December 15, 2024 • 41 mins
What happens when an automotive engineer becomes a transformative force in healthcare leadership? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Herb Buchanan, the man who transitioned from engineering to become a key figure in healthcare, holding top roles at major health systems and serving as Chair of the National Association of Health Services Executives. Herb shares his insights on the power of diversity in executive leadership and the critical importance of building relationships to drive meaningful change in the industry. Discover how Herb's personal journey and leadership philosophy provide essential lessons for both emerging professionals and seasoned executives.
Discover the pivotal role the National Association of Health Services Executives (NAHSE) plays in nurturing diverse leadership within healthcare. Herb opens up about how NAHSE has empowered individuals through mentorship and networking, unlocking skills like gravitas and presence. As we examine ongoing challenges in health equity and staffing, Herb emphasizes the impact of strategic advocacy and relationship-building. Gain valuable insights into the progress made in diversifying executive roles and the obstacles that remain, setting the stage for candid discussions on the future of leadership in healthcare.
Herb Buchanan's 30-year odyssey in healthcare isn't just about past achievements but also future aspirations. Listen as Herb contemplates his next moves, from mentoring the next generation to potentially venturing into consulting and training. The conversation takes a lighthearted turn as we compare sports allegiances, revealing a friendly rivalry that adds a personal touch to the dialogue. This episode offers a rich tapestry of insights, challenges, and aspirations, promising inspiration and guidance for anyone invested in the future of healthcare leadership.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Follow the Brand.
I am your host, grant McGaughan, ceo of 5 Star BDM, a 5 Star
personal branding and businessdevelopment company.
I want to take you on a journeythat takes another deep dive
into the world of personalbranding and business
(00:21):
development, using compellingpersonal story, business
conversations and tips toimprove your personal brand.
By listening to the Follow theBrand podcast series, you will
be able to differentiateyourself from the competition
and allow you to build trustwith prospective clients and
employers.
(00:41):
You never get a second chanceto make a first impression.
Make it one that will set youapart, build trust and reflect
who you are.
Developing your five-starpersonal brand is a great way to
demonstrate your skills andknowledge.
If you have any questions fromme or my guests, please email me
(01:03):
at.
Grantmcgaw spelledM-C-G-A-U-G-H at 5starbdm B for
brand, d for development, m formasterscom.
Now let's begin with our nextfive-star episode on Follow the
Brand.
Hello everyone, I am GrantMcGaugh, ceo of Five Star BDM,
(01:33):
where we help you to build afive-star brand that people will
follow, and today we are takingyou on a journey from the
nation's capital to the WindyCity, exploring leadership
through the eyes of someonewho's truly lived it.
In healthcare leadership.
We often celebratetransformation and innovation,
(01:55):
but let's not forget the peopledriving those changes, the
leaders who not only achievesuccess, and leaders who not
only achieve success but alsoleave a lasting legacy through
mentorship and authenticrelationships.
That's why I am excited tointroduce you to today's guest,
(02:16):
herb Buchanan.
Herb's story is nothing shortof inspiring.
He began his career as anautomotive Engineer at Chrysler
before transitioning tohealthcare, where he has become
a distinguished executiveCurrently serving as the Chair
of the National Association ofHealth Services Executives.
(02:38):
Herb has held C-Suite roles atacademic medical centers and
major health systems across theMidwest and East Coast.
But here's what makes today'sconversation so special we're
not just talking about titles orcareer milestones.
We are diving deep into theheart of leadership how to build
(03:03):
meaningful relationships inhealthcare, the critical role of
diversity in the C-suite, andwhat it truly takes to create
lasting change in an industrythat impacts everyone's lives.
So, whether you are an emergingprofessional aspiring to, or a
(03:23):
seasoned executive navigatingtoday's complex healthcare
challenges, herb's insights willinspire and guide you.
He's not just a leader.
He's a mentor and a changemakerwith decades of experience
making a real difference.
So get ready for a candid,insightful conversation about
(03:44):
leadership, mentorship and thefuture of healthcare on the
Windy City.
We're talking about thenation's capital as well,
(04:10):
washington DC, the birthplace ofHerb Buchanan.
He's the current chair of theNational Association of Health
Services Executives, right, andhe's also the current or former
CEO in AdventHealth in theNaperville area.
We're going to talk about thatbecause he has a storied history
(04:32):
over time in the C-suiteleadership position and it looks
to me like all over the Midwest.
He has served as well on theEast Coast.
I'm very, very impressed withhis background.
We're going to have a candidconversation about himself,
about senior leadership and howhe sees the landscape going
(04:56):
forward.
So, herb, would you like tointroduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Sure, sure, grant, I'm excited about being here.
As you mentioned, I serve inAHSC, which is a mouthful, you
said, the whole organization.
I appreciate that as chair.
Most recently I was anexecutive in another long name,
university of Chicago Medicine,advent Health, great Lakes
Region, which is a fancy way ofsaying a partnership between
(05:21):
University of Chicago Medicineand AdventHealth, and this is
the AdventHealth headquarteredin Orlando, florida, and so
we've got four hospital systemthat combined with University of
Chicago's main campus downtownand a campus on the south side
of Chicago, and that partnershipformed about two years ago.
So most recently I held anumber of senior executive roles
(05:44):
including, as you mentioned,ceo of Bolingbroke Hospital,
chief Operating Officer for theregion, interim CEO of the
region, lead for Strategy andIntegration.
So a lot of transition.
That's my most recent role.
That partnership is still goingwell, but I left that
organization earlier this year.
But I left that organizationearlier this year.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
This is going to be a great discussion, because
what's top of mind for me isleadership and leadership
pipelines, specifically inhealth care and hospital
operations and IDNs and the like.
You have the purview and theexperience of looking over all
(06:25):
of those different things andhave lived it.
You have a lived experience.
I think that's wonderful.
The first question I want toask you, though, is around your
history how you got into thisbusiness, you know, and what
prepared you to be able tooperate at such a high level
(06:47):
over this amount of time.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, grant, I'm happy to share.
I've got an unusual backgroundfor a health care executive and
I started off as an engineer.
You mentioned Midwest.
I spent my early years inDetroit with Chrysler
Corporation.
So I was an auto engineer andI'm not sure you're going to
find too many of those in theC-suite, but I spent years there
and then three things got meinterested in health care.
One was a desire to contributeto the service industry.
(07:14):
I was always into cars.
Cars were fun, but they weren'tmaking a big contribution to
the community and health careprovided that opportunity.
I just did not have ahealthcare background.
So in order to get into thebusiness, I went to graduate
school Northwestern Universitythat had a healthcare program
and tried to learn as much abouthealthcare as I could.
(07:36):
What attracted me, grant, washealthcare has had many, many
seasons of struggling.
At that point it was revenues,it was payment systems, and I
had the idea that someinnovation, some creativity,
some problem-solving techniqueswould be useful in healthcare
and I could somehow do somecatch-up on the pure healthcare
(07:58):
knowledge.
Because I didn't know anythingabout healthcare, I didn't have
a clinical background, but Iwanted to contribute to the
industry.
I thought it was a wonderfultime to bring some engineering
approaches, some problem solving, some different kinds of
thinking.
I hoped to be a fast learner inthe business and then, finally,
the program I went to, the MBAprogram, was team oriented and I
(08:22):
believe that a team orientedapproach to leadership was one
that was going to be successful.
To work with surgeons, to workwith academic folks, to work
with nurses, techs all of thosepeople you really need a
healthcare team approach as muchas anywhere else, and so we
focused so much on team in allof our instructions, in all of
(08:43):
our case studies, that thatprovided an excellent background
.
So my belief was an engineeringbackground, a team-oriented
approach to leadership, havinghealthcare training on the
academic side at least, and anMBA would be something that I
could use in this industry toadvance.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Let's talk about that .
I've got a lot of people thatcome to me and say, grant, I've
got my MBA, I've got myeducation, but I'm having
trouble breaking into the field.
Or I'm having trouble gettingto that next level.
I'm in management but I'm notin the directorship arm.
(09:27):
I'm trying to get into that VPlevel all those different things
to ascend.
As you look at your career,what were the pivotal moments?
What have you leveraged?
What has been on your side thatgot you we talked about
football earlier got you thatfirst down, it got you that
first win and you're like, wow,I think I can be successful
(09:51):
doing that.
That would be also somethingthat could be beneficial to
someone else listening to theshow.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, grant, you know this well.
You can get all the trainingand all the education you want,
until you get in and startdeveloping productive
relationships, you're not goingto be successful.
And so it was really thatability to form relationships.
And my first job out of the MBAprogram was consulting and I
got to go to a variety ofhospitals community hospitals,
(10:19):
academic centers.
I got to talk to physicians,and physicians will challenge
you.
Nurses will challenge you thefirst time you go into an OR and
they said you're not an MD, howlong have you worked in a
hospital?
And you say, well, I haven't.
They'll challenge you oneverything.
Well, how do you know the ORneeds to be this big?
How do you know about steriletechniques?
And your response is I don't.
(10:39):
What I know is how to listenand how to develop relationships
and how to translate yourexpertise into planning,
operation, strategy, management,engineering, you name it.
So it was really developingthose relationships and as folks
try to progress from earlycareer to mid-career, from
mid-career to the executivesuite, it's those relationships.
(11:01):
Of course, it's this delivery.
You've got to deliver, you'vegot to hit those metrics.
But forming those productiverelationships and there's so
many ways of doing that there'sinternal, where you look for
opportunities within your scopeof interest and outside of your
scope of interest.
It's volunteering for thingsoutside of your formal
responsibilities, having mentorsand sponsors and organizations
(11:26):
that will say oh, we know, grant, he helped us to achieve this,
he helped us to achieve that,he's fun to work with, he gets
things done, he's organized,he's structured.
Those kind of relationshipswill ascend Formal and informal
conversations.
You and I both know that whenyou're outside of the room,
that's when many of thoseconversations are happening.
So if someone is thinking aboutyou, you want those people in
the room to say, oh, I highlyrecommend, I had a good
(11:49):
experience.
Talk to so-and-so.
They will tell you that this isgoing to be a good move for you
.
It's really about relationship.
It's about delivery.
It's about knowing who ismaking those decisions, who the
movers and shakers are, takingopportunities to work with them,
(12:10):
to be on committees with themand demonstrate your worth,
looking for opportunities thataren't comfortable for you,
showing that you're willing togrow and that you can adapt All
of those things.
Mentors and sponsors can betremendous help in that regard,
and so I talk to a lot of peoplewho have hit that, maybe that
(12:33):
hurdle, or just slowed down alittle bit and are trying to get
kickstarted, and typically thesame solutions work.
You know who's in your corner.
What are the opportunities inyour organization?
What haven't you done?
What do you need to do to fillout your resume?
Who do you need to impress?
In some cases, it may even bechanging the organization, but
(12:53):
what can you do in your currentplace to impress folks?
People are looking for problemsolvers.
When you make yourself aproblem solver, you're
attractive to the C-suite.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Well stated, well stated, and the one word that
comes to me, as you just statedthat, and we're going to talk
about your other big passion,which is the National
Association of Health ServiceExecutives, where you serve as
the chair, is gravitas.
When I've met with you and I'vebeen with you, there's a
(13:24):
feeling of gravitas and andgreat humility and then great
depth.
That's what I feel when I'm inyour presence and we've talked
about this association.
A lot of people, some people,aren't even aware still today of
the National Association ofHealth Services.
They've been around 50 plusyears, but some of the most
(13:47):
prominent African-Americanhealthcare executives have been
a part, or still a part, of thisorganization.
It's very, very important andI've taken up as my purpose to
make sure that awareness is nota problem.
It's just a matter of now.
You want to consider being apart of it or you see what you
(14:07):
said even earlier what does itaccomplish?
What is its purpose?
What is it doing?
Talk to us about theorganization and how you feel
that it's going to move forward.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I'm glad you asked that, Brandon.
I've got a mouthful so you tellme when the public breaks a
little bit.
But the things that you startedoff with gravitas, presence,
reputation, all of those things,many of those are the result of
my experiences with theNational Association of Health
Services Executives.
Early in my career I met KevinLofton, who was one of the
(14:40):
biggest names in the business,did the largest faith-based
merger in healthcare history.
He's been a mentor of mine foralmost 30 years.
He introduced me to NAHSE andall of the elements that you
mentioned.
If you are looking tostrengthen any of those, you can
find it within the organization.
(15:00):
The goals of the organization,of course, are to advance people
with diverse backgrounds intoleadership executive roles, to
expand their careers and toaddress health equity issues,
and there's been track record,years and years of success.
I've been fortunate to havedeveloped the things that you
witnessed and that you observedby looking at the leaders in the
(15:23):
organization who have beenthere for decades and decades
and have given back to theorganization.
They've sponsored, they'vementored, they've taught,
they've in the educationalconference, they've done
segments to teach people how todo everything from mergers and
acquisitions to revenue cycle.
You name it, the gamut.
They've expanded to includeentrepreneurs.
(15:45):
So the organization is abouthelping folks give back, achieve
health equity and advance theircareers.
And everything from graduateschool case competition, which
brings graduate students in,gives them opportunities,
teaches them problem-solvingskills, exposes them to
executives, to mid-career folkswho can expand their skills,
(16:07):
find mentors, find opportunities.
The organization also helpsfolks find opportunities.
Search firms are part of theorganization all the way up to
Elevate, which is a uniqueorganization brought together by
senior system executives tohelp the next level or the next
phase of executives ascend tosenior system level positions.
(16:32):
So all the things that youmentioned that folks are looking
for are somehow available,connected to partnering with in
AHSE.
And I tell folks, when I tellthem about the organization,
that a large part of mymentoring, a large part of my
advice, a large part of myopportunities, my friends in the
(16:52):
industry, have come from thisorganization.
Certainly there's AHA, there'sACHE and we want to be inclusive
, but for this organizationtheir values align with values
that many of us have and thepeople there have a family-type
atmosphere where they're willingto give and for folks who are
(17:12):
struggling to find a seniorexecutive who's willing to
invest in them if you can't findin this organization grant, I
don't know where you're going tofind it, because it's just that
kind of atmosphere.
So I became chair because ofyears and years of contributing
to the organization, but alsobecause people developed a trust
(17:34):
in me to get things done, toorganize, to plan for the future
.
From years and years of thempouring into me, of me
demonstrating, of me pouringinto young folks, of judging the
student case competition for 20years.
All of those elements are partand parcel and if this begins to
sound like a commercial for theorganization, Well, it is
(17:55):
because it has done so much forme and for so many others and
will continue to do so, and it'san important priority for me
100%.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I love what you just stated and it's important.
Especially, I love the casecompetition, because that's when
you're seeing people.
What you talked about earlier,you're in engineering,
(18:28):
no-transcript, and that we, thatthe organization has tapped
large schools, ohio State's, theworld, the Big Ten, the Big
Four, the Power Four, but alsoHBCUs.
Exactly, you know that they'renot only just participating,
they're actually placing andbeing considered for top honors
(18:52):
within the program.
So they're competing with thebest of the best.
And then the winners of thoseprograms get to meet with senior
executives of very largeinstitutions like Kaiser
Permanente that you're invitedout.
Going back to what you alsosaid earlier about relationships
, how can you it's called speedto market right, how can you
(19:13):
accelerate your career in anyother way but then, being in the
same room with these seniorleaders who know who you are and
they can advocate for you?
I love how you stated that it'sso important.
I want to change theconversation just a little bit.
I want to address what I callthe elephant in the room.
(19:34):
Say, what is that Now?
Say health equity.
We've said diversity andinclusion and equity, or I don't
know if I put it in the rightsequence but DE&I, we go all the
way back to affirmative action.
I mean, these things havealways kind of cropped up.
They go, they ebb and they flow.
(19:55):
I want you to talk to thoseyounger people.
We just talked about it.
They're like, hey, we'regetting out, we're getting our
experiences, but hey, am I goingto be, you know, not getting an
opportunity because of myculture or who I am.
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Speaker 2 (20:54):
It's a legitimate question and a challenge Grant
and in many ways, as we reflect,we've come a long way.
You mentioned theorganization's over 50 years old
.
When you look at some of themetrics where we started the
metrics from how many C-suitefolks there are, how many CEOs
of major systems, academic CEOsyou name those We've come a long
way.
By the same token, we'restruggling with many of the
(21:16):
challenges that I was seeingwhen I got into this business
more than 30 years ago.
So it's a little bit of both.
We've made advances, we've gotfolks in decision-making
positions.
We're fighting some of the samebattles and the reason why it's
one of the main pillars forNAHSC is because health equity
(21:37):
still has a long way to go andit's facing challenges and we
won't get into a politicaldiscussion this morning.
But clearly, when you look atwhat's on the horizon, there
could be additional challengesto health equity and our
accomplishments.
What the organization is focusedon is partnering with sponsors,
(21:57):
major organizations youmentioned Kaiser, ochsner Health
, upmc to do things together.
We're doing research withMorehouse School of Medicine, so
we're trying to cover the wholelandscape.
Research, of course, drivesdecision-making.
(22:19):
So what's health equityresearch and where are the
largest gaps, how to addressthose, what are the successful
ways of addressing those?
So we've got a research arm.
We also need to partner withorganizations who have a broader
scope, who frankly have moreresources, who have the same
mission and vision, and thenenable our members to
participate in that conversationbut also in action plans, as
(22:47):
long as organizations are stillstruggling with making it a
priority with their board, apriority with their annual goals
, priority with their C-suites,evaluating their C-suite members
on how to advance those needs.
We're well aware in general ofthe community needs.
Where we struggle, of course,is effective solutions to
(23:08):
address those.
We'd like to be a clearinghouseis effective solutions to
address those.
We'd like to be a clearinghouse.
We'd like to be the place thatAHA, ache you name the
organization comes and says onewhere do we find information?
Where do we find people who areinterested in impacting this
and how do we partner?
And we need to build on that.
That's been our goal for sometime.
(23:29):
We need to get better andbetter at that, and developing
partnerships will help us inthat regard.
But for young folks who areinterested in health equity, you
got to find out where yourorganization is, because many,
as I've seen the last few yearshave stated it and haven't been
serious about it.
So don't get discouraged.
That may not be the case.
(23:49):
Some have made appropriateinvestments, some need to do
more.
And then where in the industrycan you find other opportunities
?
Certainly with our organizationwe're working on that, possibly
with an ACHE and others, butlike-minded folks it's always
(24:11):
good to be around like-mindedfolks when you're trying to
tackle a big problem, whenyou're trying to find solutions.
I believe at every annualeducational conference and
probably our CEO suite C-suiteconversation as well, we have
folks who come in and talk abouthealth equity and what things
they have done.
So I certainly encourage folksto get involved with our
organization and find out whatthe opportunities are.
(24:33):
But in the field, you know backat home it continues to be a
challenge and I can't name awhole lot of organizations that
I would say are the benchmarkfor achieving.
We've been talking about thisfor a long, long time.
When they're in problems inhealthcare that you're not
making a significant dent in itwould indicate that they haven't
(24:54):
been the level of prioritiesthat we thought they were and we
have to impact that as well.
So getting our folks on boards,getting them into the C-suite
you mentioned earlier.
Having that voice is soimportant and that's what drives
organizations.
When Kevin and Lloyd put thecommon spirit merger together,
health equity was on the agenda.
(25:15):
When Gene and Skogsberg putAtrium Advocate together, health
equity was on the agenda and asignificant investment.
That's how it gets done.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
That's how we get.
We have to do that, and I wantto change the conversation just
a little bit, because this is soimportant, because these are
what I call C-suite discussions.
Talk to me as if I am thechairman of the board of a major
health system and you are myCEO, and I'm going to ask you
(25:51):
what are the major challenges inhealthcare as far as trends,
topics, situations, challengesthat I may not be aware of?
That I would ask you to address.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Oh, my goodness, there's a long list.
There's a long list.
Certainly health equity, and wewould assume that they're aware
of that.
They may not know the gravityor they may not know the lack of
progress.
So health equity, of course,comes up early on.
Staffing is one, particularlyfor boards, grant, that I don't
think people really appreciate.
All the projections for nurses,for techs, for physicians, for
(26:28):
just about every position in ourbusiness, all the projections
say that we're not going to havenearly enough resources to
match the demand.
And as more and more babyboomers, gen Xs, age into the
area where they need more healthcare, we're not going to have
enough folks to provide the care, to provide the care.
(26:55):
So, whether it's nursingschools, medical schools,
finding people just to provideservices is a challenge today
and that's only going to getmore difficult and you have to
stay ahead of that.
So what are the strategies withschools, with communities?
It's one of those challenges,grant, where when you go to a
city and you find a significantunemployment rate and then you
go to the healthcare sector andthere's a significant deficit
and you're thinking why isn'tthis coming together?
(27:18):
And programs that start asearly as grade school, middle
school, that introduce folks tohealthcare and tell them you
know if you're a nurse you canfind a job anywhere on the
planet.
You should never be unemployedas a nurse.
Similarly, for techs,physicians are opting out.
In many cases it's a lot harderto deliver services than it
(27:40):
used to be, so ensuring thatwe've got resources.
I don't think boards have afull appreciation that this is a
problem that has to be solvedand it has to be solved in
partnerships with communities,with schools, with universities,
graduate programs as well asthose I would say.
Continuity of leadership theC-suite is turning over so
(28:04):
rapidly.
I think the average tenure fora CEO now is three years or less
.
Match that up with thebenchmark in the industry.
It takes a couple of years tolearn a culture and really
understand how to move it.
You can come in with your100-day plan or your first
quarter plan or whatever.
That's well and good, but tolearn how an organization works,
(28:27):
to develop board relationships,community relationships that
are productive, it takes twoyears.
So if your tenure on average isthree years and it takes you
two years to start making a mark, that's not a good plan.
So for boards, continuity andin some cases it's because
boards and ownership andleadership is changing.
(28:48):
In some cases it's peoplemoving on.
But stronger retention approachis to keep people on board.
Anyone who has ever drafted andtried to execute a strategy,
even outside of healthcare,knows you got to have a
consistent team to get those.
You can't hit the reset buttonevery 18 months, every two years
.
So continuity of a team.
Organizations that have beensuccessful the Cleveland clinics
(29:11):
, the Mayo clinics, adventhealthhave been able to get a cadre
of leaders and hold on to them.
So as they develop and refinetheir strategies, they have some
consistency.
Organizations, even the Fortune100s, that have a new CEO every
couple of years.
Their performance is like thisbecause you have to reset and
(29:33):
people are going to follow theC-suite, um board is going to
follow the C-suite, competitorsare going to pay attention to
the C-suite and if you'reconstantly having to reset and
the CEO doesn't want to come inand say, well, what did my
predecessor do, let's do that,they're going to come in with
their own agenda and so askingthe leaders in the organization
to reset consistently is asignificant problem.
(29:56):
So, again, I could go on and onabout this, but there are
things like medical records, useof artificial intelligence that
really need to be figured out.
They have tremendous potential.
We have to figure out how tochannel that into the most
productive, because we needefficiencies.
One of the retention issues Imentioned earlier can be
(30:18):
addressed by efficiencies in theorganization.
So, capacity for resources, insome cases, capacity for beds
and outpatient services.
There's one I don't want tofail to mention, and that's
competition, um, there's.
There's one I don't want tofail to mention and that's
competition.
Um, so many people, privateequities, getting into the
(30:38):
business, Walmart, uh, amazon,everybody wants to get into
healthcare.
Everybody doesn't understandthe complexity of healthcare and
we've seen major organizationsjump in, spend billions of
dollars and get out because, oh,this is tough.
Yes, yeah, we, we is tough.
Yes, yeah, we knew that.
But the competition of coursemakes it so much more difficult
(30:59):
and one of the reasons why yousee so many hospitals joining
systems is because of thecompetition and to access
resources or technology theyneed the support of the bigger
systems.
But now we're just trying tofigure that out.
So we talked about a mergeratrium and advocate years ago.
(31:20):
That's Carolina, chicago,wisconsin.
Healthcare generally is thoughtof as local, so they've got to
figure out a strategy to makethat make sense.
They can pool their resourcesto do technology, pool their
resources to do supply chain,pool their resources to do
health equity.
How do you make those regionswork as one get best practices,
(31:44):
et cetera, et cetera, becausethere's an appetite for mergers.
The mergers just have to makesense.
That is a lot.
Yeah, it is a lot.
It is a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Spresley is a board member.
How do you compete?
We talked about this earlier.
It's an analogy that we pulltogether our plans, we're a good
team and we're going to face anopponent to win the game.
We've done our assessment andwill figure out.
(32:16):
You know what we can do this,this and this and we should
leverage our strengths againsttheir weaknesses and we'll be
able to go ahead and score andscore at will.
That's the thinking right,right, right.
However, you underestimatewhat's on the other side of the
ball.
You just mentioned about thesemajor corporations and they got
(32:37):
into the healthcare realm andthey had a great plan.
They were throwing a bunch ofmoney around and they got their
butt kicked because theyunderestimated the true problems
that were occurring within thesystem of healthcare.
And it's not as easy as itlooks.
There's a lot of complexities.
You've worked on the providerpart of that world, remember.
(33:00):
There's payers involved,there's government involved,
there's all kinds of otherthings that you don't have
complete control over.
That can then upset yourstrategy and your plan and you
get a different result.
Very, very important.
Before we get out of here, Iwant to ask you this what's next
(33:20):
for Herb Buchanan?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Excellent question.
Excellent question.
I mentioned I may haveundersold this a bit I got into
healthcare to change theindustry and as a young person
that seems like a reasonablegoal, a person my age maybe not
so much, but I mentioned thethings earlier that drove me
there.
I really got in to reshape theindustry for delivery.
(33:45):
I don't mean just delivery inthe sense of going to the
hospital, but all the aspectsthat you mentioned making it all
work hospital, but all theaspects that you mentioned
making it all work.
Healthcare has to work for thecommunity.
It has to work for the nation.
So, whether they're revenueissues, whether they're issues
whether doctors are gettingalong, healthcare has to be
available to the community inways that they can access it, in
(34:09):
ways that they can improve thehealth.
So I got in more than 30 yearsago to reshape the industry.
I will say candidly, I've notbeen successful in doing that,
but I continue to look for waysof doing that.
At this point there's so manyavenues open to you.
The traditional route that I'vetaken I did academic medicine
(34:31):
for a while, I did leadership atthe system level you can
continue to go that route.
But there's so many otherthings.
There's consulting, there'sresearch, there are graduate
programs who need training,there are more opportunities
within NAHSC to contribute.
So I don't want to be evasivewith my answer.
(34:53):
I certainly want to continue toimpact the industry.
I want to reshape whateversolutions need to be brought to
bear, being innovative, beingcreative and maybe most
importantly, help train, developand advance the next level of
leaders.
I learned, fortunately early inthe career, it's important for
(35:17):
the industry and for the variousorganizations to have that
cadre of leaders.
That helps with the continuity,it helps with accessing those
resources, and so that's one ofmy main priorities.
How do I continue to contribute?
I can do it through NAHSC.
I can hopefully do it throughother organizations.
I mentor a number of folks, butyou can see from the gray beard
(35:40):
, the gray hair, that I need tobe focusing on making sure that
next level of leaders isprepared and has every
opportunity to succeed.
I need them to do more thanI've ever done in this business
in advance, and you know as wellas I do there's nothing that
makes you more proud than seeingsomeone you met or mentored or
(36:02):
sponsored move up in thebusiness beyond you.
I used to tell folks early onone day I'll be working for you
and, of course, they laugh atyou and say you're being silly,
but there's no prouder momentthan to see someone ascend to a
position where, literally, youcould be looking to them for an
opportunity.
So I would say that's the mostimportant thing to me, grant, is
(36:24):
to make sure that there areleaders who have an opportunity,
that are trained, that have allthe skills we talked about
early, that have network,gravitas, team-oriented
leadership, reputations,sponsors, people who are talking
well of them even when they'renot in the room.
That's the most important thingto me, and everything I've done
(36:48):
so far has provided me withthat opportunity.
Once you have that credibility,then people come to you and
they want to talk about what didyou do?
How did you do it?
How can I do it?
I don't think there's anythingI enjoy more than making that
contribution.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Well, you made a significant contribution through
your tenure, what you've done.
As you look back on yourjourney, it's been wonderful.
I thank you for being thatperson in the room when I wasn't
in the room and that you werehelping to make the decisions
that we can get better patientoutcomes for our community, and
(37:26):
we want to continue to havevoices like that available to us
in all the different boardroomsthat are in America in health
care.
I have just one more quickquestion because it's on my mind
and because you're from DC andthat you've lived in Chicago and
you mentioned a little bitabout Detroit and I'm not sure
if you're into college footballor the NFL, but are you a
(37:47):
Commanders fan?
Are you a Bears fan?
Are you a Lions fan?
Talk to me about that.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Are you a Bears fan?
Are you a Lions fan?
Talk to me about that.
Well, let's deviate just everso slightly and say I'm a
diehard Wolverine.
Oh, there we go.
While this isn't a good yearfor us, we're on the heels 2024
National Championship, so we'llhang our hat on that.
As far as professional football, this is a rough time to be a
Bears fan.
(38:13):
I always try to support thehome team.
I'm a big fan of the Commandersand what they're trying to do.
Their new quarterback isdynamic and I'm looking forward
to seeing him in advance.
My son is a diehard Commandersfan, so I'll go with the
Commanders Next year.
Our conference is in Pittsburgh, so a shout out to Pittsburgh.
And I'm a big fan of MikeTomlin and hopefully we may get
(38:36):
him to make an appearance.
So, um, I don't want to evadethe answer.
I'll certainly say I'msupporting the commanders, um,
with their new approach newquarterback, new new coach, all
of those things and hoping thatCaleb Williams and the bears can
turn things around.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, I'm just going to tee off on that Steelers,
because I'm a big-time Steelersfan.
That is my favorite team.
I do have love for the Dolphins, but when it comes to NFL I
love the Steelers and collegefootball.
I am from Omaha, Nebraska a fewpeople like that.
I am still a diehardCornelisker fan.
I know we've fallen off themark, but hey, we're back in the
bowl game.
We're on our way, baby, we'regoing to be there, we're going
(39:15):
to compete in the Big Ten,hopefully play these Michigan
Wolverines at some point in time.
So, Herb, tell us how tocontact you, what is the best
possible way, and then we'regoing to wish you a happy
holiday.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Sounds good, sounds good, so two ways.
I text a lot and so I'll give.
If that's okay, I can givemyself a number 312-890-8757.
And also email.
The email is hcbuchanan,b-u-c-h-a-n-a-n.
209 at icloudcom and I enjoycommunicating, so I'm always
(39:54):
welcoming folks to reach out tome for personal questions, for
organizational questions, forconnections, whatever will
benefit them.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I love it, I love it and this is what I do.
I've been doing this late andI'm going to ask you this
because it's real timeTestimonials how did you feel
about the interview you just didon the Follow Brand Show?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I feel wonderful about it.
First of all, the host isspectacular.
He makes me feel like I'm onone of my favorite podcasts.
I really enjoyed it.
The questions are insightful,they're relevant to the audience
.
They get us going to talk aboutthe things that we need to
share with folks, so I enjoyedthe podcast.
I would do this over and overagain.
(40:36):
Even if we just talk sports, Iwould do this.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Well, we might have to do that definitely in 2025.
I want to invite your entireaudience and your entire family
to tune in to all the episodesof Follow Brand.
You can do so at the numberfive.
That's five-star.
Bdm, that's B for Brand, d fordevelopment and for masterscom.
This has been wonderful and Ilook forward to talking to you
again, my friend.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Thanks a lot, Grant.
Happy holidays to you.
Enjoy and go Cornhuskers, Ilove go Big Red.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Thanks for joining us on the Fall of Red podcast.
Big thanks to Full EffectProductions for their incredible
support on each and everyepisode.
Now the journey continues onour YouTube channel Follow Brand
TV Series.
Dive into exclusive interviews,extended content and bonus
insights that will fuel yoursuccess.
(41:27):
Subscribe now and be a part ofour growing community sharing
and learning together.
Explore, engage and elevate atFollow Brand TV Series on
YouTube.
Stay connected, stay inspired.
Till next time.
We will continue building afive-star brand that you can
follow.
Welcome to another episode of Follow the Brand.
I am your host, grant McGaughan, ceo of 5 Star BDM, a 5 Star
personal branding and businessdevelopment company.
I want to take you on a journeythat takes another deep dive
into the world of personalbranding and business
(00:21):
development, using compellingpersonal story, business
conversations and tips toimprove your personal brand.
By listening to the Follow theBrand podcast series, you will
be able to differentiateyourself from the competition
and allow you to build trustwith prospective clients and
employers.
(00:41):
You never get a second chanceto make a first impression.
Make it one that will set youapart, build trust and reflect
who you are.
Developing your five-starpersonal brand is a great way to
demonstrate your skills andknowledge.
If you have any questions fromme or my guests, please email me
(01:03):
at.
Grantmcgaw spelledM-C-G-A-U-G-H at 5starbdm B for
brand, d for development, m formasterscom.
Now let's begin with our nextfive-star episode on Follow the
Brand.
Hello everyone, I am GrantMcGaugh, ceo of Five Star BDM,
(01:33):
where we help you to build afive-star brand that people will
follow, and today we are takingyou on a journey from the
nation's capital to the WindyCity, exploring leadership
through the eyes of someonewho's truly lived it.
In healthcare leadership.
We often celebratetransformation and innovation,
(01:55):
but let's not forget the peopledriving those changes, the
leaders who not only achievesuccess, and leaders who not
only achieve success but alsoleave a lasting legacy through
mentorship and authenticrelationships.
That's why I am excited tointroduce you to today's guest,
(02:16):
herb Buchanan.
Herb's story is nothing shortof inspiring.
He began his career as anautomotive Engineer at Chrysler
before transitioning tohealthcare, where he has become
a distinguished executiveCurrently serving as the Chair
of the National Association ofHealth Services Executives.
(02:38):
Herb has held C-Suite roles atacademic medical centers and
major health systems across theMidwest and East Coast.
But here's what makes today'sconversation so special we're
not just talking about titles orcareer milestones.
We are diving deep into theheart of leadership how to build
(03:03):
meaningful relationships inhealthcare, the critical role of
diversity in the C-suite, andwhat it truly takes to create
lasting change in an industrythat impacts everyone's lives.
So, whether you are an emergingprofessional aspiring to, or a
(03:23):
seasoned executive navigatingtoday's complex healthcare
challenges, herb's insights willinspire and guide you.
He's not just a leader.
He's a mentor and a changemakerwith decades of experience
making a real difference.
So get ready for a candid,insightful conversation about
(03:44):
leadership, mentorship and thefuture of healthcare on the
Windy City.
We're talking about thenation's capital as well,
(04:10):
washington DC, the birthplace ofHerb Buchanan.
He's the current chair of theNational Association of Health
Services Executives, right, andhe's also the current or former
CEO in AdventHealth in theNaperville area.
We're going to talk about thatbecause he has a storied history
(04:32):
over time in the C-suiteleadership position and it looks
to me like all over the Midwest.
He has served as well on theEast Coast.
I'm very, very impressed withhis background.
We're going to have a candidconversation about himself,
about senior leadership and howhe sees the landscape going
(04:56):
forward.
So, herb, would you like tointroduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Sure, sure, grant, I'm excited about being here.
As you mentioned, I serve inAHSC, which is a mouthful, you
said, the whole organization.
I appreciate that as chair.
Most recently I was anexecutive in another long name,
university of Chicago Medicine,advent Health, great Lakes
Region, which is a fancy way ofsaying a partnership between
(05:21):
University of Chicago Medicineand AdventHealth, and this is
the AdventHealth headquarteredin Orlando, florida, and so
we've got four hospital systemthat combined with University of
Chicago's main campus downtownand a campus on the south side
of Chicago, and that partnershipformed about two years ago.
So most recently I held anumber of senior executive roles
(05:44):
including, as you mentioned,ceo of Bolingbroke Hospital,
chief Operating Officer for theregion, interim CEO of the
region, lead for Strategy andIntegration.
So a lot of transition.
That's my most recent role.
That partnership is still goingwell, but I left that
organization earlier this year.
But I left that organizationearlier this year.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
This is going to be a great discussion, because
what's top of mind for me isleadership and leadership
pipelines, specifically inhealth care and hospital
operations and IDNs and the like.
You have the purview and theexperience of looking over all
(06:25):
of those different things andhave lived it.
You have a lived experience.
I think that's wonderful.
The first question I want toask you, though, is around your
history how you got into thisbusiness, you know, and what
prepared you to be able tooperate at such a high level
(06:47):
over this amount of time.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, grant, I'm happy to share.
I've got an unusual backgroundfor a health care executive and
I started off as an engineer.
You mentioned Midwest.
I spent my early years inDetroit with Chrysler
Corporation.
So I was an auto engineer andI'm not sure you're going to
find too many of those in theC-suite, but I spent years there
and then three things got meinterested in health care.
One was a desire to contributeto the service industry.
(07:14):
I was always into cars.
Cars were fun, but they weren'tmaking a big contribution to
the community and health careprovided that opportunity.
I just did not have ahealthcare background.
So in order to get into thebusiness, I went to graduate
school Northwestern Universitythat had a healthcare program
and tried to learn as much abouthealthcare as I could.
(07:36):
What attracted me, grant, washealthcare has had many, many
seasons of struggling.
At that point it was revenues,it was payment systems, and I
had the idea that someinnovation, some creativity,
some problem-solving techniqueswould be useful in healthcare
and I could somehow do somecatch-up on the pure healthcare
(07:58):
knowledge.
Because I didn't know anythingabout healthcare, I didn't have
a clinical background, but Iwanted to contribute to the
industry.
I thought it was a wonderfultime to bring some engineering
approaches, some problem solving, some different kinds of
thinking.
I hoped to be a fast learner inthe business and then, finally,
the program I went to, the MBAprogram, was team oriented and I
(08:22):
believe that a team orientedapproach to leadership was one
that was going to be successful.
To work with surgeons, to workwith academic folks, to work
with nurses, techs all of thosepeople you really need a
healthcare team approach as muchas anywhere else, and so we
focused so much on team in allof our instructions, in all of
(08:43):
our case studies, that thatprovided an excellent background
.
So my belief was an engineeringbackground, a team-oriented
approach to leadership, havinghealthcare training on the
academic side at least, and anMBA would be something that I
could use in this industry toadvance.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Let's talk about that .
I've got a lot of people thatcome to me and say, grant, I've
got my MBA, I've got myeducation, but I'm having
trouble breaking into the field.
Or I'm having trouble gettingto that next level.
I'm in management but I'm notin the directorship arm.
(09:27):
I'm trying to get into that VPlevel all those different things
to ascend.
As you look at your career,what were the pivotal moments?
What have you leveraged?
What has been on your side thatgot you we talked about
football earlier got you thatfirst down, it got you that
first win and you're like, wow,I think I can be successful
(09:51):
doing that.
That would be also somethingthat could be beneficial to
someone else listening to theshow.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, grant, you know this well.
You can get all the trainingand all the education you want,
until you get in and startdeveloping productive
relationships, you're not goingto be successful.
And so it was really thatability to form relationships.
And my first job out of the MBAprogram was consulting and I
got to go to a variety ofhospitals community hospitals,
(10:19):
academic centers.
I got to talk to physicians,and physicians will challenge
you.
Nurses will challenge you thefirst time you go into an OR and
they said you're not an MD, howlong have you worked in a
hospital?
And you say, well, I haven't.
They'll challenge you oneverything.
Well, how do you know the ORneeds to be this big?
How do you know about steriletechniques?
And your response is I don't.
(10:39):
What I know is how to listenand how to develop relationships
and how to translate yourexpertise into planning,
operation, strategy, management,engineering, you name it.
So it was really developingthose relationships and as folks
try to progress from earlycareer to mid-career, from
mid-career to the executivesuite, it's those relationships.
(11:01):
Of course, it's this delivery.
You've got to deliver, you'vegot to hit those metrics.
But forming those productiverelationships and there's so
many ways of doing that there'sinternal, where you look for
opportunities within your scopeof interest and outside of your
scope of interest.
It's volunteering for thingsoutside of your formal
responsibilities, having mentorsand sponsors and organizations
(11:26):
that will say oh, we know, grant, he helped us to achieve this,
he helped us to achieve that,he's fun to work with, he gets
things done, he's organized,he's structured.
Those kind of relationshipswill ascend Formal and informal
conversations.
You and I both know that whenyou're outside of the room,
that's when many of thoseconversations are happening.
So if someone is thinking aboutyou, you want those people in
the room to say, oh, I highlyrecommend, I had a good
(11:49):
experience.
Talk to so-and-so.
They will tell you that this isgoing to be a good move for you
.
It's really about relationship.
It's about delivery.
It's about knowing who ismaking those decisions, who the
movers and shakers are, takingopportunities to work with them,
(12:10):
to be on committees with themand demonstrate your worth,
looking for opportunities thataren't comfortable for you,
showing that you're willing togrow and that you can adapt All
of those things.
Mentors and sponsors can betremendous help in that regard,
and so I talk to a lot of peoplewho have hit that, maybe that
(12:33):
hurdle, or just slowed down alittle bit and are trying to get
kickstarted, and typically thesame solutions work.
You know who's in your corner.
What are the opportunities inyour organization?
What haven't you done?
What do you need to do to fillout your resume?
Who do you need to impress?
In some cases, it may even bechanging the organization, but
(12:53):
what can you do in your currentplace to impress folks?
People are looking for problemsolvers.
When you make yourself aproblem solver, you're
attractive to the C-suite.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Well stated, well stated, and the one word that
comes to me, as you just statedthat, and we're going to talk
about your other big passion,which is the National
Association of Health ServiceExecutives, where you serve as
the chair, is gravitas.
When I've met with you and I'vebeen with you, there's a
(13:24):
feeling of gravitas and andgreat humility and then great
depth.
That's what I feel when I'm inyour presence and we've talked
about this association.
A lot of people, some people,aren't even aware still today of
the National Association ofHealth Services.
They've been around 50 plusyears, but some of the most
(13:47):
prominent African-Americanhealthcare executives have been
a part, or still a part, of thisorganization.
It's very, very important andI've taken up as my purpose to
make sure that awareness is nota problem.
It's just a matter of now.
You want to consider being apart of it or you see what you
(14:07):
said even earlier what does itaccomplish?
What is its purpose?
What is it doing?
Talk to us about theorganization and how you feel
that it's going to move forward.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I'm glad you asked that, Brandon.
I've got a mouthful so you tellme when the public breaks a
little bit.
But the things that you startedoff with gravitas, presence,
reputation, all of those things,many of those are the result of
my experiences with theNational Association of Health
Services Executives.
Early in my career I met KevinLofton, who was one of the
(14:40):
biggest names in the business,did the largest faith-based
merger in healthcare history.
He's been a mentor of mine foralmost 30 years.
He introduced me to NAHSE andall of the elements that you
mentioned.
If you are looking tostrengthen any of those, you can
find it within the organization.
(15:00):
The goals of the organization,of course, are to advance people
with diverse backgrounds intoleadership executive roles, to
expand their careers and toaddress health equity issues,
and there's been track record,years and years of success.
I've been fortunate to havedeveloped the things that you
witnessed and that you observedby looking at the leaders in the
(15:23):
organization who have beenthere for decades and decades
and have given back to theorganization.
They've sponsored, they'vementored, they've taught,
they've in the educationalconference, they've done
segments to teach people how todo everything from mergers and
acquisitions to revenue cycle.
You name it, the gamut.
They've expanded to includeentrepreneurs.
(15:45):
So the organization is abouthelping folks give back, achieve
health equity and advance theircareers.
And everything from graduateschool case competition, which
brings graduate students in,gives them opportunities,
teaches them problem-solvingskills, exposes them to
executives, to mid-career folkswho can expand their skills,
(16:07):
find mentors, find opportunities.
The organization also helpsfolks find opportunities.
Search firms are part of theorganization all the way up to
Elevate, which is a uniqueorganization brought together by
senior system executives tohelp the next level or the next
phase of executives ascend tosenior system level positions.
(16:32):
So all the things that youmentioned that folks are looking
for are somehow available,connected to partnering with in
AHSE.
And I tell folks, when I tellthem about the organization,
that a large part of mymentoring, a large part of my
advice, a large part of myopportunities, my friends in the
(16:52):
industry, have come from thisorganization.
Certainly there's AHA, there'sACHE and we want to be inclusive
, but for this organizationtheir values align with values
that many of us have and thepeople there have a family-type
atmosphere where they're willingto give and for folks who are
(17:12):
struggling to find a seniorexecutive who's willing to
invest in them if you can't findin this organization grant, I
don't know where you're going tofind it, because it's just that
kind of atmosphere.
So I became chair because ofyears and years of contributing
to the organization, but alsobecause people developed a trust
(17:34):
in me to get things done, toorganize, to plan for the future
.
From years and years of thempouring into me, of me
demonstrating, of me pouringinto young folks, of judging the
student case competition for 20years.
All of those elements are partand parcel and if this begins to
sound like a commercial for theorganization, Well, it is
(17:55):
because it has done so much forme and for so many others and
will continue to do so, and it'san important priority for me
100%.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I love what you just stated and it's important.
Especially, I love the casecompetition, because that's when
you're seeing people.
What you talked about earlier,you're in engineering,
(18:28):
no-transcript, and that we, thatthe organization has tapped
large schools, ohio State's, theworld, the Big Ten, the Big
Four, the Power Four, but alsoHBCUs.
Exactly, you know that they'renot only just participating,
they're actually placing andbeing considered for top honors
(18:52):
within the program.
So they're competing with thebest of the best.
And then the winners of thoseprograms get to meet with senior
executives of very largeinstitutions like Kaiser
Permanente that you're invitedout.
Going back to what you alsosaid earlier about relationships
, how can you it's called speedto market right, how can you
(19:13):
accelerate your career in anyother way but then, being in the
same room with these seniorleaders who know who you are and
they can advocate for you?
I love how you stated that it'sso important.
I want to change theconversation just a little bit.
I want to address what I callthe elephant in the room.
(19:34):
Say, what is that Now?
Say health equity.
We've said diversity andinclusion and equity, or I don't
know if I put it in the rightsequence but DE&I, we go all the
way back to affirmative action.
I mean, these things havealways kind of cropped up.
They go, they ebb and they flow.
(19:55):
I want you to talk to thoseyounger people.
We just talked about it.
They're like, hey, we'regetting out, we're getting our
experiences, but hey, am I goingto be, you know, not getting an
opportunity because of myculture or who I am.
Talk to those people that havethose questions, ready to
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(20:16):
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Speaker 2 (20:54):
It's a legitimate question and a challenge Grant
and in many ways, as we reflect,we've come a long way.
You mentioned theorganization's over 50 years old
.
When you look at some of themetrics where we started the
metrics from how many C-suitefolks there are, how many CEOs
of major systems, academic CEOsyou name those We've come a long
way.
By the same token, we'restruggling with many of the
(21:16):
challenges that I was seeingwhen I got into this business
more than 30 years ago.
So it's a little bit of both.
We've made advances, we've gotfolks in decision-making
positions.
We're fighting some of the samebattles and the reason why it's
one of the main pillars forNAHSC is because health equity
(21:37):
still has a long way to go andit's facing challenges and we
won't get into a politicaldiscussion this morning.
But clearly, when you look atwhat's on the horizon, there
could be additional challengesto health equity and our
accomplishments.
What the organization is focusedon is partnering with sponsors,
(21:57):
major organizations youmentioned Kaiser, ochsner Health
, upmc to do things together.
We're doing research withMorehouse School of Medicine, so
we're trying to cover the wholelandscape.
Research, of course, drivesdecision-making.
(22:19):
So what's health equityresearch and where are the
largest gaps, how to addressthose, what are the successful
ways of addressing those?
So we've got a research arm.
We also need to partner withorganizations who have a broader
scope, who frankly have moreresources, who have the same
mission and vision, and thenenable our members to
participate in that conversationbut also in action plans, as
(22:47):
long as organizations are stillstruggling with making it a
priority with their board, apriority with their annual goals
, priority with their C-suites,evaluating their C-suite members
on how to advance those needs.
We're well aware in general ofthe community needs.
Where we struggle, of course,is effective solutions to
(23:08):
address those.
We'd like to be a clearinghouseis effective solutions to
address those.
We'd like to be a clearinghouse.
We'd like to be the place thatAHA, ache you name the
organization comes and says onewhere do we find information?
Where do we find people who areinterested in impacting this
and how do we partner?
And we need to build on that.
That's been our goal for sometime.
(23:29):
We need to get better andbetter at that, and developing
partnerships will help us inthat regard.
But for young folks who areinterested in health equity, you
got to find out where yourorganization is, because many,
as I've seen the last few yearshave stated it and haven't been
serious about it.
So don't get discouraged.
That may not be the case.
(23:49):
Some have made appropriateinvestments, some need to do
more.
And then where in the industrycan you find other opportunities
?
Certainly with our organizationwe're working on that, possibly
with an ACHE and others, butlike-minded folks it's always
(24:11):
good to be around like-mindedfolks when you're trying to
tackle a big problem, whenyou're trying to find solutions.
I believe at every annualeducational conference and
probably our CEO suite C-suiteconversation as well, we have
folks who come in and talk abouthealth equity and what things
they have done.
So I certainly encourage folksto get involved with our
organization and find out whatthe opportunities are.
(24:33):
But in the field, you know backat home it continues to be a
challenge and I can't name awhole lot of organizations that
I would say are the benchmarkfor achieving.
We've been talking about thisfor a long, long time.
When they're in problems inhealthcare that you're not
making a significant dent in itwould indicate that they haven't
(24:54):
been the level of prioritiesthat we thought they were and we
have to impact that as well.
So getting our folks on boards,getting them into the C-suite
you mentioned earlier.
Having that voice is soimportant and that's what drives
organizations.
When Kevin and Lloyd put thecommon spirit merger together,
health equity was on the agenda.
(25:15):
When Gene and Skogsberg putAtrium Advocate together, health
equity was on the agenda and asignificant investment.
That's how it gets done.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
That's how we get.
We have to do that, and I wantto change the conversation just
a little bit, because this is soimportant, because these are
what I call C-suite discussions.
Talk to me as if I am thechairman of the board of a major
health system and you are myCEO, and I'm going to ask you
(25:51):
what are the major challenges inhealthcare as far as trends,
topics, situations, challengesthat I may not be aware of?
That I would ask you to address.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Oh, my goodness, there's a long list.
There's a long list.
Certainly health equity, and wewould assume that they're aware
of that.
They may not know the gravityor they may not know the lack of
progress.
So health equity, of course,comes up early on.
Staffing is one, particularlyfor boards, grant, that I don't
think people really appreciate.
All the projections for nurses,for techs, for physicians, for
(26:28):
just about every position in ourbusiness, all the projections
say that we're not going to havenearly enough resources to
match the demand.
And as more and more babyboomers, gen Xs, age into the
area where they need more healthcare, we're not going to have
enough folks to provide the care, to provide the care.
(26:55):
So, whether it's nursingschools, medical schools,
finding people just to provideservices is a challenge today
and that's only going to getmore difficult and you have to
stay ahead of that.
So what are the strategies withschools, with communities?
It's one of those challenges,grant, where when you go to a
city and you find a significantunemployment rate and then you
go to the healthcare sector andthere's a significant deficit
and you're thinking why isn'tthis coming together?
(27:18):
And programs that start asearly as grade school, middle
school, that introduce folks tohealthcare and tell them you
know if you're a nurse you canfind a job anywhere on the
planet.
You should never be unemployedas a nurse.
Similarly, for techs,physicians are opting out.
In many cases it's a lot harderto deliver services than it
(27:40):
used to be, so ensuring thatwe've got resources.
I don't think boards have afull appreciation that this is a
problem that has to be solvedand it has to be solved in
partnerships with communities,with schools, with universities,
graduate programs as well asthose I would say.
Continuity of leadership theC-suite is turning over so
(28:04):
rapidly.
I think the average tenure fora CEO now is three years or less
.
Match that up with thebenchmark in the industry.
It takes a couple of years tolearn a culture and really
understand how to move it.
You can come in with your100-day plan or your first
quarter plan or whatever.
That's well and good, but tolearn how an organization works,
(28:27):
to develop board relationships,community relationships that
are productive, it takes twoyears.
So if your tenure on average isthree years and it takes you
two years to start making a mark, that's not a good plan.
So for boards, continuity andin some cases it's because
boards and ownership andleadership is changing.
(28:48):
In some cases it's peoplemoving on.
But stronger retention approachis to keep people on board.
Anyone who has ever drafted andtried to execute a strategy,
even outside of healthcare,knows you got to have a
consistent team to get those.
You can't hit the reset buttonevery 18 months, every two years
.
So continuity of a team.
Organizations that have beensuccessful the Cleveland clinics
(29:11):
, the Mayo clinics, adventhealthhave been able to get a cadre
of leaders and hold on to them.
So as they develop and refinetheir strategies, they have some
consistency.
Organizations, even the Fortune100s, that have a new CEO every
couple of years.
Their performance is like thisbecause you have to reset and
(29:33):
people are going to follow theC-suite, um board is going to
follow the C-suite, competitorsare going to pay attention to
the C-suite and if you'reconstantly having to reset and
the CEO doesn't want to come inand say, well, what did my
predecessor do, let's do that,they're going to come in with
their own agenda and so askingthe leaders in the organization
to reset consistently is asignificant problem.
(29:56):
So, again, I could go on and onabout this, but there are
things like medical records, useof artificial intelligence that
really need to be figured out.
They have tremendous potential.
We have to figure out how tochannel that into the most
productive, because we needefficiencies.
One of the retention issues Imentioned earlier can be
(30:18):
addressed by efficiencies in theorganization.
So, capacity for resources, insome cases, capacity for beds
and outpatient services.
There's one I don't want tofail to mention, and that's
competition, um, there's.
There's one I don't want tofail to mention and that's
competition.
Um, so many people, privateequities, getting into the
(30:38):
business, Walmart, uh, amazon,everybody wants to get into
healthcare.
Everybody doesn't understandthe complexity of healthcare and
we've seen major organizationsjump in, spend billions of
dollars and get out because, oh,this is tough.
Yes, yeah, we, we is tough.
Yes, yeah, we knew that.
But the competition of coursemakes it so much more difficult
(30:59):
and one of the reasons why yousee so many hospitals joining
systems is because of thecompetition and to access
resources or technology theyneed the support of the bigger
systems.
But now we're just trying tofigure that out.
So we talked about a mergeratrium and advocate years ago.
(31:20):
That's Carolina, chicago,wisconsin.
Healthcare generally is thoughtof as local, so they've got to
figure out a strategy to makethat make sense.
They can pool their resourcesto do technology, pool their
resources to do supply chain,pool their resources to do
health equity.
How do you make those regionswork as one get best practices,
(31:44):
et cetera, et cetera, becausethere's an appetite for mergers.
The mergers just have to makesense.
That is a lot.
Yeah, it is a lot.
It is a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Spresley is a board member.
How do you compete?
We talked about this earlier.
It's an analogy that we pulltogether our plans, we're a good
team and we're going to face anopponent to win the game.
We've done our assessment andwill figure out.
(32:16):
You know what we can do this,this and this and we should
leverage our strengths againsttheir weaknesses and we'll be
able to go ahead and score andscore at will.
That's the thinking right,right, right.
However, you underestimatewhat's on the other side of the
ball.
You just mentioned about thesemajor corporations and they got
(32:37):
into the healthcare realm andthey had a great plan.
They were throwing a bunch ofmoney around and they got their
butt kicked because theyunderestimated the true problems
that were occurring within thesystem of healthcare.
And it's not as easy as itlooks.
There's a lot of complexities.
You've worked on the providerpart of that world, remember.
(33:00):
There's payers involved,there's government involved,
there's all kinds of otherthings that you don't have
complete control over.
That can then upset yourstrategy and your plan and you
get a different result.
Very, very important.
Before we get out of here, Iwant to ask you this what's next
(33:20):
for Herb Buchanan?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Excellent question.
Excellent question.
I mentioned I may haveundersold this a bit I got into
healthcare to change theindustry and as a young person
that seems like a reasonablegoal, a person my age maybe not
so much, but I mentioned thethings earlier that drove me
there.
I really got in to reshape theindustry for delivery.
(33:45):
I don't mean just delivery inthe sense of going to the
hospital, but all the aspectsthat you mentioned making it all
work hospital, but all theaspects that you mentioned
making it all work.
Healthcare has to work for thecommunity.
It has to work for the nation.
So, whether they're revenueissues, whether they're issues
whether doctors are gettingalong, healthcare has to be
available to the community inways that they can access it, in
(34:09):
ways that they can improve thehealth.
So I got in more than 30 yearsago to reshape the industry.
I will say candidly, I've notbeen successful in doing that,
but I continue to look for waysof doing that.
At this point there's so manyavenues open to you.
The traditional route that I'vetaken I did academic medicine
(34:31):
for a while, I did leadership atthe system level you can
continue to go that route.
But there's so many otherthings.
There's consulting, there'sresearch, there are graduate
programs who need training,there are more opportunities
within NAHSC to contribute.
So I don't want to be evasivewith my answer.
(34:53):
I certainly want to continue toimpact the industry.
I want to reshape whateversolutions need to be brought to
bear, being innovative, beingcreative and maybe most
importantly, help train, developand advance the next level of
leaders.
I learned, fortunately early inthe career, it's important for
(35:17):
the industry and for the variousorganizations to have that
cadre of leaders.
That helps with the continuity,it helps with accessing those
resources, and so that's one ofmy main priorities.
How do I continue to contribute?
I can do it through NAHSC.
I can hopefully do it throughother organizations.
I mentor a number of folks, butyou can see from the gray beard
(35:40):
, the gray hair, that I need tobe focusing on making sure that
next level of leaders isprepared and has every
opportunity to succeed.
I need them to do more thanI've ever done in this business
in advance, and you know as wellas I do there's nothing that
makes you more proud than seeingsomeone you met or mentored or
(36:02):
sponsored move up in thebusiness beyond you.
I used to tell folks early onone day I'll be working for you
and, of course, they laugh atyou and say you're being silly,
but there's no prouder momentthan to see someone ascend to a
position where, literally, youcould be looking to them for an
opportunity.
So I would say that's the mostimportant thing to me, grant, is
(36:24):
to make sure that there areleaders who have an opportunity,
that are trained, that have allthe skills we talked about
early, that have network,gravitas, team-oriented
leadership, reputations,sponsors, people who are talking
well of them even when they'renot in the room.
That's the most important thingto me, and everything I've done
(36:48):
so far has provided me withthat opportunity.
Once you have that credibility,then people come to you and
they want to talk about what didyou do?
How did you do it?
How can I do it?
I don't think there's anythingI enjoy more than making that
contribution.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Well, you made a significant contribution through
your tenure, what you've done.
As you look back on yourjourney, it's been wonderful.
I thank you for being thatperson in the room when I wasn't
in the room and that you werehelping to make the decisions
that we can get better patientoutcomes for our community, and
(37:26):
we want to continue to havevoices like that available to us
in all the different boardroomsthat are in America in health
care.
I have just one more quickquestion because it's on my mind
and because you're from DC andthat you've lived in Chicago and
you mentioned a little bitabout Detroit and I'm not sure
if you're into college footballor the NFL, but are you a
(37:47):
Commanders fan?
Are you a Bears fan?
Are you a Lions fan?
Talk to me about that.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Are you a Bears fan?
Are you a Lions fan?
Talk to me about that.
Well, let's deviate just everso slightly and say I'm a
diehard Wolverine.
Oh, there we go.
While this isn't a good yearfor us, we're on the heels 2024
National Championship, so we'llhang our hat on that.
As far as professional football, this is a rough time to be a
Bears fan.
(38:13):
I always try to support thehome team.
I'm a big fan of the Commandersand what they're trying to do.
Their new quarterback isdynamic and I'm looking forward
to seeing him in advance.
My son is a diehard Commandersfan, so I'll go with the
Commanders Next year.
Our conference is in Pittsburgh, so a shout out to Pittsburgh.
And I'm a big fan of MikeTomlin and hopefully we may get
(38:36):
him to make an appearance.
So, um, I don't want to evadethe answer.
I'll certainly say I'msupporting the commanders, um,
with their new approach newquarterback, new new coach, all
of those things and hoping thatCaleb Williams and the bears can
turn things around.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, I'm just going to tee off on that Steelers,
because I'm a big-time Steelersfan.
That is my favorite team.
I do have love for the Dolphins, but when it comes to NFL I
love the Steelers and collegefootball.
I am from Omaha, Nebraska a fewpeople like that.
I am still a diehardCornelisker fan.
I know we've fallen off themark, but hey, we're back in the
bowl game.
We're on our way, baby, we'regoing to be there, we're going
(39:15):
to compete in the Big Ten,hopefully play these Michigan
Wolverines at some point in time.
So, Herb, tell us how tocontact you, what is the best
possible way, and then we'regoing to wish you a happy
holiday.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Sounds good, sounds good, so two ways.
I text a lot and so I'll give.
If that's okay, I can givemyself a number 312-890-8757.
And also email.
The email is hcbuchanan,b-u-c-h-a-n-a-n.
209 at icloudcom and I enjoycommunicating, so I'm always
(39:54):
welcoming folks to reach out tome for personal questions, for
organizational questions, forconnections, whatever will
benefit them.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I love it, I love it and this is what I do.
I've been doing this late andI'm going to ask you this
because it's real timeTestimonials how did you feel
about the interview you just didon the Follow Brand Show?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I feel wonderful about it.
First of all, the host isspectacular.
He makes me feel like I'm onone of my favorite podcasts.
I really enjoyed it.
The questions are insightful,they're relevant to the audience
.
They get us going to talk aboutthe things that we need to
share with folks, so I enjoyedthe podcast.
I would do this over and overagain.
(40:36):
Even if we just talk sports, Iwould do this.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Well, we might have to do that definitely in 2025.
I want to invite your entireaudience and your entire family
to tune in to all the episodesof Follow Brand.
You can do so at the numberfive.
That's five-star.
Bdm, that's B for Brand, d fordevelopment and for masterscom.
This has been wonderful and Ilook forward to talking to you
again, my friend.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Thanks a lot, Grant.
Happy holidays to you.
Enjoy and go Cornhuskers, Ilove go Big Red.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Thanks for joining us on the Fall of Red podcast.
Big thanks to Full EffectProductions for their incredible
support on each and everyepisode.
Now the journey continues onour YouTube channel Follow Brand
TV Series.
Dive into exclusive interviews,extended content and bonus
insights that will fuel yoursuccess.
(41:27):
Subscribe now and be a part ofour growing community sharing
and learning together.
Explore, engage and elevate atFollow Brand TV Series on
YouTube.
Stay connected, stay inspired.
Till next time.
We will continue building afive-star brand that you can
follow.
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