,I'll be grateful.
They had such a great life,they were unbelievable people.
But I have no idea how it'sgoing to hit me yet, right, the
reality of that moment.
So I don't speak from, I don'tspeak from a place that I don't
understand or try not to, right,I'm definitely getting better
at it, and so the instantcomment from the person next to

(21:45):
me was how old was she, right?
So here comes the validation ofdiscomfort oh, she was 92.
Oh well, she lived a good longlife, right.
And then the lady said, well,she really struggled with
depression for the last threedecades and I fucking, I almost

(22:06):
fell over.
I was like holy shit, like thatjust happened, right.
So there's so many ways that weare that we're just defending
ourselves from feeling this pain, but most often it's the pain
that's imperative in the growththat we need to have Now.
Pain is not a choice.
Suffering is potentiallyoptional right.
And I don't mean if you'regrowing up in a war-torn.

(22:29):
I'm not talking about that, I'm, you know.
I'm not talking about cancer,I'm talking about within
ourselves, not theseuncontrollables that are
complete variables.
We have no control of right.
So you know and you'll hearpeople say that on tour you know
, control what you can control.
Well, think about that.
What does that even mean?
And, and it's like it's onething to learn it, it's another

(22:51):
thing to realize that so much ofwhat we do is just this
automated computer program.
So we have to introspectivelybe very, very, very deep, deep,
deep about that and and whatthat is.
So what if you're playing golffor other people?
What if you're playing golf forother people?
What if you're playing golf formoney?
What if you're playing golf?
I've seen so many players get tothe precipice of greatness and

(23:13):
then fall off and then, when yougo back to the example of Adam
Scott and Justin Rose, they haddone the same things outside of
themselves and maybe lostthemselves from time to time,
but they still came back to thegame you know, and that love for
the game and the endlesschallenge that it is.

(23:34):
So when we know this is anendless challenge, but we speak
from a place of certainty, we'rein trouble.
Right, because I can say now Iunderstand so much more than I
did 10 years ago.
But 20 years ago I was neverreally bad at getting people to
hit the ball better.
It's just something I've alwaysbeen able to do.

(23:55):
The reason the reasons may havechanged, but the ultimate like
the sell of the whole thing wasthat I enjoy watching people
grow, I enjoy being right and Ienjoy seeing people feel like
they accomplished something andfeeling like a small part of
that.
That's always been uniform, thewhole time, right?

(24:16):
So sometimes the informationwas helping people, sometimes
the information was meprotecting myself in front of
the media and no one knows whatthat's like to be the camera on
you all the time, and so youknow when they make comments or
they DM you or they speak from aplace of like you should have

(24:38):
done this.
It's like man.
You have no idea what that waslike, and so I think that's how
you deal with the criticism is,unless it was someone going
directly through it.
Even in Tiger's case, evenButch Harmon couldn't say he
knew what it was like, becauseyou know, butch, he worked with
a 17 year old Tiger Woods andbrought him and helped and
helped him to become thegreatest player ever.

(25:00):
It's a different day when youstart with someone a year after
they've been divorced and yourealize that their image was
completely different in manyways than the truth.
That's just so.
How do you unpack that?
But you do what you can right.
You do.
You do the best that.
You do the best you can at thattime and as long as as you can
say to yourself you did best,even if it didn't work out, then

(25:23):
you don't have any regrets,right, and so regret is
something that I just I feellike you want to live without
that right, because it's justalways floating around in that
universe of your mind and it'smaking decisions on your behalf.
So you got to be free.
You got to be able to say fuckit, you know, I'm doing my best
here, and then realize that ifyou're not the right person,

(25:46):
then just fall on the sword asquick as possible.
And that's something Iobviously wish that I had done
before.
But look, we'd never be.
We're all where we're at todaybecause of all the days that
preceded it.
So we have to be grateful forthe good and the shit.
You know, when we talk aboutgratitude, it's always about our

(26:06):
family, our life.
And what about?
What?
About the the time ofexistential fuck ups that I had
from 20 to 24 years old?
I mean, I look back now.
That's what I should be themost grateful for, because you
know, that took kind of a giftedkid who had a nice energy, who
was a complete disaster, and itmade me really look in the

(26:27):
mirror.
And then also, at the samepoint, I learned this incredible
work ethic during that time,because I was so broken and so
much debt that I had to workthree jobs a day, had to Right
Absolutely.
So what.
I look at that now and now I goon this trip to Vietnam.
So I mean, before I come to seeJustin in Vietnam, I'm In Miami

(26:54):
, then North Carolina, thenNorth Carolina, then to JFK.
31 hours later I get to Vietnam.
Get to Vietnam Not overlyaffected by jet lag, feel like
I'm just observing and enjoyingthe experience.
Meet all these fantastic guyswho are very challenging from a

(27:14):
intellectual manner.
I couldn't do all that Like youhave to be.
At what people talk aboutperseverance and grit.
You know these are the fancywords, right?
You got to have grit, you gotto if I love something, right?
So love is the foundation, oracceptance is the foundation of

(27:36):
love.
So, if I accept, this trip isgoing to pose a lot of
existential challenges that Ihave no control of.
Okay, I fully know that now.
So if you put a drone on methat whole trip, the drones on
me the whole time, you're nevergoing to see me lose my head one
time, not one time, okay.

(27:57):
Now the only time that youmight see me lose my head is
when I've over explainedsomething and I'm like sean, get
to the fucking point here, bud,you see, but flight delays, am
I gonna miss the flight?
Then we we're, we're in Vietnam, literally in the typhoon Right

(28:18):
Like literally in the typhoon.
And the thing is, this resortwas so sick.
So when I got there I was like,oh man, those waves were like
10 to 15 feet.
I was like I'm going swimming,I'm doing this.
Then I look and I see a redflag and it's like, oh so if I
go swimming here, I'm going toend up in Miami.

(28:38):
So I'm not going to go swimming.
But you just go with what is infront of you.
It doesn't matter what Ithought it would be.
I don't even spend that muchtime even going there.
Because what if I project thisidea of what it's going to be
and I get there and then it'snot?
Then I'm going to be frustrated.
But the fact of the matter isthat my frustration came from

(29:00):
the image of something I'd neverexperienced happening.
So I'm the reason I'mfrustrated.
It's not outside of me and Ithink when you deeply understand
that, you know life, it doesn'tmake life that much easier, but
it's certainly not harder.
And and and that's I'm, I'm,I'm not in for you know I'm, I'm
in for a.
I think that's imperative.

(29:23):
So getting a player tounderstand that when he is upset
or she is upset at slow play,that they're.
They're the one defining time,they're the one who is slowing
it down.
It's like I say to them all thetime have you ever noticed
that's a big thing I had to workon with Ben on?
Ben on is the fastest player inthe world and guys love playing
with him because he's so fast.

(29:44):
Now, I think he's so fastsometimes that he makes some
decision mistake, right?
So sometimes telling someone toslow down isn't necessarily a
terrible thing, right,contemplate what you have to do.
But Bennett just said man, likeso slow, did you see how slow
that guy was?
I was like, have you evernoticed that once you recognize
that they're slow, that they geteven slower?

(30:05):
And so I think that, like, wecan get to where we have 182
ball speed and hit nice ironshots, but if, if he's going on
the course on the PGA tour everyday and he has an issue with
slow play, we're not succeeding,right?
I mean, that would be likebeing Navy seal and you just
don't like when they startthrowing grenades, that's war

(30:26):
man, they throw grenades.
So you, that's understandingwhat you're doing.
It is like that's understandingwhat you're doing.
It is like I'm playing pro golf.
It is slow On Friday, peopleare drunk and obnoxious and yell
in my backswing.
I think booby traps and war arebullshit, but they happen and no

(30:46):
one calls the lieutenant andgoes.
You wouldn't believe they put abooby trap on the children's
toy.
Yeah, you should have probablychecked there.
Does that make sense?
Like, how can you be in themarket, how can you be a trader
and be upset that the market'sdown?
It's just fucking what it does.
It's what it does.
So have your principles right.

(31:08):
We all need to create in ourlife a perspective that ends up
being an anchor, because whenthe seas start to get really
crazy, it's going to feel likewe're going to capsize.
But because we know we have ananchor, we just have to deal
with the uncomfort of thatfeeling.
But that's okay because at somepoint that storm's going to be
over and it's going to be blewout and the seas will be perfect

(31:31):
.
So when we're going through alot of really difficult things
in our life, we just have tounderstand that most of the time
it just feels worse than it isat the moment.
And think about the two of you.
How many times you can lookback to a time in life where you
know you were so struggling andyou look back now and you
giggle that you got so upsetabout that.

(31:53):
So I think you know these arethe things that are important,
because all of my players in oneyear are going to have golf be
incredibly easy and then, formost of the time, incredibly
difficult, and you can work witha guy to where the videos look
the same, the numbers on thetrack man are the same and their
results just are not near asgood.
I don't have an answer for that.

(32:15):
I don't.
I really don't have an answerfor that.
My goal at that time is not tofucking keep digging deeper into
the wrong direction, you know.
So it's having your principles,having your drills, having your
your stuff.
That that's your anchor.
So what, what, what?
What does your anchor look like?
So I think sometimes sportsperformance is too much about,

(32:36):
you know, being the best versionof yourself and manifesting
greatness and all that.
Ok, great, but how good are yougoing to be when it's shit?
That's really the key, right?
Yep, because it's going to be.
It's just the game is too hardand life is too difficult and in
order for me to have a veryeasy going day as I'm traveling

(32:58):
across the world.
You know how many things I haveto go my way, that I have no
influence on, about a billion.
I mean, I'm sitting in theairport and this guy's like
can't believe my luggage is nothere yet and I'm like how can
you not believe that?
It's just like normal?
It's like all the time, how cancan you?
How can the guys like man, Ican't believe how rude people
are.
Where have you been, bro?

(33:19):
You've been in the jungle.
Like what are you Tarzan?
So I think that's a big thingis, when you get stressed and
you get upset, ask yourself howmuch you are authoring that
essay.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
So that's inside out thinking.
Sean, can you let us share withour listeners how long it took
you to get to that state?
Because, man, thanks to thattyphoon, I spent the weekend
with you and you're right.
The the day it was announcedthat the airport was closed, you
had a smile in your face.
I I was actually very surprised.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
And we had a grand old time drinking beer.
Man, Jesse, the thing is I hadto go from Vietnam to Japan to
do something in Japan.
And look, if you told24-year-old Sean Foley that he
was going to be doing speakingengagements in Vietnam and Japan
, I'd have been like why would Ibe doing that?

(34:17):
What does that mean?
Right, so it's nothing I reallywent after.
It just kind of came as Ievolved, and so as you start to
evolve, what you attract isprobably going to change as well
.
And so when I heard that theairport was canceled, I just
started laughing because I mean,what's my other option?
It's like I feel so bad forthese people in Japan who've

(34:38):
invested all this money and timein bringing me and trust me.
If I get there they won't belet down at all.
I'm going to under-promise andover-deliver every single time.
That is the math of being aFoley.
My dad's taught me that since Iwas a little boy.
But the two days I'm in Vietnam, they closed the airport.

(34:58):
How many times do airportsclose anywhere in the world?
For 31 hours, it just doesn'thappen.
So by the time I got to Japan,the people that picked me up at
the airport so I'm likeliterally the only flight that
gets out.
So I mean, that's a miracle onits own is I get to Japan and uh
, the, the lady who was pickingme up at the airport and and uh,

(35:21):
her friend.
They were so relieved youshould have seen how stressed
they look, right, and I.
I smiled and I said can I, canI teach you something?
And she said, yeah.
I said about 98% of the timewhen we worry deeply about
something, it never changes theoutcome of that thing.
It just ruins our day until werealize what actually happened.
And so I had to.

(35:43):
I had to look, this isn'tsomething I was born with.
All this shit, I had to learnto deal with my own terrible
impersonation of what was goingon out there, right, and so
being cynical and being this way, even though cynicism felt
moral and justified andintelligent, I'm skeptical of
everything I hear, but I'm notcynical of the human.

(36:04):
I don't think it's ever beenbetter.
I don't think there's ever beena better time to be alive.
But if all you did, you knowwhat I've been doing, like the
last couple of days, when I wentover there to Asia, I decided
to basically as much as I couldstay off my phone, okay.
And then I came home and feltthe need to get up on what's

(36:25):
going on with this election.
And then I'm sitting there lastnight and I just put it on mute
.
I'm like man, this is just somuch noise, right.
Like, guess what's going tohappen.
Whatever's going to happen isgoing to happen.
You can imagine oh, it's goingto be like this, it's going to
be like this.
If we do this, we're going togo this way.
If we do this, we're going togo this way.
Look, america works becauseAmericans work, right, and this

(36:45):
is just the entertainmentsection of the whole thing and
it just is right.
So, blaming other people andblaming the economy on where
you're at in your life, Iappreciate that, but that's not
really the math of the situationright now.
Right, you need to blameyourself.
It's the economy's not terrible, it's not in that place.

(37:07):
This is not the recession.
This is not the housing marketthing.
This is not that.
So how much is propaganda andhow much is true market thing?
This is not that.
So how much is propaganda andhow much is true?
And I think that, whether you'rea trader, whether you're a golf
pro, whether you're apolitician, whether you're a
doctor, I mean there was doctorscompletely against the vaccine
and there was doctors completelyfor the vaccine, and so you I

(37:28):
mean I don't know about you,jesse or Justin, but my
understanding of germ theory isnot that great.
So I'm sitting there readingboth articles and I'm like, fuck
, they both feel right.
Yeah, they both feel right.
And so, because they bothprobably are right to some
extent, right.
But when we, when we look atwhat makes the noise, is, this

(37:49):
vaccine is here to save yourlife and at the CDC, we're
perfect and we never make amistake and we have no corporate
corruption whatsoever.
Ok, so there's that one that'slike way out here, and that's
the other one is they're puttingmicrochips in our bodies so
they can track us.
It's like, ok, well, both ofthose don't feel very good.
So you know somebody saying, ifyou want to hit the ball way

(38:11):
better and you have a neutralgrip, you need to cup your left
wrist as much as you can.
That's probably not going to bea very good idea, unless you're
short sighted in the bunker.
So it has its place.
But then someone saying, well,if you want to be great, you've
got to bow it and side bend.
Ok, well, that's not trueeither.
So I think it's.
I think the best part aboutstaying at the fringes is really

(38:33):
working from what you know isnot right and then moving more
back into the center of well,this does make sense.
So if you were, if you hadchildren, then arguably then the
vaccine is unimportant.
If you have parents veryimportant.
If you have comorbidities veryimportant.
If you're healthy, you're good.
So I got to the point where itmade sense to me in the

(38:57):
decisions that I made.
So I feel like the golf swingis very much along those lines
as well.
You can see Scotty Schefflerand Victor Hovland, arguably two
of the best ball strikers inthe world.
I don't think they could befurther apart on the spectrum of
movement, but impact they'repretty much the same.
So how do we get everyone totheir version of what impact is?

(39:21):
It's?
So?
It's still to this day, man.
It's still so tricky.
I was doing some skilllesslessons yesterday with a 13
handicap, just feeling sodepressed that I cannot help
this guy through the Internet.
But but I don't, I mean I lose.
I had like a shitty hour.
I'm getting it so in my headabout this guy who does really

(39:43):
nothing, to my final line as itrelates to revenue, who I'm
never going to meet in person,probably, but it's driving me
crazy that I can't get him tounderstand this backswing.
But I don't know that if he'ssitting on Instagram and going
to the range and trying to do 60different things each day,
looking for a secret.
So I just have to stay withwhat I know I think will benefit

(40:04):
him and then be stern about it.
And then it comes back.
As you know, I haven't reallypracticed for three weeks and
I'm like, oh so, but I'm stillbeating myself up about that all
these years in when I lose that.
That's the last time I'll evergive a lesson because it
shouldn't matter that much.
But I shouldn't say that Idon't think it matters, but it

(40:25):
means a great deal and I thinkthat you know there's a
difference between somethingmeaning everything and mattering
.
So the way my pros play golfgolf it means a lot to me.
But if they won the first twomajors next year and in between
the third major my wife wasdiagnosed with cancer I'd
realize that it doesn't fuckingmatter.
You know, so it, you know.

(40:46):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (40:51):
you know, you?
You said something that thatresonated deeply.
We might not be where we wantto be, but we are precisely
where we are supposed to be.
Can you share that wisdom withour listeners?
I think it's got so muchapplication to not just golf but
life.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Oh, I mean, yeah, I don't know where I heard that or
read it.
Most of the things that I say Ididn't come up with, obviously,
but where we're supposed to be.
And so I think, like Ben on andI, when we started, ben was the

(41:32):
new father, was putting anaddition on his house.
It kind of got lazy.
He was kind of cruising, supergifted player, so can cruise a
bit.
We start making some dramaticchanges.
I don't understand his workethic yet that we're not
communicating well, boom, nextthing, you know, we lose our

(41:53):
card.
Right, we're not communicatingwell, boom, next thing, you know
, we lose our card, right.
I'll never forget walking tothat car rental in Indiana when
he lost his card was literallythe low point of my career.
Um, within myself, because itit hadn't really, you know it,
it hadn't really occurred to methat that could happen.
Um, so that's arrogance, thatcould happen.

(42:19):
So that's arrogance, it couldeasily happen.
Right, I realize now.
And so that's just when we hada.
You know, that's when we had atête-à-tête and Ben said, you
know, I'm gonna take a coupleweeks off.
And I said, no, I'll see youtomorrow morning at 8am.
And we need to figure this outBecause we're shit, can't stand
it and I it's.
It's the worst.

(42:39):
So that's when we startedbankers hours and created
structure in his program andkept working towards the same
thing and working towards thesame thing, and working towards
the same thing, working towardsthe same thing.
Then I'm sitting in a room withJustin after I gave my speech
and then I forgot they were evenplaying in the tournament.
Old Sean's literally not goingto be able to give a speech

(43:02):
because he's going to want tolook at his phone, so bad, to
see if we birdied or parred thelast par 5.
Like I used to be on ShotTracker, jesse, like a crack
addict I mean like a crackaddict.
I mean my shit would be shaking, I would be hitting refresh,
I'd be yelling at the app andguess what?
All that never changed thescore right, ever, never.

(43:23):
And my wife one time pointedout to me she's like yeah, I
don't think you should be on theshot tracker anymore.
I'm like, okay, good, good,good talk, right, um, but this
attachment is very important, um, for human beings.
So when we lost our card, wewere where we're supposed to be.
And when he wins in Korea thatday, he's where he's supposed to

(43:43):
be, and when he gets to the top10 in the world, he's where
he's supposed to be.
And so those are two completelydifferent Ben-ons from losing
the card to the guy now.
Those are two completelydifferent Ben-ons from losing
the card to the guy now.
One is a mature, efficient andreally, really focused on health
and training, and I think he'sprobably lost 30 pounds since

(44:08):
then.
We hit the ball much furtherthan we used to, he putts better
than he used to, and so we'vebeen consistent with the message
and then just supportive andconsistently bringing back the
reminder that in the last weekof our life, none of this shit

(44:29):
that we're doing right now arewe going to even think about or
address right now are we goingto even think about or address.
So just know that's true.
Know that the reasons that youwill remember your life, um in a
good way or a bad way willprobably come from family
relationships and things of thatmatter and and what you did to
your health, um, I just don'tthink that anybody's going to

(44:50):
think about that trophy thatthey held um that often.
And I think what happens iswhen we see guys win more and
more and more.
The more and more they win theless feeling they have with it.
And so you know, we need toenjoy our life, but in order to

(45:10):
enjoy it, we probably have to doa lot of things that we don't
necessarily enjoy doing, andthat's where discipline takes
the place of passion.
And so we're at where we'resupposed to be.
America is where they'resupposed to be.
Today, right On this day,america is where it's supposed
to be.
There's been a ridiculousamount of misinformation,

(45:34):
information.
There's been a ridiculousamount of propaganda.
There's been a ridiculousamount of partisan mathematics
used to employ mistrust onpeople that we got.
We got Israel happening.
We got Ukraine happening.
We created Israel.
It's like we are exactly wherewe're supposed to be today in
this complete show of a moment.
That's it, right.

(45:57):
The discussions, absence of love, absence of support, one side,
gaslight issues that are superimportant.
It's just really tricky, right,like the whole thing.
I'm not saying that it's asimple solution, but we are

(46:22):
where we're supposed to be.
So the guy who's in great shapeis where he's supposed to be.
The guy who's not in greatshape is where he's supposed to
be.
It's when we think we merealign with.
If we're not, then I'm doingsomething wrong or they're doing
something wrong.
So am I not congruent with mymessage?

(46:46):
Am I spending enough time withthem?
Am I too busy chasing otherthings?
Are they working as hard asthey were when they were
succeeding things?
Are they working as hard asthey were when they were
succeeding where it's all thatright?
So I just think it's a good wayto kind of the idea of I'm at
where I'm supposed to be.
Last year at this time I wasgoing in for a knee surgery,

(47:08):
ended up finding out that I hadrheumatoid arthritis and and
gout, and so I didn because weweren't treating it properly.
It never got better because wedidn't know what to treat.
And then I started tounderstand what to treat, went
deep down the dark web intopotential treatments that I've
never heard about in the West,knowing that we live in a

(47:28):
pharmaceutical industrialcomplex where I think one of the
things that people learn in medschool is how to write
prescriptions is.
We're not, you know, we're notdeeply thinking about problems.
What, how come?
How does the autoimmune, howdoes something autoimmune occur?
So look everywhere you can atwhat could potentially cause
autoimmune issues, what is apotential way to treat it?

(47:50):
So now I'm sitting here inbetter health than I was at 35,
because I'm where I'm supposedto be.
So when I was there last year,I said to myself okay, I'm where
I'm supposed to be, but is thissomething that I have to accept
and be here, or is thissomething that I can address and
improve upon?
So that's kind of nonstop Jesserunning in my head all the time

(48:13):
, like it doesn't.
I probably spend more timethinking about my players than I
do about my own kids.
You know, I don't think that'sa.
I don't think that's a badthing, but I think that the
thing about being a good dad ora good coach is having love for

(48:33):
who you're dealing with, andthat doesn't mean it's going to
make you perfect.
I've made a bunch of mistakes.
I mean my son, who's 16, dropsF-bombs all the time.
He didn't learn it anywhereelse, right, so, but, but, but,
but, but the.
You know, the funny thing toois that you know we go to these
things and we listen tocomedians and all they do is

(48:56):
swear and we laugh our ass off.
And then when a teacher inschool swears, we say oh, you're
gone.
It's like there's too manymisalignments in our message.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Double standards.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
So that's, that's kind of the idea behind the
supposed to be.
That's kind of the idea behindthe supposed to be, and I think
that probably emanated over timethrough Eastern philosophy and
through Buddhism or Taoism.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
You know coaching is in your lifeblood and when you
were playing college golf inTennessee, you coached your
opponents, boyd Mitchell andSteve Diamond, to a 64 and 65,
to your own detriment.
Have you always been wired tocoach people?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, but trust me, my kids hate it because they're
like dude, I want a dad, not acoach, Right, and I'm like, well
, isn't a dad a coach?
Kind of.
Isn't that actually what he is?
Yeah, but they're over it,right it's.
And I think the thing that'sgreat about them is my oldest
son, quinn, is pretty much myonly professor for the rest of

(50:08):
my life, because whenever I dosomething out of what I
didactically speak about, hefucking points it out instantly.
He's like, ah, so much for thewhole inside out thing there, eh
, dad.
So the good part is that one,yes, when I'm not perfect, and
two, at least some of it'sgetting in there, you know.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
You got to love your kids.
They're the instant truth serum.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Oh the instant truth serum.
Oh, the instant truth serum.
Yeah, the thing is because Ithink they show you deeply where
you're at, because the love isso unconditional and that
there's so much safety withinthe relationship is that you can
literally be the worst versionof yourself in front of them and
think somehow deeply within youthat they need to accept that
because they're your family.
So I think the outside world,like when I go out on my day, it

(51:00):
doesn't even have an ability tochange my heart rate by by one
point, but my kids, man, theystill show me that I'm probably
miles away where I need to be.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I think there's a lot of us that would agree with
that.
Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
But that's the thing is, when I do things like this,
people are sometimes surprisedby the vulnerability or the
admission of of of the fact thatyou recognize all these things
within yourself.
That's imperative, like that's.
You know that.
That that's imperative, likethat's.
You know that.
That that's imperative, youknow.
Um, it it takes, you know it.

(51:39):
It takes.
It takes courage, like Iremember in my early 20s when I
started kind of unlearninghistory and economics and stuff
like that, I was so pissed offall the time that I'd been so so
lied to um in so many ways.
But now I just look back at itand realize that most people
were doing their best from theirown level of understanding and

(52:01):
I think when you understand thatthat that that creates, you
know that decreases conflict andthat's really what it's about,
right?
I don't want to have conflict.
There's a reason.
There is a conflict, all right.
So how unavoidable,mathematically, is a conflict?
So I would say every majorworld conflict we're having

(52:22):
right now is completelyavoidable.
But you have to remove history,you have to remove religion and
you have to remove, you have toremove greed and power.
So people just believe whatthey want to believe, right?
So buddies in my neighborhood,they're like you know, this
needs to be a Christian nationagain.

(52:43):
And it's like, guys, thefounding fathers were so against
that and you quote them as theywere for that.
They were deists at best.
So let's like I'm not sayingthat's a terrible thing, I'm not
saying anything.
I'm not saying it needs to beanything, but to me, that you
can practice any belief you havein America is one of those
things that separates it fromeverywhere else.

(53:03):
That's what makes it so specialis that we are accepting of the
fact that, of that being thecase.
So when you're saying thatthat's not America, that's not
America at all.
That's not at all whatAmerica's foundation was.
It has nothing to do with theConstitution, has nothing to do
with the founding fathers.
So this is the America you'vecreated in your own mind.

(53:25):
Because do you really careabout America or do you just
care about your place in America?
That's my question.
That's my question, right?
Because if we cared aboutAmerica as a whole, we wouldn't
be feeding our kids all the shitwe are.
We'd ban all these foods thatare banned in other countries.
We'd have way better welfareprograms for children.
There would be so much that wewould be doing if we ultimately

(53:48):
cared about America.
But look, we're survivors,right, we're basically
well-groomed primates.
We're concerned about our placein the tribe, not really the
tribe, right?
So what does that mean?
To care about America?
That means probably to be asocial worker.
It probably doesn't mean to bean investment banker, because

(54:11):
that position is going to affectAmerica wholeheartedly, like.
That's just what I'm saying.
It's it's in golf.
We'll have the same type ofmisinformation leading to this
how many people try to getshallow and how many people try
to get open?
Ok, it's not wrong.
George Gankis is brilliant,it's not wrong.

(54:32):
Right, it's like it is notwrong.
But you know, we have thesedifferent schools of thought.
And so, because Mac O'Gradynever spoke about that, it can't
be right.
Well, that's just religionagain.
Right, that's just religionagain.
I mean how many people?
I mean Mac has probablyinfluenced instruction more than
anyone of all time, but I don'teven think it's close.
But I mean how many playersthat he worked with truly had

(54:55):
the best years of their career?
None of them, right.
Maybe you could say Grant WadeRight, right, but Grant is Grant
.
Grant's brilliant, like that.
Like that really, really worksfor Grant.
But imagine trying to teach BooWeakley that, or even trying to
teach Sebi that he's not wrong.
Ok, so if I, if I said to you,jesse, if you bench, press 225

(55:18):
for 10 reps, you will getstronger, I'm not wrong.
But if you can only bench 110pounds, then I'm potentially
putting you in a place where youcould kill yourself.
So it has to be what's correctin that moment and that you know
.
I think that's the tricky thing.
I probably still make mistakes,that I would say, like the

(55:39):
cardinal sins are kind of over,but I'm still readily making
mistakes by the hour so let'stalk about two hot topics in
golf right now.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
You mentioned being open and shallow.
I want to talk about steepness,angle of attack, as it relates
to the short game.
That was a hot topic.
Open forum 10 let's go, man.
Why is that a hot topic, right?

Speaker 2 (56:06):
how can that be a hot topic?
Right?
How can that be a hot topic?
I think it, as a topic member.
What you're coaching is thereto do one thing is provide you
revenue Revenue right, we're alltrying to make a living, all
right, and of course we're.

(56:26):
Most people coaching golf gotinto it because they enjoy it
and they enjoy watching peopleimprove.
Ok, I think social media hasmade that maybe a little more
tricky, because you can reallybuild a massive brand very
quickly by sounding smart.
Right, so you can learn a lotmore now than we could in our

(56:50):
generation and way quicker,right.
But most of the great stuff Ilearned about warfare was
sitting in a trench for a yearavoiding mortar shells and
sniper fire, so I can't learnthat on paper, right.
So like when to attack?
Right, so like when to attack?

(57:16):
Right, like these kinds ofideas.
So nothing will ever replacetrial and error and being
one-on-one with a human beingand watching and and with a
sensitive mind.
What's helping people?
So short game.
When you finish playing golf,people ask you one thing what'd
you shoot?
All, right, so for most golfers, if all they did was go to the
golf course and brought enoughclubs to play around from 30

(57:39):
yards in, they'd be able to tellpeople they shot better scores.
Okay, yeah, as short gamerelates to the pga tour, it is
the spat that one is measuredthe most improperly because
strokes gained around the green.
None of that was about strokesgained around the green, right.
All that was just about beingsmart, like.

(58:01):
So for me, when you say, look,we, we did some chipping on
force plates, this is what wefound, I mean I get it Like.
Like I like the fact that you,factually, are pointing out that
on force plates, you saw this,but what did you think you were
going to see?
You know what I mean.
Like I hope it wasn't massivepeaks in anything.

(58:26):
So it's.
It's like if force precedesmotion, then what did we think
we were going to see?
So this is a two-hour discussion, an argument between being
shallow versus being steep.
Okay, I think I could teach alot more people to chip like

(58:48):
steve stricker than I could theother way.
Okay, so that's my preferenceis going to be I'm going to
teach more of a Stricker thing,okay, but basically, you have to
look at the person in front ofyou and what are they doing well
, and what are they doing not.
Oh.
So what we do is, when webecome steep chipping coaches or
shallow chipping coaches, wedon't see what's in front of us.

(59:10):
We just see this person needsto be steeper, this person needs
to be shallower.
This person doesn't hit behindthe ball enough.
Is it landing kind of in aregion that they need it to land
in order to roll to the hole,to where they have a makeable
putt, or at least they don'tmake a double, they make a bogey
instead of a double, or theymake a par instead of a bogey.

(59:30):
Right, like we have to start.
We have to start with that.
So, also, like the turf thatpeople grow up on from so many
of the guys who like crazy,crazy short games we're all from
that sand belt in Australia.
You know, green was firm,graham was firm, everything was

(59:52):
like a.
Everything was the greencomplexes were like a bowl.
Okay, so they either smash itinto the mound and learn how to
stop it with with all that,right, or they go upstairs with
it.
But I mean to a fault.
They all could do it.
All great bunker players, littleskittish with the driver.
There was a lot of.
You know, there was a lot ofmovement in here, so we're not

(01:00:17):
going to see for lack of abetter word stiff-wristed.
We don't see many goodstiff-wristed bunker players and
we don't see many loose-wristedgreat iron players, right?
So I would say like, did greatiron players?
Right?
So I would say like, as I'veseen in golf instruction, this
time way on, great players areusing a lot less radial in the

(01:00:37):
backswing than they used to.
Maybe that is a function of theequipment, maybe it is a
function of them, you know, notreally getting overcoached,
don't know.
Okay, but I guarantee you theirarm is still doing the things
that it did when we threw spearsin evolution.
So when somebody is building abusiness on, look at this 16

(01:01:00):
down, look at the spin.
We already know you've alreadysold us this a hundred times.
Okay, I'm not really a shortgame coach, but I can go and hit
down and hit almost up andcreate the same amount of spins.
If I change my interaction inhow open or close the faces to
the pad, one is going to be ahigher shot that stops quicker

(01:01:22):
and one's going to be a lowershot that stops on demand.
What shot do you need?
So imagine on any given day ifwe were able to get attack angle
information.
If a world-class player missednine greens and got up and down
nine times, how different all ofthose would be.

(01:01:42):
So how come we didn't have adiscussion on how to build
better chipping environments forpeople to learn what they're
skilled at and what they're notskilled at?
Because you probably shouldn'tdo something you're not good at
first.
Let's start with that, okay,and then, in order for you to,
you know what, though?
I really can't hit a flop shot.

(01:02:02):
Well, if you want to playbetter golf, you probably need
to know how to hit a flop shot,right.
If it's five down or 16 down,does it matter?
It doesn't matter.
For somebody, being way moredown is going to help them,
because I haven't had that muchshort game coaching.
I'm not sure to what degreethat is.
If we looked at a PGA Tourplayer to a middle pin from 20

(01:02:26):
yards away in the middle of thefairway, what would we see?
We'd probably see somedifferences, but I'm gonna
imagine we're gonna be probablybetween five and eight down.
But then what gives me the down?
Like?
What are the downs?
What are the ups?
Sometimes you can see someoneat impact at four degrees up on
a driver and it's a shit showbecause of that, and sometimes

(01:02:47):
someone's four degrees up andthat's why it's so efficient.
It's not that it's four, it'show you get to four.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
Right, that's what Trent men doesn't tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Well, I made, trust me, I made that mistake a
billion times right.
I remember watching HunterMahan man, oh and Hunter hitting
six down on a three wood and meand the ping guys going that's
not right.
Right should be about one right.
But then I look up in the airand I look at this 257 yard
great launch, plenty of spinover and over same golf shot

(01:03:21):
where he's literally hitting apush draw with only his
attacking.
So is that wrong?
Yeah, could we make it moreefficient?
Sure we could, but how muchcould we lose by trying to do
that?
So if trying to gain 1% or 2%could diminish us by 20%, we're
just not even going to go there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I think a lot of coaches don't understand what
you just said.
They're willing to give up 20%in order to get that one to 2%.
For perfection's sake.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Yeah it.
You know what for a human beinghit a three wood off the deck.
It looked pretty perfect to me,like if I'd never seen a single
number in my life, I'd beenlike, do that, do that?
So that's the.
That's why you got tounderstand the, the numbers.
So yeah, if a guy hits golfballs, boat wristed and his hand

(01:04:16):
pass really out coming down, heprobably doesn't want to try to
hit shallow draws when he'schipping because that's just not
even in his dna.
So then it makes sense.
I get it.
But how many people areactually that way?
So you, you know, last time Ichecked we have a lot of people
who are forced to early extendin a way to decelerate enough

(01:04:37):
that they can have some attemptat squaring the club face.
So what's the differencebetween a pro golfer and an
amateur?
Amateurs love when they hook itand pros don't mind when they
slice it.
They definitely don't want tohook it.
So what's the difference?
One closes the face at muchgreater rates than the other.
So how do we get to where prosmaybe don't close it as much,

(01:05:01):
and how do we get amateurs toclose it?
But you listen to all theseyoung instructors who watch Mike
Bender on the internet and goman, look at what he's coaching.
No, I coach that stuff toeveryone who slices it.
Okay, he has a wait list,probably between now and two
years from now, because a lot ofpeople take lessons, they hit
it better and they tell theirfriends and then their friends

(01:05:23):
come, and then their friends seethem play and they come.
And so you can't be, you can'trun a business like that for all
those years where if you're inthe business of teaching people
how to hit an overdraw, thenamateur golf is going to love
you, right, but within what youdo, do you need to use images of

(01:05:48):
guys who won the lasttournament saying, look, they're
doing it here?
No, you don't, just keep it atwhere it's at.
Just keep it where it's at,right, I don't care who knows if
I'm helping people Right, andthat's the.
That's the tricky thing for menow is like social media is such
a double-edged sword for me.
I mean, you know, justin,you've known about me and people

(01:06:09):
who knew me for a long time.
I mean I was the last to get onthat and I still don't know
where I sit with it.
It's just a tricky thing, butalso it's where today's day and
age is so I mean, you know, whenI told my kids that I was going

(01:06:29):
to give a lesson to GrantHorvat, who's a YouTube golf
sense since all of my son'sfriends were like in off for the
first time that I was giving alesson to Grant Horvat Not, not
a major winner, not a none ofthat, none of that.
A guy who's on YouTube golf, whomakes golf look fun, who's a

(01:06:52):
lovely kid, like great kid,works hard, loves the game.
You know, hats off to him.
But this guy's making biggerdeals from TaylorMade than PGA
Tour players are because he'sgot more eyeballs on it.
Whether I think that that'scorrect or not, it doesn't
really matter, because themarket supports that.

(01:07:12):
That's where we're at.
So I would argue that MicahMorris and Grant Horvat and Rick
Shields and all those guysthey're probably growing golf
more than the PGA of America is.
So I'm in support, right, I'min support.
I want to see everyone do well.
Man, you know what I mean.
I want to see everyone do well,um, because if, if golf is

(01:07:39):
growing, then all of us are in abetter place because of it,
right?
But it was amazing, like tomention that.
And then I looked at the kids.
There's 10 of them in the room.
For some reason, my house islike the spot where they all
want to hang out.
Um, I'm trying to change it, um, by yelling more, but it's not
working.
Um, we've, actually we've losta couple.
They're, they're, they're aboutsix, four, justin, and they're

(01:08:01):
incredibly intimidated by by byme at five foot six.
Um, they left some garbageoutside and I lost my mind on
these kids.
But but that, like that's it,like, why not?
Why do we not want to see?

(01:08:22):
I had to ask myself that at onepoint years ago, like I could
find myself getting pissed offwhen other people were having
success at what I did, and Ijust said, man, you need to get
to the bottom of this, causethis is, this is not good, this
is a problem, this is likecancer.
You know what I mean.
You can't see it, but it's justmetastasizing slowly until it's
too late.
And so how can I not be happyto see people, especially when I

(01:08:48):
?
So it doesn't mean I like you,okay, but I respect what you're
doing for a living, because Iknow what it takes.
I know the amount of work, Iknow the amount of doubt, I know
the amount of pain.
I know the amount of sacrificefrom the family, so I can at
least support you knowing ofwhat it takes.
And ever since that day,regardless of where it is around

(01:09:09):
the world, I'm the first personto text that coach, I'm the
first person to text that caddy,and if I can't find their
number, I'm going to stopwhatever I'm doing to do that.
Well, it doesn't mean I mightnot go to dinner with them, but
yo I can at least respect thefact that they put all of
themselves into this and theysucceeded.
Whether I agree or disagreewith them, it doesn't really

(01:09:30):
matter.
You know that's mature.
You know, when people say youknow you just got to mature,
that's a big word.
Like to be mature?
Right, it's a lot more thanjust saying yeah, he's matured,
no, he's understanding at adifferent level.
It's not really.
I know plenty of 60 year oldswho have not matured at all.

(01:09:52):
It's not like a thing thatmaturity comes with age.
I don't know, man, I can'tnecessarily say that's a
one-to-one ratios.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Agreed.
Another hot topic for splits.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, look, it's just another, it's
another cog in the wheel, right,it's, it's, it's another cog in
the wheel.
But I mean, but it's also right, it's a ground reaction force.

(01:10:30):
So how many people who havecome to me who are 15 handicaps
which is probably 95 percent ofthe people I've coached in my
life Right, how many peoplearen't using the ground right
versus not using the grip right?
Do you know what I mean?

(01:10:57):
Like, yeah, like we, we, we, wedid enough stuff.
When, when david woods and Icreated pro sender, we, I had no
interest.
Like, that's the first timeI've ever been part of a
training aid.
And of course, that trainingaid leads into the accumulators
in the golf machine, right, butlike, I'm never gonna do
something like that to build abrand or to make money off of it
, if it's shit.
I mean, if you knew all thethings I've turned down, which

(01:11:19):
is almost everything, I couldhave made way more money.
But I couldn't see myself on aTV commercial next to that
product.
To do what To like, get a nicerBMW who cares Right.
To do what To like, get a nicerBMW who cares right.
So when I did that, there's awhole sect of people that came
out and we put it on 3D.

(01:11:40):
We worked with Will Wu tounderstand if this thing is good
in motor skill learning or not.
We did all these things thatpreceded investing a shitload of
money into with the hope thatit would do well.
Right, we see when people use itproperly, who are a 15 handicap

(01:12:04):
.
We don't really need to measureit.
We can see that it's better.
I can see it on their face, Ican hear it at impact.
We can see that it's better.
I can see it on their face, Ican hear it at impact.
But how many players' right armon tour is this bent and their
right wrist in that positionJust not happening.
It's not happening, okay.

(01:12:24):
So why do Cameron Champ and WacoNeiman create different GRF
pattern than Scottie Scheffler?
I think a lot of it has to dowhere the weight of the club is
coming down Period.
Okay, if you're Scottie andthat thing's coming down in
front of you, you're probablygoing to have to slide forward a
long time as you're going intoextension phase to not cut

(01:12:45):
across it too much.
That's why, whenever he goes tohit the guaranteed start left
but he literally spins out likea tornado, ok, but when you
watch him hit balls on the range.
If he's kind of hitting a highdraw his feet don't move that.
So it's a it's a, it's areaction.
So if I go and I get on forceplates and I start to move my

(01:13:08):
forces more and do what I needto do, I'm not saying that those
things are not occurring.
I'm not saying that coupleforces don't create rotation.
I'm not saying any of that.
I'm just saying none of that'sgoing to make my arms.
And how many times have I beenat an event where I'm doing a
charity event and there's a guywho's been paralyzed, who's in
an adaptive golf cart, who'ssmashing drivers on the ring and

(01:13:31):
he's just in a seatbelt andhe's just going from here to
here.
So is it?
Would it be a better metric offorce plate if we were looking
at power lifting?
Maybe, olympic lifting probably, but the golf club's not that
heavy.
So I definitely need to be ableto create friction.
You know, there there is goingto be a relative force.

(01:13:54):
I need to be able to createfriction so I don't fall over.
But telling somebody who'scoming over the top with an open
face that they're not gettingtheir pressure forward, why
would they?
They're trying to get the handpath to go left as fast as they
can to slam the face shut.
So getting them to do that nowbrings them in with an open face

(01:14:15):
and they're blocked out.
So now it's even more of ablock flight.
So it's like this is all thingsthat I that I that I worked on.
The products themselves areamazing.
The measurement that they haveis of great value, but it's just
when I take people to the topon fourth place and I had, I had
them as early as anybody and Iwould change certain things up

(01:14:38):
here, I would see remarkablydifferent reactions.
So could I, could I know more tobenefit my tour players?
Like if I had Scott Lynn'sbrain and knew what Scott Lynn
knew about ground reactionforces?
I had Scott Lynn's brain andknew what Scott Lynn knew about
ground reaction forces, wouldthat help me benefit my players?
I think it could, for sure itwould.
But I look at the fact thatthey're stressed out about life

(01:15:05):
which is fine, potentially ontheir phone till 11 at night.
I've lost their purpose in whythey're doing what they're doing
.
I will just like as it relatesto it there's enough people in
the industry.
There's enough jobs.
Okay, we have enough elders inany tribe to help anyone grow.
If I feel like that is somethingthat needs to be a solution,

(01:15:26):
then I will go ahead and consultand pay those people to help me
with that.
I will go ahead and consult andpay those people to help me
with that, but when I just lookat it, I don't think that either
one.
For me 3D my guy's always beenMark Bull.
Mark Bull has forgot more about3D than I will ever know.
So why would I bother spendingall this time away from my
family and away from doing whatI know I can do and what I'm

(01:15:49):
good at to learn somethingthat's potentially three or four
percent more of what I need tounderstand?
So it's utilizing other peoplein those spaces to help me if
needed.
And Mark Ball and I have nevergot together where he has said
something that I didn't evenjust realize by watching someone
hit golf balls, and so whenMark says that's good, I like it

(01:16:13):
.
We're looking to see.
Mark can see injuries like ninemonths in advance, right, and
the guy's amazing.
I mean for anybody watchingthis who love it, I mean the
best money you can spend as itrelates to golf instruction
would be being on Mark's um, onmark's website, on bull 3d um.

(01:16:35):
He's not even speaking from aplace of certainty.
He's so open, he's evolvingconstantly, he's doing this,
this and that, but after all ofhis studies he said the most
important part about the golfswing is the trail arm.
You don't think the mostimportant part about throwing a
spear was the trail arm?
You don't think the mostimportant part about throwing a
spear was the trail arm?
You don't think the mostimportant part about
evolutionary movement for aright-handed person was probably

(01:16:56):
the right arm?
We punched with it, we grabbedwith it, we cooked with it.
So it makes complete sense.
So it's not like it's.
I think people get the wrongidea.
Like I'm shitting on groundreaction forces.
By no, by no means am I.
I'm just saying is that, as itrelates to me making a living at

(01:17:17):
golf, you know what I learnedabout using the hands and arms
properly and how to support thatwith the pivot is more
important than what I'm doing.
And the thing too is like mybest friends on tour are Kairos
and Osteos, so they don't evenhave one player whose foot works

(01:17:38):
properly.
Okay, like Justin, you have aseven and five-year-old daughter
.
Their feet probably still workpretty well, right, you know,
you sit there in these airportsall over the world and you watch
.
Little kids watch a one hourmovie and a deep Sherpa squat.
I don't know a 60 year old whocan do that.
I bet you, if you could do that, your golf swing is going to be
way, way better.
Right, so it's.

(01:18:01):
We are in the proper movementand we're taken out of the
movement by a sedentary society.
Right, when do human beingsfirst start to get back pain?
When we put them in chairs atschool for seven hours a day?
Right, that's the advent of theback pain.
So, to me, when I speak to themand they're like well, you know
, somebody's, like this guy hasto go more vertical.

(01:18:21):
And they're like this guy can'teven use his big toe.
So if you can't use your bigtoe, then you can't use your
glute.
So what is this vertical thing?
What am I measuring now?
Like, so it's so tricky becausethey've screwed my head up so
much with.
This person's tibia doesn'tmove properly.
So you're going to see that upthe chain and dah, dah, dah, dah
, dah.
The go-to is that.
I always know that if I canchange the position of the club

(01:18:42):
face and the movement of thegolf club, we can hit better
shots, right.
So for me, to this day, if Iwas only able to use one piece
of technology, it would you knowit would have to be something
that was discerning, ballplayand then, if you can use them
together, right.
The thing I love about being aninvestor in Sportsbox is that

(01:19:04):
we are making 3D less expensive.
Less expensive.
It has been tested againsteverything.
It is still giving youhigh-level information and I
think, through the app, thevisuals that people get of 3D is
so much more, because when Iused to sit with Chris Welsh and
all these guys as I was tryingto learn this stuff, when I saw

(01:19:27):
human movement as a graph, I wasso, like, couldn't see it, like
at all, could not see it.
So I think there's a lot ofpeople who need to be teaching
instructors and then there'speople who need to be teaching
players, and sometimes that'shigh level, sometimes that's mid
amateur, sometimes that'sbeginners.
I've lately I've had to give acouple lessons to a beginner.

(01:19:48):
I don't even know where tostart.
I'm like what do you do?
What, what, what, what, whatlike, what do you actually do?
Like, I'm sure if all I wasgoing to do was coach beginner
golfers for the next 10 years,how I would feel about how you
learn is completely different.
There wouldn't be much of afocus on result.

(01:20:08):
I don't even know if I wouldeven put a golf ball there right
.
Maybe I'd have them on a tenniscourt learning a forehand.
Maybe I'd be teaching them howto throw Frisbees this way.
Maybe I'd be teaching them howto stretch so they could
actually maybe maintain somelevel of side bend.
I don't.
I'm not sure because I thinkfor the most part you know what.

(01:20:28):
What does the beginner golferdo?
Probably the worst is theyprobably stand and grip the club
the worst.
So when I'm with a tour player,I probably need to pay
attention to how he's grippingthe club and how he's standing.
It's not going to be as obvious, but it's.
It's still going to beimportant, right?

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
Yep, yeah, because the hands are the only
appendages that you have incontact with the tool yeah, yeah
, no.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
So so you know I, I guess I have a decent
understanding of how it all kindof figures into each other, but
it's really difficult, you know, when you see somebody you know
sit there.
And two things that really blewme away was watching this guy
carry a driver 290 yardsparalyzed and sitting in a golf

(01:21:22):
cart.
Now, of course the golf cart iscreating friction with the
ground.
Of course he's harnessed intohis seatbelt.
I'm not saying that's nothelping, he's not just sitting,
he's not just floating in spaceswinging his arms.
I understand that.
Who doesn't know that?
Right?
But then I remember in 2003, Iwas the director of instruction
at Glen Abbey and RBC Bank hadhired Jason Zubak, canadian long

(01:21:48):
drive goat and one of the greatlong drivers of all time.
Right, and a brilliant,fantastic guy.
Like can't say enough about him.
And you know he's making thisswing and you can see all this
stuff happening.
And you know he looks like he'sin the Olympics as a power
lifter and he looks amazing,right.
And then he gets.

(01:22:09):
He tees up a ball like probablya foot and a half off the
ground.
Ball like probably a foot and ahalf off the ground.
Yeah, about foot and a half offthe ground, gets on his knee on
a physio ball you know, like aswedish ball, yeah and gets on a
physio ball, so his knees areon it, he's clamping it, so
there's still enough frictionthere with the ground and
basically goes from here to hereand carries it 350 yards.

(01:22:30):
You, you can't unsee that right.
So when somebody else is saying,if you don't do this, you can't
play, it's like no, I'vealready seen that's not true,
like you see what I'm saying.
So like no one.
Like if you take cyanide, mostlikely you will die okay, that's
a one-to-one ratio.
If you take cyanide, mostlikely you will die Okay, that's

(01:22:51):
a one-to-one ratio.
If you don't drink water, youwill be dehydrated.
Your cells won't communicate aswell.
We can say that those are basedin certainty, but I think,
because golf is such anamalgamation of so many
different sciences, to say thatanything is certain is just
really yes.
Do we need to create pressureto the ground to create friction
?
Yes, can we fire a cannon froma canoe?

(01:23:12):
No, but when I watch amateursplay golf, the top of their
backswing looks a hell of a lotdifferent than your normal pga
tour player period right andfrom the top of the backswing to
impact.
How much time do I have toreally input anything else into
it?
Not a lot, right?
Not a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
Yeah, I always tell my clients the setup and your
grip is one of the few instancesin the golf swing where you can
actually look like aprofessional, so make the most
of it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
Yeah, I mean, you know, start good, end good,
right it's.
You know, if you take LewisHamilton and he's in the top car
and he's the top driver andhe's using the wrong tires in
the rain, he's going to finish20th, if he finishes at all.
So you know, you can't.
You can't build skyscrapers ifyou don't have an incredibly

(01:24:09):
strong foundation.
You just can't buildskyscrapers if you don't have an
incredibly strong foundation.
You just can't see thefoundation.
All you're going to see is 150stories, but you won't see what
it's built on Right.
And the funny thing is I have aFrench bulldog that thinks that
she's like a German shepherdattack dog, and the thing is she

(01:24:32):
couldn't even potentially scareanybody.
Luna, luna Da Da.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
Hey Sean.
We're mindful of your time,jesse.
Do you have any closingquestions for Sean?

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
No, I think that everything that I was going to
ask sean already answered, um,but I I will say that one of the
things that I've taken awayfrom this conversation uh, from
sean is is an underlying spiritof acceptance, and I tell people

(01:25:13):
a lot of the golf course thatif you can accept where you are,
that's your foundation, um, andand sometimes that you, you've
got to get, you got to get beatdown a little bit.
The ego has to take a rep.
You, the ego, has to take a hitso that you're humbled enough
to see what is what?

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
why do you think they call it like for for guys to
become some of the most specialsoldiers in the world?
Why they call it hell we?
yeah like so, all of us want tobe special, but we're not
willing to go through hell.
It's like that.
That that's, that's the, thebiggest, that's the biggest
point.
And I mean the interestingthing about that is, I don't

(01:25:54):
know if I was told this or Iread it, but they did this test
and I have said before, like Ispeak to say the AJJ or things
like that, and one of the thingsI always talk to the kids about
is, like you all know where youwant to be right, like this is
what you dream of and that'sgreat.
Never lose that.

(01:26:17):
But but from when I said Iwanted to do what I'm doing
right now to this day for aliving, if we had a big white
wall right In an auditorium andyou had put on that wall every
single day I'd had between whenI said that and now, if I'd read
that before I'd started, Iwould never start it because I'd
have been like who's going todeal with all that shit like
that?
How are you going to handlethat?
Why would you put yourselfthrough that?
So it's a good thing that wedon't know what it takes when

(01:26:39):
we're getting to that point.
And so what they did, jesse, isthey.
They put the syllabus of HellWeek on everyone's bed and
whoever read it didn't evenstart, didn't even begin.
Everyone's bed, and whoeverread it didn't even start,
didn't even begin.
And so I mean that's heavy,right, like that's that.
That, that is super heavy.
So I will say to people becareful what you wish for.
But I mean, in order to becomeelite like whether it's

(01:27:03):
Singapore, whether it's Vietnam,whether it's Israel, whether
it's the Navy SEALs, whetherit's SAS to be elite, you
basically have to go throughsomething that no one else can
handle.
That's it.
I mean, that is it.
There's plenty of guys who canshoot unbelievable bench press

(01:27:23):
tons of weight, fight jujitsu,do all that, probably at a
higher level.
I bet you, if we were to be ableto vote in Vegas just based off
of looking at individuals, wewould often be wrong about who's
going to make it through.
Navy SEALs, yeah, right, butthe ones that I've met and you
wouldn't even know they're inthe room, I guess the picture in

(01:27:44):
my head, because the Hollywoodis, you know whatever, but of
course they're impressive likemovers.
If you know where to look,you're like oh, I get it now,
right, but I sat at a dinnertable one night with these two
incredibly like, very, veryintellectually smart guys.
They had a different look intheir eyes, though I couldn't
put my finger on it, but it hitme, I could feel it, and we

(01:28:06):
talked, and we talked and we hadlike a two hour dinner and then
I'd made a comment about how,in golf, we train in a way that
makes us feel more competentthan we are.
So when we go the course wethink it's mental, but it's,
it's just the.
The way we practice is creatinga false sense of competency,
that when we go to battle we seethat we're not skilled enough

(01:28:26):
and don't have the right weapons.
And he was like that's a greatpoint.
You, you know that'sinteresting.
And I said you know, if you lookat the Navy SEALs, like when
they went to Islamabad, you knowthat helicopter went down and
they still were able to do whatthey did.
And he said, sean, they wouldhave practiced both of them
going down like 500 times andwhat they would do until it

(01:28:49):
became automated in reaction.
So yeah, were they happy aboutit?
Probably not.
It made something moredifficult, but they knew how to
react from that moment and itprobably could have been like a
brief panic like who wants todie when a helicopter goes down
Nobody.
You can't really undo that as acentral theme in the brain.
And then I realized then I wastold by the guy who invited me

(01:29:11):
to dinner that they were both onSEAL team three, not six that
were there and they've been.
You know, they've been SEALsfor 10 years.
And this is like literally aguy like if he bumped into your
wife you might be like hey buddy, like show some respect, and
then it's over for you.
You, just you.
It was tricky right, like youcouldn't really tell.
But when you watch I watched onthe way home on the plane

(01:29:35):
probably for the 50th time lonesurvivor.
I mean you've just fallen what800 feet down rock walls.
You've got broken legs,concussions, you've been shot
five times and your guy's at thetop of the hill and you're
still saying to your other teampartners we need to get back up

(01:29:57):
that hill and save him.
I mean it's just a different,it's a whole different.
It's just a whole differentthing.
So I don't.
I'm sure that most of the guyswho become SEALs they're already
pre, there's been aprerequisite to doing that and I
think a lot of it would betheir ability to endure more

(01:30:17):
pain than most people.
So if I am the Admiral's sonwho is the wide receiver at Navy
runs, a 40 and 42, can do 60pull-ups.
Mad, brilliant, great, greatacademics I'm most likely able
to do it.
But when I'm sitting there forthe fifth hour sitting in the
water and I'm freezing cold andI'm literally going into

(01:30:42):
hypothermia, how am I not goingto just go and ring the bell?
It'd be easy to do, right?
No one who rings the bell issoft, right?
I mean, just to even make itthrough three days of that, you
have to be pretty amazing, right?
Pretty elite.
So I don't know if I can definewhat that difference is, but
I'm sure that those guys growingup would have had the right

(01:31:04):
amount of trauma in order to beable to understand that.
You know what.
At some point this is going tobe over and all these thoughts
in my head are just mentalconstructs of previous
experiences and doubts.
Ok, but I'm just going to hangin there because my purpose is
that I want to be a Navy SEAL.
Right?
How did?
How did?

(01:31:24):
How did?
How did people survive theHolocaust?
Man, how?
Just that overall image of oneseeing your wife and your kids
again.
It was amazing what peoplecould put themselves through
with that vision in their mind24-7.
I will see them again, I willsee.
So what I'm going through rightnow is just what it is.

(01:31:45):
But as soon as they lost thator found that the family had
been exterminated, they diedwithin like two minutes.
So that when you see whatpeople can, you know, survive
through because of like truepurpose and meaning, then we
should be constantly trying todefine what that purpose and
meaning is.

(01:32:05):
Because it's like love, right?
You don't need love for yourfamily when things are good.
You need love for your familywhen things are challenging and
when they're difficult.
Because with families it's sotricky sometimes that if you
didn't love them, what wouldmake you not just go all right,
I'm done, I can't take it.
So I think that when people arehaving a great attitude and a

(01:32:30):
great mindset, what does thatmean?
Like when I've had a shittymindset, I don't know how to
switch my mindset into a goodmindset.
Like when I'm being patient, Ihaven't told myself to be
patient, I'm just patient.
So when I'm impatient, tellingme to patient, be patient, it's
like I'm not trying to beimpatient.
Obviously I'm impatient becauseI don't understand something
deeper.
So if I do go to be patient,it's like I'm not trying to be

(01:32:50):
impatient.
Obviously I'm impatient becauseI don't understand something
deeper.
So if I do go to an airport,people would look at me and
think man, he's really patient.
No, I just understand that it'snormally a shit show and is
going to be probably a shit show.
So it's not anything I'm tryingto be.
I just have a deeperunderstanding of what I'm
actually in, which is why itlooks that way.

(01:33:12):
So, telling someone to have agood attitude when they go play
golf, can we literally say thata great attitude is a one-to-one
ratio with shooting under par?
I've just seen it not be thecase too many times, but I've
seen course management,someone's understanding of their
skill and their ability toreplicate a shot over and
overshoot under par a lot, youknow.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40):
All set, Sean.
It's been an experience doingthis interview with you.
Can you let our listeners knowwhere to find out more about you
and the ProSender?
Can you let our listeners knowwhere to?

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
find out more about you and the ProSender.
Well, I'm at Sean FoleyPerformance on Instagram.
I'm not allowed to be onTwitter.
My wife banned me from even.
I never even started on Twitter.
The craziest thing, justin, isI might be one of the only

(01:34:12):
people alive at my age group of50 who's never even went on
Twitter.
I don't know why I didn't dothat.
I love information.
There's probably so much greatstuff on there.
I guess I'm just an old schoolbook reader.
So Sean Foley Performance is onInstagram and Pro Sender is
ProSenderGolfcom Amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:34:31):
Thanks again, sean, for raising us with your
presence your presence.

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):
Yeah, yeah, I don't go that.
Justin has that way of it withhis voice and how he speaks it
is, it's not.
It's not my, it's not my.
Uh, I guess our presence issupposed to be our present to
everybody.
You know what I mean uh, it's,it's.

Speaker 3 (01:34:49):
You've really touched me deeply.
I know I've said this many,many times to you, but it really
is so, and I can't thank youenough that's the whole thing,
man.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
I I don't think you do it on purpose.
I think you learn what youlearn to make sure that you know
your time.
People say short time on thisplanet, but I don't know.
Life feels long, sometimes too.
Right um, life it only feelsshort when you're on vacation.
You're here, you're here, thankyou, gentlemen.
All right, thanks, thank you.

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