February 18, 2020 • 24 mins
In episode 10 of Focus on the Future, we talk about decision making and guardianship. In Minnesota, there are many options, including supported decision making, full & limited guardianship, authorized representation, and more. Tune in to hear about what each option means, and how it could be a good fit for the person with a disability and you as a caregiver. Guardianship and its other options are an important piece in honoring choice and defining a life that is fulfilling and meaningful to each individual person.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
- Guardianship Options (‘webinar’ on Youtube): youtube.com/watch?v=vla29A4xkEk&t=486s
- Arc Guide to Guardianship: arcminnesota.org/resource/arc-guide-to-guardianship
- Supported Decision Making: supportmydecision.org
- Texas’ Supported Decision Making Agreement: thearcoftexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Supported_Decision_Making_For_Families_UPDATED_Jan_2016.pdf
About Focus on the Future
Focus on the Future is a podcast for caregivers and families supporting people with disabilities. In each episode, a conversation about the journey of discovering our best life and how to achieve it. While exploring legal, financial, and quality of life structures, Focus on the Future aims to get back to what matters most: living a fulfilling and meaningful life that is defined by each individual person.
You can find more information about Focus on the Future at arcminnesota.org/podcast. If Episode 10 inspired a question for an Arc Advocate, call The Arc Minnesota at 833.450.1494.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Music (00:03):
[ music playing]
Allycia Wolff (00:06):
Welcome to Focus on the Future, a future planning
podcast for caregivers andfamilies supporting people with
disabilities.
Focus on the Future is a podcastof The Arc Minnesota, a
nonprofit organizationadvocating for people with
intellectual and developmentaldisabilities.
Hi, my name is Allycia Wolff andI'm your host for Focus on the
(00:26):
Future and an advocate here atThe Arc Minnesota.
In this week's episode we'regoing to be talking about
guardianship and supporteddecision making.
This is a topic that often comesup when people are about to turn
18 and become quote, unquotelegal adults, like we all do.
And guardianship has long beentalked about a way to help
(00:46):
people make decisions abouttheir life when they are not
able to.
So today we're going to unpackthis a little bit and talk about
all the options that peoplehave.
Thanks for joining us.
Music (01:05):
[ music playing]
Allycia Wolff (01:06):
So where do we start in this conversation?
Let's start by taking a momentto articulate what kinds of
decisions you're the mostconcerned about.
So you may want to write themdown or just set some space
aside in your brain.
When you think about the futureand your loved one making
(01:27):
decisions, what brings you themost concern?
It's important to pick apartthese pieces now because when
you learn about guardianship andthe alternatives and the powers
of guardianship, you'll be ableto pick out specifically what a
person needs.
And that's the important parttoo is only taking powers of
guardianship or giving somebodysupport in the areas in which
(01:50):
they need.
Like I don't need help infinding a place to live so I
wouldn't need somebody to takethat power of guardianship.
So just take a moment to reallythink about what is needed.
Before we really dive in, I wantto go into a little bit of
history of guardianship and howwe got here.
For centuries and for decades,guardianship has been a part of
(02:12):
the discussion when thinkingabout supporting people with
disabilities.
And this started hundreds ofyears ago and really started to
come into fruition and back inthe days of institutionalization
in the 40s and 50s and 60s and70s and prior to that as well.
But when people withdisabilities went to state
hospitals, then the state wouldhave decision making powers over
(02:37):
a person.
And then that has stayed a partof the current conversation in
supporting people withdisabilities because when
anybody turns 18 we become afull legal adult and we're able
to make all of our own choicesand decisions.
And so guardianship reallybecame a conversation when
(02:58):
people were saying,"Oh wellpeople with disabilities don't
have the capacity or the abilityor the competency to be able to
make decisions about their life.
So we should remove those rightsand then put them on to somebody
who is considered a competentadult." So this has been a
conversation for a really longtime that if you have a
disability, guardianship is aneeded process to happen.
(03:23):
And while guardianship is areally necessary process for
some people.
It's just one option as far asdecision making goes.
And so the podcast today isgoing to dive in to all of the
options in decision making.
And I want you to know that I'mnot here to place a value
judgment on what decision fordecision making, you and your
(03:48):
family make because I don't knoweach person individually but it
is my job to help people knowthat there are options.
So since you have already pickedaside what different decision
making help your loved oneneeds.
Now we're going to talk aboutwhat ways you can help your
loved one make decisions indifferent areas.
(04:11):
And so typically when I talkabout guardianship, I have a
whole hour long presentation.
This podcast isn't going to be awhole hour long cause that's a
lot of information.
So I'm going to talk more highlevel about options in
guardianship and know that youcan call the arc of course
anytime for any advocacyassistance.
There is a webinar on YouTubethat you can watch also for more
(04:33):
in depth information.
And we also have an Arc Guide toguardianship on our website.
Our Arc Guides are documentsthat advocates that here at The
Arc make and type up and explaina really complicated system into
terms that the everyday humancan understand.
So our Arc Guide to guardianshipgoes over alternatives as well
(04:56):
as the powers of guardianship.
So when we think aboutguardianship and what options we
have, guardianship is oneoption, a full guardianship.
Also there's a limitedguardianship.
The court process has sevendifferent powers of guardianship
and now this is in Minnesota.
This is specific to Minnesotastate statute.
(05:17):
If you're in another state, I'mnot sure what the powers of
guardianship would be, but inMinnesota you can do a full
guardianship which has all sevenpowers, a limited guardianship,
which is picking and choosingany of those powers that a
person needs, and thenalternatives.
Alternatives are anything thatdon't require the guardianship
court process.
(05:40):
A lot of people are interestedin alternatives to guardianship
because they know that theirchild needs support in making
decisions, just like a lot of 18year olds need support in making
decisions.
But they don't want topermanently remove decision
making rights because going tocourt is permanently removing
(06:00):
decision making rights.
So The Arc's stance is to tryalternatives as much as possible
and know that you can tryalternatives to guardianship and
then at any point you can goback to court and you can try to
pursue a guardianship.
There's a, there's a myth goingaround a lot of circles that you
have to do guardianship by thetime somebody turns 18 otherwise
(06:22):
it's going to be a really,really difficult process.
This is not true.
You could pursue guardianshipwhen a person is 18 when a
person's 19, 25 45 62.
Side note (06:34):
guardianship often happens frequently within two
populations within servingpeople with disabilities, and
within serving people who areelderly or aging.
And so people that are losingcapacities to make decisions.
All right, back to alternatives.
Alternatives are a good optionfor people who still want to
(06:54):
help their child and support inmaking decisions, but not remove
that right.
Because the way that we makegood decisions and learn how to
make good decisions is bypracticing that.
I use the silly example that ifsomebody were to come in and
say, Hey Allycia, I'm going todo your laundry and mow your
lawn for the rest of your life.
(07:15):
I'd be like, yeah, okay, cool.
Go for it.
I don't want to learn how to dothose things then.
And it's a silly example and Iuse a silly example
intentionally because withoutever being pushed to learn how
to make those decisions, I'mnever going to learn how to make
those decisions.
And there's a lot to be saidabout feeling that power and
(07:37):
autonomy over my own life andfeeling like, Oh, hey, this is
my life.
These are my decisions.
And to feel a lot of power inthat.
We find that people withdisabilities that don't have a
guardianship are actually lesssusceptible to instances of
abuse because of that autonomyand that power that they feel.
(07:58):
So these alternatives, what arethey?
Just to list off a fewalternatives.
Some are a release ofinformation.
A parent can have their childsign a release of information
for their doctor's office or fortheir school.
So parents can still talk todoctors and psychologists and
teachers and still getinformation that's needed.
(08:19):
Another alternative wouldpotentially be an authorized
representative.
This is somebody who can be on aperson's medical assistance
account with them and so theycan manage and call MA and do
all of that fun healthcarestuff, without having to have a
power of guardianship orsomething more restrictive.
(08:40):
So the authorized representativeis a way to help manage that.
Another alternative toguardianship is the ABLE
account.
We talked about that in anearlier episode of the podcast.
Another alternative could be acircle of support.
So this is the people that youknow in life who are there to
help you in making decisions.
If I went out to my car todayand I had a flat tire, I would
(09:04):
have no idea what to do.
I unfortunately never was taughthow to change a flat tire.
Now this isn't something that isan incompetence of mine.
I have the ability to learn howto change a flat tire and do
that.
It's just not a skill that Icurrently have.
But what I do have is people inmy life that I can turn to for
(09:24):
help.
And that's something that mostof us have and on all of us
pretty much have somebody, haveat least one person that we can
reach out to and seek out forhelp.
And this is an alternative toguardianship because I may not
know how to change that tire,but I do have AAA, I do have an
uncle who's a car mechanic whocan talk me through it or can
(09:45):
come and help me.
And so that's my circle ofsupport.
And then another really coolalternative to guardianship is a
supported decision makingagreement.
Now a supported decision makingagreement is a a term that we,
that the guardianship communityis using a lot because
guardianship itself is asubstitute decision making
(10:07):
process, right?
Because it's a substitute,somebody else's being a
substitute for that decisionmaking.
What we're trying to movetowards is supported decision
making and a supported decisionmaking agreement is kind of a
contract, quote unquote, if youwill, of a way that somebody can
have a conversation about whatkind of support they want in
(10:29):
making.
So a person with a disabilitywould sit down and would fill
out a supported decision makingagreement.
There's a lot of forms that youcan find online that give a
template for this.
You can go tosupporteddecisionmaking.org, you
can Google...
Texas has a really greatsupported decision making
agreement, and basically it saysthe person with a disability is
able to say I want help in whatkind of medications I take, in a
(10:56):
where I live, in how I schedulemy doctor's appointments, and
what jobs I take, but I don'twant help in where I live or
what kind of personalpossessions I have.
And so it's a person sayingthemselves what kind of help
they want in decision making.
And this can be a reallypowerful tool because it opens
up the conversation of what aperson wants and doesn't want.
(11:19):
I like to think of a supporteddecision making agreement as
kind of a casual contract.
When I was 16, one of my friendsgot her driver's license and her
family decided to let her usethe family car.
But as a family they came upwith a contract.
She could only use the carbetween the hours of 7:00 and
(11:41):
9:00 PM, and there could only beone person in the car, and this
contract wasn't legally bindingby any means, but it did allow
my friend and her family to haveabout how she was going to
slowly transition into drivingsafely with the support of her
parents.
If she broke that contract, herparents couldn't call the police
(12:04):
and say, you know, she broke thecontract, but it would be a
format to help people just knowwhat kind of support was
available and what kind of helpshe could expect to receive.
So supported decision makingagreement is a really great tool
that some states are starting toput into statute.
And Minnesota is actually tryingreally hard right now through a
(12:28):
few different interdisciplinarycollaborations to try to put
into statutes so that peoplewith disabilities, and people
that need decision making help,have more options.
Because right now the only legaloption to help people make
decisions is by removingsomebody's rights through
guardianship.
So we want to create moreopportunities for people to get
support in making decisions.
(12:50):
Because when many of us are turn18 we're not making the best
decisions about our life.
And it takes a lot of trial anderror and a lot of support to be
able to make better decisions inthe future.
So to permanently removesomebody's rights through
guardianship at 18, that can bechallenging.
(13:13):
It could be, it could besomething that can be really
hard for people.
And so a lot of people, a lot ofparents are saying, you know, I
want to support my child inmaking decisions about the
future, but I also want to givemy child the opportunity to make
mistakes and to learn how tomake more decisions in the
future.
Everybody has that capacity tobe able to learn how to make
(13:35):
better choices in the future.
So alternatives to guardianshipcan be a great way to go about
that.
Now, let's say that you tryalternatives to guardianship for
a year, so your kid turns 18 andthen you try alternatives until
19.
Let's say it goes great.
That's wonderful.
You can keep doing alternativesin whatever way they work
(13:57):
forever.
Let's say that it doesn't go sowell.
You can go back to court at 19or any other age and say, Hey,
we really tried alternatives.
They don't work.
We do need one or two powers ofguardianship or a full
guardianship, and then you canexplain to the judge why this is
needed.
Judges are starting to ask thequestion now when it's coming to
(14:18):
guardianship, what alternativeshave you tried and why haven't
those alternatives been enoughto support somebody in decision
making?
It starting to change theimplication that people with
disabilities need a guardian,and it's starting to say people
with disabilities are competentand like everybody need help and
(14:39):
support.
And so and so tell me about thisperson individually, what works,
and what doesn't work.
So let's dive in a little bit tothe actual guardianship court
process and what statute says.
So guardianship in Minnesota issplit into seven different
powers.
(15:01):
Of these seven different powers,people are required to choose
only and exactly what a personneeds in decision making rights.
So just for the sake ofclarification, I'm going to list
out the seven different powersand kind of explain what each
power covers.
The first power of guardianshipis determining place of abode,
(15:22):
which is where a person lives.
The second power is care,comfort, and maintenance.
This includes academic servicesand vocational services.
So job and school.
The third power is reasonablecare for personal effects.
This is clothing and furniture.
The belongings that a personhas.
The fourth power of guardianshipis medical or other professional
(15:45):
care.
The fifth power is approving orwithholding of contracts.
The seventh power is supervisoryauthority, knowing who somebody
is spending time with.
And the seventh power isaccessing government benefits.
So these powers are all variousdifferent aspects to a person's
(16:08):
life as far as decision makinggoes.
Note that the powers of decisionmaking for guardianship are
different than the powers ofdecision making for a parent.
So it's different.
And that's worth noting becausea guardian only has the powers
of guardianship that are coveredin the seven different powers.
(16:28):
So sometimes it can getconfusing for parents and for
loved ones and for caregivers ofwhat a guardianship is and what
a guardianship isn't like,what's a parent's responsibility
and what's a guardian'sresponsibility.
So you can always go back to theseven different powers to know
exactly what a person isrequired to give assistance
with.
Now also, guardianship isn'tsomething that is going to
(16:51):
necessarily inherently fix orsolve a lot of the issues that
parents and caregivers wouldimagine that it would or would
hope for it to.
So let's use the for instance ofthe medical or other
professional care power.
So let's say as guardian you areguardian of the medical power.
(17:12):
Now this means that as guardian,you are responsible to set up
any doctor's appointments or anytherapy appointments.
You can manage a person'smedication and the dose of
medication and you can set allthat up.
So that's all the decisionmaking for that medical piece.
Now this doesn't really extendbeyond that.
(17:32):
So you can set up all of thebest therapies and a person can
go and refuse to talk to thetherapist or they can just
refuse to go because peoplestill have those civil and
constitutional rights.
So it doesn't necessarily fixall of the things that people
would think that it would.
You can set up the perfect IEPfor somebody, but a person could
(17:53):
still say, Hey, I don't want tofollow that IEP.
I'm not going to show up toschool.
And so there's littleintricacies and things to
consider and please call us andwe'd be happy to chat with you
through all of these.
But ultimately those are theseven powers of guardianship and
you can imagine them as silos.
So if a person only needs two ofthe powers of guardianship, you
(18:14):
can just pick and choose andfile a petition for only those
two.
Remember that you are notrequired to do a guardianship.
It is not a requirement and it'snot something that has to be
done by any one point.
That's just something reallyimportant to note because it's
something that has come up a lotin calls that I've received
(18:35):
lately.
And now let's talk a little bitabout the rights that people
have under guardianship.
In Minnesota state statute,there is a bill of rights for
people under guardianship.
And this bill of rights includeshuman rights that every person
(18:56):
has, regardless of any level ofguardianship that they have.
So this is everything from, theright to be treated with dignity
and respect, to the right toprivacy, to the right to get
married and procreate.
So the right to get married andhave children isn't impacted at
(19:16):
all by a guardianship process.
Also on that bill of rights isthe right to be treated in a
person-centered way as far asguardianship decisions are
taken.
And what it means to beperson-centered is by giving
somebody real due diligence inwhat they say their desires are
(19:40):
and what their hopes and theirdreams are.
And so as a guardian, it is aperson's responsibility to hear
what a person under guardianshipwants and to do their best to
try to make that a reality.
So if a person wants to say, owna gun, it is the guardian's
(20:00):
responsibility to have aconversation with a person about
what it means to own a gun, whythey want to own a gun, what
they want to do with that, howto be safe in doing that.
And so to really have thatconversation with people and to
really see from the person'spoint of view why they want
(20:20):
that.
And so it is the guardian'sresponsibility to really do due
diligence in looking throughthat request.
Being person-centered alsodoesn't mean that if a person
requests to have something thenyep, okay, absolutely.
Being person-centered meansreally honoring somebody and
their choice and what they wantand hearing them and respecting
(20:43):
that request and then having aconversation about what it would
look like in reality on aday-to-day basis.
And then being able to make thatdecision in a respectful way.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat you have to say yes to that
request.
You know, it may end up beingthat getting a gun just isn't a
really good choice, as a parentmay suggest to their child
(21:04):
regardless.
But being person-centered doesmean being open to the
conversation and really honoringsomebody's desires and hearing
people just like we would allhope from our friends and our
family.
So being person centered againis the duty of a guardian.
And to help people learn how tomake choices moving forward
because everybody has thecapacity to be able to make
(21:26):
choices and to learn.
So that's basically what I want,and what I hope for people who
are listening to this podcasttoday to take away.
Is that guardianship has been aconversation for many, many
years when it comes tosupporting people with
disabilities.
But it's only one option.
And there are other reallywonderful options like
alternatives to guardianship orlimited guardianship if a
(21:49):
guardianship is even needed.
Too often we just assume thatpeople need a guardian and don't
question ourselves into like,why are we assuming that.
You know, some people mayactually need a guardian, people
who have really complex medicalconditions or people that have
really significant needs mayneed a guardian.
(22:11):
But when we look at overall,people with disabilities who
fall into that category ofneeding that level of decision
making, it's pretty minimal.
So get creative in how to helpsomebody making decisions about
living their life because peopleare competent and can make
(22:32):
decisions and do have thecapacity to be able to live
really wonderful lives.
And that's really overall whatthis whole podcast series is
about is how can we empowerpeople to live their own life,
make great choices, be happy,and feel supported by friends
and family.
Right.
And guardianship is just onepart of that.
(22:53):
Now, next week we're going to betalking about successor care and
sibling support, which flowsinto this conversation I think
pretty seamlessly.
So tune in next week for whenwe're going to have that
discussion.
Music (23:13):
[ music playing]
Allycia Wolff (23:14):
And as always, if this episode inspired any
questions from an advocate atThe Arc, please give us a call
at(833) 450-1494.
We are always here to answer anyquestions.
As I mentioned before, we have awebinar on YouTube called
guardianship options and it goesmore into depth into all of the
(23:35):
stuff that I touched on today.
Focus on the Future is a podcastof The Arc Minnesota.
Subscribe to this podcast onyour favorite streaming service
to stay up date with the newestepisodes.
Please give us a review and letus know what you'd like to hear
in the future.
If you're enjoying listening,you can also support the podcast
and our mission by donating atthearcminnesota.
(23:57):
org/podcast.
Our podcast music is composedand recorded by Micah Kadwell.
Micah is a talented guitaristfrom New Brighton, Minnesota who
also has autism.
Thank you, Micah.
Focus on the Future is producedby myself and hosted and is
supported by a team of soundengineers.
(24:18):
Thank you everybody.
Have a great day and we'll talkto you next time.
Music (24:22):
[ music playing]
[ music playing]
Allycia Wolff (00:06):
Welcome to Focus on the Future, a future planning
podcast for caregivers andfamilies supporting people with
disabilities.
Focus on the Future is a podcastof The Arc Minnesota, a
nonprofit organizationadvocating for people with
intellectual and developmentaldisabilities.
Hi, my name is Allycia Wolff andI'm your host for Focus on the
(00:26):
Future and an advocate here atThe Arc Minnesota.
In this week's episode we'regoing to be talking about
guardianship and supporteddecision making.
This is a topic that often comesup when people are about to turn
18 and become quote, unquotelegal adults, like we all do.
And guardianship has long beentalked about a way to help
(00:46):
people make decisions abouttheir life when they are not
able to.
So today we're going to unpackthis a little bit and talk about
all the options that peoplehave.
Thanks for joining us.
Music (01:05):
[ music playing]
Allycia Wolff (01:06):
So where do we start in this conversation?
Let's start by taking a momentto articulate what kinds of
decisions you're the mostconcerned about.
So you may want to write themdown or just set some space
aside in your brain.
When you think about the futureand your loved one making
(01:27):
decisions, what brings you themost concern?
It's important to pick apartthese pieces now because when
you learn about guardianship andthe alternatives and the powers
of guardianship, you'll be ableto pick out specifically what a
person needs.
And that's the important parttoo is only taking powers of
guardianship or giving somebodysupport in the areas in which
(01:50):
they need.
Like I don't need help infinding a place to live so I
wouldn't need somebody to takethat power of guardianship.
So just take a moment to reallythink about what is needed.
Before we really dive in, I wantto go into a little bit of
history of guardianship and howwe got here.
For centuries and for decades,guardianship has been a part of
(02:12):
the discussion when thinkingabout supporting people with
disabilities.
And this started hundreds ofyears ago and really started to
come into fruition and back inthe days of institutionalization
in the 40s and 50s and 60s and70s and prior to that as well.
But when people withdisabilities went to state
hospitals, then the state wouldhave decision making powers over
(02:37):
a person.
And then that has stayed a partof the current conversation in
supporting people withdisabilities because when
anybody turns 18 we become afull legal adult and we're able
to make all of our own choicesand decisions.
And so guardianship reallybecame a conversation when
(02:58):
people were saying,"Oh wellpeople with disabilities don't
have the capacity or the abilityor the competency to be able to
make decisions about their life.
So we should remove those rightsand then put them on to somebody
who is considered a competentadult." So this has been a
conversation for a really longtime that if you have a
disability, guardianship is aneeded process to happen.
(03:23):
And while guardianship is areally necessary process for
some people.
It's just one option as far asdecision making goes.
And so the podcast today isgoing to dive in to all of the
options in decision making.
And I want you to know that I'mnot here to place a value
judgment on what decision fordecision making, you and your
(03:48):
family make because I don't knoweach person individually but it
is my job to help people knowthat there are options.
So since you have already pickedaside what different decision
making help your loved oneneeds.
Now we're going to talk aboutwhat ways you can help your
loved one make decisions indifferent areas.
(04:11):
And so typically when I talkabout guardianship, I have a
whole hour long presentation.
This podcast isn't going to be awhole hour long cause that's a
lot of information.
So I'm going to talk more highlevel about options in
guardianship and know that youcan call the arc of course
anytime for any advocacyassistance.
There is a webinar on YouTubethat you can watch also for more
(04:33):
in depth information.
And we also have an Arc Guide toguardianship on our website.
Our Arc Guides are documentsthat advocates that here at The
Arc make and type up and explaina really complicated system into
terms that the everyday humancan understand.
So our Arc Guide to guardianshipgoes over alternatives as well
(04:56):
as the powers of guardianship.
So when we think aboutguardianship and what options we
have, guardianship is oneoption, a full guardianship.
Also there's a limitedguardianship.
The court process has sevendifferent powers of guardianship
and now this is in Minnesota.
This is specific to Minnesotastate statute.
(05:17):
If you're in another state, I'mnot sure what the powers of
guardianship would be, but inMinnesota you can do a full
guardianship which has all sevenpowers, a limited guardianship,
which is picking and choosingany of those powers that a
person needs, and thenalternatives.
Alternatives are anything thatdon't require the guardianship
court process.
(05:40):
A lot of people are interestedin alternatives to guardianship
because they know that theirchild needs support in making
decisions, just like a lot of 18year olds need support in making
decisions.
But they don't want topermanently remove decision
making rights because going tocourt is permanently removing
(06:00):
decision making rights.
So The Arc's stance is to tryalternatives as much as possible
and know that you can tryalternatives to guardianship and
then at any point you can goback to court and you can try to
pursue a guardianship.
There's a, there's a myth goingaround a lot of circles that you
have to do guardianship by thetime somebody turns 18 otherwise
(06:22):
it's going to be a really,really difficult process.
This is not true.
You could pursue guardianshipwhen a person is 18 when a
person's 19, 25 45 62.
Side note (06:34):
guardianship often happens frequently within two
populations within servingpeople with disabilities, and
within serving people who areelderly or aging.
And so people that are losingcapacities to make decisions.
All right, back to alternatives.
Alternatives are a good optionfor people who still want to
(06:54):
help their child and support inmaking decisions, but not remove
that right.
Because the way that we makegood decisions and learn how to
make good decisions is bypracticing that.
I use the silly example that ifsomebody were to come in and
say, Hey Allycia, I'm going todo your laundry and mow your
lawn for the rest of your life.
(07:15):
I'd be like, yeah, okay, cool.
Go for it.
I don't want to learn how to dothose things then.
And it's a silly example and Iuse a silly example
intentionally because withoutever being pushed to learn how
to make those decisions, I'mnever going to learn how to make
those decisions.
And there's a lot to be saidabout feeling that power and
(07:37):
autonomy over my own life andfeeling like, Oh, hey, this is
my life.
These are my decisions.
And to feel a lot of power inthat.
We find that people withdisabilities that don't have a
guardianship are actually lesssusceptible to instances of
abuse because of that autonomyand that power that they feel.
(07:58):
So these alternatives, what arethey?
Just to list off a fewalternatives.
Some are a release ofinformation.
A parent can have their childsign a release of information
for their doctor's office or fortheir school.
So parents can still talk todoctors and psychologists and
teachers and still getinformation that's needed.
(08:19):
Another alternative wouldpotentially be an authorized
representative.
This is somebody who can be on aperson's medical assistance
account with them and so theycan manage and call MA and do
all of that fun healthcarestuff, without having to have a
power of guardianship orsomething more restrictive.
(08:40):
So the authorized representativeis a way to help manage that.
Another alternative toguardianship is the ABLE
account.
We talked about that in anearlier episode of the podcast.
Another alternative could be acircle of support.
So this is the people that youknow in life who are there to
help you in making decisions.
If I went out to my car todayand I had a flat tire, I would
(09:04):
have no idea what to do.
I unfortunately never was taughthow to change a flat tire.
Now this isn't something that isan incompetence of mine.
I have the ability to learn howto change a flat tire and do
that.
It's just not a skill that Icurrently have.
But what I do have is people inmy life that I can turn to for
(09:24):
help.
And that's something that mostof us have and on all of us
pretty much have somebody, haveat least one person that we can
reach out to and seek out forhelp.
And this is an alternative toguardianship because I may not
know how to change that tire,but I do have AAA, I do have an
uncle who's a car mechanic whocan talk me through it or can
(09:45):
come and help me.
And so that's my circle ofsupport.
And then another really coolalternative to guardianship is a
supported decision makingagreement.
Now a supported decision makingagreement is a a term that we,
that the guardianship communityis using a lot because
guardianship itself is asubstitute decision making
(10:07):
process, right?
Because it's a substitute,somebody else's being a
substitute for that decisionmaking.
What we're trying to movetowards is supported decision
making and a supported decisionmaking agreement is kind of a
contract, quote unquote, if youwill, of a way that somebody can
have a conversation about whatkind of support they want in
(10:29):
making.
So a person with a disabilitywould sit down and would fill
out a supported decision makingagreement.
There's a lot of forms that youcan find online that give a
template for this.
You can go tosupporteddecisionmaking.org, you
can Google...
Texas has a really greatsupported decision making
agreement, and basically it saysthe person with a disability is
able to say I want help in whatkind of medications I take, in a
(10:56):
where I live, in how I schedulemy doctor's appointments, and
what jobs I take, but I don'twant help in where I live or
what kind of personalpossessions I have.
And so it's a person sayingthemselves what kind of help
they want in decision making.
And this can be a reallypowerful tool because it opens
up the conversation of what aperson wants and doesn't want.
(11:19):
I like to think of a supporteddecision making agreement as
kind of a casual contract.
When I was 16, one of my friendsgot her driver's license and her
family decided to let her usethe family car.
But as a family they came upwith a contract.
She could only use the carbetween the hours of 7:00 and
(11:41):
9:00 PM, and there could only beone person in the car, and this
contract wasn't legally bindingby any means, but it did allow
my friend and her family to haveabout how she was going to
slowly transition into drivingsafely with the support of her
parents.
If she broke that contract, herparents couldn't call the police
(12:04):
and say, you know, she broke thecontract, but it would be a
format to help people just knowwhat kind of support was
available and what kind of helpshe could expect to receive.
So supported decision makingagreement is a really great tool
that some states are starting toput into statute.
And Minnesota is actually tryingreally hard right now through a
(12:28):
few different interdisciplinarycollaborations to try to put
into statutes so that peoplewith disabilities, and people
that need decision making help,have more options.
Because right now the only legaloption to help people make
decisions is by removingsomebody's rights through
guardianship.
So we want to create moreopportunities for people to get
support in making decisions.
(12:50):
Because when many of us are turn18 we're not making the best
decisions about our life.
And it takes a lot of trial anderror and a lot of support to be
able to make better decisions inthe future.
So to permanently removesomebody's rights through
guardianship at 18, that can bechallenging.
(13:13):
It could be, it could besomething that can be really
hard for people.
And so a lot of people, a lot ofparents are saying, you know, I
want to support my child inmaking decisions about the
future, but I also want to givemy child the opportunity to make
mistakes and to learn how tomake more decisions in the
future.
Everybody has that capacity tobe able to learn how to make
(13:35):
better choices in the future.
So alternatives to guardianshipcan be a great way to go about
that.
Now, let's say that you tryalternatives to guardianship for
a year, so your kid turns 18 andthen you try alternatives until
19.
Let's say it goes great.
That's wonderful.
You can keep doing alternativesin whatever way they work
(13:57):
forever.
Let's say that it doesn't go sowell.
You can go back to court at 19or any other age and say, Hey,
we really tried alternatives.
They don't work.
We do need one or two powers ofguardianship or a full
guardianship, and then you canexplain to the judge why this is
needed.
Judges are starting to ask thequestion now when it's coming to
(14:18):
guardianship, what alternativeshave you tried and why haven't
those alternatives been enoughto support somebody in decision
making?
It starting to change theimplication that people with
disabilities need a guardian,and it's starting to say people
with disabilities are competentand like everybody need help and
(14:39):
support.
And so and so tell me about thisperson individually, what works,
and what doesn't work.
So let's dive in a little bit tothe actual guardianship court
process and what statute says.
So guardianship in Minnesota issplit into seven different
powers.
(15:01):
Of these seven different powers,people are required to choose
only and exactly what a personneeds in decision making rights.
So just for the sake ofclarification, I'm going to list
out the seven different powersand kind of explain what each
power covers.
The first power of guardianshipis determining place of abode,
(15:22):
which is where a person lives.
The second power is care,comfort, and maintenance.
This includes academic servicesand vocational services.
So job and school.
The third power is reasonablecare for personal effects.
This is clothing and furniture.
The belongings that a personhas.
The fourth power of guardianshipis medical or other professional
(15:45):
care.
The fifth power is approving orwithholding of contracts.
The seventh power is supervisoryauthority, knowing who somebody
is spending time with.
And the seventh power isaccessing government benefits.
So these powers are all variousdifferent aspects to a person's
(16:08):
life as far as decision makinggoes.
Note that the powers of decisionmaking for guardianship are
different than the powers ofdecision making for a parent.
So it's different.
And that's worth noting becausea guardian only has the powers
of guardianship that are coveredin the seven different powers.
(16:28):
So sometimes it can getconfusing for parents and for
loved ones and for caregivers ofwhat a guardianship is and what
a guardianship isn't like,what's a parent's responsibility
and what's a guardian'sresponsibility.
So you can always go back to theseven different powers to know
exactly what a person isrequired to give assistance
with.
Now also, guardianship isn'tsomething that is going to
(16:51):
necessarily inherently fix orsolve a lot of the issues that
parents and caregivers wouldimagine that it would or would
hope for it to.
So let's use the for instance ofthe medical or other
professional care power.
So let's say as guardian you areguardian of the medical power.
(17:12):
Now this means that as guardian,you are responsible to set up
any doctor's appointments or anytherapy appointments.
You can manage a person'smedication and the dose of
medication and you can set allthat up.
So that's all the decisionmaking for that medical piece.
Now this doesn't really extendbeyond that.
(17:32):
So you can set up all of thebest therapies and a person can
go and refuse to talk to thetherapist or they can just
refuse to go because peoplestill have those civil and
constitutional rights.
So it doesn't necessarily fixall of the things that people
would think that it would.
You can set up the perfect IEPfor somebody, but a person could
(17:53):
still say, Hey, I don't want tofollow that IEP.
I'm not going to show up toschool.
And so there's littleintricacies and things to
consider and please call us andwe'd be happy to chat with you
through all of these.
But ultimately those are theseven powers of guardianship and
you can imagine them as silos.
So if a person only needs two ofthe powers of guardianship, you
(18:14):
can just pick and choose andfile a petition for only those
two.
Remember that you are notrequired to do a guardianship.
It is not a requirement and it'snot something that has to be
done by any one point.
That's just something reallyimportant to note because it's
something that has come up a lotin calls that I've received
(18:35):
lately.
And now let's talk a little bitabout the rights that people
have under guardianship.
In Minnesota state statute,there is a bill of rights for
people under guardianship.
And this bill of rights includeshuman rights that every person
(18:56):
has, regardless of any level ofguardianship that they have.
So this is everything from, theright to be treated with dignity
and respect, to the right toprivacy, to the right to get
married and procreate.
So the right to get married andhave children isn't impacted at
(19:16):
all by a guardianship process.
Also on that bill of rights isthe right to be treated in a
person-centered way as far asguardianship decisions are
taken.
And what it means to beperson-centered is by giving
somebody real due diligence inwhat they say their desires are
(19:40):
and what their hopes and theirdreams are.
And so as a guardian, it is aperson's responsibility to hear
what a person under guardianshipwants and to do their best to
try to make that a reality.
So if a person wants to say, owna gun, it is the guardian's
(20:00):
responsibility to have aconversation with a person about
what it means to own a gun, whythey want to own a gun, what
they want to do with that, howto be safe in doing that.
And so to really have thatconversation with people and to
really see from the person'spoint of view why they want
(20:20):
that.
And so it is the guardian'sresponsibility to really do due
diligence in looking throughthat request.
Being person-centered alsodoesn't mean that if a person
requests to have something thenyep, okay, absolutely.
Being person-centered meansreally honoring somebody and
their choice and what they wantand hearing them and respecting
(20:43):
that request and then having aconversation about what it would
look like in reality on aday-to-day basis.
And then being able to make thatdecision in a respectful way.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat you have to say yes to that
request.
You know, it may end up beingthat getting a gun just isn't a
really good choice, as a parentmay suggest to their child
(21:04):
regardless.
But being person-centered doesmean being open to the
conversation and really honoringsomebody's desires and hearing
people just like we would allhope from our friends and our
family.
So being person centered againis the duty of a guardian.
And to help people learn how tomake choices moving forward
because everybody has thecapacity to be able to make
(21:26):
choices and to learn.
So that's basically what I want,and what I hope for people who
are listening to this podcasttoday to take away.
Is that guardianship has been aconversation for many, many
years when it comes tosupporting people with
disabilities.
But it's only one option.
And there are other reallywonderful options like
alternatives to guardianship orlimited guardianship if a
(21:49):
guardianship is even needed.
Too often we just assume thatpeople need a guardian and don't
question ourselves into like,why are we assuming that.
You know, some people mayactually need a guardian, people
who have really complex medicalconditions or people that have
really significant needs mayneed a guardian.
(22:11):
But when we look at overall,people with disabilities who
fall into that category ofneeding that level of decision
making, it's pretty minimal.
So get creative in how to helpsomebody making decisions about
living their life because peopleare competent and can make
(22:32):
decisions and do have thecapacity to be able to live
really wonderful lives.
And that's really overall whatthis whole podcast series is
about is how can we empowerpeople to live their own life,
make great choices, be happy,and feel supported by friends
and family.
Right.
And guardianship is just onepart of that.
(22:53):
Now, next week we're going to betalking about successor care and
sibling support, which flowsinto this conversation I think
pretty seamlessly.
So tune in next week for whenwe're going to have that
discussion.
Music (23:13):
[ music playing]
Allycia Wolff (23:14):
And as always, if this episode inspired any
questions from an advocate atThe Arc, please give us a call
at(833) 450-1494.
We are always here to answer anyquestions.
As I mentioned before, we have awebinar on YouTube called
guardianship options and it goesmore into depth into all of the
(23:35):
stuff that I touched on today.
Focus on the Future is a podcastof The Arc Minnesota.
Subscribe to this podcast onyour favorite streaming service
to stay up date with the newestepisodes.
Please give us a review and letus know what you'd like to hear
in the future.
If you're enjoying listening,you can also support the podcast
and our mission by donating atthearcminnesota.
(23:57):
org/podcast.
Our podcast music is composedand recorded by Micah Kadwell.
Micah is a talented guitaristfrom New Brighton, Minnesota who
also has autism.
Thank you, Micah.
Focus on the Future is producedby myself and hosted and is
supported by a team of soundengineers.
(24:18):
Thank you everybody.
Have a great day and we'll talkto you next time.
Music (24:22):
[ music playing]
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