March 28, 2024 • 46 mins
As the tides of financial struggle rise, many homeowners find themselves gasping for air in the choppy waters of foreclosure. That's where Julia Iden steps in, like a seasoned lifeguard, to help distressed property owners navigate the storm. With over thirty years of lending industry expertise, our guest on the podcast, the esteemed president of Advanced Mortgage Education, offers a lifeline to those on the brink of losing their homes. Julia unravels the complexities of the foreclosure process and presents viable strategies for resolution, emphasizing the impact of a powerful hardship letter and the importance of direct negotiations with mortgage servicers.
The conversation takes a turn into the heart of the mortgage servicing industry, where the human element of financial woes often gets lost in translation. We dissect the delicate scales of loss mitigation, bringing to light how a personal narrative—like that of a couple adopting their niece—can sway decision-makers and open doors to mortgage adjustments. Our discussion with Julia reveals the strength homeowners hold in their stories; it's a reminder that the walls of mortgage collections and incentive structures are not impenetrable and that in the midst of the darkest financial times, there's still room for empathy and proactive measures.
Wrapping up this heartfelt episode, we share a touching account of a mortgage insurance company's extraordinary step in aiding a family during their child's battle with leukemia. This story exemplifies the compassion that can—and should—permeate the industry. As your host, I also shed light on my role in guiding homeowners through the labyrinth of mortgage workouts, ensuring they have the knowledge and tools required to fill out financial forms accurately and manage their situation effectively. Join us on this journey of hope and expert advice, as Julia Iden and I extend a helping hand to those weathering the tempest of mortgage difficulties.
Be the first to know about the next episode of Foreclosure Chronicles by signing up at foreclosurechroniclespodcast.com
By signing up you also get access to special bonus recordings.
Amy is a licensed Realtor in North Carolina. She is affiliated with Buy Homes with Rose LLC brokerage. This is not a solicitation to get a listing. This is a podcast to provide you with options for your situation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
The views and opinions expressed on this
podcast are those of thepresenter and do not necessarily
reflect the views or positionof the podcast host.
That are facing foreclosurewith options so that they can
make the best decision for theirsituation or exit the property
(00:51):
with dignity.
Today, folks, we have a veryspecial guest and you definitely
want to get your pen and paperout because she is going to drop
some gems today.
Her name is Julia Iden.
She's the president of EventsAdvanced Mortgage Education.
Julia, welcome.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Amy, I appreciate you having me and I look forward to
the opportunity to helping yourlisteners, because you know
what.
There are hundreds andthousands, if not millions, of
homeowners in this country whowoke up this morning and they
are facing foreclosure and theyhave no idea.
They have no idea how theprocess works, they have no idea
(01:36):
what options are available tothem and they have no idea how
bad that foreclosure is reallygoing to be.
And in my 30 plus years in themortgage industry I have had
many, many homeowners come backto me after the fact and say I
wish somebody had told me thisinformation.
(01:58):
How come my real estate agentdidn't tell me?
How come my real estateattorney didn't tell me?
How come my loan officer didn'ttell me?
How come my real estateattorney didn't tell me?
How come my loan officer didn'ttell me?
And I said, because you knowwhat Nobody told them.
They learned about loanorigination and how to get that
consumer into the loan and whatthe products were that were
available to them Fixed rate,adjustable rate, interest only,
that kind of stuff and they gotthem into the mortgage.
(02:20):
But now these folks are in amortgage and some of them, you
know these mortgages are 30, 40years in term, they'll be
committed longer to theirmortgages than many will be
committed to their marriages,unfortunately.
Right the marriage, I think, iseasier to get out of.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Right, and that is why Foreclosure Chronicles is
created, so the homeowner willknow that they do have options.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And, plus, I've been there I lost doors during that
great time in 08 so I get it,and that's why I have you on the
show to help shine some lightand let these homeowners know
that they do have options andthat they can get help and
provide, get help to get help,pretty much so during my career,
(03:09):
I've had many professionals whosay to me when I tell them I
work with delinquent homeownerswho are struggling to make their
mortgage payments becausesomething bad, a hardship has
happened to them, and they go oh, you work with low income rural
housing folks and I go no, badthings happen to good people all
the time.
(03:30):
Hardship has no regard for yoursocial standing or your
financial status.
Okay, in my 30 plus years ofdoing this, I have worked with
millionaires.
Okay, but just because you're amillionaire, you know that I
did a deal once with somebodywho had a house in Connecticut
and their mortgage payments were$40,000 a month.
(03:53):
They made more in a monthlymortgage payment than I earned
in an entire year at the time.
But because something happenedto them and they could not
afford to make their mortgagepayments.
And they had a $40,000 mortgagebut the house was only worth 25
.
And they didn't have the moneyto cover the difference and they
(04:14):
were trying to do a workoutdeal with their mortgage company
because something bad happenedto them.
So homeowners out there I'veworked with doctors, lawyers it
runs the gamut.
Okay, bad things happen to goodhomeowners and they need to
know that they do have optionsavailable out there to them.
Okay, it has happened to memore times than I could count
(04:38):
and I'd need more than two handswhere, before we could get
through a resolution, thehomeowner committed suicide
because they just didn't believethey had any options available
to them, and that's a terrible,terrible thing.
That is.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
That is and I'm glad you mentioned that because on
the last episode mentionedearlier, we actually had a
counselor on the show who wentthrough the five stages of grief
.
So if you haven't listened tothat, make sure you go back to
listen to that, because that'sone thing we do not want to
happen is for you to end yourlife over something that you can
(05:15):
get help for.
So, julia, what do you bring tothe table?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay.
So I started in the mortgageindustry way back in 1987,
working for a mortgage insurancecompany, and I was an auditor.
I became very familiar with thelife of a mortgage, the
entities who have a vestedinterest in this mortgage and
what their interests are, theprocesses that can affect the
(05:41):
mortgage, like bankruptcy andforeclosure, and the timelines
associated with those things,because each state is different.
And so I did that for severalyears.
And then I moved into theirloss mitigation department and
there I was a negotiator.
I was the person who thehomeowner, when they were in
trouble, had to come in front of, present their documents, lay
(06:04):
out their story to me and Idecided whether I was going to
help them or not, based on theirfinancials and their hardship
letter.
So here's tip number one of thesession Okay, many people will
say to homeowners keep yourhardship letter.
And that's a letter that youwrite to the mortgage company.
And there are three parts.
(06:25):
Part number one what happenedto get you behind?
Okay.
Number two what did you do totry to fix it?
I took a loan against my 401k,I got a part-time job, I sold
some stocks and bonds, you know.
I sold off some assets.
You did something.
Okay, what did you do to try tofix it?
(06:45):
And the last part is yourdesire and homeowner.
You're going to say, if youwant to stay or you want to get
out.
And I've had the homeowner sayto me we're fighting over the
money like cats and dogs and ifwe don't get out of here, one of
the two of us is going to bedead.
Okay, we don't want to talkabout staying in the house and
the options available for that.
We want to talk about what wehave to do to get out of here
(07:07):
because we are not interested instaying.
So what is that homeowner'sdesire?
Do they want to stay in thehouse and try to work it out, or
do they want to get out?
So that's their hardship letter.
It's the most importantdocument that they will send to
the mortgage company becauseafter reading that letter, the
person who is the negotiator isgoing to decide whether they're
helping that homeowner or not,based on what's written in that
(07:30):
letter.
So, for example, real estateagent called me up and said I've
been working with this guy andI think he needs to talk to you.
Usually, can he have given yournumber and let him call you.
And I said okay.
So he called me up and he saidlook, we haven't made a mortgage
payment in two months and themortgage company is about to
refer me over to the foreclosureattorney and start the
(07:51):
foreclosure process.
And I said well, why haven'tyou made a payment in two months
?
And he said well, my wife is aschool teacher and so she hasn't
worked the last two months andbecause she didn't work she
didn't get paid and we didn'thave the money to make the
mortgage payment.
Now, what I find, amy, is, it'snot one thing that puts a
(08:12):
homeowner behind, it is acombination of things that got
them into the situation.
So what I say to the homeowners, I want you to go back.
So in your letter, when youwrite it, you'll go all the way
back to when this very startedand you'll tell the story from
then until now.
And I said go back to thebeginning and tell me what
happened.
And he said well, he said fourmonths ago, my two teenage
(08:35):
daughters were on their way homefrom college for a weekend and
they had an automobile accidentand one of our daughters died
and we had to cash in our lifesavings to pay for her funeral
and my wife was on bereavementleave and while she's on
bereavement leave she doesn'tget paid.
So we don't have enough money topay the mortgage payment.
Wow, and I said, okay, that'swhat you need to put in your
(09:00):
hardship letter, because thatmortgage company get their phone
rings off the hook every day.
They're talking to homeowners,okay, who aren't paying.
So you really have to make yourcase.
And so some people will tellhomeowners to keep their
hardship letter to a paragraphor two.
Make it short and sweet.
That's not what I say.
I say if it takes you 10 pagesto write your letter, you take
(09:23):
10 pages to write your letterbecause at the end of reading
your letter that person willdecide whether they're helping
you or not.
Your letter will make or breakyour deal.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You know, I've heard that where some of the we'll say
gurus out in the industry waslike, like you said, keep it
short, but with these threepointers it's like you can't
keep it just to a paragraph,right?
So if you don't get anythingout of today, your hardship
letter pretty much pour yourheart out and go back to the
(09:55):
beginning of where it allstarted.
Now, now I know you say youwere loss mitigated.
So in today's time will thatloss mitigator read that five to
10 page letter?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, they're still reading the letters.
They get scanned into thesystem and they get read,
because that's how theydetermine whether you qualify or
not.
So they are reading the lettersand they're very important.
So as a negotiator, it was myjob to contact delinquent
homeowners and, if at allpossible, cure the delinquency,
bring the loan current so thatthe homeowners can make the
(10:30):
payment, because the name of thegame at the insurance company
is don't pay that claim or payas little as possible.
You know how it works girl.
Well, let's say it's a $100thousand dollar loan with 10%
mortgage insurance.
So if the mortgage company, theinsurance company, just sits
back and lets this property goto foreclosure sale, we're going
(10:54):
to pay 10% of the outstandingbalance on the loan.
So, a hundred thousand dollarloan, 10%.
We're going to write a claimcheck for $10,000.
But if I can fix it so thehomeowner can make the payments
on a go-forward basis and thatproperty doesn't go to
foreclosure sale, I just savedthat insurance company $10,000.
(11:14):
So my job as a negotiator wasto contact delinquent homeowners
, talk with them, make sure theyhad a valid hardship okay, have
them pull together theirdocuments, write a hardship
letter, submit it in Okay, wewould run it through the system.
And so the process.
Homeowners, there's nothing foryou to be afraid of.
You have been through thisprocess before.
(11:36):
It is the same exact process asloan origination.
So you're going to submit bankstatements, tax returns Okay,
pay stubs.
You're going to fill out afinancial form, just like you
did to get the loan.
They're going to pull yourcredit report okay, they're
going to read your hardshipletter.
So there's nothing, homeowners,don't be afraid.
(11:57):
You've been through thisprocess before.
The only difference is, insteadof verifying income and assets.
They're just looking to makesure you're not hiding income
and assets and as diligent asthey were in making sure that
you were telling the truth.
Because when you lie, cover upby trick, scheme or device a
(12:19):
mortgage company, that is calledmortgage fraud.
Okay, and you'll go to jail fora long, long time if they catch
you.
I do not recommend that youever try to lie to your mortgage
company.
Always tell them the truth.
So they're going to fill outthat financial form.
So it's the same process asloan origination.
We're just looking to make surethat you truly don't have any
(12:42):
assets.
And here's two big misnomers forconsumers out there.
Misnomer number one my creditsucks because I've been
struggling financially.
And when I got the loan, theone thing I learned about
mortgage companies is you got tohave a good credit score in
order for them to work with you.
But when you're going throughthe loss mitigation department,
(13:02):
that bad credit score justsubstantiates your claim that
you are struggling financially.
So if you have poor credit,don't let that stop you.
You still need to be talkingwith your mortgage company.
Ok, so don't be afraid.
It's the same process as loanorigination.
The same types of documentsyou're going to fill out and
submit to that mortgage company.
(13:23):
Ok, and be honest.
Okay, when you're filling outthe forms.
And hey, if you got a $5million house and it's only
selling for three and you got amillion dollars in a bank, it's
still not enough money to coverthe difference between the sale
and what you owe.
You still could be in troubleeven though you got a million
dollars in the bank.
(13:43):
Okay, so fill out.
The form needs to be true, itneeds to be accurate, it needs
to be correct.
I'm going to send that into themortgage company.
So I was a negotiator for themortgage insurance company
calling delinquent homeowners,getting them on the phone,
trying to get them to do workoutdeals, and I did that for
several years.
And then I became theircorporate default manager,
(14:26):
started traveling around thecountry going to large mortgage
servicing shops, holdingtraining sessions for their
collections department, fortheir loss mitigation department
.
Tip number three for yourlisteners how do you know you're
in the right department?
Because collections their jobis to collect in full or get you
to foreclosure as fast aspossible.
It is not their job to help youdo a workout deal Okay, and the
only thing a collector canoffer you is to make a payment
in half.
So if they answer the phone andsaid, hi, this is Juilliard
Mortgage Company and you said,look, something happened to me,
(14:48):
I can't make my mortgage payment, they're going to say here's
your options you pay in fulltoday on the telephone or you
make a payment in half for thenext, however, months until your
current.
Other than that, we are sendingyou to foreclosure.
You are talking to a collector.
You're talking to the wrongperson.
They get bonus measured andpaid to collect in full, not to
(15:08):
help you with a workout deal.
OK now, after being a corporatedefault manager for several
years, mortgage investor came tome and I went to work for them
and I was their on site lossmitigation consultant at one of
the top five mortgage servicingdepartments in the country.
I had a $5 million stop losslimit, so as long as it wasn't
(15:30):
more than $5 million, they couldwalk into my office, which was
on site at the mortgage company,and they could lay a deal in
front of me and I had theauthority to look at that.
And so it was my job to managemortgage servicers and make sure
that they were offeringhomeowners who were in default,
who had a valid hardship, aworkout opportunity.
(15:51):
Now, what's a valid hardship?
What will get you a deal withyour mortgage company?
Death, divorce, illness,military deployment,
self-employed borrower with adecline in business?
There are a lot out there ofoptions that will get you a deal
(16:12):
with your mortgage company.
What doesn't?
Well, I had a baby and Idecided I didn't want to go back
to work.
And they are not doing a dealwith you just because you
decided you didn't go back towork.
(16:32):
Okay, did you see that?
Did you see that?
Yes, and it's one of thebiggest ones.
That happens all the time.
Well, what happens is they havethe baby and then they realize
how much daycare costs.
And when they sit down and lookat the dollars and cents, by
the time they have to get theirclothes cleaned, pay for lunch
at work, pay for daycare for thebaby and all the stuff that
(16:55):
requires, then it actually costsmore money than it would be
just to stay at home.
And so the wife says I'm notbecause I have two or three kids
, and when you start adding upthat much in daycare, it really
does.
So just because you quit yourjob to stay at home and take
care of the kids, that is notgoing to get you a workout deal
with your mortgage company.
My boss is a horse's patootie,so I quit my job.
(17:18):
Well, you knew you hadfinancial obligations.
You should have lined up a newjob before you quit that old job
because you knew you had amortgage payment to make.
We do not do deals with peoplewho just willy-nilly quit their
job.
However, sometimes exceptionscan be made.
So the negotiator comes into myoffice and she says Julie, I
(17:44):
know that Freddie Mac investorguideline is you don't do
workout deals with people whoquit their job.
But let me tell you what'sgoing on.
There's this nice young couple.
They live in Clayton, northCarolina.
The husband has a sister.
She was a crack addict.
She got pregnant, went to thehospital, gave birth to the baby
and during the night she snuckout and left the baby behind.
(18:05):
His name was listed on thepaperwork when she was admitted
to the hospital.
The hospital called him up andsaid it's you or social services
?
And he said, no, we'll take thebaby.
But because of the mother'scrack addictions, the daycare
centers would not take thatchild till it was a year old
because of the healthcomplications associated with
her addiction.
So his wife had quit her job tostay at home for the year and
(18:28):
take care of that baby.
And the negotiator said now Iknow you don't do deals with
people who quit their job tostay at home and take care of a
baby.
But I thought, if I explainedthis to you, that you would be
willing to waive the guidelineand make an exception.
So if the mortgage company istelling you, homeowner, that
(18:48):
there is a guideline and you'renot meeting it, you need to say
to the person over the phonelook, you can't make the
exception for me, but you knowwho can Transfer me to the
person who has the authority,who can make an exception on my
behalf.
Okay, and so if they're tellingyou you're not meeting the
(19:10):
guidelines, ask them whoseguideline is it?
And can you get me through?
Is it the investor's guideline?
Is it the insurance company'sguideline?
Whose guideline is it?
Give me their number so I cancall them up on the telephone
and talk with them.
Now here's another helpful hint.
It is much better for thehomeowner to make this call
(19:30):
themselves.
I know they don't know anythingabout mortgages.
They don't know anything aboutinvestors or mortgage servicers
or mortgage insurance companies,none of that stuff.
But here is the truth, the rawtruth.
It is very easy for me to say tothe real estate agent no,
because then you have to callthem back and tell them over the
(19:52):
phone that the investor said noand listen to them cry, and
it's really hard.
Okay, she's already crying onthe phone that the investor said
no and listen to them cry, andit's really hard.
Okay, she's already crying onthe phone, but when he starts
crying too, those are reallyhard conversations to have.
It's easy for me to say totheir attorney no, because then
their attorney has to call themon the phone.
It is very difficult for me tosay directly to the homeowner no
(20:16):
, I'm not going to help you.
Okay, because in the back of mymind I'm thinking as soon as I
hang up the phone what is thishomeowner going to do?
Are they going to go to that?
I hate my mortgage companywebsite which tells them the day
before foreclosure, run down tothe home improvement store and
(20:38):
you buy a couple bags of cement.
And if your pipes run throughthe cement slab and that's how
they build them in Texas, onslabs, with all the pipes
running through the cement slaband they pour cement into their
pipes the day of the foreclosuresale, now what does the
investor have to do with thatproperty?
Scrape the house to the groundand all they have left is a
vacant lot.
(20:58):
That homeowner thinks they haveno power over that investor or
that insurance company, but theinvestor and the insurance
company and the mortgageservicer are very concerned
about what that homeowner mightdo to this house.
Amy, have you ever seen some ofthese houses by the time they
get to foreclosure sale?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Oh yeah, and you know what?
There is a movie out about that.
What happened back in 08, 09,there is a movie out I think
it's something 99, and it showedpeople putting stuff where
stuff don't need to be on.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I'm telling you, I had one one time.
If I hadn't seen the paperworkand the photos for myself, I
never would have believed it.
They took the windows, thedoors, all the trim, all the
light fixtures, the switches,the outlets, all the appliances,
the toilets, the tubs.
They rolled up the sod out ofthe yard and took the air
conditioning system off the pad.
(21:54):
It was nothing but walls on adirt patch, and they took some
red spray paint and they wroteme some messages that I cannot
repeat over the air because I'msure that you would be in
trouble and so would I.
Okay, these people, they arevery mad because nobody they
feel like nobody's helping them,and the reason is is because
(22:14):
they keep hitting collectionsand they can't get through.
So, as I was out working onsite at this mortgage servicing
shop on behalf of the investorfor a couple of years, I made
friends with the people whoactually do the jobs and after a
couple of months they startedto feel sorry for me and they
started to tell me the truth.
(22:34):
Okay, I know the VP explainedit to you this way, but let me
show you how this really works.
My friend Wanda, who is themanager of a collections group,
pulled me aside one day and shesaid girlfriend, let me tell you
how this really works.
The VP of collections gets abonus at the end of the year and
(22:55):
it's based on three things.
The first thing is call talktime.
We have to keep our call talktime under two minutes.
There is a giant board up inthe corner of the room of
collections and across the boardit says we have 15,000 calls to
make today.
Currently we've made 5,000 ofthose calls and our average talk
time is and if it's over twominutes the board turns red.
(23:15):
If it's under two minutes it'sgreen.
So you, out of the corner ofyour eye as a collector, can see
that board turn from green tored.
And what do you know?
You need to make more callsfaster because we're over on the
time.
So at the end of the year wasthe call talk time less than two
minutes and in two minutes it'snot time enough for that
homeowner to explain what'sgoing on.
It's time enough for the personto say paid a day in full
(23:43):
payment in half for the nextcouple months or we're sending
you to foreclosure and get offthe phone.
Okay, she said.
The second thing they'remeasured on is what percentage
paid in full.
Of all the people we spoke toat the end of the year, did 90%
of them pay their loans currentlike they were supposed to?
If they did, yahoo, I'm gettinga big old fat bonus.
And then the third thing iswhen we look at our delinquent
(24:05):
portfolio, where do the bulk ofthese delinquent loans fall?
Do they fall into the 30 daybucket, meaning the 15th of the
month has passed and they've notyet made their mortgage payment
, but it is not past the end ofthe month.
So technically they just haveto make a late payment.
And as long as they make thepayment and it's applied prior
(24:27):
to the last business day of themonth, they don't get reported
to the credit bureau.
The only thing that happens isthey pay the late fee $50 to the
mortgage company.
And you know what the mortgagecompany gets to keep that money.
They'd like every singlehomeowner to make their payment
on the 17th, because the onlything that would happen is they
will collect more money.
(24:48):
So if the bulk of thedelinquent loans fall into that
30-day bucket of collectors, yah, that VP is getting a big old
fat bonus at the end of the year.
But if the bulk of thosedelinquent loans fall 60 to 90
or 90 to 120 days into fall.
(25:09):
Now it's costing money.
They're having to hireforeclosure attorneys, they're
having to do drive-bys and Idon't mean a bang bang bang
drive-by oh, they'd get moremoney if they did it that way.
What I mean is they have hireda real estate agent to drive by
the house and do what they calla BPO, a broker's price opinion,
and it just tells them threethings.
(25:30):
One, is there a house there?
And I've gotten these beforeand it said there's no house
there and it turned out to beloan fraud, okay.
Two, does it look like thepeople in the house are the
people who should be living inthe house?
Because sometimes the homeownershey, if they don't want to stay
, amy, they will get a truck inthe middle of the night, they
(25:50):
will pack all their belongingsand drive away before the sun
comes up and you will never hearfrom them or see them again.
Okay, they will disappear.
You cannot make them stay ifthey want to leave.
And I've had homeowners thatwe've hired attorneys and then
gotten sheriffs, evicted themout of the property and over the
(26:10):
weekend they busted in thewindows and got back in the
house again and we had to gothrough the process all over to
get them out.
So if they want to stay, youcan't get them out, and if they
want to go, you can't stay.
So really, that homeowner'sdesire is key, because you can't
make them do what they don'twant to do okay.
So let's see where was I got offtrack, talking about, or?
(26:33):
Sometimes I just get so workedup.
So I was trying to helphomeowners do workout deals my
entire career and then, in 2003,I looked around and I could see
2008 coming like a freighttrain in the night.
We were in the middle of there-fi boom.
Okay, my husband, the loanofficer, making money hand over
(26:57):
fist.
All you needed was a heartbeatand the ability to sign your
name with a credit score of 580.
And that's bad, ok, and theywould give you a stated yeah.
Now, internally in the industry, we call them liar loans
because we knew the homeownerwas lying to us when we looked
(27:21):
across the table and said nowyou just tell me how much money
you earn, and I'm not going toverify a thing, I'm not asking
anybody, you don't have toproduce any documents and the
homeowner said well, in thatcase, I make one hundred fifty
thousand dollars a year.
And I said now tell me how manyassets you have, and, as a
matter of fact, I'm not going toverify those.
And I said well, I got $250,000.
And so we knew that washappening and I looked around
(27:44):
and I knew, when you were doing100% financing no money down,
with a credit score 580, statedincome, stated asset loan I knew
where this was going.
Okay, this was going toforeclosure, sale these people
as soon as they somethinghappens a flat tire, a flat tire
on the car?
Okay, the refrigerator dies, assoon as something happens, they
(28:06):
are not going to be able tomake that mortgage payment and
they are going into fault onthis loan.
And so I looked around and Isaid you know what?
Nobody is teaching the realestate professionals about this.
We're teaching them about loanorigination, but now that this
homeowner's got a 30-yearmortgage and all these things
can happen to him, it's calledlife.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You can't expect to go through 30, 40, 50, 60 years
of life and nothing bad everhappened to you, but if
something bad, a hardship, wereto happen to you, that there are
options available to homeownersout there.
And so in 2003, I trotted ondown to the North Carolina
Banking Commission, the NorthCarolina State Bar and the North
Carolina Real Estate Commissionand I said, hey, I'm going to
(28:51):
teach your licensees how to workwith delinquent homeowners.
And they said girl, don't youknow?
We're in the middle of the refiboom and all you need is a 580
credit score and we have theability to sign your name in a
heartbeat and we'll give you aloan.
And I said I know, and I knowexactly where these are going.
And I am here to tell you,after speaking with tens of
(29:11):
thousands of delinquenthomeowners over my many, many
decades in this industry, thatthe first call they make is to
their loan officer or themortgage broker.
And it sounds like this hey,bill, it's Julie.
Look, I wanted to give you acall because I lost my job two
months ago.
I thought by now I'd haveanother one, but when they
(29:32):
closed the plant, all of us gotlaid off, so the job market got
flooded and I cannot find a jobto save my life not any kind of
job and now I need some money tocatch up on my mortgage loan
and hold me over till I can geta job.
At which point the loan offersaid oh, you're unemployed.
You see, that's going to be aproblem and you're not paying on
(29:57):
the loan that you currentlyhave with us.
And if you're not paying on theloan you have now, I can't make
you another loan.
And the loan officer hangs upthe phone from the homeowner,
who now calls to their realestate agent and said hey, since
you sold me the house, I'mthinking about selling the house
.
Why don't you stop on by, takea look at it, tell me what you
(30:20):
think I can get?
And the agent says sure.
And at three o'clock I, thehomeowner, called to my mortgage
company and I said how much doI owe you?
What's my unpaid principalbalance?
I said, julie, you owe us$200,000.
I said thank you very much andI hung up the phone.
The agent showed up at seveno'clock at my house and sat down
with my husband and I, gave usa very nice presentation and
(30:41):
then, at the very end, she saidbased on the most recent sales
in your neighborhood, I thinkthe best we can do for you is
$175,000.
Isn't that great.
Now I am doing the math in theback of my head.
$200,000 minus $175,000 means Igot to come up with $25,000
just to pay off the mortgagecompany.
That doesn't count the realestate commission or any closing
(31:04):
costs.
I got to pay and, heck, if Ihad that kind of money, girl,
I'd be making the payment Tillthe real estate market turned
around.
Then I would sell the house andmake money on it.
So my husband and I, we lookedat the real estate agent and
said thanks for coming, we'regoing to talk about it and we'll
give you a call.
And we let the real estateagent walk out the front door.
(31:25):
We looked at each other andsaid I guess we're just waiting
for a foreclosure sale becausewe don't have any other options
available to us, when in fact,if they did get in to the loss
mitigation department, there areoptions.
So earlier I said how do youknow the difference?
How do you know when you're inthe right department?
And I said I explained howyou'd know if you were in
(31:47):
collections.
In law mitigation, the veryfirst thing they're going to say
to the homeowner is we can't doa thing for you till we have
your financial packets.
So we're going to send a letteroff to you.
It's going to tell you how towrite a hardship letter.
It's going to have a blankfinancial form for you to fill
out and then it's going to havea list of documents that you
need to attach bank statements,pay stubs, tax returns and
(32:08):
you're going to send that stuffback into us.
We're going to enter it intoour system.
We're going to pull your creditreport.
We're going to order anappraisal.
We're going to load that intothe system, just like we did
with loan origination Okay,except for on the back end.
It's a different system.
We're going to load it in thereand then it's going to generate
which options you qualify forRepayment plan, special
(32:33):
forbearance, loan modificationokay, short sales deed and lose
special forbearance.
So there are lots of optionsavailable to homeowners out
there.
They just have to get to theright department.
So that's how you know ifyou're in the right department.
If they are not asking you fordocuments and telling you you
(32:53):
have to write a hardship letter,you're in the wrong place.
And so my friend Wanda said andto add insult to injury.
Here's the deal At the end ofthe day, when the collectors are
done, there is a report that isgenerated and if they see that
you did anything other than hangup the phone if you transferred
(33:17):
that call over to lossmitigation, the first time you
get a verbal warning.
The second time they write youup because it puts the loan in
the more than 30 days delinquentbucket which is having a
negative impact on the VP'sbonus.
They don't want you doing that.
So if a collector heard youtalking about your hardship and
(33:39):
they felt sorry for you, this iswhat would happen at that
servicing shop I worked atBecause I would train those
collectors.
These are valid hardships.
When you hear a homeowner saythese words, transfer them to
loss mitigation.
That's when Wanda said theycan't Because if they transfer
it over it shows up on thereport at the end of the day.
First time they get a verbalwarning, second time I write
them up and the third time Ifire them.
(34:00):
So what these collectors do isthey write the loan number on a
sticky note, then they have toask for permission to disconnect
from the call queue to go tothe restroom and they walk
through loss mitigation and theythrow these sticky notes in the
chairs.
And everybody in lossmitigation knew exactly what
that was when you came back toyour desk and there was a sticky
(34:21):
note in your chair.
Somebody from collections hadtalked to a homeowner that they
felt terrible for and theywanted to help.
But if they transferred thecall over and you see, I looked
around and said, oh my gosh,they have got a system.
And if you don't know how thesystem works and I, at this
point, at 20 years in my career,working with insurance
(34:43):
companies, investors andmortgage servicers, and I had no
idea this is how it worked andif I had no idea, the real
estate agents, the loan officersand the attorneys out there,
they had no idea.
The real estate agents, theloan officers and the attorneys
out there, they had no idea.
And so I need to teach themabout this.
So when the consumers come tothem and ask them for help, that
you can point them in the rightdirection, into the loss
(35:03):
mitigation department, wherethey can talk to the people who
can help them.
Okay, and so if you are behindon your mortgage, this is what
you need to do Go back and get astatement from when you are
current, because when you arecurrent on your mortgage, it is
(35:25):
the 1-800 number to customerservice that prints on your
statement.
As soon as you get behind onyour payment, the 1-800 number
on your statement is the 1-800number to the collections
department.
That is who you want to betalking to.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Can you repeat that, because I think everybody needs
to hear this.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Okay, everybody, make sure you're writing down With
that pen and pad you're going togo back and you're going to get
the statement when you werelast current and you're dialing
that 800 number.
So you're talking to customerservice because as soon as
you're delinquent the 800 numberon your statement is the 800
number collections, where theyget bonus measured and paid to
(36:07):
collecting you at full.
Okay, they do not get paid tohelp you work it out.
Now you're going to call andthe very first thing you will
hear is the automated attendantWelcome to Julie Iden Mortgage
Company.
Please enter your loan number,don't.
If you enter your loan number,the computer will recognize it
(36:27):
as a delinquent account andwhere will it transfer the call?
To Collections.
So do not enter your loannumber.
If you hold on, eventually areal live customer service rep
is going to come on the phone.
They're going to say welcome tojuliette mortgage company.
Can I have your loan number?
Please do not give them yourloan number.
(36:48):
As soon as they pull up yourloan and they see it as a
delinquent account, what arethey told to do with all
delinquent accounts, no matterwhat the homeowner says, you
send them where To collectionsso they can be collected on in
full.
So here's what you say.
Before I give you my loannumber, let me tell you why I'm
calling Because these people,they don't get paid to fix it,
(37:09):
they get paid to identify whatthe issue is and get you off to
the right department.
So you're going to say here itthey get paid to identify what
the issue is and get you off tothe right department.
So you're going to say here'swhat I need.
I need to be on the phone withyour loss mitigation department
Now.
Hold on, before you transfer me, I want you to give me the 800
number directly to thatdepartment.
So from now on, when I call into the mortgage company, I am
(37:30):
calling the department who getsbonus measured and paid to help
homeowners with workout deals,not the department who gets
bonus measured and paid tocollect in full or get you to
foreclosure as fast as possible.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Wow, that right there was worth a whole diamond
Liking it to a salmon swimmingupstream.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
these homeowners have gone off into the wrong
direction, into collections.
They've got trapped here andthey can't get out and they're
dying.
Okay, they had no idea thatthere was an entire department
who gets bonus, measured andpaid.
Okay, to do workout deals forYale.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Wow, who would have known?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yep.
So for the last 20 years I'vebeen driving around North
Carolina teaching real estateagents, loan officers, mortgage
brokers about what these optionsare, how they work, what needs
to be pulled together.
And they catch on very quicklybecause it is very, very similar
to loan origination and they'relike yeah, I can point my
people in the right direction.
(38:39):
Not only can I help them getinto the mortgage, but God
forbid if anything went wrongand they called me up.
I know enough now that I canpoint them in the right
direction and get them into theright department.
Okay, and I can help them.
I've had homeowners call me onthe phone and say you have no
idea what you have done for usMortgage company called me on
(39:02):
the phone.
They said you guys have themortgage insurance on this loan.
Here's what happened.
This young couple has afour-year-old daughter who's got
leukemia.
Doctors have done everythingthey can do.
There's nothing else they cando for the child.
They've given the child threemonths to live.
The mother and father have beenapproved for family leave.
But on family leave you don'tget paid.
You just guaranteed your job, ajob, not even your job, just a
(39:25):
job when you come back.
So they wrote into the mortgagecompany.
They gave them the letters fromtheir employer showing that
they weren't going to be makingany money for the next three
months and they weren't going tobe able to pay.
And that negotiator called meup at the mortgage insurance
company and said okay, julie,they got a thousand dollar a
month mortgage payments and forthe next three months they're
not going to pay.
And I said look, it's a hundredthousand dollar loan with 10%
(39:47):
insurance and if it goes toforeclosure, I'm looking at
paying a $10,000 claim.
Do I want to lend them three orpay 10?
Lend them three or pay 10.
I said I'll tell you what I'mgoing to do.
I'm going to advance $3,000 toyou, the mortgage company, right
now.
You're going to put it insuspense, as each month, as the
payment comes due, you're goingto pull the money out of
(40:07):
suspense and apply it to theaccount.
They're never going to go intodefault.
They're never going to have alate fee In the future when they
go to get more credit.
They're not going to have tobring this up and have to
explain to stranger afterstranger after stranger what
happened.
They'll never get a call from acollector.
They'll never be referred to aforeclosure attorney.
Okay.
And when they found out thatthis is what we were going to do
(40:32):
for them, they said you have noidea what you have done for us.
We could spend the last threemonths focused on the most
important thing to us and nothave to tell stranger after
stranger, because that mortgagecompany doesn't call you once a
month, they call every day.
Okay, until the loan is broughtcurrent.
They're on an automatic dialer.
(40:52):
It's a computer, it's not aperson and it's calling every
single day.
And we would have had to tellsomebody every single day what
was going on with us.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Wow, wow.
This has been amazing and Ihope the listeners have received
some valuable gems today and Ihope they took notes.
This is one.
I would say this is one podcastyou want to download rewind
because Julia dropped some majorgems.
(41:26):
So, julia, you mentionedhomeowners, that you work with
homeowners, so are you currentlydoing that now, helping
homeowners?
Are you strictly work with likepeople like myself agents,
attorneys?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I mostly work with agents and attorneys, but every
now and then they'll getsomething and they'll say look,
this is really out there.
And instead of me having torelay all the information
because it's a lot ofinformation I've had consumers
who said to me the stuff thatthe mortgage company is asking
for now is more than I had toproduce to get the stinking loan
(41:59):
to begin with.
But if you want a workout deal,that's what you're going to
have to do, and sometimes theyhit roadblocks.
So they call me because they'retrying to get past those
roadblocks.
So I do do some consulting withreal estate professionals when
they're trying to help consumerswork out deals, awesome,
awesome.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Well, definitely, look, I got you in my back
pocket.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So you'll have me back again.
Yes, yes, because Wow, we cando another run on workout
options, because we didn't evenget to talk about those hardly.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I know that that is definitely something.
Yes, because the homeownerneeds to know everything that
that goes on and they can do itthemselves.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
That's right and filling out the financial forms.
All you need is a littlecoaching to make sure you're
filling it out correctly.
Ok, and so that could beanother part of it.
So more information may be tocome to those listeners.
Go ahead Call Amy, email her,all right.
Well, we thank you so much forbeing on Foreclosure Chronicles,
(43:07):
julia.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
All right.
Well, we thank you so much forbeing on Foreclosure Chronicles,
julia, and, yeah, youdefinitely will be coming back.
If you like this episode,please, please, please, download
it on all your favoriteplatforms, except for Apple.
I'm not on Apple or iTunes yet.
Get in there.
(43:30):
Make sure you subscribeForeclosurechroniclescom and
share, if you know someone thatis in foreclosure or going
through a distress situation,for this podcast to them.
Again, julia, thank you so much, and everyone have a great day.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Thank you you.
The views and opinions expressed on this
podcast are those of thepresenter and do not necessarily
reflect the views or positionof the podcast host.
That are facing foreclosurewith options so that they can
make the best decision for theirsituation or exit the property
(00:51):
with dignity.
Today, folks, we have a veryspecial guest and you definitely
want to get your pen and paperout because she is going to drop
some gems today.
Her name is Julia Iden.
She's the president of EventsAdvanced Mortgage Education.
Julia, welcome.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Amy, I appreciate you having me and I look forward to
the opportunity to helping yourlisteners, because you know
what.
There are hundreds andthousands, if not millions, of
homeowners in this country whowoke up this morning and they
are facing foreclosure and theyhave no idea.
They have no idea how theprocess works, they have no idea
(01:36):
what options are available tothem and they have no idea how
bad that foreclosure is reallygoing to be.
And in my 30 plus years in themortgage industry I have had
many, many homeowners come backto me after the fact and say I
wish somebody had told me thisinformation.
(01:58):
How come my real estate agentdidn't tell me?
How come my real estateattorney didn't tell me?
How come my loan officer didn'ttell me?
How come my real estateattorney didn't tell me?
How come my loan officer didn'ttell me?
And I said, because you knowwhat Nobody told them.
They learned about loanorigination and how to get that
consumer into the loan and whatthe products were that were
available to them Fixed rate,adjustable rate, interest only,
that kind of stuff and they gotthem into the mortgage.
(02:20):
But now these folks are in amortgage and some of them, you
know these mortgages are 30, 40years in term, they'll be
committed longer to theirmortgages than many will be
committed to their marriages,unfortunately.
Right the marriage, I think, iseasier to get out of.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Right, and that is why Foreclosure Chronicles is
created, so the homeowner willknow that they do have options.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And, plus, I've been there I lost doors during that
great time in 08 so I get it,and that's why I have you on the
show to help shine some lightand let these homeowners know
that they do have options andthat they can get help and
provide, get help to get help,pretty much so during my career,
(03:09):
I've had many professionals whosay to me when I tell them I
work with delinquent homeownerswho are struggling to make their
mortgage payments becausesomething bad, a hardship has
happened to them, and they go oh, you work with low income rural
housing folks and I go no, badthings happen to good people all
the time.
(03:30):
Hardship has no regard for yoursocial standing or your
financial status.
Okay, in my 30 plus years ofdoing this, I have worked with
millionaires.
Okay, but just because you're amillionaire, you know that I
did a deal once with somebodywho had a house in Connecticut
and their mortgage payments were$40,000 a month.
(03:53):
They made more in a monthlymortgage payment than I earned
in an entire year at the time.
But because something happenedto them and they could not
afford to make their mortgagepayments.
And they had a $40,000 mortgagebut the house was only worth 25
.
And they didn't have the moneyto cover the difference and they
(04:14):
were trying to do a workoutdeal with their mortgage company
because something bad happenedto them.
So homeowners out there I'veworked with doctors, lawyers it
runs the gamut.
Okay, bad things happen to goodhomeowners and they need to
know that they do have optionsavailable out there to them.
Okay, it has happened to memore times than I could count
(04:38):
and I'd need more than two handswhere, before we could get
through a resolution, thehomeowner committed suicide
because they just didn't believethey had any options available
to them, and that's a terrible,terrible thing.
That is.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
That is and I'm glad you mentioned that because on
the last episode mentionedearlier, we actually had a
counselor on the show who wentthrough the five stages of grief
.
So if you haven't listened tothat, make sure you go back to
listen to that, because that'sone thing we do not want to
happen is for you to end yourlife over something that you can
(05:15):
get help for.
So, julia, what do you bring tothe table?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay.
So I started in the mortgageindustry way back in 1987,
working for a mortgage insurancecompany, and I was an auditor.
I became very familiar with thelife of a mortgage, the
entities who have a vestedinterest in this mortgage and
what their interests are, theprocesses that can affect the
(05:41):
mortgage, like bankruptcy andforeclosure, and the timelines
associated with those things,because each state is different.
And so I did that for severalyears.
And then I moved into theirloss mitigation department and
there I was a negotiator.
I was the person who thehomeowner, when they were in
trouble, had to come in front of, present their documents, lay
(06:04):
out their story to me and Idecided whether I was going to
help them or not, based on theirfinancials and their hardship
letter.
So here's tip number one of thesession Okay, many people will
say to homeowners keep yourhardship letter.
And that's a letter that youwrite to the mortgage company.
And there are three parts.
(06:25):
Part number one what happenedto get you behind?
Okay.
Number two what did you do totry to fix it?
I took a loan against my 401k,I got a part-time job, I sold
some stocks and bonds, you know.
I sold off some assets.
You did something.
Okay, what did you do to try tofix it?
(06:45):
And the last part is yourdesire and homeowner.
You're going to say, if youwant to stay or you want to get
out.
And I've had the homeowner sayto me we're fighting over the
money like cats and dogs and ifwe don't get out of here, one of
the two of us is going to bedead.
Okay, we don't want to talkabout staying in the house and
the options available for that.
We want to talk about what wehave to do to get out of here
(07:07):
because we are not interested instaying.
So what is that homeowner'sdesire?
Do they want to stay in thehouse and try to work it out, or
do they want to get out?
So that's their hardship letter.
It's the most importantdocument that they will send to
the mortgage company becauseafter reading that letter, the
person who is the negotiator isgoing to decide whether they're
helping that homeowner or not,based on what's written in that
(07:30):
letter.
So, for example, real estateagent called me up and said I've
been working with this guy andI think he needs to talk to you.
Usually, can he have given yournumber and let him call you.
And I said okay.
So he called me up and he saidlook, we haven't made a mortgage
payment in two months and themortgage company is about to
refer me over to the foreclosureattorney and start the
(07:51):
foreclosure process.
And I said well, why haven'tyou made a payment in two months
?
And he said well, my wife is aschool teacher and so she hasn't
worked the last two months andbecause she didn't work she
didn't get paid and we didn'thave the money to make the
mortgage payment.
Now, what I find, amy, is, it'snot one thing that puts a
(08:12):
homeowner behind, it is acombination of things that got
them into the situation.
So what I say to the homeowners, I want you to go back.
So in your letter, when youwrite it, you'll go all the way
back to when this very startedand you'll tell the story from
then until now.
And I said go back to thebeginning and tell me what
happened.
And he said well, he said fourmonths ago, my two teenage
(08:35):
daughters were on their way homefrom college for a weekend and
they had an automobile accidentand one of our daughters died
and we had to cash in our lifesavings to pay for her funeral
and my wife was on bereavementleave and while she's on
bereavement leave she doesn'tget paid.
So we don't have enough money topay the mortgage payment.
Wow, and I said, okay, that'swhat you need to put in your
(09:00):
hardship letter, because thatmortgage company get their phone
rings off the hook every day.
They're talking to homeowners,okay, who aren't paying.
So you really have to make yourcase.
And so some people will tellhomeowners to keep their
hardship letter to a paragraphor two.
Make it short and sweet.
That's not what I say.
I say if it takes you 10 pagesto write your letter, you take
(09:23):
10 pages to write your letterbecause at the end of reading
your letter that person willdecide whether they're helping
you or not.
Your letter will make or breakyour deal.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You know, I've heard that where some of the we'll say
gurus out in the industry waslike, like you said, keep it
short, but with these threepointers it's like you can't
keep it just to a paragraph,right?
So if you don't get anythingout of today, your hardship
letter pretty much pour yourheart out and go back to the
(09:55):
beginning of where it allstarted.
Now, now I know you say youwere loss mitigated.
So in today's time will thatloss mitigator read that five to
10 page letter?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, they're still reading the letters.
They get scanned into thesystem and they get read,
because that's how theydetermine whether you qualify or
not.
So they are reading the lettersand they're very important.
So as a negotiator, it was myjob to contact delinquent
homeowners and, if at allpossible, cure the delinquency,
bring the loan current so thatthe homeowners can make the
(10:30):
payment, because the name of thegame at the insurance company
is don't pay that claim or payas little as possible.
You know how it works girl.
Well, let's say it's a $100thousand dollar loan with 10%
mortgage insurance.
So if the mortgage company, theinsurance company, just sits
back and lets this property goto foreclosure sale, we're going
(10:54):
to pay 10% of the outstandingbalance on the loan.
So, a hundred thousand dollarloan, 10%.
We're going to write a claimcheck for $10,000.
But if I can fix it so thehomeowner can make the payments
on a go-forward basis and thatproperty doesn't go to
foreclosure sale, I just savedthat insurance company $10,000.
(11:14):
So my job as a negotiator wasto contact delinquent homeowners
, talk with them, make sure theyhad a valid hardship okay, have
them pull together theirdocuments, write a hardship
letter, submit it in Okay, wewould run it through the system.
And so the process.
Homeowners, there's nothing foryou to be afraid of.
You have been through thisprocess before.
(11:36):
It is the same exact process asloan origination.
So you're going to submit bankstatements, tax returns Okay,
pay stubs.
You're going to fill out afinancial form, just like you
did to get the loan.
They're going to pull yourcredit report okay, they're
going to read your hardshipletter.
So there's nothing, homeowners,don't be afraid.
(11:57):
You've been through thisprocess before.
The only difference is, insteadof verifying income and assets.
They're just looking to makesure you're not hiding income
and assets and as diligent asthey were in making sure that
you were telling the truth.
Because when you lie, cover upby trick, scheme or device a
(12:19):
mortgage company, that is calledmortgage fraud.
Okay, and you'll go to jail fora long, long time if they catch
you.
I do not recommend that youever try to lie to your mortgage
company.
Always tell them the truth.
So they're going to fill outthat financial form.
So it's the same process asloan origination.
We're just looking to make surethat you truly don't have any
(12:42):
assets.
And here's two big misnomers forconsumers out there.
Misnomer number one my creditsucks because I've been
struggling financially.
And when I got the loan, theone thing I learned about
mortgage companies is you got tohave a good credit score in
order for them to work with you.
But when you're going throughthe loss mitigation department,
(13:02):
that bad credit score justsubstantiates your claim that
you are struggling financially.
So if you have poor credit,don't let that stop you.
You still need to be talkingwith your mortgage company.
Ok, so don't be afraid.
It's the same process as loanorigination.
The same types of documentsyou're going to fill out and
submit to that mortgage company.
(13:23):
Ok, and be honest.
Okay, when you're filling outthe forms.
And hey, if you got a $5million house and it's only
selling for three and you got amillion dollars in a bank, it's
still not enough money to coverthe difference between the sale
and what you owe.
You still could be in troubleeven though you got a million
dollars in the bank.
(13:43):
Okay, so fill out.
The form needs to be true, itneeds to be accurate, it needs
to be correct.
I'm going to send that into themortgage company.
So I was a negotiator for themortgage insurance company
calling delinquent homeowners,getting them on the phone,
trying to get them to do workoutdeals, and I did that for
several years.
And then I became theircorporate default manager,
(14:26):
started traveling around thecountry going to large mortgage
servicing shops, holdingtraining sessions for their
collections department, fortheir loss mitigation department
.
Tip number three for yourlisteners how do you know you're
in the right department?
Because collections their jobis to collect in full or get you
to foreclosure as fast aspossible.
It is not their job to help youdo a workout deal Okay, and the
only thing a collector canoffer you is to make a payment
in half.
So if they answer the phone andsaid, hi, this is Juilliard
Mortgage Company and you said,look, something happened to me,
(14:48):
I can't make my mortgage payment, they're going to say here's
your options you pay in fulltoday on the telephone or you
make a payment in half for thenext, however, months until your
current.
Other than that, we are sendingyou to foreclosure.
You are talking to a collector.
You're talking to the wrongperson.
They get bonus measured andpaid to collect in full, not to
(15:08):
help you with a workout deal.
OK now, after being a corporatedefault manager for several
years, mortgage investor came tome and I went to work for them
and I was their on site lossmitigation consultant at one of
the top five mortgage servicingdepartments in the country.
I had a $5 million stop losslimit, so as long as it wasn't
(15:30):
more than $5 million, they couldwalk into my office, which was
on site at the mortgage company,and they could lay a deal in
front of me and I had theauthority to look at that.
And so it was my job to managemortgage servicers and make sure
that they were offeringhomeowners who were in default,
who had a valid hardship, aworkout opportunity.
(15:51):
Now, what's a valid hardship?
What will get you a deal withyour mortgage company?
Death, divorce, illness,military deployment,
self-employed borrower with adecline in business?
There are a lot out there ofoptions that will get you a deal
(16:12):
with your mortgage company.
What doesn't?
Well, I had a baby and Idecided I didn't want to go back
to work.
And they are not doing a dealwith you just because you
decided you didn't go back towork.
(16:32):
Okay, did you see that?
Did you see that?
Yes, and it's one of thebiggest ones.
That happens all the time.
Well, what happens is they havethe baby and then they realize
how much daycare costs.
And when they sit down and lookat the dollars and cents, by
the time they have to get theirclothes cleaned, pay for lunch
at work, pay for daycare for thebaby and all the stuff that
(16:55):
requires, then it actually costsmore money than it would be
just to stay at home.
And so the wife says I'm notbecause I have two or three kids
, and when you start adding upthat much in daycare, it really
does.
So just because you quit yourjob to stay at home and take
care of the kids, that is notgoing to get you a workout deal
with your mortgage company.
My boss is a horse's patootie,so I quit my job.
(17:18):
Well, you knew you hadfinancial obligations.
You should have lined up a newjob before you quit that old job
because you knew you had amortgage payment to make.
We do not do deals with peoplewho just willy-nilly quit their
job.
However, sometimes exceptionscan be made.
So the negotiator comes into myoffice and she says Julie, I
(17:44):
know that Freddie Mac investorguideline is you don't do
workout deals with people whoquit their job.
But let me tell you what'sgoing on.
There's this nice young couple.
They live in Clayton, northCarolina.
The husband has a sister.
She was a crack addict.
She got pregnant, went to thehospital, gave birth to the baby
and during the night she snuckout and left the baby behind.
(18:05):
His name was listed on thepaperwork when she was admitted
to the hospital.
The hospital called him up andsaid it's you or social services
?
And he said, no, we'll take thebaby.
But because of the mother'scrack addictions, the daycare
centers would not take thatchild till it was a year old
because of the healthcomplications associated with
her addiction.
So his wife had quit her job tostay at home for the year and
(18:28):
take care of that baby.
And the negotiator said now Iknow you don't do deals with
people who quit their job tostay at home and take care of a
baby.
But I thought, if I explainedthis to you, that you would be
willing to waive the guidelineand make an exception.
So if the mortgage company istelling you, homeowner, that
(18:48):
there is a guideline and you'renot meeting it, you need to say
to the person over the phonelook, you can't make the
exception for me, but you knowwho can Transfer me to the
person who has the authority,who can make an exception on my
behalf.
Okay, and so if they're tellingyou you're not meeting the
(19:10):
guidelines, ask them whoseguideline is it?
And can you get me through?
Is it the investor's guideline?
Is it the insurance company'sguideline?
Whose guideline is it?
Give me their number so I cancall them up on the telephone
and talk with them.
Now here's another helpful hint.
It is much better for thehomeowner to make this call
(19:30):
themselves.
I know they don't know anythingabout mortgages.
They don't know anything aboutinvestors or mortgage servicers
or mortgage insurance companies,none of that stuff.
But here is the truth, the rawtruth.
It is very easy for me to say tothe real estate agent no,
because then you have to callthem back and tell them over the
(19:52):
phone that the investor said noand listen to them cry, and
it's really hard.
Okay, she's already crying onthe phone that the investor said
no and listen to them cry, andit's really hard.
Okay, she's already crying onthe phone, but when he starts
crying too, those are reallyhard conversations to have.
It's easy for me to say totheir attorney no, because then
their attorney has to call themon the phone.
It is very difficult for me tosay directly to the homeowner no
(20:16):
, I'm not going to help you.
Okay, because in the back of mymind I'm thinking as soon as I
hang up the phone what is thishomeowner going to do?
Are they going to go to that?
I hate my mortgage companywebsite which tells them the day
before foreclosure, run down tothe home improvement store and
(20:38):
you buy a couple bags of cement.
And if your pipes run throughthe cement slab and that's how
they build them in Texas, onslabs, with all the pipes
running through the cement slaband they pour cement into their
pipes the day of the foreclosuresale, now what does the
investor have to do with thatproperty?
Scrape the house to the groundand all they have left is a
vacant lot.
(20:58):
That homeowner thinks they haveno power over that investor or
that insurance company, but theinvestor and the insurance
company and the mortgageservicer are very concerned
about what that homeowner mightdo to this house.
Amy, have you ever seen some ofthese houses by the time they
get to foreclosure sale?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Oh yeah, and you know what?
There is a movie out about that.
What happened back in 08, 09,there is a movie out I think
it's something 99, and it showedpeople putting stuff where
stuff don't need to be on.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I'm telling you, I had one one time.
If I hadn't seen the paperworkand the photos for myself, I
never would have believed it.
They took the windows, thedoors, all the trim, all the
light fixtures, the switches,the outlets, all the appliances,
the toilets, the tubs.
They rolled up the sod out ofthe yard and took the air
conditioning system off the pad.
(21:54):
It was nothing but walls on adirt patch, and they took some
red spray paint and they wroteme some messages that I cannot
repeat over the air because I'msure that you would be in
trouble and so would I.
Okay, these people, they arevery mad because nobody they
feel like nobody's helping them,and the reason is is because
(22:14):
they keep hitting collectionsand they can't get through.
So, as I was out working onsite at this mortgage servicing
shop on behalf of the investorfor a couple of years, I made
friends with the people whoactually do the jobs and after a
couple of months they startedto feel sorry for me and they
started to tell me the truth.
(22:34):
Okay, I know the VP explainedit to you this way, but let me
show you how this really works.
My friend Wanda, who is themanager of a collections group,
pulled me aside one day and shesaid girlfriend, let me tell you
how this really works.
The VP of collections gets abonus at the end of the year and
(22:55):
it's based on three things.
The first thing is call talktime.
We have to keep our call talktime under two minutes.
There is a giant board up inthe corner of the room of
collections and across the boardit says we have 15,000 calls to
make today.
Currently we've made 5,000 ofthose calls and our average talk
time is and if it's over twominutes the board turns red.
(23:15):
If it's under two minutes it'sgreen.
So you, out of the corner ofyour eye as a collector, can see
that board turn from green tored.
And what do you know?
You need to make more callsfaster because we're over on the
time.
So at the end of the year wasthe call talk time less than two
minutes and in two minutes it'snot time enough for that
homeowner to explain what'sgoing on.
It's time enough for the personto say paid a day in full
(23:43):
payment in half for the nextcouple months or we're sending
you to foreclosure and get offthe phone.
Okay, she said.
The second thing they'remeasured on is what percentage
paid in full.
Of all the people we spoke toat the end of the year, did 90%
of them pay their loans currentlike they were supposed to?
If they did, yahoo, I'm gettinga big old fat bonus.
And then the third thing iswhen we look at our delinquent
(24:05):
portfolio, where do the bulk ofthese delinquent loans fall?
Do they fall into the 30 daybucket, meaning the 15th of the
month has passed and they've notyet made their mortgage payment
, but it is not past the end ofthe month.
So technically they just haveto make a late payment.
And as long as they make thepayment and it's applied prior
(24:27):
to the last business day of themonth, they don't get reported
to the credit bureau.
The only thing that happens isthey pay the late fee $50 to the
mortgage company.
And you know what the mortgagecompany gets to keep that money.
They'd like every singlehomeowner to make their payment
on the 17th, because the onlything that would happen is they
will collect more money.
(24:48):
So if the bulk of thedelinquent loans fall into that
30-day bucket of collectors, yah, that VP is getting a big old
fat bonus at the end of the year.
But if the bulk of thosedelinquent loans fall 60 to 90
or 90 to 120 days into fall.
(25:09):
Now it's costing money.
They're having to hireforeclosure attorneys, they're
having to do drive-bys and Idon't mean a bang bang bang
drive-by oh, they'd get moremoney if they did it that way.
What I mean is they have hireda real estate agent to drive by
the house and do what they calla BPO, a broker's price opinion,
and it just tells them threethings.
(25:30):
One, is there a house there?
And I've gotten these beforeand it said there's no house
there and it turned out to beloan fraud, okay.
Two, does it look like thepeople in the house are the
people who should be living inthe house?
Because sometimes the homeownershey, if they don't want to stay
, amy, they will get a truck inthe middle of the night, they
(25:50):
will pack all their belongingsand drive away before the sun
comes up and you will never hearfrom them or see them again.
Okay, they will disappear.
You cannot make them stay ifthey want to leave.
And I've had homeowners thatwe've hired attorneys and then
gotten sheriffs, evicted themout of the property and over the
(26:10):
weekend they busted in thewindows and got back in the
house again and we had to gothrough the process all over to
get them out.
So if they want to stay, youcan't get them out, and if they
want to go, you can't stay.
So really, that homeowner'sdesire is key, because you can't
make them do what they don'twant to do okay.
So let's see where was I got offtrack, talking about, or?
(26:33):
Sometimes I just get so workedup.
So I was trying to helphomeowners do workout deals my
entire career and then, in 2003,I looked around and I could see
2008 coming like a freighttrain in the night.
We were in the middle of there-fi boom.
Okay, my husband, the loanofficer, making money hand over
(26:57):
fist.
All you needed was a heartbeatand the ability to sign your
name with a credit score of 580.
And that's bad, ok, and theywould give you a stated yeah.
Now, internally in the industry, we call them liar loans
because we knew the homeownerwas lying to us when we looked
(27:21):
across the table and said nowyou just tell me how much money
you earn, and I'm not going toverify a thing, I'm not asking
anybody, you don't have toproduce any documents and the
homeowner said well, in thatcase, I make one hundred fifty
thousand dollars a year.
And I said now tell me how manyassets you have, and, as a
matter of fact, I'm not going toverify those.
And I said well, I got $250,000.
And so we knew that washappening and I looked around
(27:44):
and I knew, when you were doing100% financing no money down,
with a credit score 580, statedincome, stated asset loan I knew
where this was going.
Okay, this was going toforeclosure, sale these people
as soon as they somethinghappens a flat tire, a flat tire
on the car?
Okay, the refrigerator dies, assoon as something happens, they
(28:06):
are not going to be able tomake that mortgage payment and
they are going into fault onthis loan.
And so I looked around and Isaid you know what?
Nobody is teaching the realestate professionals about this.
We're teaching them about loanorigination, but now that this
homeowner's got a 30-yearmortgage and all these things
can happen to him, it's calledlife.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You can't expect to go through 30, 40, 50, 60 years
of life and nothing bad everhappened to you, but if
something bad, a hardship, wereto happen to you, that there are
options available to homeownersout there.
And so in 2003, I trotted ondown to the North Carolina
Banking Commission, the NorthCarolina State Bar and the North
Carolina Real Estate Commissionand I said, hey, I'm going to
(28:51):
teach your licensees how to workwith delinquent homeowners.
And they said girl, don't youknow?
We're in the middle of the refiboom and all you need is a 580
credit score and we have theability to sign your name in a
heartbeat and we'll give you aloan.
And I said I know, and I knowexactly where these are going.
And I am here to tell you,after speaking with tens of
(29:11):
thousands of delinquenthomeowners over my many, many
decades in this industry, thatthe first call they make is to
their loan officer or themortgage broker.
And it sounds like this hey,bill, it's Julie.
Look, I wanted to give you acall because I lost my job two
months ago.
I thought by now I'd haveanother one, but when they
(29:32):
closed the plant, all of us gotlaid off, so the job market got
flooded and I cannot find a jobto save my life not any kind of
job and now I need some money tocatch up on my mortgage loan
and hold me over till I can geta job.
At which point the loan offersaid oh, you're unemployed.
You see, that's going to be aproblem and you're not paying on
(29:57):
the loan that you currentlyhave with us.
And if you're not paying on theloan you have now, I can't make
you another loan.
And the loan officer hangs upthe phone from the homeowner,
who now calls to their realestate agent and said hey, since
you sold me the house, I'mthinking about selling the house
.
Why don't you stop on by, takea look at it, tell me what you
(30:20):
think I can get?
And the agent says sure.
And at three o'clock I, thehomeowner, called to my mortgage
company and I said how much doI owe you?
What's my unpaid principalbalance?
I said, julie, you owe us$200,000.
I said thank you very much andI hung up the phone.
The agent showed up at seveno'clock at my house and sat down
with my husband and I, gave usa very nice presentation and
(30:41):
then, at the very end, she saidbased on the most recent sales
in your neighborhood, I thinkthe best we can do for you is
$175,000.
Isn't that great.
Now I am doing the math in theback of my head.
$200,000 minus $175,000 means Igot to come up with $25,000
just to pay off the mortgagecompany.
That doesn't count the realestate commission or any closing
(31:04):
costs.
I got to pay and, heck, if Ihad that kind of money, girl,
I'd be making the payment Tillthe real estate market turned
around.
Then I would sell the house andmake money on it.
So my husband and I, we lookedat the real estate agent and
said thanks for coming, we'regoing to talk about it and we'll
give you a call.
And we let the real estateagent walk out the front door.
(31:25):
We looked at each other andsaid I guess we're just waiting
for a foreclosure sale becausewe don't have any other options
available to us, when in fact,if they did get in to the loss
mitigation department, there areoptions.
So earlier I said how do youknow the difference?
How do you know when you're inthe right department?
And I said I explained howyou'd know if you were in
(31:47):
collections.
In law mitigation, the veryfirst thing they're going to say
to the homeowner is we can't doa thing for you till we have
your financial packets.
So we're going to send a letteroff to you.
It's going to tell you how towrite a hardship letter.
It's going to have a blankfinancial form for you to fill
out and then it's going to havea list of documents that you
need to attach bank statements,pay stubs, tax returns and
(32:08):
you're going to send that stuffback into us.
We're going to enter it intoour system.
We're going to pull your creditreport.
We're going to order anappraisal.
We're going to load that intothe system, just like we did
with loan origination Okay,except for on the back end.
It's a different system.
We're going to load it in thereand then it's going to generate
which options you qualify forRepayment plan, special
(32:33):
forbearance, loan modificationokay, short sales deed and lose
special forbearance.
So there are lots of optionsavailable to homeowners out
there.
They just have to get to theright department.
So that's how you know ifyou're in the right department.
If they are not asking you fordocuments and telling you you
(32:53):
have to write a hardship letter,you're in the wrong place.
And so my friend Wanda said andto add insult to injury.
Here's the deal At the end ofthe day, when the collectors are
done, there is a report that isgenerated and if they see that
you did anything other than hangup the phone if you transferred
(33:17):
that call over to lossmitigation, the first time you
get a verbal warning.
The second time they write youup because it puts the loan in
the more than 30 days delinquentbucket which is having a
negative impact on the VP'sbonus.
They don't want you doing that.
So if a collector heard youtalking about your hardship and
(33:39):
they felt sorry for you, this iswhat would happen at that
servicing shop I worked atBecause I would train those
collectors.
These are valid hardships.
When you hear a homeowner saythese words, transfer them to
loss mitigation.
That's when Wanda said theycan't Because if they transfer
it over it shows up on thereport at the end of the day.
First time they get a verbalwarning, second time I write
them up and the third time Ifire them.
(34:00):
So what these collectors do isthey write the loan number on a
sticky note, then they have toask for permission to disconnect
from the call queue to go tothe restroom and they walk
through loss mitigation and theythrow these sticky notes in the
chairs.
And everybody in lossmitigation knew exactly what
that was when you came back toyour desk and there was a sticky
(34:21):
note in your chair.
Somebody from collections hadtalked to a homeowner that they
felt terrible for and theywanted to help.
But if they transferred thecall over and you see, I looked
around and said, oh my gosh,they have got a system.
And if you don't know how thesystem works and I, at this
point, at 20 years in my career,working with insurance
(34:43):
companies, investors andmortgage servicers, and I had no
idea this is how it worked andif I had no idea, the real
estate agents, the loan officersand the attorneys out there,
they had no idea.
The real estate agents, theloan officers and the attorneys
out there, they had no idea.
And so I need to teach themabout this.
So when the consumers come tothem and ask them for help, that
you can point them in the rightdirection, into the loss
(35:03):
mitigation department, wherethey can talk to the people who
can help them.
Okay, and so if you are behindon your mortgage, this is what
you need to do Go back and get astatement from when you are
current, because when you arecurrent on your mortgage, it is
(35:25):
the 1-800 number to customerservice that prints on your
statement.
As soon as you get behind onyour payment, the 1-800 number
on your statement is the 1-800number to the collections
department.
That is who you want to betalking to.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Can you repeat that, because I think everybody needs
to hear this.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Okay, everybody, make sure you're writing down With
that pen and pad you're going togo back and you're going to get
the statement when you werelast current and you're dialing
that 800 number.
So you're talking to customerservice because as soon as
you're delinquent the 800 numberon your statement is the 800
number collections, where theyget bonus measured and paid to
(36:07):
collecting you at full.
Okay, they do not get paid tohelp you work it out.
Now you're going to call andthe very first thing you will
hear is the automated attendantWelcome to Julie Iden Mortgage
Company.
Please enter your loan number,don't.
If you enter your loan number,the computer will recognize it
(36:27):
as a delinquent account andwhere will it transfer the call?
To Collections.
So do not enter your loannumber.
If you hold on, eventually areal live customer service rep
is going to come on the phone.
They're going to say welcome tojuliette mortgage company.
Can I have your loan number?
Please do not give them yourloan number.
(36:48):
As soon as they pull up yourloan and they see it as a
delinquent account, what arethey told to do with all
delinquent accounts, no matterwhat the homeowner says, you
send them where To collectionsso they can be collected on in
full.
So here's what you say.
Before I give you my loannumber, let me tell you why I'm
calling Because these people,they don't get paid to fix it,
(37:09):
they get paid to identify whatthe issue is and get you off to
the right department.
So you're going to say here itthey get paid to identify what
the issue is and get you off tothe right department.
So you're going to say here'swhat I need.
I need to be on the phone withyour loss mitigation department
Now.
Hold on, before you transfer me, I want you to give me the 800
number directly to thatdepartment.
So from now on, when I call into the mortgage company, I am
(37:30):
calling the department who getsbonus measured and paid to help
homeowners with workout deals,not the department who gets
bonus measured and paid tocollect in full or get you to
foreclosure as fast as possible.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Wow, that right there was worth a whole diamond
Liking it to a salmon swimmingupstream.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
these homeowners have gone off into the wrong
direction, into collections.
They've got trapped here andthey can't get out and they're
dying.
Okay, they had no idea thatthere was an entire department
who gets bonus, measured andpaid.
Okay, to do workout deals forYale.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Wow, who would have known?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yep.
So for the last 20 years I'vebeen driving around North
Carolina teaching real estateagents, loan officers, mortgage
brokers about what these optionsare, how they work, what needs
to be pulled together.
And they catch on very quicklybecause it is very, very similar
to loan origination and they'relike yeah, I can point my
people in the right direction.
(38:39):
Not only can I help them getinto the mortgage, but God
forbid if anything went wrongand they called me up.
I know enough now that I canpoint them in the right
direction and get them into theright department.
Okay, and I can help them.
I've had homeowners call me onthe phone and say you have no
idea what you have done for usMortgage company called me on
(39:02):
the phone.
They said you guys have themortgage insurance on this loan.
Here's what happened.
This young couple has afour-year-old daughter who's got
leukemia.
Doctors have done everythingthey can do.
There's nothing else they cando for the child.
They've given the child threemonths to live.
The mother and father have beenapproved for family leave.
But on family leave you don'tget paid.
You just guaranteed your job, ajob, not even your job, just a
(39:25):
job when you come back.
So they wrote into the mortgagecompany.
They gave them the letters fromtheir employer showing that
they weren't going to be makingany money for the next three
months and they weren't going tobe able to pay.
And that negotiator called meup at the mortgage insurance
company and said okay, julie,they got a thousand dollar a
month mortgage payments and forthe next three months they're
not going to pay.
And I said look, it's a hundredthousand dollar loan with 10%
(39:47):
insurance and if it goes toforeclosure, I'm looking at
paying a $10,000 claim.
Do I want to lend them three orpay 10?
Lend them three or pay 10.
I said I'll tell you what I'mgoing to do.
I'm going to advance $3,000 toyou, the mortgage company, right
now.
You're going to put it insuspense, as each month, as the
payment comes due, you're goingto pull the money out of
(40:07):
suspense and apply it to theaccount.
They're never going to go intodefault.
They're never going to have alate fee In the future when they
go to get more credit.
They're not going to have tobring this up and have to
explain to stranger afterstranger after stranger what
happened.
They'll never get a call from acollector.
They'll never be referred to aforeclosure attorney.
Okay.
And when they found out thatthis is what we were going to do
(40:32):
for them, they said you have noidea what you have done for us.
We could spend the last threemonths focused on the most
important thing to us and nothave to tell stranger after
stranger, because that mortgagecompany doesn't call you once a
month, they call every day.
Okay, until the loan is broughtcurrent.
They're on an automatic dialer.
(40:52):
It's a computer, it's not aperson and it's calling every
single day.
And we would have had to tellsomebody every single day what
was going on with us.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Wow, wow.
This has been amazing and Ihope the listeners have received
some valuable gems today and Ihope they took notes.
This is one.
I would say this is one podcastyou want to download rewind
because Julia dropped some majorgems.
(41:26):
So, julia, you mentionedhomeowners, that you work with
homeowners, so are you currentlydoing that now, helping
homeowners?
Are you strictly work with likepeople like myself agents,
attorneys?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I mostly work with agents and attorneys, but every
now and then they'll getsomething and they'll say look,
this is really out there.
And instead of me having torelay all the information
because it's a lot ofinformation I've had consumers
who said to me the stuff thatthe mortgage company is asking
for now is more than I had toproduce to get the stinking loan
(41:59):
to begin with.
But if you want a workout deal,that's what you're going to
have to do, and sometimes theyhit roadblocks.
So they call me because they'retrying to get past those
roadblocks.
So I do do some consulting withreal estate professionals when
they're trying to help consumerswork out deals, awesome,
awesome.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Well, definitely, look, I got you in my back
pocket.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So you'll have me back again.
Yes, yes, because Wow, we cando another run on workout
options, because we didn't evenget to talk about those hardly.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I know that that is definitely something.
Yes, because the homeownerneeds to know everything that
that goes on and they can do itthemselves.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
That's right and filling out the financial forms.
All you need is a littlecoaching to make sure you're
filling it out correctly.
Ok, and so that could beanother part of it.
So more information may be tocome to those listeners.
Go ahead Call Amy, email her,all right.
Well, we thank you so much forbeing on Foreclosure Chronicles,
(43:07):
julia.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
All right.
Well, we thank you so much forbeing on Foreclosure Chronicles,
julia, and, yeah, youdefinitely will be coming back.
If you like this episode,please, please, please, download
it on all your favoriteplatforms, except for Apple.
I'm not on Apple or iTunes yet.
Get in there.
(43:30):
Make sure you subscribeForeclosurechroniclescom and
share, if you know someone thatis in foreclosure or going
through a distress situation,for this podcast to them.
Again, julia, thank you so much, and everyone have a great day.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Thank you you.
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