Curious about bridging the cultural gaps in healthcare? Join us as we sit down with the pioneering Dr. Mauvareen Beverley, who brings groundbreaking insights from her latest book, "Nine Simple Solutions to Achieve Health Equity." Dr. Beverley unpacks her person-centered philosophy and introduces the revolutionary concept of the "bridge team," designed to improve communication and understanding in patient care. Discover how recognizing and respecting individual cultural identities can lead to significant health outcomes.
In a deeply moving segment, we uncover the transformative journey of an 18-year-old sickle cell patient who challenges our preconceptions and shares her poignant story of loss and systemic failures. Her experiences led to the creation of a much-needed support group for sickle cell patients, emphasizing the urgent need for holistic care and better family counseling. We also question the term "sickle cell warriors" and advocate for comprehensive support systems that address both physical and mental health.
Cultural competency in healthcare takes center stage as we recount Dr. Beverley's collaborations with Dr. Irene Duanca and their work on addressing disparities in clinical trials. Through compelling stories and historical context, such as the migration experiences of elderly African-American patients, we highlight the importance of culturally competent care teams. Learn how understanding and humanizing patient care can bridge gaps and lead to improved health outcomes for diverse populations. Tune in for an episode that promises to inspire and educate healthcare professionals committed to achieving true health equity.
order the ebook now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D73NNN2V
Get the paperback on Juneteenth: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D73NNN2V
Check out my website: drbeverley.com
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Follow the Brand.
I am your host, grant McGaughan, ceo of 5 Star BDM, a 5 Star
personal branding and businessdevelopment company.
I want to take you on a journeythat takes another deep dive
into the world of personalbranding and business
(00:21):
development using compellingpersonal story, business
conversations and tipsdevelopment using compelling
personal story, businessconversations and tips to
improve your personal brand.
By listening to the Follow theBrand podcast series, you will
be able to differentiateyourself from the competition
and allow you to build trustwith prospective clients and
employers.
You never get a second chanceto make a first impression.
(00:45):
Make it one that will set youapart, build trust and reflect
who you are.
Developing your five-starpersonal brand is a great way to
demonstrate your skills andknowledge.
If you have any questions fromme or my guests, please email me
.
At grantmcgaw, spelledM-C-G-A-U-G-H at 5starbdm B for
(01:14):
brand, d for development, m formasterscom.
Now let's begin with our nextfive-star episode on Follow the
Brand.
Welcome to another excitingepisode of on Follow the Brand.
Welcome to another excitingepisode of the Follow the Brand
Podcast.
I am your host, brent McGaugh,ceo of Five Star BDM, where we
(01:34):
help you to build a five-starbrand that people will follow.
And today we have a trulyspecial guest joining us, dr
Marverie Beverly.
And for those who missed herpowerful insights the last time,
dr Beverly is a healthcaretrial blazer who has dedicated
her career developing innovativecare management programs at
(01:54):
leading New York hospitals.
Her first patient approach andfocus on cultural competence
have positively impactedthousands of lives, and there
couldn't be a more fitting daythan Juneteenth to welcome Dr
Beverly back to discuss herhighly anticipated new book,
(02:14):
nine Simple Solutions to AchieveHealth Equity.
This guide promises torevolutionize how healthcare
professionals engage withdiverse patient populations.
And as we celebrate the end ofslavery and the resilience of
the African-American community,dr Beverly will share nine
(02:35):
deceptively simple yet profoundsolutions for bridging cultural
gaps in healthcare.
Cultural gaps in healthcare.
Her person-centered philosophyaddresses the root causes of why
certain communities face poorhealth outcomes despite having
access to care.
From compliance issues tounconscious biases,
(02:58):
communication barriers tosystemic inequities, dr
Beverly's Solutions Tackle itAll Through the Lens of Human
Experience and Empathy.
Your book is a powerful call toaction for healthcare workers
to truly see and understandtheir patients as individuals
(03:20):
first.
So get ready to be inspired, aswe hear directly from the
innovative mind behind ninesolutions.
Dr Beverly's words are sure toopen eyes and change
perspectives on what true healthequity looks like in practice.
All this and more right here onthe Follow Brand Podcast, where
(03:43):
we are building a five-starbrand that you can follow.
Welcome everyone to the FollowBrand Podcast.
I am Grant McGaugh, and I getan opportunity to bring back a
very, very popular guest, drMaureen Beverly.
She was on our show about ayear or so ago.
(04:05):
We gave just a great discussionaround sickle cell, around how
to work with patients whenthey're not culturally competent
, about some of the people thatyou're working with.
Now she's writing a book andthe book is coming out very
(04:25):
quickly I think it's going to beannounced here on Juneteenth,
as a matter of fact, and that'sgoing to be wonderful and so I
want to bring her to the stagetalk about why she wrote this
book and why it's so important.
So, dr Beverly, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
important.
So, dr Beverly, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Thank you, grant, and I'mhonored again to be on your
podcast.
So my name is Dr MaureenBeverly and currently I'm a
consultant in a consultant role.
I'm a consultant for MaureenBeverly, mdplc Patient
Engagement and CulturalCompetence Training.
(05:16):
Prior to my current position, Iwas at three public hospitals in
New York, which was Elmhurstand Queens and King's Hospital,
which was part of New York CityHealth and Hospital, and I was
responsible for developing thefirst care management program.
And within that care managementprogram was the concept of the
bridge team and the whole ideaabout the bridge team bridged
the gap.
I don't care what the gap was.
(05:36):
It was an opportunity becausethe bridge team would have a
little extra time to speak withpatients and family, to be able
to better understand who therewere as individuals and what
were some of their concerns.
And the bridge team was amazingand it was a combination of
(05:57):
care managers, case managers,social workers and myself and
because of the care managementprogram, I was able to speak
with over a thousand patientsfrom all race and ethnicity and
I came to the concept ofrecognizing that solutions are
(06:20):
simple and if we solve thesimple, it doesn't have to
escalate to the complex aresimple.
And if we solve the simple itdoesn't have to escalate to the
complex.
And I will go further into someof the solutions, the simple
solutions and how we came tohave that concept.
So in Elmhurst it was a large,more diversified population.
There were Asians, hispanic,indian population and a growing
(06:46):
Russian population there.
The black population there wasvery small as compared to Queens
where there was a large blackpopulation and the second
population was Indians.
But they were not from India,they were from Guyana, the
Caribbean.
And just on a side note, I cameup with the concept of the
(07:08):
lookalike syndrome.
And what do I mean by that?
So we went in to see a patientat Queens and the bridge team
and one of the nurses said oh sowe're in India, you're from?
And he said I'm not from India,I'm Caribbean, I'm Guyanese.
So that's when I realized thatwhat I call the lookalike
(07:30):
syndrome.
I do presentations which I'vedone at various institutions and
medical schools British person,they're Irish.
And see how far you get.
Go tell a Japanese, they'reJapanese.
Go tell an Indian, they'rePakistani.
Go tell a Jamaican, they'reTrinidadian.
(07:50):
And go tell a Nigerian, they'reGhanaian.
And, most important, go tell aNew Yorker they're from New
Jersey, you know, and I thinkthat's important because in the
same geographic locations andtheir similarities, but from a
patient engagement and acultural competence perspective,
we need to understand theunique differences when it comes
(08:11):
to healthcare and be able tohave a conversation with
patients.
And, as I said in my variousroles in New York City Health
and Hospital, as AssociateExecutive Director, I developed
the first care managementprogram and when I was Deputy
(08:31):
Executive Director at KingsCounty, which is in Brooklyn,
new York, and is what I-Americanpopulation and the Spanish
population was not from yourtypical Puerto Rico, dominican
Republic or Mexico.
(08:51):
They were from Panama and undercolonial rule, the British sent
the English-speaking Caribbeanislanders to Panama to build a
canal.
Phenotypically, they look blackand their names are not English
and Spanish.
Their names are not MariaRivera or Jesus Garcia.
(09:12):
Their names are Ronaldo, austin, antonio, martin, and their
primary language was English.
And the Caribbean population inBrooklyn, the top islands were
Jamaica, trinidad, haiti andGuyana, and so the second
language outside of English wasHaitian, creole, and it's based
(09:34):
on my talking to over 1,000patients from all ethnicities
that I came to the concept ofsimple solution and it was a
result of what I refer to asstopping my tracks moments.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
This is so important to understand is you have a
unique perspective on healthequity, your book, that you've
written Nine Simple Solutions toAchieve Health Equity a guide
for physiciansicians andPatients, and in our previous
discussions and you just alludedto it right now that we've got
(10:10):
to understand the people morethan or just as much as we
understand the disease becauseof how it needs to be treated
and you get better outcomes.
Talk to us more about whatyou've learned when it comes to
health equity and yourparticular take on how you feel
(10:33):
this will be a solution forphysicians, especially if they
read your book and can getbetter outcomes.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah.
So just a correction.
The book is entitled NineSingle Solutions to Achieve
Health Equity a guide tohealthcare professionals and
patients, not just physicians,it's everybody in the clinical
could be social workers, couldbe nurses and so forth.
My understanding of individualhuman beings and the value of
(11:09):
individual human beings from allethnicities and race.
Because if you don't value me,my health care is going to go
south.
But if we have a concept ofwhat I define as the common
thread, the human experience,and what do I mean by that Once
accurately diagnosed, there's nohuman being on planet Earth to
(11:32):
give it back, regardless of race, ethnicity, socioeconomic
status, language spoken.
The billionaire can't say, oh,I'll give you a million dollars
to take the cancer back.
Oh, that's not enough, I'llgive you five million.
It's the same circumstance.
As a billionaire, as a homelessindividual, it's non-negotiable
(11:53):
.
In life, we make changes, wecan make changes.
You know, if we don't like ourschool our kids go to, we could
change.
If we don't like our jobs, wecould leave.
If we don't like our family, wecould leave.
If we don't like our family, wecould go to another stage, you
know.
But once accurately diagnosed,it's non-negotiable period.
There's no culture that says,oh, in our culture we don't
(12:15):
accept diabetes, you know.
So maybe health systems wouldbe more empathetic and less
judgmental if they recognize theconcept of the common thread,
and for us also to recognize thebulk of us taking care of
patients never laid in ahospital dead.
Those that do are womendelivering life and in certain
(12:37):
circumstances, patients aretrying to prevent death, and so
to me, that's the common thread,that's one of the simple
solutions.
Adopt the common thread, and soit will also increase the value
of the human being,particularly the African
American population, who areless than considered in the same
(13:00):
category as being valued as ahuman being.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Now, you also mentioned you just spoke about
it stopping your track moments.
And you know, when I see that Iget this image, I have to see
myself.
You know on my daily commute orwhatnot, and you hear that stop
track moment, get that one callor something occurs.
It just changes everything inlife and what's important, talk
(13:27):
to us more about what yourexperience is when you say
stopping your tracks, can you?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
explain.
Yes, I'll give you an exampleof what I refer to.
So the bridge team in Queens,we were told the most vulnerable
population of us, patients withsickle cell disease.
So we were told to look, go seethis 18-year-old.
She is just attitudinal,disrespectful, she's always in
(13:54):
the emergency room, readmitted,and so forth.
So then you know, I'm thinkingwhat 18-year-old is not
attitudinal without alife-threatening condition and
let's give her the benefit ofthe doubt.
So the bridge team and I, andthese stop-in-my-tracks moments
always happen at Monday morning9 o'clock.
So we went to see, we're aboutto enter her room and Grant, the
(14:18):
statement is forever embeddedin my brain.
She said she went like this I'mon my phone, okay.
So the team is whispering,that's what we're talking about.
She's so disrespectful.
So I said give her the benefitof the doubt.
So when she got off her phone,we're about to enter the room,
and here is her statement If youhave a cure, come in, if you
(14:41):
don't.
And she pointed, keep walking.
And I was literally, was Iexpecting that Monday morning 9
o'clock.
So I literally remember puttingmy foot back on the ground and
then the next statement isalmost I became the child and
she was the adult.
Why do I say that?
She said did you hear what Isaid?
(15:02):
I'm going to repeat myself onemore time.
Isn't that what we tell ourchildren when they're not
following directions?
If you have a cure, come in.
If you don't keep walking?
And I said oh, I had no ideawhat to say, to be honest with
you.
Then I finally said I don'thave a cure, but let me think
about what you said and I'llcome back and speak with you.
(15:24):
I went back to see her at 5o'clock that evening.
I went back to see her at 5o'clock that evening.
This person, who I met at 9o'clock Monday morning, is, from
my perspective, is anindividual who the system
created when I went to see herin the evening.
(15:46):
This is who this actual personis.
She was very analytic, verythoughtful in her conversation
and very honest.
And she said another powerfulstatement.
She said you doctors don'tteach me about sickle cell.
Sickle cell teaches me.
And I said tell me about it.
And she was 18.
16-year-old, her mom got offthe bus from work, developed
(16:11):
chest pain and taken to ahospital and died of a heart
attack At 17,.
Her sister, who was admittedfor sickle cell crisis and
sepsis, died in a hospital.
She's now 18 and she lives withher uncle and you know the way
she describes him.
He's a food, clothing andshelter type of guy, you know.
(16:33):
And I said to her have you everbeen referred to a therapist
for depression screening or tospeak to a therapist at all?
She said no and we hugged eachother and literally teared up,
you know, and she was the stopin my tracks moment, an example
of that.
That led me now to go directlyto the head of the emergency
(16:55):
room and develop a program forwhen patients came in with
sickle cell, we would need tohave a sickle cell support group
and if they agreed to be a partof the support group, sign them
up.
And if they agreed to be a partof the support group, sign them
up.
And that's what happened whenwe signed up patients for the
adult sickle cell support groupand we had the meetings once a
(17:18):
week at 12 o'clock lunch.
We provided lunch and it was anhour before hematology clinic
and when you heard the storiesit was humbling and there was a
therapist on the team, theirpeer managers, case managers,
social workers, a therapist andmyself on the team, as well as
this patient, and it wasunscripted.
(17:39):
Patients could say whatever theywanted to say, whatever their
concerns were, and I heard theword hate a lot and I said, oh
my God.
So one of the patients said,listen, it was very touching.
She said, oh, I hate my mom.
I said, oh my God, as a mom,how do you hate your mom?
She said, oh, no, no, I don'thate her now.
(18:01):
I know she loves me over themoon and she wants me to just
don't have any more pain.
And she cared about my health.
But I never understood when Iwas younger why she sided with
the doctors to keep me in somuch pain.
Why didn't they just let me die, you know?
And then the other last storyabout the hey, my brother hates
(18:22):
me.
Why does your brother hate youbecause I suck up all the oxygen
in the room?
I said tell me more, explain it.
And she said well, the brother.
She had sickle cell, herbrother did not.
And so in a family where onehas a life-threatening condition
and the other sibling does not,it can create conflict.
(18:43):
And so she said the brother wason the basketball team and the
team never went anywhere.
All of a sudden they made it tothe semifinals.
Let's say the finals istomorrow at 1 am in the morning.
She developed sickle cell crisisand the mom and dad had to take
her to the hospital and he hadto go to the game by himself.
And that's when I realized thatthere was no family counseling
(19:06):
offered to patients with sicklecell disease.
And it was.
It should be a mandate, youknow, and currently patients
with sickle cell the adults,they're living midway through
their life expectancy now andthey have to consider themselves
sickle cell warriors andeverybody thinks it's a great
(19:27):
term, but I have a problem withthat term.
If you have a life-threateningcondition, why do I have to be a
warrior?
What does it tell you about thehealth system?
Patients with cystic fibrosisdon't have to be warriors.
Patients with leukemia andother cancers don't have to be
warriors.
So why does this populationhave to be a warrior when
they're midway through theirlife expectancy?
(19:48):
But I'm happy to tell you thatthe sickle cell support group is
still in existence today andnow it's by Zoom.
After COVID it's by Zoom, but wehave changed the dynamics and
elimination of the word drugseekers was eliminated from the
emergency room and the head ofthe emergency room.
That have physician assistantswho saw patients, and I've
(20:13):
developed a whole transition ofcare process from adolescent to
adult.
The last thing I'm going to sayon this is I know the time is
up is that you know there is inthe literature.
There are patients in their 30swho still stay with their
adolescent docs because theydon't want to go to the adult,
because they are treated sopoorly.
(20:33):
And my last statement is fromDr Zemsky, a pain specialist in
Connecticut.
He said difficult patients arenot just born, sometimes they're
created through the medicalsystem.
Not only the system failed tocure, it may have done
unpleasant things to makematters worse, and so that's one
of the simple solutions thatcame about as a result of this
(20:59):
individual.
As I say, stopping my tracksmoment, that's a great stop me.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Stop me in my tracks, because at first it taught me
that you're a great listener,that you listen and truly
uncover the story and theunderlying causes of certain
situations.
As you said, you couldn't solvesickle cell, but you obviously
(21:26):
could solve some of the othereffects that occur when a person
has this type of disease theimpacts around family, around
relationships, around isolationand that type of thing.
I think you did a fantastic jobof talking us through that.
(21:46):
Now you talk in your book.
You say nine simple solutions.
You just gave us one simplesolution.
Now is your book about ninesteps?
Is it more around differentstories and experiences?
Tell us more about what yourbook is about.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I think the nine simple solutions.
One of the major solutions is.
One of them was the commonthread.
You know accepting the commonthread.
The other is the negativity inthe medical records.
(22:24):
I'm sure you heard the wordnoncompliant about 20,000 times.
So now there's a nicer word,nonadherent.
But how many times have youheard the associated why?
So we don't know why John Browndidn't take the medication, but
we're going to refill the samemedication he didn't take and
call it non-compliant, andnon-compliant written in the
medical records two or threetimes.
(22:44):
That patient is honored to helpus and nobody cares about them.
So whatever happens is theirfault.
There's an article came out from, I think, the University of
Chicago Medical School, wherethis this an article on
noncompliance and in the articleit stated that it was more
geared towards African-Americans, particular males, and.
(23:06):
But there was no why in thatarticle.
And in my question my team hadto ask why, why doesn't somebody
follow directions or take theirmedication?
Because if they didn't know, ifthey didn't know why they said,
we've got to ask why Dr B isgoing to.
That's why they call me Dr B,dr B is going to bug out.
So I'll give you a typicalstory.
(23:27):
And when we ask why, for thethese are patients with heart
failure 60 year oldafrican-american male recently
diagnosed with congestive heartfailure returns two weeks later
heart failure decompensated dueto non-compliance.
So when that patient getsadmitted up to the unit, is
anybody going to care about thatperson?
(23:48):
and one of the nurses in theunit said, oh, so he just got
diagnosed with alife-threatening condition and
doesn't follow directions.
I got other things to do.
My team had to ask why and I'mglad you're sitting down, guys.
So when we asked him why, whydon't you take a medication?
I can't take the water pill,which is a diuretic that flushes
(24:09):
fluid out of the body so theheart can pump better and it
makes you urinate a lot.
Why can't you take the waterpill?
Because I drive the numberseven train, so you can't say,
oh, the train is delayed becausethe driver has to find the
bathroom.
So we said when is your shift?
11 pm to 11 am?
What do you do when you gethome?
(24:29):
I do my chores, I makebreakfast, I take some of my
medication, but if I'm on mytour, if I'm going to be on my
shift, I don't take the waterpill.
So we brought in the samecardiologist who was ignoring
him as well and that's why I'msaying you could change systems,
(24:50):
culture, you know and he saidokay, take the water pill when
you get home, but we are awareit may wake you up during the
sleep, I mean during your shift.
It may wake you up during theday when you take a nap, but if,
once you get to your shift,you'd have less of a reason to
urinate.
But to the degree that you do,we're going to give you a
(25:11):
cubicle so you can use in theprivate space when the train
stops.
And you know what the patientsaid.
If I knew I had to choosebetween peeing and breathing, I
would have chosen breathing, butjust to expand the conversation
and the concept.
So you know, without the whyquestion, he would have been
readmitted multiple times andthe more he gets readmitted, the
(25:34):
more people are going to ignorehim and be judgmental.
And if he were to pass atmortality, it would have said
die due to noncompliance.
A simple solution ask the whyquestion and I tell patients and
I give instructions in my book.
If you're in the hospital or adoctor's office or wherever you
(25:56):
are, and a doctor asks you, didyou take your medication or did
you follow direction?
And wait a couple of seconds,and if you don't hear the why
question, say do you want toknow why I didn't take my
medications?
Let's say and then I instruct.
(26:18):
And I really want patients toreally follow this because I
think it could be a change inhealth system.
And then the next statementshould you please don't write
noncompliant in my medicalrecords without asking me why,
because it could have a negativeimpact on my health outcomes.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Thank you, Ready to elevate your brand with
five-star impact?
Welcome to the FirebrandPodcast, your gateway to
exceptional personal growth andinnovative business strategies.
Join me as I unveil the insiderstrategies of industry pioneers
and branding experts.
Discover how to superchargeyour business development.
(26:56):
Harness the power of AI forgrowth and sculpt a personal
brand that stands out in thecrowd.
Transform ambition intoachievement.
Explore more at FirestarBDMcomfor a wealth of resources.
Ignite your journey with ourbrave brain blueprint and begin
crafting your standout Firestarteacher today.
(27:18):
That is so important tounderstand that.
It's a big question why I thinkmost people would choose
breathing over the alternativeand if they are not compliant.
I think that what you justbrought up a simple solution ask
why and there's a lot ofreasons and once you find out
those reasons, maybe now you dohave some solutions that you can
(27:41):
implement.
That will be much better.
I really appreciate you sayingthat.
I'm interested now in yourjourney of writing the book.
You have been a requestedspeaker, you have done a lot of
different webinars, you havebeen involved with a lot of
different clinicians clinicians,physicians and physicians and
(28:06):
nurses and I want to know yourjourney of writing this book.
What actually?
What was that like?
I mean, was this over fiveyears, three years, one year?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat, I think it probably was
over, probably started in 2019at some point.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You know, and you know it took different paths,
you know, and as I, since I'm anew writer, I've never written a
book before.
So I joined a lot of webinarsto understand the process
involved and the chapters.
And you know, it wasinteresting.
(28:47):
And the editor that I got, shewas amazing.
She was Dr Irene Duanca.
She was chief medical officerat IBM and she was on a webinar
and so I connected with her andI told her about my book and
would she be interested inediting my book?
(29:11):
And she said yes, and so she,because she wrote a book on, she
edited a book on clinicaltrials and disparity.
So I just thought she would bea good, excellent person.
She understands the medicalfield and she's also an editor.
So how better could it be?
(29:31):
And she was amazing.
And she, you know, sheintroduced me to a lot of
different ways of approachingcertain topics, you know, and
I'll just give you an example.
So there was an Asian mom when Iwas at Elmhurst and you know I
passed her and the baby was inthe NICU and my office was about
(29:55):
the next door.
So I said she looked so sad onher face, you could see the
sadness and the pain and thesuffering.
And she said I said, which oneis your baby?
So she pointed to her son.
Long story short, the baby hada cardiac surgery at Mount Sinai
, at the affiliate hospital, andso now they brought the baby
(30:16):
back and a week later the babyhas to go back to Mount Sinai.
And she did not know why thebaby had to go back and
obviously the feeling about itwas that the surgery went bad or
something went wrong.
You know, and she resonatedwith me.
I felt her pain because and thechapter is in my book about my
(30:39):
son at 17 months who had brainsurgery, you know and so, as a
mom, so I went into the team andI said please explain to her
why the baby has to go back, youknow.
So the team said oh, we'rewaiting for our husband, and I'm
glad.
I said oh, he must be parked inthe car, you know.
(30:59):
So they said no, this is 8o'clock in the morning.
He went back at 6 pm from work.
I said what You're going towait for, 12 hours for her?
So I said what You're going towait for 12 hours for her?
So I said no, he said in theAsian culture, the man makes the
decision.
So that's what they're waitingfor.
So I said no, the mommy culturerules.
(31:22):
Okay, regardless of where youare, the mommy culture rules.
Race, ethnicity doesn't matter,the mommy culture rules.
Go explain to her and let hertell you to wait for her husband
.
And one of the corrections thatshe made, which is interesting.
She said well, in all culturesthe mommy culture doesn't rule.
(31:42):
So you know, that was it.
So I changed it to in hospitals, the mommy culture rules, you
know, but this is just sheddinglight to a wider audience, you
know.
And she said well, I don't know, the mommy culture rules all
over the all over this land, youknow, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So these are just yeah but it's like cultural
competence is such I mean youcan get a phd in cultural
competence and it's so importantwhen you marry that together
with the with health care andyou're talking about health
equity and you're taking a sucha different lens at looking at
(32:26):
health equity.
A lot of people you know youthink health equity you're
talking, you're talkingaffordability, but you're
talking about it from a culturalstandpoint that if you have to
go through some type of hospitaladmittance or you're in the
doctor's care and the care teamdoesn't truly understand you
(32:51):
whether it's from a languagestandpoint or from, like you
just mentioned, the culturalstandpoint of how they view
certain things and there's adisconnect, there's a gap and
you've done thousands ofinterviews now You've seen the
outcomes of miscommunication,misunderstanding and because of
(33:14):
those things, they accumulateinto negative outcomes.
Talk to us more about culturalcompetency from your lens.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So, from my end, cultural competence has to
include American-born physiciansto foreign-born patients, but
also foreign-born physicians toAmerican-born patients and
American-born physicians toAmerican-born patients, who are
different than themselves.
And it manifested itself inparticularly at Kings County in
(33:47):
terms of being in charge of thecongestive heart failure
readmission prevention program,and it's tied into what I
learned and this was anotherstop in my tracks moment from a
cultural perspective.
So we went in to see a patient.
I was in charge of thecongestive heart failure
(34:07):
readmission prevention patient.
I was in charge of thecongestive heart failure
readmission prevention and Iadopted, after I left Kings
County and Elmhurst, I went tobe Deputy Director of Health of
Care Management at Kings Countyand I adopted the concept of the
Bridge Team to the ReadmissionPrevention Team and it was an
amazing team.
We had everybody on the team.
We had African-Americans, wehad Caucasians, we had an
(34:31):
amazing Jewish pharmacist, wehad people from Nigeria, people
from the Caribbean.
You know you name.
It was on our team.
Understand who'sAfrican-American, who's
(34:51):
Caribbean?
And I wanted to find out areyou visiting New York and you
got sick or do you live here?
Because the transition of carewould be different.
So we went in to see a patient,of course, monday morning, nine
o'clock.
And I said you know, goodmorning.
She said good morning.
So I said where are you from?
You know, she said SouthCarolina.
And from my clinical mind I wasabout to say you know, when did
(35:13):
you come to New York?
Are you visiting New York or doyou live here?
Because the transition of carewould be different.
And before I was able to getthat question out, she said my
parents were a step away fromslavery and my grandparents were
slaves.
Monday morning 9 o'clock.
Yeah, stop your tracks moment.
(35:35):
Yes, she said.
Tell me about it.
She said, and some of themspoke in quotes Obviously, heart
failure is age-related.
Most of the patients, thecohort of patients, were between
60 and 92.
And when you hear this story andshe said my family picked
cotton on a plantation that wasnot ours and then we had to get
up at the crack of dawn and pick300 to 500 pounds of cotton and
(35:58):
then I had to walk 10 miles toa segregated school and, by the
way, that number 300 to 500pounds of cotton, I think, is
the same number that was in thatmovie, 12 Years a Slave.
And I said how do you walk 10miles?
And I'm thinking how do youwalk 10 miles?
And I'm thinking how do youwalk 10 miles?
We can't even go five blockswithout calling an Uber.
And I'll never forget her bodylanguage.
(36:19):
I said how do you walk 10 miles?
She said in a higher tone andthe body language changed.
Well, if you wanted aneducation, you had to Like what
part of this?
Don't you get stupid?
And then I said did you have towalk back?
She said no, the principal andthe horse were on carriage and
we had to get back before dark,before the Ku Klux Klan.
(36:40):
I said how old were you?
She said 10 years old.
Could you imagine?
No, I can't.
She went to Voorhees College.
It's a two-year black collegein South Carolina, in the
Carolinas, I think.
It's still South Carolina.
And this is now almost 60 yearslater.
And guess what her nextstatement was?
I didn't get into my secondtribe.
(37:03):
She was still upset withherself.
She came to New York, marriedand in the 30s and 40s was the
migration.
And I had to research themigration.
Why is everybody from theCarolinas?
Because 90% of the cohort ofAfrican-American patients were
from the Carolinas.
I'm thinking Virginia is sortof down the street from Osaka.
(37:24):
We don't get anybody.
And just a quick note is afterthe Emancipation Proclamation,
when blacks had their firstrepresentation in Congress,
their community has been betterthan the white community.
They built schools, churches,businesses.
The plantation owner probablywent south because nobody was
picking the cotton and over thecourse of time the Ku Klux Klan
came in and burned the wholeplace down and they came up the
(37:46):
coastline to New York andthere's even a documentary, the
Wilmington Massacre.
And she came to New York, shecontinued her education, married
and in 30s and 40s a largepercentage of Black males were
either, you know, doormen, theyworked on the subway system,
they worked in maintenance andinterestingly, I don't know if
(38:08):
you ever heard of this school,stuyvesant High School.
It's an excellent school thatoutshines private and public
schools in New York.
And her two children were twoof five black children to
integrate Stuyvesant High School.
And you know I said to her, andshe continued her education and
(38:31):
became a dietician and sheretired.
I said when did you retire?
She said, you know, in late 90s, early 2000.
And I said, do you mind measking you how much you made?
She said $200 a week, butothers made more.
Read between the lines.
And you know I said to her itwas amazing.
(38:52):
I said to her you know you'regoing to need I was going to
offer her home care services andshe said I don't want anything
that's not mine.
And then I tell my team if youdon't communicate for what the
patient thinks, apologize, don'ttake it personal.
(39:13):
So I said I'm so sorry, maybe Ididn't explain it the way I
should.
She thought I was offering hera handout and I said you know
patients, all patients withMedicare home care services is
part of Medicare.
She said everyone.
I said yes, she said okay.
And so when you talk aboutcultural competence, what I
(39:37):
realized the elderly Blackpopulation is not a part of the
cultural competence conversation.
And when you recognize the roleof religion in this population
was pivotal to their survival,you know.
And when the patient said it'sin God's hands and some of the
(39:57):
people said well, she doesn'twant to participate in our care
because she blames God, I saidno, she truly believes it.
And I went to her and said Iknow God, you love God and God
loves you.
Would it be okay for us to helpyou with your medical condition
so we could please God as well?
(40:18):
And she said, sister, amen,shall we pray and she grabbed
our hands.
I'm telling you it was humblingand just a lot of the religion.
And when the patient said on aWednesday she stopped eating,
she stopped paying attention towhatever was being told to her
(40:40):
and she was depressed.
And the team said, you know,she's depressed, let's get, we
have to do a site referral fordepression screening, which is
protocol, absolutely.
I said, well, find out whatchurch she goes to and let me
know and the reason I told himto do that.
I went in to see her and I saiddo you mind telling what's
important to you?
(41:01):
And that's a key question.
I asked what's important to,not what I think should be
important to you.
What is important to you?
And this was a Wednesday.
She said the fact that I willnot be going to church on Sunday
and I won't be able to pleaseGod.
She felt guilty.
The minister brought her in.
The minister came in and toldher you know, even if prayed
(41:23):
with her and even if you're notdischarged on Sunday, I will
come back and pray with you.
She was a different individual,you know, and it's a learning
curve to understand that whenyou think of the atrocities that
African-American elderly endureand experience and the fact
(41:44):
that they have the worst healthoutcomes.
It's unconscionable and we wereable to decrease the
readmission for heart failurefrom 30% to 18.7 in just about
two years.
The population didn't changethe clinical care, the diagnosis
didn't change.
What changed was the heightenedhuman value.
He stopped with the negativityin the medical records X, y and
(42:09):
to recognize these patients arehuman beings like everybody else
, and it was humbling, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I am humbled.
I tell you that, when you justdescribed to us and how you got
a positive outcome throughcultural competency and to just
asking the great question whythen being able to communicate
at that level?
Now we hear from you and I'mnot hearing much of a New York
accent, I'm hearing a little bitof that Jamaican sound coming
(42:43):
from you, dr Beverly, and youunderstand, especially in New
York, such a melting pot.
Before I let you go and we'retoward the end of our catch,
this book is being released, Ibelieve, on Amazon.
It's Juneteenth.
Why did you pick Juneteenth asyour launch date?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Because it's a federal holiday, it's the end of
slavery 1865, and it's mybirthday.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Happy birthday, okay, happy birthday and, like I say,
if hospital systems adopt someof the simple solutions, because
it came from patients andcurrently they are not
considered as part of solutions.
And I look at it from anotherperspective perception, reality.
What is the perception?
(43:41):
You know you hear HCAP scoresright, and HCAP scores they do a
lot of surveys.
What does the patient thinkabout the care they receive, the
institutions and so forth.
But how many surveys have youheard?
What does the SPAD think aboutthe population they serve?
And you think that that couldhave an impact on the age gap
scores, good or bad?
(44:04):
And I did a survey with doctorshow many are taking five
medications, six medications,none.
Four medications the most weretaking were three.
And then there was one internthat was taking one.
So I said I'm going to assumeit's antibiotic.
He said yes, for 10 days.
I said are you compliant withyour medication?
(44:24):
He said, well, you know,sometimes I forget, I'm on my
shift, you know.
So I said you can't take onemedication compliantly.
But a patient that's takingfive or six medications, we now
call them noncompliant.
He said, well, I'm on my shift.
I said, well, patients, theyhave shifts as well.
You know what he said.
You're right, I won't use thatterm anymore.
(44:47):
I will ask why and when I dopresentations at different
institutions and there's asurvey and number seven is what
I focus on After hearing thepresentation of Dr Beverly, will
it change the way you engagepatients?
And 90-plus percent said yes,you know, and I think the
(45:08):
perception reality.
So what I would recommend whenI do surveys, when I hear what
doctors and clinical team andexecutives think, I ask the
patient the same question.
So they say why don't patientstake their medication?
And I ask the ED doc, theinpatient, the social worker,
everybody said guess what theysaid, boss, the average heart
failure patient is taking fiveor six medications three times a
(45:29):
day on morbid condition.
And what if I told you when Iasked the patients in the bed
why don't you take yourmedication?
What if I told you that oneperson mentioned cost.
Guess what the top answer waswe don't take our medication
because we think we're takingtoo many medications.
I can agree with that If you'regoing to design a system based
(45:52):
on cost.
You see how you fail, and sowhat do we do From the voices of
the persons who are actually inthe bed?
We brought our amazingpharmacist in to meet with the
team to see if we could combinemedication.
We cut out some of themedication, you know.
(46:13):
Let me ask you this, dr DarrellWe'll turn the end of our
conversation, but we cut outsome of the medication.
You know.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Let me ask you this, Dr Beverly.
Yes, we're toward the end ofour conversation, but I know the
audience still wants.
They want to get in contactwith you.
You have a training program.
Talk to us more about yourconsulting business.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yes, I do training and I present for patient
engagement and culturalcompetence training and I've
done it at various institutions.
I've done it at Northwell, I'vedone it at Toro Medical College
, I've done an Institute ofHealthcare Improvement, I've
done it in Chicago, I've done itin a bunch of other places,
(46:49):
university of Buffalo, and sothat's just off the top of my
head, and the whole idea is tobe able to have the institutions
change the culture and the goodnews is we're trained to do no
harm.
It's not that people are badpeople.
(47:12):
What you see are the changesthat come about.
It's not that people are badpeople.
What you see are the changesthat come about.
And once you give them thisparticular concept because it's
not a blame game, you know, it'sabout how do we better
communicate, value all humanbeings and improve their health
outcomes.
And what I do, I havedemonstrable circumstance where
(47:35):
it proven the bridge team isstill aware.
It's still at Elmhurst today.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Guess what they have added a pharmacist.
I will see that and to try tolisten to you and some of these
great techniques that you have,those simple solutions so, so
important.
If the audience needs to get intouch with you, what is the
best possible way?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
So at this point I'll give you my email address.
It's M Beverly B-E-V-E-R-L-E-Y.
M like in Mary D, like in Davidat gmailcom, my website is
being developed and it should beavailable before the 19th, and
it's DrBeverlycom.
So I'm meeting with thedevelopers this week to finalize
(48:24):
the website.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Excellent, excellent.
This has been a wonderful,wonderful discussion.
I wish you nothing but the beston your release.
Again, happy birthday to you,and I want to encourage your
entire audience to tune into allthe episodes of Follow Brand at
5 Star BDM, and that is thenumber 5 star B for Brand, d for
(48:46):
Development infomasterscom.
This has been wonderful and Iwill talk to you soon.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Thank you so much, man.
It's an honor, it's an honor tobe on this podcast with you.
Thank you, have a good rest ofthe day, looking forward to
speaking to you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Oh yes, for their incredible support on each and
every episode.
Now the journey continues onour YouTube channel Follow Brand
TV Series.
Dive into exclusive interviews,extended content and bonus
insights that will fuel yoursuccess.
Subscribe now and be a part ofour growing community, sharing
and learning together.
(49:30):
Explore, engage and elevate atFollow Brand TV Series on
YouTube.
Stay connected, stay inspired.
Till next time, we willcontinue building a five-star
brand that you can follow.
Welcome to another episode of Follow the Brand.
I am your host, grant McGaughan, ceo of 5 Star BDM, a 5 Star
personal branding and businessdevelopment company.
I want to take you on a journeythat takes another deep dive
into the world of personalbranding and business
(00:21):
development using compellingpersonal story, business
conversations and tipsdevelopment using compelling
personal story, businessconversations and tips to
improve your personal brand.
By listening to the Follow theBrand podcast series, you will
be able to differentiateyourself from the competition
and allow you to build trustwith prospective clients and
employers.
You never get a second chanceto make a first impression.
(00:45):
Make it one that will set youapart, build trust and reflect
who you are.
Developing your five-starpersonal brand is a great way to
demonstrate your skills andknowledge.
If you have any questions fromme or my guests, please email me
.
At grantmcgaw, spelledM-C-G-A-U-G-H at 5starbdm B for
(01:14):
brand, d for development, m formasterscom.
Now let's begin with our nextfive-star episode on Follow the
Brand.
Welcome to another excitingepisode of on Follow the Brand.
Welcome to another excitingepisode of the Follow the Brand
Podcast.
I am your host, brent McGaugh,ceo of Five Star BDM, where we
(01:34):
help you to build a five-starbrand that people will follow.
And today we have a trulyspecial guest joining us, dr
Marverie Beverly.
And for those who missed herpowerful insights the last time,
dr Beverly is a healthcaretrial blazer who has dedicated
her career developing innovativecare management programs at
(01:54):
leading New York hospitals.
Her first patient approach andfocus on cultural competence
have positively impactedthousands of lives, and there
couldn't be a more fitting daythan Juneteenth to welcome Dr
Beverly back to discuss herhighly anticipated new book,
(02:14):
nine Simple Solutions to AchieveHealth Equity.
This guide promises torevolutionize how healthcare
professionals engage withdiverse patient populations.
And as we celebrate the end ofslavery and the resilience of
the African-American community,dr Beverly will share nine
(02:35):
deceptively simple yet profoundsolutions for bridging cultural
gaps in healthcare.
Cultural gaps in healthcare.
Her person-centered philosophyaddresses the root causes of why
certain communities face poorhealth outcomes despite having
access to care.
From compliance issues tounconscious biases,
(02:58):
communication barriers tosystemic inequities, dr
Beverly's Solutions Tackle itAll Through the Lens of Human
Experience and Empathy.
Your book is a powerful call toaction for healthcare workers
to truly see and understandtheir patients as individuals
(03:20):
first.
So get ready to be inspired, aswe hear directly from the
innovative mind behind ninesolutions.
Dr Beverly's words are sure toopen eyes and change
perspectives on what true healthequity looks like in practice.
All this and more right here onthe Follow Brand Podcast, where
(03:43):
we are building a five-starbrand that you can follow.
Welcome everyone to the FollowBrand Podcast.
I am Grant McGaugh, and I getan opportunity to bring back a
very, very popular guest, drMaureen Beverly.
She was on our show about ayear or so ago.
(04:05):
We gave just a great discussionaround sickle cell, around how
to work with patients whenthey're not culturally competent
, about some of the people thatyou're working with.
Now she's writing a book andthe book is coming out very
(04:25):
quickly I think it's going to beannounced here on Juneteenth,
as a matter of fact, and that'sgoing to be wonderful and so I
want to bring her to the stagetalk about why she wrote this
book and why it's so important.
So, dr Beverly, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
important.
So, dr Beverly, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Thank you, grant, and I'mhonored again to be on your
podcast.
So my name is Dr MaureenBeverly and currently I'm a
consultant in a consultant role.
I'm a consultant for MaureenBeverly, mdplc Patient
Engagement and CulturalCompetence Training.
(05:16):
Prior to my current position, Iwas at three public hospitals in
New York, which was Elmhurstand Queens and King's Hospital,
which was part of New York CityHealth and Hospital, and I was
responsible for developing thefirst care management program.
And within that care managementprogram was the concept of the
bridge team and the whole ideaabout the bridge team bridged
the gap.
I don't care what the gap was.
(05:36):
It was an opportunity becausethe bridge team would have a
little extra time to speak withpatients and family, to be able
to better understand who therewere as individuals and what
were some of their concerns.
And the bridge team was amazingand it was a combination of
(05:57):
care managers, case managers,social workers and myself and
because of the care managementprogram, I was able to speak
with over a thousand patientsfrom all race and ethnicity and
I came to the concept ofrecognizing that solutions are
(06:20):
simple and if we solve thesimple, it doesn't have to
escalate to the complex aresimple.
And if we solve the simple itdoesn't have to escalate to the
complex.
And I will go further into someof the solutions, the simple
solutions and how we came tohave that concept.
So in Elmhurst it was a large,more diversified population.
There were Asians, hispanic,indian population and a growing
(06:46):
Russian population there.
The black population there wasvery small as compared to Queens
where there was a large blackpopulation and the second
population was Indians.
But they were not from India,they were from Guyana, the
Caribbean.
And just on a side note, I cameup with the concept of the
(07:08):
lookalike syndrome.
And what do I mean by that?
So we went in to see a patientat Queens and the bridge team
and one of the nurses said oh sowe're in India, you're from?
And he said I'm not from India,I'm Caribbean, I'm Guyanese.
So that's when I realized thatwhat I call the lookalike
(07:30):
syndrome.
I do presentations which I'vedone at various institutions and
medical schools British person,they're Irish.
And see how far you get.
Go tell a Japanese, they'reJapanese.
Go tell an Indian, they'rePakistani.
Go tell a Jamaican, they'reTrinidadian.
(07:50):
And go tell a Nigerian, they'reGhanaian.
And, most important, go tell aNew Yorker they're from New
Jersey, you know, and I thinkthat's important because in the
same geographic locations andtheir similarities, but from a
patient engagement and acultural competence perspective,
we need to understand theunique differences when it comes
(08:11):
to healthcare and be able tohave a conversation with
patients.
And, as I said in my variousroles in New York City Health
and Hospital, as AssociateExecutive Director, I developed
the first care managementprogram and when I was Deputy
(08:31):
Executive Director at KingsCounty, which is in Brooklyn,
new York, and is what I-Americanpopulation and the Spanish
population was not from yourtypical Puerto Rico, dominican
Republic or Mexico.
(08:51):
They were from Panama and undercolonial rule, the British sent
the English-speaking Caribbeanislanders to Panama to build a
canal.
Phenotypically, they look blackand their names are not English
and Spanish.
Their names are not MariaRivera or Jesus Garcia.
(09:12):
Their names are Ronaldo, austin, antonio, martin, and their
primary language was English.
And the Caribbean population inBrooklyn, the top islands were
Jamaica, trinidad, haiti andGuyana, and so the second
language outside of English wasHaitian, creole, and it's based
(09:34):
on my talking to over 1,000patients from all ethnicities
that I came to the concept ofsimple solution and it was a
result of what I refer to asstopping my tracks moments.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
This is so important to understand is you have a
unique perspective on healthequity, your book, that you've
written Nine Simple Solutions toAchieve Health Equity a guide
for physiciansicians andPatients, and in our previous
discussions and you just alludedto it right now that we've got
(10:10):
to understand the people morethan or just as much as we
understand the disease becauseof how it needs to be treated
and you get better outcomes.
Talk to us more about whatyou've learned when it comes to
health equity and yourparticular take on how you feel
(10:33):
this will be a solution forphysicians, especially if they
read your book and can getbetter outcomes.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah.
So just a correction.
The book is entitled NineSingle Solutions to Achieve
Health Equity a guide tohealthcare professionals and
patients, not just physicians,it's everybody in the clinical
could be social workers, couldbe nurses and so forth.
My understanding of individualhuman beings and the value of
(11:09):
individual human beings from allethnicities and race.
Because if you don't value me,my health care is going to go
south.
But if we have a concept ofwhat I define as the common
thread, the human experience,and what do I mean by that Once
accurately diagnosed, there's nohuman being on planet Earth to
(11:32):
give it back, regardless of race, ethnicity, socioeconomic
status, language spoken.
The billionaire can't say, oh,I'll give you a million dollars
to take the cancer back.
Oh, that's not enough, I'llgive you five million.
It's the same circumstance.
As a billionaire, as a homelessindividual, it's non-negotiable
(11:53):
.
In life, we make changes, wecan make changes.
You know, if we don't like ourschool our kids go to, we could
change.
If we don't like our jobs, wecould leave.
If we don't like our family, wecould leave.
If we don't like our family, wecould go to another stage, you
know.
But once accurately diagnosed,it's non-negotiable period.
There's no culture that says,oh, in our culture we don't
(12:15):
accept diabetes, you know.
So maybe health systems wouldbe more empathetic and less
judgmental if they recognize theconcept of the common thread,
and for us also to recognize thebulk of us taking care of
patients never laid in ahospital dead.
Those that do are womendelivering life and in certain
(12:37):
circumstances, patients aretrying to prevent death, and so
to me, that's the common thread,that's one of the simple
solutions.
Adopt the common thread, and soit will also increase the value
of the human being,particularly the African
American population, who areless than considered in the same
(13:00):
category as being valued as ahuman being.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Now, you also mentioned you just spoke about
it stopping your track moments.
And you know, when I see that Iget this image, I have to see
myself.
You know on my daily commute orwhatnot, and you hear that stop
track moment, get that one callor something occurs.
It just changes everything inlife and what's important, talk
(13:27):
to us more about what yourexperience is when you say
stopping your tracks, can you?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
explain.
Yes, I'll give you an exampleof what I refer to.
So the bridge team in Queens,we were told the most vulnerable
population of us, patients withsickle cell disease.
So we were told to look, go seethis 18-year-old.
She is just attitudinal,disrespectful, she's always in
(13:54):
the emergency room, readmitted,and so forth.
So then you know, I'm thinkingwhat 18-year-old is not
attitudinal without alife-threatening condition and
let's give her the benefit ofthe doubt.
So the bridge team and I, andthese stop-in-my-tracks moments
always happen at Monday morning9 o'clock.
So we went to see, we're aboutto enter her room and Grant, the
(14:18):
statement is forever embeddedin my brain.
She said she went like this I'mon my phone, okay.
So the team is whispering,that's what we're talking about.
She's so disrespectful.
So I said give her the benefitof the doubt.
So when she got off her phone,we're about to enter the room,
and here is her statement If youhave a cure, come in, if you
(14:41):
don't.
And she pointed, keep walking.
And I was literally, was Iexpecting that Monday morning 9
o'clock.
So I literally remember puttingmy foot back on the ground and
then the next statement isalmost I became the child and
she was the adult.
Why do I say that?
She said did you hear what Isaid?
(15:02):
I'm going to repeat myself onemore time.
Isn't that what we tell ourchildren when they're not
following directions?
If you have a cure, come in.
If you don't keep walking?
And I said oh, I had no ideawhat to say, to be honest with
you.
Then I finally said I don'thave a cure, but let me think
about what you said and I'llcome back and speak with you.
(15:24):
I went back to see her at 5o'clock that evening.
I went back to see her at 5o'clock that evening.
This person, who I met at 9o'clock Monday morning, is, from
my perspective, is anindividual who the system
created when I went to see herin the evening.
(15:46):
This is who this actual personis.
She was very analytic, verythoughtful in her conversation
and very honest.
And she said another powerfulstatement.
She said you doctors don'tteach me about sickle cell.
Sickle cell teaches me.
And I said tell me about it.
And she was 18.
16-year-old, her mom got offthe bus from work, developed
(16:11):
chest pain and taken to ahospital and died of a heart
attack At 17,.
Her sister, who was admittedfor sickle cell crisis and
sepsis, died in a hospital.
She's now 18 and she lives withher uncle and you know the way
she describes him.
He's a food, clothing andshelter type of guy, you know.
(16:33):
And I said to her have you everbeen referred to a therapist
for depression screening or tospeak to a therapist at all?
She said no and we hugged eachother and literally teared up,
you know, and she was the stopin my tracks moment, an example
of that.
That led me now to go directlyto the head of the emergency
(16:55):
room and develop a program forwhen patients came in with
sickle cell, we would need tohave a sickle cell support group
and if they agreed to be a partof the support group, sign them
up.
And if they agreed to be a partof the support group, sign them
up.
And that's what happened whenwe signed up patients for the
adult sickle cell support groupand we had the meetings once a
(17:18):
week at 12 o'clock lunch.
We provided lunch and it was anhour before hematology clinic
and when you heard the storiesit was humbling and there was a
therapist on the team, theirpeer managers, case managers,
social workers, a therapist andmyself on the team, as well as
this patient, and it wasunscripted.
(17:39):
Patients could say whatever theywanted to say, whatever their
concerns were, and I heard theword hate a lot and I said, oh
my God.
So one of the patients said,listen, it was very touching.
She said, oh, I hate my mom.
I said, oh my God, as a mom,how do you hate your mom?
She said, oh, no, no, I don'thate her now.
(18:01):
I know she loves me over themoon and she wants me to just
don't have any more pain.
And she cared about my health.
But I never understood when Iwas younger why she sided with
the doctors to keep me in somuch pain.
Why didn't they just let me die, you know?
And then the other last storyabout the hey, my brother hates
(18:22):
me.
Why does your brother hate youbecause I suck up all the oxygen
in the room?
I said tell me more, explain it.
And she said well, the brother.
She had sickle cell, herbrother did not.
And so in a family where onehas a life-threatening condition
and the other sibling does not,it can create conflict.
(18:43):
And so she said the brother wason the basketball team and the
team never went anywhere.
All of a sudden they made it tothe semifinals.
Let's say the finals istomorrow at 1 am in the morning.
She developed sickle cell crisisand the mom and dad had to take
her to the hospital and he hadto go to the game by himself.
And that's when I realized thatthere was no family counseling
(19:06):
offered to patients with sicklecell disease.
And it was.
It should be a mandate, youknow, and currently patients
with sickle cell the adults,they're living midway through
their life expectancy now andthey have to consider themselves
sickle cell warriors andeverybody thinks it's a great
(19:27):
term, but I have a problem withthat term.
If you have a life-threateningcondition, why do I have to be a
warrior?
What does it tell you about thehealth system?
Patients with cystic fibrosisdon't have to be warriors.
Patients with leukemia andother cancers don't have to be
warriors.
So why does this populationhave to be a warrior when
they're midway through theirlife expectancy?
(19:48):
But I'm happy to tell you thatthe sickle cell support group is
still in existence today andnow it's by Zoom.
After COVID it's by Zoom, but wehave changed the dynamics and
elimination of the word drugseekers was eliminated from the
emergency room and the head ofthe emergency room.
That have physician assistantswho saw patients, and I've
(20:13):
developed a whole transition ofcare process from adolescent to
adult.
The last thing I'm going to sayon this is I know the time is
up is that you know there is inthe literature.
There are patients in their 30swho still stay with their
adolescent docs because theydon't want to go to the adult,
because they are treated sopoorly.
(20:33):
And my last statement is fromDr Zemsky, a pain specialist in
Connecticut.
He said difficult patients arenot just born, sometimes they're
created through the medicalsystem.
Not only the system failed tocure, it may have done
unpleasant things to makematters worse, and so that's one
of the simple solutions thatcame about as a result of this
(20:59):
individual.
As I say, stopping my tracksmoment, that's a great stop me.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Stop me in my tracks, because at first it taught me
that you're a great listener,that you listen and truly
uncover the story and theunderlying causes of certain
situations.
As you said, you couldn't solvesickle cell, but you obviously
(21:26):
could solve some of the othereffects that occur when a person
has this type of disease theimpacts around family, around
relationships, around isolationand that type of thing.
I think you did a fantastic jobof talking us through that.
(21:46):
Now you talk in your book.
You say nine simple solutions.
You just gave us one simplesolution.
Now is your book about ninesteps?
Is it more around differentstories and experiences?
Tell us more about what yourbook is about.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I think the nine simple solutions.
One of the major solutions is.
One of them was the commonthread.
You know accepting the commonthread.
The other is the negativity inthe medical records.
(22:24):
I'm sure you heard the wordnoncompliant about 20,000 times.
So now there's a nicer word,nonadherent.
But how many times have youheard the associated why?
So we don't know why John Browndidn't take the medication, but
we're going to refill the samemedication he didn't take and
call it non-compliant, andnon-compliant written in the
medical records two or threetimes.
(22:44):
That patient is honored to helpus and nobody cares about them.
So whatever happens is theirfault.
There's an article came out from, I think, the University of
Chicago Medical School, wherethis this an article on
noncompliance and in the articleit stated that it was more
geared towards African-Americans, particular males, and.
(23:06):
But there was no why in thatarticle.
And in my question my team hadto ask why, why doesn't somebody
follow directions or take theirmedication?
Because if they didn't know, ifthey didn't know why they said,
we've got to ask why Dr B isgoing to.
That's why they call me Dr B,dr B is going to bug out.
So I'll give you a typicalstory.
(23:27):
And when we ask why, for thethese are patients with heart
failure 60 year oldafrican-american male recently
diagnosed with congestive heartfailure returns two weeks later
heart failure decompensated dueto non-compliance.
So when that patient getsadmitted up to the unit, is
anybody going to care about thatperson?
(23:48):
and one of the nurses in theunit said, oh, so he just got
diagnosed with alife-threatening condition and
doesn't follow directions.
I got other things to do.
My team had to ask why and I'mglad you're sitting down, guys.
So when we asked him why, whydon't you take a medication?
I can't take the water pill,which is a diuretic that flushes
(24:09):
fluid out of the body so theheart can pump better and it
makes you urinate a lot.
Why can't you take the waterpill?
Because I drive the numberseven train, so you can't say,
oh, the train is delayed becausethe driver has to find the
bathroom.
So we said when is your shift?
11 pm to 11 am?
What do you do when you gethome?
(24:29):
I do my chores, I makebreakfast, I take some of my
medication, but if I'm on mytour, if I'm going to be on my
shift, I don't take the waterpill.
So we brought in the samecardiologist who was ignoring
him as well and that's why I'msaying you could change systems,
(24:50):
culture, you know and he saidokay, take the water pill when
you get home, but we are awareit may wake you up during the
sleep, I mean during your shift.
It may wake you up during theday when you take a nap, but if,
once you get to your shift,you'd have less of a reason to
urinate.
But to the degree that you do,we're going to give you a
(25:11):
cubicle so you can use in theprivate space when the train
stops.
And you know what the patientsaid.
If I knew I had to choosebetween peeing and breathing, I
would have chosen breathing, butjust to expand the conversation
and the concept.
So you know, without the whyquestion, he would have been
readmitted multiple times andthe more he gets readmitted, the
(25:34):
more people are going to ignorehim and be judgmental.
And if he were to pass atmortality, it would have said
die due to noncompliance.
A simple solution ask the whyquestion and I tell patients and
I give instructions in my book.
If you're in the hospital or adoctor's office or wherever you
(25:56):
are, and a doctor asks you, didyou take your medication or did
you follow direction?
And wait a couple of seconds,and if you don't hear the why
question, say do you want toknow why I didn't take my
medications?
Let's say and then I instruct.
(26:18):
And I really want patients toreally follow this because I
think it could be a change inhealth system.
And then the next statementshould you please don't write
noncompliant in my medicalrecords without asking me why,
because it could have a negativeimpact on my health outcomes.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Thank you, Ready to elevate your brand with
five-star impact?
Welcome to the FirebrandPodcast, your gateway to
exceptional personal growth andinnovative business strategies.
Join me as I unveil the insiderstrategies of industry pioneers
and branding experts.
Discover how to superchargeyour business development.
(26:56):
Harness the power of AI forgrowth and sculpt a personal
brand that stands out in thecrowd.
Transform ambition intoachievement.
Explore more at FirestarBDMcomfor a wealth of resources.
Ignite your journey with ourbrave brain blueprint and begin
crafting your standout Firestarteacher today.
(27:18):
That is so important tounderstand that.
It's a big question why I thinkmost people would choose
breathing over the alternativeand if they are not compliant.
I think that what you justbrought up a simple solution ask
why and there's a lot ofreasons and once you find out
those reasons, maybe now you dohave some solutions that you can
(27:41):
implement.
That will be much better.
I really appreciate you sayingthat.
I'm interested now in yourjourney of writing the book.
You have been a requestedspeaker, you have done a lot of
different webinars, you havebeen involved with a lot of
different clinicians clinicians,physicians and physicians and
(28:06):
nurses and I want to know yourjourney of writing this book.
What actually?
What was that like?
I mean, was this over fiveyears, three years, one year?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat, I think it probably was
over, probably started in 2019at some point.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You know, and you know it took different paths,
you know, and as I, since I'm anew writer, I've never written a
book before.
So I joined a lot of webinarsto understand the process
involved and the chapters.
And you know, it wasinteresting.
(28:47):
And the editor that I got, shewas amazing.
She was Dr Irene Duanca.
She was chief medical officerat IBM and she was on a webinar
and so I connected with her andI told her about my book and
would she be interested inediting my book?
(29:11):
And she said yes, and so she,because she wrote a book on, she
edited a book on clinicaltrials and disparity.
So I just thought she would bea good, excellent person.
She understands the medicalfield and she's also an editor.
So how better could it be?
(29:31):
And she was amazing.
And she, you know, sheintroduced me to a lot of
different ways of approachingcertain topics, you know, and
I'll just give you an example.
So there was an Asian mom when Iwas at Elmhurst and you know I
passed her and the baby was inthe NICU and my office was about
(29:55):
the next door.
So I said she looked so sad onher face, you could see the
sadness and the pain and thesuffering.
And she said I said, which oneis your baby?
So she pointed to her son.
Long story short, the baby hada cardiac surgery at Mount Sinai
, at the affiliate hospital, andso now they brought the baby
(30:16):
back and a week later the babyhas to go back to Mount Sinai.
And she did not know why thebaby had to go back and
obviously the feeling about itwas that the surgery went bad or
something went wrong.
You know, and she resonatedwith me.
I felt her pain because and thechapter is in my book about my
(30:39):
son at 17 months who had brainsurgery, you know and so, as a
mom, so I went into the team andI said please explain to her
why the baby has to go back, youknow.
So the team said oh, we'rewaiting for our husband, and I'm
glad.
I said oh, he must be parked inthe car, you know.
(30:59):
So they said no, this is 8o'clock in the morning.
He went back at 6 pm from work.
I said what You're going towait for, 12 hours for her?
So I said what You're going towait for 12 hours for her?
So I said no, he said in theAsian culture, the man makes the
decision.
So that's what they're waitingfor.
So I said no, the mommy culturerules.
(31:22):
Okay, regardless of where youare, the mommy culture rules.
Race, ethnicity doesn't matter,the mommy culture rules.
Go explain to her and let hertell you to wait for her husband
.
And one of the corrections thatshe made, which is interesting.
She said well, in all culturesthe mommy culture doesn't rule.
(31:42):
So you know, that was it.
So I changed it to in hospitals, the mommy culture rules, you
know, but this is just sheddinglight to a wider audience, you
know.
And she said well, I don't know, the mommy culture rules all
over the all over this land, youknow, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So these are just yeah but it's like cultural
competence is such I mean youcan get a phd in cultural
competence and it's so importantwhen you marry that together
with the with health care andyou're talking about health
equity and you're taking a sucha different lens at looking at
(32:26):
health equity.
A lot of people you know youthink health equity you're
talking, you're talkingaffordability, but you're
talking about it from a culturalstandpoint that if you have to
go through some type of hospitaladmittance or you're in the
doctor's care and the care teamdoesn't truly understand you
(32:51):
whether it's from a languagestandpoint or from, like you
just mentioned, the culturalstandpoint of how they view
certain things and there's adisconnect, there's a gap and
you've done thousands ofinterviews now You've seen the
outcomes of miscommunication,misunderstanding and because of
(33:14):
those things, they accumulateinto negative outcomes.
Talk to us more about culturalcompetency from your lens.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So, from my end, cultural competence has to
include American-born physiciansto foreign-born patients, but
also foreign-born physicians toAmerican-born patients and
American-born physicians toAmerican-born patients, who are
different than themselves.
And it manifested itself inparticularly at Kings County in
(33:47):
terms of being in charge of thecongestive heart failure
readmission prevention program,and it's tied into what I
learned and this was anotherstop in my tracks moment from a
cultural perspective.
So we went in to see a patient.
I was in charge of thecongestive heart failure
(34:07):
readmission prevention patient.
I was in charge of thecongestive heart failure
readmission prevention and Iadopted, after I left Kings
County and Elmhurst, I went tobe Deputy Director of Health of
Care Management at Kings Countyand I adopted the concept of the
Bridge Team to the ReadmissionPrevention Team and it was an
amazing team.
We had everybody on the team.
We had African-Americans, wehad Caucasians, we had an
(34:31):
amazing Jewish pharmacist, wehad people from Nigeria, people
from the Caribbean.
You know you name.
It was on our team.
Understand who'sAfrican-American, who's
(34:51):
Caribbean?
And I wanted to find out areyou visiting New York and you
got sick or do you live here?
Because the transition of carewould be different.
So we went in to see a patient,of course, monday morning, nine
o'clock.
And I said you know, goodmorning.
She said good morning.
So I said where are you from?
You know, she said SouthCarolina.
And from my clinical mind I wasabout to say you know, when did
(35:13):
you come to New York?
Are you visiting New York or doyou live here?
Because the transition of carewould be different.
And before I was able to getthat question out, she said my
parents were a step away fromslavery and my grandparents were
slaves.
Monday morning 9 o'clock.
Yeah, stop your tracks moment.
(35:35):
Yes, she said.
Tell me about it.
She said, and some of themspoke in quotes Obviously, heart
failure is age-related.
Most of the patients, thecohort of patients, were between
60 and 92.
And when you hear this story andshe said my family picked
cotton on a plantation that wasnot ours and then we had to get
up at the crack of dawn and pick300 to 500 pounds of cotton and
(35:58):
then I had to walk 10 miles toa segregated school and, by the
way, that number 300 to 500pounds of cotton, I think, is
the same number that was in thatmovie, 12 Years a Slave.
And I said how do you walk 10miles?
And I'm thinking how do youwalk 10 miles?
And I'm thinking how do youwalk 10 miles?
We can't even go five blockswithout calling an Uber.
And I'll never forget her bodylanguage.
(36:19):
I said how do you walk 10 miles?
She said in a higher tone andthe body language changed.
Well, if you wanted aneducation, you had to Like what
part of this?
Don't you get stupid?
And then I said did you have towalk back?
She said no, the principal andthe horse were on carriage and
we had to get back before dark,before the Ku Klux Klan.
(36:40):
I said how old were you?
She said 10 years old.
Could you imagine?
No, I can't.
She went to Voorhees College.
It's a two-year black collegein South Carolina, in the
Carolinas, I think.
It's still South Carolina.
And this is now almost 60 yearslater.
And guess what her nextstatement was?
I didn't get into my secondtribe.
(37:03):
She was still upset withherself.
She came to New York, marriedand in the 30s and 40s was the
migration.
And I had to research themigration.
Why is everybody from theCarolinas?
Because 90% of the cohort ofAfrican-American patients were
from the Carolinas.
I'm thinking Virginia is sortof down the street from Osaka.
(37:24):
We don't get anybody.
And just a quick note is afterthe Emancipation Proclamation,
when blacks had their firstrepresentation in Congress,
their community has been betterthan the white community.
They built schools, churches,businesses.
The plantation owner probablywent south because nobody was
picking the cotton and over thecourse of time the Ku Klux Klan
came in and burned the wholeplace down and they came up the
(37:46):
coastline to New York andthere's even a documentary, the
Wilmington Massacre.
And she came to New York, shecontinued her education, married
and in 30s and 40s a largepercentage of Black males were
either, you know, doormen, theyworked on the subway system,
they worked in maintenance andinterestingly, I don't know if
(38:08):
you ever heard of this school,stuyvesant High School.
It's an excellent school thatoutshines private and public
schools in New York.
And her two children were twoof five black children to
integrate Stuyvesant High School.
And you know I said to her, andshe continued her education and
(38:31):
became a dietician and sheretired.
I said when did you retire?
She said, you know, in late 90s, early 2000.
And I said, do you mind measking you how much you made?
She said $200 a week, butothers made more.
Read between the lines.
And you know I said to her itwas amazing.
(38:52):
I said to her you know you'regoing to need I was going to
offer her home care services andshe said I don't want anything
that's not mine.
And then I tell my team if youdon't communicate for what the
patient thinks, apologize, don'ttake it personal.
(39:13):
So I said I'm so sorry, maybe Ididn't explain it the way I
should.
She thought I was offering hera handout and I said you know
patients, all patients withMedicare home care services is
part of Medicare.
She said everyone.
I said yes, she said okay.
And so when you talk aboutcultural competence, what I
(39:37):
realized the elderly Blackpopulation is not a part of the
cultural competence conversation.
And when you recognize the roleof religion in this population
was pivotal to their survival,you know.
And when the patient said it'sin God's hands and some of the
(39:57):
people said well, she doesn'twant to participate in our care
because she blames God, I saidno, she truly believes it.
And I went to her and said Iknow God, you love God and God
loves you.
Would it be okay for us to helpyou with your medical condition
so we could please God as well?
(40:18):
And she said, sister, amen,shall we pray and she grabbed
our hands.
I'm telling you it was humblingand just a lot of the religion.
And when the patient said on aWednesday she stopped eating,
she stopped paying attention towhatever was being told to her
(40:40):
and she was depressed.
And the team said, you know,she's depressed, let's get, we
have to do a site referral fordepression screening, which is
protocol, absolutely.
I said, well, find out whatchurch she goes to and let me
know and the reason I told himto do that.
I went in to see her and I saiddo you mind telling what's
important to you?
(41:01):
And that's a key question.
I asked what's important to,not what I think should be
important to you.
What is important to you?
And this was a Wednesday.
She said the fact that I willnot be going to church on Sunday
and I won't be able to pleaseGod.
She felt guilty.
The minister brought her in.
The minister came in and toldher you know, even if prayed
(41:23):
with her and even if you're notdischarged on Sunday, I will
come back and pray with you.
She was a different individual,you know, and it's a learning
curve to understand that whenyou think of the atrocities that
African-American elderly endureand experience and the fact
(41:44):
that they have the worst healthoutcomes.
It's unconscionable and we wereable to decrease the
readmission for heart failurefrom 30% to 18.7 in just about
two years.
The population didn't changethe clinical care, the diagnosis
didn't change.
What changed was the heightenedhuman value.
He stopped with the negativityin the medical records X, y and
(42:09):
to recognize these patients arehuman beings like everybody else
, and it was humbling, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I am humbled.
I tell you that, when you justdescribed to us and how you got
a positive outcome throughcultural competency and to just
asking the great question whythen being able to communicate
at that level?
Now we hear from you and I'mnot hearing much of a New York
accent, I'm hearing a little bitof that Jamaican sound coming
(42:43):
from you, dr Beverly, and youunderstand, especially in New
York, such a melting pot.
Before I let you go and we'retoward the end of our catch,
this book is being released, Ibelieve, on Amazon.
It's Juneteenth.
Why did you pick Juneteenth asyour launch date?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Because it's a federal holiday, it's the end of
slavery 1865, and it's mybirthday.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Happy birthday, okay, happy birthday and, like I say,
if hospital systems adopt someof the simple solutions, because
it came from patients andcurrently they are not
considered as part of solutions.
And I look at it from anotherperspective perception, reality.
What is the perception?
(43:41):
You know you hear HCAP scoresright, and HCAP scores they do a
lot of surveys.
What does the patient thinkabout the care they receive, the
institutions and so forth.
But how many surveys have youheard?
What does the SPAD think aboutthe population they serve?
And you think that that couldhave an impact on the age gap
scores, good or bad?
(44:04):
And I did a survey with doctorshow many are taking five
medications, six medications,none.
Four medications the most weretaking were three.
And then there was one internthat was taking one.
So I said I'm going to assumeit's antibiotic.
He said yes, for 10 days.
I said are you compliant withyour medication?
(44:24):
He said, well, you know,sometimes I forget, I'm on my
shift, you know.
So I said you can't take onemedication compliantly.
But a patient that's takingfive or six medications, we now
call them noncompliant.
He said, well, I'm on my shift.
I said, well, patients, theyhave shifts as well.
You know what he said.
You're right, I won't use thatterm anymore.
(44:47):
I will ask why and when I dopresentations at different
institutions and there's asurvey and number seven is what
I focus on After hearing thepresentation of Dr Beverly, will
it change the way you engagepatients?
And 90-plus percent said yes,you know, and I think the
(45:08):
perception reality.
So what I would recommend whenI do surveys, when I hear what
doctors and clinical team andexecutives think, I ask the
patient the same question.
So they say why don't patientstake their medication?
And I ask the ED doc, theinpatient, the social worker,
everybody said guess what theysaid, boss, the average heart
failure patient is taking fiveor six medications three times a
(45:29):
day on morbid condition.
And what if I told you when Iasked the patients in the bed
why don't you take yourmedication?
What if I told you that oneperson mentioned cost.
Guess what the top answer waswe don't take our medication
because we think we're takingtoo many medications.
I can agree with that If you'regoing to design a system based
(45:52):
on cost.
You see how you fail, and sowhat do we do From the voices of
the persons who are actually inthe bed?
We brought our amazingpharmacist in to meet with the
team to see if we could combinemedication.
We cut out some of themedication, you know.
(46:13):
Let me ask you this, dr DarrellWe'll turn the end of our
conversation, but we cut outsome of the medication.
You know.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Let me ask you this, Dr Beverly.
Yes, we're toward the end ofour conversation, but I know the
audience still wants.
They want to get in contactwith you.
You have a training program.
Talk to us more about yourconsulting business.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yes, I do training and I present for patient
engagement and culturalcompetence training and I've
done it at various institutions.
I've done it at Northwell, I'vedone it at Toro Medical College
, I've done an Institute ofHealthcare Improvement, I've
done it in Chicago, I've done itin a bunch of other places,
(46:49):
university of Buffalo, and sothat's just off the top of my
head, and the whole idea is tobe able to have the institutions
change the culture and the goodnews is we're trained to do no
harm.
It's not that people are badpeople.
(47:12):
What you see are the changesthat come about.
It's not that people are badpeople.
What you see are the changesthat come about.
And once you give them thisparticular concept because it's
not a blame game, you know, it'sabout how do we better
communicate, value all humanbeings and improve their health
outcomes.
And what I do, I havedemonstrable circumstance where
(47:35):
it proven the bridge team isstill aware.
It's still at Elmhurst today.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Guess what they have added a pharmacist.
I will see that and to try tolisten to you and some of these
great techniques that you have,those simple solutions so, so
important.
If the audience needs to get intouch with you, what is the
best possible way?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
So at this point I'll give you my email address.
It's M Beverly B-E-V-E-R-L-E-Y.
M like in Mary D, like in Davidat gmailcom, my website is
being developed and it should beavailable before the 19th, and
it's DrBeverlycom.
So I'm meeting with thedevelopers this week to finalize
(48:24):
the website.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Excellent, excellent.
This has been a wonderful,wonderful discussion.
I wish you nothing but the beston your release.
Again, happy birthday to you,and I want to encourage your
entire audience to tune into allthe episodes of Follow Brand at
5 Star BDM, and that is thenumber 5 star B for Brand, d for
(48:46):
Development infomasterscom.
This has been wonderful and Iwill talk to you soon.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Thank you so much, man.
It's an honor, it's an honor tobe on this podcast with you.
Thank you, have a good rest ofthe day, looking forward to
speaking to you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Oh yes, for their incredible support on each and
every episode.
Now the journey continues onour YouTube channel Follow Brand
TV Series.
Dive into exclusive interviews,extended content and bonus
insights that will fuel yoursuccess.
Subscribe now and be a part ofour growing community, sharing
and learning together.
(49:30):
Explore, engage and elevate atFollow Brand TV Series on
YouTube.
Stay connected, stay inspired.
Till next time, we willcontinue building a five-star
brand that you can follow.
Popular Podcasts
Good Game with Sarah Spain
Good Game is your one-stop shop for the biggest stories in women’s sports. Every day, host Sarah Spain gives you the stories, stakes, stars and stats to keep up with your favorite women’s teams, leagues and athletes. Through thoughtful insight, witty banter, and an all around good time, Sarah and friends break down the latest news, talk about the games you can’t miss, and debate the issues of the day. Don’t miss interviews with the people of the moment, whether they be athletes, coaches, reporters, or celebrity fans.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.