Episode #11: 2023 Hungarian GP

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Greetings and welcome to Formula XX, a podcast by
2GenX women talking aboutFormula One and other
motorsports, usually with adultbeverages and always with adult
words.
So if you're under age, easilyoffended or a fan of Red Bull
Racing, turn back now.
We aren't neutrals, so we doour best to be fair and unbiased
when it suits us, and if we'renot, that's okay, you get to
come along for the ride.

(00:21):
Today we're talking about the2023 Hungarian Grand Prix.
We're going back in time acouple of weeks, so if you
caught our most recent podcast,you'll know that we're recording
these in a little bit ofreverse chronological order.
There's quite a bit to coverthis week with Hungary, for
instance.
Nick DeVries got the bounce.
Is Helmut Marco I mean DarthMarco's latest attempt to

(00:44):
control the nature of F1 byreinstituting Danny Ricardo
going to pay off?
Are we going to see his big,happy Australian Grand Front and
Center all weekend long?
Spoiler Alert?
Yes, we are.
Are the Sky F1 commentator kidsgoing to be at least on par
with the average F1 commentator?
Spoiler Alert?
They're going to be much, muchbetter, which is surprised

(01:06):
nobody.
And is the new Qali going togive us the same old, same old,
or is it going to shake up theorder.
Spoiler Alert, it's going to dothe latter.
I'm with Bestie J, as always,talking about the latest and the
greatest in F1.
Jen, where are you and what areyou drinking tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, for I think the last time I am in my room in
Vancouver-ish, because I amgetting ready to move and I am
drinking in my ongoing effort,as regular lists will know, to
finish off as much liquor as Ican before I move.
I am drinking some deliciousShelter Point Smoked Oak Whisky,

(01:48):
which is a distillery inVancouver Island, in Campbell
River, which is where I will betemporarily living for a couple
of months.
So I'm sure you guys will hearway more about Shelter Point and
its delicious whiskey.
Heather, where in the world areyou and what are you drinking?

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I'm in full blown Seattle, just about as dead
center as it's possible to be inSeattle.
And tonight I am still in someweird time loop where I continue
to drink cider, which I didn'tdo for a very long time.
This is hard cider, by the way,and I'm drinking incline, which
is a local cidery which is nottoo far away, and I am having

(02:25):
their Imperial Hazy Honey Crisp,which is quite tasty and a
little envious of your whiskeythis evening.
But I am sure that there willbe a point in the future where I
will get to avail myself ofsome piece of that collection of
whiskey, as I imagine I will bewith the Vancouver-ish crew

(02:45):
this weekend helping yourelocate it's true, and while we
didn't get to cover Silverstonat Silverston, maybe this
weekend we can cover Silverstonat my house or my empty room.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
It might be a very Kavanaugh sounding podcast.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
That's okay, it will still be fun.
We again are basicallyrecording Silverston, hungary
and Belgium in reversechronological order, just
because of our travel schedulesover the last five, six weeks,
and I think it's probably good.
Hungary was quite, actually, Ithink, one of the more

(03:20):
interesting race weekends as awhole.
I'm sort of sad that we didn'tget to experience it in sync
with each other.
This was a weekend that cameimmediately in the wake of
Helmut Marco and ChristianHorner deciding to give Nick
DeVries the boot after 10 races.
I think that's worthy ofdiscussion, both in the context

(03:44):
of my ongoing hatred for RedBull, really more just, sort of
generically, in the context ofhow F1 in general works as a
sport, how Red Bull racingwithin the context of F1 works
as a team, what the return ofDanny Ricciardo means for the
grid other than a millionbillion squealing fangirls all

(04:04):
over the place.
We had an entirely new qualityformat in the unending desire
for FIA and F1 to tweak howthey're doing things in hopes of
finding something that makesthis season less fucking dull
than it really really is, andthe race was interesting.
I think there were quite a fewthings that happened to the race

(04:29):
, for whatever reason.
It seems to me like Hungaryjust keeps giving.
Really, even though it's arelatively short circuit, there
tends to be some interestingracing that goes on, and for a
variety of reasons.
So I think there's lots tocover.
I was really bummed that Icouldn't watch it live.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
At the time, Heather was texting me everything that
was going on the whole waythrough during the race.
I was in Edinburgh.
I was doing a Harry Potterwalking tour with my nephew and
family and I kept looking downat my phone and I was telling
the guide I swear I'm notcheating looking up answers, I'm
just finding it was happeningin the F1 race because there was

(05:07):
like a trivia portion to ourguided tour Balancing die hard
fandoms.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
boys and girls, this is what it's all about.
Yeah, and try to have a littlesympathy for her.
She was getting to strollaround Edinburgh, edinburgh,
doing a Harry Potter tour, so no, I mean, I think it was an
interesting weekend.
I think it was a reallyinteresting weekend.
I think, you know I don't knowhow much you were really
following the Nick DeVries sortof drama that happened.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
It was really sudden in the sense of, you know, the
decision was made, it was clearcut, you're out, didn't feel
like it felt like helmet Marcomade a statement and it seems to
be the way he always makes astatement where you know the
drivers are about to be fired acouple of weeks beforehand he's
like stating to the media in nouncertain terms so and so needs

(05:59):
to shape up or you know, we'llfind someone new in the seat.
And I feel when Darth Marcomakes those statements to the
media like he's already made hisdecision and I know Christian
Horner never really wanted toraise in that seat Like that was
someone Marco decided, not forhim, anything he knew about him
in Formula E, solely on hisdrive for Williams.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, I think you're right.
I mean, all of that has comeout in the afters that Horner
never really wanted DeVries.
I understand that DeVries wasnot doing great in the seat, I
don't.
I wouldn't even say he wasdoing above average, or you know
.
I think the problem that I haveis it's a part of it is just

(06:41):
that ongoing pattern where RedBull is absolutely cutthroat in
the sense that if they don'twant you there, you're gone,
there's no sympathy.
And how that juxtaposition ofthat recurring pattern exists,
probably more importantly in thecontext of where Checo Perez is
right now, is part of adiscussion that's worth having,

(07:04):
I think, in the case of NickDeVries himself sorry, I think
it's more I guess the fact thatokay, he's 27 years old, he's
still a rookie there are 10races in to a season in a car
that is, by all measurablestandards, one of, if not the

(07:25):
worst car on the grid.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
It seems to be horrific, like it's a really,
really bad car Right, it's areally, really bad car.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
So how you were expecting much more out of Nick
DeVries for his first season inFormula One in this iteration of
car, in a really bad version ofthis iteration of car.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, and coming from having driven a Formula E car,
which is a wildly differentbeast than driving an F2 car.
Right, Like you can.
People are making thecomparison like Piatri's doing
fantastic.
Well, Piatri was driving an F2car and while, yes, there are
differences between the F2 carsand the F1 cars, the differences
between the Formula E cars andthe F1 cars are massive.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
And there's a massive difference between McLaren and
an Alphatori.
Yes, so he had all of that.
Plus, there is absolutely, Ibelieve, in fairness, a
psychological you know a hugepart of what goes on in this
sport, and part of what makes itinteresting is the psychology
of the sport and how thedriver's individual mindsets are
playing into things.
So, regardless, I personallyfeel like it wasn't fair for

(08:33):
Nick to get 10 races and then abounce when you have Logan
Sargent, who hasn't been an Iotabetter in the Williams who
hasn't made it into Q2s Miami.
Right, you've got, you know,five races on the bounce, that
Perez has not made it into Q3.
All of these things that are afactor, but at the end of the
day, I think the only takeawayyou can really have from all of

(08:54):
it was there was a granddetermination to get Danny
Ricardo back into a car underthe control of Red Bull Racing,
and what the knock-onimplications were, and at the
time that it happened, it feltspecifically like well, they're
making an in-run threat to ChecoPerez, saying to him without

(09:17):
saying to him directly eitherstep up your game or we'll
simply put Ricardo in that seat.
Then you were getting sort ofmixed messaging in the sense
that you know Red Bull wouldcome out and make a statement
that oh no, checo is absolutelynot going to be going anywhere
prior to the end of his contract, and then Danny Rick would have
a test drive in the Red BullRight.

(09:38):
Well, I mean and by this pointyou've got Danny Rick at
Alphatori coming into thisweekend at Hungary we come to
FP1 and we get to the first lapof free practice and Checo
literally sticks the car in thewall.
He does not even make it aroundthe circuit before he sticks the

(10:01):
car in the wall.
So you know, if you need tounderstand that this is the head
game for these drivers, I don'tthink you have to look any
further than this weekend assort of your case study in how
much that factors in for driversand Checo.

(10:22):
Again, we're time jumpingaround because we're talking
about the Hungarian Grand Prixthree weeks after it's finished,
and you know it happened priorto the most recent race in
Belgium where he really, youknow he was second in the race
and sort of amplified things abit, but you know he's since had
this week has talked about thefact that he feels like when he

(10:43):
lost the car in Monaco, thatthat was where he lost
confidence in the car, and soit's really interesting that
whole contrast of how Verstappenis performing in the car.
And again, I am not by anystress the imagination, trying
to say that it's strictly amental difference between
Verstappen and Checo, I thinkthat is a difference between

(11:06):
them, but not the differencebetween them.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Well, verstappen doesn't have feelings, so
there's nothing to sort of digdeep into there.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Also, the car is completely catered and tailored
to his every driving style, needand wants, and this is
certainly not for Checo etc.
But yeah, you know, like all ofthat is at play.
So we roll into this weekendand Danny Ricardo is just
beaming.
You know there's no lack ofincessant coverage of the fact
that Danny Ricardo is in thatcar and yeah, and sort of

(11:38):
watching how that played out wasfascinating a little bit
because it really was, in mymind, one of the most like wow,
this is a very, very starkexample of how much psychology
is a part of what this group of20 guys is doing while they're
driving these cars or not doingas they're driving these cars.

(12:01):
So, you know, practice was astypical sort of a mismatch of
okay, you can tell McLarencoming off a really strong
performance in Silverstone thatwe still haven't really talked
about and we'll hopefully get tothis weekend in another podcast
.
They, you know they showed up.
They were doing pretty well.

(12:21):
Ferrari was doing pretty well.
Mercedes was really hard toread.
You've got Red Bull, you know,actually having a little more
challenge than they had beentypically.
You know, we've gotten prettyused to them rolling in and just
being like, yep, we've got thesetup nailed down from the first
or second run in the first freepractice and from that they're

(12:41):
simply refining.
That wasn't quite as true forthem in Hungary, and so it was
set up a little more interesting, I think, than some of the
races, and the big talking pointwas we have this new qualifying
scenario where they're requiredto use hard tires in Q1, medium

(13:05):
tires in Q2, and soft tires inQ3.
And I have to confess they also, if I think I'm right.
I think they only had 11 setsof tires instead of the normal
13.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, it's supposed to be there.
There are two sets less becausethat's going to be their big
environmental net zero thing isthat it's.
I mean it does that.
It's fewer Right.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
No, you're right, that's exactly the justification
.
I think the part that wasinteresting that I hadn't
anticipated was it alsotranslated to nobody wanted to
go out.
There were less drivers drivingbecause they were trying to
conserve tires, because they hadtwo fewer tires, and the
drivers were like, yeah, here'sthe thing, this isn't

(13:52):
accomplishing a net positiveanything, because all these
people who came out on a Fridayto see FP1 and FP2 are seeing a
lot less running than theynormally would, because we're
having to completely rejiggerour run plans to accommodate the
fact that we have fewer tiresand we need certain tires for a
quality that we would notnormally ever use in Qali,

(14:13):
especially the hard tires.
And you couldn't get a packingorder that you felt like, oh
yeah, normally I'm pretty usedto at this point by the end of
FP3, kind of having someunderstanding of relative race
pace, having some although maybenot as much in my mind
understanding of one lap paceand a packing order of a sort,

(14:38):
and instead you had the driversgoing yeah, this sucks.
And why don't we look atgetting rid of some of the wet
tires that were allocated everyweekend and never use, and every
one of those gets recycled?

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, get rid of the hard tires.
Everybody hates the hard tires.
Get the fuck rid of the hardtires.
The wet tires, the wet tiresthe wet tires.
Right, I said the hard, butyeah, you're right, the wet, the
full wet, because nobody likeswet, fuckin' venom, yeah, so
anyway that was an interestingbit out of the weekend too.
that at least was a talkingpoint, yeah like I know, lua's

(15:12):
got fucking slammed for sayingthat this isn't the way to go
about looking at doing thisbecause nobody's out driving.
He was the only one thatactually said like what we could
all see that nobody for freepractice was on the track and he
said it's boring for thosepeople, those fans who pay good
money to come out and watch arace and, you know, watch a

(15:32):
Friday and maybe that's the onlyday you can get off, maybe
that's the only day you canafford to come watch these cars
on the track.
They didn't do it.
I mean, it was the same forKuali, right, like I was shit
myself in Kuali.
Mercedes was keeping them inthe garage for ages.
Yeah, it's been a while since.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I've been in the car.
Yeah, in fairness, he wasn'tactually the only person to
mention it all weekend, but, asusual, like he was the only one
to take shit for it, right, likethe unending double standard
which is anything Lewis Hamiltonsays is subject to an entirely
escalated volume of criticism.
When Verstappen says the exactsame fucking thing, crickets
right, it's the commentaryfactor.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
I guess that proves the point, because all I heard
about it because I was barelychecking anything All I heard
about it was that it was Lewiswho had said that, nothing else
when I was away.
Yeah, it does prove the point.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, you're 100% right Now, which brings me back.
We don't have a lot of time totalk about it and I know you
didn't get a chance to see them,but I will not miss an
opportunity to brag on these SkyF1, sky Junior broadcasters.
So I'm not in the UK, we werenot in the UK at the time.
Sorry, I was not in the UK atthe time and Jen was in the UK

(16:41):
but didn't have access to Sky TVbecause you know they make it
FN impossible for you to watchunless you have a license.
Over there, the Sky Junior kidsdid their first weekend and I
F-ing loved these kids.
If you haven't seen them, theydid prop them into each of the

(17:04):
F-P sessions.
Briefly, I know I didn't see afraction of what they actually
did, because mostly we wereseeing sort of social media you
know, reflected instances ofpeople seeing them interact with
these guys.
And that was not all on F1 TV.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I know the UK podcast that I listened to loved the
kids.
They were fucking.
Either loved the kids or one ofthe one of the podcasters was
super fucking choked.
He's like do you know, when Iwas a child, Like his Irish age,
I wrote in to be an F1, we callhim a tater on Sky TV and I
never got to do any of that.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
None of these fucking kids got to do it, but these
fucking kids were fantastic atwhat they did.
This wasn't like we cherrypicked four random kids off the
street.
These kids were poised, thesekids were smart.
These kids were articulatingreally smart observations.
None of them had Red Bulls dickdown their throat, the way that

(18:04):
everyone of the standard comp,like I am so, over the regular
commentary that goes on whetheryou're on the sky feed or the
quote international feed.
These kids were just liketelling it like it is.
Okay, I'm biased.
There was a very high.
We are freaking out because weget to actually interact with

(18:27):
Lewis Hamilton.
Factor for these kids.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
I heard they were all racers as well.
The kids who are doing it wereall some sort of carters.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
I'm not sure if all of them were, but certainly
several of them were.
I didn't hear that backgroundon all of them.
It could possibly be they allwere Certainly Zach, who was
over the moon and was the kidthat we got to see.
Well, we'll talk about what hegot to do later.
Yeah, these were kids who areracing.

(18:55):
They know what they're talkingabout, but again, they were so
articulate which sometimessounds like an over.
They were really poised, whichI think was more.
They were able to say reallyrelevant things about what was
happening.
There was one moment where oneof them was really gushy gushy
in terms of just sort of thenoise, but it was so genuine and

(19:17):
it was so passionate and it wasso much more interesting,
compelling to listen to than thenormal crap and drudge that,
honestly, it feels like we'reenduring.
Every goddamn week in thisalready uninspired, boring ass
season, I literally was likeplease, please, please, please,

(19:39):
bring these kids back on aregular basis.
They won't, but man it was.
It was.
One of the highlights of thatweekend was getting to see how
well these kids did what theywere there to do, and I can't
wait to see if they do continueto find opportunities to bring
this back as some sort of arecurring thing to get kids into

(20:01):
the sport because they werefantastic.
So do you want?

Speaker 2 (20:05):
to talk about quality .
Let's talk about quality.
And for those of you I mean, ifyou made it this far, you know
I didn't watch the race, but Ididn't.
I sorry, I didn't watch therace.
What happened?
I have, in fact, watched therace in quality, watched it like
a couple of days ago, so it'sfairly fresh in my mind.
Quality was interesting.
I thought the tire allocationwas interesting.
I think it'd be.

(20:25):
I don't know how you'd go aboutdoing it right, like it's
supposed to be moreenvironmentally friendly.
It's supposed to help thesmaller teams and I guess in a
way it does, because it meansthat the whoever gets through to
Q3 ends up using more of theirtire, and it's usually the
faster teams.
That said, if you're a Haas,you usually get into Q2 or Q3 if

(20:46):
your car has some shit in thebed, but it also means you've
burned through tires becausethat car eats tires.
Most cars you know eat gas togo.
That Haas eats tires to go.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, I think there's a separate, or at least a
corollary, conversation that isworth having about the wild
disparity that we're seeingbetween one lap quality
performance and race performance, which I think is one of the
few interesting thingstechnically about the season.
At this point I was very likewhatever.

(21:22):
Yeah, it wasn't.
You know, I feel like veryoften what's been happening in
terms of tweaks, be it in sprintraces or quality or anything
else, is manufactured bullshit.
If I'm being blunt, which Ialways am, I just don't often
find a rationale.
I think, even in this casewhere you're talking about, well

(21:44):
, we're saving tires to save theearth, like you and I both know
, if they wanted to really dosomething to save the earth,
they'd be figuring out how toget the calendar sorted and how
to improve efficiency for moving8 million pounds of equipment
and 2,000 people around and thatwould infinitely be more

(22:04):
meaningful than using even 2,000less tires in the season.
Right, it's just 100%, it's justa lot.
So it was super cynical aboutthis sort of like we're changing
things to change things thatsaid, made Q1 super interesting.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Like, yep, like you had both Alpha Romeos right up
there on Merit, right.
Like Joe was going fastest fora while, like it was just
fascinating to see Badass washigh up there.
They both were high up there,and not just because they were
the first cars out to put timeson the clock, they were up there
fastest on Merit, which wasfantastic, because I joked

(22:46):
throughout the season that onlyone Alpha Romeo can do well at a
time, and on holiday both AlphaRomeos did spectacularly well,
like they just nailed everythingyeah it was really fun to see
At the end of the first runs inQ1, there was a half a second
covering the top 12.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
That is insanely close and that's a half a second
including your dear Godlike MaxVerstappen fans.
If you're delusional enough tobe listening to these recordings
, you know that included the RedBulls, so you had this
extraordinarily small time deltabetween first and 12.

(23:29):
You know, again is not the norm.
Now, is some of that trackspecific?
Yeah, probably that's true.
I think where they were waspart of it, but you know it
really really was interestingand anytime you have the field
that compressed, it means youhave some real jeopardy and the

(23:51):
likelihood of not the normalplayers or somebody from one of
the quote, unquote, I don't knowupper midfield teams is in
jeopardy of going out, which iswhat happened.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
George did not make it through, and it was.
I mean, he didn't have the bestlap, but he also.
They just put him out and heonly had a chance to do one lap
and that one lap was not doabledue to all the traffic he was in
.
I worry with this new formatunless they put in some serious
penalties that you have likethere was what like seven or
eight cars all just liketrudging along, I don't know, it

(24:29):
looked like two miles an hour.
I know the cars go faster thanthat, but before they went on
their flyers right Likeeverybody, was just slowed to a
stop.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
I don't disagree with the concern.
But again, my concern with thatwould be how do you get the
strategy that wrong?
Mercedes, in this case, leftthe Mercs out or kept them in
the garage.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
In the garage.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Until extremely late.
They were later than anybodyelse.
They came out with two and ahalf minutes left Two and a half
minutes to go.
And the thing about Hungary isthis is not new Every single
year in Hungary you have aparking lot in qualifying.
That isn't new.
That has happened every singletime they race there, so you

(25:14):
know it's going to be an issue.
So why are you making thedecision to put them out late
rather than at least mid-pack,like?
I understand you don't want tobe the first ones out because of
evolution, but there's abalance in there and Mercedes
blew it.
Well, they shit the bed hard.
Well, they shit the bed.
But I also think George made abad choice, a little bit right,

(25:39):
like there was an element ofthis.
That was the quote unquotegentlemen's agreement, which
everybody has now heard 110times in the commentary, doesn't
actually exist, which is ifeverybody queues up and doesn't
start overtaking everybody, thenmaybe everybody gets across the
line, but inevitably somebodygets impatient because their

(25:59):
engineer is in their ear tellingthem get your ass moving, get
around everybody and get started.
And so if you're not theaggressor in that situation, you
get caught out, which is whathappened to George, which then,
in turn, fed what we saw in Spa,which we had George
overreacting the other direction, bypassing a bunch of people,
including Lewis, getting all outof sorts and fucking both their

(26:22):
laps right, so like it wasliterally the bookend these two
races.
What happened to George in Q1in Hungary, I believe, was a
factor in what happened in Q3,sq3, pardon me, in Spa.
I fully agree Both of whichtotally avoidable by having
better feedback from the team.

(26:42):
So to your point, georgecrapped the bed or had the bed
crapped.
Whatever it was, he doesn'teven get out of Q1.
I feel it was a mutual bedshitting endeavor.
There was a mutual bed shittingendeavor.
I don't disagree with thatstatement in any way, shape or
form.
At the end of the day, q1 wascovered by 1.1 second, 1.1

(27:07):
second between 1st and 20th.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
That's incredible, like it's just something about
what all these cars are capableof on their best day, and it
feels like most of them and thedrivers were at the top of their
game right there.
Even when you have George andMercedes really fucking up, it
doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
They were still all so close to each other
Absolutely, and microsecondsmake the difference.
So we go from Q1 to Q2.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Who was out in Q1?
I don't know.
I just have George out in Q1.
I can tell you Hulk isn't,because my first note in Q2 is
that Hulk's head looks like it'ssplattered in blood.
Nice.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
That was his helmet.
I have Albon Sunoda which is atalking point George K-Mag and
Sergeant All Out.
So it's again.
This was the weekend becauseYuki went out in Q1, which meant
Danny Rick got through andeffectively beat his teammate in

(28:08):
his first outing in his return,the grand return.
The only reason I bring it upis just that Lots of blah, blah,
blah like, oh my God, he'salready beating Yuki in his very
first quality session.
Sorry.
So we're on to Q2.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
As Heather said, sunoda's out and we're waiting
and everybody's out in track andwe're waiting, and we're
waiting, and we're waiting.
And Mercedes, who apparentlydid not learn any sort of lesson
from Q1, holds Lewis out and hewas like Max was already on a
fucking flying lap before Lewiscame out and actually Max.

(28:46):
One of the other things from Q1is that almost everybody had
track limits.
Everyone was getting lapsdeleted due to track limits and
Max was on a hell of a flyerwhich ended up being deleted due
to track limits.
And on the first really hardpushes out drivers who were not
having track limits deleted wereNorris and Piafstri, who came

(29:08):
in first and second.
Which sort of builds fromSilverstone, from McLaren, which
was fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, it was interesting.
The McLaren seemed super turnedon with the medium tires on
board.
Right, they'd been, eh you know, good but not great in Q1 on
the hards when they put themediums on.
Then that car was flying.
So that was definitelyinteresting to sort of see again

(29:41):
in this sort of broader contextof how one lap pace for certain
cars is comparing to their racepace.
We had Perez, who they ran sortof off cycle with everyone else
.
They basically were like okay,you know, here's your
opportunity.
We're just going to give youclear track, we're going to put

(30:03):
you out opposite of everybodyelse, so you have your own race
track to go around on.
Don't spanner it into the wall,checo, get yourself into Q3 for
the first time in five races,which he did.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Checo did a pretty decent showing there.
Max, when he did his second,more conservative lap did not
beat his time, but it did puthim into P1, no P2.
He was P2.
And then Lewis put in a hell ofa flyer once he finally got
going, Like he did two superslow laps and like well, we're
in for another.
Look, Mercedes says not onlyshit the bed strategically, but

(30:39):
that they definitely have nottweaked the car properly for
this track there are.
Any upgrades from Silverstoneare obviously not working.
It was a one-off thing.
This is a catastrophe.
And then he put in a flyer of alap.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
I think Q2 was the point where everybody was really
dialed in.
Again, I'm not fact checkingthis, so if you're listening to
this and you want to go do yourown homework, please do so.
But it was 0.35 seconds thatcovered the top 10.
So the group that got out of Q2and into Q1, 3.5 tenths

(31:12):
covering that group is thetightest.
If I understood it correctly,was the tightest qualifying
session ever.
So you now have those 10 cars.
It was a little Noah's Ark.
You had Norris and Piazzari.
You did not have both Merck's,you had both of the Red.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Bulls, you had both of the Alfa Romeo's which was
being on merit right.
Bada spent it up fourth at theend of.
Q2.
It was amazing.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yep and one Ferrari.
So we lost signs Estee, Bestie,Ricardo Stroll and Gasly, and
Gasly was track limits Lap thathe lost, I think, if I recall
correctly, would have put himthrough.
So, but again, this was anintense Q2.
And that little time is amazingbetween those 10 drivers.

(32:13):
And these differences are justfractional, to be multiple
different positions higher orlower on the grid, which led us
to Q3.
Jen give us the scoop on Q3.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Q3 was another sort of holy fuck, mercedes.
What are you doing with Lewissitting in the garage and
sitting in the garage, andsitting in the fucking garage.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, there was a lot of yelling at the TV at this
particular moment, I have toconfess.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
And even knowing how it was going to end, I still
yelled at the TV, right, likeI'm like what the fuck?
Why is he still, why, why is hestill in the garage?
So they all went out and put onyou know flyers it was Paris'
first time in Q3 since Miami.
Then they all came in and satin the fucking garage for a
while and I get that they'resoft and I get that they're

(33:01):
saving their tires.
But Jesus fuck, like they allcome out and they put in amazing
flyers and Norris, just likesmokes, everyone, and then for
snapping comes through and justyou know barely but gets, you
know, tops, tops, norris, no,there's a thick for the ages.
And then, like you're waitingand I'm yelling, I'm yelling at

(33:23):
the TV and Heather and I watchand this and that, and I'm like
what the fuck she's like?
I know I like this is reallyfucking stressful, because it
was with two minutes and 15seconds to go that Lewis went
out for his lap.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, it was interesting right, Because one
of the anomalies of Q3 after Q2is after the first runs you had
a second and change spreadamongst the field.
So after being super, supertight in Q2, we kind of got this
more massive spread, massive asecond, which is crazy right,

(33:59):
but you had a much bigger spreadafter those first runs in Q3.
And, yeah, you've gotVerstappen Lewis Norris just
sort of neck and neck at the endof Q1.
And we're going in to thesecond run.
Lots of hype, lots ofconversation.

(34:23):
We've been through this now 10races in a row.
We all know how this is goingto end.
The Red Bull in MaxVerstappen's hands is going to
be faster than it was on thefirst lap and everybody has
essentially predicted that thefight is between Verstappen and

(34:46):
Lando Norris.
So out they go.
They're flying, verstappen goesout.
Guess what?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
What happened?
He didn't get the fastest lapin Q3.
He didn't go faster.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
That right.
There was a moment of like, hmm, hmm.
Everybody in the entire goddamnF1 universe had their ear perk
up Because you have a Stappin'Out on track, you have Norris
Out on track improving, but onlymarginally, and you have
Hamilton out on track improving,for Stappin' can't do it, for

(35:23):
Stappin' doesn't do it, hedoesn't improve.
You've got Norris comingthrough, he does a little bit
better.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Norris lost the car too when he was doing his lap.
Norris had a bit of littleshimmies here and there, so you
knew that car was at its limit,like I think he was very close
to losing the car entirely andhaving it off track.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
And Lewis is coming through.
Lewis is also on the hard edgeof that car's performance.
He's got the back end justshimmy, shimmy towards the end.
Those soft tires thateverybody's on at that point are
done, they are cooked, they areat the end of the lap.
It is tight.

(36:03):
The most anticipation, I think,for literally any moment we
have seen in the entirety of the2023 season is those the last
corner onto the straight acrossthe finish line.
Lewis Hamilton by.003 seconds.
Dogs could not hear the screams.
The fact my neighbors did notcall me in and report me for

(36:26):
being murdered in my apartmentwhen Lewis Hamilton took pole in
that race is beyond description.
I cannot even describe.
And it wasn't me.
Boys and girls, that entirecrowd lost its mind when Lewis
Hamilton got that pole.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
You could hear them going and the text that I was
getting from Heather and acouple other friends about
getting Lewis getting pole.
When I was driving around I waslike okay, my phone was going
nuts because the GPS was on andmy mom's like what's wrong with
your phone?
I'm like don't worry about itand we were listening to an
audio book and my phone keptgoing ping, ping, ping, ping,
ping, as we're driving into.
Edinburgh, my mom's like, what'son your phone?

(37:04):
I'm like I'll just mute it fornow and I didn't know if it was
going to be amazing or horrific.
And I'm like, do I want to lookat my phone when we get to
Edinburgh?
I'm like, maybe I don't, maybeit was something super awful and
I'll just keep living in ahappy little world where Lewis
did well and everything is fine.
And it turned out it was anamazing world where Lewis did

(37:25):
amazing.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, it was so many things.
Of course, if you're a LewisHamilton fan, the drought has
been epic, awful and really,really challenging.
So to have that happen hisexcitement, his passion, the
crowd being that enthusiasticand wildly excited, particularly

(37:47):
because he's got obviously avery long and distinguished
track record of winning andperforming well at Hungary, but
that track, because of itsEuropean nature, has been a
stronghold for the Dutch armyfor the last few years.
So there's not really what youwould call a traditional

(38:07):
groundswell of support for LewisHamilton.
At that track.
The enthusiasm of the crowd,his excitement versus what we
have seen in almost every othercircumstance this year was the
absolute proof.
We'll talk about Silverstonenext week.
Silverstone was a crucible ofamazing enthusiasm for

(38:33):
especially the British racers,for obvious reasons, but in
general, having seen in personthat sort of hometown effect
versus a regular weekend andhaving people get like that over
the top excited when so much ofthis season is just about like
unending drudgery.

(38:53):
Max just shows up, he does histhing, he wins by a country mile
.
He gets on the podium.
People listen to the Dutchanthem so goddamn bored.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Well, the announcers have to prompt him to be like
how do you like the crowd, whatdo you think about your team?
And Lewis talks to the team.
He does talk to his team, hethanks the team, but he talks to
the crowd, he plays to thecrowd and they love him.
And why wouldn't you Like?
He's an interesting,charismatic guy.
He looks at the crowd and nothere at Hungary, but often

(39:36):
different countries.
He says hi and thank you to thecrowd in their own, in the
language of that country.
And he broke another record.
I mean, he broke a LewisHamilton record, but he broke
another record.
He's, you know, got the mostpolls.
He has more polls right nowthan every other driver combined
currently on the grid.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah, and that's going to change this season, no
doubt, but it doesn't change howawe inspiring it is.
And will that record be broken?
Yeah, when we're doing 24 and25 races a season and we have an
incredibly dominant vehicle,yeah, like, those records will
fall, which is fine, becausethat's what all records do

(40:18):
they're made to be broken.
They are made to be broken.
Hence Michael Schumacher, henceyou know, whatever, like that's
okay, I will never stoprecognizing after we can like
that, and just watching hisexcitement, his passion.
That is what makes sportinteresting, that's what makes

(40:40):
sport fun.
It doesn't have to be your guywinning, it's just wow.
We're watching somebody who isso uncharismatic.
Take win after win after winafter win, and how uninteresting
it is.
So you take that and you segueinto Louis Hamilton gets this
pole, max Verstappen's in anabsolute snit at the end of

(41:05):
qualifying.
Oh yeah, he was a bag of dicks,he was a bag of dicks.
So, okay, whatever, fine.
And then you have to deal withreality on Sunday, the hype
level going into that goddamnrace on Sunday morning, because
you had Louis Hamilton on poleand Max Verstappen on the front

(41:25):
of the grid, hype, hype, hype,hype, hype.
You know it didn't last for acorner.
No, you have to deal withreality, right?
Which is the bottom line isthat did not go to plan.
Louis had a good start onSunday morning.
Max had a slightly better one,but he got the line yeah.

(41:49):
And then the hype about couldthis be a battle?
How long would this be a battle?
Could Louis win?
Nobody who really understands2023.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Louis could never win right, unless that car was
struck by lightning.
You know, max spun it somehowLike there was no way.
There is no way.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
There was no way.
But again, the interesting partis watching F1 trip all over
itself to leverage, quote, uh,rivalry capitalized in
quotations.
But there was just, oh my God,and you know, I I shared in the
like, the enthusiasm.
Saturday I floated Like I waslike on a cloud, like I was a

(42:32):
little freak of nature on acloud all day Saturday just
because, wow, something I reallyenjoyed happened in F1.
But I never deluded myself thatit was going to lead to victory
or anything, particularly insight enticing on Sunday,
because the car hadn't shownthat.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
I didn't think Max would get the jump or the
McLaren's that quickly, but Iwas very.
No, yeah, oh, did they ever?
Bottom line?

Speaker 1 (42:58):
We get to five lights , we get two lights out and away
we go.
Uh, louis also actually got areally good first phase start.
Uh, so you had both Max andLouis off the line really well.
Also, norris and Dastry wereboth off the line really well.
Um, paris had a good start, joedid not.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
I heard somewhere that what ended up happening and
they're not sure why ithappened instead of you know the
car going, when Joe asked it togo, all of the emergency brake
systems turned on and stoppingsystems turned on.
Yeah, and they're not sure whythat happened.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
That would be a very exciting thing to have
experienced as a driver.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Right, you're like, oh, good Away, we go Fuck.
No, we don't.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Oh.
So in the front you've gotLouis getting away, you've got
Max getting away.
Better in phase two than phaseone, just I think had a little
more launch.
Um.
And then Louis got a tiny bitof wheel spin that gave Max all
he needed to hit the apex.
First he logically andunderstandably pushed Lewis as

(44:01):
wide as possible at the corner.
Pia Street did a brilliant job,totally capitalized on both of
them just shot straight up theinside and got position, and
Norris because Louis at thatpoint is way out on the outside
was able to just simply goaround him as well.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Funny thing wise, when all of that was happening,
like it took me a second torealize that it was Pia Street
in P2 and not Norris.
I was like oh look, norris isin P2.
Pia Street's in P2.
And I actually I asked Heather,I'm like wait, when did Norris
and Pia Street switch positions?
And she was like no, no, piaStreet was always up there.
I was like I totally missedthat.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I was watching what was happening to Joe.
Yeah Well actually.
But the funny part about thatis you weren't really initially
watching what happened to Joe,because the commentary didn't
even mention that until we wereinto the second lap.
That hey, while we were all sofocused on the great rivalry at
the front, which turned out tobe a total dud, you had the

(44:59):
anti-stall emergency system,whatever it was.
Joe not getting off the line,joe finally getting off the line
Joe.
We're ending.
Danny Rick, who pinged himselfinto wait.
I'm going to get it wrong again.
Did he go into SD and SD wentinto Pierre, or vice versa?

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Danny, rick went into Ocon and Ocon hit Gasly.
Thank you, In.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
OMG those.
Could Alpine have had a wackierstretch in these last two weeks
?

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Both cars out, both like Hungary and Silverstone,
both cars out, neither of themtheir fault, it's not Alpine's
fault.
And yeah, this I think shouldgo a bit to the cost cap too.
Like that's two cars outthrough no fault of the drivers.
Right, like both Alpines are atno fault of the drivers, it's
their cost cap going to be nowthat's two races in a row for

(45:54):
cars to repair.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, and they've lost their entire management
structure, so they're having abad stretch.
If you'd like to hear adramatic understatement, I don't
know if Ryan Reynolds has donesomething terrible in a previous
life and it's finallymanifesting, or it's all a
secret plan that he has anaction at this point and they're

(46:18):
getting ready to launch.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
We'll see.
We'll see what the newmanagement team comes in.
But you have a boss and I amnot a fan of this at all but you
have a boss who's gone out intothe press and both said these
drivers are shit and I thoughtthey were good drivers and why
aren't they doing better?
And they don't do better?
We're going to fire both ofthem, which I'm sure is
something he said to them inprivate as well, but that's not
something you should be tellingthe press.

(46:40):
Right, they have no problemwith the boss, who's basically
just like slammed everybody on,like not just the drivers, like
he was saying the engineers areshit, that everybody was shit,
like he did it in a Frenchnewspaper I think it was French
newspaper, a non Englishlanguage no, the CEO, one of the
other guys who's just recentlybeen fired, oh, the same

(47:01):
douchebag that Alan Prost waslike.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Welcome to the prime example of crap leadership yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Well.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Jake's the one.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Maybe you'll remember , or maybe you won't care
anymore.
Yeah right, maybe that's howthat works.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, Okay, because I was like you know, Omar has a
bunch of flaws, but I don'tbelieve I've ever heard him
tacking a shit about the driversbefore?
No, not for Got you Well.
That's a lot of turmoil in asingle team and I think you can
probably put a stake in theheart of Alpine for the next
season as well.
I mean, I would love to saythat that doesn't have a knock

(47:37):
on effect, but I honestly do notunderstand how you chop the
legs off the entire managementstructure, destabilize the team
and think that that's going toyield positive results, Like
they may be able.
Like again at this point there,I think a handful of teams who
are like 2026 is our year yeah,Woot, you know, because there's

(47:59):
not much left to be said,including a couple of teams that
are in the upper midfield andare not accomplishing what they
need to, including a team I rootfor.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
If you'd asked me at the beginning of the season how
Alpine was going to implode, Inoticed that Gazzly and Auk on
one of them will kill the otherby the midseason.
I did not have them bothgetting along fine and having
like being taken out by othercars Right.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Right.
I think we probably talkedabout this in the first episode
that we ever did, which was thatwas absolutely the thing that
you anticipated, given theirhistory, and instead I can't
find any evidence that there'sbad blood between them at all
anymore.
It's going to be trial by fireand hopefully they have each

(48:45):
other to get through it, becauseI think this must be
extraordinarily stressfulbecause you had Australia double
DNF, silverston double DNF,hungary double DNF.
I think Pierre has had someepically shit luck at different
times, not including those threeraces.
Sd has too, although some ofit's been self-imposed pain, as

(49:10):
we know.
He could possibly continueserving penalties for 10 more
races based on his track limitsproblems.
So, yeah, poor.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Alpine man Speaking of bad penalties, coming back to
how this all started, which wasJoe kicking off or not kicking
off?
As it was, he came in for hispit stop at lap 10 and he had a
5-second penalty to serve, whichis an epically long time to be
in the pits.
But then they fucking shit thebed on the penalty or not on the

(49:40):
penalty, on the pit stop timeand he had a 9.7-second pit stop
.
So 5 seconds of penalty and 4.7seconds of pit stop, like they
nearly gave themselves a fullother fucking penalty by that
bad pit stop.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
And they were far from the only epically crap pit
stop there were.
I mean, I haven't seenpost-race, there may have been.
What I will say is I've seenintermittently this season a
breakdown that any one of the F1analysts on pit stop dealt sort
of comparatively between theteams.
Leclerc in that first round hada 9.4.

(50:18):
On the 18th lap A 9.4.
So Noda had a 7.3.
Sgt had a 4.5.
Like what is even going on inthese teams.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
But on the flip side of that, like when Piaf's
Triampira has came into the pitsmuch further down on lap 43,
Perez had a 1.9 second and lateron Leclerc had a 2.2 second.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I think we expect that at a Red Bull.
I think Ferrari we can expectto ride the roller coaster.
It's any given moment.
Who knows what you're gonna get?
It was hard to complain.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Sometimes for Ferrari , you get you know Sykes giving
the decisions about if he'sgoing to pit or not, and
sometimes it's the crew, andthis was no different.
The assumption was that whenSykes was asked to go to Sierra,
it was to bring him in for apit stop and he basically said
fuck you, I'm still gonna bedriving for a while, which was

(51:18):
the right call.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
It was the right call and we've seen signs doing that
from the cockpit for two yearsstraight.
Now it's hard to argue withbecause I think, generally
speaking, you're right.
He's making good strategiccalls, ferrari traditionally not
making good strategic calls, sofair enough to him and making

(51:40):
Ferrari strategic calls, makingFerrari strategic calls.
Speaking of strategy, therewere some you know, different
tire strategies that went on atthe start of the race that we
kind of jumped over, butstrategies again because we had
some drivers out of position,given the new qualifying
structure.
That meant we had some folksstarting on soft, sykes being

(52:03):
one of them, which is whatbrought it to mind.
He made up a number ofpositions early in the race
because he was on those softsand was just, you know, able to
fly by.
George really benefited, whichisn't, again, I don't say this
to take away anything fromGeorge.
He was out of the mess, butbasically four of the drivers
not far in front of him tookeach other out, so he made up

(52:25):
five places very quickly on theopening lap.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
He and Paris were the only ones on hards.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Yeah, for the start of the race if I remember
correctly my brain is telling mesomebody else was on hards, but
I don't remember who.
I know Albon pitted for hardspretty early, but basically,
yeah, you know, there wereobvious reasons, given the fact
that Checo, we didn't reallytalk about it in quality, but he
did get into Q3, but startedpretty far down the pack in Q3.

(52:50):
So he had a lot of overtakingto do.
It is, as a hilarious sidebar,most overtakes of the season.
F1 keeps bragging about it andguess who's at the top of that
list?
Checo Perez.
And guess who's number two?
George Russell.
And it's like that's becauseneither of them is qualifying
particularly well so far thisseason.

(53:10):
Yeah, they're both starting ata position Right.
So when did this become a meritbadge in the brownie troop
excapades of F1 drivers?

Speaker 2 (53:21):
They tried to make something last year, the year
before, because Kimmy Reichenandid so many overtakes in the
first lap or two of multipleraces and fell down the order.
And I know like last year maybeit was the year before they
were saying Alonzo with all ofhis overtakes, and I think this
is like them trying to make it athing, because, god knows,
driver, the J is a fucking joke.

(53:42):
And now I think it was likeovertake.
I think it was like theovertake king or something was
what they were trying to.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
To bill it, as I think Sebastian Vettel was up
there for a bit, yeah, all ofthat is accurate and all of it
just speaks to the fact thatthey're tone deaf to what's
really going on and theyapparently seem to underestimate
the intelligence of everybodywatching.
Because, although you can'toverestimate the intelligence of
everybody watching when fuckingCheco Perez keeps getting,
tired of the day for doing fuckall except starting out a

(54:12):
position and having a rocketship and having a rocket ship
which makes it easy to overtake.
I think again, this was one ofthose races where you were like,
OK, what's actually happening?
So first stint you have, as Isaid, signs is making up some,
some positions on track.
He's very quickly behindCharles.

(54:35):
Ferrari is slow to sort of go.
Hey, you know what You're ondifferent tire strategies
Charles, get out of the way soscience can continue to make his
way up the grid.
You had the McLarens who arejust flying and Lewis Hamilton
is in the lead.
Mercedes really pretty tight.

(54:56):
He's staying within two and ahalf seconds for most of the
first stint, Eventually startsto fall back to three and a half
.
He's in then trying tobasically get ahead, but was
tires fell off a cliff.
I don't know if his tires felloff a cliff.
I actually think again, I willalways give Lewis props because

(55:19):
I think he's fuckingunderestimated and the I hate
Lewis Hamilton brigade gets awild disproportionate amount of
presence online.
But I think there was acombination of things that
happened in that first stint andsome of them are absolutely in
his hands.
I think he had a slow in lapand I think that manifests in a

(55:43):
couple of ways.
I do think his tires were goingoff, but I think one of the
things that happened and havingwatched it now a couple of times
is he also is very, very slowcoming into the pit lane.
So I think he gave up adisproportionate amount of time

(56:04):
on the last sector, which Idon't understand.
Like normally on an in lap,you're like your undercut or
overcut is dependent on youflying as fast as you can on
that in lap and your out lap.
I don't understand whathappened, but he was
exceptionally slow and hebasically lost five seconds.

(56:29):
Now a tiny fraction of that,like a second of that is in the
pit stop, but most of it wasjust that Now on the out lap,
one of the things that we sawLewis doing, that the others
were not like.
Norris jumped his teammate byjust doing a banger in lap and a
banger out lap right and he gotahead of piazzerie by doing

(56:50):
that.
Lewis, on the other hand babies, the fuck out of those tires
brings them in on a much, muchslower.
Gentler, I'm going to keepthese alive for much longer.
They put three laps strategy.
He brought them in onAbsolutely so you know what's
happening there.
But the problem was that thatin lap cost so much time that

(57:17):
then he went from being kind ofthree and a half seconds behind
at that point to being eight,almost nine seconds behind.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Well, and then he comes on and he comes up behind
George God bless George, who's25 on tires, 25 laps old and
just like a raccoon on ice,skates out there late.
You know he did the right likeobviously you know strategy
involved and he moved right overand lost a ton of time

(57:48):
personally to let Lewis by.
But George was just flying.
But Lewis comes on the radioright about that time and he's
like what's going on?
Has the engine turned down?
And Bono's like no.
And he asked where.
And Lewis asked where am Ilosing time?
And Bono was like you're losingtime on the straights, you're

(58:09):
losing time in turn one or turn11 and turn 14.
And that's fucking everything.
It's a straight to high speedcorner in a slow speed corner.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Right, it's, our car is shit.
And the other thing that we'velearned somewhere in that first
stint and I don't rememberexactly where is they are having
trouble managing thetemperatures so effectively.
What we learn more after therace than during the race is
both of them are having to liftand coast early in the race

(58:41):
because they're spiking theengine temperatures and the
brake temperatures, so they'rehaving problems that are
limiting their ability to attack.
So the Mercedes was not whereit needed to be.
It had great one lap pace.
It did not have race trim setup where it needed to be, which

(59:04):
is ironic because, again, mostof the season, what we've seen
is the Mercedes is on single lappace but really comes alive on
race day.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
One of the things we haven't talked about is they
have new side pods for this race, which might have been
affecting how the intake comesand goes goes over the engine as
well to keep it cool, and theymight just not have had time to
test it over a long period oftime to see how it all heated up
and how it all worked together.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
And I would say that in general, what we've seen
throughout the season is, mostTypically, the Mercedes gets
better over the course of theweekend.
But to your point, you makechanges, you bring developments
and sometimes you go backwards.
We saw, and I think maybe wetalked about it in the spa

(59:53):
conversation they once againtweaked the car.
So they made one step here,they made another step in spa
For spa.
They had much bigger coolinginlets.
They reconfigured things againand I sort of thought I wish
they'd had that in Belgium,because heat in the tire against

(01:00:15):
spa, wet cooler, mixed bags,sprint weekend, blah, blah, blah
.
Hard to get the setup right.
In Hungary they had the time todo it.
I just don't think they had theright tools on the car for that
weekend.
And they weren't the only ones.
We've certainly seen AstonMartin not as strong the last

(01:00:39):
couple of races.
Sometimes the developmenteither everybody else is jumping
ahead of you or you're stilllearning about your upgrades,
whatever it is.
So we go through the secondstint and meanwhile back at the
ranch we have Checo and Georgelike millimeters from whacking

(01:01:03):
into each other on ancientfucking tires.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
George is still on his original, hard for this
battle.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah, and I love that for George.
I love that about George thatdespite being on the world's
oldest, worst shit hard tires,he's still like oh yeah, oh yeah
, bring it, bitch, I'm notletting you buy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
It was a great battle on how they didn't take each
other out is fucking Hollywoodshittery.
It's magic that that didn'thappen.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
And somehow, despite that being a really interesting
on track battle, we later findout that Checo Perez is
subsequently given overtake ofthe month for a pass by Oscar
Piestri later, where heliterally nudges Oscar all the
way off the track in yet another.

(01:01:58):
Why would Red Bull ever even be?
Red Bull never gets a penalty.
I could do what I want RedBull's five.
You have Checo and Lewis kindof getting closed down.
Like Lewis at this point isless than two seconds away from
Piestri, we kind of get into apoint where we've hit some
stasis and we go into the secondpit stop phase.

(01:02:20):
Lewis is pretty close, checo'smaking progress, lewis put up a
great fence, piestri's reallyfalling off.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Yeah, he's falling off and off.
Checo is slowly cutting intoLewis' time and when he gets
behind Lewis, checo or Checogets behind Lewis.
Lewis made a hell of a defense,like he fought that car and
made it 10 meters wide and dideverything he could.
But that Mercedes is just notup to any sort of defense

(01:02:48):
against, or nobody's up to anysort of defense against, red
Bull, even if it's just Checodriving.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Well, and then in the end they pitted him.
They didn't.
It didn't become an overtake,they just were like fuck it,
we're going to bring Checo inand put new tires on the car.
The unfortunate part was thatreally put Lewis in a position
at that point, you know, interms of who came in and pitted
when you've got Landau who comesin, and that meant Lewis had to

(01:03:17):
go long.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Landau came in, piestri came in and Leclerc came
in and Alonso came in and itchanged a couple of things.
Yeah, and Piestri had a prettydecent pit, perez had an amazing
pit, leclerc had 2.2, prettygood pit, but he also got pipped
for speeding in the pit lane.
Alonso came in.
Alonso came in and had a 3.3 andprops to the Aston Martin team

(01:03:43):
for it only being a 3.3, becauseAlonso the veteran that he is
that everybody blows smoke uphis ass because he's this
amazing two-time world championforgot to hit the brakes when
the car was lifted up, so therear axle was just spinning and
spinning, and I don't know howmuch people know about tires and
how you change them, but Idon't care what kind of car you

(01:04:04):
have.
When the car is spinning andspinning, you cannot change the
tires.
The tires have to be heldfirmly in position before you
can take any of the nuts off.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah, and to your point, like they still haven't,
only be a 3.3 second stop waspretty fantastic.
It will happen.
I think we've seen plenty of,again in this race alone, 5-7
and 9-second pit stops withoutthat sort of a challenge in the
mix.
So rock star to the AstonMartin pit crew.

(01:04:36):
Charles, in this second set ofpit stops, is able to pit signs
and so, considering the factthat again he had his own
penalty versus I mean, the onlyreason signs was in front of him
was because Ferrari.
Ferrari'd, yeah, but it ended upaffecting the outcome.

(01:04:58):
He sped into the pit lane, sohe had a good stop, but
subsequently had a 5-secondpenalty applied which hung over
his head and impacted who,between the two of them, ended
up ahead of the other.
We then see yet another oddity,which is we've had the Merc a

(01:05:21):
mile behind Good pace, but notamazing pace, up to this point
Progressing pace, I guess, Iwould say.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Yeah, on lap 47, bono comes on the radio and tells
Lewis to go faster.
Lewis goes faster.
Lewis goes faster and faster.
I mean this was like a predatorstocking down its prey slowly
but surely.
And it says something about howthis car handles and how
fucking tweaky it is that whenit's this light getting lighter

(01:05:56):
and lighter and fuel that itjust fucking lights up right,
like that he can get this withlike a probably a third quarter
somewhere between that and hisfuel left, and that this car is
fucking flying Like it's gettingnot necessarily consistently
the fastest car on track, butit's up there as the fastest car

(01:06:16):
on track and faster than forstopping Usually.
Just take him out of the playhere.
But he was holding the zonewith Max and he was cutting in
to Paris and he was cutting into Piastry and he was coming in
closer and closer and closer andsome of it was like a second to
lap and it was just like how,how, why can't we get this when

(01:06:37):
the car is a heavier fuel load?
Why is his car so fuckingtwitchy?
That fuel makes that muchdifference.
Nobody else is like this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Yeah, I certainly have no explanation.
It was fascinating to watchbecause, as you said, he was
absolutely slicing througheverybody ahead of him except
Max.
There were times he was rightthere with Max on pace, a lap or
two that he was faster than Maxon pace.
But of course Max is readingthe New York Times and doing a

(01:07:10):
crossword.
Max doesn't do crosswords.
He's planning out his next.
He's planning his GT3 team fornext year.
I'm sorry, I should haveclarified that he's not pushing
by any stretch of theimagination.
So it's not like the Mercedesis suddenly on par with that red
bull of the red bulls, but hewas absolutely taking wax out of

(01:07:34):
everybody else ahead of him Oneto two seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Both McLarens must have been told to push, because
we have a radio message fromNorris just basically telling
his engineer to fuck off,without quite using that term,
and Piazzari getting a black andwhite from track limits, all
within whoa, all on the same laplike lap 50.
And we don't obviously know howold that radio message is.
Both McLarens are being told togo faster and are either saying

(01:07:58):
I can't go any faster or tryingto go faster and get track
limits.
They must know Hamilton's likejust fucking chasing down their
back.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Yeah, but again, I think what we just bypassed in
all of this, which is, yes, theMercedes became a beast that
both Lewis and George had verystrong pace in that final stint.
Having said that, they both hadreally good pace, george is

(01:08:26):
making up a lot of ground aswell.
Lewis is six to seven tenthsfaster than George, though in
this entire final stint, as fastas George was in as much ground
as he was making up, lewis isconsistently six to seven tenths
a second faster on all of theselaps in this final stint.
Mother, fucking Mercedes andtheir shit strategy cost Lewis

(01:08:51):
the podium, in my opinion,because in the second stint they
left him out.
There was like this wholemoment of oh whoa.
You know, the others have allcome in and Lewis's only hope is
to go long.
Well, they let him flounderfour laps in a row where he was
giving up two seconds a lap tothe group ahead of him.

(01:09:13):
Four fucking laps in a rowwhere those tires were dead and
he was losing epic amounts oftime.
He ends up closing.
He gets past Piastri.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
He passes Piastri on the 57th lap, on the 58th lap,
so he's not even a full secondhaving lap Piastri.
He's 1.6 seconds ahead ofPiastri in less than a lap.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Yeah, and he closes in on Perez.
Now you know, there, I think,is a legitimate debate about if
there'd been two or three morelaps, would he have been able to
overtake the Red Bull and getonto the podium?
I know that's easier said thandone, but I will say Perez's
pace was was every bit as bad asNorris is compared to Lewis.

(01:10:05):
I genuinely believe if therehad been a couple more laps,
lewis would have gotten him.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
I agree 100%, and I think Norris was scared of what
was going on behind him as well,because when he's coming up to
some of the cars that aregetting the blue flags and
they're not getting over fastenough for his liking, he comes
on the radio and says they'renot even racing for anything.
Can you imagine if Lewis?

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
right Dick bag, dick bag massive tool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Can you imagine if Lewis had said that at some
point during the race?
Ever, ever In his entire career,if he had ever said that,
frankly, when Toto said it aboutMazepin costing them the win,
he got fucking lambasted in themedia as well.
Right, and you know he wasright.

(01:10:58):
Like Mazepin, not pulling overwas fucking huge.
But Norris no one said anythingabout Norris.
They're not even racing foranything.
They're all fucking F1 drivers.
They're all racing forsomething.
They're all like.
You have to have a specificmentality to be that level of a
lead athlete.
You're not going to pull overand fucking wank you off as you

(01:11:19):
go by and they have their ownjob to do right now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
What really puts him in the massive doink toolbox of
you know I am a hyper privilegedbitch came up after the race.
So okay, spoiler alert, boysand girls, if you didn't know
who ends up on the podium, tryto be shocked and amazed when we
tell you that Max Verstappenwon the race.
Oh wait, so Red Bull Racingjust broke the record for the

(01:11:46):
most number of consecutive wins.
Like who gives a shit?
Nobody does anymore, nobodycares, unless you're the most
goddamn pathetic basementdwelling Max Verstappen Dutch
fan.
You're bored out of your mindalready.
But yes, max Verstappen won therace.
I'm so surprised.
And number two was Lando Norrisand number three, by a fraction

(01:12:09):
was Czecho Paris.
So post race you have Lando,who at this point has had
basically two, three weeks,certainly the last two races,
including qualifying the daybefore, with Lewis Hamilton
being wildly complimentary,going out of his way to say

(01:12:34):
positive, complimentary thingsabout Lando Norris.
Even Toolbag here makes a pointof saying that.
Well, lewis was complainingabout how bad that car is, and
the car isn't even that bad.
And also, lewis has never hadto drive a bad car ever in his

(01:12:57):
entire career and he doesn'tknow what it's like to have to
be driving around in 19th or20th, like I had to do at the
beginning of the season.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
He's done everything else in F1, but that's something
he's never had to do Let metell you about a guy called
Lewis Hamilton, who drove for ateam called McLaren, who was
doing fucking stellar.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
I don't care.
I think the fact that that shitcomes out of his
hyperprivileged Uber rich whiteboy mouth at a time and I say
this, boys and girls, becauseyou can't see me, I'm like the
pasties old white woman thatever lived right, so you know,
lest you be confused about mymotivations in saying this the

(01:13:41):
idea that he at one point isbitching about the guys not
getting out of his way becausethey're not racing for anything
and at the same time, the littleshit is over here talking about
the fact that Lewis has alittle bit of a drive, a lesser
car.
You can't have it both ways,little bitch.

(01:14:02):
Make up your mind, it's one ofthe fucking others.
You're disrespecting the peoplewho are driving the shittier
cars than you are, because youhappen to have the one that's
jacked up this week or not.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
But you can't have it both ways Well and I think it
just like continues going onright.
Like we usually don't talkabout podium shit when it's
podium, like I couldn't think ofa podium, I just like more than
this one Same sister.
One of the interesting thingsabout this podium is Lando broke
Norris's I'm sorry, lando brokeMax's trophy.

(01:14:34):
I wasn't an intentional thing,like I'm not saying it was by
any stretch of the imagination,but he broke, you know, a
$40,000 trophy and afterwards Ican't tell if he was joking or
if he was doing his usual thingwhere it's absolutely not my
fault, where he's like well, youknow, if you had put it in a
more secure spot it wouldn'thave fallen down so easily is

(01:14:57):
basically the gist of what hesaid and I'm like well, look,
look, where you slime yourchampagne bottle down, kid Like
well, I think he was being flipit in that moment.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
As much as I think he's the douchebag and I do, I
think he was being flip it withthat remark I do think he
absolutely showed at zero noneless than goose egg, null, nil
understanding of the fact thatsomeone spent six months hand
crafting it.

(01:15:26):
It's not that it's 40,000 euros, is that it was a six month
handcrafted process to form andhand paint the trophy and rather
than going oh shit, like anynormal human would be doing
going I am so sorry, I'membarrassed In which case it

(01:15:48):
would have blown over he doubleddown on being a douchebag and
acted yeah, flippant andassholery.
And that, combined with theLewis comment, was like you
really are not an awesomeversion of human right now.
Like, some of this is a lack ofawareness.

(01:16:11):
Some of this is lack of socialmedia training, but he has been
a fucking dick about Lewisenough times now that, like he
gets nothing from me and I don'tthink it's lack of social media
.
If Lewis Hamilton ever made acomment akin to what he made
about Lewis about any driver,but most certainly the most
logical analogy is Lewis comingin and talking shit about

(01:16:35):
Schumacher he would have beenroasted alive.
If he uttered something todayon par with what that little
shit did, he would still beroasted.
Today.
Lewis can say the mostinnocuous thing imaginable and
get lit up on social media forit.
And that little white boy withevery dollar that his rich daddy

(01:16:56):
has poured into his life and hegets away with it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
I just want to put my head into a wall sometimes for
the sport it is so gross and togo back to what you're saying
about lack of media, I don'tthink he has lack of media
training.
I think, of all of them on thegrid, he is the best with social
media.
I think he knows exactly whathe needs to stay and what he
needs to do to be what he is andwho he wants to be.

(01:17:23):
Did he drop your drink?
What's going on over there?

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
I might have accidentally nudged it with my
elbow, but I think it's okay.
It's a party foul, but it's notyou know, did it break?

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
Is it a $40,000 hand painted thing that's now broken
on your?

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
floor.
I did not break a $40,000 handpainted podium.
Yeah, no, I didn't.
It's all good, we're totallyfine boys and girls.
Yeah, no, I.
Just the double standards.
They burn and they are mighty.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
There's shit that Lando talks, and definitely
about Lewis more than anybodyelse but he definitely like he's
done it for had snotty commentsfor both Stroll and Latifi
about their dads paying richmoney to do all sorts of stuff
and I was like check yourfucking privilege.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
How does lightning not strike your ass dead where
you're at?
Like he's a little rich boy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
He always tries to come off that he's not right,
and both I mean I might be moreprops to my countrymen than
others, but both of those, bothLatifi and Stroll, have always.
Yes, our fathers are incrediblywealthy.
Yes, our fathers have helped uswith money and connections, but
also we've done a lot of hardwork, and here's the hard work

(01:18:45):
we've done.
Lando's whole thing has alwaysbeen I've never had any help at
all.
I have struggled more than most.
Fuck right off.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Fuck off.
Yeah, and maybe there's a partof his story I just don't
understand or I'm not aware of,and if I have missed that, fair
props.
But and I don't want todiscount again I think Max
Verstappen is a shit version ofa human.
I think he's uncharismatic.
I couldn't be less interested,let alone enthusiastic, about

(01:19:21):
him being the person that F1appointed to be the next great
white hope and yada, yada.
Like you know the rich boys,the legacies are naturally less
interesting to me.
For my own reasons, I don'tthink any of that or my sort of

(01:19:47):
cynicism should be interpretedas me.
I don't want it to beinterpreted as me trying to take
away from their talent, becauseI do think Max Verstappen is a
very talented driver.
I do think Lando Norris is avery talented driver.
They're just shit humans.
Well, that's the thing, right,like it's the relative

(01:20:09):
perspective of what interests meas an end user for the sport.
Where do I invest my energy andpassion?
It will never be.
It will never be.
No, somebody like that.
If I don't like you as a humanbeing, I am never going to put
my passion behind you At thisage.
It's never been true and itnever will be.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Was Nick Latifi a great driver?
Absolutely not.
Did he seem to be a reallygenuinely good human, and was he
well liked on track?
Yeah, he really did Like.
Yeah.
And here's the thing we all doand say stupid things when we're
younger.
God knows I have God knows Shit.
I'm still saying stupid things.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
I've said six stupid things tonight.
The fair and the brave fair cop.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Exactly.
But you look at SebastianVettel and you look at Louis
when he's younger too right.
Yep, fair play, he was all thatand a bag of chips.
I don't know.
I don't see Max Ristappenchanging into a better adult.
He doesn't have any passion inhim that I can see at all,
except, I guess, maybe for hisvirtual racing.
But it seems like he's a giantdick in his virtual racing as

(01:21:18):
well from the little snippetsthat I see in social media.
But again, that could be like amicrocosm of specific things
about Max being a dick.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
I don't know.
I have zero knowledge about hispersona in racing.
My absolutely uninformedreflected observations are that
he is very much somebody whoenjoys that like that sim racing
environment and I think that'spart of why he's so good, is

(01:21:46):
like that's what he does.
He just lives in that world alot of the time when he's not
actually racing and thatcertainly, I think, strengthens
his skillset on track.
But I don't think he has agrand passion in the same way
that a lot of the drivers have.
Now, maybe that's armchairpsychologist of me.

(01:22:06):
I do have a degree, so I'm notgoing to feel too bad about
diagnosing whether or notsomebody strikes me as X versus
Y in that regard.
I don't see it in him.
There's not been a single thing.
Like he'll smile.
He will show some enthusiasm,but the kind of like absolute.
This is it.
This is what I've just put myentire heart and soul and every

(01:22:28):
bit of my passion into.
Everybody, including Lando, ismore enthusiastic about it.
I think that's part of why it'shard to reconcile an ending
narrative of the F1 punditry whoare just never going to shut up
about.
We're witnessing the greatestin history, blah, blah, blah.

(01:22:52):
When it doesn't marry toanything, when you're watching
it, there's nothing that makesyou go, oh wow, this is kind of
cool to watch.
This is somebody who isgenuinely passionate about what
they're doing.
This is somebody who'sabsolutely fighting every minute

(01:23:13):
of every day for success.
That doesn't exist in whatwe're watching currently and
we're not going to see it, and Ithink we all understand at this
point.
We're not going to see it nextyear and we're not going to see
it the year after, as much as Iwant to pretend something is
going to reset in 2024, it isn't, and I don't think it's going

(01:23:35):
to reset until we have anotherregulation change.
I want to be wrong.
No.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
I think, Bill, I think that may or may not reset
will be alphatorily if they'reallowed to take this current Red
Bull VRB 19 and race it yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
And I think that would be a wild and crazy
mistake Now this week, whilewe're just running the longest
podcast in the history of ever.
We talked a little bit in thenext podcast that we did first,
which is Spa, about this rumor.
I think we mentioned what Jenjust talked about, which is
there's been repeated rumors inthe last several days that Hugo

(01:24:13):
Boss Red Bull Racing will beallowed to run the RB 19.
I still call Partyfell.
I don't see it, but they could.
That would be wildlydetrimental to the sport.
The last two days, the rumor onthe street is F1 is talking
about banning DRS and QALY.
Why, why, why, like you canhave a genuine, meaningful

(01:24:41):
debate about whether DRS shouldstill exist and unfortunately,
the short answer, in my opinion,is yes, the car still can't
overtake right now.
We don't.
They're harder.
It's harder for cars in 2023 toovertake than it was in 2022.
And Ground Effect made itbetter but didn't solve the

(01:25:01):
problem.
Who gives a shit?
Whether you, I mean, I don'tdisagree.
There's no real meaningfulreason to allow DRS and QALY, ok
, but if you're doing it andeverybody to a person that I've
heard talking about it so farclaims that it's a mechanism to
hold back Red Bull.

(01:25:22):
Ok, did we all just have abrain tumor for breakfast?
Did IQs just drop suddenlywhile I was away?
To quote one of my favoritecharacters In what version of
reality does it matter if Max orStappen starts sixth on the
grid because he didn't get wholedue to not having DRS, when you
just spent all of the last twoweeks talking about how Max or

(01:25:45):
Stappen has now won from first,second, third, fifth, seventh,
the ninth, 12th, 11th and 14th,and he only needs sixth, ninth
and 15th to sweep the board ofwinning from every position on
the.
It doesn't fucking matter ifyou take the DRS out in QALY.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
Red Bull still didn't fucking win every race, unless
you take the DRS just from RedBull in QALY, it's not going to
fucking matter If their Delta isso much higher than everybody
else's, what the fuck does itmatter, unless you're just.
And it's not going to unlessagain, unless we've missed
something in all the thoughtbubbles that have come out that
they're only taking Red Bull'sDRS.

(01:26:20):
It's not disproportionatelyaffecting Red Bull.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
No same.
I would never support that.
Nobody rational would supporthandicapping a single team and
it won't accomplish anything todo it to all the teams.
It's like, really, we've hitsilly season.
But I'm less convinced.
It's about drivers.
It's just.
I have to constantly remindmyself that you have a lot of
board journalists trying to findrelevancy in these three weeks

(01:26:46):
and this kind of AMUS seems tobe the source of a lot of rumors
as far as I can tell.
But this one is just what, why?
What Are you even?
Huh, and I don't doubt it.
They pulled random shit out oftheir ass and on stop for two
plus years now.

(01:27:06):
But again, who cares where RedBull starts?
They're still going to win.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter where.
Well, to be fair, who careswhere Max starts?
He's still going to win,because Checo, on any given days
, could be fantastic or he couldshit the bed Like no middle
ground with him.
Yeah, no comment.
Kind of like when Albon wasdriving for them.
He could be really good on somedays or he could be awful on

(01:27:32):
others.
He just had way more awful daysthan good days, true?

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
enough, so we had a really yuck podium.
We had a pretty interestingweekend.
I think there was some good,some bad, but I will say I felt
like it was one of the moreinteresting race weekends.
I know we weren't experiencingit in tandem at the time, but

(01:27:56):
was there anything else youwanted to cover about Hungary?

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
No, I think we have hit the mark for a longest
podcast effort.
I think we've covered prettymuch everything.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
It was a good weekend .
I mean a good race.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
It was a good race.
It was a good weekend.
I was sad I didn't get to watchit live.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
So I'm not convinced we're going to be able to do
justice to our experience atSilverstone.
But next episode we will begoing back and forward
simultaneously to tell you allabout our adventure in getting
to go to our very firstin-person British Grand Prix.
We're both looking forward totalking to you about our

(01:28:35):
experiences there and we willsee you soon.
Take care, be well.

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The Breakfast Club

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode #11: 2023 Hungarian GP

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

Episode #11: 2023 Hungarian GP

Stuff You Should Know