April 2, 2025 • 48 mins
Trevor Telin, mindset coach for elite athletes including those at IMG Academy, reveals practical strategies for golfers to overcome mental barriers and perform at their best under pressure. After experiencing his own mental roadblocks as a college basketball player, Trevor developed techniques that help athletes bridge the gap between technical ability and peak performance.
• Awareness of personal thresholds is the first step in managing pressure situations
• Mental skills require dedicated practice just like physical golf skills
• Personalized strategies work better than generic mental game approaches
• Resonance frequency breathing (4-second inhale, 6-second exhale) helps regulate nervous system
• Observational skills allow players to step back and avoid emotional reactions
• Mental resilience developed in golf translates to all areas of life
• Elite performers aren't surprised by adversity—they expect and prepare for it
• The goal isn't to eliminate challenges but to respond to them effectively
Follow Trevor on Instagram and YouTube @MindsetTrev or email him at trevortalene@gmail.com to learn more about his coaching services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode is brought to you by Mizuno Golf
and Jumbo Max Grips.
Are you curious?
Hello, this is Jesse Perrymanfrom the Flag Hunters Golf
Podcast, welcoming you toanother edition.
As we are approaching theseason, we are coming out of the
doldrums of wintertime, springis upon us, sun is shining a
(00:26):
little bit longer during the dayand the grass is going to start
getting greener.
For those of you that arehaving to deal with the seasons
and here in California theseasons are very mild, so eat
your heart out.
Anyway, happy pre-master's week.
It is almost upon us and thisweek we have my friend.
(00:47):
His name is Trevor Talene.
He is a mindset coach.
He has a great Instagramchannel called Mindset Trev at
Mindset Trev, and it's the samewith YouTube, at Mindset Trev on
YouTube, and he has somefantastic practical applicatory
(01:11):
methodologies for helping you toplay your best golf and getting
out of your head, moreimportantly, to see things as
they are and practical wisdomand, as I said, applications to
(01:33):
get around the ego, to befriendthe ego, to understand what the
ego wants and to help usnavigate that.
More importantly, trevor workswith elite athletes.
He has for quite some time, hasa background in psychology and
in mental toughness, has acollege athletic background
himself, so he knows what he'stalking about and he's coming
(01:55):
from experience and teachers whohave been there and done that
and they have done the requisitework in the field, both
experientially and educationally, to give us you and I the best
possible chance to play our bestgolf.
Check them out again at mindsetTrev on Instagram and at
(02:20):
mindset Trev on YouTube.
And happy great rest of the week, everyone.
And for the next couple ofweeks I'm going to be releasing
a few more in celebration of theMasters.
I'm going to be releasing somepodcasts, a little bit more than
one per week to get somefantastic conversations out
there and to celebrate our firstmajor of the year, and also to
(02:44):
co-celebrate the Women's Amateurat Augusta as well A powerful
tournament for the ladies,showcasing the world's greatest
amateurs, and having that Sundayat the National is quite
special.
So cheers everyone and have afantastic week.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the Flight Hunters
(03:18):
Golf Podcast.
I am your host, jesse Perryman,and we're giving Justin the
week off.
He's in Singapore, he'steaching, making people better,
and then this week we've got amindset coach.
This is pretty cool.
His name is Trevor Talene and Ifound him on Instagram and it
really is my wish desire toexamine the it Trevor.
(03:46):
Thanks for coming on, bud.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Absolutely, Jesse.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm excited to dive into ittoday and see what we come up
with.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Trevor, you're a mindset coach and you're a
mindset coach for you.
Do some work with IMG, which ispretty high cotton.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yes, indeed, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
How did you get involved, how'd you get started
and what inspired?
You?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That's a wonderful question.
So what really got me startedon this track was my own
roadblocks, my own shortcomings,if you will.
Basketball was my sport growingup as a young lad, all the way
through high school and theninto college and such, and in
college I took probably one ofthe more interesting routes you
could.
(04:29):
I actually, first year ofcollege I decided I didn't want
to play.
I thought I was over it.
It took about three months,realized that was probably one
of the biggest mistakes I hadmade and it was time to get back
into it.
So I took a bit of a risk and Iactually went up to a school in
Iowa, literally in the middle ofa cornfield, a junior college
there, spent two years up therein a town called Mason City,
(04:51):
loved it, said all right, I wantto keep going for this.
So then transferred to a schooldown in Arizona, right outside
the Phoenix area, down in Mesaspecifically.
And that's when things, though,I thought were really charging
ahead.
They actually got a little morebumpy, and about halfway
through that first year there,or so, I decided it was time to
(05:12):
really hang it up and quit.
And when I did that a few weeksafterwards, through some just
self-reflection and kind of justsitting with all those emotions
and thoughts that were flushingthrough, I came to the
conclusion that my goodness, mymind is really what got in my
way here.
This is really probably thebiggest piece holding me back
from playing at that potential Iknow is there, I know is
(05:33):
possible.
So with this realization Idecided was already on the track
to go to graduate school forpsychology in general, just
didn't know which way I wantedto specialize that and I
consider myself incredibly luckyfor this opportunity.
But I actually started reachingout to a few professionals in
the sports psychology world thatwere in that area and was
(05:54):
incredibly blessed to get thechance to intern with Trevor
Moad at his office over inScottsdale.
They're a small team, justTrevor, a gentleman named Sean
Kelly Quinn, and they had avideographer there, jonathan
Schultz, and they kind of tookme under their wing.
I saw everything that they weredoing and learned from who I
consider to be one of theabsolute best in our field while
(06:14):
he was working for some reallylarge programs.
But just got the bug and fromthere it was off to graduate
school and now we're here.
The rest is kind of in historyand now we're here, the rest is
kind of in history.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So If I'm a player and I need help with my mindset
and I reach out to you, I say,Trevor, I've, I've got some.
You know I'm getting in my ownway.
How would you start thatprocess?
What would that process look inthe beginning?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
That's a great question for myself.
Where I like to start is I gotto understand who you are.
I got to understand what we'redealing with here.
What has it maybe looked likein the past and maybe where are
you hoping to take things in thefuture and just what's getting
in the way of that, what'smaking that more difficult?
So we start with a quick, easy30-minute chat.
I'm going to have somequestions.
(06:59):
I just want to hear folks' storytheir background and from that
initial conversation we'rehoping we can find at least one
piece, one little lever that wecan start to work with a little
bit and from that changehopefully start to see some
different sort of results,performance, et cetera, whatever
you want to call it actuallyout on the course.
And from that point it's afluid and ever-adapting and
(07:21):
evolving process.
Human beings are constantlychanging from day to day, so
therefore what we're dealingwith, how we relate to it, what
comes up for us, is changing aswell.
So then it's really acollaborative partnership.
I mean, whether that's we talkonce a month or twice a month or
four times a month, no, justchecking in what's been going on
, giving ideas, giving tactics,getting feedback and just kind
(07:41):
of working that process throughuntil folks feel like they're at
a at a good spot.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That sounds great.
My, uh, the the majority of thelisteners that listen to this
program, trevor, are pretty goodplayers.
Um, and once you get to acertain proficiency with your
golf swing, it no longer is yourgolf swing and it becomes
(08:09):
something else.
In addition to that, not thattechnique is not important, it
very, very much is.
But you need to learn how todrive the vehicle after you've
built it.
And some people run up againstsome of the mental blocks
getting in their own way.
Maybe they're trying to, youknow, chase out, chase their
(08:31):
fear or outrun their fear on adriving range trying to figure
it out.
But you know, you and I bothknow, and a lot of people know
this, that once you get to acertain level, it's not your
golf swing, it does become.
What's going on under the hood?
Yeah, can you describe that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
absolutely well.
I'd say this is true in golfand I'd say this is true in
probably a variety of sports, ifnot all of them.
I mean, we see this especiallyas we get to the upper levels of
things at a certain point, andeven at the highest level, like
you, can't do much moretechnique wise, right it is.
It is almost maxed out in asense, and what then starts to
(09:11):
create that edge in thatsituation is exactly what you're
mentioning.
It is the mind.
It is how we relate to theadversity, the friction, the,
you know, the, the situationsthat go wrong.
I mean, how we work with all ofthat is realistically, and of
course I'm biased in this nature, but I think one of the biggest
aspects of it, as you mentioned, your technique is always
important and sure that mightrefine over year, over year, and
that's totally cool.
(09:31):
And oftentimes, I mean,everything runs through the mind
first at least this is myopinion, right?
I mean we look at the world,how we react to it, what comes
up for us is all processingthrough the mind.
So if we're not working withthat space, well then we're kind
of doing ourselves a disservice.
I personally think.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, I agree, and I do believe that this is the
missing link.
You know, with the advent oftrack band and force plates and
everything that you can look atunder the sun to see what your
body is doing in space with agolf club, I think we've got.
We've got that pretty dialed.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You don't have the mind dialed no, no, and I'd say
do we ever fully get it dialed?
Perhaps not, but we have to atleast be in the and I don't know
, fight is even quite the rightword, but we at least got to be
engaged with it right, buildingthat awareness so that we know
all right what little uh pivotschanges, adaptations do I need
(10:30):
to make along the way?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Sure, here I got it.
I got a question for you,Trevor, this is a good one.
Um, this has come from a few ofmy friends.
My my friends said you know, ifyou ever get any mindset people
on your podcast, you know, askhim this.
So I'm going to ask you this.
There's been a lot of talkabout, you know, how do you get
(10:59):
over breaking 80, breaking 90and that stuff.
But in the case of thequestions that I get is, how do
you get your nervous system usedto being under par,
significantly under par, even?
You know, what I found with afew of the questions that I've
asked is a threshold of whereone would be comfortable.
I've mentioned this severaltimes.
For me, it's a certain amountunder par and then, once I get
beyond that, the speed wobblesstart happening right.
(11:21):
Sure, start happening right.
So my question to you is how doyou, how do you, get used to
being significantly under parand not let it stop you from
doing the things that you did toget to that?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
place?
That's a great question.
My mind goes to, I guess, kindof three elements here to begin.
The first one, and perhaps themost important, at least in my
mind initially here, isawareness.
So I mean, it clearly soundslike you have a good grasp on
where this threshold exists.
I'm not sure if every playerhas that.
(11:59):
If they don't, let's startthere, let's start to understand
.
When do things start to feel alittle wonky, a little shaky?
For me here, a great way ofdoing that is, I will perhaps
not the world's greatest kind ofanalogy for it, but I'll kind
of use the image of a stoplightand we can kind of look at those
three colors green, yellow andred and we can associate these
(12:22):
with these different states.
So what does green feel like?
Well, that's when we're in ourgroove, we're in the zone, we're
just rocking and rolling, we'redoing our thing.
That's perfect, wonderful,that's helpful to know.
But perhaps, maybe even theleast important one to really
have a grasp on, what's reallyimportant in my book is that
yellow, because that's going tobe the signs, the signals, the
cues of when we're starting toapproach that threshold.
(12:44):
And in my mind, if we can pickthat threshold up earlier or
quicker or sooner.
Well then it's far easier tokind, of course, correct and get
ourselves back down to thatgreen Comparatively, if we blow
right past that yellow and allof a sudden it's a hole later
and it's oh crap, I didn'trealize like I'm really feeling
it right now and we're in thatfull-blown red state.
It's far more difficult tobring ourselves back to that
(13:07):
grounded place, especially if wehaven't trained any sort of
tools, techniques, strategies,whatever it is you want to call
it that'll help us do so.
So for one, I think it'sawareness, and that's not just
awareness of the thoughts,that's awareness of the body.
For myself, it's always mypalms.
When my palms start to getsweaty, I know, all right, this
might be a moment to kind ofjust recenter or reground myself
(13:28):
here If my chest starts to geta bit tight.
Okay, I know, maybe I'm alittle more elevated than even
just the palms.
So picking up these signals, Ithink, are huge.
It's different for everybody.
I'd say that's kind of step oneand two.
The third piece, though, I wouldadd, is like let's get outside.
We're talking golf herespecifically.
Let's get outside of golf andlet's go put ourselves in other
(13:50):
situations in life that maybeincrease a little pressure for
ourselves and we can buildconfidence, handling those
moments of adversity, even ifit's in a completely different
aspect of life.
And what we oftentimes find isthat will help translate over to
the golf course, because it'snervous system is the nervous
system.
It doesn't know if we'replaying golf or if we're like
you know, we just got cut off intraffic.
(14:10):
There really is not a massivedifference there, it just reacts
.
So if we can find our way inother moments of life to ground
recenter, you know, manage thosemoments.
I think that also plays quitenicely and gives folks a little
bit of an edge benefit whenthey're back out on the course
itself.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I think that's very, very well said, trevor.
I really like that.
I like the awareness partbecause I think that, by and
large, especially in the UnitedStates, where we've over-trained
the physical so much that whenwe do bump up against some
adversity, we don't necessarilyhave the mental tools to
(14:51):
reground ourself, to connectwith whatever it is that we need
to connect with to get us backin the here and now, absolutely,
would agree.
It's, like you know, just mycomfort zone, which I'm going to
do whatever I can to breakthrough.
It is four under.
As soon as I get to four under,I start getting a little shaky.
Sure, I can cruise all the waythere, but once I get to four,
(15:16):
for whatever reason, so you know, I'm just as much of an
inquisitor in this case asanybody.
Sure, sure, you know what aresome of the things that you can
suggest.
Say that somebody is bumping upagainst that, or they're
playing in a golf tournament andthey might find themselves in
the lead.
Mm-hmm, you know, there'sanother kind of a happy accident
(15:39):
problem.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Sir Sure, of course.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, is it a case of being there, uh, getting
yourself in position to get thenervous system acquiesced to
that level of, you know, quoteunquote pressure?
I think that all pressure isinternal anyway, but is that
part of it?
Um, is part of it, maybe,connecting to the breath?
You know what, what, what can,what are?
(16:05):
Give us us some clues of whatwe can do when we do get
ourselves in that situation?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Absolutely.
There's two things that come tomind here, and I'll mention the
first.
First and then the second isprobably just as, if not more,
important.
The first piece is and this isobviously not a wonderful answer
, but it really depends is andthis is obviously not a
wonderful answer, but it reallydepends no cool strategy
(16:30):
technique that I ever suggestwith an athlete is a
one-size-fits-all.
Humans aren't one-size-fits-all, so we always got to be willing
and open to customize these alittle bit.
So I'm hesitant to ever givelike try this and this will do
it.
However, you can take generalprinciples so breathwork
absolutely.
Now, there's a milliondifferent ways to do it.
However, you can take generalprinciples so breath work
Absolutely Now.
There's a million differentways to do that and knowing what
works best for you, what feelsmost comfortable, well, great,
(16:52):
once we fine tune that, that'sexcellent.
For an example, one techniquethat I will share with a lot of
folks is one referred to asresonance frequency breathing.
There's a good amount ofresearch done on this technique
and it's directly related toheart rate variability, and what
we see is, when we dive intothis resonance frequency
breathing, which is typicallyabout a four second inhale, six
(17:14):
second exhale, we know thatstarts to create a better
synchronization betweenbreathing rhythm, heart rhythm,
starts to create a little moreflexibility in the nervous
system.
So therefore it's one that Iwould highly recommend to folks.
But in other cases it can bekeywords, it can be physical
actions, if you want.
I actually have and I don'thave it here with me, but I
(17:35):
actually have a plastic tinytoilet.
It's about this big, and I'lluse that sometimes with folks as
a reminder to just flush it.
When situations come up and wefeel like we can't grasp them,
let's just get rid of it thatway.
Worked with a young golfer theother day and we were talking
about similar ideas.
Wind pressure starts to reallybuild up.
How do we let it go?
(17:55):
For some reason, throughout ourdiscussion the idea of a
balloon came up.
So we said, all right, well,why not bring a little balloon
with us, like put it in our bagor put it in our pocket,
whatever it may be?
He loved the color orange, sowe made an orange balloon, so
it's personalized and it'sspecial to them, no-transcript.
So with all of that said, thebiggest piece I probably harp on
(18:18):
with the folks I work with isnone of this works if we don't
practice it, and ideally wedon't want to practice this when
we're in the heat of the moment.
Right, professional athletesdon't practice when the stands
are packed and the lights arebright.
They do it when no one's around.
And so for any of these toolswe got to do it the same way.
We got to build it in acomfortable environment where
(18:40):
our nervous system is morerelaxed, so we can really build
that familiarity.
And then, as we stack thosedays together and we get out in
competition, well now, when wego and lean on it, the recall is
quicker, the body knows what todo, the brain knows how to
respond and we can actually getthe desired effect.
So tool is great, but if wedon't practice it, the tool,
(19:00):
quite frankly, is kind ofuseless oftentimes.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, that's, that is absolutely well said, trevor.
I appreciate that getting yournervous system prepared is
literally a regular practice,and 100 percent it's just the
same as going out and hittingballs or tripping and putting
and working on the tangibles.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Absolutely and it's, you know, our, our, our, our
body and mind's way ofresponding to situations didn't
come this way in a day.
So therefore we are not goingto get it to be different in a
day.
I mean it takes the reps, ittakes building that strength.
It to be different in a day.
I mean it takes the reps, ittakes building that strength.
And this is a good place wherewe can use data.
In a previous role we workedvery closely with different
(19:44):
wearable technology and this wasa really nice way of saying,
hey, look, you go do thispractice and then look, we can
check back in and see that heartrate variability is increasing
or that resting heart rate isgetting a lot lower.
So we can use data in a helpfulway.
But it really takes two totango here to get it across the
line that we want to.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, that's very well said and I think that you
know I love this quote from TomWatson.
I've said it several times.
But he said I didn't learn howto win until I learned how to
breathe.
So somebody asked me the otherday about breath work and I said
well, you have to practice it.
You have to practice it.
(20:26):
You can't just magically callupon it when you're going
sideways in the middle of a golftournament.
Right, right, actually, have towork on it.
It has to become a part of your.
You know the pie chart?
Absolutely, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And what I find oftentimes is when folks don't
practice it, what will happen is, if they even remember to use
it in the midst of, let's say, agolf tournament, which usually
we don't if we're not that closeto it, if we don't practice it
well, then it doesn't work realgreat.
And then all of a sudden we'resitting at the end of that day
or that tournament or that round.
We're like, well, screw that,I'm never doing that again.
It didn't even work Well, wejust didn't even give ourselves
(21:02):
the chance for it to work in thefirst place.
And therefore you can seepeople you know get kind of just
, I guess, let down or just kindof lose hope that these tools
actually work, when in realityyou just got to put the right
inputs in to get the rightoutputs just got to put the
right inputs in.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
To get the right outputs, yeah, yeah.
And since you know what we'retalking about isn't a one size
fits all for everyone, andrightfully so how do you?
You know, give us, give, giveme some examples of what you
would do to find what does workfor us.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Great question.
The first thing that we'regoing to pull on that I
typically pull on is pastexperiences.
We know from research done byAlfred Bandura, even late 70s
and such, that our self-efficacy, our belief in a certain skill
is very impacted by how the pasthas played out, has played out.
(21:59):
So we're going to go back.
What were some high pressuremoments or intense situations
that you felt you navigatedthrough nicely?
What happened?
How did it feel?
What'd you do?
We're just going to kind ofcrowdsource all this different
information and try to build outsome sort of mosaic, if you
will, of all these differentinsights From that.
Then we'll start to simplify andsay, okay, well, what do you
maybe want to try out?
This is a really importantpiece too when it comes to these
(22:24):
techniques.
I will frame it like it's likeyou're going to go buy a new
jacket.
Well, when you go buy that newjacket, you don't just like grab
, maybe some people do, but youdon't typically just grab it off
the shelf and say, boom, I'mwalking out the store.
You want to go try it on.
You want to see if it fits yourarm length.
You want to see if it fits yourshoulders.
Does it zip up?
Is it too snug, is it not?
These techniques are the sameway.
So we'll crowdsource that pastto figure out, maybe, what has
worked.
Great, we come up with an ideaand then we're not married to it
(22:46):
.
We're just going to go test itout, right Almost like an
iterative process here, kind ofan agile way of thinking.
We're going to go use it, we'regoing to change it, manipulate
it, mold it, whatever you wantto say, until we get something
that really feels nice and great.
Then we'll stick with that fora while.
So that's kind of how we'd workthrough that process.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Do you ever bump up against anybody that doesn't
have the ability to be objectivein the feedback, if they're
attaching, you know, maybe amissed opportunity or choking
down the stretch to somethingcompletely negative and it
clouds their, their, their knownobservational capability.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I would say, yes, it is.
It probably comes up initially.
What I find with a lot of Imean, all my work is it's just
conversations like this.
It's, you know, 40, 60 minutesand we're just talking questions
, thoughts, throwing out ideas.
So initially, yes, you mightget that kind of right off the
bat, but then usually that'swhat I train myself to be good
at I kind of poke some holes init, challenge it a little bit,
(23:48):
try to extract out what might betrue and what might just be
kind of misinformation meshed in.
So I think that is really theimportance of having a sounding
board, a mirror, a mirror, acoach, whatever it is you want
to call it, because when we'redoing that on our own,
(24:09):
absolutely I'd say that's evenmore dangerous and more likely
that we will get kind of someconflicting ideas there.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, great answer.
Great answer, you know, this is, this is as much for me as it
is for for anybody out there.
I mean, you know we're as muchfor me as it is for anybody out
there.
I mean, you know, we're veryhuman and we do want to play
well, and especially in acompetitive environment.
But I'll tell you, you know,what we haven't trained my
(24:33):
goodness does it show up andwhat we have trained my goodness
does it show up.
How trained, my goodness doesit show up and to take a step
back and remove the positive ornegative or black and white
charge of the situation and togo into observation mode.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, yeah, I was actually just sharing this with
some athletes the other day Iwork with.
There's a great, though not agolfer.
There's a great, kobe Bryant.
Little kind of excerpt from aninterview he did once before and
he kind of talks about thisthat you know, performance is
not really that black and whiteand if we're making it just that
, it's going to be a bumpy andkind of long and probably not as
enjoyable road and instead wewant to tap into this mentality
(25:13):
of we're a problem solver, we'rean observer, we're a watcher,
we're just trying to figure itout.
We're trying to, of course youhear this all the time just get
a percent or two better each day.
But if we can embrace that sortof way of looking at things,
it's not about being perfect,it's not about the win or the
loss, it's about just evolvingas a human being, but then as a
competitor as well, and in allthese different identities that
(25:33):
are within ourselves, 100 agreeyeah, yeah, that's well said and
it's you know, look at thingsas they are and not with a with
(26:02):
a certain expectation and orattachment.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And this is kind of you know, I feel that here in
the U?
S we're starting to shift,we're starting to agree, you
know, agreed, agreed, and Ithink that these conversations
are at the forefront of thatshift.
Yeah, because it's you and Igrew up in kind of a different
era where you know, it's it'shustle culture, it's performance
(26:30):
, and if you and if you, youknow, if you don't do well, you
suck, or you know, there isn't alot of problem solving,
observational skills, problemsolving, until now, thankfully.
So you know, changing theparadigm is a big, a big thing
that I'm inspired by, or atleast, at least helping it.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Absolutely we seem to have this and perhaps
historically we have, and Iagree this 100% is starting to
shift in a lot of ways.
In the West we have this kindof mentality where, well, I just
got to work harder, I just gotto force more, I just got to
grip it tighter and it's like,well, realistically, in a lot of
cases things would be muchbetter if we just let go for a
second, if we just took a stepback and did nothing.
(27:16):
What do you know, things mightactually settle out.
The clarity reappears when westop trying or efforting quite
so hard.
I will, in different terms ordifferent ways, talk a lot about
with athletes this idea ofeffort versus ease, where we
don't always need to be pushingand trying and training more.
Sometimes it is better just tosit back, observe, be the
(27:37):
watcher, not speak, and justkind of take in and then through
that, well, we understand andwe learn how to relate to it all
a little bit better, which isawareness and insight and wisdom
, all kind of working togetherat that point.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
How can we pivot there, trevor?
How can we awaken thisobservational skill, trevor?
How can we awaken thisobservational skill, you know?
How can we detach from thepositive and negative, or at
least the charge that weassociate that with?
How can we take a step back andlook at the whole picture as it
(28:14):
is and then take the parts thatwe need to work on and have the
wisdom to be able to pull backand let go and observe.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So yeah, sir, great question.
There's surely there's aplethora of ways, right Again,
with different practices andways about going through things
to that really come to mind offthe bat is one idea, obviously
not brand new by any concept,especially in areas such as the
East and such but mindfulness,right, I mean just the practice
(28:46):
of observing, without attaching,without judging, without
critiquing, I mean justimmensely beneficial.
What I find, unfortunately,when it comes to ideas like this
mindfulness, meditation andobviously there's a plethora of
different ways we can meditateWe've done a really, really poor
job of displaying the variety,so I actually even did this one
(29:07):
day.
If you Google search likemeditate or mindfulness, you get
one photo and it's the personsitting cross-legged with their
hands, like this, and that'sgoing to work for maybe 10% of
people, but the other 90%, ourbrains don't function that way,
so we need to do it in othermanners.
So we'll work with folks on,you know, movement based
meditation or mindfulness.
Right, let's go I'm here inMexico Currently let's go walk
(29:29):
down the beach and let's justnotice what the sand feels like,
and when our mind drifts off toother places, we just bring it
back to the same.
Sit there and you listen tomusic, listen to a song or
something along these lines, andwhen the mind starts drifting
off to oh shoot, did I like turnoff the toaster, or whatever
random thought it is, we comeback to that piece.
So that would be, I think, apractice that people can embody.
(29:51):
For a more specific strategythat allows us to kind of zoom
out, I will talk a lot withfolks about taking the 30,000
foot approach, meaning I'lloftentimes try to ask what's the
biggest city you've ever beenin.
Let's take New York, forexample.
If you're in New York City andyou look around and you're
standing on a certain street orintersection, all you see is
(30:12):
these massive buildings.
You can't see out, you can'tsee the sky, you can't see
anything.
That can feel incrediblyoverwhelming, much like our golf
game can at points when thisfeels like all that there is.
But what then I'll challengefolks to do is say well, what
happens when you're in anairplane and you're flying above
New York City at 20,000, 30,000feet?
Well, now, all of a sudden, youcan see the much larger picture
(30:33):
, you can see how things fit inand you can see how those
buildings were actually justpart of this neighborhood or
whatever it may be.
I think that's a very usefulskill for life, but certainly
golf as well.
It might feel like everythingis closing in around us, but
let's actually zoom out, let'stake a look at what's really
been happening here.
Maybe let's look at the past,let's look at all the variables
(30:55):
and aspects involved, and thisoftentimes will help us kind of
widen that lens a little bit,get a better perspective and
then understand okay, maybe Iwas making too big of a deal out
of this or maybe I'm not makinga big deal out of this.
Gives us better direction,better clarity, and from there
we can proceed onward.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, yeah, it requires a little bit of the ego
to take a backseat.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Certainly.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Certainly.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and, and, and, and
though I think that can be I'lluse the word scary at times,
because we are live in a worldwhere, like ego is, you know,
that's who we are, it's who I am.
What do you mean?
When we're able to sit withthat feeling for a bit and
explore that space a bit more,actually life gets incredibly
(31:41):
better.
You know, it's easier to workthrough frustrating situations,
things that maybe really gotunder our skin beforehand.
They don't quite do it the sameas they once did.
It just allows so much morefreedom, autonomy and just kind
of just more alignment, I wouldsay, with folks, actual values
and what they care about andwhat they actually go do in life
.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, yeah, well said , well said, trevor.
I mean it bears repeating toothat, as, as we've discussed
this, I still keep going back towe we've analyzed the golf
swing.
We we've we've created tylosperformance institute has
(32:22):
created a great program to helpgolfers get better, get more
mobile, uh, create more powerand and uh to to look at it
legitimately as a sport.
And it is um.
But the observations of thegreats, um, and you could just
take golf for an example, or anysport.
(32:43):
They like Tiger Woods, tigerWoods and Jack Nicklaus, bobby
Jones, ben Hogan they had tohave been the greatest at not
allowing distractions to entertheir consciousness, or if it
did, there's literally noenergetic charge to it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
False flat.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, you know, kobe, you know just these great
people that they don't letthings happen, penetrate,
whatever it is that theirmission is.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And I think a big key there is the last piece.
You said what their mission isand I feel like oftentimes we
work from a space of Ooh, justdon't let the distraction, don't
let the distractions in, don'tlet them in, but we don't ever
give ourselves something to thenfocus on instead.
So incredibly helpful to say,all right, well, what really is
my purpose with today?
What really is the goal, theintention?
(33:46):
Like, let's find something.
Sure, we don't want to getsucked into all these things,
but what do we actually want toget focused on?
And when we have that, itbecomes far easier again, almost
like this mindfulness muscle,to say, oh, there's that
distracting thought, no worries,let me come back to what
actually matters.
Without that, you know, you'rekind of, you're kind of in the
dark.
They're just kind of floatingaround like yeah, keep this all
(34:07):
the way, but I don't know whatto actually pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, and that goes back to practicing something
before we actually get into in asituation where these thoughts
will arise Certainly.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Certainly you got to get comfortable first will arise
, certainly, certainly.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, you gotta get comfortable first.
Yeah, uh, cam smith saidsomething after he won the
british open in 22 at st andrews.
He said you know, a reporterasked him a question and I've
said this several times, but itbears repeating because I think
it's so incredibly powerful, andthat is somebody asked him what
the difference was this weekand he had a couple of of
moments during 72 holes thatwent a little sideways and he
said you know what?
(34:48):
What works for me is I'm verygood at being comfortable while
being uncomfortable, and I thinkthat that there, for the
majority of us myself includedwe don't want to be
uncomfortable.
Yeah, certainly, you know, andif you get yourself out in
(35:09):
position more than once or twice, you're going to feel those
feelings, you're going to haveanxiety, things are going to
come up, the brain's going towant to be into prediction mode.
You're going to start timetraveling.
Sure, well, if I do this and dothis, do this, I can shoot 66,
or if only if I didn't miss thatthree foot or two holes ago,
(35:31):
I'd be.
You know, whatever, whateverthe threshold is, you're trying
to ascend through, uh, or justgetting yourself in these
positions where your nervoussystem starts to go.
Okay, danger, will Robinson.
So all of these thoughts areincredibly huge, like an anchor
thought, like something toanchor you, keep you grounded.
(35:54):
And then the here and now.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Right, exactly, I could not agree more.
And that can change from day today, right, I mean, depending
on what the objective is or whatthe adversity or situations
you're dealing with.
That, honestly, probably shouldchange majority of days because
it's got to be relevant to asyou mentioned here and now and
the more familiar we are withthat.
Again, yes, takes practice.
We got to build the strength tostay connected with it, but it
(36:23):
gives us almost a bit of freedomsay, well, I don't really need
to be concerned with thatbecause this is actually what
matters.
Now.
There's a analogy.
We'll say, uh, in sports, psych, space, a lot of when, what's
important now and like, let'sjust keep coming back to that.
It can be a simple way of kindof honestly, probably the
biggest piece, keeping it simpleand just saying this is all I
care about, this is what's goingto kind of drive me through
today and just staying close tothat.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Well said.
One of the all-time greats hadhe had such a simple thing,
walter Hagen.
He said that he didn't allowhimself to get upset during the
course of a round until he's hitseven bad shots.
How about that?
It's like one of the greatestplayers of all time.
So for him to hit seven badshots, it's got to be a really,
(37:08):
really bad day.
Like a really bad day.
It'd be like Tiger or Jack orBen Hogan saying I'm not going
to get pissed off until I hitseven bad shots.
I think that's kind of boy.
You want to talk about freedom.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, there's a lot of room in that.
Yeah, absolutely, there's spacein that, right.
And and we're not.
I've seen this with athletes, Imean, countless times when we
feel as if our back is upagainst the wall, we have
nowhere to go, there's no roomto breathe.
Well, then we start acting outof fear.
Right where we start actingfrom a scarcity type mentality,
I mean, the nervous system,quite literally, is pinged over
to the more sympathetic side,where we can't perform our best
(37:45):
at that point.
So, whichever way we need toframe it, so that we feel as if
I got a little space and alittle room to move here
Fantastic, let's do it, let'slean into that, because it's
probably going to pay off andit's going to allow us to handle
that first punch and thatsecond punch with a little more
grace, which is probably goingto then boost confidence, keep
us more motivated and give usmore momentum as we continue to
(38:07):
play the round or the tournament, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, what a powerful conversation.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, I have to agree .
Speaker 1 (38:15):
This is pretty good stuff, you know, I Trevor.
I hope that in the years tocome, and starting now with this
paradigm shift, that this isactually being taught in
elementary schools.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Oh, I surely hope so too.
Interesting enough, I actually,about a year or so ago, did
some work for a micro schoolactually, as you mentioned,
elementary school down out ofAustin, texas, and then they're
based in Miami and Denver aswell of Austin Texas and then
they're based in Miami andDenver as well and my whole role
was building out curriculum forgrit and grit and growth,
mindset, creating challenges andand and and exercises and and
(38:49):
um workshops, et cetera, thatwere quite literally focused on
these exact topics.
And I think if we can get thoseseeds planted, then I mean we,
we do, we do potentially do somuch good for folks, not only in
that time, because if a youngman or a woman or a young boy or
girl can handle those growingsituations with this sort of
(39:11):
ideology or wisdom, then mygoodness, by the time they're a
bit older and then, as lifecontinues on, they're going to
be in a completely differentplace, and it really is
important.
So I'm right there with you.
I think it should beinterjected into just about
everything.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, yeah, one thing that I found too from the
greats they know how to take thegood with the bad.
It's a part of the process,it's a part of the journey.
You know it's there.
They appreciate the good andthey also appreciate the bad,
from learning perspective.
And, uh, and, and neither areeither, uh, the what, what's the
(39:51):
word I'm looking for?
Uh, the bad isn't demonized andthe good isn't, uh, idolized,
right, right, you know they are.
We have our preferences, ofcourse, but there's a certain
you've got to train the nervoussystem and you have to have a
(40:12):
mindset to be able to acceptthat, you know.
But if you talk about, I meanultimately, what would it be
like if somebody is on the golfcourse under duress, you know,
and their nervous system isstarting to freak out a little
bit, but they have the tools andthe resources internally to be
able to reground themselves andreek and to recreate that room,
(40:33):
that space, that freedom.
You know, I, I think that tigeris such a great example of this
because he had, he never lostsight of the freedom to be
himself out there, no matterwhat, no matter what was
happening.
Yeah, you know, and, and that'slike you have to, it's like one
(40:56):
of the intentions.
If you, if, if, if someone issetting an intention for around
you, this is your groundingpoint.
Point, no matter what happens.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think massively important, right?
This is the space I want tooperate from today and I'm going
to stay in this box in a sense.
And it does not mean and Ithink people get this confused
sometimes when it comes to themental performance training or
mindset work is that thisdoesn't mean bad things aren't
going to happen.
This doesn't mean you're notgoing to get hit with all sorts
(41:26):
of adversity, like that is stillgoing to show up and will show
up every single round and everysingle day of your life perhaps.
But what it does change is, asyou're mentioning, the space.
We have to work with it, andwhat we really start to see is
the more times you do that well,do that well.
This is, I mean, you can haveconfidence in your ability to do
this, just like anything else.
So you take tiger in from avery young age I would imagine
(41:48):
he got fairly decent at this.
Well, then you start to havethat belief that, well, I, if I
could do this, then why can't Ido this?
Now?
Right, and and now it's almostlike that threshold you're
mentioning.
Well, now it continues to grow,because what used to set us off
right here, well, over time,that doesn't really mean that
much or matter that much anymore.
And now it's all the way uphere that we got to get to,
until anything actually causesuh, you know some some wrinkles
(42:11):
in the plan.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So yeah, 100 agreed yeah, yeah, I think, uh, the
expectation should be that atsome point you are going to face
adversity, like that's beingvery realistic, absolutely, and
and and I find it sad actuallythat there's a lot of guys, like
(42:34):
in my handicap genre, that dogo out and they play a high
level of amateur golf but theystill surprised if they hit it
like shit.
It's just wild to me, it's liketheir egos won't let them.
And then I'm thinking to myself.
You know, I'm going to continueto go back to Tiger.
I know that he had days wherehe only hit like six, seven,
(42:55):
maybe eight greens in regulationand he still found a way to
stay in it.
You know, he still found a way,and that's that's mindset 100%
agreed.
100% agreed you know, probablythe greatest winner of all time,
you know, or at least one ofthem.
Um, and and the the thing is isthat we, uh, I idealize these
(43:19):
players as people that don'tmake a lot of mistakes, right,
right, and yet they do.
They just absolutely handlethem a lot differently than the
rest of us.
Right, right, right, and that'swhy we're having this
conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Absolutely the ability to roll with it when it.
When it pops up, right, ok,this happens, yes, this sucks.
And now what do I get to doabout it?
This was actually a big pieceof the gentleman I first
interned under, trevor Moadbefore he passed away.
This idea of neutral thinkingwas like the essence of what he
was really teaching is yes, itdoesn't matter if you're tired
(43:56):
or you just picked up clubs forthe first time, like you're
going to run into something thatwasn't quite what you had in
your plan, and that can be true,while at the same time, it can
also be true that you can dosomething about it.
You can, you can, you know, youcan make it work, you can work
your way through it, whateverway you want to frame that.
But being able to hold boththose side by side, I think, is
key, because if we don't live ina black and white world, it's
(44:18):
not that straightforward.
There's always an opportunityin any sort of challenge and
training ourselves to be able tosee that and not just instantly
get pulled over.
Oh my goodness, this sucks,there goes my round.
Can't believe I made thatmistake again.
Well, if we can get both toshow up, then again, this word
freedom and space and room tobreathe and move keeps coming up
, but I think it really doesstart to deliver it.
(44:50):
What would it be like Trevor, ifyou can have one of your
students be 100% comfortable onhis or her own skin under duress
?
Fantastic.
And to be quite frank, whileobviously I care deeply about
how they perform at golf in thiscase, or whatever sport it may
be playing for me this is asliver of our identity.
It might make up.
It might take up a ton of thetime and a ton of our energy and
resource, and if we can do itout there, there's a very good
chance we can translate that toother areas in life.
(45:11):
And that's what really gets megoing, because we might not walk
off is a great game.
You can play almost forever, um,but nonetheless you're going to
have relationship situations,you're going to have career
situations, you're going to have, you know, check out line at
the grocery store situations,and if you can do it in one spot
, we can usually start to bringit into the others.
And now life just is a littlebit lighter.
(45:32):
You know it's more enjoyable,it's easier to be happy, it's
easier to be, you know, graciousfor what you do have, and I
feel like that is the way tolive.
Otherwise, I mean, I don'tpersonally want to have to
suffer and be annoyed andfrustrated all the time.
That's just not that fun.
Yeah, why not have some funwhile we're here?
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Wow, 100%.
How can people get a hold ofyou, trevor?
Speaker 2 (45:57):
The best way is probably through Instagram.
At the moment, Mindset CoachTrev is my username there.
I'm on there just about everyday.
Try to really prioritizegetting back with folks quite
quickly and if not that they'realways welcome to shoot me an
email.
It's just trevertaleen atgmailcom.
So straightforward, nice andsimple.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
And I'll make sure to put all that information in the
show notes.
And you know, trevor, I reallyappreciate you, thank you, thank
you Appreciate you.
Uh, thanks for saying yes,thanks for coming on and, uh,
and giving us your hard foughtwisdom.
I really appreciate it, hope,hopefully, we'll have you on
again sometime.
And and uh, you know, those wholisten to this, uh, this is
(46:41):
part of you know really myeffort to help bring to you
people like Trevor, to identifythe intangibles and what to do,
how to work with them, how tomake them a part of who we are
in a strength Because the mind,my goodness, trevor, left
(47:01):
unchecked.
It's like an out-of-controlwater hose Just pouring water
all over the place.
Yes, indeed, you're trying towrap your hands around it to
catch it, especially coming downthe stretch, and I really
appreciate you coming on, trevor, and please reach out Whoever's
(47:23):
listening.
Reach out to Trevor.
There are people out there thatare going to help you get over
the hump, the mental, emotionalhump, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
And I'll just say briefly as well, just thank you,
because, for myself, somethingI've realized over this last
decade or so of doing this workis I can only meet so many
people.
I can only have so manyconversations in a day.
So, realistically, for theseideas to really spread, we need
bigger platforms, we needdifferent stages to be able to
stand on so that the words andthe ideas can spread at a
(47:51):
greater scale, and conversationslike this, podcasts like yours,
do that.
So I mean this evolution, thischange, this growth that we hope
to see, and the way folks thinkand relate to their performance
.
It can't happen without all ofthese pieces together.
So thank you for the time andthank you for doing what you do.
This episode is brought to you by Mizuno Golf
and Jumbo Max Grips.
Are you curious?
Hello, this is Jesse Perrymanfrom the Flag Hunters Golf
Podcast, welcoming you toanother edition.
As we are approaching theseason, we are coming out of the
doldrums of wintertime, springis upon us, sun is shining a
(00:26):
little bit longer during the dayand the grass is going to start
getting greener.
For those of you that arehaving to deal with the seasons
and here in California theseasons are very mild, so eat
your heart out.
Anyway, happy pre-master's week.
It is almost upon us and thisweek we have my friend.
(00:47):
His name is Trevor Talene.
He is a mindset coach.
He has a great Instagramchannel called Mindset Trev at
Mindset Trev, and it's the samewith YouTube, at Mindset Trev on
YouTube, and he has somefantastic practical applicatory
(01:11):
methodologies for helping you toplay your best golf and getting
out of your head, moreimportantly, to see things as
they are and practical wisdomand, as I said, applications to
(01:33):
get around the ego, to befriendthe ego, to understand what the
ego wants and to help usnavigate that.
More importantly, trevor workswith elite athletes.
He has for quite some time, hasa background in psychology and
in mental toughness, has acollege athletic background
himself, so he knows what he'stalking about and he's coming
(01:55):
from experience and teachers whohave been there and done that
and they have done the requisitework in the field, both
experientially and educationally, to give us you and I the best
possible chance to play our bestgolf.
Check them out again at mindsetTrev on Instagram and at
(02:20):
mindset Trev on YouTube.
And happy great rest of the week, everyone.
And for the next couple ofweeks I'm going to be releasing
a few more in celebration of theMasters.
I'm going to be releasing somepodcasts, a little bit more than
one per week to get somefantastic conversations out
there and to celebrate our firstmajor of the year, and also to
(02:44):
co-celebrate the Women's Amateurat Augusta as well A powerful
tournament for the ladies,showcasing the world's greatest
amateurs, and having that Sundayat the National is quite
special.
So cheers everyone and have afantastic week.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the Flight Hunters
(03:18):
Golf Podcast.
I am your host, jesse Perryman,and we're giving Justin the
week off.
He's in Singapore, he'steaching, making people better,
and then this week we've got amindset coach.
This is pretty cool.
His name is Trevor Talene and Ifound him on Instagram and it
really is my wish desire toexamine the it Trevor.
(03:46):
Thanks for coming on, bud.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Absolutely, Jesse.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm excited to dive into ittoday and see what we come up
with.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Trevor, you're a mindset coach and you're a
mindset coach for you.
Do some work with IMG, which ispretty high cotton.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yes, indeed, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
How did you get involved, how'd you get started
and what inspired?
You?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That's a wonderful question.
So what really got me startedon this track was my own
roadblocks, my own shortcomings,if you will.
Basketball was my sport growingup as a young lad, all the way
through high school and theninto college and such, and in
college I took probably one ofthe more interesting routes you
could.
(04:29):
I actually, first year ofcollege I decided I didn't want
to play.
I thought I was over it.
It took about three months,realized that was probably one
of the biggest mistakes I hadmade and it was time to get back
into it.
So I took a bit of a risk and Iactually went up to a school in
Iowa, literally in the middle ofa cornfield, a junior college
there, spent two years up therein a town called Mason City,
(04:51):
loved it, said all right, I wantto keep going for this.
So then transferred to a schooldown in Arizona, right outside
the Phoenix area, down in Mesaspecifically.
And that's when things, though,I thought were really charging
ahead.
They actually got a little morebumpy, and about halfway
through that first year there,or so, I decided it was time to
(05:12):
really hang it up and quit.
And when I did that a few weeksafterwards, through some just
self-reflection and kind of justsitting with all those emotions
and thoughts that were flushingthrough, I came to the
conclusion that my goodness, mymind is really what got in my
way here.
This is really probably thebiggest piece holding me back
from playing at that potential Iknow is there, I know is
(05:33):
possible.
So with this realization Idecided was already on the track
to go to graduate school forpsychology in general, just
didn't know which way I wantedto specialize that and I
consider myself incredibly luckyfor this opportunity.
But I actually started reachingout to a few professionals in
the sports psychology world thatwere in that area and was
(05:54):
incredibly blessed to get thechance to intern with Trevor
Moad at his office over inScottsdale.
They're a small team, justTrevor, a gentleman named Sean
Kelly Quinn, and they had avideographer there, jonathan
Schultz, and they kind of tookme under their wing.
I saw everything that they weredoing and learned from who I
consider to be one of theabsolute best in our field while
(06:14):
he was working for some reallylarge programs.
But just got the bug and fromthere it was off to graduate
school and now we're here.
The rest is kind of in historyand now we're here, the rest is
kind of in history.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So If I'm a player and I need help with my mindset
and I reach out to you, I say,Trevor, I've, I've got some.
You know I'm getting in my ownway.
How would you start thatprocess?
What would that process look inthe beginning?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
That's a great question for myself.
Where I like to start is I gotto understand who you are.
I got to understand what we'redealing with here.
What has it maybe looked likein the past and maybe where are
you hoping to take things in thefuture and just what's getting
in the way of that, what'smaking that more difficult?
So we start with a quick, easy30-minute chat.
I'm going to have somequestions.
(06:59):
I just want to hear folks' storytheir background and from that
initial conversation we'rehoping we can find at least one
piece, one little lever that wecan start to work with a little
bit and from that changehopefully start to see some
different sort of results,performance, et cetera, whatever
you want to call it actuallyout on the course.
And from that point it's afluid and ever-adapting and
(07:21):
evolving process.
Human beings are constantlychanging from day to day, so
therefore what we're dealingwith, how we relate to it, what
comes up for us, is changing aswell.
So then it's really acollaborative partnership.
I mean, whether that's we talkonce a month or twice a month or
four times a month, no, justchecking in what's been going on
, giving ideas, giving tactics,getting feedback and just kind
(07:41):
of working that process throughuntil folks feel like they're at
a at a good spot.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That sounds great.
My, uh, the the majority of thelisteners that listen to this
program, trevor, are pretty goodplayers.
Um, and once you get to acertain proficiency with your
golf swing, it no longer is yourgolf swing and it becomes
(08:09):
something else.
In addition to that, not thattechnique is not important, it
very, very much is.
But you need to learn how todrive the vehicle after you've
built it.
And some people run up againstsome of the mental blocks
getting in their own way.
Maybe they're trying to, youknow, chase out, chase their
(08:31):
fear or outrun their fear on adriving range trying to figure
it out.
But you know, you and I bothknow, and a lot of people know
this, that once you get to acertain level, it's not your
golf swing, it does become.
What's going on under the hood?
Yeah, can you describe that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
absolutely well.
I'd say this is true in golfand I'd say this is true in
probably a variety of sports, ifnot all of them.
I mean, we see this especiallyas we get to the upper levels of
things at a certain point, andeven at the highest level, like
you, can't do much moretechnique wise, right it is.
It is almost maxed out in asense, and what then starts to
(09:11):
create that edge in thatsituation is exactly what you're
mentioning.
It is the mind.
It is how we relate to theadversity, the friction, the,
you know, the, the situationsthat go wrong.
I mean, how we work with all ofthat is realistically, and of
course I'm biased in this nature, but I think one of the biggest
aspects of it, as you mentioned, your technique is always
important and sure that mightrefine over year, over year, and
that's totally cool.
(09:31):
And oftentimes, I mean,everything runs through the mind
first at least this is myopinion, right?
I mean we look at the world,how we react to it, what comes
up for us is all processingthrough the mind.
So if we're not working withthat space, well then we're kind
of doing ourselves a disservice.
I personally think.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, I agree, and I do believe that this is the
missing link.
You know, with the advent oftrack band and force plates and
everything that you can look atunder the sun to see what your
body is doing in space with agolf club, I think we've got.
We've got that pretty dialed.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You don't have the mind dialed no, no, and I'd say
do we ever fully get it dialed?
Perhaps not, but we have to atleast be in the and I don't know
, fight is even quite the rightword, but we at least got to be
engaged with it right, buildingthat awareness so that we know
all right what little uh pivotschanges, adaptations do I need
(10:30):
to make along the way?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Sure, here I got it.
I got a question for you,Trevor, this is a good one.
Um, this has come from a few ofmy friends.
My my friends said you know, ifyou ever get any mindset people
on your podcast, you know, askhim this.
So I'm going to ask you this.
There's been a lot of talkabout, you know, how do you get
(10:59):
over breaking 80, breaking 90and that stuff.
But in the case of thequestions that I get is, how do
you get your nervous system usedto being under par,
significantly under par, even?
You know, what I found with afew of the questions that I've
asked is a threshold of whereone would be comfortable.
I've mentioned this severaltimes.
For me, it's a certain amountunder par and then, once I get
beyond that, the speed wobblesstart happening right.
(11:21):
Sure, start happening right.
So my question to you is how doyou, how do you, get used to
being significantly under parand not let it stop you from
doing the things that you did toget to that?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
place?
That's a great question.
My mind goes to, I guess, kindof three elements here to begin.
The first one, and perhaps themost important, at least in my
mind initially here, isawareness.
So I mean, it clearly soundslike you have a good grasp on
where this threshold exists.
I'm not sure if every playerhas that.
(11:59):
If they don't, let's startthere, let's start to understand
.
When do things start to feel alittle wonky, a little shaky?
For me here, a great way ofdoing that is, I will perhaps
not the world's greatest kind ofanalogy for it, but I'll kind
of use the image of a stoplightand we can kind of look at those
three colors green, yellow andred and we can associate these
(12:22):
with these different states.
So what does green feel like?
Well, that's when we're in ourgroove, we're in the zone, we're
just rocking and rolling, we'redoing our thing.
That's perfect, wonderful,that's helpful to know.
But perhaps, maybe even theleast important one to really
have a grasp on, what's reallyimportant in my book is that
yellow, because that's going tobe the signs, the signals, the
cues of when we're starting toapproach that threshold.
(12:44):
And in my mind, if we can pickthat threshold up earlier or
quicker or sooner.
Well then it's far easier tokind, of course, correct and get
ourselves back down to thatgreen Comparatively, if we blow
right past that yellow and allof a sudden it's a hole later
and it's oh crap, I didn'trealize like I'm really feeling
it right now and we're in thatfull-blown red state.
It's far more difficult tobring ourselves back to that
(13:07):
grounded place, especially if wehaven't trained any sort of
tools, techniques, strategies,whatever it is you want to call
it that'll help us do so.
So for one, I think it'sawareness, and that's not just
awareness of the thoughts,that's awareness of the body.
For myself, it's always mypalms.
When my palms start to getsweaty, I know, all right, this
might be a moment to kind ofjust recenter or reground myself
(13:28):
here If my chest starts to geta bit tight.
Okay, I know, maybe I'm alittle more elevated than even
just the palms.
So picking up these signals, Ithink, are huge.
It's different for everybody.
I'd say that's kind of step oneand two.
The third piece, though, I wouldadd, is like let's get outside.
We're talking golf herespecifically.
Let's get outside of golf andlet's go put ourselves in other
(13:50):
situations in life that maybeincrease a little pressure for
ourselves and we can buildconfidence, handling those
moments of adversity, even ifit's in a completely different
aspect of life.
And what we oftentimes find isthat will help translate over to
the golf course, because it'snervous system is the nervous
system.
It doesn't know if we'replaying golf or if we're like
you know, we just got cut off intraffic.
(14:10):
There really is not a massivedifference there, it just reacts
.
So if we can find our way inother moments of life to ground
recenter, you know, manage thosemoments.
I think that also plays quitenicely and gives folks a little
bit of an edge benefit whenthey're back out on the course
itself.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I think that's very, very well said, trevor.
I really like that.
I like the awareness partbecause I think that, by and
large, especially in the UnitedStates, where we've over-trained
the physical so much that whenwe do bump up against some
adversity, we don't necessarilyhave the mental tools to
(14:51):
reground ourself, to connectwith whatever it is that we need
to connect with to get us backin the here and now, absolutely,
would agree.
It's, like you know, just mycomfort zone, which I'm going to
do whatever I can to breakthrough.
It is four under.
As soon as I get to four under,I start getting a little shaky.
Sure, I can cruise all the waythere, but once I get to four,
(15:16):
for whatever reason, so you know, I'm just as much of an
inquisitor in this case asanybody.
Sure, sure, you know what aresome of the things that you can
suggest.
Say that somebody is bumping upagainst that, or they're
playing in a golf tournament andthey might find themselves in
the lead.
Mm-hmm, you know, there'sanother kind of a happy accident
(15:39):
problem.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Sir Sure, of course.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, is it a case of being there, uh, getting
yourself in position to get thenervous system acquiesced to
that level of, you know, quoteunquote pressure?
I think that all pressure isinternal anyway, but is that
part of it?
Um, is part of it, maybe,connecting to the breath?
You know what, what, what can,what are?
(16:05):
Give us us some clues of whatwe can do when we do get
ourselves in that situation?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Absolutely.
There's two things that come tomind here, and I'll mention the
first.
First and then the second isprobably just as, if not more,
important.
The first piece is and this isobviously not a wonderful answer
, but it really depends is andthis is obviously not a
wonderful answer, but it reallydepends no cool strategy
(16:30):
technique that I ever suggestwith an athlete is a
one-size-fits-all.
Humans aren't one-size-fits-all, so we always got to be willing
and open to customize these alittle bit.
So I'm hesitant to ever givelike try this and this will do
it.
However, you can take generalprinciples so breathwork
absolutely.
Now, there's a milliondifferent ways to do it.
However, you can take generalprinciples so breath work
Absolutely Now.
There's a million differentways to do that and knowing what
works best for you, what feelsmost comfortable, well, great,
(16:52):
once we fine tune that, that'sexcellent.
For an example, one techniquethat I will share with a lot of
folks is one referred to asresonance frequency breathing.
There's a good amount ofresearch done on this technique
and it's directly related toheart rate variability, and what
we see is, when we dive intothis resonance frequency
breathing, which is typicallyabout a four second inhale, six
(17:14):
second exhale, we know thatstarts to create a better
synchronization betweenbreathing rhythm, heart rhythm,
starts to create a little moreflexibility in the nervous
system.
So therefore it's one that Iwould highly recommend to folks.
But in other cases it can bekeywords, it can be physical
actions, if you want.
I actually have and I don'thave it here with me, but I
(17:35):
actually have a plastic tinytoilet.
It's about this big, and I'lluse that sometimes with folks as
a reminder to just flush it.
When situations come up and wefeel like we can't grasp them,
let's just get rid of it thatway.
Worked with a young golfer theother day and we were talking
about similar ideas.
Wind pressure starts to reallybuild up.
How do we let it go?
(17:55):
For some reason, throughout ourdiscussion the idea of a
balloon came up.
So we said, all right, well,why not bring a little balloon
with us, like put it in our bagor put it in our pocket,
whatever it may be?
He loved the color orange, sowe made an orange balloon, so
it's personalized and it'sspecial to them, no-transcript.
So with all of that said, thebiggest piece I probably harp on
(18:18):
with the folks I work with isnone of this works if we don't
practice it, and ideally wedon't want to practice this when
we're in the heat of the moment.
Right, professional athletesdon't practice when the stands
are packed and the lights arebright.
They do it when no one's around.
And so for any of these toolswe got to do it the same way.
We got to build it in acomfortable environment where
(18:40):
our nervous system is morerelaxed, so we can really build
that familiarity.
And then, as we stack thosedays together and we get out in
competition, well now, when wego and lean on it, the recall is
quicker, the body knows what todo, the brain knows how to
respond and we can actually getthe desired effect.
So tool is great, but if wedon't practice it, the tool,
(19:00):
quite frankly, is kind ofuseless oftentimes.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, that's, that is absolutely well said, trevor.
I appreciate that getting yournervous system prepared is
literally a regular practice,and 100 percent it's just the
same as going out and hittingballs or tripping and putting
and working on the tangibles.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Absolutely and it's, you know, our, our, our, our
body and mind's way ofresponding to situations didn't
come this way in a day.
So therefore we are not goingto get it to be different in a
day.
I mean it takes the reps, ittakes building that strength.
It to be different in a day.
I mean it takes the reps, ittakes building that strength.
And this is a good place wherewe can use data.
In a previous role we workedvery closely with different
(19:44):
wearable technology and this wasa really nice way of saying,
hey, look, you go do thispractice and then look, we can
check back in and see that heartrate variability is increasing
or that resting heart rate isgetting a lot lower.
So we can use data in a helpfulway.
But it really takes two totango here to get it across the
line that we want to.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, that's very well said and I think that you
know I love this quote from TomWatson.
I've said it several times.
But he said I didn't learn howto win until I learned how to
breathe.
So somebody asked me the otherday about breath work and I said
well, you have to practice it.
You have to practice it.
(20:26):
You can't just magically callupon it when you're going
sideways in the middle of a golftournament.
Right, right, actually, have towork on it.
It has to become a part of your.
You know the pie chart?
Absolutely, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And what I find oftentimes is when folks don't
practice it, what will happen is, if they even remember to use
it in the midst of, let's say, agolf tournament, which usually
we don't if we're not that closeto it, if we don't practice it
well, then it doesn't work realgreat.
And then all of a sudden we'resitting at the end of that day
or that tournament or that round.
We're like, well, screw that,I'm never doing that again.
It didn't even work Well, wejust didn't even give ourselves
(21:02):
the chance for it to work in thefirst place.
And therefore you can seepeople you know get kind of just
, I guess, let down or just kindof lose hope that these tools
actually work, when in realityyou just got to put the right
inputs in to get the rightoutputs just got to put the
right inputs in.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
To get the right outputs, yeah, yeah.
And since you know what we'retalking about isn't a one size
fits all for everyone, andrightfully so how do you?
You know, give us, give, giveme some examples of what you
would do to find what does workfor us.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Great question.
The first thing that we'regoing to pull on that I
typically pull on is pastexperiences.
We know from research done byAlfred Bandura, even late 70s
and such, that our self-efficacy, our belief in a certain skill
is very impacted by how the pasthas played out, has played out.
(21:59):
So we're going to go back.
What were some high pressuremoments or intense situations
that you felt you navigatedthrough nicely?
What happened?
How did it feel?
What'd you do?
We're just going to kind ofcrowdsource all this different
information and try to build outsome sort of mosaic, if you
will, of all these differentinsights From that.
Then we'll start to simplify andsay, okay, well, what do you
maybe want to try out?
This is a really importantpiece too when it comes to these
(22:24):
techniques.
I will frame it like it's likeyou're going to go buy a new
jacket.
Well, when you go buy that newjacket, you don't just like grab
, maybe some people do, but youdon't typically just grab it off
the shelf and say, boom, I'mwalking out the store.
You want to go try it on.
You want to see if it fits yourarm length.
You want to see if it fits yourshoulders.
Does it zip up?
Is it too snug, is it not?
These techniques are the sameway.
So we'll crowdsource that pastto figure out, maybe, what has
worked.
Great, we come up with an ideaand then we're not married to it
(22:46):
.
We're just going to go test itout, right Almost like an
iterative process here, kind ofan agile way of thinking.
We're going to go use it, we'regoing to change it, manipulate
it, mold it, whatever you wantto say, until we get something
that really feels nice and great.
Then we'll stick with that fora while.
So that's kind of how we'd workthrough that process.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Do you ever bump up against anybody that doesn't
have the ability to be objectivein the feedback, if they're
attaching, you know, maybe amissed opportunity or choking
down the stretch to somethingcompletely negative and it
clouds their, their, their knownobservational capability.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I would say, yes, it is.
It probably comes up initially.
What I find with a lot of Imean, all my work is it's just
conversations like this.
It's, you know, 40, 60 minutesand we're just talking questions
, thoughts, throwing out ideas.
So initially, yes, you mightget that kind of right off the
bat, but then usually that'swhat I train myself to be good
at I kind of poke some holes init, challenge it a little bit,
(23:48):
try to extract out what might betrue and what might just be
kind of misinformation meshed in.
So I think that is really theimportance of having a sounding
board, a mirror, a mirror, acoach, whatever it is you want
to call it, because when we'redoing that on our own,
(24:09):
absolutely I'd say that's evenmore dangerous and more likely
that we will get kind of someconflicting ideas there.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, great answer.
Great answer, you know, this is, this is as much for me as it
is for for anybody out there.
I mean, you know we're as muchfor me as it is for anybody out
there.
I mean, you know, we're veryhuman and we do want to play
well, and especially in acompetitive environment.
But I'll tell you, you know,what we haven't trained my
(24:33):
goodness does it show up andwhat we have trained my goodness
does it show up.
How trained, my goodness doesit show up and to take a step
back and remove the positive ornegative or black and white
charge of the situation and togo into observation mode.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, yeah, I was actually just sharing this with
some athletes the other day Iwork with.
There's a great, though not agolfer.
There's a great, kobe Bryant.
Little kind of excerpt from aninterview he did once before and
he kind of talks about thisthat you know, performance is
not really that black and whiteand if we're making it just that
, it's going to be a bumpy andkind of long and probably not as
enjoyable road and instead wewant to tap into this mentality
(25:13):
of we're a problem solver, we'rean observer, we're a watcher,
we're just trying to figure itout.
We're trying to, of course youhear this all the time just get
a percent or two better each day.
But if we can embrace that sortof way of looking at things,
it's not about being perfect,it's not about the win or the
loss, it's about just evolvingas a human being, but then as a
competitor as well, and in allthese different identities that
(25:33):
are within ourselves, 100 agreeyeah, yeah, that's well said and
it's you know, look at thingsas they are and not with a with
(26:02):
a certain expectation and orattachment.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And this is kind of you know, I feel that here in
the U?
S we're starting to shift,we're starting to agree, you
know, agreed, agreed, and Ithink that these conversations
are at the forefront of thatshift.
Yeah, because it's you and Igrew up in kind of a different
era where you know, it's it'shustle culture, it's performance
(26:30):
, and if you and if you, youknow, if you don't do well, you
suck, or you know, there isn't alot of problem solving,
observational skills, problemsolving, until now, thankfully.
So you know, changing theparadigm is a big, a big thing
that I'm inspired by, or atleast, at least helping it.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Absolutely we seem to have this and perhaps
historically we have, and Iagree this 100% is starting to
shift in a lot of ways.
In the West we have this kindof mentality where, well, I just
got to work harder, I just gotto force more, I just got to
grip it tighter and it's like,well, realistically, in a lot of
cases things would be muchbetter if we just let go for a
second, if we just took a stepback and did nothing.
(27:16):
What do you know, things mightactually settle out.
The clarity reappears when westop trying or efforting quite
so hard.
I will, in different terms ordifferent ways, talk a lot about
with athletes this idea ofeffort versus ease, where we
don't always need to be pushingand trying and training more.
Sometimes it is better just tosit back, observe, be the
(27:37):
watcher, not speak, and justkind of take in and then through
that, well, we understand andwe learn how to relate to it all
a little bit better, which isawareness and insight and wisdom
, all kind of working togetherat that point.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
How can we pivot there, trevor?
How can we awaken thisobservational skill, trevor?
How can we awaken thisobservational skill, you know?
How can we detach from thepositive and negative, or at
least the charge that weassociate that with?
How can we take a step back andlook at the whole picture as it
(28:14):
is and then take the parts thatwe need to work on and have the
wisdom to be able to pull backand let go and observe.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So yeah, sir, great question.
There's surely there's aplethora of ways, right Again,
with different practices andways about going through things
to that really come to mind offthe bat is one idea, obviously
not brand new by any concept,especially in areas such as the
East and such but mindfulness,right, I mean just the practice
(28:46):
of observing, without attaching,without judging, without
critiquing, I mean justimmensely beneficial.
What I find, unfortunately,when it comes to ideas like this
mindfulness, meditation andobviously there's a plethora of
different ways we can meditateWe've done a really, really poor
job of displaying the variety,so I actually even did this one
(29:07):
day.
If you Google search likemeditate or mindfulness, you get
one photo and it's the personsitting cross-legged with their
hands, like this, and that'sgoing to work for maybe 10% of
people, but the other 90%, ourbrains don't function that way,
so we need to do it in othermanners.
So we'll work with folks on,you know, movement based
meditation or mindfulness.
Right, let's go I'm here inMexico Currently let's go walk
(29:29):
down the beach and let's justnotice what the sand feels like,
and when our mind drifts off toother places, we just bring it
back to the same.
Sit there and you listen tomusic, listen to a song or
something along these lines, andwhen the mind starts drifting
off to oh shoot, did I like turnoff the toaster, or whatever
random thought it is, we comeback to that piece.
So that would be, I think, apractice that people can embody.
(29:51):
For a more specific strategythat allows us to kind of zoom
out, I will talk a lot withfolks about taking the 30,000
foot approach, meaning I'lloftentimes try to ask what's the
biggest city you've ever beenin.
Let's take New York, forexample.
If you're in New York City andyou look around and you're
standing on a certain street orintersection, all you see is
(30:12):
these massive buildings.
You can't see out, you can'tsee the sky, you can't see
anything.
That can feel incrediblyoverwhelming, much like our golf
game can at points when thisfeels like all that there is.
But what then I'll challengefolks to do is say well, what
happens when you're in anairplane and you're flying above
New York City at 20,000, 30,000feet?
Well, now, all of a sudden, youcan see the much larger picture
(30:33):
, you can see how things fit inand you can see how those
buildings were actually justpart of this neighborhood or
whatever it may be.
I think that's a very usefulskill for life, but certainly
golf as well.
It might feel like everythingis closing in around us, but
let's actually zoom out, let'stake a look at what's really
been happening here.
Maybe let's look at the past,let's look at all the variables
(30:55):
and aspects involved, and thisoftentimes will help us kind of
widen that lens a little bit,get a better perspective and
then understand okay, maybe Iwas making too big of a deal out
of this or maybe I'm not makinga big deal out of this.
Gives us better direction,better clarity, and from there
we can proceed onward.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, yeah, it requires a little bit of the ego
to take a backseat.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Certainly.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Certainly.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and, and, and, and
though I think that can be I'lluse the word scary at times,
because we are live in a worldwhere, like ego is, you know,
that's who we are, it's who I am.
What do you mean?
When we're able to sit withthat feeling for a bit and
explore that space a bit more,actually life gets incredibly
(31:41):
better.
You know, it's easier to workthrough frustrating situations,
things that maybe really gotunder our skin beforehand.
They don't quite do it the sameas they once did.
It just allows so much morefreedom, autonomy and just kind
of just more alignment, I wouldsay, with folks, actual values
and what they care about andwhat they actually go do in life
.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, yeah, well said , well said, trevor.
I mean it bears repeating toothat, as, as we've discussed
this, I still keep going back towe we've analyzed the golf
swing.
We we've we've created tylosperformance institute has
(32:22):
created a great program to helpgolfers get better, get more
mobile, uh, create more powerand and uh to to look at it
legitimately as a sport.
And it is um.
But the observations of thegreats, um, and you could just
take golf for an example, or anysport.
(32:43):
They like Tiger Woods, tigerWoods and Jack Nicklaus, bobby
Jones, ben Hogan they had tohave been the greatest at not
allowing distractions to entertheir consciousness, or if it
did, there's literally noenergetic charge to it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
False flat.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, you know, kobe, you know just these great
people that they don't letthings happen, penetrate,
whatever it is that theirmission is.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And I think a big key there is the last piece.
You said what their mission isand I feel like oftentimes we
work from a space of Ooh, justdon't let the distraction, don't
let the distractions in, don'tlet them in, but we don't ever
give ourselves something to thenfocus on instead.
So incredibly helpful to say,all right, well, what really is
my purpose with today?
What really is the goal, theintention?
(33:46):
Like, let's find something.
Sure, we don't want to getsucked into all these things,
but what do we actually want toget focused on?
And when we have that, itbecomes far easier again, almost
like this mindfulness muscle,to say, oh, there's that
distracting thought, no worries,let me come back to what
actually matters.
Without that, you know, you'rekind of, you're kind of in the
dark.
They're just kind of floatingaround like yeah, keep this all
(34:07):
the way, but I don't know whatto actually pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, and that goes back to practicing something
before we actually get into in asituation where these thoughts
will arise Certainly.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Certainly you got to get comfortable first will arise
, certainly, certainly.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, you gotta get comfortable first.
Yeah, uh, cam smith saidsomething after he won the
british open in 22 at st andrews.
He said you know, a reporterasked him a question and I've
said this several times, but itbears repeating because I think
it's so incredibly powerful, andthat is somebody asked him what
the difference was this weekand he had a couple of of
moments during 72 holes thatwent a little sideways and he
said you know what?
(34:48):
What works for me is I'm verygood at being comfortable while
being uncomfortable, and I thinkthat that there, for the
majority of us myself includedwe don't want to be
uncomfortable.
Yeah, certainly, you know, andif you get yourself out in
(35:09):
position more than once or twice, you're going to feel those
feelings, you're going to haveanxiety, things are going to
come up, the brain's going towant to be into prediction mode.
You're going to start timetraveling.
Sure, well, if I do this and dothis, do this, I can shoot 66,
or if only if I didn't miss thatthree foot or two holes ago,
(35:31):
I'd be.
You know, whatever, whateverthe threshold is, you're trying
to ascend through, uh, or justgetting yourself in these
positions where your nervoussystem starts to go.
Okay, danger, will Robinson.
So all of these thoughts areincredibly huge, like an anchor
thought, like something toanchor you, keep you grounded.
(35:54):
And then the here and now.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Right, exactly, I could not agree more.
And that can change from day today, right, I mean, depending
on what the objective is or whatthe adversity or situations
you're dealing with.
That, honestly, probably shouldchange majority of days because
it's got to be relevant to asyou mentioned here and now and
the more familiar we are withthat.
Again, yes, takes practice.
We got to build the strength tostay connected with it, but it
(36:23):
gives us almost a bit of freedomsay, well, I don't really need
to be concerned with thatbecause this is actually what
matters.
Now.
There's a analogy.
We'll say, uh, in sports, psych, space, a lot of when, what's
important now and like, let'sjust keep coming back to that.
It can be a simple way of kindof honestly, probably the
biggest piece, keeping it simpleand just saying this is all I
care about, this is what's goingto kind of drive me through
today and just staying close tothat.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Well said.
One of the all-time greats hadhe had such a simple thing,
walter Hagen.
He said that he didn't allowhimself to get upset during the
course of a round until he's hitseven bad shots.
How about that?
It's like one of the greatestplayers of all time.
So for him to hit seven badshots, it's got to be a really,
(37:08):
really bad day.
Like a really bad day.
It'd be like Tiger or Jack orBen Hogan saying I'm not going
to get pissed off until I hitseven bad shots.
I think that's kind of boy.
You want to talk about freedom.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, there's a lot of room in that.
Yeah, absolutely, there's spacein that, right.
And and we're not.
I've seen this with athletes, Imean, countless times when we
feel as if our back is upagainst the wall, we have
nowhere to go, there's no roomto breathe.
Well, then we start acting outof fear.
Right where we start actingfrom a scarcity type mentality,
I mean, the nervous system,quite literally, is pinged over
to the more sympathetic side,where we can't perform our best
(37:45):
at that point.
So, whichever way we need toframe it, so that we feel as if
I got a little space and alittle room to move here
Fantastic, let's do it, let'slean into that, because it's
probably going to pay off andit's going to allow us to handle
that first punch and thatsecond punch with a little more
grace, which is probably goingto then boost confidence, keep
us more motivated and give usmore momentum as we continue to
(38:07):
play the round or the tournament, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, what a powerful conversation.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, I have to agree .
Speaker 1 (38:15):
This is pretty good stuff, you know, I Trevor.
I hope that in the years tocome, and starting now with this
paradigm shift, that this isactually being taught in
elementary schools.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Oh, I surely hope so too.
Interesting enough, I actually,about a year or so ago, did
some work for a micro schoolactually, as you mentioned,
elementary school down out ofAustin, texas, and then they're
based in Miami and Denver aswell of Austin Texas and then
they're based in Miami andDenver as well and my whole role
was building out curriculum forgrit and grit and growth,
mindset, creating challenges andand and and exercises and and
(38:49):
um workshops, et cetera, thatwere quite literally focused on
these exact topics.
And I think if we can get thoseseeds planted, then I mean we,
we do, we do potentially do somuch good for folks, not only in
that time, because if a youngman or a woman or a young boy or
girl can handle those growingsituations with this sort of
(39:11):
ideology or wisdom, then mygoodness, by the time they're a
bit older and then, as lifecontinues on, they're going to
be in a completely differentplace, and it really is
important.
So I'm right there with you.
I think it should beinterjected into just about
everything.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, yeah, one thing that I found too from the
greats they know how to take thegood with the bad.
It's a part of the process,it's a part of the journey.
You know it's there.
They appreciate the good andthey also appreciate the bad,
from learning perspective.
And, uh, and, and neither areeither, uh, the what, what's the
(39:51):
word I'm looking for?
Uh, the bad isn't demonized andthe good isn't, uh, idolized,
right, right, you know they are.
We have our preferences, ofcourse, but there's a certain
you've got to train the nervoussystem and you have to have a
(40:12):
mindset to be able to acceptthat, you know.
But if you talk about, I meanultimately, what would it be
like if somebody is on the golfcourse under duress, you know,
and their nervous system isstarting to freak out a little
bit, but they have the tools andthe resources internally to be
able to reground themselves andreek and to recreate that room,
(40:33):
that space, that freedom.
You know, I, I think that tigeris such a great example of this
because he had, he never lostsight of the freedom to be
himself out there, no matterwhat, no matter what was
happening.
Yeah, you know, and, and that'slike you have to, it's like one
(40:56):
of the intentions.
If you, if, if, if someone issetting an intention for around
you, this is your groundingpoint.
Point, no matter what happens.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think massively important, right?
This is the space I want tooperate from today and I'm going
to stay in this box in a sense.
And it does not mean and Ithink people get this confused
sometimes when it comes to themental performance training or
mindset work is that thisdoesn't mean bad things aren't
going to happen.
This doesn't mean you're notgoing to get hit with all sorts
(41:26):
of adversity, like that is stillgoing to show up and will show
up every single round and everysingle day of your life perhaps.
But what it does change is, asyou're mentioning, the space.
We have to work with it, andwhat we really start to see is
the more times you do that well,do that well.
This is, I mean, you can haveconfidence in your ability to do
this, just like anything else.
So you take tiger in from avery young age I would imagine
(41:48):
he got fairly decent at this.
Well, then you start to havethat belief that, well, I, if I
could do this, then why can't Ido this?
Now?
Right, and and now it's almostlike that threshold you're
mentioning.
Well, now it continues to grow,because what used to set us off
right here, well, over time,that doesn't really mean that
much or matter that much anymore.
And now it's all the way uphere that we got to get to,
until anything actually causesuh, you know some some wrinkles
(42:11):
in the plan.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So yeah, 100 agreed yeah, yeah, I think, uh, the
expectation should be that atsome point you are going to face
adversity, like that's beingvery realistic, absolutely, and
and and I find it sad actuallythat there's a lot of guys, like
(42:34):
in my handicap genre, that dogo out and they play a high
level of amateur golf but theystill surprised if they hit it
like shit.
It's just wild to me, it's liketheir egos won't let them.
And then I'm thinking to myself.
You know, I'm going to continueto go back to Tiger.
I know that he had days wherehe only hit like six, seven,
(42:55):
maybe eight greens in regulationand he still found a way to
stay in it.
You know, he still found a way,and that's that's mindset 100%
agreed.
100% agreed you know, probablythe greatest winner of all time,
you know, or at least one ofthem.
Um, and and the the thing is isthat we, uh, I idealize these
(43:19):
players as people that don'tmake a lot of mistakes, right,
right, and yet they do.
They just absolutely handlethem a lot differently than the
rest of us.
Right, right, right, and that'swhy we're having this
conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Absolutely the ability to roll with it when it.
When it pops up, right, ok,this happens, yes, this sucks.
And now what do I get to doabout it?
This was actually a big pieceof the gentleman I first
interned under, trevor Moadbefore he passed away.
This idea of neutral thinkingwas like the essence of what he
was really teaching is yes, itdoesn't matter if you're tired
(43:56):
or you just picked up clubs forthe first time, like you're
going to run into something thatwasn't quite what you had in
your plan, and that can be true,while at the same time, it can
also be true that you can dosomething about it.
You can, you can, you know, youcan make it work, you can work
your way through it, whateverway you want to frame that.
But being able to hold boththose side by side, I think, is
key, because if we don't live ina black and white world, it's
(44:18):
not that straightforward.
There's always an opportunityin any sort of challenge and
training ourselves to be able tosee that and not just instantly
get pulled over.
Oh my goodness, this sucks,there goes my round.
Can't believe I made thatmistake again.
Well, if we can get both toshow up, then again, this word
freedom and space and room tobreathe and move keeps coming up
, but I think it really doesstart to deliver it.
(44:50):
What would it be like Trevor, ifyou can have one of your
students be 100% comfortable onhis or her own skin under duress
?
Fantastic.
And to be quite frank, whileobviously I care deeply about
how they perform at golf in thiscase, or whatever sport it may
be playing for me this is asliver of our identity.
It might make up.
It might take up a ton of thetime and a ton of our energy and
resource, and if we can do itout there, there's a very good
chance we can translate that toother areas in life.
(45:11):
And that's what really gets megoing, because we might not walk
off is a great game.
You can play almost forever, um,but nonetheless you're going to
have relationship situations,you're going to have career
situations, you're going to have, you know, check out line at
the grocery store situations,and if you can do it in one spot
, we can usually start to bringit into the others.
And now life just is a littlebit lighter.
(45:32):
You know it's more enjoyable,it's easier to be happy, it's
easier to be, you know, graciousfor what you do have, and I
feel like that is the way tolive.
Otherwise, I mean, I don'tpersonally want to have to
suffer and be annoyed andfrustrated all the time.
That's just not that fun.
Yeah, why not have some funwhile we're here?
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Wow, 100%.
How can people get a hold ofyou, trevor?
Speaker 2 (45:57):
The best way is probably through Instagram.
At the moment, Mindset CoachTrev is my username there.
I'm on there just about everyday.
Try to really prioritizegetting back with folks quite
quickly and if not that they'realways welcome to shoot me an
email.
It's just trevertaleen atgmailcom.
So straightforward, nice andsimple.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
And I'll make sure to put all that information in the
show notes.
And you know, trevor, I reallyappreciate you, thank you, thank
you Appreciate you.
Uh, thanks for saying yes,thanks for coming on and, uh,
and giving us your hard foughtwisdom.
I really appreciate it, hope,hopefully, we'll have you on
again sometime.
And and uh, you know, those wholisten to this, uh, this is
(46:41):
part of you know really myeffort to help bring to you
people like Trevor, to identifythe intangibles and what to do,
how to work with them, how tomake them a part of who we are
in a strength Because the mind,my goodness, trevor, left
(47:01):
unchecked.
It's like an out-of-controlwater hose Just pouring water
all over the place.
Yes, indeed, you're trying towrap your hands around it to
catch it, especially coming downthe stretch, and I really
appreciate you coming on, trevor, and please reach out Whoever's
(47:23):
listening.
Reach out to Trevor.
There are people out there thatare going to help you get over
the hump, the mental, emotionalhump, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
And I'll just say briefly as well, just thank you,
because, for myself, somethingI've realized over this last
decade or so of doing this workis I can only meet so many
people.
I can only have so manyconversations in a day.
So, realistically, for theseideas to really spread, we need
bigger platforms, we needdifferent stages to be able to
stand on so that the words andthe ideas can spread at a
(47:51):
greater scale, and conversationslike this, podcasts like yours,
do that.
So I mean this evolution, thischange, this growth that we hope
to see, and the way folks thinkand relate to their performance
.
It can't happen without all ofthese pieces together.
So thank you for the time andthank you for doing what you do.
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