How to double trading newsletter sales in 3 months.

Episode Transcript
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John Newtson (00:02):
All right, hey everyone.
I'm here today with BrettHolmes and Dan Passarelli.
We're going to talk aboutreally just kind of do a hot
seat session.
Dan has been very, very braveand generous with this
willingness to kind of come inhere and like kind of open the
books and let Brett and I kindof dig into what he's got going
on with the business and lookfor ways for him to grow the

(00:24):
business, find more revenue,kind of solve some problems.
So first off, dan, thank youvery much for being willing to
do this.
And for anyone who doesn't knowBrett, I should say Dan has a
great business calledMarketTaker.
You've been how long have youbeen a trader educator?

Dan (00:41):
I've had market taker.
I want to say 16 years wow, wow, yeah.

So you've seen a thing or two, and brett holmes
um is.
I think everybody in the fmspro community knows you.
Most people in the fms worldknow you, um, but I want to give
your quick background too, forany new folks who might not be
familiar with you.

Bret Holmes (01:00):
Okay, uh, I'm going on 17 years 17 years in this
industry.
Before that, I was an internetkid at 18.
I started with adcom and gotlucky when I was young, being
able to do HTML and PHP when Iwas 18, which afforded me a lot
of opportunities to work in thisworld.
And then I went and I was anengineer for a little bit, as a

(01:21):
cold fusion engineer.
That used to be a programminglanguage that idiots could do,
so that's what I I did, and thenI found out really quick that
the only thing that I did betterthan guys that were a lot
cheaper was speak English betterthan they did.
So I found myself commenting oncode for Northrop Grumman in
the Navy and it was nice being apart of a large organization,
but then I found Agora, whichwas right up the street from me.

(01:42):
I was working in downtownBaltimore and then a friend of
mine was at Agora and from thereAgora was just starting to get
started with being serious aboutonline advertising and websites
and things, and it was a very,very again I'd say 80% of my
success has been being in theright place at the right time.
And from Agora just growing acompany from zero to 250 million

(02:04):
a year and from Agora, justgrowing a company from zero to
250 million a year, 200 milliona year, seeing that growth over
15 years.
And then from Agora I just wentand worked with I've been doing
this kind of thing for probablyabout five years, which I find.
I mean, trust me, I loveworking for one company.
It gets a little mundane, givenyour skill set sometimes, um,

(02:25):
it gets a little mundane givenyour skillset Sometimes, um,
it's.
It's a lot more exciting for meto work with a bunch of people,
especially at different levels.
Some people are going from zeroto the first a hundred K.
Some people are going trying togo from 500 K to 2 million.
Some people are trying to gofrom 2 million to five.
All of them had their differentissues, different problems, um,
but luckily I've seen justabout all of them.
So I've been doing this for along time and I and full

(02:47):
disclosure, I've never met Danand I can't believe I haven't,
not in this regard anyway.
So everything you're going tosee here today is is, is not,
nope, nope, I gave him somequestions on stuff that so that
way we can move a little quicker, but I haven't really dug into
anything and I I wouldn't say.
I don't know where this isgoing to go, but it could go in
a lot of different ways.
So I'm excited to see what kindof business he has and also for

(03:09):
you guys that are watching, tokind of see what that process
looks like.
I go through this process withsomebody at least somebody,
whether it's for free or whetherthey pay me and I'm happy to do
it.
I love John, I love FMS, I loveall you guys.
I do it about once a month, ifnot every day for some people,

(03:30):
so it's fun.
So let's see where we are.

All right.
So the idea then is I know yousent Dan over a bunch of
questions earlier to kind of geta feel for some things.
Where do you want to start with?
Sure, Should we have Dan givehim a little bit of introduction
of his business.

so everyone is kind of clear.
Talk about how long it's beenalong, anything you know from a
core standpoint.
A lot of times these hot seats,some people have a very
specific problem, like theydon't know how to figure out
something specifically.
I find that that can be, butthere are a lot of bones that
have to be put in place beforethat skeleton is able to walk.
So let's just let Dan introducethe company and where they are

(04:08):
and where he wants to be, andlet's see if we can get him
there.

Dan (04:19):
Yeah, first of all, I just want to say I'm here because I'm
well, because I'm anoverachiever.
I've been told that you shouldtry to be the brokest, dumbest
person in the room and I thinkI'm really overachieving today
here with a couple of reallyreally great guys.
Um, so I've been doing this for16 years and before starting

(04:41):
market taker, I was a marketmaker, trading on the, trading
on the floor, and then I startedteaching classes at CBOE, so I
learned how to teach options andI thought, well, I understand
how they work, I understand howto teach them.
I'm going to start my owneducation business and if you've
ever read a book called theE-Myth, you understand part of

(05:02):
the fallacy in that logic.
I was missing the understandinghow to run a business, how to
market, and I was a little bitnaive back then and it took me a
while to figure it out.
And now I get it and, like anyother business, I've grown and
had some successes, had somefailures and still have some

(05:23):
hurdles ahead of me, and I'mlooking forward to talking to
you know, some of the best mindsin the business here,
especially to hear what Bretthas to say as he grills me on
the hot seat.

All right.
Do you want to give us kind ofan overview of like?
What kind of staff do you have,um?
Do you want to give us kind ofan overview of like?
What kind of staff do you have,um?
What are your um?
Kind of like the number ofproducts you have?
Um, and kind of your generallike, maybe price points and
where, like, just generally,where you're acquiring right now
?

Dan (05:58):
We currently have a list of about 22,000 that are
marketable.
About 4,000 of them are what wecall unengaged marketable,
where they are getting veryminimal emails.

(06:21):
Our weekly newsletter, minimalemails, our weekly newsletter.
About 18,000 of them aremarketable, although some of
them are less engaged, so wesend them a few fewer emails.
As far as broadcasts in anygiven month I mean, we send out.
We were sending out about 800,some thousand, 850, 900,000

(06:51):
emails a month total.
We've pulled that back a littlebit as Keep encouraged us to
not send so many emails out bycharging us more for them.
So we made a little bit of achange to how we do business.
I used to send out a dailyvideo that was just nurture
content every day.
Now we do that all on socialmedia, which we weren't really

(07:16):
doing before, and then we justsend out two emails a week to
remind people to go to socialmedia.
What other data points wouldyou like me to go over?

That's good, john.
Do you mind if I use thislittle whiteboard here?
Is this okay for you?
Yeah, that's great.
Perfect, I just want to keeptrack of some stuff.
So you got 22,000 engaged.

Dan (07:43):
How many paid people do you have, dan Paid people?
I would guess a couple hundred.
I I don't have an exact figureon that we'll just call it 300.

How many products do you have?

Dan (07:54):
uh, so we have three what I would call high ticket products
, which is two degrees ofone-on-one coaching and a
mastermind, and then we havefive scanners.
And then we have threerecurring classes two are daily,
one's weekly, and then we haveabout three other classes.

What kind of trading do you do?
It's all option trading and weintentionally try and keep a
breadth of products frominvestors to traders from fairly
new traders to prettyexperienced traders.

Dan (08:42):
What are some price points here, buddy, Sure.
So as far as the high ticketstuff, the masterminds 15 grand,
and we only sell a couple fewof those a year.
The one make up more, but thelast couple of years, candidly,

(09:07):
we've just had a harder timeselling them.

It used to be about 50% of our business.
What?

Dan (09:17):
about the scanners.
So the scanners are about $250a month?

Yeah, and are they hosted on your website or do you
put them on TradingView or youput them like what are we
talking about here?

Dan (09:30):
Yeah, so these scanners, it's data provided from the CBOE
.
It's basically real-time alerts.
When a specific trade occurs,they get a notice that that
trade happened.

What is that called ?
I use the same thing at anothercompany Trade Alert.
Oh, they use Trade Ear.
They use Trade Ear for some oftheir CBOE stuff.
Oh, okay, so you have fivescanners and then you teach
classes during the week Yep,some daily, some weekly, okay
and you teach these on just howto trade basic introduction

(10:05):
stuff, flies, spreads, all thatstuff, or what are we talking
about?

Dan (10:10):
Yeah, I mean the daily group coaching is it's kind of
like what a lot of people call atrade room, and then the other
daily class is sort of more ontechnical fundamental analysis,
on technical fundamentalanalysis.
And then the weekly class whichI teach is more pure education
which, as you can probablyimagine, has a little less

(10:33):
demand, I think, than the otherones, because it's less actual.

What do you charge?

Dan (10:38):
for the trade room.
The trade room is $227 a month.
That's about the average.

Did your?
I'm going to poke funny fromtime to time.
Did you pull that number out ofa hat, or was it the lottery
number that night?

Dan (10:54):
Yeah, kind of it was $199 a month and then I wanted to go
to $ but when decided on 225,.
But use more of an odd number.
Okay, yeah, okay.

I, I deserve that's okay.
It's the numbersinconsequential.
I'm just I'm.
I haven't seen 227.
So unique numbers.
I kind of like it.
To be honest with you, itdoesn't bother me.
All right, so you got 22,000people on the list.
What are you doing for revenueevery month?

Dan (11:26):
So you know,000 people on the list.
What are you doing for revenueevery month?
So you know I've got a lot ofwhat we would call in the
business volatility there.
It's recently been anywherebetween about 55 grand a month
to 80 grand a month.

How much of that is renewals versus new sales.

Dan (11:47):
Oh, bobby, if you've got that handy I could take a look.
But I want to say renewals makeup about maybe 15,000 a month.

And then new sales are another.
You know, somewhere between 30to 50 K a month.
Yeah, how?

are you promoting.

You go on live and webinars.
You make an evergreens you'redoing straight to order form.
How are you promoting?

Dan (12:11):
Mainly live webinars.
Maybe once or twice a year wego straight to order form.
We do have some evergreenwebinars set up and we do run
them, but you know they getmaybe half the conversion rate,
so I tend to do them live more.

How many people normally show up?

Dan (12:31):
for the live webinars.
We'll get anywhere.
I mean anywhere between.
If it's a real small one, itcould be like 20 to maybe 65
actually showing up Right.

Any idea what kind of revenue.
How many times are you goinglive a month with the webinars?
Once a week?

Dan (12:49):
once a month, twice a month .
We basically what we do is wetry and sell two things a month
and with each thing we do aboutthree to five webinars, so they
just call it four webinars.
So basically eight saleswebinars a month and then
follow-ups to the replay andthen direct to the order form.

Okay, okay, good.
How do you guys start yourday-to-day?
So one of the things that andit seems in this business, my
experience is that there are abunch of different kinds of
businesses.
There are ones that grew upfrom small businesses into large

(13:34):
businesses that kept theirfoundational staff, meaning they
promoted from within.
So I mean, I've seen peoplethat were customer service reps
become CMOs.
I've seen people that werecustomer service reps become
CMOs.
It's one of the great thingsabout this industry is that
there is no sort ofpre-qualification for your skill
set, aside from the desire towork hard, listen and learn.
If you can write a little bit,that's great.

(13:55):
If you can market a little bit,that's great.
But for the most part you havea lot of people that when you
grow up inside the business,they know what to look for every
day.
It's kind of like being a nurseversus being a brain surgeon.
Like a nurse can tell you youknow how our patients are doing
just by looking at them.
Same thing with a guy that'sbeen there five or six years.

(14:15):
They kind of can feel whetheror not a promo is going to work
or how well the business isgoing.
And there are other companiesthat were once small and then
got large and they lost the corefoundation of the business.
I've seen this a lot of timestoo.
And then they end up bringingin people either I don't want to
say retreads, but people fromthe industry that might know a

(14:36):
little bit enough to bedangerous, or and this is some
people aren't going to like thisworst case scenario you bring
in an executive from outside theindustry and the executive from
outside the industry oftentimeslooks at KPIs that I don't know
why they look at them, andmotivation there is different.

(14:56):
Some companies want to beacquired.
Some companies bring in a CEOor a COO that is in an
acquisition mode.
Some people work for privateequity, some people they have to
keep the cash up, some peoplefocus on renewals and et cetera.
In my experience, theday-to-day run of the business

(15:18):
is almost like it's like playinga game every day.

Dan (15:26):
And how many people are on your staff?
There's two, three, four.
I mean there's four full fulltime, two part time and then
some other you know 1099s whohelp.
Okay, and what do they do?
So I mean, one of the full timeis me and that's running the

(15:47):
business and sweeping the floors, everything in between.

But you write and trade right, you are the product
.

Dan (15:54):
Yes, yeah, yes, I'm kind of the face product.
But John, who's our head coach,delivers a lot of the classes.
But John, who's our head coach,delivers a lot of the classes.
He delivers a lot of theone-on-one coaching and he
delivers the group coaching aswell.
Okay, what else you got?
We've got a full-time marketingperson, Bobby, who's our VP of

(16:20):
marketing.
That's totally full-time.
And then we've got Kathleen, mywife, who she's you know, she
does a little bit of everythingtoo.
She kind of keeps everything inorder and sometimes does really
granular stuff, like goingthrough and making sure all the
first names in our database arecapitalized.

(16:41):
You know de-duping email lists,but also handling some real
nuanced customer service, andyou know the occasional
chargeback and stuff.
And then we have another personwho is like a part-time
marketer, who has a lot oftactical skills, who was able to

(17:02):
execute on a lot of stuff.

So an iSoft, so an Infusionsoft expert.
Yeah, has a lot of tacticalskills who was able to execute
on a lot of stuff.
So an eye soft, so an infusionsoft expert yeah, does a little
design, does a little webinarset up, that kind of thing.

Dan (17:16):
Yep, exactly.
And then I I do have anotherpart-time coach, which is nice.
It leads to one of thequestions that you sent me that
I guess I can wait on or I canthrow it in here now.
But having a part-time coachhelps, because one of the
hurdles is that at this size ofa business, you know, when the

(17:37):
business is really growing anddoing well, it's like, oh crap,
how are we going to even take onany more one-on-one coaching
students, because I can't reallyhire a full-time person for
that, but nobody who actuallyhas that skill set wants to do
it part-time.
And then when business isslower which it's been a little
bit lately for me, then it'slike geez, you know, maybe we

(18:01):
should cut back on the part-timemarket or something.
It's hard to scale, gotcha Allright.

So day to day, do you guys meet every morning?

Dan (18:16):
Bobby and I who's in charge of our marketing meet once a
week formally, and then prettymuch almost every day.

You guys use Slack or Skype or Teams or something
weird.

Dan (18:30):
Yeah, we use Slack, but we'll just meet in GoToMeeting,
okay.

All right.
So back to the day-to-day right.
So the most successfulcompanies that I've been around
are the ones that do grind theday-to-day.
There are obviously people inyour business that are big idea,
people that go and work onsomething totally outside.
There are marketers that havelonger-term goals, and my old

(18:59):
boss, mike Ward, used to alwayssay that we're in the bestseller
business, and while I believethat and I definitely think he's
right I also know that a lotwas gained from working with a
COO or CMO on a daily basis toestablish what our baselines are
, basically taking our healthcheck every day.
First off, it does two thingsOne, it gets everybody talking

(19:22):
about what we did yesterday, andtwo, it allows you to.
One, it gets everybody talkingabout what we did yesterday, and
two, it allows you to setexpectations so that you
understand what the growth lookslike, and also what your
inventory looks like, and byinventory I mean like it or not.
The amount of email that yousend is your methodology for
making money, aside from that,with the webinars, et cetera,

(19:48):
but those are all wrapped intoone thing.

Dan (19:49):
You had mentioned a social media presence being the sort of
the center of some of youre-letter pushes.
What's the following there?
Our main focus is YouTube andwe get maybe 80 views per video
on YouTube.
How many?

followers do you have on YouTube?

Dan (20:04):
Well, we have 2,200.
I don't think that that's veryindicative, though, because I
had YouTube and I put somevideos up there like 15 years
ago and some people followed andprobably forgot that they're
following.
So I'm active.

Yeah, how about Twitter, which is usually the
other big one in our space?

Dan (20:28):
And similar thing.
There I've got about 14,000followers but I'm so inactive
that you know it's going to takea lot to re-nurture that Sure.

All right.
So the bad thing about socialmedia as being sort of the
growth core of the business is acouple of things.
One, you're at the mercy of analgo that you can't manipulate
or understand, yeah.
Two, you're engaged and thatalgorithm determines your
dispersion of messaging, andthat can be really frustrating

(21:00):
for people, especially whenthere's not a lot of rhyme or
reason to something gettingshown two thousand times and
something getting shown 20 times.
Um, you're also depending on athird party to increase your
response.
Now I will say that the nextgeneration of marketers um do

(21:20):
and I I don't disagree with themthat tick, tiktok, twitter and
YouTube are your big three there.
The successful businesses I seein that space are usually
one-man shops or two-man shopsthat are giving away a product
for free, which is totally fine.
They give away picks for free.
They have a free live video,free live trading every day, and
then they sell a class rightand they do $50,000 to $100,000

(21:43):
a month if they can build anaudience of half a mil to a
million people and get 1,000 to2,000 concurrence a day.
I see them all the time, and nooffense to my marketers who are
just starting out or haven'tbeen doing this for a long time,
but it's something that you caninvest in, but it's not

(22:04):
something that you can count onas a business plan when you're
trying to have a company.
If it was just you in yourbasement, it's a great hobby to
have, and when you find success,it's awesome.
So All right.
So you got two.
You're going twice a week withan e-letter.
Why aren't you going every day?
You're a trader, right?
You're an options trader, yeah.

Dan (22:33):
Okay, what kind of options do you trade?
You trade the spy vix, you knownq.
What do you do?
What's your yes?

is?
I mean, as far as what names uhstocks, etfs, indexes,
everything uh.
Do you trade your own money?

Dan (22:40):
yeah, okay, and you look at the market every day I do, um,
you know, but you know youmentioned kind of being a
grinder and that's a lot of whatI do.
I put in a lot of time and Iwould like to be able to be more
efficient and be able to focuson trading even more, because I

(23:01):
think I could well, first of allbecause I like it and second of
all because I think I couldcreate even better products.

Okay, why would you only go twice a week if you're
trading every day?

Dan (23:15):
Why would I?
Oh well, because we used tosend out I still make a daily
video, every day I do.
We used to put it just load itup to a spotlighter, post it
there and put it on our blog asa page and then send out an
email that sends people to theblog.
But you know, we got I imagineit's the same letter that

(23:37):
everybody got from Keep andFusion Soft that says you know,
well, we're going to startcharging you a bunch more money
if you keep sending out allthese emails.

All right.
So as a business we have torealize that A email is very
cheap and B, if we can'tovercome the cost of sending
email, then we're probably notin a very good spot.
So Infusionsoft is fine.
I mean, I've had ups and downswith Keep or Infusionsoft for
years.
I would recommend switchingESPs.

(24:09):
I mean Beehive is extremelyadvantageous right now,
extremely cost effective as youget larger.
There are people like Optipub,which I don't think you're
giving a list of 22,000.
Even if you went out every day,that's only about a half a
million to maybe a million mailsa month.
22,000.
If you, even if you went outevery day, that's only about a
half a million to maybe amillion mails a month.
But you have to find a way toget that messaging out.
What is the USP for thee-letter?
What is the unique sellingproposition?

Dan (24:34):
Why should I read it every day?
Well, I mean the, the video.
It's free nurture content andand it's it's an insight into
various aspects of trading.

You got to tighten that up, right.
So that's like me saying I gota clothes store.

We sell clothes, yes, they go on your body.

Yes, right.
So the first thing that we dousually is we try to define a
USP, a unique sellingproposition for the e-letter.
We make a promise, we deliverthe promise.
We tell them value, we tellthem this is the only way you're
going to get this and you'renot going to hear it anywhere
else.
We leverage our expertise, weleverage our point of view.
You even leverage yourpersonality and what it is that

(25:18):
you do as a trader the fact thatyou're trading real money and
the fact that you trade everyday.
There is no reason not to comeup, and I understand the cost
and efficiencies with keep, butit should not be a decision
maker.
You're not going to make moremoney by sending less mail.
It's not going to happen.
It's never going to happen.
And you're not going to makemore money by sending them to

(25:38):
social media instead of sendingthem to your website, where you
control the environment, etcetera.
So again, beehive is an optionhere.
You can easily pick up the listin Infusionsoft, move it over
to Beehive and start sendingimmediately.
Even if you just took theopeners over the last 30 days
and move them over there, Iwould still try to establish a

(26:00):
point of view and you can dothat really quickly.
You can easily send them anemail saying hey, we have
revamped what our commitment isto our audience.
We are going to start bringingyou content every day.
It could be any kind ofdeliverable, whether it's a
watch list, whether it's ourbiggest trade of the day from
yesterday, whether it's whatwe're watching, what sort of

(26:22):
strategy that we have right nowthat is most advantageous, what
our key levels are, what our keynumbers are, whatever it is and
you want to set the table forthe people that like you and you
want them to read you every day.
The way to do that for free,without giving away the milk and
the cow, is to give them thingsto look for, things to watch,

(26:43):
things that you see that theywon't see anywhere else,
especially on CNBC and FBN orthe Wall Street Journal or
Forbes or Bloomberg.
So in our industry, we are notjournalists, we are publishers
and authors, and we are alsocontrarian and we're also
independent, and we have to havea point of view on the market

(27:04):
and we have to have a stance onit.
What that means is that youhave to be able to come out and
say listen, I really don't likeinterest rates right now.
I think the FOMC is going tokeep rates exactly where they
are.
I think we're in for a nastyinflation, which means you're
going to see the tech sectorgetting beat up here over the

(27:24):
next six months.
These are the levels that I'mlooking at.
These are the ETFs that I havecircled as ones to dump, and you
can come at it from twodifferent angles both trading
and long-term investing.
A lot of traders don't feel verycomfortable talking about
macroeconomics.
That's not a good idea.
You don't have to be a macroeconomist to have a view on the
on the U S economy, the marketfed policy, et cetera.

(27:47):
You don't have to be that Um,and you also have to look at
yourself like you know 90, youwere.
You were at the SIBO, right.
That automatically puts you atthe tip of the sword of people
that understand options trading.
They, the people that read youand watch you every single day,
could only dream of even beingon the floor of the SIBO, even
though you can just walk rightin.
So you have to leverage thatwith the fact that you have

(28:11):
insights and understanding ofthe market that they will never
have, and you are a celebrity.
At the end of the day.
You're a trading celebrity,you're a financial celebrity,
but your opinion counts and youropinion is what they look for,
your, your insights, and wheredo you think you don't have to
be right and you don't have tobe wrong?
That doesn't matter nearly asmuch as being present, as being,

(28:32):
as being there, right, if, if I, if I have a nasty cough and
I'm coughing up blood and I callmy doctor, like he wouldn't say
like oh, I don't know what thatcould be, sorry, no, he knows
more than me, he knows more thanI do.

(28:53):
He's in a better position tohelp me than I am to help myself
.
Similar to these people thatare looking to make money from
the market, become bettertraders, become better investors
, retire, et cetera, take careof their money.
You know more than they do.
So you have to have a point ofview and you have to be
confident in it.
And even if you're wrong, itdoesn't matter.

(29:14):
Our audiences are very forgiving.
They're not stupid, likethey're not dumb people.
Same way that I wouldn't thinkthat because a doctor said you
might have tuberculosis, when inactuality all I had was a
scratch larynx or something.
But I'm not going to scold himfor it.
You told me.
I had my.
Only the worst customers dothat and the problem is that in
our business we tend to listento the loudest.

(29:35):
Worst customers the most.
The people that are like yousend me too much mail.
Can you stop selling me things?
You were wrong on something.
Let that person go.
You're never going to make themhappy.
I'm sure you know those peoplein that person.
Go.
You're never going to make themhappy.
I'm sure you know those peoplein your life anyway.
They're never going to be happy.

Hey, brett, if I can jump in real quick, just to
touch on, this is not a copycall, this is not a, but I
definitely recommend, dan, thatyou guys look at that.
In the Discord community weposted a link to a video systems
video that did really well,crushed it this year, and the
opening hits because the guyworked at the CBO, the CBO,
right, and he hits thatcredibility really well.

(30:10):
You actually taught optionsthere.
That's another layer on that,that the C.
Not only were you trading there, but you literally actually
were basically blessed by theCBO to trick, to teach this
professionally too, right,that's a huge thing.
And then the other thing I'dthrow in there on that idea of
like talking about the marketsis as traders.

(30:32):
A lot of times what I hear fromfolks is like, well, I don't
care what the economy is goingto do, I'm going to trade it
when it comes.
That's literally the point oflike the content.
Well, hey, if this happens, wedo this, we'll probably do this.
If this happens, we do this,we'll probably do this.
If this happens, kind ofprojecting, like the fact that,
like, maybe you're notpredicting the interest rates
are going to go one way oranother, but you know how you're

(30:52):
going to trade it, if it goesup or it goes down or if it
stays the same, and kind offorecasting that in the content.
That is something that likegives people confidence, it's
interesting, um, and keepsreading.
So there's a lot of reallyinteresting things you can do
this way, and you also.
My last point is I always lovedthe name of your business, right

(31:12):
, market taker.
You know, because you have themarket maker background, but
also that idea that, like you'regoing out into the market and
going to take the profitsTraders are.
Fundamentally, if you're anactive trader, you're
fundamentally somebody whothinks that you can get good
enough to kind of go out thereand make things happen versus
passive investing, and soleaning in on that idea in your
editorial is, I think, a reallygood choice for you.

(31:36):
But I'll pass it back to Brettnow.

No, that's all viable.
Even if you're market agnosticor macro agnostic, it doesn't
mean you don't have an opinionon it.
You just don't care.
You have to be able to talkabout it.
Your readers are not going toget financial information from
15 different guys.
They might get it from three.
Be one of the three, whichmeans when NVIDIA has earnings
and you don't talk about it, youlook dotty Like when there's a

(32:03):
Fed meeting and you don't talkabout the fact that they cut,
raised or kept rates.
The same, you look dotty Ifthere's a major market thing and
it doesn't happen every day, ithappens once or twice a month.
If you're not talking about theBitcoin ETF, even though you may
not trade it, at least say I'mnot trading it.
Here's why, here's trading it,here's why, here's why we don't
trade.
Like, first off, there's nooption chains on the Bitcoin ETF

(32:25):
yet.
But you know, if you look at itand say you have to be able to
comment on what's happening andthen just apply it to trading if
it, if it doesn't, if you'renot going to trade it or it
doesn't factor into your trading, that's fine.
But say that have a point ofview right, um, it's, it's, it's
really important your customers.

(32:47):
Have you ever had a liveconference or interacted with
your guys?
Your subscriber base?
Oh, yeah, often.
How many of them take pictureswith you?
How many of them do you feellike you're a little bit of a
celebrity around?
Yeah, all of them.

Dan (33:00):
Right.

Well, that's, that's who you are and you have
to embrace that.
And by embracing I mean they'regoing to want to know things
from you that you may think toyourself, well, that's kind of
boring or stupid or doesn't haveanything to do with it.
Not to them, not to them, it'snot.
It's like imagine if you couldwatch, if you can mic up a head
coach for a baseball game, right, the whole, the whole game, the

(33:23):
baseball coach sitting theregoing where the hell does
anybody want?
to hear.
Sit and listen to me talk.
Everybody wants to listen toyou talk.
Everybody watching that gamewants to hear what you're saying
during the game, but to himit's benign and monotonous and
boring, but to you it is manofrom heaven.
If you are a baseball fan,similar to your take on the fed,
the markets, etc.
So, um, that helps you createmore content.

(33:48):
It also helps you becomepertinent and relevant when
things happen in the market.
Don't take days off when shithappens.
Market drops 3%.
You're talking about it.
Nvidia splits you're talkingabout it, even if you're like
listen, nvidia split tomorrow.
It's not a tradable asset forme right now.
I don't see any patterns herethat make any of these premiums
look good post-split.
I can tell you that.
Post-split, I can tell you thatpost-split, stocks usually go

(34:08):
down in price for two or threedays before they come back up
because the short interest bythe major banks and the major
hedge funds.
They're taking into account thefact that people are going to
want to buy this and get into itand they're going to suppress
the price whatever.
You know that right.
You have an opinion on that.
Don't be afraid to share that.
And to the person on the otherend of the line they're going.
That's my guy Because, like itor not, a lot of what we go

(34:32):
through is golf stories.
You are, you know, oddly enough,porter Stansbury.
I was at a school function onetime and I overheard people
talking about Porter's picks on,you know, obama's third term or
whatever it was, whatever hisweird thing was.
And I like overheard them and Icouldn't believe that these

(34:54):
guys I mean, I mean, we're soclose to it that it's a hard
time for us to sort ofunderstand but they were really
proud of themselves for learningthis and sharing it, and they
were very, very confident in theoutcome of what porter was
saying.
But they were, but they likedit.
Um, similar to what it is thatyou can like.
Imagine if you could hear thatcoach in the dugout say man

(35:14):
Rodriguez is just terrible, Ican't play this guy anymore.
Like you just learned that andnow you know that and nobody
else does, except for the otherpeople that were watching.
But point is, is that that'ssolidified, not only his opinion
, but now you gave your opinionto someone else and it likely
became their point of view.
That is the religion that you'reafter, that is the ethos that

(35:36):
you're after is that your pointof view, your usp, becomes
somebody else's point of viewand usb.
Look what's happening right nowin politics the dogma
associated there, the same thing, the financial markets, same
thing.
With religion.
It doesn't matter.
The point is is that if they'reyour people, you have to imbibe
them with your stance on themarket so that they don't have

(35:57):
to go somewhere else to formtheir own opinion, because
they're going to form it.
Um, you know, do you watchsports?
Um, occasionally, okay, um,what do you have a strong
opinion on?
well, like movies, books, art,oh, yeah, uh, yeah uh movies
music right now you may go watcha movie and like maybe you

(36:21):
watch dune right, and you'relike this is great.
But I guarantee you, as amatter of fact, I'll bet you,
that at some point you read ananalysis or an article about two
or three other people and youfound something more insightful
that they would say because, bythe way, they're probably a
little more insightful than youand you took that home into your
own ethos and you said oh man,they are going to be in trouble

(36:41):
when Dune 3 has to drop becausethat book was never finished.
So I don't know where they'regoing to end this freaking
trilogy, that kind of thing,because you learn that somewhere
else you do the same thing forfinance.
So, first step get back outthere more, figure out the keep
situation.
I don't know the economics ofwhat you're facing would keep,
but I can tell you that beehiveis extremely economical.
You can move the names overthere.

(37:01):
I would set up an account, Iwould put five or ten thousand
people into there and I wouldstart mailing them on a daily
basis with your thoughts.
If they're videos, that's fine.
But before you do that, beforeyou make the video, write down
why you're unique on, just as awelcome letter.
Think about, listen, I'm DanPassarelli.
Here's what I do every day.
Here's what you're going to getevery day and here is why this

(37:24):
is the only place you're goingto get it.
If you can answer those threequestions, you're off and
running from a value standpoint.
Don't be passive.
Don't be a journalist.
Nobody pays for the afternoonnews guy to give me the scores
on Major League Baseball.
I can get those anywhere.
What people pay for is well,sadly at this point, gambling

(37:45):
picks.
But what gets him an audienceis his insight into the local
sports team.
If it's a local guy or for anational guy, they go to a
national guy and be like I'm inthe locker room right now for
the Mets and I can tell you thatthey're going to make three
trades over the next 24 hours.
That's value.
You can do that with the market.
That's why I watch that show.
That's why I go there for myinformation, Similar to the

(38:06):
markets.
So take that down.
Stop going out once a week ortwice a week.
Stop pushing the social.
Post the blog on your website.
You can still push them tosocial if you really want.
All I want is a click.
All I want is messaging andplease don't go out.
Do you only go out likeTuesdays and Thursdays too, or
like Tuesdays and Fridays?

Dan (38:35):
and Fridays.
Mondays and Fridays is when wesend the email, but we do frame
the YouTube video onto ourwebsite and that is where we
send them to.

Okay, that's fine.
All I want right now is theclick, the modality of the click
, the monetization of the click.
That comes after.
The first step in anything isestablishing the operations.
Can I do this?
Do I have a USP?
That's step one.
Can somebody send it for me?
Good, that's still in step onein operations.
Number two do people like it?
Do I get better open rates,better clicks, no spam

(39:02):
complaints?
Am I fine here?
Once you pass level two, thenyou get into the monetization of
it.
How do I leverage this formoney?
Right, and do steps one and twofirst and you only have one
letter, right?

Dan (39:19):
Yeah, one free.
It's a free weekly newsletter.
Yeah, okay.

One thing real quick while you're talking about
sending an email to the blogjust real quick.
You also don't have any um.
You put.
You embed the video on the blogbut there's other than a
sidebar ad.
There isn't anything in therethat they could link to to buy
underneath like you have.
You're sending people to a page.
There's nothing wrong throwingan ad underneath content or a
text.
You know writing something inthere that links to something

(39:49):
that they could buy content ortext.
You know writing something inthere that links to something
that they could buy is.
They're act, they're activelyengaging with you right at that
moment.

Is the only way that they can buy digitally as
well.
Do you have a telesales guy ora customer service guy that they
can call?

Dan (40:02):
Yes, I mean the number is really only available during
live webinars.
It's not like on our website oranything.

Companies your size usually do 50% of their revenue
over the phone.
Wow, that's the easiest moneyyou're ever going to make,
especially for selling $10,000to $15,000 products.
You cannot sell those.
I wouldn't say cannot.
It is much more difficult tosell a $10,000 to $15,000
product via an order form inKeaton.
That is a tough sell.
First off, you're not able towork with the customer on

(40:32):
payment plans.
You're not able to cut them adeal that you don't know their
first name.
Sometimes, especially in acompany your size I mean, jeff
Bishop used to get on the phonefor Raging Bull.
If you want to buy a $10,000,$15,000 package, he's like give

(40:56):
me the phone, I'll close thatthat you need to get on the
phone with somebody, but thephone needs to be avid and what
it is that you do.
Because I I'm going to take astab here and I haven't seen the
marketing materials, but Iwould imagine they're not as
polished as some of the otherones you've seen in the industry
.
You know, with 10 page orderforms, 60 minute vsls, with
high-end, the ability to conveya message extremely clearly,
repetitively, over and overagain, with some sort of
celebrity voice track record, etcetera, all those things that
when you see those promos yousay, man, that's a really good

(41:19):
promo For smaller businesses.
They don't have the ability tomake those when they're only
doing 50 to 100,000 a month.
First off, the guy that wroteit ain't cheap.
Second off, the production timeto go into it takes months.
So the way to get around thatis live webinars, which is what
most people are doing.
But also the interaction of atelesales portion of your

(41:43):
business is imperative.
It's important you have to havepeople accessible on the phone.
That's how you're going toclose about half your sales.
That number that is not likeanecdotal, that is even in a
$100 million business you willstill do $30 million a year in
telesales, you'll still do 30%.

How do you normally tell somebody who's
kind of at the stage that Dan isat to start that process?
Like what are you going to do?
Are you going to get a part?
Dan is at to start that process.
Like what do you?
What are you going to do?
You're going to get umpart-time person to start, you
know, work with the externalgroup that does telesales.
Like what's the um?

There are.
There are options, right.
So there are external groupswhich will take a 20 to 30%
commission, which becomes alittle tough um at scale, but
it's really nice when you getstarted.
Um, you, um at scale, but it'sreally nice when you get started
.
Um, you can hire somebodyinternally, but, given that you
have 300 buyers and a 22 000person list, it would be a
part-time person.
They might get 20 calls a week.
They might get 15 calls a week.
They should be closing 50 ofthose calls, right so?

(42:41):
And it should be worth about100 to 200 dollars per call as a
matter of fact, the less callsis probably worth closer to
three to four hundred dollarscall.
So, or you can do it yourself,to be honest with you, and
sometimes doing it yourself, andyou may have a VP of marketing
and you may have your wife, andyou may have another coach and
John, and they may say that,well, I'm not a sales guy, dude,

(43:04):
it's a five person company.
We're all sales guys.

Dan (43:06):
Yeah.

Right.
If you're running a small storewhere you sell designer jeans
that you made, the guy whodesigned the jeans is probably
working the counter and the guythat's working the counter is
probably making the sale.
And that's the way you go.
When you're a small business,there aren't a lot of shortcuts.
First off, you should do itanyway.
Any new person that I hire at acompany, they spend their first

(43:29):
week in customer service.
I don't give a shit what theydo.
There's nobody in this businessthat comes with that kind of
pedigree that they don't havethe right to work customer
service for a week.
And if you do, you shouldn'thire that person anyway, because
that person needs to know theproducts, they need to
understand the sentiment of thecustomer and they also need to
start asking some questions likeholy shit, like what is this
product, like what is this?
Where do I find this?

(43:49):
What is that?
What's our product?
Fulfillment look like that'simportant.
So when you're still a smallbusiness, everybody works
customer service and everybodyshould be clamoring for
customers to write in on aregular basis.
They should be writing in withquestions, they should be
writing in with suggestions.
You should open those lines up.
When you're four or five people, you can't have a delineation

(44:10):
of responsibility.
It has to be a group.
When you get larger, the greatnews is when you get larger, the
first person you hire is atelesales guy.
And guess what?

Everybody there can train them Right.
Everybody there can.
I was going to say you guysshould also check out in the
resource library and the FMS provideo page.
We have a video with JohnCurtis about starting to build a
phone team.
You know, internally that has alot of the stuff that we talk
about here and how you kind ofstart to where you can get to
more help.

All right.
So let's do some quick mathhere.
22,000 emails should get and Idon't we're going to get to the
tough part next, but should getabout a 4% response rate If
you're sending out two times aweek.
Let's just call it a nice 1,000clicks per email.
Let's just be nice about it IfI can just move this freaking
thingamajigger here.

Dan (45:01):
Move.

Ah well, I'll just pop this down so I can do some
basic math.
Sorry if this is screwing upthe presentation, john, I just
wanted to get some notes.
All right, 22 at 4% equals1,000 clicks, which, if you're
looking at this every day,should be worth between $2 to $5
a click.
So let's just call it andthat's times seven.

(45:24):
So you're looking at let's justcall it 14,000 a week from
email doesn't count renewrenewals.
So that would be my target goaland that's pretty conservative.
So that's what?
60?
What man?
Bad math.
56 000 a month.
56 000 a month on email volumealone.

(45:44):
Then you have sounds like eightwebinars, 50 in attendance.
Let's be conservative and callit 50 dollars per attendee.
That's 400.
That's 400, that's another 20k.
Right, that's where you shouldlive.

(46:05):
That's, given your, given yourinventory right now 22 000.
I'm not even counting the 300buyers or whatever it is you
have, because they need a listtoo if they buy a product.
If you're still thinking thatyou fulfill them from the free
email, or that you fulfill themfrom a class, or you fulfill
them from some sort of like verybenign, uh, transactional kind

(46:27):
of email, you're thinking aboutit wrong.
They've just moved into adifferent planet, but they
haven't lost the desire tocontinue to communicate in that
way.
So one of the biggest mistakespeople make in this industry is
once they move somebody from afree person to a paid person, or
once they acquire a paid person, they start talking to them
differently.
They start talking to them in adifferent way, but not in a

(46:49):
good way.
There's a good way to do it,and then there's a bad way to
them differently.
Like they start talking to themin a different way now, but not
in a good way.
There's a good way to do it,and then there's a bad way to do
it.
The bad way is transactional.
Thanks for buying my product.
It's Tuesdays and Thursdays atone o'clock.
Here's your calendar.
Have a nice fucking life.
That's not good.
They just moved into anotherworld so, and those people are
worth a hundred times more thanthe 22,000 people are worth.
So the fact that we don't talkto them more over-fulfill them,

(47:13):
give them different insights,especially into the product.
I know it's a pain in the ass,I get it, but we are in the
relationship business at the endof the day, and if you just
made a buyer and you thinkputting them on an email that
sends them out a trade alerttwice a week with two lines of
copy that says trade NFX at 220option spread.
That's not good.
That's what people do.

(47:35):
That's looney tunes, because intheir mind some marketer says
well, I mean, they're alreadygetting the free e-letter.
They stopped caring about thefree e-letter for the most part.
They have moved on to anotherplanet.
They are breathing differentair.
They are now in a paid productand if you under-deliver,
under-fulfill or stop thatrelationship through the paid
product, you are not maximizingthe value of that customer.

(47:58):
Also, that customer is not ashappy anymore.
I hear it all the time atconferences and, by the way,
conferences are really good forgetting actual feedback from
people.
That's why customer service andtelesales is also very good,
because they'll tell you what aphone conversation looks like.
You can listen to people.
I'm not saying you have to dowhat they say, because they

(48:18):
don't.
Most people.
What is it?
Get that aside.
But if you have paid people at300, look at your paid mail.
How much paid mail do you sendthem every day?
Because it's going to be wortha hundred times more than the
free mail that you're sending to22,000 people.
It and, by the way, if youthink because there's 300 people
, whatever, on the 22 000 listand they're already getting that
information anyway.
Stop thinking like that.
They likely interact with aproduct in silos.

(48:39):
So if they bought your class orthey bought the, or they bought
the scanner and you're notsending them fulfillment, all
you did was send them a receiptand access that customer now is
probably checked out to a degree.
They have moved on.
You have to communicate to themthe same way that you did with
the free letter.
What I would recommend there iswithin Keep or on Beehive,

(49:00):
wherever you want to go.
You can go to Aweber, you cango to Constant Contact.
I mean, I use Beehive.
So that's what I wouldrecommend, but I'm not saying
there's not other options.
You take those 300 buyers,however many there are, and you
start what we call a FOMO listor buyers list.
But even before you do that,you look at if 75 people have
bought the classes, how muchemail do you send Once a month,

(49:22):
once a week?
Does it just say join the classtoday?
Is that all it says?
Then they go to the class howmany people are on there and how
many people attend?
These things are imperative andit's one of the most overlooked
process of what we do.
We spend 90% of our timetalking about sales and only 10%
of our time talking about theproduct.
And yet we all know that thevalue of the future sales come

(49:50):
from the quality of the fuckingproduct.
Yet we stop talking to peopleabout it because we think that
they bought something, so nowthey're happy.
They're likely happier, butthey're probably not still
fulfilled, or else they wouldn'thave bought.
Okay, does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we've got the USP.
You got to understand yourbuyers.
See how much mail you'resending them.
Your baseline revenue right nowshould be about 70.

(50:13):
This is conservative too.
I mean this is taken intoaccount.
$1 to $2 a click and $50 perattendee In a good marketing
cycle.
For a list your size, this isusually $5 a click and about
$100 to $150 on attendee and agood marketing cycle.

Dan (50:37):
Any idea what your response rates are on the 22,000 on the
email list?
Yeah, I mean, my open rates arelike around 29%.

Okay, so you're being throttled by.
Infusionsoft, then yeah, yeah,which I mean anything below 40%,
anything, anything.
Okay, we'll get to the next.
So what are the click-throughrates on it?

Dan (50:55):
uh the well.
The click-to-open rate is about, on average, 11 and a half
percent is that okay?

click to open.
So if I send out 20,000 mailsat 11%, I'm getting 2,000 clicks
, 2,500 clicks or am I getting250 clicks?
How many clicks are you gettingoff the 22,000?

Dan (51:19):
Yeah, okay.
So if you get, if you send outwell, let's say you send out a
thousand emails you're going toget, say, 11% of that, which is
what?
110.
So we're looking at 250 clicksor something.

No, 11% of 22 grand is going to be 2,500.
Oh right, yeah, sorry, yeah, yesso even my number here is
extremely conservative, at 4%,which is where most people live.
So if you literally are doing2,500 clicks for 22,000, that's
really good.
That's good.
If I saw that, I'd be like whyaren't we sending more fucking

(52:01):
mail and don't just send crappymail Again?
Establish the USP.
Give them value, Give them yourinsights.
Don't be afraid to boast aboutsome of the picks that you've
made or some of the things thatyou've taught in a class or do
customer profiles.
Talk to yourself.
Talk about your own privatelife if you feel comfortable
about it.
Your family, your friends, whatyou do on the weekend, how you

(52:22):
got interested, your time at theSIBO All those things play.
I say it all the time.
Bill Bonner has sold a billiondollars worth of stuff and the
guy hasn't recommended a stockin 20 years.
But people like Bill becausethey know he's got a church in
Ireland and he's got a winery inArgentina and he hates the
government Great.

(52:43):
But every time you recommendsomebody else's something, they
already know that it comes froma guy that they like.
So don't be afraid to namestizeyourself.

Dan (52:50):
Yeah, yeah, now mind if I jump in with a question or two.
Um, you know, this year is alittle bit lighter than last
year.
I I was a little bit more up inthat area last year, but like a
difference is I've we almostmake nothing from Emails.

(53:16):
We make money from emailspromoting a webinar and webinar.
So just looking at your figureshere, you know that first, 56k
on email volume, does I mean?
Does that include?
Does that include email sendingpeople to webinars?
Because that one's a missinglink right there.

It shouldn't be right.
That's why you need telesales,that's why you need an
amortization of product and youalso need multiple lists.
So when you have one list goingout twice a week, you can
promote one thing, which meansyou're pretty much dark until
the webinar launches.
You're making $0 unless theycome from renewals.
That's not good.
There are other products youhave that still fit into the

(53:58):
lifeline of what it is thatwe're doing in the market.
Also, having multiple listsallow like you can easily take
those 22,000 people and startanother list with another
specificity.
It doesn't have to becomplicated.
It could be.
Let me tell you about the bestoptions trade of the day or the
best options set up of the week.

(54:19):
But if you want to know thesecret to Agora, aside from
having really great marketingand a laissez-faire attitude to
how they run their businessesmeaning they let the marketers
kind of do their thing without alot of oversight they also
shared their files with eachother.
Like I started at Money MapPress, we didn't have any money,
but zero dollars zero.
You know where our first100,000 people came from the

(54:41):
Oxford Club.
You know what we became in likesix months we went from zero to
$100,000 a month because theygave us 100,000 names.
Now I'm not saying you have todo that.
What I'm saying is you got22,000 people here in one USP.
Push yourself by the end of thesummer to make a second USP.
It can be a watch list.
It could be five things to knowbefore the market opens.

(55:03):
It could be five things to knowwith the market closed.
It could be whatever.
But the problem that you'refacing right now is, yes, we
don't make any money unless wedo the webinar.
My contention there is then youdon't have enough email
bandwidth to be able to supporta company that's going to make
revenue every day.
That's why meeting every dayand saying how much money we
make yesterday and if theconversation continues to be

(55:23):
well, we've made zero becausewe're promoting a webinar fix
that problem.

To be clear right now within the next few months
he should have minimum threeseparate kind of e-letters,
right, he should have the one hehas now, some new one that
people can be opted into ormoved into that they can with a
different USP, and then acustomer one for all the buyers,
correct?

That's a minimum right.
As soon as you figure out thatformula, you're going to find
yourself having, instead of2,000 clicks a day, 3,000 clicks
a day and you're going to havethe bandwidth to promote the
scanners, promote the class,promote the one-on-one.
Throw in a telesales number andstop depending on a webinar
every 14 days to make all ofyour income.

(56:08):
That is stressful and I know alot of people do that.
They put all their eggs in onebasket.
They don't dynamicize theirvolume and it would be like me
having a ramen store and all Isell is ramen.
You never see that.
You wouldn't see that.
I got soda, I got soft drinks,I got spices, I got whatever
else chopsticks, whatever elseyou want but I wouldn't just

(56:31):
sell ramen, right, no matter howfucking good it is.
Even the greatest stores in theworld like I'm looking at a
shake shack across the streetand I'm sorry to keep dropping
the up bomb for my my bad johnjohn can beat them out actually
be my challenge yeah yeah,nobody.

Nobody dropped something on this show right.

So like I'm looking at a shake shack across the
street, shake shack is known forsmash burgers.
That's what they're known for,but that's not how they make
their money.
They make their money becauseit's 17 cents to fill up a
Coca-Cola and they charge you$3.95.
The smash burger is $7.95.
Probably cost them about fiveand a quarter to make is that

(57:07):
you have to create moreinventory here to give customers
more options.
Now, the down part of that isyour time.
How much time do I have to pumpthese things out?
It does not have to beShakespeare, it just has to be
on point.

And this is where like this is actually where a
lot of the AI tools really helpyou, because you can get there
on.
You can do a video where you'regoing to tell it.
But, like, think about thisLike, how many stories do you
have of people and traders whoblew up or did whatever when you
worked right?
Like you could just get on avideo, have one of your, your,
your staff interview?
You just go through thosethings.
They can take that, transcribeit.

(57:39):
You have the videos.
You can get turned into shortsthat you can post and, all of a
sudden, you have a lot morecontent.
Um, you can do a lot of stuffthese days with production to
speed up how much content youcreate.
It's not like you have to, likeyou know, stop everything else
you're doing to do it, but youshould be commenting on the
market.
Yeah, even if it's short, butpersonal and short.

If you did that by the end of August right now you
would probably double yourbusiness.

Dan (58:12):
All right, so you have a different USP, but that's to the
same leads.
I mean basically what you wouldhave people have the ability to
.
Well, I'm trying to think abouthow to actually execute this.

Well, it would be difficult in Infusionsoft.
It would be a lot easier inBeehive.
You can send them opt-outs.
I don't think that's, and youcan check with the legal team
here at the FMS Pro.
But improving theirsubscription to the free
e-letter by offering them morevalue and providing them an
opt-out two or three times isalways going to be advantageous
to doing an opt-in.

(58:51):
An opt-in is going to get youabout 5% of your file.
An opt-out is going to get youabout 95% of your file moved
over.
So you take the 22,000 people,you send out a few emails and
say listen, your subscriptionhas been upgraded, we are
launching a new letter here.
If you don't want it, feel freeto click here.
I won't send it to you, but letme tell you what it does Every
day.
I'm going to give you the fivelevels that I think are most
important across all the ETFs.

(59:12):
Whatever it is, it's just adifferent USP and it can be
simple.
It doesn't have to beShakespeare, you don't have to
write 2000 words.
You just need to provide a verypointed level of value that
somebody would want to see Allright, yeah, that makes sense
that makes sense.
If you did those things, youwould double your business by
the end of August, just becauseyou've increased your volume,

(59:37):
and it's going to allow yourmarketer, bobby, to be able to
say oh shit, I have all this newinventory.
I don't have to promote thewebinar twice.
I can talk about the scanners,I can talk about the class.
I can push to telesales.
If push to telesales.
If somebody wants to doone-on-one like training, if
somebody wants one of thesethings, it gives you bandwidth.
You basically just took a storeand instead of having one

(59:57):
product, you just put a secondproduct on the shelf.
You're going to.
It might not sell as much, butyou're going to sell more.
You're not going to sell less.
That's that's not going tohappen.
So that's a good start.
So let's have the hardconversation, because what
that'll do is that'll get youburning the furniture, which is
fine.

Dan (01:00:22):
no-transcript yes, um, and I mean this may be part of the
reason why things slow down alittle bit this year, but you
know it's ends up being achicken and the egg.
Uh, last year I spent aboutfive grand a month almost every

(01:00:42):
month.
Uh, maybe, probably, probably,10 months a year on.
You know, just paid traffic.
You know I'd use Darwin orwhoever else, and I did slow
down a little bit on that thisyear because the end of last

(01:01:04):
year ended up being, you know, Idon't know, things sort of
slowed down a little bit at theend of last year and the
beginning of this year.

Bret Holmes (01:01:12):
All right, well, if you don't feed it it's going to
die.
Yeah, it's not going to getbetter.
So, and that's what smallbusinesses do a lot of times
like, well, our spend's notworking.
Figure it figured out, becausenothing is more important than
that spend.
If you aren't spending 10 ofyour gross revenue a month in ad
spend as a minimum, then you'renot taking any shots.

(01:01:34):
And if you don't take shots,you're going to get smaller.
Our friends at MarketWise, who Ilove, who I respect dearly,
when they cut out theiradvertising in August last year.
They're a public company.
You can read their quarterlyreports.
Look what it does to them.
They shrink.
Now the bottom line looksbetter for a very short matter
of time, but they're going tofeel that pain really quick.

(01:01:56):
It's one of the decisions that,one of the reasons that I love
working for Mike and I loveworking for Jeff Bishop and
Morgan and I like working withthese guys and like even Zach
down at StocksToTrade, is thatthey will never cut the spend
unless we are in, because theyknow as soon as they cut the
spend, the company is going toshrink and things are going to
get much harder.
Instead of cutting the spend,focus on the spend, find new

(01:02:20):
people.
I hate to say this to myfriends out there selling leads
right now or selling traffic,but it's not 2020.
People aren't lined up chompingat the bit to buy their shit.
They will work with you.
They know that their inventoryisn't worth anything unless
there's somebody there to buy it.
So, while you may not be a bigfish at only five or $10,000 a

(01:02:42):
month, that doesn't mean theydon't want your business.
That doesn't mean they don'thave room to feed your business.
But if you think that that is apassive part of what it is that
you do and something that youcan shut down, it's not.
It's the first thing you meetabout on Monday morning how much
money we spent last week, howmany leads we bring in.
What do they look like?
They look bad.
Okay, stop.
What are we sending them?
What do we have for them?
Let's make this better.

(01:03:02):
Let's focus on this.
You've got to make that workand it has to be a part of the
business that cannot besecondary or worse.
Third, if you aren't spendingmoney and you're in an
established business meaningyou're not just getting your
feet set up under you and I canall the operation stuff set up
as soon as you stop spendingmoney.
You can count the days on youron your hand until you start

(01:03:23):
shrinking.
Now, what I've given you hereis, if you do start spending
money, you will make that moneyback quicker.
So all these things that I'vemade they're not for, or some of
these ideas that I've given you, these aren't just for cheap
thrills.
What these are are bones thatwhen you do start buying money

(01:03:46):
and you pour those names overeverything that you have, you
will see value and they willmature faster and earn faster.
Okay, what's your, what's yourwebinar process?
You say.
I mean, it sounds like we'vegot about five or six products,
seven products, and you do twodifferent ones a month.
When you and who do you put thewebinar together with?

(01:04:06):
Is it you and Bobby?
Yeah, okay, and how does thatconversation start?

Dan (01:04:13):
Well, I mean, if it's a new product, it's.
You know, it's one thing.
If it's a product that we'vehad already, I mean.
I mean, first of all, I'll lookback at the slides and I'll see
if I need to freshen up anyexamples, because I find it
tends to convert better if theexamples are not a year old.
Yes, yeah, so you know.

(01:04:35):
If it's an existing product,it's pretty easy.

Yeah it's easy for you, but in my like, I'm going
to be a turd here.
It's lazy.
Do not run the same webinar.
You have got to position itlike it's brand new every week
or every time you run it.
That means not only do theexamples have to be brightened
up, obviously, but you have tohave a forward-looking
perspective on why the serviceis freaking important right now.

(01:05:02):
It's one of the things thatpeople that are smaller get
extremely wrong, and this mightbe you.
It might not be you, buttraders think, just because
they're good traders, thatthat's enough.
It's not.
It's not enough.
You have got to be makesomebody take action to buy that
product right now, or elsethey're either going to lose
money or they're going to losethe opportunity to make money.
If that is not the cornerstoneof every promo that you put out,

(01:05:26):
that promo process needs to bechanged.
So, instead of starting withall right, what are we going to
run?
Some people do it on trackrecord.
Some people, at least themildly smart ones go what's our
best track record right now?
Let's run that one, becausethat gives us the ability to
stand on past results or mostrecent results.
That is some JV level marketing.

(01:05:47):
It's great, but it ain't good.
It ain't great.
I'll tell you that much Varsitylevel marketing is.
What do I think is going tohappen in the market and what
about this product is going tomake them solve that by making
them more money.
That's going to bleed into that.
What can I look forward to overthe next week, month, year, no
matter what, that if I don'tsell this thing to them now,

(01:06:07):
they're going to miss out.
I'm sure you see other people'spromos out there, like the Al
Tucher promo or Porter's promo.
None of them talk about theirpast results None Ever.
And if they do, it's like fifthor sixth thing they talk about.
What they talk about is if youdon't start doing this right now
, you are going to miss the nextbig thing and that's where your

(01:06:31):
promo has to start.
I'm not saying that's whatevery promo has to be, but
that's where it's got to start.
No-transcript.

(01:06:57):
Some of the other guys is thatwith a live webinar, I can
literally on the day the FOMCallowances be like yep, they
kept rates the same.
Here's what that means for themarket over the next week.
And here is the strategy orservice or the scanner or the
class that we think is mostpertinent to this that you're
going to have to take now inorder to take advantage of this
short term, long term, whateverit is you got to, you have to be
a problem solution in the, inthe real time.

(01:07:19):
Don't think that anybody wantsyour product because they,
because you're a good trader.
They want your product becausethey're going to make money.
If, if you think about how, like, gambling services work and I
hate to do this because I don'tlike comparing our industry to
gambling, but it is not that faroff as a matter of fact, a lot
of the artificial inflation thatwe saw during 2020, during

(01:07:40):
COVID, or was that 20?
Yeah, it was 20.
I mean, you can guess why.
That was because dudes didn'thave anything to gamble on and
day-by-day trader went to themarket and started trading
option chains because he neededthis fix.
I hate to say that, but peoplelike action, right.
And as soon as sports came back, our sales everybody's sales in

(01:08:00):
September went way down.
But that summer everybody waslike I don't know what's
happening.
But this is great.
And for the first time ever,what also happened?
Option chains were being tradedmore than stocks.
For the first time ever,19-year-old kids were getting on
there doing straight naked puts, trying to make a hundred bucks
on a $10,000 YOLO marginaccount.
That's nuts God bless them, butstill nuts.

(01:08:23):
Anyway, the point is like if Itold you that, hey, by the way,
football season's coming up, I'ma really great football better.
Uh, as a matter of fact,there's over 200 games coming up
.
In last year I was 171 and 96.
Now that will definitely beatyour man.
If you're really interested,give me a call right now.
We can get started.
That's one way to pitch it.
The other way is Monday nightthe bears take on the saints.

(01:08:45):
I have inside information thatthe fact that their left guard,
their left tackle, cannot pullone of them's got a weak
hamstring and they love runningthe ball to the left.
They're not going to be able todo that.
The bears know that.
They're going to stack.
They're going to stack anoutside linebacker over there.
They're going to shut it down.
I love one play on this gamespecifically and you need to
call me right now to get thatinformation.
Which one of those sells better?
Yeah, number two, you got to bespecific and you got to be

(01:09:10):
forward thinking in the realtime.
Yep, you have enough productsto be able to do that.
Some of the other things youcan do to up sales obviously
bundle the classes, launch newclasses.
Classes are great because theycan expire or they can go into a
vault.
So if you're doing them, livegood for you.
But don't be afraid to put themon wax and make 10 or 20 of
them that you can sell at anytime, so you can get out of your

(01:09:31):
webinar cycle and actually goto the Bahamas with your wife,
so you don't have to do awebinar every two weeks.
Figure out something that cansell out of the gate.
So you got.
I mean, I like the fact thatyou're making 50,000 a month on
a 22,000 person list.
300 buyers is light.
You got to get back to buyingsome leads right.

(01:09:53):
Again, not to disparage our guys, they are good media buyers,
they are great media buyers andthey are and a lot of them I
posted on LinkedIn the ones thatI think are probably the most
honest or the easiest to workwith, and a lot of them are in
John's FMS pro.
Like they will work with you.
They want your business.
I don't like to say they'restruggling, but in the financial

(01:10:14):
publishing space it's notexactly high-tied like it was
four years ago.
So while they may have, as acompany, pivoted to health or
pivoted to IR or some otherthings, that's fine, but I also
know that their leads can bebought, probably a little
cheaper.
They're probably listening tosmaller guys right now with
smaller spends, um, and they'reprobably willing to work with
you.
If you don't have success ontrying to give you some leads,

(01:10:37):
so that you do have success,don't be afraid to reach out to
them.
There's a lot of them out there.

John Newtson (01:10:42):
Well, that's where I'd like you know again like
your willingness to come.
Share is a big deal in thisspace in particular.
A lot of small guys everyonesmall compared to agora in size.
Um are scared to to to bevulnerable about their business
and the irony is is that themedia groups, like everybody,
actually wants you guys once youjust see it and grow, yes,

(01:11:03):
they're willing to share becausethey help.
Everybody makes more money ifall of us are a little bit
bigger and so like there's so somany people like Brett who are
willing to share information andreally help your business.

And so yeah, they're.
They're actually stingier wheneverything's going well.
Now they're like.
Now they show up with like heyman, I need like a thousand
leads.
I'll give you a thousand leads,just tell me if they work Right
, there are people out therethat will work with you.
It actually sucks wheneverything's going well or
there's one promo that'sdominating and you got to beg
somebody to run your stuff.
Now is not that time.

(01:11:33):
Everybody's skinny.
We're getting skinny.
A lot of people are gettinghealthier again and a lot of
people are also seeing new highsinto the market share because
they're starting to spend moneymore now than they were three
years ago, when everything wasmuch more expensive.
I'm not saying things aren'texpensive, were three years ago,
when everything was much moreexpensive.
I'm not saying things aren'texpensive.
I'm saying there aren't as manybuyers there.
So the people that are buyingmedia are finding better deals,

(01:11:56):
quicker turnarounds, more volume.
I'm not saying that's you, butas a business like.
If you said, brett, I want youto come on and be the CMO, I'd
be like.
You have to.
You have to commit to five to.
You have to commit to 10 to 20percent of your revenue every
month being spent externally.
If you're not willing to dothat, because you want to be on
a boat with your wife or youwant to like that, I'm not
working for a company that won'tspend money.

(01:12:17):
It's not going to happen.
It's a waste of my time, it's awaste of yours.
So and I know it's hard, butit's supposed to be hard You're
not going to win every month,but if you don't get up to the
bat, you're also not going toplay for very long.

Dan (01:12:31):
Yeah, you know, one of the biggest issues, which was one of
the questions that you askedand, I don't know, maybe
answered a lot of this alreadyis that if I spend a dollar on a
lead, that first week, you knowif I get back 50 cents, I mean

(01:12:52):
that's that's.

That's about what I do.

Dan (01:13:00):
Maybe uh if I'm 50% ROI in one week on a lead is well above
industry's average.
Yeah, I was probably beinggenerous to myself.

Um, 30% is usually pretty good.
A hundred percent after 45 days.
It should be your target range.
Some of the guys that arelarger.
They can go out 90 days to 120days and that's fine.
That's what they can do.
That's not the world thatyou're in.
But if you're doing eightwebinars a month and you're
bringing in leads, 45 days youshould be able to break even.
I can tell you that there arebusinesses out there right now

(01:13:24):
with the exact same model.
They don't have a very goodexternal evergreen product.
It converts to 20 to 30 roi upfront.
They make up the difference indoing live webinars and live
events that are pertinent to themarket.
Um, so you should be there, youshould.
You should be able to catchthat money up in 30 to 45 days
and if you lose a thousand bucks, so what?

(01:13:45):
You will make it up at somepoint.

But do not let the list dry up not to just not to
make sure we're making anassumption about.
When you do buy media, what doyou send it to Yep?

Dan (01:14:00):
Well, I mean, if I use some , oh, I typically send it to an
e-book or strategy guide, I'llcall it.
I typically send it to ane-book or strategy guide, I'll
call it that puts them into afunnel, that puts them into a
webinar A lot, sometimesevergreen, and sometimes we'll
time it just right so that itgoes into a live webinar.

Sure, make sure they go into the e-letter file,
make sure that you'recommunicating with them, the
live stuff that you're doing.
I really don't like 30 funnels,14 day funnels.
I think they should have athree day funnel and then after
that they should be in yourworld where you're talking to
them every day about shit that'sactually happening.
Yeah, unless you had one of thetop three copywriters in the
world, right, you a 30 dayfunnel.

(01:14:42):
It's probably doing more harmthan good.

Yeah, I've never really heard, seen anybody who
actually tried shortening thesales cycle.
Regret it in the industry.

So there are some people out there that I know
like, especially in the realestate spaces and the people
with less content than us.
But why deprive somebody whocame in with a, with an active
interest with the, the you knowprobably the attention span of a
net, to assume that over 30days, you sending them 15 emails
to buy a product that they'vealready said no to 14 times,

(01:15:16):
without starting to send themreal content about the market,
is advantageous?
That doesn't make any sense tome.
Now there are markers out thereto be like well, our funnel
works and I don't want anybodytalking to our guy while they're
in our funnel.
Fine, I contest that you can dothe same thing in a five-day
funnel with 12 emails that youcan do in a 30-day funnel with
12 emails, I guarantee you.
As a matter of fact, I don'tknow if you saw Rob Braddock's

(01:15:36):
post about the promo that he puttogether which, by the way, I
don't know if it works.
I don't know if it doesn't work, but I know that his promotion
of it and the quality of it isfreaking awesome.
Because here's the thing whatdid he do every day?
And what did he do every day?
He put up two.
I mean it wasn't much, but heput up two LinkedIn posts that
were extremely pointed.
That had everybody talkingabout it.
He had enough sizzle there thatyou saw what he did.
That was different.

(01:15:56):
Chris was great, the promo wasgreat, the shot was great and
everybody is just waiting aroundsaying I want to.
I mean I don't know how many II hit him up and I I fell for my
own shit.
So I was like I got to see thisthing.
I got to see this thing, but hedid that in three to five days.
He didn't need 14.
He didn't need 20.
You can do the same thing withopportunity.

(01:16:17):
Get people into an e-letterthat fulfills them on a daily
basis with value.
Establish that USP.
I know nothing in this businessthat is worth more than that.
That is so overlooked byeverybody.
People think free e-letters aresomething that you can create
in AI, or they're just.
You send them out at eighto'clock and they say some
bullshit and they don't everread them.

(01:16:37):
They don't care about theiropen rates.
All they care about is theirmarketing cycle.
Where do you think thosemarketing cycles people's like?
Do you think they're beingfulfilled by getting new sales
pitches?
Some maybe, but the majority ofthem don't want to leave that
e-letter because there's valuethere.
The biggest businesses in thisindustry have value in that
e-letter daily wealth.

(01:16:58):
I don't even know what AgoraFinancials is anymore.
Daily Reckoning, investmentu,the one at Motley Fool.
I mean, look at Motley Fool'se-letter.
Like literally you're talkingeight million people on a file
and the fact that they weren't apart of the Agora universe and
they figured it out even beforeAgora.
Because I was working withMotley Fool in 1998 when they

(01:17:21):
were the MotleyFoolcom with thejester hats and shit.
They knew the value of thatletter and they don't mess
around with it.
That's their baby and people inthis industry overlook it so
hard.
They fire their editors.
They don't care about it.
All they care about is theirmarketing cycle.
You're going to find yourselfand you're going to be neutered

(01:17:42):
pretty quick if that's all youcare about, unless you're buying
money and turning it around in30 days and even then.
So I'll give you anotherexample.
There's companies out therespending a shitload of money.
The guys at NUPR, right, orsome of the other guys have been
about FMS.
I don't want to call them outby name, but they're spending a
half a million to a milliondollars a month.
And you talk to them a yearlater or two years later and

(01:18:05):
John could probably attest thisin a private conversation but
they're like well, now I've runout of good places for my leads
and I can't scale this budgetanymore, like well.
So what's your annuity?
What's that?
What is the value that you reapfrom these people, aside from
the 30-day funnel, the telesalesfunnel and the live webinar
that you did for the acquisition?

(01:18:25):
What do you do with them afterthat?
Well, we sell them and then wesell them more stuff.
What do you do with them afterthat?
Well, we sell them and then wesell them more stuff.
But it's it's not going well.
No shit, because you didn'tbuild an annuity, you didn't
build anything there.
That's going to last.
Right, and that is literallywhat I know that and people can
work all they want about a freee-letter.
It's got to be good and it'sgot to go out and it's got to be
unique.
And the people that have that,they find themselves when times

(01:18:47):
are.
They have something to dependon.
The guys that are just buyingtraffic to build a funnel to do
sales.
I've been around this businesslong enough to know that I've
seen 30 of those guys pop up andthey're like I'm like the
greatest media buyer in theworld.
I'm like, no, you have a newproduct, good marketing in a
niche, but I can tell you thatin two years I won't see you

(01:19:11):
again.
And that has happened so manytimes because they don't care
about the business in and ofitself and they don't have a
purpose.
They just wanted to build afunnel.
That made money and God blessthem.
But they'll be on to sellingpenis pills or heart medication
or whatever is hot next.
They won't be in this business.

This is exactly the difference between offer
owner and publisher right here,right Is, there's a lot of
really amazing marketers who canbuild an offer in a funnel and
go out in a lot of niches andjust burn through and put big
numbers up and then, like Brettsays, in a couple of years
they're gone.
We see it a lot.
The difference is, if you'reacquiring those customers in a

(01:19:52):
way that you can build anongoing relationship and keep a
huge chunk of them payingattention, then you have a
publishing business that can bemuch bigger than just the offer,
and so there's a lot of sex onthe offer side up front, and
that's why everyone's all like Igot this funnel.
And there's always every everyfew years there's a new internet
marketing cycle where you'llsee, someone will take all the

(01:20:14):
traditional pieces, rename themin a new way, and here's the
funnel, this is the funnel andeveryone does the funnel and
they're like all the successesare people who did nothing
before, and then they putsomething in place and it worked
for them to some degree andit's like oh, this is amazing,
it's perfect, it works.
And then there's no publishingbusiness behind it.
There's no communication,there's no e-letters or nothing.

(01:20:36):
They just have a sales processLooks great, does great, makes
money Disappears over and overagain, yep.
What else else you want on this?

no, I mean, that's that's you know.
I'll send you my bill.
That's that's a lot.
But what I'd like to do, john,which I think would be a value
to people, is check back in inAugust and see where we are, and
I'd also, if you're up for it,dan, I'd also like to kind of
maybe do you record some of yourwebinars uh, yeah, yeah, I

(01:21:14):
record for.

I'd love to take.
Maybe maybe we can do a versionof this and grab a couple of
hobby writers, maybe do it live,like Brett suggested earlier,
um, and maybe we can kind of runthrough, um, some of your copy,
um, give suggestions, thingslike that um on the promos and
products um, and see if we cankind of like give you guys some
ideas on that side and then,yeah, check that.
Then we can check back in in amonth or a couple months here

(01:21:39):
and see, see, what, what, which,which we're able to kind of
deal with from all this.

Dan if you want to, if you want to send me.
If this is a lot and I used alot of nomenclature here which
may be foreign to you and Itried to sound really smart I
tried to take some notes herewhich will at least be able to
like you can hearken back to.
But if you need me to readsomething or rehash an
individual idea, just try to doone thing at a time Right now.
Get that e-letter out every day.
Make sure it's healthy.

(01:22:06):
Get it out of keep if you can.
Put it in.
Be hot if you can, but get yourmessaging right.
Be a statue in the middle ofthis field of other financial
experts.
Be in there.
Don't be afraid to send contentbecause it costs too much.
I swear to God, if you saidthat to me and I work for you,
I'd be like I quit.
I can't do that.

(01:22:26):
Like if somebody walked into myhouse and house.
Be like brett.
We got to send less mailbecause the mail costs too much.
Be like I don't know whatbusiness we're in, but this
ain't mine, because it costsabout 0.001 cents to send a mail
and you're telling me it's tooexpensive to send the mail.
That ain't good.
Um, that, yeah, I'm not.
I'm not saying that to be adouche.
I'm saying that because it youthat math can't be in your

(01:22:48):
decision makingmaking.
Your messaging and what yousend out has to be of the utmost
importance.
And if you want to send it out15 times a day, as long as that
mail is healthy, delivered,opened and clicked, that's what
you should do.

Dan (01:23:02):
I also need to make sure that they're not throttling me
for sending out too many emailstoo.

Yeah, I mean that's the.
I mean don't take this thewrong way, but that's the pussy
ass answer.
Okay, right, all right, like,don't like get out of keep, like
, go to be.
You know you can stay in keepfor those two emails a week, but
take that list and move it overto beehive and start sending
from there and see what it lookslike.
I understand the throttling.
I don't mean to go 15 times aday, but you can go every day.
That's not going to hurt you.

(01:23:30):
Going twice a day in probablythree or four weeks is probably
where you want to be.
One marketing, one editorial Iassume you send marketing every
day.

Dan (01:23:44):
Well, not necessarily Okay.

On average, I'd say in the industry everybody sends
two emails a day to every list,just about, unless the list is
a very niche list.
But your core file gets twoemails a day, no matter what.
I don't know anybody whodoesn't send two emails a day.
And when things are doing well,sometimes they get three,
sometimes they get four, but twois pretty much bare minimum.
Sometimes they're four, but twois pretty much bare minimum.

(01:24:15):
And I'll tell you, the dogma toavoid is well, our people don't
like getting that much mail.
Incorrect, the people thatcomplain don't like getting that
much mail.
I hate to say it because if ourcustomers saw us doing this
they'd be like, well, screw thisguy.
Do you turn off Seinfeldbecause there were commercials?
Right, but if, but if I askedyou like, what do you hate most
about TV?
Oh, I hate damn commercials.
But do you like Seinfeld?

(01:24:35):
Because there wouldn't be aSeinfeld without the commercials
.
Buddy, I hate to break it to you.
Like they don't do it for free,so people understand it, but
they love to complain about it.
And if you listen to people'slike incoherent complaining
about things, that people loveto complain about everything,
you can't listen to them.
If you listen to your wife oryour mom or your brother about
everything they complained about, you would think that they had

(01:24:56):
the worst life ever.
Nope, they just like tocomplain.
And to a company like ours,especially over the internet,
the complaints get pointier andthey come more and more.
You have to have a thick skinabout it Just a great story.

I always love the story because Adam Richardson
always tell me about when heworked at Altucher.
Altucher loved his blog postsand it was like his favorite
thing that he would send out.
And he was, you know, that washis thing and that was he was
known for.
And they sent out somemarketing emails and he got
pissed off because theunsubscribes from the marketing
email was hurting the list.
And they just showed him hey,the unsubscribes in the
marketing email are lower thanthe unsubscribes from the

(01:25:32):
content blog post that you sendout.
And then it's okay, whatever.

Um, so yeah, it's um, a lot of the list and it's
ego.
I.
I don't work on that, I work onthe numbers.
If the numbers show me adoubling in clicks, I'm happy,
because clicks mean that mypeople are happy.
If I piss off 1% of people,here's the other number that I
can tell you, Dan, because I hadto pull this from Mike Ward
back in the day.
He made me do it because he hadthe same problem.

(01:25:59):
He's like Brett I'm tired of.
Because Bill Bonner and MarkFord were like you guys send too
much damn email.
Because other people in Agorawere jealous of how much email
we send and because other peoplein Agora were jealous of how
much email we send.
And that happens Like.
I was even at John's conferenceat the Pendry and I watched.
I forget his name.
What's his name?
Camaterra, Camarera.
Like he stood up.

(01:26:19):
Yeah, it was Camarera, he usedto work at Agora.
Financial Camerer, yeah, Camerer, yeah, Tom Tom was like stop
sending so much damn mail.
I'm like that's okay, I guess,Whatever.
It's like telling somebody stopgoing to the gym so much.
It's ridiculous, you don't needto go that much.

(01:26:40):
Yeah, okay, Anytime you want toarm wrestle, I'm willing to
take you on.
Like people don't like sendingmail because they don't have
anything to say.
I get that.
And they don't like sendingmail because they don't have
anything to say?
I get that.
And they don't look at thenumbers.
The numbers that Mike wanted meto pull was Brett, because he
was getting complaints.
He was like everybody in Goresare planning to send in like
three times as much mail aseverybody else.
It's bullshit.
I'm like okay, let me pull allthe people that unsubscribed.

(01:27:04):
And we pulled everybody.
It took about two months andGrace Epperson helped with this.
I was like pull all theunsubscribes and tell me what
their LTV was.
There was one buyer out of15,000 people.
I was like who'd you lose?
After that, Mike was just likeyou do what you want with the
email.
I was like thank you.

Dan (01:27:28):
Just stand away, all right, awesome, this was great, great
stuff, I really appreciate.

I hope you got some value out of it.
Dan again, spend the money,make the volume.
Um, the tough part of thisbusiness is the art right.
So the messaging, the qualityof the editorial, the quality of
the webinars, these are thingsthat need you know the
day-to-day interaction of yourbusiness.
I can tell you how to build theroads, but how you drive on
them, that's going to be up toyou a little bit.

(01:27:56):
Yep, all right, at least inthese sessions.
Yep, john, you cool, I'm cool.
This is great.
Guys, I appreciate it If youstuck around this whole time.
If somebody sees this, I willsend you $20 because I want to
see how many people actuallystuck around.
You just hit me up on LinkedInor my email address or whatever.

You made it all the way through.
You got 20 bucks from Brett.

Yeah, man, Actually I'm kind of looking for a
response right there.
That's a free 20 bucks.

Dan (01:28:23):
Wait, does that count for me too?

Thanks guys, awesome Thanks.
Take care Bye.

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