September 17, 2025 • 30 mins
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In this episode, Dr. Alice Hoyt interviews Tamara Hubbard about her new book, 'May Contain Anxiety,' which addresses the challenges of parenting children with food allergies. They discuss the emotional journey of writing the book, the realities of food allergy-related anxiety, and practical strategies for parents to manage their fears while fostering resilience in their children. The conversation emphasizes the importance of communication with allergists, understanding values in parenting, and recognizing unhelpful approaches to anxiety. Tamara shares insights from her clinical experience and personal journey, providing valuable resources for families navigating food allergies.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Food Allergy and your Kiddo.
I'm your host, dr Alice Hoyt.
Very excited to have my friendand colleague, tamara Hubbard
here today to talk about heramazing new book May Contain
Anxiety Managing the Overwhelmof Parenting Children with Food
Allergies.
Tamara, welcome back to thepodcast, my friend.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thank you so much for having me.
I always say yes and lovecoming to chat with you on this
podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to have you andI think you know.
Thinking back to the first timeyou were on the podcast, I'm
pretty sure I just kind of likecold emailed you because I saw
like the amazing work you weredoing.
This was a few years ago too.
Oh my gosh, she needs to comeon the podcast.
I'm pretty sure that's how ourfriendship began.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That sounds great to me and I'm glad you did that.
I I've done that.
I share.
I don't know if I share in theback of the book and the
acknowledgements, but I I didthat for to an author and that
helped give me the courage towrite this book.
So I'm all for reaching out tosomebody you admire their work.
That's very cool and making anew friend.
I'm so glad you reached out.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I know because we have become friends and it's
been really nice because I feellike, even though I haven't read
the whole book, our friendshiphas grown as you've been writing
the book.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You went along for the ride of the writing of the
book.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yes, yes, yes, it was a great ride, and now to
actually like hold it in myhands is very cool, and so,
preparing for our interview, itwas fun to just really kind of
bounce around the book and findall the amazing like very
tactical, very I don't know,sometimes when I think about
anxiety kind of help books andthings like that in my mind I
(01:45):
don't know, sometimes when Ithink about anxiety kind of help
books and things like that inmy mind I'm first thinking like
is this going to be veryabstract?
But this is not abstract.
This has so much very goodconcrete content in it.
It's well referenced and itreally I mean it comes back to
your training, your licensedclinical professional counselor,
family therapist.
You provide very evidence-basedmedicine or counseling and
(02:09):
you've been doing this for manyyears, and so I want to start
our interview today with anexcerpt from your book that I
think gives insight as to whyyou wrote the book and part of
your journey, and then I'll askyou to opine.
So this is from yourintroduction.
Are you wondering how I made thetransition from letting the
(02:30):
overwhelm of parenting a childwith allergies derail me to now
writing a therapeutic book forallergy parents?
Here's the rest of my storyabout my entrance into the
allergy parenting club Love it.
In the very moment I decided itwas time to become the parent I
wanted to be, rather than theone my allergy anxiety was
(02:54):
pushing me to become.
Somewhere along the way, mygoal of just getting through
each day as an allergy parentbecame a goal to teach my son
that he could be resilient witha food allergy, even at a young
age, I couldn't imagine ourfamily living in fear our whole
lives, but I knew that if Iwanted my son to learn how to be
(03:16):
resilient, it was up to me topave the way first.
While living with a foodallergy was scary, I needed to
teach myself and then my son howto find a workable balance
between seeking safety to avoidreactions and enjoying life's
experiences.
It was my job as the parent tohelp us both work toward
(03:43):
accepting, adjusting andadapting to this new reality.
Beautiful Tamara, it's very raw.
It shows a lot of who you are,a lot of where you were at one
point in your allergy journey.
Because I know a lot of peopleare going to think oh well, you
know she's a therapist, she has,you know, all these skills,
(04:05):
she's got it all under control.
But to read that out loud andhear where you felt you were in
your journey many moons ago tonow where you are, and that you
took that knowledge, yourexpertise as a clinician, but
also your life experiences, tocreate something to help other
(04:29):
parents, is very beautiful.
So what are you thinking asyou're hearing those words?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I'm thinking who wrote that.
That's great.
It's kind of an out-of-bodyexperience to hear somebody read
your words that you, you know,very vulnerably shared, and
that's exactly what it is right,I might be and I am a licensed
clinician who does this work,who helps other families, but
I'm just a human being.
(04:55):
I'm just a mom who has a childwith a food allergy.
So at the core of all this, Iintimately, like you said,
understand what families aregoing through each and every day
, and that has really helpedshape me as a clinician doing
this work.
Everything's based in I alwayslike to say this part too
everything I do is based inevidence and clinical grounding,
(05:18):
right, so I lean into myclinical training.
So I lean into my clinicaltraining.
But that everyday living ofliving with food allergies and
parenting a child with foodallergies absolutely informs my
work and helps me connect withthose I'm working with and
hopefully helps me connect withthe people who are reading the
book too.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And I like to ask our guests how did you get into
this work and what is yourexperience that really motivated
you to serve this population?
The food allergy parentpopulation.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, so I mean simply stated it was.
My younger son was diagnosedwith a food allergy and we don't
have food allergies in ourfamily, so I wasn't very
familiar.
I knew kids in my older son'spreschool class who had food
allergies and so I was looselyaware that they existed.
But I didn't do this work.
Early on in my career I startedoff again.
(06:12):
I'm a trained family therapistso I've done couples counseling
and family therapy.
But I started in substanceabuse work with teenagers and
then I did inpatient work andcommunity mental health and
finally private practice.
But it was my son's diagnosis,living through it, knowing how
it felt as a parent, howoverwhelmed and anxious I felt
in those early years and stilldo, during different
(06:34):
transitional changes.
That doesn't go away.
I'm still the human parentgoing through this too.
And then I realized that therewas a gap in resources out there
for those living with usfamilies, individuals and
parents.
And so I started writing blogarticles on
thefoodallergycouncilcom.
That's quickly snowballed intopeople reaching out all over the
(06:54):
country saying I know you're atherapist, Can I work with you?
And unfortunately, due tolicensing laws, I can only work
with those in the states inwhich I'm licensed.
So that was very limited,started reaching out to other
therapists, thinking that therehave to be more people doing
this work or who want to do thiswork.
One thing led to another thatled to the Academy for Allergy
Counseling and its therapistdirectory to kind of grow this
(07:14):
niche and broaden how many of usare doing this work so that we
can help families.
And then somebody, a friend ofmine, said to me you should
write a book and I went, oh, howhard could that be?
And then I realized how hard itwas.
So I still persevered throughall of that hard book writing
(07:34):
stuff years of it, because Ifelt like what I had to say
needed to be out there in themasses.
And it's really, you know,psychologists and licensed
clinicians who aren't trained inmarriage and family therapy.
We all do the same work, but wemight look at it a little
differently.
So I felt that my background inmarriage and family therapy
really could serve in adifferent way, and so that's why
this book is written with thatin mind, that I am a family
(07:56):
therapist and my guidance iscoming from that point of view.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That is so cool and you know, when I was preparing
for this interview and kind ofpoking around your book I feel
like you know we've becomecloser friends through your
writing of your book and hearingyou talk about the different
parts of the book has been likeI kind of feel like it's like
deja vu when I'm looking at someof it.
(08:22):
It's like deja vu when I'mlooking at some of it, but I
would hear bits and pieces andwe would have conversations
about some parts of it.
So I really want to dive in andfor our audio listeners, I'm
flipping through the book rightnow.
If you're watching on YouTube,you're seeing me flip through
the book.
But I want to read out thenames of the chapters so that
families can really see that.
(08:43):
Our parents can really hearwhat is in this book.
It's really great stuff.
So exploring unhelpful allergyparenting narratives man, you
just dive right in there.
Huh, I can imagine commonallergy parenting traps.
That's so good.
Setting developmentally focusedallergy parenting goals I love
this.
We could do a whole series onthat, tamara.
(09:04):
Responding differently toanxious thoughts F focusing on
all that matters, not justallergy safety.
Developing flexibleperspectives on allergy
parenting and putting yourbalanced, mindful allergy
parenting plan into action.
So how did you come to reallysettle out on addressing these
(09:26):
issues and I mean, I just feellike you know a ton in this
space and so to kind of takeeverything out of your head and
put it onto paper, what weresome of your priorities in
reaching your audience, ouraudience of food allergy parents
?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You know and I think every author would say this that
there's probably so much morewe could have put into our book
or our work.
There's certainly, as I'mreading it, going oh, I wish I
would have added that or that,but like the book could have
been a million pages long, toyour point, any of us could
write forever on this stuff.
But my goal with this book wasto not just validate the very
(10:05):
real anxious feelings thatparents often have and the
overwhelm they feel, but tooffer some practical guidance
and then to help them understandwhat was behind that anxiety
and overwhelm.
We all talk about the anxietyand overwhelm, about the fear of
our child dying.
Of course that's the big fear,right?
An allergic reaction, ananaphylactic reaction and
(10:28):
ultimately death.
And so that is.
You know in a nutshell, no punintended, what fear is about.
But there's more to that fearand anxiety that keeps us from
parenting the way we want to.
That can impact our child'sdevelopment.
It can impact their owninternal narratives about what
it means to live with a foodallergy and exist in this world
with food allergies.
So my goal was to reallyprovide sort of all the stuff
(10:51):
behind the anxiety and overwhelm, beyond just hey, we're afraid
of our child having an allergicreaction and dying and we're
giving some guidance for how towalk through that, how to think
of it differently and ultimatelycreate a different relationship
with our food allergy anxiety,so that we could parent the way
we want to and not parent onautopilot anxiety autopilot.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Right, and so you know, for our listeners, the
likelihood of a child dying ofanaphylaxis is incredibly low.
It's incredibly unlikely, butwe all know that it happens.
The gravity and the tragedy, ifit were to happen, can be
(11:32):
overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And how I address that in the book.
Because, again, I'm verycareful in this book not to step
into the medical world.
I'm not a doctor, I'm atherapist and so I can speak on
all of that.
I'm educated, I'm licensed, I'man expert in that space, but I
don't ever want to talk aboutthe medical aspects because I'm
(11:55):
not a doctor.
So how I address that is yes,while the statistics might be
low and I put that in the bookthe statistics, the fear and
anxiety tells us it's muchbigger and makes us feel like
it's much more of a highernumber, and nobody wants to be
that statistic.
So that's kind of how I addressit is yes, I need you to know
(12:16):
that it's low, but I understandwhere that anxiety is coming
from, so let's address that, anda lot of the guidance in the
book comes from me.
But I understand where thatanxiety is coming from, so let's
address that.
And a lot of the guidance inthe book comes from me.
But also is to help families goback to their allergist or
allergy care team and ask reallyimportant questions that likely
haven't been asked or discussedin previous sessions.
So it's not just I'm giving youguidance on how to manage
(12:37):
anxiety, or what's behind all ofthe overwhelming anxiety, but
it's like have you had theseimportant conversations that are
quality of life enhancing,conversations that need you to
be having?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Right, we talk about that often in our carpool to
pick up children discussionsabout the patient experiences
that we see and how justupsetting it can be when a
family doesn't have thatevidence-based information,
doesn't have answers to theirfood allergy questions that are
impacting their lives so muchthat, you're exactly right, in
(13:10):
many cases only the allergistcan provide that information,
because all of our childrendeserve that very personalized
approach to their food allergycare.
And so you know, you can go onand read about the symptoms of
anaphylaxis and when to use anautoinjector.
And then we haven't even reallykind of broached the other food
(13:31):
allergies.
You know eosinophilicesophagitis, fpi, how those can
present and the anxiety and foodavoidance and all these things
and just how important it is tohave good information from your
allergist and bring yourquestions, write down your
questions on paper and bringthem to your allergist and say
(13:51):
these are the questions, becauseI know when I go to the doctor
sometimes like my mind just kindof goes blank and it's just
like I could put the questionsin my notes app on my phone.
But then I'm like fumblingaround with my phone and like
anytime, like I could put thequestions in my notes app on my
phone.
But then I'm like fumblingaround with my phone and like
anytime, like you know, you'relooking at your phone and
somebody else is like okay, well, I guess they're looking.
You know what I mean.
Like it's just so much easierjust to have it written down on
(14:11):
paper.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, and sometimes you need to digest what you've
heard, yeah, and then you comeup with new questions or
curiosities.
You know I tell familiesanytime.
Excellent point A millionpercent.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Especially when you're getting a new diagnosis,
like as soon as you're told yourchild has something, your mind
goes like where?
And so then you're missing.
What 40% of the rest?
That's totally like arbitrarynumber, but that's just what I
feel is like you're missing.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Well then, there's so much to cover.
There's so much to cover thatinitially like so, if we're
talking about that initialdiagnosis, it is overwhelming a
lot of times because you'regetting the information to help
you just sort of live with thisfood allergy and learn about it.
And then you get into theactual living and then you're
like well, how do I deal withthis?
(14:56):
How do I navigate this?
Am I telling me this is unsafe?
Is it unsafe, right?
The way that I talk about it inthe book is our anxious minds
want us to think risk is all ornothing.
It's either completely riskyand we should avoid it, or
there's some kind of like placewhere nothing is risky.
Right and sure, we could keepour kids home in a bubble and
(15:18):
really kind of lower that riskto as small as we can.
But there's risk in everythingwe do, unfortunately, and
there's a lack of certainty ineverything we do.
So the way I talk about it islearning how to determine and
this comes from guidance fromthe allergist and allergy care
team what is safe to do withyour food allergy, what is safe
(15:39):
enough meaning there's some risk, but it's a small level of risk
or it's a level of risk I'mokay with taking for the quality
of life experience I'm having,or it's just not safe.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So, this is so interesting because you and I
were talking about this theother day, because I land
patients in a.
This is either safe for yourchild or this is not safe, and
so I don't.
So I don't hedge in the safeenough, because it's either
going to be safe, a safeactivity or, in the case of this
, is probably the biggest one.
I hear about a kiddo who'sallergic to peanuts and can they
(16:14):
eat foods that are fried inhighly refined peanut oil, and
highly refined peanut oil doesnot contain peanut protein and
so it is safe.
For kids who have an IgEmediated anaphylactic peanut
allergy, it is safe, whereassome people might feel like, oh
well, it contains peanut, but Iguess it's safe enough.
(16:34):
But I feel like my job as theallergist is to be very clear on
what's a safe activity andwhat's not safe, and the same
activity could be safe or notsafe depending on how it's
approached.
The thing that comes to my mindwould be dining out.
You know, it can be very safeto go out to a restaurant having
food allergies, if you do itproperly, if you follow some
(16:59):
certain strategies wherecommunication is the biggest of
those strategies.
Right, and that could be awhole nother podcast, but it
could also be done in a waythat's not safe and ultimately
having these discussions withyour allergist, but then also
navigating the anxiety thatcomes along from these day in,
(17:19):
day out decisions, because,ultimately, how many times a day
is a child eating and that'sthe number of times a day of a
potential risk of a reaction ifgood strategies aren't
implemented.
And then thinking about that,and so that's why I love your
book, because first of all, itvalidates that families can and
(17:42):
do have food allergy-associatedanxiety, but then it does.
It's very practical and I wantto ask you how and I probably
should ask this in the verybeginning how do you define food
allergy-related anxiety?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You know I mean the clinical research definition is
really an anxiety that isfocused on something pertaining
to living with a food allergy,and it's oftentimes focused more
specifically on things such asthe fear of an allergic reaction
.
It could include needle phobiawhen we go to appointments,
right?
It's different than generalizedanxiety, where we're anxious
(18:22):
about a number of things acrossa number of domains and it's not
just sort of one theme,although allergy anxiety could
give way to being much moreanxious about a lot of things.
But it's usually tied to thatfear of staying safe and an
allergic reaction and somethingbad happening.
And there's even a newconstruct that Melissa Engel put
(18:42):
out recently I was just readingan article that she's proposing
this construct of food allergy,food allergy, social anxiety
right.
So it's sort of like anextension of that, where we see
social anxiety focused on thefood allergy piece, right?
So it really is just that it'sspecific about food allergy and
it's not just the person withthe food allergy who can feel
this, of course, it's parents,it's families, it's caregivers,
(19:04):
it's you know, we can be anxiousabout the food allergy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
And transfer that and transfer that.
Yeah, yeah, I want to talk moreabout values, because in
Chapter 5, you really dive intowhat values are and what they're
not and this is a chapterfocusing on all that matters,
not just allergy safety and thiscomes back to what is safe,
(19:30):
what's not safe, managing thefood, allergy anxiety and talk
some about values.
You have a really nice list ofwhat values are and why is it
really important to kind ofsolidify what your values are?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, so this comes from the acceptance and
commitment therapy, or ACTtheory.
So a couple of the laterchapters are a lot more sort of
grounded in therapy theory, soto speak.
And so, in ACT, values are Icall them sort of our guiding
stars, our North Stars, our GPScoordinates right?
(20:07):
They're the things we want toembody.
They help us live the way wewant to.
They help us teach our kids,you know, how to live, the
characteristics to have, so itmight be like to be somebody
who's loving, somebody who'sadventurous, who learns to be
independent, who's responsible,who's trustworthy, right?
Those are examples of values,just a short sample of values.
(20:30):
There's a long, long list ofvalues, and so what I found is
that families, of course,understandably so who manage
food allergies are reallyfocused on the value of safety
and protection, because, ofcourse, they are right.
However, what often happensbecause we're seeking control
and we want to, you know,respond to our anxiety by
(20:50):
seeking that control and calmingthe fear we feel we tend to
only focus on safety andprotection, that value, and when
we do that, we then push awayoftentimes other values that are
important, that we want ourkids to develop, that we want to
live by, that are important forus, so, for example, the
(21:11):
adventure, the value of beingadventurous.
You know traveling that feelsvery hard, so we stopped doing
that because of safety reasons,and so my point in that chapter
and throughout the book is thatsafety and protection is
absolutely going to stay a topvalue, if not the top value.
With allergy families, however,we can focus on multiple values
at once, and I'm encouragingparents to do that, and that's
(21:34):
what that chapter title is about.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
That's so good.
And you have in here pause andreflect.
That's so good.
And you have in here, pause andreflect, clarifying your values
, and I think it's wonderful tohave parents sit and think your
parenting values, your familyvalues, why focusing only on the
value of safety can beproblematic.
It can lead to values conflicts, imbalances, reinforce
(21:59):
unhelpful approaches toanxious-related,
anxious-allergy-related thoughts.
This is all so good, tamara.
Let's talk about some of thoseunhelpful approaches to anxiety,
allergy-related thoughts.
What are some of the commonones that you see?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Well, I think the biggest one is just believing
everything our anxious mindtells us to be true, right?
So if we have an anxiousthought about something being
unsafe, we tend to automaticallybelieve that, because our mind
boils it down of this is helpingus do in the book is
recognizing that it'sunderstandable to feel anxious,
(22:46):
that we are going to haveanxious thoughts, but that we
need to See them, approach them,be more curious about them.
And one of the things that Iencourage people to remember is
that anxiety isn't just therebecause something is unsafe.
That's one possibility.
Anxiety can also show up ifsomething is new, unknown.
We don't know the outcome,we've never done it.
(23:08):
So when you think about firststarting to go out to a
restaurant or traveling thosefirst few times, you're going to
feel really anxious.
Your mind might convince youit's because it's not safe and
that is a possibility.
But if you've talked with yourallergist and you've worked
through and you've communicated,it's probably safe or safe
(23:30):
enough.
Again, I'm not 100% risk-free,I know that's the difference.
When you were talking aboutthat, I was like, again, I'm not
100% risk-free, I know that'sthe difference.
When you were talking aboutthat, I was like, well, that's
the medical point of view.
And again it does boil down toit's like collaborative
decision-making.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It does boil down to Well, it's not all black and
white, right and how one kiddowith the same exact food
allergies, the same exact age ismanaged medically, from a
mental health standpoint,socially, can be different from
a different child.
It often is very differentbecause our children are
(24:05):
different.
We as parents are different.
We have different values, asyou talk about in your book.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, and that's why I think it's important that
middle category of safe enoughis yeah, ultimately, we want
allergists and allergy careteams to tell you what's safe
and not safe, but I don't wantpeople living in the all or
nothing space.
There's cognitive distortionsthat get us caught up and then
we're stuck and then we're nottaking values, aligned actions
and our quality of lifedecreases.
(24:31):
I need people to and I bring itup in the book have a little
more flexibility, even thoughour anxiety tells us to be more
rigid, and so that little middlespace helps us recognize that
some things are not going to be100% risk-free, but they're
still worth doing and they'resafe enough to be doing, deemed
by our medical team.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I love and I love that we can ultimately like I
think ultimately we agree on howwe're approaching patients.
We have some disagreement insome of the approach here and I
think where a lot of that comesfrom is the education one should
(25:11):
receive from their allergist.
We talk all the time abouthealthcare and how healthcare
has gone to a place that doesn'talways have the patient's best
interests and where I hear frommy colleagues about having to
see more and more patients,which we love seeing patients,
but in less amount of time.
(25:32):
And when you have to counsel afamily on how to use an
epinephrine auto-injector, thelife-saving medication, you have
a finite amount of time.
You can choose that.
Or you can choose talking abouteating at a restaurant, even
though eating at a restaurant issuper important and super
important for quality of life.
If you have finite amount oftime, then of course the
(25:54):
life-saving medication, thosetypes of more medical topics,
are going to get more time.
And yeah, in chapter four thatchapter before the focusing on,
all that matters is theresponding differently to
anxious thoughts.
There's so much good, goodstuff in this book, tamara, as
we're kind of wrapping up here,what have I not kind of?
(26:19):
I mean, there's so much.
I haven't discussed what's someof your favorite parts about
the book.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You know, one of the chapters I focus on, it's a
phrase that I coined, it'scalled allergy parenting traps,
and so these are behaviors orbehavioral patterns that we
engage in as parents andcaregivers that are in service
of keeping our child safe, andthey do keep our child safe, but
they also so in the short term.
They are effective in that way,but in the long term they tend
to cause more challenges orbecome problematic, right.
(26:50):
So things like comparingourselves to other families and
how they manage their foodallergies, like over avoidance,
beyond what's medicallynecessary, over functioning for
our child, because it's a way tokeep our anxiety calmed.
But yet our child isn't learninghow to manage age appropriately
and that becomes a problem asthey get older Resentment trap,
(27:14):
the burnout trap.
So that's another importantchapter, as I described in the
beginning of the book, of thethings behind the anxiety and
overwhelm we feel that I thinkparents are going to resonate
with and go oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Wow.
I'm just kind of like flippingthrough right now.
I'm like I should ask aboutthat, but this interview could
literally go on for five hours.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I'm sure it could Plus, we can talk for hours.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That helps.
So we're just going to have tohave you back on the show, my
friend.
The book will be out you canpreorder now.
May contain anxiety managingthe overwhelm of parenting
children with food allergyanxiety children with food
allergies.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Who may have food allergy anxiety too?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
yes, who may have it too right, especially if we, as
parents, are not managing ours?
Where can they get thisexceptional book, tamara?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, so pretty much anywhere books are sold.
They can find more informationabout it on my website,
wwwfoodallergycounselorcom.
Backslash book.
It's available as of September30th here in North America a
little bit later in othercountries because of
distribution, but it'll beavailable in paperback,
hardcover, e-booker, kindle andaudio book as well, published by
(28:31):
Johns Hopkins, yep, and thenthe audio book is published by
Dreamscape or RB Media.
Yeah, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well done, my friend, and thank you not just for
coming on here but creating suchan excellent resource for our
listeners, for my patients, mypatients' parents, really for
the entire G-food allergyAllergy community.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me onto talk about it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Remember I'm an allergist, butI'm not your allergist.
So talk with your allergistabout what you learned today.
Like subscribe, share this withyour friends and go to
foodallergyandyourkiddocom whereyou can join our newsletter.
God bless you and God blessyour family.
Hello and welcome to Food Allergy and your Kiddo.
I'm your host, dr Alice Hoyt.
Very excited to have my friendand colleague, tamara Hubbard
here today to talk about heramazing new book May Contain
Anxiety Managing the Overwhelmof Parenting Children with Food
Allergies.
Tamara, welcome back to thepodcast, my friend.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thank you so much for having me.
I always say yes and lovecoming to chat with you on this
podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to have you andI think you know.
Thinking back to the first timeyou were on the podcast, I'm
pretty sure I just kind of likecold emailed you because I saw
like the amazing work you weredoing.
This was a few years ago too.
Oh my gosh, she needs to comeon the podcast.
I'm pretty sure that's how ourfriendship began.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That sounds great to me and I'm glad you did that.
I I've done that.
I share.
I don't know if I share in theback of the book and the
acknowledgements, but I I didthat for to an author and that
helped give me the courage towrite this book.
So I'm all for reaching out tosomebody you admire their work.
That's very cool and making anew friend.
I'm so glad you reached out.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I know because we have become friends and it's
been really nice because I feellike, even though I haven't read
the whole book, our friendshiphas grown as you've been writing
the book.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You went along for the ride of the writing of the
book.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yes, yes, yes, it was a great ride, and now to
actually like hold it in myhands is very cool, and so,
preparing for our interview, itwas fun to just really kind of
bounce around the book and findall the amazing like very
tactical, very I don't know,sometimes when I think about
anxiety kind of help books andthings like that in my mind I
(01:45):
don't know, sometimes when Ithink about anxiety kind of help
books and things like that inmy mind I'm first thinking like
is this going to be veryabstract?
But this is not abstract.
This has so much very goodconcrete content in it.
It's well referenced and itreally I mean it comes back to
your training, your licensedclinical professional counselor,
family therapist.
You provide very evidence-basedmedicine or counseling and
(02:09):
you've been doing this for manyyears, and so I want to start
our interview today with anexcerpt from your book that I
think gives insight as to whyyou wrote the book and part of
your journey, and then I'll askyou to opine.
So this is from yourintroduction.
Are you wondering how I made thetransition from letting the
(02:30):
overwhelm of parenting a childwith allergies derail me to now
writing a therapeutic book forallergy parents?
Here's the rest of my storyabout my entrance into the
allergy parenting club Love it.
In the very moment I decided itwas time to become the parent I
wanted to be, rather than theone my allergy anxiety was
(02:54):
pushing me to become.
Somewhere along the way, mygoal of just getting through
each day as an allergy parentbecame a goal to teach my son
that he could be resilient witha food allergy, even at a young
age, I couldn't imagine ourfamily living in fear our whole
lives, but I knew that if Iwanted my son to learn how to be
(03:16):
resilient, it was up to me topave the way first.
While living with a foodallergy was scary, I needed to
teach myself and then my son howto find a workable balance
between seeking safety to avoidreactions and enjoying life's
experiences.
It was my job as the parent tohelp us both work toward
(03:43):
accepting, adjusting andadapting to this new reality.
Beautiful Tamara, it's very raw.
It shows a lot of who you are,a lot of where you were at one
point in your allergy journey.
Because I know a lot of peopleare going to think oh well, you
know she's a therapist, she has,you know, all these skills,
(04:05):
she's got it all under control.
But to read that out loud andhear where you felt you were in
your journey many moons ago tonow where you are, and that you
took that knowledge, yourexpertise as a clinician, but
also your life experiences, tocreate something to help other
(04:29):
parents, is very beautiful.
So what are you thinking asyou're hearing those words?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I'm thinking who wrote that.
That's great.
It's kind of an out-of-bodyexperience to hear somebody read
your words that you, you know,very vulnerably shared, and
that's exactly what it is right,I might be and I am a licensed
clinician who does this work,who helps other families, but
I'm just a human being.
(04:55):
I'm just a mom who has a childwith a food allergy.
So at the core of all this, Iintimately, like you said,
understand what families aregoing through each and every day
, and that has really helpedshape me as a clinician doing
this work.
Everything's based in I alwayslike to say this part too
everything I do is based inevidence and clinical grounding,
(05:18):
right, so I lean into myclinical training.
So I lean into my clinicaltraining.
But that everyday living ofliving with food allergies and
parenting a child with foodallergies absolutely informs my
work and helps me connect withthose I'm working with and
hopefully helps me connect withthe people who are reading the
book too.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And I like to ask our guests how did you get into
this work and what is yourexperience that really motivated
you to serve this population?
The food allergy parentpopulation.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, so I mean simply stated it was.
My younger son was diagnosedwith a food allergy and we don't
have food allergies in ourfamily, so I wasn't very
familiar.
I knew kids in my older son'spreschool class who had food
allergies and so I was looselyaware that they existed.
But I didn't do this work.
Early on in my career I startedoff again.
(06:12):
I'm a trained family therapistso I've done couples counseling
and family therapy.
But I started in substanceabuse work with teenagers and
then I did inpatient work andcommunity mental health and
finally private practice.
But it was my son's diagnosis,living through it, knowing how
it felt as a parent, howoverwhelmed and anxious I felt
in those early years and stilldo, during different
(06:34):
transitional changes.
That doesn't go away.
I'm still the human parentgoing through this too.
And then I realized that therewas a gap in resources out there
for those living with usfamilies, individuals and
parents.
And so I started writing blogarticles on
thefoodallergycouncilcom.
That's quickly snowballed intopeople reaching out all over the
(06:54):
country saying I know you're atherapist, Can I work with you?
And unfortunately, due tolicensing laws, I can only work
with those in the states inwhich I'm licensed.
So that was very limited,started reaching out to other
therapists, thinking that therehave to be more people doing
this work or who want to do thiswork.
One thing led to another thatled to the Academy for Allergy
Counseling and its therapistdirectory to kind of grow this
(07:14):
niche and broaden how many of usare doing this work so that we
can help families.
And then somebody, a friend ofmine, said to me you should
write a book and I went, oh, howhard could that be?
And then I realized how hard itwas.
So I still persevered throughall of that hard book writing
(07:34):
stuff years of it, because Ifelt like what I had to say
needed to be out there in themasses.
And it's really, you know,psychologists and licensed
clinicians who aren't trained inmarriage and family therapy.
We all do the same work, but wemight look at it a little
differently.
So I felt that my background inmarriage and family therapy
really could serve in adifferent way, and so that's why
this book is written with thatin mind, that I am a family
(07:56):
therapist and my guidance iscoming from that point of view.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That is so cool and you know, when I was preparing
for this interview and kind ofpoking around your book I feel
like you know we've becomecloser friends through your
writing of your book and hearingyou talk about the different
parts of the book has been likeI kind of feel like it's like
deja vu when I'm looking at someof it.
(08:22):
It's like deja vu when I'mlooking at some of it, but I
would hear bits and pieces andwe would have conversations
about some parts of it.
So I really want to dive in andfor our audio listeners, I'm
flipping through the book rightnow.
If you're watching on YouTube,you're seeing me flip through
the book.
But I want to read out thenames of the chapters so that
families can really see that.
(08:43):
Our parents can really hearwhat is in this book.
It's really great stuff.
So exploring unhelpful allergyparenting narratives man, you
just dive right in there.
Huh, I can imagine commonallergy parenting traps.
That's so good.
Setting developmentally focusedallergy parenting goals I love
this.
We could do a whole series onthat, tamara.
(09:04):
Responding differently toanxious thoughts F focusing on
all that matters, not justallergy safety.
Developing flexibleperspectives on allergy
parenting and putting yourbalanced, mindful allergy
parenting plan into action.
So how did you come to reallysettle out on addressing these
(09:26):
issues and I mean, I just feellike you know a ton in this
space and so to kind of takeeverything out of your head and
put it onto paper, what weresome of your priorities in
reaching your audience, ouraudience of food allergy parents
?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You know and I think every author would say this that
there's probably so much morewe could have put into our book
or our work.
There's certainly, as I'mreading it, going oh, I wish I
would have added that or that,but like the book could have
been a million pages long, toyour point, any of us could
write forever on this stuff.
But my goal with this book wasto not just validate the very
(10:05):
real anxious feelings thatparents often have and the
overwhelm they feel, but tooffer some practical guidance
and then to help them understandwhat was behind that anxiety
and overwhelm.
We all talk about the anxietyand overwhelm, about the fear of
our child dying.
Of course that's the big fear,right?
An allergic reaction, ananaphylactic reaction and
(10:28):
ultimately death.
And so that is.
You know in a nutshell, no punintended, what fear is about.
But there's more to that fearand anxiety that keeps us from
parenting the way we want to.
That can impact our child'sdevelopment.
It can impact their owninternal narratives about what
it means to live with a foodallergy and exist in this world
with food allergies.
So my goal was to reallyprovide sort of all the stuff
(10:51):
behind the anxiety and overwhelm, beyond just hey, we're afraid
of our child having an allergicreaction and dying and we're
giving some guidance for how towalk through that, how to think
of it differently and ultimatelycreate a different relationship
with our food allergy anxiety,so that we could parent the way
we want to and not parent onautopilot anxiety autopilot.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Right, and so you know, for our listeners, the
likelihood of a child dying ofanaphylaxis is incredibly low.
It's incredibly unlikely, butwe all know that it happens.
The gravity and the tragedy, ifit were to happen, can be
(11:32):
overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And how I address that in the book.
Because, again, I'm verycareful in this book not to step
into the medical world.
I'm not a doctor, I'm atherapist and so I can speak on
all of that.
I'm educated, I'm licensed, I'man expert in that space, but I
don't ever want to talk aboutthe medical aspects because I'm
(11:55):
not a doctor.
So how I address that is yes,while the statistics might be
low and I put that in the bookthe statistics, the fear and
anxiety tells us it's muchbigger and makes us feel like
it's much more of a highernumber, and nobody wants to be
that statistic.
So that's kind of how I addressit is yes, I need you to know
(12:16):
that it's low, but I understandwhere that anxiety is coming
from, so let's address that, anda lot of the guidance in the
book comes from me.
But I understand where thatanxiety is coming from, so let's
address that.
And a lot of the guidance inthe book comes from me.
But also is to help families goback to their allergist or
allergy care team and ask reallyimportant questions that likely
haven't been asked or discussedin previous sessions.
So it's not just I'm giving youguidance on how to manage
(12:37):
anxiety, or what's behind all ofthe overwhelming anxiety, but
it's like have you had theseimportant conversations that are
quality of life enhancing,conversations that need you to
be having?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Right, we talk about that often in our carpool to
pick up children discussionsabout the patient experiences
that we see and how justupsetting it can be when a
family doesn't have thatevidence-based information,
doesn't have answers to theirfood allergy questions that are
impacting their lives so muchthat, you're exactly right, in
(13:10):
many cases only the allergistcan provide that information,
because all of our childrendeserve that very personalized
approach to their food allergycare.
And so you know, you can go onand read about the symptoms of
anaphylaxis and when to use anautoinjector.
And then we haven't even reallykind of broached the other food
(13:31):
allergies.
You know eosinophilicesophagitis, fpi, how those can
present and the anxiety and foodavoidance and all these things
and just how important it is tohave good information from your
allergist and bring yourquestions, write down your
questions on paper and bringthem to your allergist and say
(13:51):
these are the questions, becauseI know when I go to the doctor
sometimes like my mind just kindof goes blank and it's just
like I could put the questionsin my notes app on my phone.
But then I'm like fumblingaround with my phone and like
anytime, like I could put thequestions in my notes app on my
phone.
But then I'm like fumblingaround with my phone and like
anytime, like you know, you'relooking at your phone and
somebody else is like okay, well, I guess they're looking.
You know what I mean.
Like it's just so much easierjust to have it written down on
(14:11):
paper.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, and sometimes you need to digest what you've
heard, yeah, and then you comeup with new questions or
curiosities.
You know I tell familiesanytime.
Excellent point A millionpercent.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Especially when you're getting a new diagnosis,
like as soon as you're told yourchild has something, your mind
goes like where?
And so then you're missing.
What 40% of the rest?
That's totally like arbitrarynumber, but that's just what I
feel is like you're missing.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Well then, there's so much to cover.
There's so much to cover thatinitially like so, if we're
talking about that initialdiagnosis, it is overwhelming a
lot of times because you'regetting the information to help
you just sort of live with thisfood allergy and learn about it.
And then you get into theactual living and then you're
like well, how do I deal withthis?
(14:56):
How do I navigate this?
Am I telling me this is unsafe?
Is it unsafe, right?
The way that I talk about it inthe book is our anxious minds
want us to think risk is all ornothing.
It's either completely riskyand we should avoid it, or
there's some kind of like placewhere nothing is risky.
Right and sure, we could keepour kids home in a bubble and
(15:18):
really kind of lower that riskto as small as we can.
But there's risk in everythingwe do, unfortunately, and
there's a lack of certainty ineverything we do.
So the way I talk about it islearning how to determine and
this comes from guidance fromthe allergist and allergy care
team what is safe to do withyour food allergy, what is safe
(15:39):
enough meaning there's some risk, but it's a small level of risk
or it's a level of risk I'mokay with taking for the quality
of life experience I'm having,or it's just not safe.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So, this is so interesting because you and I
were talking about this theother day, because I land
patients in a.
This is either safe for yourchild or this is not safe, and
so I don't.
So I don't hedge in the safeenough, because it's either
going to be safe, a safeactivity or, in the case of this
, is probably the biggest one.
I hear about a kiddo who'sallergic to peanuts and can they
(16:14):
eat foods that are fried inhighly refined peanut oil, and
highly refined peanut oil doesnot contain peanut protein and
so it is safe.
For kids who have an IgEmediated anaphylactic peanut
allergy, it is safe, whereassome people might feel like, oh
well, it contains peanut, but Iguess it's safe enough.
(16:34):
But I feel like my job as theallergist is to be very clear on
what's a safe activity andwhat's not safe, and the same
activity could be safe or notsafe depending on how it's
approached.
The thing that comes to my mindwould be dining out.
You know, it can be very safeto go out to a restaurant having
food allergies, if you do itproperly, if you follow some
(16:59):
certain strategies wherecommunication is the biggest of
those strategies.
Right, and that could be awhole nother podcast, but it
could also be done in a waythat's not safe and ultimately
having these discussions withyour allergist, but then also
navigating the anxiety thatcomes along from these day in,
(17:19):
day out decisions, because,ultimately, how many times a day
is a child eating and that'sthe number of times a day of a
potential risk of a reaction ifgood strategies aren't
implemented.
And then thinking about that,and so that's why I love your
book, because first of all, itvalidates that families can and
(17:42):
do have food allergy-associatedanxiety, but then it does.
It's very practical and I wantto ask you how and I probably
should ask this in the verybeginning how do you define food
allergy-related anxiety?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You know I mean the clinical research definition is
really an anxiety that isfocused on something pertaining
to living with a food allergy,and it's oftentimes focused more
specifically on things such asthe fear of an allergic reaction
.
It could include needle phobiawhen we go to appointments,
right?
It's different than generalizedanxiety, where we're anxious
(18:22):
about a number of things acrossa number of domains and it's not
just sort of one theme,although allergy anxiety could
give way to being much moreanxious about a lot of things.
But it's usually tied to thatfear of staying safe and an
allergic reaction and somethingbad happening.
And there's even a newconstruct that Melissa Engel put
(18:42):
out recently I was just readingan article that she's proposing
this construct of food allergy,food allergy, social anxiety
right.
So it's sort of like anextension of that, where we see
social anxiety focused on thefood allergy piece, right?
So it really is just that it'sspecific about food allergy and
it's not just the person withthe food allergy who can feel
this, of course, it's parents,it's families, it's caregivers,
(19:04):
it's you know, we can be anxiousabout the food allergy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
And transfer that and transfer that.
Yeah, yeah, I want to talk moreabout values, because in
Chapter 5, you really dive intowhat values are and what they're
not and this is a chapterfocusing on all that matters,
not just allergy safety and thiscomes back to what is safe,
(19:30):
what's not safe, managing thefood, allergy anxiety and talk
some about values.
You have a really nice list ofwhat values are and why is it
really important to kind ofsolidify what your values are?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, so this comes from the acceptance and
commitment therapy, or ACTtheory.
So a couple of the laterchapters are a lot more sort of
grounded in therapy theory, soto speak.
And so, in ACT, values are Icall them sort of our guiding
stars, our North Stars, our GPScoordinates right?
(20:07):
They're the things we want toembody.
They help us live the way wewant to.
They help us teach our kids,you know, how to live, the
characteristics to have, so itmight be like to be somebody
who's loving, somebody who'sadventurous, who learns to be
independent, who's responsible,who's trustworthy, right?
Those are examples of values,just a short sample of values.
(20:30):
There's a long, long list ofvalues, and so what I found is
that families, of course,understandably so who manage
food allergies are reallyfocused on the value of safety
and protection, because, ofcourse, they are right.
However, what often happensbecause we're seeking control
and we want to, you know,respond to our anxiety by
(20:50):
seeking that control and calmingthe fear we feel we tend to
only focus on safety andprotection, that value, and when
we do that, we then push awayoftentimes other values that are
important, that we want ourkids to develop, that we want to
live by, that are important forus, so, for example, the
(21:11):
adventure, the value of beingadventurous.
You know traveling that feelsvery hard, so we stopped doing
that because of safety reasons,and so my point in that chapter
and throughout the book is thatsafety and protection is
absolutely going to stay a topvalue, if not the top value.
With allergy families, however,we can focus on multiple values
at once, and I'm encouragingparents to do that, and that's
(21:34):
what that chapter title is about.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
That's so good.
And you have in here pause andreflect.
That's so good.
And you have in here, pause andreflect, clarifying your values
, and I think it's wonderful tohave parents sit and think your
parenting values, your familyvalues, why focusing only on the
value of safety can beproblematic.
It can lead to values conflicts, imbalances, reinforce
(21:59):
unhelpful approaches toanxious-related,
anxious-allergy-related thoughts.
This is all so good, tamara.
Let's talk about some of thoseunhelpful approaches to anxiety,
allergy-related thoughts.
What are some of the commonones that you see?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Well, I think the biggest one is just believing
everything our anxious mindtells us to be true, right?
So if we have an anxiousthought about something being
unsafe, we tend to automaticallybelieve that, because our mind
boils it down of this is helpingus do in the book is
recognizing that it'sunderstandable to feel anxious,
(22:46):
that we are going to haveanxious thoughts, but that we
need to See them, approach them,be more curious about them.
And one of the things that Iencourage people to remember is
that anxiety isn't just therebecause something is unsafe.
That's one possibility.
Anxiety can also show up ifsomething is new, unknown.
We don't know the outcome,we've never done it.
(23:08):
So when you think about firststarting to go out to a
restaurant or traveling thosefirst few times, you're going to
feel really anxious.
Your mind might convince youit's because it's not safe and
that is a possibility.
But if you've talked with yourallergist and you've worked
through and you've communicated,it's probably safe or safe
(23:30):
enough.
Again, I'm not 100% risk-free,I know that's the difference.
When you were talking aboutthat, I was like, again, I'm not
100% risk-free, I know that'sthe difference.
When you were talking aboutthat, I was like, well, that's
the medical point of view.
And again it does boil down toit's like collaborative
decision-making.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It does boil down to Well, it's not all black and
white, right and how one kiddowith the same exact food
allergies, the same exact age ismanaged medically, from a
mental health standpoint,socially, can be different from
a different child.
It often is very differentbecause our children are
(24:05):
different.
We as parents are different.
We have different values, asyou talk about in your book.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, and that's why I think it's important that
middle category of safe enoughis yeah, ultimately, we want
allergists and allergy careteams to tell you what's safe
and not safe, but I don't wantpeople living in the all or
nothing space.
There's cognitive distortionsthat get us caught up and then
we're stuck and then we're nottaking values, aligned actions
and our quality of lifedecreases.
(24:31):
I need people to and I bring itup in the book have a little
more flexibility, even thoughour anxiety tells us to be more
rigid, and so that little middlespace helps us recognize that
some things are not going to be100% risk-free, but they're
still worth doing and they'resafe enough to be doing, deemed
by our medical team.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I love and I love that we can ultimately like I
think ultimately we agree on howwe're approaching patients.
We have some disagreement insome of the approach here and I
think where a lot of that comesfrom is the education one should
(25:11):
receive from their allergist.
We talk all the time abouthealthcare and how healthcare
has gone to a place that doesn'talways have the patient's best
interests and where I hear frommy colleagues about having to
see more and more patients,which we love seeing patients,
but in less amount of time.
(25:32):
And when you have to counsel afamily on how to use an
epinephrine auto-injector, thelife-saving medication, you have
a finite amount of time.
You can choose that.
Or you can choose talking abouteating at a restaurant, even
though eating at a restaurant issuper important and super
important for quality of life.
If you have finite amount oftime, then of course the
(25:54):
life-saving medication, thosetypes of more medical topics,
are going to get more time.
And yeah, in chapter four thatchapter before the focusing on,
all that matters is theresponding differently to
anxious thoughts.
There's so much good, goodstuff in this book, tamara, as
we're kind of wrapping up here,what have I not kind of?
(26:19):
I mean, there's so much.
I haven't discussed what's someof your favorite parts about
the book.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You know, one of the chapters I focus on, it's a
phrase that I coined, it'scalled allergy parenting traps,
and so these are behaviors orbehavioral patterns that we
engage in as parents andcaregivers that are in service
of keeping our child safe, andthey do keep our child safe, but
they also so in the short term.
They are effective in that way,but in the long term they tend
to cause more challenges orbecome problematic, right.
(26:50):
So things like comparingourselves to other families and
how they manage their foodallergies, like over avoidance,
beyond what's medicallynecessary, over functioning for
our child, because it's a way tokeep our anxiety calmed.
But yet our child isn't learninghow to manage age appropriately
and that becomes a problem asthey get older Resentment trap,
(27:14):
the burnout trap.
So that's another importantchapter, as I described in the
beginning of the book, of thethings behind the anxiety and
overwhelm we feel that I thinkparents are going to resonate
with and go oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Wow.
I'm just kind of like flippingthrough right now.
I'm like I should ask aboutthat, but this interview could
literally go on for five hours.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I'm sure it could Plus, we can talk for hours.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That helps.
So we're just going to have tohave you back on the show, my
friend.
The book will be out you canpreorder now.
May contain anxiety managingthe overwhelm of parenting
children with food allergyanxiety children with food
allergies.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Who may have food allergy anxiety too?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
yes, who may have it too right, especially if we, as
parents, are not managing ours?
Where can they get thisexceptional book, tamara?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, so pretty much anywhere books are sold.
They can find more informationabout it on my website,
wwwfoodallergycounselorcom.
Backslash book.
It's available as of September30th here in North America a
little bit later in othercountries because of
distribution, but it'll beavailable in paperback,
hardcover, e-booker, kindle andaudio book as well, published by
(28:31):
Johns Hopkins, yep, and thenthe audio book is published by
Dreamscape or RB Media.
Yeah, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well done, my friend, and thank you not just for
coming on here but creating suchan excellent resource for our
listeners, for my patients, mypatients' parents, really for
the entire G-food allergyAllergy community.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me onto talk about it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Remember I'm an allergist, butI'm not your allergist.
So talk with your allergistabout what you learned today.
Like subscribe, share this withyour friends and go to
foodallergyandyourkiddocom whereyou can join our newsletter.
God bless you and God blessyour family.
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